The Shield "Man Inside" 2/21/06 *spoilers* [Text View]

Skittles

02-21-2006, 11:40 PM

Oh man... I can't believe Claudette's gone. She was probably my favorite character on the show, and she gets her one big crowning achievement in her career, and then.... *tumble*, *crash*, and it's all over.

I'm just in shock right now. If this is the show's final season, they sure will be going out on top.

TiVo Bum

02-21-2006, 11:43 PM

LOL! Jimmy Johnson in the cage saying "Terry" was the one who needed to be in there. Wonder how he wrangled that cameo. :)

Kamakzie

02-22-2006, 12:18 AM

LOL! Jimmy Johnson in the cage saying "Terry" was the one who needed to be in there. Wonder how he wrangled that cameo. :)

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!! I instantly recognized him! Man I hope Claudette isn't dead but it sounded like they thought her neck might of been broken in the fall... :eek:

sfenton

02-22-2006, 01:11 AM

It was good of Vic to tell Corrine to get a lawyer and make a deal.

It is going to bite him hard though. The boys are are going to be very mad when they find out. He promised that she would not testify.

That's the end of one for all and all for one.

vikingguy

02-22-2006, 01:20 AM

Fool Me Twice

02-22-2006, 01:24 AM

I hate waiting till next week. I certainly hope she's not dead. The Claudette-Dutch relationship is my favorite on the show.

Crooks on tv shows always fall for the staged-polaroid trick.

I can't imagine what Vic has planned to protect himself.

The promos for "Thief" that have been playing during "The Shield" look pretty darn good.

Idearat

02-22-2006, 03:04 AM

I still think Vick might pull this off. If his Ex testifies, given what little she really knows, all that will come out is that he handed her a bag of cash to take care of the kids.

While it's a sizeable chunk of money, it doesn't by itself say there was long term corruption by the Strike Team or that they murdered Terry. Ripping off a dealer they busted isn't going to get them life in prison. Vick could even claim he snatched the money on his own and doled it out to the others to buy their silence. Claiming he "did it for the children" he might even get away with just a resignation and quiet retirement.

They could also "rat out" Aceveda and Gilroy ( he's dead and can't complain ) in exchange for leniency. Aceveda setting up his rapist to be killed and then paying a hooker to let him beat her up would really help sink him.

lonwolf615

02-22-2006, 05:21 AM

Vic's got a plan-thought that was obvious, though I have no idea what it is. K's plan of dividing the strike team seems to be working though, and Vic is so big on loyality that he could easily be blindsided by one of his own acting in their own best interest.
Claudette...didn't see that coming at all. I was thinking it was heading towards a confrontation with Dutch where she either says she will always hate him for what he did, or finally has respect for him for doing it. Instead...

lonwolf615

02-22-2006, 05:24 AM

And oh yeah-this show is exhibit #1 in my argument that tv is better than the movies now.

Rob Helmerichs

02-22-2006, 07:52 AM

It was good of Vic to tell Corrine to get a lawyer and make a deal.
Yes, but I also found that a very chilling scene, when he was (with apparent total sincerity) defending his actions. It sounds like he honestly doesn't realize that he is, at heart, evil--that, e.g., murdering a fellow police officer because he was investigating his crimes is somehow justified.

I think Vic is the worst kind of monster--the kind that honestly believes he's one of the good guys. And yet I can't help rooting for him against Kavanaugh!

newsposter

02-22-2006, 08:22 AM

Simply awesome the way claudette played the suspect even in her condition was outstanding. The fall caught me totally off guard I was still on a high from her winning then bam lights out. It is ironic the guy who never talks is the only one who can cover his own tracks. If kavanaugh does not get his man it will be because he got greedy and started to go after acevada also.

I love that capt A is now going to have to be on vics side. (so now we are rooting for 2 bad guys) And I dont get how the bad guy just saying he did the murders would be enough to convict him (just the little part we got) but i guess this is shield, not law and order.

Love how vic had to admit the affair. She didn't seem all that pissed though. She's a very understanding wife with all that went on here.

Skittles

02-22-2006, 09:40 AM

I think Vic is the worst kind of monster--the kind that honestly believes he's one of the good guys. And yet I can't help rooting for him against Kavanaugh!I am right there with you on the first statement, Rob!

It was interesting to see Vic's interaction with the lawyer last night, justifying not only to the lawyer but to *himself* that his actions as the head of the Strike Team were wholly for the greater good and that he's not like all the other bad cops, he's just misunderstood and 'fighting the system'. The whole scene played out very well, and you can see in Vic's eyes that there's a lot of internal struggle going on over the whole thing.

With the second point... I almost (and I'm placing strong emphasis on "almost") want Kavanaugh to win, and put Mackey behind bars... or even better, to see Mackey sacrifice himself to keep the rest of the Strike Team out of trouble. But at the same time, I'd be totally OK with the Strike Team riding off into the sunset, having beaten the system one last time.

I am just so enthralled by the verbal and mental games going on between Kavanaugh and Mackey. It's like a giant Chess game going on in The Barn, and they're both trying to anticipate one another and stay 3 moves ahead.

newsposter

02-22-2006, 09:50 AM

one things for sure...the ATTY will be getting huge fees just camping out at the station all day waiting for the next guy to be called in . I'd let Mr K just keep on calling them in for questioning and make them rack up some huge fees. Then ask where they are getting the money to pay for them.

Bierboy

02-22-2006, 10:06 AM

Did anyone else think Corrine was wired when she and Vic were in the Chinese restaurant?

TiVo Bum

02-22-2006, 10:48 AM

Love how vic had to admit the affair. She didn't seem all that pissed though. She's a very understanding wife with all that went on here.Haven't Vic and Corrine been separated/divorced for much longer than Sofer's been pregnant? Don't think she'd have that much to be pissed off about. It's been over between them for a couple of seasons.

Skittles

02-22-2006, 11:03 AM

Haven't Vic and Corrine been separated/divorced for much longer than Sofer's been pregnant?Yes, but Corrine never knew about the affair Vic was having during their marriage. And she had to find out about it from *Kavanaugh*, of all people.

stark

02-22-2006, 11:16 AM

Haven't Vic and Corrine been separated/divorced for much longer than Sofer's been pregnant? Don't think she'd have that much to be pissed off about. It's been over between them for a couple of seasons.
But they were having an affair when Vic and Corrine were still together. That is what Kavanaugh told Corrine that got her the most shaken up.

That Vic isn't able to out and out deny that his the baby's father also got to Corrine.

newsposter

02-22-2006, 11:35 AM

Haven't Vic and Corrine been separated/divorced for much longer than Sofer's been pregnant? Don't think she'd have that much to be pissed off about. It's been over between them for a couple of seasons.

um, i think there's a twinge even years after when an ex finds out another is preg etc. But you'd have to take a woman's poll to be sure

DanaMac223

02-22-2006, 02:00 PM

jubrand

02-22-2006, 02:15 PM

Only 4 eps left. It is going to be a long summer. So many twists and turns in this one its going to be hard to figure out the end, although Shawn Ryan has said that Vic won't come out of this scott free. I will definetly miss this series when it is over.

On a side note. Did anyone else wonder if Dutch might be "copy catting" this killer when the last victim had her hair cut like Claudettes? That would make for an interesting twist.....

Dutch just keeps getting more and more creepy with his knowledge of serial killers' techniques and mannerisms. I suppose he could be just studying it to make himself a better detective, but after is speech last night about Cleevon (sp?), and his cat incident from a few seasons ago, I'm really starting to think that he's out there killing too, just for the thrill and to see if he can get away with it.

Kamakzie

02-22-2006, 02:41 PM

So 4 eps and then a hiatus? When does it pick up again?

Frash

02-22-2006, 03:46 PM

I'm interested to see how the strike team plays up the angle of Kavanaugh and his wedding ring he still wears.

The rest of the guys are going to be pissed when they find out that Vic gave his wife the OK to spill whatever she knows in trade for an immunity deal. Whether she knows much or not, it won't go over too well.

Somebody will get those pictures of Aceveda and I'm guessing it'll be Vic. With those pictures in his possession, he'll be able to force the councilman to use all his resources to bury Kavanaugh.

jeff92k7

02-22-2006, 03:51 PM

I think Vic is the worst kind of monster--the kind that honestly believes he's one of the good guys. And yet I can't help rooting for him against Kavanaugh!

I was rooting for him up until his little tearful conversation with his attorney about how he was bad but he's not anymore and he still wants to be a cop. After seeing that, I hope he has to pay for everything. It just made me sick to watch that and listen to his dialog.

I used to like him but not anymore. It was the equivalent of, "I murdered someone but it has been a few days so I shouldn't go to prison." It even made me more frustrated when the lawyer chick bought his little fake sob story. She was all about "I'm not defending guilty people" and "I only help out scumbags that aren't really guilty this time", but now she's done a 180 and knows Vic is guilty but is still helping him.

BTW, can anyone post screenshot of JJ in the cage? I missed that and already erased the episode.

Jeff

tetspa

02-22-2006, 04:12 PM

Regardless of what happens to the IA investigation (let's say the Strike team gets off scott free)...IRS will descend on them like a bird of prey. The ex-wife will co-operate because she "knows or should have known" the money was not declared income". The IRS will also pressure the innocent 4'th member to rat out the other 3. It will be interesting if Shane turns on Vic, but that will probably not happen.

I guess VIC could say he won all the cash in a crap game, but unless he declared it on his income tax form, he will still be toast with the feds.

Rob Helmerichs

02-22-2006, 04:14 PM

I was rooting for him up until his little tearful conversation with his attorney about how he was bad but he's not anymore and he still wants to be a cop. After seeing that, I hope he has to pay for everything. It just made me sick to watch that and listen to his dialog.
And he never even really said he was bad! He actually justified his actions, and then in effect said "But I've stopped doing it anyway."

jeff92k7

02-22-2006, 04:16 PM

...IRS will descend on them like a bird of prey.

It's funny how the IRS is going to suddenly show up on every show and make everyone's life miserable. Jack Bauer is going to get visited by them, the strike team, etc....

The next thing you know, Barney is going to get a visit from the IRS for not including a line about them in the "I love you" song.

bnbhoha

02-22-2006, 07:44 PM

R us sure only 4 episodes left. I think that would make a total of 10 this season. My understanding was 13 now and 13 next year for a total of 26.

Idearat

02-22-2006, 08:27 PM

Regardless of what happens to the IA investigation (let's say the Strike team gets off scott free)...IRS will descend on them like a bird of prey. The ex-wife will co-operate because she "knows or should have known" the money was not declared income". .

IANATA ( I am not a tax attorney ) but I'd guess she didn't try to deduct 65k of therapy from her taxes. If all the money really did go to the doctors and schools for the kids there won't be anywhere near the tax liability as if it was the whole 65k.

File an amended return, take huge deductions, pay a few penalties.

Based on what he's been able to weasel out of up till now, I can still see Vic confessing to skimming from a drug dealer they busted to pay for his kid's medical bills. All his Ex will testify is getting the money from him after the kids were diagnosed .He'd get in trouble, but might not go to prison. It doesn't make them any closer to getting busted for the Fed's murder unless Kavenaugh uses this to pressure another strike team member.

tinman23

02-22-2006, 10:33 PM

Best tv show ever. Vic will get over. Don't foget about the video of Acevada beating down teh guy in the terrogation room. Vic gave it back to him , but I'm sure he has a copy ,,, just in case. AS for not rooting for Vic becasue he killed a cop? What would u do if faced with prison?? Now maybe they could have straightened up for a while til IAD got off thir backs, but I guess Vic did not have the patience for that.

And I thin Dutch is killing on the side.

lonwolf615

02-23-2006, 04:00 AM

AS for not rooting for Vic becasue he killed a cop? What would u do if faced with prison?? .
.

I don't think I'd kill a cop...

tbowie

02-23-2006, 06:50 AM

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/3320/vlcsnap17387759lb.jpg
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/1716/vlcsnap17389268yp.jpg

jeff92k7

02-23-2006, 08:46 AM

Oh, I see....That Jimmie Johnson. Yeah, I saw him and thought he looked familiar.

I thought the Jimmy Johnson that was referred to was the recent Daytona 500 winner, not the football coach.

<slaps self for being so stupid>

windracer

02-23-2006, 09:49 AM

I thought the Jimmy Johnson that was referred to was the recent Daytona 500 winner, not the football coach.
You're not alone. I went back to re-watch this scene after reading about it here because I thought the same thing.

mdsutherland

02-23-2006, 10:13 AM

I'm so torn on what I want to see happen and they have made it possible for so many things to happen. I am happy to see they are bringing back Antwon Mitchell. He and Kavanaugh should have some amazing scenes together.

I don’t think Vic had his wife’s best interest in mind when they met. He needs Corrine on his side and I think he got that to happen.

mdsutherland

02-23-2006, 10:16 AM

I don't understand why everyone thinks Dutch is out killing people. Maybe I have blinders on but I really don't see it. Maybe with Claudette's death something will click but right now he just seems to be a uncool detective trying to fit in to the Barn.

Bierboy

02-23-2006, 10:24 AM

...I am happy to see they are bringing back Antwon Mitchell. He and Kavanaugh should have some amazing scenes together....Is that for certain? They mentioned him in this ep, but nothing I've seen or heard indicates he's coming back.

mdsutherland

02-23-2006, 10:30 AM

Is that for certain? They mentioned him in this ep, but nothing I've seen or heard indicates he's coming back.

They showed him in the previews for next week.

crowfan

02-23-2006, 10:30 AM

That was a spoiler from the previews.

mdsutherland

02-23-2006, 10:33 AM

Sorry about the spoiler. I corrected it.

newsposter

02-23-2006, 10:37 AM

So 4 eps and then a hiatus? When does it pick up again?

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3536992&&#post3536992

Leading off things in January will be the fifth season premiere of "The Shield." The series is expected to run for 11 episodes, after which it will take a break until either the fall or next January (depending upon how season three of "Rescue Me" and presumably the fourth season of "Nip/Tuck" are scheduled) when the latter half of its 21-episode season will air.

TAsunder

02-23-2006, 10:53 AM

And oh yeah-this show is exhibit #1 in my argument that tv is better than the movies now.

You must watch a lot of bad movies.

I never thought I would say this, but I think the Shield is as good as any show on HBO this season, which is saying a lot considering that I used to believe Deadwood and The Wire were hundreds of times better than any other TV shows.

I did not see Claudette's faint coming. I was thinking that something bad was going to happen in the interrogation, or that she would give up even after going back in. The latter would have made an equally interesting story to what actually happened, maybe.

crowfan

02-23-2006, 11:11 AM

Dutch will be strangling more than cats now. He pushed Claudette to that. He will snap.

Fool Me Twice

02-23-2006, 11:42 AM

I don't understand why everyone thinks Dutch is out killing people. Maybe I have blinders on but I really don't see it.

I don't see it either. He was aggressive during the interrogation because Claudette was blowing it. He had to push her in order to get the confession.

Now, Dutch probably enjoys going head to head against a serial killer more than he should. Fighting and winning against a monster feeds his ego. He can't compete with Vic and the others physically, so he has to establish his masculinity in other ways.

Since the main theme of this show is that those who fight evil can become evil themselves (or at least damaged by it in some way), I won't be surprised if Dutch does eventually kill someone. But, if that happens it won't be a complete innocent. It'll be someone who "deserves it"--like a child murderer or rapist.

And we'll see Dutch try to justify his intellectual curiosity into the murderer's mind with the fact that he uses that knowledge to take bad guys off the street. This will parallel with Vic's decent.

But, right now, he's just being a good profiler/interrogator.

Bierboy

02-23-2006, 12:00 PM

They showed him in the previews for next week. Great...I don't watch the previews...thanks :(

Please, please, please people, remember to spoilerize the previews!

mdsutherland

02-23-2006, 12:04 PM

Great...I don't watch the previews...thanks :(

Please, please, please people, remember to spoilerize the previews!

Already said sorry and corrected the problem in the first 5 minutes of posting it. Not sure what else you want me to do.

Bierboy

02-23-2006, 12:05 PM

Already said sorry and corrected the problem in the first 5 minutes of posted it. Not sure what else you want me to do.
I understand mistakes...my comment was directed in general, not specifically toward you. I've screwed up before, too :rolleyes:

jeff92k7

02-23-2006, 12:25 PM

I won't be surprised if Dutch does eventually kill someone. But, if that happens it won't be a complete innocent. It'll be someone who "deserves it"--like a child murderer or rapist.

I kind of disagree. I think he is the type that would become a thrill killer - doing it because he can and to see if he can get away with it rather than being pushed over the edge by needing to inflict justice himself. That whole cat thing just gives that impression. The cat obviously didn't deserve it (although the ones that poop in my yard do) but he did it just to see if he could and what it was like. I think he'll eventually graduate to something larger; another animal maybe, but more likely a human. He'll use his knowledge of killers and his supposed murderer psychology lessons to see what he can do.

Since he probably knows what's going on with Vic and the strike team from all his eavesdropping, I think it would be very interesting to have Vic find out about Dutch's murder spree and see Dutch threaten to reveal all about Vic's issues if Vic reveals his. It would be cool to see Vic and Dutch at each other's throats like in the first season but on a much more serious level rather than the childish prank level.

Jeff

windracer

02-23-2006, 12:25 PM

Please, please, please people, remember to spoilerize the previews!
Make sure you don't subscribe to the threads then ... the spoiler tags don't translate into the e-mail notifications, which show the body of the message just posted, so the spoilers are visible.

TAsunder

02-23-2006, 12:30 PM

ravonaf

02-23-2006, 12:38 PM

There are a lot of people who don't see animals the same way as humans. Plus the cat had been harrassing him for a while, and was seemingly feral. As a cat lover I cringe at the thought of that scene, but it doesn't mean that I think he is murderer material.

I know it's been awhile. But remember the look on Dutch's face while he was killing that cat. There was something very creepy there. It's wasn't about killing an annoying animal. He wanted to look into it's eyes when it died to see what he could see.

newsposter

02-23-2006, 01:40 PM

this capt was the same guy that watched the shooting at the car wash right?

TAsunder

02-23-2006, 01:46 PM

this capt was the same guy that watched the shooting at the car wash right?

Yep, same guy. Also the guy who dutch got into a fight with in the parking lot.

Bierboy

02-23-2006, 03:09 PM

Make sure you don't subscribe to the threads then ... the spoiler tags don't translate into the e-mail notifications, which show the body of the message just posted, so the spoilers are visible.I don't but thanks for the heads-up.

Fool Me Twice

02-23-2006, 04:54 PM

I kind of disagree. I think he is the type that would become a thrill killer - doing it because he can and to see if he can get away with it rather than being pushed over the edge by needing to inflict justice himself. The reason I disagree with this is that it is clear that the writers have done their homework on criminal psychology, since they have Dutch using language and methodology of real profilers. The writers would have to know that a person just doesn't "snap" and become a serial killer; it's a long process that can be traced to very early childhood. Dutch just doesn't have it in him, from what we've seen, to start killing people. That's why the only way I can imagine him taking a human life is if it's a bad guy; maybe one whose head he's been inside; someone who "deserves it".

lonwolf615

02-24-2006, 01:47 PM

I tend to agree, but we know so little of Dutch's backstory or his personal life that it would seem possible he could be a killer. Not that I want him to be or think the story will go that way. Just that if it did it would seem plausable...
Maybe he'll kill K? :)

Rob Helmerichs

02-24-2006, 01:51 PM

newsposter

02-24-2006, 02:39 PM

dont forget about the porn!

TAsunder

02-24-2006, 03:33 PM

Of course they didn't put the cat thing in just for kicks. But that doesn't mean they put it in as foreshadowing for things to come.

ravonaf

02-24-2006, 04:30 PM

Of course they didn't put the cat thing in just for kicks. But that doesn't mean they put it in as foreshadowing for things to come.

It's either for kicks or foreshadowing, what else could it be? It is possible they let the story die. But I doubt it. This show rarely lets story lines die. Expect something sinister to happen with Dutch before the end of the show.

jradford

02-24-2006, 04:36 PM

It's either for kicks or foreshadowing, what else could it be? It is possible they let the story die. But I doubt it. This show rarely lets story lines die. Expect something sinister to happen with Dutch before the end of the show.
I disagree. The cat scene could just as easily be a way to show the beginning of Dutch's obsession with serial killers. Over the past two seasons, we've seen Dutch become a pretty damn good detective, and the cat scene helped show how far Dutch was willing to go to become this good.

I DO think it could be in there to possibly foreshadow his decline into becoming a potential murderer after Claudette's death, but I think it's incorrect to say that the cat scene is either that or pointless, when it has already served a significant point, in my mind.

Rob Helmerichs

02-24-2006, 04:52 PM

I disagree. The cat scene could just as easily be a way to show the beginning of Dutch's obsession with serial killers. Over the past two seasons, we've seen Dutch become a pretty damn good detective, and the cat scene helped show how far Dutch was willing to go to become this good.

I DO think it could be in there to possibly foreshadow his decline into becoming a potential murderer after Claudette's death, but I think it's incorrect to say that the cat scene is either that or pointless, when it has already served a significant point, in my mind.
But I doubt that "Oooh, Dutch is nasty," and nothing ever comes of it, is a storytelling decision these writers would be cheesy enough to make.

jradford

02-24-2006, 05:16 PM

But I doubt that "Oooh, Dutch is nasty," and nothing ever comes of it, is a storytelling decision these writers would be cheesy enough to make.
I agree with you there. If that's how my interpretation of the scene in my previous post comes across, than I need to work on my posts.

The scene showed a totally different side of Dutch, a very creepy and dark side. It showed a side of him that made it believable that he was able to understand serial killers as well as they have shown him doing these past two years. This is not the same as me saying the scene shows "Dutch is mean."

I tend to agree that we might see Dutch go off the deep end, at some point, and that this scene, if it happens, will be the foreshadowing. However, if he DOESN'T go off the deep end, I think it's completely unfair to the writers to claim that the scene was pointless and call it a "cheesy" scene.

Rob Helmerichs

02-24-2006, 05:21 PM

The scene showed a totally different side of Dutch, a very creepy and dark side. It showed a side of him that made it believable that he was able to understand serial killers as well as they have shown him doing these past two years. This is not the same as me saying the scene shows "Dutch is mean."

I tend to agree that we might see Dutch go off the deep end, at some point, and that this scene could most definitely be looked at as foreshadowing. However, if he DOESN'T go off the deep end, I think it's completely unfair to the writers to claim that the scene was pointless and call it a "cheesy" scene.
But somebody who would strangle a cat has issues that go way beyond being able to understand serial killers. The man is sick, and they haven't done anything with that yet. Which is why I am 100% convinced that we haven't seen the last of the cat storyline, whether it has to do with Dutch being a killer or not. And why I think that if what we've seen is what we get, then it IS a cheesy writing decision (which is why I'm 100% convinced; these are not cheesy writers).

It doesn't HAVE to be the fall of Dutch, either--it could be about his salvation.

Kevdog

02-24-2006, 07:59 PM

I think Dutch is going to strangle the not new Latina cop...

DanaMac223

02-24-2006, 10:02 PM

Before or after her training partner beats the crap out of her?? :D

jubrand

02-25-2006, 10:16 PM

I'm sure they didn't put the cat-strangling thing in there just for the heck of it, and they haven't followed up on it yet, so I'm sure one way or another Dutch's burgeoning psychosis will come back into play eventually...

Well, either way, one of these weeks there's going to be a "previously on The Shield" that's going to show Dutch strangling that cat, and then we'll get our answer.