Sky+ Discussion

[GarethR]

I am a big fan of tivo and it's technology and would love to see the underdog win in the UK

But TiVo isn't the underdog. With almost zero advertising there are as many TiVo users (possibly slightly more) as there are Sky+ users, and BOTH TiVo and Sky+ are more-or-less equally unknown to the majority of consumers in this country.

And in any event, you have to look at a larger user base than simply Sky Digital subscribers, whose numbers are still dwarfed by the people who don't have any form of multichannel TV. Obsess about Sky+ if you must, but TiVo has a massively bigger potential market.

By being critical of the current way Tivo is sold hopefully someone will do something before it's too late. If we all sit here and keep quiet then nothing will get done

I've been a member of this forum for almost a year now, and I don't recall a time when people *weren't* critical of the current way TiVo is sold.

I'm quite certain that TiVo UK and US are fully aware of our opinions about their marketing shortcomings. Constant negative postings containing prognostications of inevitable doom won't help anything, and they get tiresome very quickly.

[kmusgrave]

Originally posted by GarethR
Constant negative postings containing prognostications of inevitable doom won't help anything, and they get tiresome very quickly.

As do quotes from people who keep pretending there is nothing wrong, when clearly there is :D

[kmusgrave]

Originally posted by GarethR
Constant negative postings containing prognostications of inevitable doom won't help anything, and they get tiresome very quickly.

As do quotes from people who keep pretending there is nothing wrong, when clearly there is :D Lets face it, Tivo don't give a **** about the UK. (please prove me wrong on that one someone!)

[sanderton]

Originally posted by kmusgrave
As do quotes from people who keep pretending there is nothing wrong, when clearly there is :D Lets face it, Tivo don't give a **** about the UK. (please prove me wrong on that one someone!)

I agree, they have bigger fish to fry in the much larger US market. I just hope TiVo keeps a toehold here until such time as the PVR market worldwide is big enough for a Sony or Panasonic to launch a TiVo in the UK - maybe in two years time.

Meantime, I think Thomson TiVos will drift off sale completely after Xmas, but the subscription service will continue as is. then it will eb a amtter of battening down the hatches until the Japanes ride to the rescue in 2004.

All products of my fevered imagination, of course.

[kmusgrave]

Originally posted by sanderton
I just hope TiVo keeps a toehold here until such time as the PVR market worldwide is big enough for a Sony or Panasonic to launch a TiVo in the UK - maybe in two years time.


That really is the answer, IMHO - Thomson has not got a very good reputation (and are not that well known) in this country, so I think it would have sold a lot more if they had chosen a better-known manufacturer.

[Automan]

See http://forum.digitalspy.co.uk/board/t/45503/ds.html for details

Got to go to work :(

Automan.

[ozsat]

The live buffer is now present - with options of off, 5, 15, 30 and 60 minutes.

Technically, enabling this option (or even using the old live pause) means that you are using a dual recording system.

[Automan]

Seems Amstrad (who I understand make parts of the current Sky+ box for Pace) may market their own model soon...

See http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/displayarticle.php?id=10161 for info.

A freeview box also may be on the horizon!

I understand a couple of ex Pace Directors work for Amstrad and thus lost of work heads their way.

Pace no longer manufacture any STB's. All are made to their specs by others.

Automan.

[Milhouse]

It's curious how Amstrad are interested in manufacturing a Sky+ box, which would place them in direct competion with the existing box. If Amstrad were interested in getting into the PVR market, why not go with a TiVo box? This would give them access to a potentially larger market with no competition.

I don't know what the terms of the Sky+ licence are - perhaps they get a larger slice of the retail cost of the unit (all of it?) and there may be no requirement for a hardware subsidy. If Amstrad want to get into the PVR market but haven't managed to sign up a manufacturing deal with TiVo does this mean the TiVo terms are unfavourable or that TiVo aren't trying hard enough to find a manufacturer? Of course, TiVo may already have a manufacturer in the pipeline... heck, I can dream!!

:)

[Mark Hewitt]

Originally posted by GarethR
BOTH TiVo and Sky+ are more-or-less equally unknown to the majority of consumers in this country.


Then how come when I go into Dixons, Currys, Comet etc I see large displays with Sky+ boxes and posters and leaflets explaining what it does. And nobody in the shop has even heard of Tivo! :(

[Automan]

All paying Sky £10.00 a month!

65,000 is also about twice the amount of UK TiVo subcribers.

Automan.

[SpankySpanky]

And Westlife are the biggest grossing pop act in the UK as well. Mad country, TBH....


:D :D


SS

[GarySargent]

LOL - So Sky plan to completely kill Sky+ now!....

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/article/ds10685.html

EDIT: Maybe not - when I first read it I thought it was saying that Sky were going to remove the BBC's guide data - but it actually just says they may loose their top slot on channels 101 and 102.

[Automan]

It seems the new styled more compact Sky+ box is starting to be installed by Sky engineers.

Same features (at the moment) but it's white in colour and is the same size as the original Pace Digibox.

See http://www.plusworld.co.uk/News.htm for pictures.

Automan.

[ALanJay]

According the to the folk at Sky http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/article/ds10804.html there is no technical difference with the new box. It does take advantage of smaller bits to make it a much smaller box (pretty much the same size as the standard digibox) but it will be running the same software as the current box and all boxes will get the next software at the same time.

I also get the feeling that there is no plan to differenciate the functionality between the two boxes.

[GarySargent]

White - erm.... Well that will match with everything then, not!

Who on earth makes these decisions.

[larryez]

The standard price of Sky+ has been reduced to £199
But the £10 monthly sub still remains.

[iankb]

Do you know if they're still doing the loyalty package for reduced subscriptions when adding Sky+ to another digibox? Only my Sky subscription has come to the end of its first year, and I haven't received the offer through the post.

Ian.

[gswhite]

Originally posted by iankb
Do you know if they're still doing the loyalty package for reduced subscriptions when adding Sky+ to another digibox? Only my Sky subscription has come to the end of its first year, and I haven't received the offer through the post.

Ian.

Yes they are providing you have been with them over a year :D

[madkenny]

Originally posted by larryez
The standard price of Sky+ has been reduced to £199
But the £10 monthly sub still remains.

AFAIK, Sky are still under contract to Pace to charge the £10 sub. Once the contract expires Sky will have the *option* of reducting the sub or dropping it altogether.

[GarySargent]

Originally posted by larryez
The standard price of Sky+ has been reduced to £199
But the £10 monthly sub still remains.

Standard price remains the same £249 - this is a special offer: "Offer ends 31 May 2003"

[mrtickle]

Originally posted by madkenny
AFAIK, Sky are still under contract to Pace to charge the £10 sub. Once the contract expires Sky will have the *option* of reducting the sub or dropping it altogether.

No, they have the option of doing so now - and in fact they are already offering some customers £0/month if they are on the most expensive subscription package ("World", I beleive).

All it means is that Sky make a loss or make up the money elsewhere which they still have to pay to Pace. Like Tivo does with the lifetime subscription, they would calculate how long they expect the hardware to last.

[Automan]

Boxes have updated to
osv 1.3.0BA
EPG sky+ 1.25.d

No real apparent changes other than faster channel changes if you have the LIveTV buffer offer option selected.

Some changes also to Series links

Automan.

[ALanJay]

Details of what the update contains under the bonnet can be found http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/article/ds10926.html

[iankb]

Originally posted by Automan
Some changes also to Series links

When I read about the changes for Series Links, I was amazed to see what they didn't do before these changes. No wonder they were flakey, and how much better the TiVo has always been for series.

Ian.

[Automan]

Seems a deal has been struct and you will be able to purchase a Amstrad branded Sky+ box :(

See http://www.homecinemachoice.com/cgi-bin/displaynews.php?id=3733 for details.

Automan.

[mrtickle]

More likely - soon when you order Sky+ you won't get a choice between Amstrad and Pace, and you won't find out what you're getting until the day the installer arrives (if she bothers to turn up), etc - just like the standard service!

[SpankySpanky]

Originally posted by iankb
Do you know if they're still doing the loyalty package for reduced subscriptions when adding Sky+ to another digibox? Only my Sky subscription has come to the end of its first year, and I haven't received the offer through the post.

Ian.


They've sent me a 'special offer' deal on Sky+. £199 for Sky+ plus £30 installation, then £15/mth for both Sky+ and the 'mirror' sub. Actually, as a Sky 'hater' (I use their product because there is no option unless I go back to bloody terrestial only) I think this seems like a very good deal, prolly 'cos I'm on the full package so I was already considering whether to get a mirror sub for £15/mth. The fact I can now have Sky+ as well for the same deal (albeit with a £229 up front fee) makes it very attractive. I've got until 27/4/03 to decided (but I bet that date gets extended!). Decisions, decisions....


SS

[kmusgrave]

Originally posted by mrtickle
More likely - soon when you order Sky+ you won't get a choice between Amstrad and Pace, and you won't find out what you're getting until the day the installer arrives (if she bothers to turn up), etc - just like the standard service!

Can't you buy them in the shops any more? When I got mine I just went into a shop, paid the money (for the box only) and walked out with it. I arranged the installation myself.

[ozsat]

My local Comet had a Pace Sky+ for sale last week.

[iankb]

I doubt that you'll be able to get the loyalty package through a dealer. I got my digibox through a £1(?) deal and was supplied with a new silver Grundig. When that failed, I got an older-model black Grundig as a replacement. What is worse, now that my warranty has expired, I would be expected to pay for repairs on what was probably a reconditioned box that I had no choice about.

Ian.

[ozsat]

Originally posted by SpankySpanky
I've got until 27/4/03 to decided (but I bet that date gets extended!). How did you go? :confused:

[Automan]

Seems Sky may reduce the sub for Sky+ also talk of a broadband add-on box

See http://logofreetv.org/render.asp?mode=campaign_news_read&i=123 for info.

1st reported at http://forum.digitalspy.co.uk/board/t/73163/ds.html

Automan.

[Automan]

http://www.plusworld.co.uk/ reports that chn 5 at last have series links :)

Automan.

[Automan]

Seems not only do 5 have series links but they even have ones to bridge the news gaps in movies!

Automan.

[mrtickle]

They are two years late in providing series links on the Sky EPG. I don't see that as anything to boast about.

[jwestoby]

Well, after having it for nearly two years, I've given up my (80gb) Sky+. The box now lies languishing, unpowered, in the corner.

Overall it wasn't worth forking out £10 every month. The programs are normally repeated and I'll probably end up getting a FreeView with a HDD if I do find many conflicts.

In a way I'm sorry. Not only did it work flawlessly but when I did ring customer services they were always VERY helpful. If they had made a lifetime sub I would have jumped on it!

As it is the [fully expanded] TiVo (and my VCR!!!) are now my TV agents.

[cwaring]

FYI there's another interesting "Tivo and Sky+" debate over at DS :)
http://forum.digitalspy.co.uk/board/t/69655/ds.html

[Automan]

At http://skydigital.mediabullet.co.uk/ they claim the £10.00 charge will be dropped (this has also been reported at other locations), more Sky+ boxes to pick from and Dual Record launch sometime this August.

If the £10.00 charge is dropped I assume exisiting Sky customers will be even more tempted to replace their old boxes with new fast dual record PVR's and dump their old vcr's...

Automan.

[SpankySpanky]

The question to consider is do Sky REALLY want Sky+ to become a truly mass market product? This sort of move would just about guarantee that it would. Then you've got a scenario where Sky's advertisers would surely be moaning very loudly about their ads being wizzed through! Unless, of course, the dumping of the £10/mth sub coincided with Sky actually initiating it's 'anti ad wizz through' software that is allegedly buried somewhere in each box....


:)


SS

[pgogborn]

Originally posted by SpankySpanky
The question to consider is do Sky REALLY want Sky+ to become a truly mass market product?
I think there could be a very finely balanced debate going on within Sky.

On one hand, the £10 subscription provides a healthy recurring revenue - and it is recurring revenue that is the fundamental business plan of Sky.

On the other hand, there is increasing UK competition from, and UK consumer awareness of, hard drive recorders with "free" EPGs. Offering a "subscription free" Sky+ box might been seen in the same way as subsidised Digiboxes and sports rights have been seen in the past - an effective way to capture satellite viewers.

[TheBear]

I imagine the box will be sub free on condition that you subscribe to a top tier pacakge.

[ALanJay]

That is efectively what they already offer :)

If you are on the top sub and have a mirror subscription you get your Sky+ sub for free.

As others have said Sky like recurring revenue as this is on of the elements that their financial results are measured on by analysts.

The interesting thing that potentially happens is when the cost of producing a Sky+ box is not significantly more than the standard current box (one would assume that the cost of the standard box will also fall).

Sky+ is a premium product and finding the correct pricing for it within the Sky financial model is obvioulsy an interesting excercise as Sky have been trying many different ideas out on selected subscribers.

It would be nice if they did reduce or remove the monthly charge. Maybe they will extend the idea that they already have with there not being a charge for people taking a mirror subscription to a reduced charge (say £5.00) for those on the top teir not taking a mirror subscription.

Anyway this is all very speculative. At least Sky have repeatedly told me that they will not forget their long time subscribers.

[pgogborn]

According to the latest Sky annual results, at 30 June 2003, the Sky+ had 105,000 subscribers, exceeding the target of 100,000.

Also according to the annual results, "The early evidence is that Sky+ customers demonstrate encouraging levels of customer loyalty and a high propensity to subscribe to top-tier packages. In addition, at 30 June 2003, there were 165,000 subscribers to the Extra Digibox representing 111,000 net additions during the year. Approximately 57% of Sky+ subscribers are also Extra Digibox subscribers." That customer profile may influence how the Sky+ will be marketed in the future. >
http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_files/lse/bsy.uk/Q4_2003_FINAL.pdf

I can not find any mention of the TiVo customer support contract.

[healeydave]

I don't think there would be any mention of TiVo in the Sky's reports unless its comes under "sublet".

I was of the opinion that TiVo just rents call center space from Sky and that is the limit of their involvement!

I could be wrong.

Dave.

[pgogborn]

Originally posted by healeydave
I don't think there would be any mention of TiVo in the Sky's reports unless its comes under "sublet"
Sorry, I was being too oblique.

A previous quarter report mentioned that the TiVo customer support contract with Sky expires on 30th September 2003. A poll on this forum expressed a preference for TiVo Inc renewing the contract with Sky >
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=79906&goto=nextoldest

As the expiry of the contract was specifically mentioned in a previous report, I was wondering if the absence of a mention in this report was an indication that the contract has not (yet) been renewed.

It also seems to be common currency that Sky are going to begin a new marketing push for the Sky+ in September. I wonder if the sales contract with TiVo (also due for expiry on 30th September) placed constraints on how TiVo could market their Sky+.

[Automan]

Not a bad slice of change for virtually doing nothing....

Automan.

P.S. On another new laptop - this one seems to work :)

[SpankySpanky]

Originally posted by pgogborn
I wonder if the sales contract with TiVo (also due for expiry on 30th September) placed constraints on how TiVo could market their Sky+.


Freudian slip, maybe?? Perhaps the wording should be how Sky could market their Tivo clone?? I wonder if it could be proved whether Sky had even thought of a PVR before Tivo came to their attention??


:D


SS

[pgogborn]

Originally posted by SpankySpanky
Freudian slip, maybe?? Perhaps the wording should be how Sky could market their Tivo clone??
Ouch, another pgogborn stuff up. I think the heat must be frying some of my circuits.

I was trying to remember how much press advertising I had seen for the Sky+ (as opposed to point of sale advertising and Sky TV advertising). I was wondering if the contract between TiVo Inc and Sky for the sales promotion of the TiVo contained a clause saying something like, "the press advertising for the Sky+ must not exceed that of the TiVo during the period of the contract".

[ALanJay]

How about that when you are selling a product to your core audience - ie they already have your product this is an upgrade the most sensible place to put your advertising is on Sky's TV channels :)

[Paj]

News International papers were dripping with Sky+ advertising under the guise of editorial on the run up to and following its launch.

[stitches]

Latest info in the digiguide forum seems to more certain that there will be dual recording mid August 2003 and that the monthly fee will be dropped in October. It just seems to get better and better for Sky+.....

[iankb]

Shame they can't do something about the crap EPG (series links, persistent database of series data, etc). They certainly made enough out of subs to have funded development.

Ian.

[sanderton]

That "monthly fee dropped" bit is very speculative, and I would be amazed if it happens beyond people on the full £456 a year package. Even then thay might just get a discount.

[ozsat]

I personally think that the dropping of the fee would be dependent on being a Sky World subscriber (top tier).

It may be they just introduce their 'special offer' as a 'normal charge' in that Extra Subscribers do not pay a Sky+ £10 sub.

[xxxx]

Yet another report of the impending demise of the Sky+ £10 fee.

<http://www.thedvdforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=218459>

[mrtickle]

Pah. You can't view that unless you are registered!

[smiffy]

Try this one

http://thedvdforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=217039

Not much in there really, just quotes from Digital Spy and more guessing about Sky+ and no monthly Subs...

[kitschcamp]

You can't view threads on that forum without being a member.

[xxxx]

Pah. You can't view that unless you are registered!

Sorry about that. I didn't realise. Actually that site is worth registering for, if only for the bargains page.

Anyway, the quote was from some chap who had bought a Sky+ recently and was told by Sky that his sub would be scrapped on October 1.

[mrtickle]

righto, thanks.

[TivoUK]

Is there and email address at Sky I can use to report problems with the Sky+ series link?

I set the Sky+ to record "E! NEW LIVE" on Sky250 at mid-night each day, and it has a series link on it I use.

However, after it has recorded the mid-night showing, it will add the repeat showing at 7pm to the list of shows to be recorded, which I have to remove from the list.

Also, if this 7pm recording clashes with something already scheduled, it does not warn me and allows the clash to exist.

Starting to get annoying now.... :mad:

[healeydave]

I have a solution for you.

Its called TiVo.

(traitor! ;-)

note the smiley, i am having a laugh of-course, have to be careful, the trouble with text, no expression, expected to get flamed if i didn't include this disclaimer! hehehe.

[iankb]

The problems with series links on Sky+ is why most people prefer TiVo. Sky+ relies on the quality of their standard EPG data, as supplied by the broadcasters. Although they take your monthly £10, they do not use any of it on modifying the broadcasters' data, and the inbuilt logic for handling series links is very crude.

The DigitalSpy forums are more useful for Sky+ queries.

Ian.

[TivoUK]

But I have a Tivo also! - hence my name ;)

Alas my Tivo is in need a new hard drives, the updated ones I put in a year or so ago are on the way out - get the famous stuttering problems.

As to the quality of the Tivo listings data, do not get me started :D

[ALanJay]

Originally posted by TivoUK
Is there and email address at Sky I can use to report problems with the Sky+ series link?


Not tha I know of. As others have said ask on the www.digitalspy.co.uk forums as there are a lot of knowledgable Sky+ people on that site.

As far as people know EPG and and series link data is inserted by the broadcaster into the Sky system. Sky themselves have no control over the EPG and series links as the EPG is open to all the broadcasters. There are rules for creating links to stop broadcasters abusing the system but any valid implementation is down to the stations themselves and the computerised systems that do playout and EPG generation.

So the best person to complain to is the channel that you have a problem with. Telling the channel you use series links might make them realise the use of them.

[ozsat]

Originally posted by TivoUK
Is there and email address at Sky I can use to report problems with the Sky+ series link?

I set the Sky+ to record "E! NEW LIVE" on Sky250 at mid-night each day, and it has a series link on it I use.

However, after it has recorded the mid-night showing, it will add the repeat showing at 7pm to the list of shows to be recorded, which I have to remove from the list.

Also, if this 7pm recording clashes with something already scheduled, it does not warn me and allows the clash to exist.

Starting to get annoying now.... :mad: You can set a priority for clashes by using the KEEP button. So if you programmes clash - the KEEP one wins - otherwise it is first in wins (I think).

But TiVo is the best way around the problem. ;)

[Brownedger]

Originally posted by TivoUK
But I have a Tivo also! - hence my name ;)

Alas my Tivo is in need a new hard drives, the updated ones I put in a year or so ago are on the way out - get the famous stuttering problems.

As to the quality of the Tivo listings data, do not get me started :D

If you have a Tivo as well you should know that it's just as bad at recording E! NEWS except instead of getting 12am & 7pm you get 6am & 1pm aswell (the latter two are not even broadcast, and yes it has been reported on the listings thread).

In fact on Tivo the whole E! Entertaiment listings are over the place, with progs in the wrong slots and holes in the schedules.

[Automan]

As reported at plusworld Sky are sinking £20Million into pushing Sky+

How much did Tivo UK spend?

http://www.corporate-ir.net/ireye/ir_site.zhtml?ticker=bsy.uk&script=415&layout=0&item_id=458599

Automan.

[sanderton]

Is that £20m of cash or £20m-worth of free ads on Sky One and in the Sky Magazine?

[Automan]

Originally posted by sanderton
Is that £20m of cash or £20m-worth of free ads on Sky One and in the Sky Magazine?

They are seeking fresh customers as well as upgrades for exitisting customers.

The new marketing drive represents the first time that BSkyB has promoted the benefits of Sky+ outside its existing customer base. Above-the-line elements of the multi-faceted campaign will include 40'' and 10'' spots on terrestrial and Sky channels, posters and radio sponsorship of Virgin's breakfast show. In addition, Sky+ will be promoted through direct mail, Sky's own promotional airtime, the Sky customer magazine, in-store marketing and on a new, dedicated website http://www.skyplus.co.uk

Automan.

[Automan]

It seems those nice people at Disney are now transmitting in Anamorphic Widescreen and according to the EPG in Dolby Digital.

Mary Poppins is on today and Chitty Chitty Bang Bang next weekend in 16:9 and maybe 5.1 sound.

No Dolby Digital at the moment but I suspect their are having problems (as are Sky with chn 302 and the multiple starts).

Automan.

[Criftin2000]

Has any one noticed noise on there phone line since having Sky+ (PVR2 box) installed

[Automan]

Originally posted by Criftin2000
Has any one noticed noise on there phone line since having Sky+ (PVR2 box) installed

No,
Have you checked it is your Sky+ box causing the problem by unplugging the phone cord from the back?

Other thing to check is the number of devices plugged into your phone line (REN value total should not exceed 4 without fitting a REN booster - I have one fitted).

Automan.

[ozsat]

Originally posted by Criftin2000
Has any one noticed noise on there phone line since having Sky+ (PVR2 box) installed No - I have Sky+, Sky and a ONdigital box in the same line - and not noticed anything at all.

[Criftin2000]

Originally posted by Automan
No,
Have you checked it is your Sky+ box causing the problem by unplugging the phone cord from the back?

Automan.

Yes it’s definitely the Sky+ box, plugged straight in to the incoming BT line and disconnect all other wiring noise only on phone when Sky plugged in. Sky engineer came to replace box on Sat new box had same problem.

CS came up with a great idea get a second line or just unplug the box when you want to use the phone, sorry but you will have to live with it.

I find Sky CS very uncooperative, just wanted to know if any one else has same prob before I get back on to them.

Criftin2000

[Automan]

Criftin2000,
When they tried the replacement box did they use a new cable between the BT socket and the Sky+ box or the cable from the previous box?

Also was the phone socket Sky+ is plugged into installed by a BT Engineer?

I also assume your Sky+ box passes the phone line detected test?

I've done another search on this problem and have found no matches.

Automan.

[Criftin2000]

I tried a replacement cable before engineer came and the first thing he checked was the modem lead.

The line was installed by a BT engineer and the box does detect the line connected, Sky CS gave me the impression they knew PVR2 boxes had this prob.

Criftin2000

[kitschcamp]

Originally posted by Automan
No Dolby Digital at the moment but I suspect their are having problems (as are Sky with chn 302 and the multiple starts).


And 301, and 303... Slight understatement. I think that sound that is dropping out every few seconds and then stops altogether a major failing of DD at the moment.

[Automan]

However the sound vision sync are so far out I can't even judge it!

Also like the Sky DD movie channels, the audio level is so much lower so if you select another channel your ear drums will explode!

EDIT:
They keep now changing from DD to Surround and back and now the voices are back in sync - sounds like Leonard Nimoy!

Automan

[starfire]

Looks like Dual Record has gone live for Sky+ users now.

[sanderton]

Seems to have fried a few people's recordings and even boxes too!

[kitschcamp]

Yeah, not at all impressed. Not impressed at all. Steaming pile of budgy droppings.

[ozsat]

Is it that those who have had problems have upgraded their discs?

My box went into standby this morning and previous recordings are OK on a standard V1 machine.

[Azrikam]

Frankly, I'd be shocked if it wasn't full of bugs. Sky generally needs 2 or 3 releases on a new feature to work out the kinks. (one would think they'd do some testing before release, but... :rolleyes: )

Still, if they ever get the bugs worked out, Sky+ may start looking like a viable alternative to TiVo.

[pahunt]

Originally posted by Azrikam
Still, if they ever get the bugs worked out, Sky+ may start looking like a viable alternative to TiVo.

As far as I'm concerned the bugs aren't the reason that Sky+ isn't a viable alternative the real reason is the "missing" features like wishlists and season passes that actually work correctly.

[Azrikam]

Yeah, but dual recording, 5.1 sound, and better picture quality goes a long way towards making up for those weaknesses.

I'm not switching yet, but I'm definitely keeping an eye on the evolution of Sky+.

[kitschcamp]

5.1 sound that doesn't keep dropping out would be a good feature ;)

At the moment, it's no replacement for Tivo.

[kitschcamp]

Originally posted by ozsat
Is it that those who have had problems have upgraded their discs?


Mine was a standard V1 machine, and yes I'd replaced the disc as it failed a month or so ago. That could be the reason, I suppose.

[pahunt]

Originally posted by Azrikam
Yeah, but dual recording, 5.1 sound, and better picture quality goes a long way towards making up for those weaknesses.

I'm not switching yet, but I'm definitely keeping an eye on the evolution of Sky+.

Each to their own but I'll live with the inferior picture quality and sound if it means I can have wishlists. I'm really not sure I could survive without them anymore :)

[Azrikam]

So will I... for now. :D

[sjp]

my upgraded V2 box survived fine...

[Automan]

For most users 5.1 sound on the five channels that have it is now okay.

Features with new software
1. Dual Record :)
2. Time remaining indication during playback (press select during playback)
3. Series links will still record future episodes if you cancel the next recording or it clashes with the other two things you are trying to record at the same time (4 week limit on break to next episode).
4. Macrocode update of some of the chips (this is what may have caused problems for a few of the 110,000 Sky+ in use).
5. Audio output on copy to VCR (V2 boxes only)

Not fixed
1. Numeric free space indicator (for non standard drive)
2. Still only 20 fav channels

Automan.

[mrtickle]

Question - does item 3 mean that a Sky series link for "The Sky At Night" would now work for the first time? Or Crimewatch? Or for the 6-month gap bewteen the end of one season of a drama and the start of the next?

[Automan]

Originally posted by mrtickle
Question - does item 3 mean that a Sky series link for "The Sky At Night" would now work for the first time? Or Crimewatch? Or for the 6-month gap bewteen the end of one season of a drama and the start of the next?

If the BBC put a series link on the Sky at Night it should auto record every month.

Crimewatch would not as the hidden series link marker would autodelete five months before the next episode.

The same would apply to things like Stargate & Enterprise.
Twelve months would have been a smarter value.

Automan.

[sammoj]

Originally posted by Automan
For most users 5.1 sound on the five channels that have it is now okay.

Features with new software
1. Dual Record :)
2. Time remaining indication during playback (press select during playback)
3. Series links will still record future episodes if you cancel the next recording or it clashes with the other two things you are trying to record at the same time (4 week limit on break to next episode).
4. Macrocode update of some of the chips (this is what may have caused problems for a few of the 110,000 Sky+ in use).
5. Audio output on copy to VCR (V2 boxes only)

Not fixed
1. Numeric free space indicator (for non standard drive)
2. Still only 20 fav channels

Automan.

Think I just found one you missed Automan. My Sky+ now has the ability to save the rewind buffer program to disk. Ie: if you decided to record a program after watching 20 mins it will save from the start. I am sure it did not used to do that?

John

PS: Sorry should have said "my sons Sky+" as I gave up on it as a bad job :D and went back to Tivo

[wozwebs]

That's right the buffer can now be recorded as TiVo can but this time if you set the buffer for 1 hour in your settings you can record up to an hour. Even better than TiVo's 30 mins.

Seriously thinking about switching now. Have ordered normal Sky to be installed on Friday at my new house (moving in tomorrow) but may phone up and change it to Sky+.

Had a play with it at my mates house earlier and asked him if he had checked to see if dual record was working. Set BBC 1 and ITV1 to record, both did, whilst we checked a previous recording. If TiVo could do that then it would obviously blow Sky+ away but as someone who only watches the 'main' channels and not History, Biography etc and who never uses Wishlists anyway I think I will go for it.

I decided not to a few weeks back, but after seeing Dual Record in action and with 100% picture quality I think Sky+ has won me over. That is until TiVo with built in DVD-Recorder comes to the UK and I ditch Sky+ :) Oh the joys of men and gadgets!!

[sjp]

woz... you might want to wait a few weeks... if you change it before you move in you will 1) probably lose your appointment and have to wait another week or so and 2) not score a "free" digibox ;)

"never uses wishlists" yer mad man, stark raving bonkers :D

[wozwebs]

Good point sjp, I am not getting a free digigbox anyway though. I am moving house so taking current box and paing £40 for installation but am getting the top package half price for 3 months (saving £60 off that, so really saving £20)

Might be worth asking if they can just in case the Sky bloke has a Sky+ box in his van on Friday. Will ring to check. Cheers

[sjp]

so you didn't go for the change sub into wives name and move the DD to another account then... i did a couple of years back - worked a treat ;)

[Automan]

Sorry,
I forgot that :(

All you have to do is press the rec button to save what's on and up to an hour in the past (depending on your settings and if you've been on the same channel).

I heard also an unconfirmed rumour today that the filmfour suite of channels may be Dolby Digital by the end of next March.

fingers crossed.

Automan.

[Azrikam]

Recording the buffer seems really small, but it's currently the feature I'd most like to have on my TiVo.

Because TiVo's guide data is iffy (at best) on some channels, I find myself flipping through them at certain times of the day, unsure what's being broadcast. When I do land on a programme I want, I end up creating a manual recording that starts in the past to tack the recording buffer to the rest of the show. If there's an easier way to do this, I'd like to know.

[sjp]

just press record and whatever is in the buffer (since last channel change) will be recorded... tivo has always had this feature (at least in my ownership years).

[Richardr]

One interesting thing I noticed last night is that now recording two consecutive programmes on Sky+ (and I had the set switched to standby) gives the full soft padding (overlapping) on both programmes.

[Automan]

Originally posted by Richardr
One interesting thing I noticed last night is that now recording two consecutive programmes on Sky+ (and I had the set switched to standby) gives the full soft padding (overlapping) on both programmes.

Yes, clever stuff
If Sky+ is in standby it will soft pad two programs that follow each other if on the same or different channels.

Some users who have upgraded their hard drives have had problems playing some of their older recordings back and some are having problems with new recordings.

I had three movies which would not play correctly.
All new recordings have played okay.

It's also reported that with some V1 boxes, if they recieved the upgrade when in standby will refuse to exit standby.

A special key sequence has to be used to force a cold box reboot (not a software download).

You can't beat controlled beta testing of a product before you roll it out to 120,000 customers :)

Automan.

[Automan]

Something else you have to get used to is the EPG while the box is dual recording....

1. Only 48hrs of program name guide available.
2. No synopsis availble for anything on in the future (other than what your recording).
3. No EPG music :(
4. No Interactive services.

This is all caused because normally a digibox would tune to the EPG channel while in the TV guide. Because both tuners are recording it can't.

While only one item is recording (or nothing is recording) operation is as before.

EDIT:
A few images for those who have no Sky+ box (yet)
http://www.hummer.co.uk/dual-record.htm

Automan.

[ozsat]

I've had this three times now - twice on BBC and once on Sky Sports.

When going to playback a recording - it is only 1-2 minutes long - and ends at the point when the actual programme should start. No errors reported, you a short recording.

Others are reporting this is the DS forum - and even the Sky CS person I spoke to was aware of it and has had the same problem - but Sky TS deny the problem.

[kitschcamp]

Originally posted by ozsat
I've had this three times now - twice on BBC and once on Sky Sports.

When going to playback a recording - it is only 1-2 minutes long - and ends at the point when the actual programme should start. No errors reported, you a short recording.


Yup, I've had that two weeks running with Casualty. I wasn't impressed.

[ozsat]

It's like the TiVo problem - but in reverse.

People complain that TiVo misses the last two minutes - now, Sky+ only gets the first two minutes :)

I am aware of some other issues with Sky+ which are known by Sky - so I would expect another upgrade soon.

[kitschcamp]

Fingers crossed. I've removed the large hard drive from mine, and finally got around to putting the waranty replacement from Maxtor back in. That seems to work more reliably, at least, for the 17 minute bug problem.

[ozsat]

I had my Sky+ set to record 2 minutes before start and 2 minutes at end of all programmes.

It has still managed only to record 1-2 minutes in total - so much for padding.

[kitschcamp]

I had mine set for automatic padding.

I wonder if a manual recording would work any better?

[ozsat]

After the first two failures which were 2minutes either side - I changed it to auto at start and 2 minutes at end. It still didn't record more than 1 minute.

I've now set five at end.

[ozsat]

Don't know if its true or not - as I don't trust Sky+ enough to use it for top programmes (I use TiVo and it has found it OK) - but:

This Friday at 8pm on Sky One is a brand new episode of 'The Simpsons' (Sky's top programme), but the series link on Sky+ has skipped over it!

[cwaring]

According to DigiGuide it is the much-hyped, UK-based episode. Repeated Sunday @ 6.30pm.

[ozsat]

Originally posted by cwaring
According to DigiGuide it is the much-hyped, UK-based episode. Repeated Sunday @ 6.30pm. Featuring the UK's most well know ACTOR!

I wonder what the 8pm screening is about.

[mrtickle]

Originally posted by cwaring
According to DigiGuide it is the much-hyped, UK-based episode. Repeated Sunday @ 6.30pm.

NB that's Sunday 18th Jan for the repeat.

It's the only First Run Simpsons I can remember since I got Sky in 1997 that has a repeat shortly afterwards. Normally if you miss the first showing, you have a wait of 6-9 months before they'll show it in the daily showings!

[cwaring]

Originally posted by mrtickle
NB that's Sunday 18th Jan for the repeat.
Sorry! My bad. I don't normally watch the show, so didn't really take much notice of the date :)

For the record, this will be only the first (possibly second) full episode I have ever seen.

[Andrew Dade]

Unrelated to discussion above but may be of interest...

My Sky+ decided to lock up during a viewing of programme last weekend. Not the first time and seems worse since the dual record thing was introduced. But this time nasty...

Unplug

Plug back in

Have no HD control or Personal planner, but can surf no problem. Message on screen... "call customer services, problem with box."

repeat power cycle a couple of times, same deal.

I checked the LNB feeds in the installer menu and hey one was down. Me checks antenna, cables, connectors.. no apparent problems, even swaped the feeds and yes the antenna seems OK. I assume some kind of hardware failure and call the on screen number.

Very helpful lady takes me to installer menu and does reset... Hey presto all well but all recordings and planner gone....

Hmmm, TiVo wins again...

[Automan]

It seems Sky's testing of this new feature was far from complete.

Quite a few users who have upgraded their drives suffer the 17min syndrome where recordings will not play beyond that point (sometimes 34mins).

A full housekeep (reformat drive) cures the problem for most but not all.

The dual record logic also under some conditions seems flawed with the box now saying part rec even when the whole program has been recorded.

The did not even manage to check the record led works correctly!
Under some conditions it can be off when its recording (typically when the first of two recordings being made end).
Other times its been reported to be on when nothing is being recorded.

"DR" as "Dual Record" is now known does have some good points and can soft pad two consectutive programs recorded from the same channel or different channels.

Automan.

[JamboRobbo]

Originally posted by Automan

A full housekeep (reformat drive) cures the problem for most but not all.



Only for a while though. The problem seems to have a chance of re-appearing whenever the box is re-booted (as happened to me last week!).

Robbo

[bobnick]

Originally posted by Automan
It seems Sky's testing of this new feature was far from complete.

It seems that 99% of the people affected have opened up their boxes and replaced the hard disk with one of their own - that's a diferent make and size to that supplied.
Tivo have given the nod with regard to disk replacement - but Sky haven't.
You can't really blame Sky's software testing for not picking up these 'problems' - I haven't complained to Panasonic after my microwave stopped working when I 'upgraded' it.

[Andrew Dade]

I should say that my drive is the original supplied.... still needed the reformat route it seems.

Had thought about an upgrade but not done it as yet... maybe I will wait ;)

TiVo has a 120 Gb no problems at all....:D

[cwaring]

Originally posted by bobnick
I haven't complained to Panasonic after my microwave stopped working when I 'upgraded' it.

That sounds interesting. Do tell :) Is it now like the one in "Back To The Future II" that will cook stuff in, like, ten seconds :D

[bobnick]

Didn't that one expand food?

[ozsat]

Originally posted by bobnick
It seems that 99% of the people affected have opened up their boxes and replaced the hard disk with one of their own - that's a diferent make and size to that supplied.
Tivo have given the nod with regard to disk replacement - but Sky haven't.
You can't really blame Sky's software testing for not picking up these 'problems' - I haven't complained to Panasonic after my microwave stopped working when I 'upgraded' it. I would say that "TiVo have turned a blind eye - rather than giving the nod"

[bobnick]

Say what you like, but Tivo have acknowledged that people pop the case and install new stuff. They've used 3rd party software (that was developed to be used on hacked series 1 machines) in their new OS.
Sky have never acknowledged or allowed people to pop the case of Sky+.

Without the geeks that have upgraded their Sky+, the 17 minute bug seems to be no worse than Tivo's random ability to record no signal for certain recordings.

[pahunt]

Originally posted by bobnick
Say what you like, but Tivo have acknowledged that people pop the case and install new stuff. They've used 3rd party software (that was developed to be used on hacked series 1 machines) in their new OS.
Sky have never acknowledged or allowed people to pop the case of Sky+.

Without the geeks that have upgraded their Sky+, the 17 minute bug seems to be no worse than Tivo's random ability to record no signal for certain recordings.

They have acknowledged it but they made things a lot harder to hack with the Series 2 so it would seem they're not entirely happy. Also don't forget that they have just had all the backup images removed from the sites that were hosting them.

[pgogborn]

Originally posted by pahunt
They have acknowledged it but they made things a lot harder to hack with the Series 2 so it would seem they're not entirely happy. Also don't forget that they have just had all the backup images removed from the sites that were hosting them.
In a further crack-down on the copying/modifying etc of software, the next announce enhancement will be protected with a hardware dongle. Or as TiVo Inc would put it - we think it is so important to protect a users content, a security key will have to be inserted into the TiVo before a user can transfer recordings to another device. >
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?postid=1637078#post1637078

[Automan]

http://www.amstrad.com/drx180.html

500,000 Sky boxes sold by the end of 2004?

Automan.

[wozwebs]

Doesn't seem to be anything different to the Pace V2 does there?

[Automan]

Over the last couple of days Sky+ boxes have received another upgrade.

This has changed to box model number information and the only apparent change is that the cooling fan now cuts in at a lower temperature and thus runs more often.

The upgrade did of course reboot the boxes bringing the 17min problem back (for users with non standard drives).

I have done a full housekeep on my box to see if this change has correct this problem.

My box is recording at the moment Ben Hur from the BBC.
Very strange, they have managed to find a 16:9 copy but only mono sound :(

Ben Hur was recorded with a six channel magnectic sound system.

Automan.

[randap]

Pardon my ignorance (and this is a LONG thread), can you use TiVo to control one of the Sky+ tuners?

If so, can you still watch another Sky+ channel (or have Sky+ recording another channel) at the same time?

Are there any other combinations you can run with TiVo and Sky+?

Would anyone recommend a TiVo and Sky+ combo rather than a regular receiver?

I thinking of getting Sky+ you see.........now that installation is free but I don't want to have a dual subscription going.

[iankb]

You really need the dual subscription, or else you will need to run the Sky+ box as not much more than a standard digibox. The problem is that while the Sky+ box has twin tuners, it only has one output. Therefore if you give that output to the TiVo, you cannot watch anything else from the Sky+ box, whether you want to watch a live Sky channel, or watch a Sky+ recording.

[randap]

OK. Let me get this straight:

You can use TiVo to control Sky+ but....

1) TiVo will record the Sky+ output whether it is live or a recording
2) Sky+ could record a different channel while TiVo is recording a live output :D (can you watch live TV while Sky+ is recording?)
3) You could only watch the Sky+ recording when TiVo is not wanting to record something else :(

All in all, this suggests a TiVo - Sky+ combo is almost pointless.....:down:

[iankb]

It is pointless. The only real combination is with a dual subscription. Then you can use the TiVo to control a standard digibox, use one Sky+ channel to record DD5.1 films and clashes, and use the other Sky+ channel to watch live, or record three-way clashes. Since the standard digibox and the Sky+ box use different IR-codes, you shouldn't have any IR problems.

At one time, it was also stated that the dual recording feature of Sky+ would display prompts that confused the TiVo control. However, this may have been a red herring.

[randap]

Thanks Ian. You've just saved me £199!!!

[Steve_K]

Originally posted by iankb
It is pointless. The only real combination is with a dual subscription. . Sorry Ian I have to disagree. Sky+/TiVo works fine for me as long as I don't get too clever and set Sky+ to record two programmes simultaneously just when TiVo wants to record something from Sky (TiVo will kill the second recording) or watch a Sky+ recording when you're expecting TiVo to record something important from Sky.

Be sensible and Sky+ matched with TiVo is a staggeringly good set up. The extra freedom it's given me through dual record is almost as good as the initial gain of getting TiVo some years back.

So randap my view is go see how Sky+ works for a user you know. You'll find the user interface very clunky but the dual record and picture quality brilliant. Well worth the £250 in my book. If I could only have one I'd pick TiVo - I think, but maybe . . . . .

steve

[iankb]

You obviously don't record as much as me. There is no way that I could watch a live programme or a Sky+ recording, without the risk of upsetting a TiVo recording. The only way that could work is if you use the Sky+ box as the primary recorder, and the TiVo for occasional clashes. I would always use the TiVo as the primary recorder because of its SP and wishlist functionality.

Sorry, for me, it is still pointless.

[sanderton]

Over at Digital Spy, it appears that Alan Sugar has started posting on a thread about Sky+, now that the Amstrad model is shipping.

http://forum.digitalspy.co.uk/board/showthread.php?t=114932

If it's not him then its a very elaborate hoax!!

[iankb]

A very brave man. It's a shame that TiVo Inc. didn't send him a free TiVo a while ago. Then he wouldn't be quite so adamant that Sky+ is going to grab the whole UK market.

[pgogborn]

He may have delegated the postings to a minion, but he has been active on the board. He even offered 10 prototype Amstrad Sky+ boxes to people on the forum to test and try to break.

[kitschcamp]

Originally posted by sanderton

If it's not him then its a very elaborate hoax!!

It's very Lemon Lyman, isn't it?:D

[Steve_K]

Originally posted by iankb
Sorry, for me, it is still pointless. We're both right, as it just shows how much the TiVo/PVR change has done for all of us. It's let us watch TV how we want and let us build our own styles of viewing. I watch a huge amount of TV, most of it recorded on the TiVo and the SKY+/TiVO works with our way of using it. It clearly doesn't work for the way you use it and why should you change? No reason at all.

For me I always look at TiVO's to do list before using Sky+ replay/pause features and so far that's worked very well.

cheers

steve

[the_hut]

Thankfully he did confirm that the next UK TiVo is unlikely to be made by Amstrad. Something of a relief, I think.

I would also like to echo the previous comments that TiVo and Sky Plus work well together. I use the TiVo day to day and Sky Plus only when I want to dual record. Picture quality on Sky Plus is also superb... when I get a DVD recorder for archiving, I have a feeling that Sky Plus will get used a lot more at our house.

[iankb]

My comments about Sky+ and TiVo were not related to having both boxes, which I think makes a lot of sense, but in the practicality of using the Sky+ box as the source for the TiVo.

I just couldn't rely on getting reliable TiVo recordings if I had to continually find suitable gaps to watch a Sky+ recording or live programme, especially if those recordings were long (DD5.1) films. Also, the recording of TiVo suggestions would have to be switched off to ensure that those gaps didn't disappear. I'm sure that some people finds that acceptable, but I was trying to point out that probably the majority of people wouldn't.

[sanderton]

Originally posted by the_hut
Thankfully he did confirm that the next UK TiVo is unlikely to be made by Amstrad. Something of a relief, I think.


On the contrary, better any TiVo than none, and Amstrad's kit has got alot better.

[cwaring]

Originally posted by kitschcamp
It's very Lemon Lyman, isn't it?:D

Ahh! Another "West Wing" fan ;)

[kitschcamp]

Too right. Well and truly getting the jitters waiting for the new series to arrive (presumably in the summer).

[randap]

Originally posted by iankb
My comments about Sky+ and TiVo were not related to having both boxes, which I think makes a lot of sense, but in the practicality of using the Sky+ box as the source for the TiVo.

I just couldn't rely on getting reliable TiVo recordings if I had to continually find suitable gaps to watch a Sky+ recording or live programme, especially if those recordings were long (DD5.1) films. Also, the recording of TiVo suggestions would have to be switched off to ensure that those gaps didn't disappear. I'm sure that some people finds that acceptable, but I was trying to point out that probably the majority of people wouldn't.

Ah well. I've gone and done it. Sky+ arrives 18th April......

I've decided that I'll continue to use TiVo to control Sky+, and then occasionally use Sky+ for DD5.1 movies (I have lots of DVDs so this is fairly rare). The reason being that I have future proof flexibilty, and can always change things around at a later date if my situation changes - all I need to do now is route my cables so that Sky don't wreck my home.......

[Mike Jones]

Has anyone asked Alan Sugar direct on the Digital Spy forum if he has ever considered making a TIVo?

[spons]

Funny how the longest thread on this Forum is the Sky+ thread eh???;)

[sanderton]

It was started three years ago...

[cwaring]

Originally posted by Mike Jones
Has anyone asked Alan Sugar direct on the Digital Spy forum if he has ever considered making a TIVo?

Yep. I think Stuart did. Alan's reply was that they were sticking with Sky+.

[ozsat]

For those of your in the BBC1 London or South regions - note that your Sky EPG is wrong tonight as both regions are showing their own programmes at 11.15pm which are missing from your EPG. There are not only missing but the EPG has the wrong times from 11.15pm until the end of the film which will be 30 minutes later than stated in the EPG.

The same applies to BBC1 East Midlands, BBC1 North, BBC1 North West and BBC1 West at 11.35pm on Wednesday night.

At present, the Sky EPG is not able to show time-shifted variations (or non news opt-outs) for BBC1 England regions.

TiVo has the correct listings.

[gregh]

Afternoon all,

I'm moving house shortly and am considering reducing the amount of boxes under the TV, so wondering about selling the Tivo and getting Sky+, so Ihave a few questions.

1) Does the Sky+ season pass now record new series if you'd set it to record the last series?

2) anything like endpad to auto add start/end padding?

The advantages I see to Sky+ are the dolby digital output, and the ability to record one program whilst watching another. Any other advantages I've missed?

cheers,

Greg

[sanderton]

1) No, they time out after 28 days with no showing
2) Yes, as I understand it that's the standard behaviour.

[Stroller]

Originally posted by gregh
Afternoon all,

I'm moving house shortly and am considering reducing the amount of boxes under the TV, so wondering about selling the Tivo and getting Sky+, so I have a few questions.

1) Does the Sky+ season pass now record new series if you'd set it to record the last series?

2) anything like endpad to auto add start/end padding?

The advantages I see to Sky+ are the dolby digital output, and the ability to record one program whilst watching another. Any other advantages I've missed?

cheers,

Greg
Mate, as someone who owns both a Tivo and Sky+, i'd advise you to reconsider. If I had to have one of the two, the Sky+ would be gone in a second!
As a PVR or even a DVR its so limited at a platform its embarrassing. Some of the small things you take for granted with the Tivo just cant be done on the sky system, and when these little "niggles" run into the 10's and 20's you begin to appreciate just how much better Tivo is than the Sky+
For someone who has never owned a Tivo i can see why people may think sky+ is great, but once you've owned a Tivo you'll really notice the limitations of Sky pretty damn sharpish!

At the VERY LEAST i'd suggest you keep the Tivo for a while when you get the sky - 99% of all recording in my household is done on the Tivo, which says it all for me really. Right now my Sky+ HDD is about 80-88% empty, while my Tivo is always near full! :cool:

[gregh]

Is it really that bad? what's the little niggles that it can't do then?

cheers,

Greg

[Steve_K]

it'd take too long to tell all the little niggles of Sky+ compared to TiVo but here's a few:

- it won't go weeks let alone months without crashing.

- it won't recognise season passes for strange reasons - eg Fifth gear and it certainly doesn't rememebr them for programmes that return after a year.

- it won't do wish lists

- it won't do proper searches by title, content or actors

- it won't record suggestions

That said it's a tough call which I could do without first. I reckon if you're smart enough to use this forum you're smart enough to cope with the funnies of either Sky+ (awesome picture quality and flexibility) and TiVo (stunning user interface and aids).

My vote: get them both, they complement each other

steve

[Furball]

You forgot to add all those lovely TiVo sounds ie the bongs, dongs and blings that you dont get with $ky+
The number of $ky+ owners that have heard the way our TiVo bings and bongs, ask if I have added the sounds and could I copy the sound files and add them to their $ky+ box :rolleyes:
I just say buy a TiVo :D

Fur

[chrisrobbo]

But Sky+ will continue to improve, whilst TIVO in the Uk has hit the wall. No more updates to the UK Tivo, at least Sky+ can get better!

As an owner of both, I would find it hard to choose one over the other, half a dozen of one, to six of the other. I don't like this comparison of the two, in my eyes they are two different pieces of kit,

If you want a PVR that will do your thinking for you, record programmes you may like, work on alternative packages, a kit which you can fiddle with to you hearts content, then TIVO is for you.

If you want a solid replacement for your video, which will record your programmes digitally on a hard drive, allow you to record two programmes at once, whilst watching anther prerecorded, not to far from the platform your already used too, if you a current sky subscriber then Sky+ is for you.

If you really want to be adventourous then buiild your own! an hard drive, a capture card etc.

As I said, TIVO or Sky+, have a think about what YOU want, and not what other people expect from a PVR then decide which is better for you.

[cwaring]

Originally posted by chrisrobbo
But Sky+ will continue to improve, whilst TIVO in the Uk has hit the wall. No more updates to the UK Tivo, at least Sky+ can get better!

In the time that Sky+ takes to get to Tivo's level of useability/features, there may well be another Tivo in the UK :) (We all hope ;))

[gregh]

I'd love to have both, but seeing as I'm trying to reduce the number of boxes that ain't an option!

I can live without suggestions, don't use wish lists, but the fact it crashes so often ain't good. Is yours a v1 or v2 Sky+?

[Stroller]

Originally posted by gregh
Is it really that bad? what's the little niggles that it can't do then?

cheers,

Greg

For me its little things that I didn't realise how much I used them until I coulnd't do them with the sky. for example, you cant browse the EPG on Sky while you have a program paused (when i'm watching live TV, i often browse the EPG while the ads are on - you cant do this with sky!!!), you cannot pause interactive football, you cannot record interactive football (or anything interactive for that matter!), you cannot pause live TV and watch a recording (something i tend to do when i want to generate a 'build up' on a long program and run on the ads, the EPG is massively flawed (its a real pain in the ass to find things on the EPG compared to Tivo), the EPG on Sky is only a week (at best!). Many things I have season passes for on my Tivo just aren't available on Sky+ due to the shoddy way they've implemented the links. Not to mention the Tivo is a MUCH more stable platform. I've lost many programs and recordings on the Sky, but never on the Tivo. You can also upgrade a Tivo without the fear of it failing to work thereafter. The same cannot be said for sky

[chrisrobbo]

Regarding Sky+ crashing, I have had mine for more than two years and can't recall it crashing once.

The thing about Sky+ crashing is, you only here from those people whose crash! and not from the hundreds of thousands (present users of sky+ is in excess of 300,000) that have no problem at all.

So, although I do believe there are sky+ systems out there that have bugs and crash, I believe it to be a small minority, and the problems should be taken with a large pinch of salt.

[iankb]

What you hear about is those Sky+ users who experience crashes and post to newsgroups. What about the majority of Sky+ users who experience crashes and don't post to newsgroups?

[ozsat]

I don't have any crash problems with Sky+

[chrisrobbo]

What I was saying is that a person is more likely to post to a newsgroup or forum if they experience problems, whether the reason is to try and find a solution or just to shout about it. If a person (such as myself) experience no problems, crashes, lost programmes, or broken series links, then they are more likely to get on with life.

Discuss

[ozsat]

Originally posted by chrisrobbo
What I was saying is that a person is more likely to post to a newsgroup or forum if they experience problems, whether the reason is to try and find a solution or just to shout about it. If a person (such as myself) experience no problems, crashes, lost programmes, or broken series links, then they are more likely to get on with life.

Discuss :up:

[Automan]

Under my main TV I still have a Tivo with it's own Digibox and a Pace V2 Sky+ box. Both are fitted with 120Gb hard drives.

The Sky+ box I use nearly all the time and the Tivo quite often remains in standby except at the weekends where I check if it's recorded anything interesting that it has not already recorded before (it's a shame the 30 day rule was not a 90 day rule). Typically everything it records I've already watched or I did not want to record anyway so I delete.

Sky+ hovever only records things I want to watch, is faster to use, no sound effects on the menus, always records the correct channel, you can browse for other things to record while playing a recording, can record two things at once, padding, supports dolby digital sound, rarely crashes, you can create bookmarks in recordings, no picture or sound quality degradation caused by recording progress, never records red dots, interactive service availble from same remote, remote can control modern TV's volume / mute or most modern A/V amps, series links now work okay even if the next episode is not yet in the upcoming EPG.

Virtually every series I want to record has a series link.
The X-Files, Early Edition, Chips, Lost In Space, Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea, Big Screen Britain, My Family, Jonathan Creek, The Dick Van Dyke Show, Sliders, Star Trek: Enterprise, The New Twilight Zone & South Park.

True, it can't auto record all movies with John Wayne in :(

At a guess I would say their must be at least 150,000 Sky+ boxes now in service in the UK comapred with 30 to 40,000 Tivo boxes.

I'm sure most Sky+ box owners are very happy with the product and if all you were used to was a VCR a Sky+ is a big + :)

Automan.

[cwaring]

Originally posted by Automan
Typically everything it records I've already watched or I did not want to record anyway so I delete.

Sorry if I've mis-interepreted your meaning, but I don't see how this is possible; unless you only use it to record suggestions.

[the_hut]

Originally posted by chrisrobbo
What I was saying is that a person is more likely to post to a newsgroup or forum if they experience problems, whether the reason is to try and find a solution or just to shout about it. If a person (such as myself) experience no problems, crashes, lost programmes, or broken series links, then they are more likely to get on with life.

Discuss

After I got my TiVo I, like many others, flocked to this forum to evangelize about what a great product it was.

[Steve_K]

re Sky+ crashes I must have a V2 as I only got it this year

Now this isn't a Sky forum but for the purposes of validating the comparison, this sequence makes my Sky+ crash just about every time:

Watch a recorded Sky+ programme and then stop it at critical point by pressing the Sky button followed by numbers (TiVo will do this if it thinks it's time for a suggestion but then the cat can and has done the same by walking on the remote)

Shout a few words, then grab the remote and quickly press the Sky guide button to get back to the original programme - wrong!

At this point my Sky+ will blank the screen except for a frozen programme banner. It will play the sound but will do nothing else until you cycle the power (needs at least a 2 minute recovery) Shout a lot of words. If I was watching a delayed live programme it loses all that recording. Shout even more.

It's probably a memory buffer overflow but it does it enough to annoy. TiVo meantime just never seems to crash and this forum is much better than the Sky+ one on Digital Spy.

But then Sky+ coped with the Indy 500 rescheduling.

If you really haven't room for two boxes, why not put both in a cupboard and run them an IR remote repeater?

steve

[Automan]

Originally posted by Steve_K
re Sky+ crashes I must have a V2 as I only got it this year

Watch a recorded Sky+ programme and then stop it at critical point by pressing the Sky button followed by numbers (TiVo will do this if it thinks it's time for a suggestion but then the cat can and has done the same by walking on the remote)

Shout a few words, then grab the remote and quickly press the Sky guide button to get back to the original programme - wrong!



To return to a recording you were watching all you have to do is press the play key twice.

No need to return to any sky menu or the Sky Guide.

Automan.

[Automan]

Originally posted by cwaring
Sorry if I've mis-interepreted your meaning, but I don't see how this is possible; unless you only use it to record suggestions.

It has lots of wish lists to record programs starring x.

These are typically movie stars and most of the movies I have already seen.

It also records lost in space and many of the other items Sky+ does.
But I would normally watched them already on Sky+ and are just a sought of backup copy incase Sky+ lets me down.

Sky+ is far from perfect and I would still buy a new Tivo (if launched in the UK) and I would prefer this product to have dual intergrated Sky Digital tuners.

However, the features of Sky+ I feel meet the needs of the average TV viewer quite well. Tivo I suspect is a little ott for the average UK man in the street - but not for us TV Holics :)

Automan.

[chrisrobbo]

At a guess I would say their must be at least 150,000 Sky+ boxes now in service in the UK comapred with 30 to 40,000 Tivo boxes.

According to this (http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/article/ds14412.html) article on digital spy the numbers over 300,000.

Anyway I think what we wall agree is that TIVO and Sky+ are far from the perfect PVR, and all would like to see a compilation of the two, but here's hoping.

How about,

A dual record and extra play tuner (triple tuner)
Season Passes
EPG for upto a month.
Archive facilty
Network capabilties, and even mobile phone programming.
Wishlists

etc. etc. etc.

But the only way we'll see this, is if Sky purchase the rights for TIVO's technology, to use in the UK, seeing that TIVO US are not planning on psuhing the UK market any further, and then using the technology to create a Sky++ system.

But we all know this won't happen, as Sky have stated in the past they are not interested in creating such a complete PVR, but are content with the functionality they have alreading.

[vassilis]

The moral first.... :-)

If you have a TIVO and thinking of SKY+ ... STICK with the Tivo!
SKY+ is still under development. Wait possibly another 6 months to 1 year until they sort it out.

Why? Well where do I start.....? First of all make sure you read
http://forum.digitalspy.co.uk/board/forumdisplay.php?f=35

All the recent horror stories are there. An Yes there are a lot of people who have problems with it and No I dont think that this is coincidental.

My experience so far:

Installed SKY+ as soon as they dropped the £10 sub for SKY Movies subscribers. The installation was a nightmare but I will not go into that. Apparently you may get a knowledgable and responsible installer but this is pot luck if you are going through SKY.


The system sort of worked for a while. I am saying sort of as it does not allow you to put a series link on anything you like... ONLY those series that SKY thinks that you may like. So SKY 1 series are ok but even then you cannot for example record all Stargate episodes. You have to be specific with the time slot. SO if SKY decides that you cant possibly want to record the 2am episode then they dont bother to put a series link there and you have to find the other timeslt where they have the series link on. If you are watching series on other minority channels you will have more problems.

Now for the crunch. The box does not crash so often but when it does, it does it big time!

What happens is that: it buffers the second tuner through its hard disk. So far so good. But if and when it crashes (say a minor drop of power), then the buffer gets locked and the box cannot unlock it!. What it does in that case is to think that you have no signal on tuner 2! Then it stops recording and in most cases stops showing the recorded listings as well (it actually thinks you have disabled the SKY+ functions ...more about that later). So it starts displaying a "call the SKY support centre message" when you try to record.

When you do call them, they take you through a reboot sequence and if that fails (and in most cases it does because the software is stupid enough not to remove the file lock) then they take you through what they call as 'housekeeping'. This works in most cases but it has the small side effect of erasing all of your recordings! The recordings are on the disk by the way, but the box initialises its table of contents and ... thats it! you have lost everything!

If the housekeeping does not work then they offer to replace the unit. Completely unecessary in most cases as it is just a stupid file lock but quite rightly they cannot expect you to remove the disk and delete the locked file.

Apart from the inconvenience of having to wait for an "engineer" to come along and replace your unit, when he/she does.... s/he replaces it with refurbised second hand one! Why? because they have so many of those! can you refuse that? Well you can try but read the above forum for the "fun" stories.

In any case when this happens you can take the disk off and either reformat it attempt delete the buffer files the disk is readable under Windows). Then everything else is restored. So if it happens to you, dont accept a swap! There is nothing wrong with the box. It just has crappy software!

The above has happened to me 3 times so far, since they switched on the dual recording function. If it hasn't happened to one of the other members I am glad for them, but you dont want me to describe my reaction when I lost my recordings.

And finally.... the software does 'forget' links and sometimes gets confused when two recordings overlap and you get "funny" error messages like "RECORDING FAILED" (no explanation). "PARTIALLY RECORDED" and the best one .. FAILED because of a CLASH...(clash? what clash? there are two tuners in the box!).

So... if you have a TIVO then stick to it and save (at least) £ 200 pounds for the time being. When they sort out the software, then think about it again. But even then, apart from the dual tuner and digital sound, the actual functionality of the user interface and the very limited series link mechanism makes it an inferior product for someone who has experienced TIVO..

Oh yes! I almost forgot! If you stop subscribing to the SKY movies/sport or world packages then you have to either pay 10 pounds a month or your box becomes an ordinary SKYBOX and .... you have no access to your recordings! Mainly because everything is recorded raw and if you dont subscribe to the origin channel at the time of play tehn the card will refuse to decode it! :-)


I hope this helps :-)

Vassilis

[chrisrobbo]

SKY+ is still under development. Wait possibly another 6 months to 1 year until they sort it out.

WRONG, Sky+ is not still under development, no more so than any piece of software on the market, they are contiuning to improve it.

As to your experiences, I have had no problems at all for over two years, so my good experiences cancel out your bad.

Regarding as to what happens if you cancel your subscription or downgrade, this is made clear when subscribing to sky+, so if you were not aware of what would happen, then that is just naive.

[gregh]

It's interesting to read all this stuff, still no clearer in my mind though! Having said that, Tivo is far from perfect, just read all the threads on listing/schedule errors!!

[vassilis]

I am sorry but your good experience does not necessarily cancel my experience.

I am glad that SKY+ works the way you expect it to work. But if you ever lose recordings you will understand what I mean.

Somehow though I would not call debugging ... constant imrovement.

By they way, I did not call anybody naive. Did I? I was merely pointing out (to somebody who is considering SKY+) that he will not have access to recordings if he downgrades. This is not obvious to a TIVO user as the recordings are made in the clear. So please dont patronise me.

Vassilis

[gregh]

btw vassilis I've lost/not had recorded a fair few programs on my Tivo, classic example being Touring cars last Sunday.

[Automan]

Originally posted by vassilis
I am sorry but your good experience does not necessarily cancel my experience.

I am glad that SKY+ works the way you expect it to work. But if you ever lose recordings you will understand what I mean.

Somehow though I would not call debugging ... constant imrovement.

By they way, I did not call anybody naive. Did I? I was merely pointing out (to somebody who is considering SKY+) that he will not have access to recordings if he downgrades. This is not obvious to a TIVO user as the recordings are made in the clear. So please dont patronise me.

Vassilis

Hi,
It does seem that your box is worse than the average.
It could be a dodgy box, could be due to poor dish installation / alignment or maybe the box is getting overheated due being in a confined space.

With over 300,000 Sky+ boxes in operation 24/7, I would assume consumers with major problems must be in the minority.

True, the software running on Sky+ is far from perfect and we can only hope future releases will reduce these problems.

Some commom problems with Sky+ are listed at http://www.hummer.co.uk/skyplus-bugs.htm

Automan.

[vassilis]

This may be the case but judging from the reports over at the SKY+ forums a lot of people do get the 17 minutes bug and the lnb lockups. By the way I do use the extra two feeds from the lnb on other receivers and the signal looks fine to me. I thought of overheating but the lock-ups appear to have happened after minor drops of power or a software crash.

Tivo can cope with those quite nicely and at worst will just reboot but SKY+ is not that intelligent.

But in any case I still think that they have not got the interface right yet especially the series mechanism.

They will probably get it right eventually but if I had to chose between Tivo and SKY+ today, I would have stayed with just Tivo. For the foreseeable future that is :-)

[ALanJay]

One of the things that inetrest me is that a number of the regulars on this board who also have Sky+ and who don't have problems have previously stated that they have UPS on their TiVo Sky Sky+ boxes and Vassilis comments give the impression that in his opinion a fluctuating power supply can cause problems.

I wonder if this is a real issue or just an "impression" from a few posters here and on Diigtal Spy.

[spons]

I have both Tivo and Sky+ and the sky has crashed on me 4 times since it was installed in February. It has also missed numerous recordings. One trick that happens occasionally is that Sky forget to put information about the end time of a programme. The result is 3 hours of constant recording causing various clashes and unrecorded programmes. I'm on a clear run this last few weeeks so lets hope it continues!

[Stroller]

Originally posted by spons
One trick that happens occasionally is that Sky forget to put information about the end time of a programme. The result is 3 hours of constant recording causing various clashes and unrecorded programmes. I'm on a clear run this last few weeeks so lets hope it continues!
I had that once about 3 weeks ago. Started a recording for 8:00pm, and it never stopped. When I looked at the box the next morning it was STILL RECORDING and to make space i'd lost the recordings already on the hard disk to make room for the 14hours I didn't ask it to record!!! :rolleyes:

[Steve_K]

Originally posted by Automan
To return to a recording you were watching all you have to do is press the play key twice.

No need to return to any sky menu or the Sky Guide.

Automan.

Thanks, I'll try that

steve

[Kgoodyer]

OK I have spent 3 hours looking in the forums, and its a simple question.

Panasonic SKY box went POP (Overheated, Refuses to decode white), upgraded to Sky+. Wife Left Me.

Just want to go back to TiVo, And Get wife to come home :)

(Actually Not That Bad - But We Both Love TiVo Interface)


So did TiVo ever release codes for Sky+ ?

KG

[sanderton]

Yes, Grundig 20018 I think.

[ozsat]

Sky+ has removed my 'Series Links' for 'My Family' and 'Jonathan Ross' - no idea why!

[sanderton]

Thge Top Gear SL apparently went walkies DURING THE RECORDING last night, causing it to be deleted even if you checked to see the record light was on.

Several divorces imminent judging by the DS threads, as people accused their other half of deleting it!

[kitschcamp]

The Casualty one regularly did that before Christmas. I gave up recording that on Sky+. As did a day of the French Open last week. BBC is useless with Sky+.

[Steve_K]

Originally posted by Automan
To return to a recording you were watching all you have to do is press the play key twice.

No need to return to any sky menu or the Sky Guide.

Automan. Yep it works thanks and sadly it will also crash a Sky+ if done too fast after a TiVo suggestion cuts in.

I'm beginning to suspect Sky+ of having memory leakage and so maybe I'll plan a reboot every Saturday morning while I'm doing my regular check of errors in the TiVo tribune database.

They're still both brilliant boxes though. I mean just how many lost recordings did we all used to have with VHS?

steve

[kitschcamp]

Originally posted by kitschcamp
The Casualty one regularly did that before Christmas. I gave up recording that on Sky+. As did a day of the French Open last week. BBC is useless with Sky+.

And for consistency, they've borked the series link for the Stella Artois, also. Grrr.

[Automan]

Pace Sky+ boxes have all recived new software today.

New Features
1. Possible support for larger drives (free space indicator now correct for non standard drives).

2. Sky+ Planner entries can be sorted (handy if you have lots of recordings) A-Z, Viewed, Recorded or Booked order.

3. Also claimed that the hard drives turns off when unit is in standby (making Sky+ EPA friendly).

4. Second room RF output can feed a TV with a different aspect ratio.

Automan.

[healeydave]

Weyhey, I might buy one now!!




... nah, only joking ;-)

[the_hut]

Originally posted by Automan
Pace Sky+ boxes have all recived new software today.

New Features
1. Possible support for larger drives (free space indicator now correct for non standard drives).

2. Sky+ Planner entries can be sorted (handy if you have lots of recordings) A-Z, Viewed, Recorded or Booked order.

3. Also claimed that the hard drives turns off when unit is in standby (making Sky+ EPA friendly).

4. Second room RF output can feed a TV with a different aspect ratio.



5. Introduction of a nag screen to tell you to connect the digibox to a phone line.

Consequently I lost all of my TiVo recordings until 8.30pm this evening as the nag screen needs you to "Press Back Up To Return." Has anyone any ideas as to how often this nag screen comes up or what triggers it? Having purchased the Sky+ box, I rather thought it was my choice as to whether I want it plugged in to the phoneline.

[Automan]

Originally posted by the_hut
5. Introduction of a nag screen to tell you to connect the digibox to a phone line.

Consequently I lost all of my TiVo recordings until 8.30pm this evening as the nag screen needs you to "Press Back Up To Return." Has anyone any ideas as to how often this nag screen comes up or what triggers it? Having purchased the Sky+ box, I rather thought it was my choice as to whether I want it plugged in to the phoneline.

All Sky digiboxes now have this "feature"

I understand it only happens the first time the box is powered up or after a reboot.

Of course the nag screen would not affect recordings made on Sky+ and because I have a triple sub I have to have my boxes connected to the phone line.

Automan.

[Automan]

Screendumps etc of the wonderful new features can be seen at the plusworld site http://www.plusworld.co.uk/news3.htm

http://www.plusworld.co.uk for main page.

Automan.

[Steve_K]

Originally posted by healeydave
... nah, only joking ;-)

You're missing out then.

[healeydave]

I don't think so

[Automan]

With Sky's latest software release when a box is placed in standby the hard drive is shut off.

Since the launch of Tivo a few years ago many threads have discussed hard drive life reliabilty in a device where the drive is on 24/7 and most have agreed the best option is to leave it running (no USA EPA certificate for Tivo boxes).

Anyway, it seems quite a few users are now reporting hard drive problems and I suspect those soles with drives that have been running for over a year are no longer spinning up when the Sky+ os requires it.

Automan.

[iankb]

I think the best option is to leave the drive running but stop writing to the live buffer. That will keep the drive rotating (so reducing stress due to temperature change and overcoming inertia), but reduce the wear due to head movement.

[Automan]

Sky have now added another feature fo those who like to record sports events.

Some details at http://www.homecinemachoice.com/cgi-bin/shownews.php?id=6928

Automan.

[Steve_K]

That looks like a useful feature and sadly another example of where Sky+ by working at the data stream level can outperform TiVo. The user interface of Sky+ is still rubbish but whatever the poll thread http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=197570 says, Sky+ is soon going to become a first choice recording solution.

steve

[ozsat]

Good old Sky+

Had a 'Series Link' set for Little Britain on Tuesdays.

All was fine and it recorded last night's.

But for next week it has decided that it will record 'Little Angels' instead - not only that, but then manually restarting Little Britain shows the SL is no longer an option! :rolleyes:

[ozsat]

btw: it's not the first time unwanted programmes have appeared in the Sky Planner - but is the first time I've seen what didn't get added.

[GarySargent]

Shhhh don't tell Automan whatever you do ;) :D

[the_hut]

Don't get me wrong; I have an utter dislike of Sky+ and think that TiVo is miles better. In fact TiVo is the best consumer electronics device I have ever purchased bar none.

But isn't it just a little bit rich to start pointing out the (undoubted) failings of the Sky+ Series Link option when Tribune's Season Pass data is also inadequate?

On the very series mentioned ("Little Britain"/"New Little Britain"), someone with TiVo setting a season pass with the first episode would have missed all five of the following episodes. As reported before, I have seen the same things happening on Survivor and Wife Swap to name but two.

[ozsat]

Originally posted by the_hut
Don't get me wrong; I have an utter dislike of Sky+ and think that TiVo is miles better. In fact TiVo is the best consumer electronics device I have ever purchased bar none.

But isn't it just a little bit rich to start pointing out the (undoubted) failings of the Sky+ Series Link option when Tribune's Season Pass data is also inadequate? No - it is more to point out that for every fault you can find with TiVo - you can find one on Sky+ or any other system.

The TiVo SP data for Little Britain is selecting too many episodes at present - but at least you get them!

Most of TiVo's data problems can be seen in advance - although you shouldn't need to check the data in advance.

But Sky+ seems to just delete things - often last minute - and there is no way of checking why.

Just waiting for Automan to responed :D



btw: all our live and rewind type viewing is via Sky+ - but we only trust TiVo to record the important stuff.

[Automan]

Sky+ program data is getting no better but is not getting any worse. The same I think can be said for the quality of series links which work most of the time on the major channels (including ITV3).

I do however think the quality of the Tivo EPG data is going down hill and gets a little worse every month :(

Automan.

[ozsat]

I think its worth pointing out as well - that many of the problems on Sky+ are caused by bad data as well.

But I disagree that Sky+ data is not getting worse.

I've had more problems during the past couple of months than ever before.

[ozsat]

WWE Smackdown - (failed to Record) :(

Good old TiVo got it OK.



Just noticed that the reason given was "schedule changed"

So Sky+ failed to record any of the 9pm showing because it was changed to 9.05pm start. :rolleyes:

[BW]

Even stranger...............it recorded alright for me:)

[ozsat]

I usually go for the late-night show - but has Sky+ had nothing to do - I set the 9pm version.

[mike9876]

Hi

Can anybody help me. My sky+ planner is showing I have 29% free space, but when i add up all my recorded programmes they add up 45% so I should have 55% free. How can I corrected this so the sky+ reads the correct amount of free space. It seem that this a problem sky+ are having.

The other question is how to change the hard drive, well I know how to fit a hard drive but what drives will be reconised and whats the largest size I can use and what is the largest size sky+ will recognise. If sky+ will only recognise a 40GB and I install a 120GB will it still use the other 80GB.

Thanks for anyhelp given.


Mike:)

[kitschcamp]

Had that with mine just this last week - it seems to happen after a few failed recordings...

Rebuilding the planner doesn't work; it needs a full reset to get the amount of free space back up to 100%, but of course you lose all your recordings in the process.

All this is with the standard 40GB drive, with other sizes I don't know.

[Automan]

http://www.carat-events.co.uk/pdfs/Mark%20Wood%20Presentation.pdf describes the impact caused by advert skipping (low it claims) and compares it with other products plus a mention of future Sky+ addons.

Item spotted by a Digitalspy person.

Automan.

[ozsat]

Good old Sky+ - it seems to think that Monday's 7.30pm episode of Coronation Street was the last in the series. :rolleyes:

[iankb]

Wishful thinking? :p

[Automan]

As we all know several mainstream programs have not been shown over the xmas / new year break.

Stargate
Stargate Atlantis
Battlestar Galactica

Did Sky+'s new enhanced Series link option cope with these okay - YES! :)

Series links are also better than Tivo EPG for shows like clickonline, The DVD Collection, Top Gear etc where the innaccurate Tivo EPG keeps recording the same episodes time and time again.

I know folks report all the growing Tivo EPG errors in the relevant thread but I think the only people it helps are fellow forum members who read that thread.

I don't think anyone from Tribune or whoever does the EPG now takes any note of any comments made.

Series Links still however are not perfect, but with millions of users relying on them, they can only really get better.

Of course, when Sky HD starts, I understand its EPG will be truly amazing and put the old Sky epg to shame.

Automan.

[the_hut]

Without being too much of a TiVo fanboy:

Did Sky+'s new enhanced Series link option cope with these okay - YES!

Surely "Sky +'s new, slightly closer to actually working Series link option" would be a more accurate description than "enhanced." Or is it fair to describe something as "enhanced" just because it now has marginally fewer bugs?

[ozsat]

I still have to reset 'The Invaders' every two weeks - as Sky+ can't seem to cope with it.

The Series Link seems to be the biggest weak point in the Sky+ system.

[Automan]

Yes, I must admit Series links still are poor (but better than have been) plus they are not all under the control of one provider which makes them worse.

So far, my Invaders one has been okay and have never had to reset / put it back.

Not confirmed of course but the EPG with Sky's new HD service will all go via a central portal to maintain a higher standard of data accuracy and of course true program start/end time keeping.

Automan.

[kitschcamp]

Yeah, trying to set something like The Dakar for 2005 is next to impossible. No series links at all on some channels...

[ozsat]

A couple of times I have found a 'Series Link' turns into the programme preceeding the one which had the link set.

So it records one or two fine, that sets up a recording for a different programme the following week.

[Automan]

Yes, each "series link" in the EPG has a unique identifier code.
These also sometimes applied to chain movies together e.g. Errol Flynn season on BBC2.

It gets more complicated on UK Gold and Sci-fi channel who show the same programs more than once a day.

e.g. The Pretender - Sci-Fi

The 13:00 showing needs one code and the 19:00 ones need another (else they would both get recorded).

However, sometimes two content providers seem to use the same unique code.

Thus when the Sky+ record engine sweeps the EPG once an hour (looking at the hard disc series link linkers) and at the start of a series link recording looking for matches it sometimes finds the same code from another channel and starts to record the wrong program.

With luck they will fix this by adding a channel identifier to this code so even if the BBC and Sky One used the same code it will no longer matter.

Automan.

[blindlemon]

Originally posted by Automan
Of course, when Sky HD starts, I understand its EPG will be truly amazing and put the old Sky epg to shame. It won't have to be "amazing" to do that :D:D

[Automan]

All,
Make sure when you get your new HD TV's that it has a HDMI input to make best use of Sky's forthcoming HDTV.

Also it must be HDCP (High Definition Content Protection) compliant.

http://www.homecinemachoice.com/cgi-bin/shownews.php?id=7347

Automan.

[Automan]

Those of you with Sky+ may have noted that recordings of Sky One now use a lot more disc space.

It seems Sky have increased the data rate of their "Flagship" channel.

First spotted by Digitalspy forum mebers who can no longer record 20hrs of Sky One on their standard Sky+ boxes.

Automan.

[GarySargent]

Originally posted by Automan
First spotted by Digitalspy forum mebers who can no longer record 20hrs of Sky One on their standard Sky+ boxes.

Hmmm are you sure he just hasn't lost some recording capacity because of that bug that has been lingering around like a bad smell for the last few years? :o

[GarySargent]

Originally posted by Automan
I don't think anyone from Tribune or whoever does the EPG now takes any note of any comments made.

I can state as matter of fact that they do.

[Automan]

Originally posted by GarySargent
Hmmm are you sure he just hasn't lost some recording capacity because of that bug that has been lingering around like a bad smell for the last few years? :o

I have set my box to record the X-Files on Sky One and FX289 and will compare results.

Also pleased to hear program listing errors are investigated.

However, I think my bedroom Tivo still says it is going to record about eight episodes of ClickOnline in one weekend.

Automan.

[GarySargent]

I would imagine that episode linking information is much harder to verify than simple "this programme is wrong, x is on not y". Tribune can't just assume everything reported is correct information.

[Automan]

Sky One recordings do indeed use more space and watching today's early Stargate epsiodes I can see no mpeg effects on any scene or fade in / out.

It may be my imagination but I think the sound in Dolby Prologic II sounds more "surroundy"

X-Files 56mins Sky One Used 3%
X-Files 66mins FX Used 2%

Automan.

[iankb]

With reference to Tribune's checking, I do find it irritating at the increasing number of times that the programmes on a +1 channel (e.g. E4 and E4P1) are treated as different episodes/series to the base channel. There is absolutely no excuse for not automating that correctly.

[Automan]

I have my Sky+ and upstairs Tivo set to record "One Foot In The Grave" on BBC1

Last night BBC1 were running nearly 20minutes late due to late breaking news about some trial in the USA.

Results were

Tivo - Missed most of the episode :(
Sky+ - Caught the whole episode with 6 minutes of next program :)

Both devices set to start -2 add +5

So yes dynamic changes to EPG data can indeed work and allow a recording to be recorded 100%

Automan.

[ozsat]

I have Doctor Who and Confidential set to record on TiVo and Sky+.

TiVo got them both - Sky+ lost first 10 minutes of Confidential!

[kitschcamp]

Whilst I had mine I found that recording 2 BBC channels at the same time gave the best chance of at least one either continuously recording for hours on end or not starting and stopping at the correct times.

[iankb]

I have my Sky+ and upstairs Tivo set to record "One Foot In The Grave" on BBC1 ...

Tivo - Missed most of the episode
Sky+ - Caught the whole episode with 6 minutes of next program15 - Love :(

I have Doctor Who and Confidential set to record on TiVo and Sky+.

TiVo got them both - Sky+ lost first 10 minutes of Confidential!15 All. :D

[Automan]

My Sky+ recorded Doctor Who (BBC1) and Confidential (BBC3) without any problems.

All my Tivo's seem to do is record "click online" hundreads of times a week (well several anyway).

Even when set just to keep one, it still just keeps recording them again and again due to the quality program guide data.

Now back to season 1 of "Branded" - Bitter Creek if anyone remembers....
http://members.tripod.com/~northfork/branded.html

Automan.

[sanderton]

All my Tivo's seem to do is record "click online" hundreads of times a week (well several anyway).

If you use my dedupe hack you can cut it to one a day automatically.

[ozsat]

My SP for Corrie disappeared this week - seems as if many other people lost lots of SPs on ITV1 this week.

At least with TiVo it can come back.

[Automan]

New third generation Pace Sky+ box (non HD) is out now with larger drive which some claim has reserved space for content to be downloaded by Sky.

Most of my series links seem to work okay and click online gets recorded once a week :)

Automan.

[cwaring]

All my Tivo's seem to do is record "click online" hundreads of times a week (well several anyway).
How many millions and millions of times have you been told not to exxagerate ;)

Anyway, a KUID and KAM 1 does the trick for me :D

[ozsat]

On Saturday evening - my Corrie SP was there because I had re-added it. Only other two SPs on Sky+ are Coast and Extras.

On Sunday morning I find that my Corrie SP has gone but as compensation - it recorded CBS News on Sky News. :confused:

This may also explain how it had recorded an odd overnight Sky News programme during the week.

I never record news programmes.

[PhoenixGB]

Hi all,

just joined the forum, i have had Sky+ from almost the day it was released and i love it, however it does have its drawbacks, HDD size for one - yes i know i can change the HDD but its not the way i wanna go.

I also have a DLINK DSM-320, briliiant piece of kit for the money! See the DLINK site.

Which i have conected to my main server and store divx and vobs from dvds on, works just fine...

So heres my question... i have seen various comments and posts saying that Tivo works with Sky+, i would like to be able to series link my fave shows and transfer from Tivo DIRECTLY to my Media Server, i know Tivo can transfer shows to HDD but how does it all work with Sky+ and where the hell am i gonna put all the damn remotes!! lol

Any help/advice or comments greatly appreciated.

NOOB - PhoenixGB

[cyril]

Hi all,

just joined the forum, i have had Sky+ from almost the day it was released and i love it, however it does have its drawbacks, HDD size for one - yes i know i can change the HDD but its not the way i wanna go.

I also have a DLINK DSM-320, briliiant piece of kit for the money! See the DLINK site.

Which i have conected to my main server and store divx and vobs from dvds on, works just fine...

So heres my question... i have seen various comments and posts saying that Tivo works with Sky+, i would like to be able to series link my fave shows and transfer from Tivo DIRECTLY to my Media Server, i know Tivo can transfer shows to HDD but how does it all work with Sky+ and where the hell am i gonna put all the damn remotes!! lol

Any help/advice or comments greatly appreciated.

NOOB - PhoenixGB

TiVo can be upgraded to 800GB, can have a network card and transfer shows to your PC. However direct show transfer cannot be discussed in this forum. Google for database of deals TiVo.

The TiVo can control Sky+ and change channels directly using its infrared blaster and wands.

Get a Harmony or MX-500 remote to control the lot.

[ozsat]

Seems a lot of people have had problems with Sky+ since the latest software update.

Some are reporting that all their recordings have gone - Chris Moyles said this as well on the air this week.

Lock ups and other problems are also being reported.

Looks as if the problems are with Pace V2.


I've not had problems with V1.