One button push delete...

[mrjam2jab]

...not always.

The Glenn Beck tv show is on 3 times a day...and Tribune has no ep info..so a SP for it records all 3 eps no matter what your settings are. So i go into ToDo and delete the excess showings before they record....

Clear, confirm delete...clear, confirm delete....clear, confirm delete....just like the old days... ;)

[gonzotek]

Known issue in 7.3:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=304137
...
Menu navigation incorrect when deleting from To-Do list.
...

[mrjam2jab]

ah...i didnt read that post...as i dont have 7.3 yet.

[mchips]

I think Gonzo misunderstood what you were saying...

The one-button delete applies to the Now Playing List instead of the To Do List...

The Now Playing list used to be like the To Do List in that you had to confirm it, but since adding the Recently Deleted folder in 7.2, you can now delete a recording with a single press of the Clear button on the remote, no longer having to confirm... since the Recently Delete folder is there, if someone inadvertently or accidentally presses the clear button on a recording in the Now Playing List, it can easily be recovered... not so for the To Do List, and therefore the confirm is still needed there...

And then with 7.3, you have batch delete... with 7.2, you still have to wait until one recording is deleted before you can delete the next one... with 7.3, you can now press clear several times, and it will place "X's" by several recordings and then delete them in batch-like format... again, this all applies to the Now Playing List instead of the To Do List...

[gonzotek]

if someone inadvertently or accidentally presses the clear button on a recording in the Now Playing List, it can easily be recovered... not so for the To Do List, and therefore the confirm is still needed there...I did think he had 7.3 already, but other than that I think I understood. I rarely have cause to go to the ToDo list, so I didn't realize that it also wasn't in the prior version.

It was my understanding that if you remove something from the ToDo list, it goes into recording history with a 'Won't Record' message and from there a user can force it back to a 'to be recorded' status.

So, IMO, the one-button delete function should also be available in the todo list. Not to mention that even if the deleted item didn't go into the history it would be possible to re-request the recording from other areas of the UI.


/edit: I'm an idiot. :)
In 7.3 'Clear' doesn't have any effect on the items in the ToDo list. No one-button delete AND no confirmation prompt first. You have to go into the program details and select the delete menu item from there. This was the issue I thought I was referring to. Under 7.2 you could at least do as Scott described in the OP-- clear, confirm, clear, confirm, etc.

Sorry for the confusion.

[Rhindle]

Since the topic has come up again, I want to express that: I HATE THE ONE-BUTTON DELETE.

This makes the clear button very dangerous:
1) If the Tivo is being sluggish (my Humax, especially, often takes a second or five to respond to a button press), I end up pushing the button again because I think the command didn't take. Oops.
2) Double-button BS. Both of my Tivos (the Humax, especially) have a habit of thinking I pressed the button twice when I only pressed it once. Oops again.
3) It can easily be pressed by accident (couch cushion mishap, cat walking on remote, baby chewing on remote, etc.).

I've had to delve into the Recently Deleted folder far too many times to rescue an unintentionally deleted program. What if I didn't notice on time!?

I have no other computer program, device, or similar, that treats deletion so casually. I want the confirmation back! Please Please Please Please Please! At least make it an optional setting somewhere.

And for all of you who complained about the confirmation, and are now so happy without it, I have this question: What was so darn hard about hitting Clear-Select-Clear-Select-etc. for multiple deletion? Was it really *that* much trouble?

[mchips]

I did think he had 7.3 already, but other than that I think I understood......

So, IMO, the one-button delete function should also be available in the todo list. Not to mention that even if the deleted item didn't go into the history it would be possible to re-request the recording from other areas of the UI. Let me see if I can explain this better...

Prior to 7.2, the Now Playing List was similar to the To Do List in that it required the following steps to delete something: Press Clear
Confirm delete This is two-button delete, not one... that's what he was saying, is that it isn't one-button delete as advertised with the 7.2 software update when in the To Do List...

So, what I was trying to explain was that the one-button delete applies to the Now Playing List only. The To Do List still takes two-buttons (clear > confirm delete). The Confirm Delete was removed from the Now Playing List with 7.2 to make it one-button delete: Press Clear (that's it, no more confirm delete) Granted, the Clear button is not working like it should in the To Do List with 7.3 at the moment, but that's not what he was referring to... when it's brought back in a future update, it will still require Clear > Confirm delete, which is not one-button delete like we now get with the Now Playing List... The Now Playing List is one-button delete, while the To Do List is two-button delete, when the Clear button is working of course, and I'm sure it will be again soon... but even then, it will still be two-button delete...

[gonzotek]

Since the topic has come up again, I want to express that: I HATE THE ONE-BUTTON DELETE.

This makes the clear button very dangerous:
1) If the Tivo is being sluggish (my Humax, especially, often takes a second or five to respond to a button press), I end up pushing the button again because I think the command didn't take. Oops.
2) Double-button BS. Both of my Tivos (the Humax, especially) have a habit of thinking I pressed the button twice when I only pressed it once. Oops again.
3) It can easily be pressed by accident (couch cushion mishap, cat walking on remote, baby chewing on remote, etc.).

I've had to delve into the Recently Deleted folder far too many times to rescue an unintentionally deleted program. What if I didn't notice on time!?

I have no other computer program, device, or similar, that treats deletion so casually. I want the confirmation back! Please Please Please Please Please! At least make it an optional setting somewhere.

And for all of you who complained about the confirmation, and are now so happy without it, I have this question: What was so darn hard about hitting Clear-Select-Clear-Select-etc. for multiple deletion? Was it really *that* much trouble?I can't argue some of your reasoning, but the cat/baby/cushion scenarios aren't very likely. The NPL only stays up for a short period of time before it times out to Live TV. If it sat there all the time and you(a user) had a habit of leaving it up when turning off the tv, I could see the problem, but otherwise it'd have to be fairly rare.

[gonzotek]

Let me see if I can explain this better...

Prior to 7.2, the Now Playing List was similar to the To Do List in that it required the following steps to delete something: Press Clear
Confirm delete This is two-button delete, not one... that's what he was saying, is that it isn't one-button delete as advertised with the 7.2 software update when in the To Do List...

So, what I was trying to explain was that the one-button delete applies to the Now Playing List only. The To Do List still takes two-buttons (clear > confirm delete). The Confirm Delete was removed from the Now Playing List with 7.2 to make it one-button delete: Press Clear (that's it, no more confirm delete) Granted, the Clear button is not working like it should in the To Do List with 7.3 at the moment, but that's not what he was referring to... when it's brought back in a future update, it will still require Clear > Confirm delete, which is not one-button delete like we now get with the Now Playing List... The Now Playing List is one-button delete, while the To Do List is two-button delete, when the Clear button is working of course, and I'm sure it will be again soon... but even then, it will still be two-button delete...I got it :) (see my edit above).

Still, since the deleted todo item is recoverable in the same way a deleted recording is recoverable I don't see the reason why they couldn't make it the same(and thus maintain UI conformity).

[mchips]

I got it :) (see my edit above).

Still, since the deleted todo item is recoverable in the same way a deleted recording is recoverable I don't see the reason why they couldn't make it the same(and thus maintain UI conformity). I had started typing my response before your edit, which took me a little bit as I was trying to make myself as clear as I could... oops... but I see your edit now...

I wouldn't mind a one-button delete for the To Do List as well... I can take it either way, as I don't delete as much from my To Do List as I do the NPL, but I wouldn't object to a one-button delete there as well...

[ZeoTiVo]

Since the topic has come up again, I want to express that: I HATE THE ONE-BUTTON DELETE.

This makes the clear button very dangerous:
1) If the Tivo is being sluggish (my Humax, especially, often takes a second or five to respond to a button press), I end up pushing the button again because I think the command didn't take. Oops.
2) Double-button BS. Both of my Tivos (the Humax, especially) have a habit of thinking I pressed the button twice when I only pressed it once. Oops again.


the two above makes me think you either have a bad remote, bad batteries or
most likely a bad IR sighting on your TiVos that makes it look for the bouncing IR signal from off walls or whatever vs a direct fire.

Perhaps also you should be more deliberate on pushing the remote buttons to help with the above. sometimes gioing too quickly can get the IR signal crossed up as well.

[Bai Shen]

the two above makes me think you either have a bad remote, bad batteries or
most likely a bad IR sighting on your TiVos that makes it look for the bouncing IR signal from off walls or whatever vs a direct fire.

Perhaps also you should be more deliberate on pushing the remote buttons to help with the above. sometimes gioing too quickly can get the IR signal crossed up as well.

The double button issue is a documented bug. The remote sends the same code twice when you only pushed the button once.

[dirtypacman]

Why not just set up a manual repeating recording if your always getting duplicates??

[ZeoTiVo]

The double button issue is a documented bug. The remote sends the same code twice when you only pushed the button once.

yes, and it has for the most part been mitigated by the batch of remotes with the problem being slowly trashed and some coding to work out and ignore double send of signals. he may well have one of the bad remotes but it sounded like he had two different TiVos
and at the least making sure ghost IR does not bounce off and hit and pressing more deliberately to slow down the IR signals so the software patch can sort them out better might help.

[Bai Shen]

yes, and it has for the most part been mitigated by the batch of remotes with the problem being slowly trashed and some coding to work out and ignore double send of signals. he may well have one of the bad remotes but it sounded like he had two different TiVos
and at the least making sure ghost IR does not bounce off and hit and pressing more deliberately to slow down the IR signals so the software patch can sort them out better might help.

Actually, now that I think about it, it's not an issue with the remote. I use a universal remote and I've had this problem a few times.

[ZeoTiVo]

Actually, now that I think about it, it's not an issue with the remote. I use a universal remote and I've had this problem a few times.

yes, that was the other side of it. they had to tweak the code to keep from acting on the same IR command twice. I was lucky and only very rarely had this happen in regular use. some with an SD H400 and some with a 540 - both using their remotes. But it should rarely be happening now.

I have had it happen in non-regular use - such as had the TiVo turned to a side as i did some wiring behind it and then using the remote to verify things were still connected. Also I have two tivos on a shelf over top of the TV in the TV cabinet. If those TiVos are pushed too far back on the shelf then I get wierd remote control issues as well.

[Bai Shen]

yes, that was the other side of it. they had to tweak the code to keep from acting on the same IR command twice. I was lucky and only very rarely had this happen in regular use. some with an SD H400 and some with a 540 - both using their remotes. But it should rarely be happening now.

I have had it happen in non-regular use - such as had the TiVo turned to a side as i did some wiring behind it and then using the remote to verify things were still connected. Also I have two tivos on a shelf over top of the TV in the TV cabinet. If those TiVos are pushed too far back on the shelf then I get wierd remote control issues as well.

So you're admitting that it still happens, but calling BS to the posters issue of it happening?

[Rhindle]

the two above makes me think you either have a bad remote, bad batteries or
most likely a bad IR sighting on your TiVos that makes it look for the bouncing IR signal from off walls or whatever vs a direct fire.

Perhaps also you should be more deliberate on pushing the remote buttons to help with the above. sometimes gioing too quickly can get the IR signal crossed up as well.
You're dodging the issue of bad UI design. Something potentially undesirable that can be accidentally triggered should have a confirmation step. Hitting the select key to confirm is not a burden, in my opinion. (And if so many users are too lazy to press two buttons, why couldn't this be an option?)

Regarding your comment, I have a 24x series and a 59x series box. I have used both remotes with both boxes in both locations with similar results. I'm not going to fiddle around with pressing the buttons a certain way... it should just work, like all of my other IR controlled devices. Occasional double-presses and frequent sluggishness are just facts of life that I live with. But unconfirmed deletion gives me fits. I have to treat the remote like a loaded weapon.

[gonzotek]

You're dodging the issue of bad UI design. Something potentially undesirable that can be accidentally triggered should have a confirmation step. Hitting the select key to confirm is not a burden, in my opinion. (And if so many users are too lazy to press two buttons, why couldn't this be an option?)

Regarding your comment, I have a 24x series and a 59x series box. I have used both remotes with both boxes in both locations with similar results. I'm not going to fiddle around with pressing the buttons a certain way... it should just work, like all of my other IR controlled devices. Occasional double-presses and frequent sluggishness are just facts of life that I live with. But unconfirmed deletion gives me fits. I have to treat the remote like a loaded weapon.Until the remote sluggishness/double presses issues are worked out, you could avoid using the clear button for deletion, and instead use the delete menu item from the program details. Still won't prompt for confirmation, but it should at least avoid accidental double-deletions.

[mchips]

I have five TiVo's, and haven't accidentally deleted a show yet with the Clear button or double-button press issue...

So, either I'm just one lucky son-of-a-gun, or others are just unlucky, or possibly overstating or exaggerating just a bit, which people tend to do when they don't like something... ;)

I'm not saying it can't happen, but I doubt it happens that often, and like Gonzo said, if it is that much of an issue for someone, and I suppose I guess it could be, just stop using the Clear button, and instead start using Select > Delete Now, or Right-arrow > Delete Now... thereby creating your own confirm delete... just make it work for you...

Besides, Pressing Right on the keypad, since your thumb is already there as you're scrolling to the recording that you want to delete, or pressing Select, are both closer than going all of the way to the bottom of the remote to get to the Clear key...

[ZeoTiVo]

You're dodging the issue of bad UI design. Something potentially undesirable that can be accidentally triggered should have a confirmation step. Hitting the select key to confirm is not a burden, in my opinion. (And if so many users are too lazy to press two buttons, why couldn't this be an option?) not dodging the issue at all - just posting info that might help your situation. there are other things I wish were more configurable as well. I have made the suggestion direct to TiVo of an advanced toggle that would open up more menus to allow to set things to our liking. Yours is another good example of people having legitimate preference both ways on how it should be set. TiVo is trying very hard to keep the interface simple and streamlined. both for ease of use and reduction of support calls. Myidea is they can ship a simple interface as it is today, but for those willing to dig down to a deep menu we can toggle on advanced mode and get a menu to set these types of things. TiVo inc seems to avoid this though and go with a KISS interface in order to save support line calls/money.

Regarding your comment, I have a 24x series and a 59x series box. I have used both remotes with both boxes in both locations with similar results. I'm not going to fiddle around with pressing the buttons a certain way... it should just work, like all of my other IR controlled devices. Occasional double-presses and frequent sluggishness are just facts of life that I live with. But unconfirmed deletion gives me fits. I have to treat the remote like a loaded weapon.
of course it should just work - but you already said it did not. Did you post just to bitch about it or to read helpful thoughts on what is the reality of the situation ?

[ZeoTiVo]

So you're admitting that it still happens, but calling BS to the posters issue of it happening?
where did I call BS to the poster on it happening? I posted about some possible types of things involved in his TiVo not acting like it should.

[Rhindle]

not dodging the issue at all - just posting info that might help your situation. there are other things I wish were more configurable as well. I have made the suggestion direct to TiVo of an advanced toggle that would open up more menus to allow to set things to our liking. Yours is another good example of people having legitimate preference both ways on how it should be set. TiVo is trying very hard to keep the interface simple and streamlined. both for ease of use and reduction of support calls. Myidea is they can ship a simple interface as it is today, but for those willing to dig down to a deep menu we can toggle on advanced mode and get a menu to set these types of things. TiVo inc seems to avoid this though and go with a KISS interface in order to save support line calls/money.
Well, I'm glad you agree that users ought to have a choice in matters like this. Tivo might not agree, but I don't see how minor configuration preferences like this would unduly burden CS.

of course it should just work - but you already said it did not. Did you post just to bitch about it or to read helpful thoughts on what is the reality of the situation ?
What would you say is the "reality of the situation"? I suppose it is that the one-click delete is here to stay, I'm the only one who doesn't like it, and tough noogies.

A truly excellent product would not makes changes like this to the UI without allowing users the choice to keep things the way they were—especially when hardware and/or software glitches can compound the situation and result in very undesirable behavior (i.e., accidental deletion of shows other than through simple user error).

None of my other electronic gizmos treat file deletion with the same cavalier attitude the Tivo now does. Why most (all?) of you like it better this way bewilders me. :rolleyes:

[Rhindle]

I have five TiVo's, and haven't accidentally deleted a show yet with the Clear button or double-button press issue...

So, either I'm just one lucky son-of-a-gun, or others are just unlucky, or possibly overstating or exaggerating just a bit, which people tend to do when they don't like something... ;)
Realistically, it's probably happened to me only about ten times. But it's a PITA when it does happen, and one of these days I won't notice. Probably three of those times can be attributed to the double-button press issue, the rest to sluggish response (and associated user error of impatiently hitting the button again).


I'm not saying it can't happen, but I doubt it happens that often, and like Gonzo said, if it is that much of an issue for someone, and I suppose I guess it could be, just stop using the Clear button, and instead start using Select > Delete Now, or Right-arrow > Delete Now... thereby creating your own confirm delete... just make it work for you...
So... for most of you, two buttons is too much of a burden, but I should use four button presses as a workaround? heh. :p

[mchips]

So... for most of you, two buttons is too much of a burden, but I should use four button presses as a workaround? heh. :p If that's too much for you, then how about Select > Clear...

I just tried it, with Select > Clear > Clear > Clear, pressing Clear three times in rapid succession to simulate a double or triple keypress... it didn't buffer those additional Clear keypresses, so it seems to wait until it returns to the Now Playing List before accepting any additional Clear keypresses to delete additional recordings...

So, instead of Clear > Select, like it used to be, you need only reverse it... Select > Clear... at first it may seem awkward, as with any change, but it's something that shouldn't be difficult to get used to, eventually not even having to think about it.

Select (the program I want to delete) > Clear (to delete it)...
We still get the one-button delete with Clear, and you can get a two-button delete...

[jfh3]

In 7.3 'Clear' doesn't have any effect on the items in the ToDo list.

This is a bug in 7.3 - clearly not working as designed (or as documented in the viewer's manual).

I'd be very surprised if this one isn't fixed in the next release.

[Rhindle]

If that's too much for you, then how about Select > Clear...
That's a better work-around, and I'll try it (although it won't stop me from worrying about whether my wife will unintentionally delete something of mine). I still stand by my assertion that it's an unusual, and dangerous, way for a delete function to work, and they shouldn't have changed it.

[Jonathan_S]

That's a better work-around, and I'll try it (although it won't stop me from worrying about whether my wife will unintentionally delete something of mine). I still stand by my assertion that it's an unusual, and dangerous, way for a delete function to work, and they shouldn't have changed it.Well it is the same way that both Windows and Macs handle delete. They don't ask (unless the file was read only) they just move it directly to the recycle / trash.
(Although recycle / trash last longer that recently deleted items.)


One problem with the old two button delete (and it's one that bit me once) is the clear - select combo was used enough it became automatic. I hit clear on the wrong program, but hit select before realizing that. Oops.

Requiring the select confirmation did protect against accidental bumping the clear button, or double pressing the clear, but provided little protection (and no recovery) from accidently deleting the wrong show.

(Although this wouldn't be a significant problem if TiVo reenabled two button delete but left the recently deleted folder)

[DancnDude]

I like it this way better because I don't delete shows right away. I watch them and leave them on the TiVo for my roommate to watch whenever he wants. I don't always know what show he's seen. I also like keeping them a bit because sometimes people on the discussion boards here mention something that I can go back and watch again. Then every so often, I go through and mass delete all the old stuff. Mass deletion using the old way was very clunky and took forever. Now it's nice and quick. With the recently deleted folder acting as an undo, I vastly prefer this method.

[ZeoTiVo]

Realistically, it's probably happened to me only about ten times. But it's a PITA when it does happen, and one of these days I won't notice. Probably three of those times can be attributed to the double-button press issue, the rest to sluggish response (and associated user error of impatiently hitting the button again).


So... for most of you, two buttons is too much of a burden, but I should use four button presses as a workaround? heh. :p


I actually tend to delete a show at the end of watching it. The bug in 7.3 that does not have that delete dialog show up is annoying to me. Hope they patch that soon.

but when I do go and delete a show I did the second confirm button becasue I had to but even then an occaisional mis step and I lost a show. I actually love having the recover folder -
now the otehr thing I have are shows I TiVoToGo. I like being able to clear those quickly with just hitting clear a bunch of times. I like the one step of it myself.

But I do also agree with you that things like this can be configured to each users preference.

[mchips]

(Although recycle / trash last longer that recently deleted items.) Not necessarily... ;)

As with just about anything, it seems, it depends on the user...

I don't have Suggestions turned on to automatically record, and I have 400 GB drives in my DT's, so I still have over 120 programs in each of my Recently Deleted folders dating back almost two months...

On the other hand, I often delete large files on my PC, in GB's, so my Recycle Bin on my PC gets cleared out much more often thereby making the Recently Deleted folder on my TiVo last longer...

Just to point out that it all just depends on individual circumstances... :)

But, yes, if people have Suggestions turned on, and/or record a lot and have smaller drives, then yes, the Recently Deleted folder has a higher turn-around...

[Rhindle]

Well it is the same way that both Windows and Macs handle delete. They don't ask (unless the file was read only) they just move it directly to the recycle / trash. (Although recycle / trash last longer that recently deleted items.)That's not the way any of the systems that I use handle deletion. In Windows Explorer, hitting the delete key results in the prompt "Are you sure you want to send file to the Recycle Bin?" In Konqueror (Linux), I get a similar prompt. In Mac Finder, I get no prompt, but it requires a two-key chord (apple-delete). All three can be easily undone with a ctrl-z (or apple-z), and the files will not leave the trash (in Windows, anyway) until you manually clear it or overfill it with additional big files.

Some people, of course, change their settings so they won't get these confirmations, and I respect their right to do that. Just like I think I should be able to get my Tivo deletion confirmations back. :) (And this is a functional, rather than cosmetic, change I'm fussing about... at least I'm not complaining about changes to text in the menus.)

... Mass deletion using the old way was very clunky and took forever. ...I used to mass delete with Clear-Select and never found it to be all that clunky. IIRC, you could delete one show every 1-2 seconds (but maybe it was a little slower than that?). Perhaps you were deleting a lot more shows than I. Compare, however, accidentally hitting the wrong button when reordering season passes and having to wait 20 minutes. That's clunky.

... I actually love having the recover folder ...Well, I'm not going to argue about that. It's definitely a Good Thing. (But as usual, I wish it were a little different... like maybe suggestions weren't allowed to overwrite deleted programs until they ripened for a few days.)

[megazone]

None of my other electronic gizmos treat file deletion with the same cavalier attitude the Tivo now does. Why most (all?) of you like it better this way bewilders me. :rolleyes:Because it is far easier and I have *never* had a bad deletion when using it that wasn't my fault.

But even if I did, Recently Deleted is right there and you can recover the show. I have fat fingered a deletion so I just recover the show. I've done that maybe twice.

After using TiVo for over 4 years, I think this is one of the best changes they have ever made to the UI!