SkyHD pricing finally announced

[cyril]

Some of you seem to be a tad hung up on resolutions and 1080p etc. Have you actually compared some of the sets and read magazine reviews etc?

The current class leading Plasma TV's are 1024x768 resolution - beating sets with a higher resolution. These figures are not the only thing that counts towards a top notch picture!

Also as soon as 1080p appears on sets en-mass, there will be an 1800p or whatever on the horizon. There is ALWAYS something "better" around the corner!

There are VERY many factors other than resolution -quality of scaling, dynamic range, contrast and black level etc..

However 1080p is the highest format that games, TV and recorded content will be available in for the near future -hence the obsession for a 1080p display.

I'm getting a 720p (with good scaling for 1080i) display now as it's about £5k cheaper than a 1080p 65".

[Heuer]

e.g.

Anything else I've missed?

I'm intrigued to know just how much it will cost to experience the best quality TV.

Yes - a good quality scaler.

[Automan]

Would my 8 Megapixel Canon EOS pictures look better on a 40" 1024x768 plasma panel or a 40" 1920x1080 plasma panel?

Source would either be Pinnacle ShowCenter 200 or XBOX 360 both set to 1080i (no P :) )

Automan.

[GarySargent]

Go ahead and waste your money Automan if you really think more pixels is better.

With a 40inch TV at a normal viewing distance the extra pixel information would not be visible by the human eye.

What might be visible is the poor contrast, black/white levels etc on the 1920x1080 plasma if the panel is not of as good quality as the lower res one.

[Heuer]

Go ahead and waste your money Automan if you really think more pixels is better.

With a 40inch TV at a normal viewing distance the extra pixel information would not be visible by the human eye.

What might be visible is the poor contrast, black/white levels etc on the 1920x1080 plasma if the panel is not of as good quality as the lower res one.

Or correctly calibrated..........................!

[GarySargent]

Thinking about it more a set with a higher res means the pixels are closer together, which means leakage of light from one pixel to the next is even more likely.

There is also a greater chance of dead pixels.

[Automan]

I'll wait till the new year before worrying about another new TV.

Prices should be lower and perhaps the 2nd generation Sky HD box may be out to replace the first dodgy model :)

Automan.

[Automan]

A digitalspy person has found the following that says over 40,000 boxes ordered prior to Sky HD launch.

http://media247.co.uk/skydigital/newsarchive/2006/05/sky_hd_latest_4.php

Thats more than Tivo's total UK customer base....

Automan.

[chimaera]

True, but TiVo was the first PVR to market in the UK, and their promotion of its wide range of benefits was... practically non-existent. Most people had no idea what it did, but many people may well have bought one had they known. In fact, several people I know bought one after seeing mine in action. Nowadays, everyone knows what Sky+ and Freeview hard disc recorders do, so it's much easier. The number of people stuck in the last century timeshifting onto videotapes is shrinking rapidly. Also there would be no point having HD without a hard disc recorder, so it's more about HD than the Sky+ element. I would much rather have an HD satellite box with twin tuners and TiVo software, but it's unlikely to happen in the foreseeable future it seems.

[chimaera]

I'll wait till the new year before worrying about another new TV.

Prices should be lower and perhaps the 2nd generation Sky HD box may be out to replace the first dodgy model :)

Automan.
The first boxes are all made by Thomson, which I'm quite pleased about given my experiences with TiVo and the DHD4000 Freeview DVR. You're welcome to wait for the Amstrad ones if you like, if you think they will be as well engineered as the first boxes. I doubt it :) Also, only the first boxes will have component out, which means wider support for existing panels which don't fit the HD Ready criteria. Initially it was expected that the only HD output would be via HDMI because of HDCP, but it looks as though that isn't the case. Instead, they will just remove those outputs from later boxes so the problem goes away.

[katman]

The first boxes are all made by Thomson, which I'm quite pleased about given my experiences with TiVo and the DHD4000 Freeview DVR.

Although the boxes are made by Thomson it will still be running SKY's software.

My SKY+ is a Thomson box, the actual STB is a nice bit of kit but the software is an absolute crock. The box has ben rebooted at least a dozen times since I got it in November and I realised the other night that it had dropped yet another series link :(

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE will someone release a new PVR that is as good and reliable as my trusty TiVo.

[chimaera]

Although the boxes are made by Thomson it will still be running SKY's software.
Of course, but then so will the later boxes, so it doesn't alter my original point. We would all like TiVo to do something new in the UK market but as time goes on it looks increasingly unlikely.

[Automan]

I don't really mind who makes the second generation Sky HD box (as long it is not Alan Michael Sugar TRADing :) ).

2nd Generation box should be smaller and I would perfer if it was "legacy free" with no RF, Scart or Component Video outputs "Analog Free".

Also not sure about the physical colour of Sky HD V1 - Black :(

Automan.

[sanderton]

I2nd Generation box should be smaller and I would perfer if it was "legacy free" with no RF, Scart or Component Video outputs "Analog Free".


Highly unlikely for many years; too many Sky subscribers use RF etc for distributing signals to a second telly, and there would be no way to permanntly archive shows without an analogue out.

[chimaera]

Highly unlikely for many years; too many Sky subscribers use RF etc for distributing signals to a second telly
True, but they are trying to push Multiroom with HD anyway. If you take this then they relocate your current STB to another room when HD is installed, and charge you yet another £10 a month. You can see why they would prefer this to RF distribution. Of course it's a much better way of doing it, except for the cost. Initially this was the only HD option offered on the website to existing customers, and you had to phone to get a non-Multiroom install. I've heard that may have changed now.

[healeydave]

.........it's more about HD than the Sky+ element.

Absolutely, I know a few people that have signed up for Sky HD and they didn't even know it was a DVR too!!

A lot of business venues are also hoping to get HD installed for the world cup, again its HD they want, not the DVR aspect.

[Gaspode]

A digitalspy person has found the following that says over 40,000 boxes ordered prior to Sky HD launch.

http://media247.co.uk/skydigital/newsarchive/2006/05/sky_hd_latest_4.php

Thats more than Tivo's total UK customer base....

Automan.

I think that figure is now a LOT higher - well over 50K now ...

I was lucky enough (I think) to get into the first round of preorders - My installation date is May 22nd which is the earliest I've heard of (Aside from trialists) . A friend registered Sunday and she has been given an earliest date of July 8th ..

It does mean poor old Tivo may well be retired to Freeview duties - hes now getting on a bit and only one of his scart outputs is still working - he's daisy chained to my HDD/DVD recorder any way ... Plus with the drive crash last week ...

I can't get rid of him completely so i'll put my freeview box on him ;)

[Automan]

http://www.satcure.com/tech/digicode.htm#skyhd seems to indicate the codes used are different.

Still as Gary is getting one on day 1 it should not be a big issue :)

Automan.

[GarySargent]

Another post I've seen elsewhere (info from a beta/trial user apparently) said the codes were the same as Sky+.

As you say, not an issue...

[Bakdraft]

As I don't know that much about Sky+ I am hoping for some advise..

I was thinking that I am not giving up on Tivo.. so can I....

Use Tivo to control Sky HD to record on 1 of its dual recorders.. this would be for general channels

Use the second receiver/recorder to manually record HD channels as and when needed?

This way I don't have to put up with the awful sky epg except for HD programs.

Or am I just deaming.. :confused:

[iankb]

I'm sure that somebody could write a PC program that uses the TivoWeb server to get program and/or schedule details, and then used IR to schedule/control the Sky box, via a remote/video sender if necessary.

[Automan]

Tivo should be able to control Sky HD but the device only has one output stage and no user control on which of the two tuners it uses to record.

The "+" functions of Sky+ get in the way and you are better off without them.

Example
You are watching a recording made by Sky HD (normal or hi-def).

Then Tivo wants to record something.
Tivo will blast the IR and you will then be watching what Tivo wants to record.

I have a mirror sub standard Sky box for Tivo alongside Sky+ (soon to be Sky HD)

Tivo can then record what it wants when it wants.

P.S. Where is channel 145?

Automan.
As I don't know that much about Sky+ I am hoping for some advise..

I was thinking that I am not giving up on Tivo.. so can I....

Use Tivo to control Sky HD to record on 1 of its dual recorders.. this would be for general channels

Use the second receiver/recorder to manually record HD channels as and when needed?

This way I don't have to put up with the awful sky epg except for HD programs.

Or am I just deaming.. :confused:

[Bakdraft]

Tivo should be able to control Sky HD but the device only has one output stage and no user control on which of the two tuners it uses to record.

The "+" functions of Sky+ get in the way and you are better off without them.

Example
You are watching a recording made by Sky HD (normal or hi-def).

Then Tivo wants to record something.
Tivo will blast the IR and you will then be watching what Tivo wants to record.

I have a mirror sub standard Sky box for Tivo alongside Sky+ (soon to be Sky HD)

Tivo can then record what it wants when it wants.

P.S. Where is channel 145?

Automan.

As I do not have or know Sky+ I can only make assumptions...

If you have preprogrammed something to record on Sky+ and it starts to record, but then you want to watch something on another channel, do you simply change channels on the sky+ in the same way as with a normal sky box? If so, then that suits me fine...

I downloaded the Sky+ manual so I am thinking I had better go and read it :eek:

[Automan]

Yes Sky+ or Sky HD+ can record two channels while you are playing back a recording already made or one of the two items its recording time shifted.

Also if in standby and you have a series link for example "The Simpsons" with episodes shown 4 at a time the unit can pad each episode.

e.g.
18:58 start 19:32 end (ep 1) - Tuner #1
19:28 start 20:02 end (ep 2) - Tuner #2
19:58 start 20:32 end (ep 3) - Tuner #1
20:28 start 21:02 end (ep 4) - Tuner #2

Thought Of The Day
Poor hard drive will be pretty busy when recording 2 x HD streams and playing back another :)

Automan.
As I do not have or know Sky+ I can only make assumptions...

If you have preprogrammed something to record on Sky+ and it starts to record, but then you want to watch something on another channel, do you simply change channels on the sky+ in the same way as with a normal sky box? If so, then that suits me fine...

I downloaded the Sky+ manual so I am thinking I had better go and read it :eek:

[Bakdraft]

Hmm......

From reading the guide... It seems to me that a long as I have programmed the program I want to record ( e.g. a HD program) in Sky + search and scan banner, then it doesn't matter what channel I am on or if I switch to another channel, the search & scan program will still be recorded.

If this is the case, then I can carry on using Tivo as always andjust use the Sky HD box to record the 'other' program..

Or have I got it all wrong?? :confused:

[Automan]

I think I understand...
However if you want to playback an HD item recorded by Sky HD at the same time Tivo wants to record you will be in trouble.

When Tivo sends the IR code Sky HD will stop playing back your HD program and switch to playing the channel Tivo wants to record.

Thus I have

LNB -> DIGIBOX -> TIVO -> DVD RECORDRER -> TV AV4

LNBx2 -> SKY+ -> DVD RECORDER -> TV AV1

Soon of course

LNB -> DIGIBOX -> TIVO -> DVD RECORDER -> TV AV4

LNBx2 -> SKY HD -> TV HDMI and DVD RECORDER -> TV AV1

Automan.

[katman]

From reading the guide... It seems to me that a long as I have programmed the program I want to record ( e.g. a HD program) in Sky + search and scan banner, then it doesn't matter what channel I am on or if I switch to another channel, the search & scan program will still be recorded.

If this is the case, then I can carry on using Tivo as always andjust use the Sky HD box to record the 'other' program..

Or have I got it all wrong?? :confused:

You might get away with it provided SKY didnt want to record two consecutive programs on different channels.

eg 104 2100-2200 and 250 2200-2230 whilst Tivo was "watching" something on 520

If you are watching a different channel when SKY+ wants to record two programs (even if they are just overapping because of the padding) it throws up a banner that obliterates most of the screen asking which of the two recordings you want to cancel. If you do nothing it will then change the tuner you are watching to the second recording.

There is probably a way to cancel the banner without losing either of the SKY recordings but I just leave it and let it change having once lost a program I wanted by accidently pressing something on the remote.

Tivo works reliably with a normal SKY box.

SKY+ doesnt work reliably with itself without the added complcation of trying to record on an external piece of kit !!!

[Bakdraft]

I think I understand...
However if you want to playback an HD item recorded by Sky HD at the same time Tivo wants to record you will be in trouble.

When Tivo sends the IR code Sky HD will stop playing back your HD program and switch to playing the channel Tivo wants to record.

Thus I have

LNB -> DIGIBOX -> TIVO -> DVD RECORDRER -> TV AV4

LNBx2 -> SKY+ -> DVD RECORDER -> TV AV1

Soon of course

LNB -> DIGIBOX -> TIVO -> DVD RECORDER -> TV AV4

LNBx2 -> SKY HD -> TV HDMI and DVD RECORDER -> TV AV1

Automan.

The only thing is that to use my old sky box in addition to the HD box, I have to pay more money to sky for 'multiroom' which I really don't need..... I take it I do have to pay extra..

Going back to your explanation, If indeed in the middle of watching a re-recorded HD program Tivo then sends a channel change to record something, AND then the HD box stops showing me my recorded program, surely I can just go back to the Sky+ menu and can carry on from watching the HD program from where it left off?

[katman]

Going back to your explanation, If indeed in the middle of watching a re-recorded HD program Tivo then sends a channel change to record something, AND then the HD box stops showing me my recorded program, surely I can just go back to the Sky+ menu and can carry on from watching the HD program from where it left off?

Yes, but if you do that, TiVo wont record the program you wanted it to record because the HD box will be showing your HD recording not the channel you wanted to TiVo !!

[Bakdraft]

Yes, but if you do that, TiVo wont record the program you wanted it to record because the HD box will be showing your HD recording not the channel you wanted to TiVo !!

Aha! I hadn't thought of that! Still I can still Live with watching the HD another time...

With only 12 days to install I am having to think about these things...

[katman]

Why dont you just record the program on the SKY box in the first place ?

You can record twice as much as you can ever view because it has two tuners but only one MPEG decoder for viewing/playback.

Record 2 progs bacause you are out - 2 recordings to watch

watch one recording whilst recording two others - 3 recordings to watch

watch one recording whilst recording two others - 4 recordings to watch

Worst of all, with only a single box, you lose the ability for any family member to watch live SKY whilst anyone is playing back a recording.

I havent gone for HD yet, I have SKY+ because the subscription is free with my package and I have a multiroom sub for the old SKY box for £10 per month. I also have a FreeToAir satellite receiver bought from Lidl for £35 which can also access some of the channels on Astra.

[Bakdraft]

Why dont you just record the program on the SKY box in the first place ?

You can record twice as much as you can ever view because it has two tuners but only one MPEG decoder for viewing/playback.

Record 2 progs bacause you are out - 2 recordings to watch

watch one recording whilst recording two others - 3 recordings to watch

watch one recording whilst recording two others - 4 recordings to watch

Worst of all, with only a single box, you lose the ability for any family member to watch live SKY whilst anyone is playing back a recording.

I havent gone for HD yet, I have SKY+ because the subscription is free with my package and I have a multiroom sub for the old SKY box for £10 per month. I also have a FreeToAir satellite receiver bought from Lidl for £35 which can also access some of the channels on Astra.

All true and valid points... but failing to mention that rubbish EPG. OK I guess I will give it a try... but I love the Tivo guide much more...

[katman]

All true and valid points... but failing to mention that rubbish EPG. OK I guess I will give it a try... but I love the Tivo guide much more...

OK. you started it :)

The SKY EPG is total **** :(

As if it wasnt bad enough that half the time you have to press "i" to find out the title of the program bacause the 5 or 6 letters you can see arent enough, you will discover that if you do that when two recordings are in progress you get a banner saying "Program Synopsis not available whilst two recordings are in progress" or words to that effect. :(

If you pause live TV so that you are living even slightly in the past, you cant use the EPG unless you cancel pause mode so you will miss what is currently on whilst looking at the guide. It also clears the buffer so you cant rewind afte you have used the EPG.

My personal preference would be for two TiVo's with their own SKY boxes rather than SKY+

What annoys me the most about digital TV is that because Murdock has got satellite well and truely stiched up, even if you own suficient equipment to allow viewing of several channels at the same time, unless you fork out another £10 per month per box you cant watch it. OK so SKY now has 100's of channels but you can still only view one at once without paying time and time again.

Back in the good old analogue days I had a 90cm dish with two dual LNB's pointing at Astra 19o and Eutelsat 13o. I had a global switch and a satellite receiver in each room and I could watch whatever I wanted apart from SKY.

I had a £24 subscription that gave me movies but I rarely watched any as there were programs that we wanted to see on other channels. I tried to get a second card for a nominal fee (sort of like Multiroom is now) but they wouldnt do it so in the end I downgraded my subscription to £12 per month for Multichannels only and took out a second Multichannels sub. I was paying the same as before but now I could receive twice as much but obviously now couldnt get the movies even if I wanted to.

[JeromeO'Donohoe]

you can use search & scan while in pause though, surely?

[eric23]

True, but TiVo was the first PVR to market in the UK, and their promotion of its wide range of benefits was... practically non-existent.
I'd like to slap the person that decided "pause live TV" was the thing to shout about.

[JeromeO'Donohoe]

I don't think so...it's the snappiest description of one of the major features. A bit neater than "records everything you want to watch, automatically, unless you're wanting to see another sky channel" :-)

Pausing live tv is the one feature that makes people like my parents go "Huh? how did you do that?"

[eric23]

How about:

"Run your own television channel"
"Don't be held hostage by the TV schedules"
"All of your favourite programmes, ready to play at the touch of a button"

I hardly ever pause live TV, because, duh I never watch live TV! They should have focused on how TiVo would completely change your relationship with your TV.

I'm sorry, but, you can't debate that they got the marketing completely wrong here in the UK. People understand what Sky+ does, and that's all because of the concise, omni-present marketing. Back in the day when TiVo was being promoted, when I mentioned TiVo to people, most said they had never heard of it but if they had, it would be "something about pausing television" - they didn't really understand how that insignificant little feature (insignificant to the rest of what it can do!) could improve their lives.

[Major dude]

Now the BBC has announced that the World cup & Wimbledon will be available in HD, I was re-evaluating having Sky + with two basic packages and one premier package having paid £299 for the HD box. I read that you can buy the HD box from Sky for £399 without having to subscribe. However this option does not feature on the Sky website.

Does anyone know any more about this?

[6022tivo]

It may of been mentioned before, but take a look at

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/article/ds33072.html


Some pictures of a Nice Sports channel, (nice grass).

Interesting to see the options regarding screen output resolution and a audio delay???

[Heuer]

Disappointment for some and good news for others:

http://ir.telewest.co.uk/phoenix.zhtml?c=76808&p=irol-newsArticle&t=Regular&id=856279&

http://www.itvplc.com/itv/news/releases/pr2006/2006-05-15a/

[cwaring]

Old news now ;)
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4034296&&#post4034296

[Bakdraft]

Having just read on the AVS forum, that someone had phoned up to confirm their installation date and found out their date had been moved.... I thought I had better check mine.

Well... they have moved it. It was 24th May... they have now moved it to 2nd June!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

They also said it had happened today, they sent a letter out today and had credited me with £20 to my account as a goodwill gesture.

They said it would happen to 100's of booked intallations.. :mad:

Lucky I rang up as re-arrnging my holiday is not easy.

As they did not bother to phone up I guess the rest of us unlucky one will only find out when the letter drops on the floor!!!

Well done SKY... it better be worth it... :down:

[6022tivo]

After my Sky+ episode a couple of years ago, I am sticking to my tivo.

I will give Sky HD a go when the price drops a little. I am no longer a Sky customer, but get all sorts of great offers coming through the post. I think offers may start coming Pre Christmas of maybe a box for £199 with a sub. I may be tempted, for the free stuff. But will wait and see for now. I feel that the people getting the unit now are going to be Sky's Beta testers...

Good Luck.

[cwaring]

I feel that the people getting the unit now are going to be Sky's Beta testers...
How odd. Some TVDrive users have said the same thing :p;)

[Bakdraft]

So the consensus of opinion is that SKY only had enough boxes to fulfill day 1 i.e. 22nd... there after .... they ran out... supplier problems.... they say.

The 22nd is the only date where people have not been altered... thereafter it's patchy...

My concern is that they may move me a second time... :eek:

Clearly SKY do not know how to manage a project...

[OzSat]

It is not surprising - but very annoying.

I called them yesterday and spoke to four different people and got four different explanations of my install. It was only the last call where they told me what I wanted to hear.

However, my install date of 23rd May is still unchanged (as of 1.15pm) today.

What is surpising is that it is not one-or-two installs that have been cancelled - but appears to be hundreds! :down:


Having just read on the AVS forum, that someone had phoned up to confirm their installation date and found out their date had been moved.... I thought I had better check mine.

Well... they have moved it. It was 24th May... they have now moved it to 2nd June!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

They also said it had happened today, they sent a letter out today and had credited me with £20 to my account as a goodwill gesture.

They said it would happen to 100's of booked intallations.. :mad:

Lucky I rang up as re-arrnging my holiday is not easy.

As they did not bother to phone up I guess the rest of us unlucky one will only find out when the letter drops on the floor!!!

Well done SKY... it better be worth it... :down:

[AMc]

Not that surprising to me - if they have the initial small order of boxes sitting in their warehouse waiting for installations and the next shipment of many more boxes is delayed then they will have to shuffle everyone back but they can still 'officially' commence installs on the day they said. Looks good to the shareholders...

[Bakdraft]

Not that surprising to me - if they have the initial small order of boxes sitting in their warehouse waiting for installations and the next shipment of many more boxes is delayed then they will have to shuffle everyone back but they can still 'officially' commence installs on the day they said. Looks good to the shareholders...
I think you're dead right about that... so it seems Gary has got my box.... Gary, can I have it back please? :D