S2 DT Sound Only in Mono. No Stereo

[Abner]

I recently purchased two new S2 Dual Tuner TiVos. One of them is in my Home Theater directly connected to a Pioneer Elite VSX-09TX receiver using Monster audio and S-Video cables. The cable coax is connected directly into to the Tivo box. I also had an Adelphia cable box, which has now been return, that was also connected to that same receiver via it’s own separate set of inputs jack. The Adelphia DVR and the Tivo box were not connected to each other. I used the TiVo provided signal splitter with one coax connected to the Adelphia DVR and the other to the Tivo. I only use the basic cable channels 1-99. No digital or Premium channels.

Now for my problem. The TiVo box doesn’t play ANY cable channels in Stereo, but the Adelphia box works great. Anything that is recorded, will also only play back in Mono and not Stereo. My receiver is setup to use Dolby Pro Logic for both boxes. With Pro Logic enabled, a Stereo signal will produce sound in the Front Left, Right, Center and also the rear Left and Right speakers. A Mono signal is mostly just sent to the Front Center speaker with a little bit of sound going to the Front Right and Left speakers. So in essence all the Tivo sounds basically come out of only my front center speaker. I get not sound out of my back speakers at all.

This Tivo is also connected via a TiVo Wireless G adapter to my home net work and PC. If I play MP3 music through the Tivo, them stereo works fine and I get sound out of all my speakers. If I restart the TiVo, when it gets to the animated intro, that too, plays in stereo. But nothing that comes through the Tivo tuners is in Stereo. It is always in Mono.

I tried to tweak the setting to see if I could get Stereo. In the audio section, the S2 DT has three options; Stereo. Mono and SAP (If the signal is available). I tried all, and sound was still in mono and only out of my front center speaker. I decided to find a station, using another TV with it’s own tuner, that was broadcasting with an SAP signal. I found a station in SAP and changed the Tivo box to that channel, and changed the audio setting to SAP. Nothing, the Tivo just used the non–SAP signal and still in Mono. No matter what I did, the TiVo is always in Mono.

My second S2 DT Tivo is connected in my bedroom to a TV also using audio and video cables. I tried getting the SAP signal in the TV, and it too could not pickup the SAP signal, so I assume that TiVo also has the same problem. I did not swap the boxes.

Yesterday I called Tivo and got the run around and conflicting responses. Ranging from “Your must have hooked it up the wrong way”, to you can’t get Pro Logic Surround Sound out of a Stereo signal” and several others. I decided to just return the boxes and asked for an RMA number. They talked me out of sending them back by giving me 60 days to return them, instead of the standard 30 day money back guarantee. They said they would also look into this problem. They said that no one else was having this problem, only me. These new S2 DT boxes were just release May 1st, so just because they haven’t gotten any other complaints, doesn’t mean that they do not have a problem.

Today I called TiVo again, just to let them know that besides not getting Stereo, I also didn’t get SAP on stations that were broadcasting SAP. Yesterday, I hadn’t figure out the SAP also didn’t work. They are still saying that they do not think that there is anything wrong with the TiVo boxes. Now they are blaming a weak cable signal, that the signal being weak could be causing the SAP signal to also be missing along with the Stereo signal. They recommended that I try using a signal amplifier. I don’t really think that is the cause of the problem, but I will buy one on the way home tonight and see if that fixes the problem. I will even trying plugging the cable directly into the Tivo, before it gets split to the rest of the house.

Enough typing. Does anyone else have this same problem? If you have the Tivo just connected to a TV, you may not notice that the signal is not in Stereo. Only people that have the Tivo connected through a Dolby Pro Logic receiver with a least five speakers will notice this problem if they have it. The Tivo box does not support Dolby Digital, but it Dolby Pro Logic rides in the same two channels the Stereo uses.

I will let you know if the Signal Amplifier fixes my problem.

[Gospel]

My S2DT was playing in mono when I first set it up. I had to go into Settings -> Audio -> Television Audio. I set it to stereo. Then I went back set it to mono and the back to stereo. It seemd that I needed to do it again for the other tuner. I pressed Live TV again to swtich to the other tuner and went back into Settings like I did befroe. Now, I have stereo sound. I don't know about SAP since I don't use it.

Enjoy life!
Steven

[Dan203]

This problem has been around since original TiVos. The problem is that TiVo uses the MP2 format to encode audio. And unfortunately MP2 compresses audio in such a way that the majority of the data used for ProLogic decoding is lost.

If your Aldephia DVR doesn't have this problem it's probably because it uses AC3 to encode analog audio instead of MP2, and AC3 is much better at maintaining ProLogic data. If this really bothers you, and you really want a TiVo, you should consider a Humax DVD-RW unit. Because of thei DVD recording ability they use AC3 instead of MP2 and should be able to maintain ProLogic better.

Dan

[Gospel]

It not that there wasn't much stereo, there was no stereo at all. My older S2 didn't have this problem. I listen to the audio though my computer. It has a Creative X-Fi sound card. I run the X-Fi in CMSS 3D sound mode that tries to make MP3 and other audio come out on all 5 speakers. With the older S2, I could hear sound from all 5 speakers. When I initially set up the S2DT, sound was only coming out the center speaker and centered behind me. The soundcard does this on true mono sources like audiobooks. After Playing with the stereo/mono settings on the S2DT, I got sound in stereo.

Edit: this was happening for live TV, not just recordings.

Enjoy life,
Steven

[Abner]

Thanks for your replies. I sure hope that I can get stereo to work with the procedure that Gospel used. I would certainly hate if I cannot get Stereo to work. The TiVo in my Home Theater is connected to over $15k of equipment. I could not tolerate listening to TV in Mono and would have to return the S2 DT and go back to the Adelphia DVR. It would certainly be a sad day, since I really love some of the Tivo features.

I was using High Quality mode for recording, which was the default. I'll also try using best and see if that makes a difference. Maybe with a lower compression rate it may help. I will try everything possible, before I return the TiVo. I sure hope it's not the MP2 format problem that Dan203 mentions. That would really be sad :mad:

[Gospel]

Thanks for your replies. I sure hope that I can get stereo to work with the procedure that Gospel used. I would certainly hate if I cannot get Stereo to work. The TiVo in my Home Theater is connected to over $15k of equipment. I could not tolerate listening to TV in Mono and would have to return the S2 DT and go back to the Adelphia DVR. It would certainly be a sad day, since I really love some of the Tivo features.

I seem to never get Dolby Surround with my TiVo at any quality setting but stereo should at least come thoiugh. Now some channels seem to purposely have badly mixed sound like TCM (Turner Classic Movies) especially during their commercial free shows. But for commercial free, I am not complainging about the sound quality.

BTW, Abner, let me know if you have random reboots with the S2DT. I have a thread about this in this help forum and there is a thread in the TiVo Coffee House forum. I found a way to prevent these reboots which is mentined in these threads.

Enjoy life,
Steven

[Dan203]

The TiVo in my Home Theater is connected to over $15k of equipment.

Sounds like you're a candidate for a Series 3 unit. I'd say deal with what you can get for now, then in a few months when the S3 units are available upgrade.

Dan

[Abner]

Dan203: I thought about getting a new S3, but I was told by TiVo that it will be October before they are released. I will consider one after they come out. But if it has the same problem with Stereo as the S2DT, I will certainly pass on it.

Gospel: I tried what you mentioned about selecting Mono and then changing back to Stereo and then switching tuners, but that didn't work. Actually when you change that setting, which can not be changed if something is recording, the S3DT changes both tuners to the same channel, so when I go back and press Live TV again, the other tuner is on the same channel. But anyway, I went back to setup and tried to switch back and forth again, but still no Stereo. How did you know that your S2DT was in Mono and can can you now tell that it's in Stereo now, if you say that even in Stereo you cannot get Dolby Pro Logic? Is your S2DT connected to a receiver or into a TV?

Yesterday, since Tech Support said that my problem may be due to a weak signal, I removed a splitter which sent half of the cable to my PC Broadband connection and fed the cable right into the Tivo, still no Stereo and no SAP. Although I don't think it will matter, I will still go buy a signal amplifier and try again.

I bought two S2DT TiVos, one for the Bedroom and another for the Home Theater, but if I can't get the HT unit to do Stereo I will have to send that one back and keep the one in the Bedroom since it's directly connected to a TV with very small speaker and the Stereo issue on that one doesn't bother me and wait for the S3 and hope that it will do better job in sound quality.

But, I keep hoping that I get get Stereo to work on the S2DT, and then when the S3 comes out, I could end up with three TiVos.

[Dan203]

I highly doubt the stero will work the way you're expecting. Like I said the ProLogic problem has been around since the first TiVos were released back in 1999. The only way you might be able to get around it would be to buy a Humax DVD-RW TiVo, since they record in AC3 instead of MP2. Although I'm not even 100% sure that will work, and even if it does you'll be limited to a single tuner.

The Series 3 units will work fine. They record digital signals directly, so anything that comes from an ATSC channel or digital cable channel will have it's original digital audio, even full DD5.1 if available. And for the analog channels they'll most likely use AC3 encoding, since the unit will have a digital audio output and AC3 is more efficient.

Dan

[Gospel]

Hmm, it seems that S2DT has reverted back momo. I thought I had it working. Like I said above when the audio source mono, sound comes out the senter speaker and not the front left and right. When stereo is working, I hear sound from all 3 front speakers. I have a new S2DT sitting on top of an older 240 S2. I have set both to the same channel.

When I connect the older S2 to the audio-in of the soundcard, I hear sound out of all three front speakers. Wen I chiange the audio to the new S2DT, sound only comes out the cetner speaker. So, I am still having mono audio problem.

Gee, thanks for bursting my bubble! Just kidding. :)

Now, I need to figure this out.

Thanks,
Steven

[Dan203]

Hmmm if you're comparing two TiVos side by side and only the S2DT is giving you trouble then there might actually be a problem with your unit.

One way to confirm if it's the recording or a problem with the unit itself is to transfer the recording to your PC via TTG and see if the stereo comes through properly there. If it does then it's a problem with the TiVos output. If it doesn't then it's a problem with either the cable signal or the TiVo's tuner.

Dan

[jfh3]

Dan203: I thought about getting a new S3, but I was told by TiVo that it will be October before they are released.

Not to hijack your thread, but who told you October for the Series 3?

[Gospel]

I transferred a recording from the S2DT to my older S2. The recording played in mono. That was a good test. I think it is time to call TiVo. I'll do it tomorrow afternoon. Any other ideas?

BTW, the S2DT has the 7.2.5a software.

Thanks,
Steven

[Gospel]

I just remembered that I had transferred a recording from the old S2 to my S2DT. So, I am playing it now. Guess what? I hear stereo!

Edit: Still mono for live TV.

Thanks,
Steven

[Dan203]

Sounds like it's a problem with either the source or the TiVo. Is the TiVo using a cable box? If so is this program something that would require the cable box to record? And if so how do you have the cable box connected to the TiVo?

If it's strictly the internal tuner, then it could still be the material. What you should so is attempt to simultaneously record the same program on both TiVos. If the S2 comes out stereo and the S2DT comes out mono, then you probably have a hardware issue and you should get the unit replaced.

Dan

[Dan203]

Not to hijack your thread, but who told you October for the Series 3?

I don't know who told him but that's about in line with the current concenses guess. The Idol Speculation contest they were running said that the grand prize would be delivered within 4 months of the end of the contest, which is next week. There was some language that gave them leaway if the production slips, but that shows that they intended to have them ready by September. Whether that happens or not is yet to be seen, but it's the best we've got right now.

Dan

[Abner]

I just remembered that I had transferred a recording from the old S2 to my S2DT. So, I am playing it now. Guess what? I hear stereo!

Still mono for live TV.


Gospel/Dan203: My units plays MP3 music in Stereo, but nothing that comes through the tuner is in Stereo. Several freinds at work that have the older Single Tuner S2 have all told me that they get Stereo. The settings section, where you change the audio setting, is only for the tuners new recordings. From the beginning I have suspected that there is a software bug and no matter what you set it at, it always internally leaves the setting in Mono, even though you set it to Stero or SAP. I have gone to a channel that I know, and have verfied on another TV, to be transmitting in SAP and the S2DT TiVo cannot pick up the SAP signal. The S2DT tuners do not support Stereo or SAP. If it's not a software bug, then the tuners are all defective/flawed due to bad design. So they need to fix the software or replace the tuners on the new S2DT TiVos.

Hopefully other S2DT owners will carefully listen to thier units and check if thiers also have the same problem. Hopefully others besides Gospel and I realize that there is a problem with the S2DT tuners. Other owners, please check your S2DT tuners and let us know if you get Stereo and SAP. As I mentioned before, it's really hard to tell by sounds alone if you only have the Tivo connected directly to a TV with small speakers. If you find a station that is transmitting in SAP, you can easily tell if you get it.

Let's try to get this fixed. Hopefully it's just a software glitch.

[Gospel]

I have the coax coming out the wall going into the TiVo. It seems that a couple channels were coming in stereo on the S2DT last night like the Disney channel but most channels were not. Now, it seems that not even the Disney channel is stereo and hasn't all afternoon. I haven't figured it out. I checked some of my recordings from a week or two ago and they are in mono. So, I was mistaken that I got stereo working in my first post in this thread.

Thanks,
Steven

[ellfire]

I, too, am experiencing the same "No Stereo" problem with my DT. I called Tivo and told that it probably was the unit, so I returned it to the store and got a whole new box. This second box has the same problem. I know it isn't the connection because I can receive stereo broadcast through an "old fashioned" VHS HiFi VCR. I am really hoping this is something that they can patch with a software update!
Also, if anyone tries a signal amplifier with success, I'd like to know. My building has all brand new wiring so my signal is above normal for strength and quality, so UI don't think that is a problem, but you never know.

[Abner]

There is definitely a problem with these S2DT units! It may be a software bug or a hardware problem in the tuners, but we have to stay on top of TiVo and get this issue fix!

Gospel, have you called TiVo yet?

I'm going to transfer something recorded in Stereo from my Panasonic DVR and verify that it plays in Stereo. Gospel did this same test and the copied program from his older S2 played in Stereo. This really proves that the issue is with the Tuners/Tuners Software and not an overall audio hardware problem with the S2DT. The MP3 music plays fine.

I will follow-up with another call to TiVo with this problem. This will then be my third call.

Other than that, both TiVos along with networking functions has worked flawlessly.

[Dan203]

I've alerted someone at TiVo about this thread. If this is in fact a software bug they'll look into it.

Dan

[Abner]

Dan203,

Thank You for alerting Tivo about this thread. Today I called Tivo to get a status and let them know about this thread. They basically haven't yet accepted that there is a problem and wanted to send me another TiVo. I told them that someone else had already gotten a new TiVo and that it had the same problem. They were also not very receptive about looking at this thread. They said this forum was for our convenience and that they really didn't use it. I tried to encourage them to look at this thread, so they can see that two others have reported this same problem. This time they did say that they would pass this information to the engineering group. I guess I'll check back next Monday and see if they have an update.

In the mean time, hopefully others will notice the problem and also report it to TiVo. Just reporting it here isn't enough, you need to also open a case with TiVo. Like I mentioned they said that this forum was for the user communities convenience and that they didn't read or use it.

[ellfire]

If it should help the cause, I had started a thread on Tivo's help forums prior to posting here. (Actually, it is how I found this thread.) Feel free to post up a storm to help get Tivo's attention. I can't link to it because I am new here, but you can search it with the keywords "no stereo 2 dt".

[Abner]

Last night, just like Tivo had suggested, (they said my signal may be weak and cause the Mono only problem), I went out a bought a signal amplifier. It a Phillips which amplifies the signal 24DB. This is the most powerful one I have ever seen, usually they only increase the signal by about 10 DB. Got it at Walmart for $39.

The S2DT still only plays anything coming from the Tuner(s) in Mono, no Stereo and no SAP. The signal amplifier actually made the picture look worse. It seems like if really amplified the snow and common interference in analog channels.

Needless to say, but I removed the signal amplifier and I'm returning it.

[whitesoxfan06]

When I receive my unit today this is the first thing I'll check after completeing guided setup. I hope we can figure out if this is an issue with all DT units so I can determine whether or not to try to send out for a replacement if in fact it is the same with mine.

[apathasia]

Add me to the list of people with no stereo. I have my DT set up on the same TV as an old S1. Last night Lost on the S1 = Stereo. Lost on the DT = Mono. I haven't called yet but I will in the next few days.

Sheri

[narnia777]

Can this thread by made sticky so we can find it easier?

I bought a brand new DT and set it up after selling my 40 gig tivo to my friend.

Have Dish Network (limited alacart subscription+sky angel) and limited basic cable. Seems that stuff coming from the 301 Dish box through the red/white and svideo is stereo but not coming in from the coax. No stereo or SAP from the coax regardless of the settings.

I verified it with Comcast's own cable box that isn't connected to the Tivo, that the channels are carried in stereo and or SAP.

Jim

[starneml]

Add another to the list. Recorded the Country Music Awards the other week on both my Series 2-540 and my Series2-DT (since i had heard of problems with one of the tuners on the Dual having audio dropouts) -- When I play the one from the 540 Single Tuner it is definately in Stereo. The Dual Tuner is definately in Mono. And they are both side by side and fed off the same splitter.

[Gospel]

Last night, just like Tivo had suggested, (they said my signal may be weak and cause the Mono only problem), I went out a bought a signal amplifier. It a Phillips which amplifies the signal 24DB. This is the most powerful one I have ever seen, usually they only increase the signal by about 10 DB. Got it at Walmart for $39.

I got a 4 output RF amp from Radio Shack. Sound is still in mono.

Will ask about this in a poll.

Enjoy life,
Steven

[Gospel]

Here is the poll:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=301774

Thanks,
Steven

[Abner]

I think that TiVo by now MUST know that there is a problem with the S2DT and are avoiding the issue because it is a Tuner hardware problem and do not want to refund peoples money with the 30 guarantee. They are hoping that the time expires for most and we all get stuck with bogus TiVos. Everyone needs to demand that they get an answer, their guarantee extended or we should just demand an RMA number and send these units back.

We should all come up with a date and time and call in at the same time and report the problem again! I really think that they know about it and are just ignoring us!

I am certainly ready to send my unit back! Let's try to call them one last time and if we get the run around, let all get RMAs and send these puppies back!

[Dan203]

Slow down there turbo! This thread is less then 2 weeks old. Don't you think you should give it a little more time before you jump to the conclusion that it's a hardware problem and that TiVo is avoiding the issue because they don't want to dole out refinds?

It takes time to investigate problems like this, especially with such a small percentage of users reporting it. If I were you I wouldn't expect a fix for at least a few months. If that is unacceptable to you then you better take the TiVo back now while you're still in the 30 day return window.

Dan

[Gospel]

I called TiVo and got sent to level 2 support almost immediately. The level 1 person she didn't have training yet on the dual tuner models. I was on the phone for over an hour with the L2 guy. It is a risk but we are going to try a box swap. They are sending me a new one and then I'll send my first one back.

During the conversation, they L2 guy said they had hardly gotten any mono problem calls. They said it is more common to have signal problems on the second tuner. So, TiVo tech support doesn't think the mono issue is software related. He idicated that it mgiht be a soldering problem.

We will see.

Enjoy life,
Steven

[JasonRossSmith]

Slow down there turbo! This thread is less then 2 weeks old. Don't you think you should give it a little more time before you jump to the conclusion that it's a hardware problem and that TiVo is avoiding the issue because they don't want to dole out refinds?

It takes time to investigate problems like this, especially with such a small percentage of users reporting it. If I were you I wouldn't expect a fix for at least a few months. If that is unacceptable to you then you better take the TiVo back now while you're still in the 30 day return window.

Dan


Well put Dan. I myself have the dual tuner and have not experienced the mono issue so far. Tivo might not be putting 100% of their resources behind this one issue (nor should they), but intentionally trying to cover it up? I highly doubt that.

[starneml]

As a Data Point

I ran a test tonight --- listneing to a source that was definately stereo with headphones -- thinking that maybe one tuner was stereo, one was mono, and it sure seemed like both were mono.

I turned on the Tuner Display and switch the sterea source around so I could listen to it on each Tuner and both were mono while my 80MB SEries 2 Singleu Tuner was definately stereo.

[Abner]

Slow down there turbo! This thread is less then 2 weeks old. Don't you think you should give it a little more time before you jump to the conclusion that it's a hardware problem and that TiVo is avoiding the issue because they don't want to dole out refinds?

It takes time to investigate problems like this, especially with such a small percentage of users reporting it. If I were you I wouldn't expect a fix for at least a few months. If that is unacceptable to you then you better take the TiVo back now while you're still in the 30 day return window.

Dan

I will slow down! However, I have had my first Tivo since May 5th and my second since May 12th. I first called TiVo the day after I got my first one. I have placed four calls and have spent at least two hours on the phone and I always get the same story, "No One else has reported this problem". It seems like others are getting the same story.

It really seems to me that they are not looking into it, or ignoring the problem. I would be very happy if they told me, yes we have a problem and it's a software issue which should be resolved in two months. I would say fine, and let everyone else know that the fix is coming. But it has been over three weeks and I have not gotten a satisfactory answer from TiVo. Always the same story, "No one else has reported this problem". I think there are about seven other users that have reported the problem here. Not sure how many of them have notified Tivo. But it still surprises me, that TiVo still claims that no one else has reported this problem. What would you think, if you always got that same story?

I will call right now again for the fifth time. And if I get the same story I will return my TiVos and quit complaining about the problem. If I don't have the TiVo's, I have nothing to complain about. I'll just go back to my good old Panasonic DVR and maybe get TiVos again, when the issue is resolved. I really can't handle getting the same answer over and over again.

[mick66]

I've had many of the SA model Tivos over the years (Philips HDR-xxx; PTVxxx; Tivo 140xxx, 240xxx, 540xxx and 649xxx) and all have been or are connected to my A/V receiver. When the receiver is set to Pro Logic, I only get mono sound. When I set it to Stereo that's exactly what I get - stereo sound.

[Abner]

I've had many of the SA model Tivos over the years (Philips HDR-xxx; PTVxxx; Tivo 140xxx, 240xxx, 540xxx and 649xxx) and all have been or are connected to my A/V receiver. When the receiver is set to Pro Logic, I only get mono sound. When I set it to Stereo that's exactly what I get - stereo sound.

Both of my S2DT play only in Mono. One is connected to a receiver, and with the receiver set to Stereo, listening with head phones, I can hear that it is mono. The other is connected with Video and RCA audio cables to a TV and also listening with head phones, it also only is playing in mono.

Again only when I play MP3 music coming over the wireless network, does it play in Stereo. But nothing that come via the Tuners is ever in Stereo, only Mono.

[Gospel]

Well, the replacement S2DT TiVo came in today. I took it out of the box and hooked up. I haven't even peeled the plastic off the front yet. Guess what? Mono only! :( So, the hardware on both S2DT units is probably fine.

I've had many of the SA model Tivos over the years (Philips HDR-xxx; PTVxxx; Tivo 140xxx, 240xxx, 540xxx and 649xxx) and all have been or are connected to my A/V receiver. When the receiver is set to Pro Logic, I only get mono sound. When I set it to Stereo that's exactly what I get - stereo sound.

Mick, you got me thinking. The way I understand Pro-Logic works is that it can send two audio streams over a single channel. IIRC, it uses phase shifting to do this. Also, IIRC, stereo TV channels are supposed to encode two audio channels (Left and Right) into the TV signal. What if, the cable company is using a single audio channel that is Pro-Logic encoded to produce stereo. That would allow the cable company to apply more compression on the signal. Also, what if my old 240 S2 has the hardware to decode this but the new S2DT does not.

I am basically asserting that maybe the audio encoding that my cable provider uses is not compatible with the new S2DT TiVos. What do you think of this theory?

Let's dig a little deeper and see if we can find a common thread. Please answer the following questions. My answers will follow.

1) Do you hear mono or stereo in recordings and Live TV?
2) Do you have satellite or cable?
3) Do your use the RF coax input or cable box/RCA cables?
4) Who is your cable/satellite provider?
5) What city do you life in? (optional)
6) Do you live in an apartment or a house?

Note: this is only for dual tuner S2 owners.

My answers:

1) Mono
2) Cable
3) RF coax, no cable box (wall -> UPS -> RF amp/splitter -> TiVo)
4) Time Warner
5) Houston
6) Apartment (actually it is an appartment-like condo)

Thanks,
Steven

[starneml]

wow

Ignoring the Pro-Logic issue (since mine is not hooked to a receiver) the Stereo Standard for Broadcast TV gas been around for many years.

I hooked up several devices to this piece of coax and all of them successfeully recognized the stereo signal and decoded it into left and right channels. Even an older 15 year old TV that understands stereo and it gave me a stereo signal. All but the new S2DT. It's almost like the Audio setting in the Settings Menu doesn't properly set the box into stereo mode for broadcasts.

My Answers:
1) Mono
2) Cable
3) RF coax, no cable box
4) Comcast
5) Baltimore, MD
6) Apartment

[starneml]

Ran another test -- to rule out signal strength -- hooked up my S2DT right to the Cable jack. Still mono tuner reception. Testing an input coming in from a cable box over the Composite inputs (Yellow Red White), definately stereo.

So there is definately something wring with the stereo reception on the S2DT. Either the box is not seeing the stereo exciter or its stuck in Mono Mode. Hopeing for the latter since that should be a software tweak.

Gospel, cant wait to hear what TiVo says since the new box also exhibits the same behaviour. Stereo over broadcast/cable is a pretty well established standard now -- i cant believe the S2DT isn't adhering to the standard.

I made another discovery -- I switched my Single Tuner TiVo over to SAP (Second Audio Program, usually Spanish or some other audio source). On the Single Tuner I heard the Second Audio Program. When I did the same thing on the Dual-Tuner, the audio program was still the Main Audio.

Again, this leads me to suspect that either
1) the DT does not recognize the Stereo Exciter to turn on Main-Stereo or SAP
OR
2) there is a software problem that isnt properly setting that setting in the box.

[Dan203]

It really seems to me that they are not looking into it, or ignoring the problem.

I can assure you that the people I reported the problem to are looking into it. However as I said these things take time to diagnose, and the CSRs you talk to on the phone aren't always kept up to date on every issue.

Dan

[lessd]

My DT TiVo that I have had for about a month is connected so the Stereo would not show up. Because of this Thread I checked out the Stereo and SAP they do not work, My family has two other DT units and I took the time to check them out, they also had the same problem no SAP or Stereo. All three were bought at different stores at different times so this is not a bad batch problem this is a real problem.

I would TiVo to acknowledge that the problem exists on all DT units (or not)
Is the fix hardware (what a cost for TiVo and a pain for customers) or software which I can wait for.

I will call TiVo now and try to get some answers.

6:03 pm EST Can't call as the call center is down, o well.

[lessd]

Just got off the phone with L2 Tech they now believe they have a problem and are going to TiVo engineering with a demo of this no Stereo no SAP problem, I got a case number from the tech so we can hope we are on the way to a solution.

I hope TiVo will post that its being worked on.

[Gospel]

I'm on the phone with Tech support right now. Can you share that case number? You can email it to swhatley@hal-pc.org if you don't want to post ithere.

Thanks!
Steven

[Gospel]

I'm on the phone with Tech support right now. Can you share that case number? You can email it to swhatley@hal-pc.org if you don't want to post ithere.

No need to bother now. I'm off the phone now.

Thanks,
Steven

[JasonRossSmith]

Well put Dan. I myself have the dual tuner and have not experienced the mono issue so far.[=

Check that. Was watching the Matrix this afternoon, and the DT is mono, the single tuner is stero. Bummer!

1) Do you hear mono or stereo in recordings and Live TV?
2) Do you have satellite or cable?
3) Do your use the RF coax input or cable box/RCA cables?
4) Who is your cable/satellite provider?
5) What city do you life in? (optional)
6) Do you live in an apartment or a house?


My answers:

1) Mono
2) Cable
3) RF coax, no cable box (wall -> TiVo)
4) Cox (basic)
5) Omaha, NE
6) House

[starneml]

Just based on the small sampling here I am thinking that those who dont think they have the problem are either feeding their DT with Baseband Audio/Video or just dont realize that their Coax feed is mono.

I too am hoping it is simply a software fix.

[Gospel]

With a TV 10' in font of you it can be hard to tell if it is mono or stereo. But, I have my speakers directly to the left and right of me. Plus, the X-Fi sound in 3D CMSS surround mode outputs mono signals out the center speaker only. Even when I connect the TiVo directly to my speakers, the audio coming from the left and right speakers sound cenered.

I think a lot of folks have this problem and don't realize it. I hope this is a software issue and not a hardware issue.

However, at one point a couple weeks ago, I thought I was hearing sereo on the Disney chennel but it sounds mono like the rest of the channels now.

Enjoy life!
Steven

[Dan203]

Just based on the small sampling here I am thinking that those who dont think they have the problem are either feeding their DT with Baseband Audio/Video or just dont realize that their Coax feed is mono.

Are you talking about feeding coax from the TiVo to the TV? If so that is supose to be mono! Stereo RF modulators are expensive and don't typically get put into low end A/V equipment like this. Everyone else here is complaining about not hearing stereo out of the baseband RCA connections, which is a problem. Mono out of the RF output is simply as designed.

Dan

[starneml]

Are you talking about feeding coax from the TiVo to the TV? If so that is supose to be mono! Stereo RF modulators are expensive and don't typically get put into low end A/V equipment like this. Everyone else here is complaining about not hearing stereo out of the baseband RCA connections, which is a problem. Mono out of the RF output is simply as designed.


Nope -- i know that the TiVo does not output stereo on it's RF connection. Have never even hooked anything to my RF out on my TiVo. I simply meant they dont realize that their incoming cable feed is being seen as Mono by the DT. I didnt notice it myself until the Country Music Awards and I transferred it over to my PC and was listening to it with headphones. And then compared it to the recording I had made on my Single Tuner TiVo.

Since most programs today may be *Stereo* but dont really utilize *Stereo*. It may be difficult to tell for those people who just have it hooked up to their TV with RCA cables.

I think the lack of SAP is the real indicator since many times *stereo* is subjective. But that fact that the DT wont do SAP either is the easiest thing to notice and be sure of.

The box is so nice otherwise, i am willing to wait for TiVo to fix it. I can record something that i know will be stereo and i want to hear stereo on one of my singer Tuner TiVos. Just hope its fixed before the new TV season starts in September. :)

[Gospel]

I also use straight RCA audio cables to connect my S2DT to my audio system. If I transfer a show recorded on my older 240 S2 to the new S2DT, the show plays in stereo on the S2DT. So, stereo between the TiVo and the audio system works fine. Conversely, if I transfer a show that was recorded on the S2DT to my older S2, the show plays in mono on my older S2.

There is no doubt that there is a problem here that is affecting many people. I'd be happy to record a snipplet of the same show on both TiVos and send them to TiVo support for analysis.

Thanks,
Steven

[starneml]

I also use straight RCA audio cables to connect my S2DT to my audio system. If I transfer a show recorded on my older 240 S2 to the new S2DT, the show plays in stereo on the S2DT. So, stereo between the TiVo and the audio system works fine. Conversely, if I transfer a show that was recorded on the S2DT to my older S2, the show plays in mono on my older S2.

There is no doubt that there is a problem here that is affecting many people. I'd be happy to record a snipplet of the same show on both TiVos and send them to TiVo support for analysis.

That is exactly what I am seeing also

[Abner]

I can assure you that the people I reported the problem to are looking into it. However as I said these things take time to diagnose, and the CSRs you talk to on the phone aren't always kept up to date on every issue.

Dan


Have you heard back from the TiVo guys? Have they determined if it's a hardware or a software problem?

[Gospel]

Dan said it may take some time. Hopefully not too long. Would be nice if the fix could be rolled into 7.3 when ever it comes out. A 7.2.5b would be nicer.

Thanks!
Steven

[Gospel]

My S2DT sound is still mono. :( I was hoping that 7.3 would fix the problem :(

Enjoy life!
Steven

[JasonRossSmith]

I genuinely, seriously, for the sake of all of us owners, as well as for TiVo's financial health, hope this is not a hardware issue. A recall or, even lots of return/repair/swap outs would be devastatingly expensive...

I would not want that for Tivo either as a customer or a stockholder....

[mchips]

I may have a work-around to getting DT's running 7.2.5a switched to stereo, but it's a bit tricky, and it doesn't seem to work with 7.3...

I have three DT's, and they were all in Mono as well, even though the Audio settings state Stereo...

I essentially, seemingly, had to change the Audio setting for each tuner, and it took several attempts... my first attempts were not successful...

It took a series of steps of swapping between tuners, changing each tuner from Stereo to Mono, and then reversing the process with each tuner to switch from Mono back to Stereo.

I used the SciFi channel, as Stereo seems most evident on this channel on my system... at one point during the process, I am able to press LiveTV to toggle between both tuners, with both tuned to SciFi, and one is Stereo while the other is Mono...

Note: I do not have a cable box connected to any of my DT's...

In short, I did the following (but this only worked on the two of my boxes running 7.2.5a... I could not get it to work on the one running 7.3, which I just got on one of them).

It would take more experimentation on my part to further fine-tune this, so I apologize to those who just find this confusing... but I finally managed to get two of my DT's all on stereo using this process, and then someone I shared this with asked me to share it with the TCF in this thread; so here you go - hopefully this helps some of you, until TiVo can provide a software update to fix it... Tune to the SciFi channel (or channel of your choice where Stereo vs. Mono is clearly distinguishable).
Change the Audio setting from Stereo to Mono.
Drop back to Live TV.
Pressing LiveTV toggles between the tuners, with both tuners now on the SciFi channel (or the channel you chose in Step 1 above). If you do this, be sure that your final toggle with the LiveTV button returns you back to the tuner you began this step with (see Note below).
Change the Audio setting from Mono back to Stereo.
Drop back to Live TV.
Pressing LiveTV again toggles between the tuners, both still on the SciFi channel (or the channel you chose in Step 1 above), except now one is in Stereo, and the other is in Mono.
I channel down one channel on the Mono tuner, and channel up one channel on the Stereo tuner (using the LiveTV button to toggle between the two), and then make sure I'm toggled back to the Mono tuner, based on the lower channel number, and then repeat steps 2 thru 6 above... Note: When performing each of the steps above, I had to make sure I knew which tuner I was on, and that when I was changing from Stereo to Mono, and then back again, that I was doing it on the same tuner each time... I think some of my failed attempts may have been due to switching tuners during the toggling process, and getting lost as to which tuner I was on... which is why I added changing the channels in Step 8 (Up for Stereo, and Down for Mono) to the process...

On my 7.2.5a DT's when performing Step 2 above, both tuners get automatically tuned to the same channel. This does not happen on 7.3, at least not on mine... on my 7.3 box, I cannot tune both tuners to the same channel at the same time, whereas my 7.2.5a boxes do... this may or may not have something to do with being able to get them set to Stereo...

[Gospel]

I may have a work-around to getting DT's running 7.2.5a switched to stereo, but it's a bit tricky, and it doesn't seem to work with 7.3...
I did at one time manage to do this within the first few days of having the S2DT using a similar technique. Somehow, it reverted back to mono. :( I have not be able to reproduce it and get back to stereo. See my first post in this thread on the first page.

Thanks,
Steven

[mchips]

I did at one time manage to do this within the first few days of having the S2DT using a similar technique. Somehow, it reverted back to mono. :( I have not be able to reproduce it and get back to stereo. See my first post in this thread on the first page.

Thanks,
Steven So far, I've been able to reproduce this 100%... on my 7.2.5a boxes...

At first, it was hit or miss... with me getting it to Stereo on one tuner, then both ending back to Mono... a little frustrating at first, in trying to figure out how to get both tuners on both boxes to stereo and to stay on stereo...

But then, eventually, with the steps I outlined above, I am now able to go back and forth between Mono and Stereo on my two DT's running 7.2.5a at will... 7.3 seems to have broken this work-around, but I will continue to work with my 7.3 box to see if I can get a work-around for it as well... I've reported my findings to TiVo...

This all tells me that it's probably more of a software issue than a hardware issue...

<edit>
But I will keep an eye on them to see if they revert back to Mono on their own, like what happened to you...

[lessd]

It would still be nice if TiVo posted to tell us that they know of the problem and are trying to fix it, I have a case number on this problem but they do not admit to me that its a universal problem; they will look into it.

[Gospel]

Ready for something scary? I just looked in the mnaul. Go to page 116 in the TiVo Viewers Guide. Read the lefthand column to the top paragraph in the righthand colum. Pay close attentin to the bottom paragraph on the lefthand side. I will quote it below:
You can not change the audio track if you are watching live program, but are not caught up to live TV. Catch up to live TV by pressing the ADVANCE button. Changing the audio program will clear the saved part of the program you are watching, so you will only be able to rewind live TV to where you changed the audio program.
Guess what? No matter what I do before I change the audio setting, the saved buffers never clear!

Bug?

Enjoy life!
Steven

[mchips]

Guess what? No matter what I do before I change the audio setting, the saved buffers never clear!

Bug?
Good find...

The buffers do clear on my 7.2.5a boxes, like they're supposed to, but not on my 7.3 box...

<edit>
Which now makes me wonder if that's why I can change the Audio setting on my 7.2.5a boxes, albeit with a work-around, but not on my 7.3 box...

:confused:

[Gospel]

PS: For those you who have single tuner S2s, try changing the S2ST to mono. I can't seem to be able to do it on my 240 S2. So, is this problem comon to 7.2 and later software? Again, the saved buffer is not clearing.

Edit: I now have 7.3 on my 240 S2 box and the S2DT box. Hmm....

[lessd]

PS: For those you who have single tuner S2s, try changing the S2ST to mono. I can't seem to be able to do it on my 240 S2. So, is this problem comon to 7.2 and later software? Again, the saved buffer is not clearing.

Edit: I now have 7.3 on my 240 S2 box and the S2DT box. Hmm....

Works if you change channels (after changing to say SAP) on 240 595 and 540 but not on the 649 TiVos

[Gospel]

Hi all,

I now have stereo on the dual tuner S2!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Here are the steps I went though. You may need 7.3 installed first.

1) Force one tuner to mono:
1a) Go to M&S -> Settings -> Audio and select mono.
1b) Press Live TV.
1c) Change channels (With 7.3 the tuner won't switch and don't pick a channel the other tuner is using).
1d) Change back to previous channel.

2) Force the other tuner to mono:
2a) Press Live TV to switch tuners.
2b) Go to M&S -> Settings -> Audio and select stereo.
2c) Go back into audio and select mono.
2d) Press Live TV.
2e) Change channels (Again, don't pick the channel the first tuner is using.).
2f) Change back to previous channel.

Now lets repeat the steps to go to stereo.

3) Now force current tuner to stereo:
3a) Go to M&S -> Settings -> Audio and select stereo.
3b) Press Live TV.
3c) Change channels.
3d) Change back to previous channel.

4) Force the other tuner to stereo:
4a) Press Live TV to switch tuners.
4b) Go to M&S -> Settings -> Audio and select mono.
4c) Go back into audio and select stereo.
4d) Press Live TV.
4e) Change channels.
4f) Change back to previous channel.

Now I have stereo on both tuners! Steps 2b, 2c, 4b, and 4c may not be necessary but I don't want to mess with the audio settings anymore. I'll let others streamline the procedure.

Enjoy life and the stereo sound!
Steven

[Gospel]

PS: the hidden code S-P-S-InstantReplay-S seems to no longer show the tuner status eventhough I do hear three chimes after entering the code.

[mchips]

I now have stereo on the dual tuner S2!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Here are the steps I went though. You may need 7.3 installed first.
Gospel,

Your steps are very well laid out... unfortunately, I couldn't get it to work on my box running 7.3... I followed every step exactly... I'll do a reboot and try again...

Have you tried switching it back to Mono? Are you able to go back and forth between Mono and Stereo now?

I've noticed that since I performed the steps I outlined above on my 7.2.5a boxes, I no longer have to go through those steps again to change it back and forth between Mono and Stereo... I now only need to change the setting as you normally would, just once, and it changes it on both tuners. So, I can now easily switch my 7.2.5a boxes between Mono and Stereo and back again at will.

But I'm still struggling to get my 7.3 box to stereo.

[Gospel]

Yes, I can now go between audio settings.

1) Change the audio setting
2) Live TV
3) Change channel
4) Live TV
5) Change channel

It may have helped that I tried doing S-P-S-InstantReply-S hidden code eventhough no tuner status display showed up. I did hear the 3 dings. I did it twice before I did the procedure a few posts up. I was wanting to use the tuner status display to help me see which tuner I was adjusting.

Enjoy life,
Steven

[Gospel]

Bad news. Rebooting the S2DT after achieving stereo sound reverts the S2DT back to mono. :( I am retracing my steps to see how I got stereo to work. I'll report back.

Why did I have to be curious to know if the stereo setting would stick after a reboot? :confused: At least this time I know it is possible to get stereo to work with 7.3.

Please stand by...
Steven

[mchips]

Bad news. Rebooting the S2DT after achieving stereo sound reverts the S2DT back to mono. :( Yep, looks like we both did the same thing, except mine wasn't intentional...

There was a severe storm in my area, resulting in a 2-hour power outage... when everything came back up, my boxes were back to mono...

Fortunately, I was able to get both of my 7.2.5a boxes back to stereo, but I had to follow the steps I outlined above all over again, and it took me 2 or 3 attempts each...

I still can't get my 7.3 box to stereo...

[Gospel]

I've done about a half dozen reboots. I have found a repeatable sequence that eventually works with 7.3 to turn on stereo for both tuners.

1) First do a reboot of the S2DT if it hasn't just been rebooted.
2) Make sure each tuner is tuned to a different channel that should be stereo.

3) Enter the hidden code Select-Play-Select-InstantReplay-Select. If successful, you should hear 3 chimes.
4) Press the Advance button
5) Go into M&S -> Settings -> Audio -> Television Audio
6) Set to Mono. If already mono, select stereo, go back to Televison Audio, and select mono.
7) Prese Live TV
8) Enter a channel number.
9) Change back to the previous channel.
10) Go back to the Televevision Audio and select stereo
11) Go back to Live TV.
12) Enter the channel number of a known stereo channel.
13) Change back to the previous channel.

14) If sound still is mono redo steps 3 to 13 until sucessful. May take 2 to 4 times.

15) Press Live TV to change to the other tuner.

16) Repeat steps 3 to 13 untill sound is in stereo. Again, may take 2 to 4 times.

If both tuners are now Stereo the following is sufficient to change audio modes:

1) Change the audio setting
2) Live TV
3) Change channel
4) Live TV
5) Change channel

The fact the S2DT reverts back to mono after a reboot plus the complicated set of steps to get stereo back clearly indicates there is still a software bug. It should not be this hard.

I really hope this works others. If someone comes up with something simpler, please let us know!

Thanks,
Steven

[mchips]

I was finally able to get one of the tuners on my 7.3 box to stereo, but not both.

After more than an hour of doing these steps over and over, as well as trying other things, I'm giving up for now. At least I know my 7.3 box is capable of stereo, albeit on only one tuner atm.

Hopefully, a future update will address and fix this for everyone.

[mchips]

Okay, I finally got both tuners on my 7.3 box to stereo as well...

It was not easy, and I cannot guarantee that I'll be able to duplicate it easily if it reverts back to mono again after a reboot.

It took dozens of attempts, getting one tuner, then eventually the second...

So... it is possible on both v7.2.5a and v7.3... just not easy...

Looking forward to a future update that will fix this...

[tmartin671]

I have had a Tivo ST for years now connected to my panasonic receiver that was passing Dolby ProLogic sound perfectly. My experience and the tivo support article number tv1014 seem to contradict the earlier poster's statement that Tivos do not support ProLogic. Yet, now with my DT connected in the same manner to the same receiver, I do get stereo but the Tivo is no longer passing ProLogic. (It does make very faint squirrel noises like chirping or squealing in the back speakers when set to ProLogic however).

This is highly disappointing to me and has caused me to debate the dual tuner feature with the better sound experience.

[Gospel]

I agree, it is not easy. But, it is so nice to have stereo sound again. You might want to put your TiVo on a backupUPS. A good APC can ba had for $99. But, it won't help with 2 hour outages.

Enjoy life,
Steven

[lessd]

I've done about a half dozen reboots. I have found a repeatable sequence that eventually works with 7.3 to turn on stereo for both tuners.

1) First do a reboot of the S2DT if it hasn't just been rebooted.
2) Make sure each tuner is tuned to a different channel that should be stereo.

3) Enter the hidden code Select-Play-Select-InstantReplay-Select. If successful, you should hear 3 chimes.
4) Press the Advance button
5) Go into M&S -> Settings -> Audio -> Television Audio
6) Set to Mono. If already mono, select stereo, go back to Televison Audio, and select mono.
7) Prese Live TV
8) Enter a channel number.
9) Change back to the previous channel.
10) Go back to the Televevision Audio and select stereo
11) Go back to Live TV.
12) Enter the channel number of a known stereo channel.
13) Change back to the previous channel.

14) If sound still is mono redo steps 3 to 13 until sucessful. May take 2 to 4 times.

15) Press Live TV to change to the other tuner.

16) Repeat steps 3 to 13 untill sound is in stereo. Again, may take 2 to 4 times.

If both tuners are now Stereo the following is sufficient to change audio modes:

1) Change the audio setting
2) Live TV
3) Change channel
4) Live TV
5) Change channel

The fact the S2DT reverts back to mono after a reboot plus the complicated set of steps to get stereo back clearly indicates there is still a software bug. It should not be this hard.

I really hope this works others. If someone comes up with something simpler, please let us know!

Thanks,
Steven

Lets put this as an addendum in the manual..that will keep TiVo CSR busy.

[Gospel]

Lets put this as an addendum in the manual..that will keep TiVo CSR busy.
ROFL! :D That is funny!

[lessd]

ROFL! :D That is funny!

What not funny is that I just called TiVo on my case number for this problem (the case was from early last week) and the supervisor said he had heard nothing about the problem and wanted to do an exchange. I told him others have had their DT TiVos exchanged, it did not fix the problem. He then told me he would go to Eng to see if they knew anything about the problem and call me back. If this is a hardware problem (I not saying it is) it would be a BIG problem for TiVo who may have thousands of DT units built and could cost more to send back to fix then the cost to make the DT units in the first place.

Normally on problems less important than this one the TiVoOpsMgr posts something to put us at rest. He even posted on not having the temp show on the SI screen with new software 7.3, that really unimportant to most users. I don't know about the rest of you but I would like to hear something from TiVo on this.

How bad is fixing this problem going to be !!!

[angel35]

PS: For those you who have single tuner S2s, try changing the S2ST to mono. I can't seem to be able to do it on my 240 S2. So, is this problem comon to 7.2 and later software? Again, the saved buffer is not clearing.

Edit: I now have 7.3 on my 240 S2 box and the S2DT box. Hmm....

I just got 7.3 on my DT box. 7.3TAK. On my other tivo box its 7.3oth. What is the diff. if any between the two?? :confused:

[Gospel]

I successfully enabled stereo by prssing a whole bunch of TiVo remote buttons So, I used software to enable stereo. To me this indicates it is mostly likely fixable with a software patch. This also tells me the current hardware can handle stereo audio from the cable RF signal. Unfornately, my "fix" is only temporary and doesn't survive a reboot.

Yes, I do want to hear from TiVo about this. :( Well, TiVo?

BTW, Lessd, have you been able to use mchips' 7.2.5a trick or my 7.3 trick to enable stereo on your S2DTs?

Thanks,
Steven

Edit: TiVoOpsMgr: I really do appreciate these forums. It gives us TiVo customers a great place to hash out problems like this one. Thanks!

[lessd]

I successfully enabled stereo by prssing a whole bunch of TiVo remote buttons So, I used software to enable stereo. To me this indicates it is mostly likely fixable with a software patch. This also tells me the current hardware can handle stereo audio from the cable RF signal. Unfornately, my "fix" is only temporary and doesn't survive a reboot.

Yes, I do want to hear from TiVo about this. :( Well, TiVo?

BTW, Lessd, have you been able to use mchips' 7.2.5a trick or my 7.3 trick to enable stereo on your S2DTs?

Thanks,
Steven

Edit: TiVoOpsMgr: I really do appreciate these forums. It gives us TiVo customers a great place to hash out problems like this one. Thanks!

I have not tried the trick, when I get some time I will. Does it work on SAP also ??

You may think that by using that trick it's not hardware but don't be too sure of that, TiVo buys the tuners OEM so I sure that the tuner itself is OK but its the interface to the mother board that may be the problem, not just software (if it were just a software switch TiVo would have fixed it). The trick shows me that we have some flaky hardware interface, I do hope I am wrong about that but I have seen this kind of stuff too much to think its just software. (remember the 595 flaky remote problem, turned out it was a hardware problem that required an exchange by Humax but did not effect many users)

I think there is some legal issue here about the requirements for all TV tuner products, I don't think SAP is optional for any TV tuner product, I also think Stereo is also a requirement. The FCC could cause TiVo a big problem if I am correct and it can't be fixed quickly by software.

TiVo....give us feedback please, we all want to help we love the product.

[Gospel]

lessd, once you get the tuners doing stereo, I think the second set of 5 steps is all you need to do enable SAP. But, I don't kow which programs use SAP so I am not sure how to test it.

Enjoy life,
Steven

[lessd]

lessd, once you get the tuners doing stereo, I think the second set of 5 steps is all you need to do enable SAP. But, I don't kow which programs use SAP so I am not sure how to test it.

Enjoy life,
Steven

CBS has it as I tried it on a normal Series 2, you do have to change the channel to have SAP take effect, but once set it will not change even with a re-boot. I don't use SAP but its easy to tell if its on as I don't speak Spanish.

[mchips]

You might want to put your TiVo on a backupUPS. A good APC can be had for $99. But, it won't help with 2 hour outages.

Enjoy life,
Steven I definitely agree, and do have UPS's for all of my TiVo's, as well as my PCs... it really saves the shutdowns and reboots during stormy season, so I'd definitely recommend one or more to others... :up:

[JasonRossSmith]

I'm gong to try this.

One question though. WHat does the code "Select-Play-Select-InstantReplay-Select." do?

[lessd]

I'm gong to try this.

One question though. WHat does the code "Select-Play-Select-InstantReplay-Select." do?

With V7.3 nothing

[JasonRossSmith]

With V7.3 nothing


Ok sorry should have specified I'm still on 7.2.5a-01-2-649 and deciding to try the sequence for academic purposes prior to getting the 7.3 release....

Nevrmind, found the little info bar at the botom of the screen when I did it. Doing it agian reverses it.

[JasonRossSmith]

Additional question. Has anyone gotten (or know of someone who has) one of the new TCD649180 180hr DT units? Do these have the same stero sound issue?

I don't know that I would want to pay the extra $100 each the 180hr DT units cost, but if it truly fixes the issue, it might be worth it.

[mchips]

Additional question. Has anyone gotten (or know of someone who has) one of the new TCD649180 180hr DT units? Do these have the same stereo sound issue?

I don't know that I would want to pay the extra $100 each the 180hr DT units cost, but if it truly fixes the issue, it might be worth it. I don't know of anyone who has the 180hr DT units (and I'm not sure they're even available yet), but the only real difference between the two should be the hard drive, and therefore in theory shouldn't have any affect on the stereo issue... I've installed 400 GB drives in my DT's, essentially making each of mine 444 hour units... the size of the drives in these DT units shouldn't make a difference with the stereo...

This appears to be a software issue rather than a hardware issue... once we get the stereo working on both tuners, it can be changed back and forth between mono and stereo at will, easily, by just changing the audio setting as you normally would, until the unit is restarted again, then it's tricky to get both tuners back to stereo again... but once we do, it seems fine...

[Gospel]

When checking for SAP, I lost stereo sound. It has taken over a dozen times trying the my steps mentioned above. The S-P-S-Replay-S may be a red herring and unneccessary but I haven't successed without it. After over a dozen attempts, I finaly got stereo working again.

Unless thre is something significant, I am not going to touch the audio settings anymore. Uhg!

BTW, I nover managed to get SAP working.

Enjoy life!
Steven

[lessd]

I don't know of anyone who has the 180hr DT units (and I'm not sure they're even available yet), but the only real difference between the two should be the hard drive, and therefore in theory shouldn't have any affect on the stereo issue... I've installed 400 GB drives in my DT's, essentially making each of mine 444 hour units... the size of the drives in these DT units shouldn't make a difference with the stereo...

This appears to be a software issue rather than a hardware issue... once we get the stereo working on both tuners, it can be changed back and forth between mono and stereo at will, easily, by just changing the audio setting as you normally would, until the unit is restarted again, then it's tricky to get both tuners back to stereo again... but once we do, it seems fine...

In software once a switch is set its set you could be correct but I think flaky hardware interface is causing this problem (I do hope it is software I would love to wrong in this case so we don't have to go through the exchange problem) Your trick or work around just sets up the hardware interface correctly but that not a solution.

TiVo, give us some guidance

[Gospel]

Yet, now with my DT connected in the same manner to the same receiver, I do get stereo but the Tivo is no longer passing ProLogic. (It does make very faint squirrel noises like chirping or squealing in the back speakers when set to ProLogic however).
Are you sure you are getting stereo sound from the S2DT? Are you using the RF coax from the wall jack or a cable box? We have the RF coax going to our S2DTs. At least two folks in this thread initially reported getting stereo sound but later recanted and said it was actually mono. Please, listen carefully to the sound.

Thanks,
Steven

[lessd]

Are you sure you are getting stereo sound from the S2DT? Are you using the RF coax from the wall jack or a cable box? We have the RF coax going to our S2DTs. At least two folks in this thread initially reported getting stereo sound but later recanted and said it was actually mono. Please, listen carefully to the sound.

Thanks,
Steven

The best way to test is using SAP, ABC and sometimes CBS does use SAP. If you can't get SAP the system has a problem, as for some systems Stereo is hard to tell SAP is not. (if you have another Series 2 non DT you can find out the stations that are using SAP quickly some just put music on the SAP)

[Abner]

It would still be nice if TiVo posted to tell us that they know of the problem and are trying to fix it, I have a case number on this problem but they do not admit to me that its a universal problem; they will look into it.

Last Tuesday I called TiVo to get an update top my case. They once again wanted me to explain how my units were connected and again continue to claim that they have no other report of this problem. After being transferred three times and ending up in Level 3 support, they told me that they would talk to engineering and that someone would call be back. Six days later, I have still not received a call.

When I was talking to Level 3 support I asked them to check how many times I had called and still was getting the same answer from them, "We have not reports of this problem". They told me that I had called 17 times. It seems that every time they transfer you from one level to another, they count it as another call. But I have made at least five calls, which always result in being transferred to several levels of support. I have spent many hours trying to get answer from TiVo, but they refuse to accept that there is a problem or that anyone else is reporting this problem.

I think we should try to get CNN or some other News agency to pick up on this thread/problem. Maybe that is the only way that we will get an answer from TiVo.

[Dan203]

You need to relax! TiVo's tech support is handled by a 3rd party company, so you can't expect them to know about every bug TiVo is working on. I can assure you that the right people know about this thread and are looking into the problem. However you have to be patient. TiVo is not like a PC software vendor. They can't just throw together a fix and release it on the internet the next day. They have process of qualifying upgrades before releasing them and that process takes time.

If this really bothers you then I suggest you head to your local RadioShack for splitter cable. That way you can split the whit output (that's where mono audio comes from) into two and trick your receiver into thinking it's stereo. Obviously not a permanent solution, but it should make it sound better then what you're getting now.

Dan

[Abner]

You need to relax! TiVo's tech support is handled by a 3rd party company, so you can't expect them to know about every bug TiVo is working on. I can assure you that the right people know about this thread and are looking into the problem. However you have to be patient. TiVo is not like a PC software vendor. They can't just throw together a fix and release it on the internet the next day. They have process of qualifying upgrades before releasing them and that process takes time.

Dan


Dan,

I realize that it may take some time to fix this problem, but why does TiVo support keep telling everyone that they have not heard of this problem. How much time does it take to connect a S2DT, verify the problem and let the support group know that they are working on a resolution. Even if support is done by 3rd party, they should have a database of reported problems and pending resolutions. And if they don't, TiVo should get another 3rd party to handle their support. There is no acceptable excuse why 1 1/2 months into this known problem, TiVo or their support team are not telling customers that they are aware of the problem and are working on a resolution.

It's just good business to keep your customers happy and informed. I work for a very large company and some of our help desk is outsourced to 3rd parties and I can assure you that we would not allow a problem to go 1 1/2 months without addressing it and have our help desk continue to tell our customers that we are not aware of any problems.

Tivo needs to let their customers know that they are doing something to fix this problem.

[Gospel]

Dan,

Like Abner said, we are not looking for a fix right this minute. We can wait on a patch if we know one is coming. We just want to know if this is really a software or hardware isue like it seems to be. Also, tech support should be able to search their internal knowledgebase and see that, yes, this is a known issue and it is being worked. Like with Abner, is very fustrating to keep hearing support say "We have not heard of this".

BTW, you probably have seen on page 3 that we (consumers) have found a work around (albeit very difficult, complex, and only temporary) to enable stereo.

Thanks,
Steven

[lessd]

Normally on problems less important than this one the TiVoOpsMgr posts something to put us at rest. He even posted on not having the temp show on the SI screen with new software 7.3, that really unimportant to most users. I don't know about the rest of you but I would like to hear something from TiVo on this.

How bad is fixing this problem going to be !!!

I am re-adding what I said before about how TiVoOpsMgr has kept us up to date on other issues of less importantance.....why the deafening silence on this problem !!!!!

Nobody asking for a fast fix just admit to the problem and say your working on it before somebody does go to the press. This is a Quote from Abner 12:54Pm today (I think we should try to get CNN or some other News agency to pick up on this thread/problem. Maybe that is the only way that we will get an answer from TiVo. )

[mchips]

Abner,

Believe it or not, most people probably didn't even notice it.

I didn't, and I got my DT's immediately after they went on sale.

I didn't notice the stereo issue until a few days ago when someone pointed it and this thread out to me, which was started less than a month ago...

Didn't someone do a poll here with a good percentage responding that they were not having any problems with stereo... so, either they weren't, or they just didn't or couldn't notice it...

Having managed technical support myself, I'm very well aware that issues can take time to surface, be identified, and fixed... I would bet good money that if I got ahold of your company's technical support database that we would find many issues going unresolved for months at a time... granted, they should be the exception, but it does happen, and probably more often than you realize, contrary to people's expectations... everywhere... only in the Twilight Zone or on SciFi would it not... gotta keep it real...

Unfortunately, a high percentage of problems reported by users to a help desk are user-errors, so it's not as simple as someone reported it so it must be a problem, because a high percentage are not real problems... it turns out that this stereo issue is, and my experience with TiVo has shown that they will give this the serious attention that it needs... I have reported all of my findings to TiVo, and rest assured they are addressing it... we just can't expect that it will be fixed tomorrow...

I stand behind and agree with Dan's post completely... relax, it's not worth getting worked-up over... I'm sure there are more worthwhile causes to put ours and CNN's energy into, like world hunger, or the war on terrorism...

Or better yet, how about getting Invasion, Surface and Threshold renewed... now that's a cause I can rally behind... :)

[lessd]

Abner,

Believe it or not, most people probably didn't even notice it.

I didn't, and I got my DT's immediately after they went on sale.

I didn't notice the stereo issue until a few days ago when someone pointed it and this thread out to me, which was started less than a month ago...

Didn't someone do a poll here with a good percentage responding that they were not having any problems with stereo... so, either they weren't, or they just didn't or couldn't notice it...

Having managed technical support myself, I'm very well aware that issues can take time to surface, be identified, and fixed... I would bet good money that if I got ahold of your company's technical support database that we would find many issues going unresolved for months at a time... granted, they should be the exception, but it does happen, and probably more often than you realize, contrary to people's expectations... everywhere... only in the Twilight Zone or on SciFi would it not... gotta keep it real...

Unfortunately, a high percentage of problems reported by users to a help desk are user-errors, so it's not as simple as someone reported it so it must be a problem, because a high percentage are not real problems... it turns out that this stereo issue is, and my experience with TiVo has shown that they will give this the serious attention that it needs... I have reported all of my findings to TiVo, and rest assured they are addressing it... we just can't expect that it will be fixed tomorrow...

I stand behind and agree with Dan's post completely... relax, it's not worth getting worked-up over... I'm sure there are more worthwhile causes to put ours and CNN's energy into, like world hunger, or the war on terrorism...

Or better yet, how about getting Invasion, Surface and Threshold renewed... now that's a cause I can rally behind... :)

Do you have an in with TiVo that the rest of us don't have ?? I don't mean this in any derogatory sense but if you really do (like your friends with a TiVo engineer or something) it sure would make me and maybe the rest of us feel better about this problem.

[mchips]

Do you have an in with TiVo that the rest of us don't have ?? I don't mean this in any derogatory sense but if you really do (like your friends with a TiVo engineer or something) it sure would make me and maybe the rest of us feel better about this problem. No, I just used a little more honey than vinegar... ;)

(and perhaps was able to provide a little more in depth details about the problem than most)

[Abner]

Abner,


I didn't notice the stereo issue until a few days ago when someone pointed it and this thread out to me, which was started less than a month ago...

...I have reported all of my findings to TiVo, and rest assured they are addressing it... we just can't expect that it will be fixed tomorrow...

I stand behind and agree with Dan's post completely... relax, it's not worth getting worked-up over...

I was probably the first person to notice this problem and I was the one who started this Thread. I too got my S2DTs right after they came out and I reported this problem to TiVo within a week.

Like I have stated before, it gets very frustrating when after talking to 17 or 18 different people at Tivo, I get the same answer, basically, your problem doesn't exist.

Dan and you may know some people, but the rest of us do not, and we keep getting the same response.

Via a call to support, I would just like to have TiVo tell me that it is aware of this problem and that it is working on a resolution. If they are, why doesn't the support desk know of it by now? And, no I am not happy with the answer that it just takes time, and that's just how most help desks work.

I just want to know if it's a hardware or a software problem. If it's software, I will keep my units and wait for the fix, but if it is a hardware problem, I want to know so I can return both of my units.

I just don't understand how it can take the Help Desk and TiVo so long address this problem. Many people have called with this same problem. It's been over a month and for me that's a long time.

[Gospel]

Mchips, my poll currently shows:

Stereo: 4
Mono: 9
I don't know: 3

One or two of those "Stereo" responders may have wanted to change their vote to "mono" because there are two people that have switched in this thread and said that yes their S2DTs were mono.

Abner, I noticed the mono sound on day one when I hooked up my S2DT back on May 5th. But, my S2DT was having bad reboot problems. So mono sound was lower on my list. I am glad you started this thread. The reboots have gone away so now I can concentrate on this mono issue.

Edit: the link to the poll is on page 1 of this thread.

Thanks!
Steven

[Gospel]

BTW, it is the way that my sound system is setup and my speakers are arragned that strongly emphesizes the "mono-ality" of the audio. If my TiVo was hooked up to a TV that is 15' away using the TV's internal speakers, I'd probably not cared about this issue or have even noticed.

Enjoy life!
Steven

[Abner]

I just got off the phone with TiVo. And once again they basically stated that did see a trend with this problem, that they weren't sure that a problem exists.

Well, I asked to be transferred to the RMA department and I now have RMA numbers for both of my TiVos along with their wireless adapters. They will both be disconnected tonight and will be sent back tomorrow.

I will monitor this thread and if the issue is ever resolved, I may order some new TiVos. However, I am not impressed with their customer support, so I will really have to give it some thought before I get another TiVo(s).

Hopefully by returning my TiVos and making it perfectly clear why I am returning them, they may decide to look into this problem and let their customers KNOW that they are working on it.

Good Luck and I hope that TiVo doesn't make you wait too long for a fix.

[starneml]

i have a Radio Shack RF Modulator that actually modulates to an MTS Stereo Signal. My test (so I dont have to hunt down a channel) is done by using an MP3 I created with one song in the left channel and a completely differnet song in the right channel and feed that baseband audio into the RF modulator and then feed that via channel 3 or 4 into the DT.

Very easy to tell Stereo (seperate audio) or Mono (mixed in both speakers)

[JasonRossSmith]

I don't know of anyone who has the 180hr DT units (and I'm not sure they're even available yet), but the only real difference between the two should be the hard drive, and therefore in theory shouldn't have any affect on the stereo issue... I've installed 400 GB drives in my DT's, essentially making each of mine 444 hour units... the size of the drives in these DT units shouldn't make a difference with the stereo...

This appears to be a software issue rather than a hardware issue... once we get the stereo working on both tuners, it can be changed back and forth between mono and stereo at will, easily, by just changing the audio setting as you normally would, until the unit is restarted again, then it's tricky to get both tuners back to stereo again... but once we do, it seems fine...


Oh, understand and agree that a simple hard drive difference would not affect the software or other hardware differences.

However, what I was really trying to ask is:


Does the 180hr DT unit come loaded with a different software version since it was just released? (FYI, it is indeed available at both Tivo.com and Bestbuy.com)
Does the 180hr DT unit have any hardware differences, say a physically different tuner(s)?


Those things could indeed have an impact.

[mchips]

Gospel, thanks for the numbers... I probably should have taken the time myself to go find that poll again...

I couldn't remember the numbers, but I remembered there weren't that many people reporting the stereo/mono problem...

You should do another poll, of those 9 who reported that they have the problem, how many have actually called TiVo Support, and of those, how many didn't call until after this thread and that poll... so, I'm not at all surprised that TiVo may not be getting a lot of calls on this, based on those numbers...

I think this thread was a good idea to help bring it to people's attention, as it got me to realize it was a problem, and then to work on a work-around... I think the threats are unnecessary, though... TiVo tends to do more with its software and for its customers than most companies do...

Abner, sorry to see you feel that you need to return them... just when some progress was beginning to be made... it almost makes me feel like I may have wasted my time coming to this thread and working on this issue myself to offer a work-around while TiVo works on a fix...

But, I'm happy with my DT's... I have stereo on all three of them now... I didn't know it was a problem until a few days ago myself... ignorance is bliss... but I trust that TiVo will get this fxed...

Has anyone here actually emailed TiVoOpsMgr or TiVoPony about this thread and this problem? I've seen a couple of people mention that they've seen these two respond to problems in other threads, but not this one... I know people were emailing them in droves on those other issues, so they in turn responded to those threads... in just a few days, those other threads are getting more replies from TCF users than this thread has in almost a month... so, while this issue is important to some, and rightfully so, it still doesn't even seem to be a priority among those users here on the TCF...

But has anyone actually emailed either of them to bring this thread to their attention as well... I'm sure they'd respond if they knew about it, and had time to research the issue a bit...

Abner, I strongly believe they'll get it fixed, and it won't require anyone returning their units... but even if all 9 here did, it would still be a small percentage, and wouldn't be what gets them to fix it... the problem just needs to get in front of the right individual(s), which I believe it now is, or will be... my experience with TiVo over the past 3-1/2 years gives me great trust in what they do, and how they do it...

[lessd]

From MCHIPS Has anyone here actually emailed TiVoOpsMgr or TiVoPony about this thread and this problem? I've seen a couple of people mention that they've seen these two respond to problems in other threads, but not this one... I know people were emailing them in droves on those other issues, so they in turn responded to those threads... in just a few days, those other threads are getting more replies from TCF users than this thread has in almost a month... so, while this issue is important to some, and rightfully so, it still doesn't even seem to be a priority among those users here on the TCF...

I just did E-Mail E. Stephen Mack to read this Thread, we will see.

[Gospel]

This thread has today went to 100+ posts, 4 pages, and 2,000+ views. There are just 5 to 7 of us posting/updaing the thread. So there are quite a few folks who seem interested but not posting.

[mchips]

2,000 views sounds like a lot, and I know many of those views are mine alone...

But to maybe help put it in perspective a bit, it has taken almost a month to get those 2,000 plus views, while the the 7.3 - Internal Termperature issue and v7.3 is here threads were both just started only three days ago and already have over 1,700 and 4,000 views each, respectively... so, based on the responses here on TCF relative to other issues, I can fully see where TiVo may not have gotten a lot of calls on this...

I'm not saying this mono issue isn't important, because it definitely is... it's just an issue that hasn't gotten much notice, until now, relatively speaking, although I believe this thread is helping, and I've been trying to do my part in getting this in front of TiVo as well...

[Abner]

Abner, sorry to see you feel that you need to return them... just when some progress was beginning to be made... it almost makes me feel like I may have wasted my time coming to this thread and working on this issue myself to offer a work-around while TiVo works on a fix...

Abner, I strongly believe they'll get it fixed, and it won't require anyone returning their units... but even if all 9 here did, it would still be a small percentage, and wouldn't be what gets them to fix it... the problem just needs to get in front of the right individual(s), which I believe it now is, or will be... my experience with TiVo over the past 3-1/2 years gives me great trust in what they do, and how they do it...

It's too late. TiVo already shows both of my TiVos cancelled. Both TiVos have been disconnected and I am just getting ready to pack them up. And honestly I feel very good about it. This issue was REALLY ticking me off! For over a month I called the Support Line, and got no where with them. I don't know who these other people that you mention are, and I should not have to. Support should be the only place I need to contact, and they should have answers. It was almost 1 1/2 months that I tried to work with this issue. I just finally couldn't take any more.

Hopefully you are right and TiVo will address this issue. If they do, I will consider getting Tivos again. But for now I will just have to live with my Panasonic DVR.

[Budget_HT]

i have a Radio Shack RF Modulator that actually modulates to an MTS Stereo Signal. My test (so I dont have to hunt down a channel) is done by using an MP3 I created with one song in the left channel and a completely differnet song in the right channel and feed that baseband audio into the RF modulator and then feed that via channel 3 or 4 into the DT.

Very easy to tell Stereo (seperate audio) or Mono (mixed in both speakers)
Is that RS modulator a current product or an old one?

I would like to get one if they are out there.

TIA!

[starneml]

Is that RS modulator a current product or an old one?

I would like to get one if they are out there.

TIA!
I got it about 2 years ago i think. atalog #15-2525. It doesnt look like the sell it alone anymore, but as part of the Easy Answers Stereo DVD Install Kit #15-2541

[Budget_HT]

I got it about 2 years ago i think. atalog #15-2525. It doesnt look like the sell it alone anymore, but as part of the Easy Answers Stereo DVD Install Kit #15-2541
Thanks. I saw the kit online. Too bad it is not a frequency agile modulator instead of just a channel 3/4..

[amberdaisie]

Well quite a few of those views have been mine aswell. My first Tivo is coming today and I'm anxious to know whether it has this problem aswell. So I'm sure many others might be concerned as well.

2,000 views sounds like a lot, and I know many of those views are mine alone...

[Abner]

I don't know that I would want to pay the extra $100 each the 180hr DT units cost, but if it truly fixes the issue, it might be worth it.

If anyone has the new 180 DT, can they check if they have this problem. I know that a different hard drive should not make a difference, but the Humax 80 had a ton of problems that the Humax 40 doesn't have. By boss went through 4 bad Humax 80s before he gave up and switched to the Humax 40. TiVo doesn't sell the Humax 80 anymore. So, it is possible that this problem is specific to the S2DT 80, and the new S2DT 180 may not be affected.

If I can be assured that the S2DT 180 doesn't have this problem, I would certainly pay the extra $100 to get one, and after I verified that it worked properly, order a second one.

[TiVoPony]

Hey guys,

We are aware of the issue, thank you to those that brought it to our attention. We're looking into it!

Pony

[Dan203]

And there is your official word!

Now you can just relax and wait for the fix. :)

Dan

[lessd]

Hey guys,

We are aware of the issue, thank you to those that brought it to our attention. We're looking into it!

Pony


Thank you, Thank you, no more calls to the CSRs, we will all be glad to wait for the solution.

[Abner]

I guess we "Got it straight from the horses mouth" :)

[raven27]

I have the new S2 DT too and my sound works from 2 too 99 and I will not hear nothing from 101 and up.This is the thread I made http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=303190

[mchips]

I just thought I'd add an additional observation that I feel supports this being more of a software related issue rather than a hardware related one.

If I have one of my DT's only getting mono, and I transfer a recording from one of my single-tuner or DT TiVo's that was recorded in stereo, it'll play in stereo on that DT just fine, even though Live TV and the programs recorded on this DT TiVo only play in mono... Thus, the DT has no problem playing the stereo track; the problem is that it gets stuck at only recording the mono track... but once I get my DT's to recording the stereo track on both tuners with our work-arounds, it's easy to switch between mono and stereo normally after that, until a reboot, and then the process with the work-arounds starts over again...

I use my work-around for my 7.2.5a boxes, and then a combination of that work-around and Gospel's to get my 7.3 box to stereo... note I don't have to do the Select-Play-Select-InstantReplay-Select to get it to work... although it does seem a bit trickier with v7.3 than v7.2.5a...

This Audio setting seems to only affect which of the three audio tracks that TiVo records, and not necessarily which one it is able to play. It seems, by design, TiVo will only record one of the audio tracks, and not all three (either mono, stereo, or SAP). This setting tells it which of those audio tracks to record, and it will then play whichever audio track it is/has recorded... it has no problem playing stereo, and will play a program transferred from another TiVo recorded in stereo just fine... i.e., it has no problem playing stereo... the software is just having a problem initially getting both tuners set to record the stereo track... but once it does, it's fine...

Btw, thanks Pony for responding to this thread!

[lessd]

I have the new S2 DT too and my sound works from 2 too 99 and I will not hear nothing from 101 and up.This is the thread I made http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=303190

This is a different problem than we have on this Thread, here are talking about not getting SAP or Stereo on the DT Tivos using the 2 internal TiVo tuners. You are using one internal tuner for the 1st input and the A/V input for your 2nd input. its that 2nd input that not giving you any sound,

See if your channels 2-99 have Stereo and SAP capabilities.

[lessd]

I just thought I'd add an additional observation that I feel supports this being more of a software related issue rather than a hardware related one.

If I have one of my DT's only getting mono, and I transfer a recording from one of my single-tuner or DT TiVo's that was recorded in stereo, it'll play in stereo on that DT just fine, even though Live TV and the programs recorded on this DT TiVo only play in mono... Thus, the DT has no problem playing the stereo track; the problem is that it gets stuck at only recording the mono track... but once I get my DT's to recording the stereo track on both tuners with our work-arounds, it's easy to switch between mono and stereo normally after that, until a reboot, and then the process with the work-arounds starts over again...

I use my work-around for my 7.2.5a boxes, and then a combination of that work-around and Gospel's to get my 7.3 box to stereo... note I don't have to do the Select-Play-Select-InstantReplay-Select to get it to work... although it does seem a bit trickier with v7.3 than v7.2.5a...

.
This Audio setting seems to only affect which of the three audio tracks that TiVo records, and not necessarily which one it is able to play. It seems, by design, TiVo will only record one of the audio tracks, and not all three (either mono, stereo, or SAP). This setting tells it which of those audio tracks to record, and it will then play whichever audio track it is/has recorded... it has no problem playing stereo, and will play a program transferred from another TiVo recorded in stereo just fine... i.e., it has no problem playing stereo... the software is just having a problem initially getting both tuners set to record the stereo track... but once it does, it's fine...

Btw, thanks Pony for responding to this thread!

What you are describing is the interface between the Tuners audio output and the mother board, there is no problem between the HD audio and the mother board as stereo can be recorded from using the AV input. So I still contend that there is a good chance this may be a hardware problem between the internal tuners and the motherboard. Its that interface that the Mono, SAP, and Stereo is made by a software switch. When you jiggle this switch enough the Stereo comes through, that tells me the software switch (or some part of it) is working.

[mchips]

What you are describing is the interface between the Tuners audio output and the mother board, there is no problem between the HD audio and the mother board as stereo can be recorded from using the AV input. So I still contend that there is a good chance this may be a hardware problem between the internal tuners and the motherboard. Its that interface that the Mono, SAP, and Stereo is made by a software switch. When you jiggle this switch enough the Stereo comes through, that tells me the software switch (or some part of it) is working. <deleted original response, as I misunderstood what you were initially trying to say>

At least we have confirmed that there is a problem, and that there is a work-around, and TiVo is now working on it... I still believe it's most likely software-related (for many reasons), and you're welcome to believe that it's hardware-related... only time and the eventual fix will tell...

As far as the software switch "partially" working and requiring "jiggling", yes it could be, I guess, and maybe we just haven't found the sequence yet that will work 100%, with the problem being the software is not encoded entirely yet to handle two tuners effectively, since we have to seemingly go through these steps for each tuner, after which a single change will affect both tuners simultaneously as it should, as the TiVo software only had to be concerned with a single tuner until now (with the exception of the DirecTiVo, and I'm sure they weren't able to just bring the code over from that box as-is)...

I often easily get it to work on one tuner first, and then the trick seems to be getting it to work on the second tuner as well, as toggling the Audio setting seems to get stuck on the one tuner, instead of both, where eventually we're able to get both tuners...

But the TiVo team will probably try and address it both from a software and a potentially hardware-related issue, as they probably should... so I will concede that the possibility is there that it could be hardware-related, but all of my testing seems to point more to software, to me, but then I can't see or play with the code either, and can only speculate based on my personal experiences and observations...

Les, have you been able to get stereo working on your DT's yet?

[Gospel]

Mchips, by "jiggle", lessd ment that we digitally jiggled the tuners, not physically touching anything besides lots of remote buttons. :)

Thanks TiVoPony. So, is it hardware or software? Just kidding! :D

Thanks,
Steven

[lessd]

<deleted original response, as I misunderstood what you were initially trying to say>

At least we have confirmed that there is a problem, and that there is a work-around, and TiVo is now working on it... I still believe it's most likely software-related (for many reasons), and you're welcome to believe that it's hardware-related... only time and the eventual fix will tell...

As far as the software switch "partially" working and requiring "jiggling", yes it could be, I guess, and maybe we just haven't found the sequence yet that will work 100%, with the problem being the software is not encoded entirely yet to handle two tuners effectively, since we have to seemingly go through these steps for each tuner, after which a single change will affect both tuners simultaneously as it should, as the TiVo software only had to be concerned with a single tuner until now (with the exception of the DirecTiVo, and I'm sure they weren't able to just bring the code over from that box as-is)...

I often easily get it to work on one tuner first, and then the trick seems to be getting it to work on the second tuner as well, as toggling the Audio setting seems to get stuck on the one tuner, instead of both, where eventually we're able to get both tuners...

But the TiVo team will probably try and address it both from a software and a potentially hardware-related issue, as they probably should... so I will concede that the possibility is there that it could be hardware-related, but all of my testing seems to point more to software, to me, but then I can't see or play with the code either, and can only speculate based on my personal experiences and observations...

Les, have you been able to get stereo working on your DT's yet?

I have not tried because my wife is using the unit and has not noticed the difference, (when she was out I tested the DT it was in Mono) if the DT were in my den with surround sound I would be working on this. The two other units are at my kids homes and I don't want to tell them anything unless they ask. It will be easier for me when TiVo fixes the problem hopefully before my wife and kids notice.

[narnia777]

I just got 7.3 and have no luck in getting eithor tuner back in stereo.

Glad I don't record from basic cable often, of course stereo on the Dish Network (svideo, audio cables) work fine.

Jim

[whitesoxfan06]

I finally got my S2DT with 7.3 hooked up to a decent stereo and was able to get both tuners into stereo using the method Gospel described (THANKS!). The first tuner switched right away, but it took me nearly 1/2 and hour to get the second one into stereo.

[zebo51]

I got my S2DT about a month ago and haven't noticed any mono issues. I do have the issue when using TTG and some of the recordings have no audio. Anyway, I was just wondering what is an easy test to confirm the mono/stereo issue. Is it possible that mine got set right during setup? But I have rebooted since then so it should go to mono by default like others are seeing.

Here is my setup. First I am still on 7.2.5a. After reading a lot of the issues with 7.3 on this board I have chosen to keep mine from updating right now. I am using a digital cable box. I have the RF splitter right off the wall, then one going to my digital cable box and the other to the Tivo. My digital cable box uses component out to the component IN on my Tivo. Component out #1 on the Tivo connects to my component #1 IN on my A/V receiver which is a all in one unit consisting of a DVD player and radio. I then have component out #2 on the Tivo going to component IN #2 on my A/V Rec. From my A/V Rec I have S-video out to my TV which is for the DVD player only. I then have component #1 out on my A/V-R to my TV.

My TV is an older RCA Home Theater model and has left/right speakers and in the menu I have it set to stereo. It wont allow me to set it to anything else. So no matter if I have the sound on the TV up or playing through my A/V Rec, both tuners are playing in stereo. This is using the Sci-Fi channel as a test.

My Tivo is set to Main Audio (stereo).

How should I hook up my setup differently to test to see if my Tivo has the same mono issues, or is mine working like it should? Could my AV Rec be making it seem like it is in stereo?

I would like to help verify if all S2DTs show the same symptoms, but I also don't want to take a chance on messing it up.

I have several different sound fields and I will list the results of each below:

Game: Sound from FL/FR and RL/RR - no center
2 CH Stereo: Sound from FL/FR - no center or RL/RR
Auto Decoding: Same as 2CH Stereo
Normal Surround: center speaker only
Cinema Studio Ex A: Sound from Center and RL/RR, no FL/FR
Cinema Studio Ex B: Sound from all 5 spkrs
Cinema Studio Ex C: Same as B
Hall, Jazz Club and Live Concert have sound on all but center.

Thanks

[angel35]

If i use the settings on the 8300HD and click on SAP fromtheSAPS2 DT or from 8300HD???

What im trying to say is will i get SAP from the :confused 8300HD or the S2 DT??

[lessd]

I got my S2DT about a month ago and haven't noticed any mono issues. I do have the issue when using TTG and some of the recordings have no audio. Anyway, I was just wondering what is an easy test to confirm the mono/stereo issue. Is it possible that mine got set right during setup? But I have rebooted since then so it should go to mono by default like others are seeing.

Here is my setup. First I am still on 7.2.5a. After reading a lot of the issues with 7.3 on this board I have chosen to keep mine from updating right now. I am using a digital cable box. I have the RF splitter right off the wall, then one going to my digital cable box and the other to the Tivo. My digital cable box uses component out to the component IN on my Tivo. Component out #1 on the Tivo connects to my component #1 IN on my A/V receiver which is a all in one unit consisting of a DVD player and radio. I then have component out #2 on the Tivo going to component IN #2 on my A/V Rec. From my A/V Rec I have S-video out to my TV which is for the DVD player only. I then have component #1 out on my A/V-R to my TV.


My TV is an older RCA Home Theater model and has left/right speakers and in the menu I have it set to stereo. It wont allow me to set it to anything else. So no matter if I have the sound on the TV up or playing through my A/V Rec, both tuners are playing in stereo. This is using the Sci-Fi channel as a test.

My Tivo is set to Main Audio (stereo).

How should I hook up my setup differently to test to see if my Tivo has the same mono issues, or is mine working like it should? Could my AV Rec be making it seem like it is in stereo?

I would like to help verify if all S2DTs show the same symptoms, but I also don't want to take a chance on messing it up.

I have several different sound fields and I will list the results of each below:

Game: Sound from FL/FR and RL/RR - no center
2 CH Stereo: Sound from FL/FR - no center or RL/RR
Auto Decoding: Same as 2CH Stereo
Normal Surround: center speaker only
Cinema Studio Ex A: Sound from Center and RL/RR, no FL/FR
Cinema Studio Ex B: Sound from all 5 spkrs
Cinema Studio Ex C: Same as B
Hall, Jazz Club and Live Concert have sound on all but center.

Thanks

Your cable box recordings and live TV using the cable box will be in Stereo so no problem there. To check the RF input of the TiVo, the easy way is to set your DT to SAP and go to ABC or PBS and see if you get a different sound channel. To make sure that your not using the cable box, temperally disconnect it from the TiVo.

Its probably not worth the effort as TiVo admitted to the problem and will fix it at some point, many people will have a hard time telling the difference, I didn't until I read this post but I was not using the DT on a separate great stereo system with great speakers. Most small TV stereo systems are not that great that one would walk into a room and say what happend to your Stereo on that TV.

[Gospel]

Its probably not worth the effort as TiVo admitted to the problem and will fix it at some point ...[/I]

I didn't hear TiVo admit anything about this mono only problem. As I understood TiVoPony's post, TiVo is just seriously looking into it. That's good enough for me for now. I've got stereo for the moment eventhough it is only a temporary fix.

Enjoy life!
Steven

[lessd]

I didn't hear TiVo admit anything about this mono only problem. As I understood TiVoPony's post, TiVo is just seriously looking into it. That's good enough for me for now. I've got stereo for the moment eventhough it is only a temporary fix.

Enjoy life!
Steven

OK I should not have used the word admit

[Abner]

I didn't hear TiVo admit anything about this mono only problem. As I understood TiVoPony's post, TiVo is just seriously looking into it. That's good enough for me for now. I've got stereo for the moment eventhough it is only a temporary fix.


TiVo actually called me back last Thursday to tell me, that they have acknowledged that there is problem and that they didn't have a fix, but wanted to let me know that they were working on it. So yes, they have admitted that they are aware that they have a problem with the S2DT not playing Stereo.

I told them that it was nice that they finally called back, but that I had already returned my TiVos. I shipped them last Wednesday and they receive them Friday morning.

I told them that I would continue to monitor this thread and that I would order new ones when they fix the problem.


I think that they were surprised that I return both of my TiVos. I told them that it had been close to 1 1/2 months that I and others had been calling with this problem, and we were all getting the same answer, that there was no problem and that no one else was reporting this problem. I made sure they understood how frustrated and disappointed I was with their customer service.

Well, it took some time, but they finally admitted that the problem exists and are looking into it. Hopefully the fix won't take too long.

[lessd]

TiVo actually called me back last Thursday to tell me, that they have acknowledged that there is problem and that they didn't have a fix, but wanted to let me know that they were working on it. So yes, they have admitted that they are aware that they have a problem with the S2DT not playing Stereo.

I told them that it was nice that they finally called back, but that I had already returned my TiVos. I shipped them last Wednesday and they receive them Friday morning.

I told them that I would continue to monitor this thread and that I would order new ones when they fix the problem.


I think that they were surprised that I return both of my TiVos. I told them that it had been close to 1 1/2 months that I and others had been calling with this problem, and we were all getting the same answer, that there was no problem and that no one else was reporting this problem. I made sure they understood how frustrated and disappointed I was with their customer service.

Well, it took some time, but they finally admitted that the problem exists and are looking into it. Hopefully the fix won't take too long.

So it was OK to use the word admit, I just hope that we are not talking hardware because that would be a real problem for all, but unfortunally I think it is hardware.

[Abner]

Yes, the girl that called me back admitted that it was a problem and that they were working on it.

[Gospel]

OK, then I retract my pevious statement.

Thanks,
Steven

[jfh3]

Yes, the girl that called me back admitted that it was a problem and that they were working on it.

Did she say anything about it being a hardware or a software problem?

[Dan203]

The fact that people are able to coerce the units into producing Stereo suggests that it's a software problem. Or that at the very least it's something that can be fixed via software.

Dan

[jfh3]

The fact that people are able to coerce the units into producing Stereo suggests that it's a software problem. Or that at the very least it's something that can be fixed via software.

From what I've read so far, I would agree. But it would be nice to have confirmation from those that actually know ...

[rainwater]

The fact that people are able to coerce the units into producing Stereo suggests that it's a software problem. Or that at the very least it's something that can be fixed via software.

Dan

Not necessarily. The fact that it requires certain actions could be a result of using a piece of hardware that does not work as it was intended. If this is the case, it may be difficult to even provide a software hack to fix the issue in all cases. I hope this is not the case though.

[Gospel]

The fact that people are able to coerce the units into producing Stereo suggests that it's a software problem. Or that at the very least it's something that can be fixed via software.
"coerce"

I like it. That is a very appropriate term in this case. ;)

Enjoy life,
Steven

[lessd]

The fact that people are able to coerce the units into producing Stereo suggests that it's a software problem. Or that at the very least it's something that can be fixed via software.

Dan

I call that jiggle and that is usually (but not always) a hardware problem like a timing race that did not show up in the prototype units when they were tested. I could be wrong but when software is inconsistent the cause is usually by some flakiness in the hardware more times than not. If you could not get it to work at all, that would be most likely be a software switch not programed correctly...we will have to wait and see, so far my kids (in their home) and my wife have not noticed the problem so I am not telling them. (IE. the Temp does not show in v7.3 no matter how many times you try because the software switch to show temp has been left out by error and we know the hardware can show temp as it did in v7.2xx) (The Humax 595 DVD flaky remote action was hardware caused and required a exchange of units to fix it. It was a something in the front panel electronics) So unfortunally not all problems can be fixed by software.

[Dan203]

Another thing that makes me think it's software and not hardware is the fact that a reboot clears the "fix". Even a soft reboot without disconnecting power. If this was a hardware "jiggle" then it would seem like something that would survive a soft reboot.

Dan

[lessd]

Another thing that makes me think it's software and not hardware is the fact that a reboot clears the "fix". Even a soft reboot without disconnecting power. If this was a hardware "jiggle" then it would seem like something that would survive a soft reboot.

Dan

Not so because a reboot would set up the system in a default mode then issue a single software command to put the TiVo in Stereo, so maybe if you did many re-boots you might get to Stereo but this is a moot point as only TiVo engineering is going find the real problem software hardware or both no matter what we say on this form.

[Gospel]

Oh joy! My S2DT says "Pending restart". :( Now, I am going to lose the stereo settings. :(

Would be nice if this is a fix to our mono issue but I doubt it.

My current TiVo software version is : 7.3-oth.M3-01-2-649

I'll let you know what it is after it decides to restart.

Enjoy life,
Steven

[Gospel]

v7.3-oth-01-2-649 (no .M3)

After an hour of effort, I finally got stereo sound back. I wanted to get the inevitable over with before the S2DT did any recordings in mono.

Good night!
Steven

[Abner]

Did she say anything about it being a hardware or a software problem?

Sorry, I forgot to asked. I had already sent both of my TiVos back, so I really wanted to tell them that I sent them back due to their poor customer support and I forgot to ask. I know, some will critize me for using "poor customer support", but that is how I felt and I wanted to make sure they knew why I sent my units back. Other than the Stereo problem, I thought the TiVos were great!

Now that they have admitted that it's a problem, maybe someone else can call and ask. Since I no longer have my TiVos they may not want to talk to me. But if I don't hear anything here in a week or so, I'll call to see if the'll say what the problem is, Hardware or Software. But at this point I think that they will just say that they are still looking into it.

[jfh3]

Other than the Stereo problem, I thought the TiVos were great!


Well, I'm sorry you returned your Tivos, but I understand that was the only way you could get Tivo to understand your frustration with how they originally handled your concern.

Perhaps you'll be back after the problem is identified and fixed.

[Gospel]

From last night's restart and fiddling with the audio settings, the sequence to get stereo back may not be as complicated as I mentioned on Page 3. Still tedious but not that complicated. It may be sufficient to set audio to mono, change channels, set to stereo, change to a stereo channel. If no stereo sound than repeat until it works. Then switch tuners and repeat. Just make sure to not change to the same channel the other tuner is using. It may still take minutes to hours to get it working successfully.

Enjoy life,
Steven

[raven27]

thanks everyone it works now I had too take my cable box back in and get a new one and everything is all good now.

[starneml]

Gospel,

I just noticed I got 7.3-oth overnight on my DT and your simpler processss of switchign to mono, chanign channels, set to stereo, change to a stereo channel works eventually. Tuner one always seems to work the first time. The second tuner took about 30 tries.

[ellfire]

I tried Gospel's "mono to stereo fix v2 (Simplified)" and got it to work after 2-3 tries on both tuners. Only took about 10 minutes. Granted, I could have been lucky, but hopefully I wasn't. My box upgraded to 7.3. I'm not sure of the rest of the software title as I am at work, but it included the addition of the "kids zone" and recently deleted items folder.

[mchips]

I've got it down to just a matter of a few minutes, if even that long, now as well...

I think I've almost got it figured out; I even rebooted one of my DT's three times just to test it out (all of mine are now on 7.3)... getting the first tuner set is easy, and the second tuner seems to be contingent on seemingly passing the focus from the first over to the second... the "jiggling" isn't really jiggling, as it just seems to be toggling the mono/stereo off/on on the same tuner, which I've stated before, until focus is passed to the other tuner (which I think I've just about got a method working almost every time)... once both tuners are set, the change affects both tuners simultaneously, which is what we would expect the behavior to be from the beginning...

And as a couple of others have just stated, the process is now much simpler than how we started out... so we're making progress, and it therefore continues to make me more confident that TiVo will be able to find a software solution to resolve this issue...

[whitesoxfan06]

I've got it down to just a matter of a few minutes, if even that long, now as well...

Well my tivo rebooted for some reason yesterday and I had to go through the whole process again. I did use the newer stereo-mono-stereo method. The first tuner worked after a few tries, but it took about 40 minutes for me to finally get the 2nd one working. Do you have a trick to get the 2nd one in stereo faster?

[lessd]

Don't forget there is no SAP also which is a requirement on this type of product. I don't know anybody that uses SAP but it still must work, I tried to make it work but was unsuccessful (I only spent 10 minutes on one of the tuners) The Stereo and SAP have to be fixed at some point in the near future, I will bet less than 5% of people who have DT units that don't read this BB even know they have a problem. It is still a secret from my wife and kids and my kids have a big stereo system (not surround sound where I am sure mono is more noticeable)

[ellfire]

Well my tivo rebooted for some reason yesterday and I had to go through the whole process again. I did use the newer stereo-mono-stereo method. The first tuner worked after a few tries, but it took about 40 minutes for me to finally get the 2nd one working. Do you have a trick to get the 2nd one in stereo faster?

The only thing that I think could have sped up my process was 1) having come from the land of the DT DirecTV Tivo, I have become very efficient at jumping tuners and remembering which one I was on (using the "switch tuner" icon on the info window of a channel), and 2) I made sure that the two tuners were nowhere near each other in relation to the channel number. Ex. Set tuner 01 using channels 5 & 6 and set tuner 2 using channels 60 & 61.

[ptdevlin]

I still dont like to have to keep entering all the key strokes I live in florida where the power goes off on a daily basis please keep on tivo for a more permant fix . Thanks for the research but we should have a fix not a work around I have been recording in mono .
Pat

[Budget_HT]

ptdevlin,

A UPS would be a good idea if your power fails that often, regardless of the stereo/mono issue.

[Gospel]

My S2DT locked up last night. While watching a recording (via Now Playing) while it was currently being recoreded, I accidentally pressed the [Guide] button. After canelling a couple prompts, the remote stopped responding even though the yellow light lit up on the TiVo. I had to pull the power plug.

After it came back up, I only used the simplified method. Took about 30 minutes but it worked.

BTW, we need to keep this thread on the first page until it gets fixed. As the wheel says, "Squeak, squeak, squeak, ..."

Enjoy life,
Steven

[lessd]

My S2DT locked up last night. While watching a recording (via Now Playing) while it was currently being recoreded, I accidentally pressed the [Guide] button. After canelling a couple prompts, the remote stopped responding even though the yellow light lit up on the TiVo. I had to pull the power plug.

After it came back up, I only used the simplified method. Took about 30 minutes but it worked.

BTW, we need to keep this thread on the first page until it gets fixed. As the wheel says, "Squeak, squeak, squeak, ..."

Enjoy life,
Steven

Don't forget SAP as some people may actully want to record in SAP, it can't be done in the DT units now.

[Gospel]

Of course, SAP too.

[yunlin12]

Thanks all for finding a work around. I turned on stereo for both tuners using this method, took just a couple of minutes, maybe I got lucky.

[Gilgamesch]

I know this is probably a stupid question, but how can you actually tell if you are getting stereo or mono. I just got the new DT and it sounds the same as my old unit.

Phil

[Gospel]

In order to detect the mono vs stereo effect, you need to be using the RF coax into the TiVo, not a cable box. And, you need to use RCA audio cables between the TiVo and the TV or A/V receiver. RF coax between the TiVo and the TV is always mono no matter whichh TiVo mdel you use. TiVos don't re-encode stereo on its RF out because such encoders are more expensive.

If you are using internal TV speakers, you need to get very close to the TV set. Listen carefully. If all audio sounds centered, it is mono. Most commercials and many movies and TV shows use stereo. If you hear sounds that more tot he left or the right, then you have stereo sound.

Also, you can use the menus of your TV (not the TiVo) to force stereo, SAP, or mono. Do you notice a difference in stereo separation if you switch your TV between mono and stereo? If you don't, then the TiVo is putting out a mono signal.

In my case my external stereo speakers are about 2' to the left and rightnof me and the center channel speaker is in front of me. I have the TiVo audio connected to my compter (X-Fi soundcard) which then goes to a 5.1 speaker system.

Enjoy life!
Steven

[Abner]

Has anyone determined or hear if the new S2DT 180s also have the same problem of not playing Stereo without a lot of manual intervention/tweaking or supporting SAP??

[angel35]

Has anyone determined or hear if the new S2DT 180s also have the same problem of not playing Stereo without a lot of manual intervention/tweaking or supporting SAP??

It has the same problems. No Sap or stereo. :down: :confused:

[rainwater]

My S2DT locked up last night. While watching a recording (via Now Playing) while it was currently being recoreded, I accidentally pressed the [Guide] button. After canelling a couple prompts, the remote stopped responding even though the yellow light lit up on the TiVo. I had to pull the power plug.


This is a known bug since 7.2.5a. So far there is no fix for it. DT users are so small, there's not much emphasis on fixing these lockups it seems.

[lessd]

Lets keep this Thread near the top until its fixed as I don't want to juggle my DT to get Stereo.

[tbeckner]

DT users are so small, there's not much emphasis on fixing these lockups it seems.And a smaller number of users, because I am NOT going to buy a DT until it gets fixed. ;)

[mchips]

DT users are so small, there's not much emphasis on fixing these lockups it seems. And a smaller number of users, because I am NOT going to buy a DT until it gets fixed. ;) He doesn't know what point in the process TiVo is with fixing this, nor has the numbers to know how small the DT numbers are or not...

Out of one breath he'll say that bugs take time to fix and test before they're released to the public, then turn around out of the other side of his mouth and say TiVo doesn't care because it does take time.

I have three DT's, all have stereo using the work-around and none have experienced a single lock-up, so I'm very happy with them, and trust that a fix will be forthcoming to fix the mono/stereo issue, just as quickly as the process, that even rainwater recognizes, is possible....

I don't let other people's pessimism, or unique problems, influence my decisions...

[rainwater]

He doesn't know what point in the process TiVo is with fixing this, nor has the numbers to know how small the DT numbers are or not...

Out of one breath he'll say that bugs take time to fix and test before they're released to the public, then turn around out of the other side of his mouth and say TiVo doesn't care because it does take time.


That is not true. It takes time to fix problems. It takes no time to acknowledge they exist instead of wasting people's money having people return DT units for over a month. There is a clear distinction. Frankly, I don't care "when" they fix this issue, I just want to know if they can fix it (that it is not a hardware issue).

[lessd]

That is not true. It takes time to fix problems. It takes no time to acknowledge they exist instead of wasting people's money having people return DT units for over a month. There is a clear distinction. Frankly, I don't care "when" they fix this issue, I just want to know if they can fix it (that it is not a hardware issue).

Amen

[zebo51]

In order to detect the mono vs stereo effect, you need to be using the RF coax into the TiVo, not a cable box. And, you need to use RCA audio cables between the TiVo and the TV or A/V receiver. RF coax between the TiVo and the TV is always mono no matter whichh TiVo mdel you use. TiVos don't re-encode stereo on its RF out because such encoders are more expensive.

If you are using internal TV speakers, you need to get very close to the TV set. Listen carefully. If all audio sounds centered, it is mono. Most commercials and many movies and TV shows use stereo. If you hear sounds that more tot he left or the right, then you have stereo sound.

Also, you can use the menus of your TV (not the TiVo) to force stereo, SAP, or mono. Do you notice a difference in stereo separation if you switch your TV between mono and stereo? If you don't, then the TiVo is putting out a mono signal.

In my case my external stereo speakers are about 2' to the left and rightnof me and the center channel speaker is in front of me. I have the TiVo audio connected to my compter (X-Fi soundcard) which then goes to a 5.1 speaker system.

Enjoy life!
Steven

I still can't seem to determine if mine is in stereo or not. I described my setup in post #132. It seems all of my sound settings from my A/V come from the center speaker. I unplugged the center spkr and can hear sound from both the left and right although it is much softer. The center was much louder. I even set the Tivo to mono and no change.

A quick review:
My provider is Comcast and I am using the Motorola digital cable box. I have a RF splitter off the wall, one end to the Tivo and the other to my cable box. The cable box is connected to my Tivo using RCA cables. My Tivo is connected to my A/V Rec using RCA cables. My A/V Rec is connected to my TV using RCA cables. In my TV, I can't get the audio setting to change from Stereo, so I just turned the TV sound all the way down.

My Tivo system info:
Ver: 7.3-oth-01-2-649
Prog Src 1: Cable box, IR
Src Input 1: Composit Video, L/R Audio
Prog Src 2: Cable without Box
Src Input 2: Coax RF in
Cable Prov 1: Comcast
Cable Lineup 1: Digital
Cable Prov 2: Comcast
Cable Lineup 2: Primary

Looking at my channel list, 1 is set to box which is for my video on demand stuff. 2 - 99 are set to cbl. 100 and up are set to box. So I don't have duplicate channels selected.

I know stated before I can easily test this by trying SAP, but I just want to make sure I am set to stereo and recording shows in stereo.

I even have a headphone jack on the front of my A/V Rec and plugged in a set of Sony stereo headphones. I hear sound from both sides.

Right now I am thinking my Tivo is not having the same stereo/mono issues you all are having. I even did a reboot and no change. Oh and this is the 80hr S2DT unit.

Any help or suggestions appreciated.

Thanks

Edit: When I set my A/V to any sound field that states Pro Logic, the sound is considerably softer. Those fields that state Pro Logic are: Normal Sur. and Cinema A, B & C. All the other: 2ch stereo, game, hall, live, jazz, auto don't state Pro Logic and are louder.

[lessd]

I still can't seem to determine if mine is in stereo or not. I described my setup in post #132. It seems all of my sound settings from my A/V come from the center speaker. I unplugged the center spkr and can hear sound from both the left and right although it is much softer. The center was much louder. I even set the Tivo to mono and no change.

A quick review:
My provider is Comcast and I am using the Motorola digital cable box. I have a RF splitter off the wall, one end to the Tivo and the other to my cable box. The cable box is connected to my Tivo using RCA cables. My Tivo is connected to my A/V Rec using RCA cables. My A/V Rec is connected to my TV using RCA cables. In my TV, I can't get the audio setting to change from Stereo, so I just turned the TV sound all the way down.

My Tivo system info:
Ver: 7.3-oth-01-2-649
Prog Src 1: Cable box, IR
Src Input 1: Composit Video, L/R Audio
Prog Src 2: Cable without Box
Src Input 2: Coax RF in
Cable Prov 1: Comcast
Cable Lineup 1: Digital
Cable Prov 2: Comcast
Cable Lineup 2: Primary

Looking at my channel list, 1 is set to box which is for my video on demand stuff. 2 - 99 are set to cbl. 100 and up are set to box. So I don't have duplicate channels selected.

I know stated before I can easily test this by trying SAP, but I just want to make sure I am set to stereo and recording shows in stereo.

I even have a headphone jack on the front of my A/V Rec and plugged in a set of Sony stereo headphones. I hear sound from both sides.

Right now I am thinking my Tivo is not having the same stereo/mono issues you all are having. I even did a reboot and no change. Oh and this is the 80hr S2DT unit.

Any help or suggestions appreciated.

Thanks

Edit: When I set my A/V to any sound field that states Pro Logic, the sound is considerably softer. Those fields that state Pro Logic are: Normal Sur. and Cinema A, B & C. All the other: 2ch stereo, game, hall, live, jazz, auto don't state Pro Logic and are louder.

Not having Stereo does not mean that sound from one side is missing it means that the sound from both the left and right speakers are the same. Record Jay Leno as when the audience makes noise you can hear the difference from left to right. With Stereo you hear a more realistic sound but it is hard to tell on many programs what you are getting if you don't have at least a 6' separation between your left and right speakers. A stereo test channel would be nice.

[disneyman]

Just an FYI. I spoke with some higher level TiVo reps over the weekend to try to get some issues resolved with channel line-up problems and mentioned to them that I was also having the Stereo issue with my Dual Tuner TiVo. I was informed that there were zero known issues with the dula tuners and stereo. The techs I spoke to said that every issue that had been brought to their attention was due to bad cables or incorrect set-up. All Dual Tuners function in 100% stereo sound. So, for those of you who think the issue is being addressed by TiVo, I got a certainly different impression.

For more details about how TiVO handled my call, look under my post about Dual Tuner Channel line-up problems.



Disneyman

[starneml]

this is just peachy

[Gospel]

I still can't seem to determine if mine is in stereo or not. I described my setup in post #132. It seems all of my sound settings from my A/V come from the center speaker. I unplugged the center spkr and can hear sound from both the left and right although it is much softer. The center was much louder. I even set the Tivo to mono and no change.
From your description, it sounds like mono to me since most of th sound is coming out of the center speaker. With your headphones, does the audio soun like it is in the center of your head?

A quick review:
My provider is Comcast and I am using the Motorola digital cable box. I have a RF splitter off the wall, one end to the Tivo and the other to my cable box. The cable box is connected to my Tivo using RCA cables. My Tivo is connected to my A/V Rec using RCA cables. My A/V Rec is connected to my TV using RCA cables. In my TV, I can't get the audio setting to change from Stereo, so I just turned the TV sound all the way down.

My Tivo system info:
Ver: 7.3-oth-01-2-649
Prog Src 1: Cable box, IR
Src Input 1: Composit Video, L/R Audio
Prog Src 2: Cable without Box
Src Input 2: Coax RF in
Cable Prov 1: Comcast
Cable Lineup 1: Digital
Cable Prov 2: Comcast
Cable Lineup 2: Primary
So, one tuner uses the RF coax cable from the splitter and the other uses A/V cables from the cable box? If so, shows on the RF tuner (tuner 2?) should sound like mono (same left & right and no SAP). The digital one (tuner 1?) should come though in full stereo. If you are now getting audio for channels 100+ channels, compair the difference in sound.

Enjoy life!
Steven

[mchips]

Just an FYI. I spoke with some higher level TiVo reps over the weekend to try to get some issues resolved with channel line-up problems and mentioned to them that I was also having the Stereo issue with my Dual Tuner TiVo. I was informed that there were zero known issues with the dula tuners and stereo. The techs I spoke to said that every issue that had been brought to their attention was due to bad cables or incorrect set-up. All Dual Tuners function in 100% stereo sound. So, for those of you who think the issue is being addressed by TiVo, I got a certainly different impression.

For more details about how TiVO handled my call, look under my post about Dual Tuner Channel line-up problems.



Disneyman Before you start a panic, try emailing TiVoOpsMgr or TiVoPony... sounds like you're getting misinformation from the rep, which is typical of any CSR environment, and has been known to happen from TiVo's CSR environment as well... just read many of the posts throughout this forum...

We've already heard from the horse's mouth, just read a few posts up... TiVoPony has already said the issue is being addressed, and I trust him over any CSR rep...

[mchips]

I just noticed this today.

It looks like they already have an update available to fix several of the 7.3 issues.

People can sign up for the 7.3.1 update via:
http://www.tivo.com/priority
I've signed all of mine up.

Hopefully it'll include a fix for the DT stereo/mono issue. I like to think positive.

[Gospel]

Cool, I'll bite. I'll report back when the update comes.

BTW, this thread has gone to 7 pages. Now, I can simply click on [Last post] :)

Enjoy life,
Steven

[jfh3]

Just an FYI. I spoke with some higher level TiVo reps over the weekend to try to get some issues resolved with channel line-up problems and mentioned to them that I was also having the Stereo issue with my Dual Tuner TiVo. I was informed that there were zero known issues with the dula tuners and stereo.

Well, this is just flat out wrong. I opened a ticket on this a while back and the rep acknowledged this was a known problem.

Why don't you send a PM to TivoOpsMgr and provide him some details on your call? Sounds like some rep needs some educating. I find it hard to believe that Tivo didn't have an internal bulletin on the DT stereo issue, given that knowledge of that problem could potentially save Tivo some unnecessary hardware returns (though we still don't know if the problem is hardware or software releated).

[mchips]

I find it hard to believe that Tivo didn't have an internal bulletin on the DT stereo issue... They probably did, but customer service is only as strong as the individual... there are probably many memos that go out, with some people diligent enough to stay on top of them all, with others who aren't reading and committing them to memory like they should, to all variations in between...

No customer service dept. is perfect, and has to rely on this people-factor...

I have worked for companies where some people are drilled with things they should know until they're blue in the face, and still end up giving out misinformation... and it's not always their fault; when there's a lot of information being disseminated, it can be difficult to remember them all... some people just have a better memory than others, and/or a better knack for searching for and finding the right information when needed...

Plus, CSR's typically aren't paid that much, so companies can only get what they can get... sometimes they get lucky and are able to hire some really sharp individuals, and other times, not so much.

And then there's the other side of the coin, with the customer at times misunderstanding what the CSR may have said... and then that customer begins spreading that misinformation around as fact... not that that's necessarily what happened in this case...

[disneyman]

I spoke to 3 different TiVO reps over the weekend. Each one of them introduced themselves as a Supervisor. I had asked to go to a higher level of support person because the regular CSR personnel could not tell me anyting that would work. With each one I went over my difficulties in detail before we began troubleshooting. Each one said there were no issues with the Stereo sound on my unit. In the end, it ended up that none of my issues were resolved and now I have no where to turn. TiVO told me that my problems were due to the fact that I backed up my original drive to a new, larger 250 gig drive. "This drive is what is causing your software bugs", I was told. I refused to accept that. I have sent Pm's to TivoPony and TiVoOpsMgr, with no repsonses in 24 hours. I'll see what happens.


Disneyman

[mchips]

That's the risk we take for upgrading our drives...

While TiVo allows it, which I'm really grateful for, they don't support it, because of the problems it can introduce, which I can understand (just from reading the many posts here of botched upgrades)...

Also, keep in mind that they probably get thousands of emails, so they may not be able to respond immediately...

As far as your other issues that you posted about in that thread you created, I was planning on offering you some tips on how to accomplish at least one of the things that you mentioned, if someone hasn't already... I just haven't had the time to put it together; I was going to try and put some screenshots together...

Though we should probably know here very shortly if there's a fix for the stereo/mono issue in the 7.3.1 update... I'm going to remain optimistic about it, so that I don't get myself unnecessarily stressed out...

[disneyman]

Anything you can offer in way of suggestions would be greatly appreciated. The main thing I need fixed is the darn info button showing me which tuner it is on correctly. I still have my original drive, untouched. Perhaps if I go through the set-up with that one and the problem still exists I can get some help. If you can offer some assistance, I would be much appreciative.



Disneyman

[Abner]

TiVo's customer service is terrible. I know that in mchips eyes Tivo can do no wrong. He must work for them or get his TiVos for free in return for his commitment to continually praise and defend them. His nose must be really brown :)

About three weeks ago I return two S2DTs along with TiVo Wireless G adapters because of this issue and poor customer support. Early this week, Monday, I received my credit card statement and they only credited me for the two wireless adapters. The two TiVos, one a prepay of three years for $499 and another a prepay of one year for $254, they forgot to credit. They told me that a supervisor would call me the next day to let me know that they had credited my account, well, I still waiting for that call.

While I had them on the phone I asked if the Stereo problem for which I returned the units had been solved and they said that my record showed that I returned them because I didn't know how to connect them to my stereo. I told them that I returned them due to the No Stereo problem, to which they quickly told me that there were no known Stereo Problems. I brought up to their attention that someone had call me about the day after I shipped the units back and acknowledged that there was indeed and problem and they they were looking into it. After they pulled up one of several TiVo case numbers they has assigned to me, did they agree that I had received the call and that they were still looking into it.

Tivo's customer service it terrible, and a lot worse than just about any other Customer Service department that I have dealt with. I was considering waiting for this problem to get fixed and order two new TiVos, but the more I deal with them the more I think that I will be better off going back to the Adelphia Dual Tuner/HD Motorola cable box that I had before I ordered and received the TiVos.

Most cable companies these days offer DVRs, so if TiVo doesn't get their act together, they will lose a lot of customers to cable DVR boxes. Cable company DVRs are a very good alternative to TiVo. TiVo does have some nice additional features, but they are not worth the additional aggravation. I will most likely just go back to the cable DT/HD DVR and also continue using my Panasonic DVR.

[yunlin12]

Cable company DVRs are a very good alternative to TiVo. TiVo does have some nice additional features, but they are not worth the additional aggravation. I will most likely just go back to the cable DT/HD DVR and also continue using my Panasonic DVR.


Talking about aggrevation, that's my Comcast DCT3412 DVR's middle name!

[mchips]

TiVo's customer service is terrible. I know that in mchips eyes Tivo can do no wrong. He must work for them or get his TiVos for free in return for his commitment to continually praise and defend them. His nose must be really brown :) :down:

Nope, I'm just not as pessimistic, more rational, and more understanding than others...

On the flip side, I could say that you might work for the competition and it's your job to come over and stir things up, especially now that a fix might be getting ready to come out... ;)

Anyone can come up with poor customer service experiences about any company... sometimes it's justified, while other times it's misperception or exacerbated by the customer...

[rainwater]

:down:

Nope, I'm just not as pessimistic, more rational, and more understanding than others...

On the flip side, I could say that you might work for the competition and it's your job to come over and stir things up, especially now that a fix might be getting ready to come out... ;)

Anyone can come up with poor customer service experiences about any company... sometimes it's justified, while other times it's misperception or exacerbated by the customer...

Its great that your are more rational that us, but the fact is, you haven't been affected like many of us. For 2 months TiVo CSR have been having people return their TiVos because they fail to realize that this is a global issue affecting all DT units. Even after one of their own employees noted in this thread they they are invesigating the issue, the CSR still are trying to get people to return their TiVos. I guess when you are out several hundred dollars, you should be rational like mchips and just say how this is not a problem.

[mchips]

Its great that your are more rational that us, but the fact is, you haven't been affected like many of us. For 2 months TiVo CSR have been having people return their TiVos because they fail to realize that this is a global issue affecting all DT units. Even after one of their own employees noted in this thread they they are invesigating the issue, the CSR still are trying to get people to return their TiVos. I guess when you are out several hundred dollars, you should be rational like mchips and just say how this is not a problem. I haven't been affected, because I choose how I let it affect me...

People choose their attitude... you may choose a pessimistic, non-productive attitude, but I choose a more optimistic, productive attitude, and as a result, I get more accomplished and experience less stress as a result...

I'm not going to change to a negative attitude... I've evolved beyond that...

When a tree falls in the roadway, I find a way around it, and move on... I don't just sit there and moan about how it never should have fallen in the first place...

[lessd]

Its great that your are more rational that us, but the fact is, you haven't been affected like many of us. For 2 months TiVo CSR have been having people return their TiVos because they fail to realize that this is a global issue affecting all DT units. Even after one of their own employees noted in this thread they they are invesigating the issue, the CSR still are trying to get people to return their TiVos. I guess when you are out several hundred dollars, you should be rational like mchips and just say how this is not a problem.

There may be a legal question why TiVo can't admit to this problem I don't want to spend a lot of time on this but SAP is a legal requirement for this type of product tuner (stereo is also) and by a public admission to this problem they might be forced to recall the all the DT units even if software could eventually fix the problem, but the fix is not ready yet. Once the fix is in the point would then be moot. (I don't know yet if 7.3.1 fixes this but we will find out soon)

[Gospel]

Once the fix is in the point would then be moot. (I don't know yet if 7.3.1 fixes this but we will find out soon)
When I get home, I will see if I have 7.3.1 or can get it.

[rainwater]

I haven't been affected, because I choose how I let it affect me...

People choose their attitude... you may choose a pessimistic, non-productive attitude, but I choose a more optimistic, productive attitude, and as a result, I get more accomplished and experience less stress as a result...

I'm not going to change to a negative attitude... I've evolved beyond that...

When a tree falls in the roadway, I find a way around it, and move on... I don't just sit there and moan about how it never should have fallen in the first place...

I don't think you understand my point. I want TiVo to be a success. Issues like these are not good from an average customers perspective. Personally, I am not returning my unit so I am not out any money. But the problem is for the average consumer who is being given false information from the TiVo CSR requiring them to send back their units. This is not good for keeping customers. You love TiVo and I don't blame you. But not every customer out there has that type of devotion to this company. I want TiVo to be the best and not second rate.

[jfh3]

Most cable companies these days offer DVRs, so if TiVo doesn't get their act together, they will lose a lot of customers to cable DVR boxes.

I can sympathize with your CSR probems, but if you think your experience is bad, try calling Comcast to report a problem with a 6412 DVR. You haven't experienced frustration until you've been down that road ...

[lessd]

I can sympathize with your CSR probems, but if you think your experience is bad, try calling Comcast to report a problem with a 6412 DVR. You haven't experienced frustration until you've been down that road ...

I have been down that road....they just replace the box even if that does not fix the problem.

[Gospel]

When I get home, I will see if I have 7.3.1 or can get it.
Not yet. :(

[Abner]

I have been down that road....they just replace the box even if that does not fix the problem.

Yes, I wasn't very happy with the Adelphia/Motorola DT/HD that I had before I got TiVos. If I powered it up while it was recording, it would come up in mute mode. I had to wait for a commercial, stop recording, power off and back on to get out of mute. I swapped it, the the new one did the same thing. Actually the second one was a little bit better than the first one, on the first one I sometimes had to unplug it, before I could ever get sound back.

I've been getting along fine with only my Panasonic DVR, I think I may just be better off getting another one. It works pretty good. Only single tuner and the only thing that I don't like about it, is that you cannot delete programs while it's recording. You can watch previously recorded programs, you just can't delete it while it's records. Other than that it works great. On any given thing, one will always find something that it doesn't like.

[Dan203]

According to TiVoPony this issue has been fixed in 7.3.1....

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4176929&&#post4176929

Dan

[starneml]

i am sure a lot of people will let everyone know for sure once we see it.

thanks Dan.

[yunlin12]

Yes, I wasn't very happy with the Adelphia/Motorola DT/HD that I had before I got TiVos. If I powered it up while it was recording, it would come up in mute mode. I had to wait for a commercial, stop recording, power off and back on to get out of mute. I swapped it, the the new one did the same thing. Actually the second one was a little bit better than the first one, on the first one I sometimes had to unplug it, before I could ever get sound back.


Sir, please back off from the Motorola DVR, do NOT attempt to power it off, and move away from it SLOWLY, any human interaction may cause it to behave in an unpredictable manner.

[mchips]

i am sure a lot of people will let everyone know for sure once we see it.

thanks Dan. Yes, thanks Dan (and Pony) (and TiVo)...

I've now got 7.3.1 and can confirm that this has indeed been fixed... :up:

[starneml]

Confirmed -- 7.3.1 came up Stereo Right away. Test SAP and SAP worked as expected.
ie. after changing to SAP, you need to change channels to get the SAP signal enabled and then the same to get back to Main/Stereo.

Thanks TiVo!!!!!

[Gospel]

Yeayyyyyy!!!!!! It is fixed. I now get stereo without having coerce (jiggle) the settings. You two beat me to it! The stereo sound seems to even sound better but that might just be my imagination.

Thanks TiVo!
Steven

[starneml]

i think we are just ecstatic that it wasnt a hardware problem that couldnt be fixed in software...

yes, it is nice.

now to figure out what else 7.3.1 fixed.

[Abner]

Glad to hear that the problem is fixed! I will give TiVo another try. I just ordered a new S2DT 180 and after test driving it, I will most likely get my second one again. I guess this was a blessing in disguise, since I sent back S2DT 80 hour TiVos and will now get the new S2DT 180. :D

[whitesoxfan06]

Forced connection to the service this morning and received the 3.1 update. Yes the stereo issue is fixed! Thanks everyone for the info and help with the workaround while we wated for this update!

[Abner]

I received my new S2DT 180 on 7/12/06 and had to signup to the priority list for the 7.3.1 update, but now I'm set. I now have Stereo!

No Dolby Pro Logic, but I can live just just Stereo.

I place an order for my second S2DT replacement, another S2DT 180 . Tivo has new pricing on a three year prepay. It's only $369, "Special Limited Time Offer", which comes out to $10.25 a month. I had prepaid $469 for my current S2DT 180, but I was able to get them to refund the $100 difference. They will credit my account once the 30 day trial is over, or about 8/12/06.

I'm definetely a Happy Camper. :D

[Budget_HT]

Abner,

How did you determine that you do not have Dolby Pro Logic?

[Dan203]

I received my new S2DT 180 on 7/12/06 and had to signup to the priority list for the 7.3.1 update, but now I'm set. I now have Stereo!

This just goes to show the power of this forum. 2 months ago this was an unknown issue and now it's fixed because of reports here on the forum.

Dan