How is the upconvert?

[ayrton911]

I'm on the edge of submitting my order for the HD DirecTV TiVo today.

Do you guys find watching standard-def television is better on your HD DireccTiVo than a regular DirecTV box, since it up-converts to a higher resolution?

[A J Ricaud]

A lot depends on the TV. Some posters say SD looks worse/some better on the HD Tivo.

[btwyx]

It can't be any worse, you can always use the S-Video output.

I think SD is a bit better with the HD TiVo mainly because of the component output. My TV does S-Video really badly.

[vertigo235]

Yeah, you don't have to upconvert, you can select 480i as output if you like, not just on svideo but on all outputs.

[codespy]

It was a night and day difference for me on my 10 year old Mits VS-5043. The compression was so bad on the SD receivers for football games we had to watch a 13" TV. That's like committing suicide. HD480i w/s-video was all it needed.

[alexwt]

I find the 720p upconvert on my HD TiVo is far superior to watching either 480i or my old Sony SAT60. I have a Samsung DLP so the only time I use the 480i output is on letterboxed SD material (the Samsung can zoom in on SD material only).

[ayrton911]

I find the 720p upconvert on my HD TiVo is far superior to watching either 480i or my old Sony SAT60. I have a Samsung DLP so the only time I use the 480i output is on letterboxed SD material (the Samsung can zoom in on SD material only).

So the HD TiVo box has no zoom functions? My box should arrive Wed!

[A J Ricaud]

So the HD TiVo box has no zoom functions? My box should arrive Wed!

No. Zoom, stretch, etc. functions are from the TV, if supported.

[ayrton911]

No. Zoom, stretch, etc. functions are from the TV, if supported.

Ah ok. My Echostar dual tuner PVR has some zoom functions on it. It is sometimes nice to have selections on the receiver and TV.

[qposner]

Ayrton,

I assume you will be Tivo'ing old F1 Decades on Speed. Are you a fan of Senna with Williams, McLaren, Lotus, or Toleman? Just wondering!

[ayrton911]

Ayrton,

I assume you will be Tivo'ing old F1 Decades on Speed. Are you a fan of Senna with Williams, McLaren, Lotus, or Toleman? Just wondering!

F1 decades no longer air. I actually have every race on tape since 1990 though, some from the 80s, every qualifying since 98, and some practices from each GP since 2001. I have so many tapes. Trying to convert to DVD and now I'm actually doing xvid to save even more space.

I'm a fan of Senna with Lotus and McLaren. Of course, the Monaco 84 drive in the Toleman was great. Now I'm a fan of Kimi! Always a fan of McLaren though.

I met Alonso and Fisichella in an airport a couple years ago. Fisichella's wife was really mad at me. The look she gave me will last forever. ha-ha.

Back to the TiVo, I watch F1 live though. It is the one thing I still prefer life, rather than TiVod.

Also of note to this area, I read F1 may launch HD equipment for the USA & Canadian GPs, of course, there will probably be no one on the planet actually showing it in HD, but it will be shot that way. I also suspect the world feed might be in letterbox, but we'll have to wait and see.

[qposner]

I have to admit, I have tired of F1. I am a HUGE road race fan (race Formula Vee with SCCA myself) but F1 has just become a parade with Bernie's ego. Give me a good Pro Mazda race, A1GP, SCCA Runoffs, or the British Touring Car Championship (best racing on TV).

If F1 can get back to the way it was in the 80's, I would be back watching. I remember watching tapes of races in the early 80's with Piquet, Lauda, Prost, etc. Those were some grea t races with actual passing!

[ayrton911]

I have to admit, I have tired of F1. I am a HUGE road race fan (race Formula Vee with SCCA myself) but F1 has just become a parade with Bernie's ego. Give me a good Pro Mazda race, A1GP, SCCA Runoffs, or the British Touring Car Championship (best racing on TV).

If F1 can get back to the way it was in the 80's, I would be back watching. I remember watching tapes of races in the early 80's with Piquet, Lauda, Prost, etc. Those were some grea t races with actual passing!

I can't stand to watch anything except F1.

For me, it is the only racing where they actually race. Start race and first guy who finishes wins. Not usually any safety cars and nonsense to ruin things. Just plain who can win. I like that. I love the strategy too.

[qposner]

They race? Surely you jest? ;-) There really isn't much wheel to wheel racing going on. There is little passing. While I agree safety cars can ruin a race, have you watched a British Touring Car race during the winter? There is an absolute ton of cars running nose to tail and wheel to wheel, with little safety car time. How about DTM?

[DeWitt]

Most HD TV's upconvert. So can the Hr10-250. The best bet is to try both and see which works better for you.

In my setup the SD is much better than an SD receiver was, but I see no difference between my TV's upscaling and the HR10-250's.

And I Tivo every F1 practice, qualy and race... even though the only passing last weekend was in the pits.

Here is a great editorial on F1 passing I just read today on the Speed TV site

http://www.speedtv.com/commentary/23820/

[qposner]

Interesting article, DeWitt. Thanks for posting it!

[ayrton911]

They race? Surely you jest? ;-) There really isn't much wheel to wheel racing going on. There is little passing. While I agree safety cars can ruin a race, have you watched a British Touring Car race during the winter? There is an absolute ton of cars running nose to tail and wheel to wheel, with little safety car time. How about DTM?

Yes, I have watched British Touring car and DTM. Not consistently though, for after a while they start to bore me. When you start to see passing all the time, I don't care about it anymore.

If some people are excited about cars going side by side all the time, good for them. I'm not. That can get boring for me. For me, I enjoy the 80 or so minute battle as the strategies unfold. I sit with the live timing next to me, and I see every sector where a driver is losing time, and then I see that change, and their speed improves, and someone else starts to slow down. I see the battle on screen as so and so pressures so and so, right up until the pit stops. Will he make a mistake? Who is lighter? Who needs to pit first? Who is going to win this Grand Prix? How much ground can Kimi make up? There is no other sport that excites me to any level close to what Formula 1 does. Maybe I can't explain it to you, but I love it.

I certainly respect that some might not find it as exciting as I do, for I can hardly watch any form of racing these days besides F1. CART and IRL I record and fast forward through a lot. I just can't take it usually. F1 I have to see live, every moment including the little bit of practice we see here and qualifying.

It's the season long story at the same time. The personalities, the struggles, being taken around the world to eighteen races in sixteen countries, etc. I think it's great.

[qposner]

Ayrton,

I am with you and undestand what you are saying. As long as we both enjoy racing, thats good enough for me!

BTW---I was at Indy in 2000 for the USGP. It was pretty spectacular. Thank God I wasn't there last year! I was also at the Australian GP in Melbourne in 1997.

Quinn

[ayrton911]

Ayrton,

I am with you and undestand what you are saying. As long as we both enjoy racing, thats good enough for me!

BTW---I was at Indy in 2000 for the USGP. It was pretty spectacular. Thank God I wasn't there last year! I was also at the Australian GP in Melbourne in 1997.

Quinn

I've been to USGP a few times, but I don't think 2000. No, that was first year, I wasn't there. Fantastic about Melbourne. I really want to go to that one!

[GrumpyGuy]

I'm on the edge of submitting my order for the HD DirecTV TiVo today.

Do you guys find watching standard-def television is better on your HD DireccTiVo than a regular DirecTV box, since it up-converts to a higher resolution?

Would you please post a followup after you receive your HR10-250? I'm on the fence as well. What size and type of tv set do you have?


Rico

[ayrton911]

Would you please post a followup after you receive your HR10-250? I'm on the fence as well. What size and type of tv set do you have?


Rico

I thought I did follow up somewhere, but maybe not.

Yes, I have seen quite a significant improvement in picture quality. It is not a world of difference, but pretty significant. Now I'm getting used to it, but at first I really thought it was a big difference. I think up-converting and especially having the better connection instead of s-video helped.

I have a 46-inch Samsung DLP.

[newsposter]

My very specific instance is having a crt rptv and you can see the difference when you take it out of 480i and put it in 1080. My tv of course is analog and 1080 so maybe it likes crt better than some of the newer fixed display? Not sure. this is about my 100th post on the subject, i really need to get some screenshots for you guys to reference. Somehow it smooths the picture when the tivo is on anything but 480i

[Steve O]

Personally, I think the upconvert is pretty lousy. I just replaced a Samsung SIR-TS160 with the HR10-250. What I've noticed is that jaggies and motion artifacts are FAR more prevalent than they were before. Let's put it this way... I just never noticed them with the Samsung. But now, but now they're very noticeable and distracting. I have a Samsung DLP with a native resolution of 720P. I find that's actually the HR10-50 output resolution that non-HD programs look worse on. 480P and 1080i are only marginally better. Dropping back to 480i on the S-Video connection makes it much better (and that's a pretty sad state of affairs if that's the case).

So far, I'm having kind of a love/hate relationship with the thing, and this is one of the big reasons. I want a "set it and forget it" kind of setup, not one where I have to screw around with inputs on the TV and output settings on the HD-TiVo to get a good picture when I change channels from non-HD to HD.

-Steve

[AbMagFab]

I've got a 1080p Sony TV. I leave my HR10 at 1080i, and everything looks amazing. A lot of this is up to the TV too.

If you had a receiver that could do "native" it would be better (as the Samsung mentioned above does). If DirecTV would ever let Tivo upgrade the HR10, we'd get a native mode and all these discussions would go away.

[newsposter]

I want a "set it and forget it" kind of setup,

-Steve

mine is just that thankfully :) I'd go nuts if i had to change resolutions as much as you appear to need to.... other than to burn a dvd i never do

[TyroneShoes]

Personally, I think the upconvert is pretty lousy. I just replaced a Samsung SIR-TS160 with the HR10-250. What I've noticed is that jaggies and motion artifacts are FAR more prevalent than they were before. Let's put it this way... I just never noticed them with the Samsung. But now, but now they're very noticeable and distracting. I have a Samsung DLP with a native resolution of 720P. I find that's actually the HR10-50 output resolution that non-HD programs look worse on. 480P and 1080i are only marginally better. Dropping back to 480i on the S-Video connection makes it much better (and that's a pretty sad state of affairs if that's the case).

So far, I'm having kind of a love/hate relationship with the thing, and this is one of the big reasons. I want a "set it and forget it" kind of setup, not one where I have to screw around with inputs on the TV and output settings on the HD-TiVo to get a good picture when I change channels from non-HD to HD.

-Steve

It is probably a matter of how well particular equipment works together. Like AbMag, my Sony seems to work exceptionally well with the HR10. About my only complaint is I see more jaggies than I like at 480i when in pause mode (but only then).

The HR10 is of course primarily designed for reproducing HD on a HD display, and everything else that it (and your display) also can do to accomodate SD may involve a compromise, depending upon the display/STB used. That's one price we pay for living through the conversion to DT.

But you are not necessarily stuck with that situation. One solution is to get a A/V receiver with HDMI upconvert, such as the JVC RXD702B, RXD401S, or RXD402B, the latter of which can be had for as little as $350, and all of which have the DCDi Faroudja processing feature for deinterlacing 480i. These babies make EVERYTHING look and sound good, and can also convert all analog and digital video inputs to an HDMI output. If you are in the market to replace your A/V receiver, this is a feature that could help you out a lot.

These are also pretty good receivers on their own, with a very efficient Class D design that allows a small chassis and relatively little heat for 7.1 channels. They essentially convert audio to pulse-width modulation, amplify, and then completely low-pass filter out the high-frequency artifacts caused by that process. What remains is just the pure 20-20K audio. This is sometimes referred to (somewhat incorrectly) as "digital" amplification, but the bottom line is it works really well.

BTW, Steve, I loved it when you stapled your sack to your thigh on Howard Stern :)