Question re: Denver Area

[jkrell]

Hey all:

I recently moved to Denver with my 2 HR10-250s. I have DirecTV working great and recently had an installer come out to set up an OTA antenna in my attic. Basic two story house with the attic above the second story. Located in far north suburbs (Erie/Lafayette area). Based on antennaweb.org and some other resources, I appear to be 15 or so miles from the transmission sites of the local channels.

The installers did what I think was a really shabby job. The antenna looks like they walked into my attic and dropped it where it lay. There are some moderately bent elements, elements touching the joists, etc. It is pointed sort of down toward the ground but (they insist) in the right heading for the transmission sites. Right now, I get only the WB, UPN and FOX. Of these, FOX is the only one I ever watch. No dice on NBC and ABC (which show up at about 25% signal strength) or CBS (8-10%).

Do any of you reside in the north-suburbs of Denver and get all of the locals in HD OTA? I need to be able to tell my installers that others have done this successfully so that they know I am not just an unreasonable customer (which I am sure I am).

Please help. I cannot live without my HD locals!

[kgclark75]

Check out this forum at avsforum. Lots and lots of info about getting Denver locals.


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=28456&page=517&pp=30

[jkrell]

Check out this forum at avsforum. Lots and lots of info about getting Denver locals.


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=28456&page=517&pp=30


Geez, 517 pages! That won't take me all weekend long to read or anything!!

Seriously, thanks for the tip. I always forget about AVS Forums because I don't go there all that often.

[jkrell]

On quick glance, the situation in Denver looks pretty bad. How does one go about getting a waiver so I can get these through DirecTV (non-MPEG4). Right now I get ABC out of LA (never understood why, but it has been that way for years) -- so they should be able to add the others, right?

[A J Ricaud]

Geez, 517 pages! That won't take me all weekend long to read or anything!!

Seriously, thanks for the tip. I always forget about AVS Forums because I don't go there all that often.

Here's another good site to post OTA questions:

http://www.hometheaterspot.com/htsthreads/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=UBB55

[tivolocity]

I live in SE Denver, between Aurora and Parker. Generally, it seems like people haven't been very successful getting waivers here. I'm about same distance from Republic Plaza as you are, and use a ChannelMaster 4228. I get a great signal on all the channels. Although, I've heard the reception north of downtown is a little more difficult.

[TyroneShoes]

I vote for the 4228, too.

I think Denver still has tower issues requiring some of the main DT stations to be at a lower power than they would like to be. This means that an amp might be in order even as close as 15 miles. But the 4228 has about 10-12 dB of gain, so I would try that by itself first.

I am 20 miles from all full-power stations, and I found that the best combination was a simple dipole antenna (no multipath issues for me) into a variable amp with FM trap, into a variable attenuator, into a splitter (2 HR10s and a Sony tuner). Replace the dipole in my setup with a 4228, and that would probably give you the best chance in Denver at that distance. Fine tune the system for the most difficult station and the rest will generally fall in line.

[jkrell]

Thanks for the reference to the ChannelMaster 4228. It looks like it might be a lot better than what I am using. Based on reviews of it online, it looks like the highly directional nature of it might be exactly what I need.

One last question -- can the 4228 be mounted inside an attic -- I assume so but thought I would ask anyway...

[TyroneShoes]

Absolutely. Being actually a 4"-thin square "sheet" rather than a gimongous 15-foot yagi makes this much more practical, in fact. Remember, actual channels below about Ch 9 might need a different antenna than a 4228, but Ch 9-69 will work fine.

But don't count out the cheapies. jkrell needs an upgrade, but not everyone does. I'm using the free FM antenna that shipped with my AV receiver, taped to a window. Fine-tuned for my scenario, as described above, it works perfectly, 24/7/365.

[jkrell]

Absolutely. Being actually a 4"-thin square "sheet" rather than a gimongous 15-foot yagi makes this much more practical, in fact. Remember, actual channels below about Ch 9 might need a different antenna than a 4228, but Ch 9-69 will work fine.

All the HD channels (at least the majors -- NBC, ABC, CBS, FOX, WB and UPN -- here in Denver transmit on UHF frequencies only, so this is the perfect antenna for the area. I agree about the size. The not-so-smart installers put in the big 13-14' Terk antenna (had they asked me first I'd have advised against it), and complained about maneuverability the whole time. The 4228 will be much more manageable in my space. I am excited -- I think it will work.

Thanks all.

[jkrell]

One more question. I don't think I have power in my attic. Hopefully I will not need an amplifier, but if I do what do you think the best way is to go about hooking one up? They're supposed to be as close to the antenna as possible, right?

[Adam1115]

Hey all:

I recently moved to Denver with my 2 HR10-250s. I have DirecTV working great and recently had an installer come out to set up an OTA antenna in my attic. Basic two story house with the attic above the second story. Located in far north suburbs (Erie/Lafayette area). Based on antennaweb.org and some other resources, I appear to be 15 or so miles from the transmission sites of the local channels.

The installers did what I think was a really shabby job. The antenna looks like they walked into my attic and dropped it where it lay. There are some moderately bent elements, elements touching the joists, etc. It is pointed sort of down toward the ground but (they insist) in the right heading for the transmission sites. Right now, I get only the WB, UPN and FOX. Of these, FOX is the only one I ever watch. No dice on NBC and ABC (which show up at about 25% signal strength) or CBS (8-10%).

Do any of you reside in the north-suburbs of Denver and get all of the locals in HD OTA? I need to be able to tell my installers that others have done this successfully so that they know I am not just an unreasonable customer (which I am sure I am).

Please help. I cannot live without my HD locals!

You need a GOOD Outdoor antenna mounted on your roof aimed for Downtown, you should be able to get a good signal.

[TyroneShoes]

One more question. I don't think I have power in my attic. Hopefully I will not need an amplifier, but if I do what do you think the best way is to go about hooking one up? They're supposed to be as close to the antenna as possible, right?
It's not a hard and fast rule, but depends on the received signal level. The farther you are away from the towers or the weaker the received signal is, the more important it becomes for your amp to be closer to the antenna. It's all about preserving the weak signal level at the highest level it can be before it hits the first transistor, which would be either in the first stage of the amp, or in the front end of the tuner (when not using an amp). Obviously, there is more level directly out of the antenna than there is 60 ft further down the downlead.

So, typically the locations where a mast-mounted amp is imperative are those in the fringes, +50 miles away, or when trying to pick up low-powered stations. You don't fall into the first category, but you might fall into the second. Luckilly, highly-directional antennae also have high gain, which will offset this need to a degree in either case.

In your situation you can probably place the amp farther away from the antenna if you need to place it convenient to power. Just keep the lead as short as is practical, use RG-6 cable, and make it the first thing the downlead sees in the eventual distribution, and you should be OK (although you may end up needing some attenuation just before the amp, which would be rare).

I'm about 20 miles away and I use about 9 dB of amplification, but I'm feeding 3-way distribution (6 dB of loss right there) and my antenna only has 3 dB of gain. A 4228 has 10-12 dB of gain, so in my situation, for instance, replacing the antenna with a 4228 would mean I could probably remove the amp (or at least turn down the gain significantly). In your scenario I would try things with just the antenna, first. You can always fine-tune with an amp or attenuator or FM trap later on.

The first and most-important step is the correct antenna. Using the most highly-directional antenna you can find (a 4228, typically) should compensate for the low power (if that is the issue) and the multipath (which is probably an issue). It will also compensate for the inevitalble signal smear and attenuation that installing inside an attic brings. Outside is even better.

[A J Ricaud]

One more question. I don't think I have power in my attic. Hopefully I will not need an amplifier, but if I do what do you think the best way is to go about hooking one up? They're supposed to be as close to the antenna as possible, right?

Most amps let you place the power supply in the house and send the power up through the coax downlead. The amp strips out the power from the RF signal.