SkyHD pricing finally announced [Text View]

Sneals2000

03-24-2006, 03:59 AM

£299 purchase, £10/month HD sub and no installation charge. Sounds very sensible level of pricing. Now that the Sky+ fee has been waved for premium subscribers, the £10/month for HD probably doesn't seem as bad. The £299 to buy the box doesn't compare too badly to the initial prices of the Sky+ SD box or the original Tivo to be honest.

I don't currently have an HD Ready display at home as I don't think I could live with a Plasma or LCD for SD viewing (I've looked at loads of them), just as I couldn't live with a 100Hz CRT set.

I know that Philips and Samsung both have HD-Ready CRTs in the pipeline - but whether their HD performance (Geometry has been an issue with previous HD Samsung CRTs) and their SD performance (presumably they will be 576/100i 100Hz or 576/50p progressive rather than 576/50i, so that they can run at a similar line rate to HD 1080i) is acceptable isn't clear...

There still doesn't seem to be a perfect display solution...

philredman

03-24-2006, 04:40 AM

Well I've just pre-ordered. Planning on keeping TiVo though.

I like the look of this but don't know if I can get it past the Boss. Gary, if I get a SkyHD+ box, will I still be able to hook it up to TiVo to record non HD programs or HD programs I want to view on TiVo through the digisender upstairs?

Thanks

Phil

GarySargent

03-24-2006, 04:51 AM

We haven't seen the box yet but assuming it is like Sky+ we should be able to use it with TiVo - though obviously you won't be able to record in High Def, only standard or downscaled high def.

The remote codes may be different to the existing Sky or Sky+ ones, but support for any new IR codes would only take a few days to get sorted.

eric23

03-24-2006, 04:54 AM

What I'm planning on doing is converting my current Sky card to FreeSat service, and use my existing Sky STB for FreeSat with TiVo.

My partner will then sign up for a completely new SkyHD+ service, which will allow us to take advantage of the "first 3 months half price" offer on the channel package.

Phil, I think you'll run into problems with TiVo trying to change the channel (if Sky+ is trying to record something). You might be able to hard set Sky+ to only record one of the available streams (??) and then dedicate the SCART output and second receiver to TiVo. But I really have no experience of this, not being a Sky+ customer. There are plenty here that should be able to advise though.

JeFurry

03-24-2006, 05:38 AM

It all sounds good. But don't forget that using a TiVo with Sky+ or Sky+HD sounds like a bit of a pain... as I understand it, the Sky+ can record a programme in the background without a problem, but when the TiVo wants to record you have to make sure it can switch the Sky+ to the right channel. Over SCART this isn't a problem, since the TiVo overlays its "OK to change channel?" message on the screen. But if you're watching Sky+HD through HDMI or Component inputs to your TV, then you won't see TiVo's message and it'll either switch the output channel with (apparently) no warning, or fail to switch. In which case you either have to stop watching your Sky+HD recording or programme until TiVo is done, or you end up with a recording of what you were watching on the Sky+HD and not what you wanted.

Or am I wrong about this? Can you force Sky+/Sky+HD to output recordings being watched through one interface and live TV through another (in this case, the SCART for the TiVo) ?

randap

03-24-2006, 06:34 AM

2 questions....

1) Can I get just the box without HD subscription, but get BBC HD services FOC (e.g. the World Cup)?

2) If you have the HD subscription, could I cancel my movies subscription, but still get movies HD? Or will you have to double subscribe in order to get movies HD? (likewise for sports).

Either way, I think a subscription is a bit unfair, bearing in mind HD will become the norm. I don't mind paying for the box, but a subscription for little extra benefit is a bit rich.

sanderton

03-24-2006, 07:08 AM

1) Probably, but why not just buy a FTA HD box if that's all you want?
2) No, you only het the HD versions of things you have subscribed to in SD.

If you think it's only a little extra benfit, then don't get it!

I have pre-ordered, and, sob, will be dumping TiVo.

frogster

03-24-2006, 07:33 AM

£299 for the box. £10 monthly HD sub. Sky+ functionality is £10, or free if you spend £36 or more on a channel package.I don't mind the £299 but I won't pay any monthly fee to watch TV or to record it.
So if I get anything it will be a non-Sky HD sat receiver with hard drive and two tuners. Hopefully someone will make one for the use of all those millions of people who don't want to give money to Sky for nothing.

cyril

03-24-2006, 07:43 AM

What's especially annoying is the fact you have to take out a seperate sub for each Sky HD box in each room.
I now have 7 different rooms with TiVos in each, so it would cost me £6000+ to get Sky HD in each room for one year!

That money is going to a 65" 1080p plasma instead :)

sanderton

03-24-2006, 07:56 AM

I don't mind the £299 but I won't pay any monthly fee to watch TV or to record it.
So if I get anything it will be a non-Sky HD sat receiver with hard drive and two tuners. Hopefully someone will make one for the use of all those millions of people who don't want to give money to Sky for nothing.

Such a box will cost considerably more than the £299 SkyHD box. Single tuner no hard disk HD sat boxes cost £250-odd.

I'm sure there's a PhD thesis in why some people find a one-off payment acceptable but a per-month one is vioilently reacted against,.

leemcg

03-24-2006, 08:07 AM

I've already signed up too.

But SkyHD is only any good in my living room where my new plasma is, so I'm planning on keeping Tivo and the old sky box as well on multiroom.

That will give me the ability to watch two different things at the same time.

I just can't see myself giving up on all of my season passes (and I've never found a problem with recording only one thing at a time on Tivo with all the repeats and +1s). So to start with, I expect I'll still record everything on my Tivo and then duplicate recordings where I know the content is in HD. Oh, and then there's the world cup.

But of course, if I find that it's not too much worse using SkyHD, once it's installed, who knows?

LeeMcG

ericd121

03-24-2006, 08:24 AM

I have pre-ordered, and, sob, will be dumping TiVo.Afore ye go...
Have you bought your HD TV yet?

And what make is it?

Yeah, I know, I'm nosy. :p

randap

03-24-2006, 08:24 AM

If you think it's only a little extra benfit, then don't get it!

All I'm saying is that currently the SkyHD offering will only give us channels and programmes we can already receive, but rather then Sky actually doing work to downscale them, we will receive them as recorded. Consequently, paying a subscription seems a bit rich.

However, if the SkyHD offering included completely new channels with completely new HD-only content, then a subscription could be justified IMHO.

As for FTA HD receivers, can you get them, and if so from where?

03-24-2006, 08:39 AM

I have pre-ordered, and, sob, will be dumping TiVo.Yipes! :eek:

So to receive Sky One HD, Artsworld HD, National Geographic HD, Discovery HD and Sky Box Office HD I pay my current £18 a month plus an extra £299 for the box then £10 a month plus another £10 a month if I want Sky+ to work..? And once the installation offer ends it would be another £60 up front. Hmmm... anything interesting on Sky Box Office?

Bob The Skutter

03-24-2006, 08:40 AM

^I think I heard Humax are doing one aimed at the UK market but I haven't seen it on any sites I visit. http://www.hm-sat-shop.de/28.ghtml here's some HDTV receivers from Europe.
I've signed up for Sky HD, I'd far rather have a Tivo than a Sky Plus box but seen as that doesn't seem very likely and I've been having some troubles with the Tivo lately I think it's time. I think I may let my mam and dad have the Tivo, or I may put it in the bedroom but I'm not sure which yet.

iankb

03-24-2006, 08:43 AM

I split my viewing over a perfectly good Sony 32" flatscreen CRT, and two 14" TV's in my study and bedroom linked to my TiVo with video senders. I would either need to spend a small fortune to watch HD, or be tied to my lounge. Can't see me upgrading yet, especially since it's only films at the moment that keep my TiVo topped up, and I've no idea yet what the HD content will be, and whether it will interest me that much.

I suppose once I replace my main TV with an LCD model, I will reconsider. I hate the idea of being tied to my lounge though, especially since I spend more time working in my study.

Now where did I put those plans for HD video streaming over a general-purpose gigabit network?

thechachman

03-24-2006, 08:45 AM

Having thought about it long and hard ... we will not be taking Uncle Murdoch up on his offer to part with £300 for the box and another "quid per channel per month" extra for HD ...

cyril

03-24-2006, 09:28 AM

I have pre-ordered, and, sob, will be dumping TiVo.

I assume you will just watch Sky HD in one room as you need one full Sky HD sub PER BOX!

I am hoping I can get Sky to drop this requirement if I buy a second or third box.
Maybe "buy 2 Sky HD subs get one free" :)

If not which method are you going to use to stream HD?

thechachman

03-24-2006, 09:57 AM

I am hoping I can get Sky to drop this requirement if I buy a second or third box. Coworker attempted to order three and was told woudl cost £900 for three boxes and another £30 a month on top of his current £50 per month :p

thechachman

03-24-2006, 09:59 AM

I have pre-ordered, and, sob, will be dumping TiVo. Nine channels of non-exclusive content exceeds the value of your Tivo to you? :eek:

You do know the beeb plans for a max of 3-4 hrs a day total HD programming for the first year right?

iankb

03-24-2006, 10:04 AM

... it would be another £60 up front.Plus, presumably, whatever you have to pay for Sky Box Office showings, if there's nothing you want to watch on the other channels.

eric23

03-24-2006, 10:22 AM

Bob The Skutter

03-24-2006, 10:37 AM

2 questions....

1) Can I get just the box without HD subscription, but get BBC HD services FOC (e.g. the World Cup)?

.

I just noticed this in the story on digital spy
BBC has said that its HD coverage of the World Cup will be available to all customers with a Sky HD box as a non-subscription channel."
Related

Automan

03-24-2006, 10:49 AM

Did not really look at the cost....

No option however to order two :)

The sub 200Gb of free hard drive space seems a bit limited but I'm sure it will be upgradable.....

Automan.

cwaring

03-24-2006, 11:11 AM

I'm trying to put together comparison of the TVD and Sk+HD.

As I wanted to do it properly, I found the details of Sky's Media deptartment as I wanted a proper picture and full specs; if released yet.

However, there was only a standard mailing address and phone number. No email :(

So I called the number and the very bored-sounding receptionist told me that there wasn't an email address and all the info was available on their site.

I was so put off that I didn't bother going any further with the conversation.

Not exactly the most forthcoming of companies, Sky :(

Don't suppose there's anyone here would know where else I could get this info? I have checked Sky's HD site out and not only is it all in bloody Flash but there's no decent pic or spec. (Not that I could use either as that would be stealing!)

eric23

03-24-2006, 11:33 AM

What do you want to know, Carl? I have the infamous Sky Installers powerpoint still on my PC, which contains most of the technical spec.

Features:
Supports MPEG2 and MPEG4
Supports Dolby 5.1
2x ISO7816 compatible Smartcard slots
300GB drive (160GB for Sky+ recording, 140GB reserved for future use)

Connectivity:
Two satellite inputs
RF In
2x RF Out
2x SCART (one VCR, one TV - both RGB capable)
Component Video Out (Y Pb Pr - RCA phonos)
S-Video Out
HDMI port
Stereo Audio Out (RCA phonos)
Digital Optical Audio Out
RJ11 port (telephone line)
RS232 port
2x USB port (one on front, one on rear)
RJ45 port
S-ATA port

cwaring

03-24-2006, 11:38 AM

PM sent.

thechachman

03-24-2006, 11:54 AM

But more and more channels will be going live on HD over the coming months. You're just focussing on what will be there on launch. Already BBC have come onboard since the previous Sky announcement about launch channels. I just need C4/More4/E4 and Living to come on board, and then pretty much all of my regular viewing will be on HD channels. Since so much of both of these broadcasters' programming is already originally HD (as it comes from the States!), I can't see it being long...

Just think, Six Feet Under and Desperate Housewives -type quality American shows, which already look stunning, soon in proper HD. <drool>
Sorry Eric, but I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment if you expect the likes of Living and such to be in HD anytime in the near future.

One, how many UK channels do you honestly think can afford to HD ?

Two, I would be VERY surprised if Sky and all UK channels were to be granted access to every all current running US shows in high-definition format, especially shows owned by HBO, Showtime and other non ABC/NBC/CBS entities when the UK boxes will have non-HDCP innate functionality from day one. AFAIK in the states the units in use must support it although atm it is disabled.

Three, given the added bandwidth involved in HD, while I used to be more up-to-date with other satellites and such when I had a motorised system, I do not recall any huge buildup in transponder/bandwidth capacity on the satellite slots out past the 40w positioning which bounce shows from the US to Europe either ....

eric23

03-24-2006, 12:07 PM

HBO already have Eastern Europe channels. I'm amazed they chose to launch channels there over the UK, but maybe they've been waiting for HD?

The point I was making was: more will come. The launch line-up is just the start. I have no doubt that C4 (and maybe less so, ITV) will launch HD pretty soon. Sure, you're not going to get Bid Up and the Poker Channel on HD, but I really couldn't give a... whether they do or not. Our major broadcasters are all working towards HD.

steveroe

03-24-2006, 12:11 PM

Think of the number of channels currently on Sky that currently support Widescreen broadcasts - I'd guess that those channels will be the ones looking towards HD broadcasts.

The others, well they haven't gone widscreen on SD yet ...

frogster

03-24-2006, 12:18 PM

Such a box will cost considerably more than the £299 SkyHD box. Single tuner no hard disk HD sat boxes cost £250-odd.Only because there are virtually none on the market and that is because there is currently little demand and no UK content at all. When there is content the prices will drop fast: just look at twin-tuner Freesat recorders, or DVDR/HDD machines. You can pick these up for next to nothing.

There is no reason why an HD machine should have any intrinsic cost much greater than an SD machine. Look at DVD burners compared to CD burners: today the price difference is barely 20%, yet at launch the DVD burners cost 10 times more. The same will apply to HDDVD/BluRay burners when they come out and within 24 months they will be dirt cheap too.

I'm sure there's a PhD thesis in why some people find a one-off payment acceptable but a per-month one is vioilently reacted against,. You don't need a thesis to work out what is bonkers about being asked to pay a monthly fee (in this case possibly 2 or 3 monthly fees) just to use equipment that you have already purchased outright.

sanderton

03-24-2006, 12:33 PM

I assume you will just watch Sky HD in one room as you need one full Sky HD sub PER BOX!

I am hoping I can get Sky to drop this requirement if I buy a second or third box.
Maybe "buy 2 Sky HD subs get one free" :)

If not which method are you going to use to stream HD?

I will only have one HD set for the foreseeable, so it's not a problem. My networked SD viewing is all Freeview. The sets in my bedroom (17-inch) and the kid's room (28-inch) can stay SD for the foreseable.

The HD content I'll be watching will be live sport, movies and "must watch" stuff like Galactica. All of which I would choose to watch on the big TV in the living room anyway.

I did contemplate takinga mirror subs so TiVo coudl record and network the stuff from Sky, but I can't justift £120 a year for occasionally watching Discovery in the bedroom!

eric - I haven't bought yet. Am torn between the Samsung 50-inch DLP and the Sagem 56-inch DLP. I know 1080 DLP will be out soon, but neither Samsung nor Sagem can tell me when, and I can't wait forever. :(

Glesgie

03-24-2006, 12:34 PM

You don't need a thesis to work out what is bonkers about being asked to pay a monthly fee (in this case possibly 2 or 3 monthly fees) just to use equipment that you have already purchased outright.

Like TV licence, Road Tax, Council Tax etc. ?

sanderton

03-24-2006, 12:37 PM

Two, I would be VERY surprised if Sky and all UK channels were to be granted access to every all current running US shows in high-definition format, especially shows owned by HBO, Showtime and other non ABC/NBC/CBS entities when the UK boxes will have non-HDCP innate functionality from day one. AFAIK in the states the units in use must support it although atm it is disabled.

Three, given the added bandwidth involved in HD, while I used to be more up-to-date with other satellites and such when I had a motorised system, I do not recall any huge buildup in transponder/bandwidth capacity on the satellite slots out past the 40w positioning which bounce shows from the US to Europe either ....

Eh? All US HD is connected via component as standard, which is no different from Sky. The HDMI port will be HDCP protected.

Why would they beam the shows from the US to the UK? The post still works even in this digital age. :)

thechachman

03-24-2006, 12:55 PM

Why would they beam the shows from the US to the UK? The post still works even in this digital age. :) Was thinking more of the live content which comes across ... NBC/CBS/ABC/ESPN all own transponder sets which get used to feed content to their European operations and syndicates. David Letterman & SNL (first two that come to mind) as well of course as all sports are live feeds ...
Eh? All US HD is connected via component as standard, which is no different from Sky. The HDMI port will be HDCP protected While I am probably now dangerously close to the proverbial 'well I read it on a forum someplace so it must be true ' ... I swear I read elsewhere that if you HD was via HDMI and the component out would be SD only (shrug)

edit -- Depending upon one's sporting tastes, this (http://www.hdsportsguide.com) site may make your mouth water even further, that is if my point about transatlantic bandwidth being sufficient to permit it being bounced. As per that site Real Madrid vs. Deportivo is on Sunday noon US time in 1080i :eek:

edit2 -- Hmmmm ... there is supposed to be SO MUCH dark fibre optic cable that got put down all those years ago before Worldcom blew up, maybe HD leverage of that?

frogster

03-24-2006, 02:56 PM

Like TV licence, Road Tax, Council Tax etc. ?These are taxes imposed by law, not commercial fees for using equipment.
If you don't understand the difference then maybe you should do some research.

sanderton

03-24-2006, 03:06 PM

Like TV licence, Road Tax, Council Tax etc. ?

No, more like mobile phones, ADSL routers, cable TV boxes - all hardwrae you own that won't do much without paying a monthly fee.

cwaring

03-24-2006, 03:58 PM

Technically I don't own either of my STBs :)

Which reminds me, where is our resident pedant, mrtickle? He hasn't been on here in ages.

eric23

03-24-2006, 04:44 PM

He's not been the same since he lost the hat. :(

cwaring

03-24-2006, 05:15 PM

I seem to recall something about him having been ill. I could be wrong, though. I hope he's okay.

Edited to add:

Okay. I think I might be losing it, whatever it is. I've just checked the members list and it states he was last on here on 03-15-2006. 15th of this month? I must have missed him :eek:

Just found his last posting (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3841982&&#post3841982).

He's not been the same since he lost the hat. :(
Seems that it's not just his hate he's lost :p It's probably 'cos he's removed his piccy that I missed him :)

kitschcamp

03-25-2006, 12:32 AM

One, how many UK channels do you honestly think can afford to HD ?

Especially remembering how long it took for even some of the major channels to offer 16:9...

kitschcamp

03-25-2006, 12:45 AM

I know I won't be subscribing, for two main reasons:

1. I don't subscribe to movies or sports, therefore most of the content isn't going to be of interest at the moment, especially not to justify an extra £10 a month.
2. After remembering the farcical installations and "repairs" by Sky's technicians over the years, I won't subscribe to a service that requires them to do it.

I will, however, think about buying a FTA box for BBC, ITV and possibly later C4 and C5 programs. A lot depends on our new home and what we can get away with. I won't pay £10 a month to pay for channels that are FTA.

frogster

03-25-2006, 01:27 AM

No, more like mobile phones, ADSL routers, cable TV boxes - all hardwrae you own that won't do much without paying a monthly fee.Routers of course will work without any monthly fee. Cable TV boxes are often rented or loaned rather than bought. If you choose the right phone network you need pay no monthly fee.

And that said, in all the cases you mention (and indeed in all cases except the Sky+) the payment is for an extra service that is provided on an on-going basis, that costs money to provide and that is not available unless one pays or DIY's it.
None of which applies to the Sky+ recording function as it involves no notion of service provision at all: the function is in the box as purchased and if it wasn't deliberately slugged by Sky it would just work out of the box.

In that respect the Sky+ fee is exactly like the payment made to hoodlums to "insure'" that your business or house doesn't burn down.

groovyclam

03-25-2006, 02:28 AM

sanderton:

re: Samsung 50-inch DLP and the Sagem 56-inch DLP

I'm getting a bit off-topic but also noticed in a quick scan of the TVs in Currys that the Samsung DLP looked an acceptable alternative to CRT. However I noticed that if I positioned my head too high or low relative to the screen that the picture started "fading" from view. There wasn't much leeway there. Is this a foible of DLP ?

Any thoughts on why you are also considering the Sagem ?

Automan

03-25-2006, 02:28 AM

Perhaps the SciFi channel will go 16:9 and then switch to HD after their +1 channel starts in a few days....

What I am worried about is the quality of picture and sound from this new box....

Why?
So many outputs - Risk of signal leak and design compromise to provide all formats
Brand name - Still at least its not Amstrad badged :)
Possible compatibility problems with some HDMI TV sets.

I imagine when they call to arrange install they will try and persuade you to have your exisiting STB relocated to another room thus making more $$$$ for Sky.

I shall of course hold out for an Octo LNB as I already use five feeds. One from my original Sky dish and four from my new one.

May is such a long way away.....

Automan.

03-25-2006, 02:47 AM

May is such a long way away.....Tell me about it - I still have another *two whole weeks* to wait for my new car... :eek: :p :D

So what exactly is shown on "Sky Box Office" - it doesn't seem to have its own channel listing - is it PPV things like boxing matches?

Sneals2000

03-25-2006, 04:22 AM

Only because there are virtually none on the market and that is because there is currently little demand and no UK content at all. When there is content the prices will drop fast: just look at twin-tuner Freesat recorders, or DVDR/HDD machines. You can pick these up for next to nothing.

There is no reason why an HD machine should have any intrinsic cost much greater than an SD machine. Look at DVD burners compared to CD burners: today the price difference is barely 20%, yet at launch the DVD burners cost 10 times more. The same will apply to HDDVD/BluRay burners when they come out and within 24 months they will be dirt cheap too.

You don't need a thesis to work out what is bonkers about being asked to pay a monthly fee (in this case possibly 2 or 3 monthly fees) just to use equipment that you have already purchased outright.

In the long run, you're right. However given the current shortage of MPEG4 chipsets, it is likely that HD MPEG4 boxes (as required for most European HD broadcasts likely to launch, and some US services) will command a premium over SD and HD MPEG2 boxes for at least a short while.

As for the Sky+ subscription - doesn't this partially go to the manufacturer of the box in return for subsidising the manufacturing cost? ISTR that Pace moved to this model when Sky reduced the price of the standard Sky+ box? It is a bit like mobile phones - you pay less for the box when you buy it, but you subsidise the manufacturing by paying a monthly line rental.

(For that matter it is a bit like Tivo, though without the life-time option, which they are ditching in the US ISTR...)

Sneals2000

03-25-2006, 04:35 AM

Sorry Eric, but I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment if you expect the likes of Living and such to be in HD anytime in the near future.

One, how many UK channels do you honestly think can afford to HD ?

I guess it depends on whether they produce their own material or acquire, and whether the acquisitions are in HD. If you are running a simple operation playing out bought in material, and that material is available in HD, then upgrading your transmission and uplink facilities might not be commercially prohibitive. E4, Hallmark etc. might be able to do this if HD starts to become popular. I suspect Hallmark is a bit niche - but it has very strong SD viewing figures.

However the channels that show a lot of UK acquisitions or productions commissioned for the channel will have less incentive - as HD production is more expensive.

Two, I would be VERY surprised if Sky and all UK channels were to be granted access to every all current running US shows in high-definition format, especially shows owned by HBO, Showtime and other non ABC/NBC/CBS entities when the UK boxes will have non-HDCP innate functionality from day one. AFAIK in the states the units in use must support it although atm it is disabled.

The broadcasters could chose to enable it - so if HBO launched their own channel they could force the component outputs to be down-ressed and the HD to only output via the HDMI with HDCP.

The HDCP is likely to be permanently enabled on the HDMI outputs - it is just the down-ressing of the component HD outputs that might not be permanently enabled - and instead it will be up to broadcasters to trigger it.

However in the US almost all HD broadcasts are output from set top boxes via component - so HBO, Showtime etc. are all available in analogue component HD in their native territories... In fact in some areas they are available in digital MPEG2 un-encrypted, from the output of cable boxes (via Firewire - though some have 5C copy protection) or satellite boxes modified for USB2 or Firewire output.

I suspect that HD component output (and the "analogue hole") is less of an issue than many make out. The bigger issue is a "digital hole" - which they have in the US, but we don't have in Europe.

Three, given the added bandwidth involved in HD, while I used to be more up-to-date with other satellites and such when I had a motorised system, I do not recall any huge buildup in transponder/bandwidth capacity on the satellite slots out past the 40w positioning which bounce shows from the US to Europe either ....

These days it is just as likely that fibre would be used for broadcasters to get material across the Atlantic. Satellite links are increasinly the province of live links from remote locations (News and Outside Broadcasts from unusual locations), and for broadcast to home. Linking broadcast centres, and backhauling from regular OB locations (like football stadia etc.) is increasingly using fibre. (Sky get their HD football back to their broadcast centre via Fibre. The BBC use fibre to get material from New York and Washington to London etc.)

Fibre also allows higher quality links as there is less of a bandwith issue - you can't carry an uncompressed SD signal via a conventional satellite transponder - but you can carry multiple uncompressed SD services easily via fibre.

poissony

03-25-2006, 10:11 AM

As for FTA HD receivers, can you get them, and if so from where?

Humax HDCI2000 is out at the end of March and can be bought for £300:

http://www.247electrical.co.uk/epages/twentyfourseven.storefront/EN/Product/HUMHDCI2000?SOURCE=AW

http://www.edirectory.co.uk/pf/pages/moreinfoa.asp?pe=DGEIFIGQ_+humax+hdci2000+high+definition&cid=880

More info here:

http://www.humaxdigital.com/global/products/HDCI-2000.asp

frogster

03-25-2006, 12:13 PM

However given the current shortage of MPEG4 chipsets, it is likely that HD MPEG4 boxes (as required for most European HD broadcasts likely to launch, and some US services) will command a premium over SD and HD MPEG2 boxes for at least a short while.That's true, though it should only be a short while. We also shouldn't forget that the prices Sky set often bear no relation whatsoever to the actual cost of the equipment, though the price for the SkyHD box without a viewing sub (£399) is probably about right. Any FTA manufacturer of course has to charge in relation to what the boxes actually cost or he would go bust.

As for the Sky+ subscription - doesn't this partially go to the manufacturer of the box in return for subsidising the manufacturing cost? ISTR that Pace moved to this model when Sky reduced the price of the standard Sky+ box? It is a bit like mobile phones - you pay less for the box when you buy it, but you subsidise the manufacturing by paying a monthly line rental.There was such an arrangement with Pace but AFAIK this expired quite some time ago. Around about the time that Sky started waiving the Sky+ fee for premium package subscribers. AFAIK no such arrangement has ever been made public for the other two Sky+ makers.

The current full list price for the Sky+ and SkyHD boxes would seem to be about what they are worth and those paying those prices apparently aren't getting any subsidy and so should not expect to have to pay any monthly fee in compensation. The situation might be different for those getting a cheaper box.

As I mentioned previously, if you choose well you need pay no monthly mobile fee and any such arrangement should always be optional. It certainly isn't optional for the Sky+ or SkyHD, regardless of what purchase price was paid.

6022tivo

03-25-2006, 03:04 PM

I have not really read the term and things for the HD service, but understand the costs of the box and the extra £10...

So the best thing to do for myself (Cutrrently NOT a Sky subscriber). Would be to sign up the the SKY+ Free BOX deal (min 12 months). After installation, buy the Sky HD box and then at least I can sell the SKY+ box and make a bit of money back??

I am correct in thinking this arn't I??

GarySargent

03-25-2006, 03:35 PM

Eric do both TV and VCR SCART's output in RGB mode? Or is it the same as normal STB's which allow RGB passthrough but only output composite on the VCR SCART?

sanderton

03-25-2006, 04:08 PM

eric23

03-25-2006, 05:14 PM

Gary, it seems it's the same as current STBs. Just going by the Installers powerpoint, which states:
TV SCART (composite video out, RGB out)
VCR SCART (composite video in/out, RGB in)

eric23

03-25-2006, 05:18 PM

6022tivo, I imagine your contract will be to keep your Sky+ box connected and in use for 12 months. In fact, I know you have to sign up to 12 months for sure. If you were to terminate the Sky+ sub early, you'd probably have to pay the remaining charges for the year.

Just buy the HD+ box! With this pre-order thing, it's good value. The box itself is cheap - £299 (that is cheap at the moment for MPEG4 decoding boxes - not forgetting the fact that it contains a 300GB drive) and installation is free at the moment. It will be reverting to a £60 installation fee in May.

If it makes you feel better, find something else to sell on eBay. Like your grandmother. ;)

kitschcamp

03-26-2006, 12:32 AM

Does it *require* a telephone connection? I remember reading something about it a long while back, but for the life of me I can't find it now.

03-26-2006, 12:44 AM

Yup, phone line needed: "Professional installation and fixed telephone line connection for 12 months required." - from here (https://survey.sky.com/hdprereg/info.asp?id=1).

kitschcamp

03-26-2006, 12:48 AM

Well that's that decided. I doubt I'll be able to run a telephone extension cable that long *cough*

03-26-2006, 12:52 AM

"I'd like to order some sky hooks please..." :D

kitschcamp

03-26-2006, 12:54 AM

Or a real magic VoIP adapter that allows modems to work...?

03-26-2006, 12:57 AM

Or a friendly Swedish telco that lets you set a UK CLIP? ;)

eric23

03-26-2006, 03:40 AM

<Hands Stephen some Benylin> You know, it's just a formality of the contract. The Sky Police don't actually come round to check. :)

frogster

03-26-2006, 03:45 AM

So the best thing to do for myself (Cutrrently NOT a Sky subscriber). Would be to sign up the the SKY+ Free BOX deal (min 12 months). After installation, buy the Sky HD box and then at least I can sell the SKY+ box and make a bit of money back?? Best in what sense? For the money you might get back for the Sky+? Yes, I suppose so, but then you wouldn't qualify for whatever special offer Sky may come up with for the HDbox for new susbscribers. They generally do much better deals for new customers than for existing ones.

frogster

03-26-2006, 04:04 AM

Does it *require* a telephone connection? Just like with all Sky boxes this "requirement" is contractual, not technical. As long as you don't have multiroom then at worst, as with the Sky+, you would only have to run an extension cable to activate the thing in the first place (though of course you could just cart it round to some other house which has a phone socket near the dish coax point). Or you could buy a DECT phone extender.

MikeMcr

03-26-2006, 04:33 AM

Or you could buy a DECT phone extender.I have a DECT phone but I didn't know you could get extenders to work as normal phone sockets, if that is what you mean? Where can you get them? Maplin have Wireless Phone Extenders (over power cables) but the limitations listed seem to make them useless.

sjp

03-26-2006, 07:41 AM

i think stephens requirement for an extension cable might be a bit on the long side... like a thousand miles or so ;)

JeromeO'Donohoe

03-26-2006, 09:01 AM

Sorry Eric, but I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment if you expect the likes of Living and such to be in HD anytime in the near future.

One, how many UK channels do you honestly think can afford to HD ?

Two, I would be VERY surprised if Sky and all UK channels were to be granted access to every all current running US shows in high-definition format, especially shows owned by HBO, Showtime and other non ABC/NBC/CBS entities when the UK boxes will have non-HDCP innate functionality from day one. AFAIK in the states the units in use must support it although atm it is disabled.

Three, given the added bandwidth involved in HD, while I used to be more up-to-date with other satellites and such when I had a motorised system, I do not recall any huge buildup in transponder/bandwidth capacity on the satellite slots out past the 40w positioning which bounce shows from the US to Europe either ....

Well. The studios who sell films to Sky are evidently satisfied as there's HD movie channels. Given that the studios & networks are pretty much all the same companies, it's not that much of a worry.

As for channels who can afford to be HD, it's more a case of who can afford not to be as far as the value of their advertising space goes. I expect C4 to be the first, after the beeb.

Lastly...HD TV shows are not delivered to UK broadcasters over satellite unless there is a compelling reason due to time! They come in on tapes, on a plane.

Automan

03-26-2006, 11:44 AM

You will have to be very quick to sign up for normal then HD.

I understand the Sky HD Website offer ends midnight April 5.

Automan.
I have not really read the term and things for the HD service, but understand the costs of the box and the extra £10...

So the best thing to do for myself (Cutrrently NOT a Sky subscriber). Would be to sign up the the SKY+ Free BOX deal (min 12 months). After installation, buy the Sky HD box and then at least I can sell the SKY+ box and make a bit of money back??

I am correct in thinking this arn't I??

frogster

03-26-2006, 01:32 PM

I have a DECT phone but I didn't know you could get extenders to work as normal phone sockets, if that is what you mean? Where can you get them? AFAIK Argos have one that works with Sky boxes.

frogster

03-26-2006, 01:38 PM

i think stephens requirement for an extension cable might be a bit on the long side... like a thousand miles or so ;)For use outside the UK you can activate the Sky+ box and card from anywhere in the UK with a Sky dish and a phone line. You can even do it over VOIP. Then take it where you like.
I doubt that the HD box will be any different, unless Sky are completely bonkers.

Automan

03-26-2006, 02:30 PM

I also not in the infamous power point presentation that a callback MUST be made during install.

No doubt to make sure the box is not in Spain :)

Automan.

iankb

03-27-2006, 05:25 AM

Sneals2000

03-27-2006, 06:05 AM

I thought that the whole idea of these initial one-year contracts was that they downloaded statistics from your box and, in the case of multi-room contracts, checked that the 'phone numbers were the same. I thought that, if they didn't get their statistics, they would disable your account.

Originally, the Sky box was subsidised by BIB (British Interactive Broadcasting - a joint venture between Matsu****a, HSBC and a few others) - to ensure you connected your box to the phone line for an interactive return channel for their "Open" interactive service (which included HSBC TV banking). In return for a £180ish subsidy on the box, you agreed to 1 year phone connection to allow you to access these services - many of which used slightly premium rate numbers to generate some income on the phone access (it was usually local call rates + a small amount extra a minute).

This subsidy continued when Sky bought out BIB, and rebranded Open as Sky Active ISTR.

I didn't know that the subsidy included a clause that allowed them to derive viewing stats from your box - that may have been introduced after BIB ceased? My Sky box (non Sky+) certainly has no requirement to be connected to the phone line, and has been disconnected on a number of occasions for lengthy periods. The only other use for the phone line is for PPV ISTR - but the box will allow you to watch a number of PPV events between ring-backs. (If it can't ring-back after a certain number have been viewed it will stop you viewing any further PPV material)

I don't know what the situation is for current Sky and Sky+ subscriptions - but AIUI the phone line requirement is not a permanent one - and is tied to the purchase of the box not the subscription. It would be possible to buy a second hand box and not have to connect it to the phone line I believe.

(It is, or was, possible - but very difficult - to get a Sky+ subscription independently of a Sky programme subscription - allowing you to use Sky+ with a FTV card just paying the £10/month Sky+ sub)

The multi-room situation is different - as the phone line is used, in this case, to confirm that the various receivers in a multi-room installation are physically connected to the same phone line (via Caller ID on a Sky triggered ring back) to ensure the mirror-ed subs aren't being used to share viewing in different homes.

I know of people who have disconnected a multi-room receiver from the phone line, because it has been inconvenient to run a phone line to a specific position, and they've received letters from Sky informing them that they will need to pay a full subscription for their second reeceiver if they don't re-connect it.

I guess the Sky+ HD system may have different terms and conditions - and eventually they may replace a phone connection with a broadband connection (as more and more people ditch land lines in favour of mobiles or VOIP) and then use IP addresses as a form of location?

Sneals2000

03-27-2006, 06:15 AM

Gary, it seems it's the same as current STBs. Just going by the Installers powerpoint, which states:

Yep - you'd expect it to be RGB in on the VCR SCART and RGB out on the TV SCART to allow for it to be used as a "loop through" device for displays with a single RGB SCART.

SCART is uni-directional in RGB terms (you have either an RGB input OR an RGB output on a single connection), whereas in Composite terms it is bi-directional (you have both composite input AND output on the same connector)

If you were to offer RGB output on the VCR SCART you'd not also be able to offer RGB input on the same connector, so wouldn't be able to offer loop-through (which a lot of people use to connect their DVD players to their TV through their Sky box) unless they were able to switch the VCR SCART between RGB input and output - which would be quite a significant engineering change (and another installation option to get wrong...)

Sneals2000

03-27-2006, 06:18 AM

Is the Sky + HD available without a sub? I have seen mention of £399 without a sub, and £299 with? Presumably without the sub, you don't have the 12 month phone requirement, and could use the box as a FTA or FTV (with Freesat card?) box without the Sky+ facilities?

You could regard the £100 difference as the "phone line subsidy" in this case?

I wonder if you would be able to pay the £10/month for Sky+ functionality and/or subscribe at a later date (as if you had bought the box second hand) and whether that would still require a 12 month phone connection - or whether the 12 month issue is purely to save the £100 cost difference between a subbed and non-subbed box?

Sneals2000

03-27-2006, 06:20 AM

Or a real magic VoIP adapter that allows modems to work...?

Don't some VOIP adaptors have a "G711 FAX passthrough" mode - does anyone know if this might offer a modem solution?

sanderton

03-27-2006, 06:36 AM

kitschcamp

03-27-2006, 06:38 AM

I have one that offers fax passthrough, but I haven't tried to make it work with a pure modem. I didn't even think it'd work, but I'd be delighted to be told I'm wrong!

Sneals2000

03-27-2006, 06:40 AM

I have one that offers fax passthrough, but I haven't tried to make it work with a pure modem. I didn't even think it'd work, but I'd be delighted to be told I'm wrong!

I have dim recollections that Faxes use the same data standard as one of the modem standards (hence Fax modem cards) - but I don't know if there is more to it than this...

Heuer

03-27-2006, 06:42 AM

I have two Sky boxes but I refused to allow them to monitor my viewing habits on principle. I therefore paid for a new Sky box and dish to be installed and subcribed to one of the basic packages and there was thus no requirement to have a phone line. Recently I bought a second box off eBay and use it with a FTA card for basic channels.

A friend of mine who has been a Sky subscriber for 10 years recently upgraded to Sky+ but disconnected the phone line as he was having the Home Theatre room re-done. Sky were straight on his case with threatening letters. He phoned them explained the situation was temporary but they were unrelenting. Told them he was cancelling his sub immediately and would send the box back. He was called back within minutes and told they valued his custom and to ignore the letter! He still refused and is waiting a call from 'Team 2' who tend to bribe you with free Pizza for a month or 6 months free viewing.

sanderton

03-27-2006, 07:36 AM

I don't belive that the phone line is used to monitor your viewing habits, I think that's an urban myth.

Sneals2000

03-27-2006, 08:03 AM

I don't belive that the phone line is used to monitor your viewing habits, I think that's an urban myth.

Sky DO have software that allows them to analyse what was recorded/replayed on Sky+ boxes (just as Tivo do) and also what channels a Sky box was tuned to. They also have software that monitors "Press Red" button usage - to allow them to measure how often interactive apps are used. I believe Sky reserve the right to sell this data - in an anonymous form - commercially.

However this is not the same as viewing figures (as you don't know how many people, if any, are watching a Sky box, just what it is tuned to).

I would be surprised if all boxes kept full figures of every channel change - but it wouldn't surprise me if some selective monitoring was done. (Either with a small sample of boxes, or just certain programmes/channels flagged for monitoring)

kitschcamp

03-27-2006, 08:19 AM

Don't some VOIP adaptors have a "G711 FAX passthrough" mode - does anyone know if this might offer a modem solution?
Further reading suggests not. The best hope is PCMA or PCMU and keeping your fingers crossed that you get a good trouble free and lag free internet connection... The G711 only works for fax.

frogster

03-27-2006, 08:48 AM

It's £299 + £120 a year and free installation, or £399 + £60 installation and no sub.
The original no-brainer.Not quite. You are forgetting the viewing sub. Those without a viewing sub don't qualify for the £299 price. A viewing sub will cost at least £240 per year for anything worthwhile.

There are several parts to Sky HD:

1) The box
2) The installation
3) The viewing subscription
4) The HD subscription
5) The recording subscription.

In fact it's hard to imagine anything else that they could possibly charge extra for, though some of them are waived for those who pay the top viewing sub.

frogster

03-27-2006, 08:53 AM

I didn't know that the subsidy included a clause that allowed them to derive viewing stats from your box ...
The subsidy doesn't. The viewing contracts do.
It is generally supposed that Sky don't actually do this though there is nothing stopping them (if you leave the phone plugged in).

As you suspect, the main reason for the phone connection (outside of the multiroom security requirement of course) is so that people will be able to buy things (PPV, gambling, games) on a whim.

thechachman

03-27-2006, 09:11 AM

In fact it's hard to imagine anything else that they could possibly charge extra for, though some of them are waived for those who pay the top viewing sub. Waiting for the inevitable 'per keypress' charge for using a remote :D

frogster

03-27-2006, 09:12 AM

Just to clarify:

1) The Sky+ now needs a phone connection to be activated, regardless of where you buy it or who installs it. This isn't made clear anywhere on or in the box.

2) The T&Cs require the phone connection for one year if Sky install the Sky+ box. In practice I have never known this to be checked, though Heuer seems to know otherwise.

3) The regular Sky box, if provided free by Sky, should either be left connected to the phone or an extra £25 should be paid. I have never known this to be checked.

4) The £150 Freesat box requires no phone connection.

5) The HD box appears to have the same restrictions as the Sky+.

6) Apparently Sky digibox modems will work over a good VOIP connection. So any VOIP adapter with an RJ11 socket for a phone should work with a digibox modem. I see no reason why the HD box should be any different.

7)You can have just the Sky+ recording functions without a viewing sub for £10 p/m. The phone connection is required but not checked.

8)The phone connection is checked regularly for multiroom subs and warning notices are issued after a few weeks.

Heuer

03-27-2006, 09:19 AM

With the Sky+ box they can also disable your recordings after a certain time or if you unsubscribe from a particular channel package.

All the Sky boxes 'phone home' at intervals hence they know if you have unplugged. Why police it so heavily if they are not getting something in return?

sanderton

03-27-2006, 10:36 AM

The subsidy doesn't. The viewing contracts do.
It is generally supposed that Sky don't actually do this though there is nothing stopping them (if you leave the phone plugged in)..

Just had a look through the contract (it's on sky.com as a PDF) and can't see anything to that effect?

Sneals2000

03-27-2006, 10:45 AM

With the Sky+ box they can also disable your recordings after a certain time or if you unsubscribe from a particular channel package.

They don't "disable" your recording when you unsubscribe from a package. The way Sky+ works is that the recording made to the hard drive is still encrypted with VideoGuard. It isn't de-crypted until you playback. If your subscription doesn't allow you to watch the channel live it won't be able to decrypt a recording either.

Heuer

03-27-2006, 11:04 AM

So that would be disable then? :rolleyes:

frogster

03-27-2006, 11:43 AM

All the Sky boxes 'phone home' at intervals hence they know if you have unplugged. Why police it so heavily if they are not getting something in return?As I mentioned earlier, AFAIK they don't police the connection at all, except for multiroom subs.

Sneals2000

03-27-2006, 11:44 AM

So that would be disable then? :rolleyes:

Semantically I thought it was a bit different. It isn't a case that the Sky + actively stops you watching a recording when you cease subscribing, rather your subscription / viewing card / CAM does, by dint of the mechanism for watching recordings being identical to watching live TV...

I took "disable" to imply that a watchable recording existed on the drive, but the Sky+ box stopped you replaying it.

frogster

03-27-2006, 11:49 AM

Just had a look through the contract (it's on sky.com as a PDF) and can't see anything to that effect?Have they changed them again? The last time I read a contract there certainly was a mention of this. Something along the lines of "if the digibox is connected to the phone we may use it to send data and you authorise us to do so". Above all for PPV data, I suppose.

sanderton

03-27-2006, 11:57 AM

It says that, but doesn't say what data. I don't take that as authorising carte-blanche sending of personal data, but authorising the sending of data when needed under the other clauses of the contract. I would expect a company like Sky to have a much more fireproof cluase if they wanted to use your personal data without attracting legal action!

ericd121

03-27-2006, 12:12 PM

There are several parts to Sky HD:

1) The box
2) The installation
3) The viewing subscription
4) The HD subscription
5) The recording subscription.
Bringing the thread back to pricing, I've been comparing my current triple play (Television, Telephone, t'Internet) set-up with the two options for Hi-Def.

Currently, each month I'm paying
£22 for 2Mb ADSL to Plusnet,
£11 to BT for a phone I don't use but need for the ADSL and
nowt for my FreeView.
Total £33 per month.

If I had access to TeleWest, I could have the Freedom Bundle for
£35.00 which consists of
broadband complete (4MB),
Starter TV (equivalent channels to FreeView) and
Talk Weekends - a phone I wouldn't use but TeleWest insist I take with the TV package.
Add to that
£15 for the TVDrive - HI-Def receiver and recorder.
Total £50 per month. An increase on my current monthly spend of £17.

The Sky options, as listed by frogster above.
The box - Purchase price £299
The installation - Nothing
£15 per month - The viewing subscription
£10 per month - The HD subscription
£10 per month - The recording subscription.
Total £35 per month.

Add to that the £33 per month for ADSL to Plusnet, and to BT for the phone.

Total £68 per month. An increase on my current monthly spend of £35.

So, anyone in a TeleWest area who wished to go Hi-Def could save themselves £18 every month, not to mention a one-off fee of £299 by declining Sky's deadly embrace.

JeromeO'Donohoe

03-27-2006, 12:28 PM

but also succumbing to the horrors of Cable customer service, and dubious levels of content from Sky...unless anyone's seen statements like "Sky Sports HD will be carried on Telewest" ?
Sky are also set to offer some kind of broadband service from their box, somehow...no idea how the upstream will work. I'm also pretty excited by the SMS recording doohickey.

Sneals2000

03-27-2006, 01:04 PM

Yep - I think it would be wise to see how many HD channels appear on Telewest before assuming it will be comparable to Sky.

It may be that monopoly issues mean that Sky have to allow their HD Sport and Movie channels to be carried via Telewest - though they may use the MPEG4 vs MPEG2 argument I guess...

Automan

03-27-2006, 01:05 PM

I can't imagine the current Sky box or Sky+ box is smart enough to store for a month a viewers activity and transmit it.

I think its limit is your viewing card pin and maybe box office charges.

Re using VOIP for the call. I imagine you can but my VOIP provider charges for 0800 calls and as I have multiroom so I'm sure Sky would be on as my boxes would be calling from the wrong number.

My ADSL / VOIP FritzBoxFON is programmed to route all 0800 number via BT and block (report engaged) all numbers Amstrad Emailers try to dial (no adverts or daily email calls).

Automan.

sanderton

03-27-2006, 01:31 PM

So, anyone in a TeleWest area who wished to go Hi-Def could save themselves £18 every month, not to mention a one-off fee of £299 by declining Sky's deadly embrace.

Like for like though Eric!

Telewest have so far confirmed the BBC trial, plus a downloading service which as far as I can gather has about two films on it. That's it.

Sky has the BBC trial, Sky One HD, Sky Sports HD, Sky Movies 9 HD, Sky Movies 10 HD, Discovery HD, National Geographic HD, Artsworld HD and Sky Box office.

Plus of course regular Sky has more channels than Telewest anyway - and that's before any channels Telewst have to remove to fit in their high bandwidth MPEG-2 HD channels onto their bandwidth limited cables.

cwaring

03-27-2006, 01:48 PM

Telewest have so far confirmed the BBC trial, plus a downloading service which as far as I can gather has about two films on it. That's it.
Technically it's VOD, not 'downloading'.

Yes, they have a couple of series and one film ("Sin City", I believe) on their Teleport service available in HD.

Sky has the BBC trial, Sky One HD, Sky Sports HD, Sky Movies 9 HD, Sky Movies 10 HD, Discovery HD, National Geographic HD, Artsworld HD and Sky Box office.
NTL:Telewest could also have those channels (barring SBO of course); if Sky let them!

Plus of course regular Sky has more channels than Telewest anyway
It doesn't have many more popular channels. (Personally I'd like Sky2 and FX but that's about it!)

and that's before any channels Telewst have to remove to fit in their high bandwidth MPEG-2 HD channels onto their bandwidth limited cables.
As I understand it, when TW had finally upgraded all areas to digital and can therefore shut-down its analogue service, there will be more than enough capacity for HD channels. Just going by what I've read on DS. It's not something I can speak on with any kind of authority :)

JeromeO'Donohoe

03-27-2006, 02:04 PM

Telewest don't carry FX? Dealbreaker! No Family Guy or The Wire! boo!

ericd121

03-27-2006, 02:06 PM

Like for like though Eric!Point taken.

Though of the channels mentioned, I'd only be interested in Sky Sports HD.

IF it were available (and TW and Sky charged the same premium as they do now) the figures would now be
TeleWest £50 as above plus £22 for Sky Sports HD
Total £72 per month

Sky £68 as above plus £19 for Sky Sports HD
Total £87 per month. Now only a difference of £15 per month.

Like Carl, I'm only interested in the popular channels;
I'd be happy with less 'choice' if it meant quality progs in Hi-Def.

cwaring

03-27-2006, 02:59 PM

Telewest don't carry FX? Dealbreaker! No Family Guy or The Wire! boo!
Yeah. No "JAG" :( "NCIS" is coming to five though and I'll be able to record both it and "Casualty" on my TVDrive :)

sanderton

03-27-2006, 03:38 PM

Technically it's VOD, not 'downloading'.

Yes, they have a couple of series and one film ("Sin City", I believe) on their Teleport service available in HD.

NTL:Telewest could also have those channels (barring SBO of course); if Sky let them!

My understanding is that Sky MUST let Telewest have any channels at a comemrcial rate if asked?

I thought the film(s) dowloaded to the hard disk rather than streamed? Obviusly I don't have one so will stand corrected.

sanderton

03-27-2006, 04:03 PM

eric23

03-27-2006, 04:25 PM

And for those of us who live in an NTL area, or don't even have the joy of a dug-up, waterlogged pavement at all, the options are...

Sky

:(

cwaring

03-27-2006, 05:34 PM

My understanding is that Sky MUST let Telewest have any channels at a comemrcial rate if asked?
Who decides what that rate is, if not Sky, and why have they not let them have Sky2/3 then?

I thought the film(s) dowloaded to the hard disk rather than streamed? Obviusly I don't have one so will stand corrected.
Only the new TV Drive has a hard drive but the Teleport service is available to all customers. Programmes are stored at head-end and streamed.

JeromeO'Donohoe

03-27-2006, 06:08 PM

Looks like TiVo gets a stay of execution. A US-based friend of mine who has become dependent on the TiVo-recorded programmes I send him over the net thanks to undiscussable software has decided it's worthwhile for him to pay for multiroom on my Sky sub, so I can keep TiVo recording rugby matches for him!

Quite a while ago my friend at Sky told me that there was going to be provision for squirting out files from the USB2 port onto a portable device or PC. I'm thinking these plans were shelved for obvious DRM reasons. Can't you record the matches on your numerous MCE devices though? I understand you perhaps don't want to impinge on whatever your HD box might be up to of course....

Sneals2000

03-27-2006, 06:47 PM

I can't imagine the current Sky box or Sky+ box is smart enough to store for a month a viewers activity and transmit it.

I think its limit is your viewing card pin and maybe box office charges.

Everything I have read in the broadcast press implies it is more than that. Obviously the Box Office stuff is stored until a receiver ring back to Sky takes place. It may be that only some receivers are reporting their viewing habits - and it may be that they do it more frequently than monthly. They may also only remember certain aspects of viewing not everything.

Certainly there is red button activity logging on at least some receivers - as there are Red button figures for DSat - though not for DCab and DTT.

Re using VOIP for the call. I imagine you can but my VOIP provider charges for 0800 calls and as I have multiroom so I'm sure Sky would be on as my boxes would be calling from the wrong number.

I think the problem with VOIP is also that the audio is processed through a codec optimised for speech, not V90 modem tones, and the Sky modem is less than efficient at dropping down to lower baud rates, and instead fails on what it sees as a poor line.

Apparently VONAGE have a system (which works with Tivo?) that allows you to send a *99 prefix to their VOIP adaptors which disables echo cancellation which improves modem performance. Unfortunately Sky boxes can't use * as a dialling prefix...

My ADSL / VOIP FritzBoxFON is programmed to route all 0800 number via BT and block (report engaged) all numbers Amstrad Emailers try to dial (no adverts or daily email calls).

Automan.

I suspect the e-mailer will work at lower baud rates than the Sky box (on the numbers it does dial, if any)

frogster

03-28-2006, 01:47 AM

frogster

03-28-2006, 01:58 AM

If I had access to TeleWest, I could have the Freedom Bundle for
£35.00 which consists of
broadband complete (4MB),
Starter TV (equivalent channels to FreeView) and
Talk Weekends - a phone I wouldn't use but TeleWest insist I take with the TV package.
Add to that
£15 for the TVDrive - HI-Def receiver and recorder.
Total £50 per month. An increase on my current monthly spend of £17.

The Sky options, as listed by frogster above.
The box - Purchase price £299
The installation - Nothing
£15 per month - The viewing subscription
£10 per month - The HD subscription
£10 per month - The recording subscription.
Total £35 per month.You don't say which HD channels are included with the TVDrive.

Also your £15 Sky viewing sub would include very few HD channels (probably only one of either SkyOneHD - which by all accounts will be mostly SD material anyway - or DiscoveryHD), plus of course the free BBC channel which doesn't require any sort of sub.
I wouldn't consider worthwhile any Sky sub that was less than the old "Family Pack" which is now £20, IIRC. So the minimum worthwhile Sky HD sub with recording functions would be £20 + £10 + £10 = £40.
To which of course you would still need to add all your phone/ADSL costs.

frogster

03-28-2006, 02:10 AM

I can't imagine the current Sky box or Sky+ box is smart enough to store for a month a viewers activity and transmit it.
I think its limit is your viewing card pin and maybe box office charges.This has been extensively discussed elsewhere. The general consensus was that the box is smart enough to do it and that a phone call once a week or so would be adequate to send enough useful info. It is also widely accepted that, possible and legal as it is, Sky don't actually do it.
This is my opinion too: could happen but doesn't.

Re using VOIP for the call. I imagine you can but my VOIP provider charges for 0800 calls and as I have multiroom so I'm sure Sky would be on as my boxes would be calling from the wrong number.You would have to use a VOIP provider that provides a geographical number and would then need to give this number to Sky as being your main number. Obviously no one would do this unless they had some ulterior motive like wanting to use multiroom boxes in different locations, or to use any box outside of the official geographical location.

sanderton

03-28-2006, 02:50 AM

Who decides what that rate is, if not Sky, and why have they not let them have Sky2/3 then?

Only the new TV Drive has a hard drive but the Teleport service is available to all customers. Programmes are stored at head-end and streamed.

I think the phrase is "normal commercial rates" - not sure who actually determines that.

HD movies are only available to TV Drive owners though, so HD movies might be downloaded first?

cwaring

03-28-2006, 02:54 AM

HD movies are only available to TV Drive owners though, so HD movies might be downloaded first?
No. All content is 'streamed' from the head-end.

You don't say which HD channels are included with the TVDrive.
None, because there aren't any at the moment ;) As already mentioned TW's Teleport service has a limited amount of HD content; some of which, as I understand it, is simply up-scaled from SD.

B33K34

03-28-2006, 03:25 AM

I think the phrase is "normal commercial rates" - not sure who actually determines that.

HD movies are only available to TV Drive owners though, so HD movies might be downloaded first?

Actually fair, reasonable and non-discriminatory - OFT or Ofcom regulated i'd expect.

frogster

03-28-2006, 06:04 AM

As already mentioned TW's Teleport service has a limited amount of HD content; some of which, as I understand it, is simply up-scaled from SD.This applies to Sky also.

ericd121

03-28-2006, 08:46 AM

I wouldn't consider worthwhile any Sky sub that was less than the old "Family Pack" which is now £20, IIRC. So the minimum worthwhile Sky HD sub with recording functions would be £20 + £10 + £10 = £40.
To which of course you would still need to add all your phone/ADSL costs.I was costing out the minimum a new subscriber, like myself, would have to pay to receive Hi-Def.
According to http://www.sky.com/ordersky/joinsky , the minimum sub is £15, for two out of six mixes of channels, most of which I am not interested in (or wouldn't have the time to watch).

GarySargent

04-07-2006, 03:38 AM

I have Sky HD being installed 22nd May! :D

eric23

04-07-2006, 07:00 AM

Ooh, you lucky cow! ;)

Still waiting for my callback...

sanderton

04-07-2006, 01:19 PM

Mine's arriving on the 22nd too - busy day for Sky installers I think!

Bloke on the phone couldn't get his head around my wanting multiroom but not wanting to move the Sky box. Kept trying to explain to me that I didn't need two Sky boxes for the same TV; I kept trying to explain to him that the multroom box was to attach to a TiVo as I had no confidence in Sky+!

eric23

04-07-2006, 02:02 PM

Er Stuart, do you have to rub it in both here AND on Digital Spy?!

Still waiting for my call...

Automan

04-07-2006, 02:48 PM

Gloom, Still no call and my Pansonic HDTV is now obsolete. Replaced by a new model with two HDMI inputs (but three cooling fans).

Automan.

eric23

04-07-2006, 05:38 PM

Are you referring to the TH42PX60, Automan? Saw it in John Lewis on Wednesday. Stunning. Now if only I could find it for around the £1000 mark. ;)

Bakdraft

04-07-2006, 05:56 PM

Mine's arriving on the 22nd too - busy day for Sky installers I think!

Oh it's grim... I can feel it already... No phone call yet despite being pre - registered for ages . Last time this happened ( Tivo were wanting beta testers for 2.5 software ) and despite me registering for it early, my brother in law got selected and he only applied at the last minute!! :eek:

I am seriously going to be fed up if I don't here something soon, especially as they took my £30!!

Also if you got 22nd May it isn't going to give much time before 1oth June!!!!

Dave

sanderton

04-07-2006, 06:33 PM

Er Stuart, do you have to rub it in both here AND on Digital Spy?!

Still waiting for my call...

Ah, thought I recognised the name over there. Told the other half about how much HDMI cables cost yet? :)

Automan

04-08-2006, 03:13 AM

Eric23, yes that's the new Panasonic TV....

Sanderton, in the infamous Powerpoint installers presentation I think it says SkyHD comes with an HDMI cable provided.

I have two cables ready even if it does not. All I need is a SkHD box!

Automan.

Automan

04-08-2006, 04:13 AM

Just got the call to my mobile (number was withheld).

Call took 9mins 30secs which was mainly them reading the terms & conditions.

My install booked for 23rd May.

Automan.

GarySargent

04-08-2006, 09:28 AM

I asked them and they did say they would provide a HDMI cable.

sanderton

04-08-2006, 01:09 PM

I believe Eric wanted a 10m one, which I doubt they will provide! I need a 3m one, and I'm assuming I'll need to buy that.

eric23

04-08-2006, 04:15 PM

Stuart, I purchased a 10m one from TVcables.co.uk (http://www.tvcables.co.uk/cgi-bin/tvcables/10M-HDMI-PRO.html) - good company to deal with, I've only heard positive comments.

Told the other half about how much HDMI cables cost yet?
Oh yes! Actually, I had relatively few grumbles this time! I think he must be getting into the whole prosumer thing... :D

kitschcamp

04-09-2006, 01:30 AM

Well we've taken the plunge and bought... a second tivo. Sorry. Freshly subscribed yesterday.

OzSat

04-09-2006, 02:11 AM

Is anyone thinking of hooking up a TiVo to SkyHD?

I know it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense, but then people do it with Sky+.

paxton

04-09-2006, 02:38 AM

TIVO_YORK99

04-09-2006, 02:53 AM

Yes, I plan to do that. We currently have just a regular sky dig box, but I presume it'll work in just the same way, ie hook tivo up to one of tuners on the SkyHD box and record any HD content from the other.

Love the Tivo interface and endpad too much! And have no experience of how accurate the sky+ series links are compared to Tivo. Heard some horror stories, but that was a while back and people generally post failures on forums, not successes, so my view is probably a little skewed.

Can anyone give me an opinion on the Sky+ series links etc? Does it all seem to work on the major channels in the same was as Tivo? I assume an "endpad-type-hack" isn't needed because it starts recording when the broadcast does - is that right?

'fraid not. Sometimes when a programme badly overruns than SKY+ will record longer, however this has only happened once for me and I've lost the end of about 3 or 4 football matches (fortunately I made sure I recorded the programmes after the football just in case!)

You can have auto padding on Sky+ though that works very well with having two tuners. I can't remember the last time I have missed the end of a "normal" programme, in fact I think its probably only happened once whereas it happened all the time on Tivo as its only got one tuner.

paxton

04-09-2006, 03:04 AM

Thanks for that tivo_york99, much appreciated.

I was just searching around for more info on the "Tivo with Sky+" thing and saw a post about not being able to watch a sky+ recording if tivo wants to record something. Does anyone know if this applies to live tv?

ie if I'm watching England spank Brazil in glorious HD this summer and tivo wants to record Holby City or the like, will this work? Is it not ok with dual-tuner? If so, why would this be different if I'm watching a sky+ recording and tivo wants to record something? :confused: Tivo does it ok...

Automan

04-09-2006, 03:41 AM

If Tivo wanted to record Holby City it would transmit the ir to tell your Sky+ (or Sky HD) to change to the channel. Thus you will no longer be watching your HD channel but Holby City.

The Sky +/HD may have two tuners but only one output - This is the problem.

My Tivo on my main TV has a standard Digibox with multiroom. The only snag with that is £120.00 per year to Sky :(

Its on one scart and sky+ is on another and thus both products can be used to their fullest extents.

Also of course Sky HD's IR codes will have to be added to the Tivo database.
As Gary is getting one on day 1 this should not take very long.

Automan.

paxton

04-09-2006, 03:47 AM

The Sky +/HD may have two tuners but only one output - This is the problem.

Ah...thanks Automan. This is the problem then. :(

So to be able to keep my Tivo functionality AND have HD, I would have to stay with my current regular digibox with Tivo, and also have a SkyHD box.

I assume this is perfectly possible on the one dish (and of course, on my Pio 434, bought 2yrs ago in readiness for HD) /

mikerr

04-09-2006, 04:06 AM

Told the other half about how much HDMI cables cost yet? :)Mine cost £4.50 from http://stores.ebay.co.uk/West-Coast-Cables

He'll make one to any length you like.

Work fine with TVdrive & 37" LCD

Automan

04-09-2006, 06:31 AM

Yes the best option is to have both Tivo with its own digibox and Sky HD - The best of both worlds....

Of course your Sky Installer will have to run two more feeds to the dish from the chosen location of Sky HD.

Automan.

Ah...thanks Automan. This is the problem then. :(

So to be able to keep my Tivo functionality AND have HD, I would have to stay with my current regular digibox with Tivo, and also have a SkyHD box.

I assume this is perfectly possible on the one dish (and of course, on my Pio 434, bought 2yrs ago in readiness for HD) /

eric23

04-09-2006, 12:27 PM

It'll be interesting to see if my installer will be accomodating at all. I'm hoping he'll run two new coax cables for the SkyHD service, leaving my existing one where it is for FreeSat. Then I'm hoping he'll connect up the FreeSat coax to the new quad LNB. But my LNBs are mounted on a non-standard bracket. I bet it'll be a headache... I wish my local independent installer was a bit further along with HD, then I would order through them instead of getting a jobsworth from Sky do it!

Bakdraft

04-09-2006, 05:29 PM

I have to say I am a bit nervous about all of this...

My pioneer 505XDE is fed by my DV868 which upscales to HD and I have to say it is nothing special...

So I am a bit concerned that Sky asks you to comitt to HD for a year, pay £299 + £120 all without me ever seeing HD in the first place!!

I can't remember ever comitting so much money to something I had never seen to check whether it's worth it....

It sould be that if I am unhappy there is some sort of back out clause....I often wonder whether all the claims about how good HD is is made by people whohave inferior equipment...

But I guess we will soon see

eric23

04-10-2006, 05:53 AM

I must say, I do have some concerns myself, Bakdraft. We're all purchasing something on the basis of what it "could be". The compression on the HD channels might be awful, but you kind of hope that they'll be doing all they can to impress.

There will, no doubt, be all sorts of ways to force them to give you your money back, distance selling, cooling off period etc. etc. Let's hope we don't have to start quoting legislation!

Fozzie

04-10-2006, 07:01 AM

As a new customer they they specifically said as part of the the T&Cs that I have 14 days after installation (or was it 28?!) to cancel, so I'm not worried at all. (Note to self, don't cancel NTL just yet!)

GarySargent

04-10-2006, 07:05 AM

I think it was 28 days.

sanderton

04-10-2006, 07:18 AM

Nice big HDTV now on order to go with Sky+HD. Panansonic 36-inch CRT duly sold on eBay, was picked up today. Now have no TV at all in the living room!

Bakdraft

04-10-2006, 07:55 AM

I think it was 28 days.

Hi,

I have just come off the phone having booked my installation for the 24th May :D and they told me I had 30 days after installation to cancel and receive a full refund on anything I had paid.

I am mighty glad about that as I was a bit concerned that it is not going to be all it's hyped up to be.

They also said that there may be extra charges levied at the installation if ' Extra equipment was needed e.g. cables.....?? ' I asked him to be more specific i.e. new LNB or dish... he saidd that they should be included. He didn't know the length of the HDMI cable.

He also said that the first installations will take place on the 22nd... which is pretty late into May

Oh well time to book a days Holiday!

Dave

paxton

04-10-2006, 08:21 AM

Bakdraft

04-10-2006, 09:20 AM

Hi Bakdraft,

Do you mind me asking when you pre-ordered your SkyHD? I pre-registered way back when but didn't receive the email that was supposed to have come round, but I managed to pre-order on 4th April.

I just wondered if they were calling people in date order of when they pre-ordered.

Cheers.

I 'showed interest ( I think that's the term) ages ago I would check when, but I can only do that from home not work, so I could let you know later. For Pre-ordering, after they sent out the invitation, it took about 5 days to make up my mind and actually pre-registered about the 3rd I think! As I say I can be more accurate when I get home.

I think that if they took your £30 then they will call you and most likely soon. I also think the terms and conditions said they would get round to calling you in a first come first serve basis

They called me at lunchtime today.

Dave

eric23

04-10-2006, 09:52 AM

They've been trying to work out how the installations sequence works over at Digital Spy (http://forum.digitalspy.co.uk/board/showthread.php?t=362051) but so far, it seems completely random!

Sky did make a statement about it being "first come, first served" but that's not true. People who have booked way after me are being served first. :mad:

Just sitting here trying to be virtuous...

paxton

04-10-2006, 10:20 AM

OK, thanks chaps.

They took my £30, so I guess it's just sit and wait then.

Fozzie

04-10-2006, 11:43 AM

Please don't let this thread degenerate into the "but I ordered at 1037hrs on the first day and its not fair blah blah blah whine whine whine ..." There's enough of that crap on certain other forums!

eric23

04-10-2006, 02:47 PM

I'm guessing you've already had your call, Fozzie? ;)

Fozzie

04-10-2006, 03:45 PM

I'm guessing you've already had your call, Fozzie? ;)That is of course correct ;) But then I hadn't put my life on hold waiting for the phone to ring, like some people seem to have done. I'm sure that Sky didn't mean literally that people will be called absolutely strictly in order of sign-up. Can you imagine, the whole call centre put on hold, waiting to see if Mr Smith, number 1,374th on the list answers his phone....yes, yes, he's answered, call the next person :)

I do find it amusing/interesting that we've all shelled out a load of cash for something we (or at least most of us) have never even seen, let alone decided whether the extra quality is worth paying for!

The feeling I get from all the childish reactions over at AVforums is that a lot of people have signed up just so that they can say they've got Sky HD and gain some sort of kudos, rather than because they neccesarily want/need the extra quality. Myself, on the other hand.... :)

I will of course be sad to say goodbye to TiVo. It has served me extremely well, as well as giving me hours of hacking and tweaking frustration and fun :)

Automan

04-10-2006, 04:26 PM

My instal should be easy
1. New octo LNB on dish (which is easy to reach)
2. extra single (or replace single cable with twin) to kitchen - about 6-7m cable run

Then
Sky HD - living room
Normal digibox in living room (for Tivo)
Sky+ in kitchen
Normal digibox in bedroom (for tivo) - fta channels only

Simple - I hope :)

http://online.tns-global.com/wix/p138521845.aspx may also be of interest if you live in the correct area (HD Freeview Trails - BBC Etc).

Automan.

paxton

04-11-2006, 03:15 AM

Apologies Fozzie - I'm well aware of the frenzy on other forums and wasn't intending to start some of debate on install dates, it was just a genuine question.

I'm still in pondering over what to do, to be honest. I've had an HDready tv for a couple of years now, waiting for the box to show it, but I've had Tivo for much longer and am rather reluctant to give it up.

I guess the problem is that I don't know if Sky+ is a sufficient replacement for the way I use Tivo, which is nothing special, just plenty of shows on season pass on the main channels. I've never seen a Sky+ demo, let alone it working in the flesh, I've only heard horror stories about the fact that the "series links" tend to be very flakey. :( Any comments?

On the other hand, I'd love the ability to record/watch the movies in HD and 5.1, and I'm REALLY looking forward to the HD sports coverage. :D

I'm debating whether to hook the Tivo up to the SkyHD box and see if that works the way I want. I'm aware that I will run into problems for certain combinations of watching/recording, but running my existing digibox in parrallel is perhaps stretching the monthly subs a little far.

eric23

04-11-2006, 04:09 AM

I fee very much the same way as you, paxton. I am also reluctant to give up TiVo functionality, I'm also very concerned about Sky+ inadequacies, but I'm looking forward to be able to record the satellite stream, and also excited about 5.1.

I'm planning on running my TiVo on a FreeSat box. And then Sky+ will be completely seperate.

Also on your comments, Fozzie, about the reactions at AVforums, I haven't seen them there, but there's plenty of similar stuff on Digital Spy. I must confess I'm getting a little bit peeved about Sky not having called me back yet. For me, it's not about having the kudos of saying "I've got SkyHD", I've just been really excited about getting HD and can't wait for it! I also specifically want one of the first allocation of boxes, as I need a component output. So I'll be really pee'd off if other people who have ordered much later get a component output, and I don't!

Fozzie

04-11-2006, 05:15 AM

Is there a suggestion that the first generation boxes will have HDMI and component outputs, with component being dropped in future versions? Presumeably you'll get a reduced PQ if you use component instead of HDMI.

eric23

04-11-2006, 05:20 AM

Yes, they have said that they will be dropping component. It will only be on the first round of boxes, apparently. They haven't actually said WHEN they'll be dropping component, but I'm worried it's literally going to be on the first batch of boxes!

You've got to remember, some people have bought flat screens that ONLY have component inputs. As I understand it, there is a slight degredation in picture quality in analogue component HD, over the all-digital HDMI, but it is fairly insignificant - hardly noticeable. Pictures still look stunning on analogue HD!

Fozzie

04-11-2006, 05:33 AM

You've got to remember, some people have bought flat screens that ONLY have component inputs.Schoolboy error :)

I'm just hoping that the PQ is as good as some of the trailers etc I've downloaded and looked at on the PC. This one is a good side-by-side demo of SD and HD:

http://www.hd-channel.com/videos/pal_vs_hdv.wmv

(The Madagascar trailer is pretty impressive too. Does anyone know if the actual film has been released in HD as I can't seem to find any mention of it?)

OzSat

04-11-2006, 06:21 AM

I have been told by a couple of sources that the SD channels have no picture format coding and so display as widescreen - even though all their programming should be 4:3.

I've asked somebody to check on a Sky HD box and the answer came back that UKTV Gold is filling the complete widescreen tv picture via HDMI.

They are going to re-check that the stb and tv are correctly setup for switching - otherwise there could be a lot of stretched faces on HD-tvs.

paxton

04-11-2006, 06:32 AM

:eek: :confused:

That's not good.

OzSat

04-11-2006, 06:40 AM

I am also told that although the Sky HD comes with a slightly different style remote - the Sky+ codes are used. So you can not run Sky HD and Sky+ units side-by-side.

ericd121

04-11-2006, 12:40 PM

Nice big HDTV now on order to go with Sky+HD.What telly did you go for, in the end?

Automan

04-11-2006, 01:20 PM

sanderton

04-11-2006, 01:27 PM

Not so you'd notice, by all accounts.

Torchwood

04-11-2006, 02:08 PM

I have a Hitachi 32LD7200 - over HDMI it will only display in 16:9 ratio so 4:3 stuff is stretched - no option to manually correct it. I don't know whether this is common to all HDMI connections. I guess it is possible to connect via HDMI and scart and switch between them.

Bakdraft

04-11-2006, 02:15 PM

Schoolboy error :)

I'm just hoping that the PQ is as good as some of the trailers etc I've downloaded and looked at on the PC. This one is a good side-by-side demo of SD and HD:

http://www.hd-channel.com/videos/pal_vs_hdv.wmv

Oh dear... I just watched the side by side clips... and well I wasn't that impressed!

Sure there was a difference.... but it was just that a small difference... Perhaps viewing it on a PC is not the best way to go...

If it is that small a difference it'll be like you wage rise... nice for the first month or two... and then you will never notice the difference... or perhaps I might notice the extra £120 a year :rolleyes:

Still I will happily try it for the month with a genuine open mind....

I know that with my full Cinema setup the 50 inch plasma is not as impressive as the sound... everyone says that so maybe the combination of better sound and picture will be the thing.... I hope ;)

Fozzie

04-11-2006, 03:09 PM

I can see a big difference on my PC. Perhaps you've got your screen set to a low-res? Anyone else see much of a difference?

Bakdraft

04-11-2006, 03:29 PM

In fairness.... it was viewed on a laptop screen at 1024*768 but the screen is pretty good.

Fozzie

04-11-2006, 03:37 PM

I'm at 1280 x 800 32 bit colour - perhaps you're just visually challenged and should cancel Sky HD as soon as possible; It's going to be wasted on you :p :)

kmusgrave

04-12-2006, 05:35 AM

Nice big HDTV now on order to go with Sky+HD. Panansonic 36-inch CRT duly sold on eBay, was picked up today. Now have no TV at all in the living room!

Isn't it great to get all that space back? :D

OzSat

04-12-2006, 06:44 AM

I will not be a happy bunny if the box does not show 4:3 material in the correct aspect ratio (HD or SD).

My Panasonic TV offers no manual aspect ratio control when the HDMI connection is in use and thus the stb MUST get it right.

I have noted in recent times that Sky One (now normally in 16:9) has shown trailers for programs in 4:3 while maintaining a 16:9 signal.

However how it will work with none HD channels we will have to see....

Automan.I don't care how the black bars appear (tv or stb generated) but they must be there on 4:3 channels.

I am told that the FTA tests are working perfectly with 4:3 / 16:9 switch using HDMI - but the test using a Sky HD stb are so far are fixed on 16:9 - even on 4:3 output. So UKTV Gold in filling the whole screen.

It could be a stb or tv config problem which is still being looked at.

Sneals2000

04-12-2006, 07:11 AM

I don't care how the black bars appear (tv or stb generated) but they must be there on 4:3 channels.

I am told that the FTA tests are working perfectly with 4:3 / 16:9 switch using HDMI - but the test using a Sky HD stb are so far are fixed on 16:9 - even on 4:3 output. So UKTV Gold in filling the whole screen.

It could be a stb or tv config problem which is still being looked at.

If the interconnect is permanently 1080i or 720p via HDMI then the set top box has to deal with this. 1080i and 720p are only 16:9 formats - so 4:3 material will need black bars inserted left and right to correctly present 4:3 material within a 16:9 frame.

Given the lack of 576/50i HDMI compatibility on a number of HDMI displays I'd expect this to be a set top box function. I don't know if HDMI carrying SD can carry aspect ratio information as well.

The Telewest TV Drive also has HDMI output - and this pillarboxes the 4:3 SD channels to 16:9 HD with the expected pillarbox bars left and right. (Though there are slight centring issues)

This is almost certainly a set top box issue - not a TV one.

OzSat

04-12-2006, 08:10 AM

The HDMI website indicates that picture ratio information is a part of the system.

cyril

04-12-2006, 08:42 AM

eric23

04-12-2006, 09:06 AM

Yay, finally, at last! My call came. 26th May. Can't wait.

Now we really need to figure out how to hack Sky+ properly.

sanderton

04-12-2006, 01:28 PM

I'm thinking of synchronising Sky HD's To Do List with one provided by TiVo.

Any ideas? I was thinking of each night reading TiVo's To Do list and sending the infrared commands required for each recording to Sky HD.

Hmm, more than tricky I'd say.

But Sky are expected to launch their set-recording-by-SMS service soon, you could probably set something up using that using a DailyMail variant and an e-mail to SMS gateway. But it would cost...

Automan

04-12-2006, 01:33 PM

I got my £30.00 refund today but still worried that Sky may have screwed up when it comes to none HD 4:3 channels via HDMI.

I expect Sky will say no one uses 4:3 so we did not bother to support it :)

Automan.

sanderton

04-12-2006, 01:55 PM

What do you mean by "support it"? If you mean "give the option to stretch" then you may be right; I expect 4:3 over HDMI to be pillarboxed only. after all you can just switch to RGB is you want to distort the pic.

GarySargent

04-12-2006, 02:12 PM

Fozzie

04-12-2006, 02:15 PM

GarySargent

04-12-2006, 02:19 PM

I'm glad you said that Gary; I've got the same TV :)

Hook up your PC via the VGA port and select 1280x720 resolution.

Try running some of the High Definition samples through it and it looks stunning.

http://community.divx.com/movies/?categoryID=3
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/musicandvideo/hdvideo/contentshowcase.aspx
http://www.apple.com/quicktime/guide/hd/

Automan

04-12-2006, 02:30 PM

Stuart,

I just want the box to provide or false the TV (if the HDMI standard includes aspect ratio control) to 4:3 so the picture is always the correct aspect ratio.

Wheter done by the STB or the TV I don't care. Just as long as it works :)

I always watch TV now in the correct aspect ratio
e.g. just watching Jason King in 4:3 with grey at the sides.

Gary,
Re aspect control via HDMI on your TV - Is that with a 1080i signal?

My one will do it in some modes but not 1080i

Automan.
What do you mean by "support it"? If you mean "give the option to stretch" then you may be right; I expect 4:3 over HDMI to be pillarboxed only. after all you can just switch to RGB is you want to distort the pic.

Bakdraft

04-12-2006, 02:59 PM

For what it's worth my TV will allow me to force the screen format to 4:3 on the HDMI input and adds grey bars either side of the screen, so even if Sky do output incorrectly I can force it back. This may be the case for others too.

My TV is a Pioneer 436XDE.

In the options for the HDMI input there are also settings like "4:3 mode" (Wide or 4:3) which suggests the TV would support some kind of widescreen switching signal via HDMI.

Gary,

I have a 505XDE and there are no setup options for the HDMI. In which menu item are you finding this? I appreciate that you are 1 gen on from mine and that may be where the difference is, in which case I will ask pioneer if there is a software update for my screen.

Dave

GarySargent

04-12-2006, 04:58 PM

Yes the settings and aspect change controls work on 1080i.

To force change the aspect ratio I press the usual aspect ratio button (bottom right button on remote).

The HDMI option are (from a HDMI channel) in Menu->Option

There are options:

Position (horizontal & vertical)
Auto size (on/off - screen size switches automatically)
4:3 mode (Wide or 4:3)
Side mask (brightness of side mask in 4:3 mode, fixed or auto (matches pic))
HDMI Video format (Auto/Component 4:2:2/Component 4:4:4/RGB)
Drive mode (75Hz or 100Hz)

Bakdraft

04-13-2006, 03:21 PM

The HDMI option are (from a HDMI channel) in Menu->Option

Thanks Gary, but what do you mean ' from a HDMI channel?..... Do you mean when viewing a HDMI sourced input to the box?

Dave

GarySargent

04-13-2006, 04:50 PM

Thanks Gary, but what do you mean ' from a HDMI channel?..... Do you mean when viewing a HDMI sourced input to the box?

Dave

Yes, or at least when that AV channel is selected (there doesn't have to be an actual signal). The options available in the menus change depending on what input source channel you are on (eg SCART inputs have options for Component/RGB which aren't present on the same menus on a HDMI input).

Automan

04-13-2006, 05:07 PM

Gary,
My panasonic lets me change the aspect when the HDMI is selected with no signal but not when it is connected to a 1080i source.

Then it is locked to 16:9

Does your one give you aspect control when connected to a 1080i source?

Automan.

GarySargent

04-13-2006, 05:19 PM

Yes my Sony RDR-HXD910 DVD/HD recorder outputs 1080i via HDMI and I can control the aspect ratio as I please using the TV remote.

On BBC News 24 I can cycle between: Full (16:9), Zoom, 4:3 (with left/right side bars), and Wide (4:3 stretched). By default it selected Full.

Bakdraft

04-13-2006, 06:25 PM

Yes, or at least when that AV channel is selected (there doesn't have to be an actual signal). The options available in the menus change depending on what input source channel you are on (eg SCART inputs have options for Component/RGB which aren't present on the same menus on a HDMI input).

Hmm... how unfortunate... Despite my TV being only 8 months apart from yours, I do not have those choices on mine. :(

There is a HDMI options setup.. but with not much in it other than colour...

I also have a Pioneer DV868 ( HDMI + Ilink - upscaling to HD) and when this is used I cannot alter screen ratios (other than standard wide and standard full).

I will call Pioneer on Tuesday to see if there is a software update.

Bakdraft

04-13-2006, 06:30 PM

OzSat

04-14-2006, 03:23 AM

When I got my call from sky they informed me that the HD movie channels were 9 & 10.

I noticed that currently my Tivo shows

309 - SKYM9
310 - SKYM10
311 - SKYM9HD ( Sky box shows Sky Mov9HD )
312 - SKYM9HD ( Sky box shows Sky Mov10HD )

I guess somethings got to change there... Tribune I guess..All is OK.

Until yesterday, TiVo had a single place holder for Sky Movies HD at 311 and 312. They are adding the listings to these two and you have caught it halfway through the change.

On Saturday's update you should see all is OK (with listings) - SBO is also changing to two channels instead of a double placeholder and (where available) listings are being added to the other HD channels.

The only problem at present is that some channels (SBO, Nat Geo, Sky Sports) are not providing any listings.

OzSat

04-14-2006, 03:28 AM

My Toshiba 32WLT66 allows manual aspect changing to 4:3 or 16:9 in 1080i and the other two my DVD outputs (although not to 14:9 or subtitle which are available on other inputs).

chimaera

04-14-2006, 03:34 AM

I tried to order HD yesterday but it didn't go very well. First I tried the HD microsite. The only option it offered was HD Multiroom at an extra £30 pcm for me. I'm not interested in Multiroom, so I phoned Sky. They gave me a different number to call. I called that number, and was told they were far too busy to take an order. When I said that I could order it online except the HD-only package wasn't a choice on the website, they were adamant that you could not order HD online, until I told them I was looking at the order form at the time. "We've been told you can't order it online yet" was their excuse. Shows how much they know! It's even an option for new customers on the main Join Sky page, it's not just on the HD microsite. And if you are a new customer, there's an option for HD without Multiroom.

Anyway, the only suggestion was to go to Comet and pay £30, then wait for them to screw up the order for you, with no guaranteed or even estimated install date. At that point I gave up. I don't need it that much. I'll wait until they know what they are doing. It will be the end for TiVo unfortunately but I've had it since October 1 2000 so I think I've got plenty of value for money out of it.

Major dude

04-18-2006, 08:35 AM

It'll be interesting to see if my installer will be accomodating at all. I'm hoping he'll run two new coax cables for the SkyHD service, leaving my existing one where it is for FreeSat.

Booked my install for 26th May however agent was not prepared to arrange for two feeds off one dish as part of the install. Said an independant installer may do this for me though. :(

Heuer

04-18-2006, 09:20 AM

Booked my install for 26th May however agent was not prepared to arrange for two feeds off one dish as part of the install. Said an independant installer may do this for me though. :(

Do it yourself with bits from here: http://www.satalogue.com/ or here
http://www.satcure.co.uk/

OzSat

04-18-2006, 09:58 AM

Booked my install for 26th May however agent was not prepared to arrange for two feeds off one dish as part of the install. Said an independant installer may do this for me though. :(What you are asking for is all the extra work required for a Multiroom sub, but without paying for it.

It is simply to yourself.

eric23

04-18-2006, 12:10 PM

My specific issues are:

(a) I have a non-standard LNB bracket - I have a larger dish, and a weird bracket for my offset 19.2E LNB. So when it comes to replacing the single 28.2E LNB for a quad one, I think he's going to run into a problem of actually fixing it.

(b) I want him to completely disregard all the existing Sky cabling there at the moment - I want this new box to go to a different room, as I'm moving everything into a machine cupboard upstairs.

(c) As well as the two coaxes for SkyHD, I would have liked him to clip up an additional two or three coax cables at the same time (one for a FreeSat box, one for Astra 1 and perhaps another for a future Hotbird LNB). I would have been happy to supply the coax, as I have reels of Webro WF100 sitting around the house from my AV distribution project! My independent installer would have been happy to do this for nothing, I'm sure, since I have put a fair bit of business their way in the past.

(d) I have very thick external walls, and don't have my own drill bit long enough to drill any extra holes myself - it would be a really quick job for somebody who is already up there wielding a drill! And would save me £20 for a drill bit I'll use once.

(e) I'd really just like to use my independent anyway - they've been really helpful in the past, and I'd like to give them the business. I might even be persuaded to spend a bit extra at the same time to put Hotbird in and get a new STB and DiSEcQ controller for my non-Sky services.

OzSat

04-18-2006, 12:32 PM

2b is a standard Multiroom install - but the others I think will all be charged as extras.

Automan

04-18-2006, 01:25 PM

eric23

04-18-2006, 01:43 PM

I don't think it will look £6000 better, Automan! 1080p isn't going to be around for off-air broadcasts for quite some time - mainly due to the ridiculously high bandwidth required. There's no suggestions of 1080p DVD titles being released any time soon. And the games consoles that claim 1080p will be spitting out an upscaled 720p version anyway.

IMO I think you should wait to invest in a 1080p set for a while. By the time 1080p sets are dominating the market, we'll have much better technologies available, at more affordable prices (SED, OLED etc.).

cyril

04-18-2006, 01:45 PM

I see several vendors including Pioneer are offering in the UK Plasma Panels which are really 1920x1080 pixels and of course handle 1080p for HD DVD.

Such a TV is at http://www.avland.co.uk/pioneer/pdp5000ex/pdp5000ex.htm

Will the Sky HD picture look much beeter on one of these compared with a 1024x768 "HD Ready" TV?

Automan.

I'd like to know if the upcoming 1080p panels are going to be that much better compared to a top of range 1080i , as I'm thinking of getting a Fujitsu P63XHa40 and Lumagen or Crystallio II scaler.

sanderton

04-18-2006, 03:57 PM

Little bit early to jump on that bandwagon yet. At CES a number of manufacturers told me thet their BluRay/HD-DVD players wouldn't actually output 1080p yet as the HDMI chipset didn't support the bandwidth required.

Also for 1080i video sources (as opposed to film) you need to watch out for how the panel deinterlaces the signal. Many current TVs do a simple "bob" which lowers the effective resolution to 540 lines.

sjp

04-19-2006, 11:48 AM

<snip>
one for Astra 1 and perhaps another for a future Hotbird LNB).
<bigger snip>
I might even be persuaded to spend a bit extra at the same time to put Hotbird in and get a new STB and DiSEcQ controller for my non-Sky services.

I recently plumbed a "Lemon" 30 quid astra1/hotbird combined monobloc LNB for my MIL. Not much of a name but it more than does the trick, onboard DiSEcQ switch - single cable run.

Looks like it's 34 quid now, check www . creativesatellite . co . uk - if you ask nicely he'll let you pick it up from his place (house) if you're near Bromley, Kent.

cyril

04-19-2006, 12:03 PM

It seems that most 1080p displays have an input for 1080i only!

By the time F1 goes HD :http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=27731 I should have a proper 103" 1080p input panel :)

weeble

04-19-2006, 02:58 PM

There's no suggestions of 1080p DVD titles being released any time soon.

Err, some - if not all - the US HD-DVD titles getting released around now are 1080p according to the specs :cool:

Sad thing is, I don't think any of the players announced can actually output 1080p yet (as sanderton has already pointed out) :confused:

Heuer

04-20-2006, 12:06 AM

I'd like to know if the upcoming 1080p panels are going to be that much better compared to a top of range 1080i , as I'm thinking of getting a Fujitsu P63XHa40 and Lumagen or Crystallio II scaler.

Go for the Lumagen - now way ahead of the Crystallio!

sanderton

04-20-2006, 02:03 PM

eric23

04-20-2006, 02:31 PM

You need to update your signature, Stuart. ;)

Thanks for making me feel luke warm about the 26" LCD I'm about to order ;) (Panasonic TX26LXD60). Will probably get a 42" plasma as soon as the main TV room is finished being renovated (probably the 42" Panasonic in the same range).

The 26" LCD will eventually go above the mantelpiece in the dining room for occasional viewing but will become our main screen temporarily whilst the house is in chaos.

Bakdraft

04-20-2006, 03:50 PM

Hmm... how unfortunate... Despite my TV being only 8 months apart from yours, I do not have those choices on mine. :(

There is a HDMI options setup.. but with not much in it other than colour...

I also have a Pioneer DV868 ( HDMI + Ilink - upscaling to HD) and when this is used I cannot alter screen ratios (other than standard wide and standard full).

I will call Pioneer on Tuesday to see if there is a software update.

Well I got my answer from Pioneer......

Hi,

Thanks for your email.

Regretfully the 5th generation will not allow the change to screen ratio/sizes, but the 6th generation had this as normal. Regretfully the 5th generation cannot be altered/ updated to have this feature.

Regards.
Customer Relations
PIONEER GB LIMITED

I have to say that it's grim that you spend £3,500 on a 5th gen panel only for it to be replaced 8 month later and find out that it cannot support screen re-sizing :mad:

Like Automan... I am concerned....

OzSat

04-20-2006, 10:05 PM

I would have thought that this would have been a standard feature of all tv's for several years now.

chimaera

04-21-2006, 03:41 AM

When I complained that new customers get the option for HD without multiroom on the web site, but existing customers don't, I got this reply:

Thank you for contacting us.

I note your comments regarding the HD service and I must advise that if you only require the HD box this can be purchased without the multiroom option. The purchase price is £299.00 for the box and £60.00 for installation.

Unfortunately there is no option on the website at present that will allow you to select this service without choosing multiroom and I am unable to give a timescale as to when this will be added. To order your HD box please call our dedicated line on 08702 403 240.

We want all our customers to get the best service possible and I’m sorry if you feel let down in this instance. Should you require any further assistance please email the above address.

Great. I already pointed out that life's too short for dealing with their call centre, and that only offering HD with Multiroom is a ripoff since many people don't want Multiroom and certainly won't pay an extra £120 a year for something they don't want, even if that is the only option.

chimaera

04-21-2006, 06:01 AM

Well I gave in and called the number, and ordered HD without Multiroom. It took 20 minutes on the phone at their exorbitabant rates, 15 minutes of which was listening to endless promotional drivel. And of course you have to pay immediately for the box which they are unable to install for 6 weeks. Sky really know how to screw over their customers. I just wish there was a viable alternative, but I don't see one :down:

GarySargent

04-21-2006, 07:06 AM

Actually how are they allowed to do this? I thought distance selling rules stated that they couldn't charge you until the goods had been shipped?

chimaera

04-21-2006, 07:14 AM

Actually how are they allowed to do this? I thought distance selling rules stated that they couldn't charge you until the goods had been shipped?
That's a good question, but I don't think the Distance Selling Regulations cover it. I believe retailers are entitled to charge at point of order if they want to, provided they make that clear. I was also told I would get a free install, even though it's a day after the free installation offer expires, and that I could cancel it after it has been installed, for up to one calendar month, and get a full refund, which exceeds the statutory requirements for a 7 day cooling off period.

Heuer

04-21-2006, 09:43 AM

Just got my new 56-inch HD Sagem set up. Wow. Just, wow. I really can't wait for the 22nd now.

The pic quality from MCE (DTT rendered at 720p by an XBox 360) is just amazing. Blows away the same shows over RGB.

Bizarrely the shows I've converted to WMV from TiVo look better upscaled to 720p over component than the original MPEG-2 does direct from the TiVo over RGB. Go figure.

Time to buy a Lumagen scaler Stuart and you will really see what your screen is capable of!

Give Gordon a call and get the Plasma calibrated at the same time as he demos it for you. www.convergent-av.co.uk

Heuer

04-21-2006, 10:59 AM

Amazon.com are selling the Toshiba HD-A1 HD-DVD players for $500 from the end of April. PJ-Hifi are selling them in the UK for £500 and the HDXA1 for £650 - delivery in a couple of weeks!

Just a heads up for all you HD devotees.
IMG_0465.jpg

04-22-2006, 04:21 AM

It took 20 minutes on the phone at their exorbitabant ratesSo it's you paying for all the glossy brochures they're sending me as a signed-up-as-interested-but-hasn't-ordered-yet customer :D

Heuer

04-23-2006, 11:01 AM

Blu-ray DVD players available for pre-order for Delivery mid August:

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?sssdmh=dm11.84362&ProductSKU=BDPS1&Dept=tvvideo&CategoryName=hav_bluraydiscsub&dcmp=bluray_email&hqs=blurayplayer_preorder

Looks like it is going to be a fully HD world by the Autumn.

eric23

04-24-2006, 02:59 AM

It took 20 minutes on the phone at their exorbitabant ratesSo it's you paying for all the glossy brochures they're sending me as a signed-up-as-interested-but-hasn't-ordered-yet customer :D
NOT FORGETTING the glossy brochures they keep sending me, trying to tempt me to sign up, even though I ordered HD weeks ago...
:o

kitschcamp

04-24-2006, 08:10 AM

You must be getting my share; despite registering interest they've never bothered contacting me further. Just as well I'm not going to get it after all.

OzSat

04-24-2006, 08:49 AM

Great. I already pointed out that life's too short for dealing with their call centre, and that only offering HD with Multiroom is a ripoff since many people don't want Multiroom and certainly won't pay an extra £120 a year for something they don't want, even if that is the only option.I currently have Sky+ and a Multiroom sub on a Digibox for TiVo.

I thought that adding the Sky HD service and retaining to existing setup would be £20pm - but have now been told twice on the 'phone and by two Sky staff by e-mail that:

My extra £10 for Sky HD will include the fact it is an additional box to the two currently in operation - and I will not be charged another £10 for it being a MultiRoom box.

It may be that those with one box and now adding HD pay £20pm, but those already with a MultiRoom sub will not pay another MultiRoom sub.

Fozzie

04-24-2006, 12:44 PM

Something's not right somewhere. The pricing is quite straightforward - multi-room (whatever subscription, HD or just plus) is £10 per month. HD is £10 per month. That's it.

OzSat

04-24-2006, 01:57 PM

That is what I thought - but I have had two telephone confirmations and an e-mail.

I replied to the e-mail to reconfirm I will now have 3 boxes - and the reply was that the pricing was correct and I would only have to be an extra £10 for having HD as an additional box.

The prices were even broke down to items - showing the Sky+ box, HD box and Digibox as three sperate entries.

The Sky+ was the primary box and the sub bit is FOC due to subscription level.

The Digibox was £10 for Multiroom and the additional HD box (with Sky+ enabled) was £10. :confused:

katman

04-24-2006, 02:13 PM

Hi Ozsat,

Are you saying that Multiroom is £10 for the ability to have additional boxes rather than £10 per additional box ?

I currently have SKY+ and my original Digibox on Multiroom and am paying £46 pm. If I were to obtain another Digibox (already have the LNB cabling installed) could I run all three boxes for the same amount ?

cheers

Keith

katman

04-24-2006, 02:18 PM

Bum :(

Just found this on the SKY website....

Can I have Sky digital in more than two rooms?

A standard Sky box works by taking one digital feed from your minidish. This means that one minidish can serve up to two Sky+ boxes or four Sky boxes in your home. You will need a Multiroom subscription for each additional box in the different rooms around your house.

Thought it was too good to be true :(

OzSat

04-24-2006, 03:06 PM

That is how I always understood it - but perhaps they are doing a special deal for HD users?

I am expecting it will be £20 - but I now have two e-mails from Sky confirming it is only £10 in my case.

Bliesner

04-24-2006, 03:07 PM

Apologies if this has already been discussed/answered, but does anyone know if you need two satellite inputs on the new HD box (as you do with Sky+) in order to access the "dual tuner" functonality? Or does HD TV somehow overcome this problem now?

OzSat

04-24-2006, 03:09 PM

Bliesner

04-24-2006, 03:12 PM

Lucky I have a Tivo still then.......

Fozzie

04-24-2006, 03:38 PM

It's two feeds per box (one per tuner). The standard quad LNB will support two boxes (HD &/or Sky+). If you've more than two boxes then you'll need an octo LNB.

Automan

04-24-2006, 03:42 PM

Yes I will need an Octo LNB :)

Automan.

GarySargent

04-25-2006, 03:13 AM

So can I have my normal Sky box as my primary box, and then have a HD box as well for £10/month?! That sounds like what you are saying ozsat but I'm sure my original box is going to stop working when I get HD.

I want them in the same room so Sky's "You will need a Multiroom subscription for each additional box in the different rooms around your house" does not apply :)

eric23

04-25-2006, 03:26 AM

Gary, you can have a new HD box and your existing Sky box - if you pay the extra subscription of course. Your old Sky box will only be cancelled if you have it cancelled!

I'm getting the installer to convert my existing viewing card/box to a FreeSat when he makes the call to Sky to activate the new card for HD. Apparently you have to specifically mention this, otherwise it gets cancelled altogether and you can only watch FTA channels (not FTV as well). That'll save me £20 for a FreeSat card.

If you want Sky subs on both your new HD box AND your old standard box, what you'll pay to have multiroom is anyone's guess! This situation that ozsat has found himself in seems a little bit peculiar - the first time I've heard of it at least.

If I were you, ozsat, if they change their mind and say they got it wrong, I would argue with them until you were blue in the face - you have now got pricing documentation that I imagine forms part of a contract which has already been agreed upon.

GarySargent

04-25-2006, 03:35 AM

Well I just phoned and once I had convinced the guy "yes I do really need the extra box in the same room, and yes I know the Sky+ functionality adds lots of recording functionality and is a "quantum leap" (his words!) etc" then he said yes I need to pay another £10/month to keep the old Sky box with a Sky sub.

He also said I wasn't getting a new viewing card for HD, they would use the existing card in my old box. So beware if you're expecting a new card and using the old one for Freesat!

eric23

04-25-2006, 03:37 AM

I've been told completely the opposite - I will get a new viewing card about a week before the install.

OzSat

04-25-2006, 08:38 AM

I need a new viewing card as I'm getting a new box and not stopping any existing box.

I will then have two Multirooms - as I will have three boxes. This maybe why they say they they are not going to charge yet another Multiroom.

Perhaps some loyalty bonus - but more likely a mistake.

Automan

04-27-2006, 06:44 AM

First, I'm glad to see Gary has taken the leap and will finnaly have the power of Sky+ and in HD :)

A Digitalspy person has spotted an Itilian website with details of Sky HD including a picture of the back (the important bit).

The article is at http://www.avmagazine.it/articoli/sorgenti/70/index.html

Automan.

GarySargent

04-27-2006, 06:50 AM

"power of Sky+" - is that a joke? I hope so!

I'm seriously considering having to pay yet another £10 per month for a normal extra Sky box so I can run it with TiVo still.

OzSat

04-27-2006, 09:40 AM

"power of Sky+" - is that a joke? I hope so!

I'm seriously considering having to pay yet another £10 per month for a normal extra Sky box so I can run it with TiVo still.There was so "considering" for me - it was not optional.

BrianHughes

04-27-2006, 10:30 AM

Automan

04-27-2006, 02:23 PM

All of which at launch do nothing :(

However I will plug in an ethernet cable to see if it dhcp's an IP address

Automan.
Interesting to see that it's got USB, ethernet & SATA connectors.

Heuer

04-28-2006, 04:13 AM

I am losing the will to live ..............

http://www.hdtvuk.tv/2006/04/bbc_launches_hd.html#more

But this looks good:

http://www.humaxdigital.com/global/products/new_leaflet/HDCI-2000_L.pdf

Automan

05-01-2006, 02:10 PM

http://www.home-entertainment.toshiba.co.uk/consumer/products.nsf/pages/lcdplasma-lcdfreeview-42wlt66?opendocument looks of interest but does not list all supported signal modes it will accept.

USA TV's now all seem to say "1080P Ready" rather than our "HD Ready"...

Automan.

healeydave

05-02-2006, 06:51 AM

I was reading an article about Sky HD today and I was suprised at some of Sky's target figures that had been quoted:

"BskyB hopes that 25% of customers will have Multiroom by 2010 and 30% will have Sky+ by 2010. "

The stats didn't stretch to the percentage of customers hoped to be on HD by 2010 though!

On a seperate note, here's a challenge:

Has anyone evaluated what it will cost to be an early adopter of TRUE 1080 High Definition lets say for the first 12 months? (obviously it will get cheaper the longer you keep the same equipment, without changing any components)

e.g.
What price for a TRUE 1080 Display (say 40"+ in size)
What price for the Cabling
What price for the Receiver (e.g. SKYHD set-top-box)
What price for the Subscriptions
Anything else I've missed?

I'm intrigued to know just how much it will cost to experience the best quality TV. Whats worrying is I know a guy who has and install date for HD being quoted for June and the LCD he purchased 18 months+ ago isn't even HD Ready!! He'll probably want to connect it up using the existing scart cables :-)