Sky+ Discussion

[Reeves29]

Had Sky+ installed this morning, great peace of kit from what i can see so far (no recording functions for 24hrs though, teething problem with the system).

Biggest problem is that that I.R codes have changed. My tivo can't change the Sky+ channel so tivo is close to useless at the moment. My old sky remote won't work with the sky+ box either.

Can the i.r database in tivo be hacked?

[sammoj]

This was a known issue before release.

I would like to buy another digibox to replace my itvDigital system and although I don't think I would want to use Sky+ the most sensible choice (as it is only £85 more expensive than a vanilla box) is to buy the Sky+ box, itvDigital is costing me £12 per month anyway so the subs would actually be cheaper. But I would want to use the Tivo with the box - I am not sure it is in Tivo's interests to provide the codes but I would like them to do so like you.


This way I have a choice should Tivo pull the UK plug.

[Automan]

As suspected! different IR codes! The digitalspy was correct!

However, the wonderful Sky magazine say the open keyboard should perform all the functions it did! I assume all but enter any numbers!

Not being able to record for 24hrs sounds worrying. Are Sky hours like Microsoft minutes?

Reeves29, What is the problem? why can't it record? Can it even pause livetv?

I would expect TiVo to take a couple of months to come up with new codes that will work Sky+

Automan.

[Norm]

So can you use the EPG to change the Sky channel (as you can with the ordinary DigiBox) without setting it to record? If you can, presumably you can use this as a kludge to record on the TiVo?

------------------
Regards

Norman

[Reeves29]

I can't use any of the new features, record, pause tv can't shedule any recordings in the future. Comes up with a number to ring when i try to record, engineers said this was happening with everyone today. The Optical output works fine though.

The box is about 50% bigger (won't fit on my shelf). Its faster than old pace box but slightly slower than my old panasonic.

They only way i can use tivo is to set sky+ to the right channel before tivo wants to record or use the personnal planner. No chance of any suggestions.

[Automan]

It does not sound like Sky+ is off to a good start...

I assume if all the extra features don't work it must use a different epg data stream than the old Sky boxes? And I assume this data is not being transmitted turning Sky+ into no more than Sky (maybe slightly less if it no longer works with TiVo).

By the way, Reeves29, did you get a new viewing card in the post? If yes, do you need for the new box?

Automan.

[mark_shelley]

Recording is activated for mine - engineer had to persist for a while with the Sky person but then it became available within 2 minutes.

You can set a dialing prefix so hopefully it will work when I get to Cyprus - i.e. just set the prefix to 0044 - unless of course it dials an 0845 number which won't work from outside of UK - ho hum, will have to wait and see.

BTW - can't rewind live TV - no 30mins cache like TiVo - bummer http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif And when I tested a movie recording it estimated it would need 11% of the disk - pathetic compared to TiVo - pah!

[GarySargent]

Originally posted by Automan:
By the way, Reeves29, did you get a new viewing card in the post? If yes, do you need for the new box?

Positing in uk.media.tv.sky suggests you have to use the old one - not the new one.


------------------
Find out everything TiVo: http://www.tivoportal.co.uk
Have your say and vote for the features you want on your UK TiVo: http://www.tivosuggestions.co.uk
Got a bug? http://www.tivobugs.co.uk

[GarySargent]

Couple of questions:

1. Does Sky+ handle recordings expiring like TiVo - that is have a "Save Until" feature, or do you need to manually delete recordings if you run out of disc space.

2. In the next software upgrade to TiVo we can do funky thinks like tell it to have a season pass for The Weather, but only ever keep one copy of it - that way you always have the latest weather report but don't fill up your hard disc with old ones. Anything advanced like this in Sky+ or is it all quite basic?


------------------
Find out everything TiVo: http://www.tivoportal.co.uk
Have your say and vote for the features you want on your UK TiVo: http://www.tivosuggestions.co.uk
Got a bug? http://www.tivobugs.co.uk

[Reeves29]

You only get a new card if you are having your old box in another room (took the engineers 15 mins to find this out). So they activied my old card.

Looks like what the engineers told me was bull (2 engineers 2 hours to install it, not good). Phoned sky up, after 25mins found out i wasn't getting recording functions because i am billed by invoice, you can only have sky+ if you pay by credit card or direct debit. Setup a d/d told to wait for the recording funtion to activate, nothing after 1 hr.

Didn't have this much trouble with tivo.

[martinwh]

Does the Sky+ box have two separate LNB F-connectors on the back or one "special" connector for the new multi-core LNB down lead.

I'm asking 'cos I presently have two separate LNB down leads and would prefer to use them than have the Sky engineers run a new multi-core cable.

What type of connectors (and how many) are on the back on the new Quad LNB?

Martin

[wattieuk]

Cant say Im surprised about problems with the new Sky box! I have had about 9 digiboxes after buying one for £200 when they first came out. I finally got a Panasonic but that gave up the ghost when the new software went in and then it took them 3 more boxes to give me one that worked! I think the extra Sky charge is disgraceful. They already provide a schedule for Sky digital so I dont see why it sould be more for the same schedule on Sky+. Anyway I ordered my Tivo yesterday from Spectrum (It didnt come today like they said but I did order it late yesterday afternoon so it will hopefully come on Monday). I also have an ITV Digital box which I use for the ITV sports channel and find the box is more reliable than the digibox. I am going to hook the Tivo up to the ITV box because I only really record films off Sky and usually lend them to my dad! SO I will continue to do that with my VHS and use the Tivo to record soaps, sitcoms etc! No need at all for a Sky+ box - and if its bigger it wouldnt fit under my tv in the cabinet anyway!

[mark_shelley]

Originally posted by martinwh:
Does the Sky+ box have two separate LNB F-connectors on the back or one "special" connector for the new multi-core LNB down lead.

The box has two regular f-connector sockets. The LNB has four regular f-connector sockets.

[Reeves29]

finally got recording functions to work after another 15mins on the phone.

No 30 min buffer as mark_shelley said which is a shame if you miss what was said.

If you do use the pause button, it starts a buffer from there. You can pause 1 channel while recording another so it must have 2 encoders therefore hopefully not to difficult for sky to update sky+ to record 2 different programs.

Also if you pause a channel you can't go off to any tv guide or planner as you have to 'leave paused live tv'. Which means if you pause a program for 10mins and then want to check if you have set a program to record..... you can't http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif

1 Good thing about using tivo and sky+ together is that if your recording a sky channel on tivo and Sky+ starts a recording half way through, it doesn't change the channel so you don't messup your tivo recording.

1 Bad thing is that there is no Autoview on the planner anymore so you can't use tivo with sky untill the I.R codes are updated. The only way is to set tivo to record a program and leave sky on the channel you want to record.

In my opinion at this stage there is no winner between Sky+ and Tivo, they both have their good and bad points.

Once tivo update the i.r codes for sky+ then that would create tv heaven http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

[nemity]

Originally posted by GarySargent:
Couple of questions:

1. Does Sky+ handle recordings expiring like TiVo - that is have a "Save Until" feature, or do you need to manually delete recordings if you run out of disc space.

2. In the next software upgrade to TiVo we can do funky thinks like tell it to have a season pass for The Weather, but only ever keep one copy of it - that way you always have the latest weather report but don't fill up your hard disc with old ones. Anything advanced like this in Sky+ or is it all quite basic?




1. Recordings do expire, but this is a settable option with 3 choices:

a. You can have it entirely manual (ie you take care of all the deletions and if there is no room the programme wont get recorded

b. You can get warned when you are running low on space. You still have to delete your recordings to make more space.

c. You can have it entirely automatic where it will physically remove your programmes to make more room in the order of viewed programmes then un-viewed programmes.

2. At the moment you just has what tivo has (i.e the Series link option).


Interesting points of note I've seen :

The box has an optical out cable. The box it came in has a Dolby digital logo on it, so high hopes for DD films and sport in the future.

Programme clash warnings are also available.

It is possible to bookmark points in a single programme to return to later.

Box Office films are recordable, however you don't pay for them until you start watching them. When you start watching a film, you have a 24hr viewing window. If you don't watch it gets deleted in 7 days.


Like Tivo it remembers where you are in partially viewed programmes.

As confirmed, Sky+ and Sky use different remote codes, but Pronto and RC5000 users can rest easy as remote codes from Sky+ are 'learnable' with no problems. But beware, Tivo will not be in a rush to add Sky+ to their databases.


The new viweing card IS for the secondary box, you still use your primary one for Sky+

[nemity]

Another note...

Regarding padding... I had set up my Sky+ to record the Father Ted Series starting at 9.00p.m on E4. Interestingly, it kicked off recording at 8.58pm.. Auto padding at the start. Question is, what about the end? We shall see.

[pauljs]

Hang on a minute! Sky Plus is available and they haven't even sent me the info pack I asked for. Am I the only one not to have it?

BTW I'm not keen on the £10 charge for ??? and wish I was allowed to install myself. Yes I can do dishes too and I am not keen on a Sky "engineer" messing with my AV kit.
http://www.isp-choice.com/smilies/insane.gif

[This message has been edited by pauljs (edited 09-01-2001).]

[GarySargent]

I know what you mean - though when NTL came round they took one look at my equipment (http://zimmer.bjss.co.uk/misc/hifi.jpg) and told me to sort it out http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

(Thats an old picture by the way - I have even more stuff now!)


------------------
Find out everything TiVo: http://www.tivoportal.co.uk
Have your say and vote for the features you want on your UK TiVo: http://www.tivosuggestions.co.uk
Got a bug? http://www.tivobugs.co.uk

[scgf]

Originally posted by GarySargent:
I know what you mean - though when NTL came round they took one look at my equipment (http://zimmer.bjss.co.uk/misc/hifi.jpg) and told me to sort it out http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif


Gary, is that an Arcam AV50 I can see? You also appear to have an Arcam power amp. Do you bi-amp your speakers? I have an AV50 amp and 8P power amp, bi-amped to a pair of floor-standing Allison CD7 speakers and the sound is superb - I have never heard better.

[GarySargent]

Its an Arcam Alpha 10 Integrated Amp powering left and right front speakers. There's an Arcam Alpha 10 power amp with 3rd channel upgrade powering center and two rear speakers.

The dolby digital processing is done by the Pioneer SP-D07 processor.

Speakers are Kef Q65's front, Kef Q35's rear, Kef Model 200 Reference Series centre, and Rel Q400e subwoofer. All bi-wired but not bi-amped (yet!). And yes it all sounds absolutely superb http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif


------------------
Find out everything TiVo: http://www.tivoportal.co.uk
Have your say and vote for the features you want on your UK TiVo: http://www.tivosuggestions.co.uk
Got a bug? http://www.tivobugs.co.uk

[This message has been edited by GarySargent (edited 09-01-2001).]

[Automan]

The have just finished installing Sky+

Took 2hrs on site for one chap (on a Sunday Morning).

Anyway snags.

1. Can't use that dish, it's on the chimney. Retaining safety harness fixing points would need fitting which could damage your chimney! Only option, new dish at a different location.

Did not think the neighbours would like the noise at 09:00 Sunday morning but luckily I installed a system in the Kitchen and thus he fitted a new quad lnb to that dish.

The system...
It took 30 mins to get record features turned on via sat. If you don't pay the £10.00 a month Sky+ won't record or pause anything.

Next my old card was set to the box, easy 3 minutes.

Using The system...
1. The SVHS output does not switch aspect mode! (RGB okay)
2. Engineer says units are made by Amstrad for Pace!
3. Can't find a single series that's linked thus no auto episode record facility.
4. Picture not so good as my Sony box (slight fringing of images but still good).
5. Does not work with TiVo but if you have an Open keyboard it can be reprogrammed to work with Sky+ by pressing all the correct buttons!
6. Optical output does no more than it did on my old Sony Digibox, just 48Khz two channel.
7. Dual LNB cable has a max run of 30 metres.
8. Box is same width as TiVo but slighly deeper.
9. Packaged box of Sky+ is even bigger than TiVo box packaging.

I took some photos and will post these soon.

Automan.

I took some images and will post very soon.

[ozsat]

Originally posted by Automan:

1. Can't use that dish, it's on the chimney. Retaining safety harness fixing points would need fitting which could damage your chimney! Only option, new dish at a different location.

Installers don't like heights

The system...
It took 30 mins to get record features turned on via sat. If you don't pay the £10.00 a month Sky+ won't record or pause anything.

http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif

1. The SVHS output does not switch aspect mode! (RGB okay)

http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif

2. Engineer says units are made by Amstrad for Pace!

And are installed for ITV Digital free-of-charge for Sky ?

3. Can't find a single series that's linked thus no auto episode record facility.

Try EastEnders

4. Picture not so good as my Sony box (slight fringing of images but still good).

This is also being reported elsewhere

[Norm]

Can you set it to record a radio programme directly? If so, this would be a big plus for me over TiVo.

------------------
Regards

Norman

[sammoj]

Originally posted by GarySargent:
I know what you mean - though when NTL came round they took one look at my equipment (http://zimmer.bjss.co.uk/misc/hifi.jpg) and told me to sort it out http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

(Thats an old picture by the way - I have even more stuff now!)





I assume the kitchen sink is in the cupboard http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Automan]

At 11:15 this morning my Sky+ had it's 1st brainstorm!

It turned itself off and just left the remote control led illuminated (it was playing back a recording it was making).

Pressed the Sky key and it came back on and started making the recording again from that point (start of movie now lost).

I suppose it may have been installing a software update and like TiVo restarts without even asking?

Also I checked - NO, it won't record a radio channel!

Perhaps they should call it Sky HalfPlus!

See some of my images at http://www.stormpages.com/morlocks/skyplus.htm should you wish...

Automan.

[This message has been edited by Automan (edited 09-02-2001).]

[TivoUK]

You are doing better than me.

My Sky+ turned up at 10:00 and after 30 minutes of phone calls it went away again http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/confused.gif

I wanted old digibox moved to another room, and Sky+ installing.

The guys job sheet had just installing the Sky+, his work for the day was mapped out at knowing what he had to do, ends up that he could / would not do the extra work and left.

Now trying again for a week on Monday, the 10th. Am home that day as BT coming to install ADSL. Wonder if I will have a good day then...........http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/eek.gif

[This message has been edited by TivoUK (edited 09-02-2001).]

[Reeves29]

Originally posted by Automan:

It turned itself off and just left the remote control led illuminated (it was playing back a recording it was making).

Pressed the Sky key and it came back on and started making the recording again from that point (start of movie now lost).


Same thing happened to me last night, came back from the pub to find sky+ switched off and my Con Air recording 'failed' http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif

Not being able to record Radio channels is a pain.

Starting to miss using Tivo, not used the last couple of days, pointless until it can change channels.

How hard would it be for Tivo to update the I.R codes if they are already in the Open keyboard? I have tried various codes in tivos selections, nothing worked yet.

[GarySargent]

Thats a rediculous packaging box!

So does anyone fancy doing a Sky+ vs TiVo chart? I can stick it on http://www.tivoportal.co.uk somewhere if you want.


------------------
Find out everything TiVo: http://www.tivoportal.co.uk
Have your say and vote for the features you want on your UK TiVo: http://www.tivosuggestions.co.uk
Got a bug? http://www.tivobugs.co.uk

[This message has been edited by GarySargent (edited 09-02-2001).]

[Automan]

I also hope that Sky / Pace & TiVo can get the Sky+ IR codes added ASAP (looked for an update in IR database version, current rel is 87).

Compared with TiVo it's program guide is s**t

And with virtually no program series links (I refuse to check Eastenders) it's back to the manual days! However, the epg data does seem to follow actual start / finish times so perhaps when it does manage to make a recording it won't chop the end off!

If only we could have a Sky / TiVo intergrated unit - All us Sky viewers would have it made...

Of course, I could hook my Sony Digibox backup (got a new card) and link it to TiVo and my third dish feed (from my other dish on the chimney), pay another £12.99 a month and then TiVo could record again!

Automan.

[This message has been edited by Automan (edited 09-02-2001).]

[GarySargent]

There's no reason why TiVo wouldn't add the codes as it doesn't matter to them really if you have both Sky+ and TiVo - adding the codes doesn't help those that have Sky+ but not TiVo!

Automan have you tried some of the other IR codes TiVo has to see if any work? (Any Amstrad codes in there?! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/tongue.gif)


------------------
Find out everything TiVo: http://www.tivoportal.co.uk
Have your say and vote for the features you want on your UK TiVo: http://www.tivosuggestions.co.uk
Got a bug? http://www.tivobugs.co.uk

[Automan]

Automan have you tried some of the other IR codes TiVo has to see if any work? (Any Amstrad codes in there?!

Gary,
I've tried all the ones under Pace and following your suggestion will try the Amstrad ones...

Of course with Sky+ I can do this while it's recording as it uses the second lnb feed exclusively for making booked recordings (it's recording Objective Burma on 104 at the moment and so far it's not rebooted!).

Of course, the other marvel of Sky+ is its pretty led display indicating playback etc. This can be turned off.

Automan.

Followup...
Gary,
No joy so I followed TiVo's advice and telephoned Customer Services.


No code. It will be added but they have been busy working on a new software release and thus had no idea when a code would be availble.

TiVo is not designed to control another pvr.


I still think it may be a couple of months...

Automan.

[This message has been edited by Automan (edited 09-02-2001).]

[Reeves29]

Originally posted by Automan:

Of course, I could hook my Sony Digibox backup (got a new card) and link it to TiVo and my third dish feed (from my other dish on the chimney), pay another £12.99 a month and then TiVo could record again!

Automan.

[This message has been edited by Automan (edited 09-02-2001).]

Automan, is your new card for free channels or for £12.99 a month sub?

Thought about using my Panasonic box for free channels, (would need to get on the roof to run cable from the 3rd lnb feed) didn't want to pay sky £25 extra to install my second box when i can do it myself. I am not going to pay £12.99 for a second sub myself £52 a month for Tv is about my max.

(btw, did you look at the Quad LNB? is the 4 connectors the same as on the back of the digibox's?

[sammoj]

Originally posted by TivoUK:

Now trying again for a week on Monday, the 10th. Am home that day as BT coming to install ADSL. Wonder if I will have a good day then...........http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/eek.gif

[This message has been edited by TivoUK (edited 09-02-2001).]


ADSL Installed - ha, you thought you had problems with Tivo - good luck, hope you don't use an Athlon PC or Via chipset.... http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Believe me your fun is about to begin, out of 40 days since I installed I have had 31 with interruptions, poor responses or no service at all - I'll live with the last 2 minutes of Eastenders being missing compared to BT OpenWoe.

[cjgpers]

automan,
You could test series link tonight on Disney at 11pm


------------------
Chris Gray

[nemity]

Originally posted by Automan:
And with virtually no program series links (I refuse to check Eastenders) it's back to the manual days! However, the epg data does seem to follow actual start / finish times so perhaps when it does manage to make a recording it won't chop the end off!)

Sky+ automatically pads the beginning and end by 2 mins either side. (That's assuming it is not recording either anything before or after).

[nemity]

Originally posted by sammoj:

ADSL Installed - ha, you thought you had problems with Tivo - good luck, hope you don't use an Athlon PC or Via chipset.... http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Believe me your fun is about to begin, out of 40 days since I installed I have had 31 with interruptions, poor responses or no service at all - I'll live with the last 2 minutes of Eastenders being missing compared to BT OpenWoe.



My ADSL has been installed for at least a year and in that time it only has dropped twice and I've never called support.

[sammoj]

I am impressed - looking at the newsgroups this does not seem to be the general impression of BT Open World.

Anyway, enough of that - has nothing to do with Tivo...... http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Automan]

Just watching Escape To Victory recorded form Sky Cinema...
Sky+ started recording 7 minutes before the movie started!

Watched UFO (6% disc space), The Fugitive (4% disc space) which were both hour shows....

I have now found some linked programs to record...

1. Stargate (which I could not find in the A-Z under Sci-Fi, had to go to Wednesday's progs to find it).
2. Voyager
3. Andromeda

However no series links for any of the following
1. The Twilight Zone
2. Sliders
3. Poldark
4. LA Law
5. Hawaii 5-0

And re some earlier question..
Yes, they sent me another viewing card but of course it would cost £12.99 a month to activate.

A picture of the quad lnb which has four normal (but very close together 'f' connectors) can be seen at http://www.stormpages.com/morlocks/skyplus.htm (It's a Philips SC519QS/S).

Automan.

[GarySargent]

Originally posted by Automan:
A picture of the quad lnb which has four normal (but very close together 'f' connectors) can be seen at http://www.stormpages.com/morlocks/skyplus.htm (It's a Philips SC519QS/S).

Agh - you cunningly removed your TiVo service number - but I'm a dab hand at reading the barcode form... http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif (not!)


------------------
Find out everything TiVo: http://www.tivoportal.co.uk
Have your say and vote for the features you want on your UK TiVo: http://www.tivosuggestions.co.uk
Got a bug? http://www.tivobugs.co.uk

[Automan]

TiVo number removed to protect the innocent!
My box now has 42 jobs booked to record over the next seven days (used picture & picture mode to view both TiVo & Sky+ screens).

When you get to the bottom of a page of booked events and you press page down it takes 4 seconds before the next page is displayed!

Also you can’t jump to the end of a recording (to make sure it’s not been chopped off), the only option is to watch the whole thing at x12 speed! (You can however jump to the start of a recording).

As reported, if a recording is booked for 22:00 it starts at 21:58 unless it’s recording something ending at 22:00 in which case that’s the changeover time.
I expected digital precision epg control, not just to stick a couple of minutes on… Just means even more time is wasted at 12x ff.

Also, when you go out of fast forward it does not jump back a few seconds (like TiVo does). Thus you have to be really alert not to miss the action.

Automan.

[TivoUK]

Not a good weekend on the PVR front http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif

Called the Thomson agent for Tivo (have a call in for the NICAM fix - then I can put my new 2 X 80 gig. discs in!!!http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/cool.gif as they told me a week ago I was going to get a new box, but they did not have it yet.

Turns out they still do not have one to give me yet, so I hope it arrives this week so I can do the work this weekend.

So, if all goes well http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/eek.gif I might have a new Tivo (upgraded), Sky + and ADSL by Monday.

Hands up if you think it will really happen like that ...http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

[This message has been edited by TivoUK (edited 09-03-2001).]

[This message has been edited by TivoUK (edited 09-03-2001).]

[Norm]

Well I've cancelled my order for Sky+. It was supposed to have been installed on Saturday but they eventually told me at 2.30 that the engineer was ill and the earliest new date they could give me was in 2 weeks, after I will be in hospital for an operation.

The delay and your posts have given me pause for thought. The fact that TiVo cannot control the new box (and I amagine won't be able to for some time) and the inability to record radio are big minuses for me.

I can always reconsider later on and, who knows, it may even be a little cheaper by then. I'll probably go for it once I know TiVo can control the viewing channel. I can't be bothered to have to keep changing the DigiBox channel so TiVo can record and it's pointless if you can't record on TiVo 2 programmes on different channels on the same day (when I'm out).

PS Since starting to type this post, I have just had a message that the engineer is arriving today between 12 and 3. Too late - I've cancelled!

------------------
Regards

Norman

[Automan]

I have just been reading the manual for my Sky+

It says on page 11 about live pause that if you do pause your Sky+ set top box will then record until the end of the programme.

Does this indicate that you then miss the beginning of the next program?

If so, bad sky+

I shall try it later...

I also note that the VCR in socket supports RGB input.

Also to confirm page 32 says
Your Sky+ set top box cannot record audio-only programmes or interactive applications.

However, pin control works ok on rated recording both to book them to record and for playback so if you have young children this must be a plus.

Box office events can also be recorded and if you don't watch them no charge. If you do watch you can view as many times as you wish for a 24hr slot from the 1st time you watch. Auto delete will then occur (some movies may have extra limits imposed to change these values).

Also changing channels is instant as is the on-screen guides.

Automan.

[This message has been edited by Automan (edited 09-03-2001).]

[Norm]

If the DigiBox is off, will it turn itself on to record?

------------------
Regards

Norman

[Automan]

Sky+ only needs to be on in standby mode to make recordings. Thus no fears form power cuts / software updates (unless the update happens while it's recording?).

P.S. My unit is being fed by a 625VA ups and it registers a 7% load.

Automan.

[Norm]

Can I repeat a question I asked earlier as now you are getting more experienced in using Sky+.

With an ordinary DigiBox you can use your Personal Planner from the EPG automatically to change the viewing channel to a particular programme. Do you still have that facility in the Sky+ box - ie without recording?

If so, I presume it changes the viewing channel and not the recording channel? If so, presumably you can set up all the programmes you want to record on TiVo so that the Sky+ box changes the viewing channel so TiVo can record them.

Will this work? At least it would mean that you only have to duplicate your settings on the 2 boxes and not have to rely on manually changing the Sky channel whenever TiVo is about to record something.

------------------
Regards

Norman

[nemity]

Yes, reminders can be set to change channel independently of making recordings. Thus it's possible to set tivo to record something on Sky+ and record it as long as you set the duplicated AutoChange reminder to go with it.

Also something I didn't see before, reminders also can have the Series Link tied to them as well. So you can autochange every episode of EastEnders if you wish, without recording any of them.

[Automan]

Norm,
I think not. If you book a recording with the pp it uses the second lnb and does not display the channel it's recording.

If you set the pp for a reminder and the box is on it only pops up with a message suggesting you change channels (I think, will confirm later to see if it actually changes the channel).

If the reminder does change channel unattended this will be great and will help tivo make recordings.

Thanks for the idea Norm.

P.S. Not used to the pp as it never made to my model of Sony Digibox.

Automan.

[ChrisA]

This point was mentioned earlier but is CRITICAL to getting your SKY+ Box. If the dish is on the chimney & it is single brick ALL standard installers would have to drill a 20mm hole in the thing for health and saftey codes, or as in my case and many others get a trained hight's team with the correct equipment to perform the install. I feel this point should have been raised during the booking process so as to save all the rebooking and delay etc. I am now in two minds based on other things I have read about just cancelling the whole thing!! By the way I was the installers 3rd cancellation for the day due to this problem. So it is not just a flyer, and it is only noon.

[Automan]

Yes, the chap who installed my system who was a field service tech (rather than a system installer) said one of the three he was doing on Saturday had to be cancelled because the dish was on the chimney.

Automan.

[Reeves29]

Originally posted by Automan:
It says on page 11 about live pause that if you do pause your Sky+ set top box will then record until the end of the programme.

Does this indicate that you then miss the beginning of the next program?

[This message has been edited by Automan (edited 09-03-2001).]

Don't know if you got around to trying this, but you DO miss the start of the next program. When the program finishes (plus the 2 mins) you get the message 'press select to go back to live tv' when you do it goes back to realtime http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif

[RichardBourke]

It's interesting how we all thought thought that Sky+ sounded great until people actually saw what it was like!

It sounds to me like Tivo is loads better - if it had padding, then it should kill Sky+. Maybe it will work just how Tivo were hoping: that Sky will do a lot of the marketting and advertising for the PVR concept, and then people will buy Tivo because it is better.

Like Norm I won't get Sky+ if it can't record radio channels.

Richard.

[Automan]

Will this work? At least it would mean that you only have to duplicate your settings on the 2 boxes and not have to rely on manually changing the Sky channel whenever TiVo is about to record something

Norm,
Alas no! The PP reminder message just stays onscreen waiting for you to press select or backup and thus it won't change channel for a TiVo recording.

And yes, the pause live TV SUCKS!
If for example at 19:25 you answer the phone while watching the simpsons and press pause - all well and good.

15 minutes later you press play and it resumes. However it stops recording at the end of the first simpsons and thus you miss the 1st 10 minutes of whats on next....

This really is VERY POOR SHOW!

Automan.

[Automan]

I think I now have my 1st Sky+ bug!
Tried to see if you could get subtitles to work on playback - answer yes!

Then I went to watch another recording from UK Gold.
With the extra 2 mins on the front I selected ff x12 to get to the program. One snag, it gets stuck at high speed and won't respond to any controls. I also noted that when this happend the onscreen rotating green display stops rotating and only moved erratically (does not effect the led display on stb front).

I have turned subtitles off and so far it seems okay again but I shall replay the recording from start to confirm.

By the way, it does record the old style teletext from UK Gold but it's very erratic (I seem to recall it was like that live on sky?).

Automan.

[malcom]

Is the two minute padding really enough to stop the missing of the end of some programs ? I would not have thaught so.

[Automan]

Is the two minute padding really enough to stop the missing of the end of some programs ? I would not have thaught so

So far it's been okay and some channels seem to adjust the epg data start/end times to match the programs actual start/end times.

It for example manage to capture both "The Simpsons" on BBC2 tonight without chopping any starts/ends off

Just rechecked the fast forward (and rewind) and yes, the problem is cleared if subtitles are turned off (the fault was repeatable).

For info, Sky+ seems to use space up as follows...

130 Twilight Zone (29mins, 2%)
109 Poldark (62mins, 6%)
102 The Simpsons (25mins, 2%)

Automan.

[Automan]

Some small extra info...
1. Yes, the TV Link mouse works with Sky+ but your old Sky remote won't. (setup menu for second rf port power in the same place as original digiboxes).

2. Open keypad, to reprogram for Sky+ proceed as follows
A. Press TV
B. Press Select & Blue together (two led flashes)
C. Press 2
D. Press Select (two led flashes)

Done...
This also works on the Sky remote but most buttons don't seem to work (may vary on age of remote).

To revert the remote back press 1 in step C. (or take the batts out for 30 mins).

Automan.

[sammoj]

Can you watch one program on the tv link whilst viewing another on the main scart output or does it function like a current digibox where both TV's display the same channel. If so, I think it's "mysky" with a panasonic digiboc for me with my Tivo.

John

[Automan]

Can you watch one program on the tv link whilst viewing another on the main scart output or does it function like a current digibox where both TV's display the same channel. If so, I think it's "mysky" with a panasonic digiboc for me with my Tivo.

John,
I'm afraid not. It only has one MPEG decoder output stage and thus only can pump out one thing at a time.

However, I've now watched 14 recording and none have had their start's or ends cutoff and the picture is a bit better as it not remanufactured mpeg.

Automan.

[sammoj]

OK - Thanks for the prompt response.

So, this doesn't solve my problem - I want to be able to watch one Sky channel while my Son watches bloody Rugrats!

It looks like I stick with onDigital for 6 more months paired with the Tivo and then think about MySky. From what I have seen so far Tivo appears to be the superior product with V2.5.5 going to knock the socks of Sky+ - lets just hope they survive the Sky+ marketing battle.

Can't work out what is going on with Sky buying into Tivo and launching Sky+ - boy would I love to be a fly on the chairmans wall just to find out what the real game is.

Oh well, time will tell.

John

[Reeves29]

Originally posted by Automan:
the TV Link mouse works with Sky+ but your old Sky remote won't. (setup menu for second rf port power in the same place as original digiboxes).



There goes my idea of getting tivo to control sky+ box http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif

[richard plumb]

see, Sky+ isn't all doom and gloom. We can now compare and contrast the two systems, which is good for everyone.

About the pausing of live TV - if I pause during Eastenders, and it gets to the end and brings up the message 'press select to return to live TV', can I still unpause and watch the end of eastenders? Is it actually saved as a recording?

[Automan]

I want to be able to watch one Sky channel while my Son watches bloody Rugrats!

You can only watch one live channel with Sky+
If you want to watch two live channels you need the second box option at an extra £12.99 per month.

True, if you pause Eastenders it will record it to the end of the episode but you won't get to see the next program...

I guess TiVo's 30 minute buffer & Sky+'s record to program end both have merits.

With TiVo if you are away from your TV for 45 minutes the 30 minute buffer will expire and thus you will miss the program end. Sky+ however will just record to the program end and wait for you to press the play button.

P.S. I have had the fast forward / rewind problem again where it gets stuck at high speed and won't respond to the remote (rotating graphic circle goes erratic when this happens). Anyone else had this problem? Only so far on chn 109 & 124 perhaps bit rate related?

Automan.

[njkmoore]

I agree with RichardBourke - it was a very unfair comparison to make between TiVo and Sky+, before the latter had been rolled out. We are currently using software for TiVo that has hardly changed in over a year and is about to be updated. Comparing that with an idealised Sky+, that is assumed bug-free, hardly seems reasonable. This is especially true as it is the glitches that cause the most aggrovation and we are only just beginning to see the Sky+ problems.

My personal prediction is that Sky will come under a lot of pressure from advertisers to prevent ad skipping. This issue is looming ominously in the states and will surely follow here. This may become the USP of TiVo vs combined boxes.

Having said all that, TiVo must get 2.5.5 out soon - roll out the beta please!

[This message has been edited by njkmoore (edited 09-04-2001).]

[sammoj]

Originally posted by richard plumb:
[B]see, Sky+ isn't all doom and gloom. We can now compare and contrast the two systems, which is good for everyone.

B]


I never doubted that Tivo would be a technically superior product, it is the marketing & strange relationship with Sky that had me concerned.

I am, however, relieved to see so many new members popping up here recently after Sky+ is released. This inferes that they made the choice and opted for Tivo - this is good news for all of us who have invested in the little chap.

John

[TivoUK]

Question for the Sky + owners.

I record stuff for myself from the digibox on the Tivo, with the digibox set to widescreen. However, I also record stuff for a US friend and dub them to tape at the weekend.

At the moment I have to change the digibox from 16X9 to 4X3 when I record his stuff and that is a bit of a pain as I work away during the week and it means that weeks shows are 4X3 or letterboxed.

With the Sky+ recording the data stream, if I just change the TV option from 16X9 to 4X3 when I dub his shows to tape, will shows recorded with the setting at 16X9 play back in 4X3 format??

[Automan]

Just recording a bit of the 13th Floor from chn 305 (Sky Mov W/S) with my normal Sky+ box setings (16x9).

Box says by the way about this recording

"PartRec: 1m, Startmissed, 10.00pm Tue 4 Used 1%"

Plays back perfect in 16x9 mode

Now setting Sky+ to 4:3 Letterbox

Plays back perfect in 4:3 letterbox (on my 4:3 telly in kitchen)

New setting Sky+ to 4:3 Letterbox Off

Again perfect fullscreen 4:3 playback on a 4:3 telly.

So yes TivoUK you can play the recordings back with the correct aspect ratio on 4:3 or 16:9 kit.

Another Sky+ bonus!

Now back to The Simpsons which Sky+ tells me I'm 5 minutes into.

Automan.

[This message has been edited by Automan (edited 09-04-2001).]

[pauljs]

Automan


Please, is there any chance of seeing some screen shots (or Photos) of the Sky + EPG, menu's etc

Thanks for the pictures of the install on your web page.

I'm surprised they have gone for a quad LNB, My dish is a ground mount in the garden so I would have to run cable myself otherwise they would walk away as it would be a non standard install

[Automan]

Pauljs,
The engineer did 1st offer to stick a third Sky dish on the house but I thought at 09:00am the neighbours might get slightly annoyed at someone drilling more holes!

Thus he said we could use that dish which is well secured to the wall and of course is easy to service - it suits me.

I shall also take some Sky+ menu shots very soon (via the S-VHS output to my PC).

Automan.

[TivoUK]

Thanks for the info on the 4:3 16:9 question, put my mind to rest and my US friend will be pleased with his recordings!

Now, if only they turn up on Monday as promised and can do the install this time http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

[GarySargent]

I've had an email from someone who claims Sky said that he could have a lifetime subscription to Sky+ for £100 !

I've double checked it with him and he says: "All I have to do is tell the engineer at installation that I want the lifetime sub of £100 and it will be done. I queried it with the sales guy and he assured me it was available."

First I've heard of this...


------------------
Find out everything TiVo: http://www.tivoportal.co.uk
Have your say and vote for the features you want on your UK TiVo: http://www.tivosuggestions.co.uk
Got a bug? http://www.tivobugs.co.uk

[ChrisA]

As a result of Gary's last post I have just phoned SKY to check up about this £100 lifetime sub. The SKY represntative checked up through supervisor level regaring this matter on my behalf. I have been authorised by the person on the phone to state that this is NOT the case there is no £100 lifetime sub option!! The representative has now passed on the information to other people at SKY to make sure via the Internet that this apparent miss-information is stopped.

[HouseOfHaggis]

Maybe this is a confusion of the staff offer. Apparently Sky staff are entitled to a lifetime subscription to the Sky+ system. Except that was supposed to be £50 not £100.

It's not available until the 17th anyway. If indeed it is available at all.

[Automan]

A request was made for some Sky+ screen images...

Thus visit http://www.stormpages.com/morlocks/samples/samples.htm for some samples....

Please note that each of the sub pages from this page (eight of), may take up to 2 mins to load on a V90 connection.

Automan.

[chimaera]

Originally posted by nemity:
Interestingly, it kicked off recording at 8.58pm.. Auto padding at the start. Question is, what about the end? We shall see.


That might not be quite such a good feature if/when advert skip is disabled!

[GarySargent]

Originally posted by Automan:
A request was made for some Sky+ screen images...

Thus visit http://www.stormpages.com/morlocks/samples/samples.htm for some samples....

Thanks Automan - very interesting.

My initial impressions are that it looks a little clunky to use but obviously its hard to tell from screen shots (especially when you aren't used to using it).

Whats it like to use? Is it easy or are you always having to think about what button you need to press? Seems to overuse the colour buttons.


------------------
Find out everything TiVo: http://www.tivoportal.co.uk
Have your say and vote for the features you want on your UK TiVo: http://www.tivosuggestions.co.uk
Got a bug? http://www.tivobugs.co.uk

[chimaera]

Originally posted by Automan:
A request was made for some Sky+ screen images...

Very interesting, thanks for that.

It looks like the EPG has less space for an individual programme description than TiVo. However, it may be more accurate http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif Since it only has 7 days of guide data, what happens when you go on holiday for longer than that?

[Automan]

Whats it like to use? Is it easy or are you always having to think about what button you need to press? Seems to overuse the colour buttons.

Gary, I must admit for the first couple of time I pressed the red button thinking it was for record!
Other than that, it's okay and if it's for a user upgrading from a standard Digibox I'm sure they will get used to the changes very quick.

One does have to get used to returning to the Personal Planner to delete what you have just watched and press yellow. I suppose they expect people to just let the items auto delete?

Automan.

[Automan]

what happens when you go on holiday for longer than that?
If the series links were all in place and your recordings don't add up to more than 20hrs you are okay.

Of course, I can't afford to go on holiday anymore!

You can press the Information button on a item in the EPG for more information on it.

Automan.

[xneilj]

Hey thanks for that Automan. Interesting to see it in action. Personally I think I prefer the TiVo interface (too many large fonts and garish colour schemes in use on Sky+ for my liking) but as Gary says, you don't really know what it's like until you start using it. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Neil.



------------------
See the TiVo UK FAQ at http://www.tivoukfaq.com

[Automan]

As my TiVo box is not much use linked to Sky+ (till an IR database update or someone finds out if you can press all the right buttons on the STB to change it's IR codes) it's not doing much.

Thus I've hooked it up to my ITV Digital Box!
I impressed that it converted my season passes that were on Sky channels to record from ITV Digital equivalents (except Sci-Fi ones that have ??? ?? for channel numbers).

I did however note that IR channel changing was a little "erratic" - Not a problem with Sky+

Also if you think the onscreen menu's are bright, take a look at this http://www.stormpages.com/morlocks/samples/page9.htm (just added)

Automan.


[This message has been edited by Automan (edited 09-05-2001).]

[xneilj]

You've probably tried this already but if you're using it with a FAST IR setting, try dropping it to medium. What STB do you have anyway?

Neil.

------------------
See the TiVo UK FAQ at http://www.tivoukfaq.com

[Automan]

You've probably tried this already but if you're using it with a FAST IR setting, try dropping it to medium. What STB do you have anyway?

It's the new Pioneer model.
In medium speed the box only thinks the digits are to far apart and says no such channel as it repsonds to one digit.

Thus it's on fast.

IR is a major downfall with the current UK TiVo model but I recall the new software release should improve it? But when?

Automan.

[GarySargent]

Automan I'm real grateful for these pictures and explanations, but would you mind producing a Macromedia Flash demonstration programme so I can try using it - oh and then if you can hook up the box to your PC and let me control and view it remotely that would be superb http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif


------------------
Find out everything TiVo: http://www.tivoportal.co.uk
Have your say and vote for the features you want on your UK TiVo: http://www.tivosuggestions.co.uk
Got a bug? http://www.tivobugs.co.uk

[Ickle yoda]

Automan....

There is another menu, the installer setup. Press services then select system setup. On that screen press 0 then 1 then select. It brings up more options, be careful though one of them you can erase your whole hard disks recording at a touch of the select button to "confirm" argh!

[Automan]

Yes, I assume it's option 7? Was not bold enought to select it!

Anyway, I noticed a cosmetic error on a menu so with that and the FF problem and duplicate enries in the PP I thought a call to Sky was in hand see http://www.stormpages.com/morlocks/samples/page10.htm for evidence of errors.

Anyway, I paused chn 998 to get the number just before 20:00. At that point it got stuck with the press Select or Backup to resume liveTV. It would not. Not till I ff to catchup with live and then pressed Sky. Perhaps this bug occurs when you have paused live when it starts a recording (Stargate).

Anyway, I explained that - no one else has complained.
fast forward sometime erratic - no one else has complained.
Dialing Typ message onscreen - It did not do this after 20:00 on my system or theirs!

They did suggest I try resetting the system (mains plug out) Said I've done that plus it's recording Stargate.

Anyway, they said they would esculate my problems.

Automan.

[GarySargent]

Yes but they also say that no one has reported the fact that the digiboxes reboot all the time. Did they offer to send an engineer out to you for £50? http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif


------------------
Find out everything TiVo: http://www.tivoportal.co.uk
Have your say and vote for the features you want on your UK TiVo: http://www.tivosuggestions.co.uk
Got a bug? http://www.tivobugs.co.uk

[mrtickle]

I understand that that scam has gone up to £60 http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Reeves29]

I am sure that if your box is under 1 year old (which sky+ is of course) that the engineer call out is free?

It was when i had alot of problems with my old Pace box's. Hope pace's sky+ box is more reliable, don't want to go through that again.

[Automan]

Just in case it's signal / LNB related (the FF/RW problem) I've just linked the LNB2 input to my original dish (it does however give lower readings than the new quad lnb).

Anyone else having problems with Sky+ ?

Automan.

[Reeves29]

i have had fast forward 'crash', fast forward being stuck on screen but not actually moving (only way out was to press tv guide). Only seemed to happen on 1 recording, and was repeatable on that recording.

[Automan]

Reeves29,
I glad to know I'm not alone!
Many Thanks

I suspect the user interface during playback does not cope with glitches in satelite reception.

P.S. I set my TiVo (now linked to ITV Digital) to record an episode of M*A*S*H this morning from Sky One and yes! It cut the last two minutes off!

Perhaps Sky will run everything two minutes late to p*** TiVo owners off?

Automan.

[gmilward]

AUTOMAN........Hi I'm quite new to the forum and think its great. I have recently ordered Sky+ and am interested to find out more about the Bookmark function. Is it available yet and if so is it any good? If it is possible could you post a couple of pics of the bookmark function?

Thanks a lot.

------------------
GM

[Automan]

could you post a couple of pics of the bookmark function?

Will start taking some screen dumps now...

Done! http://www.stormpages.com/morlocks/samples/samples.htm And select Page 11

Also bookmarks do work with livetv pause mode.

Automan.

[This message has been edited by Automan (edited 09-06-2001).]

[gmilward]

AUTOMAN!!! Thank you so much for them, many thanks!!

What do you personally think of Sky+? Obviously at the mo its maybe not quite as good as TIVO but its OK yeah?

------------------
GM

[Automan]

GM,
Yes Sky+ is okay and one of my colleagues at work who had ITV Digital ordered one today. Install on 15th of this month.

Product not perfect and not as smart as TiVo but does have features that TiVo does not.

Plus Point's
Less Boxes In Your Living Room
Fast Operation and channel surfing
Always Records The Correct Channel
Bookmarks
No Daily Phone Call
Can record Boxoffice 18 rated events
Parental control on recordings
PCM CD Quality Sound
Always broadcast quality picture
So far I've yet to miss the start or end of a recording
Noise level generated by box no worse than TiVo
Can record one channel while you watch another (or the same).
Only takes a minute after powerup before you can play rather than 3hours).
Box has more "style" to the naked eye.
State Of The Art product

Minus Point's
Only 7 Days Of Program Guide.
Personal Planner is primitive with only some series links.
Remote won't control your amp.
Only works with Sky TV channels that are in the EPG
No slight rewind after fast forward so you have to be quick not to miss the action (when your skip the adds).

If I was going to buy a Personal Television Recorder (PTR) I think I would go for Sky+

However I would prefer a intergated TiVo Sky box (TiVo+) and am keen to see/use the next beta release of TiVo software.

I'm sure others would disagree with some of the above...

Automan.

[GarySargent]

As I've just said in another thread the two products are different enough to complement each other nicely and its really up to individual consumers to decide which product is right for them.

Neither is really better than the other overall, but each does some things better than the other.


------------------
Find out everything TiVo: http://www.tivoportal.co.uk
Have your say and vote for the features you want on your UK TiVo: http://www.tivosuggestions.co.uk
Got a bug? http://www.tivobugs.co.uk

[GarySargent]

Now that we've got over the initial excitement of the Sky+ launch I'm going to retitle this thread "Sky+ discussion" and if we could try and keep all Sky+ discussions in this thread that would be superb http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Thanks.


------------------
Find out everything TiVo: http://www.tivoportal.co.uk
Have your say and vote for the features you want on your UK TiVo: http://www.tivosuggestions.co.uk
Got a bug? http://www.tivobugs.co.uk

[gmilward]

Originally posted by Automan:
Fast Operation and channel surfing

You say this but does it differ from box to box (the signal quality etc.) or are they all generally quick?

P.S Thanks for your view!



------------------
GM

[Yorkshirelad6]

Originally posted by Automan:
Plus Point's
.
.
No Daily Phone Call
.

How do you know? It might not need a daily phone call for listing updates, but maybe it is making them for other reasons?

Apparantly (I've not seen it) the Sky+ sign-up contract makes a big deal about the phone line being left connected, and also implies that viewing habits may be transmitted to Sky...

I'd be curious to know what the installation engineers are making of this phone line connection requirement. In the heady days of "normal" Sky installations some people did not get connected to the phone ("too much effort" for the engineer). I know some of them who later had problems with Sky, as the phone connection was a condition of the subsidised deal, and Sky were able to check by calling up the STB

YorkshireLad6

[nemity]

My understanding of the phone line is nothing more than for validation of ensuring that the box is connected to a uk phone line.

Since it receives all its info via the dish (Shedules, Software updates etc.) it wont need to make unsolicited phone calls. And what would be the point?

The only time I know it makes calls is when the user asks it to (ie Online Banking etc).

[Automan]

Channel surfing is a fast as any modern Digibox as are most of the menu's. Infact late last night I went to use my TiVo to replay a movie from Carlton Cinema and after using Sky+ they seemed really slow & cranky.

Also, I did not have to watch the movie as TiVo got the IR wrong and select 88 and not 28! Of course it selected 28 at recording end!

No Daily Phone Call
It does not use the phone for any program guide data but of course does make the ocassional call if you change your pin, ppv event etc.
Viewing habbit data I suppose may be uploaded but I suspect it would not do this daily.

Also if it's like earlier boxes it's V90 modem can detect that the phone line is in use (unlike TiVo seems to wheter detection is turned off or on).

Automan.

[mark_shelley]

When I ordered my Sky+ box it was made very clear to me that as part of the Sky+ subscription I aggree to it being connected to a telephone line for the purpose of monitoring viewing habits and what kind of programs I record. This would be completely anonymous and used for market research purposes.

[HouseOfHaggis]

Finally managed to order Sky+ (slight cash flow problems). It is installed next Friday (14th).

Automan, my browser does not seem to load the "Michael Knight would be proud" picture (page 9). Are there any problems with this that you know of ?.

Mark, sky did at no point tell me that the viewing information would be kept anonymous. They only said that it would not be passed to a 3rd party. Are you sure about the anonymous part ?

Ross.

[kmusgrave]

Originally posted by GarySargent:
As I've just said in another thread the two products are different enough to complement each other nicely and its really up to individual consumers to decide which product is right for them.


So we have to have both? OK - sounds fine to me.....

Kevin

[Automan]

Automan, my browser does not seem to load the "Michael Knight would be proud" picture (page 9). Are there any problems with this that you know of ?.

The video should be ok but it's only hosted on free webspace so it may be slow (wehn it works, you will see the Michael Knight connection!).

I expect Sky want the same kind of marketing info out of their boxes as TiVo do out of their's.

Automan.

[ChrisA]

SKY+ with dish located at same hight as Automan = OK
SKY+ with dish located on chimney = SKY--. I posted earlier regarding the hight problem. However I am now seriously fed up. (Typical British understatement!). Looks like weeks if not MONTHS before they can instal my system, because of the location of the blasted dish. Gary this is an obvious MAJOR advantage for TiVo. I have made several phone calls to SKY during the week and recieved a different reason for no progress on each occasion. (Nothing new there then!) As I write this I am still waiting for someone to contact me yet again, to fix a date. FYI on a previous phone call I was told it could take this long to get someone out to me.

[GarySargent]

You can buy a Sky+ box from Comet, Currys etc and get an independant installer to sort things out for you (who will be more inclined to go on the roof etc). According to the Sky+ warrenty though if not installed by Sky this becomes void - however I'd be amazed if they could make that stick in UK law.


------------------
Find out everything TiVo: http://www.tivoportal.co.uk
Have your say and vote for the features you want on your UK TiVo: http://www.tivosuggestions.co.uk
Got a bug? http://www.tivobugs.co.uk

[pr1uk]

Originally posted by GarySargent:
You can buy a Sky+ box from Comet, Currys etc and get an independant installer to sort things out for you (who will be more inclined to go on the roof etc). According to the Sky+ warrenty though if not installed by Sky this becomes void - however I'd be amazed if they could make that stick in UK law.
...................
i think the law on this matter is if the dish is below the gutter then its ok above the gutter and planning permission is needed. so Sky will not place a dish on the roof and end up liable to prosecution.

Peter

[ChrisA]

Just checked up with the credit card company. You guessed it SKY charged my credit card for the box and relocation of the old box on the 3rd September (£375) which was the original install date. Now I am really pi**ed off.

[GarySargent]

Originally posted by pr1uk:
i think the law on this matter is if the dish is below the gutter then its ok above the gutter and planning permission is needed. so Sky will not place a dish on the roof and end up liable to prosecution.

Peter

I was meaning I don't think they can claim the warrenty is void just because you installed it yourself - not unless they can prove it only failed because it was installed incorrectly.

I think its more to do with engineers being insured for going on the roof rather than planning permission - thats your problem not Sky's.


------------------
Find out everything TiVo: http://www.tivoportal.co.uk
Have your say and vote for the features you want on your UK TiVo: http://www.tivosuggestions.co.uk
Got a bug? http://www.tivobugs.co.uk

[ChrisA]

One final winge about SKY+. SKY take your money, cannot install due to height. When you escalate the call to executive level you learn that this height thing is a MASSIVE problem for SKY, trained teams are many MONTHS behind, if indeed they are available. They do not have a clue as to when any team may even be trained for my area. Birmingham is obviously sparsely populated!! I asked if I might get it this year. "Sorry I don't have a clue, might well be next year, oh and don't go to an independant because SKY have to install it!" Bu**er off SKY give me my money back now and you know where you can stick your SKY----------.

[Automan]

Sounds like Sky should buy some "Cherry Pickers" to help install dishes.

I note today that the TiVo IR database has moved up to Rel 88.

Does by chance it now support Sky+ ?

Automan.

[ChrisA]

Not if it is on the chimney! Sorry Automan could not resist the reply. By the way top marks for the web pages on SKY+, glad someone knows what they are doing. By the way SKY contacted me again to try to rescue the situation and promised someone would contact me on Monday to arrange an install date. We shall see.....

[Automan]

ChrisA,
Good luck with your install...
I'm sure Sky are not happy about all these legal/safety hassles re installing dishes.

Today I have also been getting "mpeg blocky" recordings mainly on the sci-fi channel!

I get this using either of my dishes and thus am wondering if these pace/amstrad boxes have a less sensitive tuner than my last digibox.

I may try and "tweak" the dish alignment in the morning...

Automan.

[Automan]

I have a Sky+ problem!
I no longer get any sound on two Sky Channels! - All the rest seem okay.
Anyway Sky 310 & 312 are silent on my box via livetv / pause or record playback.
After 20min chat to Sky they are going to get an engineer out. I find it hard to believe that a box fault could loose sound on two channels only?
Anyone else got a prob with those channels?

My Sci-Fi channel reception is also poor and having compared my dishes original lnb with the new one. It seems the distance from the feedhorn to dish is different. If so, this would affect the performance of the dish. I think I will get a 60cm dish for genral better reception...

Automan.

[Automan]

Since giving my box more fresh air the picture on the sci-fi channel is okay again and no loss of audio on certain movie channels! - Must be the quality Amstrad construction! (The box get's a lot hotter than a TiVo, 89.2f in a 67.8f ambient).

Last night I set it to record all Father Ted's from E4

It did get them all but the last three episode ends were in the next recordings. However it did get them all.

Did anyone record them with their TiVo? How did it get on?

This morning even starting two minutes early it missed the start of the Doctor Who on chn 109.

These are the only missed start/ends so far...

Automan.

[This message has been edited by Automan (edited 09-09-2001).]

[Richardr]

Originally posted by Automan:
Must be the quality Amstrad construction!

I think the Amstrad thing is a bit of an urban myth in the making?

Amstrad are not a manufacturing company. They design and then market products, but they are made for them by someone else, usually abroad.

I believe that the Amstrad digiboxes are actually made for them by Samsung, so the chances that Amstrad are manufacturing for another manufacturer is nil.

[Automan]

Must be the quality Amstrad construction!

Richard,
It must be the Pace contruction...

I always found my old orginal Pace Digibox got pretty hot as well. Perhaps they have shares in UK power companieshttp://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Automan.

[This message has been edited by Automan (edited 09-09-2001).]

[Richardr]

You should try their cable boxes. The ntl (4000 series) one that I have is hot enough to cook on.

[Automan]

Richard,
It would seem that Pace have outsourced a lot of manufacturing see http://www.appliancezone.com/html/news/CE116.htm

Also I can't wait for these 20/30 new features to arrive for Sky+ http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif See http://www.appliancezone.com/html/news/CE183.htm

This link also seems to indicate a Pace / Amstrad http://209.67.253.180/enews/Issue/FreeIssues/2000/01242000/z0124pace32.asp as the Pace bossman used to work for Amstrad!

All good stuff

Automan.

[This message has been edited by Automan (edited 09-09-2001).]

[gmilward]

Help!!!

Does anyone know how to configure the OLD SKY remote to control the SKY+ box? Obviously it wont record etc but I have a TV-LINK and cant change the cannel with the old remote. PLease help someone!!!

Otherwise, it is SUPERB!!!!! highly recommended!!!!

------------------
GM

[Reeves29]

Don't think anyone has found a way yet (if there is 1) to change the i.r codes on the old sky remote.

Automan, have you had any failed recordings yet on sky+? Had a few now, had it big time in the ear tonight after 'down to earth' failed to record. Haven't come up with any reason or pattern to it yet. Red light was on for the whole 1hrs 4mins.

[gmilward]

If thats the case its BAD news!!! I have a keypad as well!!! GO DAMMIT!!!!

------------------
GM

[Reeves29]

The open keypad can be reprogrammed for sky+, the sky engineer who installed your system should have done it. Not sure how its done myself (press some keys in order), think Automan posted the code earlier in this thread, or try http://forum.digitalspy.co.uk/board/

[Automan]

gmilward,
Open keypad can be reprogrammed for Sky+. However existing Sky remotes only work a bit (tv guide , box office keys but not numeric)

New Sky+ remotes can be ordered for £35.00 or of course open keypads for under £20.00

See http://www.stormpages.com/morlocks/samples/samples.htm (near bottom) for info to re-program open keypad.

No major recording errors yet and it's always recorded when the red lights on - so far!

I was supposed to get a call today to confirm when an engineer could come out to check my missing sound (which now works). No call.

Also my box gets hot, a fellow Sky+ user on digitalspy says his fan runs all the time. I never seen my fan in action.

The top of my box is about 90f and I have now put my probe in the back hole where the fan is. At that location it's 98.1f so heaven knows how hot it is inside!

I don't suppose it's worth ringing Sky. After all when I told them I had no sound on two channels they told me to check my scart plugs! So what chance have I asking about a cooling fan?

Automan.

[GarySargent]

It would probably be worthwhile someone with Sky+ sending a Pronto file to either Ted or myself if you want TiVo to control your Sky+ box sometime soon.

Suggest you post back here if you do this so others know not to bother.

I presume they will need digits 0 to 9 and the enter key.


------------------
Find out everything TiVo: http://www.tivoportal.co.uk
Have your say and vote for the features you want on your UK TiVo: http://www.tivosuggestions.co.uk
Got a bug? http://www.tivobugs.co.uk

[Automan]

Automan, have you had any failed recordings yet on sky+? Had a few now, had it big time in the ear tonight after 'down to earth' failed to record. Haven't come up with any reason or pattern to it yet. Red light was on for the whole 1hrs 4mins.

Reeves29, on the Sky+ Planner page, is the event that failed listed. If so, if you press your i (information) key it should give the recordings status. Does it indicate anything or has the item gone from the list?

Automan.

[Reeves29]

They are still on the planner as 'failed', when i press 'i' says 'unknown error'.

[ChrisA]

This one is for Automan:

Well SKY did not get back to me re SKY+ install. I contacted them again, lady put the phone down on me. Yes I was being sarcastic at the time! Could not help it, I am normally quite reserved but this has truely got me going. So I wrote a strong but acurate email to SKY regarding this situation. I don't expect anything to come of it after all they can't install till 2002 so why should they reply.http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

[Reeves29]

Originally posted by GarySargent:
It would probably be worthwhile someone with Sky+ sending a Pronto file to either Ted or myself if you want TiVo to control your Sky+ box sometime soon


I would be willing to lend someone at Tivo HQ my sky+ remote (don't have a pronto) if i get it back in the condition i sent it. I use a learning remote so the loss of the sky+ remote wouldn't be a problem for a couple of weeks.

[ChrisA]

Well I am feeling much better now, just visited the SKY newsgroups to find many others having a complete disaster with the SKY+ install. Oh well thank god for TiVo.

[Automan]

I have a Pronto and will attempt tonite to teach it Sky+ codes ready to be TiVoed.

Automan.

[Automan]

Gary,
I have just emailed you the Pronto codes for Sky+
If you could relay this to Ted it would be cool.

While doing this by the way, my Sky+ box was playing back tonights second Simpson epsisode and recording Adromeda.

Anyway, picture seize up, box making a repetivive hard disc noise. I pressed the Sky key which brought up the menu but no more.

Only option. pull the plug out!

It starts recording Adrmonda again from that point so 1st 75% of episode gone! Just as well on next sunday am I think.

Still no cooling fan... does anyones cooling fan run?

Many Thanks again Gary.

Automan.

[chimaera]

Originally posted by Automan:
I have a Pronto and will attempt tonite to teach it Sky+ codes ready to be TiVoed.

Hey Automan, is there anything that you haven't got? Are you in competion with Gary or something http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by chimaera (edited 09-10-2001).]

[GarySargent]

I nearly bought the new colour Pronto a few weeks back but £750 was far too expensive for a remote - even by my standards http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Looks the dogs b******s though! http://www.remotecentral.com/prontopro/index.html

<A HREF="http://www.remotecentral.com/prontopro/photo01.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.remotecentral.com/prontopro/photo01a.jpg</A>

Anyway I've received the Pronto file from Automan now and passed it on to TiVo. Thanks.


------------------
Find out everything TiVo: http://www.tivoportal.co.uk
Have your say and vote for the features you want on your UK TiVo: http://www.tivosuggestions.co.uk
Got a bug? http://www.tivobugs.co.uk

[This message has been edited by GarySargent (edited 09-10-2001).]

[Automan]

Hey Automan, is there anything that you haven't got?

Two things...

1. Money (I'm sort of in the RED)
2. Sense - I should know by now that new gadgets seldom work

Automan.

[chimaera]

Good answer!

[Norm]

Originally posted by GarySargent:
I nearly bought the new colour Pronto a few weeks back but £750 was far too expensive for a remote - even by my standards http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

I'm not trying to persuade you, Gary, but if any one is interested Mike Huggins is selling the Pronto Pro for £695 www.letsautomate.com (http://www.letsautomate.com)

By the way, his website also says that for the 1st 250 orders he's including free the RF base (although I'm not entirely sure what that is) which he normally will charge £120 for.

------------------
Regards

Norman

[This message has been edited by Norm (edited 09-10-2001).]

[GarySargent]

Get away from me satan http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif


------------------
Find out everything TiVo: http://www.tivoportal.co.uk
Have your say and vote for the features you want on your UK TiVo: http://www.tivosuggestions.co.uk
Got a bug? http://www.tivobugs.co.uk

[Automan]

Pace now have info on Sky+ at their website http://www.pace.co.uk/paceproducts/product.asp?section=SA&product=166 - Enjoy...

Automan.

[GarySargent]

I notice one of the Operating Systems listed that it runs on it WindowsCE - I hope the haven't.... http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif


------------------
Find out everything TiVo: http://www.tivoportal.co.uk
Have your say and vote for the features you want on your UK TiVo: http://www.tivosuggestions.co.uk
Got a bug? http://www.tivobugs.co.uk

[ChrisA]

Yes I am satan too. I have one on order according to my confirmation order email they have 20 units coming in on the 8th September with 50 more at the end of the month. I will let you know what it is like! Like Gary and Automan I to am now short of money. By the way they mentioned that they have had over 400 enquiries about the unit. Though how many orders this will result in is any bodies guess.

[mrtickle]

Hopefully it will result in very few orders. Unlike TiVo's charge, Sky's 10 quid/month has no justification; the EPG is funded by the broadcasters and there are no telephone costs. Sky's business plan for the next few years relies on increasing the average spend per customer.

[Matthew Finlayson]

I think he was referring to the colour Pronto, rather than the Sky+.

The offer of a free RF base was just too much for me and I've ordered one now as well.

[TivoUK]

Automan.
My ADSL and Sky + install yesterday went fine, all worked straight away. However, I did not get that much time with either of them before I had to come back to work. I hate being the local guy to call when you have PC problems, and a neighbour was having problems installing Win98.

Anyway....

I did not get to really put the + box through its paces, setup some recordings while I am away for the rest of the week, but it appeared to be fine.

Have read that the box gets a new s\ware update from 1.17 to 1.20 after it is activated. Did that happen to you??

[Automan]

Have read that the box gets a new s/ware update from 1.17 to 1.20 after it is activated. Did that happen to you?

Yes, my box is on 1.20c which installs / reboots your box with no warning! I think the remote control led was on while it did this, not 100% sure.

As for the box, It's not 100% It recorded things okay all day yesterday but did not record Voyager at 18:00 (just said to be recorded even at 18:30).

It then did not record The Simpsons at 19:00 so I just cycled the mains power.
Once it started to boot, it started to record the simpsons.

With this and the loss of audio on some movie channels I'm getting a new box which should be with me in under 2 days.

I must admit I'm not sure a new box will help but I shall try (most likely **** software).

Boxes also get VERY HOT compared with a TiVo and I understand the fan does not cut in till it's REALLY VERY HOT.

Last night however, Sky did correctly update all the changes in the EPG to cope with the program changes on both BBC, CHN4 & 5 Channels. Plus the change of movie on Sky Cinema 2 at 21:00.
However, They got the start time of Alien in error. EPG had 23:10 when it started at 23:20 so the end may be missing?

Also a program that was to record on Brighton Police was automatically removed form the job queue.

Automan.

[This message has been edited by Automan (edited 09-12-2001).]

[Automan]

Extra Info...
I emailed Pace with a couple of questions and the answer may be of interest...

1. When should the cooling fan operate?
The fan operates when the internal box temperature exceeds 48 degrees C (118f).

2. The S-VHS does not seems to widescreen switch my Sony TV - Does the S-VHS output include widescreen switching data?
There is no widescreen switching on the S-Video output at present, this may change in the future.

3. My unit runs with a case temperature of 92f in a 68f ambient and I was wondering if this is okay.
The box is specified to operate up to 40 degrees C.

Automan.

[doubledrat]

£695 for an effing remote control! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/eek.gif You must be joking. How can anyone justify that?

[GaryM]

My thoughts exactly.

Perhaps it doubles as a 25th century tricorder as well http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

I can only think that you guys cannot be married.....if I spent £700 on a remote I would be living on the street within minutes.
What's your secret http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/confused.gif

[Richardr]

Originally posted by Automan:
Extra Info...
I emailed Pace with a couple of questions and the answer may be of interest...

The fan operates when the internal box temperature exceeds 48 degrees C (118f).

The box is specified to operate up to 40 degrees C.


Why does the fan not come in at 40 degrees?

[Automan]

Why does the fan not come in at 40 degrees?

I assume even at a 40c ambient that it does not need cooling till it's internal guts get up to 48c

Does anyone know at what temperature TiVo's fan cut in?

Automan.

[GarySargent]

TiVo has different fan speeds depending on the temperature.

Dec 28 05:20:36 (none) fancontrol[56]: The current board temperature is 41
Dec 28 05:20:36 (none) fancontrol[56]: Setting the fan speed to 9
Dec 28 20:57:28 (none) fancontrol[56]: The current board temperature is 47
Dec 28 20:57:28 (none) fancontrol[56]: Setting the fan speed to 15
Feb 15 09:43:22 (none) fancontrol[56]: The current board temperature is 42
Feb 15 09:43:22 (none) fancontrol[56]: Setting the fan speed to 10
Feb 15 09:53:22 (none) fancontrol[56]: The current board temperature is 38
Feb 15 09:53:22 (none) fancontrol[56]: Setting the fan speed to 0
Feb 15 19:39:06 (none) fancontrol[56]: The current board temperature is 43
Feb 15 19:39:06 (none) fancontrol[56]: Setting the fan speed to 11


------------------
Find out everything TiVo: http://www.tivoportal.co.uk
Have your say and vote for the features you want on your UK TiVo: http://www.tivosuggestions.co.uk
Got a bug? http://www.tivobugs.co.uk

[Automan]

Only one response, Cool!

Automan.

[This message has been edited by Automan (edited 09-12-2001).]

[doubledrat]

Originally posted by GaryM:
My thoughts exactly.
I can only think that you guys cannot be married.....if I spent £700 on a remote I would be living on the street within minutes.
What's your secret http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/confused.gif

Hehe. I must admit when I saw Gary's kit I thought "that guy can't be married http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif" I didn't want to say though http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Not that I'm henpecked.

yes? coming dear


gotta go

[This message has been edited by doubledrat (edited 09-13-2001).]

[GarySargent]

I'm far too young to get married yet! I'm trying to buy every gadget before I get married (for obvious reasons http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif)


------------------
Find out everything TiVo: http://www.tivoportal.co.uk
Have your say and vote for the features you want on your UK TiVo: http://www.tivosuggestions.co.uk
Got a bug? http://www.tivobugs.co.uk

[ChrisA]

Oh dear the secrets out. I am single also, but unlike Gary I am to OLD to get married. And as I am going bald etc I won't have to worry about it either!! Bring on the gadgets.
Going to collect the SKY+ box from Curry's today, with an independant installer putting it in on Monday hopefully...
So Pronto 1MB, Pronto colour, TiVo with 160GB discs, SKY+ etc etc. Nearly as bad as Gary and Automan.

[doubledrat]

Originally posted by ChrisA:
So Pronto 1MB, Pronto colour, TiVo with 160GB discs, SKY+ etc etc. Nearly as bad as Gary and Automan.

wanna sell your pronto 1mb when you get your colour? http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif

Bob

[richard plumb]

it surprised me how wife-friendly the mono pronto was. Mainly because she could then use the TV properly! The addition of channel logos to prevent having to remember 30 different channel numbers helped too.

But that was only £165 at the time. I don't think I'd risk £700 - at least not just yet.

[ChrisA]

Actually I was planning on using it upstairs to control the exisiting Panasonic digibox with the TiVo and Video and TV's, and use the newone downstairs with all the other stuff. I might just be persuaded to let it go if I received a good enough offer. It is a Marantz actually that comes with a base unit. As an aside I have just had an email from SKY regarding the failed install of my SKY+. They said they were sorry, and have confirmed that my credit card has been credited with the money! I did not think I would get any feedback at all, still it does not change the problem SKY has it just lets them know they have one. But they already new that anyway.

[doubledrat]

I found it was quite easy to "sell" the concept of a pronto -

me: "Want me to get rid of these 6 remotes for 1?"
missus: "hooray"

(havn't told her how much the pronto is yet though http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif)

Bob

[Speedbird]

Just had SKY+ for a few days now and starting to wonder if I am going off my head. Help please....

The box is putting out a high pitched, but quiet, tone which is driving us all crazy. When you first walk into the room you dont notice it, but after a while you do and you continue to hear it. When the unit records you can also clearly hear the disk disk drive clunking away.. Has anyone else noticed this noise or is it just the unit I have, or are we all paranoid??

Thanks...

[Automan]

Has anyone else noticed this noise or is it just the unit I have, or are we all paranoid??

My Sky+ box makes slightly less noise than my twin disc TiVo.

Sky+'s only moving part is it's hard disc (unless it get's very hot when the fan will cut in).

If you unplug your Sky+ from the mains does the noise whines down (like a jet engine stopping) and does the opposite when you plug it in, I suspect that you have a noisy hard disc.

Automan.

[Automan]

Tonight with my trusty Sky+ box I pressed Select to playback a recording and it rebooted itself!
When I pressed Sky key (after the screen had flashed a few times) it said searching for listings and it was on chn 998.

No s/w update so I suppose it had a nervous breakdown.

I have also noted that against "The Simpsons" in the Sky+ Planner you don't get the copy to tape option.
I guess they have Macrovision on them?

Automan.

[GarySargent]

Originally posted by Automan:
I have also noted that against "The Simpsons" in the Sky+ Planner you don't get the copy to tape option.
I guess they have Macrovision on them?

I doubt it - how would people with just a VCR record them?


------------------
Find out everything TiVo: http://www.tivoportal.co.uk
Have your say and vote for the features you want on your UK TiVo: http://www.tivosuggestions.co.uk
Got a bug? http://www.tivobugs.co.uk

[Automan]

A short review of Sky+ can be found at http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/displayarticle.php?id=3765 and may be of interest....

P.S. The Stargate's at 06:00am have no series link!

Perhaps this is one of the features they will add when the series ends!

New Colour Marantz Pronto Remote
If you have just ordered the Philips module you may wish to see what you will missing at http://www.remotecentral.com/wn010904.htm

Automan.

[This message has been edited by Automan (edited 09-16-2001).]

[Norm]

Another question about Sky+.

If you record a Sky film, does it record the whole of the time slot including what can be half an hour of rubbish until the next film (like TiVo) or does it have the sense to know how long the the film should be and record only that plus padding?

Could be quite significant with the total recording time being only about 20 hours. (How easy it is to forget that my TiVo used to have a limit of 12 hours at best quality!)

------------------
Regards

Norman

[ALanJay]

Originally posted by Automan:
A short review of Sky+ can be found at http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/displayarticle.php?id=3765 and may be of interest....

P.S. The Stargate's at 06:00am have no series link!

[B]Perhaps this is one of the features they will add when the series ends!


Just goes to show I should have checked the example I discussed with the Product manager, oh well that at least is the thory of how it should work when they get it all sorted out. There were comments that the BBC were only doing series links on prime time - it sounds like SKY are doing the same. This is a shame as these are the things that make it all work - on the other hand the average user probably won't care.

The fundamental think about SKY+ is that it seems to be aimed at "the man in the street" no the person wanting cutting edge technology.

For those of us that want that cutting edge technology SKY+ probable isn't the panacea we would like - but it might grow to be loved as a simple tool.

As I see it we have - Tivo a very clever piece of software let down by a dodgey programme guide or SKY+ a simple to use PVR with none of the "clever bits".

:-)

I still think SKY will sell a lot of SKY+ boxes and it will be very interesting to see if they deliver more functionality over the next few months which they have promissed.

[mrtickle]

Indeed, like anything to do with Sky it's always interesting to see if they keep their promises. Often they do not.

[Automan]

Norm,
Just played back Double Jepardy from last night and it records the whole 2hrs 2min time slot.

Infact, the last episode of Father Ted to be shown last night said it would need 23% of the 40gig disc to record!
This is because the epg thought it was on from 02:30 ish to 07:00 (no closedows event in epg).

AlanJay,
I will be interested to see if Sky+ PP can have different series links for 1st run's and another for re-runs

e.g. StarGate SG1 & The Simpson's

It would also be cool if it copped better with program clashes....

My unit was set to record "The Fugitive" on E4 @ 19:00
A Series link for "The Simpsons" then put an entry to record "The Simpsons" episode @ 19:00 (but not the for the episode @ 18:30).

So what do you think would happen?
It recorded "The Simpson's" at 19:00 and the last half of "The Fugitive"!
It then indicated that if failed to record "The Simpsons" @ 19:30 which cancels the series link so no more episodes will be recorded.

Not Very Good!

Now to watch "Fatal Beauty" on BBC1 which TiVo thought started at 22:55 to 00:35

Sky+ indicated a start time of 23:05 and of course started recording at 23:03 and recorded for 103minutes

Which one will catch ALL the action?

Automan.


[This message has been edited by Automan (edited 09-16-2001).]

[HouseOfHaggis]

Hello,

I just made a nice big post about me having Sky+ and some nice in-depth comments about various things in comparison to the TiVo but I put my password in wrong and when I pressed back my post was gone.

So now I can't be bothered.

In short, my conclusion is that the Sky+ has a superior design quality (in terms of software) for the functions that it supports (ie. they work better) whereas TiVo has a superior implementation quality (ie. it doesn't crash every once in a while for no apparent reason).

Overall I can't say which is more reliable yet because I have only had Sky+ a couple of days. Only time will tell ...

Ross.

[GarySargent]

I hope you Sky+ owners are going to sign up for V2.5.5 beta when it arrives. The interface should be much slicker and it will be interesting to see how the Sky+ vs TiVo comparison changes.


------------------
Find out everything TiVo: http://www.tivoportal.co.uk
Have your say and vote for the features you want on your UK TiVo: http://www.tivosuggestions.co.uk
Got a bug? http://www.tivobugs.co.uk

[Automan]

I hope you Sky+ owners are going to sign up for V2.5.5 beta when it arrives. The interface should be much slicker and it will be interesting to see how the Sky+ vs TiVo comparison changes.

Yes Please!

And don't forget that Sky+ will have an extra 30/40 wonderful features before Xmas to compare it with.

Also I would not mind testing the new TiVo box out before it's launch later this year (should such a product exist?).

Automan.

[This message has been edited by Automan (edited 09-16-2001).]

[GarySargent]

I think any new box is pure speculation - there is no evidence to support this. Any new box will also (almost 100% likely) be the same hardware - with possibly a different size hard disc. This is the case in the US.

Hopefully if there is a new box they will wait until V2.5.5 is released to ship it thus getting fresh reviews in magazines.


------------------
Find out everything TiVo: http://www.tivoportal.co.uk
Have your say and vote for the features you want on your UK TiVo: http://www.tivosuggestions.co.uk
Got a bug? http://www.tivobugs.co.uk

[ozsat]

Wandering thru the TiVo listings, I found at midnight on Friday 21/Saturday 22 September on MTV2 - is an hour of comedy videos.

As TiVo is already busy at this time I decided to find the entry on Sky+ and record it there - but Sky+ will not accept the (R) for this programme, but will on others around it and at the same time.

You can set a reminder but the (R) is still not accepted to amend this.

Anyone else seen this?

<FONT COLOR="Red">Since my original posting - I have found that there is no synopsis for this programme. Perhaps Sky+ will not record such programmes?</FONT c>

[This message has been edited by ozsat (edited 09-16-2001).]

[Automan]

ozsat,
Looks like another Sky+ bug! - Well spotted.

My unit also won't record "laugh track: 20 years of comedy"

I assume the system permits the gods on Mount Sky to prevent the recording of some programs (however, the record button is availble to press but nothing happens).

You could always ring those nice folks at Sky and spend 30 minutes trying to get them to understand.

And you can always be sure that "no one else has reported it"

This must be a similar glitch that effect "The Simpsons" where you don't get the copy to tape option.

Automan.

[ozsat]

The "programmes start at...." all have no synopsis and also don't record!

[ozsat]

Sky TS say they have had a couple of won't allow (R) to be used which they have put down to the programme name being too long.

This programme has 31 chars - I can set one OK with 36.

I have also asked them to explain where 'autotune' has gone as they insist it is still available.

[pr1uk]

reading the newsgroups people with Sky+ do seem to be having quite a few problems with recording ect

i am allowed to say good hehe
see it is not just TiVo that as teething problems


Peter

[ALanJay]

Originally posted by Automan:
AlanJay,
I will be interested to see if Sky+ PP can have different series links for 1st run's and another for re-runs

e.g. StarGate SG1 & The Simpson's

It would also be cool if it copped better with program clashes....


Hi,

Fisrtly this is EXACTLY the question I asked and was told that it is possible - BUT requires the EPG guide data to be correct. Obviously SKY need to do some work themselves along with persuading the other channels to sort things out.

The recording system is set from what is in the EPG data (not the NOW and NEXT banner data) and the settings on recording are an extra minute beginning and end - if there is a clash at the end the new programme will miss the FIRST minute of the next programme.

This method was decided after extensive market research - the wife of a team member wasn't too happy at missing the cliff hanging end of an episode of ER.

(PS I havn't tested this)

[Automan write:
I assume the system permits the gods on Mount Sky to prevent the recording of some programs (however, the record button is availble to press but nothing happens).]

The impression I get is that it uses the EPG data and timings so even though there is NOW and NEXT data if it isn't included in the EPG itself it won't work. This is the reason that RADIO stations can't be recorded - ther eis nothing in the EPG even though all the data is transmitted in the NOW/NEXT stream in the radio transmission.


Overall it doesn't surprise me that there are bugs - SKY+ has been tested by people but that is nothing like the hammering it will get with people like us rumaging around the insides :-)

As an aside I mentioned to the Product Manager (who used to have a Tivo - and rather missed the idea of 2.5.5) about the fact that my Tivo had rather more that the default 40Gb and he said that SKY didn't have anything against this type of thing and over time disk sizes would enevitably increase but that he felt that there would be a point where the copyright holders would complain that they were allowing long term digital archiving of programme material which is a big no no to the industry.

I wonder what sort of file system it uses :-)

[Automan wrote:
And don't forget that Sky+ will have an extra 30/40 wonderful features before Xmas to compare it with.]

I think that is probably wishful thinking - if they live up to their pitch then there will be some more functions before the end of the year but I doubt that many (uless they count them like channels) but we can live in hope.

[Automan]

Alan,
Thanks for all the info... Cool.

On the PP front my box now seems to have two series links for "The Simpson's" - one entry in for tonites rerun at 19:00 and another entry for next Sunday's 18:00 slot so I assume it can tell them apart (but no real indication to the users that one's re-runs and the others new episodes).

Back on the sat 8th Sky told me I could have a new box because of my loss of audio on some movie channels 310 & 312 and it's variuos other quirks.

They said I would get a call on Sunday 9th from the service company as it's done by another company.

They telephoned Wednesday and said they would order a box which takes 24hrs and they would then call to install (total 48hr job).

Last night playback of recordings were going jerky / getting stuck (like poor sat reception) which is begining to p*ss me off (sometimes it's fine for days, maybe heat?).

Thus I telephoned the Applicance Service company this morning and they now say they have no Sky+ boxes and no date when they are expected to turn up!

I assume the box failure rate is greater than anticipated.

Plus I suspect the problems are software / poor hardware design so swapping boxes most likely won't help.

Automan.

[Osy]

Having had SkyPlus for nearly two weeks, and not finding any pictures of the insides, I decided to lift the lid on mine. I also experimented with the drive a little.
Pictures and other info at:
http://www.uk.research.att.com/~pao

Let me know what you think!

Paul 'Osy' Osborn

[GarySargent]

Most cool - but looks like I might loose that £10 bet I had with someone http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif

Same Quantum drives as UK TiVo's.

------------------
Find out everything TiVo: http://www.tivoportal.co.uk
Have your say and vote for the features you want on your UK TiVo: http://www.tivosuggestions.co.uk
Got a bug? http://www.tivobugs.co.uk

[This message has been edited by GarySargent (edited 09-17-2001).]

[Automan]

Paul 'Osy' Osborn,
Cool pictures and it sounds like a Sky+ boxes disc can be replaced with a new larger one with minimal no effort.

I also wonder how it copes with the 4Gb file limit of FAT32 or if it breaks the recording up into several 4Gb chunks.

I'm surprised the hd is at the front left. The hottest spot seems to be rear right. I assume this is the crap pace psu giving off mega heat. Just think if each box wasted 10watts less power x 5 million boxes we could save the world!

Paul,
I assume your box has been working okay?

Automan.

[This message has been edited by Automan (edited 09-17-2001).]

[Osy]

Automan,

I have my box on the open top shelf of a hi-fi rack (black, with black components, and a silver sky box http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif ). My fan seems to never operate, and the only hotspot I found, was the drive, which was almost too hot to hold. But I think that's pretty typical for drives these days.
The only spare drive I had was a Fujitsu 40Gb, I hope to try 100Gb soon to find out what happens.

My SkyPlus box is still working fine, with its original drive. Too many recordings on it just now to switch permenantly just now.

Paul 'Osy' Osborn

[Yorkshirelad6]

Originally posted by Osy:

My SkyPlus box is still working fine, with its original drive. Too many recordings on it just now to switch permenantly just now.


Couldn't you just drop the Sky+ drive and your larger drive into a PC and use something like Norton Ghost to transfer it across? - this way you'd keep everything already recorded, and have more space to record more - at least in theory :-)

YorkshireLad6

[Automan]

Paul,
My box is under my TV because it's silver! It has got long enough sat cables to put with my hi-fi but like your kit it's all black!

However, I've ordered a 240v fan from maplins to mount at the back of my tv cabinet and assuming it's quiet I may try this.

On the disc front I was also wondering if the box worries about file fragmentation (along with the 4gb file limit of fat32).

You may also be in the hall of records with the first 50hr broadcast quality Sky+ Box!

Automan.

[Osy]

YorkshireLad6,

I've not heard of Ghost, will look into it. Sky+ seems extremely forgiving in changing disks, but copying data between them may be a tricky. The large file containing the recorded program seems to be unreadable (at least under Win2k). I suspect it may have some deliberate file system bugs to make this harder. I'll let Linux take a look and see what it makes of it.

Automan,

It will certainly be interesting to try increasing the disk. I expect it will either work perfectly, or be hard coded in FLASH to be 40Gb. Unlike Tivo, quoting how many hours it gives is going to be a problem. Large discs could take a long time to fill, and its all VBR anyway. Maybe for Sky+ we should stick to drive sizes.

[Yorkshirelad6]

Originally posted by Osy:
YorkshireLad6,

I've not heard of Ghost, will look into it.

Norton Ghost makes one-to-one disk images and can be used to replicate systems - useful because copied system disks are bootable as before. If you copy from source to a larger disk or partition it simply leaves more space on the end

YorkshireLad6

[bignoise]

Originally posted by ozsat:
The "programmes start at...." all have no synopsis and also don't record!

Of course it doesn't, it's not a programme! (It's only on "now" when the channel is off the air, so there'd be nothing to record anyway.)

[ALanJay]

If the file system is FAT32; then you need to create a new disk with a single partition on the whole disk and copy the files across. A copy with a disk copyier won't increase the partition.

(I think)

It certainly makes from some interesting excercises....

[Osy]

Originally posted by ALanJay:
If the file system is FAT32; then you need to create a new disk with a single partition on the whole disk and copy the files across. A copy with a disk copyier won't increase the partition.



I agree. Also, since I haven't managed to read the large video files I cannot copy them. However if we can solve that, then transferring recordings may be possible. I feel more feasible would be to move future recordings, since those seem to be stored in files that are easily accessed.
Of course if the files contain any low level sectors references to other files then we would have a problem (doesn't look likely).

Paul

[ozsat]

Originally posted by bignoise:
Of course it doesn't, it's not a programme! (It's only on "now" when the channel is off the air, so there'd be nothing to record anyway.)

That's my point - it looks as if this could be the trigger to stop it recording!

[Automan]

20hrs / 40hrs / 50hrs - Beat This!

http://members.aol.com/ianpaulmitchell/hicap.jpg

Of course you can't!

Three quarters of the way through Andromeda my box had another nervous breakdown and decided no signal...

I think maybe my second tuner is sick?

Automan.

[earthling]

Originally posted by ChrisA:
This point was mentioned earlier but is CRITICAL to getting your SKY+ Box. If the dish is on the chimney & it is single brick ALL standard installers would have to drill a 20mm hole in the thing for health and saftey codes, or as in my case and many others get a trained hight's team with the correct equipment to perform the install.

Howdy brave Sky+ user. Can I ask for clarification on this. I currently have standard Sky (SkyMinus?) and have the dish on the chimney with the standard LNB and single cable running to the STB.

If I want Sky+ (which right now I don't - but maybe when it can record 2 channels at once) will I have to get the dish moved? If so, why? I don't quite understand. The dish is already fixed securely to the chimney, and if all they do is fit a new dual LNB, why is there a need for any drilling into the chimney?

Also, they didn't charge me extra for putting it on the chimney as the chimney is accessible through a skylight and sits on a flat part of the roof metres away from the edge or any danger.

Thanks in advance for the clarification.

------------------
Thanks in advance.

Chris

[Automan]

Chris,
A real Sky engineer won't work on a dish on a single brick chimney. He has to work on it to fit the new quad lnb and cable run. Some independant installation engineers may if you grease their palms.

However, if they can gain safe access I expect they will update your exisiting dish.

They will free of charge install a new dish in a less hazadous location (if you have a suitable wall with clear line of site to 28.2).

You can record two things at once using your TiVo & Sky+

Sky+ can only record one thing at a time (if your lucky!) but may be able to record two soon!

Automan.

[This message has been edited by Automan (edited 09-17-2001).]

[iankb]

Originally posted by ALanJay:
If the file system is FAT32; then you need to create a new disk with a single partition on the whole disk and copy the files across. A copy with a disk copyier won't increase the partition.


PartitionMagic from PowerQuest allows you to change the size of your partitions. They also have a product called DriveCopy which will copy partitions. The second product may allow you to copy to partitions of different sizes - the marketing blurb isn't obvious.

Ian.

[Automan]

News at Last - A New Sky+ Box will be delivered this Thursday! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

All I have to do now is hope it fixes all / most of the problems!

P.S.
My box at the moment has four minidiscs under it (to increase air flow) and a 12" table fan blowing on it.
It's external cabinet is now at room temperature.

Automan.

[Yorkshirelad6]

Originally posted by ALanJay:
If the file system is FAT32; then you need to create a new disk with a single partition on the whole disk and copy the files across. A copy with a disk copyier won't increase the partition.


Norton Ghost allows Disk-Disk, Partition-partition, Disk-Partition and Partition-Disk copies, on a bit for bit basis. Files themsleves are not read, only data, so there is no concern for format, hidden files, etc., etc. As long as there is less data in source as in the destination it intelligently pads out free space to the size of the destination.

YorkshireLad6

[Osy]

YorkshireLad6,

Sound like you idea might work for transfering the files to a new disk, but at the moment I'm concentrating on trying to fit a larger disk. I tried a 100Gb disk last night. Sky+ formatted it to full size, and put on its config files. Recording seemed to work, but access to Sky+ Planner was extremely slow, and the one time I tried to play back a recording, it reset. I tried the system reset menu option, and after 10 minutes that had not completed, so it looks like the disk may have just been too big.
I've added my experiences to my site.

Paul Osborn http://www.uk.research.att.com/~pao

[Yorkshirelad6]

Originally posted by Osy:

Sound like you idea might work for transfering the files to a new disk, but at the moment I'm concentrating on trying to fit a larger disk.

Could you not simply:

1. Open a PC
2. Add the disk from the Sky+ and the new 100Gb disk to the PC (assumes at least 2 IDE interfaces and power connectors free, and that disks are correctly master/slave configured - maybe even remove CD temporarilly to facilitate this)
3. Copy Sky+ disk contents to new larger disk (e.g. using Ghost)
4. Reinstall larger disk into Sky+

???

[Automan]

Paul,
My box has twice reset itself when pressing select to view a recording (the last press of select before playback starts) and that's with it's standard disc!.

Also, three times all the menu's have started to go slow - only solution cycle power.

Perhaps your box is just getting old and grumpy?

Automan.

[BrianHughes]

Originally posted by iankb:
PartitionMagic from PowerQuest allows you to change the size of your partitions. They also have a product called DriveCopy which will copy partitions. The second product may allow you to copy to partitions of different sizes - the marketing blurb isn't obvious.

Ian.

Drive copy allows you to copy from one disk to another while resizing the partition. I have used it to do simple hard disk upgrades in the past.

[Osy]

Originally posted by Yorkshirelad6:
Could you not simply:

1. Open a PC
2. Add the disk from the Sky+ and the new 100Gb disk to the PC (assumes at least 2 IDE interfaces and power connectors free, and that disks are correctly master/slave configured - maybe even remove CD temporarilly to facilitate this)
3. Copy Sky+ disk contents to new larger disk (e.g. using Ghost)
4. Reinstall larger disk into Sky+

???

This is not where the problem with a disk upgrade seems to lie. If you fit a blank disc into Sky+, it partitions it and sets up all the files it needs to operate. However, in my experience it seems to struggle to then use a 100Gb disk. Possibly some internal data structure cannot cope with such a large disk. If I can find one (or anyone else wants to try it), then I would like to see if a 50Gb drive works.
Your suggestion has merit once we want to copy existing recordings onto the larger disk, but I want to see it working first.

Paul Osborn
Inside SkyPlus: http://www.uk.research.att.com/~pao

[ChrisA]

Automan & Earthling!

SKY+ fitted at last!! As you all know my dish is on the Chimney however I had no problem finding an independant installer who would carry out the work. BUT be prepared to spend some more money. My install cost £110 and included the rejigging of my main phone number to allow for the existing Panasonic box to be located in the bedroom. Currently undertaking a mix and match of all the possible combinations of wiring. Ok onto a TiVo thing. My modified TiVo 160GB would record for exactly 20 mins and either freeze or reboot, Origonally the Panasonic box was sat ontop of the TiVo so the top of the TiVo was getting VERY hot with the drives being located below the Panasonic. I am having more luck now the TiVo is located above the SKY+ box as the top of the TiVo is much cooler. So this "HEAT" thing may be critical. I only hope that my SKY+ box does not overheat now.

[Yorkshirelad6]

Originally posted by Osy:
This is not where the problem with a disk upgrade seems to lie. If you fit a blank disc into Sky+, it partitions it and sets up all the files it needs to operate. However, in my experience it seems to struggle to then use a 100Gb disk. Possibly some internal data structure cannot cope with such a large disk. If I can find one (or anyone else wants to try it), then I would like to see if a 50Gb drive works.
Your suggestion has merit once we want to copy existing recordings onto the larger disk, but I want to see it working first.


I think one of us is not understanding the other! - my point is that if you can copy the existing, current structures and files to a new,larger disk (partition), then you can simply use that directly with enlarged storage space... No need for Sky+ to recreate anything. It just needs to take advantage of the enlarged space it finds... This assumes, of course, that it works out remaining capacity from remaining free space on the disk. Enlarged free space=additional capacity!

Cheers!

YorkshireLad6

[ALanJay]

Someone mentionded copying the files to a PC - one thing to remember that the MPEG data streams still have the SKY encryption system embedded so to replay you need a SKY box and card.

It certainly sounds from what OSY says that the disks are automatically utilised the only question is if there are issues that havn't been though about with larger disks that may mean things don't work as expected.

Certainly down the road it wouldn't be surprising if SKY offered machines with larger disks after all it won't be long before 40Gb drives become hard to find. :-)

YorkshireLad - the point that OSY was making is that the SKY+ box will work if you put a new drive in - it automatically configures everything from the embeeded OS.

The only reason to want to do a disk copy would be if you wanted to keep the current programmes.

[This message has been edited by ALanJay (edited 09-18-2001).]

[Yorkshirelad6]

Originally posted by ALanJay:
YorkshireLad - the point that OSY was making is that the SKY+ box will work if you put a new drive in - it automatically configures everything from the embeeded OS.


My understanding was that this was *almost* working, but not quite, maybe because something is lacking when it tries to "rebuild", hence the idea to simply copy a working system to a larger space....

Sorry to harp on :-)

YorkshireLad6

[ozsat]

Setting any BBC ONE programme to record this evening, is producing a blank channel name in the record list.

[TivoUK]

I am going away (all being well) for nearly 3 weeks this Sunday.

Had setup the Tivo / OnD box with loads of season passes for the BBC / ITV / Chn 4 / Chn 5 shows I wanted. Was going to go the Sky + box on Friday with the Sky 1 shows I wanted.

If the thing cannot be trusted to do those...groan...

[Osy]

Busy day today, so can't stop long. Have updated my site with news of my experiments with a 60Gb drive. Very nearly works.

------------------
Paul Osborn
Inside SkyPlus: http://www.uk.research.att.com/~pao

[This message has been edited by Osy (edited 09-19-2001).]

[TivoUK]

Cannot get to your site, tells me I am forbidden http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif

[Osy]

Now open to all http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif, sorry about that.

------------------
Paul Osborn
Inside SkyPlus: http://www.uk.research.att.com/~pao

[HouseOfHaggis]

Yes I am forbidden too.

Automan, how long did you have your Sky+ before it started playing up ??

I think maybe it was sick as I have had mine for 5 days now (no shortage of record and playback activity let me tell you) but there has not been a single glitch. I have not power cycled it at any point.

Even so, if it does need a power-cycle every week or so to keep it in check then there are no complaints from me. Just so long as it records the whole programme!

Keeping the Sky boxes cool is something which I have discovered with my last digibox. I would say the same applies for the new one. Don't forget that if it overheats just once it may become permanently damaged. Mine has full airflow on all sides except the bottom and a good half-metre on top for the heat to escape. Don't know if that helps any.

Ross.

[Automan]

Ross,
For the last 30hrs or so my Sky+ box has had a 12" fan blowing on it with four minidiscs under it's feet to increase airflow under the box.
This morning it's case temperature was 67.5f rather than 98f with no external cooling.
And I must admit it's been okay!
I have had it just sitting on a shelf under my TV with both front and rear covers removed (of the cabinet), 8" clearance above and about 3/4" at either side and in that enviroment it's played up.

I was just wondering if my unit is extra sensitive to heat or maybe it was designed very poorly?

And yes, I think it was okay when it was new for a few days (I think).

Automan.

[HouseOfHaggis]

Designed very poorly is probably unfortunately correct.

Wonder how long it will be until we see some new models ?
Yes, I will probably buy one.

I don't have a lot of money. I just spend it anyway http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Ross.

[Automan]

Just got home from work and my Sky+ still seems to be okay with it's 12" fan cooling unit.
I did just note that in the PP was a job with no title and an odd date that it said would require 9084% to record!
However, after starting my PC to do a screen capture, when I went back the entry had gonehttp://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif

Just watching "The Equaliser" which is the first program I've found on Granda Plus with a series linkhttp://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Automan.
P.S. When you order Sky+ order a fridge to put it in!

On the question of hard disc upgrades for Sky+ perhaps the disc format is a variant on fat32 (to break the 4Gb file barrier)?

[ozsat]

My Sky+ box only feels slightly warm - and not as warm as other stb's I have.

[Automan]

I spoke to soon!
It's playing up again, megapixalation on playbackhttp://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif

BAD SKY+

Automan.

[JamesM]

Originally posted by GarySargent:
Most cool - but looks like I might loose that £10 bet I had with someone http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif





I was wondering if you had remembered! Well, let's see if he manages to get the upgrade completed with no problems before we settle, shall we?

If we do agree that the bet is won, then I will donate the £10 to the NY disaster fund, and match it with the same amount.

[jont]

Hoping to get my Sky+ today from Heathrow Dixons (tax free !!) and will look to upgrade the disk sometime when it doesn't break ...

As part of my VAT free savings on the box I'll donate a tenner to the NY fund aswell...

[Osy]

Originally posted by JamesM:

If we do agree that the bet is won, then I will donate the £10 to the NY disaster fund, and match it with the same amount.

So much pressure! I'll do the best I can.
Using a separate power supply for the IBM 7200RPM 60Gb drive mentioned on my site revealed that it has to be spun up around 10 seconds before the Sky box is powered. In a PC it could take that long to get through the BIOS, but Sky seem to want the drive very early in the startup process. I'll have to try a 5000RPM drive.
I'm hopeful that the upgrade will work since my Fujitsu 40Gb drive works very well. Of course enlarging the drive messes up the free space percentage, but I hope you'll let me off thathttp://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

------------------
Paul Osborn
Inside SkyPlus: http://www.uk.research.att.com/~pao

[ChrisA]

Automan:

I have left it a couple of days before tempting fate. However my SKY+ box actually runs COOLER than my old Panasonic STB. The area around the power supply is warm but not so hot as to cause concern. It sounds as though you may well have a sick unit. Oh well now I have tempted fate and my box will just pack in.

[Automan]

Chrisa,
A new box has just been installed (I Think).
So far it's okay but reports a different model number.

Old Box Was Model 5.5.0
replacement Model 4.8.2
Old operating system 1.302K
replacement o/s 1.30410
Old EPG s/w SKY+ 1.20.c
replacement SKY+ 1.14.e

I assume the EPG s/w will update any minute and the box will reboot but I thought the other factors were constant?

If so, how many Sky+ models actually exist and what did they change?

Automan.

[Automan]

I just forced my new Sky+ box to do a software update (same method as old ones - apply power while holding backup button till all four main led's come on).

Anyway, the the update changes all the details to match my first box...

I ask myself, should a s/w update change a model number?

Automan.

[ozsat]

Originally posted by Automan:
I just forced my new Sky+ box to do a software update (same method as old ones - apply power while holding backup button till all four main led's come on).

Anyway, the the update changes all the details to match my first box...

I ask myself, should a s/w update change a model number?

Sky s/w updates usually change the model number.

You should not force s/w updates. Until a version is fully acceptable they usually transmit two versions.

The force update will often reload the previous version - in case the current version causes too many problems.

The best way to update you box is to switch it off after it has had several hours to download a version.

Don't keep doing this though as you may end up killing the box.

[Automan]

ozsat,
I only forced it because being well thought out, Sky+ will reboot to install an upgrade while it's recording (just like TiVo does).

Also it seems everyone who has a Sky+ is on EPG 1.20.c

Automan.

[TheBear]

An added benefit is that Sky+ decodes Dolby Digital surround sound:
http://www.dolby.com/press/wb.pr.0109.Sky.html

[HouseOfHaggis]

Well, having tempted fate also, it seems my Sky+ box finally decided to reset itself for no apparent reason.

Luckilly it wasn't recording anything at the time.

My EPG version is 1.20.c and was before so I don't know what it decided to reset for.

Automan, I think there must be something wrong with your LNB or something (have you got the new box yet ?). All the recordings I have made thus far have been fine.

[HouseOfHaggis]

Okay, ignore my question about the new box, somehow I managed to not see your post about the new box. Thought something seemed a bit odd!

[doubledrat]

Originally posted by TheBear:
An added benefit is that Sky+ decodes Dolby Digital surround sound:
http://www.dolby.com/press/wb.pr.0109.Sky.html

Just an aside, if you want to watch films in 5.1, instead of spending 2.99 on a $ky boxoffice film, rent the dvd from www.dvdoptions.com (http://www.dvdoptions.com) for 2.99 instead. That way you can watch it as many times as you like for a whole week, and it's got the extras, and it'll be in widescreen, and you'll get to see it months before it's available on $ky.

Bob

[ozsat]

Originally posted by Automan:

I only forced it because being well thought out, Sky+ will reboot to install an upgrade while it's recording (just like TiVo does).

Also it seems everyone who has a Sky+ is on EPG 1.20.c


The Sky re-boot is nothing more than a switch to stand-by.

The box will reboot itslef if it thinks it has a serious problem - EPG crash etc.

To this to upgrade:

Leave it alone all night.
In morning switch off at mains for 1 minute
Switch back on and wait two minutes.

[HouseOfHaggis]

Why do you have to write everything in bold ?!

It hurts my eyes !

[jont]

Originally posted by TheBear:
An added benefit is that Sky+ decodes Dolby Digital surround sound:
http://www.dolby.com/press/wb.pr.0109.Sky.html

[jont]

Oops - sorry hit the return key too soon !!!

Yes Sky+ will decode 5.1 - when there is any 5.1 transmitted material ... AFAIK at the moment you will get a digital stereo signal out of which will fall an analogue Dolby Pro-Logic soundtrack and no more ...

rgds

Jon

[mrtickle]

There seems to be some confusion about the term "decode" wrt dolby digital and Sky+. If the Sky+ box has a built-in DD decoder, that would mean it would also have 6 phono outputs to carry the decoded left, right, centre, rear left, rear right and subwoofer channels. Does it have these outputs?

My DVD player *does* have a built-in DD decoder, but I don't use it - I'd need 6 cables from DVD player to amp. I use the digital output instead and pass the signal to my amp to do the decoding there.

I think some of these journalists aren't checking their facts. I think that the Sky+ can pass the DD signal out of its optical port but I doubt very much that it has an alternative built-in DD decoder which would be used by very few people for very few peogrammes.

[Automan]

My new box has been making recordings / in operation now for over 30hrs - So far so good http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

It's even behaved so far in fast forward mode!

Re LNB problems, the feed from my old dish is still behind my TV and using it to feed my old Sky+ box (and swapping the feeds about) never helped the problem.

As ozsat says, I suspect the reboot is when the epg or etc gets it's "nickers in a twist". I assume the unit has a watchdog timer and if not reset it makes the box reboot?

It's early days for Sky+ Box #2....

Automan.

[Automan]

I could be taking a risk posting this but my new Sky+ box is still working okay http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

All recordings so far okay, no starts or ends chopped off and no sticking in fast forward.
Some audio clicks from Filmfour+1 (4 in six hours of playback)and 4 seconds of fastforward (all by itself) in Willow yesterday afternoon. Otherwise 100%

The unit is located in the exact enviroment as my old one.

Automan.

[stephen93]

As I see it Sky+ cannot record ITV yet, any ideas when Sky are adding ITV to their EPG & will we get ITV1,ITV2 & ITV Sport, anyone know?. thought about getting Sky+ but I'm happy with TiVo even though my digibox went into standby last week whilst I was on holiday so half my programs weren't recorded, it hadn't switch off for weeks thought they'd fixed the fault, obviously they haven't.

thanks Steve

[Richardr]

ITV will be on Sky by the end of the year, most likely date being canvassed at the moment is toward the end of November.

However, as they have not yet negotiated a price to use Sky's conditional access software, it is not yet clear in what form their appearance on Sky will be, and if you are waiting for ITV before buying Sky+, I suggest you wait for that to be determined. Some of the wild suggestions being suggested may not be recordable by Sky+.

[bignoise]

Originally posted by Richardr:
Some of the wild suggestions being suggested may not be recordable by Sky+.

It's extremely unlikely that ITV won't have a proper channel number and EPG data, though, in which case the Sky+ box should have no problems.

[mrtickle]

One of the so-called "solutions" being talked about is a Music Choice-style interface on 103, with the real channels *not* being accessible by EPG numbers. This means ITV wouldn't be recordable by TiVo, Sky+ or even just Sky with the Personal Planner - in the same way that Music Choice channels can no longer be recorded.

I hope they aren't stupid enough to do it, but they've done it before. This is apparently "progress" - along with "press red" icons wrecking all recordings on E4, Sky News and Sky One just because you weren't there at the time to press "backup" and remove the icon.

[Automan]

Doh!
Got home from work today, turned on TV & Amp. Normal Sky Picture as per normal...
Pressed "TV Guide" & 0 to get to the Sky+ Planner and it said

South Park Recorded
Andromeda Recorded
Project U.F.O. FAILED
Fanatasy Island FAILED
The Twilight Zone FAILED
The Fall Guy FAILED
Baywatch FAILED
Airwolf FAILED

Not quite what I wanted!
All the failed items indicated No Signal.
I them checked the system page and both LNB's indicated good readings.

I then tried to play one of the succesful recordings which was okay. I then went to change sat channel which resulted in the banner with a plain blue background. All menus okay but no picture!

Only option left - yes, unplug the power!
All seems okay again good old Sky - http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif

P.S.
I don't normally record this much a day http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Automan.

[ozsat]

What I find is a real pain is having to fast forward as x12 just to check if it has recorded the end of a programme.

x12 is actually very slow which means it takes 10 minutes to get to the end of a 2hour record.

TiVo has an instant skip to end!

[topbanana]

Actually that's a very good point .. if the Sky signal is stored raw, it's likely that an amount of unencrypting is necessary to find the relevant control elements in the MPEG stream and determine how far though the stream to skip between each frame. I wonder if this 12x represents a limitation on how quickly the stream can unencrypted by the Sky+ harware?

------------------
Top Banana

[This message has been edited by topbanana (edited 09-25-2001).]

[Automan]

More "Fast Forward" speeds are one of the promised features for a future upgrade.

A "Jump To End" would also be cool as mentioned to check you have the full program. Also slight rewind, after fast forward would also help (like TiVo does).

Today my box recorded everything okay. Perhaps bad epg data or the fact I used some of the interactive stuff upset it!

P.S. My local Dixon's to where I work now have a fully working Sky+ system on display plus the new Philips DVD recorder complete with media that gives you 60 min at max quality! (4.7Gb capacity)

No TiVo of course on display anywhere!

Automan.

[Automan]

Follow Up...
One of the things I set my Sky+ to record today was the movie Topedo Run on 104

However, this was cancelled and they put on the movie "The Bridal Path".

Only one thing, Sky+ recorded this and it's what it said it recorded.

I set it yesterday to record Topedo Run. I understood if the program was cancelled, more than 6 hours early or late that the event was cancelled?

Also, the movie title in the EPG was all in uppercase.

Interesting:
TiVo's EPG correctly indicated the change of movie and yet Sky's "Live" guide was still in error later last night when I booked the recording.

Automan.

[nitro]

A question for those of you with both Sky+ and TiVo.

How do you use your TiVo now you've got Sky+?

I know I'll buy Sky+ at some stage, but I'm considering a TiVo at the moment. (Sky+ seems too flaky yet) I want to ensure the TiVo is still a useful addition to the the entertainment set-up when Sky+ is added.

I Know the TiVo can now control a Sky+ unit but why would you go that route rather than through Sky+ directly?

Thanks in advance for your enlightenment.

[bignoise]

Originally posted by mrtickle:
One of the so-called "solutions" being talked about is a Music Choice-style interface on 103, with the real channels *not* being accessible by EPG numbers. This means ITV wouldn't be recordable by TiVo, Sky+ or even just Sky with the Personal Planner - in the same way that Music Choice channels can no longer be recorded.

No. No chance at all. This just will not happen.

For the moment, expect ITV to appear on a range of channel numbers (widely thought to be 831-847), in the EPG, and in the clear, plus some suitable barker channel on channel 103.

If/when ITV finally make a deal with Sky for proper conditional access and postcode based regionalisation, then expect your local region on channel 103.

Will TiVo or Sky+ have any difficulty with any of these arrangements? None whatsoever.

It's not something you have to worry about too much.

[Automan]

It's not something you have to worry about too much.

I can live without ITV - Have done for yearshttp://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

If they want to be tucked away in the 800's it's their funeral.

Or if you have to add channels it their cremation!

Automan.