Tivo S3 handling of multiple lineups

[moyekj]

So I've been thinking more about how I plan on using the Tivo S3. My cable company has digital simulcast channels which means they have SD digital versions of all the analog channels. These SD digital channels look much better than analog encoded channels (recorded via a DVR) so obviously I would rather record the digital versions than go through any encoding of analog channels whenever possible.

My plan right now is to have 1 CableCard (single stream most likely as that's all the cable company will provide) and 1 OTA feed. With that configuration there will be both analog and digital versions of channels available for the S3 to record. For example, channel 7 can have an analog version and via CableCard be mapped to it's digital simulcast version. Obviously I'd like Tivo to record the digital version but I don't see how one can force it to do so.

What can further complicate matters is unencrypted QAM channels will also be available to record (since only 1 CableCard) which won't map to any guide lineup channels, so some sort of manual channel assignment would be necessary. Finally, the OTA lineup is yet another source which needs a different lineup that can also have a channel 7 for example.

Seems like an awful lot of things for the S3 to have to keep track of for the ideal treatment of all these different versions of channels and I doubt the S3 will have provisions to deal with all these scenarios - the software would have to be very complex to deal with all of that.

Will certainly be interesting to see how the S3 deals with all of this. I think I won't be jumping on it as soon as it's released as originally planned. Best to wait for initial bug fixes and feedback from others on some of these issues before jumping in for a hefty fee.

[stevel]

TiVo has already dealt with this problem in various ways. The S3 isn't going to complicate things much more.

Specifically, the HR10-250 can deal with both DirecTV and OTA digital channel lineups and the guide integrates the two. It can also record two things at once from four possibile sources (two DirecTV, two OTA). So for over two years now TiVo has had a worked example of such a thing (and it works well.)

Note that for the S3, there will be no "analog version of channel 7" as it does not include an NTSC tuner. It will know what the cable mappings are and you will select the appropriate cable channel much as you do now with an S2 when connected to a cable box. If there is unencrypted QAM on the cable, it can deal with it the same way the HR10-250 does with ATSC, with a separate channel map with channels of the form 7-1, etc.

[SullyND]

Note that for the S3, there will be no "analog version of channel 7" as it does not include an NTSC tuner.

Are you SURE about that? I thought the S3 did have two NTSC Tuners (Which it is allowed to have as it also has ATSC tuners unlike the DT)

From Megazone's CES Coverage of the S3
The unit has two CableCARD slots on the back and it will support Multi-Stream (CableCARD 2.0) or Single-Stream (CableCARD 1.0) cards. If you have multi-stream then you only need one card, but as long as only single stream cards are available you can use two of them. Yes, the unit is dual-tuner - actually, like the HD DirecTiVo it can use any two of the tuners it has, and it has six. 2 cable tuners, 2 ATSC tuners, and 2 NTSC tuners. Yes, it supports digital and analog cable, digital ATSC OTA, and analog NTSC OTA.

[Larry in TN]

Note that for the S3, there will be no "analog version of channel 7" as it does not include an NTSC tuner.

It certainly did when they showed it at CES in January. Have they changed the spec?

[stevel]

Sorry, my error.

[btl-a4]

Does the S3 have HDMI in? I was hoping to use one cablecard and use the CabelCos HD STB for the second tuner so I could get OnDemand. The STB has HDMI out so I was hoping to use that for a cleaner feed.

[SullyND]

Does the S3 have HDMI in?

Nope.

[stevel]

The S3 has no inputs except for cable and antenna. S3 is on the bottom.

http://static.flickr.com/78/175943413_fe0d4f423b_o.jpg

[funtoupgrade]

Does the S3 have HDMI in? I was hoping to use one cablecard and use the CabelCos HD STB for the second tuner so I could get OnDemand. The STB has HDMI out so I was hoping to use that for a cleaner feed.

The picture above of an S3 shows an HDMI port of some sort.

[phox_mulder]

The picture above of an S3 shows an HDMI port of some sort.

Output, no HDMI input.


phox

[moyekj]

S3 does have dual NTSC tuner and mpeg2 encoder so "analog" channels will be visible and available in addition to the digital simulcast duplicated lineup (which DirectTivo never had to contend with). Plus the other big difference over DirectTivo is unencrypted QAM where every headend will be different in terms of channel mappings (hence the need to customize as the Sony DVR allows). These are major complications compared to DirectTivo so I think my original concerns still stand.

[jfh3]

Plus the other big difference over DirectTivo is unencrypted QAM where every headend will be different in terms of channel mappings (hence the need to customize as the Sony DVR allows).

This is a big one, since these channel mappings seem to change quite frequently, at least on my system.

Tivo will indeed need a mapping mechanism like the Sony boxes (though I sure hope it's no where near as tedious) or Tivo will have a whole bunch more custom lineups to maintain.

[Dan203]

This is a big one, since these channel mappings seem to change quite frequently, at least on my system.

Tivo will indeed need a mapping mechanism like the Sony boxes (though I sure hope it's no where near as tedious) or Tivo will have a whole bunch more custom lineups to maintain.

Don't the CableCARDs provide a map of all the channels? If so then as long as you have at least one CableCARD installed the QAM channels should be mapped autmatically.

Dan

[moyekj]

Don't the CableCARDs provide a map of all the channels? If so then as long as you have at least one CableCARD installed the QAM channels should be mapped autmatically.

Dan CableCard definately does map the channels just like a set top box so that is a good point and a definite possibility if you have 1 CableCard. Still would need a provision for the case when there are no CableCards in the system though even if that's the case.

[jfh3]

Don't the CableCARDs provide a map of all the channels? If so then as long as you have at least one CableCARD installed the QAM channels should be mapped autmatically.

Yes, no mapping is required if you have CableCard(s).

It's when you don't that you need the ability to map. I expect that at least one of my Series 3's will not have a CableCard installed and be used primarily for network/HD recording, which sadly, I still have to get over cable.

[moyekj]

Well I'm glad I can get most of the main network HD channels OTA so even if my cable company employs switched digital and other things to obsolete S3 CableCard I still have the option of using S3 for OTA HD recordings which comprise about 80% of what I watch anyway. May have to keep the cable co. DVR for ESPNHD and TNTHD though.