Lifetime still mentioned in the Tivo FAQs

[ScottUrman]

So I was browsing through the most popular FAQs on Tivo's web site here (http://www.tivo.com/1.6.1.asp) and see many mentions of Lifetime service. In particular:


How much does TiVo cost?
There are two costs associated with TiVo: 1. The TiVo® box. TiVo boxes range in price depending on recording capacity. See our Buy TiVo page for the most up-to-date pricing. 2. The TiVo® service subscription. Put the amazing, easy-to-use TiVo service to work for you for just $12.95* a month or a one-time product lifetime fee of $299. o If you have more than one TiVo subscription on the same account, you are eligible for a discounted monthly fee of just $6.95. Terms and conditions apply. There are two costs associated with TiVo:

1. The TiVo® box. TiVo boxes range in price depending on recording capacity. See our Buy TiVo page for the most up-to-date pricing.
2. The TiVo® service subscription. Put the amazing, easy-to-use TiVo service to work for you for just $12.95* a month or a one-time product lifetime fee of $299.
* If you have more than one TiVo subscription on the same account, you are eligible for a discounted monthly fee of just $6.95. Terms and conditions apply.

*TiVo service commitment required. Early termination fees and other restrictions apply. See tivo.com/policies for details. No early termination fee applies if canceled within 30 days. Multi-Service Discount now available for additional subscriptions. Learn more.



Somebody needs to do some updating... :rolleyes:

[TiVoStephen]

These existing FAQs will stay until Product Lifetime itself is removed Thursday evening at 8pm Pacific.

Thanks, but we're already aware of this and the updated pages are ready to be deployed tomorrow evening.

Three things will be happening tomorrow evening:

1. We will remove Product Lifetime.
2. We will be updating tivo.com, including FAQs, etc.
3. We will be introducing the new service-only prepay options.

Best regards,
Stephen

[Atomike]

Hmmm. It will be removed the second the option is unavailable.

Way to give people some warning.

Nice PR.

[ScottUrman]

Fair enough. I thought that lifetime was gone already.

[jfh3]

Hmmm. It will be removed the second the option is unavailable.

Way to give people some warning.

Nice PR.

Read the other gazillion threads on this before dissing Tivo. Lifetime is still available under some circimstances.

Tivo could've pulled the plug on new lifetime subs with zero warning. Despite what you seem to believe, they didn't.

[TiVoStephen]

Hmmm. It will be removed the second the option is unavailable.

Way to give people some warning.

Nice PR.Press releases, blog entries, forum updates and after-the-fact exceptions for customer who had older boxes. What should we have done instead? Remember, most customer who come to TiVo.com don't know our pricing rules and won't know about Product Lifetime.

[TiVoStephen]

Fair enough. I thought that lifetime was gone already.Nope!

Head to http://www.tivo.com/activate/

It'll be gone from tivo.com at 8pm Thursday March 16, 2006.

[jsdtivo]

I have recently ordered a new box and planned on activating a lifetime service. Now I see that after thursday I may not be able to get the lifetime. Will I be sending it back or will they let me get it?

[TiVoStephen]

No, don't send it back -- you can get Product Lifetime for that unit in the scenario you describe. You'll have to call customer support, 1-877-367-8486 for an exception. Per the summary thread (at the top of this forum), you'll have to act before April 15, 2006.

[Atomike]

Press releases, blog entries, forum updates and after-the-fact exceptions for customer who had older boxes. What should we have done instead?

I think the answer is more than obvious. Tivo feels the need to put those brash "star" advertisements in our faces to make money. Why not use the same grotesque tactic to tell subscribers something they may actually want to know?

I'd like a good reason why this was not done several weeks prior to the cut-off.
Let's hear it.

[TiVoStephen]

The vast majority of our customers who want Product Lifetime already have it.

Most customers who choose Monthly stay with monthly.

Most customers own one unit.

The exceptions to those rules are folks here on the forum, where we reached out. We felt that would be a better way to target the message.

[Atomike]

Better than on the main menu? Yes, how could anyone disagree with that blinding logic.

Look, the fact is that when Tivo wants it's subscribers to know something, there is a very routine and clear way they do so - through the stupid "stars" and the messages in the Tivo menu.

The fact that this was not done says a great deal about Tivo's true intentions. Saying otherwise is illogical, and patronizing.

[TiVoStephen]

Can you point to one other time we've used the stars to announce a policy change? The answer is never. That's not where we announce policy changes.

[Atomike]

Again, when Tivo wants me to know something, I get a message on my main menu. Feel free to change the word "star" to "message" in my earlier posts if you think it makes a logical difference.

I'm not trying to say what Tivo, throughout it's history, has done in regard to policy changes. I'm pointing out what it should have done about this particular issue to avoid an even greater backlash.

[megazone]

I'd like a good reason why this was not done several weeks prior to the cut-off.
Let's hear it.Because the change will not impact the vast majority of current users. Most people who would go lifetime already purchased it, and people on monthly won't be seeing any changes on their bills.

Announcing the changes would confuse more people than it would help - you know a lot of monthly people would end up thinking their bill was about to jump to $16.95, or $19.95 a month, and there would be lifetime people thinking their lifetime sub was somehow being terminated, not new availability.

Considering the minority of users who buy lifetime, and the surely much smaller minority of active users who would switch, it doesn't justify seeding FUD into their userbase.

[Bierboy]

Let's stop feeding the troll.

[HDTiVo]

Hmmm. It will be removed the second the option is unavailable.

Way to give people some warning.

Nice PR.
Lifetime will be available for purchase until 4/15 on units bought before 3/16. That's not bad, considering.

There has been enough publicity (infamy) spread around to get the word out - at least that's my biased opinion. ;)

[Atomike]

Let's stop feeding the troll.

Are you sure you know what a troll is? I do not think that you do.

I'm expressing my opinion.
I have a Tivo. I love my Tivo. I think the Tivo company made a mistake.

If you think that makes a troll, I don't think this whole forum thing is for you.

[HDTiVo]

Are you sure you know what a troll is? I do not think that you do.

I'm expressing my opinion.
I have a Tivo. I love my Tivo. I think the Tivo company made a mistake.

If you think that makes a troll, I don't think this whole forum thing is for you.
Where does the term "troll" come from, anyway?

[Rawson819]

Where does the term "troll" come from, anyway?

From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_trolls) :

"In Internet terminology, a troll is a person who posts rude or offensive messages on the Internet, such as in online discussion forums, to disrupt discussion or to upset its participants (see Anonymous Internet posting). "Troll" can also mean the message itself or be a verb meaning to post such messages. "Trolling" is also commonly used to describe the activity.

The contemporary use of the term first appeared on Usenet groups in the late 1980s. It is widely thought to be a contraction of the phrase "trolling for suckers", itself derived from the sport fishing technique of trolling. The latter can be compared with trawling, of which it is a near homophone.

The word likely gained currency because of its apt second meaning, drawn from the "trolls", which are portrayed in Scandinavian folklore, and children's tales, as often ugly, obnoxious creatures that are bent on wickedness and mischief. The image of the troll under the bridge in the "Three Billy Goats Gruff" emphasizes the troll's negative reaction to outsiders intruding on its physical environment, particularly those who intend to graze in its domain without permission."

and relevant to this thread:

"The term troll is highly subjective. Some readers may characterize a post as trolling, while others may regard the same post as a legitimate contribution to the discussion, even if controversial. The term is often used to discredit an opposing position, or its proponent, by argument ad hominem. Likewise, calling someone a troll makes assumptions about a writer's motives that may be incorrect."


I happen to agree with Atomike that a message sent to current subscriber boxes notifying that the ability to purchase lifetime service was coming to an end would have been a good idea. I don't think he's trolling; however he could have made his point in a less inflamatory manner.

[jfh3]

I happen to agree with Atomike that a message sent to current subscriber boxes notifying that the ability to purchase lifetime service was coming to an end would have been a good idea. I don't think he's trolling; however he could have made his point in a less inflamatory manner.

Why? What possible good would that have served? Any current subscriber that would've seen a yellow star ad already has a Tivo and already decided against getting lifetime (if they didn't already have it).

Tivo certainly didn't want to encourage a mass-run on lifetime conversions - that would've been counter-productive.

Some seem to be forgetting how much notice Tivo did give compared to what most companies would've done.

[Rawson819]

Why? What possible good would that have served? Any current subscriber that would've seen a yellow star ad already has a Tivo and already decided against getting lifetime (if they didn't already have it).

I know quite a few people who purchased units over the last few years who didn't want to commit to lifetime until they determined if TiVo was for them - then later upgraded from monthly to lifetime.

Your arguments against a message sent to the boxes kinda contradict each other. People who have TiVo and decided against lifetime service wouldn't be interested even if they got such a message or there would be a mass run on upgrades to lifetime service. Which is it - or are you just trolling my post? :p (and just for clarification the smiley is to imply I'm joking)

I agree that TiVo has done much more to notify users of this rate change than most companies would have dreamed of and I appreciate it - but I still think a message (not a yellow star ad) sent to the boxes would have been a good thing.

[jfh3]

Your arguments against a message sent to the boxes kinda contradict each other. People who have TiVo and decided against lifetime service wouldn't be interested even if they got such a message or there would be a mass run on upgrades to lifetime service. Which is it - or are you just trolling my post? :p (and just for clarification the smiley is to imply I'm joking)

I agree that TiVo has done much more to notify users of this rate change than most companies would have dreamed of and I appreciate it - but I still think a message (not a yellow star ad) sent to the boxes would have been a good thing.

Yeah, I guess my argument contradicted itself - I'm somewhat conflicted myself - I like the idea of lifetime as a consumer, less so as a stockholder (though wearing either hat I can't see why discontinuing the option is better than raising the price).

I guess my real point was that Tivo didn't (and shouldn't) want to do anything that would cause more people to convert to lifetime than normally would have otherwise.

[HDTiVo]

(though wearing either hat I can't see why discontinuing the option is better than raising the price).

In order for TiVo to implement the $469 3yr Bundle, Lifetime would have to be raised to something like $599+ This would have highlighted the dramatic increase in pricing.

Which is it - or are you just trolling my post?

Another thing I need to learn about. :)

[galewis]

FWIW -- I have a friend who bought a Series II based on my recommendation just over a year ago. Because of cash constraints at the time, he went with the monthly fee and has been monthly since then. He's not a geek type -- I helped him hook up and network his unit, and he doesn't read this forum.

When I learned a few days ago that the subscription model was changing, I emailed him and he switched to lifetime immediately. Except for my letting him know of the change, the opportunity to switch over would have passed him by without his ever having heard about it.

I agree that TiVo should notify their users in some way or other. Maybe a PTC message, maybe a yellow star, maybe a mass email or a mass postal mailing... maybe something else. I mean, the credit card companies send out those little pamphlets notifying their customers of changes to the cardmember agreement... why wouldn't TiVo want to do the same thing? To me it just seems like an honest, forthright way to conduct business.

I'm thinking back to the days when I purchased my HDVR2 after having owned a Series I. I known there's been a raft of discussion on this topic already, and I know that others may disagree with me, but I purchased that unit because I was led to believe that it was a Series II (the shipping box is in my attic, and I'm pretty sure the phrase 'Series II' is on there somewhere). As the months passed and it became apparent that I was not going to enjoy Series II features, I felt really disenfranchised. Whether it was TiVo's "fault" or DirecTV's "fault" doesn't matter to me; the point is that someone somewhere wasn't, in my mind, completely forthright in communicating what I was getting. It's (obviously) still somewhat of a sore spot with me. This situation seems to bear some similarity.

Why TiVo would not want to prevent this same sort of ill will among its customer base is beyond me. I'd bet it'd cost them very little (read: nothing) to use a PTC message or a yellow star to alert its constituency of the change, making sure that EVERY ONE of its customers has had ample opportunity to switch if they so desire. Why leave room for equivocation when it's so easy to prevent it?

Others may disagree. Just my two cents' worth.