Talked to a COX Cable tech on TiVo today...

[Prowest]

FYI to all…I had a COX cable tech come out to my place to fix my cable (those damn squirrels chewing my cable again… :D ). I asked him about CoX Cable and TiVo and he said that he heard from headquarters that they are looking at TiVo, but that they are also looking at a lot of stuff for the Next Gen HD DVR technology and that it will probably not come out with something new until the Cablecard 2.0 spec has been established. A lot of this is already understood on the board, but I thought I’d try to solidify some of the rumors with feedback from someone on the inside…so to speak.

[jfh3]

Take that with a large grain of salt. I can't imagine Cox is going to sit on its' hands for that long - it'll be a good couple years before the CC 2.0 standard is established.

[mick66]

So, Cox is looking at many options right now and Tivo is but one of those many options.

Uhm, thanks for the inside scoop.

[TiVo_Fanatic]

Uhm, thanks for the inside scoop.
Uhm, its the thought that counts ;-)

[ZeoTiVo]

Take that with a large grain of salt. I can't imagine Cox is going to sit on its' hands for that long - it'll be a good couple years before the CC 2.0 standard is established.

if COX has an HD DVR now then it makes good business sense to just use it until the Cable Card interactive negoatiations is resolved into a standard. sure it will take some years but since a DVR is not COX's main business then they can wait.

and the OP stated he knew the board had some threads on this already. he was just posting some more info on it to add to the overall picture.

give the OP a break, it was a good post

[ChuckyBox]

I asked him about CoX Cable and TiVo and he said that he heard from headquarters that they are looking at TiVo, but that they are also looking at a lot of stuff for the Next Gen HD DVR technology and that it will probably not come out with something new until the Cablecard 2.0 spec has been established.
I'm not sure why Cox would wait on the CC2 spec for their own deployments. As I understand it, CC is being imposed to allow CE manufacturers to build devices that give consumers the choice to use something other than cable company supplied equipment -- which will cause the cable companies to lose control of their subscribers. I would think Cox would want to get as much functionality out to their subs as possible before CableCARD has a chance to take hold.

[Dan203]

I bet they're just waiting to see how well the Comcast/TiVo deal works out before jumping on board. If it turns out to be a big hit they'll probably ink a deal with TiVo ASAP. If it turns out to be hohum then they'll probably just stick with their current DVR software and wait for CC2.0 when they're forced to look at new equipment.

Dan

[ZeoTiVo]

I bet they're just waiting to see how well the Comcast/TiVo deal works out before jumping on board. If it turns out to be a big hit they'll probably ink a deal with TiVo ASAP. If it turns out to be hohum then they'll probably just stick with their current DVR software and wait for CC2.0 when they're forced to look at new equipment.

Dan


good point and I imagine they are also looking to see what fallout there is from the Echostar infringement judgement as well.

[ChuckyBox]

I bet they're just waiting to see how well the Comcast/TiVo deal works out before jumping on board. If it turns out to be a big hit they'll probably ink a deal with TiVo ASAP. If it turns out to be hohum then they'll probably just stick with their current DVR software and wait for CC2.0 when they're forced to look at new equipment.

If they wait for Comcast/TiVo to be a hit, the price will go up. If they don't sign with TiVo, they are going to get sued. Signing now would get them the cheapest deal they are going to get without gambling on some sort of divine intervention from the Patent Office, the courts, or Congress.

[Dan203]

They won't get sued. Whoever provides their current DVR might (i.e. Motorola, SA, etc...) but I'm not sure that's incentive to them to sign a deal with TiVo.

As for the cheaper price... That could very well be true, but most big companies aren't proactive enough to look at that as an incentive to get in quick. They'd rather make sure it's a stable platform and a viable option before signing a deal, even if it does cost them a little more.

Dan

[jfh3]

If they wait for Comcast/TiVo to be a hit, the price will go up. If they don't sign with TiVo, they are going to get sued. Signing now would get them the cheapest deal they are going to get without gambling on some sort of divine intervention from the Patent Office, the courts, or Congress.


All good points, except I think Tivo would sue Motorola and the manufacturers before they would sue an MSO.

I don't know what Cox is going to do (obviously), my only point is that whatever it is, they can't afford to wait until there is a CC 2.0 standard.

[mbalgeman]

All good points, except I think Tivo would sue Motorola and the manufacturers before they would sue an MSO.Motorola doesn't supply any DVR software, only hardware. So sueing Motorola won't do you any good.

[Dan203]

Wern't some of the patents that Dish was found infringing on hardware patentents? I thought the main one, the barton system, was a hardware patent that covered a way to use low powered components in unison to get DVR functionality without the need for a high powered, full featured, CPU.

Dan

[jfh3]

Wern't some of the patents that Dish was found infringing on hardware patentents? I thought the main one, the barton system, was a hardware patent that covered a way to use low powered components in unison to get DVR functionality without the need for a high powered, full featured, CPU.

Yes, but it also appears that some (all?) of the hardware-based claims at issue in the trial were ones that the USPO did not uphold (or whatever the proper term is).

[mick66]

Uhm, its the thought that counts ;-)
You are absolutely right, but I couldn't find any.

[gonzotek]

You are absolutely right, but I couldn't find any....but I thought I’d try...:p ;)

[johnd7]

I just wish they would support me using HDMI with the Cox HD DVR for now. I have problems with it and they stated they do not support using HDMI though they have enabled it for those that wish to try.

[samo]

Yes, but it also appears that some (all?) of the hardware-based claims at issue in the trial were ones that the USPO did not uphold (or whatever the proper term is).
Yes, USPTO rejected all of the hardware claims (at least ones in a E* trial) and that includes media switch. Software claims were upheld, but if you look into patents that E* claim TiVo is infringing on (trial is scheduled for early next year) - they are software including "trick play" , "buffer" and "season pass" like features.
5,774,186 (
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=5,774,186.PN.&OS=PN/5,774,186&RS=PN/5,774,186)


6,529,685 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=6,529,685.PN.&OS=PN/6,529,685&RS=PN/6,529,685)

6,208,804 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=6,208,804.PN.&OS=PN/6,208,804&RS=PN/6,208,804)

6,173,112 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=6,173,112.PN.&OS=PN/6,173,112&RS=PN/6,173,112)
I don't have an "expert opinion" on validity or applicabiliy of these patents, nor do I care one way or another. That is for TiVo and E* attorneys to fight over. I think that it will be years (if ever) before anybody will have to be afraid of Tivo patents.

[jfh3]

I think that it will be years (if ever) before anybody will have to be afraid of Tivo patents.

Nope, it could be years before the E* trial is resolved (and the E* countersuit is a joke - read the 734 filing from last week. All that's going to do is cost E* more in damages. And then there's always the IBM patents Tivo has rights to :) ), but Tivo has a win on a key patent. Tivo will have an opportunity to convince the USPO why the hardware claims should be upheld, but that's almost immaterial - E* was found to have infringed on the s/w claims as well and since the USPO upheld them, E* is SOL unless it can sucessfully mount an appeal on some reversable error from the first trial.

I'm sure every MSO with a DVR wasn't happy when they heard the Echostar verdict.

[DCIFRTHS]

You are absolutely right, but I couldn't find any.

That's the problem.

[sbrown23]

You are absolutely right, but I couldn't find any.

Wow, what a dick.

[lasergecko]

Cox has already talked with TiVo, many years ago. I believe it was late 1999 or 2000.

TiVo actually had an employee living here in Las Vegas during a "TiVo beta test" in which selected subscribers were issued a TiVo unit for free for six months (?) as long as you agreed to talk with a company rep on the phone up to one time per week about how you were using TiVo and what you liked/disliked about it. A friend of mine received the invite, a coworker sneaked in on the deal by talking to the right people, and ended up getting all three of us confirmed into the program.

I never received a single phone call about it, but TiVo has been an irreplaceable part of our lives ever since. I never could find specifically who was footing the bill for the whole schebang or get much detail beyond it being a joint test between the two companies. Our (upgraded from the original) Series 2 in the bedroom still says "TiVo Evaluation Unit" for the account type.


Cox blew it by going with Scientific Craplanta DVRs instead of TiVo, but hopefully they've learned the error of their ways. They could've been the first several years ahead of Comcast.

Hopefully, someone in Cox is paying attention now.