Why should a time slot matter?

[Guindalf]

If a TV show is good, then why should its time slot matter? I'm not talking about putting a new show against a real blockbuster, but surely if a show's worth watching, watercooler reviews will get an audience for it?

I know that Commander in Chief was given the kiss of death by being put against bigger, more powerful shows, but if it was really that good, then people would fight for it, wouldn't they?

I've seen how a show could get a boost by being shown just after a biggie (like the 8:30 slot after Friends when it was on) and how a show can be moved to Friday nights and be called it's final resting place.

What I hate is when the networks pull a show that takes more than five minutes to orientate its audience to the characters after a couple of episodes. Some are appallingly bad and deserve to be cut, but others may benefit from a time change.

I guess I'm answering my own question here, but I'll post anyway for discussion purposes.

[Amnesia]

Sure, people will be interested, but if it's against a show (or two) that they like more, they won't give it a chance.

I have 3 tuners and I still hit conflicts. I really enjoy Deal or No Deal, but on Wednesdays it is against Alias, Bones and The Amazing Race and simply comes in 4th.

Good show, but I don't watch (at least on that night).

Time slot does matter, even for those of us with multiple tuners...

[AstroDad]

if nobody watched it in the first place, there is no one to fight for it or see that it is any good.

[JimSpence]

The problem I see is that the networks don't leave a show in a timeslot long enough for people to respond. If it doesn't get a large enough share the first week it gets moved and viewers then lose track of it. Then it's off to cancelled land.

[Jesda]

Its a business.

[Steveknj]

It's simply that if you like 2 shows, then you have to make the choice on which one to watch. So if I watched show 1 in timeslot A, but they move it to timeslot B against show 2 which I like better, I won't watch show 1.

So, while a show might be popular in it's original timeslot, sometimes by moving it against stronger competition, you signal the deathnell for that show (or the one it's going up against). The classic example of a timeslot move against a strong show that worke was Survivor moving to Thursday against Friends. It eroded Friends a bit, but both shows still thrived while the 3rd show simply had no chance. But in most cases, I never felt it was a good idea to do so.

It will be interesting to see how Greys Anatomy does against CSI. Is it simply a popular show because of it's DH lead in and will get killed by CSI or is CSI ripe for the taking because of all the imatators killing off the golden goose. For the record, I don't watch either (I used to watch GA, but lost interest when it became nothing more than a soap).

I think essentially by scheduling a show that was not HUGELY strong to begin with against AI, it was just an excuse to kill it off. CIC was an example of a show that COULD have been great, but for various reasons, some related to production and others related to ABC, it just failed.

[mrpantstm]

With Tivo (and dual tuners), time slots are less of any issue these days although I'd say right now, the majority of TV viewers still watch live television.

Additionally, time does matter. Say Show X came on at 10pm. My fiance goes to bed at 10pm since she has to get up early for work. While my fiance might love this show without the aid of Tivo she wouldn't see it.

Timeslots matter until the television producers can get their acts together providing easy and most importantly time independent access programming. I mean On Demand, iTunes, the whole bit. When I can watch a show no matter what day of the week or time, will be the time when schedules don't matter.

[Steveknj]

With Tivo (and dual tuners), time slots are less of any issue these days although I'd say right now, the majority of TV viewers still watch live television.

Additionally, time does matter. Say Show X came on at 10pm. My fiance goes to bed at 10pm since she has to get up early for work. While my fiance might love this show without the aid of Tivo she wouldn't see it.

Timeslots matter until the television producers can get their acts together providing easy and most importantly time independent access programming. I mean On Demand, iTunes, the whole bit. When I can watch a show no matter what day of the week or time, will be the time when schedules don't matter.

To your second point, I often wondered about how those 10PM shows manage to get great rating sometimes. You would think, as in your example that 10PM is a common time for either:

People to start going to bed
or
Watch the early 10PM news

So wouldn't that start to diminish ratings for those shows? Yet ER was the number one show for a season or two and consitantly in the top 5 in its heyday

For your third point, we are finally getting to the beginning of independence access programming with the webstreams on NBC and ABC. I think that will become more common place and you will see future versions of DVRS disable commercial skip, on demand for free with commercials and downloads to itunes/mp3 with commercials. I wouldn't be surprised if DVDs start to be distributed with commercials for little or no cost at some point, so for instance, you can buy a full season of Scrubs for $40 at Best Buy, no commercials, but for $10, you can get the full season WITH commercials (or maybe even freely distributed through magazines, supermarkets, etc.)

Who does this hurt? Well obviously this could hurt the local affiliates. The problem is, this model of broadcasting is really outdated. It stems back to the 1920s!!! So, I think what could happen is the way affiliates work with networks could change drastically, and that the networks may start selling individual shows to a local station as opposed to a slate of shows like they do now. It could be very interesting times in the broadcasting/marketing industry.

[Amnesia]

It will be interesting to see how Greys Anatomy does against CSI. Is it simply a popular show because of it's DH lead in (...)Well, seeing as how GA has been improving upon its DH lead in, I would say that it's more than just DH...

[mrpantstm]

Who does this hurt? Well obviously this could hurt the local affiliates. The problem is, this model of broadcasting is really outdated. It stems back to the 1920s!!! So, I think what could happen is the way affiliates work with networks could change drastically, and that the networks may start selling individual shows to a local station as opposed to a slate of shows like they do now. It could be very interesting times in the broadcasting/marketing industry.

Definitly, television affiliates are in an akward point here where they have to figure out just what their role is, if there is a role for them at all. Of anyone, I see them as the biggest roadblock to on demand programming.

[That Don Guy]

I often wondered about how those 10PM shows manage to get great rating sometimes. You would think, as in your example that 10PM is a common time for either:

People to start going to bed
or
Watch the early 10PM news

So wouldn't that start to diminish ratings for those shows? Yet ER was the number one show for a season or two and consitantly in the top 5 in its heyday
It depends on the city. On the west coast, where a lot of people have to be in to work by 6:30 AM for the opening of the New York Stock Exchange, a lot of people do watch the 10:00 news; in San Francisco, the one main 10:00 news program gets much better ratings than the 11:00 ones.

In fact, in San Francisco, a few years ago, the CBS and NBC stations tried moving their prime time lineups back an hour so they could show their late news at 10:00. Besides getting some flak from those networks (the NBC station had a major argument with NBC over when it could start The Tonight Show - NBC wanted 10:35, but the station decided instead to start at 11:00), the stations discovered that there was little interest in their 10:00 news program (good news for the ABC station, which increased its 11:00 news viewership because of it), and eventually went back to the 8-11 schedule.

Either people are interested in a show or they're not. Besides, that's what VCRs (and now TiVo) are for...

-- Don

[Z-Todd]

Yes, time slots do matter, because the stronger shows will crush the weaker ones.

But as to watching PT programs "live", that is an archaic concept for me lately. I have a DVD recorder, dual tuner Direct Tivo, and 4 VCR's. I hate commercials, so I try to avoid "live" TV as much as possible.

In fact, on the rare occasion that I do watch something live, I find myself searching for the FF button out of habit. So when the screen does not move, I'm thinking, "what's wrong?"

As to ABC moving Grey's to compete with CSI, it's a boneheaded move. CSI fans are very loyal. Watch Grey's go back to Sunday once the ratings tank.

[Dssturbo1]

easy answer, location location location. beats out quality many times

[vertigo235]

I just dont' understand why you take a successfull show that is likely earning you good money where is, then move it to a slot that kills it, and cancel the show.

I think that's stupid.

[vertigo235]

As to ABC moving Grey's to compete with CSI, it's a boneheaded move. CSI fans are very loyal. Watch Grey's go back to Sunday once the ratings tank.

I agree, you have to know that CSI Fans watch Grey's Anatomy, and expecting fans who have been watching a show for all these years to drop a fav show to watch a show that's only 2 years old is somewhat stupid.

It won't be a problem for me though, thanks to multiple tuners.

That is of course until they cancel Grey's Anatomy :(

[DevdogAZ]

I just dont' understand why you take a successfull show that is likely earning you good money where is, then move it to a slot that kills it, and cancel the show.

I think that's stupid.
But you have to look at it from the business perspective. ABC has been a non-factor on the most important night of TV for over a decade. They can continue to concede defeat by putting garbage up against the CBS and NBC shows on Thursday, and continue to lose money by not having good ratings on that night, or they can take one of their hottest shows, which has continued to increase in viewers since it premiered, and try and get a toehold on that all-important night. It's unlikely that Grey's will flounder in this spot. It may lose a few viewers, but it will still do phenomenally better than anything ABC has put in that slot in a decade, and it will hurt CSI's ratings. CSI isn't a serialized show where you have to see one episode to understand the next one, so a strong, serialized show against it could definitely do some damage.

Mostly I'm pissed because I'm really looking forward to Studio 60 and this means that it's going to have a very hard time finding an audience when it's up against two of the most popular shows on TV. Not to mention that we only have two tuners and my wife loves GA. I may stop watching CSI.

[Amnesia]

Even if Grey's Anatomy gets fewer viewers next season due to its time slot competition, it still could end up making more money for ABC because Thursday night shows make more ad money per viewer (primarily because of studios promoting movies that open the following day) than do Sunday night shows.

[murgatroyd]

It will be interesting to see how Greys Anatomy does against CSI.

Ah, if it were only that simple. Some of us will have a four-way conflict in that timeslot next year.

Jan

[Amnesia]

Some of us will have a four-way conflict in that timeslot next year.How could you possibly know that?

Only NBC and ABC have announced their schedules. Even assuming that CBS keeps CSI in the same slot (which, I admit, is a pretty safe bet), that would only be a 3-way conflict...

[DevdogAZ]

How could you possibly know that?

Only NBC and ABC have announced their schedules. Even assuming that CBS keeps CSI in the same slot (which, I admit, is a pretty safe bet), that would only be a 3-way conflict...
I suppose it's possible that The O.C. could change timeslots. I think Jan is counting on that timesot staying the same.

[rondotcom]

To your second point, I often wondered about how those 10PM shows manage to get great rating sometimes. You would think, as in your example that 10PM is a common time for either:

People to start going to bed
or
Watch the early 10PM news

So wouldn't that start to diminish ratings for those shows? Yet ER was the number one show for a season or two and consitantly in the top 5 in its heyday

For your third point, we are finally getting to the beginning of independence access programming with the webstreams on NBC and ABC. I think that will become more common place and you will see future versions of DVRS disable commercial skip, on demand for free with commercials and downloads to itunes/mp3 with commercials. I wouldn't be surprised if DVDs start to be distributed with commercials for little or no cost at some point, so for instance, you can buy a full season of Scrubs for $40 at Best Buy, no commercials, but for $10, you can get the full season WITH commercials (or maybe even freely distributed through magazines, supermarkets, etc.)

Who does this hurt? Well obviously this could hurt the local affiliates. The problem is, this model of broadcasting is really outdated. It stems back to the 1920s!!! So, I think what could happen is the way affiliates work with networks could change drastically, and that the networks may start selling individual shows to a local station as opposed to a slate of shows like they do now. It could be very interesting times in the broadcasting/marketing industry.
DOn't forget 10pm eastern is only 9pm central

[PeternJim]

It's a real annoyance, and yes, it's a business. Most of the time, I don't get the choices they make. Every once in a while, I see them do something really smart, but it's rare.

I remember in the olden days that X-Files was up against something popular like either Touched By and Angel or 7th Heaven, where it seemed to me that there wasn't going to be a huge demographic overlap, and that seemed really smart to me. I understand that it would be really hard to work out, and for some business reason, it must be better to put popular shows against each other and leave other nights just limping with crap, but I wish it happened more often.

I keep missing the first 5 minutes of Smallville because I TiVo Will and Grace and Earl. (yeah, yeah, buy another TiVo, yadda yada, but not for a single conflict.)

[Stormspace]

I think Jesda said it best. It's a business. Shows cost money to produce and in order for the networks to make up the money they had to pay the production company they have to put it in a time slot where advertising will allow them to make up the money. Some shows are inexpensive, so they can be put into time slots were advertising is cheap, others are way expensive and in order for the network to make money back the show has to be in a prime time slot and drawing eyeballs to up the ad dollars. As for putting it up against more succesful shows I imagine that many things have to be considered such as market demographic. A show that appealed to women might do well against a motor sports event of show, or a social drama do well against a medical investigation type show. Bottom line the networks have all this data and know ahead of time what could do well and if the show is too expensive to produce the ad dollars won't support it. They would rather put in garbage that costs them nothing and makes marginal ad money rather than put in a quality expensive show that loses them money.

[DevdogAZ]

I keep missing the first 5 minutes of Smallville because I TiVo Will and Grace and Earl. (yeah, yeah, buy another TiVo, yadda yada, but not for a single conflict.)
How does that cause you to miss the first 5 minutes of Smallville? Will and Grace is on at the same time as Smallville and Earl is on after it. With only one TiVo, Will & Grace and Smallville can't be recorded at the same time and Earl doesn't conflict with either of them. :confused:

[hefe]

Time slots don't matter...to me.

Still matters to enough people to make a difference, though.

[Steveknj]

Yes, time slots do matter, because the stronger shows will crush the weaker ones.

But as to watching PT programs "live", that is an archaic concept for me lately. I have a DVD recorder, dual tuner Direct Tivo, and 4 VCR's. I hate commercials, so I try to avoid "live" TV as much as possible.

In fact, on the rare occasion that I do watch something live, I find myself searching for the FF button out of habit. So when the screen does not move, I'm thinking, "what's wrong?"

As to ABC moving Grey's to compete with CSI, it's a boneheaded move. CSI fans are very loyal. Watch Grey's go back to Sunday once the ratings tank.

hahahaha, do that too on live shows, and I get so disappointed that I can't FF that it feels frustrating!! But still, only a small portion of viewers time shift, but it's definitely growning to the point where time slots WON'T matter as much. But right now, they still do.

[Steveknj]

I agree, you have to know that CSI Fans watch Grey's Anatomy, and expecting fans who have been watching a show for all these years to drop a fav show to watch a show that's only 2 years old is somewhat stupid.

It won't be a problem for me though, thanks to multiple tuners.

That is of course until they cancel Grey's Anatomy :(

I think in this case, a lot of it is that bugaboo, demographics. I would imagine that the core viewers for these two shows have different demos. Males for CSI and Female for GA. So I am guessing the networks will gear their advertising accordingly so that even if ratings dip on both shows, their demos will remain strong, and so will advertising revenue.

[ebonovic]

As long as they continue the "accient" way of determining how many people are watching a show (Nielsen)

TimeSlots are the "Holy Grail"

They flat out have not started to adjust to the DVR era.

[MassD]

It will be interesting to see how Greys Anatomy does against CSI.

Both are going to suffer, but GA is going to get beat up. CSI is the more popular, more established show. GA had it easy. At 10pm on Sunday, what competition did it have? Not much... Filler shows mostly. Now it's going into the hornet's nest. It has to contend with CSI, and it also has to contend with what NBC offers (right now it's Earl).

Dumb, stupid, foolish move if you ask me. Grey's had it all on Sunday night... ratings, lead in, you name it. Now it is going up against the #1 show in television on a highly competitive night?

Dumb... stupid... foolish....

[aindik]

Timeslot matters because, regardless of what is on, certain time periods, and certain days, have more people watching TV than others. That's why Thursday night is so important - more people watching TV than other nights.

And, as others have said, conflicts are deal-killers for the vast majority of the population, who don't time-shift at all (and who happen to be the people who actually watch commercials).

That said, I agree with the post that said the demographics on CSI and the demographics on Gray's Anatomy are probably pretty different.

[Inundated]

In fact, in San Francisco, a few years ago, the CBS and NBC stations tried moving their prime time lineups back an hour so they could show their late news at 10:00.

Oddly enough, the CBS affiliate in Sacramento still has the "early prime" lineup, and that's even after it was bought by the network!

CBS took a look at it when they took over the station (KOVR 13) last year, and decided that they didn't want to move their 10 PM news show into competition with the established 11 PM shows. As it turns out, KOVR's 10 PM news is more popular than the earlier-established 10 PM show on FOX 40, and they make a lot of money off it.

[DevdogAZ]

Timeslot matters because, regardless of what is on, certain time periods, and certain days, have more people watching TV than others. That's why Thursday night is so important - more people watching TV than other nights.

And, as others have said, conflicts are deal-killers for the vast majority of the population, who don't time-shift at all (and who happen to be the people who actually watch commercials).

That said, I agree with the post that said the demographics on CSI and the demographics on Gray's Anatomy are probably pretty different.
Yes, Thursday is a high-viewership night, but Sunday is actually the highest. The reason Thursday is such a big deal is because it's the night that draws the highest ad rates because of the demographics and the timing (right before the weekend spending).

Both are going to suffer, but GA is going to get beat up. CSI is the more popular, more established show. GA had it easy. At 10pm on Sunday, what competition did it have? Not much... Filler shows mostly. Now it's going into the hornet's nest. It has to contend with CSI, and it also has to contend with what NBC offers (right now it's Earl).

Dumb, stupid, foolish move if you ask me. Grey's had it all on Sunday night... ratings, lead in, you name it. Now it is going up against the #1 show in television on a highly competitive night?

Dumb... stupid... foolish....
It's actually brilliant on ABC's part. They have long needed a strong entry into that Thursday slot. They're leaving tons of money on the table by not competing on that night. However, they've never had a show that could really compete. Now that Grey's is so successful and has developed it's own following, it's the perfect show and the perfect time to give ABC a foothold into the Thursday night ratings war. DH or LOST may have been contenders to do it last season, but they still needed DH to shore up the Sunday night slot, and the viewership of LOST is too similar to the viewership of CSI to put them head to head. Grey's, on the other hand, draws a much more feminine audience and will probably do very well against CSI. Even if it drops a couple million viewers by moving, it's still going to make more money and give ABC a much better chance at competing on Thursday, which is the most important night.