NY Times, "The CableCard is essentially dead"

[Walter Lambert]

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/03/technology/03cable.html

[dswallow]

And anybody spending multi-thousands of dollars on a television display probably has some interest in a DVR, too. In which case any tuner -- CableCard or otherwise -- built in is wasted.

[vman41]

Aside from the 1-way thing, weren't there firmware problems (interoperability, stability) in the initial cablecard deployments?

[rainwater]

Cable companies have tried to make CC adoption as hard as possible. It's pretty clear its in their best interests. Until you have a lot of CE devices that can make use of these cards in a way that is more appealing than a STB, I think the adoption rate is going to continue to be low.

[slimoli]

I had a CC installed 2 weeks ago and it's already showing a lot of glitches. Picture freezes from time to time and sound is interrupted for a fraction of a second. It will be replaced but I was told not to expect it will work flawlessly. My TV has a built-in recorder but most recordings show a lot of artifacts. Same program is recorded on the regular DVR without problems.

This can be really bad for the S3 and maybe one of the reasons why it's been delayed.

[ellinj]

I have had a cable card installed in my Sony DVR for almost 8 monthes. So far no problems that are directly related to the cable card. Most of the issues I have had are related to the Craptastic guide software included with the box. Otherwise no problems receiving and decoding encrypted channels.

[nhaigh]

I'm not surprised there is not a huge take up. Cablecard is really only in the high end equipment and in a TV doesn't really give advantage over an STB especially as you will need one for PPV etc. Cablecard will get more popular as DVR's come out (TiVo) and other CE devises such as PC cards and DVD recorders start adopting them over analogue tuners.

[ZeoTiVo]

Cable card 2.0 is a sticky problem and would not work with any of the TV sets mentioned in the article anyway

[nrc]

The real determining factor in the success of cable card will be whether the FCC sticks to its guns and forces the cable companies to use it for their own cable boxes. I think they know they've gotten all the extensions they're going to get and now they're just looking for ways to get around it. They recently asked for a waiver for some new low-cost cable boxes based on the expense of the cable card. Of course the cable card is only expensive because they've made sure there's not enough volume to drive costs down.

[cbordman]

Cable companies have tried to make CC adoption as hard as possible. It's pretty clear its in their best interests. Until you have a lot of CE devices that can make use of these cards in a way that is more appealing than a STB, I think the adoption rate is going to continue to be low.

$45 "install" fees don't help either.

You should be able to pickup a free cablecard at Best Buy, where they have all the "Time Warner is Great!" propoganda, then go home, call the cable company and have them authorize the card.

[jsmeeker]

And anybody spending multi-thousands of dollars on a television display probably has some interest in a DVR, too. In which case any tuner -- CableCard or otherwise -- built in is wasted.


Doesn't the DVR need a tuner? A CableCard there isn't wasted.

Also, I have a DVR now, and I still use the tuner in the TV.

[Dan203]

The Series 3 might just be device to breath some life back into CableCARD. Unlike all those HDTVs with a CableCARD slots, the S3 is actually designed as a CableCARD device, and not just a device with a CableCARD slot added as an after thought. This means that most S3 units sold will have at leat one CableCARD installed into them, and the majority will probably have two installed. That means that if just 2% of current TiVo subscribers (~85,000) upgraded to a S3, and install two CableCARDs, the current CC deployment would more then double.

Dan

[ellinj]

The Series 3 might just be device to breath some life back into CableCARD. Unlike all those HDTVs with a CableCARD slots, the S3 is actually designed as a CableCARD device, and not just a device with a CableCARD slot added as an after thought. This means that most S3 units sold will have at leat one CableCARD installed into them, and the majority will probably have two installed. That means that if just 2% of current TiVo subscribers (~85,000) upgraded to a S3, and install two CableCARDs, the current CC deployment would more then double.

Dan


I just hope that Tivo is talking to the cable companies to make sure that they are prepared for the S3 release. I can see shortages of cable cards coming as well as general cluelessness about how to deal with customers who want two cards for one device.

[moyekj]

I just hope that Tivo is talking to the cable companies to make sure that they are prepared for the S3 release. I can see shortages of cable cards coming as well as general cluelessness about how to deal with customers who want two cards for one device. I don't see that happening. As far as most cable companies are concerned Tivo is a competitor to their own DVR & non-DVR boxes. Cable companies already strongly discourage CableCards - constantly remind you of the 2-way features you miss out on and provide pretty bad tech support when CC issues arise (though in my experience it's bad support no matter what issues you have). Hopefully the S3 will actually have different serial #s for each CableCard slot so as far as the system is concerned it will look like 2 different devices to the headend and therefore shouldn't cause any problems.

[Dan203]

I believe that the CableCARD spec requires each slot to have it's own unique "Host ID", so that shouldn't be a concern.

Also while the cable companies may try to discourage the use of CableCARDs by trying to "up sell" you into one of their DVRs I can't seem them actually refusing to give you two cards. And if for some reason they do then I will simply call back and tell them that I have two TVs and want a CableCARD installed in each one. Then pull the switcheroo when the installer shows up.

Dan

[mattack]

And anybody spending multi-thousands of dollars on a television display probably has some interest in a DVR, too. In which case any tuner -- CableCard or otherwise -- built in is wasted.

First of all I think that's not necessarily a valid conclusion that there's any correlation between spending a lot on a TV and wanting a DVR.

Also, I *think* (my opinion of course) that people would just buy a monitor if they don't want to use the built in tuner.* I would suspect that people would want to split the signal and use the TV's built in tuner just like they can/do with PVRs and VCRs today.* (I actually don't have the signal going straight into my TV since I have to redo some of my cables, but I usually use my TV tuner fairly often even though I watch most of my stuff off of my recorders.. *

[mattack]

I had a CC installed 2 weeks ago and it's already showing a lot of glitches. Picture freezes from time to time and sound is interrupted for a fraction of a second. It will be replaced but I was told not to expect it will work flawlessly. My TV has a built-in recorder but most recordings show a lot of artifacts. Same program is recorded on the regular DVR without problems.

Are the programs recorded on the "regular DVR" digitla channels or analog channels?

The problems you're seeing sound to me classic symptoms of too low of a signal strength (perhaps through splitters?) for digital channels, and not related to cablecard at all.

[jfh3]

I just hope that Tivo is talking to the cable companies to make sure that they are prepared for the S3 release. I can see shortages of cable cards coming as well as general cluelessness about how to deal with customers who want two cards for one device.

The other thing that we'll see is problems with the cards themselves. Apparently, not all cablecards (presumably the firmware) are created equal.

It'll be interesting to see how many "Series 3 doesn't work with cablecard" threads we'll see that turn out to be a CableCard, rather than a Series 3 problem.

I do hope that when the time comes, TivoJerry and others will post as much info as they have here so at least TCF will be informed enough to help the cable CSRs through it.

[dswallow]

Also, I *think* (my opinion of course) that people would just buy a monitor if they don't want to use the built in tuner.* I would suspect that people would want to split the signal and use the TV's built in tuner just like they can/do with PVRs and VCRs today.* (I actually don't have the signal going straight into my TV since I have to redo some of my cables, but I usually use my TV tuner fairly often even though I watch most of my stuff off of my recorders.. *
The market changed a bit when Plasma and LCD displays became commonplace, but there was many a time I tried to find a monitor without a tuner and the only available options were significantly higher in price than a similar unit with a tuner. The brand that comes to mind that I remember being one of the few offering non-tuner monitors was Proton. So people would buy displays with tuners because they were less expensive and more commonplace than displays without tuners even if they had no use for the tuner.

[Raj]

And anybody spending multi-thousands of dollars on a television display probably has some interest in a DVR, too. In which case any tuner -- CableCard or otherwise -- built in is wasted.

Not really wasted. In fact my interest in OTA television has been revived thanks to digital TV. So have many others.

[dswallow]

Not really wasted. In fact my interest in OTA television has been revived thanks to digital TV. So have many others.
And most would probably still prefer having a DVR over watching it live. Now if the choice were HD live vs. SD DVR it's more complex.

[Billy66]

And most would probably still prefer having a DVR over watching it live. Now if the choice were HD live vs. SD DVR it's more complex.

Not complex for me. HD Live!

[cbordman]

The Series 3 might just be device to breath some life back into CableCARD. Unlike all those HDTVs with a CableCARD slots, the S3 is actually designed as a CableCARD device, and not just a device with a CableCARD slot added as an after thought. This means that most S3 units sold will have at leat one CableCARD installed into them, and the majority will probably have two installed. That means that if just 2% of current TiVo subscribers (~85,000) upgraded to a S3, and install two CableCARDs, the current CC deployment would more then double.

Dan

If i get a series 3, I probably will not add the cablecard. Without the card, i could still record the HD network channels. Adding the card would only let me record discovery and TNT HD.

[pkscout]

If i get a series 3, I probably will not add the cablecard. Without the card, i could still record the HD network channels. Adding the card would only let me record discovery and TNT HD.

Don't forget that if your cable system is doing digital simulcast, the cablecard will also give you the digital versions of all the analog channels in the "standard" tier. Plus a cablecard would give you access to other channels in the digital only tiers and other premium offerings (HBO, Showtime, etc). Cablecard isn't just about HD, it's about all the encrypted digital content too.

[ellinj]

Don't forget that if your cable system is doing digital simulcast, the cablecard will also give you the digital versions of all the analog channels in the "standard" tier. Plus a cablecard would give you access to other channels in the digital only tiers and other premium offerings (HBO, Showtime, etc). Cablecard isn't just about HD, it's about all the encrypted digital content too.


You still should be able to receive the digital simulcast versions without the card. The problem which it remains to be seen how tivo will solve is the QAM channel mappings.

[atmuscarella]

Without the ability to control an STB TiVo has somewhat bet the farm on cable card with the Series 3, as I would guess the majority of people who will buy a Series 3 will want to be able to record encrypted cable channels.

I guess from TiVo's point of view cable card has to work for them or as HD becomes main stream they wouldn't have a product that anyone would want.

Thanks,

atmuscarella

[rickertk]

You still should be able to receive the digital simulcast versions without the card. The problem which it remains to be seen how tivo will solve is the QAM channel mappings.

If you only record broadcast networks, probably. If you watch the non-premium cable channels, not so much. I have a HDTV with a QAM tuner (but no card). We have digital simulcasts in the clear for all of the broadcast SD channels that are carried in analog, and a few others (shopping networks, some public service channels, Comcast's CN8). Oh, also all the music choice channels. Almost any other cable channel that is carried in the analog half is either not carried or encrypted (I can't really tell the difference, but going through the digital cable box, I suspect most of them are carried but encrypted). This means things like FX, USA, SciFi, etc. This is only specific to my cable system (Comcast, Plymouth Meeting, PA), but it could well be true for many others.

Keith

[Bierboy]

If i get a series 3, I probably will not add the cablecard. Without the card, i could still record the HD network channels. Adding the card would only let me record discovery and TNT HD.That's exactly what I plan to do. 90% of HD I'm interested in (and will continue to be) is network.

[nhaigh]

Not complex for me. HD Live!

For me its the other way round. I'm going to upgrade to HD when the S3 arrives but the DVR is the most important component of the TV experience with HD comming in behind it. I simply cannot bear to watch live TV and I'm never around when the stuff I want to watch is on. I'd have to be at home in prime time!!!!!

[Dan203]

Lucky for me I never had to make a choice. The same week I ordered my HDTV Charter started offering HD-DVRs. They're not as good as a TiVo, but they work well enough to record some of the more important stuff in HD (i.e. CSI, Lost, etc..) while allowing my TiVos to pick up the slack for everything else.

Dan

[kb7oeb]

I think the best app for cable card is smaller secondary tv sets but if it really costs $40 bucks to add I can't see it getting there anytime soon. On second thought though this is from the same people who said ATSC tuners add $200 per set.

[classicsat]

Without the ability to control an STB TiVo has somewhat bet the farm on cable card with the Series 3

The have the S2DT for the situation of an STB. Yes it is SD, but there is no HD DVRs that work with outbard STBs to record HD.

[pkscout]

I think the best app for cable card is smaller secondary tv sets but if it really costs $40 bucks to add I can't see it getting there anytime soon. On second thought though this is from the same people who said ATSC tuners add $200 per set.

The $40 to add is the price the cable cartel has set for a "truck roll" to install the card. Apparently the average consumer cannot call a phone number, read some numbers off the card, and stick it in a slot. Because we are all so astounding stupid the cable cartel is "forced" to send a technician out to install the card. So by making the barrier to entry so high (in the form of an artificially high install fee), the cable cartel has been able to "kill" cablecard adoption.

[lessd]

The $40 to add is the price the cable cartel has set for a "truck roll" to install the card. Apparently the average consumer cannot call a phone number, read some numbers off the card, and stick it in a slot. Because we are all so astounding stupid the cable cartel is "forced" to send a technician out to install the card. So by making the barrier to entry so high (in the form of an artificially high install fee), the cable cartel has been able to "kill" cablecard adoption.

It's not just the numbers on the CC, the CC has to be married to the TV or whatever its going into, so you also need a number from the TV as well. You can't have say two CC TVs and move the CC from one TV to the other as it will work only in the TV the cable guy set it up for. I am using a CC now in my 2nd HDTV for now (wanted to try it out). Comcast charged me a $15 truck roll + $3.12/month (including taxes). The CSR was nice as she gave me Two months free on something to make up for the $15. Without the guide or info of what now playing it does suck. There is a menu for the info of what currently on the channel your on, but its blank except for the channel ID as the Cable Co has no incentive to help CC users.

[HiDefGator]

I think what has killed the cable card is that people like my parents have never even heard of it. Not only have they not heard of it, they have never had a need for it. When they bought cable, the cable company came out and installed a box for them.

If no one is pushing cable cards how would it have ever been a success?

[classicsat]

It's not just the numbers on the CC, the CC has to be married to the TV or whatever its going into, so you also need a number from the TV as well.

My understanding is the tech would pull up a screen that has the card ID and the set ID. There is no reason a customer could not submit that info themselves.

That said, they do want to roll a truck now, to get the feel for things, AFAIK.

[classicsat]

If no one is pushing cable cards how would it have ever been a success?

It's not that cable isn't pushing cablecards, it is that CE manufacturers aren't (yet) saturating the market with CC receiving equipment.