Series 3 clarifications

[prince0711]

Hey all,

I'm not sure if this is where I should put this, but oh well. So here it goes:

We recently bought a HD tv (cable card ready), digital cable with HD channels (through Charter cable). We also have a Series 2 stand alone TIVO unit (which we ABSOLUTELY love, I don't know why we didn't do it sooner). So here are my questions:
1) When our cable was connected, the cable guy told us that we wouldn't be able to record the digital channels or the high def pictures, because the TIVO was unable to get those channels. So, with the series 3, will it be able to record the digital channels, etc?
2) After looking at the forums, I noticed that the only thing it wouldn't be able to do is transfer between units (which right now is no big deal, because I only have one), is this the only difference?

I am looking forward to this coming out,b ecasue for the past couple weeks, my wife & I have been debating to go with Cable HD DVR (to get the added channels & the tv guide, etc), but just couldn't bring our self to pay $20/month for that. I realize that Series 3 will be expensive, but have heard horrible things of TIVO vs. DVR (DVR not having a lot of the qualities as TIVO). Needless to say, I think I'd be disappointed. So with series 3, it seems like the best of both worlds, maybe?! now if they would only release the darn thing or some spec at least. Anyway, thanks for listening. Any advice would be greatly appreicated.

[gastrof]

1) Current TiVos can't record High Def because they're standard def. devices. Even if you had an HD cable box and downconverted the output, all you'd get is just that...a downconverted signal. Your TiVo would be able to record, but not in high def. It also wouldn't be able to get or record any digital channels you need a box for if all you have is a cable card. The card is feeding your TV, not the TiVo, and current TiVos have no way to use cable cards.

Series 3 units will.

If you put a cable card into a device that uses one, and make the appropriate arrangements with your cable company, that device will be able to receive those channels. As to recording them, some channels seem to have found a way to prevent that. It's up to them.

2) You've lost me as to what the "it" is that can't transfer. Are you talking series 2, series 3, or the recordings themselves?

[gastrof]

By the way...

The TiVo is a "pay for service" unit. While you won't have to pay your cable company for its DVR box, you will have to pay for your TiVo series 3, and then keep paying them monthly (or an upfront equivalent) to keep your box working. Otherwise, it's a giant paperweight.

Also. lifetime service is no longer offered, after today. This will apparently be true of the series 3 units when they're released as well.

The story is that Comcast Cable has a deal with Tivo to start using TiVo software in their DVRs in the near future.

[rainwater]

Also. lifetime service is no longer offered, after today. This will apparently be true of the series 3 units when they're released as well.


How do you know this? Currently TiVo is offering a contest where the winner receives a S3 w/ lifetime service. So I wouldn't be saying that lifetime will not be available on S3 units.

[PhillyGuy]

How do you know this? Currently TiVo is offering a contest where the winner receives a S3 w/ lifetime service. So I wouldn't be saying that lifetime will not be available on S3 units.

Lifetime service is included as part of the contest. Just because they have the capability to offer it doesn't mean that they will.

[prince0711]

I am ok with not being able record high def channels in high def. I just want to be able to record those channels & wathc what is being shown. It is ok that it won't be in HD, but standard/etc.

As far as the difital cahnnels, any idea as to what channels won't allow you to record?

TIVO monthly is still cheaper monthly with more options than a cable DVR.

As far as my 2nd question....all I was wondering is if there are any other things that will be different between series 2 & 3, besides not being able to transfer to another TIVO unit? Will I be able to still transfer to my PC, etc?

Thanks!

[Guindalf]

How do you know this? Currently TiVo is offering a contest where the winner receives a S3 w/ lifetime service. So I wouldn't be saying that lifetime will not be available on S3 units.


Erm, from the source.....

That's a placeholder cost, established by lawyers. Pay no attention to the theoretical suggested retail cost for a product that's not yet for sale with a service option that will no longer be available when the product does go on sale.

[Steve_Martin]

I am ok with not being able record high def channels in high def. I just want to be able to record those channels & wathc what is being shown. It is ok that it won't be in HD, but standard/etc.

Thanks!

If that's the case, why not get a Series 2 today?

I have a HD plasma and a cablecard and a series 2 Tivo. The cable RF is split, one leg goes to the plasma with cablecard installed. The other leg goes to a cable box (motorola STB). The cable box connects to the Tivo, the Tivo connects to one of the inputs on the TV. This allows me to record digital channels with the Tivo, and watch some other channel while Tivo is recording.

[ZeoTiVo]

I am ok with not being able record high def channels in high def. I just want to be able to record those channels & wathc what is being shown. It is ok that it won't be in HD, but standard/etc.

As far as the difital cahnnels, any idea as to what channels won't allow you to record? Gastrof is just being a bit pessimistic these days.
There currently are no channels that do not allow you to record :rolleyes:
however for premium/digital channels they can pass along a macrovision flag to block recording - or copying or set a keep only for 24 hours etc.. flag. Mostly this happens on PPV or maybe an HBO special. I do not use digital cable so have no idea if it is even happening at this time. I suspect not.

TIVO monthly is still cheaper monthly with more options than a cable DVR.

As far as my 2nd question....all I was wondering is if there are any other things that will be different between series 2 & 3, besides not being able to transfer to another TIVO unit? Will I be able to still transfer to my PC, etc?

Thanks!
you should be able to transfer SD content between a series 3 adn a series 2 according to what TiVo has said so far about series 3. It is HD content that can not be passed to a series 2 as it can not play it. between two series 3 MRV should be as it is today - save for larger HD files.

the other thing is that a series 3 will playback mpeg4 content as well as mpeg2. This means that more content can be downloaded into the TiVo or pulled across from a PC. This will be a distinct advantage over series 2.

I assume you can copy HD contetn to the PC but that is speculation only on my part.


aslo note the cable card in the series 3 - that will make hooking up to digital cable as easy as getting a cable card from the cable company and then screwing the coax cable on. Channel changes will be regular speed as well since the TiVo controls the cable card and tuner directly

[crowfan]

I think the OP is confusing digital channels with HD channels. The current S2 TiVos CAN record digital channels -- they just need a cable box to feed them the descrambled signal. They can also record HD channels -- just not IN HD.

If they told you that TiVo could not record digital channels, they were either wrong or lying. They were correct when they said that it can't record in HD.

The forthcoming S3 boxes will beable to record in HD.

[Bierboy]

....While you won't have to pay your cable company for its DVR box...Excuse me? Then what are you paying your monthly DVR rental fee for? (and the extra fee for a digital box, and the outrageous charges for expanded cable, and the extra $$ for HD channels?) Maybe you're not "buying" the hardware, but you're sure paying for it!

[atmuscarella]

Just to be technically correct current Stand Alone Series 2 TiVos:


Can only record standard definition analog signals.
Can not directly record any digital signals (standard or high definition).
Can record any digital signal (standard or high definition) which has been converted to a standard definition analog signal.
Can not descramble scrambled cable signals


If you currently receive digital cable or Satellite to use a Series 2 TiVo, you need a cable or satellite box which will convert the signal from digital to analog and descramble it (if necessary).

The upcoming Series 3 is supposed to be able to:


Descramble scrambled cable signals with the use of cable cards
Directly record standard and high definition digital cable signals
Directly record standard and high definition digital OTA signals
Record OTA analog signals
Record analog cable signals


So for the Series 3 you will not be able to use it with Satellite and will not need a cable box for cable, but will need cable card(s) to descramble the scrambled cable signals.

Thanks,

atmuscarella

[inaka]

Excuse me? Then what are you paying your monthly DVR rental fee for? Maybe you're not "buying" the hardware, but you're sure paying for it!
I think it's pretty obvious that the original poster meant that there's no large upfront cost for the DVR when you get it "free" from your cable co. Actually, one could argue that it actually *is* free. My HD DVR (Motorola 6412 Phase III) is $9.95/mo for the HD DVR, but that *includes* the HD package of channels. So with DTV, I'd be paying more than that for just the HD package alone. With my setup, I could say I'm paying $9.95/mo for the HD package, and they give me the HD DVR for rent for free. It all depends on how you look at it...

[segaily]

the thing that really upsets me about the free cable DVR's is the fact that they made me pay a mandatory installation fee.

[jmoak]

With my setup, I could say I'm paying $9.95/mo for the HD package, and they give me the HD DVR for rent for free. You could say??!?!?? HA!!!

I'd be singing that from the rooftop! I'd have that on a bumpersticker! I'd have t-shirts made! I'd be braggin about that for years!!!!

JEEZE!!!! THAT'S ONE HECK OF A DEAL!!!!

Sir, I am sorely jealous!

Digital, hd, dvr and remote cost $40+ in my neighborhood! Plus another $44 for standard cable service!!!

Whoo!:eek:

[dt_dc]

The upcoming Series 3 is supposed to be able to:


Descramble scrambled cable signals with the use of cable cards

(...)
So for the Series 3 you will not be able to use it with Satellite and will not need a cable box for cable, but will need cable card(s) to descramble the scrambled cable signals.
Just for clarification ... scrambling vs. encryption

S3's will NOT descramble a scrambled (analog) channel. They WILL (with a CableCard) decrypt encrypted (digital) channels. Subtle difference ... but important.

Most cable plants are carrying all the premium channels as encrypted digital channels. The S3 will work for those channels (with a CableCard). However, there are still some cable plants that carry a few scrambled analog channels. The S3 will NOT directly work for those channels.

Scrambled analog is becoming more and more rare every day ... but it's still around.

[ZeoTiVo]

Just for clarification ... scrambling vs. encryption

S3's will NOT descramble a scrambled (analog) channel. They WILL (with a CableCard) decrypt encrypted (digital) channels. Subtle difference ... but important.

Most cable plants are carrying all the premium channels as encrypted digital channels. The S3 will work for those channels (with a CableCard). However, there are still some cable plants that carry a few scrambled analog channels. The S3 will NOT work for those channels.

Scrambled analog is becoming more and more rare every day ... but it's still around.


yeah we have channel 7 is HBO on analog and it is scrambled, we would not see that on the series 3 but would see the digital tier of HBO on channels above 99.

also to clarify a series 3 a bit more
the cable card will decrypt the digital stream and pass it unencrypted to the tuner inside the series 3. The tuner will record the appropriate channel to the hard drive as mpeg2.

[inaka]

You could say??!?!?? HA!!!

I'd be singing that from the rooftop! I'd have that on a bumpersticker! I'd have t-shirts made! I'd be braggin about that for years!!!!

JEEZE!!!! THAT'S ONE HECK OF A DEAL!!!!

Sir, I am sorely jealous!

Digital, hd, dvr and remote cost $40+ in my neighborhood! Plus another $44 for standard cable service!!!

Whoo!:eek:
Ouch, is that Comcast??? That price seems crazy...

[Steve_Martin]

Just for clarification ... scrambling vs. encryption

S3's will NOT descramble a scrambled (analog) channel. They WILL (with a CableCard) decrypt encrypted (digital) channels. Subtle difference ... but important.

Most cable plants are carrying all the premium channels as encrypted digital channels. The S3 will work for those channels (with a CableCard). However, there are still some cable plants that carry a few scrambled analog channels. The S3 will NOT directly work for those channels.

Scrambled analog is becoming more and more rare every day ... but it's still around.

Weird. When we first got our CableCard, our cable company still had HBO and Showtime on analog channels (23 and 24). The CableCard decoded them just fine. Those channels have since been moved to the digital tier.

[jsmeeker]

Ouch, is that Comcast??? That price seems crazy...


Seems in the ballpark to me.

I am now paying $40 per month for basic, *analog* cable. NO premium channels at all. Previously, I was paying $21.65 per month for virtually the same lineup when the cable was run by the apartment complex. Moving to Comcast added a few channels and almost doubled my bill.

I could get digital package with more stuff. That costs. The box would cost. If I wanted HiDef stuff, that would cost too. A DVR? that would be yet another cost.

So, for me to go to a point where I could jsut get HiDef from Comcast along with the traditional digital cable channels, it would probably cost me another $30 or so per month.

[jfh3]

While you won't have to pay your cable company for its DVR box ...

What cable company do you have that doesn't charge for its' DVR?

I don't know a single one that doesn't charge $9.95/month or more (plus whatever else it costs to get to the minimal service level so you can get the DVR in the first place).

[Stu_Bee]

To get back to the OP question....since it's similar to one I had myself....

With a series 2 Tivo you could setup your connection as follows:

Splitter---> Motorola STB ---> Tivo ----> HDTV
|
------------> HDTV with Cablecard.

This setup will enable you to:
- Record HD Channels on your Tivo (although they will be in SD resolution)
- Record Digital Channels on your Tivo
- Watch HD Channels in HD on your TV when bypassing your Tivo.
- Watch the Tivo Recorded HD channels (in sd) in proper 16:9 aspect ratio (?)

Assumptions:
The Motorola STB needs to be a HD Capable box, not just a digital one.
You'll be using a IR blaster cable for Tivo to change the channels of the Motorola STB.
======
Anyone please correct if I'm wrong...cause I plan on doing this same thing. Switching a comcast Digital Motorola box for a Comcast HD STB Motorola box.
======

[Steve_Martin]

I have the exact setup you describe except my STB is SD only.

I use the serial output of the Tivo to control the STB.

It works fine. Digital channels look very good in SD.

[jmoak]

Ouch, is that Comcast??? That price seems crazy...I agree. It's frackin' nutz!
Brighthouse Cable (TWC)
No movie channels, no extras

"Bundled"

56.99 - Basic, Standard, Digital Premier, Music Choice
6.00 - high def service
9.95 - hd dvr
6.00 - dvr service
2.79 - TimeGUARD (No idea what this is, but it's a "Required Fee", so I'm told)
7.19 - taxes and fees

total - 88.92

that's with the "bundled" $2 savings.:rolleyes:

[HDTiVo]

I think it's pretty obvious that the original poster meant that there's no large upfront cost for the DVR when you get it "free" from your cable co. Actually, one could argue that it actually *is* free. My HD DVR (Motorola 6412 Phase III) is $9.95/mo for the HD DVR, but that *includes* the HD package of channels. So with DTV, I'd be paying more than that for just the HD package alone. With my setup, I could say I'm paying $9.95/mo for the HD package, and they give me the HD DVR for rent for free. It all depends on how you look at it...
I see more and more evidence of this pricing - the cost of going from analog to DTV/HDTV being zero and the DVR STB being extra (ie. $10) The mix of extra channels (HD/DTV) you get for "zero" varies, as does the "zero" amount. But in more and more places the cost is going down.

[dt_dc]

Weird. When we first got our CableCard, our cable company still had HBO and Showtime on analog channels (23 and 24). The CableCard decoded them just fine. Those channels have since been moved to the digital tier.Are you sure it wasn't just picking up a digital simulcast mapped to the same channel number as the analog? Lots of cable companies did this before dropping the analog premiums.

[dt_dc]

also to clarify a series 3 a bit more
the cable card will decrypt the digital stream and pass it unencrypted to the tuner inside the series 3That would be a violation of the CableLabs spec / licensing agreement.

What is supposed to happen is after decrypting the TS, the CableCard re-encrypts it using a public key from the S3 and then passes on the re-encrypted stream ... which the S3 can then decrypt using its own private key.

[Steve_Martin]

Are you sure it wasn't just picking up a digital simulcast mapped to the same channel number as the analog? Lots of cable companies did this before dropping the analog premiums.

That's probably the case. Thanks for the clarification.

[nrnble]

1) Will the Series 3 Tivo record more than one channel at time?

2) Is the Series 3 recording the digital cable "digital stream" to the hard drive (ie like DirectTivo)?

3) Has Tivo ever considered adding the option for Time compression playback? ie playback at 1.5 times faster than normal with sound.

Thanks

[SleepyBob]

1) Will the Series 3 Tivo record more than one channel at time?

2) Is the Series 3 recording the digital cable "digital stream" to the hard drive (ie like DirectTivo)?

3) Has Tivo ever considered adding the option for Time compression playback? ie playback at 1.5 times faster than normal with sound.

Thanks
1) Yes
2) Yes
3) The concept has been played with, at least. There were some postings about doing "fast-talk" on 1xFF a couple years ago. From what I recall, there were complications with speeding up digitally recorded sound and it didn't work satisfactorily. For some reason, speeding up audio via analog means is much simpler.

[classicsat]

1: Yes.
2: Yes
3: I don't know.

[nrnble]

Another question comes to mind about the series3 Tivo:

Does the Series3 record analog signals as MPEG2 or MPEG4, or both?

Someone wrote that it will play mpeg4 video, so i am wondering if it records MPEG4 as well. The benefit would be more record time using less HDD space.

If there are some good existing threads on series3 already, feel free to let me know.

thx

[chadly25]

Since the recording time of the Series 3 is semetrical (time v.s. disc space) to the recording time of the HR10-250 (which is MPEG2), I would guess that they are not using MPEG4.

[classicsat]

If they did encode analog video into MPEG4, there would be the same time/disk space issue, but with more efficient ratios.

So far, it seems it would record analog video in MPEG2, to retain compatibility with MRV to current S2 standalones.

[johnd7]

To get back to the OP question....since it's similar to one I had myself....

With a series 2 Tivo you could setup your connection as follows:

Splitter---> Motorola STB ---> Tivo ----> HDTV
|
------------> HDTV with Cablecard.

This setup will enable you to:
- Record HD Channels on your Tivo (although they will be in SD resolution)
- Record Digital Channels on your Tivo
- Watch HD Channels in HD on your TV when bypassing your Tivo.
- Watch the Tivo Recorded HD channels (in sd) in proper 16:9 aspect ratio (?)

Assumptions:
The Motorola STB needs to be a HD Capable box, not just a digital one.
You'll be using a IR blaster cable for Tivo to change the channels of the Motorola STB.
======
Anyone please correct if I'm wrong...cause I plan on doing this same thing. Switching a comcast Digital Motorola box for a Comcast HD STB Motorola box.
======


That is what I wanted to do when I got my new HD TV but Cox has refused to do it. First I was told it can't work by a cs rep, I told him it could and asked for him to explain to me why and he just yelled at me and transfered me to Tech Support who said they cannot have someone install a Cable Card on a TV that also has a digi box. When I pressed him for more info as to why he finally agreed to get a supervisor and then hung up on me while I waited. I finally talked to another tech support person who spoke to a supervisor that verified it would obviously work no problem and they would get me to a cs rep that understood that so I could schedule the appointment...I was hung up on again. At that point I gave up for now. I ordered an HD DVR self install so now I have HD DVR and my old regular Tivo on the same TV and that is working out fine for now. The Cox HD DVR interface is horrible though and I can't wait for the Series 3, I will be an early adopter for sure, realizing that it may come at a price and with bugs.

[megazone]

Does the Series3 record analog signals as MPEG2 or MPEG4, or both?I asked at CES - MPEG2.

[Steve_Martin]

That is what I wanted to do when I got my new HD TV but Cox has refused to do it. First I was told it can't work by a cs rep, I told him it could and asked for him to explain to me why and he just yelled at me and transfered me to Tech Support who said they cannot have someone install a Cable Card on a TV that also has a digi box. When I pressed him for more info as to why he finally agreed to get a supervisor and then hung up on me while I waited. I finally talked to another tech support person who spoke to a supervisor that verified it would obviously work no problem and they would get me to a cs rep that understood that so I could schedule the appointment...I was hung up on again. At that point I gave up for now. I ordered an HD DVR self install so now I have HD DVR and my old regular Tivo on the same TV and that is working out fine for now. The Cox HD DVR interface is horrible though and I can't wait for the Series 3, I will be an early adopter for sure, realizing that it may come at a price and with bugs.

Ouch, Cox did it on our setup exactly as described by StuBee with the exception that the STB is not HD; its SD.

[mattack]

3) Has Tivo ever considered adding the option for Time compression playback? ie playback at 1.5 times faster than normal with sound.


I can't answer your question about Tivo, but some non-Tivo recorders *do* allow this. (Also, of course, some VCRs have had this functionality too.)

For example, my Toshiba RD-XS32 lets me play at the first FF speed with sound. I *think* it's 1.5x, but I'm not sure. I use it a lot for news and documentaries.. and Who Wants to be a Millionaire (ff through them blabbing with each other, 1Xff through the actual question & answer period.)

[nrnble]

I can't answer your question about Tivo, but some non-Tivo recorders *do* allow this. (Also, of course, some VCRs have had this functionality too.)

For example, my Toshiba RD-XS32 lets me play at the first FF speed with sound. I *think* it's 1.5x, but I'm not sure. I use it a lot for news and documentaries.. and Who Wants to be a Millionaire (ff through them blabbing with each other, 1Xff through the actual question & answer period.)
I want a "Fast Play" feature for the same reason you are have stated. Sometimes I don't mind watching "info" related shows, such as the news, at a faster speed. I have a DVD player that plays back at 1.5 times, and WinDVD software that has the option to control playback speed faster and slower.

[nrnble]

Is there a projected release date for the Series3? Ie Summer, Fall, Winter.

Do people need to purchase the "cable card" separately or get it from their cable company? I don't know anything about cable cards and how they work. If so how much do they typically cost to buy or rent from the cable company?

[jsmeeker]

Is there a projected release date for the Series3? Ie Summer, Fall, Winter.

Do people need to purchase the "cable card" separately or get it from their cable company? I don't know anything about cable cards and how they work. If so how much do they typically cost to buy or rent from the cable company?


second half of 2006.

You can rent (or maybe get for free) the cable card from your cable company. Supposedly, they are supposed to provide them (some federal law). What happens in actual practice may be different.

You don't need the cable card to make it work. Only for channels that are "protected" like the premium pay channels, the "digital" channels, etc. It really depends on how your cable provider is setup, though. The cable card is there instead of the box. But, depending on the version of the cable card, you may not get all the features of your cable service that you would if you had a box (like PPV, on-demand stuff, interactive guides, etc.)

[Dan203]

I want a "Fast Play" feature for the same reason you are have stated. Sometimes I don't mind watching "info" related shows, such as the news, at a faster speed. I have a DVD player that plays back at 1.5 times, and WinDVD software that has the option to control playback speed faster and slower.

TiVo will display Closed Captioning in 1x FF mode. Not quite as handy as having actual sound, but might help you get through the news if you can read fast. :)

Is there a projected release date for the Series3? Ie Summer, Fall, Winter.

TiVo's only official statement has been "second half of 2006". However the current American idol contest has a blurb in the rules about the grand prize being delivered within 4 months of the end of the contest, so that would suggest a September release.

Do people need to purchase the "cable card" separately or get it from their cable company? I don't know anything about cable cards and how they work. If so how much do they typically cost to buy or rent from the cable company?

CableCARDs are something you rent from your cable company. Most cable companies charge $1-$2 per month per card. For dual tuner functionality the Series 3 requires either two single stream cards or one multi-stream card. As of right now you can only get single stream cards, but the major cable companies have said that multi-stream cards should be available this summer so you may or may not be able to get away with just renting one.

Dan

[nrnble]

Thanks for the answers. I am interested in a series 3. I have three tivos already, so there is no urgency to get another. I am unsure yet if I am going to like the new pricing that lacks a lifetime subscription. I can understand it from a business point of view, but currently I think the monthly subscription is over priced for what it provides on a month to month basis. I love Tivo and still have my 1999 tivo that I purchased for $1200.

[jayfest]

>>>My HD DVR (Motorola 6412 Phase III) is $9.95/mo for the HD DVR, but that *includes* the HD package of channels.

If this is Comcast, I was able to get a HD box without DVR for free and I still got the HD channels. So you can think of it as paying for the HD package if you want to justify it in your mind, but I had the HD channels for free (or it might be $1) for several months before I got my DVR. Unless they've changed their pricing policy (which wouldn't surprise me)....

[jayfest]

I swapped my Comcast DVR a few weeks ago for a new one and for a few hours after I installed it I got ALL the channels. Along with the Cinemax and the Spanish channels and the soccer, I got one called Channel Comcast OnDemand, which is apparently intended for Comcast employees only. I watched a few minutes of some Comcast executives speaking at some meeting, a funny video with real Comcast employees rapping about how great it is to work for Comcast AND a promotional video talking about the upcoming new features Comcast will be offering. One of those was called Multi-Room Viewing. This sounds to me a lot like TiVo transfer. I suppose it might be tied in with the usage of TiVo software in Comcast boxes, but it would seem to be a reason to hold off on getting that S3 TiVo (at least for Comcast subscribers) until we find out just exactly which features it will have that the Comcast boxes will not. It looks like a great race.

[bferrell]

Gastrof is just being a bit pessimistic these days.
There currently are no channels that do not allow you to record :rolleyes:
however for premium/digital channels they can pass along a macrovision flag to block recording - or copying or set a keep only for 24 hours etc.. flag. Mostly this happens on PPV or maybe an HBO special. I do not use digital cable so have no idea if it is even happening at this time. I suspect not.



(emphasis added) I beg to differ, SPEED Channel will not allow my 8300HD to record. Since I haven't bothered to hook my Tivo DVR up to that DVR (seemed silly) I don't know what it would do with that signal, but I was simply astounded when I went to record an F1 race and it wouldn't allow me to. I simply won't get up at 6am on a Sunday to watch it.

[lajohn27]

Ferrell:

That may be a misconfiguration of the channel in the PVR by your cable company. I'd VERY surprised if it would actually prevent you from recording on the TIVO.

And regardless, it's definitely some kind of mistake either with the broadcaster or your cable co.

And I know for a fact that I can record from SPEED TV here in Canada - admittedly this is a slightly different feed.

Some HD channels here in Canada were being distributed by a cable co. with 5C=0 (or something like that) which prevented most HD-PVRs from recording them. However, it didn't affect TIVO's.

This was some misconfiguration in the gear at the cable headend and was changed.

J

[Puppy76]

A further note about cable cards. From an arstechnica article, the cable card needs to be involved for both encrypting AND decrypting video-and a 1.0 cablecard can only do one at a time.

So in order to record two streams (that require a cable card) and play back a third, you'd have to have two 2.0 cards, or one 2.0 and one 1.0 card (my understanding is the newer cards that will hit the market will still only handle two streams at once, which isn't enough for a Series 3 Tivo to record two streams and playback a third...and I wonder how or if Tivo2Go will work with stuff recorded through a cablecard?)

[Dan203]

That is incorrect. The CableCARD is only required for decryption. Once the stream is decrypted it is a plain MPEG stream which the TiVo will then apply it's own encryption scheme to. That's why there is an approval process for CableCARD devices. Cable Labs has to approve of the way the device protects the stream after it comes out of the CableCARD.

Plus think about it. If this were true how would any device be able to use just one card? Even a basic CableCARD ready TV needs to be able to decrypt the stream and play it back at the same time. And the Sony CableCARD DVR proves that a recording device can work just fine with a single card.

Also the 2.0 spec is not even finalized yet and has nothing to do with multi-stream. The 2.0 spec is mainly for two way communication and interactive content, such as PPV and VOD. For multi-stream there is already a multi-stream adendum to the 1.0 spec, and cards based on that should be available sometime this year. Also these cards support up to 5 streams, so even if this were true it would work fine with a multi-stream card.

Dan

[Puppy76]

That is incorrect. The CableCARD is only required for decryption. Once the stream is decrypted it is a plain MPEG stream which the TiVo will then apply it's own encryption scheme to. That's why there is an approval process for CableCARD devices. Cable Labs has to approve of the way the device protects the stream after it comes out of the CableCARD.

Rereading it, maybe I was misunderstaning the article. http://arstechnica.com/guides/other/cablecard.ars
It is reencrypted, but I guess the cablecard isn't involved with decrypting that rencrypted stream. So with a first gen cablecard on a Tivo you could record a single stream while playing back something already recorded, but you just couldn't record two streams at once (without a multistream card).

Plus think about it. If this were true how would any device be able to use just one card? Even a basic CableCARD ready TV needs to be able to decrypt the stream and play it back at the same time.

Well the TV is just decrypting it and displaying it, whereas I was thinking the Tivo needed one card to decrypt, and another to record at the same time-but I was just misreading the article I guess. (It would just need two cards to record two streams at once...if we're talking about the first gen cards.)

Some of the stuff 2.0 adds (if I'm reading it right) like support for interactive guide data is worthless if you have a Tivo...since obviously you'll just use the supiror guide stuff Tivo gives you :)

Thanks for the clarification! I think I understand how this goes now :)

I hope all this encryption nonsense dosen't change our ability to use Tivo2go with all (or at least most) content on an S3. Like hopefully you can just seamlessly transfer off both stuff recorded by an NTSC tuner, and an ATSC tuner.

[Dan203]

So with a first gen cablecard on a Tivo you could record a single stream while playing back something already recorded, but you just couldn't record two streams at once (without a multistream card).

That's why the Series 3 has two CableCARD slots. So you can use two cards to record two streams. (or you can insert a single multi-stream card in a designated slot and get the same result)

I hope all this encryption nonsense dosen't change our ability to use Tivo2go with all (or at least most) content on an S3. Like hopefully you can just seamlessly transfer off both stuff recorded by an NTSC tuner, and an ATSC tuner.

It's illegal for them to put any restrictions on TV which is broadcast over public airwaves, so TTG and mRV should both work without restriction on anything recorded from a public channel. After that however it's up to the cable company and/or individual channel as to whether they allow those features to work.

Dan

[dt_dc]

It is reencrypted, but I guess the cablecard isn't involved with decrypting that rencrypted stream. So with a first gen cablecard on a Tivo you could record a single stream while playing back something already recorded, but you just couldn't record two streams at once (without a multistream card).That's correct. The CableCard re-encrypts content and hands it to the Tivo ... but in a way the Tivo can unencrypt (without the card). From that point on ... it's up to Tivo to handle the content in an 'approved' manner.