Veronica Mars 4/5/2006 (S02E17) "Plan B"

[dswallow]

Why was Cassidy acting like that? I feel like I missed something.

[Amnesia]

Is he gay?

And what's the real deal with that DVD? (And I can't believe that the mayor didn't ask Keith if he made a copy)

[Rob Helmerichs]

Is he gay?
That was my impression...

[edc]

Why was Cassidy acting like that? I feel like I missed something.

Mac is (correctly) concerned, that's all. Something is definitely odd if a hormone-riddled teenage boy doesn't even try to go beyond "first base" after dating a member of the appropriate sex for several months.

[dswallow]

Is he gay?

And what's the real deal with that DVD? (And I can't believe that the mayor didn't ask Keith if he made a copy)
But he kept saying Dick was there like that is what mattered.

[dswallow]

And what's up with those school lockers? Are they on an honor system and the locks have been disabled; it seems all everyone does is walk up to a locker and open it.

[quango]

The Beav really didn't freak completely until Mac mentioned Veronica. Maybe it has something to do with Shelley Pomeroy's party - remember (from S1's "A Trip to the Dentist") that Dick and someone else (I don't think it was Logan, but I could be wrong) tried to pressure him into having sex with Veronica after she'd been roofied. Maybe he got Issues about sex as a result.

Plus, they've already done the "'straight' guy turns out to be gay" thing once this season.

[brimtoast]

And what's the real deal with that DVD? (And I can't believe that the mayor didn't ask Keith if he made a copy)

I think that asking if Keith made a copy would probably be too suspicious and give away that there's something in the DVD that he would care if Keith saw. So he couldn't really do that without giving himself away. As to what's on the video, no idea, but I hope we find out next episode rather than the plot disappearing and coming back later.

[brimtoast]

The Beav really didn't freak completely until Mac mentioned Veronica. Maybe it has something to do with Shelley Pomeroy's party - remember (from S1's "A Trip to the Dentist") that Dick and someone else (I don't think it was Logan, but I could be wrong) tried to pressure him into having sex with Veronica after she'd been roofied. Maybe he got Issues about sex as a result.

My interpretation of that didn't gel until the second time through, but I think it's like this: Cassidy asks Veronica to investigate whether Kendall is cheating on his dad, then suddenly all his dad's secrets are exposed and Big Dick has to flee the country. If he has some secret related to his sex life, and Mac asks Veronica about it, he likely expects to suddenly find all *his* secrets exposed as well, which he seems to really really not want.

[Shakhari]

There's something shady about his real estate business ... he smirks and smugs everytime there's some mention of Kendal's name being on all the papers. I certainly wouldn't want Veronica snooping around me in that case.

[Jonathan_S]

Is he gay?

And what's the real deal with that DVD? (And I can't believe that the mayor didn't ask Keith if he made a copy)I can't believe that the mayor allowed Keith to just stick the DVD into his computer. Computers are much more that just DVD players, and a inserted disk could do anything on autorun.*

If it was Veronica I would have expected her to have used that to load something onto the Mayor's computer for information gathering purposes. (Of course, whoever made the DVD didn't necessarily make a pure video DVD either...)

But then I tend to be a tad paranoid about computer security.
OTOH the Sony "rootkit" CDs should have had that sort of thing on people's minds.

*And yes I know that you can disable or override autorun, but most people don't do so.

[TAsunder]

I was thinking to myself how lame it was that the fitzpatricks weren't going to kill thumper. How embarrasking for me when he was in the stadium. This was a really dark episode overall. Lots of skeletons in the closet. Good acting (especially Wallace) too.

The smoldering dance between veronica and logan was great. In fact, everything logan in this episode was great.

[dtle]

There's something shady about his real estate business ... he smirks and smugs everytime there's some mention of Kendal's name being on all the papers. I certainly wouldn't want Veronica snooping around me in that case.

It last week where the business teacher told the class that if incorporation goes through, the real estate market will drop, especially those own by Beaver's company.

[TAsunder]

Yep, that scene made me think beaver's up to some swindling of some sort.

[Peter000]

None of that explains why Beaver won't go any further physically with Mac. I don't think it's a gay issue... they've had more than their share of gay storylines this year, and they were even hinting about the Mayor swingin' that way this episode (the weightlifting scene with Logan). Or maybe the gay thing is a whole theme running through the season that will ultimately lead back to the Bus Crash somehow.

I was getting really frustrated with this episode until the very end when Thumper got imploded with the old stadium. Shocking and very very dark. It sort of brought everything together, with Logan being the one to detonate the explosives.

I could care less about the Wallace/Jackie storyline. His character has been a total bust this season. And I had to actually look up her name... I could not even recall it; that's how much of an impression she's made on me.

[Jonathan_S]

I was thinking to myself how lame it was that the fitzpatricks weren't going to kill thumper. How embarrasking for me when he was in the stadium.I figured out it was the stadium, but I'm wondering if there will be any problems for Logan when the Thumper is found, since he was the one who pushed the plunger that killed Thumper. (Either legal problems or PCH retribution)

There shouldn't be, since he was told to push it and as far as anyone knew the stadium was empty. And pretty much anyone could have decided to dispose of someone in the stadium, since the whole area knew it was being demolished.

But Logan did have a known beef with Thumper, so he might be a suspect just because of that.

[Peter000]

I figured out it was the stadium, but I'm wondering if there will be any problems for Logan when the Thumper is found, since he was the one who pushed the plunger that killed Thumper. (Either legal problems or PCH retribution)
It's questionable whether his remains will even be found. Even if they were looking, it would still be hard to find it. And his body would be pretty much goo after being crushed under tons and tons of rubble. But it is TV, so whatever is left of him probably will be found.

[mwhip]

One of the best episodes of the season.

I was really starting to love the Hannah/Logan storyline and relationship. Then they go ahead remind me how great Logan and Veronica are together. Those two actors have more chemistry being next to each other than most established couples on established shows. Dohring has turned into a hell of an actor.

But it will be interesting when Hannah shows back up.

Beaver just has intimacy issues I think from being ridiculed by his brother and all his friends all these years.

[TAsunder]

I wonder if beaver's name is beaver for a reason. I'll leave it at that.

[Amnesia]

Is he gay?But he kept saying Dick was there like that is what mattered.So that's a "yes" vote on the gay thing?

[lonwolf615]

It kinda made me wonder if Beav and Kendall have some kind of scam going and needed Mac's computer skills. So he's been dating Mac for that reason but had enough decency left to stop short of physical affection. Or maybe Kendall's living in his room? I dunno...but being gay seems too obvious and I agree they've already used that a lot this year. This show is too smart to drink from that well too often..in fact the gay themed ep. might have been used to set us up, to think Beav is gay, another red herring..
All I know for sure is I'm totally absorbed in the mystery(s), which have grown to be even more intriging than last year's. I thought last week's ep. was the best this year, maybe the best ever...and this one was even better. The show is running on all 8 cylinders now, and I think the turbo is about to kick in...

[dtle]

I almost forgot the most amusing scene: Veronica attempting to do the "shocker" and Weevil trying to correct her.

Actually, I was a little surprise that Veronica would even try it. Isn't it considered as profane as the middle finger?

[cherry ghost]

I almost forgot the most amusing scene: Veronica attempting to do the "shocker" and Weevil trying to correct her.

Actually, I was a little surprise that Veronica would even try it. Isn't it considered as profane as the middle finger?


and the "dirty sanchez' reference

[AJRitz]

What a great episode - just a few comments:
1) I think Beaver's reluctance to move things along with Mac have to do both with his desire to avoid being harassed about it by his brother and his desperate need to NOT be like his brother. I think Beaver is genuinely trying to "save himself." I also think he knows that ***** is eventually going to hit the fan over the real estate stuff, and he doesn't want to get physical with Mac and then have to run off and hide.

2) Beaver's real estate deals are DEFINITELY a long-grift designed to hang Kendall (and as many of the other 09er jerks - like Aaron Echols - as possible) out to dry. He knew exactly what he was doing with regard to his over-extended real estate investments and the effect of incorporation.

3) The mayor is in cahoots with the Fitzpatricks, though what the subject of their cooperation is remains to be seen. He wasn't the least bit surprised that there was a motorcycle chained up in the basement of the stadium, and I suspect he also knew Thumper was chained up in the bathroom. He was in a hurry to get the thing imploded, and destroy as much evidence as possible. I think Thumper probably knew something about their dealings that could have hurt big time.

4) What was on the DVD? I'm guessing here a bit, but I'd bet that one or more of the people around the table there in his house on the DVD was a Fitzpatrick, and the DVD showed whatever deal they're trying desperately to hide being consumated.

5) I think Terrance knows something about all of this too, but doesn't realize that he knows it (or at least doesn't know the significance of his knowledge). I think the Mayor is in on trying to take Terrance down, and probably in on trying to have Keith Mars go down with him. It's a huge poker hand, and he's going ALL IN - trying for some huge political and economic win AND to elminate all of his major opposition all at the same time.

[lonwolf615]

So, who made the dvd in the first place? That might mean a lot...

[TAsunder]

I didn't think it was the mayor who spotted the bike. Wasn't it the guy who reported that the bike was there to the mayor??

I think the DVD contained some audio that he didn't want to get out.

[AJRitz]

The mayor didn't SEE the bike, but when the messenger reported it to him he didn't look the least bit surprised, his questions about whether the building had been sealed off/searched sounded like they were asked specifically so that hte messenger could later testify that he'd asked them, and he didn't hesitate for a moment continuing with the demolition.

[Graymalkin]

I wonder if beaver's name is beaver for a reason. I'll leave it at that.

H'mm, intriguing idea.

[mwhip]

H'mm, intriguing idea.

Like he was given the choice when he was young to grow up as a male or female? Or that is parents just chose to raise him as male?

[Kevdog]

Couple of thoughts.
- We don't know for sure that Thumper was in the stadium. His bike was, but he could have been in a nearby building. (IOW, the Fitzpatrick's destroyed his bike and chained him up close to the demolition to send the message that he'd be dead if he ever crossed them again.)

- In the ep. where the gay kids on the chat board were being blackmailed, it was clear that not everyone got outed. Wasn't the baseball playing kid who was in the closet a friend of Beaver's?

- I like the Wallace character, but it's really hard to suspend my disbelief that he'd be a college basketball prospect. He's barely taller than Veronica and she's like 5'3".

[TAsunder]

Like he was given the choice when he was young to grow up as a male or female? Or that is parents just chose to raise him as male?

Who says he can't be a hermaphrodite? Or whatever his problem is. <--- obscure NYPD Blue quote.

[TAsunder]

Couple of thoughts.
- We don't know for sure that Thumper was in the stadium. His bike was, but he could have been in a nearby building. (IOW, the Fitzpatrick's destroyed his bike and chained him up close to the demolition to send the message that he'd be dead if he ever crossed them again.)

- In the ep. where the gay kids on the chat board were being blackmailed, it was clear that not everyone got outed. Wasn't the baseball playing kid who was in the closet a friend of Beaver's?

- I like the Wallace character, but it's really hard to suspend my disbelief that he'd be a college basketball prospect. He's barely taller than Veronica and she's like 5'3".

College prospect at a lesser known college, not hard at all to believe. I believe earl boykins is short too, 5'5" if I remember correctly.

[mwhip]

The hermaphrodite theory is much better than the other one I heard another board. That my maybe Woody molested him as a child!?! That one was just stupid.

[TAsunder]

The hermaphrodite theory is much better than the other one I heard another board. That my maybe Woody molested him as a child!?! That one was just stupid.

Well, especially because it was so specifically Woody and not just anyone. I guess they are remembering that creepy scene at woody's house.

[mwhip]

Well, especially because it was so specifically Woody and not just anyone. I guess they are remembering that creepy scene at woody's house.

I am trying to think though have they established any kind of connection to Woody and Beaver? Putting Woody and Beaver together makes me giggle. :D

[mwhip]

Pretty good recap in EW and he actually makes a convincing case for the Woody/Beaver molestation thing...

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/commentary/0,6115,1180897_+3_0_,00.html

[smak]

What is this, the year of the hermaphrodite? I think both House and Grey's Anatomy have had a storyline dealing with that this year.

As to the Woody/Beaver possibilities....Um, Woody...Beaver...

-smak-

[Zevida]

Wow, good episode. I so love the Veronica and Logan relationship. What an intense moment on the dance floor. They are so perfect for each other, and yet, so wrong for each other. Maybe I'm just jealous becaus Logan is so hot, I wish it was me :D

My mouth actually dropped open when I realized they were setting it up that Thumper was in the old stadium. I know someone has suggested that he might not have been there, but I doubt it. That was intense, and very dark, something this show does well without crossing the line.

My take was the Cassidy just has issues with intimacy - no doubt exacerbated by the unending teasing he takes from Dick, and that he would never be comfortable even shooting for second base just knowing Dick was in the same house. I wouldn't be suprised if there was something else, but I'm not getting the gay vibe. I think he blew up at Mac because he was so uncomfortable with the idea he flat out just can't handle even talking about it. Her mentioning that she had talked to Veronica gave him the excuse to get out of the conversation/relationship and blame it on her. Too bad, but no doubt we'll get some explanation of this before the season's out.

I flat out have no interest in any Wallace storyline.

And yes, the mayor feeling up Logan's arm was a little bit creepy. Okay, a lot creepy.

[porges]

What is this, the year of the hermaphrodite? I think both House and Grey's Anatomy have had a storyline dealing with that this year.And Nip/Tuck.

[Denise_Z]

Wow, I had now idea this many guys watched Veronica Mars.

I think Woody had something to do with the bus crash, but I'm just not sure how. I definitely think Thumper was in the mens room in the stadium. I can't say that I buy Wallace as a star basketball player either. I haven't really made up my mind about Beaver. He could be gay, but I think that might be overkill storyline wise.

[quango]

College prospect at a lesser known college, not hard at all to believe. I believe earl boykins is short too, 5'5" if I remember correctly.

Hearst is a liberal arts college, so it'd probably be D2/3 (probably D2, since he was talking about a scholarship - he couldn't get one for sports at a D3 school, although there are plenty of places that bend the rules) or NAIA; they'll take whoever they can get, as long as they're good and can make the grades.

And Muggsy Bogues played for Wake Forest in the ACC... and he's shorter than Wallace. Granted, that was 20 years ago.

[Magnolia88]

I loved this episode. Very dark and disturbing, but full of good stuff. Lots of clues to all the mysteries for the observant viewers. And the ending was amazing. Wow.

I am trying to think though have they established any kind of connection to Woody and Beaver? Putting Woody and Beaver together makes me giggle. :D

Do you remember the first episode of the season?

Woody gave a speech to all the kids who were on the field trip at Sharks Stadium and he started out by saying that he remembered a lot of the kids there from when he coached them in Little League.

Getting back to the DVD . . . remember the photos on the wall?

[Denise_Z]

No, what about the photos on the wall?

[Jesda]

Yeah, but Wallace is black.

[LoadStar]

Getting back to the DVD . . . remember the photos on the wall?

Ok, they were of the little league teams he's coached.... I guess I'm not following.

[brimtoast]

Well, being a little league coach does give him the opportunity to get close to a lot of young boys. Maybe I'm just thinking of the movie Mysterious Skin, but I made that connection. That would have given him an opportunity to be around young Dick and young Cassidy, when otherwise it would be difficult to figure out how he would pull it off.

[brimtoast]

I'm pretty sure this deserves its own thread, but not sure enough to actually make one for it: as of today, Veronica Mars has a podcast (http://www.neptunepirateradio.com/). The first episode talks about Plan B, along with segments on VM news, ratings, and music. I was pretty impressed.

[Zevida]

I'm pretty sure this deserves its own thread, but not sure enough to actually make one for it: as of today, Veronica Mars has a podcast (http://www.neptunepirateradio.com/). The first episode talks about Plan B, along with segments on VM news, ratings, and music. I was pretty impressed.

That's neat - are there any spoilers for future episodes? I usually watch the previews for the next episode, but I don't want anything that is a major plot spoiler.

[brimtoast]

No spoilers for future episodes. I listened to the whole thing, and I don't think they even referred to next week's previews.

[Rosenkavalier]

Wow, I had no idea this many guys watched Veronica Mars.

I could watch KB stamp her feet in frustration all night. :)

Question: I don't have the show on my TiVo anymore, so I can't wind it back -- wasn't there someone in a van outside the church who saw Thumper get taken down, and could ID Weevil as the one who set him up?

[Graymalkin]

Yes, there was.

[Amnesia]

wasn't there someone in a van outside the church who saw Thumper get taken down, and could ID Weevil as the one who set him up?Looked like two (Hispanic?) kids to me.

[djej1]

Question: I don't have the show on my TiVo anymore, so I can't wind it back -- wasn't there someone in a van outside the church who saw Thumper get taken down, and could ID Weevil as the one who set him up?

Yes

[dtle]

I have misgivings about Woody causing the crash. Remember, his daughter was supposed to ride the bus also. However, she was "saved" because one of the 09ers got a limo for the ride back. No matter how good he would've have planned it, that's an aweful chance to take with your own daughter.

[getbak]

I have misgivings about Woody causing the crash. Remember, his daughter was supposed to ride the bus also. However, she was "saved" because one of the 09ers got a limo for the ride back. No matter how good he would've have planned it, that's an aweful chance to take with your own daughter.

I thought he specifically told her not to ride the bus back.

[lonwolf615]

He did, as she stated to the sheriff in her interview after the crash. The scene practically screamed "MAJOR PLOT POINT" when they showed it. At the time I thought it was too obvious a clue, but now I'm not so sure...this show sure is sneaky...

[Magnolia88]

Well, being a little league coach does give him the opportunity to get close to a lot of young boys. Maybe I'm just thinking of the movie Mysterious Skin, but I made that connection. That would have given him an opportunity to be around young Dick and young Cassidy, when otherwise it would be difficult to figure out how he would pull it off.

I don't know anything about the movie, but I'm just mentioning some plot points that may be related.

Woody specifically mentioned in the first episode that he remembered several of the NHS students from when he coached them in Little League. Then on the DVD, the wall of Woody's house is shown in close-up, and there are several photographs of what appear to be Little League teams. Woody sure did want that DVD back pretty badly, and that gardener story seemed cooked up just so he could get the DVD back. The question is why? It seemed like Keith wasn't buying Woody's gardener story either and kept a copy of the DVD, just in case.

And then there was the scene of Woody rubbing Logan's arm and Logan looking very uncomfortable. That scene had to be there for a reason. I don't think the point was to show that Woody lifts weights.

[lonwolf615]

But do you think it is connected to the Beav? Or could it be someone else that died on the bus? Sort of a Laughing Policeman thing(old Walter Mathau film where the villian kills everyone on a city bus because one of them knows his secret) I agree a Woody=Beav connection looks likely. But the whole Beav-Mac romance is so sweet, I guess I'm hoping to see it develop further.

[dagap]

The video was made around November.

What time of year was the bus crash?

[Magnolia88]

But do you think it is connected to the Beav? Or could it be someone else that died on the bus?

Hmmm. How about both?

There obviously is something going on with Beaver that makes him uncomfortable with Mac, in a physical sense. Again, every scene in VM is there for a reason.

And tomorrow night's episode will focus on the students who died on the bus. We already know some of them but we will learn more about them. (This is the episode that I got to watch being filmed (http://magnolia888.livejournal.com/13374.html), so I can't talk about anything more specific than that. But it should be interesting.)

The video was made around November.

What time of year was the bus crash?

The bus crash happened during the first or second week of school, in early September, I think. Logan's party was in late September (the 24th? something like that) and it was just a week or two after the crash.