Sky+ Discussion

[mrtickle]

bignoise> I agree that it's fine if they are in the clear in the 800s.

I was talking about the possibility if them only being available via an interactive travesty. It would be dumb but it's being mooted just as the other better solutions are being mooted.

[iankb]

Originally posted by Automan:
Also slight rewind, after fast forward would also help (like TiVo does).

I seem to remember that TiVo took out a lot of patents related to PVR technology. I wonder whether some of TiVo's best features may fall under the umbrella of patentable features. I doubt that Sky would want to pay the license fees for some of the less essential features.

Just a (rather worrying) thought.

Ian.

[Automan]

Ian,
They could always describe slight rewind after fast forward as a software bug rather than a designed feature http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

P.S.
My Sky+ box is still working!

Automan.

[doubledrat]

I think as part of the TiVo setup, it should give you a reaction test. That way, the amount of rewind will be perfect. Of course then you'd have to log in when you swap remotes with the wife, so it would know who's reactions it was pandering to.

Bob
PS this is a joke in case you hadn't realised http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Matthew Finlayson]

I think it might need to be a bit variable than that. An attached breathalyser so that it will know when I'm trying to watch TV after I've got back from the pub and compensate for my reflexes might be needed as well.

[mrtickle]

doubledrat > some of the best ideas come from flippant remarks! I actually really like that idea.

[Automan]

Anyway, my second shiny Sky+ box is now playing up http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif

Just played back a movie, no probs. Then went to play Fantasy Island from chn 130 and perfect picture but no sound!

Back to live TV, okay. But when I tried chn130 no sound!

If you recall my last box used to loose sound on 310 & 312

Having surfed all the main channels my one has lost sound on 109,130,311,510 (checked 101-700)

And it will now only playback recordings with sound that were not recorded on those channels e.g. Airwolf from 124 or The Simpsons

I also kept one recoding of a movie which I have watched end to end but this now has no sound and could have been recorded on 311.

Thus when the fault occurs it seems to also prevent healthy recordings playing back (some link to subscrition checking or change of transponders?)

I shall now pull the mains plug...

As I suspected, all okay again! recordings without sound now have sound and sound on all channels!

What do you think of that for symptons of a fault / bug?

Automan.

[ozsat]

It sounds to me as if it is not the box that is the problem - but the signal.

I have never had such problems on my Sky+ box, but have had similar problems with audio etc. on my Digibox.

This has been during times when my dish was setup wrond by the Sky installer, and during severe rain.

Where you are located should not be a problem with dish size - but the alignment could be an issue.

What signal strength/quality does you receiver show? Where you are I would expect it to be almost full on both.

[Automan]

I get about 75% signal strength and 90% signal quality and no mpeg blocks.

Also when it 'plays up' items recorded okay with sound now playback without sound that were recorded on the effected channel numbers.

Automan.

[ozsat]

Do you mean that a programme played back OK - but now has no sound?

[Automan]

Yes!
The fault when it occurs will make a healthy recording playback with no sound if it was recorded on a channel that now has no sound in livetv mode (chn 109,130,311or510).
Recordings made on channels that still have sound in livetv mode playback okay.

The picture is always perfect but not even a crackle from the audio (on the effected channels).

Normal operation can be restored after the power has been cycled...

It's A VERY CONFUSING FAULT! But Very Interesting....

I have emailed Pace Technical! - Will I get a response?

Automan.

[HouseOfHaggis]

Automan, I have now experienced the "NO SIGNAL" failure.

It seems that once a failed recording occurs the whole box gets confused. I was looking at the descriptions of some programmes in my sky+ planner and it was giving me the descriptions of completely different ones !

It wouldn't function properly at all, it wouldn't play any of the recorded programmes and it wouldn't start recording anything new, so I pulled the plug. All working fine again now.

Unforunately all of the bugs in sky+ seem to be of a cascade nature, ie. once they occur everything screwes up until you reset the box.

Ross.

[BrianHughes]

That sounds like the difference between Linux and Windows to me.

[ChrisA]

OK I have had the "No Signal" problem as well! Same procedure to sort it out. I have not had the "no sound" problem Automan is getting BUT I have not tried recordings on his problem channels. Might give it a go to see if I get the same result, just to tempt fate.

[Automan]

Welcome all the the Sky+ No Signal club!
And I'm sure it's only a matter of time till you can join the No Sound club http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Automan.

[Marshy]

<flippant>
Personally. I'm quite glad to be in the No Sky+ club, judging by this thread...
</flippant>

[Reeves29]

Think i've found another Sky+ bug.

Failed recordings = lost disc space

Noticed i had 64% disc space left, but only had approx 3 hrs recordings. I went through each program, brought up the program info and noted the 'used' space (bottom right). It came to 12%, 12% + 64%= 76%!. Seem to have lost 24% somewhere, only thing i can think of is failed recordings still taking up space.

I didn't have any future recordings set or season links, so the lost space isn't put aside for future recordings.

Anyone else noticed this?

[Automan]

Reeves29,
Have you tried cycling the mains power?
I've noticed that after this things change in the Sky+ Planner menu (things appear / dissapear)!

If that's does not work you could also risk the "Housekeeping" option which deletes every recording from the Sky+ Planner.

I have noticed three other problems with Sky+

1st One is BAD
During the week I marked both Dr Who's (Sat & Sun) to be recorded.
Yesterday's recorded okay.
When I was going to bed last night I noted the entry for today's Dr Who was gone. I thought, human error, maybe I looked at it on TiVo. Anyway I put the entry in.

I just noticed now that it's gone 09:10 and Sky+ is not recording! And yes, the entry for Dr Who has gone again!

So not only is the series links **** it also can loose ordianry items that don't clash with anything!

2nd If you record the last program at night on FilmFour Sky+ will say "Part Rec" No Signal. At the end of the last program they go to a still image... I think Sky+ then thinks it's getting no signal after a couple of minutes with no picture content change!

3rd snag, the optical output.
When you put Sky+ in standby e.g. to watch ITV / VCR etc it still gives out a carrier signal from it's optical output and thus my Sony amp with auto input selection priority does not switch from optical to analogue inputs.
Also, the poor optical output is on in Sky+ which I assume will shorten it's life.

Automan.

[This message has been edited by Automan (edited 09-30-2001).]

[Tim Browse]

Originally posted by jont:
Hoping to get my Sky+ today from Heathrow Dixons (tax free !!)

Hey!

As part of my VAT free savings on the box I'll donate a tenner to the NY fund aswell...

Glad you said that...the mention of duty free shops always reminds me of this:


May I just say one thing about Duty Free shops before I go on to talk about the Psion? It's not that things aren't cheaper in the Duty Free shops they are. Infinitesimally. You do save a very small amount of money if you shop at them. Of course you can then lose a very hefty sum of money in fines if you fail to realise that you have to declare anything you've bought duty free to the customs when you come back into the country. The stuff is only really duty free if you intend to spend the rest of your life on an aeroplane.

So what happens when you buy stuff at the Duty Free shop for very slightly less than you would in the high street? It means that most of the money saved on duty is going into the coffers of the Duty Free shops rather than helping to pay for the National Health Service (and Trident).

So why did I buy my Psion at the Duty Free shop?

Because I'm a complete idiot, that's why.

<center>-- Douglas Adams</center>


Tim :-)


[This message has been edited by Tim Browse (edited 09-30-2001).]

[Automan]

Alan Jay, Stargate-SG1 daily reruns now have a "Series Link" on the 18:00 showing http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif Sky managed it in the end.
I assume TiVo still has the same description for every epsiode and thus records them all!

Alternate shots of inside a Sky+ box can be viewed at Inside Sky+ (http://www.hummer.co.uk/inside-skyplus.html) (3 images in preview and full 1.3megapixel mode)

P.S. My Box has been pretty good the last few days and now it can make my Blue "Dolby Digital" indicator light up on my it's really cool http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif
Thus I've hooked my TiVo up to my ITV Digital box which now sits on the shelf below Sky+

P.S. I was wondering when my box lost audio on 3 channels whether it thought those were transmitting in Dolby Digital and thus was trying to playback the Dolby datastream rather then the old conventional audio stream - thus no sound from live or recorded data on those channels?

Automan.

[Matthew Finlayson]

Actually no - when I went through and deleted all of the 6am entries last night, I noticed that they'd all got distinct descriptions.

[Maclynn]

I have my Sky+ TV out connected to TiVo Aux in.
If Tivo is recording and I try to play back a Sky+ recording TiVo records this instead.
Does anyone know a way of avoiding this.
Mike.

[Automan]

I have my Sky+ TV out connected to TiVo Aux in.
If Tivo is recording and I try to play back a Sky+ recording TiVo records this instead.
Does anyone know a way of avoiding this.

Mike,
Alas not, two PTR's dont make an ideal combination! It's very annoying when your watching a recording made with Sky+ and TiVo issues the IR to change channel and all of a sudden your watching something else!

Thus my TiVo box is now linked to my ITV digital box feeding another scart socket on my TV (only composite video). I may soon try linking the TiVo output to Sky+ VCR socket which should support RGB input.

P.S. Dolby Digtal Test Are Back On At The Momenthttp://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif
Automan.

[This message has been edited by Automan (edited 10-02-2001).]

[jont]

A little known travel feature is if you fly domestically now (as I do oftern from Glasgow to Heathrow or Gatewick) you can take advantage of the VAT free sales from the 'airside' shops in the Terminal ... It's not only display goods that they sell, if you get the sales code from a Dixons high street store for a product they can order that aswell ... I got my Tivo this way and saved £75 in the old days of £400 Tivos ...

It's not a lot off but it helps ... also with Dixons you can take it back to a high street store if anything goes wrong !!

[Maclynn]

Automan, I have changed to a variation of your setup.
I am using my old On box as TiVo's main feed now.
It is fine for me as I mainly record from the old BBC and ITV channels.
I use the Sky plus to record sat and conflicting prog's. then feed this into into TiVo's VCR socket. This gives RGB on both and lets me watch Sky+ recordings while TiVo records.
I hope this makes sense.
Mike.

[Automan]

Had one of my friends around today who was looking at purchasing either TiVo or Sky+

Anyway, I showed hime all the neat things that TiVo could do followed by Sky+

Being bold on Sky+ I demomstrated bookmarks, marking records form the search and scan banner etc followed by the new interactive stuff on Sky News, movie channels and then on Disney.
I then noted on 603 Thunderbirds was on so I thought I'd show the pause live equiv of TiVo.

Thus I paused it and started it playing a minute behind realtime.
I then said I give it something to think about and asked it also to record Thunderbirds.
Thus it then performing 3 x hard disc tasks at once...
1. recording thunderbirds to keep
2. recording thunderbirds for livetv pause delay
3. playing back #2 a minute late
All of course at broadcast quality...

I then said I show you bookmarks on livetv and thus pressed pause and red button.
Pressed play again for a while followed by pause.
I then pressed green for the bookmark menu but rather than getting the bookmark menu it changed to disney chn 614!

Tried this again making recordings on 106 and pressing green would always give you 614!
Then tried it after stopping the thunderbird recording - the same results.
I thought then I'd try the bookmarks on a saved recording and this worked okay and when I returned to livetv they worked okay as well.

A bug linked to the interactive stuff maybe? 614 was the last channel I tried the interactive on...

My visitor by the way was more impressed with Sky+ with it's ease of use and speed of operation. Plus of course he has a Digibox already and thus is 100% familar with the user interface.

Automan.

[Reeves29]

Originally posted by Automan:
P.S. Dolby Digtal Test Are Back On At The Momenthttp://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif
Automan.

[This message has been edited by Automan (edited 10-02-2001).]

Automan, are they only testing during the day? everytime i try the test channel its slient, i work 9-5 so i can't test during normal working hours. I have a Sony str-db940, can't wait to see that blue light http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif (that light is alot more distracting on the 940, than your 1070... git http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif )

[Automan]

Automan, are they only testing during the day? everytime i try the test channel its slient, i work 9-5 so i can't test during normal working hours. I have a Sony str-db940, can't wait to see that blue light (that light is alot more distracting on the 940, than your 1070... git

Test only seem to be from about 9:30 to 16:30 weekdays...

The 1070 may have a smaller blue light but it has no light at all on the volume knob which is not motorised and takes several turns to go from max to min.

I used to be able to judge the volume level before changing inputs with that red led... I really miss it http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif

Automan.

[Automan]

I've tried to repeat the livetv bookmark problem after an interactive channel and the "bug" can be repeated!

Those nice folks at Sky are going to try it out and if it's not my imagination they will fix - simple over the air software update http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

If you want to try and repeat it try this....

Goto 501
Press Red
When Active has loaded press Sky to quit it...
Select another channel e.g. 106
Press pause
wait a little while e.g. 30 secs
Press play
wait 30 secs or so
Press Pause
Press red to bookmark location
Press play
wait 30 secs or so
Press Pause
Press Green for bookmark menu

The last step makes my unit change to 507 or whatever interactive channel you pressed red on last!

To get the bookmarks to work properly again.
Select a recording in your Sky+ Planner
Play it
press pause
press green for the bookmark menu

Live TV bookmarks will work again unless your stupid enough to select interactive http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Slightly obscure bug, but indicates how the interactive stuff can upset other functions of your digibox.

Automan.

[Automan]

I now have a list of Sky+ Bugs At http://www.hummer.co.uk/skyplus-bugs.html made up of all the most common complaints so far (16 at the moment).

If you have one to add just email the link on the page.

Many Thanks
Automan.

[Automan]

Alan has got some wondeful news about new features / bug fixes coming to a Sky+ box near you...

See http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/displayarticle.php?id=3917 for his article....

I expect he is to shy to place a link himself http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Automan.

[DocPaul]

Anyone know if Sky are doing any Dolby Digital tests? Since I got my Sky+ box I've had the optical cable plugged into my Amp but so far it's just been a 48K stereo signal. I'd love to test the audio!

Paul H

[Automan]

Paul, see the UK General Chit-Chat Area at http://www.avsforum.com/ubbcgitivo/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&forum=UK+General+Chit-Chat&number=13&DaysPrune=2&LastLogin= for info...

Automan.

[ALanJay]

It has been encrypted since I spoke to the SKY+ boss about it yesterday. He obviously wasn't happy that they hadn't encrypted the sound and told someone to deal with it.

By the way he says he reads this forum (but doesn't comment) as he is also incharge of SKY's involvement in Tivo.

ALan

PS thanks Automan for postinmg the link :-)

[mrtickle]

Originally posted by ALanJay:

By the way he says he reads this forum (but doesn't comment) as he is also incharge of SKY's involvement in Tivo.


What involvement is that? The kind of involvement we need is technological, not marketing: a direct cable from TiVo to the digibox's serial port to change channels in a bulletproof manner. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif

[Speedbird]

WORD OF WARNING...

Just found out that if you record a box office event you will only be allowed to watch it once, without stopping, before SKY+ marks it as VIEWED and doesn't let you back into it!!

Set-up SKY+ to record the Hearsay Concert repeat (for the kids you undertand), it appeared in the planner and all was well, until I tuned into channel 770 before the recording was due to take place that was. Unknown to me SKY+ interpreted my 2 second viewing on channel 770 as having watched the whole concert and changed the listing in planner to VIEWED, even though the recording had not yet taken place. The box would not allow me to set-up a further recording and the £9.99 was lost.

Sky told me that this was the way the unit was designed to work and that it wasn't clever enough to know if the recording had happened and simply just marks everything as viewed no matter how short your viewing time was. They also advised that had the recording taken place and I then stopped the playback to make the dinner or walk the dog, then I would not be able to watch the rest of it!!!!! Sort of defeats the purpose of having SKY+!!! Also suspect the same thing will happen if you record a non-multiplay movie from box office, but not going to waste £3.50 trying it!!!!

Sky did re-book the concert for me, saying I could record it again that day, but in true fashion I never was able to. Don't tell them but TIVO got the full concert and it is still there in full glorious technicolour, PURE & SIMPLE!!!!!

No where is that SKY number, got a £10 refund to get!!

[This message has been edited by Speedbird (edited 10-09-2001).]

[Automan]

Most boxoffice events will let you play them as many times as you want in a 24hr timeframe from your first viewing.
Special events can override these standard rules.

When you view the event it should display the rules / how many hours remain before auto delete occurs.

I must admit the change of status the moment you watch 1 second of a recording is daft.

I'm sure they will improve this in a later s/w update.

Sky+ is only been out 40days - TiVo's been out a year and the user interface/features has not changed one bit http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif

Automan.

[GarySargent]

V1.5.1 shipped quite quickly after V1.5.0 was released - erm bit too quickly though as it brought many bugs. Lets hope the Sky+ update doesn't do the same!

Updates will hopefully be more frequent once we are on the same code base as the US!


------------------
Find out everything TiVo: http://www.tivoportal.co.uk
Have your say and vote for the features you want on your UK TiVo: http://www.tivosuggestions.co.uk
Got a bug? http://www.tivobugs.co.uk

[Maclynn]

Has anyone attempted a Sky+ drive upgrade yet, mine is filling up rapidly.
Mike.

[richard plumb]

I think I read somewhere that it was just a case of slapping a bigger drive in. Apparantly the Sky+ box comes with a blank hard drive installed, so the hardware puts all the necessary files on it when it starts up.

Worth a try if you have a spare disc lying around.

[ALanJay]

Yes - in talking to one of the SKY+ engineers there is nothing they are doing that would stop this but from the tests done there are issues of electrical power and spin up times that can cause problems.

[jont]

Originally posted by Maclynn:
Has anyone attempted a Sky+ drive upgrade yet, mine is filling up rapidly.
Mike.

See Automan's post and screen grabs earlier in this topic - upgarde went Ok for testing purposes but sky s'ware needs a little work I thought ...

[This message has been edited by jont (edited 10-10-2001).]

[Osy]

Originally posted by Maclynn:
Has anyone attempted a Sky+ drive upgrade yet, mine is filling up rapidly.
Mike.

My site details my findings on this issue. I still haven't been able to track down a drive that works perfectly (apart from another 40Gb drive), but have been contacted by others planning to try some soon.

Paul Osborn
Inside SkyPlus: http://www.uk.research.att.com/~pao/skyplus

[This message has been edited by Osy (edited 10-10-2001).]

[Automan]

I know someone has tried changing the disc and it seems the disc is fat32

See http://www.uk.research.att.com/~pao/

However, fat32 does not support big files (&gt;4gigs) unlike NTFS so I was wondering if it's like fat32 but not quite.

Also if it was fat32 would pace have to pay Bill Gates for it?

Automan.

[ALanJay]

I think that they already use one of the Microsoft embedded operating systems - according to some reports - so I;m sure this isn't an issue.

It may be a custom format based on FAT32 which is written when you reset the system but which is compatible from a reading perspective on other FAT32 capable systems. But to confirm all that one needs to know alot more about file systems than I do.

[mrtickle]

Originally posted by Automan:


However, fat32 does not support big files (&gt;4gigs) unlike NTFS

Er, where did you get the idea there was such a limit?

"The maximum possible number of clusters on a volume using the FAT32 file system is 268,435,445. With a maximum of 32 KB per cluster with space for the file allocation table (FAT), this equates to a maximum disk size of approximately 8 terabytes (TB)."
(see http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q184/0/06.ASP)

[Automan]

mrtickle,
I could not get that link to work but you may wish to try http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/en/server/help/choosing_between_NTFS_FAT_and_FAT32.htm which details the limts of fat32

I do digital video capture and I know for a fact you can't make a file larger than 4gigs on a fat32 disc.

Only NTFS has no file size limits.

Thus my theory that Sky+'s disc has a FAT32 variant.

Automan.

[cyril]

Originally posted by Automan:
I know someone has tried changing the disc and it seems the disc is fat32

See http://www.uk.research.att.com/~pao/

However, fat32 does not support big files (&gt;4gigs) unlike NTFS so I was wondering if it's like fat32 but not quite.

Also if it was fat32 would pace have to pay Bill Gates for it?

Automan.

4gb limit is not a problem for AV software as you just split the recording into smaller files e.g. MGI pure Diva splits them into 1GB files.

NTFS has a 16 exabyte limit, which is enough to record almost every TV program made by mankind! When are we gonna get an exabyte Tivo? In 20 years?

Gates gets a few $$$ for each Windows CE license that Sky+ uses. A FAT32 license would be included with that I guess.



[This message has been edited by cyril (edited 10-10-2001).]

[Automan]

Cyril,
On Paul's website at http://www.uk.research.att.com/~pao/skyplus/drive.html he mentions the filestructure and that his pc would not read the large file.

Thus I suspect Sky+ makes a file that breaks the 4gig limit by some tweak of the standard fat32 filesystem.

Drive data fragmentation is also of interest. TiVo uses a strange transactional filesystem (if I recall) to avoid these problems.

How will a normal 40gig hard disc cope after lots of made/deleted recordings - defrag for Sky+ maybe http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Automan.

[mrtickle]

Originally posted by Automan:
mrtickle,
I could not get that link to work but you may wish to try http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/en/server/help/choosing_between_NTFS_FAT_and_F AT32.htm (http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/en/server/help/choosing_between_NTFS_FAT_and_FAT32.htm) which details the limts of fat32

I do digital video capture and I know for a fact you can't make a file larger than 4gigs on a fat32 disc.

Only NTFS has no file size limits.

Thus my theory that Sky+'s disc has a FAT32 variant.

Automan.

Ah, I see where you were going now. Limit on the size of a single file, not total partition size - sorry http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Interesting (but typical) that one half of MS can't agree with the other - your page says that the FAT32 partition limit is 2TB but the knowledge base page said 8TB http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Having said that, why do you assume that Sky+ doesn't currently split recordings into 4GB chunks? It'd only need a bit of buffering on playback after all. And it would only be a problem for very long (4 hours?) recordings.

[Maclynn]

Let's hope TiVoMad buys a Sky+. Then all our problems will be solved.
Mike.

[Maclynn]

I was bored this morning so I tried a little experiment. I had an old Quantum Fireball 6 gig disc, complete with Win 98 and a load of old files lying about. I put this in as a replacement for the Sky+ drive.
After waiting for ages for the Sky box to format it I was finally able to get it out of standby.
All appeared well apart from there being no plus functions.
I did a reset through the menu which put it back into standby. Switched on again and all was well.
I filled the disc with recordings (only about 3+ hours because it is a small drive), and tried all the replay functions out. It seemed to behave perfectly.
Now I have to save the pennies to try a larger drive out.
The other thing I wanted to try was to see if the software supported slave drives, doubtful but worth a try, but I don't have the correct power cable yet.
I hope this encourages other people to experiment.
Mike.

[Automan]

Mike,
I may try changing the disk in my unit for a 20Gig I have.

Does the percent indicator system to seem to adjust correctly for the different capacity hard disk?

e.g. with the 6gig disc does it say a movie will take 60% or so of the space?

I have noted the examples in the Pace manual indicate recordings using much more space (or the prototype machines had a smaller disc).

If it does get the math correct I may order one of these 80gig Maxstor drives from Simply and try - if it does not work maybe I can put it in TiVo instead...

P.S. Have you tried copying the files from your 6gig test disc back onto your pc's normal format disc... Do the files copy without error? e.g. general disc failure reading drive x ?


Automan.

[Maclynn]

Automan,the percentage gauge seemed to be fairly accurate for the size of the disc but I believe people have had poor results with larger discs.
I did try to copy the files to my computer but it would not let me, I can't remember the message I got.
You can open them from the Sky+ drive but they are of a type I don't recognize.
I suggest you only try a larger drive if you can make use of it in TiVo or your P.C. if it wont work in the Sky box.
You were right about my S video lead. I re-soldered it and it is fine, thanks.
Mike.

[Automan]

Mike,
I could not get my 20G drive to play with - gone missing http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif

Thus I've ordered a DiamondMax 540X 60GB IDE 3.5HH 2MB 5400RPM 9.6MS U100 NS (4K060H3) from http://www.buy.com for £103.48 delivered (next day).

Thus I'm expecting 50% more recording space http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

If it does not work in Sky+ I will maybe try in my PC or TiVo.

Automan.

[Maclynn]

Good luck with your drive swap Automan. Let us know how you get on.
One other topic I have thought about is the series link problem.
As a work around couldn't Sky simply enable it for everything. That way we could use it for all series and if used by mistake on a single show it wouldn't matter anyway as there would be nothing to record.
Mike.

[speedway]

Thanks for all the info guys. I will now not be getting Sky Plus. It sounds like Tivos evil twin.

I'll be sticking with trusty Tivo. Unless it goes bust, that is.

------------------
Just go forward in all your beliefs, and prove to me that I am not mistaken in mine.

[TivoUK]

I have been away on holiday for 3 weeks and the Sky + appears to have owrked fine while I was away.

My nephew called round and added shows that I wanted recorded each week that did not have a series link.

Now, to check the Tivo... http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

[Automan]

VCR style timer will soon be added to Sky+ for items with no series links (sounds a bit like TiVo's manual record option)!

It's now been two weeks since my TiVo's been out of standby - I know it still okay as sometimes the led's light up and my "Caller Display 1500" says "Phone In Use" - Some gadgets know when the phone line is in use http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

I suspect TiVo may be to clever for the mass uk market?

Automan.

[pauljs]

Short review in The Sunday Times



Sky+ seems like a marriage made in heaven, offering the chance to receive digital broadcasts and record them straight to hard disk. The box is simple to use, all the controls being screen led. Live television can be paused, recordings can be programmed seven days in advance, and the planner will record all shows in a series automatically, cleverly differentiating between new episodes and repeats. Recorded programmes have the same picture quality as live viewing, but you may decide that £300 and £10 per month is too much for a glorified video recorder


What hope is there for these people still stuck on VHS

[Automan]

VHS - What's that http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Sky seem to be making real progress with their Series Links with no hickups for quite a while.

My Box now Series links that work for the following...
All of which have been automatically inserted.

http://www.hummer.co.uk/images/slink.jpg

Of course Sky+ 'Series Links' know the difference between 1st runs & reruns.
Thus I have two 'Series Links' for Stargate and The Simpsons.

Automan.

[TivoUK]

Good news on the extra series links, first time I have seen any non-Sky 1 ones listed. Will have a look at my shows when I get home Friday night. Pity it was not added before I went on holiday, had to have my nephew call in each week I was away to add shows to be recorded.

We appear to have similar tastes in TV shows also http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Can I brag I was the first episode of ENTERPRISE while in Maui a few weeks ago?? http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

Sorry, could not resist http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by TivoUK (edited 10-16-2001).]

[Automan]

TiVoUK
Was "Enterprise" in widescreen?
Granda Plus also have "Series Links" http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Anyway, my 60Gb drive has now arrived...
Comparing its spec with the original it's pretty close.

Old drive
4500rpm
Power on to drive ready ~8secs
Power peak &lt;8.5w
Access time average 12ms
Full stroke 24ms

New drive
5400rpm
Power on to drive ready 7.5secs
Power peak 5.2w
Access time average 12ms
Full stroke 24ms

Thus tonight I shall give it a try (time permitting)
I would assume the only grey area is the actual disc format?

Automan.

[TivoUK]

Yes, ENTERPRISE was in w/s but UPN show it in letterbox.
As there is little chance of Sky showing it w/s lets hope the BBC get hold of the series soon.

[Automan]

Yes, I've done it...
My box now is operating on a 60Gb drive...
The box issued no warnings or other errors on start-up.
This was a virgin new drive straight out of the sealed bag into Sky+

I did run the housekeeping option to be on the safe side.
At that point it restarted - bad news you think?
No, NEW SOFTWARE http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif
Now Model 5.6.3
Sky+ 1.21.A

Before swapping the disc I made note of the space estimated for two recordings

1. Alien Nation 7% before 5% after upgrade
2. Very Bad Things 11% before 8% after upgrade

At the moment it's recording and playing back the live buffer and all seems okay - then to box it up and put all my 'series links' back.

Automan.

[Automan]

Doh!
I should have read Paul's page on his test more carefully...

I did not note the free space indicator....
With an empty disc it says 25% free space http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif

I shall try and fill the thing up and see what it does.

Automan.

[Automan]

Again as Paul noted the bar graph of free space / space used by a recording seems correct - it's just the numeric display of free space that’s wrong - it was down to 8% when I left for work and it was recording all night and is set to record things all day.

The question is will it start deleting stuff when the numeric value approaches 0% or will it accurately know how much space remains - I should know tonight!

Automan.

[Osy]

I noticed the software update this morning. We now get 'DELETING' message when you delete a recorded program. So I guess they are working their way through that list. It seems that Sky will give us more incremental improvements, rather than Tivo's rare major revisions.

------------------
Paul Osborn
Inside SkyPlus: http://www.uk.research.att.com/~pao

[Automan]

I've just tried looking at the original disc with a Windows 95 dos disc.

It shows space but no files
Tried with Ghost 6.5 and it reports file size errors.

Ghost would let me do a total disc image but it would need 38gigs of free space http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Thus I think the disc format is like fat32 but not quite.

Automan.

[Osy]

I was able to read the disc easily under Win2k. From reading around it seems likely that it uses Fat32X, an extension to Fat32 with improved supoport for large drives. I suspect that Win95 is a bit too old.
If you can't read them yourself, but want to take a look at the smaller system files on the disc, let me know and I'll send you them. I can't of course send any copyright material, as Win2k claims those files are unreadable.

------------------
Paul Osborn
Inside SkyPlus: http://www.uk.research.att.com/~pao

[paulpenny]

Sorry to move away from the technical discussions.

I had the "happy" http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif experience of my Sky+ box turning up for installation and then seeing it disappear again because the Sky installer couldn't/wouldn't touch the dish which is on my chimney. Of course, telling them this in advance, to try and avoid the problem didn't make any difference!

First date for an install by their specialist team was November (I think this year).

My usual satellite installers cannot still get hold of the Sky+ boxes. Nor can any other installers at the moment.

I have, therefore, decided to "create my own" by installing a second Sky box for dedicated recording from my Tivo. (I know it is not the same, but I like the Tivo and so I would be happy.)

My problem is that the Sky dish requires an adaptor which allows it to hold the quad lnb. Does anyone have any idea where I might get one of these? I already have two sky dishes - one for the main room and one feeding the family room - so another is not really possible.

Anyone with some ideas?

Thanks

------------------
Paul

[Maclynn]

Paul, why not go into Currys or Comet and pick up a Sky+ box. They come complete with the Quad LNB and dish adaptors.
You can fit it yourself and save £50.00 or get an independant to do it.
The stores around here have plenty of stock.
Mike.

[jont]

Paul

Can you not pick up a Sky+ box at your local Dixons/Currys and tell them that you have a non-standard installation so you don't need them to book it with Sky ... pay your money, wlak out and then give to your local friendly installer who will put it up for 'whatever' ... ???

That's what I did and was fine...

rgds

J

ps - if you can get the quad lnb that's in the box it comes with a bracket.

[dsloper]

Hi, May i ask a few questions about installing SKY+ yourself.

1. Can you use the standard coax cable as you can for normal sky, or do you need special cable.

2. How do you activiate sky+ subs if you install it yourself?

MTIA

Darren

[paulpenny]

Originally posted by Maclynn:
Paul, why not go into Currys or Comet and pick up a Sky+ box. They come complete with the Quad LNB and dish adaptors.
You can fit it yourself and save £50.00 or get an independant to do it.
The stores around here have plenty of stock.
Mike.

Aaagh! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/mad.gif I know this is going to sound very thick, but I didn't know that you could do that. I thought that they just dealt with the sale and then the Sky installer brought the box with them when they came to install.

On the bright side, if I had known that I would not have bought a Tivo, so some good has come of it!

The question now is do I still buy Sky+ or carry on with my dual Sky receiver/Tivo setup.

Cost wise I would think it is OK.

Tivo £249, Sky receiver £89 (on Yahoo Auctions),secondary Sky sub £12 pm, Tivo subscription £10 per month, cost of quad lnb install etc.

Sky+ £299, subscription £10 pm, cost of installation etc

OK, Sky+ is a bit cheaper, but then it doesn't have quite the same functionality as the Tivo.

Now where can I get that quad lnb........?



------------------
Paul

[jont]

Darren

Yes co-ax is the same - there is a special twin-core that some installers use for a new install, but mine just slung a new single run to the lounge for the twin feeds to sky+, I then got another two single runs to the bedrooms whilst he was there ...

I then rang Sky CS and got my sky+ subs added to my direct debit - took about 5 mins....

[Automan]

CT100 single sat cable or CT63 twin co-ax cable

The CT63 has a maximum run of 30 metres CT100, 100 metres

If your existing install was done by a proper engineer it should have be done in CT100 some 'cowboys' have be known to use ordinary TV UHF co-ax which is not really suitable.

Automan.

[This message has been edited by Automan (edited 10-17-2001).]

[dsloper]

Thanks for your quick responses. I take it the sky+ will accept my card, or do I need the sky+ equivalent of the new install menu on sky. I'll try and clarify that statement : Do I need to marry the card to the box, or do I just plug my card in and go.

Again, MTIA

Darren

[Osy]

I had an independant fit my Sky+ upgrade, but handled registration myself. I phoned the number on the Sky+ box, and selected the 'active my Sky+ subscription' option at the menu. Spoke to a nice lady who pointed out that because they have not recieved a call from my box, they could not activate it. So had to hang up, perform New Installation option in hidden menu to cause box to phone Sky, then phone Sky myself to activate.
Actually had to call back an hour later as Sky+ features had not activated and I was impatient. They resent the signal and it worked straight away.


------------------
Paul Osborn
Inside SkyPlus: http://www.uk.research.att.com/~pao

[Automan]

My 60Gb Sky+ box has survived its first day and seems to have recorded everything asked (non-stop almost for the last 20 hrs at broadcast quality) http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

The free disc space indicator that said 8% at this morning now reports 47%

All the recordings report using less percentage so I assume most of Sky+ code knows about different disc sizes with a 28 min rec registering as 1% of capacity.

It also looks like the software upgrade has fixed the copy to tape option as all items now indicate this okay.

See http://www.hummer.co.uk/disc-change.htm for a brief install guide http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Who wants to try a 80Gb drive?

Automan.

[This message has been edited by Automan (edited 10-17-2001).]

[jwestoby]

I recently got Sky+ and was wondering about getting a Tivo too (to record the TV out), but since they seem disinclined to support Sky+ (and I don't want to pay £10 for another sub) I decided not to.

If Sky+ is going to be able to record two signals (hardware can, since it can have a EPG recording and live pause at the same time) then there's even less reason for a Tivo!

My wish list -


(I also installed my own box to check it seemed OK, but then left it to the installer to activate - just in case they were going to be awkward. It really is trivial if you've got Sky to start with.)


------------------
Jim Westoby

[jwestoby]

As I was saying before my message sent itself (hit the tab key while on 'autopilot' - mea culpa).

My wish list -
Dual record
Timed record (for radio)
Bigger disk (I'll do it when someone has tried the Maxtor 80GB!!!)
Restore AutoView function (I miss it)

Much less so -
VCR dump ONLY through VCR socket (but effectively you get two subs)
15 second go back (a la Tivo, but this would require it to always record which isn't desirable)
Simple 'Series Link' which just uses the program name (not sure how useful getting 6 repeats would be though)


One (really picky) crticism I do have is getting to the Sky+ planner screen, it means shifting the remote in my hand (TV Guide, 0) - unless I'm missing a shortcut [I didn't get a manual in my box so I'm running blind, yes I've asked for one, several times]. When I get around to it I'll program my RC5000 to do it!

I don't really want Tivo's suggestions, if only because it would use even more time (which none of us have!) - to paraphrase someone's sig on this site, "it's only TV".

Overall, even although it's frozen on me a few times, I think this kit is a definite yes. I like it, my spouse likes it and when ITV hits Sky the VCR is out of here (except as an occasional backup).

It is difficult to quantify how EASY it (Tivo & Sky+) makes things, this is a problem of marketing. But I've never seen anyone say they'll go back to tape no matter how much they bitch about one or the other.

I never keep recordings (just time-shift) so a writable DVD just isn't on my shopping list.


Think I'll go look at the EchoStar PVR too .........


------------------
Jim Westoby

[Automan]

Jim,
Dual record - Soon http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif
Timed record (for radio) - It would be nice, perhaps the manual timer option (when released) will permit?

One (really picky) crticism I do have is getting to the Sky+ planner screen, it means shifting the remote in my hand (TV Guide, 0) - No shortcut but you could create a RC5000 key that does it http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

I was also thinking of making my pronto/rc5000 have a button that when pressed issued the rewind command - delay - play so Sky+ starts playing at the correct point after commericals (Like TiVo does).

Automan.

[This message has been edited by Automan (edited 10-18-2001).]

[Automan]

Today my 60Gig Sky+ box ran out of disc space (had it set to manual disc space management).

Anyway it recorded a total of 2,216 minutes, which is just under 37hrs in 37 recordings.

The numeric free disc space indicator also now seems to give the correct result.

All the programs it recorded (with length & space used is listed at http://www.hummer.co.uk/disc-change.htm near the bottom).

Automan.

[Guinan]

Great work Automan.
It's efforts like yours that restore my faith in human nature...I'm even thinking of coughing up the £10 a month sub myself now that it is hackable to some extent.

Like you said...anyone brave enough to try it with a larger 4800rpm disk?

Ian Guinan

[paulpenny]

Originally posted by jwestoby:

If Sky+ is going to be able to record two signals (hardware can, since it can have a EPG recording and live pause at the same time) then there's even less reason for a Tivo!

[/B]

I am not looking to start an argument http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif but I am not sure that I agree that Sky+ is a replacement for the Tivo anymore than any other Satellite/PVR combo.

I agree that it is a great product and that the fact it can use the Sky EPG to simplify recording makes it very easy to use, but it is still fundamentally different to the Tivo (that is not better or worse, just different).

Why? Because of the "learning" capabilities. Sky+ does not fill your hard drive with programs it thinks you might like, it just records what you tell it.

Some may see this as a benefit. Personally, I like finding that there are programmes available to watch that I like and didn't know were "on"

Just my opinion http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif



------------------
Paul

[Automan]

Paul,
TiVo sure is smart, and maybe to smart for what the average Joe in the street wants.
Plus with virtually no advertising or in store displays not many people are likely to buy or even realise what they can do.

With an influx of $ from Sony and a nice UK Sony badged box / marketing I suspect they will do better (more so if version with integrated STB's are launched).

However, at present I suspect new sales for TiVo in the UK must be very low.

Automan.

[paulpenny]

Automan,

My comment was inspired because I noticed a number of comments bracketing Sky+ and Tivo together and implying that they were the same. I feel this misses the whole point about the Tivo.

I agree that most people in the UK would be delighted with the simplicity of the Sky+ system, particularly when compared to the traditional VCR.

The fact that take up of the Tivo is poor is due to Tivos failure to get their message across effectively. Now that Sony are involved that may change - I hope so.

I would love to see a Tivo with a built in Sky box ( or, I suppose, a Sky+ box with Tivo software! - perhaps more likely?)

In the meantime I have acquired a Sky+ box purely for the spec - i.e. Svideo & DD outputs. I can now let my old Sky box feed my Tivo exclusively. Of course, I can change to Sky+ inplace of Tivo at anytime if I think it is worth it.



------------------
Paul

[jwestoby]

Hi Paul, no argument here (and certainly never any hard feelings to another's point of view).

I agree with you that the learning is Tivo's killer. I often have little to watch because I only record what I know want to see.

If the Sky+ had the same sort of thing I'd probably use it (technology sort of creeps up on you) but since I'm used to VCR's I don't miss it - yet!

It must be VERY difficult to sell something which has no OVERT advantages. Probably once you're used to it it's diffcult to imagine life without (Tivo as a class A drug?).

I thought about buying a Tivo (who said propellor head?), still am to be honest. But am not sure how useful it's suggestions would be when it's not the 'centre of attention'.

It's not massive money so I might buy one (you would be horrified at the number of 'toys' slumbering in my attic) but even so I'd want a bigger disk if I'm using it for suggestions and although I can do it easily enough it's something else to HAVE to do.

For me, and this is just for me, at the moment Tivo has enough minuses to make me pause -
Doesn't like [my] Sky+ box (bad Tivo!)
Want a bigger disk - now!
Suggestions may be flaky if it's not being used all the time
Some talk (this forum) doubting Tivo's future
(I sincerely hope this is NOT true, this technology is fun)
Misses the ends of programmes
(due to the schedules and no auto padding, I know)

I don't doubt it will come but at the moment come 20:00 on Monday I'm WATCHING 'Andromeda'. When I trust the box(es) more that may/will change and I'll watch 'My TV'.

What I DO know is that I'll be buying a Tivo a LOT sooner than a [1 hour - hah!] recordable DVD!


I enjoy reading about what other people do/have done/think about the kit they have (I want a plasma - but much dosh, give me yours now!!!) and their experiences.

I thank eveyone, moderators and contributors, on this (and other boards I frequent) for their honest, considered, well intentioned thoughts.


------------------
Jim Westoby

[topbanana]

Originally posted by jwestoby:
Doesn't like [my] Sky+ box (bad Tivo!)

Am I going mad, or did I not read that the Sky+ codes were added to TiVo very quickly after the newer box was relased? http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/confused.gif

Some talk (this forum) doubting Tivo's future
(I sincerely hope this is NOT true, this technology is fun)

Nah .. they've just announced a *huge* deal with Sony. The future's bright and the stock price is up 40% on the last two days.


------------------
Top Banana

[jont]

Jim

What is it about (your) sky+ box that tivo doesn't like ??

My tivo is perfectly happy with my sky+ box - except when it goes into standby ... bad sky+ !!

[Maclynn]

Well done TiVo for sorting the Sky+ codes so quickly.
The major, and I suspect insurmountable, problem I found was that it is impossible to watch a recording from Sky+ and record on TiVo at the same time. You just re-record the Sky+ output.
I switched to using TiVo to record only from an old On Digital box instead.
Mike.

[JamesM]

Originally posted by Automan:
My 60Gb Sky+ box has survived its first day and seems to have recorded everything asked (non-stop almost for the last 20 hrs at broadcast quality) http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

I think that probably entitles me to call my bet with Gary! Will Gary be updating his comparison chart?

Well done Automan.

Mind you, I am more than happy with my 80gb plus 60gb TiVo. You still have a way to go before you are able to match that.

James

[Automan]

A digitalspy forum member is going to fit a 80Gig drive next week and that should yield 50hrs of broadcast quality picture & sound http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

I'm happy with my 37hrs http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Automan.

[oferlaor]

Automan,

Am I to understand that all you did was just plug in the unformatted hard-drive & that's it?!

What RPM drive did you use? does it matter?

------------------
Cheers,
Ofer LaOr

[Automan]

Ofer LaOr,
Yes, just plug an unformatted drive in and the Box does the rest http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

However, other forum members have tested some other drives they don't work.

It seems the Digibox's 'BIOS' only allows a short time for spin up.

The original drive is I think 4,500 rpm but it seems happy with 5,400 Maxtor Diamondmax Drives (Just like folks spend hours installing in TiVo's).

I used a Maxtor 60Gb 4k060h3.

Automan.

[TivoUK]

Did any one else here have problems with Sky yesterday (Sunday) at all??

I came back to watch Sky News in the early afternoon and could not get a picutre - the banner just sat there for ages. trying to view other stations had about a 50% success rate. Pulling the plug on the box did not fix it so I left well alone.

Came back a few hours later and all appeared to be well again.

[Automan]

Yes,
Sky have been playing with the EPG data again. It seems they have been trying to make the program information menu work for more than the current program you are watching. Also so the last channel audio will be available while on the Sky menu's (to replace the old EPG music).

Why they don't use a test copy of the system I don't know.

Perhaps they just like their 6million customers to ring the helpdesk?

Automan.

[Automan]

A Digitalspy forum member has now upgraded his Sky+ to 80Gb which I estimate will yield about 50hrs http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Automan.

[BW]

And I am member here as well Automanhttp://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif but do not post much.

[Guinan]

Which drive did you use for 80GB?
(or do you have a link to where you posted)
Thanks,
Ian Guinan

[Automan]

Try http://forum.digitalspy.co.uk/board/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=35&daysprune= under Hacking Sky+

I think BW used the same 80Gig drive that's popular for use upgrading TiVo's.

See http://www.maxtor.com/products/DiamondMax/DiamondMax/DataSheet/D540X_datasheet.pdf

And
http://www.maxtor.com/products/DiamondMax/DiamondMax/QuickSpecs/42089.pdf

Both Acrobat Documents

BW, Whoops did not spot that your also a TiVo person http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Automan.

[This message has been edited by Automan (edited 10-22-2001).]

[BW]

Yep spot on Maxtor Pt No 4K080H4 - DIAMONDMAX 540X 80GB IDE 3.5HH 2MB 5400RPM 9.6MS U100 NS here (http://www.gb.buy.com/stores/dept.asp?str=21&orderby=1&deptid=10611) page 6 of 9

Whoops Automan has added more info since I drafted this.

Automan yes Tivo as well - its sitting in the corner waiting its turnhttp://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by BW (edited 10-22-2001).]

[This message has been edited by BW (edited 10-22-2001).]

[derek c]

Today i called into the new comet store in harrogate, eventually a member of staff came along, how can i help you sir, do you have a tivo i said, no sir they have been withdrawn they were not selling, oh well do you have a sky+, yes it`s the silver one over there, i looked and there was the latest pace stb the facia did not sport the telltale + after sky, when i mentioned this he said the early ones didn`t.He was called away by another member of staff to save him more embarrasment.Within minutes suprise suprise another sales rep appeared, can i help you sir, yes, do you have a sky+ box i can see, no sir they are asrare as rocking horse s---,what would you like to know sir, well how much are they, there £349 sir that includes £50for fitting, i will fit it myself, you cannot sir, can i buy one and take it away, yes sir it will still cost you £349 even if you install it yourself. At that point i left the store. Anyone else have a simular tale to tell
Derek

[Automan]

Derek,
I think Comet & Dixon’s both play the safe sales line, which is to say you pay £50.00 to install.

Most consumers don't have the required skills/equipment to run the twin cable to their dish or check for accurate alignment after disturbing the dish.
It’s a lot easier and safer for them than having someone get it home and then not really know what they have to do next.

I do understand Sky+ boxes are in short supply and sales are higher than original estimates.

Also now a shortage of 40Gb quiet drives http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Automan.

[TivoUK]

Automan,

I ordered a 80 gig. Maxtor from ebuyer to go in my PC at home from this link: http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/products/index.html?action=c2hvd19wcm9kdWN0X292ZXJ2aWV3&product_uid=25161

but since then I am buying a new PC (very good deal) and the hard disc could be spare.

Is it the right type to go into my Sky + box??

[jwestoby]

When I got my Sky+ from Comet (Hatfield) I saw a card, asked at the desk and they went and got (the last) one from the back - £200 just gone like that. I thought I'd order it and then the installer would bring it (he said it saved the problem of installers turning up with the wrong/no kit).

No mention of installation (still no manual - argh) just ring the number on the box.

The installation was paid to the installer (logical), mine didn't like the twin coax (ditto me) so he ran another bit of string alongside.

Basically I think Comet et al are just pleased to see the back of you.


------------------
Jim Westoby

[Automan]

TivoUK,
Yes, That's the drive BW has used and I think he is still filling it up http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Sky+
Does not come with an installers manual just a normal user manual.
Dish alignment is vital to correct operation and changing the LNB without disturbing alignment (if still aligned 100%) is tricky. The quad LNB also if I recall is not as sensitive as some more modern single LNB's

Also if after it's up and running and you have a problem Sky will most say it's your DIY install that's causing the problem.

Automan.

[BW]

Yep that is the drive I used.

I have finally managed to fill it up (Sky+ on almost continuous record for over 2 days without a glitch)and the capacity was - 48hrs 18 mins. Be aware that whilst the graphical representation of used/remaining space stays fairly accurate, the numerical % was all over the place.

[TivoUK]

Thanks to both of you for the reply.

Now I have to decide the best use of the hard disc http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif

Trouble is, I used both the Sky+ and Tivo to record 3 weeks worth of TV while I was away on holiday. I came home from that on the Saturday, then away to Glasgow on the Monday for a week at work. I set them both to record shows for that week.

I have fallen WAY behind (not seen a single Band Of Brothers / Blue Planet yet!!) and do not see the situation getting any better until I am off over Xmas.

Trouble is, I add more shows to be recorded during the week, then I clear by watching at the weekend.

Darnhttp://www.avsforum.com/ubb/eek.gif

[Automan]

TivoUK,
You could always put the old Sky 40Gb disc in your TiVo which will make it either 80 or 70gb (depending on whether it's a twin or single disc machine).

Does also seem you need the new 100hr day to watch it all http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Automan.

[TivoUK]

Too late!

I put 2 X 80 gig drives in my Tivo BEFORE I went on holiday.

There must be 6 pages of recordings on that to go through!!

Things would be easier if I did not have other things to do at the weekends
http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[This message has been edited by TivoUK (edited 10-25-2001).]

[paulpenny]

Some help on Sky+ please.

I want to use my old sky remote to control my sky+ box via the digilink rf feed.

I have followed the instructions in the Sky+ FAQ, but I only seem to have some of the functions. The up/down left/right & select buttons don't work. Nor do the coloured buttons.

Any ideas?

Thanks


------------------
Paul

[Bateman]

Originally posted by TivoUK:
Too late!

I put 2 X 80 gig drives in my Tivo BEFORE I went on holiday.

There must be 6 pages of recordings on that to go through!!



Bet if i did that there would be 160gigs worth of Simpsons!!!! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

------------------
Charles Astwood
http://www.astwood.com
http://www.london-eating.co.uk

[ALanJay]

Originally posted by paulpenny:
Some help on Sky+ please.

I want to use my old sky remote to control my sky+ box via the digilink rf feed.

I have followed the instructions in the Sky+ FAQ, but I only seem to have some of the functions. The up/down left/right & select buttons don't work. Nor do the coloured buttons.

Any ideas?

Thanks




The SKY + Remote control uses different IR codes and so the old rfemote control really can't be used sucessfully to control the SKY+ box - I belive you can however get additional SKY+ remotes.

[Boney]

Originally posted by ALanJay:
...I belive you can however get additional SKY+ remotes.

Try this link http://www.satcure.co.uk/accs/page3.htm

[Automan]

Try this link http://www.satcure.co.uk/accs/page3.htm

He is out of stock as everyone is but is hoping to get some in next week http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Good Price http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Automan.

[This message has been edited by Automan (edited 10-27-2001).]

[jwestoby]

Sky+ now running on 80GB drive (thanks for the info on which one to get).

Easy EXCEPT that the Sky+ box/HDD is held together with dimpled Tork screws - good job I buy tools anyway!

Got FTA card for the old digibox - less than a week from asking to activation - good job Sky/SSSL!

Still wondering about getting a Tivo too (for suggestions) and a way to nail my kit and use it together sensibly.

Thoughts?


------------------
Jim Westoby

[Osy]

Now I'm starting to feel left out. I'm first to get the lid off, and I'm still only running at 40Gb. Having just fried every chip inside my PC, I think I'll have to buy more parts for that first.

I noticed what may be another change following the recent software update. When pausing live TV it used to display the pause symbol and 'Please Wait' whilst it got itself sorted out. That has now been replaced with 'Live Pause'. I noticed because my box got in a state of losing half the channels and being unable to get out of that 'trying to pause' state.

------------------
Paul Osborn
Inside SkyPlus: http://www.uk.research.att.com/~pao

[Automan]

Paul,
I'm now depressed that I only got a 60Gb drive in my Sky+ http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif

Also my home PC kept not seeing it primary harddisk (a 30gb seagate).

Fortuantely I had made a ghost image of it to my second hard disk (20gig in size) 4 x 2gig files ghosts files.

Anyway my pc would not see its disk at all (would not spin up unless interface cable unplugged) so it's main disk is now my ex Sky+ 40gb (after 50 mins to restore the 8gb of ghosted data).

Quantum disk seems a lot slower than my duff Seagate one http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif

P.S.
The neatest new feature of the current Sky+ s/w is the ability to resume playing what you were last playing back by just pressing the play key twice http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Regular software updates / new features are so cool. I remember the last feature change we had with TiVo NOT.

Automan.

[Osy]

Originally posted by Automan:
The neatest new feature of the current Sky+ s/w is the ability to resume playing what you were last playing back by just pressing the play key twice http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif


I know that even before that update, you could press play and then select to continue, I don't think I've every used Play-Play.

Originally posted by Automan:
Regular software updates / new features are so cool. I remember the last feature change we had with TiVo NOT.


It is quite impressive that they are doing updates for fairly minor little niggles. Shows good promise for the future (and that they have confidence in they update procedure, unlike ordinary digiboxes). Only a shame there is no set of release notes from the development team listing the changes. Then we could all test them. As it stands I think some changes go by unnoticed (and therefore unappreciated).


------------------
Paul Osborn
Inside SkyPlus: http://www.uk.research.att.com/~pao

[HouseOfHaggis]

Have noticed that you can jump straight to the beginning of a recording now (and presumably also the end). I am not sure how I did it though !! - I was trying to rewind and then bam! it went straight to the beginning with a |&lt; symbol. Anyone else noticed this ??

Please tell me how I did it !

Also, I noticed some talk about Enterprise earlier - I think Sky have the rights to this and are not showing it until early next year so won't be on the BBC for a long time to come.

Ross.

[Automan]

Ross,
Holding the &lt;&lt; will take you to the previous bookmark or the begining of the recording.

Instant to recording end should be added in a future s/w upgrade along with an option menu when you reach the end of a recording.
yellow = delete
blue = keep
green = bookmarks.

Yes, adverts for Enterprise have been shown on Sky http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Automan.

[TivoUK]

My tapes have arrived from the States with various TV shows (I swap with a mate there) and have the first 3 Enterprise shows to watch amongst the 6 tapes I got.

However, now have about 5 weeks of TV to go through on the Tivo / Sky + setup so it may be a while before I can get to them - sigh...

Should I open bidding on someone to buy the tapes after I have viewed them http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif

[richard plumb]

BTW, according to BBC2, C4 has the rights to Enterprise for terrestrial TV.

At least it'll be widescreen.

[jwestoby]

Automan and others.

Don't feel bad about being trailblazers. I sincerely appreciate the risk you people took.

Anyway you'll probably end up sticking a BIGGER HDD in (when they come out) which I won't be able to justify to her who must be obeyed.

(She likes the Sky+ too and after HAVING to use the EPG for the Sky+ I think I'm finally getting the hang of it.)


------------------
Jim Westoby

[Automan]

Jim,
Yes, Sky+ is easier to use than TiVo http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

However, it's not as smart http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif

I've also found a new bug...

This one is only a small cosmetic bug but I see no reason for it.

Go to your Sky+ Planner and bring up the information window for something you recorded before the clocks changed this weekend.

Yes, it's an hour out. A program recorded at 06:00am now says 05:00am

I would have thought this data would have been read direct from a file stored with the recording.

Still, the Sky software gurus have nearly six months to fix it

Automan.

[HouseOfHaggis]

Thanks Automan,

Pitty about the jump to end thing, I thought I'd discovered a new feature ! Oh well.

[dsloper]

OK, Real stupid question now. (sorry, but still trying to decide between sky+ or second tivo and digibox)

One thing I want is the dolby digital when they start broadcasting it. However, if I am using the optical audio connection, but watching 'live tv' through Tivo (ie watching as though normal digibox), am I right in thinking the sound is going to be a few seconds out. Hence meaning that if using the optical, I would have to watch via AUX all the time?

Thanks
Darren

[Automan]

I would have to watch via AUX all the time?

Correct...
As you say the sound and picture will be well out of sync. Also the picture quality will be reduced as TiVo will have to turn your "as good as it gets" sky picture into re-manufactured mpeg created by your TiVo box.

Automan.

[dsloper]

Thanks Automan, I'm beginning to see why your Tivo never gets used now, looks like a bit hassly at the moment.

[dsloper]

Well, I've gone and done it. Bought Sky+ today, and will hopefully fit the new LNB on Friday.

This really is a good forum, but I must say since stumbling across it by accident a few months back it has cost me a bomb. Since reading I have bought a Tivo, Pronto, Sky+ and and still planning on new disks for both Tivo and now sky+. All because of this forum... http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif

[Automan]

dsloper,
Good luck with your new Sky+

It also seems Sky are having some "Market Research" company asking Sky+ owners how they are getting on with the kit - £35.00 if you take part (if you get asked).

Its good to know a supplier is interested in feedback from its customers http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Automan.

[Automan]

I've also have now updated my Sky+ Bug's Page...

It seems since the last software update several have gone into remission http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

See http://www.hummer.co.uk/skyplus-bugs.html for details.

Automan.

[Maclynn]

Any upgraders should avoid the Seagate 80gb ST380020A.
It does not spin up fast enough to be useable.
Mike.

[Automan]

For the first time in several weeks my Sky+ let me down http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif

Got home and it said not sat signal but the search and scan banner was okay as was the core epg.

Also both lnb's indicated 90% signal.

The problem occured sometime after 11:00am

Cycled power and all is well.

In my TiVo vs. Sky+ missed recordings battle, I'm afraid Sky+ is still in front as TiVo's inability to always change channel still scored more missed recordings.

Automan.

[mrtickle]

Have you weighted each one by the amount of time you have owned them, though?

ie &lt;no of failures&gt; / &lt;no. weeks owned&gt;

Could you have a stab at guessing a figure for each? Ta http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif

[Automan]

Yes,
It's based on the last four weeks I used TiVo with my Sony Digibox vs. the last four weeks using Sky+

7 x wrong channels on TiVo
3 x part or full recording failures with Sky+

I'm afraid I did not make note of how many program ends/starts got cut off by TiVo and I typically used to avoiding recording BBC programs knowing I would miss the end http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif

I now record programs from the BBC with confidence that I will see the whole program http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

It is however true that with Sky+ more time has to be spent placing programs in the Planner to be recorded. While doing this however, I have found other programs of interest (Typically on in the next 24hrs) that TiVo did not suggest and TiVo’s onscreen guide was to slow to bother with to find.

Also I have had to restart my Sky+ box three times during this period.
However, my Sony box now has the Planner so it would also most likely have locked up a few times thanks to Sky’s wonderful pre launch testing of their software (if I was still using it rather than Sky+).

Automan.

[GarySargent]

Why are you getting wrong channels on your TiVo?

------------------
Find out everything TiVo: http://www.tivoportal.co.uk
Have your say and vote for the features you want on your UK TiVo: http://www.tivosuggestions.co.uk
Got a bug? http://www.tivobugs.co.uk

[daveburrows]

I was going to ask the same question Gary. I used to get several wrong changes a week where I'd get the first 2 digits dialled in, but the 3rd never reached the box. I found out that the reason for this after testing myself was someone - notabily the cat, walking past the box when a channel change occurred (probably causing the IR to be redirected in another direction).

I've told him under no circumstances is he allowed to walk past the TiVo! As you'll probably guess... that didn't work, so I shut the door before I leave! &lt;g&gt;.

I haven't had an channel change problems since with my TiVo using the IR Blaster!

TiVo channel change errors really should be non-existent!

Dave

[jont]

My what's best so far list weighs in favour of Tivo !!

I've missed more programs with Sky+ - either partial/failed recordings or it's forgotten its series link and not bothered to record (including for Eastenders ... which i find strange as it must have the highest audience for programme on satellite !!!) ... this is a real pain in the a*s as I got used to Tivo's setup and forget :-(

What has been useful is that I have left some of my season passes set on Tivo so this *has* kicked in and recorded Eastenders, for example :-)

[Automan]

I used to have a sky IR mouse in a sealed box with a TiVo blaster. Also black pvc tape over the Digiboxes IR window and still sometimes TiVo would "glitch" the IR data.

If I recall Ted did say the IR control s/w in TiVo was being revamped in the new software for improved performance ļ

It has been reported by me (and others) that when TiVo starts to make a recording its sometimes busy doing other background task it can screw up on the IR.

Perfect IR screaning does help but TiVo's IR engine also has a problem.

Also I make at least 175 recordings in four weeks, so the TiVo IR "glitch" count of 7 is fairly low but not good enough.

P.S.
The Sky+ IR code seemed to work a lot better than the Grundig 20006 which is why I hoped TiVo might of liked to try a new one (I created the original Sky+ TiVo ir codes using the Open Keyboard which seem to produce a lot shorter, cleaner codes).

Automan.

[jwestoby]

(It's probably misguided but) I'm starting to trust the Sky+ more. &gt;&gt;Tending&lt;&lt; to watch recordings and get the box to record what I'd usually watch.

It rebooted itself the other day (it was on 999, s/w upgrade?) but HAD recorded things during the day.

Lost the sound after I put in the bigger HDD, called Sky (took a while but eventually got there) got through and eventually found the SCART was slightly out - boy am I stoopid! Well done to Sky customer services though. (No, I don't work for them I've just never got less than the above - maybe it's because I try not to sound like I'm moaning or maybe I'm lucky?)


Effectively it may be just a clever VCR (like our Sony SmartFile) but it IS always in use now. If it does ever get (Tivo-like) suggestions I dread to think how much TV I'd have stacked up.

(I record 'This Old House' so it would probably block book 24 hour Home & Leisure! I think I need a TeraByte HDD...)

As annoying as it is that Sky repeat things so often, it, sort of, works as a plus since clashes are rarely terminal - silly isn't it!

(HAD to TAPE 'Lethal Weapon 4' the other day, darn it - 'coz I couldn't be bothered to work out what I had on Sky and when I could get it again)


Ordered Tital AE from Box Office last week, box didn't delete it 24 hours after first watching it (which it said it would). I left it for three days then deleted it myself - odd?

I'll have to try using the EPG more (see if I can dispense with listings mag) I mormally only work a day ahead anyway.


Going to one of the market research junkets (2 weeks away) I'll keep a weather eye on it.


------------------
Jim Westoby

[jont]

There are some Sky+ codes up now at remotecentral.com for those pronto/rc5000 owners amongst us ...

In the same vein is there any pronto/rc5000 owners out there in the Glasgow area that wouldn't mind spending a couple of hours helping me to program my RC5000 ?? Beer and/or curry supplied ??

It seems a little arcane and I have cut/pasted/merged ccfs together but would really like to sort out something a little more bespoke ...

tia

[saint]

Does anyone know if any other manufacturer's will be producing Sky+ boxes?

[Automan]

Does anyone know if any other manufacturer's will be producing Sky+ boxes?

Amstrad one very soon and maybe a Sony one next year...

Automan.

[dsloper]

Well my sky+ is now installed, so I now have both Tivo and Sky+.

First impressions of sky+?

Picture quality is better.
Seems quick enough to set recordings
Very quick EPG
Tivo quicker changing sky channel with this digibox
Can't test sound yet as my sub-woofer blew last night.
Oh... and I crashed sky+ within 10 minutes, playing a recording and pressing rewind threww times quickly - needed to reboot.

One question : What's the latest s/w version for the sky+ and can i upgrade with the old power+backup combo or do i need to wait for it to download automatically.

Thanks

darren

[Automan]

One question : What's the latest s/w version for the sky+ and can i upgrade with the old power+backup combo or do i need to wait for it to download automatically.

1.21.a I think and you can force an update in the same way as a normal digibox.

Automan.

[dsloper]

Thanks Automan, I had 1.17.x

Sorry to be a pain, but one more question/comment if i may:
I thought Sky+ automatically used padding in it's recordings. In all test recordings I have tried this has not been the case (recordings have not been followed by another recording), in fact the opposite appears.

"Have I got news for you" for example is scheduled today from 21:00 - 21:30 My box recorded from 21:00 - 21:29 but was doing nothing before or after. (Mind you it caught the end ok)

[saint]

Originally posted by Automan:
Amstrad one very soon and maybe a Sony one next year...

Automan.

Will Panasonic be bringing one out?

Will they be all the same spec or will the new ones have bigger HD etc

[Automan]

Thanks Automan, I had 1.17.x
Sorry to be a pain, but one more question/comment if i may:
I thought Sky+ automatically used padding in it's recordings. In all test recordings I have tried this has not been the case (recordings have not been followed by another recording), in fact the opposite appears.

"Have I got news for you" for example is scheduled today from 21:00 - 21:30 My box recorded from 21:00 - 21:29 but was doing nothing before or after. (Mind you it caught the end ok)

Maybe the newer s/w adds the padding?
If the box is not recording it would normally start at 20:58 till 21:32

Sky+ boxes at the moment seem to be refusing to record the Simpsons this weekend - press record form the EPG and nothing happens! (reminder does work but not record). If someone has the time and this the same for them perhaps they would like to ring Sky.

I'm 40 miles away from my box so I can't really call them today http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif

Not heard anything about disc sizes or Pansonic model. AlanJ may have more info?

Automan.

[Osy]

I've found an annoying deficiency of the Channel 5 EPG data. I keep trying to record Cleopatra 2525 (don't ask). If set it to record a week in advance, it disappears on the day, but if I set it 24hours in advance it tends to work. I wonder if Channel 5 is changing the Programme IDs (I assume that is how it works) on the day of broadcast or something. Similar problem with CSI.
If anyone else has seen this let me know and we can add it to the bug list. Cleo is on fridays at 7:30 if anyone else wants to try.

------------------
Paul Osborn
Inside SkyPlus: http://www.uk.research.att.com/~pao (http://www.uk.research.att.com/~pao/skyplus)

[ALanJay]

Originally posted by Automan:

Not heard anything about disc sizes or Pansonic model. AlanJ may have more info?

Automan.

Not heard anything - the last time I asked they ern't really saying but they didn't rule out bigger disks in the future but I wouldn't expect it short term. They are still trying to guage and educate the market. I would doubt we would see anything else from them in the way of hardware till well into next year.

[RonnieBrown]

Hi Paul,

I've had exactly the same problem trying to record CSI on Channel 5 for the last six weeks. I tend to sit down with the newspaper TV sections on Sunday and add everything I want to record for the week and every Saturday I have to re-enter CSI because the entry has disappeared.

Kind of annoying but not as annoying as last night when Sky+ failed to record "Band of Brothers" and then marked all of my scheduled future recordings as "Failed".

Ronnie

[Maclynn]

I don't trust Sky+ yet for important recordings,it fails to often.
I use TiVo and an old Ondigi box,for my main recordings. Unlike my old Pace,it has not let me down yet.
The Sky+ is relegated to the not so crucial items.
Let's hope software improvements will sort things out.
Mike.

[ozsat]

Sky+ is too unreliable at present.

I had only had one failed recording in the month or so I have had it - but then yesterday at flagged all my planned records to FAILED - even though they had not happened.

I deleted them and re-added them.

An hour later all the new ones had been removed!

[Automan]

For the first time ever I left my Sky+ box all alone for four days (IT Refresh @ Work).

Anyway, it recorded everything it was supposed to other than Randall & Hopkirk (job gone from planner) and The Simpsons @ 18:30 sat & sun (bug would not let me mark them to be recorded).

A total of 27 recordings made okay and down to 6% free space http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Automan.

[Maclynn]

Mine has shown all future recordings as failed again this morning. The reason says cancelled.
Sky obviously think I am a deluded person and told me to waggle my leads.
Tragic really. It's just as well I have a sense of humour.
Mike.
P.S. I've applied for a Christmas job at PC World.
I hope I get it, I look forward to developing a blank expression and misleading people for a few weeks.
By the way, would you like an extended warranty with this message.


[This message has been edited by Maclynn (edited 11-06-2001).]

[Automan]

Last night for a laugh I watched a couple of hours of Grampion region ITV.

After that I went to mark a couple of programs to record and I then noted that all future events were set to FAILED recording cancelled.

I was wondering if watching none Sky channels with different rates etc stopped Sky+ from working okay.

First time this as ever happened to me http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif

Automan.

[GullyFoyle]

<FONT COLOR="Black">I had Sky+ installed today and interestingly the installer fitted a larger minidish in place of my existing one. Tried getting the unit open with a Torx key but only one screw had enough leeway to get a purchase. However Screwfix do a set of security bits that include the correct torx bit so hopefully I'll be able to take a look tomorrow. My unit is completely silent, it will be interesting to see if it has the same drive inside</FONT c>

------------------
Dave

[xneilj]

This is a continuation of this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/ubbtivo/Forum12/HTML/002147.html) abdout Sky+ (and comparisons with TiVo) which became a little too long. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Neil.

------------------
See the TiVo UK FAQ at http://www.tivoukfaq.com

[xneilj]

Edit by Moderator Gary Sargent: Threads now merged back so this post no longer applies (previously this thread spanned two threads in the old forum and this was the start of the new thread - I've now merged them back as the new forum can manage with long threads)

[jase]

HI Automan

I also had the problem of all my scheduled recordings listing as failed on sunday and this was after tuning in Sky channels with different rates etc.

Also when surfing through channels on sunday it jumped to sky active and instead of the usual 6 options or so there was around 12, it spanned across 2 pages. I cant recall what the extra options were because i assumed at the time i would be able to get back to it again, I guess its new interactive services or something.

jase

[Automan]

jase,
Yes, it seems anyone who has used their Sky+ box to watch the new ITV's will be in trouble relating to all future recordings.

Several people have reported this side effect (all future recordings are set to failed).

Re the long list in the Interactive menu. This indicates your box needs a reboot to fix.

All of Sky+ problems seem to relate to hickups in/with the EPG.

Automan.

[ALanJay]

Automan - I think Jas was correct in saying that it FAILS all its upcoming programmes when you ADD CHANNELS (in the recent case ITV1) and not watching them - been looking on and off at the ITV1 channels over the last few days and not had a problem BUT when I did the ADD CHANNELS it did die in the way discussed by Jas.

This is certainly something for people so check if they use the ADD CHANNELS function.

[Automan]

Alan,
I added all the extra channels several days ago.
My box only played up after watching ITV (Grampion) for an hour or so.

Whichever is the case, non sky channels seem to cause a problem http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif

Automan.

[Maclynn]

If anyone is curious, archiving Sky+ recordings with multiple drives is possible.
With advice from others I have fitted an 80gb Maxtor in an external caddy. The drive is much cooler and very quiet.
Swapping between drives is simple with this setup and apart from the occasional reboot after changeover, all is fine, with no loss of data.
Any of the known useable drives can be used.
The extended leads exit through the sidecar plate on the rear of the box, so there is no need to damage your box.
Hope this is useful.
Mike.

[GullyFoyle]

Having just done it I thought I'd post a step by step guide to the upgrade for anyone else contemplating it.

The drive I had bought was one recommended as working by people here, a Maxtor D540X -4K 80Gb 5400rpm drive,

Although others have had success opening the box with a standard Torx bit, I used a special bit designed to remove the spiked Torx screws that was part of a set of security bits (8983-74) from Screwfix Direct at £9.99.

After unplugging the box from the mains, opening the case was a doddle, undo the three spiked torx screws on the back and slide it off. At the front left is a metal cover over the drive held on by 4 screws, with a short IDE cable leading from the mainboard, through bent retaining lugs on top of the cover, to the IDE socket on the drive. I undid both ends of the cable and slid it out of the retaining lugs putting it to one side. I could then undo the four screws and remove the cover. Disconnecting the power lead from the drive allowed the drive to be removed (it is sitting in rubber pads).

It was a pleasant surprise to see that the existing drive was also a Maxtor D540X -4K but the 40Gb model. The old and new drive were jumpered identically.

I placed my new drive in the space vacated and connected the power and IDE leads, then I screwed on the metal cover. I fed the IDE cable back under the retaining lugs and plugged it in to the socket on the mainboard. I then replaced the top cover of the unit and replaced the three screws that held it in place.

After reconnecting the power the unit refuses to come out of standby for about a minute or so. This is presumably while the drive is being prepared. After the usual searching for listings. Everything came up as normal and I was able to live pause TV and start a recording as before.

The only oddity with the upgraded unit (which I was expecting from reading others experiences) is the percent full indicator which reads 43% when the new drive is empty.

The whole procedure took less than 10 minutes from start to finish


------------------
Dave

[Automan]

We must all thank Alan for the great news that Dolby Digital will be rocking your house (for those with Sky+) very early in December. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

See http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/displayarticle.php?id=4156 for his article.

It's a shame we will only have 25 DD5.1 movies to record & watch in December http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif

Automan.

[TivoUK]

This could be the kick up the ass for me to upgrade the disc in my unit now.

At least they have not said the Star Wars films will be shown in DD yet, that would be rather a big kick! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

[ALanJay]

Thanks Automan for telling people about the DD 5.1 movies :-) - SKY also say that they will be extending the number of movies in subsequent months.

Out of curiosiity anybody know how many differnet movies they show on these channels each month? ie what percentage have the got DD 5.1 soundtracks for.

[Automan]

ALan,
What's more amazing is that when I got home from work today (another 13hr day).
I turned on my box (which came on showing 998) was EPG Music http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

This is the first time since I've had Sky+ that the EPG music has worked.

Now we have it all DD5.1 & EPG Music http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Where will the marvels of Sky+ end?

Automan.

[mrtickle]

There's another marvel soon to arrive. Nearer to xmas you can get dedicated xmas music on one of the Music Choice channels! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Maclynn]

Why are they bothering with the stupid background music when they have more serious problems to fix.
Perhaps it is a case of fiddling while Sky+ burns.
Mike.

[jwestoby]

No need to 'dis' Sky - at least they're doing something. Tivo people must be fed up with version 2.5 always "just coming". (I'm sure it'll be worth it when it does.)

Good idea using an external caddy (no patent on this is there?), when I put in the new drive it was VERY hot!

New topic, over the last two weeks my Sky+ has been reset (know because it comes up on 998) several times but has not missed a single recording - someone seems to be doing sonething right so kudos to them.

A case of 'slow and steady gets there' maybe? (I know it's really 'wins the race' but as had been said, Tivo & Sky+ aren't quite the same animal.)


------------------
Jim Westoby

[GarySargent]

Originally posted by jwestoby:
No need to 'dis' Sky - at least they're doing something. Tivo people must be fed up with version 2.5 always "just coming".

Actually I'm now switching to "very soon" http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif


------------------
Find out everything TiVo: http://www.tivoportal.co.uk
Have your say and vote for the features you want on your UK TiVo: http://www.tivosuggestions.co.uk
Got a bug? http://www.tivobugs.co.uk

[This message has been edited by GarySargent (edited 11-09-2001).]

[Automan]

The EPG music was gone again this morning at 06:55 http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif

It's better than the TiVo menu noise just.

Automan.

[mrtickle]

Originally posted by GarySargent:
Actually I'm now switching to "very soon" http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif


Ooh!

What has caused you to switch?

What type of wink is that - is it a knowing one?

[sammoj]

If I know Gary thats the "I know but am not going to tell you but you might think I know when I don't but either way I could just be winding you up" wink http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gifhttp://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Maclynn]

Jim, the caddy idea is not mine, It came from Eirman on the Digital Spy website. http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/index.php
I can highly recommend it.
As to having a dig at Sky, I feel that until they acknowledge that they have problems, and stop treating their customers as idiots, then they are fair game.
Mike.

[Boney]

Okay, my Sky+ was installed today and I have to say that I think I must have a dodgy box. Some of the time the picture quality is perfect but the rest it is very poor. The best way I can describe it is that some objects, and it especially affects faces / flesh tones, look like a mountain range on a map or a fingerprint.

I know I have explained that really badly but is this a phenomonen anybody else has experienced or can any of the techies out there explain what the problem is?

Thanks and regards

Simon

[Automan]

Simon,
Did they do a good job with your dish alignment? Do you get good signal strenth & quality readings?

How is it linked to your TV? Is RGB scart enabled?

Automan.

[Boney]

Automan,

I used a local contractor who I trust implicitly rather than Sky In Home. Mine is a 3 storey house so one of their "Health & Safety" engineers couldn't come for 3 weeks anyway.

To answer your questions:-
- He did re-align the dish which was out fractionally
- Input 1 c60% Strength & 70% Quality
- Input 2 c50% Strength & 70% Quality
- Connection is RGB to SCART 1 (Sony KV32FD1) (have tried this on composite which displays the same phenomonen)

My second viewing card had arrived when I returned from a day out late last night so I now have my old (Sony 750) box also linked up (via TiVo). Looking at this as a comparison (in Aux By Pass of course), I can't decide if it is the same or not. If it is it's only on Jimmy Hill's face (currently watching "Jimmy Hill's Sunday Supplement) so I guess I'm looking for something which isn't there. Either way it's definitely much much worse on the Sky+ box.

The only other thought I had was watching the contractor fit the new LNB, he seemed to have some difficulty in getting the connections on during which time the LNB did seem to me to waggle about a lot and he may have pushed it slightly out of it's correct position? I would however expect both boxes to behave the same if this was the case so perhaps this can be discounted.

The final thing is that my TV set has always has always displayed motion artefacts quite badly (no ability to switch from 100Hz to 50Hz) and the contractor thought it may be this but for me that is different.

I appreciate your help. Any further thoughts?

(Edit - Just done some SCART swapping now and the Sky+ is definitely worse).


[This message has been edited by Boney (edited 11-11-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Boney (edited 11-11-2001).]

[Automan]

Simon,
Your dish readings seem a little on the low side to me...

I think the Sony box has a more sensitive Tuner than the ones fitted in Sky+ - How does the Sony's box readings compare fed by the same lnb output?

Have you tried the S-Video of Sky+ linked to your TV?

Good Luck

Automan.

[dsloper]

Well I now have has sky+ for a week. I had to work a 24 hour shift on Friday so for the first time could not fully check my planned recordings on both Tivo and sky+. Guess what, my sky+ failed for the first time.
It was set to record third watch (2 eps) and jack and jill on saturday morning. Thirdwatch both failed (no sginal) but it recorded jack and jill ok.
I think i still need to set both tivo and sky+ for unattended recordings at the moment.

[RonnieBrown]

The dual input tuner on my Sky+ box seems to be less sensitive than the tuner in my old Pace 2nd generation box.

I wanted to run the cabling from the loft space down behind the wall so I did it myself using CT125 cable from RS. Probably overkill and kind of expensive considering I got Sky to do the final hook-up and even had to supply them with the more chunky f-connectors.

I also got them to connect up my old Pace box in another room using the same CT125 cable.

Although my old box reads around 90% signal and 90% quality the Sky+ box reads about 60-70% signal and 80-90% quality. Both boxes are being fed from the Sky+ quad LNB and are all coming through approximately the same lengths of CT125 cable.

I haven't noticed any problems during normal viewing but I do seem to get some initial "blockiness" changing channels on Sky+ that I don't remember getting before. It doesn't happen that often but I don't remember it happening at all with the old box.

Might just be new gadget paranoia though.

-Ronnie

[Boney]

Originally posted by Automan:
I think the Sony box has a more sensitive Tuner than the ones fitted in Sky+ - How does the Sony's box readings compare fed by the same lnb output?Much stronger but about the same quality 80% strength and 70% quality. (Not the same cable though - in different rooms - may have to try that). Have you tried the S-Video of Sky+ linked to your TV?Thanks for the suggestion. Tried it just and if anything the problem shows up as even worse.

My second telly is an old, but still absolutely excellent, B & O set. Just tried that and same thing so at least I know it's not my TV.

'Phoned Sky earlier and will have contact and a visit from an engineer in the week. I've a feeling there is something wrong with the box having read about so many people having 2 or 3 boxes before they get a good one.

Thanks again for you help.

Regards, Simon.

[Automan]

As reported by a DigitalSpy forum member after he attended a market research session on Sky+ last night.

Things that were confirmed as coming soon:
The ability to make 2 recordings at once
30x FF
The ability to program in a "go-to" time
The ability to adjust the length of time recording starts before and ends after the actual program
A manual timer
Buffering of what's being watched, though as to how far back in time was not clear

Stuff they showed that was clever but wasn't of much interest:
Search by actor/director
Enhanced alphabetical searching
Screen-grabs in bookmarks
Showing of record/reminder icons in the EPG
Automatic recording of "movie of the day"
Broadcasters including bookmarks in their transmission data

Also looks like they may well introduce a TiVo style feature that records the kind of things it knows you like to watch


Probably loads of other stuff I've already forgotten!

I think it's now plain why TiVo boxes are under £200.00

Automan.

[This message has been edited by Automan (edited 11-14-2001).]

[TivoUK]

All good stuff!

Did these people ask anything techy, like the reboot of the boxes, noise levels of the boxes (being lower on "new" ones) etc. etc.??

[This message has been edited by TivoUK (edited 11-14-2001).]

[jwestoby]

Tut, tut.

Your 'spy' just broke the agreement he signed, I hope that makes him (and anyone involved) very proud.

Now you wonder why Sky don't give out info?

I always give my real name, email etc. I feel that being honourable is a worthy thing - I think it's a pity some don't.


------------------
Jim Westoby

[mrtickle]

Originally posted by Automan:
As reported by a DigitalSpy forum member after he attended a market research session on Sky+ last night.


[stuff, including a manual timer. How ironic! That says a lot about how reliable they admit the Sky EPG data is?!. They could have left the timer in the original boxes instead of removing it at launch back in Oct 1998 and made a lot of people very happy]


I think it's now plain why TiVo boxes are under £200.00


Eh? It's not plain to me - could you spell it out please? Ta http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif



[This message has been edited by mrtickle (edited 11-14-2001).]

[Automan]

mrtickle,
Not all channels provide series links due to their hardware not being up to it e.g. CHN4

Thus for repeating items on these channels the manual timer will help.

If all of the above is correct I assume Sky+ boxes will start to use a separate EPG stream with all the extra data e.g. Directors, Actors info.

Re TiVo price.
It's over a year old and has not been updated since day 1. It is slow, clunky, big & ugly, very poor marketing and very low sales and is infamous for chopping the ends of your recordings off.
TiVo may be to smart for what the average uk consumer wants.
It may go the same way as the Beta tape format.


Automan.

[This message has been edited by Automan (edited 11-14-2001).]

[csansbury]

Originally posted by Automan:
It may go the same way as the Beta tape format.


Automan.


It can never go the way of Beta. It is not an exchangable format. Kind of the same way that a cooker cannot go out of date. It does what is does, and always will...'til it dies.
http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif

[paulpenny]

Originally posted by Automan:
TiVo may be to smart for what the average uk consumer wants.
It may go the same way as the Beta tape format.

Automan.

Automan

It is interesting to read your comments on this forum. I have noted that Sky+ has more than its fair share of problems as reported on the PVR forum at Digital Spy. They seem to rather get lost whenever you post here.

I was under the impression that this was a Tivo forum and, whilst it is interesting to see what other developments there are and how they relate to Tivo, I do get a bit fed up with the "Sky+ is better - Tivo is doomed" attitude that you constantly display in your posts.

I am sure that Sky+ will suit some people more than others and the same will be true of Tivo. It is also true that Tivo may not survive if it cannot differentiate itself sufficiently from other PVR's. I am not sure that it is necessary to take quite so much pleasure in the prospect.

For what it is worth, I would welcome a SkyTivo which combined the functionality of Tivo (both current and promised!) with an onboard Sky twin tuner. That to me would be perfection.

So let's all live together in harmony http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif




------------------
Paul

[jont]

Paul

Without wanting to start a Tivo vs. Sky+ war, I think that Automan's comments are valid ...

I too have both and having lived with Tivo for 12 months (with sky digital) and sky+ for a month or so feel that Sky+ will outsell Tivo and will improve their software more quickly ...

It might be worth a thought that Tivo as a company will move more towards selling the pvr software for manufacturers to use - maybe we don't see as much of this in the UK with only one manufacturer ...

Yes Tivo does miss the start/end of programmes and I know it's the broadcasters fault but Joe public won't ...

Yes Sky+ does crash but does get the start/end of programmes and that will be it's main feature until Tivo revise their s'ware ...

I'm going to give my Tivo my old ITV digital box (so that when Sky+ does crash I will still get some programmes !!)

[Automan]

I'm afraid like a lot of folks on this forum that we are gadget freaks.

I like to have cutting edge technology gadgets thus have been through every major tape format VCR, VCR LP, VHS, VCC etc. I typically used to purchase a new VCR every year to keep up with the latest features.

Not forgetting Laserdisc (I had one of the first 500 on public sale in the UK), DVD, and I’ve been through at least 5 portable minidisc players, 3 x minidisc decks, MP3 Hard disc players, new DTS EX amp and of course TiVo.

TiVo is good but has not changed much from day 1 so it out of fashion (from a gadget freaks point a view, not a sensible person who expects to get years of service out of his kit).

New software / features would of course revitalize my interest in it but until this turns up it will most likely never get out of standby (unless my Sky+ box fails to record one of the programs they both record fails).

And yes Sky+ is far from perfect but still in my books is a gadget - till Sony/TiVo bring out something better http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

My list of Sky+ problems/bugs is at http://www.hummer.co.uk/skyplus-bugs.html that is still growing to prove I'm not totally biased.

P.S.
I also get rather a lot of mobile phones, maybe a new one every three / six months as they get smarter.

Automan.

[JamesM]

I have never understood why people become so defensive about their choice of consumer goods. I remember in the days of Beta v VHS, the arguments became very bitter. It's the same now with Apple v PC, and of course TiVo v SKY+. It's almost as if an attack on the item is taken personally. Why?

I am a TiVo owner, but I can see that SKY+ has several advantages over the original UK pvr. TiVo's marketing is bad (it's getting a bit better, but it is still pathetic) and the wait for the OS upgrade is frustrating. On the other hand, SKY+ has some bugs, and there are still quite a few things that TiVo can do, that are not available on SKY+.

TiVo suits me better for various reasons, but I can well understand why many people will prefer SKY+, and that fact doesn't bother me at all. In a couple of years both TiVo and SKY+ will seem very old hat, and there will probably be many varieties of better and cheaper PVRs to choose from.

Until then, I agree that we should try and keep the conversation polite and objective (!)

[sammoj]

Originally posted by Automan:
I'm afraid like a lot of folks on this forum that we are gadget freaks.

I like to have cutting edge technology gadgets thus have been through every major tape format VCR, VCR LP, VHS, VCC etc. I typically used to purchase a new VCR every year to keep up with the latest features.

Not forgetting Laserdisc (I had one of the first 500 on public sale in the UK), DVD, and I’ve been through at least 5 portable minidisc players, 3 x minidisc decks, MP3 Hard disc players, new DTS EX amp and of course TiVo.

TiVo is good but has not changed much from day 1 so it out of fashion (from a gadget freaks point a view, not a sensible person who expects to get years of service out of his kit).

New software / features would of course revitalize my interest in it but until this turns up it will most likely never get out of standby (unless my Sky+ box fails to record one of the programs they both record fails).

And yes Sky+ is far from perfect but still in my books is a gadget - till Sony/TiVo bring out something better http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

My list of Sky+ problems/bugs is at http://www.hummer.co.uk/skyplus-bugs.html that is still growing to prove I'm not totally biased.

P.S.
I also get rather a lot of mobile phones, maybe a new one every three / six months as they get smarter.

Automan.


Hey Automan, I assume your not married then http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gifhttp://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gifhttp://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gifhttp://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif:;

I thought I was "an early adopter", but I do tend to stick to the first product I buy - I still only have 1 x MP3 player (which I never use) and 1 x portable minidisc (which I rarely use). You put me to shame!!!!

http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

[Automan]

Hey Automan, I assume your not married then

Correct http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

I also have a Sony memorystick walkman along with my Creative lab Jukebox (upgraded to 20Gb of course) - Not a bad gadget with the latest software which allows it to boot in well under a minute.

I only have one real snag now - no money http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif

Automan.

[kmusgrave]

Originally posted by sammoj:

Hey Automan, I assume your not married then http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gifhttp://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gifhttp://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gifhttp://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif:;


I never understand this comment - if you're married (and your wife works) that means you've got even more money to spend on gadgets! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Kevin

[paulpenny]

Originally posted by Automan:
mrtickle,
Not all channels provide series links due to their hardware not being up to it e.g. CHN4

Thus for repeating items on these channels the manual timer will help.

Interesting:

Tivo chops the end off BBC recordings - BBC not Tivos fault - therefore you need to use manual record to make sure you don't miss anything.

Big negative for Tivo!!

Sky+ cannot record series links because the program providers don't/can't provide them - program providers not Sky+ fault - therefore needs introduction of manual record facility to "workaround" the problem.

Big positive for Sky+!!

I'm off to look up the definition of "interpretation" http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

------------------
Paul

[Automan]

Paul,
I see your point...

However, the BBC have never shown programs on time and thus it is a known problem to anyone who has used a VCR for the last several years.

That evil Sky+ adds a few minutes on to help cope with it (soon to be adjustable) - TiVo as of yet does not http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif

The Personal Planner "Series Links" however is new ground and only been working (sort of) for a few months.

Both TiVo and Sky+ are good products and BOTH could be better.

Automan.

[paulpenny]

Originally posted by Automan:


That evil Sky+...



I didn't say that! I like a lot of what Sky do, including Sky+. I just got the impression that you were "enjoying" the prospect of Tivos demise http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif



Both TiVo and Sky+ are good products and BOTH could be better.

Automan.

I couldn't agree more.

Anyway, Truce? http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Regards


------------------
Paul

[JonnyO]

How could Automan be looking forward to Tivo's demise if he owns one?

[Automan]

Now TiVo & Sony have done a "Global Deal" I'm hoping this will tempt Sony Europe to produce a TiVo box with integrated Sky Digital and may be even a Digital cable variant.

I will then have a new gadget to play with http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Product competition is good. Companies with monopolies tend not to care too much about their customers as long as the money keeps rolling in.

Automan.

[paulpenny]

Just to add to mix -

Home Cinema Choice has a Sky+ and Tivo head to head in the December issue.

Some good points made and some incorrect comments as always.

And the conclusion is.....http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

------------------
Paul

[paulpenny]

Oh, alright then.

Tivo awarded Best Buy! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

------------------
Paul

[Automan]

Paul,
Homecinema choice also said this as well http://www.homecinemachoice.com/news.html?itemcode=994690033 http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Automan.

[ChrisA]

Well they obviously meant September 2002!! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gifhttp://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gifhttp://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[paulpenny]

Originally posted by Automan:
Paul,
Homecinema choice also said this as well

Automan.

"Reported" this don't you mean? At a guess I'd say that was what they were told by Tivo. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

This month it is just their opinion/evaluation!

------------------
Paul

[dsloper]

Just noticed something on my sky+. Not sure if it is a feature, bug, or what, but I cannot find it in the manual.

Ok, the set-up:

Recording Predator2. Also watching the same program live. This is Channel 5. Previously I was watching Sci-Fi. Now, if I pause the live broadcast, it pauses ok. If I press the green button during the pause, pause stops, and the digibox retunes to BBC1. I can replicate this every time I try.

Anyone got any ideas on what this is, or can they replicate it?

Darren

[Automan]

Darren,
You must have been using Interative / Text on BBC1

It's a known bug. See item 4 at http://www.hummer.co.uk/skyplus-bugs.html which will show you how to recreate/clear the problem.

It has been reported to Sky http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Automan.

[This message has been edited by Automan (edited 11-18-2001).]

[xneilj]

Originally posted by kmusgrave:
I never understand this comment - if you're married (and your wife works) that means you've got even more money to spend on gadgets! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif


Yeah, but wives/girlfriends have this annoying habit of convincing you that the money would be better spent on some expensive new clothes or something dull rather that a cool new gadget http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif *ducks*

I remember being conviced I wanted to buy an indoor radio controlled helicopter (how cool, eh?) but I was talked out of it http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif

Neil.

------------------
See the TiVo UK FAQ at http://www.tivoukfaq.com

[Maclynn]

An indoor radio controlled helicopter!
I MUST have one. Where are they from and do you think her indoors will notice it divebombing the cat?
Mike.

[sammoj]

Originally posted by kmusgrave:
I never understand this comment - if you're married (and your wife works) that means you've got even more money to spend on gadgets! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Kevin

Yep, but you have to go through a "purchase approval cycle" which does not exist when you are single http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gifhttp://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Also, I have been talking to my friends recently about bank accounts and notice how all the married ones have joint accounts and their wive's have their own sole accounts as well! Doing something wrong here...


[This message has been edited by sammoj (edited 11-18-2001).]

[jont]

And don't forget to the compensation required for the 'aggro' factor of having another remote control for your new gadget ... or being 'inbetween' upgrades/programming the pronto for the new gadget ... or even worse rebuilding the entire system and cabling and only 'you' knowing what inputs you've set everything to ...http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Automan]

Back on thread target some feedback re the noise created by Sky+ in the living room enviroment.
http://www.homecinemachoice.com/news.html?itemcode=1005928349

Automan.

[kmusgrave]

I just got my Sky+ last week and generally I'm quite pleased with it - although I miss the high fast-forward speed, the skip-back after FF and the replay button of my Tivo! I do like seeing the ends of programmes though http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif Except - I've lost the end of 2 programmes on BBC so far! I thought I was watching my Tivo for a moment http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Kevin

[paulpenny]

Originally posted by kmusgrave:
I do like seeing the ends of programmes though http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif Except - I've lost the end of 2 programmes on BBC so far!

Kevin

Why have you lost the end of any programmes? Doesn't Sky+ use the EPG and therefore keep to time?

------------------
Paul

[kmusgrave]

I thought it did - it also adds 2 minutes padding at the start and end - execept if there are adjoining programmes to record, of course - that would be stupid!

I think perhaps all channels don't update the N&N banner properly.

Kevin

[cyril]

Originally posted by kmusgrave:
I thought it did - it also adds 2 minutes padding at the start and end - execept if there are adjoining programmes to record, of course - that would be stupid!

I think perhaps all channels don't update the N&N banner properly.

Kevin


And at least you don't have the problem of ITV running 10 mins late (yet) :-)

[Automan]

The Sky+ box uses the EPG schedule times and not the search & scan banner times - I don't know why?

Soon you will be able to adjust the padding time to more than 2 minutes as well as goto a time in a recording.

Automan.

[TivoUK]

Automan, I read a report on digitalspy that on the Sky Info (998??) station it says there will be a s\ware update to the plus boxes in December. Have you seen this, can you tell us the details?

[Automan]

I've not seen the update info yet on 998 (I suspect it would more likely be on 999 the dreaded info / interactive channel).

998 just shows you how to use Sky+ / and Sky boxes.

I assume the features being added will be some of these which were "leaked" earlier...

Things that were confirmed as coming soon:
The ability to make 2 recordings at once
30x FF
The ability to program in a "go-to" time
The ability to adjust the length of time recording starts before and ends after the actual program
A manual timer
Buffering of what's being watched, though as to how far back in time was not clear
Stuff they showed that was clever but wasn't of much interest:
Search by actor/director
Enhanced alphabetical searching
Screen-grabs in bookmarks
Showing of record/reminder icons in the EPG
Automatic recording of "movie of the day"
Broadcasters including bookmarks in their transmission data

Also looks like they may well introduce a TiVo style feature that records the kind of things it knows you like to watch

I will check 999 tonight - and of course for all those ITV's in the EPG!

Automan.

[This message has been edited by Automan (edited 11-21-2001).]

[dsloper]

According to channel 999, the following updates are due for early december:

1. upto 30sec FF and Rewind speeds
2. Enter the number of minutes you want playback to start from
3. In the Sky+ planner set record on and off without leaving the planner
4. A message will appear if there is a gap in the recording explaining why
5. Holding down FF will skip to the end of a recorded program (as long as there are no additional bookmarks)
6. A banner will appear at the end of playback
7. Backup whilst playing will take you back the the planner.
8. When watching a program this is still recording it's status will stay as recording, not viewed.

[Automan]

Cool...
At least one PTR/PVR manufacturer seems to be offering new features for their product and it been on the market less than 3 months!

Not many days now to the first Dolby Digital Movie either...

1. upto 30sec FF and Rewind speeds
Warp Drive http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif
2. Enter the number of minutes you want playback to start from
Good for skipping the 2 mins of padding at recording start http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif
3. In the Sky+ planner set record on and off without leaving the planner
A real time save when marking recordings from the EPG (before when you pressed rec it would take you to the Sky+ planner and then you had to press backup to return to the EPG). http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif
4. A message will appear if there is a gap in the recording explaining why
Does not happen very often if ever...
5. Holding down FF will skip to the end of a recorded program (as long as there are no additional bookmarks)
Useful incase the BBC are running really late to make sure you have the complete program.
6. A banner will appear at the end of playback
This will avoid user confusion thinking the box has got stuck on pause.
7. Backup whilst playing will take you back the the planner.
Handy if you want to delete the program quickly or watch another recording.
8. When watching a program this is still recording it's status will stay as recording, not viewed.
Minor fix.


Automan.

[This message has been edited by Automan (edited 11-21-2001).]

[Automan]

Well we can now record ITV1 with Sky+ and of course ITV2 in a few days (chn226).

Only 3 snags

1. Can't find anything worth recording
2. Tried a couple of soaps and can't see any series links
3. No 16:9 transmissions

Automan.

[dsloper]

This is really off Tivo topic, and off this topic, but maybe someone with sky or sky+ (Automan?) can confirm this:

Using the A-Z listings on sky+ i find no reference to a lot of programs. For example, if i goto a-z and try to find psi-factor it's not there, at least under the P's

[Automan]

Using the A-Z listings on sky+ i find no reference to a lot of programs. For example, if i goto a-z and try to find psi-factor it's not there, at least under the P's

I'm not sure when that's on but the A-Z listing only I think lists what's on in the next 24/48hrs (which is a bit naff but keeps it's size down).

Automan.

[Automan]

My box for the first time failed to make a recording this afternoon and two recordings had their starts slightly chopped off (I suspect Sky+ time must have been about 2.5 mins in error?)

It made recordings okay after the one at 15:00 but claimed "No Sat Signal" on the main Tuner.

After a reboot all was well again.

Perhaps it did not like 226 being added to the EPG?

Automan.

[JonnyO]

Hi Automan,
My box was in exactly the same state when I got home yesterday evening. Looks like it was a problem cuased by Sky rather than your own box.

[dsloper]

Automan:

DO I have to do anything to get my upgraded sky+ box to show the %free correctly. It's been running upgraded for 48hours and is still out.
Thanks
Darren

[Automan]

Darren,
I'm afraid not. It seems to be a bug in the software (no laughter please http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif ).

The formula they used to present the numeric free space indicator seems to be hard coded rather than reading real values from the hard disc and thus is only correct for a 40Gb drive.

However the error is only cosmetic as the main recorder logic does seem to recognise correctly different size hard disc.

We can only hope those very nice folks at Sky / Pace will correct the code in a future software release.

I shall correct the error on my website where I say it gets better. It is however okay once the disc is about 25% full.

Automan.

[dsloper]

Thanks Automan.

Two points/questions if I may.

1. To test my new disk I have set up a load of recordings. All ok, but after a certain point all new recordings do not have the channel listed on the right of the sky planner. Is this a known bug?

2. On your site you keep mentioning housekeeping! what do you mean by this?

Thanks again in advance

Darren

[ozsat]

Had four recordings in my PP.

Wanted to delete the 1st - Sky+ removed the 2nd

Though it was my fault - so double checked I had selected the 1st and selected to delete - it deleted the 2nd (originally the 3rd)

The new 2nd (was 4th) would not play - now channel name had ever appeared and selecting it said "call for assistance" and it auto-deleted.

Now the only entry left in the PP was the original 1st - the only one I wanted to delete.

Also, the disk space was not released by the programmes which should not have been deleted!

added: I then ran housekeeping to get the space back.

[This message has been edited by ozsat (edited 11-24-2001).]

[Automan]

1. To test my new disk I have set up a load of recordings. All ok, but after a certain point all new recordings do not have the channel listed on the right of the sky planner. Is this a known bug?

Yes, I've seen this problem only once. A cycle of the mains power will get the info back on most of the items.

2. On your site you keep mentioning housekeeping! what do you mean by this?

It's from the installer menu but beware it deletes all recordings but recovers lost space due to crashes etc.

This will most likely also cure Ozsat lost space problems but all recordings will be wiped and all events in the future will be deleted. Only the reminders remain as these are held in ram.

Also note at the end of housekeeping the box just reboots with no onscreen warning.

With luck the next s/w release due in the next 10 days or so will fix some of the snags as well as introduce new features.

Automan.

[cjhcjh]

Originally posted by Automan:

Creative lab Jukebox (upgraded to 20Gb of course) - Not a bad gadget with the latest software which allows it to boot in well under a minute.


O/T for this thread - but how do I upgrade my Creative Lab Jukebox?

[Automan]

Jukebox Info...

See
http://www.europe.creative.com/jukebox/user/bboard/thread.asp?thre=9409
http://www6.tomshardware.com/consumer/00q4/001110/mp3-13.html
http://www.europe.creative.com/jukebox/user/support/

Which should help...

Automan.

[cyril]

Hey Automan, you could have just bought a 20gb drive for £100 and upgraded your Jukebox yourself.

Me, I'm saving up for a 40gb iPod.

[Automan]

Cyril,
I went for the "easy" upgrade option....

Back on the Sky+ Theme....

I noticed tonight my box was not recording Voyager @ 22:00.

All indicators okay but no record led and the planner said "To Be Recorded"

Only option, cycle power.

And yes I've found a new bug http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

If you put Sky+ into standby while on a menu playing the EPG music it keeps on pumping out of the opitcal output.

I suppose as they had no EPG music during testing and thus they did not notice.

Automan.

[mrtickle]

Only 3 days to go until the Christmas music is added to Music Choice (channel 480) http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[ozsat]

Christmas is already active - using the 'other channels' option is much quicker!

[kmusgrave]

Originally posted by Automan:

I noticed tonight my box was not recording Voyager @ 22:00.

All indicators okay but no record led and the planner said "To Be Recorded"

Only option, cycle power.


I had this problem this morning (first time). Anyone know what causes it (apart from saying a bug http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif I mean what sequences of events?

Kevin

[Automan]

Dolby Digital Has Arrived http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif
YES!
Blue Streak is on TV at the moment and it ROCKS!

Need I say more....

A New Era Has Arrived At Last

CHN305 By The Way

Automan.

[Automan]

A few picture and sound problems occured in the next Dolby Digital movie "Body Shots" and infact they stopped the film.

Another real shock is the standard between movie music on 305 is also in Dolby Digital with LFE but all the adverts and trailers have no sound even if you reset the optical output to normal mode.

The real shock is after the silent adverts to being surrounded by sound.

It also seems every movie shown today has been in DD including Oklahoma (new version) so perhaps they plan to keep it up.

It seems also that "Rocky & Bullwinkle", "Billy Eliot", "Vertical Limit" and "6th Day" are all going to be on in DD

And YES, Rushmore has just started in DD - The future looks good for Sky and it's big +

Automan.

[Automan]

It would seem after the first day of Dolby Digital (which was not glitch free) that Sky have sorted most of the problems out.

The channel always has a Dolby Digital soundtrack and if the movie is in 5.1 thats what you get - I'm just playing back "The Green Mile" with flies buzzing around the room http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Other movies so far have only been in 2/0 and I've yet to see my amp autoselect Dolby Surround from the data stream (as a DVD would) - time will tell.

The audio level is however lower than all other channels. Infact when you go to the EPG, it's music is at normal music listening level rather than a quiet background track.

So for all you "gadget freaks" I'm afraid you now have no option now other than to buy a Sky+ to go with your TiVo (or TiVo's) http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Automan.

[sammoj]

No thanks, stick with the DVD player I think.

John - The ludite! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[guydewdney]

i feel that as a tivo user, that its going to die in the UK as sky+ advertises, tivo doesnt (on sky)..... The ads in the magazines are very poor, and don't relly bring up the best features of tivo - oooooh, i really want to spend several hundred pounds on a thing that pauses live TV. until you use it, the pause feature seems pointless! tivo need to pull their thumb from their bum, advertise on national telly, and get the softwareupdates out, not just talk about it.

no customers, no product support. goes the way of betamax.

[sammoj]

Prepare to duck when Tivo_Ted fires his rocket! You mentioned the Betamax word!

I agree with you BTW, the sales figures are disappointing but we have no Sky+ numbers to compare it with and that product is still going through the early adopters and Automan gadget freak stage! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gifhttp://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gifhttp://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

(No offence Automan!)

[Automan]

TiVo still has a good market in the UK and of course Sky+ only works with Sky Digital.

Granted their advertising campaign has been a little naff but it's difficult to describe what a TiVo box can do. And the average saleperson in Dixons or Comets is not going to help http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif They don't really know about Sky+ either!
Perhaps TiVo would sell better in the UK if it was just described as VCR+ All the other clever features would them be a pleasant surpise for the consumer when they hook it up.

Today I also spotted (in error) something else Sky+ can do that TiVo can't.

You can (sort of) pause while you are making a recording http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

For example, you press record at the start of Stargate. At the start of the first break you press rec to stop recording. At the end of the break you press record again and so on...

Yes, Sky+ can append recording sessions of the same program into one object. It does take a couple of seconds for the picture/sound to recover at the recording joints but it's not bad.

Automan.