View Full Version : Doctor Who: "The Parting of the Ways" (US 6/9/06)
Rob Helmerichs
06-10-2006, 09:31 AM
OK, this (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=303312) is stupid. Have at it! :D
Rosincrans
06-10-2006, 10:46 AM
The whole looking into the Vortex was a bit too esoteric for me, but I liked the way they handled his death. It was a nice way to say goodbye (and hello). Fantastic.
Rose left the messages for herself in the past, but if she hadn't she would have never looked into the Vortex and been able to leave the messages. Time Travel stories are inherently illogical, but I never liked these type of paradoxical loops.
Rob Helmerichs
06-10-2006, 11:42 AM
Rose left the messages for herself in the past, but if she hadn't she would have never looked into the Vortex and been able to leave the messages. Time Travel stories are inherently illogical, but I never liked these type of paradoxical loops.
There's no paradox. It only would have been a paradox had she then proceeded NOT to leave the messages. This is a perfectly orderly time loop.
Agatha Mystery
06-10-2006, 11:58 AM
I liked the fact that she left herself all sorts of messages. It seems strange that she'd call herself the Bad Wolf.
Now, why did the Doctor 'die' when he took the Vortex in himself, but Rose didn't? It was in her longer than it was in the Doctor. He sent it back into the heart of the Tardis, but it killed him. She's just fine. Doesn't quite make sense.
So Jack got left in the future. I'm assuming he can jump time as well, considering he was in 1942 (or whenever it was). He doesn't have a ship anymore, though, but it was just an ambulance ship - so could it jump time anyway? Someone mentioned Torchwood - spinoff show with Jack? And boy did he look gay in those leather pants. :D
So, the Doctor finally kisses Rose - was it just so he could take the Vortex, or was it his only chance to do it was that current Doctor?
Yay for Mickey and Rose's mom helping her open the Tardis. I felt bad for Mickey when she told him that there was nothing to keep her there. Rose had learned to help people and they just wanted her to go back to an ordinary life. She could've found something to help people, but not helping the Doctor was going to take a while to get over. They seemed to think that she should be fine with it immediately.
Oh, and when Rose was the Bad Wolf, she resurrected Jack. Did she resurrect anyone else? Is there going to be a problem with her doing that? The Doctor told her that she can't do it. I'm assuming he meant shouldn't. Did she revive the Earth and the other humans on Satellite 5?
And, since Rose has been attracted to the Doctor, even though she doesn't act on those feelings, is she going to be attracted to the current one? That's gotta be a little freaky for her. :p
Rosincrans
06-10-2006, 12:09 PM
There's no paradox. It only would have been a paradox had she then proceeded NOT to leave the messages. This is a perfectly orderly time loop.
She would have never looked into the Vortex if she hadn't left the messages. But she couldn't have left the messages if she hadn't looked into the Vortex. It's a closed loop that can't logically be entered. Call it what you like, but I never liked those.
Sherminator
06-10-2006, 01:58 PM
Helloooo predetermination, anyone?
byte_me123
06-10-2006, 03:29 PM
Just how many regenerations does the Doctor have left? I wonder how they will get out around the very last one, and still go on.
PJO1966
06-10-2006, 05:08 PM
I thought it was great way to introduce the new Doctor... "Where was I... Oh yeah, Barcelona!"
No comments on Jack kissing The Doctor?
I was at my chiropractor this morning and The Doctor came in. I did a double-take. There's no mistaking those ears. :D
thwart
06-10-2006, 05:40 PM
OK, this (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=303312) is stupid. Have at it! :D
Yeah... Well you're...
Okay you're right. I'm new to the whole Doctor Who series. But I really enjoyed this season, even if I didn't know to spell out Doctor instead of Dr.
I didn't like the finale. I don't like the fact that there is going to be another regenerated Doctor. I don't like the whole Bad Wolfe thing, because -- why "Bad Wolfe"? Why didn't Rose die? Is she a TimeLord now too? Is she going to regenerate?
I know that this whole regeneration of the Doctor thing is a big part of the mythos, but it does require a great amount of trust between the producers and the fans. Perhaps that is why the show hasn't pushed itself above a cult status.
dcheesi
06-10-2006, 08:13 PM
What gets me is that presumably the Doctor could have used the vortex himself, at the same cost of one regeneration. He was going to "die" anyway with his Delta Wave plan, plus a lot more people would have died as well. Using the vortex would have prevented all that, and he wouldn't have had to send Rose away either.
IMHO the vortex is a little too convenient a deus-ex-machina. Its power is basically unlimited, with the single caveat that someone has to die to use it. Given the number of doomsday scenarios they get into on a regular basis, it's going to be hard to explain why they can't/won't just use it again the next time they face "certain death"... Thus destroying any dramatic tension.
Mike Farrington
06-10-2006, 08:34 PM
I got an impression that it wasn't just Rose speaking. Saying things like "My Doctor" and "The Time War ends now". Was it Rose seeding "Bad Wolf" through spacetime, or the Tardis? It seemed like the Tardis just couldn't allow the last of the Time Lords to die without doing something. Maybe it couldn't intervene directly, but seeding "Bad Wolf" got Rose to take drastic action. She could wield the power of the vortex in a way that the Heart of the Tardis alone could not have.
5thcrewman
06-10-2006, 08:36 PM
I liked the Dalek Emperor/God, but jeez their ships looked 'Mars Attacks!' cheesy!
Rob Helmerichs
06-10-2006, 08:39 PM
I got an impression that it wasn't just Rose speaking. Saying things like "My Doctor" and "The Time War ends now". Was it Rose seeding "Bad Wolf" through spacetime, or the Tardis? It seemed like the Tardis just couldn't allow the last of the Time Lords to die without doing something. Maybe it couldn't intervene directly, but seeding "Bad Wolf" got Rose to take drastic action. She could wield the power of the vortex in a way that the Heart of the Tardis alone could not have.
That was kind of the impression I got--that the "Bad Wolf" was a collaboration between the TARDIS and Rose, two entities that love the Doctor.
Agatha Mystery
06-10-2006, 08:40 PM
I thought it was great way to introduce the new Doctor... "Where was I... Oh yeah, Barcelona!"
No comments on Jack kissing The Doctor?
I was at my chiropractor this morning and The Doctor came in. I did a double-take. There's no mistaking those ears. :D
I did say that Jack was very gay. I kinda expected the kiss for the Doctor. :D
It was a good way to introduce the new Doctor.
Oh, you're saying that Christopher Eccleston was at your chiropractors? Did you hit on him? Flirt with him? Get his number? Come on!
PJO1966
06-10-2006, 08:51 PM
Oh, you're saying that Christopher Eccleston was at your chiropractors? Did you hit on him? Flirt with him? Get his number? Come on!
Yes, he was there... but I didn't talk to him. I did want to ask him where Captain Jack's house in LA was, though...
pkscout
06-10-2006, 08:59 PM
I did say that Jack was very gay. I kinda expected the kiss for the Doctor. :D
Jack isn't gay. He's bisexual. ;)
Agatha Mystery
06-10-2006, 09:31 PM
Jack isn't gay. He's bisexual. ;)
He's omnisexual. :p
Agatha Mystery
06-10-2006, 09:32 PM
Yes, he was there... but I didn't talk to him. I did want to ask him where Captain Jack's house in LA was, though...
Heh. I wondered if Eccleston was going to move to LA and do the Hollywood thing like Clive Owen is.
Sherminator
06-10-2006, 10:13 PM
I liked the Dalek Emperor/God, but jeez their ships looked 'Mars Attacks!' cheesy!I got that too. I was almost expecting a robot Slim Whitman to appear and save the day singing "Indian Love Call".
I liked the Dalek Emperor/God, but jeez their ships looked 'Mars Attacks!' cheesy!
The ships were a very slight update of the Dalek ship design from the original series. The nostalgia factor is somewhat lost on us in the states.
Perhaps that is why the show hasn't pushed itself above a cult status.
"Doctor Who" is a niche within a niche (in the US). Not only does it have the "issue" of being Science Fiction, the accents peg it to the mainstream as "that cute little British show."
It should be noted that in England, to the audience it is made for and targeted at, Doctor Who is currently one of the most popular programs on the air. It could be argued the original run did better than Star Trek did in this country.
Heh. I wondered if Eccleston was going to move to LA and do the Hollywood thing like Clive Owen is.
Probably not. He seems happy being primarily based in England. He is attached to the remake of "The Prisoner." He was involved with a stage "reimagining" of Romeo and Juliet three or so weeks back.
Rosincrans
06-11-2006, 01:09 AM
It's a double edged sword when it comes to modernizing a show that started so long ago. Some of the old villains do look cheesy to the modern audience, but if you change them too much you risk alienating the fans who truly love the show. For those who have tried it, there are successes (Battlestar Galactica) and utter failures (Godzilla),
Personally the Daleks and their ships I think are still pretty cool. But I think the Cybermen would need a major upgrade if they planned to bring them back.
murgatroyd
06-11-2006, 01:37 AM
What gets me is that presumably the Doctor could have used the vortex himself, at the same cost of one regeneration. He was going to "die" anyway with his Delta Wave plan, plus a lot more people would have died as well. Using the vortex would have prevented all that, and he wouldn't have had to send Rose away either.
Yes, but he also says that it was too dangerous to risk the TARDIS falling into the hands of the Daleks. So -- presumably -- that's why he didn't use the vortex himself.
If something went wrong, then both Rose and the TARDIS would have been left vulnerable.
Jan
Guindalf
06-11-2006, 07:54 AM
It's a double edged sword when it comes to modernizing a show that started so long ago. Some of the old villains do look cheesy to the modern audience, but if you change them too much you risk alienating the fans who truly love the show. For those who have tried it, there are successes (Battlestar Galactica) and utter failures (Godzilla),
Personally the Daleks and their ships I think are still pretty cool. But I think the Cybermen would need a major upgrade if they planned to bring them back.
Wait and see - I'll say no more :D
JimSpence
06-11-2006, 09:22 AM
Wait and see - I'll say no more :D
You've been cheating. :)
Episodes 5 and 6 of 2006 season.
cheerdude
06-11-2006, 09:37 AM
Have any of the other questions brought up about Rose or Jack's status get brought up in Season 2?
I've got them BT'd (including the Christmas Invasion), but, obviously, haven't watched them yet.
Personally the Daleks and their ships I think are still pretty cool. But I think the Cybermen would need a major upgrade if they planned to bring them back.
Of course, the Cybermen changed appearance almost every time they showed up in the old series...
Rosincrans
06-11-2006, 12:25 PM
Of course, the Cybermen changed appearance in almost every appearance in the old series...
Really? Guess I was just too young to notice. I just rewatched The Five Doctors recently and was apalled at how cheesy they looked in that.
Really? Guess I was just too young to notice. I just rewatched The Five Doctors recently and was apalled at how cheesy they looked in that.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/classic/gallery/images/1024/cybermen.html
busyba
06-11-2006, 03:59 PM
In case there was any doubt as to whether or not Capt. Jack was gay, he strikes this pose:
http://img469.imageshack.us/img469/1244/captjack0qd.jpg
:eek: :D
The only thing missing was a candleabra on the TARDIS console. ;)
Rosincrans
06-11-2006, 08:43 PM
The only thing missing was a candleabra on the TARDIS console. ;)
And possibly a Frankie Say Relax T-shirt. :D
Big_Daddy
06-12-2006, 08:09 AM
Great episode, and a nice way to tie up the season.
Even if the writers did take "deus ex machina" a bit too literally.
doom1701
06-12-2006, 08:45 AM
Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't buy the "Bad Wolf" Thing. Seems like we were discussing this a few episodes ago, and "Bad Wolf" was still being pondered by people watching season 2. Not to mention the obvious paradox.
My wife swears she won't watch the new Doctor, and I might agree. Deus Ex Machina seems to be the standard plotline, and it's getting a little old.
JimSpence
06-12-2006, 01:17 PM
Don't give up on the new doctor. He's works into the role quite well.
I've seen 9 episodes from season 2 (2006).
Rob Helmerichs
06-12-2006, 02:22 PM
Don't give up on the new doctor. He's works into the role quite well.
I've seen 9 episodes from season 2 (2006).
Me too. I've come to like him a lot, almost as much as Eccleston (and his chemistry with Piper is much better).
But he took some getting used to--and I'm used to new Doctors from the old days.
NJChris
06-12-2006, 02:55 PM
I had seen this a while ago (torrent), and watched it again. I really liked it. Rose turning all powerful reminded me of the end of the buffy season where she became all of the past slayers combined.
Anyway... I seem to be in the minority here... I don't feel the need to pick apart every detail. I don't need EVERYTHING explained - such as why rose didn't die too. Maybe the doctor fixed her before sending back the vortex... he did say she needed the doctor. :)
I liked the bad wolf msg. It just tied much of the season together in a way.
Oh well. Anyway - took a few episodes to get used to the new doc, but I really like him in the role.
TreborPugly
06-12-2006, 02:56 PM
I think that they are suffering from the "always bigger, always badder" problem that develops with long running stories. They are trying to make the conflicts significant in comparison to all the adventures the Doctor has had before. But I think the writers are too interested in bringing things to amazing peaks. If I recall correctly, the Dr. Who Movie relied on the Tardis having some overwhelming powers. And then there's the whole "time war, all the time lords but the Doctor gone," thing they decided to just throw into the back story since the last Doctor. Crazy stuff.
I would love for them to get more episodic, and keep the mystical heart of the Tardis out of it for a while.
ArcticZ
06-12-2006, 02:57 PM
Don't give up on the new doctor. He's works into the role quite well.
I've seen 9 episodes from season 2 (2006).
I"ve seen three of the new season 2 shows, and i guess i'll take a bit to get use to the new doctor. I mean he's alright, he just dose't have the same querks as the season 1 doctor. When the season 1 doctor looked at rose or the camera and just smiled, and he says his bit, it was funny or right for the character. The new doctor dosen't seem to joke around or say useless bits of info. But he's alright i'll have to watch more to see if he grows on me.
TonyD79
06-12-2006, 03:54 PM
I know that this whole regeneration of the Doctor thing is a big part of the mythos, but it does require a great amount of trust between the producers and the fans. Perhaps that is why the show hasn't pushed itself above a cult status.
Cult status?
What a Sci-Fi Channel, American-viewpoint tunnel vision comment that is.
Doctor Who was HUUUUUGE in England in its initial run. A cult status show does not go on for over 20 years in its first run and spawn hundreds of magazines and about as many books.
It may seem cult-like in the US but that was because the distribution in the US was pretty spotty, as is just about every British show.
darthrsg
06-12-2006, 07:45 PM
Cult status?
What a Sci-Fi Channel, American-viewpoint tunnel vision comment that is.
Dead on bro. Most folks nit-picking the Doctor are usually riders of the bandwagon.
Stormspace
06-13-2006, 01:18 PM
Cult status?
What a Sci-Fi Channel, American-viewpoint tunnel vision comment that is.
Doctor Who was HUUUUUGE in England in its initial run. A cult status show does not go on for over 20 years in its first run and spawn hundreds of magazines and about as many books.
It may seem cult-like in the US but that was because the distribution in the US was pretty spotty, as is just about every British show.
Maybe if the production values of the original was a little better than today's power rangers it would have done better in the US. :) As it was British viewers were used to the sort of second rate show with a highly original and interesting storyline. Not to mention the original was designed for the same market as the aforementioned Power Rangers. Story was always good, but the show wasn't good enough for mainstream America which is where it gained popularity in the US as a cult classic. Now if there had been an outlet as cool as the scifi channel.... :)
I love the new treatment of the series and wish that they'd have redone a few of the earlier episodes to see some of the cool effects that can now be used.
Rob Helmerichs
06-13-2006, 01:40 PM
Of course, Doctor Who came along slightly more than 30 years BEFORE Power Rangers, so you can't blame it for not being up to 90s standards for production values. And the BBC's budget increases did not keep up with inflation, so effectively the show had to be done a little cheaper each year--a major problem for a show that managed to last 26 years!
When Doctor Who was in its heyday (the 70s), the American television landscape was vastly different than recent years, and there was very little opportunity for any non-US network show to be more than a cult show. Not only was there no internet to download shows, there was no satellite and no cable, and very few independent stations.
Stormspace
06-13-2006, 02:31 PM
Of course, Doctor Who came along slightly more than 30 years BEFORE Power Rangers, so you can't blame it for not being up to 90s standards for production values. And the BBC's budget increases did not keep up with inflation, so effectively the show had to be done a little cheaper each year--a major problem for a show that managed to last 26 years!
When Doctor Who was in its heyday (the 70s), the American television landscape was vastly different than recent years, and there was very little opportunity for any non-US network show to be more than a cult show. Not only was there no internet to download shows, there was no satellite and no cable, and very few independent stations.
Except for some minor effects, power rangers could have been done 30 years ago with men in rubber suits. Anyone remember Ultraman? Another kids show on the air about the same time as Doctor Who that was much better in terms of effects, though the storyline wasn't as strong. If the BBC was run the way our own television networks run we'd never have had Doctor Who and unfortunately that is all about politics as I believe the BBC is state run.
One thing worth noting however is that BBC shows saw quite a bit of airtime on public television here in the US during those years.
TAsunder
06-13-2006, 02:58 PM
There were some unbelievably awful shows on from the 60s-80s. I think Doctor Who would be among the better shows compared to those. I don't remember lost in space being all that impressive in terms of effects either, BTW.
Stormspace
06-13-2006, 03:06 PM
There were some unbelievably awful shows on from the 60s-80s. I think Doctor Who would be among the better shows compared to those. I don't remember lost in space being all that impressive in terms of effects either, BTW.
Yes, but Lost in Space had Penny. :rolleyes: But even so, the effects were better. Doctor Who's strength was the story, not the effects. Unfortunately visual elements are generally where a person's first impressions are made and even more so in the US during the shows run. Doctor Who was the cheesy show that came on PBS at odd and unpublished hours. At least in my area during the early and mid 70's before cable.
Rob Helmerichs
06-13-2006, 03:39 PM
Doctor Who was the cheesy show that came on PBS at odd and unpublished hours.
And I think the latter was a much bigger obstacle to getting past cult status than the former.
Stormspace
06-13-2006, 04:01 PM
And I think the latter was a much bigger obstacle to getting past cult status than the former.
I agree. I know as a youngster I tried my best to find it, but didn't have the resources or knowledge to do so. I would catch it at odd times and it didn't seem to run at the same time every week. Not to mention, only one set in the house. Saturday mornings were mine, but other times it was everyone elses.
Rob Helmerichs
06-13-2006, 04:15 PM
If it had been on every Saturday morning from the beginning on one of the Big Three networks, I think it would have had the opportunity to be huge in the US. It's cheesiness would even have been a selling point for kids in the 60s and 70s. It was far more sophisticated than the home-grown children's programming of the era, and I think it could very well have found a home. And, as we got older, there were certainly more layers to be discovered, especially in the Tom Baker era and beyond, when it started addressing adults as well as kids could easily have become the multi-generational show here that it was over there.
Fleegle
06-13-2006, 04:50 PM
Yes, but Lost in Space had Penny. :rolleyes: But even so, the effects were better.
You really want to stand by that statement?
http://www.tvacres.com/images/tybo2.jpg
Stormspace
06-13-2006, 04:57 PM
You really want to stand by that statement?
http://www.tvacres.com/images/tybo2.jpg
At the time I thought Penny was a hottie. As for the effects I do believe they were better on average, the same at worst.
Rosincrans
06-13-2006, 08:39 PM
If it had been on every Saturday morning from the beginning on one of the Big Three networks, I think it would have had the opportunity to be huge in the US.
I totally agree. I remember staying up late on Saturday nights to watch the show on PBS, half the time falling asleep before it was over. And if there was a pledge drive, forget about it. I think it might have actually been the first thing I ever recorded when I got a VCR (besides test runs).
darthrsg
06-13-2006, 10:13 PM
We were fortunate I guess, our PBS showed it opposite the evening news from the big 3. On saturdays they would show all of the weeks episodes back to back. It disappeared without a trace and I searched for years as to why, then came Internet. Oh yeah, fat chance beating the parentals to the tv to watch that "stupid space show" instead of Tom Brokaw. Ah, the good ole days with only 4 channels pulled in via aluminum foil coathanger series 1.
betts4
06-13-2006, 11:21 PM
Don't give up on the new doctor. He's works into the role quite well.
I've seen 9 episodes from season 2 (2006).
I am happy to hear that. I am so much missing Michael and he is just gone. I just watched the final episode and even though I knew what was going to happen, I didn't want it to.
I was glad Jack is alive and well and being his true bisexual self. I say he just loves everyone and that makes it easier. The kiss with Rose and the Doctor was absolutely perfect!!!
I have friend that has season two and we will be watching it this summer. I need some time to let the new Doctor grow on me.
alyssa
06-13-2006, 11:53 PM
In season 2, do they touch on Capt. Jack at all?
It seems a little on the rude side to just leave him there.
Mike Farrington
06-14-2006, 12:49 AM
In season 2, do they touch on Capt. Jack at all?
It seems a little on the rude side to just leave him there.
After 10 episodes, still no direct mention of Jack. But they won't shut the hell up about Torchwood.
Big_Daddy
06-14-2006, 09:16 AM
In season 2, do they touch on Capt. Jack at all?
It seems a little on the rude side to just leave him there.
In their defense...
The Doctor was dying
Rose was unconscious
And they likely thought Jack was dead anyway - the Doctor didn't know Rose resurrected him, and she didn't remember
Rob Helmerichs
06-14-2006, 09:51 AM
And they may be saving Jack for his spin-off show, Torchwood...
ArcticZ
06-14-2006, 04:50 PM
And they may be saving Jack for his spin-off show, Torchwood...
yes it looks like capt jack is getting his own show it looks like.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/news/cult/news/drwho/2005/10/17/25634.shtml
but there are spoilers on that page about season 2 and stuff so beware!!
and just incase anybody else dosen't know about the Dr. Who web site here it is:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/
but ware of spoilers on that site about season 2, because its a uk site, and season 2 is playing now.
betts4
06-14-2006, 04:58 PM
In season 2, do they touch on Capt. Jack at all?
It seems a little on the rude side to just leave him there.
I sure wouldn't mind Touching on Captain Jack! ;)
gchance
06-14-2006, 05:21 PM
I sure wouldn't mind Touching on Captain Jack! ;)
Would that be like touching Bellini?
http://members.aol.com/MrTisane/touchb_1.jpg
Greg
Guindalf
06-14-2006, 06:12 PM
I sure wouldn't mind Touching on Captain Jack! ;)
Down, Bettsy! Woah girl!! :)
I just finished watching season 1 (or should I say, season 27 ;)) on DVD and I was pretty impressed. Well done. I really came to like this incarnation, I wish he could have stayed on a bit longer.
It's funny, in the DVDs, there is an interview with him where they ask him how long he would like to play the Doctor, and he totally dodges the question. Was it not known before the last episode aired that he would be leaving?
Rob Helmerichs
08-10-2006, 05:56 PM
It's funny, in the DVDs, there is an interview with him where they ask him how long he would like to play the Doctor, and he totally dodges the question. Was it not known before the last episode aired that he would be leaving?
It was known before the first episode aired, or filmed for that matter, but they tried (unsuccessfully) to keep it a secret. He only signed on for one season, and apparently they already had Tennant lined up to replace him (being, story goes, the producers' original choice, only to be overruled by the BBC who wanted to launch with a bigger name).
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