Netflix Sues Blockbuster to Shut Online Service

[Dajad]

http://www.daledietrich.com/imedia/Apr06.htm#05Apr06a

Online DVD rental company Netflix on Tuesday sued rival Blockbuster for patent infringement, asking a federal judge in Northern California to shut down Blockbuster's 18-month-old online rental service and award Netflix damages, according to a copy of the filing.

The complaint, filed in U.S. District Court in San Francisco, focuses largely on the online wish lists that prioritize the DVD desires of about 5.4 million people who subscribe to either Netflix or Blockbuster's Internet service

...Dale

[greg4jc]

What does this have to do with Tivo?

[Dajad]

About as much as the several thousand other threads in this forum on Netflix! :)

More seriously, TiVo is supposed to be a partner with Netflix and though they have postponed their joint venture indefinately, TiVo is still publicly stating that it intends to create a video-on-demand service with Netflix at some point in the future. If Netflix was to win this suit, it makes them a stronger long term business partner for TiVo.

...Dale

[marksman]

They have a patent on mailing dvds to people's houses?

I can not see them prevailing in this.

[dgh]

They have a patent on mailing dvds to people's houses?

I can not see them prevailing in this.

For a while, a company was successfully enforcing its patent on selling stuff on the Internet. Fortunately the patent office decided to reexamine that patent but only after some companies settled with them and paid licensing fees. Then there's TiVo's guide which isn't a grid in part because they didn't want to license the patent for a grid on a TV screen. It's amazing what you can get patented.

[Georgia Guy]

Probably didn't really bother Netflix until so many disgruntled longtime Netflix customers (like me) jumped ship to Blockbuster. No point staying with Netflix after a few years....they lower your priority until you can get movies quicker by searching the bargain bins at Walmart than waiting for their "long wait" movies to ship.

[ping]

They have a patent on mailing dvds to people's houses?


Of course not. But they do have one on the queue. Specifically (first of 100 claims):

1. A method for renting items to customers, the method comprising the computer-implemented steps of:

* receiving one or more item selection criteria that indicates one or more items that a customer desires to rent;
* providing to the customer up to a specified number of the one or more items indicated by the one or more item selection criteria; and
* in response to receiving any of the items provided to the customer, providing to the customer one or more other items indicated by the one or more item selection criteria, wherein a total current number of items provided to the customer does not exceed the specified number.

In other words, automatically sending you the next item(s) in your list when they receive item(s) you have previously rented. IMO this one is OK (but I'm sure many will say it's obvious, which it is once you've seen it).

[Dajad]

Turns out Netflix wa just issued a new "Approach for Renting Items to Customers" patent yesterday. Here is the patent's abstract:

According to a computer-implemented approach for renting items to customers, customers specify what items to rent using item selection criteria separate from deciding when to receive the specified items. According to the approach, customers provide item selection criteria to a provider provides the items indicated by the item selection criteria to customer over a delivery channel. The provider may be either centralized or distributed depending upon the requirements of a particular application. A "Max Out" approach allows up to a specified number of items to be rented simultaneously to customers. A "Max Turns" approach allows up to a specified number of item exchanges to occur during a specified period of time. The "Max Out" and "Max Turns" approaches may be used together or separately with a variety of subscription methodologies.

I've linked the patent into my site here:

http://www.daledietrich.com/imedia/Apr06.htm#05Apr06a

If anyone can find a source to NetFlix's complaint, please let me know. I'd like to add it to my site.

...Dale

[Dajad]

Well, ask and yee shall receive. I asked Netflix's customer relations folks for a copy of the Netflix v. Blockbuster complaint and they sent it on in a matter of minutes. I've now linked the complaint and both relevant patents into my site:

http://www.daledietrich.com/imedia/Apr06.htm#05Apr06a

I think this is a bit of a coup because I reviewed about 30 accounts of this suit and hitherto had not found the complaint online anywhere.

The nut of the complaint is that Blockbuster infringed Netflix's '381 patent by "copying Netflix's patented busines method, including but not limited to copying Netflix's dynamic queue; copying Netflix's method of sending DVDs to subscribers based on ranked order of titles in their queue; and copying Netflix's method of allowing subscribers to update and reorder their queue"

...Dale

[mattack]

Turns out Netflix wa just issued a new "Approach for Renting Items to Customers" patent yesterday. Here is the patent's abstract:

Interesting, so they've gotten a patent on what people colloquially call "throttling"
for high volume customers.

(Someone a few years ago on Usenet opened several Netflix accounts and posted detailed info about how many rentals he got per month from different accounts open different periods of time...)

I'm still grandfathered at 4 at a time.. but haven't watched a DVD in a while. too much stuff on my Tivos.

(If I knew for sure what shows would come out on DVD eventually, I'd stop Tivoing a lot of stuff and just watch DVDs.. for some things like CSI I can't quite get myself to do that.. and unfortunately reality shows don't seem to be coming out on DVD often.. Not even the ones cancelled before the network aired all of them.. I still have a season pass for "Under one Roof"!)

[marksman]

Oh so they don't have a patent on mailing dvds to people's houses, just a patent on making a list of dvds people want.

I don't know anything about patent law, but from a common sense perspective I still do not see how they win on this.

I doubt Blockbuster's criteria is the exact same as Netflix, so just the fact that they allow customers to ask for titles does not seem like it should be an enforcable patent.

It would be like having a patent on having customers stand in line to check out at a cash register.

This reeks of a bit of desperation to me.

[ping]

Like I said, obvious once you've seen someone do it. It was a novel business method when they did it. In fact, they didn't even start out this way. If memory serves they started out using the typical rental model--rent something, send it back, go back and rent something, etc. So it wasn't even obvious to them until they found there was a better way.

IMO (and I do know some things about patent law), this is a solid patent, and Blockbuster has completely copied the business model.

[ping]

By the way, I just did a bit of searching to see what the small guys do. Apparently, at least two that I found will send you the next item in your queue when you login to their website and click "mailed back", rather than waiting until they actually receive them. Interestingly, that's a way around at least the first claim that I posted above (I haven't read the other 99 or the other patent).

[dswallow]

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=294487

[ping]

Ouch, my eyes hurt from the ignorance. I think I'll continue to stay safely out of the "Happy Hour". Methinks some there have had a few too many.