30-Second Skip, a point of view

[tbeckner]

Ok, not a hack, but a backdoor code if you want to argue semantics. The reason it is not activated is because of the ability to skip commercials and the legal implications of that. It is NOT available on "most DVRs and DVR software" for this reason. Anyone remember the ReplayTV debacle related to commercial skipping?

D* merely covered their butts by making it a backdoor code instead of a feature to avert this controversy.The thread was closed, so I responded this way, because this matter should be explained in detail.

Something you should understand, almost nobody cares about 30-second skip to skip commercials anymore. The advertising industry has moved on. In fact, there is a possibility that TiVo might just make it a selectable option on an option menu in the Series 3.

I am almost sure that it was not DirecTV that made TiVo offer this as a key sequence, TiVo has always offered the 30-second skip for most of the last 5 years as a SPS30S keystroke sequence. I know, because I have had TiVo since May of 2000, with my Sony SVR-2000 TiVo. And believe it or not, almost all current up-to-date DVR products except for a few like the OTHER DVR (without a doubt a majority) offer 30-second skip today, including the NEW LG/Microsoft DVR (info below). And if you look closely, you will find that near the end of the VCR era, almost all of the VCRs offered 30-second skip, including the Sony I have in my Living room. You might read some of the DVR manuals, most of them are offered online. By the way, I only included four examples below, but if you want I could document all of them for you and the forum.

ReplayTV got into trouble because they took the commercial skipping to a whole new level. ReplayTV looked for the blank segments at the beginning of and end of the commercial segments to automatically skip commercials. This is what got them in trouble. But even with that trouble that their auto commercial skip gave them (they lost in court), ReplayTV continued to offer 30-second skip.

Of the major DVRs, the OTHER DVR is one of the few that DO NOT OFFER 30-second skip as a feature at any level at least not at this point in time.

And if you look at the specifications for most of the CURRENT MAJOR PC level DVR software (like SNAPSTREAM, info below), you will find the 30-second skip listed as a feature. BTW, most of the TV tuner cards only include CHEAP DVR software


ReplayTV Model 5500

See the Total Control section, listed under QuickSkip for their 30-second skip.

ReplayTV 5500 Features (http://www.digitalnetworksna.com/dvr/5500/features.asp)


LG/Microsoft DVR/DVD Recorder

Page 49 of the manual, LRM-519 User Guide (http://www.microsoftprogramguide.com/pdfs/LRM-519_UG_1006.pdf)

Skip Ahead (key)

When a TV show is rewound you can skip forward 30 seconds at a time by pressing SKIP >>|. For example, press SKIP to quickly forward through a commercial.


SNAPSTREAM

Red Light, Green Light, SnapStream Beyond TV Features (http://www.snapstream.com/products/beyondtv/features.asp)

Pause, fast-forward and rewind not only your recordings, but also live television. Beyond TV supports multiple speeds of fast-forward and rewind and 30-second skip and 7-second instant replay.


Microsoft UltimateTV DirecTV DVR

Sony Version Users Guide (http://www.ultimatetv.com/includes/pdf/Sonyuserguide.pdf)

See page 44 of the Microsoft UltimateTV Sony Users Guide and the Jump Ahead button, for 30-second skip.


And the LAST but NOT the LEAST, the 4-Million TiVos

The majority of the 4 million TiVo machines that have 30-second skip via the SPS30S keystrokes.

Note: To Guindalf, I made two small edits for clarity.


Additional Edit after Initial Post:

MythTV

The Open Source DVR/Media software MythTV, goes a step further and offers what got ReplayTV in trouble: Completely automatic commercial detection/skipping

Of course, installing MythTV is not for the faint of heart.

MythTV Features and Screenshots page (http://www.mythtv.org/modules.php?name=MythFeatures)


Motorola Moxi Software based DVR

With at least software version 3.2, the Moxi software on the Motorola boxes offers 30-second skip, see page 37 How far forward and backward can I go, and the SKIP button, for 30-second skip.

Moxi Users Guide (http://www.digeo.com/assets/manuals/moxi_manual_viewerguide_v3.2.pdf)

Note: It appears that the older Motorola DCT6412 software does not offer 30-second skip, which has an interface that is like my $1.95 per month DCT700 cable box, which is a very clumsy interface.

[JimSpence]

Thanks for your insight and info, but it would help if you linked to the closed thread. :)

[tbeckner]

Thanks for your insight and info, but it would help if you linked to the closed thread. :)Sorry Jim, the original thread was closed because of a discussion about another DVR, so I choose not to link it, but start a new thread to point out all of the misinformation about the 30-second skip.

What I didn't point out above, if the TiVo Comcast upgrade of the older Motorola boxes takes place, then even the old DCT6412 boxes will have the 30-sceond skip.

[tbeckner]

More Information


Microsoft UltimateTV DirecTV DVR

RCA Version Users Guide (http://www.ultimatetv.com/includes/pdf/RCAuserguide.pdf)

See page 44 of the Microsoft UltimateTV RCA Users Guide and the Jump Ahead button, for 30-second skip.


Scientific Atlanta (A Cisco Company)

In the FAQ, they do not say that the 30-second skip feature is not available on the 8000 or 8300 series machines, just that the AT-8400 Remote Control does not have a 30-second skip button, which is a very interesting description. On review of their other full function DVR remote controls, including the AT-8450 and AT-8455, there appears to be one key that is not currently assigned any function. The 8000 and 8300 series DVR might have the capability, but until the remote controls are assigned a key to access the 30-second skip function, it is non-functionable. Maybe a Scientific Atlanta user can let us know if they have found a way to access the 30-second skip function.

Q: Can I automatically "skip ahead" through commercials?
A: No, AllTouch AT-8400 remote control does not feature a 30-second skip ahead button. However, you can fast forward and rewind stored programs at three different speeds -- 4x, 10x and 32x normal speed. You can also skip back 8 seconds using the key to the left of the green LIST key for instant replays.


At this point I would say that the early cable DVRs do not have the 30-second skip, except the later Moxi software based Motorola DVRs, which my cable company offers.

In summary, based upon the total number of DVRs deployed and the total number of major DVR brands that offer the 30-second skip function either as a semi-hidden function (like TiVo) or documented directly in their manuals, I would say that a MAJORITY of DVRs currently deployed offer 30-second skip. And the number of units offering 30-second skip should increase over time, because the resistance to the function is fading and even in just the last two weeks, some advertisers are attempting to work with the DVR community to get their advertising read.

Sometime this year, the older Motorola DVRs on Comcast (the largest cable TV service provider) will likely offer the TiVo software upgrade and it is likely that the current SPS30S functionality will be present, so the largest number of currently deployed Motorola cable DVRs will then have 30-second skip. This will likely put pressure on Scientific Atlanta to include the 30-second skip function on the remote controls of their units. Then it will no longer be just a large majority of DVRs that have the 30-second skip function, but almost all, except for some older insignificant irrelevant DVR brands.

[JimSpence]

Sorry Jim, the original thread was closed because of a discussion about another DVR, so I choose not to link it, but start a new thread to point out all of the misinformation about the 30-second skip. Oh, that thread. :cool:

[tbeckner]

Since I brought up the New LG/Microsoft DVR LRM-519 in this thread, I thought that I would follow up on it with some interesting news.

At product launch after the initial discount, the cost of a lifetime subscription was $249.00, but it appears that by the end of January, LG and Microsoft bundled the lifetime subscription for free with no increase in the base cost of the LRM-519. Which means that they are likely having a very hard time selling the box, go figure?

I believe it would be extremely tough to launch a new DVR in the current marketplace.

In fact, with the VERY CHEAP DVRs that the cable companies are RENTING out, I would think that the current marketplace is even tough for TiVo to compete in and they have already deployed about 1.5 million stand alone and 2.5 million DirecTV boxes.

So, how hard do you believe it would be for LG and Microsoft to launch a new DVR, especially since Microsoft does not appear to have the BACKBONE or the staying power to compete in a hard market. You wonder why LG picked Microsoft. Even with a free lifetime guide subscription, what do you do when Microsoft drops out of the market, since they are providing the guide data?

At that point, the LRM-519 becomes a very expensive BOAT ANCHOR or DOOR STOP.

[grandeau]

30 second skip is easily one of my favorite features, beyond just skipping commercials. I find it the perfect amount of time to jump ahead, when a show gets "slow" without risking missing too much. I find myself reaching for it on the DVD player, only to find the technology lacking there. Why can't all of life have a 30 second skip (and a 7 second rewind)?

[n8.]

30 second skip is easily one of my favorite features, beyond just skipping commercials. I find it the perfect amount of time to jump ahead, when a show gets "slow" without risking missing too much. I find myself reaching for it on the DVD player, only to find the technology lacking there. Why can't all of life have a 30 second skip (and a 7 second rewind)?

I've had it available to me for the past 3 days, I dont really use it. I use the triple fast forward and hit play as soon as I see my program; starts playing right when it should.

[goony]

30 second skip is easily one of my favorite features, beyond just skipping commercials.I find it perfect for watching recorded football games in about 2X time - when a play is whistled done, hit the 30-second skip and they're just about to snap the ball again.

[Dkerr24]

I've had it available to me for the past 3 days, I dont really use it. I use the triple fast forward and hit play as soon as I see my program; starts playing right when it should.

I agree. I find the 2x or 3x FF works just fine to zip through the commercials instead of repeatedly pressing a button to skip ahead 30secs at a pop.

[HiDefGator]

I guess I'm missing the point of this thread. What about 30 second skip is being discussed?

[Hodaka]

I guess I'm missing the point of this thread. What about 30 second skip is being discussed?

if I remember right, there was some question as to why some "other" dvr did not have it and speculation was because of the tv/movie industry and thus why it's still undocumented for Tivo.. i think this post was to basically debunk that idea.

[HiDefGator]

How does pointing out that other dvrs support this feature debunk that idea? Most of the dvrs mentioned don't sell advertising. DirecTV does. It will be harder to get advertisers to give you money to run their commercials if you are also giving all your customers an easy way to skip those same commercials.

[spartanstew]

FiOS's DVR does not have 30 second skip. Just and FYI.


I agree with a few others in that I've had tivo for about 6 years and while I tried the 30 second skip briefly, I much prefer the 3Xff.

Not only is it easier to always start at the beginning of a show, but I also like to see what I'm cruising past so I can occasionally stop for info on a new movie, new series or things of that nature.