Dateline NBC - tonight's episode: "To Catch a Predator IV"

[BrettStah]

In case you've never seen the previous episodes of this, they (Dateline) work with a group that attempts to catch child molesters who like to lure kids into inviting them over for sex. Some think it's a form of entrapment:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12498249/

[jsmeeker]

In case you've never seen the previous episodes of this, they (Dateline) work with a group that attempts to catch child molesters who like to lure kids into inviting them over for sex. Some think it's a form of entrapment:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12498249/


They are still doing this? I remember this first go around. Pretty wild stuff. A lot of varied reactions from the guys. The weirdest one was the guy that stipped down naked and stood around in the kitchen waiting for the person he thought he was waiting for.

[BrettStah]

Yes, and some of the guys they caught last time said that they had watched earlier episodes - they're not only perverted, but they're dumb too.

[choccy]

I don't approve of the way they go about this, but I'll watch the show anyway. There's sure to be a thread about it tomorrow. :)

[jsmeeker]

I don't approve of the way they go about this, but I'll watch the show anyway. There's sure to be a thread about it tomorrow. :)


This sort of raised my eyebrows a bit...




As our team set up all the hidden cameras and connected the miles of cable needed for a shoot like this, PJ decoys trolled the chat rooms.

They might want to avoid using the word "trolled".

and then this..

Take the case of a 26-year-old man who chatted online with a girl who said she was 13. It was really Del, a PJ volunteer. When he wanted to see the girl on a webcam, we were ready. A 19-year-old actress hired by Dateline was ready to play the roll. She looks much younger than her age, 13 tops. But it was enough to convince James Rutherford that she was real and ready for a visit. Rutherford types: “I knew you were cute, but damn.” And “I’m not naked with naked with you there now why?”


On that Sunday afternoon, a red Corvette pulled into our driveway. Sure enough it’s Rutherford. The actress waves him in and tells him to have a seat.


So, they used a 19 year old girl to assist in this and actually showed HER picture? I know they say that he thought he was talking to a thirteen year old. But he saw a 19 year old, not only ON-LINE, but actually IN PERSON at the house.

Entrapment? I dunno. But something seems slightly "amiss" with that method. I think the words they use ("troll") and their methodologies could hurt what they are trying to do.

[slydog75]

Can we get a legal definition of entrapment from one of the numerous lawyers here?

[bigpuma]

They are not arresting these people are they? I thought they were just "exposing" them. How could that be entrapment Dateline is not law enforcement.

[jsmeeker]

They are not arresting these people are they? I thought they were just "exposing" them. How could that be entrapment Dateline is not law enforcement.


I dunno..

Once again we enlisted the help of Perverted Justice, the online watchdog group whose volunteers pose as young teens in chat rooms, home alone and willing to be visited by a man after a sexually-charged online conversation. And for the second time now, law enforcement would be set up near our house to arrest the potential predators after I had confronted them.

This time it was Det. Mike Burns and his team from the Darke County, Ohio Sheriff’s Department.


NBC is not law enforcement, but the Darke County, Ohio Sheriff's Department is.

[bobotech]

How is it entrapment? They (dateline) pose as a underage kid. They get the interest of an older guy. The older guy then eventually delves into wanting sex or contact with a young underage kid. They setup a meeting with hidden cameras. The marks end up trying to meet the young kid.

I see that the only bad person in this situation is the bad guy/mark as in it was HE who made the choice to go meet some young girl. Its not like Dateline put a gun to the marks head and said "Come here or we are going to shoot you".

I dunno but I still think its a fine thing to do (nail those sick bastards or at least publically humiliate and ruin their personal lives.).

[bigpuma]

I dunno..



NBC is not law enforcement, but the Darke County, Ohio Sheriff's Department is.

Well I guess it would help if I read the link. :o

[Donbadabon]

They are not arresting these people are they? I thought they were just "exposing" them. How could that be entrapment Dateline is not law enforcement.

The last two in the series (#3 and this one, #4), they are working with the local police in these stings. And when the guys come out of the house, they are arrested by the waiting cops.

Last night they even deputized the group running the sting.

Next week is a continuation, where they show us the men being booked and going to court.

You have to think that even though they are claiming it is their first time doing this, that some have actually succeeded before. And that is pretty scary.

[marksman]

This sort of raised my eyebrows a bit...





They might want to avoid using the word "trolled".

and then this..



So, they used a 19 year old girl to assist in this and actually showed HER picture? I know they say that he thought he was talking to a thirteen year old. But he saw a 19 year old, not only ON-LINE, but actually IN PERSON at the house.

Entrapment? I dunno. But something seems slightly "amiss" with that method. I think the words they use ("troll") and their methodologies could hurt what they are trying to do.


The people that actually solicit the pedophiles are very experienced. They don't actually solicit the conduct or the contact. There is no entrapment involved. For all the guy knows the girl is 14 or whatever she said. She does not ask the men to come over to have sex or instigate any of the illegal conversations. It is all insitgated by the male.

Being a 13 year old girl or pretending to be a 13 year old girl should not be considered entrapment. Most of the chat rooms where these guys go are mostly innocent. They just let it be known that they are a young male or female and wait for the fish to bite.

I just can't see any angle where you could succesfully argue that simply impersonating a 13 year old is entrapment. Since the act of just arranging for a meeting with a child with the intent of having sex is against the law, I just don't see much of a problem there.

By the way the group that they used in the past to set a lot of this up is called Perverted Justice. I do not know if they participated last night as I have not seen it yet. They do however do these kinds of stings on their own and publish all of the information to the public and even contact the families and employers of those they catch in their stings.

Certainly smacks of vigilante justice, but these shows convince me that this stuff is just happening too frequently and with little to no thought of consequence to be truely alarming.

[Bars & Tone]

What I couldn't figure out was why these bozos continued to engage in conversation with the interviewer. Did they think he was a cop? And if they did, that's even more reason to keep their mouths shut. But I suppose it's hard to think logically when you see your life going down the drain right before your very eyes.

[Billy66]

Doesn't seem like entrapment, but doesn't seem like a crime either.

The guy talked, saw, and met a woman of consent. Where's the crime?

IANAL, but I belive entrapment is when you are enticed to do something that you wouldn't normally do. Thus a cop on the corner who looks like a hooker and is approached is ok. A cop looking like a hooker making initial contact and selling herself would be.

[jsmeeker]

The people that actually solicit the pedophiles are very experienced. They don't actually solicit the conduct or the contact.


NBC used the word "trolling". If you apply the traditional Internet user definition of the word, then trolling means you are actively seeking to start something, and usually stirring up a lo of trouble,

That's why I suggested they may want to be careful of using the word "trolling", as some could take it to mean jsut what I described. Maybe they didn't do that. If not, they shouldn't use the word "trolling". It looks bad. I think it can hurt their case. (as I pointed out in the post).

[BrettStah]

NBC used the word "trolling". If you apply the traditional Internet user definition of the word, then trolling means you are actively seeking to start something, and usually stirring up a lo of trouble,

That's why I suggested they may want to be careful of using the word "trolling", as some could take it to mean jsut what I described. Maybe they didn't do that. If not, they shouldn't use the word "trolling". It looks bad. I think it can hurt their case. (as I pointed out in the post).
Don't apply that definition, and then there's no confusion. :D

Trolling means that they put a seemingly underage kid in a chatroom, and wait for the prey to pounce.

[BrettStah]

Doesn't seem like entrapment, but doesn't seem like a crime either.

The guy talked, saw, and met a woman of consent. Where's the crime?

IANAL, but I belive entrapment is when you are enticed to do something that you wouldn't normally do. Thus a cop on the corner who looks like a hooker and is approached is ok. A cop looking like a hooker making initial contact and selling herself would be.
It's apparent that you really aren't a lawyer. :) (But then again, neither am I).

If an undercover cop is standing on a street corner and acts like they're a drug dealer, the people who attempt to buy drugs from them can and are arrested, even if the cop only has baking powder in the little bags he's selling.

[jsmeeker]

Don't apply that definition, and then there's no confusion. :D

Trolling means that they put a seemingly underage kid in a chatroom, and wait for the prey to pounce.


My point it that people that are Internet users WILL apply that definition. It's the FIRST thing that comes to my mind when someone says "We were trolling Internet chat rooms".

They should find another word to describe what they do.

[darthrsg]

trawl
troll
hmm...