LOST "Dave" OAD 4/5/06 *spoilers*

[DevdogAZ]

Ep won't start for another 90 minutes here in AZ but it should have started on the East Coast so...

DISCUSS!!!

P.S. Since I started the thread, I decree that there be no running commentary posts. Just comment on the show after it's over, not all the way through. Thanks. ;)

[StrynBean]

All I can say is...about the last scene...HOLY CRAP!

[SeanC]

I don't think that quite describes it....... :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

[MikeMar]

Who else knew that Dave was made up by Hurley in about 5 min?

[scottykempf]

Whole episode kinda meh. So Hurley has a stash of food and Libby tells him to dump it???? They do know that they are stranded on an island, right? And might someday run out of food, right? Would hate to be the person who died because Hurley dumped the mayo.

Dave being not real, was pretty much telegraphed the whole ep. Libby being at the asylum was alluded to and/or hinted about weeks ago.

[StrynBean]

Whole episode kinda meh. So Hurley has a stash of food and Libby tells him to dump it???? They do know that they are stranded on an island, right?
Are they? Or is it all in Hurley's head? :confused:

[mightyb]

Who else knew that Dave was made up by Hurley in about 5 min?
...my wife called it out pretty quickly...

I'm glad they explained him as "imaginary"...

but Libby....AH.....nice....physco crazy thing now...

[ogden2k]

I very much enjoyed this episode. I don't understand the people here... so high on your TV critiquing horses.

[terpfan1980]

No. Comment.

Actually, I think tonite's show was a poke in the eye at all of the viewers. Seriously, they've given an out for the entire show now. It's all in Hurley's mind and nothing exists. Great, then why bother watching a fictional show about a fictional place that is all in the mind of a delusional over-eater?

Bleh.

[bigcb37]

Seriously...AWESOME EPISODE... I havent seen something this good on TV in forever...there are so many different ways they can go with this. Cant wait.

[pcguru83]

No. Comment.

Actually, I think tonite's show was a poke in the eye at all of the viewers. Seriously, they've given an out for the entire show now. It's all in Hurley's mind and nothing exists. Great, then why bother watching a fictional show about a fictional place that is all in the mind of a delusional over-eater?

Bleh.

Unfortunately I have to somewhat agree with this. Honestly, this was my initial reaction through most of the episode...I was thinking, "This can't be all there is to it. What a let down!" Yet at the same time, that ending was....WOW :eek: :eek:

As stated above, too much time, effort, and thought has been put into this show by the viewers for the writers to cop out with such an explanation. I'm holding out hope there's more to it than meets the eye.

[philw1776]

No. Comment.

Actually, I think tonite's show was a poke in the eye at all of the viewers. Seriously, they've given an out for the entire show now. It's all in Hurley's mind and nothing exists. Great, then why bother watching a fictional show about a fictional place that is all in the mind of a delusional over-eater?

Bleh.


Too soon to think they went the St. Elsewhere route

[ogden2k]

How can you say this is the writers way out? Why would they base an entire show off from someone's comma-dream? Please...

[mightyb]

Hurley kicking Sawyers ass while shouting out all the names he has called him was a riot...
And Charlie was a comedian as well tonight...

[Grumpy Pants]

Was that the St. E's route or Dallas or Dynasty? I thought that was Dallas. I thought this episode was lametastic until I saw her face turn down after they walked away from the cliff. I knew something was up in a sceond. I said to my wife "What is up with that look?". She had me rewind it to see which set-up the last scene as [valley girl] total shocker [/valley girl].


I thought that Henry's line "Not even god knows were here" (or something to that effect) was a great line to keep the purgatorians out there going.

[bellvis]

Hurley kicking Sawyers ass while shouting out all the names he has called him was a riot...
And Charlie was a comedian as well tonight...

The riot to me was seeing Jin enjoy the show.

[Grumpy Pants]

The riot to me was seeing Jin enjoy the show.

That had me in stitches too.

[Grumpy Pants]

Do we think Henry pressed the button?

[kyms66]

My Tivo shut down just as Hurley told Libby she looked familiar... Please, what did they say or do after that line!?

[MikeMar]

My Tivo shut down just as Hurley told Libby she looked familiar... Please, what did they say or do after that line!?

Um she kissed him, told him she was real.

They showed Hurley back in the nuthouse and you see Libby all wacked out taking meds in the same nuthouse

[bdlucas]

A nice wopping serving of ambiguity. Loved it!

[bigcb37]

No. Comment.

Actually, I think tonite's show was a poke in the eye at all of the viewers. Seriously, they've given an out for the entire show now. It's all in Hurley's mind and nothing exists. Great, then why bother watching a fictional show about a fictional place that is all in the mind of a delusional over-eater?

Bleh.

You guys really think its all in Hurley's head? No way...the Lost writers have more for us then just that...red herring... :rolleyes:

[uncdrew]

I enjoyed it.

What will Hurley have Jack, Locke and the gang up to next week. I can't wait to find out.

[Fish Man]

I'm not crazy - institutionalized
You're the one who's crazy - institutionalized
You're driving me crazy - institutionalized

They stuck me in an institution
Said it was the only solution
To give me the needed professional help
To protect me from the enemy, myself


--Suicidal Tendencies.

[bdlucas]

I enjoyed it.

What will Hurley have Jack, Locke and the gang up to next week. I can't wait to find out.
I like that thought. So what if it's all in Hurley's head? What's the difference whether black smoke monsters and smiley-face balloons are an invention of Hurley or an invention of the writers?

So I change my vote. A wopping dose of surrealism. Loved it!

[bryan314]

So have most of the main characters now 'seen' or 'hallucinated' someone or something from their past now. Is this an indication that they are all getting 'sick'?

[5thcrewman]

Did his uncle shoot Hurley in the gut? :rolleyes:

[weymo]

I really liked Lost until I saw some commentary about some of the writers saying that they would come up with a way to pull it all together...like they do not have a master storyline worked out. I wouldn't be at all surprised that as viewers grow tired on waiting for answers that are clever and that make sense and as ratings decline, that they writers who remain will take some lame way out--it's all in coma boy's head (St. Elsewhere), purgatory, fantasy island, projections of a psi-kid (pages of the comic book).
Does anybody else feel like the primrose path is overgrown?

[weymo]

So have most of the main characters now 'seen' or 'hallucinated' someone or something from their past now. Is this an indication that they are all getting 'sick'?

So it's the food right? The food is tainted and this is all some big experiment.

[bdlucas]

Does anybody else feel like the primrose path is overgrown?
I say stop and smell the primroses!

[yaddayaddayadda]

Who else knew that Dave was made up by Hurley in about 5 min?
Me

I actually thought it was a GREAT episode. Really just a tease to the fans of the show and various conspiracy theorists...

Think of all the things discussed on the hundreds of lost boards that was either explained or alluded to:

1) Blast doors closing b/c of the drop
2) Hurley never losing weight
3) No way a hottie falls for Hurley
4) What happens when someone doesn't push the button
5) The whole Island being in someone's imagination

[Dilerium]

Was that the St. E's route or Dallas or Dynasty? I thought that was Dallas. I thought this episode was lametastic until I saw her face turn down after they walked away from the cliff. I knew something was up in a sceond. I said to my wife "What is up with that look?". She had me rewind it to see which set-up the last scene as [valley girl] total shocker [/valley girl].



I kinda thought it was an "I can't believe I had to kiss him" look. Sort of like having to do something unpleasant in order to keep from blowing her cover. But she can't be an "other" since we know she came from the plane and we've seen her at the mental hospital.

[cherry ghost]

Do we think Henry pressed the button?


I do. He's playing with Locke and Locke believes everything he says.

[jkeegan]

{way-too-strong-politically-incorrect-opinion-mode}
Just wanted to say, before I gain my composure and decide to unsay it, that anyone complaining about this episode - in my opinion - won't ever enjoy the show. This was one of the best episodes yet this season - by far.. If you didn't like this, they're not going in the direction you've carved your hopes around.. I'm sorry for you, it's always disappointing when things don't go your way. Please bow out now rather than complaining that they didn't meet your specific narrow expectations, ruining others enjoyment of an incredibly entertaining show.
{/way-too-strong-politically-incorrect-opinion-mode}

Ok, now that that's out of the way - I hated this episode - they didn't answer anything! And what's with the Hurley actor's acting? He didn't look confused at all - horrible. Gale's discussion was weak, the fight with Sawyer was lame, and the..... wait.... I don't think any of that! I loved this episode!!

An avalanche of satisfying information, wonderfully insideously planted questions that will haunt us until the very last episode, an emotionally rich story, an incredible Locke/Henry exchange, and at the same time - lots of things to shut us up about the miscellaneous uninteresting questions like "why didn't he lose weight?", "where did the hatch get food from?", "why would she be with him?" and "when is hurley going to finally beat the %$# out of Sawyer?".. (ok, we probably didn't ask the last one too much).

I can't even start to think of the number questions we now have about Libby.. will she start losing it without meds now, or is she over them? Was she stalking Hurley, and that's why she was on the plane? Was she wondering the same thing he was about the numbers, when he went to Australia to ask the lady about her husband? Did she really become a doctor? Does she exist? (almost want to watch The Other 48 Days again).. At least we know that Hurley mentioned her to someone (something like "the blond chick seems kinda cute" or something).

Great episode.. I think I'll actually rewatch this one soon (haven't rewatched any episode for months now).. First, gotta finish reading the past two week's threads.

Awesome episode. Awesome.

..Jeff

p.s. Anna, get the hell out of Locke's hatch.

[pendragn]

Good episode. I'm dumb, I did't see Dave as an imaginary friend. I'm dumb, I was also surprised when Libby showed up in the nut hut. Yes, it was eluded to before, but actually seeing it was a shock.

Good episode, Lost has really picked up the last couple of weeks.

tk

[jkeegan]

Hey, did anyone else notice that Hurley was affected/plagued by the numbers before he even got to the insane asylum to hear them from Leonard?

The deck was built to hold 8 people, but there were 23 on it.. (presumably he was 23).. That's what got him into the institution.... ...where he met Leonard, and learned the numbers..

By the way, I loved the choice of actors for the therapist.. Bruce Davison played George Orr in The Lathe of Heaven, which seemed almost relevant/similar to Hurley's belief that this was all in his head, but maybe more relevant to Walt?

[e11m1c]

i'm convinced it all has to do with electromagnetism. go to www.wikipedia.org and search for lost. there are very interesting theories posted... a lot have to do with books read by the writers, and there are some obvious connections to some really weird (in a good way) aspects of some sci-fi books. one has to do with the effect of electromagnetism, insofar as it is theorized to cause the "melding" of personalities.... i.e., everyone is showing up in everyone else's imagination and memories because of their exposure to massive amounts of electromagnetic energy. this would give cause to question any and all of the flashbacks --- maybe they're only remembering each other because of their exposure to the electromagnetism on the island?

i am also pretty convinced that "henry gale" is trying to escape from the others. he took the real henry gale's identity so that he could pass among the crash-ees. he's clearly intimidated by the thought of returning to the others - he says that "he" is going to kill him. i think "he" refers to zeke.

[pendragn]

he says that "he" is going to kill him. i think "he" refers to zeke.
Didn't Jack say "The guy in the beard?" meaning Zeke and Henry say "He's nothing." I thought I took from that that he certainly WAS NOT referring to Zeke.

tk

[terpfan1980]

Call me crazy if you want, but here's where I'm thinking things stand.

L O S T == this movie (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0268978/) with Hurley in the John Nash (Russell Crowe) role (see this link (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0268978/quotes) for more info about that role.)

It may or not still be fun to watch in the future, but I think tonites episode bore just as much, if not more, resemblance to a shark jump as this week's episode of 24.

It seems as if the writers in Hollywood are sitting back on their duffs and laughing at the joke they're currently pulling over on all of us, the audience, and you know, they probably have a right to, since we buy this crap hook, line, and sinker.

[vertigo235]

Who else knew that Dave was made up by Hurley in about 5 min?

I was almost 100% sure, but once he took the picture I was positive, I even layed out the scene when he showed him the picture for my wife.

[vertigo235]

Didn't Jack say "The guy in the beard?" meaning Zeke and Henry say "He's nothing." I thought I took from that that he certainly WAS NOT referring to Zeke.

tk
Also in an earlier episode when claire was in medical facility we overheard Zeke talk about "him", so Zeke can't be "him" if he was afriad of what "he" would do.

[JYoung]

I can't even start to think of the number questions we now have about Libby.. will she start losing it without meds now, or is she over them? Was she stalking Hurley, and that's why she was on the plane? Was she wondering the same thing he was about the numbers, when he went to Australia to ask the lady about her husband? Did she really become a doctor? Does she exist? (almost want to watch The Other 48 Days again).. At least we know that Hurley mentioned her to someone (something like "the blond chick seems kinda cute" or something).



Well she interact with Ana Lucia too.
And she could be a psychiatrist and had to spend time in the loony bin.
A lot of mental health workers are screwed up (part of that is a hazard of the job).
On the other hand, maybe she's stalking him because of his money.

At least Cynthia Watros has experience playing against heavy guys.
First Drew Carey and now Jorge Reyes...

[brott]

Didn't the Hurley/Dave thing kinda resemble the Jack/Jack's Dad thing from the "White Rabbit" episode?

[lordargent]

That whole hurley-dumping-the-food scene, reminded me of the mustard man (http://www.missioncontrol-fx.co.uk/mission/images/MustardMan_big.jpg)

[MickeS]

I didn't see the twist about Dave not being real coming at all. Why would I have suspected that, were there any previous allusions to it? :confused:

This was an awesome episode. The final scene gave me goosebumps.

I don't think this is all in Hurley's head, but it was cool that the writers brought it up.

[DevdogAZ]

I loved the episode, but I hated how casual they seem to be with food. First, Hurley throws all his food on the ground, without even thinking about the rest of the people who would probably give just about anything for it. Next, the people fight over the food on the pallet, to the point that they are smashing things, and finally, Sawyer is trying to open up an Oreo and when it breaks, he just tosses it aside as if it's not good enough for him. What is up with that? Why would they be acting this way toward food?

I'm totally intrigued by the Hurley/Libby thing. I can't wait to see if this continues or if the next ep will go back to what we are used to and we'll be left to wonder for a long time about this episode.

[smak]

Call me crazy if you want, but here's where I'm thinking things stand.

L O S T == this movie (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0268978/) with Hurley in the John Nash (Russell Crowe) role (see this link (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0268978/quotes) for more info about that role.)

It may or not still be fun to watch in the future, but I think tonites episode bore just as much, if not more, resemblance to a shark jump as this week's episode of 24.

It seems as if the writers in Hollywood are sitting back on their duffs and laughing at the joke they're currently pulling over on all of us, the audience, and you know, they probably have a right to, since we buy this crap hook, line, and sinker.


To tell you the truth, I think the writer's are sitting back on their duffs and laughing at people who think that it's a real possibility that the whole show is just Hurley in the mental institution imagining everything.

-smak-

[bruinfan]

and at the same time - lots of things to shut us up about the miscellaneous uninteresting questions like "why didn't he lose weight?"
one could argue this was part of the plot line all along. They made it seem like they were just explaining his lack of weight loss nonchalantly, but in reality, his lack of weight loss is really a major plot line, as it is what ultimately forced him into the looney bin and his schizo was manisfested by eating.

I absolutely cannot wait to see how they piss off all the haters in the season finale!!! :rolleyes: Awesome episode. :up:

Has Eko been lifting? He seems a little buffer than I remember.

[teknikel]

I kinda thought it was an "I can't believe I had to kiss him" look. Sort of like having to do something unpleasant in order to keep from blowing her cover. But she can't be an "other" since we know she came from the plane and we've seen her at the mental hospital.

Libby gave that same look after should told Michael that Sawyer would be alright afte he passed out. That is where people got the idea that something wasn't right with her.

I couldn't tell if it was bad acting/editing or was meant to be shown that way. Still trying to decide.

kel

[Roadblock]

I didn't see the twist about Dave not being real coming at all. Why would I have suspected that, were there any previous allusions to it? :confused:

There were subtle clues. He actively encouraged Hurley to eat which is a strange thing for a real person to do. I saw it as the "devil" side of his conscience pretty quickly. When this thought occured to me, I then started paying attention to see if anyone else talked to or touched Dave. Nobody else acknowledged him except the doctor, who was pretty patronizing. When he busted out the camera, I knew for sure he was just getting proof for Hurley.

[Roadblock]

I loved the episode, but I hated how casual they seem to be with food. First, Hurley throws all his food on the ground, without even thinking about the rest of the people who would probably give just about anything for it. Next, the people fight over the food on the pallet, to the point that they are smashing things, and finally, Sawyer is trying to open up an Oreo and when it breaks, he just tosses it aside as if it's not good enough for him. What is up with that? Why would they be acting this way toward food?

My wife had the same reaction. They're on a deserted island and they are throwing away food? Pretty bizarre.

[TIVOSciolist]

They showed Hurley back in the nuthouse and you see Libby all wacked out taking meds in the same nuthouse

When Libby's roots start growing out, Hurley's going to figure out where he met her before.

[Roadblock]

To tell you the truth, I think the writer's are sitting back on their duffs and laughing at people who think that it's a real possibility that the whole show is just Hurley in the mental institution imagining everything.

-smak-

I agree. How can anyone watch this episode and still think it's going to be revealed as all taking place in Hurley's head? Sailed right over your heads I guess.

[getbak]

When Libby's roots start growing out, Hurley's going to figure out where he met her before.

Maybe she can ask Sawyer for his secret hair color stash (he seems to have everything else).

Or maybe Jin might be able to hook her up...

http://www.danieldaekim.org/graphics/gallery/misc/clairol.gif

[Redux]

why bother watching a fictional show about a fictional place that is all in the mind of a delusional over-eater?

Bleh.Because, as a culture, we are delusional and overeat, so many writers of fiction have those afflictions.

Oh, you probably meant the character Hurley, rather than the writers.

Well, it's been pretty much proven we will watch anything that has any intelligence and wit at all, and Lost is a net plus.

Maybe Hurley is autistic.

[fliptheflop]

I understand people wondering about Hurley just throwing the food around, but this is a guy with blood on his hands which he believes is because that he was to heavy and caused the deck to brake. Now with all that on his mind and its something thats been with him the food is his disease. You'd probably go crazy like that to. Its not just food its a reminder.

[Redux]

the writers ... are sitting back on their duffs and laughing at the joke they're currently pulling over on all of us, the audience, and you know, they probably have a right to, since we buy this crap hook, line, and sinker.Basically three possibiliities: 1. It's all a crapshoot from script to script, 2. There's _kinda_ a roadmap, with much clarity in basic direction and a notion of the destination, but with much undefined and plenty of flexibility to adapt to new ideas and audience feedback as we go along, 3. It's all predetermined and basically set in concrete.

As a viewer, do we care? And to the extent that I _do_ care, I prefer 1 or 2 over 3. If I'm entertained, I don't care what the writers' motives or opinions of my intelligence are. Let them have fun with us. But I think the fact is we're all in on the joke.

[emandbri]

Dave being not real, was pretty much telegraphed the whole ep. Libby being at the asylum was alluded to and/or hinted about weeks ago.

I don't remember this, do you remember more details?

I liked the episode, I knew Dave wasn't real right way you could see it in Hurely's eyes. I love the actor that played Dave, did anyone else watch the sitcom he was in with Jennifer Grey? It wasn't on long but I thought it was funny.

Emily

[balboa dave]

{way-too-strong-politically-incorrect-opinion-mode}
Just wanted to say, before I gain my composure and decide to unsay it, that anyone complaining about this episode - in my opinion - won't ever enjoy the show. This was one of the best episodes yet this season - by far.. If you didn't like this, they're not going in the direction you've carved your hopes around.. I'm sorry for you, it's always disappointing when things don't go your way. Please bow out now rather than complaining that they didn't meet your specific narrow expectations, ruining others enjoyment of an incredibly entertaining show.
{/way-too-strong-politically-incorrect-opinion-mode}
..JeffI can think of some other show threads for which this opinion applies, although maybe not as much as Lost. Very well said. :up:

[jehma]

Um she kissed him, told him she was real.

They showed Hurley back in the nuthouse and you see Libby all wacked out taking meds in the same nuthouse


Libby was watching the doctor take the photo of Hurley and "Dave" - they showed Hurley having his arm around an empty chair.

[stark]

I agree. How can anyone watch this episode and still think it's going to be revealed as all taking place in Hurley's head? Sailed right over your heads I guess.
I think it's all taking place in Libby's mind.

[mask2343]

Saw Dave not being real from the start. When they were playing basketball, nobody would pass it to him. That tipped my off.

I can't wait till the series finale if it ever comes. I think the show is so good now that they will NEVER be able to live up to expectations. Whatever the ending is that they come up with probably won't satisfy anyone here. I guess I don't have as much confidence in Hollywood as some of you. Some of the theories floating around are just too smart...and Hollywood is just not that smart.

[Big_Daddy]

At least Cynthia Watros has experience playing against heavy guys.
First Drew Carey and now Jorge Reyes...

I thought the same thing - why does she get paired with heavy guys? :rolleyes:

Great episode. It really answered some questions about Hurley's past, while also dropping subtle clues about the nature of the island and the hatch. I also saw that Dave wasn't realy (shades of Sixth Sense) but didn't expect Libby to be sitting there.

So Ecko's building something, huh? How much do you want to bet it's a church?

[TiVoSoFine]

Sawyer's line when he was joking about opening a mini mart:
"Do you think Sayid needs a job?" :D

[Carlucci]

Was the final scene Libby's flashback, or nobody's in particular?

If nobody's, Is this the first time that the writers have shown us a segment from the past that was NOT someone's flashback?

This could be important later if they ever try the old "these are implanted memories" trick.

[Jeeters]

Who else knew that Dave was made up by Hurley in about 5 min?It occurred to me in that very first conversation with the doctor when they were discussing Dave and we hadn't yet seen him. But I then dismissed it as soon as we saw Dave on the basketball court. When Hurley was eating the peanut butter and Dave appeared, then the imaginary friend idea occurred to me again and I then just was just watching the show for confirmation.

The thing that gave it away was the overuse of the word "Dave". When talking about Dave with the doctor, they always just referred to him by name; never used any pronouns like "he", "him". It made the dialog unnatural to me.

"Dave says..."
"Dave is a bad influence on you"
"But Dave told me"
"You can't believe Dave"
"Dave says I shouldn't listen to you"
Dave, Dave, Dave.

If they hadn't gone that route in the conversations, I woud have been totally fooled.

[markz]

I do. He's playing with Locke and Locke believes everything he says.

I believe Henry pushed the button because...

I believe in a podcast the creator of the show said that there would be definite ramifications of NOT pushing the button.

I also think that Henry is trying to get Locke & company to NOT push the button by convincing them that he didn't push the button.

Edited to fix an embarrasing spelling error.

[yaddayaddayadda]

That whole hurley-dumping-the-food scene, reminded me of the mustard man (http://www.missioncontrol-fx.co.uk/mission/images/MustardMan_big.jpg)

Me too!!!! :up: I was totally waiting for him to dip into some mustard.

[StrynBean]

I don't remember this, do you remember more details?

I liked the episode, I knew Dave wasn't real right way you could see it in Hurely's eyes. I love the actor that played Dave, did anyone else watch the sitcom he was in with Jennifer Grey? It wasn't on long but I thought it was funny.

Emily
He was in Sex and the City. He played Charlottes divorce lawyer/husband.

[Lee L]

I believe Henry pussed the button because...

I believe in a podcast the creator of the show said that there would be definite ramifications of NOT pushing the button.

I also think that Henry is trying to get Locke & company to NOT push the button by convincing them that he didn't push the button.


Well the sequence of events we heard last week and Henry described were identitcal to the other time they waited that long to push the button so either the button pushing (or lack of) does nothing that is obvious to the people there or he pushed just like the other time.

I suspected Dave was imginary all along. It was good to them actually confirm something absolutely for once.

This was a great episode and I think they have really moved things in the last 3. Of course, they have given rise to plenty of new questions as well.

[TR7spyder]

Saw Dave not being real from the start. When they were playing basketball, nobody would pass it to him. That tipped my off.


Yep, that is when I knew he was fake. It sort of made an entire episode worse for me, since I kept waiting for that revelation to come out... I also hate dream/hallucinations sequencies, so this wasn't my favorite episode :(.

I found that all the humor (mostly from Sawer) was a bit odd. Not that I didn't like it (it was funny), but the volume of it seemed out of place, since they have never done it to this extend. But as a sitcom, I loved this episode :D.

[Big_Daddy]

I also think that Henry is trying to get Locke & company to NOT push the button by convincing them that he didn't push the button.

I thought that too, but now I'm not so sure.... Clearly Henry knew what would happen if the button wasn't pushed - at least as far as the hieroglyphics popping up were concerned. So either he didn't push it and he was being truthful (a BIG assumption for this character), or the others were involved with the hatch before, and didn't push it, OR they were involved in creating the hatch.

Regarding what happens - either nothing happens (as he described) or "something bad" happens. But as he's trapped in the hatch - why would he want them not to push it and have something bad happen in the hatch? He clearly does not want to die. So he may be telling the truth.

The other option is that something potentially undesirable happens, but the hatch itself is not affected. And although it may be generally undesirable, it may help Henry out of whatever trouble he's in. Hmmmm....

[Donbadabon]

I believe Henry pussed the button because...

You are correct.
People here should listen to the podcasts, that way we wouldn't have to listen to the Purgatory, St Elsewhere theories that keep popping up.

[cwoody222]

So Ecko's building something, huh? How much do you want to bet it's a church?

Didn't the previews last week that showed scenes from 'upcoming' episodes (not just the next week) show...



the castaways building another raft?

[bdlucas]

To tell you the truth, I think the writer's are sitting back on their duffs and laughing at people who think that it's a real possibility that the whole show is just Hurley in the mental institution imagining everything.
I think the writers are laughing their asses off at people who talk as if the phrase "real possibility" is meaningful in connection with a show that is the product of the writers' imaginations. :)

In other words, this episode was a big reminder that it's just a show.

[reggers]

I don't remember this, do you remember more details?

I liked the episode, I knew Dave wasn't real right way you could see it in Hurely's eyes. I love the actor that played Dave, did anyone else watch the sitcom he was in with Jennifer Grey? It wasn't on long but I thought it was funny.

Emily

Yes - it was a funny show - too bad it didn't last it was called "It's Like, You Know..." (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0168340/?fr=c2l0ZT1kZnx0dD0xfGZiPXV8cG49MHxxPWl0J3MgbGlrZSB5b3Uga25v d3xteD0yMHxsbT01MDB8aHRtbD0x;fc=1;ft=20)

[MikeMar]

-Knock Knock
-Who's there?
-Hey man it's me Dave open up
...
-Knock Knock
-Who's there?
-Comeon man it's Dave open up, I think the cops saw me
-Dave?
-Yeah man open up
-Dave's not here man

[RunnerFL]

No. Comment.

Actually, I think tonite's show was a poke in the eye at all of the viewers. Seriously, they've given an out for the entire show now. It's all in Hurley's mind and nothing exists. Great, then why bother watching a fictional show about a fictional place that is all in the mind of a delusional over-eater?

Bleh.

I totally disagree...

There have been way too many stories that don't involve Hurley for it to even be close to a possibility that it's in his head.

If it's in his head explain the back stories...

This is by no means their "out" for the series.

[emandbri]

You are correct.
People here should listen to the podcasts, that way we wouldn't have to listen to the Purgatory, St Elsewhere theories that keep popping up.

Thanks!

I didn't know there was a podcast, maybe this will help that empty feeling I'm having without my battlestar galactica podcasts!

Emily

[snifred]

Anybody catch Dave's line to Hurley right before he jumped? "See you in another life." Exactly what Desmond said to Jack in the stadium, and also what he said right before running away from the hatch. Hurley wasn't there for those two scenes, so why would his imaginary friend say the same thing?

I think the Dave on the island is different from the imaginary Dave in the institution. Desmond's story about a race around the world could be a lie for all we know, and his real "job" is on the island. He pretended not to know Jack right away, and used the same story to be consistent. But he was involved in getting Jack to the island for whatever reason they are there. Someone at the institution was working behind the scenes to have Hurley conjure up "Dave." Maybe there really was a Dave at the institution, he was nice to Hurley when no one else was, and then he left to go back to the island. Hurley kept Dave as his imaginary friend so he wouldn't be lonely. Then the Dave on the island is the real Dave, which is why he used Desmond's line.

They all have someone who is their connection to the island from their previous lives, and those people are all part of the Dharma group.

[SoldOnTivoToo]

Or maybe all of them have been enrolled in an Hanso experiment where their bodies are asleep (or in a coma) somewhere and they share the same delusion controlled and monitored by outsiders. Would also work with Henry's obsession about not telling anything because his boss will know, even though he's shacked up in a gun closet.

I was definitely not disappointed with this episode. I did not see Dave as a made up character although I did recognize him right away from Sex and the City.

[Fish Man]

Me

I actually thought it was a GREAT episode. Really just a tease to the fans of the show and various conspiracy theorists...

Think of all the things discussed on the hundreds of lost boards that was either explained or alluded to:

1) Blast doors closing b/c of the drop
2) Hurley never losing weight
3) No way a hottie falls for Hurley
4) What happens when someone doesn't push the button
5) The whole Island being in someone's imagination

Hurley has often been the vehicle through which the writers address the internet speculation of the fan base.


Hurley's conversation with Arzt last season about how everything focuses on about a dozen people while there are 40+ castaways.
Hurley and Libby, in a previous episode, commenting on how the washer and dryer in the hatch were modern while everything else in the hatch dated to the 70's.
Hurley's comment to Sayid about a radio transmission: Sayid: It could be coming from anywhere. Hurley: Or any time. [long cheeky pause] Just kiddin' dude!
etc. etc.


When speculation is dead wrong (IMHO, of course), it is usually Hurley who is the vehicle for making fun of the "dead wrong" speculation on the part of the fans. Examples include the "Or any time" comment and the notion that the whole thing is in Hurley's (or anyone's) imagination. (I agree with posters who've pointed out, if it's all in Hurley's (or anyone's) imagination, what's with all the flashbacks on multiple characters?!)

Some other comments:

I'm pretty sure Cynthia Watros (http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0914475/) is naturally a blond so "roots growing out" would have to be simulated.

Who's to say Libby didn't have naturally blond hair dyed brown when she was committed to the asylum?

I suspected that Dave was imaginary, but wasn't sure until the therapist showed Hurley the photo. In most shows it would be painfully obvious. On Lost, I don't take anything for granted! ;)

Who the heck is the "him" that the other's are all terrified of?

Possibilities:


Alvar Hanso: Based on his bio on the Hanso Foundation web site, he'd be well into his 90's or even over 100 years old. However, one of the Hanso Foundation projects (from the web site) was the "Life Extension Project", so who knows!? ;)
Gerald DeGroot: The orientation film suggested that he is the "technical director" of the Dharma Project. However, the "technical director" may have to answer to a higher up bean-counter (like Alvar Hanso or some right-hand-man of his). So, if the mysterious "him" is not DeGroot, I still suspect Zeke may be DeGroot, with or without the fake beard.
Dr. Candle?: What's his role in the whole thing? Since the writers/directors went out of their way to show us his prosthetic arm, I strongly suspect we'll meet him "in person" some day. Is he Hanso's "right hand man" that I allude to above?


It's starting to look more and more like at least some of the "others" are unwilling captives and participants in all this. Clearly Alex fits into this category.

Perhaps almost all of the others crashed on the island in planes or ships and were captured by Dharma people for some nefarious purpose (like Walt, Alex, and the tailie children who were taken).

Finally. I think fake-Henry pushed the button. He's playing with Locke, trying to trick him into not pushing the button. Fake-Henry knows a lot about the hatch he's not telling (yet).

[Donbadabon]

Thanks!

I didn't know there was a podcast, maybe this will help that empty feeling I'm having without my battlestar galactica podcasts!

Emily

The Offical Lost Podcast is fantastic. They will go into some details that aren't even caught here on TCF. Definately worth a listen.


The Official Lost Podcast (http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/podcasts/105662.html)

[xuxa]

I thought it was interesting that Hurley was sitting in front of a nice picture of a tropical island in the doctors office.

[TAsunder]

Who else knew that Dave was made up by Hurley in about 5 min?

Dunno when 5 minutes was, but I figured it out about 5 seconds into the first mental ward scene with Dave in it.

[EMoMoney]

No. Comment.

Actually, I think tonite's show was a poke in the eye at all of the viewers. Seriously, they've given an out for the entire show now. It's all in Hurley's mind and nothing exists. Great, then why bother watching a fictional show about a fictional place that is all in the mind of a delusional over-eater?

Bleh.
Not at all. The whole point of Hurley making up Dave in his mind is to avoid reality, specifically his eating disorder. Like any person with a disease that is not being treated, the disease escalates or gets worse. Hurely brings Dave back into his life to try and convince himself to end his own life. He tries to convince himself that this is all in his mind, trying to avoid reality. If anything, I think this validates the fact that they really are on this island and it's not just somebody's imagination.

[mask2343]

Gerald DeGroot: The orientation film suggested that he is the "technical director" of the Dharma Project. However, the "technical director" may have to answer to a higher up bean-counter (like Alvar Hanso or some right-hand-man of his). So, if the mysterious "him" is not DeGroot, I still suspect Zeke may be DeGroot, with or without the fake beard.
Didn't Ethan call "Zeke" by his real name in the Claire epidsode? And it wansn't DeGroot's name?

[voripteth]

Once we got done watching the episode we rewound to see if Dave interacted with anyone else. For the most part he didn't but there was one exception!

When the nurse bring Hugo's medicine she looks at the numbers guy, Hugo and then Dave! Perhaps it was an acting mistake but she definitely looked at Dave.

[glumlord]

I cant remember the exact words of the conversation but I thought they were important.

Henry Gale was describing what happened after he didn't hit the button.

He said it sounded like a huge magnet, I thought it was a strange thing to say especially because of the magnetism research that the foundation did, and also because of the obvious magnetic effects when jack first discovered hatch/tunnel area.

Do you think the magnet perhaps was involved in the release of the food/drop?

Also we know he's an other so either he's telling truth that he didn't tell button or the others definately have some inside knowledge of hatch

[Fish Man]

Didn't Ethan call "Zeke" by his real name in the Claire epidsode? And it wansn't DeGroot's name?

He never called him by name in any of the conversations we heard.

I watched several times, trying to identify him (Zeke). There was no positive ID or name mentioned in their conversations, and few clues to his identity.

If Ethan had given him a name, we wouldn't all still be calling him "Zeke" or "Mr. Friendly!" ;)

All we know from that episode about Zeke is:


The beard's fake.
Zeke appears to be Ethan's "boss" in the structure of the "others", but not the top boss.
Zeke and Ethan are terrified of a mysterious "him" as is fake-Henry.


FWIW: In the official show credits, Zeke is credited as "bearded man" in the first two shows in which he appears, and as "Mr. Friendly" in "Maternity Leave."

[Rob Helmerichs]

Perhaps almost all of the others crashed on the island in planes or ships and were captured by Dharma people for some nefarious purpose (like Walt, Alex, and the tailie children who were taken).
Yeah, it seems bizarre to me that people say "So-and-so can't be an Other, because he crashed on the island." As far as I'm concerned, anybody could be or become an Other (Charlie?).

The Dave business strikes me as being potentially as brilliant as the Buffy episode that it seems borrowed from. In that case, they establish the possibility that the whole series is just a hallucination in Buffy's mind. They never come back to it, so we are free to accept the series on its own term, and if we can't, then accept it as a crazy girl's fantasy. On the other hand, the Buffy thing was more ambiguous--I got the distinct impression that with Dave, in the end they weren't trying to be ambiguous.

And did they ever say that if they don't enter the numbers, something BAD will happen? It has certainly been inferred, but I'm not sure it's ever been implied, or fklat-out said. Maybe somehting wonderful will happen! :D

[BeanMeScot]

I didn't see the twist about Dave not being real coming at all. Why would I have suspected that, were there any previous allusions to it? :confused:

This was an awesome episode. The final scene gave me goosebumps.

I don't think this is all in Hurley's head, but it was cool that the writers brought it up.

I saw it immediately. What tipped me off was the way Hurley acted when he saw him at the food. He didn't point and ask anyone who that was (at first I thought he was an other). Instead, he just ran after him without saying anything to anybody. And then the way everyone ignored Dave while they were playing basketball. I knew we would see the picture later and there would be no one there.

[TAsunder]

I don't recall any mention of her being a patient in a mental hospital in previous episodes. Please elaborate for those of us who apparently can't remember everything.

[ScottE22]

I thought it was pretty much a given from the start that Dave wasn't real. As soon as Hurley walked onto the basketball court someone threw him the ball right over Dave's head as if he wasn't there... To me the tension came more from the possibility that he might be real.

That's why the real shocker to me would have been if the doc passed Hurley the picture and Dave was in the picture.

Un-LOST-related: I've never been to one of those institutions, but why is it that the writers always portray institutionalized people as spending the entire day in PJs and bath robes? I'm not a therapist, but if the goal is for some of them to re-enter the "real world," wouldn't you want them to dress as normally as possible for their day?

[dtle]

I was hoping that Sayid and Ana Lucia were playing their own version of good cop / bad cop. But there was no indication of it, so Sayid is getting pretty crazy now.

[Cboath]

Who else knew that Dave was made up by Hurley in about 5 min?


My wife did... But I didn't agree with her. They talked about Dave on the podcast and talking about the actor and stuff I guess made him too real for me. I didn't think he was fake. WOW did she razz we when they showed he was fake. :o

[TAsunder]

Do we know that sayid would have killed him? I mean come on, we've all seen 24, we know that shooting people in the shoulder is just good interrogation technique.

[KRS]

Bruce Davison played George Orr in The Lathe of Heaven, which seemed almost relevant/similar to Hurley's belief that this was all in his head, but maybe more relevant to Walt?

Thank you - I knew he looked familiar, and I just watched Lathe a couple years ago.


I thought this was a great episode. All the wasting of food annoyed me as well, but the show has always been a bit cavalier about how 40+ people are staying fed.


I thought Sayid and A_L were playing good cop/bad cop with "Gale," but it really looked like he would have shot Gale for real if she hadn't intervened.


I'm thinking that Libby saw Hurley win the money on TV and remembered him from her stay in the mental hospital. And now that they are stranded together, she is pretending to like him to ensure a payday in case they get rescued. The real question about Libby is - was she stalking Hurley by being on the flight/in Sydney in the first place.

[Fish Man]

I don't recall any mention of her being a patient in a mental hospital in previous episodes. Please elaborate for those of us who apparently can't remember everything.

In an earlier episode (I think it was the scene where they were doing laundry together and commented that the washer and dryer were too modern) Hurley says to Libby, "Do I know you from somewhere?"

This led some to speculate that she may have been a patient at the mental hospital.

However, she claims to be a clinical psychologist, so I thought, at the time, that it was more likely that she had been a therapist there!

So, I was caught by surprise that she was a patient!

So, is she really a clinical psychologist, or is she lying about that?

It's possible for a clinical psychologist to succumb to a mental disorder that requires them to be a mental patient, of course...

[MikeMar]

I don't recall any mention of her being a patient in a mental hospital in previous episodes. Please elaborate for those of us who apparently can't remember everything.

I think it was just that Hurley kept saying that he remembered her from somewhere

[unicorngoddess]

I thought it was pretty much a given from the start that Dave wasn't real. As soon as Hurley walked onto the basketball court someone threw him the ball right over Dave's head as if he wasn't there... To me the tension came more from the possibility that he might be real.



I had this crazy idea that maybe Dave is, in fact, real. That Dave and the doctor are working for dahrma and it was a plot to make Hurley think he's really crazy. (The popular the whole thing is a psycholgy experiment) Because for an imaginary friend, he sure was abusive! What if the Doc really photoshoped dave out of the picture...just like dave suggested. When Dave escapes from the asylum, he joins the others awaiting the round up of all these survivors. So Dave jumps off the cliff...but what if, as some have speculated, there is an underwater hatch? And Libby didn't see Dave, but she's obviously crazy...maybe she was too busy focusing on Hurley to notice anyone else there anyway.

And as far as making a big deal of Hurley wasting all that food...that's just crazy talk. They're on a TROPICAL island. There's no danger of them running out of food any time soon. And I think I would choose fruit and mango over ranch dressing and mayo any day. I don't think anyone was in danger of starving to death because Hurley dumped all his condiments and some crackers. They've got an expert fisherman (Jin) and a self-proclaimed expert hunter (locke) so between the two of them I just don't think anyone is in danger of starving to death. And honestly, if I were Hurley, I would have done the same thing. Its just like what Charlie had to do with his drug stash.

[markz]

I'm thinking that Libby saw Hurley win the money on TV and remembered him from her stay in the mental hospital. And now that they are stranded together, she is pretending to like him to ensure a payday in case they get rescued. The real question about Libby is - was she stalking Hurley by being on the flight/in Sydney in the first place.

I like this theory.

And I think if this theory is true, then it was no coincedence that she was on the flight. I can't imagine two people who spent time in an institutution somewhere just happened to be coming back from Australia on exactly the same flight. Of course stranger things have happened!

[BeanMeScot]

Imaginary figures seem to be important in the Lost world. First we have Jack's Dad, then Kate's horse and now Hurley's patient buddy. That's why I think Dave was real to the extent that he can be real on the island. Kate was able to touch and pet the horse. Of course, Sawyer was able to see the horse as well and it doesn't seem anyone else was able to see Dave or Jack's dad.

[ScottE22]

...
So, is she really a clinical psychologist, or is she lying about that?
...

Well - didn't she help Claire with some regression therapy in "Maternity Leave"? I don't think just anyone can do that so she must have some formal psychological training. Maybe she just "LOST it" ;) and ended up in the asylum.

[EMoMoney]

Well - didn't she help Claire with some regression therapy in "Maternity Leave"? I don't think just anyone can do that so she must have some formal psychological training. Maybe she just "LOST it" ;) and ended up in the asylum.
Maybe she's experiencing something like Locke. Lock was paralyzed, but now can walk. Libby was a mental patient, now she has the ability to diagnose and treat disorders.

[Cboath]

So Ecko's building something, huh? How much do you want to bet it's a church?


I am pretty sure it is. Wasn't he marking all the trees with a cross? Or was it an X? I can't remember.

[reggers]

...

And as far as making a big deal of Hurley wasting all that food...that's just crazy talk. They're on a TROPICAL island. There's no danger of them running out of food any time soon. And I think I would choose fruit and mango over ranch dressing and mayo any day. I don't think anyone was in danger of starving to death because Hurley dumped all his condiments and some crackers. They've got an expert fisherman (Jin) and a self-proclaimed expert hunter (locke) so between the two of them I just don't think anyone is in danger of starving to death. And honestly, if I were Hurley, I would have done the same thing. Its just like what Charlie had to do with his drug stash.

But if you're stuck on an island for 50 some odd days with 40 some odd people...fruit , mangos, etc would just get old after a bit....it's always good to have something different - especially it looked like some of the foods were non-perishables.

(I can't believe I just put that down as a response - gosh do we take this stuff too seriously or what.)

[Fish Man]

Maybe she's experiencing something like Locke. Lock was paralyzed, but now can walk. Libby was a mental patient, now she has the ability to diagnose and treat disorders.

I was thinking this too. Several of the "losties" are not what they seem to the other losties!

[unicorngoddess]

But if you're stuck on an island for 50 some odd days with 40 some odd people...fruit , mangos, etc would just get old after a bit....it's always good to have something different - especially it looked like some of the foods were non-perishables.

(I can't believe I just put that down as a response - gosh do we take this stuff too seriously or what.)

All of it may get old...even the ranch dressing. My point was more directed towards the comment someone made about the person that could have died because hurley dumped his stash. Fish and mangos may get old after a while but it WILL keep you alive. And in the end I think fish and magos would sustain you more than ranch dressing.

[pmyers]

I absolutely LOVED this episode.

I did think it was weird when "Henry" made his comment about it "sounding like a big magnet"....what does that mean? What the heck does a big magnet sound like?

[MikeMar]

I like the idea someone said about how the magnet would be used to pull down the supply drop, help direct it in :)

(as well as planes and hot air ballons)

[pmyers]

I do have to wonder why Jack & Crew would just have left those supplies out there after they had found them that night. Wouldn't they know that it would cause a "riot"?

[goMO]

No. Comment.

Actually, I think tonite's show was a poke in the eye at all of the viewers. Seriously, they've given an out for the entire show now. It's all in Hurley's mind and nothing exists. Great, then why bother watching a fictional show about a fictional place that is all in the mind of a delusional over-eater?

Bleh.


uh, okay... so you'd rather watch it because its real??!!! :D

[Donbadabon]

I had this crazy idea that maybe Dave is, in fact, real. That Dave and the doctor are working for dahrma and it was a plot to make Hurley think he's really crazy. (The popular the whole thing is a psycholgy experiment) Because for an imaginary friend, he sure was abusive! What if the Doc really photoshoped dave out of the picture...just like dave suggested.

They showed us actual video at the end of the epsiode, where Hugo put his arm around an empty chair as the Doc was taking his picture.

So that proves Dave was not there.

[Jeeters]

Well - didn't she help Claire with some regression therapy in "Maternity Leave"? I don't think just anyone can do that so she must have some formal psychological training. Maybe she just "LOST it" ;) and ended up in the asylum.She may bbe saying she's a clinical psychologist because she can easily fake it... she's perhaps spent so much time in getting therapy herself, that she knows how to imitate and talk like her doctors.

[MickeS]

Thank you - I knew /Bruce Davison/ looked familiar, and I just watched Lathe a couple years ago.


Of course, Bruce Davison has been in tons of stuff, so it'd be hard to find him unfamiliar at this point. His biggest role in terms of exposure is probably as the anti-mutant senator in "X-Men".

[Cboath]

Thank you - I knew he looked familiar, and I just watched Lathe a couple years ago.



The first thing I remembered him as was the Senator (or whatever) in X-Men.

[Fish Man]

She may bbe saying she's a clinical psychologist because she can easily fake it... she's perhaps spent so much time in getting therapy herself, that she knows how to imitate and talk like her doctors.

I was thinking about this movie:

http://www.spun.com/amgcover/dvd/full/t3/21/t32166gt1ae.jpg

;)

[jkeegan]

I absolutely cannot wait to see how they piss off all the haters in the season finale!!! :rolleyes: Awesome episode. :up:
LOL!

[jkeegan]

You are xxxxx.
People here should listen to the podcasts, that way we wouldn't have to listen to the xxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxx theories that keep popping up....and you should spoiler tag stuff like that, because not every one of us wants to hear stuff from the podcasts.

[TR7spyder]

And as far as making a big deal of Hurley wasting all that food...that's just crazy talk. They're on a TROPICAL island. There's no danger of them running out of food any time soon. And I think I would choose fruit and mango over ranch dressing and mayo any day. I don't think anyone was in danger of starving to death because Hurley dumped all his condiments and some crackers. They've got an expert fisherman (Jin) and a self-proclaimed expert hunter (locke) so between the two of them I just don't think anyone is in danger of starving to death. And honestly, if I were Hurley, I would have done the same thing. Its just like what Charlie had to do with his drug stash.

I guess you are not a big Survivor fan... Even with producers slipping them food through the reward challenges, I have seen those people turn into walking skeletons in a little more than a month! And most of those Survivor seasons were set in the "TROPICAL island" setting!

[Cboath]

I was thinking about this movie:

http://www.spun.com/amgcover/dvd/full/t3/21/t32166gt1ae.jpg

;)


Hehe, good call. Love this movie!!

[scheckeNYK]

Has anyone considered that despite Mr. Friendly's beard being fake, there is another Other with a beard that Fake Gale is referring to as "nothing." Of course Mr. Friendly still refers to and perhaps fears "him," but we don't know how high up on the food chain Fake Gale is. The "him" that each character refers to is not necessarily the same guy.

[philw1776]

I thought it was pretty much a given from the start that Dave wasn't real. As soon as Hurley walked onto the basketball court someone threw him the ball right over Dave's head as if he wasn't there... To me the tension came more from the possibility that he might be real.

That's why the real shocker to me would have been if the doc passed Hurley the picture and Dave was in the picture.




I agree. THAT would have been a great closing scene with Doc showing Hurley the pic including Dave AND Libby sitting there on her meds.

All-in-all a decent episode with the best stuff being the fight with Sawyer with Hurley shouting out all his hated nicknames, Henry's continued mindgames (to us a more polite term) with Locke regarding pushing the hatch button and the ending with Libby on meds.

[cherry ghost]

I like the idea someone said about how the magnet would be used to pull down the supply drop, help direct it in :)

(as well as planes and hot air ballons)


The magnet could also be used to hold the blast doors up.

[DevdogAZ]

Was the final scene Libby's flashback, or nobody's in particular?

If nobody's, Is this the first time that the writers have shown us a segment from the past that was NOT someone's flashback?

This could be important later if they ever try the old "these are implanted memories" trick.
I don't think it's ever been conclusively established that the flashbacks are memories of the Losties. I've never considered them to be "memory" flashbacks but rather "story" flashbacks, meaning that they're simply showing us what happened in each character's previous life, but not necessarily from that person's memory. This would explain why we see stuff in the flashbacks that the character's couldn't/wouldn't have known, like Sawyer being dragged through the police station.

[EMoMoney]

Another question I thought of. What will happen when Hurley actually remembers where he's seen Libby before?

[stevieleej]

Could Libby possbily working with Dharma the way we think Desmond might be. Just because we saw her at the mental hospital doesn't mean she's crazy. I still think she's an other.

[xuxa]

Is the Polaroid the same as the reality



http://www.lost-media.com/modules/coppermine/albums/ep-caps/season2/2x18-dave/3/normal_dave-caps298.jpg

http://www.lost-media.com/modules/coppermine/albums/ep-caps/season2/2x18-dave/5/normal_dave-caps443.jpg


Note the polaroid looks like night and there is no man in the background hmmm...

[TAsunder]

If the flashbacks are not from a particular character's perspective then we would not have seen Dave ever.

I have no considered there being two men with beards because this is not Frasier and no writer would introduce a mistaken identity thread into dialogue like that, I would hope. If there were two men with beards I doubt fake-Henry would have assumed it was one or the other.

[Kevdog]

Is the Polaroid the same as the reality



http://www.lost-media.com/modules/coppermine/albums/ep-caps/season2/2x18-dave/3/normal_dave-caps298.jpg

http://www.lost-media.com/modules/coppermine/albums/ep-caps/season2/2x18-dave/5/normal_dave-caps443.jpg


Note the polaroid looks like night and there is no man in the background hmmm...
And the celery plate is rotated...

[bruinfan]

http://www.lost-media.com/modules/coppermine/albums/ep-caps/season2/2x18-dave/3/normal_dave-caps298.jpg

http://www.lost-media.com/modules/coppermine/albums/ep-caps/season2/2x18-dave/5/normal_dave-caps443.jpg

and Hurley is further away from the table and the robes aren't arranged the same

[DVDerek]

I'm thinking that Libby saw Hurley win the money on TV and remembered him from her stay in the mental hospital. And now that they are stranded together, she is pretending to like him to ensure a payday in case they get rescued. The real question about Libby is - was she stalking Hurley by being on the flight/in Sydney in the first place.

Me too.

[xuxa]

Basically three possibiliities: 1. It's all a crapshoot from script to script, 2. There's _kinda_ a roadmap, with much clarity in basic direction and a notion of the destination, but with much undefined and plenty of flexibility to adapt to new ideas and audience feedback as we go along, 3. It's all predetermined and basically set in concrete.

As a viewer, do we care? And to the extent that I _do_ care, I prefer 1 or 2 over 3. If I'm entertained, I don't care what the writers' motives or opinions of my intelligence are. Let them have fun with us. But I think the fact is we're all in on the joke.

#2 is correct as the writers have specifically said this is how they write it and that what we see is reality and not a character's imagination.

[unicorngoddess]

Is the Polaroid the same as the reality



http://www.lost-media.com/modules/coppermine/albums/ep-caps/season2/2x18-dave/3/normal_dave-caps298.jpg

http://www.lost-media.com/modules/coppermine/albums/ep-caps/season2/2x18-dave/5/normal_dave-caps443.jpg


Note the polaroid looks like night and there is no man in the background hmmm...

Also the guy sitting in front of the window in the background isn't in the polaroid either...

[DevdogAZ]

If the flashbacks are not from a particular character's perspective then we would not have seen Dave ever.

I have no considered there being two men with beards because this is not Frasier and no writer would introduce a mistaken identity thread into dialogue like that, I would hope. If there were two men with beards I doubt fake-Henry would have assumed it was one or the other.
The flashbacks are shown for the purpose of telling the story. If it serves that purpose to show something from a specific character's perspective, they do so. If it serves the story better to show something from more of a third-person perspective, they do that. I don't think we're supposed to take anything from the particular perspective of any of the flashbacks, but rather we're simply supposed to learn more about each character's background prior to getting on Flight 815.

[DVDerek]

and Hurley is further away from the table and the robes aren't arranged the same

Hurley being further away from the table is easily explained. The original capture (the top picture) was taken slightly BEFORE the picture was snapped. If you'll remember, Dave was making a sort of "Rock-On" gesture with his hands when the picture was taken and Hurley sorta turned to look at him for a second. This would have taken him further from the table, I think.

Perhaps the person in the back who is missing is another one of Hurley's imaginary friends. Hurley tells Libby he has "an imaginary friend" but maybe he had more.

I can't explain why the medicine cup is in a different location. Okay, well I can, actually. They shot the scene with Dave the Actor. Dave got up, then they shot the picture. Stuff moved. It was sloppy. I really think that's what this is. They let it slide to drive people like us nuts.

[Fish Man]

Is the Polaroid the same as the reality



http://www.lost-media.com/modules/coppermine/albums/ep-caps/season2/2x18-dave/3/normal_dave-caps298.jpg

http://www.lost-media.com/modules/coppermine/albums/ep-caps/season2/2x18-dave/5/normal_dave-caps443.jpg


Note the polaroid looks like night and there is no man in the background hmmm...

I feel sorry for the continuity people on this show.

No TV show in history has ever been analyzed down to the last screen pixel like "Lost" is! ;) :D

[markz]

I don't think it's ever been conclusively established that the flashbacks are memories of the Losties. I've never considered them to be "memory" flashbacks but rather "story" flashbacks, meaning that they're simply showing us what happened in each character's previous life, but not necessarily from that person's memory. This would explain why we see stuff in the flashbacks that the character's couldn't/wouldn't have known, like Sawyer being dragged through the police station.

That's how I see it too. If it were the character's memory, then we wouldn't see the actual character in the flashback. We'd see everything through their eyes.

[markz]

and Hurley is further away from the table and the robes aren't arranged the same

Actually one picture is of Hurley and the other is of the guy that hung out in the diner on "Becker". :)

[Rojma]

Hurley being further away from the table is easily explained. The original capture (the top picture) was taken slightly BEFORE the picture was snapped. If you'll remember, Dave was making a sort of "Rock-On" gesture with his hands when the picture was taken and Hurley sorta turned to look at him for a second. This would have taken him further from the table, I think.

Perhaps the person in the back who is missing is another one of Hurley's imaginary friends. Hurley tells Libby he has "an imaginary friend" but maybe he had more.

I can't explain why the medicine cup is in a different location. Okay, well I can, actually. They shot the scene with Dave the Actor. Dave got up, then they shot the picture. Stuff moved. It was sloppy. I really think that's what this is. They let it slide to drive people like us nuts.

The "differences" between the photo and the video shot has a lot to do with photography.

First off, there is a guy in the background. Hurleys head is partially obscuring him and he is very dark but you can make him out.

Second, the angle, lens type, and lighting of the photo can greatly affect how two different photos look of the same exact shot at the same exact moment.

As an example, if someone shot a photo of a subject at the same exact time as you did with the same exact make and model camera/lens but they were 20 feet back and zoomed in on them so they were the same "size" as in your picture, the two photos would be drastically different. I searched the Net for an example but could not find one (I have a few photo books that show the difference).

With that said, the two "pictures" were taken by two drastically different devices at different heights and angles (a high end HD (or possibly film) video camera vs a low end (and crappy) Polaroid still camera) . This would result in some of the anomalies that people are describing.

For the person saying it was day vs night in the pictures, this is just the result of the low end Polaroid camera not being able to capture enough light and take good indoor pictures. This is why the flash is used - to get enough light to make the subject visible.

Of course the final thing is that obviously in real life the two pictures were taken at different points in time after an actor had moved out of the picture. There are going to be slightly different things that naturally appear - items slightly moved and actors not quite positioned the same. I guess they could of used digital special effects to make everything "match" but was it really worth the cost and effort???? I guess the producers should know that the fans are going to look at everything and scrutinize every little detail, but in this instance I think some people are reading way too much into the "differences" in the two photos.

[MikeMar]

Here is the reason why the 2 pics are different

They were taken at 2 different times, one w/ dave, and one w/o dave. They didn't do one shot and photoshop dave out, they just did 2 takes or more of it. Not a big deal, let it go.

[MickeS]

Is the Polaroid the same as the reality
http://www.lost-media.com/modules/coppermine/albums/ep-caps/season2/2x18-dave/3/normal_dave-caps298.jpg
http://www.lost-media.com/modules/coppermine/albums/ep-caps/season2/2x18-dave/5/normal_dave-caps443.jpg
Note the polaroid looks like night and there is no man in the background hmmm...


Also the guy sitting in front of the window in the background isn't in the polaroid either...


And did you see that in the picture, there is no man in a chair in front of the window.

[cheesesteak]

I thought this episode was way below average. Hurley destroying his cache of food was stupid. There are 40 other people on that island who would have enjoyed what was in theose containers. If Dave is imaginary, why can he throw coconuts at Hurley that connect and hurt on impact? I lost interest in the flashbacks once it became blatanly clear that Dave was all in Hurley's mind.

I thought the concept of this episode was stolen from the Lost episode where Jack saw his father on the island.

We now have two instances of the counter going to zero and the red heiroglyphic symbols appearing and nothing happening when doom was prophesized. I know the writers are going to pull something out of their asses to explain it, but that's exactly what it's going to seem like to me: the writers pulling "brilliant" explanations out of their asses.

And there's no way the hot chick hooks up with Hurley. That part was like watching an ABC Afterschool Special.

[DreadPirateRob]

The Dave business strikes me as being potentially as brilliant as the Buffy episode that it seems borrowed from. In that case, they establish the possibility that the whole series is just a hallucination in Buffy's mind. They never come back to it, so we are free to accept the series on its own term, and if we can't, then accept it as a crazy girl's fantasy. On the other hand, the Buffy thing was more ambiguous--I got the distinct impression that with Dave, in the end they weren't trying to be ambiguous.

Agreed. "Normal Again" (the aptly described as brilliant Buffy episode yo mentioned) popped into my head almost immediatlely once I figured out what was going on with Hurley. And you're right - the ending of "Dave" was far less ambiguous than the ending of "Normal Again", which I still don't know what to make of.

[Lee L]

The "differences" between the photo and the video shot has a lot to do with photography.


As an example, if someone shot a photo of a subject at the same exact time as you did with the same exact make and model camera/lens but they were 20 feet back and zoomed in on them so they were the same "size" as in your picture, the two photos would be drastically different. I searched the Net for an example but could not find one (I have a few photo books that show the difference).


Of course the final thing is that obviously in real life the two pictures were taken at different points in time after an actor had moved out of the picture. There are going to be slightly different things that naturally appear - items slightly moved and actors not quite positioned the same. I guess they could of used digital special effects to make everything "match" but was it really worth the cost and effort???? I guess the producers should know that the fans are going to look at everything and scrutinize every little detail, but in this instance I think some people are reading way too much into the "differences" in the two photos.

I agree that the difference is probably unintentional, but I am attaching 2 pictures I took at Disney that demonstrate the effect you are talking about. I am on the same line, the only difference is the distance/zoom level. Another demo of this is the scene in Jaws where Schieder is on the beach and they zoom in as he realizes the Kintner boy has been chomped.

[jkeegan]

and Hurley is further away from the table and the robes aren't arranged the sameOk but jokes about our own overanalysis aside, what are people suggesting - that the doctor faked the picture by having Hurley pose for TWO pictures, one where there's a Dave there, and another one later at night where he isn't, and then Hurley forgets the second one somehow? Clearly that was the production team's best quick effort to create the same photo but without Dave there.

Plus, again, it doesn't matter - the last scene clearly shows Dave is imaginary, and shows the doc taking that picture (with Libby witnessing it).

[TAsunder]

I'm guessing that there really is no huge need for a big tub of mayo, some corn chips, and potato chips. If hurley had destroyed mostly healty foods that might be different.

[Greg K.]

actually, not just the man it looks like the entire table behind him isn't there in the polaroid. You can't see below the window in the video shot.

But it's almost certainly different just because it wasn't important enough to make it match perfectly. (I say "almost" because this is, after all, Lost)

[TAsunder]

Seriously, if they had digitally erased dave then people would be saying that it IS digitally erased because of X, Y, Z. There was no way for them to take the exact same picture, one with dave, one without, with zero differences otherwise.

[cwoody222]

If Dave is imaginary, why can he throw coconuts at Hurley that connect and hurt on impact?

I thought the concept of this episode was stolen from the Lost episode where Jack saw his father on the island.

We now have two instances of the counter going to zero and the red heiroglyphic symbols appearing and nothing happening when doom was prophesized.

And there's no way the hot chick hooks up with Hurley. That part was like watching an ABC Afterschool Special.

No one threw anything at Hurley and there was no connect and hurt... it was Hurley's imagination.

Jack seeing his father was completely different. Jack isn't mentally ill and Jack's father is dead (recently). Jack also didn't interact with his "father". Hurley is creating a reality in his mind. Jack was halucinating (whether due to mystical forces, stress, whatever).

We do not hae two instances of teh counter going to zero. Last time Locke caught it *just in time*. And this time, Henry could easily be lying.

Sure there's a way the "hot chick" hooks up with Hurley... cause she's crazy, cause she's using him, cause she's an other, etc.

[Guindalf]

I feel sorry for the continuity people on this show.

No TV show in history has ever been analyzed down to the last screen pixel like "Lost" is! ;) :D


You've obviously never watched an episode of Star Trek!

[bruinfan]

I was just commenting on the pic.
I don't think it's anything.

[bruinfan]

Sure there's a way the "hot chick" hooks up with Hurley... cause she's crazy, cause she's using him, cause she's an other, etc.
Obviously, it's cuz he's rich :D

[TAsunder]

Why feel sorry for them? They brought it on themselves in the way they structure the story. If they didn't give us so little details, we wouldn't be grasping onto them. If they didn't make the details cryptic, that might help too. Sorry, but putting up red hieroglyphics instead of a real revelation is going to make us analyze them.

[UBUBUB]

This episode reminds me of the Simpsons episode several years back where Homer and Bart go to the Super Bowl. That entire episode was written as an homage to the online Simpson community, even including the expressions "Bumble Bee Man" and "Comic Book Guy" as were coined on the boards. I honestly think this episode was a wink and a shout out to all of us who take this show just a . . . little . . . too . . . seriously.

[Fish Man]

And there's no way the hot chick hooks up with Hurley. That part was like watching an ABC Afterschool Special.

I'm mystified at all the people saying it's "impossible" for a hot chick to be interested in an overweight guy.

I see hot chicks on dates with or married to ugly dudes all the stinkin' time in real life.

Not everyone, male or female, is that superfluous, shallow, and crass.

As I mentioned in another thread on this board within the week: A friend of mine has a name for the phenomenon of a hot babe being interested in an ugly guy: "Larry Fine Syndrome." He came up with it after seeing a mega-uberhot babe on the arm of a guy who looked like Larry Fine (Larry from the Three Stooges).

[bruinfan]

As I mentioned in another thread on this board within the week: A friend of mine has a name for the phenomenon of a hot babe being interested in an ugly guy: "Larry Fine Syndrome." He came up with it after seeing a mega-uberhot babe on the arm of a guy who looked like Larry Fine (Larry from the Three Stooges).
Obviously, it's because he's rich :D

[TAsunder]

Thank god not everyone is superfluous, or nothing would ever get done.

[Fish Man]

You've obviously never watched an episode of Star Trek!

Star Trek crossed my mind. But, in it's day there weren't internet discussion boards with readily available screen grabs on the net that people could use to pick apart every continuity flaw.

No one even had a VCR! There was only one's memory to go by to spot the continuity flaws, and then you had to wait for the summer re-runs for confirmation. (Back then there were about 36 episodes per season, not 24 like now.)

I'm an old enough geezer that I watched ST:TOS in it's first run on NBC! ;)

[cwoody222]

(Back then there were about 36 episodes per season, not 24 like now.)

30, 26 & 24 actually (seasons 1, 2 & 3 of TOS, respectively) :D

[JYoung]

No one even had a VCR! There was only one's memory to go by to spot the continuity flaws, and then you had to wait for the summer re-runs for confirmation. (Back then there were about 36 episodes per season, not 24 like now.)

I'm an old enough geezer that I watched ST:TOS in it's first run on NBC! ;)

Actually, Season 1 had 28 production episodes and the second pilot.
Season 2 had 26 episodes and Season 3 had 24 episodes.

[Lee L]

Star Trek crossed my mind. But, in it's day there weren't internet discussion boards with readily available screen grabs on the net that people could use to pick apart every continuity flaw.

No one even had a VCR! There was only one's memory to go by to spot the continuity flaws, and then you had to wait for the summer re-runs for confirmation. (Back then there were about 36 episodes per season, not 24 like now.)

I'm an old enough geezer that I watched ST:TOS in it's first run on NBC! ;)


I know. Imagine if Twin Peaks came out now!!

[bigcb37]

I'm mystified at all the people saying it's "impossible" for a hot chick to be interested in an overweight guy.

I see hot chicks on dates with or married to ugly dudes all the stinkin' time in real life.



If TV has taught me anything, it's that fat ugly guys are married to hot wives all the time...and typically hilarity ensues. ;)

[Guindalf]

I'm an old enough geezer that I watched ST:TOS in it's first run on NBC! ;)

I watched it in the UK when it was first shown at 6:00pm on BBC2! I was too young to pick it apart until much later though.

Anyway, back to the topic....

I'm convinced that the writers have a framework in which they work and they can mould it any way they need to in order to misdirect where necessary. It wouldn't surprise me if they have a team whose job it is to scour the message boards for theories so they can add something to a later show to cast doubt on it!

The biggest problem with this show is that they CAN'T reveal what's actually behind it all without ending the show! I have a fear that it'll get cancelled somewhere down the line without a lot of questions being answered and we'll all be left hanging!

As for Hurley dreaming it all, I'd rather be in a dream where I had a hot chick for a girlfriend than being fat and lonely in real life!

(for the record, I AM fat, but not lonely thanks to a fantastic wife who just called me at the office for no other reason than to tell me she loves me!).

[JYoung]

30, 26 & 24 actually (seasons 1, 2 & 3 of TOS, respectively) :D

28 regular production episodes for Season 1 plus the second pilot = 29.
The Cage was actually production number 1 which of course wasn't aired until recut for the two part The Menagerie.
Where No Man Has Gone Before was production number 2 and was aired.

[Cboath]

28 regular production episodes for Season 1 plus the second pilot = 29.
The Cage was actually production number 1 which of course wasn't aired until recut for the two part The Menagerie.
Where No Man Has Gone Before was production number 2 and was aired.


Oh crap.... didn't this same discussion prevent the class from going back to the 3rd grade???? :eek:

[unicorngoddess]

Ok but jokes about our own overanalysis aside, what are people suggesting - that the doctor faked the picture by having Hurley pose for TWO pictures, one where there's a Dave there, and another one later at night where he isn't, and then Hurley forgets the second one somehow? Clearly that was the production team's best quick effort to create the same photo but without Dave there.


HEY! That's a great theory! Maybe the doc hypnotised Hurley late at night and had him pose for that picture. :D

[bdlucas]

I have a fear that it'll get cancelled somewhere down the line without a lot of questions being answered and we'll all be left hanging!
On the contrary, I think that would be absolutely the best possible ending.

[stevieleej]

30, 26 & 24 actually (seasons 1, 2 & 3 of TOS, respectively) :D

Actually, Season 1 had 28 production episodes and the second pilot.
Season 2 had 26 episodes and Season 3 had 24 episodes.

Nerds. ;)

BTW, Libby is still an other.

[CraigEagle]

My input on "Dave", all speculation

In Hurley's mind Dave was a patient at the Mental Hospital. We had no indication that Dave had ever been "seen" by Hurley prior to being put in the hospital. This means that Dave did not start appearing in Hurley's mind until AFTER he was presumably taking whatever "medication" the hospital was giving him. It is noteworthy that the same day that Hurley stops taking the medication he also stops seeing Dave.
On the Island Hurley did not see Dave until he began eating the Dharma food. Also noteworthy is that Dave appeared each time exactly when Hurley would begin to binge on the Dharma food.
- Craig

[Guindalf]

Nerds. ;)


What have small candies got to do with anything???????

[GDG76]

My input on "Dave", all speculation
...
Also noteworthy is that Dave appeared each time exactly when Hurley would begin to binge on the Dharma food.


Yes but it was clearly established that Dave would show up anytime Hurley needed to rationalize his eating. He couldn't binge eat until the Dharma food showed up and he only recently started to feel guilty ( I personally think his guilt surfaced because he fell for Libby and in his mind, she can only fall for him if he is slimmer). Dave came back as his defense mechanism to rationalize his eating only when he felt guilty about it- had nothing to do with what was in the food or his meds.

[ethos42]

my big question is still: What happened to the monster/security system?!?

[Donbadabon]

Didn't they dynamite it in an earlier episode?

[FauxPas]

I don't think this has been mentioned yet - one of the numbers:
23 other people were on the deck with Hurley when it collapsed.

[twincaminferno]

Again - why hasn't Locke told Jack about the map on the blast door?? If only the Losties would talk to each other...geez!

I did notice though that Hurley only saw Dave each time he ate something or had to do with food. Maybe they drug people in different ways (whatever their weakness is)

[stark]

The real question about Libby is - was she stalking Hurley by being on the flight/in Sydney in the first place.
But Hurley was the last person on the plane and it was a last minute scramble to get on that flight.

She would have had to be on the plane already and accurately guessed that Hurley would pick and make the flight.

If she was really stalking him, she wouldn't get on a plane if she wasn't sure he was going to be on it.

[gchance]

Again - why hasn't Locke told Jack about the map on the blast door?? If only the Losties would talk to each other...geez!

I did notice though that Hurley only saw Dave each time he ate something or had to do with food. Maybe they drug people in different ways (whatever their weakness is)

He's too busy telling Jack not to tell him what he can't do... or the new version of it, that he doesn't want a wheelchair.

If you were Locke, would you tell Jack ANYTHING at this point?

Greg

[teknikel]

But Hurley was the last person on the plane and it was a last minute scramble to get on that flight.

She would have had to be on the plane already and accurately guessed that Hurley would pick and make the flight.

If she was really stalking him, she wouldn't get on a plane if she wasn't sure he was going to be on it.

And that brings me back to the question: Was she or wasn't she on the plane? She could have heard the story about him getting on the plane from any of the "Tailees" and embellished for her "evil" purposes. I agree with stevieleej, until otherwise refuted, Libby=Other.

[Kevdog]

(for the record, I AM fat, but not lonely thanks to a fantastic wife who just called me at the office for no other reason than to tell me she loves me!).

Go ahead, rub it in... ;)

[Kevdog]

HEY! That's a great theory! Maybe the doc hypnotised Hurley late at night and had him pose for that picture. :D

He could have been taking Ambien and was just "sleep eating..."

[TAsunder]

So now she's an other because she likes hurley?

[Delta13]

I do have to wonder why Jack & Crew would just have left those supplies out there after they had found them that night. Wouldn't they know that it would cause a "riot"? Cause Jack is used to having interns do the grunt work. Last week I thought he was regaining the leadership role but he fell down on this one.

What a bunch of modern geeks. It's kinda hard to Photoshop a Polaroid photo. It's precisely why they chose that camera, I'm sure. :D

As a Dave myself, I liked this one. And Mike already posted the "Dave's not here" line. They obviously meant this episode to rule out someone imagining the entire thing. And count me as one who thinks that Bugeye didn't push the button. And there was even a nod to the Losties not talking to each other, when Charlie asked if anyone heard a plane and Sawyer said "Sure I did - I just chose not to tell anyone."

No one has commented on the side effects of Clonazepam ...

Side effects that you should report to your prescriber or health care professional as soon as possible:
•confusion
•depression
•double vision or abnormal eye movements
•hallucinations (seeing and hearing things that are not really there)
•lightheadedness or fainting spells
•mood changes, excitability or aggressive behavior
•movement difficulty, staggering or jerky movements
•muscle cramps
•restlessness
•tremors
•weakness or tiredness

He better hope Dharma has a good mail order prescription plan!

[pmyers]

Libby=Other

[rhuntington3]

All I can say is...about the last scene...HOLY CRAP!

That's what I said to my TV this morning when I watched it. WOW!

[JYoung]

Libby=Other

Nope, don't buy it.
We saw Libby come out of the water with Ana Lucia.
Unless she was planted on the plane and caused it to crash, that would be the only way it work.
And it would still be one hell of a gamble.

[spelcheker]

"him" =





(wait for it)










The DEVIL!!!!

[cwoody222]

Nope, don't buy it.
We saw Libby come out of the water with Ana Lucia.
Unless she was planted on the plane and caused it to crash, that would be the only way it work.
And it would still be one hell of a gamble.

Maybe she's an "Other" operative from the "real world". Presumably all of the current "Others" (any and all of the groups) were from the world at some point.

And presumably some of them may have real world contact and maybe even the ability to leave and return to the island.

If the "Others" caused the airplane to crash Libby could have been a "plant". Of course, ensuring her survival seems like a big continuity hole and I don't see what the point would be... but who knows!

Semi-related... not really a spoiler but more than just my speculation so I'll spoiler it just in case...



Haven't the writers/producers stated that we (the audience) WILL find out the cause of the crash before the end of this season? That pretty much sounds like it wasn't just an accident.

[jkeegan]

I don't think this has been mentioned yet - one of the numbers:
23 other people were on the deck with Hurley when it collapsed.Smeek.. In this post (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3924697&&#post3924697) I mentioned that not only were there 23 people on the deck when it broke, but it was only built to hold 8, and that that was an example of Hurley being involved with the numbers before he learned them from Leonard.

[cwoody222]

Smeek.. In this post (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3924697&&#post3924697) I mentioned that not only were there 23 people on the deck when it broke, but it was only built to hold 8, and that that was an example of Hurley being involved with the numbers before he learned them from Leonard.



But haven't the producers said that some of the appearances of the numbers have significance (like being on the Hatch and needed for the button) but other times they just throw them in there as a little nod to the audience?



I've always gone under the assumption that if ALL the numbers appeared in a "major" way, it's important to the story.

But if a soccer team runs by with numbers coincidentally on their jerseys than it's just a "hey cool!" thing for the audience.

Of course, the debate could be what is "major" and what isn't.

[DevdogAZ]

My input on "Dave", all speculation

On the Island Hurley did not see Dave until he began eating the Dharma food. Also noteworthy is that Dave appeared each time exactly when Hurley would begin to binge on the Dharma food.
- Craig
This makes no sense. Hurley has been eating the Dharma food for some time. As far as we know, he never saw Dave during that time. Hurley didn't see Dave on the island until after he had resolved to stop binging on the Dharma food and had actually gotten rid of it all. Then, when he had basically overcome his addiction by getting rid of the substance, thus making it impossible for him to give in again, suddenly their supplies are replenished and the huge obstacle that he had just overcome was suddenly staring him in the face again.

[kbrunsting]

I haven't read the whole thread but.... I get it.... everyone's connected, everyone is linked to everyone else. I'm to the point where I really don't care how anymore....we know they're connected, let's move on.

I like the show, I like the actors... but its just too drawn out. I'll probably skip tivo'ing it next year and just rent the dvd's instead.

[KRS]

But Hurley was the last person on the plane and it was a last minute scramble to get on that flight.

She would have had to be on the plane already and accurately guessed that Hurley would pick and make the flight.

If she was really stalking him, she wouldn't get on a plane if she wasn't sure he was going to be on it.

That's an interesting point. If she was indeed stalking him, maybe she got on the plane knowing that Hurley was also booked on it. Then, as it got closer and closer to departure, she anxiously waited to see him coming through the doors.

In an earlier episode, she made a comment that her foot had been stepped on by someone in the original group, even though she was a tailie. Perhaps she was so worried that Hurley was not going to make the flight that she got up and sat near the door, ready to get off if he didn't make it. Then, after she knew he was onboard, she returned to her original seat in the back.

And there's no way the hot chick hooks up with Hurley. That part was like watching an ABC Afterschool Special.

I guess you hated the episode so much that you didn't pay attention for the last few minutes.

[Fish Man]

And that brings me back to the question: Was she or wasn't she on the plane? She could have heard the story about him getting on the plane from any of the "Tailees" and embellished for her "evil" purposes. I agree with stevieleej, until otherwise refuted, Libby=Other.

If Libby is an other, how do you explain her being a patient at the same mental hospital as Hurley?

I suppose that she could have come to the island "recently", like Desmond. But, that would make her, at most, a "recent recruit of the others."

IMHO, Libby's being at the mental hospital greatly reduces the likelihood that she is an "other" and increases the likelihood that she was on the plane with all the rest of the "losties".

[unicorngoddess]

I just noticed something...

Last week we heard Jack tell Sawyer:
"At least I'm not in your head."

This week Dave tells Hurley:
"Are you letting that doc get inside your head?"

I don't know if there've been any more "inside your head" references...but maybe that's the writers way of hinting to us that its NOT inside someone's head.

[smak]

IMHO, Libby's being at the mental hospital greatly reduces the likelihood that she is an "other" and increases the likelihood that she was on the plane with all the rest of the "losties".

The problem with that is why is Libby in Australia?

That's a much bigger coincidence than any of the chance encounters between castaways we've seen.

The only other one that comes close to the fact that a patient at Hurley's mental hospital is on the same flight as him back from Australia, is the Jack/Desmond encounter back in the states, and that Desmond is in the hatch.

What are the other face to face meetups before the flight? Didn't they all take place in Australia?

-smak-

[bruinfan]

What are the other face to face meetups before the flight? Didn't they all take place in Australia?

-smak-
Jack and Shannon crossed paths at the hospital

[Fish Man]

The problem with that is why is Libby in Australia?

That's a much bigger coincidence than any of the chance encounters between castaways we've seen.

The only other one that comes close to the fact that a patient at Hurley's mental hospital is on the same flight as him back from Australia, is the Jack/Desmond encounter back in the states, and that Desmond is in the hatch.

What are the other face to face meetups before the flight? Didn't they all take place in Australia?

-smak-

Locke's mother was in the same mental hospital as Hurley and Libby.

Shannon's father was the other driver involved in the accident that broke Jack's ex-wife's back, and who died because Jack made the decision to focus on her.

Hurley owns the box company that Locke worked for.

There are several other examples of connections between the losties in places other than Australia.

Why was Libby in Australia? There are lots of losties whom we don't know why they were in Australia.

If not knowing why she was in Australia makes her an "other", than half of our characters are others.

The "evidence" that people are coming up with to suggest Libby is an "other" is so nebulous, IMHO, that you could speculate about the unknowns of any of the other losties and make an equally "strong" case that they are an other.

I really, really don't see it.

Some have suggested that her interest in Hurley is evidence that she is an "other".

Her interest in Hurley might be exactly what it seems. She likes him.

For those who insist that their must be an ulterior motive for her interest in Hurley, a far more likely "ulterior motive" would be that she knows he's a big lottery winner (because she saw the reports of his win on TV), not that she is an "other".

[markz]

If TV has taught me anything, it's that fat ugly guys are married to hot wives all the time...and typically hilarity ensues. ;)

Don't forget, there's usually a hot sister or a dumpy brother too!

[greg_burns]

Her interest in Hurley might be exactly what it seems. She likes him.

But what about that face she made at the end of the scene? That was intentional for sure.

I thought this episode was lametastic until I saw her face turn down after they walked away from the cliff. I knew something was up in a sceond. I said to my wife "What is up with that look?". She had me rewind it to see which set-up the last scene as [valley girl] total shocker [/valley girl].

[Fish Man]

But what about that face she made at the end of the scene? That was intentional for sure.

I interpreted the "face" as worry.

That, combined with the final scene suggests that she's worried that Hurley might remember where he's seen her before. She doens't want him to remember her that way. IMHO, that's the most obvious interpretation of the "face" she made.

She could be worried about this regardless of her motives for paying attention to him, be they innocent or ulterior.

Bottom line, I think there's zero credible evidence Libby is an "other". All "evidence" presented to this effect has been a huge stretch, IMHO.

I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other as to whether she simply "likes" Hurley, or has ulterior motives for paying attention to him.

[bruinfan]

But what about that face she made at the end of the scene? That was intentional for sure.
Yeah, that face wasn't evildoer face. Fake Henry Gale, now that's a face of someone with bad intentions.

[greg_burns]

Yeah, that face wasn't evildoer face.

http://greg_burns.home.comcast.net/thelook.png

:rolleyes:

[pallendo]

Me me me!!! Of course, I'll claim that I knew Bruce Willis was dead about 30 minutes into "The 6'th Sense".

-Peter

Who else knew that Dave was made up by Hurley in about 5 min?

[JMikeD]

Me me me!!! Of course, I'll claim that I knew Bruce Willis was dead about 30 minutes into "The 6'th Sense".

-Peter

WAIT! Bruce Willis was dead?

That explains a lot.

:) :) :) :)

[whitson77]

I guess I am in the minority, but I don't really care for the Hurley episodes. The only two that I have not liked were both Hurley centered episodes. His character doesn't do anything for me.

[wprager]

One of the promo shots they (apparently) had up on the ABC website, which they quickly pulled, showed the scene where the doctor is taking Hurley's picture, but shot from behind Hurley. He has his arm around an empty chair, which indicates that Dave is imaginary.

Perhaps they were going to use that shot instead of showing us the polaroid, but changed their mind late in the game, prompting them to quickly set up the scene again, resulting in some continuity issues. Otherwise it should have been really simple to pause the scene, get Dave out of the way, and have the doctor take a real picture from the same location -- no continuity issues other than, perhaps, the position of Hurley's arm.

Or not. This is, after all, "Lost".

Seriously, if they had digitally erased dave then people would be saying that it IS digitally erased because of X, Y, Z. There was no way for them to take the exact same picture, one with dave, one without, with zero differences otherwise.

[Fish Man]

http://greg_burns.home.comcast.net/thelook.png

:rolleyes:

I just got done rewatching the ending.

Compare that face to the expression she had just after she took her meds in the final scene at the mental hospital.

Identical...

From where I sit, it's sort of a "psychotic" face.

It's meaning may be to show us that, like Hurley, she's not 100% "well" from whatever got her committed to that mental hospital.

[greg_burns]

Compare that face to the expression she had just after she took her meds in the final scene at the mental hospital.

Identical...

From where I sit, it's sort of a "psychotic" face.

http://greg_burns.home.comcast.net/thelook2.png

I was just commenting on your statement here:

Her interest in Hurley might be exactly what it seems. She likes him.

That looks tells me something is up. She is using him (somehow). She does not really like him at all. IMO

[jehma]

I just got done rewatching the ending.

Compare that face to the expression she had just after she took her meds in the final scene at the mental hospital.

Identical...

From where I sit, it's sort of a "psychotic" face.

It's meaning may be to show us that, like Hurley, she's not 100% "well" from whatever got her committed to that mental hospital.


Well ... she's an actress. Perhaps she was actually going for two different expressions. I wouldn't read too much into the comparison.

I agree that she's got an agenda.

[Big_Daddy]

I agree that she's got an agenda.

Doesn't everyone in this show?

[pcguru83]

Libby=Other

Remeber when the Tailies were hiking to the Losties side of the island and Cindy vanished? Guess who was walking with her...yup, it was Libby. Personally, I don't think Libby is an Other either, but no one had brought this up so thought I'd throw it out there.

[Fish Man]

http://greg_burns.home.comcast.net/thelook2.png

A few frames after that grab, or perhaps a few frames before, is better (there's an instant where it looks much more like the face she was making walking away from the cliff with Hurley).

[Fish Man]

Remeber when the Tailies were hiking to the Losties side of the island and Cindy vanished? Guess who was walking with her...yup, it was Libby. Personally, I don't think Libby is an Other either, but no one had brought this up so thought I'd throw it out there.

People have been bringing up that perhaps Libby is an "other" who was infiltrating the real world (hence her appearance in the mental hospital).

I was thinking, if "others" infiltrate the real world, to interact with the losties before the crash, a great candidate for such an "infiltrating" other is....


....wait for it... Cindy!

She was a flight attendant, she could have somehow caused the crash, even. If, that is, you buy into the "others in the real world" theory.

She disappeared because she went back to join the others at their camp!!

Explain to me how Libby made Cindy disappear while never being absent for so much as an instant herself!

Having said all that, I am of the opinion that the notion that "others" traveled to the "real world" to observe or "recruit" losties before the crash is a stretch way beyond what's normal even for these lost threads. I don't buy it for a second.

Therefore, IMHO, Libby's appearance at the mental hospital ties it up for me. It's as close to "proof", in my mind, as we'll ever get on this show:

Libby's not an other.

Because for her to be an other, you'd have to buy the notion that the others go to the "real world" and interact with future castaways. I think that's WAY too far out there.

Libby may have a hidden agenda vis-a-vis Hurley, but she's not an other.

[MikeMar]

Heard a good theory that maybe Locke broke his legs or whatever on that deck that Hurley broke

[vinniet]

Of course, Bruce Davison has been in tons of stuff, so it'd be hard to find him unfamiliar at this point. His biggest role in terms of exposure is probably as the anti-mutant senator in "X-Men".

Interesting that Bruce Davison was the crazy doctor in "Kingdom Hospital". This sort of seems fitting.

[stevieleej]

All right. Maybe Libby is not an other but I still don't trust her.

I'm not sure if she was on the plane but she was at the beach with the tailies right after the crash.
I think she stated that Hurley stepped on her foot coming down the isle of the plane (which would
incorrectly put her toward front of the plane since she's a tailie).

She is up to something and I don't trust her.

http://lost-media.com/modules/coppermine/albums/ep-caps/season2/2x07-48days/1/48days-cap027.jpg

The whole idea that these people have been brought the island via a plane crash is interesting to me.
How would Dharma know who would survive the crash. Did the plane really crash at all or was it
all setup to look like a crash (yes - we know the Kate remembers the crash the rest don't remember it).
If there was a crash, if someone was on the plane working for Dharma (Cindy? according to Fishman), they'd be taking
a big risk on surviving.

[gchance]

Libby may have a hidden agenda vis-a-vis Hurley, but she's not an other.

I hate when people say vis-a-vis. I think it's because of the Eric the Half-a-Bee song. Look it up. ;)

So I was watching this again last night (it always seems I watch Lost once by myself and once with my wife). Two things.

First, everyone's talking about talking about everything BUT the core story about Hurley being in the hospital to begin with. Didn't Jorge Garcia do a fabulous acting job in this? The scene where he's talking with the doctor about the platform accident, the expressions on his face. They mostly portray him as comic relief but he really impressed me in this episode. It sort of reminds me of Anthony Anderson, who's always the comic relief, then out of nowhere he's on The Shield, stomping Shane Vandrell's face into the ground. Good stuff.

Second, re: Hurley's weight loss. In making the show, if Jorge Garcia lost weight, flashbacks would be extremely difficult to pull off. You'd end up with him having to be in a fat costume for his flashbacks or something. Either that or just not have any Hurley flashbacks, which would be a shame.

Greg

[Cboath]

Libby=Other


I don't buy it. I can KINDA see the argument for it, I just don't think so.

[rondotcom]

The Big Magnet pulled it down. Like the food.

[madscientist]

Heard a good theory that maybe Locke broke his legs or whatever on that deck that Hurley brokeThe big question is, was it Barnett or Morris that took care of him? I say it was Morris, even though that's the obvious choice.

[MikeMar]

The big question is, was it Barnett or Morris that took care of him? I say it was Morris, even though that's the obvious choice.

Must be blanking out, who are Barnett and Morris?

[Cboath]

Heard a good theory that maybe Locke broke his legs or whatever on that deck that Hurley broke


Interesting theory... I like it. :D

[vinniet]

Interesting theory... I like it. :D

That would explain how Lock got in the wheelchair. But why does Lock not know who Hurley is? Also the timing is all wrong.

Hurley breaks the deck.
Hurley goes to the hopital
Hurley gets the numbers at the hospital and wins the money.
Hurley buys the box company that Lock works at.

[scheckeNYK]

Heard a good theory that maybe Locke broke his legs or whatever on that deck that Hurley broke

doubtful since Hurley won the lottery (and then bought the box company Locke worked for) after the accident. If they would have crossed paths before the employee-employer relationship it would actually make that aspect of it superfluous.

[MikeMar]

That would explain how Lock got in the wheelchair. But why does Lock not know who Hurley is? Also the timing is all wrong.

Hurley breaks the deck.
Hurley goes to the hopital
Hurley gets the numbers at the hospital and wins the money.
Hurley buys the box company that Lock works at.

Why couldn't Locke have gotten hurt on the deck, and then go work at the box company, which Hurley buys?

Is there anything that says when Locke joined the box company?

[pendragn]

Why couldn't Locke have gotten hurt on the deck, and then go work at the box company, which Hurley buys?

Is there anything that says when Locke joined the box company?
I don't know if they've mentioned how long Locke was at the box company, but don't we know how long he hasn't been able to walk? I thought it was like 4 years or something. I could have sworn that was covered.

tk

[MikeMar]

I don't know if they've mentioned how long Locke was at the box company, but don't we know how long he hasn't been able to walk? I thought it was like 4 years or something. I could have sworn that was covered.

tk

So do we know when the deck collapsed? could have been 4 years ago right?

[Chibbie]

Is the Polaroid the same as the reality

http://www.lost-media.com/modules/coppermine/albums/ep-caps/season2/2x18-dave/3/normal_dave-caps298.jpg

http://www.lost-media.com/modules/coppermine/albums/ep-caps/season2/2x18-dave/5/normal_dave-caps443.jpg



I think there is a very simple explanation to why these photos don't match. The polaroid the Doc showed Hurley in his office isn't the one we saw the Doc take, but just one of the many he has taken of Hurley. For all we know, the Doc takes pictures all the time. Hurley just happens to be sitting in the same place, which isn't much of a stretch since he seem to like to hang out with Leonard.


http://www.lost-media.com/modules/coppermine/albums/ep-caps/season2/2x18-dave/7/normal_dave-caps648.jpg
(http://lost-media.com/modules/coppermine/albums/ep-caps/season2/2x18-dave/7/dave-caps648.jpg)

However, the other shot we see of him taking a picture of Hurley was from Libby's flashback, but it is the same shot just from her perspective. :confused:

It's kinda hard to Photoshop a Polaroid photo. It's precisely why they chose that camera, I'm sure. :D

I agree! :up:

[Bierboy]

Me me me!!! Of course, I'll claim that I knew Bruce Willis was dead about 30 minutes into "The 6'th Sense".

-PeterOh for crying out loud....I just rented Sixth Sense to watch tonight because I'd never seen it....geesh....
























JUST KIDDING :D :D :D

[Bierboy]

....First, everyone's talking about talking about everything BUT the core story about Hurley being in the hospital to begin with. Didn't Jorge Garcia do a fabulous acting job in this? The scene where he's talking with the doctor about the platform accident, the expressions on his face. They mostly portray him as comic relief but he really impressed me in this episode. It sort of reminds me of Anthony Anderson, who's always the comic relief, then out of nowhere he's on The Shield, stomping Shane Vandrell's face into the ground. Good stuff....I agree. My sister and I e-mail each other after most every episode, and we both have loved any Hurley-centric episode. He's my idol and hero.

[MikeMar]

I agree. My sister and I e-mail each other after most every episode, and we both have loved any Hurley-centric episode. He's my idol and hero.

Start eating!

[jkeegan]

Second, re: Hurley's weight loss. In making the show, if Jorge Garcia lost weight, flashbacks would be extremely difficult to pull off. You'd end up with him having to be in a fat costume for his flashbacks or something. Either that or just not have any Hurley flashbacks, which would be a shame.Good point. Wow, hadn't thought about it until now, but that means that unless they already filmed some extra flashback scenes for Walt, we're not seeing any more of them (unless played by a different younger actor or something). Hmm.

[JYoung]

All right. Maybe Libby is not an other but I still don't trust her.

I'm not sure if she was on the plane but she was at the beach with the tailies right after the crash.
I think she stated that Hurley stepped on her foot coming down the isle of the plane (which would
incorrectly put her toward front of the plane since she's a tailie).

She is up to something and I don't trust her.



She was on the plane.

Your photo backs that up.
That's right after they come out of the water.
Next to her is Ana Lucia.

For her not to have been on the plane, she would have had to have seen/heard it crash, run out to the beach and swim out to the rest of the survivors without anyone noticing.

After all, that worked so well for Goodwin......

[wmm_16]

I see a Truman Show thing coming.

[DUDE_NJX]

(for the record, I AM fat, but not lonely thanks to a fantastic wife who just called me at the office for no other reason than to tell me she loves me!).

Yes, that, and to make sure you're indeed in the office for another hour so her yoga instructor can stay for another round. :p

[DUDE_NJX]

Heard a good theory that maybe Locke broke his legs or whatever on that deck that Hurley broke

And then Hurley gave everybody that got hurt a job at his box co.

[jehma]

The big question is, was it Barnett or Morris that took care of him? I say it was Morris, even though that's the obvious choice.

ROFL!

[Paperboy2003]

I'm sure we'll see a Libby-centric episode soon since she seems to have become more of a 'major' character. My guess is that when we see it it will show that Libby has an addictive, or compulsive personality and that she is indeed 'stalking' Hurley. There really isn't any other reason she could be on the same plane with him in Australia after being in the ward with him.

If there isn't a Libby centric episode coming up then I would absolutely feel comfortable in saying that Libby is an 'other'!!!!

(though at this time I don't believe she is)

[Guindalf]

Yes, that, and to make sure you're indeed in the office for another hour so her yoga instructor can stay for another round. :p

Do the words "jealous", "sick" and "puppy" mean anything to you?

[darthrsg]

Heard a good theory that maybe Locke broke his legs or whatever on that deck that Hurley broke
OR, the mob guys looking for his father, came back for seconds.

[darthrsg]

But what about that face she made at the end of the scene? That was intentional for sure.
She might have realized that Hurley might crush her in the "doing it" phase of their relationship.

[Keith_R90210]

I thought this was an interesting episode that was purposefully meant to poke at those of us who analyze these things each week while also leaving us to ponder the idea that it is all in the mind of someone on the island.

I haven't really been participating in the threads for a litle bit so my apologies if this is smeeking but one thing that is bothering me is, where is Michael? I mean, is it just presumed that he got killed by Zeke and his boys while hunting for Walt? I find it funny that since we last saw him there has been little to no mention of him by the other characters or any kind of organization to find him...ala what happened with Claire and Ethan back in S1. Any thoughts on this?

Also, I don't buy into the theory that Libby is an 'Other' since we have some evidence that she was on the plane and was outside the island before the crash. BTW what a great ending, can't wait to see where they go with that.

Count me in as someone who thinks that Henry knows a lot more about the hatch than he is letting us on to believe.

[TAsunder]

I'm sure we'll see a Libby-centric episode soon since she seems to have become more of a 'major' character. My guess is that when we see it it will show that Libby has an addictive, or compulsive personality and that she is indeed 'stalking' Hurley. There really isn't any other reason she could be on the same plane with him in Australia after being in the ward with him.

If there isn't a Libby centric episode coming up then I would absolutely feel comfortable in saying that Libby is an 'other'!!!!

(though at this time I don't believe she is)

Why does there have to be a reason for her to be on the plane with him? Why can't it be coincidence?

[TR7spyder]

Also, I don't buy into the theory that Libby is an 'Other' since we have some evidence that she was on the plane and was outside the island before the crash. BTW what a great ending, can't wait to see where they go with that.


Yes, but I bet that they are not be going to go back to this topic for another few weeks :mad: .

[LordKronos]

The polaroid the Doc showed Hurley in his office isn't the one we saw the Doc take, but just one of the many he has taken of Hurley.

Well, I'm not sure what elapsed between the time when we saw the doc take the photo and when the photo was shown to Hurley, but the doc did say to hurley something like "I've taken pictures of everyone here except you two...can you pose for a picture for me?"

So we can definitely rule out it being an older pic than the one we saw him take. Not sure if there was any sort of timeline indicator which might rule out it being a newer photo, other than the fact that I can't picture Hurley as having eaten celery sticks on more than one occasion :)

[darthrsg]

Is the Polaroid the same as the reality



http://www.lost-media.com/modules/coppermine/albums/ep-caps/season2/2x18-dave/3/normal_dave-caps298.jpg

http://www.lost-media.com/modules/coppermine/albums/ep-caps/season2/2x18-dave/5/normal_dave-caps443.jpg


Note the polaroid looks like night and there is no man in the background hmmm...
My take is with Dave in the pic, it is Hurley's "reality"hence the daytime, without Dave it is the real world. Hurley might been sneaking a snack at night and been busted by the Doc while talking with Dave.

[scheckeNYK]

They haven't gone to look for Mike and Walt because the Others told them not to. Simple intimidation or fear of the unknown if you ask me. As for why they don't talk about him? Good question. Maybe they do, and it just isn't featured in the dialogue. Perhaps by design, or maybe because there's no reason for the writers to bring it up unless they plan on addressing/resolving it. I'm sure they have an idea of what will become of Mike and Walt, but until they're ready to show that hand any mentions of the two would just be called more loose ends.

In the previews for next week we see that Jack decides to cross the line, and he makes it sound like "enough is enough." So we know that they were definitely avoiding doing it because of their encounter with Zeke.

[bryan314]

OR, the mob guys looking for his father, came back for seconds.
or involved in one of the many car accidents on this show.

or was inspecting Kate's moms house when Kate blew it up.

or was operated on by Jack's dad.

:D