HR10-250 HD questions

[mcdougll]

My DTiVo died recently and I am getting the new HR10-250. My questions are these:

1) How will I be able to tell the difference between SD and HD, other than (apparent) picture quality? Will there be any sort of indication, either on the screen and/or on the NPL?

2) My understanding is that HD locals in my area are not available (doesn't really matter why), other than via OTA antenna. I just so happen to subscribe to Comcast high speed internet and Basic channels (to get a subscriber price break). Comcast tells me they provide any HD signals from the local channels whenever they are broadcast. So, my question is this: Shouldn't I be able to connect my Comcast Basic channel cable signal to the Antenna input, and have the HD DTiVo be able to record the local channels in HD (when available)?
Basically, I'd be using Comcast basic cable as my local antenna for HD. Right?

Any comments on either of these questions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. :)

[annenoe]

My onscreen guide indicates when a program is in HD, including the OTAs. However, because the locals are coming in via MPEG4, even tho' it says it's HD, I don't "view" HD on my HR10-250. So, the guide says HD say on channel 7, but I only see it in HD on my OTA version of channel 7 (channel 7-1). Make sense?

[stevel]

1) There is USUALLY an HDTV keyword in the program info (not on NPL), but not consistently. Some channels are always HD (HDnet, for example). Some sometimes send an upconverted SD signal with letterboxing. There's no indication which it is. For OTA channels, you often have nothing to go on.

2) Almost certainly not. The way to tell is to ask Comcast if you need their set-top box to view these channels and what channel numbers are used. If they say that you need a STB or that the channel numbers are simple integers such as 802, then the answer is no. If they say that an ordinary HDTV with antenna input can receive the channels, and that they are selected with numbers such as 27-1, then the answer is "maybe".

Most cable systems do not just pass the broadcast 8VSB signal but use the cable QAM method to send the local HDTV channels. The HR10 can get 8VSB but not QAM.

[mcdougll]

My onscreen guide indicates when a program is in HD, including the OTAs. However, because the locals are coming in via MPEG4, even tho' it says it's HD, I don't "view" HD on my HR10-250. So, the guide says HD say on channel 7, but I only see it in HD on my OTA version of channel 7 (channel 7-1). Make sense?

First, thanks for the help!

Ummm, not sure if I follow you. Are you saying when you get local-ABC (for example) via satellite feed, it's SD, and when you view local-ABC via over-the-air antenna, it's HD?
If that's true, can't the HR10-250 record the HD feed? Wouldn't you then be able to 'watch' the recorded HD show in HD?

[sschwart]

So, does recording a show on an HD channel that is upconverted and letterboxed take significantly more disk space than recording a SD channel?

[Church AV Guy]

An hour of HD takes about 7 times the space as an hour of SD. This is dependent on the level of compression that DirecTV is using at the time, and can be quite variable. If the actual content is letterboxed, then the black space takes less hard drive space as it has no real content, but an SD program that is upconverted to 720p of 1080i still uses the same bandwidth as a native hi def program.

[mcdougll]

1) [snip]

2) Almost certainly not. The way to tell is to ask Comcast if you need their set-top box to view these channels and what channel numbers are used. If they say that you need a STB or that the channel numbers are simple integers such as 802, then the answer is no. If they say that an ordinary HDTV with antenna input can receive the channels, and that they are selected with numbers such as 27-1, then the answer is "maybe".

Most cable systems do not just pass the broadcast 8VSB signal but use the cable QAM method to send the local HDTV channels. The HR10 can get 8VSB but not QAM.

Thanks for the info!
I called my local Comcast, and asked if they use the 8VSB or the QAM method to transmit HD when talking about their local, basic channel package. This question seemed to cause all sorts of consternation on the part of the CSR. Eventually, she said if a local channel decides to broadcast a show in HD, they (Comcast) just transmit what they get from the broadcaster. No cable box is necessary if your TV is HD-capable (ready, whatever. ie no tuner/decoder necessary). Also, I would not need to switch to another channel.
So, my local NBC channel is 5, and if they decide to broadcast a show in HD, I will be able to get that HD broadcast on channel 5.

She never did address the 8VSB/QAM question, even though I spent quite a while on hold while she "researched" my question. Maybe she went to the bathroom, I don't know. :rolleyes:

So, given the above, is the answer a "maybe" or (hope! hope!) a qualified "yes"?

[annenoe]

First, thanks for the help!

Ummm, not sure if I follow you. Are you saying when you get local-ABC (for example) via satellite feed, it's SD, and when you view local-ABC via over-the-air antenna, it's HD?
If that's true, can't the HR10-250 record the HD feed? Wouldn't you then be able to 'watch' the recorded HD show in HD?

For example, I watch Good Morning America. If I watch the DirecTV feed (channel 7 in the Bay Area), it says it's being broadcast in HD. I can watch it, I can record it. However, since it is coming in via MPEG4, I'm not really seeing/recording HD. But, when I switch to channel 7-1, which is being fed via an OTA antenna, I now see and record GMA in HD. And the difference is quite obvious. I can only assume that what I'm seeing on the satellite feed is "SD" but I'm not really sure how the HR10-250 is displaying MPEG4 HD programming. Only assuming it's HD.

[stevel]

Ok. First, it would be incorrect to say that if your NBC affiliate was on channel 5 and broadcast in HD that you'd tune to channel 5. If you did that, you'd get SD. Depending on your TV, you might tune to 5-1 to get the digital version which may or may not be in HD.

However, if the Comcast rep was correct in saying that all you need was an HDTV with an HD tuner (important - some "HDTV ready" sets are just monitors that require an external tuner), then yes, the HR10-250 would see those channels.

The proof will be actually trying it. If it really matters, call back and ask to speak to someone in the engineering department.

[mcdougll]

For example, I watch Good Morning America. If I watch the DirecTV feed (channel 7 in the Bay Area), it says it's being broadcast in HD. I can watch it, I can record it. However, since it is coming in via MPEG4, I'm not really seeing/recording HD. But, when I switch to channel 7-1, which is being fed via an OTA antenna, I now see and record GMA in HD. And the difference is quite obvious. I can only assume that what I'm seeing on the satellite feed is "SD" but I'm not really sure how the HR10-250 is displaying MPEG4 HD programming. Only assuming it's HD.

Interesting. Is there a difference that you can see in picture quality between a DirecTV-fed show that says HD, and a DirecTV-fed show that doesn't say HD?
In other words, when GMA says HD, does it look any better than another show on at the same time that doesn't say HD?

[finaldiet]

When you go to your guide' it will show channels as: 7, 7-1, 7-2 and so forth. The numbers with 1 after them are your OTA numbers and are HD. If you have MPEG4, your local channels would be 2,5,7,9,etc. and would be HD, if you are able to get them in your area.

[Arcady]

The HR10-250 does not tune MPEG4 content.

[samberger]

For example, I watch Good Morning America. If I watch the DirecTV feed (channel 7 in the Bay Area), it says it's being broadcast in HD. I can watch it, I can record it. However, since it is coming in via MPEG4, I'm not really seeing/recording HD. But, when I switch to channel 7-1, which is being fed via an OTA antenna, I now see and record GMA in HD. And the difference is quite obvious. I can only assume that what I'm seeing on the satellite feed is "SD" but I'm not really sure how the HR10-250 is displaying MPEG4 HD programming. Only assuming it's HD.

i don't think you're getting an mpeg4 feed on the tivo. you're getting mpeg2. just like i do over my r10 tivo. but on if you had an h20 mpeg4 receiver, you would see the hd version of it. when i get my free hr10-250 on saturday(thanks direct tv...) i plan to swap out my r10 for it, and plug my indoor antenna into it so i can tivo all hd programming. however, i'll still keep my h20 mpeg4 receiver in the event that i ever have any issues picking up my locals ota.

[annenoe]

The HR10-250 does not tune MPEG4 content.

Huh?? Am I nuts? Local channels in SF Bay Area have already converted to MPEG4 haven't they?

And my HR10-250 can tune to them, I just don't see it in HD. HBO HD is obviously still MPEG2 b/c I see that (and Showtime HD) just fine.

What am I missing here?

[willardcpa]

Huh?? Am I nuts? Local channels in SF Bay Area have already converted to MPEG4 haven't they?

And my HR10-250 can tune to them, I just don't see it in HD. HBO HD is obviously still MPEG2 b/c I see that (and Showtime HD) just fine.

What am I missing here?
Well, maybe you're missing that DTV is broadcasting the locals in both MPEG4 and MPEG2.

[phox_mulder]

Huh?? Am I nuts? Local channels in SF Bay Area have already converted to MPEG4 haven't they?

And my HR10-250 can tune to them, I just don't see it in HD. HBO HD is obviously still MPEG2 b/c I see that (and Showtime HD) just fine.

What am I missing here?

Only local HD channels via DirecTV are in MPEG4.
LA and NY locals are MPEG2, as they are the "National Networks" or "Distant Networks"

Local SD channels via DirecTV are still MPEG2, they show up as 2,4,5 etc.

OTA HD channels are MPEG2, they show up as 2-1, 4-2, 5-2, etc.

OTA SD channels cannot be tuned or recorded with the HR10-250, and wouldn't show up in the guide.


phox

[annenoe]

i don't think you're getting an mpeg4 feed on the tivo. you're getting mpeg2. just like i do over my r10 tivo. but on if you had an h20 mpeg4 receiver, you would see the hd version of it. when i get my free hr10-250 on saturday(thanks direct tv...) i plan to swap out my r10 for it, and plug my indoor antenna into it so i can tivo all hd programming. however, i'll still keep my h20 mpeg4 receiver in the event that i ever have any issues picking up my locals ota.

Well what the heck am I getting? How can I be getting an mpeg2 feed if SF locals are in mpeg4? Curious. Can someone 'splain to me what's going on?

[phox_mulder]

Well what the heck am I getting? How can I be getting an mpeg2 feed if SF locals are in mpeg4? Curious. Can someone 'splain to me what's going on?

See if my post right above yours explains things.

phox

[annenoe]

Interesting. Is there a difference that you can see in picture quality between a DirecTV-fed show that says HD, and a DirecTV-fed show that doesn't say HD?
In other words, when GMA says HD, does it look any better than another show on at the same time that doesn't say HD?

Sorry McDougll - there are folks here telling me I can't possibly be watching what I'm watching. All I can tell you is that when I watch programming that is billed as HD on my local channels, it looks the same as all the other channels - like SD. It does *not* look better b/c it's HD. The OTA stuff, and HBO/Showtime HD is crystal clear and beautiful, both to watch and via recording.

[AstroDad]

Well what the heck am I getting? How can I be getting an mpeg2 feed if SF locals are in mpeg4? Curious. Can someone 'splain to me what's going on?

SF Locals are currently being transmitted in BOTH Mpeg 2 and 4. If you have an H20 receiver and 5lnb dish you will receive the Mpeg 4 version. If you have any other revceiver and a 2 or 3 lnb dish, you will get the Mpeg 2 version.

San Fran (like Houston, where I am) is one of the forst markets to get the Mpeg 4 transmission, but you have to have an h20 to get them.

[AstroDad]

Sorry McDougll - there are folks here telling me I can't possibly be watching what I'm watching. All I can tell you is that when I watch programming that is billed as HD on my local channels, it looks the same as all the other channels - like SD. It does *not* look better b/c it's HD. The OTA stuff, and HBO/Showtime HD is crystal clear and beautiful, both to watch and via recording.

When you say it is billed as HD, do you mean that's what it says in the "info" box, or what?

[annenoe]

Only local HD channels via DirecTV are in MPEG4.
LA and NY locals are MPEG2, as they are the "National Networks" or "Distant Networks"

Local SD channels via DirecTV are still MPEG2, they show up as 2,4,5 etc.

OTA HD channels are MPEG2, they show up as 2-1, 4-2, 5-2, etc.

OTA SD channels cannot be tuned or recorded with the HR10-250, and wouldn't show up in the guide.


phox

OK - I'm smiling here b/c all I can do is laugh at how dense I must be.

What am I watching when I'm watching the SF version of the news, on ABC, via DirecTV that is broadcasting in HD? If that isn't a local channel, what is it? That's where I'm confused. If it's mpeg4, how can I tune to it? If it's not mpeg4, then what do they mean when they say San Francisco locals have converted to HD? My head is spinning backwards...

[phox_mulder]

Sounds like San Francisco has a unique situation.
HD locals in both MPEG2 and MPEG4, so I guess you can see them and record them with your HR10-250.

I'd like to know how DirecTV, and therefore the guide,
differentiate between the SD locals, the HD locals and the OTA HD locals.


phox

[AstroDad]

OK - I'm smiling here b/c all I can do is laugh at how dense I must be.

What am I watching when I'm watching the SF version of the news, on ABC, via DirecTV that is broadcasting in HD? If that isn't a local channel, what is it? That's where I'm confused. If it's mpeg4, how can I tune to it? If it's not mpeg4, then what do they mean when they say San Francisco locals have converted to HD? My head is spinning backwards...

The only locals transmitted by DirecTV that are in HD other than LA and NY are MPEG4 locals. You cannot get those with your HR10-250.

Let me ask you two things.

1) When you look at the guide for that channel, what exactly does it say? For example. In Houston there are multiple things it could say for NBC:

HN2
KPRC2
2
2-1
2-2
2-3
2-4

What does your say?

2) Are you sure nothing at all is plugged into the OTA connection in the back of your HR10?

[annenoe]

When you say it is billed as HD, do you mean that's what it says in the "info" box, or what?

Crap, I feel like I've stepped into it.

In my guide, I see GMA on channel 7 with the "HD" logo after it. I see GMA on channel 7-1 with the "HD" logo. I see Star Wars on HBO HD with the "HD" logo.

I can tune to (watch) channel 7, I can see the HD bars on the side, but it's obviously not in HD. 7-1 is HD (same show, totally different picture quality), 70 is HD. My assumption was that I can tune to the GMA HD feed (that should be in mpeg4 if SF locals have gone mpeg4), I just don't see it in HD. I see HBO HD in HD b/c DirecTV is still sending that mpeg2. And I'm seeing 7-1 in HD because that too is mpeg2.

Sorry - I don't mean to be such a pain - but I just don't get what's happening here.

[AstroDad]

Crap, I feel like I've stepped into it.

In my guide, I see GMA on channel 7 with the "HD" logo after it. I see GMA on channel 7-1 with the "HD" logo. I see Star Wars on HBO HD with the "HD" logo.

I can tune to (watch) channel 7, I can see the HD bars on the side, but it's obviously not in HD. 7-1 is HD (same show, totally different picture quality), 70 is HD. My assumption was that I can tune to the GMA HD feed (that should be in mpeg4 if SF locals have gone mpeg4), I just don't see it in HD. I see HBO HD in HD b/c DirecTV is still sending that mpeg2. And I'm seeing 7-1 in HD because that too is mpeg2.

Sorry - I don't mean to be such a pain - but I just don't get what's happening here.

If you are getting reception on the 7-1 channel that is an OTA feed. You either have something plugged into the OTA jack on the back of your receiver or you live next door to an antenna farm :)

[Arcady]

You're missing something here:

Local HD channels (via satellite) are MPEG4. (Except in LA and NY.)
Local SD channels (via satellite) are MPEG2.
OTA Locals have dashes in the channel numbers (and are also MPEG2).

Your HR10-250 cannot decode MPEG4 channels, or even see the satellite they are coming from anyway. If you tune to channel 7, you are getting an SD feed of the station from the satellite in MPEG2. The bars on the side are inserted by the TiVo or your widescreen TV, since the content is not widescreen. If you tune to channel 7-1, you are tuning in a local OTA broadcast via antenna. If you have bars on the sides, then it is not a widescreen program. Compare the two channels during primetime, when widescreen shows are on.

If your guide data for a satellite local channel says "HDTV" and it is really SDTV, then there is bad guide data.

[annenoe]

You're missing something here:

Local HD channels (via satellite) are MPEG4. (Except in LA and NY.)
Local SD channels (via satellite) are MPEG2.
OTA Locals have dashes in the channel numbers (and are also MPEG2).

Your HR10-250 cannot decode MPEG4 channels, or even see the satellite they are coming from anyway. If you tune to channel 7, you are getting an SD feed of the station from the satellite in MPEG2. The bars on the side are inserted by the TiVo or your widescreen TV, since the content is not widescreen. If you tune to channel 7-1, you are tuning in a local OTA broadcast via antenna. If you have bars on the sides, then it is not a widescreen program. Compare the two channels during primetime, when widescreen shows are on.

If your guide data for a satellite local channel says "HDTV" and it is really SDTV, then there is bad guide data.

Look guys, I'm not lying to you and I'm not that much of an idiot.

I know the differenc between 7 and 7-1. I know when I am tuning to OTA. This has nothing to do with OTA.

2 weeks ago, I was watching GMA in HD thru a brand new DirecTV installed HD TV satellite receiver. I know the difference between HD and SD. When he guie said it was in HD, then I saw HD. HD on ABC, CBS - what I refer to as "my locals". Then, I took the cable that was attached to the HD receiver and plugged it into the back of my HR10-250 - not the antenna - the coax from my satellite. And I can still tune to channel 7 even when the guide says the programming is HD.

So, which one of these is true?

1) Local channels in Bay Area are not mpeg4, despite all the info to the contrary including your assertion. If you are asserting the Bay Area locals are mpeg4, then my HR10-250 is absolutely tuning to them - they come in SD.
2) My HR10-250 can **TUNE** to an mpeg4 channel - I am not saying I see HD but someone suggested I would not even be able to tune to it. I am.

All I'm saying is that something is not kosher. 2 weeks ago I could watch GMA on my local channel 7 in HD with the HD receiver, therefore, channel 7 must be coming in via MPEG4. Today, I can tune to channel 7 with my HR10-250, therefore the 10-250 can tune to an MPEG4 channel, just not display HD.

[phox_mulder]

2 weeks ago, I was watching GMA in HD thru a brand new DirecTV installed HD TV satellite receiver.

Is this HD TV Satellite receiver listed in your sig?

If not, then there-in lies the confusion.

The DirecTV HD Satellite (H20?) reciever can tune both MPEG2 and MPEG4,
otherwise it wouldn't be able to tune to the rest of DirecTV's channel lineup.

It could very well be seeing MPEG2 HD locals if they are available in your area.

The same channels would be seen by your HR10-250.

The HR10-250 can not in any way, shape or form, tune to an MPEG4 channel,
it does not have MPEG4 decoding hardware.


Edit:
It also could be the way the H20 tunes and displays the channels.
DirecTV only feeds one subchannel of local HD, the actual HD subchannel, and could just be calling it 7,
I'll use 7 for this example, and it is in MPEG4 which the H20 tunes to just fine.
You are using an HD receiver, so it assumes you want to see the HD channel,
so that's what it gives you as channel 7.

Now, you plug in your HR10-250 to the satellite line and go to channel 7.
Now you are seeing the SD local channel which DirecTV has been feeding for years.
This receiver only sees the MPEG2 channels, so it calls it channel 7, as there are no other channel 7's as far as it is concerned.

If you were to tune to it from an antenna, on either the H20 or H10-250 in HD it would be 7-1 or 7-2, depending on how that station uses it's subchannels.

I'm not familiar at all with the HD DirecTV standalone receiver, so I could be talking out of my bum.


phox

[annenoe]

>>The DirecTV HD Satellite (H20?) reciever can tune both MPEG2 and MPEG4,
otherwise it wouldn't be able to tune to the rest of DirecTV's channel lineup.<<

OK - sounds reasonable.

>>It could very well be seeing MPEG2 HD locals if they are available in your area.
The same channels would be seen by your HR10-250.<<

Well, then then I should see those in HD with the HR10-250 right?, since I am seeing HBO HD in HD. Herein lies my confusion.

If Channel 7 was coming in HD via mpeg2 with the H20, then I would see it in HD with the HR10-250 - but I'm not, therefore it cannot be mpeg2.
If channel 7 had been coming in HD on the H20 in mpeg4, I should not be able to tune to it with the HR10-250. But I can. I simply cannot come up with an explanation that holds true for both cases.

Honestly, while I believe you believe what you're saying, I'm a programmer - everything I do is resolves to an if/else statement. And this one just doesn't resolve. The only answer is that somehow, I am getting my local SF Bay Area channels in mpeg2, therefore my HR10-250 can tune them. There is no other explanation that works, if everything you say is true (which I believe).

[TyroneShoes]

Interesting. Is there a difference that you can see in picture quality between a DirecTV-fed show that says HD, and a DirecTV-fed show that doesn't say HD?
In other words, when GMA says HD, does it look any better than another show on at the same time that doesn't say HD?
Yes and no. I don't think there's a simple answer, but there is a complete one.

Quite often the SD version of a program fed to the local station will have lower-thirds graphics saying "available in HD" or "also available in HD". While this is to let SD viewers know the show is also in HD on their ".1" channel, it it confusing because a lot of folks assume that since it is "available" that they must be actually seeing it in HD. There are more people than we might imagine who assume this, even though many of them don't even own an HD display, interestingly enough. Ironically, the SD version then gets more "HD" badging than the HD version itself, quite often.

The fact that the program is SD limits the resolution in any case, although when a program is also "available in HD" the overall quality might be slightly better, simply because they are using new HD equipment in place of older, SD equipment. For example, David Letterman announced that they had replaced their SD cameras with HD cameras 2 or 3 years ago, and there was a corresponding noticeable improvement in quality, but certainly not as significant as when he actually began delivering the show in HD last year.

As a DTV HD STB/PVR customer, you can get SD in a variety of ways. The two primary methods are the local-into-local stations which are your local analog stations picked up and rebroadcast as conventional low-quality SD along with all of the other typical non-HD cable channels that DTV carries, and the other is SD that is delivered on an HD channel, either an OTA or a sat channel.

But there is a lot that can degrade the PQ beyond the simple fact that it is SD, so the quality varies slightly due to individual weak links in the chain, and greatly between those two primary methods, specifically because DBS delivers SD channels at a very low bit rate. IOW, an SD upconverted program can look quite good over an HD channel compared to how it may look over an SD channel. The general strategy is usually to record SD from SD channels when HDD space is a consideration or you will be keeping the recording for some time, and to record SD from an HD channel when space is not a consideration (rare in my experience) or when you will be viewing the program within a day or so. You are then trading off the higher space requirements for a significant quality improvement, though not as good as HD itself, of course.

[samberger]

>>The DirecTV HD Satellite (H20?) reciever can tune both MPEG2 and MPEG4,
otherwise it wouldn't be able to tune to the rest of DirecTV's channel lineup.<<

OK - sounds reasonable.

>>It could very well be seeing MPEG2 HD locals if they are available in your area.
The same channels would be seen by your HR10-250.<<

Well, then then I should see those in HD with the HR10-250 right?, since I am seeing HBO HD in HD. Herein lies my confusion.

If Channel 7 was coming in HD via mpeg2 with the H20, then I would see it in HD with the HR10-250 - but I'm not, therefore it cannot be mpeg2.
If channel 7 had been coming in HD on the H20 in mpeg4, I should not be able to tune to it with the HR10-250. But I can. I simply cannot come up with an explanation that holds true for both cases.

Honestly, while I believe you believe what you're saying, I'm a programmer - everything I do is resolves to an if/else statement. And this one just doesn't resolve. The only answer is that somehow, I am getting my local SF Bay Area channels in mpeg2, therefore my HR10-250 can tune them. There is no other explanation that works, if everything you say is true (which I believe).


this is what's happening, and i know because i live in oakland. when you get ch 7 on the hr10-250, and the program is hd, it will say so in the guide. but in the bay area, you can only see hd programming on ch 7 if you have an mpeg4 decoder, which the hr10-250 does not. you can see the program allright, but it's not hd. it's sd. because you're getting the mpeg2 version. because as others have pointed out, both version are sent to us. if you were using the h20, non tivo receiver, which does have an mpeg5 decoder, and had a 5lnb dish, you would be able to see any hd programming coming in on any of the bay locals(2,4,5,7...but not pbs, wb cause those are still only had ota) in hd, however, you are able to see hd programming via ota because you have some sort of antenna plugged into the hr10-250. that's why you can see 5-1, 7-1, 9-1, etc. hbo, showtime, etc are a different deal because hd programming on those channels come in via mpeg2, which the hr10-250 can decode.

i hope that's clear enough, but if not, keep asking.

[AstroDad]

this is what's happening, and i know because i live in oakland. when you get ch 7 on the hr10-250, and the program is hd, it will say so in the guide. but in the bay area, you can only see hd programming on ch 7 if you have an mpeg4 decoder, which the hr10-250 does not. you can see the program allright, but it's not hd. it's sd. because you're getting the mpeg2 version. because as others have pointed out, both version are sent to us. if you were using the h20, non tivo receiver, which does have an mpeg5 decoder, and had a 5lnb dish, you would be able to see any hd programming coming in on any of the bay locals(2,4,5,7...but not pbs, wb cause those are still only had ota) in hd, however, you are able to see hd programming via ota because you have some sort of antenna plugged into the hr10-250. that's why you can see 5-1, 7-1, 9-1, etc. hbo, showtime, etc are a different deal because hd programming on those channels come in via mpeg2, which the hr10-250 can decode.

i hope that's clear enough, but if not, keep asking.

but he says he does not have an ota antenna plugged in to his tivo...thats the weird part

[samberger]

but he says he does not have an ota antenna plugged in to his tivo...thats the weird part

he lists a terk indoor antenna as part of his equiptment. if he can get -1 channels, then he's got it plugged into either the h20 or hr10-250. unless, for some reason, the coax is acting as an atenna. but i don't think that could happen.

[AstroDad]

he lists a terk indoor antenna as part of his equiptment. if he can get -1 channels, then he's got it plugged into either the h20 or hr10-250. unless, for some reason, the coax is acting as an atenna. but i don't think that could happen.

agreed, but he keeps insisting it has nothing to do with OTA

[Arcady]

Perhaps the install included an OTA and the installer connected it using a diplexer, unbeknownst to the OP.

[Budget_HT]

If you build a truth table based on available facts, you should be able to sort out what is possible with each receiver you own for each type of TV signal available to you.

HD TiVo (HR10-250) can ONLY decode MPEG-2 signals. They can be OTA digital channels or DirecTV satellite HD and SD channels. (converse: the HD TiVo CANNOT decode MPEG-4 from any source.)

Everywhere except NY and LA, DirecTV ONLY offers local HDTV channels as MPEG-4 via the new satellites, requiring an MPEG-4-capable receiver and the new 5-LNB dish.

All DirecTV HD STBs, including HD TiVos, are capable of tuning in local OTA digital channels. The program guide info for these channels lists them like 4-1, 4-2, etc. These are received via the single OTA antenna jack on the HD TiVo, which internally splits the signal path to feed both OTA tuners in the box.

DirecTV currently provides new HD H20 STBs (non-DVR, non-TiVo) that can decode both MPEG-2 and MPEG-4. These are the ONLY boxes available now that can tune in satellite-fed MPEG-4 local HD channels provided by DirecTV.

There is absolutely NO WAY that an HD TiVo can tune in any MPEG-4 source--PERIOD.

All of this repeats what many other folks have already said in various ways in earlier posts in this thread.

[wmcbrine]

If Channel 7 was coming in HD via mpeg2 with the H20, then I would see it in HD with the HR10-250 - but I'm not, therefore it cannot be mpeg2.
If channel 7 had been coming in HD on the H20 in mpeg4, I should not be able to tune to it with the HR10-250. But I can. I simply cannot come up with an explanation that holds true for both cases.
Very simple:

Channel 7 comes in SD via MPEG-2, AND
Channel 7 comes in HD via MPEG-4.

"Channel 7" is just a convenient mapping for the end user. There are two different signals being sent, and which one is used depends on the capabilities of the receiver.

You seem to have the notion that MPEG-2 SD local feeds are being "converted" to MPEG-4 HD local feeds. This is not the case. The HD feeds supplement the SD feeds. All the old SD channels are still sent, and will continue to be.

But it does surprise me that your SD feed is erroneously using the "HDTV" flag in its guide data.

[Dssturbo1]

Sat channel 7 is being sent in mpeg4 to the h20 direct tv hd receiver, SF HD locals.

Sat Channel 7 is being sent in mpeg2 to the hr10-250 hd tivo, SF SD locals.

that is the confusion, ONE channel but being sent in TWO different formats.

The hr10-250 is mpeg2 only, so you get the mpeg2 sd. the H20 is mpeg 2 and mpeg4, BUT it will not show both, say Channel 7 in mpeg2 SD channel and the mpeg4 HD channel, it only shows the mpeg4 HD.

[mcdougll]

Ok, I've searched repeatedly and been unable to find an answer to this one.
The software I have on the HR10-250 is 3.1. something. Can anyone tell me if that is more or less the current software for the HR10-250, or can I expect an upgrade (say, 6.2) at some point in the near future?

[rlj5242]

I guess you missed this thread on page 2 - Will the HR10-250 EVER get the 6.2 Update ?? (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=240294).

-Robert

[mcdougll]

I knew as soon as I posted that I couldn't find it, someone would point it out. Darn.
I didn't see that thread as I was searching on "HR10-250 upgrade", "HR10-250 6.2 upgrade", "HR10-250 software upgrade", etc.

Oh well. Thanks for the info.