Black. White. - Episode #2 (03.15.06) *Spoilers*

[hanumang]

Random thoughts:

Rose is still the best 'character' on this show. I'm not sure I totally understand why she decided shed the makeup, but her experiences (in this episode) are at least somewhat reasonable.

Speaking of reasonable, what, exactly, is the deal with Renee? I know Carmen would grate on my every last nerve - no doubt - but I just don't see Renee even attempting to open a dialogue. Simply dismissing Carmen as a racist (however covert or overt) is a cop-out. Sure, the b---h thing demonstrated just how absurdly ignorant Carmen is, but Renee's attitude is, in my mind, only going to reinforce the silly things that are going on Carmen's head.

And, in terms of what's going on in Carmen's head: dashikis for a black church? I fully understand that trying to be black when - like Bruno and Carmen - you don't have a clue 'what black is' is a Herculean task, but the dashiki thing was just too much. I do sympathize with Carmen though, I think many people totally ignorant of a culture would fall into (the trap of) caricature when emulating another culture. It was wrong of Renee to not say anything during their shopping trip though.

The bar scenes were just too much! I'll actually give a lot of credit to the white dude that Renee encountered. Sure, what he had to say was hard to stomach, but I refuse to believe that was the first time that Renee heard that type of sentiment from a non-black person.

Bruno and Brian at the bar was just too much to deal with. I mean, WTF, does Bruno even go to bars on a regular basis? Who in their right mind drops sociology in a bar conversation? Those folks were way too patient. Brian seems very genuine, though, in his efforts. I admire his patience too, I don't think I could deal with Bruno, who, unlike Carmen, isn't totally ignorant, just stubborn as hell.

One thing that I'm glad they demonstrated: Rose as a not-quite-cool black girl was treated very differently than Rose the white girl. The 'for real' = 'virgo' incident (at Jason's house) had me cringing - I felt so bad for Rose.

One thing, I think, this show will demonstrate - perhaps even more than the divide between black and white - is the weight of 'blackness.' That is, the pressure to conform, especially in 'closed' company; it's huge, far greater than any other (sub)culture that I've had the experience of observing.

The other cringe-inducing moment: why would anyone let Carmen speak when the poetry class came over?!? That's just asking for trouble. Really. I can't really speak on just how much I admire Rose. I mean, if my mom was that embarrassing...

[mmilton80]

Hmmmmm....ya, while I think Carmen is a strange bird, Renee isn't the nicest person either. Poor Rose, she just thought she developed friendships....then BAM....crazy mom.

Poor Nick, last episode he struggled with participating and this week he was a virtual non-entity. Why couldn't they have had him do something better than etiquette class?

[TAsunder]

I really liked this episode, even though I hated everything to do with the mothers and portions of the fathers' story.

Rose's story was just so compelling. Maybe because I love slam poetry so much and was thinking some of the same things she was, that I would be insecure and that the other people were really good. I would never have had the courage to rap, and I would have killed myself in shame when my mother came and insulted everything in a 20 foot radius at the end.

I totally got why she revealed the secret.

I don't like either of the mothers. I like Bruno, though.

I was divided on the church scene. On the one hand, I think I would have a lot of fun as they did. On the other hand, I remember the time I took a girl I was dating to a basketball game. She seemed so phony in rooting heavily for the home team, mostly because she didn't really follow them at all otherwise or full understand the rules. I had the same response to that - it was like she was faking excitement for something. It's a very uncomfortable feeling.

By the way, that wasn't just a bar, that was a wine tasting place, I think? I think Bruno was trying to disarm people to see if they would say something racist by saying something racist himself.

[FireMen2003]

The 'for real' = 'virgo' incident (at Jason's house) had me cringing - I felt so bad for Rose.


Care to elaborate on this one? :confused:

I see Renee side of it too. Carmen has said some outlandish stuff twice to her. Yea, she forgives her but she wont' forget it. Hell, we all like that so I don't see the problem? We will say one thing but on the inside, we are still hurt and/or upset about it.

Bruno is just hilarious. He isn't an racist but just an stubborn old mule who is stuck in his ways.

Carmen. Can someone get this woman a clue, please? Did she really think "Yo, Bitch" was an approrpriate thing to say to another woman? I don't give a damn about how many shows, movies or music or whatever she has seen to reinforence that crazy idea but she can't be serious to think that speaking to another woman who is close in age to her, that calling her a bitch would be okay. Get the hell out of here! :rolleyes:

Rose is the only one getting anything out of this show. I know I wouldn't have tried to rap because you have to have a nice flow..she was just all over the place but she gets A for effort! :p

They did seem kind of fake at church especially when Bruno and Carmen finished and they hugged each other like they were at a concert and gave each other a look like, "Great job, Honey!" It just seemed so forced imho especially on Bruno's part.....you got love him though....

[Tsiehta]

I think this show is very interesting. Unfortunately, the parents are only serving to show just how racist and narrow minded they are (all 4 of them). Fortunately, it is the younger people in this show that are demonstrating the more open minds and cooler heads.

[Tsiehta]

Here is my confusion about the "Yo, Bitch" comment. Wasn't that term on the list provided by Black.White? If so, I would be more inclined to see why Carmen thought it appropriate to try the term "on for size."

[hanumang]

The 'for real' = 'virgo' incident (at Jason's house) had me cringing - I felt so bad for Rose.
Care to elaborate on this one? :confused:

Early in the show (about the 13th minute or so), when Rose (in blackface) was over at Jason's house along with the rest of the poetry class, the dude in the white baseball cap asked her how old she was. She replied that she was going to be 18th next month. During a short back 'n forth ("when" "August" "when's your birthday" "August 22nd"), another dude said "For real?" to which she responded "Yes." When he said "For real?" again, she responded by saying something to the effect of "I'm a Virgo & Leo. I'm on the cusp. Yeah..." then she goes into some quick detail.

This exchange resulted in some nervous laughter from the other cats in the poetry class. Rose heard the second "For real?" to be, I suspect, "Virgo?"

[TAsunder]

Yeah, it was on the piece of paper. But she did run with it a bit. Whatever sympathy she had for that issue dissolved when she spoke after the poetry readings. Almost like she was channeling don rickles.

[gchance]

Why does everyone keep thinking Carmen said "Yo, Bitch" to Renee?

They were going over a pronunciation key, comparing how people say things. There were sample words, and as Carmen was going down the list, she saw the word bitch, and said, "Heh, bitch. BITCH. Yo, bitch!"

She was talking TO HERSELF and for some reason Renee decided it was directed at her. It wasn't directed at ANYONE, she was just saying what she was on the page in different ways, which is what she was trying to explain, multiple times, and just dug the hole deeper as a result. To the point where when she brought it up as an example of something later in the show, the example was taken and run with and she had to say "I don't want to hash that out again".

The church scene, had they established that either family were regular churchgoers? I know neither family live actively Christian lifestyles, but this is an important thing to remember. Where does Brian get off trying to say that Bruno & Carmen weren't sincere? Was he sincere? He was "getting into" the service as well. He wasn't standing up, dancing & clapping, but you know what? Neither were 20% of the congregation; a mere 20%, I might add, Bruno wasn't doing anything others weren't doing.

As a Christian I've been to many churches over the years, some more evangelical than others. If it's a church where standing up, clapping, dancing, whatever, is the norm... I do it too. That's the nice thing about church, you can worship whatever way you want, whether sitting down, standing up; it's however you feel comfortable. Bruno & Carmen looked comfortable. So did Renee & Brian, but they were judging Bruno & Carmen for it.

Then there's the dashiki issue. I look at this similar to a sari. Correct, I would never think to wear one, but if I were made up as an Indian, going to a Sikh temple, of course I would wear one. I would expect to wear one. While blacks don't wear this as normal everyday clothing, I could see Bruno wanting this as an experience.

I still think Bruno & Carmen are out of touch but I also think that Renee & Brian aren't looking at it at all from their point of view. At least with this episode, it was more one-sided against the whites.

Then there's Rose. Sweet Rose! Oh my God. She is just an amazing girl, if I were 17 I think I'd be madly in love, white or black. How she became the person she is with Carmen as a mom and Bruno hanging around I'll never guess. I think that her success is stemming from her insecurities. Bruno & Carmen have become very secure in who they are, while Rose as a young person is by her very nature afraid of what others will think and therefore is trying her hardest to conform. Unlike her parents, she WANTS to be like everyone else. Bruno & Carmen want to be Bruno & Carmen, a white couple, dressed as blacks... that's not going to cut it. Then again, that's the point of the exercise.

I don't think I enjoyed this one as much as the last, but it was still interesting. Rose's reveal to the poetry group had me riveted.

Greg

[Tsiehta]

I think that while this show has promise, it really needs to be differently focused. They could have done a whole episode about Rose's reveal to the poetry group. Instead, they spent more time on the dashiki shopping trip, and they didn't even end up wearing them.

Also, the anger expressed by the gay(?) kid in the poetry class!!! I mean, here is a kid who is probably VERY used to putting on a mask to get by in society. While I would originally think that he would identify with Rose's situation, turns out he was furious. VERY interesting!

[TAsunder]

Not gay, he explicitly stated it.

[hanumang]

Why does everyone keep thinking Carmen said "Yo, Bitch" to Renee?

Other than the fact the segment was edited to show Renee and Carmen making eye contact with each other during their exercises?

Then there's the dashiki issue. I look at this similar to a sari. Correct, I would never think to wear one, but if I were made up as an Indian, going to a Sikh temple, of course I would wear one. I would expect to wear one. While blacks don't wear this as normal everyday clothing, I could see Bruno wanting this as an experience.

Actually, Sikh women don't typically wear saris. Being from Punjab - a cooler, more mountainous region - Sikhs favor the less skin-baring salwar-kameez (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salwar_kameez) over saris (which bares the mid-riff).

Just FYI: this is one of a few elements that Sikhism borrows from Islam. Another is that when at the Gurudwara [Sikh temple] men and women are segregated, sitting in separate sections. Salwar-kameez are suitable here also because women use the dupattas [scarfs] to cover their heads when in temple (saris, by comparision, are never worn with dupattas)

None of this is meant to take anything away from your example, though. I get what you're saying and it is a valid parallel. To a point.

The major issue I see is that Dashikis are African garb and, not open a whole 'nother can of worms, this 'exercise' was about going to a black church.

Interesting that you saw this episode as being biased against the white family. I thought Renee came off worst of all.

[hanumang]

Also, the anger expressed by the gay(?) kid in the poetry class!!! I mean, here is a kid who is probably VERY used to putting on a mask to get by in society. While I would originally think that he would identify with Rose's situation, turns out he was furious. VERY interesting!

Actually, I thought that was his way of gauging if Rose was still BS'ing all of them. After all, she doesn't look white. :)

[FireMen2003]

Gotcha, hanumang. I was wondering where you going with that note. Heck, I assumed what she did...LOL...I think he was trying to found if she was legal to hit it...LOL but she didn't catch on...

[gchance]

Other than the fact the segment was edited to show Renee and Carmen making eye contact with each other during their exercises?

I must have been looking away then, I could have sworn Carmen was looking down at the paper when she said it, then they cut to Renee's pissed-off face, then back to Carmen's surprised face.


Actually, Sikh women don't typically wear saris. Being from Punjab - a cooler, more mountainous region - Sikhs favor the less skin-baring salwar-kameez (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salwar_kameez) over saris (which bares the mid-riff).


I did not know this, I chose the term because of a local store we have where I live, Sari Palace, which in the window has, oddly enough, Saris. I guess I wasn't observant enough and now that I think of it, the mannequins are bearing their midriffs. D'oh!


Just FYI: this is one of a few elements that Sikhism borrows from Islam. Another is that when at the Gurudwara [Sikh temple] men and women are segregated, sitting in separate sections. Salwar-kameez are suitable here also because women use the dupattas [scarfs] to cover their heads when in temple (saris, by comparision, are never worn with dupattas)


Thanks for the heads up. Little bit of background on myself, I lived for 9 years in Live Oak, CA, the rest of the time, in Yuba City, CA... the Sikh population is giant in that area. Growing up, all my best friends were Sikh. Each year Yuba City hosts a Sikh Parade, of which last year was attended by approximately 60,000 people. While all this doesn't necessarily mean I know anything about Sikhs, I do know some. You can't help but learn about the religion by being around it so much. Unfortunately, you also see the racism involved with it... I've touched on the racism I experience a few times before in this thread.


None of this is meant to take anything away from your example, though. I get what you're saying and it is a valid parallel. To a point.

The major issue I see is that Dashikis are African garb and, not open a whole 'nother can of worms, this 'exercise' was about going to a black church.


When I said 'exercise' I was referring to the whole premise of the show, not going to the black church in itself. Yes, wearing the dashikis to church was a bit weird, but them specifically wanting to buy and wear them wasn't.


Interesting that you saw this episode as being biased against the white family. I thought Renee came off worst of all.

I think she came off worse in different ways. I still think she overreacted to the bitch thing, but also think that Carmen shouldn't have said it so loudly. But then again, both families are pretty outgoing with swearing so it shouldn't have been an issue here.

And for the record, Carmen's little black & beautiful speech was retarted. You can see why she's with Bruno here.

Greg

[darthrsg]

to all of the above....
NO comment.

[Synthohol]

if you take into account the sheltered isolated world carmen obviously grew up in, the bitch and beutifull black creature comments are easily dissmissable as naieve foot in mouth comments.
im sure she meant well with the creature comment but it seems the kids were too quick to judge.

as far as the bitch comment, she didnt know any better imho she would likely try to sell screen doors to submarine captains.

my take on racism is that if you look for it, it will find you.
i live in a diverse ethnic town, my kids go to a very ethnicly diverse school (public) and have a very even clique of friends. i raised my kids to believe like i do, if you close your eyes and talk to people or chat with them over the internet, color, race or religeon are irrellivent. so treat everybody as such.

what i dont appreciate are ebonics when your education tought you better.
growing up, my best friend in the world was black, as teens i would see him with other black teens and his language was very ebonic like and he came off extremely less educated than he was. later i asked him why the two faces? (he normally spoke perfect english) he told me that if he didnt talk like a dumb n1993r (his words) to his peeps he would get the crap knocked out of him. to this day i still dont understand. we all went to the same school, had the same education, all of us passed english. WTF??
to me it seemed like giving the pricks prone to racial misguidence something to judge and make fun of and use to support "their" way of thinking.

i was one of 5 jews in junior high out of some 500 students, (1978-1980) i tolerated pennies being thrown at me (brownies make shineys) my face being mashed in dog 5hit on an almost regular schedual, people putting puke in my locker, swastikas drawn on my locker you name it. did i develop a jaded view of the "other" races/colors/religeons? hell no. i learned to run very fast and developed suicidal tendencies instead.

my kids know, if i ever get wind of them using the "n" word or other racial slurs towards or about another human being i will react with irrational disturbing violent behavior and would be best to conduct themselves with the values i have tried to teach them to embrace instead


i didnt mean to go off on a tangent, its just i cant deside if i like or despise this show, it makes me fell embarressed one minute and laugh the next.

[hanumang]

When I said 'exercise' I was referring to the whole premise of the show, not going to the black church in itself.

Just to clear the air about this, I only put the quotes around exercise (in my response to you) because I didn't know what else to call the whole thing of them going to the black church.

I didn't mean for it to come across as adversarial or counter to your manner of using it(in case you took it either way). I actually didn't realized you used the word. Sorry. :o

[hanumang]

I think he was trying to found if she was legal to hit it...LOL but she didn't catch on...

Can't fault a dude for trying, can you? ;)

[justapixel]

I've deleted the show, and can't check, but I think I recall Carmen saying she was having so much fun with the black dialect and really feeling like she was forming a connection with Renee that she decided to "ad-lib" and so she did the "yo bitch" thing. I took from that it was not written on the paper, and she was just trying to be more black by saying that. :rolleyes:

Rose is wonderful, no doubt. I knew as soon as those kids showed up at her door though, that her mother was going to say something stupid and ruin her budding friendships, and that's what happened.

It's too bad they didn't pick people for this show who actually wanted to try and get into and learn from the experience of being a different race. Instead, they picked people who are closed-minded and who seem incapable of overcoming their own perceptions and biases, and who are, IMO, a bit stupid. (With, of course, the exception of Rose)

Of course, some of the problem with this show is the situations they put people in. Putting Rose in a slam-poetry class with all blacks was interesting television, but I don't think it shows us anything about race or the differences in the way the two are treated by society. It might have been more enlightening to just put Rose in a new public high school as a black girl, and see what happened - if she felt she was treated any differently? She's perceptive enough so that I would be interested to see that experience through her eyes.

Other little things:

I LOL'd when Brian said that Carmen might as well dress up as the character on the Aunt Jemima syrup bottle. :) That pretty much sums up Carmen's depth.

Asking anybody in a bar questions about race is going to get some odd responses. That scene with the guy with the long hair took place in the afternoon, and he was pretty clearly drunk by then. I was a bartender for 10 years, and I can assure you that those who are drunk by afternoon typically are not the kind of people who should ask sociological questions of. :) I'd venture a guess and say his opinion might be very different the next morning. In vino veritas is not always the truth. (Of course, no way for us to know.)

Does anybody know where this show is filmed?

[Supfreak26]

I'm digging this show so far. My thoughts...

I'm hoping Rose's revelation means that we won't be spending any more time with the poetry group. Nice group of kids but I hate slam poetry.

Rose's revelation was interesting, however. I was suprised how accepting most of the kids were.

Bruno is the man! Of the four adults, he makes the most sense by far. He got a bit out of hand at the wine-tasting bar but I think it was obvious that he was trying to stir up trouble because Brian was there. Other than that, I think he's making some very valid points about racism to Brian. Too bad they are falling on deaf ears.

Speaking of Brian, he's got that chip on his shoulder that a lot of black people do. Always searching out racism even if it doesn't exist. And it really ticks me off that no matter what Carmen and Bruno do, it's insulting to him and Renee. Bruno and Carmen are ignorant about black culture. No question about it. But they are trying to understand and learn. But that's not good enough for Brian. Or Renee for that matter.

I thought Bruno and Carmen truly enjoyed the black church. Looks like they had a blast in there. What were they supposed to do? Sit in the corner and tremble in fear??

Is the word "bitch" a racist term? According to Renee, it is. :rolleyes:

And how can anyone take what Carmen said at the end of the poetry meeting and a serious insult? It's obvious that she's a nutbag but she's not mean. Just stupid.

And in the end, Renee still can't let the "bitch" incident go despite the many many apologies from Carmen.

LET IT GO, RENEE!!! Sheesh!

No other show gets me more riled up than this one!! :D

[Supfreak26]

what i dont appreciate are ebonics when your education tought you better.
growing up, my best friend in the world was black, as teens i would see him with other black teens and his language was very ebonic like and he came off extremely less educated than he was. later i asked him why the two faces? (he normally spoke perfect english) he told me that if he didnt talk like a dumb n1993r (his words) to his peeps he would get the crap knocked out of him. to this day i still dont understand. we all went to the same school, had the same education, all of us passed english. WTF??


This only reinforces what the long-haired drunk guy in the bar was saying. Educated = sellout.

It's not that black people should have to "act white" to become successful. They just have to play with the same rulebook that everyone else plays with. As a white dude, if I talked like an idiot and didn't get an education, then I'd have troube in this world, too.

It's not about black or white. It's about following the rules of our society.

[hanumang]

Is the word "bitch" a racist term? According to Renee, it is. :rolleyes:

I can't believe I'm about defend Renee but...

Renee felt - very correctly - that Carmen would not speak to her (white) friends that way. So why would Carmen talk to her that way?

Sure, the argument is that Carmen is ignorant as hell, but isn't that the source of most racism?

[Supfreak26]

I can't believe I'm about defend Renee but...

Renee felt - very correctly - that Carmen would not speak to her (white) friends that way. So why would Carmen talk to her that way?

Sure, the argument is that Carmen is ignorant as hell, but isn't that the source of most racism?


Ignorance does not equal racism, though. IMO, hate is the driving force of racism and Carmen doesn't have a hating bone in her body.

I see your point with the white friends comment. But I still can't see how Renee can be so upset when it's painfully obvious that Carmen is a frakin' idiot. She should be educating this poor girl and just laugh off her mistakes since she is obviously not being malicious. She's just stupid!

[FireMen2003]

I don't think Renee considered it racist. She just considered Carmen to be an igorant woman to even believe that "Yo, Bitch" was an apparant thing to say to another woman.


Speaking of Brian, he's got that chip on his shoulder that a lot of black people do. Always searching out racism even if it doesn't exist.

Oh, give me a break. He discussed the things in his life where he has been tried racist or seen racist. He wasn't searching out for anything but trying to show Bruno stuff he has experienced where racism has occured.


This only reinforces what the long-haired drunk guy in the bar was saying. Educated = sellout.

I always hear white people say this and it is just hilarious to me. It has nothing to do with being educated. The whole time during high school, I never once heard any black kids who were high achievers called sellouts. Give me a break. That doesn't happen in real life. It's not being educated but "speaking white" like Synthohol discussed.


But I still can't see how Renee can be so upset when it's painfully obvious that Carmen is a frakin' idiot.

Maybe she is upset that she is too old to be such an freakin idiot.........

[Havana Brown]

I find it funny when Brian and Bruno go out. They look like two light skinned black men to me. I also think that the way that Brian speaks is not your "typical" black. He seems to be educated and knows that when he's going for a job interview and out in the corporate world he puts on his "white voice." Renee on the other hand, to me, IS the typical black woman. I expected her to start swinging her head from left to right and put up her finger and do the no, she di'int hand sign.

I thought it was hillarious when Jonathan came up to the door and introduce himself to Rose. He did not recognize her at all.

As for the church scene, I thought Bruno and Carmen weren't being fake about it. I could see how if someone is used to going to a church where it's usually boring and being thrown in to a place with fun music it would get them up like that.

[Tsiehta]

I also think that the way that Brian speaks is not your "typical" black. He seems to be educated and knows that when he's going for a job interview and out in the corporate world he puts on his "white voice." Renee on the other hand, to me, IS the typical black woman. I expected her to start swinging her head from left to right and put up her finger and do the no, she di'int hand sign.

I think what's important here (and what Black.White. might be showing us) is that it really is YOUR perception of "typical" black. Reading your sentence, you seem to be saying that "typical" blacks are uneducated.

[FireMen2003]

As for the church scene, I thought Bruno and Carmen weren't being fake about it.

It just looked fake especially the end when Bruno & Carmen were hugging like they just finished a rock concert or something. Great job on the floor, honey!

Their clapping should have blown their cover imho..LOL...

[Synthohol]

It just looked fake especially the end when Bruno & Carmen were hugging like they just finished a rock concert or something
those two having never experiencing that id like to think they just have a close relationship and the hugging was just something they shared having really enjoying themselves. heck, i hug my wife after a good movie we watch together.

id also like to point out that i dont think speaking using proper "kings" english is talking "white". there is no color in the english language. there is a book we all used in america for english class in school. its called the dictionary, fwiw, english is comprised of many adaptations of words of several different languages with very specific pronunciations and examples of proper diction. this is neither white or black or grey or yellow, its just the way it is.

so i dont buy that speaking intelligently is "talking white" give me a break!

[Supfreak26]

I don't think Renee considered it racist. She just considered Carmen to be an igorant woman to even believe that "Yo, Bitch" was an apparant thing to say to another woman.


Then why did she say she didn't believe Carmen would talk that way to a white woman? Renee totally took it as a racist remark.



Oh, give me a break. He discussed the things in his life where he has been tried racist or seen racist. He wasn't searching out for anything but trying to show Bruno stuff he has experienced where racism has occured.

Apparently you forgot last episode where the family moved out of their way on the sidewalk and Brian claimed they were somehow being racist. Or how Brian thought the salesman in the store was trying to keep a close eye on them because they were black even though he was clearly just trying to do his job and assist them.

The world is changing for the better for all races yet people like Brian will never notice because they are too busy looking for racism that doesn't exist.


I always hear white people say this and it is just hilarious to me. It has nothing to do with being educated. The whole time during high school, I never once heard any black kids who were high achievers called sellouts. Give me a break. That doesn't happen in real life. It's not being educated but "speaking white" like Synthohol discussed.

Did you not see the quote that I was responding too? That's a real-life example that this DOES happen. Just because it didn't happen in your school, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I have personally heard similar stories from black people in the past.

And "speaking white" is just speaking proper english. That's why we take all those english classes in school. If you can't speak properly, then you won't go far in this world. Ebonics and other slang won't cut it.



Maybe she is upset that she is too old to be such an freakin idiot.........

No argument there. But that's still no reason to get that upset over it. Just roll your eyes, explain to her why she's wrong, help her understand, and move on. Carmen seems eager to learn. As ignorant as she is, she doesn't deserve to be attacked like that.

[justapixel]

I agree with everybody on the Carmen/Renee issue.

Carmen was very ignorant for thinking that saying "yo bitch" to Renee was a part of black culture. Renee is being way over-sensitive by not understanding the explanation, and by continually bringing it up and using that as the reason she won't forgive Carmen.

And, therein lies the problem with the show - they picked the wrong people to be in these roles. Stubborn, ignorant and closed-minded people.

It would have been far more interesting to have people willing to learn about the differences between the cultures, and understanding of the fact that there will be mistakes and to learn from them.

I don't see that here. It's being done more like any other reality show - with introduced conflict, rather than the interesting and enlightening documentary show it could have been.

[bruinfan]

Ignorance does not equal racism, though. IMO, hate is the driving force of racism and Carmen doesn't have a hating bone in her body.


FALSE.
Hate is ONE manifestation of racism. As I argued in last week's thread, everyone is racist. Racism is merely your perception of your culture and how you relate to other cultures. Being proud of your race is racism, and most people would agree there is nothing wrong with that. There are schools across the country, universities at least, that encourage cultural awareness with clubs such as (fill in the blank)-American Associations. This is a form of racism. Ignorance in other cultures can cause you to be perceived as "racist". And ignorance to other cultures probably solidifies your roots in your own race. What actions or words you use to confront other cultures is another story... hate, stay ignorant, be tolerant, or learn and assimilate...

The guy in the bar was ignorant as hell. He didn't seem hateful. But his perceptions and beliefs is his reality, and alot of that is based on ignorance. And that may lead him to talk down about blacks, which may be hateful, or may be his "honest" point of view, his perception.

Bruno is the man! Of the four adults, he makes the most sense by far. He got a bit out of hand at the wine-tasting bar but I think it was obvious that he was trying to stir up trouble because Brian was there. Other than that, I think he's making some very valid points about racism to Brian. Too bad they are falling on deaf ears.

Speaking of Brian, he's got that chip on his shoulder that a lot of black people do. Always searching out racism even if it doesn't exist. And it really ticks me off that no matter what Carmen and Bruno do, it's insulting to him and Renee. Bruno and Carmen are ignorant about black culture. No question about it. But they are trying to understand and learn. But that's not good enough for Brian. Or Renee for that matter.
Sorry, man, but that is such a "white" point of view. Bruno is an idiot. It's a combo of ignorance and stubborness, but he keeps saying Brian is "looking for racism that isn't there". And supfreak is echoing that... and I think, if you are white, you have no right to question any black person's perceptions. Because you don't have the same life experiences as they do.
The whole church thing was retarded... Bruno was "having fun". As Brian put it, those people in the congregation were moved by whatever religion, and Bruno was almost mocking them. I know he wasn't really, but there is a difference btwn what bruno thought he was doing, and Brian's perception.

[FireMen2003]

Apparently you forgot last episode where the family moved out of their way on the sidewalk and Brian claimed they were somehow being racist. Or how Brian thought the salesman in the store was trying to keep a close eye on them because they were black even though he was clearly just trying to do his job and assist them.

The world is changing for the better for all races yet people like Brian will never notice because they are too busy looking for racism that doesn't exist.


You might take it as racism but if it has happened to you on numerous occasions, why would you believe differently? Brian is used to be followed in stores, this one time, he might have been wrong but sure as hell doesn't change his perception on it, if it continues to happen to him. Same as the people moving over on the sidewalk. Reminds me of the middle age white ladies who when they see you walking towards them, they grab their purse :rolleyes: :o.

Carmen was very ignorant for thinking that saying "yo bitch" to Renee was a part of black culture. Renee is being way over-sensitive by not understanding the explanation, and by continually bringing it up and using that as the reason she won't forgive Carmen.


I don't see it that way. I just see Renee as acting like a typical human being. Someone says something that hurt or offended and you might forgive them but you always remember me and sometimes, you just look at them different from that point on cause you just didn't expect that from them.

[IndyTom]

My take on the "Yo Bitch" part:

Unfortunately for me, my wife Tivo's Oprah. Oprah had both families on to discuss this show.

They showed the clip of Carmen saying "Yo Bitch", and Renee's subsequent reaction. Tempers flew a little on Oprah, but Oprah came to Carmen's defense.

Oprah defended Carmen by reminding Renee that "black people do it to themselves" in pop culture (movies, music video's, TV shows, etc..). She went on to say that she "couldn't blame" other races for thinking all black people talk that way because it's always in our face everyday on TV and on the radio. Oprah argued that if black people are talking down to fellow black people what else are others supposed to think than it's ok to do the same?

For the very same reasons is why I don't blame Carmen at all for her ignorance. Unfortunately, Renee didn't take this as an opportunity to tell Carmen something like: "Carmen, I am well aware that many blacks on TV and radio talk this way and give the false impression that we all talk this way - however, most don't".

Instead Renee stuck with her tunnel vision.

[bruinfan]

Oprah defended Carmen by reminding Renee that "black people do it to themselves" in pop culture (movies, music video's, TV shows, etc..). She went on to say that she "couldn't blame" other races for thinking all black people talk that way because it's always in our face everyday on TV and on the radio. Oprah argued that if black people are talking down to fellow black people what else are others supposed to think than it's ok to do the same?

For the very same reasons is why I don't blame Carmen at all for her ignorance. Unfortunately, Renee didn't take this as an opportunity to tell Carmen something like: "Carmen, I am well aware that many blacks on TV and radio talk this way and give the false impression that we all talk this way - however, most don't".

Instead Renee stuck with her tunnel vision.

I agree.

This will especially be interesting when Renee calls her son "negro" in a derrogatory way in next week's episode. And they flash to a look on Carmen's face that said, "Wait a minute hypocrite". At least that's how the preview teased it.

[FireMen2003]

Oprah defended Carmen by reminding Renee that "black people do it to themselves" in pop culture (movies, music video's, TV shows, etc..).

Maybe with the N word but bitch? Give me a break. I've never heard "Yo Bitch" used in a good way. Its always in a derogatory manner so thats just a copout IMHO.

[bruinfan]

Bruno and Brian at the bar was just too much to deal with. I mean, WTF, does Bruno even go to bars on a regular basis? Who in their right mind drops sociology in a bar conversation? Those folks were way too patient. Brian seems very genuine, though, in his efforts. I admire his patience too, I don't think I could deal with Bruno, who, unlike Carmen, isn't totally ignorant, just stubborn as hell.
Don't you think if some random dude comes in and starts firing race-issue questions at you, that would raise all sorts of red flags in your head? Most level headed people would go into PC mode. The long hair dude was just wasted. But anyone who has a head on their shoulders is going to "say the right thing". At least to strangers. I don't think Bruno proved anything with his tactics. The way Brian approached the guy last week at the bar was much more effective... he got the guy to put his guard down and speak more openly.

Does anybody know where this show is filmed?
This is filmed in the Greater LA area and outlying suburbs. Not sure where the house is, but they are putting quite a few miles in their locations. La Crescenta, where Brian works, is about 25 miles from Culver City, where Rose met the poetry people at the mall... most of the day, that's like 30-40 minutes in traffic.

Let's see...
The poetry sessions are in South-Central or somewhere nearby.
The mall was in Culver City, which is just north of LAX. LAX, Inglewood, Westchester... Predominantly black. Culver City(which is wierd, south CC is more black, and the more north you go, the more white it gets. Northern CC is more white, but it's a decent mix of diversity) is north adjacent to Westchester. The mall is predominantly black patrons... they even have a daishiki/african culture store.
The house Rose went to in Baldwin Hills, just northeast of Westchester, North of Inglewood. Not a poor area, very nice homes, predominantly black. The further south you go, the poorer and blacker it gets.
La Crescenta is as white as it gets. A decent amt of Asians, but very few blacks. It's Pasadena adjacent, which is more of a mix, but predominantly white. La Crescenta.. avg home is probably 2 mil. Culver City... 600K, Baldwin Hills... 500K, Inglewood... 300K, SAnta Monica, where the white family lives... 2mil... but that's because it's next to the ocean. You can't get a tiny 1 bedroom condo fixerupper for under 500K.


Looking at the website for the show... pretty awesome site. I love the theme song by Ice Cube. They also have a link to the show's myspace page, and they have discussion going on about the show... a much more racially diverse group. Check it out. Read the "Black Point of View". Alot of it is different from what's on this board. You really want to learn about the other race, browse the myspace page. Not saying anyone is wrong or right.... Perceptions, perceptions, perceptions.

blackwhite home page (http://www.fxnetworks.com/shows/originals/blackwhite/index_2.php)

[bruinfan]

One more thing... saw this on the myspace site...
You want Bruno to experience racism, have him try to rent an apt in a white neighborhood. Then after he gets no response, have him go as white bruno... That would be good.

There was a radio commercial, some racial awareness group, they answered an ad for apt for rent. They used different accents.. black, indian, latino... "sorry, apt given away". When they called as White Man, "sure, no problem, when do you want to look at it"

[hanumang]

Don't you think if some random dude comes in and starts firing race-issue questions at you, that would raise all sorts of red flags in your head? Most level headed people would go into PC mode. The long hair dude was just wasted. But anyone who has a head on their shoulders is going to "say the right thing". At least to strangers. I don't think Bruno proved anything with his tactics. The way Brian approached the guy last week at the bar was much more effective... he got the guy to put his guard down and speak more openly.

Why did you quote me and then go on this little diatribe? Was what you said really all that different from what I was insinuating?

[hanumang]

Maybe with the N word but bitch? Give me a break. I've never heard "Yo Bitch" used in a good way. Its always in a derogatory manner so thats just a copout IMHO.

I think the 'issue' (at least as I imagine Oprah was thinking) is that many folks who don't associate with black folks on a regular basis are under the impression (for whatever reasons) that what is otherwise derogatory (the use of swear words, in particular) in mixed company, is less so in all-black company. This is, obviously, especially true for those as ignorant as Carmen. (Though I know for those not quite as ignorant, it's a huge leap.)

[hanumang]

And, therein lies the problem with the show - they picked the wrong people to be in these roles. Stubborn, ignorant and closed-minded people.

It would have been far more interesting to have people willing to learn about the differences between the cultures, and understanding of the fact that there will be mistakes and to learn from them.

Interesting, I'm actually on the opposite side of the fence. I think all 4 adults are actually pretty common archetypes (with Carmen being the most out there, but she certainly demonstrates that ignorance exists). So, in my mind, I think the casting is pretty good.

And I say that because I find that the topic of race always brings out ugliness. If the show was harmonious, I'd be in danger of dismissing it as too utopian.

But that's not to say that there couldn't have been a middle ground in the casting choices (in case that was what you were getting at and I just totally missed it :))

Which actually brings me to another point. What do you folks think this show is really about?

Personally, I don't think it's as much about racism as we might have been led to believe prior to the premiere. I actually think it's more about ethnocentrism from both sides.

[Synthohol]

And "speaking white" is just speaking proper english. That's why we take all those english classes in school. If you can't speak properly, then you won't go far in this world. Ebonics and other slang won't cut it.
Thank you for not making me feel alone.

[Synthohol]

Which actually brings me to another point. What do you folks think this show is really about?
i think its just another "MTV" reality show to bring in ratings.
unfortunatly i see the show as entertainment value only. if it had a chance of reducing racizm i would sponsor it myself...

[bruinfan]

Why did you quote me and then go on this little diatribe? Was what you said really all that different from what I was insinuating?
I was trying to point out that the people he was talking to were not being merely patient. They probably had a red flag go off in their head, and they may have been thinking "better be PC, better be PC". Kind of agreeing with, and expanding on your quote. People will think one thing and say another when situations dictate, especially when it comes to race and stereotypes.

Which actually brings me to another point. What do you folks think this show is really about?
i think its just another "MTV" reality show to bring in ratings.
unfortunatly i see the show as entertainment value only. if it had a chance of reducing racizm i would sponsor it myself...
I think it's a genuine attempt at exploring what the differences are btwn black and white people and how they think, and to use these two families as examples. If they can learn from each other, and be able to better relate to each other, then the audience will have learned from them as well. Whether they succeed or not, or if there is a more ideal way to do it is a different story and time will tell.

I personally enjoy the show very much.

[hanumang]

I was trying to point out that the people he was talking to were not being merely patient. They probably had a red flag go off in their head, and they may have been thinking "better be PC, better be PC". Kind of agreeing with, and expanding on your quote. People will think one thing and say another when situations dictate, especially when it comes to race and stereotypes.

Yeah, agreed - which is why I wondered why Bruno could even think that scenario would present 'the honest truth.' I suppose I chose 'patience' when talking about about the bar (or wine tasting patrons) because, if I were in that scenario, I'd grab my drink and find another spot at the bar. But, then again, maybe I'm just rude. ;)

And, for what it's worth, in re-rereading my reply to you, I want to apologize - I feel like I came off as rude and adversarial - I just totally couldn't see where you were coming from. My bad. :o

[bruinfan]

no worries... :cool:

[newsposter]

Firstly BOTH families must die for parking in a handicapped parking spot!!!! Now that that’s over…..

Why is it wrong for someone who moves into a neighborhood to be expected to conform to that neighborhood? I think that’s a perfectly reasonable expectation regardless of race yet she made it into a bad thing. I wonder if a white person moved into Mrs. Black’s neighborhood if she would expect them to conform to their practices or not. To me, when you are in Rome you DO as the romans do. If everyone puts their trash cans in the back and doesn’t leave sofas on the front porch, you don’t either. What’s wrong with wanting people to conform????

I think they are just showing more segregation by taking Mrs. White into the African clothing store area and making her 'dress black' just to go to church. is that really necessary? I’m definitely no expert on women’s fashion but have been shopping with my wife. I notice black women in all the stores she shops in but while I’ve never been in the African store, I’m betting white women don’t go in there as much, if at all. I’d like to know if there are ‘white’ woman clothing stores that a black would wouldn’t ever go in? See, I just don’t think of any clothing store as ‘white’ while I definitely have seen ‘black’ clothing stores. Is that just my perception or is it reality?

In ‘sort of’ defense of the white mom: I’m betting she’s only seen black people on tv and the media definitely portrays and enforces stereotypes of blacks’ language, mannerisms, music likes etc. So one can only expect her to parrot what she’s been show in the ‘mainstream’ as being a black woman. It’s not an excuse, it’s a reason. I wonder if Mrs. White would have said something like ‘hey girlfrieeeend’ to her (or something else she saw on tv) if she would have been just as pissed as the bitch comment? And I find it hard to believe all races don’t have their own ‘pet terms’ they call each other. So what’s the biggie? Actually aren’t more whites doing rap and other traditional ‘black’ stuff like that? So I wonder if that makes Mrs Black happy that we are conforming to her or not?

Another question about the churches: While I did see at least one white woman in their church, I’m betting there are more black people in ‘white’ churches than white people in black churches and maybe it’s my own stereotyping but I think a black person walking in a white church wouldn’t cause much reaction while a white person going into some black churches would likely draw stares. Has anyone done this and seen the reaction?

To be equal I think they should have put the black kid in a white poetry class. You simply cant make valid comparisons unless the parameters are similar. And put dear old Mr White into a black bar in a predominantly black part of LA. That’s the kind of stuff I want to see.

And lastly, not sure if this has been covered before but I don’t consider bruno white as he clearly isn’t white!. Unless that’s a tan of course.

[EchoBravo]

Firstly BOTH families must die for parking in a handicapped parking spot!I thought it an odd choice that they showed that.

Why is it wrong for someone who moves into a neighborhood to be expected to conform to that neighborhood? I think that’s a perfectly reasonable expectation... <snip> To me, when you are in Rome you DO as the romans do. If everyone puts their trash cans in the back and doesn’t leave sofas on the front porch, you don’t either. What’s wrong with wanting people to conform?I couldn't possibly agree more, but this isn't just a "Mrs. Black moving into "Mrs. White's" neighborhood issue. Other examples: Someone moving into an HOA-governed community, then suing b/c they're not allowed to paint their house fuscia or erect a wrought iron fence. Or how about new immigrants who want only to associate with their own, keeping their own language and culture here in the U.S.?

One might say "If your own language and culture is so great, why don't you stay where you were?" The flipside of that is that this (the U.S.) is supposed to be the land of freedom. They should be free to do as they please without repercussion. Seems lately though, those who espouse such freedoms want it only for those who look/walk/talk and agree with them.

Just talkin' folks. Just thinkin' out loud.

I’m definitely no expert on women’s fashion but have been shopping with my wife. I notice black women in all the stores she shops in but while I’ve never been in the African store, I’m betting white women don’t go in there as much, if at all. <snip> Is that just my perception or is it reality?Black women are in the stores your wife frequents b/c they're buying today's prevailing fashions. Trailer parks and ghettos aside, in the great middle, we all pretty much dress the same. I'm sure a black girl could shop at Hot Topic without any trouble, just as a white woman could go into a store selling only African garb. They don't b/c they choose not to. Additionally, to have any kind of mainstream job, a black woman has to wear a business suit or other standard white collar uniform. There's no situation which would require a white woman to dress in so-called "black" clothes.

In ‘sort of’ defense of the white mom: I’m betting she’s only seen black people on tv and the media definitely portrays and enforces stereotypes of blacks’ language, mannerisms, music likes etc. So one can only expect her to parrot what she’s been show in the ‘mainstream’ as being a black woman.I agree, but it does show ignorance. I mean, these days, who doesn't know that what you see in the media is 99% bull*****?

I think a black person walking in a white church wouldn’t cause much reaction while a white person going into some black churches would likely draw stares. Has anyone done this and seen the reaction?Since you asked, your assumption is wrong. It works the same both ways. If you're the only bass in a pond full of carp, you're gonna get stared at. And I've been on both sides of it. I don't think it's out of malice as much as it's genuine curiosity. The person staring is likely just wondering "what's up with them?"

[newsposter]

I thought Mrs Black said something to the effect that if she moved into a white neighborhood, she would have to conform to the "white standards" there and always had to 'adjust to the white man" (my words as i forget hers).

First off, i truly have no idea what she meant, I admit it. Assuming the neighborhood was in an objectively decent state, why did it matter if it just so happened all whites lived there? And what is wrong with blending in like that? I hate to put words into her mouth but it almost seemed like she was saying she wanted to move into a neighborhood and have everyone change to HER way and not live by the standards already present there.

Doesn't make sense does it? Well I cant understand her statement. Anyone know what she meant by conforming to the white neighborhood? What do blacks do with their neighborhoods that whites dont? I dont get it.

[newsposter]

I agree, but it does show ignorance. I mean, these days, who doesn't know that what you see in the media is 99% bull*****?

"

Then why does the black culture, who presumably doesnt like these stereotypes, protest to the media to stop portraying them in the stereotypical rappers with foul mouthed songs, involved in gang wars and every young black kid is in a gang, driving blinged out cars and wearing gold chains while making music videos with scantily clad women moving in certain stereotypical ways? That's what I see on tv and on the movies. I'm not stupid enough to think all people are like that, but when you see something often enough, and have no other input, you literally have no other points of reference to draw from.

[hanumang]

What’s wrong with wanting people to conform????

I think the key distinction is the degree to which people are asked to do so, and how much of it is felt to be genuinely necessary.

And with 'blackness' being such a unique issue in American society - not the same as immigrant assimilation - it only leads to more awkwardness and/or resentment.

(As I've stated a few posts earlier, I feel this show is essentially about ethnocentrism, and so much more could be said, but I just don't have time)

I think they are just showing more segregation by taking Mrs. White into the African clothing store area and making her 'dress black' just to go to church. is that really necessary?

Actually, I perceived it as setup to be more of a shopping trip because 'we're going to church' that spiraled out of control. I'm almost certain that Dashikis come into play only after Carmen stumbled upon the store. Renee did not suggest that (or take them their initially).

To be equal I think they should have put the black kid in a white poetry class.

I believe they placed Rose in the SLAM class because she a poet (or a least a writer) herself. Otherwise, it just seems like too much of a leap to take anyone who isn't a writer (or poet) and drop them into a class like that.

[Turtleboy]

I wonder how much of the behavior are them being told to do things by the producers, and not their natural character.

[hanumang]

I thought Mrs Black said something to the effect that if she moved into a white neighborhood, she would have to conform to the "white standards" there and always had to 'adjust to the white man" (my words as i forget hers).

Actually that was Brian (aka Mr Black) who said that when black folks 'do anything of importance' or 'get ready to go on an interview,' they put on their 'white voice.'

[Turtleboy]

I've been thinking, and this is a carry over from the previous episode's thread.

Could this show only work with a black and white family? Would it work, or be interesting to watch with an Asian and Hispanic family switching places?

I don't think a white family switching with anything else with a black family would work at all. (White and Asian switching places? Not that big of a deal).

But I think a black family switching places with another non-white race would be fascinating.

[hanumang]

Then why does the black culture, who presumably doesnt like these stereotypes, protest to the media to stop portraying them in the stereotypical rappers with foul mouthed songs, involved in gang wars and every young black kid is in a gang, driving blinged out cars and wearing gold chains while making music videos with scantily clad women moving in certain stereotypical ways? That's what I see on tv and on the movies.

First off, I'm taking your statement to be 'why doesn't the black culture protest,' so correct me if I'm wrong in seeing a typo there. :)

There are black folks who lament/criticize their portrayal in the media.

I remember a very telling interview with Charles S. Dutton (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001165/maindetails), just prior to Menace II Society (1993) (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107554/maindetails) being released, where he talked about how he felt Hollywood only cared about black life being portrayed as negative (something satirized in Hollywood Shuffle (1987) (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093200/maindetails), btw) because it guaranteed business, where as more positive portrayals always flopped at the box office. The quote I remember was, "If the movie was called 'Contributor II Society' it would not have found funding in Hollywood." He went on to say, though, that he felt the ultimate message of Menace II Society was a good one, so he accepted a small role in the movie.

However, things are changing. Soul Food (1997) (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120169/maindetails) was hailed by many - who follow these things, at least - as the turning point in modern black cinema because it was not a 'hood flick' yet it found funding in Hollywood and (moderate) success at the box office. That has since led to more black-centric flicks that are not hood flicks per se (Barbershop, The Best Man, The Wood, Brown Sugar, Drumline, etc) but they don't seem to cross over or catch the attention of mainstream media as well as gangsta flicks do.

The rap game is no different in that regard. (would share more, but I gotta run)

[Turtleboy]

I liked the Boondocks's cartoon take on "Soul Food."

"After Big Mamma died, they went and ate the same food that killed her!"

[newsposter]

sorry if i confuse anyone, since i'm bad with names, i've called Rocco Mr white and then the others like his wife Mrs White etc. I think most of you picked up on it but just wanna make sure :)

[hanumang]

But I think a black family switching places with another non-white race would be fascinating.

Agreed. As I mentioned in my opening post, I think this show will demonstrate what I call the 'weight of blackness.'

Just look how differently Rose was treated by her SLAM classmates when she was in black makeup in comparison to her without the makeup when only thing that changed was the perception of her race. (at least, that was the only thing that I perceived as changing)

Now, there is a universal pressure for all of us to 'fit in' in any new social setting, but I think, due to all the unique factors that have gone into creating 'black people' in America, it - what it means to be 'black' - has a unique power both within and outside the black community.

[mmilton80]

I've been thinking, and this is a carry over from the previous episode's thread.

Could this show only work with a black and white family? Would it work, or be interesting to watch with an Asian and Hispanic family switching places?

I don't think a white family switching with anything else with a black family would work at all. (White and Asian switching places? Not that big of a deal).

But I think a black family switching places with another non-white race would be fascinating.


I'm waiting for the "Arab. White." season. Also, the "Young. Old." season would be neat, because old people don't like young people.

[bruinfan]

I've been thinking, and this is a carry over from the previous episode's thread.

Could this show only work with a black and white family? Would it work, or be interesting to watch with an Asian and Hispanic family switching places?

I don't think a white family switching with anything else with a black family would work at all. (White and Asian switching places? Not that big of a deal).

But I think a black family switching places with another non-white race would be fascinating.
There is already a show like that...it's called Wife Swap...

But if they wanted to explore race, I don't think anything else would work. Maybe Black/Korean. Or how about Black/LAPD?


Originally Posted by newsposter
I thought Mrs Black said something to the effect that if she moved into a white neighborhood, she would have to conform to the "white standards" there and always had to 'adjust to the white man" (my words as i forget hers).

Actually that was Brian (aka Mr Black) who said that when black folks 'do anything of importance' or 'get ready to go on an interview,' they put on their 'white voice.'
Yeah, I don't think it was so much they had to conform to the neighborhood. It was more the whites were making a big deal about nonwhites infiltrating. Where they have to conform is in the business world, in order to have a chance to succeed at anything. On the one hand, I would think most Black people would understand that 1st impressions are important, and speaking intelligently plays a part. On the other hand, no one ever asks a Texan to change their accent. From that angle, you have to change your affect if you are black, and that kinda sucks, but if you don't, you make it hard on yourself.

I heard a stand up routine, a black comedian saying he's gonna name his kid a regular white name, not an ethnic black name like sheniqua. Why put the kid at a disadvantage from the get go?

[BSweets]

Hmm, I came across this tonight. I have read in several places that Bruno is a teacher though so maybe he does both?

http://community.livejournal.com/ohnotheydidnt/6004423.html

"Bruno is not Carmen's husband nor Rose's dad-Now Fox's explanation is that he's Carmen's "boyfriend", which is dubious as well. Bruno is an actor, not a "school teacher" who's acting credits on imdb date back to the 1980s! Rose was the star of a Disney Channel show 'Movie Surfers' and even has an official page on Disney:

http://disney.go.com/disneypictures/moviesurfers/

Bruno the "teacher"'s film credits"

http://uk.imdb.com/name/nm0545969/

[newsposter]

I dont have time to read the links now but boy if they aren't married, that's pretty darn deceptive.

[pmyers]

My main problem with this show is that I don't think they put them in the correct situations. Rocco should have been with Rose (dressed in Black) at the bar so that he could hear first hand the racism from that guy. I just think they don't set the situations up right.

Just like they should have had Brian go into that shoe place as a black guy and a white guy to see if he was treated any different.

[Havana Brown]

Hmm, I came across this tonight. I have read in several places that Bruno is a teacher though so maybe he does both?

http://community.livejournal.com/ohnotheydidnt/6004423.html

"Bruno is not Carmen's husband nor Rose's dad-Now Fox's explanation is that he's Carmen's "boyfriend", which is dubious as well. Bruno is an actor, not a "school teacher" who's acting credits on imdb date back to the 1980s! Rose was the star of a Disney Channel show 'Movie Surfers' and even has an official page on Disney:

http://disney.go.com/disneypictures/moviesurfers/

Bruno the "teacher"'s film credits"

http://uk.imdb.com/name/nm0545969/

WTH??? That is sooooo not cool.

Great find Bsweets, sanx for sharing.

[Turtleboy]

WTH??? That is sooooo not cool.

Great find Bsweets, sanx for sharing.

It's been known, I think. That's why they have two last names, his and hers.

And I think he's her long time boyfriend, just not married.

Also, I think he's only had bit parts, and is a teacher.

I didn't know about Rose though. That's new info to me.

[The Flush]

Rose looks more attractive as a black girl than in her real appearance.

[newsposter]

maybe i'm not looking hard enough but on those 3 pages i dont see a lot of evidence that this is a total fake (though i still say bruno's not white regardless as my glasses aren't that poor)

i see that he's been in movies and disney...the girl has been in disney..and i dont see anything about the mom

[newsposter]

http://www.myspace.com/blackwhite

http://www.fxnetwork.com/shows/originals/blackwhite/index_2.php

under families it clearly infers they are all together. I notice they dont say where carmen works but they do say where renee works.