TiVo and guide data fro other sources.

[Raj]

Do some TiVos retrieve guide data off air or from the cable system?

I know that DirecTiVos retrieve their data from the sats (I have two DirecTiVos), and I know about teleworld. I am not talking about those.

My new TV has a built in TV guide where it retrieves guide data from (I believe) the cable system or an OTA channel. Do any TiVos retrieve their guide data that way? Or do they just get it from the telephone line or teleworld?

Any future TiVos going to do it that way?

[ZeoTiVo]

there was a trail of getting it via teleworld - I guess to tyr and shut down the modem banks. But it was probably unreliable in that not all get teleworld and maybe a recording supercedes teleworld.

cable companies are not jumping to help with TiVo guide data so that is out.

so except for DTV that does want those TiVo enabled DVRs to not need a phone line - it is phone line or broadband on current models.

no idea if any future change is out there. Nothing mentioned in the forum

[hitbyatrain]

All standalone TiVo's get their guide data through the service downloads. DirecTiVos get theirs from the satellite.

[jfh3]

Do some TiVos retrieve guide data off air or from the cable system?

I know that DirecTiVos retrieve their data from the sats (I have two DirecTiVos), and I know about teleworld. I am not talking about those.

My new TV has a built in TV guide where it retrieves guide data from (I believe) the cable system or an OTA channel. Do any TiVos retrieve their guide data that way? Or do they just get it from the telephone line or teleworld?

Any future TiVos going to do it that way?


To add to what has been said, Tivo also manipulates the guide data to enhance the ability of the "Suggestions" feature, so it's very unlikely that the guide data will ever be available other than through the Tivo service.

[Raj]

So what about TVGOS? Any plans to use that? Seems to me that would be better than using the phone line.

[mattack]

My new TV has a built in TV guide where it retrieves guide data from (I believe) the cable system or an OTA channel.

You're probably talking about the "TV Guide On Screen" system.

I have no personal experience with it, but based upon reviews in the DVD Recorder section on avsforum.com, it's VERY unreliable for some people, and when it does work, the guide information is way less complete than that in Tivos.

Then again, it's free, so that's a point for it. But IIRC, it never has new/rerun status for shows, and descriptions are way less complete.

Also, one common question is how do people turn off the TGOS functionality in their new hard drive/DVD recorders..

[jfh3]

So what about TVGOS? Any plans to use that? Seems to me that would be better than using the phone line.

You've never used TVGOS, have you? When it works, it's fine. But it's highly unreliable for many OTA and cable users.

And it doesn't have the additional content that Tivo adds to its' guide data.

[segaily]

Keep in mind stand alone TiVo's can also get their guide data from the internet not just phone lines.

[ZeoTiVo]

So what about TVGOS? Any plans to use that? Seems to me that would be better than using the phone line.


you are going to eitehr have to use a phonle line calling direct to the TiVo numbers (local in most every area) or else get an internet connection and use a USB adapter to put your TiVo on a home network

[Raj]

You've never used TVGOS, have you? When it works, it's fine. But it's highly unreliable for many OTA and cable users.

And it doesn't have the additional content that Tivo adds to its' guide data.


Yes I've used it. Initially I had problems setting it up, but I managed to get it working.

I dunno, I would have thought it could at least be used as a backup source of guide data, thereby reducing the amount of phone time.

you are going to eitehr have to use a phonle line calling direct to the TiVo numbers (local in most every area) or else get an internet connection and use a USB adapter to put your TiVo on a home network

Keep in mind stand alone TiVo's can also get their guide data from the internet not just phone lines.

Yes I know all of this.

I own two TiVos (one of them hacked with a turbonet) and I've been around TiVos long enough to know that they can get the guide data from the phone, broadband or from teleworld.

This was just a theoretical question - i.e. why is TiVo wasting time with analog POTS lines when they can just get the guide data OTA or via the cable system. I wasn't sure whether any of the recent updates had included TVGOS capability. I haven't really been checking out any of the new software versions.

Broadband is a huge improvement, and would likely be transparent but it still involves an outside non-TV signal source.

[hitbyatrain]

This was just a theoretical question - i.e. why is TiVo wasting time with analog POTS lines when they can just get the guide data OTA or via the cable system.

Well, I'm guessing that the sheer amount of data that TiVo downloads has something to do with it. If TiVo was just to rely on the OTA broadcasts for guide data, then the TiVo wouldn't even have to dial in. If TiVo didn't have to dial in, it couldn't receive instructions on what TeleWorld programs to record, couldn't receive the yellow star advertisements, and most importantly, couldn't receive software updates that add functionality (as well as revenue streams for TiVo.)

I can hear you thinking--"Well TiVo could just tell the boxes to call in once a month, while getting guide data OTA." They *could.* But then, they'd still need those modem banks, wouldn't they?

The bottom line is, the TiVo downloads much more than guide data when it dials in.

[ZeoTiVo]

Yes I've used it. Initially I had problems setting it up, but I managed to get it working.

I dunno, I would have thought it could at least be used as a backup source of guide data, thereby reducing the amount of phone time.





Yes I know all of this.

I own two TiVos (one of them hacked with a turbonet) and I've been around TiVos long enough to know that they can get the guide data from the phone, broadband or from teleworld.

This was just a theoretical question - i.e. why is TiVo wasting time with analog POTS lines when they can just get the guide data OTA or via the cable system. I wasn't sure whether any of the recent updates had included TVGOS capability. I haven't really been checking out any of the new software versions.

Broadband is a huge improvement, and would likely be transparent but it still involves an outside non-TV signal source.

reliability of the POTS line or broadband as implied above. cable companies are not going to cooperate with TiVo unless they sign a deal to cooperate.

OTA is again unreliable. the POTS line and broadband are all working well for TiVo and broadband is great when TiVo needs to send an update of code. I am sure TiVo would shut down modem banks tomorrow if they could, but not everyone is taking the time/effort to mod series 1 and TiVo needs to honor those lifetime subscriptions on them.

[dt_dc]

This was just a theoretical question - i.e. why is TiVo wasting time with analog POTS lines when they can just get the guide data OTA or via the cable system. I wasn't sure whether any of the recent updates had included TVGOS capability. I haven't really been checking out any of the new software versions.BTW, to use the Gemstar/TVGOS data you (the manufacturer ie, Tivo) have to pay a license fee to Gemstar.

The datacast TVGuide guide data is encrypted ... you can't just pluck it out of the air for free. Honestly, I don't think (although I'm not 100% sure on this) that Gemstar would give out a software based key. When you license TVGOS you (typically) use an SoC which includes the the guide data decryption. Although ... if you could convince Gemstar your implementation was secure enough ... perhaps something could be worked out. But Gemstar depends heavily on protecting that data in order to get license fees for it. I dunno ...

Also, AFAIK, Gemstar has never licensed access to the guide in and of itself without use of TVGOS interface. Again, I'm sure something could be worked out ($$$). But ... most companies license the full TVGOS package. Gemstar seems willing to sell it pretty cheap (I think about $10 per unit). But ... a big reason for this is that Gemstar then gets recurring revenue by selling advertising which shows up in the guide itself. Give away TVGOS cheap ... sell advertising. If you wanted to access just the guide data without the full interface ... I would think Gemstar would demand some sort of per-subscriber per-month fees. Nothing that $$$ can't work out ... but it's still $$$.

Oh ... and then there was the Gemstar / Tivo patent dispute / lawsuit / settlement ... not sure exactly what that settlement entailed.

On the cool side though ... you can also use OTA datacasting to push software updates:
http://www.nationaldatacast.com/files/UpdateLogic.pdf

[CharlesH]

I am sure TiVo would shut down modem banks tomorrow if they could, but not everyone is taking the time/effort to mod series 1 and TiVo needs to honor those lifetime subscriptions on them.TiVo doesn't have any modem banks of their own. They have contracted with an ISP for TiVo boxes to call one of that ISP's local numbers, and logon to the Internet. Then the TiVo box just connects to the TiVo servers over this dialup Internet connection. If you have broadband, the TiVo box already has an Internet connection and just connects directly to the TiVo servers.

[ZeoTiVo]

TiVo doesn't have any modem banks of their own. They have contracted with an ISP for TiVo boxes to call one of that ISP's local numbers, and logon to the Internet. Then the TiVo box just connects to the TiVo servers over this dialup Internet connection. If you have broadband, the TiVo box already has an Internet connection and just connects directly to the TiVo servers.


which is why I said shut down modem banks - the word their was, I had hoped, noticeably missing. Still costs TiVo money. I probably used the same modem banks to dial into prodigy a long time ago in a distant galaxy.