Tivo WIRELESS g vs. Netgear (g)

[NewYorkLaw]

I've read, with interest, all the posts about connections and transfer speeds, with comparisions between wired/wireless, paused live tv, etc. NOT being too technically savvy, I cannot understand the comparisons and what the numbers mean to me, as a lowly end-user.

I purchased a Netgear wg-111, (g) adapter that is working properly on my second tivo. My first being hard wired (linksys usb2). The wireless connection seems to fluctuate between 16% (poor) and 66% (good) and I have never seen "excellent." My home network is in "mixed" use mode, because some of my computers are "b" and not capable of "g." My 2nd tivo is one floor up and two rooms across (probably about 40 feet between) from the router/hub.

It appears to me that once I start a transfer the speeds usually "lock" at 66%, maybe the adapter and the wireless hub (microsoft) work better when they're actually doing something other than staying connected (but I don't know).

Anyway, my question - if you would please answer it in English, without all the technical jargon about kbps, etc., is this:

Would the tivo branded wireless gadget work better than the netgear wg111 (g) that I just purchased (which I can still return)? I notice that my transfers of 30 minute shows (800mb "high" qulaity) happens in just about real time, so that I cannot skip commercials but have not experienced any pauses (yet).

I would love the transfers to be a little faster so that we could skip commercials, so for $10 more, I am considering Tivo's gadget and do not mind waiting for it to come back into stock.

Suggestions? Thanks!!
Pete

[atmuscarella]

Pete,

The TiVo wireless adapter has the potential of transferring shows faster than any other wireless adapter because TiVo built it specifically to do so. How much faster? Depends on to many site specific factors for you to know without testing it.

I think most people who have purchase the TiVo wireless adapters are very happy.

Just so you know you do not have to watch a show as it is transferring. Another idea might be to transfer shows at some time other than when you want to watch them.

Good Luck,

atmuscarella

[bmb]

Plain and simple, I would definitely recommend getting the Tivo branded adapter since you can still return the Netgear. And even though the site says Out Of Stock, they have been getting some shipments in as I just got mine the other day (well before the estimated ship date posted on the site).

Order up the Tivo one for sure.

BTW, I wouldn't be overly concerned with the signal strength percentages reported by Tivo. I'm not convinced that they are always accurate.

[CuriousMark]

I would love the transfers to be a little faster so that we could skip commercials, so for $10 more, I am considering Tivo's gadget and do not mind waiting for it to come back into stock.

I would expect the TiVo adapter to be about 10% faster, give or take 5%. Not a whole lot of improvement, but perhaps enough to start skipping commercials after a bit. You will get more speed improvement from the "pause a pre-recorded show on the sending TiVo" trick. Try that first and see how it works for you. One warning, if the sending TiVo's TV can be damaged by burnin from a still picture, be sure it is off while the TiVo is paused.

CuriousMark

[NewYorkLaw]

I hope this is not a silly question (I know there are no stupid questions) but does leaving the sending tivo on pause cause any extra strain (wear & tear) on the sending tivo? I know the hard drive is always spinning, but does pausing for extended periods do anything adverse?

Pete

[CuriousMark]

but does pausing for extended periods do anything adverse?
Not to my knowledge. If you pause live TV it will unpause itself when it reaches the end of the buffer. If you pause a recording it will stay paused until you unpause it yourself. I have left it paused overnight on occasion with no detrimental effects. Others might know better than I do.

If anything, leaving it paused means it might be accessing the disk less, since it no longer has to read back what it just wrote to play it. That readback would probably come from the hard disk RAM buffer, so the effect on the actual disk performance should be about zero. The reduced bus usage for the no longer active readback is probably what helps speed transfers, and probably only will increase throughput for other functions while it is paused and you are not transferring. But who really knows?

CuriousMark

[mrjam2jab]

I would expect the TiVo adapter to be about 10% faster, give or take 5%. Not a whole lot of improvement, but perhaps enough to start skipping commercials after a bit. You will get more speed improvement from the "pause a pre-recorded show on the sending TiVo" trick. Try that first and see how it works for you. One warning, if the sending TiVo's TV can be damaged by burnin from a still picture, be sure it is off while the TiVo is paused.

CuriousMark


I dont get it????? How does one "pause a pre-recorded show on the sending Tivo" during transfer??? When i transfer a show it's not playing on the sending Tivo.... :confused:

Originally Posted by NewYorkLaw
I would love the transfers to be a little faster so that we could skip commercials

Start the transfer...go to the bathroom....get a drink....then go start watching...that should do it for you....

[dcahoe]

What about actually putting the TiVo in standby? I noticed that I can still access the HTTPS/HTTP and TiVoToGo and Galleon info while it is in standby, but havn't experimented with transfer speeds.

[greg_burns]

I dont get it????? How does one "pause a pre-recorded show on the sending Tivo" during transfer??? When i transfer a show it's not playing on the sending Tivo.... :confused:

You don't pause the show you are sending. (at least it doesn't have to be that one) I assume you have to start a show (any show) on the sending Tivo and pause it. Then on the receiving Tivo begin your MRV.

Pausing on the sending Tivo reduces its workload apparently.

What about actually putting the TiVo in standby? I noticed that I can still access the HTTPS/HTTP and TiVoToGo and Galleon info while it is in standby, but havn't experimented with transfer speeds.

From the transfer speeds tests I've read about. Pausing on a pre-recorded show is more effective than putting Tivo into standby. YMMV

[NewYorkLaw]

I don't want to put the tivo into standby, because I like to let it record suggestions.

I know the tivo is always recording, so obviously, pausing a show is not causing any particular extra "load" on the drive, but I thought that having it paused on one spot for a long time while it continued to jump around that spot (recording other stuff & transfering) might cause it damage, long term. Probably just being paranoid.

ANYWAY, that makes me think of a new question:

If the sending tivo is recording something, will that affect the transfer speed?

Pete

[greg_burns]

If the sending tivo is recording something, will that affect the transfer speed?

The more things your Tivo is doing the slower the MRV will be. But I don't think recording a show is going to make it any slower, 'cause it is always recording as you said.

Does make one wonder why standyby mode isn't faster than this pausing a pre-recorded show trick. :confused:

Pausing must help because it doesn't have to "update" the display (just wildly guessing here).

Is there a speed difference in pausing a live TV vs a pre-recorded show? Or is the pre-recorded recommended just so it will stay paused until you unpause it?

[CuriousMark]

Is there a speed difference in pausing a live TV vs a pre-recorded show? Or is the pre-recorded recommended just so it will stay paused until you unpause it?
Yes, Pausing a pre-recorded shows gives a bigger speed boost than pausing live TV does. I have absolutely no clue why. The difference is about 4%

Here are a repeat of my test numbers:

USB200M wired buffering live TV = 288KB/s
TiVo wireless buffering live TV = 282KB/s
TiVo wireless in standby = 364KB/s
TiVo wireless paused live TV = 380KB/s
TiVo wireless paused recording = 394KB/s
*Wireless is multiple hop via WDS, wired was single hop using a bridge.
The TiVo being tested is a 540.

[EDIT:Adding more numbers]

DWL-122 buffering live TV = ~256KB/s
USB200M buffering live TV= 265KB/s
USB200M in Standby mode = 278 KB/s
USB200M w/ live TV paused = 360KB/s
Usb200M w/ recording paused = 420KB/s
*First test approximated due to interference interruption
The TiVo being tested is a 595 Humax DVD burner (DRT-800)

Now those are TiVoToGo transfer rates, not MRV transfers, but the principal is similar and the differences should be similar on a percentage basis. MRV should be faster overall.

My original post was here: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3671834&&#post3671834

CuriousMark

[CuriousMark]

I don't want to put the tivo into standby, because I like to let it record suggestions.
Standby shouldn't stop your suggestions.


If the sending tivo is recording something, will that affect the transfer speed?
It is always recording. What is untested is whether recording quality makes a difference. Will it transfer faster if recording at basic quality vs best quality? I don't know, I haven't looked. Perhaps you could take it as a homework assignment and let us all know. :D

CuriousMark

[NewYorkLaw]

My (non-technical) tests show that (for me, at least) watching shows as they are being transfered in best, high, and medium transfer at very similar rates, not as closely proportionate to their file sizes as I expected. For medium, I seem to get a little extra "skip forward" room (for commercials) that I don't seem to get with high quality transfers. After about 10 minutes of playing a medium quality file while it's being transfered, I have enough room ahead to skip 2 minutes of commercials, where at high I seem to be able to just keep up enough not to have any pausing. At best, I pause a few seconds for every 3 minutes of video streaming, so that I would need to give it about a 10 minute head-start (probably) to avoid pauses for a one hour show.

My transfers seem to be consistent at 66% (good) during the transfers (I peek at the network info screen while I'm transfering).

What surprised me is that the difference was not twice as fast for medium as for best, but maybe if I actually did the math it would be? It just did not feel that way.

Pete

[NewYorkLaw]

I went ahead and placed my order for the backordered tivo adapter.. I hope the wait is not not too long - I feel like a little kid waiting for Santa and it's like Christmas in March!

(I've gotten sooo hooked on Tivo it's not funny!)

Pete

[megazone]

I don't want to put the tivo into standby, because I like to let it record suggestions.TiVos record Suggestions just fine in Standby/Sleep. In fact, they'll do it *faster*. TiVos won't record a Suggestion within 30 minuntes of the remote being used. Except when you put them into Standby/Sleep mode that tells them "I'm done using you" and they can *immediately* record a suggestion without waiting 30 minutes.

Out of habit I *always* put my TiVos to sleep when I'm done.

[NewYorkLaw]

I did not realize that, THANKS.

What's the actual purpose of "sleep" mode?

[greg_burns]

I did not realize that, THANKS.

What's the actual purpose of "sleep" mode?

From the sticky...
Advice from a veteran to a newbie (consolidated)
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=71440

Use Standby to record a show and still watch live tv on another station. Put TiVo in standby, hide the remote, and use your old TV remote to watch what ever you want. You might also use this with babysitters or house sitters so they can just use the standard clicker and not mess up your TIVO recordings. This is dependent on how you have wired up your TiVo. Do a search in the forum for advice.