Lifetime Gift Cards still available at Best Buy

[MEngland]

I have now seen Gift Cards that were activated at Best Buy as recently as 8-Apr-06. So some lucky people are still finding and buying these cards.

TiVoOpsManager has said that all Gift Cards are valid once activated at the register. This makes sense as the purchaser has (at this point) paid $299 for the card. TiVoOpsManager also notes that Best Buy was asked to pull them from the shelves, so we can safely assume that TiVo would prefer that additional cards NOT be sold.

So I was wondering... If TiVo does not want any more of these Gift Cards sold, why don't they shut down the machinery that processes the activations? Your BB shopping trip would go like this: You would find a card at your local BB and take it to the register to pay. The cashier would scan the card serial number and get a message that the card could not be activated. You mwould be disappointed, but no money would have changed hands, so there would appear to be no legal issues.

Why has TiVo not done this?

[Puppy76]

Unfortunatly I checked a couple of weeks ago and couldn't find any :(

Though technically it might be cheaper for me to buy a Series 3 with any potential discounts and just pay $7/month.

[Sirshagg]

This was my original thought too. It was pointed out that the activations might be done as a batch process. In this case the customer paid for the card and left the store by the time the cash register talks to the activation center to activate the card. It's definitely possible. There's no urgent need to have activations "live".

Unfortunately i have seen none of the lifetime cards at my local best buys.

[MEngland]

Though technically it might be cheaper for me to buy a Series 3 with any potential discounts and just pay $7/month.
I believe it is well understood that TiVo got rid of lifetime because it is (was) the cheapest option. I expect that the value of lifetime will only increase as time passes. This is simple logic - If the value of lifetime were going to decrease (because, for example, the monthly fee were lowered), then TiVo would not have discontinued it.

So I think that the "value" of a lifetime sub will increase. The most obvious way that this might happen is an increase in monthly fees or a different fee structure for Dual Tuner or HD boxes. Maybe a S3 will be $7/mo with MSD, but I am betting that it won't be available that cheaply.

But back to the primary question: Why has TiVo NOT shut down the Best Buy Gift Card activation process?

[Puppy76]

I really doubt S3 will cost any more to operate. They're already pushing it as it is, and the guide data dosen't cost them any more. Plus they should be able to make money from video rentals on S3 (and possibly S "2.5").

So for me, assuming I end up with at least a $150 discount on an S3 with service, which seems likely, it would take me over 5 years to break even on a Lifetime subscription, which is a pretty big gamble.

EDIT: Out of curiosity, why does the Tivo with 160 GB drives only have slightly more recording time than the 120GB drive TiVos?

[MEngland]

EDIT: Out of curiosity, why does the Tivo with 160 GB drives only have slightly more recording time than the 120GB drive TiVos?
All were upgraded in the pre-LBA48 days, so the 2x160 is seen as 2x137. Plus, I think that some of these older 120GB drives were actually larger than 120GB (122GB or 123GB reported). So the TiVos are ~244GB vs 274GB. A difference of about 30GB (and about 30 hours).

It was pointed out that the activations might be done as a batch process. In this case the customer paid for the card and left the store by the time the cash register talks to the activation center to activate the card.
I think batch is unlikely. Batch would mean that someone would walk out of Best Buy having paid $300 and some (hours, days, weeks) later, a problem with activation is discovered, but the customer would be unaware. Very problematic.

The amount of data that would need to be exchanged for activation is pretty small. Register sends card ID to activation server. Activation server adds ID to some database and sends back an OK. Done.

[Sirshagg]

I'm not saying that it should be done in batch mode, only that it could. I can tell you that I've worked with more than a few widely used Point of Sale software programs and I know that they do not transmit charge card credits (returns)immediately, these are just sent with the batch at the end of the day. This would pose the same type risk as you are describing for activations but it does not seem to be a problem.

[ChuckyBox]

I'd guess that there are less than 100 cards left in BB stores across the country. It just isn't enough of the cards for either company to worry about. There are about 1.5 million standalone customers, about half of which are lifetime. The company added about 500K (gross) subscribers last year. The few thousand people who upgraded to lifetime, plus the cards foing forward, won't make much of a dent in the statistics. The difference to TiVo will be the (hoped for) large number of new subs over the next couple of years who will all be monthly. The one-time blip from the changeover will be insignificant.

[MEngland]

This would pose the same type risk as you are describing for activations but it does not seem to be a problem.
The big difference being that with a CC transaction, they have data about who I am and could contact me if something went awry. If I buy a Gift Card with cash, how do they contact me if something does not work in the batch activation process? This is why I think it is a "live" process.
and the guide data dosen't cost them any more
Two replies to this:
1) The Monthly fee also includes s/w updates. Clearly the DT and S3 boxes have more (and more complex) software. Why can't these updates cost more?
2) Even if you consider just the portion of the monthly fee that is associated with guide data, who says they can’t charge more? Ebay charges me extra if I want my listing title in bold. This costs them nothing, but they charge me more because the service has value to me. TiVo could say that guide data is more valuable on a dual tuner machine and increase the price.

Don't get me wrong, I am not asking for a price increase. I am just saying that there are a number of reasons that could be used to explain an increase.

{there are not} enough of the cards for either company to worry about
I would tend to agree with this assessment. But if turning the activation machinery off was fast and easy, I still expected it to happen. Apparently, it is neither fast nor easy to disable.

[jfh3]

But if turning the activation machinery off was fast and easy, I still expected it to happen. Apparently, it is neither fast nor easy to disable.

It could very well be fast AND easy.

Perhaps Tivo just thought that given the few number of cards left in the stores (I know for a fact there are none in the Best Buy resupply chain), that it would cause more hassle for their partner Best Buy than it would be worth.

My wife still gets on my case for leaving the Best Buy where I found my cards with 4 cards still on the rack, though that hasn't stopped her from spending the $500 in "lost profit" about three times.

[stevereis]

[QUOTE=MEngland]I have now seen Gift Cards that were activated at Best Buy as recently as 8-Apr-06. So some lucky people are still finding and buying these cards.

I was in Houston yesterday on business and the OP motivated me to at least check out the 2 nearest BB's for cards as I had no luck at finding any at a few Dallas stores. At the 2nd store I actually found one on the racks at the front but none at the back.

It was a nice birthday present... :up: :)

BTW, the cards are "powered by Fastcard" so it seems this 3rd party actually handles activation and validation and TiVo is not really involved in that. Look up fastcard-dot-com.

[Puppy76]

Where would these cards be in the store? I've just got one Best Buy within 20 miles, and it only *seems* to have one rack (above the Tivos) that has service cards, and they're all either 1 year or 3 months.

MEngland, I know they COULD up the price, but I don't think they're going to (they certainlly shouldn't). $13/month is already a lot (maybe too much)-even more so when you're trying to attract new customers and prevent people from switching to Windows or a cable DVR.

And the cost of the software shouldn't increase that much (and should already be basically paid for at this point-we know S3 is in Beta, and seems to use code from S2, or at least the interface). Plus the cost to develop the software isn't much more for 10,000,000 users then it is for 1, so any added expense should be more than offset by the new users they're (hopefully) getting.

[filburt1]

The cards are supposedly near the TiVos themselves or the checkouts. I called a Best Buy three weeks ago trying to get some (after driving to three other Best Buys that day), but I've given up on calling them back and haven't heard from them either. Either:

They were screwing with me and had no plans to actually order them.
They ordered them, but being Best Buy is incompetent, never called me.
TiVo rejected the order.
They ordered them and hoarded them themselves.

[jfh3]

The cards are supposedly near the TiVos themselves or the checkouts. I called a Best Buy three weeks ago trying to get some (after driving to three other Best Buys that day), but I've given up on calling them back and haven't heard from them either. Either:

They were screwing with me and had no plans to actually order them.
They ordered them, but being Best Buy is incompetent, never called me.
TiVo rejected the order.
They ordered them and hoarded them themselves.


Best Buy stores CAN'T order them ... there are NO cards in the regional or national warehouses, so even if they place an order, it won't be filled.

If it's not already in a store, you won't get one at retail.