Well I'm finally gonna do it...

[TiVo_Fanatic]

I'm finally gonna break down and buy an HD TV , nothing exensive or fancy just an HD ready TV from sears for like $4 - $500 bucks... I was gonna get an S3 just to use like the new DT's but with the ability to tune digital channels but I figure if I can get a 27" HD TV for $4 - $500 bucks then I may as well get it so th TiVo will have an HD companion... hope the HD TV's are all everyone makes em out to be... good thing is it will be the same size as the TV I have now so it will fit on my stand just fine ;-)

[Dan203]

Be careful. A 27" widescreen TV will be considerably smaller then a 27" 4:3 TV. In fact you'll need to get a 33" widescreen TV to have the same screen height as your current 27" TV. Also I wouldn't recommend a 4:3 HDTV. HDTV is all broadcast in widescreen format, so if you buy a 4:3 set you'll end up with all your shows being played in letterbox like a DVD.

I'd say measure your cabinet and see what the largest widescreen HDTV you can fit. If it's not at least 33" then figure the price of a new cabinet into this upgrade.

Dan

[terryfoster]

I'm sure your HDTV will provide a very pretty picture and definitely a better picture than your old TV, but stunning results are found in larger sets. To get the full benefit of your 27" HDTV you will need to sit no farther than about 9 feet away. The trick is your eye is only able to see a certain amount of detail the further away from the object it is and so the further you are from the 27" picture the less detail you will see.

Trust me, I've been there.
(27" HDTV upgraded to 46" HDTV)

[TiVo_Fanatic]

The largest TV I can fit in the stand would have to be no bigger than 31W x 25H... given room space I couldnt get a bigger stand even if I wanted to... so I'll probably have to settle for a 30" if they even make em in that size or not get an HDTV at all... decisions , decisions , decisions...

[terryfoster]

They do make 30" 16:9 HDTVs. You may have a hard time with the 31"W limitation of your cabinet.

[painkiller]

It may cost more than what you posted, but the Samsung Slim-Fit (at Sears, Best Buy, Circuit City now) is a 30" widescreen true HDTV CRT (meaning 1920x1080).

When it first came out it was just under $1,000. Might be lower in price by now.

See if that interests you.

[Dan203]

BestBuy and Circuit City both have the Samsung 30" Slim-Fit TX-S3082WH for $749. Amazon.com has it for $699 with free shipping and no sales tax.

However based on the specifications on Samsung's website it's 35.8" wide so it wont fit in his cabinet. :( He needs one with the speakers on the bottom instead of the sides, so it's not so wide.

Dan

[ZeoTiVo]

The largest TV I can fit in the stand would have to be no bigger than 31W x 25H... given room space I couldnt get a bigger stand even if I wanted to... so I'll probably have to settle for a 30" if they even make em in that size or not get an HDTV at all... decisions , decisions , decisions...


I am in the same situation and went for a SD TV that was 30" for like 400$
it was Toshiba, forget the model number at the moment.

when I go HDTV I will look at DLP/LCD flat that I can hang on the wall instead and change out for a small cabinet for the AV equipment. No idea if any wall hung TV fits your budegt though.

[alansplace]

The largest TV I can fit in the stand would have to be no bigger than 31W x 25H... given room space I couldnt get a bigger stand even if I wanted to... so I'll probably have to settle for a 30" if they even make em in that size or not get an HDTV at all... decisions , decisions , decisions...my local super walmart carries a phillips 30" 16x9 tube type hdtv (http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=4810693) for $526, but i believe that because the speakers are full height and are located on the left and right of the viewing area, it'll probably be too wide for your present cabinet.
--
Alan :D

[atmuscarella]

I would consider replacing your stand with a shorter one that the TV can sit on the top of - if you look at the size of the base on most LCD TVs they are smaller than an old 19 inch TV. Just center the LCD TV on a shorter and smaller stand and you are good to go (if you have kids you might want to bolt in down). You can find nice 32" ones at walmart for under $900 that have a digital tuner built in. If this is your primary TV and you can wait my guess is there will be 37 inch ones in this price range by late fall early winter if the downward price trends keep up.

Good Luck,

atmuscarella

[phox_mulder]

BestBuy and Circuit City both have the Samsung 30" Slim-Fit TX-S3082WH for $749. Amazon.com has it for $699 with free shipping and no sales tax.

However based on the specifications on Samsung's website it's 35.8" wide so it wont fit in his cabinet. :( He needs one with the speakers on the bottom instead of the sides, so it's not so wide.

Dan

If he can find the Samsung listed in my sig,
it's the only one I think they made with the speakers on the bottom.
As it is last years model, it might be hard to scare one up.

It is 31-3/8" wide.
Little persuasion on the sides of the cabinet, maybe a little vaseline, it'll slip right in.


phox

[TiVo_Fanatic]

If he can find the Samsung listed in my sig,
it's the only one I think they made with the speakers on the bottom.
As it is last years model, it might be hard to scare one up.

It is 31-3/8" wide.
Little persuasion on the sides of the cabinet, maybe a little vaseline, it'll slip right in.


phoxThe 31 wide isnt the true size i gavemyself some lead way on the size to be able to slide it so the tv you specified should work I think... I'll check it out and let you know whats up... first I need the cash but assuming thats the true width it will fit just fine... I just hope the height is ok for the stand... also how would the pic on it be... someone made a comment on the 27 in and something about leterboxe's... i dont wana pend 6 - 700 bucks on a TV and have a weird azz picture...

[phox_mulder]

Dimensions are thus:
23-1/8" tall
31-3/8" wide
16-3/8" deep (hence the slimfit monikor, same size Sony is 22" deep)
119.1 lbs (same size Sony was 167 lbs)

Standard Definition content, I.E. what a standard TiVo puts out doesn't look all that great.
You get used to it eventually until you watch true High Definition content,
then you have to go throught the getting used to it again.

I've found that if it is a letterboxed show (ER springs to mind) it doesn't look all that bad zoomed to full screen, but if it isn't letterboxed (Lost springs to mind), zooming doesn't work, you end up with tall skinny people, or chopped off heads.

Eventually all will be HD or at least Digital, so it will get better.

It is a pretty good option for those space limited as well as cash limited.
The fact that it is a CRT instead of LCD, it is less succeptable to "pixelating" or "blockiness" during fast motion scenes.

I thought Samsung was going to be releasing two new Slimfit models, the current one with the speakers on the side, and one to replace the model I got, with the speakers on the bottom.
The 3082 is the newer model replacing the 3079,
which had speakers on the sides, and horrible geometry/bowing problems.
There was supposed to be either a 3081 or 3083 with speakers on the bottom,
but it is vaporware I guess.


phox

[TiVo_Fanatic]

you end up with tall skinny people, or chopped off heads.
Thats the thing I wouldnt want either one heh... both would just look to weird lol...

[Dan203]

In that case then you can just watch it in standard mode, which does sort of a reverse letterbox with black bars down the sides and the 4:3 picture centered on the screen. In this situation a 30" widescreen TV would be equivelent to a 24" 4:3 TV. I watch all SD content this way on my widescreen TV and it doesn't bother me at all.

Dan

[phox_mulder]

In that case then you can just watch it in standard mode, which does sort of a reverse letterbox with black bars down the sides and the 4:3 picture centered on the screen. In this situation a 30" widescreen TV would be equivelent to a 24" 4:3 TV. I watch all SD content this way on my widescreen TV and it doesn't bother me at all.

Dan

That's what I do, and after a few minutes of watching, you don't even notice the unused screen on the sides,
unless the original content is letterboxed, then I'll use the zoom feature on the TV to fill the screen and everybody is still properly proportioned.

I don't know why I picked ER as an example, as I dont' watch it, but Rescue Me is another good example,
as I'm watching right now zoomed and it looks great.
If it wasn't for the FX bug trailing off the edge of the screen, you wouldn't even know it was zoomed.

When DVD's first came out, I couldn't stand letterbox so I only rented fullscreen DVD's.
Now I don't see why they even bother releasing full screen versions, you lose so much of the picture that way, I don't even notice the black bars on letterbox anymore.


phox

[mattack]

I'm finally gonna break down and buy an HD TV , nothing exensive or fancy just an HD ready TV from sears for like $4 - $500 bucks...

Ok, I'm almost positive you know this (especially with the price you mention), but just to be certain..

"HD ready" is basically meaningless. You should really get a set with an HD tuner (ATSC) built in, so you won't need to deal with an extra box. Even if you're just going to watch Tivo recordings mostly -- wouldn't you want the ability to watch HD shows live once in a while? If the tuner can do QAM, you'll even get HD signals over cable for no extra charge (just like "broadcast" networks on cable).

(This is from someone who just has an old 27" Sony from probably 15 years ago.. It was like $500 at the time, which was a pretty good deal at the time... and I noticed some noises last night.. hope it's not dying.. if it is, I guess I'm in the market for a new HDTV too..)

[Dan203]

My TV doesn't have an HDTV tuner and I've never missed it. I've had a Moxi HD DVR from Charter since the day I bought the TV and simply record everything in HD on that. If for some reason I have a conflict I simply put it on one of the TiVos in SD. In fact I haven't watched live TV in many years. (been a TiVo user now for over 6 years, haven't watched live TV in at least 5)

Dan

[skanter]

To get the full benefit of your 27" HDTV you will need to sit no farther than about 9 feet away.

How did you come up with this 9 foot maximum distance figure? Seems way off according to all screen size/viewing distance figures I've seen.

[HTH]

Be careful. A 27" widescreen TV will be considerably smaller then a 27" 4:3 TV. In fact you'll need to get a 33" widescreen TV to have the same screen height as your current 27" TV.
Indeed. I'm also considering a new widescreen HDTV to replace my 32" set. I'll need to get at least a 40" widescreen to not have my SD content reduced in size. For where I'm installing it, the biggest would be a 48" widescreen, considering minimal casing. I'm also quite picky about the inputs: I want everything from HDMI (preferably multiple), Componet (legacy DVD), S-Video (TiVo), Composite (some game systems), RF (PIP tuning), and IEEE 1394 for output from Final Cut Studio (only Sonys and Mitsubishis can you expect it to be there, and I don't know how they use it, capabilities, etc.).

Also I wouldn't recommend a 4:3 HDTV. HDTV is all broadcast in widescreen format, so if you buy a 4:3 set you'll end up with all your shows being played in letterbox like a DVD.
The 32" set I'm replacing is a 4:3 HDTV, and I can say that HD content is annoyingly not letterboxed. It instead distorts the image to fill the screen. I bought an external tuner for it hoping that it would do the letterboxing for me, and it reiterated that 4:3 HDTVs will not letterbox 1080i video. (I've tried configuring my HD cable box to limit resolutions it will output, and my HDTV chokes on 720p, will only display 480i, 480p, and 1080i.)

If only I could configure the HD cable box's downconversion to SD to output full screen instead of grey-bar letterboxing; then it would be a lot better for capture and save as anamorphic DVDs.

[jlb]

How did you come up with this 9 foot maximum distance figure? Seems way off according to all screen size/viewing distance figures I've seen.

Agreed. Having worked in a HT store on the side a few years back, IIRC, the base distance is (Width x 2) + 10 inches. Now, this is just a starting point and many people will like to be closer or further awat, depending on their eyes and general comfort level.

I have an analog Sony 27inch purchased in 1998 (please die, please die......... ;) ). In our prior house, we were about 10 feet+ away....way too far.....
In our current house, we're about 7 tops. Much better. And this closer distance is what is allowing me to ride the price reductions, see what happens with S3 and $, ComcasTiVo, etc. Of course, if said TV dies, I'll shop for a 32inch HDTV very fast...........

And for the benefit of the OP and anyone else, I always keep a "Favorites" link to the following site for comparing 16x9 and 4x3 TV sizes. Very useful!

http://www.cavecreations.com/tv2.cgi

[Stu_Bee]

In that case then you can just watch it in standard mode, which does sort of a reverse letterbox with black bars down the sides and the 4:3 picture centered on the screen. I watch all SD content this way on my widescreen TV and it doesn't bother me at all.
Dan

Different TV's have different features. I use the "JUSTify" setting on my WideScreen Panasonic, and what that does is stretch the 4:3 image to fill the 16:9 screen......but in the middle area of the screen is less stretched than the sides. The concept here is that is where most of the action/eye focus (and faces) occur.
Works pretty good for me viewing 4:3.

[terryfoster]

How did you come up with this 9 foot maximum distance figure? Seems way off according to all screen size/viewing distance figures I've seen.

You're right, I read off the incorrect distance. The 9 foot is most likely related to watching SDTV.

The correct viewing distance for a fully resolved 1080i image is 3.2 feet.

http://www.myhometheater.homestead.com/viewingdistancecalculator.html

[terryfoster]

The 32" set I'm replacing is a 4:3 HDTV, and I can say that HD content is annoyingly not letterboxed. It instead distorts the image to fill the screen.

What is the make and model of that HDTV? My Zenith didn't have this problem and I haven't heard of Sony 4:3 HDTVs doing that either. So, this is not typical performance of a 4:3 HDTV.

[BillyT2002]

I cannot recommend the Sony KD34XBR960 enough. It is the best television I have ever owned. I love the thing, as much (if not a little more) than the wife. ;)

[HTH]

What is the make and model of that HDTV?
It's an RCA MM32110. The external HD antenna tuner is also from RCA.

[Dan203]

Indeed. I'm also considering a new widescreen HDTV to replace my 32" set. I'll need to get at least a 40" widescreen to not have my SD content reduced in size. For where I'm installing it, the biggest would be a 48" widescreen, considering minimal casing. I'm also quite picky about the inputs: I want everything from HDMI (preferably multiple), Componet (legacy DVD), S-Video (TiVo), Composite (some game systems), RF (PIP tuning), and IEEE 1394 for output from Final Cut Studio (only Sonys and Mitsubishis can you expect it to be there, and I don't know how they use it, capabilities, etc.).

I'm not 100% sure about Final Cut Studio, but when Adobe Premiere outputs it's "realtime playback" to IEEE 1394 it's in DV format which is NOT what those TVs are looking for. The firewire input on those TVs are looking for MPEG-2 output from devices like DVHS recorders and HD-STBs. For converting from DV to your TV you'll need a device like the Canopus ADVC110.

Also if you play a lot of video games you should probably stay away from digital technologies like DLP and LCD. The reason is that these sets have a static number of pixels on their display, and as such they must up sample all non-native resolution content. That conversion can cause a slight lag in the time between when the video is received and when it is actually displayed. Which for video games can cause a delay between when you push a button and when actually see the action on the screen.

The 32" set I'm replacing is a 4:3 HDTV, and I can say that HD content is annoyingly not letterboxed. It instead distorts the image to fill the screen. I bought an external tuner for it hoping that it would do the letterboxing for me, and it reiterated that 4:3 HDTVs will not letterbox 1080i video. (I've tried configuring my HD cable box to limit resolutions it will output, and my HDTV chokes on 720p, will only display 480i, 480p, and 1080i.)

That's weird. All the 4:3 HDTV sets I've seen put HDTV into a letterbox. I've never seen one that forced you to use full screen mode.

Dan

[terryfoster]

Also if you play a lot of video games you should probably stay away from digital technologies like DLP and LCD. The reason is that these sets have a static number of pixels on their display, and as such they must up sample all non-native resolution content. That conversion can cause a slight lag in the time between when the video is received and when it is actually displayed. Which for video games can cause a delay between when you push a button and when actually see the action on the screen.

What you have said is true of all HDTVs. Almost every HDTV (very, very few exceptions) have only one native resolution 720p, 1080i, 1080p. It needs to scale the inputted video to match the native resolution of the display. Now some do this better than others. Samsung's DLPs have been noted as being bad, but their more recent product lines have resolve this issue (and my HLR4667W works great). So, do a specific search on the particular model you are looking to buy to see how well it performs for games.

[terryfoster]

It's an RCA MM32110. The external HD antenna tuner is also from RCA.

Ahh, that seems to be the culprit. The MM32110 is a very early model HDTV from RCA. It seems the only way to correct the aspect ratio is through a service menu. This is certainly not typical of new model 4:3 HDTVs.

http://www.digitalhomecanada.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1155

[Dan203]

What you have said is true of all HDTVs. Almost every HDTV (very, very few exceptions) have only one native resolution 720p, 1080i, 1080p. It needs to scale the inputted video to match the native resolution of the display. Now some do this better than others. Samsung's DLPs have been noted as being bad, but their more recent product lines have resolve this issue (and my HLR4667W works great). So, do a specific search on the particular model you are looking to buy to see how well it performs for games.

Ahhh... I had read about this when I bought my Samsung DLP but I had always assumed it applied to all digital HDTVs. (analog CRTs do not have a "native" resolution, so I assumed they were best for games)

Dan

[coolbreeze]

Negotiate with Sears with this price (or lower) in mind.

42" Sony HDTV. Get one, you won't be sorry. Read over my thread for more details. I couldn't be happier.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=301866