Automatic soft padding running on the TiVo (new version)

[maxwells_daemon]

sanderton (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/member.php?u=13849) suggested I start a new thread, since the old one had grown pretty big (1169 posts!). I attach a new version which includes a number of enhancements and minor bug fixes (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/maxwells.daemon/tivo/downloads/endpad-changes.txt). EndPad is the brainchild and work of Stuart Anderton, and I'd like add my thanks to him for this great program.

EndPad is a program which runs in the background on the TiVo and extends the recording time of shows (start and end) by the amount you specify if, and only if, that would not cause a clash with another recording. This means that you need no longer juggle Season Passes with extra recording time which cause other SPs to be missed.

A particular bugbear in the UK is BBC 2, which frequently runs 2 minutes late, but also has a lot of shows you might wish to record running back-to-back. Keeping track of which of these shows was the last one, which needed padding, and which was an earlier one, which didn't, was a nightmare, especially as the shows on BBC 2 usually have different season durations, so it keeps changing! EndPad sorts BBC 2 (and ITV 1) out for you.

Stuart took LJ's noreddot as his inspiration - rather than try to get everything done in advance, this program only actually adds the end padding to the programme being recorded 5 minutes before the end of the recording, and adds start padding just 1 minute before it is due.

This "just in time" automated approach has many advantages:

The recordings remain part of their Season Pass with all other settings completely intact.
New recordings and new SPs do not trigger clashes with padding, because the padding is not there until almost the end of the recording.
Suggestions get padded too (something many have asked for).
It can run from rc.sysinit.author, so is completely automated with no user input needed.

In fact, it's as close to TiVo implemented soft padding as I think you are going to get until we get v5 in the UK :) !

Notes


If the full amount of padding cannot be added, EndPad will add as much as it can. End padding on a show has priority over start padding on the next one. Padding you set manually (or in a Season Pass) has priority over both (although EndPad will try and increase the user-set padding to the soft level if it can).

If you want to see what it is up to, you can view the logs through the Logs module of TiVoWeb. Detailed logs are in /var/log/endpad.log, with a summary of all actions in /var/log/endpad.msg.

By default, when EndPad looks at the next recording it takes suggestions as being disposable and deletes them to accommodate end padding if needed. If two back-to-back suggestions are scheduled, EndPad pads the first one and deletes the second. You can use the -sugeq switch to turn off the deletion of suggestions.

If you try and add a recording as it is actually starting and get the clash warning because of EndPad's padding of the previous show, manually stop the current recording before adding the new one. TiVo's built in conflict resolution can result in the whole prior programme being deleted in some circumstances.

EndPad has the ability to alter the recording quality of any suggestions. This allows you to, say, record suggestions at Medium while leaving the default at Best, making setting up new recordings faster. Use the optional -sugqual switch with values of 0 (Basic), 40 (Medium), 75 (High) or 100 (Best).

To get the best out of EndPad, your Season Passes should not set any hard padding themselves. That way TiVo will be able to operate with the lowest number of clashes. Sanderton's PC-based SoftPad utility (http://archive.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?threadid=135029) has an option to remove all padding from existing SPs if you have a lot to go through.

It will work on all TiVos on both sides of the pond, but will not be fully optimal on DirecTivos as it does not attempt to use the second tuner for extending shows. falconx has produced a version which works with dual tuners - unfortunately forum rules mean I can't link to it on the database of deals. The thread id is /forum/showthread.php?t=31854 .


Installation and Example Usage

Download the attached zip file (or get it from here (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/maxwells.daemon/tivo/downloads/endpad-1.5.4.zip), or as a tarball (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/maxwells.daemon/tivo/downloads/endpad-1.5.4.tar.gz)) and extract endpad.tcl. Copy that to the TiVo using binary-mode FTP. Then:chmod 755 endpad.tclIt can be run with, eg.,./endpad.tcl -e 10In this case, EndPad will try to add 10 minutes padding to the end of all programmes, but only if this does not cause a clash with another scheduled recording.

Stop with:./endpad.tcl -stop
To start EndPad every time the TiVo starts up, add the following line to /etc/rc.d/rc.sysinit.author:-/var/hack/endpad.tcl -e 10 -auto >> /dev/null &
See the readme (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/maxwells.daemon/tivo/downloads/endpad-readme.txt) for details of all the options: you can also add (positive or negative) start padding, and define channel, time, or programme-specific settings. You can also get a quick summary with./endpad.tcl -help

EndPad is entirely free to use, but next time its saves you a verbal beating thanks to a caught ending that would otherwise be missed, please consider an appropriate donation to Cancer Research through this link:
http://www.justgiving.com/brigidphillips
Please put "EndPad" in the comment.

Please note that there are restrictions on distribution - read the readme (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/maxwells.daemon/tivo/downloads/endpad-readme.txt).

This post will always contain the most up to date version and instructions (with a summary of changes here (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/maxwells.daemon/tivo/downloads/endpad-changes.txt)).

Tim.

[tym]

In the previous thread, it was asked...
Is that possible?

Eastenders to start 1 minute late, corrie to always run over 1 minute?

This is possible using the current endpad via negative padding. You can specify how much to extend a program by - thereby encroaching into the following recording. Using an enpad.config this can be defined for particular times, channels and/or programmes. It can also be defined globally via the command line.

I realize that the "negative padding" terminology is a little misleading (the following program has negative start padding added to allow for endpad of the current program) - it could equally be called "forced padding".

Tym

[swarrans]

Hope it's OK to post a new question here..
The previous version of Endpad I had running stopped working last Thursday for "no apparent reason", so I thought I would take the opportunity of updating it to this new version, but I still have the problem:
It seems that it will not let me "chmod 755" it (Windows XP command line says "Invalid Command") I was careful to make sure I did the transfer in binary and I'm assuming the problem goes back to what stopped the original working on Thursday - any ideas please?

Simon

[ericd121]

From the ReadMe
negpad W Start the following program late to allow W minutes endpad
maxneg M Maximum late starting for matching program is M minutesCould you explain the maxneg option?

How is it different from negpad?

[zippy7272]

In the previous thread, it was asked...


This is possible using the current endpad via negative padding. You can specify how much to extend a program by - thereby encroaching into the following recording. Using an enpad.config this can be defined for particular times, channels and/or programmes. It can also be defined globally via the command line.

I realize that the "negative padding" terminology is a little misleading (the following program has negative start padding added to allow for endpad of the current program) - it could equally be called "forced padding".

Tym

Wahoo! - missed this until now. Thank you, will try it later. Monday of course is a good test date. :D

[maxwells_daemon]

Hope it's OK to post a new question here..Of course. That's what this thread is for.
It seems that it will not let me "chmod 755" it (Windows XP command line says "Invalid Command") I was careful to make sure I did the transfer in binary and I'm assuming the problem goes back to what stopped the original working on Thursday - any ideas please?You run the "chmod 755" command on the TiVo, after transferring the endpad.tcl file there. chmod is a Unix/Linux command, not a standard Windows one.

Tim.

[Fozzie]

From the ReadMe
negpad W Start the following program late to allow W minutes endpad
maxneg M Maximum late starting for matching program is M minutesCould you explain the maxneg option?

How is it different from negpad?
This is my understanding:

negpad - set for specific programme(s)/channels/times; causes any immediately following recording to be started late.

maxneg - again, set for specific programme(s)/channels/times; the maximum late starting allowed for these programme(s).

[swarrans]

You run the "chmod 755" command on the TiVo, after transferring the endpad.tcl file there. chmod is a Unix/Linux command, not a standard Windows one.

Tim.
Thanks for your offer of help Tim. I think I may have misled you as to what I did - I transferred the file to Tivo via the Windows XP Command Prompt ftp window and then tried to change the file permissions via chmod within Tivo. However, your reply did actually make me realise what I'd forgotten to do which was to Telnet Tivo first and remount the drive as writeable - so thanks!

All working fine again now (although I'm not sure why it stopped working in the first place).

Simon

[zippy7272]

Didn't get chance to add this until after the 1st (and always the most problematic) Street.

Thisis what I've added - hopefully correctly? (will see in half hour...)

-s 2 -e 5
-p "Coronation Street" -n 1 -s 2

[zippy7272]

Didn't get chance to add this until after the 1st (and always the most problematic) Street.

Thisis what I've added - hopefully correctly? (will see in half hour...)

-s 2 -e 5
-p "Coronation Street" -n 1 -s 2

Damn! - didn't work for me.

I was hoping (god this sounds sooo sad! :D ) for corrie to record for 31 mins (after eastenders) then for 'Northern Lights' to record for 59mins (+5 mins)

But corrie was usual 30 mins :(

Any thoughts?

[...coolstream]

Damn! - didn't work for me.

I was hoping (god this sounds sooo sad! :D ) for corrie to record for 31 mins (after eastenders) then for 'Northern Lights' to record for 59mins (+5 mins)

But corrie was usual 30 mins :(

Any thoughts?
Is it possible that your Season Passes are set with padding also which would be messing about with the eventual recording lengths?

[zippy7272]

Is it possible that your Season Passes are set with padding also which would be messing about with the eventual recording lengths?

I checked and non of my season passes have padding.

:(

Thanks for the suggestion though!

[Fozzie]

It would be useful if you could list the programmes that you were trying to record (incl. channel, start & end times etc) and the contents of your endpad.log & endpad.msg

Also, did you restart endpad after changing the config file? You may need to for the changes to take effect.

[zippy7272]

It would be useful if you could list the programmes that you were trying to record (incl. channel, start & end times etc) and the contents of your endpad.log & endpad.msg

Also, did you restart endpad after changing the config file? You may need to for the changes to take effect.

I'd set to record
Eastenders 20:00 to 20:30 BBC1
Coronation Street 20:30 to 21:00 ITV1
Northern Lights 21:00 to 22:00 ITV1

I stopped & restarted (a few times) endpad between 20:00 and 20:25(ish)

I'll attach the log /msg in a short while...

[Fozzie]

A quick thought:

I'm assuming you wanted Corrie to finish late and NL to start late? I notice that they are on the same channel and so I think this part of the readme is probably relevant:

-f Q Q=0 or 1. If 1, force negative padding even if no channel change

Unless you started endpad with this option set to 1, you would not have got any negative padding due to there being no channel change between the two recordings in question.

[zippy7272]

:eek:

There was a big clue at the top of the log file. Something about version ......... 1.4.1

I hadn't changed my hackman.cfg file to point at the new folder I've placed the 1.5 version in.

so it was still runnin the old version!

:Embarrassed: - Zippy7272 leaves stage exit left!

will update on Wednesday...

[Fozzie]

I bet you're not the first to have done that and certainly won't be the last :) Fingers crossed for Wednesday.

(BTW, did you have force negative padding set?)

[zippy7272]

Yes, I update the force option and.....IT WORKS. ok no shock for anyone else.

I'll now create a few more enpad settings, rather than the loose 1 I created to test things.

Thanks

[aleks]

Please forgive if this isn't the right topic, do point me at the right one. Could someone please explain how to add "/var/hack/endpad.tcl -e 10 -auto >> /dev/null &" to "/etc/rc.d/rc.sysinit.author".

Do I need a unix text editor (and where do I find a TiVo friendly one) or should I FTP it to and from my PC (do I need to chmod anything?)

Thanks

[Ian_m]

Please forgive if this isn't the right topic, do point me at the right one. Could someone please explain how to add "/var/hack/endpad.tcl -e 10 -auto >> /dev/null &" to "/etc/rc.d/rc.sysinit.author".

Do I need a unix text editor (and where do I find a TiVo friendly one) or should I FTP it to and from my PC (do I need to chmod anything?)

ThanksOr use Sandertons TiVoWeb startup editor, so don't need to actually edit anything on the read only partition.

[cwaring]

The former is the better idea. If you've followed previous threads and instructions you should have 'joe' already installed on your Tivo. This is the better tool for editing Tivos text-based files as it doesn't add any CRs or LFs as something like Windows Notepad does.

so, from memory (and I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong :))

Telnet into Tivo and type


cd /etc
cd rc.d
cp rc.sysinith.author rc.sysinit.author.backup
joe rc.sysinit.author


Then, when in Joe, move to the bottom of the file and enter the command, as you typed it, there. Then press [Ctrl+K] then [x]. You may then wish to re-boot for the command to take effect immediately.

I think that's right :D

[sanderton]

One little typo (sysinith), and you'd have to set the root partition to read/write first with

mount -o remount,rw /

[Ian_m]

And remember to unset it when finsihed....

mount -o remount,ro /

[Fozzie]

Yes, I update the force option and.....IT WORKS.Good news :)

[Fozzie]

Is there a bug in the endpad.log creation:

I've started endpad with:

/var/hack/endpad.tcl -s 1 -e 4 -n 0 -f 0 -tz 0 -sugqual 75 -auto >> /dev/null &

and ps ax gives:

/tvbin/tivosh /var/hack/endpad.tcl -s 1 -e 4 -n 0 -f 0 -tz 0 -sugqual 75 -auto -run

but endpad.log has:

startpad 1 endpad 4 negpad 0 forceneg 0 maxneg -1 sugeq 1 sugqual 75

Shouldn't sugeq say '0'? I know that with back to back suggestions, the second one is being cancelled to pad the first, because endpad.msg has things like:

Thursday 10:29:00 : Deleting suggestion {Holby City} on UKGLD1 to make room for 60 seconds startpad of Mythbusters on DISCOV

[sanderton]

Looks like a bug; the default is set to sugeq=1, but there's no way to set sugeq=0!

array set defopt {startpad 0 endpad 0 sugqual -1 sugeq 1 negpad 0 maxneg -1 forceneg 0}

Hey, a bug, and this time I don't have to fix it. Cool! :)

[PhilG]

This is a SUPERB piece of code! I was put off the original Endpad by needing to set up more than just an endpad script (I can't remember what scared me - I just remember being "concerned"!)

Anyway, this is such a simple install and, so far, is doing exactly what it should. However, I have yet to edit rc.sysinit.author, as that is something else that I never feel 100%V safe with (what a wimp eh?)

Anyway, Thanks sanderton for something that even my techno-phobe wife thinks is neat!

[tym]

Also, did you restart endpad after changing the config file? You may need to for the changes to take effect.You don't need to restart endpad - it will automatically reload the config file if you change it. The endpad.log will report the new config and if any issues will found.

Tim

[PhilG]

Hmm

It doesn't seem to matter HOW many time I read the readme, I still can't get my head around what the -auto switch does (and what would happen if you didn't specify it in sysinit.author)?

[aleks]

Following up to my question about editing rc.sysinit.author - I have found joe, unzipped and FTP'd to /var/hack

But the cp command doesn't work because there is no such file in the /etc/rc.d directory. There is an rc.sysinit though

Should I just create rc.sysinit.author with one line reading "/var/hack/endpad.tcl -e 10 -auto >> /dev/null &"

Many thanks

[sanderton]

Yes, exactly so.

[tym]

It doesn't seem to matter HOW many time I read the readme, I still can't get my head around what the -auto switch does (and what would happen if you didn't specify it in sysinit.author)?If you don't specify it, there is a chance that endpad will not start on boot (which would be a bad thing). The -auto switch removes any existing pid/lock file. If you don't use it and there is a lock file and a process with the same pid as endpad last used then endpad will think there is another copy running and quit.

Tim

[PhilG]

NOW it's clear!

Many thanks (and -auto added swfitly!)

[scary_uk]

Like many I've waited for this release of endpad, as it seems less complicated than the previous.

I've gone for quite a basic:
/var/hack/endpad.tcl -s 2 -e 5 -auto

But can't get it to run after a re-boot.

My rc.sysinit.author is as follows:

/var/hack/tivoweb-wml-beta2/tivoweb
/var/hack/tivoweb-wml-beta2
/var/hack/tivoweb-wml-beta2/tivoweb
/var/hack/tivoweb-wml-beta2/endpad.tcl
/var/hack/iicsetw 0x8C 0x38 20 0x39 20 &
/var/hack/tivoweb-tcl/tivoweb
/var/hack/endpad.tcl -s 2 -e 5 -auto

[Fozzie]

Trying to run tivoweb 3 times and endpad twice plus a folder (?) at startup doesn't look too good?!

Plus (from the readme) you've missed off ' >> /dev/null &' from the end of the endpad startup command (whichever one you decide to leave in).

And, I'd put a ' &' at the end of the tivoweb startup command (whichever one you decide to leave in).

Also, I don't think the '&' at the end of the iicsetw command is doing anything because it is not a script that is running.

[scary_uk]

I think it's an rc.sysinit.author that's passed thru several upgrades in hard discs.

what about.


/var/hack/tivoweb-tcl/tivoweb &
/var/hack/endpad.tcl -s 2 -e 5 -auto >> /dev/null &
/var/hack/iicsetw 0x8C 0x38 20 0x39 20

I don't have joe on my tivo......can i pull the file across as binary via ftp and edit it on notepad?

[Fozzie]

Looks better :) I'm not sure about notepad but do know that editpad lite (free download) is fine.

Edit: Or stick this on.

[scary_uk]

I'm downloading editpad as we speak.

I bought Tivo on day one in the UK and I kind of dip in and out of doing things to it, so anything i've previously learnt, i've forgotten when i come to work on it again.

Fired that over to the tivo, re-boot underway!

Padding.....nice!

[Fozzie]

Good stuff :)

Don't forget, you can use the endpad.config file to define the startup options as well as any combination of channel/programme/time specific options, plus negative padding :)

[sanderton]

Oh the irony of people waiting for this version, which is actually the most complicated ever with it's sophisticated config file, because the old one was too complicated!

[PhilG]

Something rather bizarre has happened to my endpad.msg file this week

It now looks like THIS (according to Tivoweb):

/var/log/endpad.msg/
Sunday 16:55:00 : Added 300 seconds end padding to {Stargate SG-1} on SKYONE
Sunday 18:55:00 : Added 300 seconds end padding to {The Simpsons} on SKYONE
Monday 12:25:00 : Added 300 seconds end padding to {Judge Judy} on ITV2
Monday 21:56:09 : Added 300 seconds end padding to {Extraordinary People} on FIVE
Wednesday 17:55:00 : Added 900 seconds end padding to {World Cup Biathlon} on EURGB
Thursday 09:25:00 : Added 900 seconds end padding to {World Cup Biathlon} on EURGB
dded 300 seconds end padding to {Judge Judy} on ITV2
Wednesday 15:25:00 : Added 300 seconds end padding to {The Mouse on the Moon} on C4
Thursday 12:25:00 : Added 300 seconds end padding to {Judge Judy} on ITV2

Notice the partial line that starts "dded 300 seconds ....."
Also, the entries are NOT in date/time sequence

Before I stop and restart endpad, could this be a symptom of something more sinister??

[Fozzie]

Oh the irony of people waiting for this version, which is actually the most complicated ever with it's sophisticated config file, because the old one was too complicated!Yeah, it made me chuckle too :)

Having said that, negative padding for the couple of programmes that I use it on seems to be working great.

[Fozzie]

...Notice the partial line that starts "dded 300 seconds ....."
Also, the entries are NOT in date/time sequence

Before I stop and restart endpad, could this be a symptom of something more sinister??It would be better if you posted (as an attachment) the actual log file...

[maxwells_daemon]

Something rather bizarre has happened to my endpad.msg file this week...
That is odd. Can you log into the TiVo and list the file (cat /var/log/endpad.msg)? That would eliminate the possibility of some TiVoWeb problem.

Did your TiVo crash in the last couple of days? (TiVoWeb info can tell you.)

[PhilG]

I have FTP'd my log file back up to Windows, and it DOES look like this:

Sunday 16:55:00 : Added 300 seconds end padding to {Stargate SG-1} on SKYONE
Sunday 18:55:00 : Added 300 seconds end padding to {The Simpsons} on SKYONE
Monday 12:25:00 : Added 300 seconds end padding to {Judge Judy} on ITV2
Monday 21:56:09 : Added 300 seconds end padding to {Extraordinary People} on FIVE
Wednesday 17:55:00 : Added 900 seconds end padding to {World Cup Biathlon} on EURGB
Thursday 09:25:00 : Added 900 seconds end padding to {World Cup Biathlon} on EURGB
dded 300 seconds end padding to {Judge Judy} on ITV2
Wednesday 15:25:00 : Added 300 seconds end padding to {The Mouse on the Moon} on C4
Thursday 12:25:00 : Added 300 seconds end padding to {Judge Judy} on ITV2
Thursday 21:55:00 : Added 300 seconds end padding to ER on E4
Friday 12:25:00 : Added 300 seconds end padding to {Judge Judy} on ITV2

Lines not quite in date order, and one line starting "dded ....."

As it happens, I did have an unexpected reboot on Monday evening if that explains anything

Phil G

[sanderton]

TCL just got itstelf mixed up flushing the file write buffer. Wouldn't stress about it.

[PhilG]

That's what I hoped

Tivo_stress = low

[zippy7272]

I'm still having a bit of trouble

I hoping to record
Coronation street from 19:28 to 20:01
Eastenders from 20:01 to 20:30
Coronation street from 20:30 to 21:05 (unless the a program on my to do list (not a tivo suggestion))

Currently I'm using this:

-s 2 -e 5 sugeq
-p "Coronation Street" -v Mon/12:00-20:00 -s 2 -n 1 -e 5 sugeq

and I don't get Eastenders at all (luckily!? it's on again at 10pm)

Anyone any suggestions

[tym]

I'm still having a bit of trouble

and I don't get Eastenders at all (luckily!? it's on again at 10pm)

Anyone any suggestionsAre these tivo suggestions or real recordings? Suggestions are generally removed to make space for any real recording's padding.

Can you send the relevant part of the log?

Tim

[redav]

I seem to be doing somthing wrong, but for the life of me I can't work it out.

I copied over the endpad.tcl file and chmod it to 755

I then started it with /var/hack/endpad.tcl -e 10 -auto >> /dev/null & in my rc.sysinit.author file, but after a few secs I get this error message in my log!

I do have my recording setting to mode 0 is this whats causing the problem?

Tuesday 10:38:28 :
Tuesday 10:38:28 : endpad.tcl 1.5.0 log file, starting up
Tuesday 10:38:28 : Start padding set to 0 seconds
Tuesday 10:38:28 : End padding set to 600 seconds
Tuesday 10:38:28 : Negative start padding set to 0 seconds
Tuesday 10:38:28 : Force Negative startpadding is 0
Tuesday 10:38:28 : Suggestions will be padded, even if that means cancelling a subsequent suggestion
Tuesday 10:38:28 : Detected TiVo software version 2.5.5-01-1-023
Tuesday 10:38:28 : Suggestion quality change disabled
Tuesday 10:38:28 : Timezone 00:00
Tuesday 10:38:28 : Sorted configuration options (last match used):-
Tuesday 10:38:28 : startpad 0 endpad 10 negpad 0 forceneg 0 maxneg -1 sugeq 1 sugqual -1
Tuesday 10:38:28 : Woken up
Tuesday 10:38:28 : Error detected
Tuesday 10:38:28 : can't read "rectype": no such variable
while executing
"if {$rectype == 3} {

# Recording active
set isrec 1

# Get details of currently recording programme
RetryTransaction ..."
Tuesday 10:38:28 : Attempting to recover
Tuesday 10:38:58 : Woken up
Tuesday 10:38:58 : Error detected
Tuesday 10:38:58 : can't read "rectype": no such variable
while executing
"if {$rectype == 3} {

# Recording active
set isrec 1

# Get details of currently recording programme
RetryTransaction ..."
Tuesday 10:38:58 : Attempting to recover
Tuesday 10:38:58 : Too many errors, stopping

:(

[redav]

Hi

I've just read through the old endpad thread (well some of it anyway) and I've found the answer.

However is there no way around having to have at least 2 recordings in the TDL?

[zippy7272]

Are these tivo suggestions or real recordings? Suggestions are generally removed to make space for any real recording's padding.

Can you send the relevant part of the log?

Tim

All 3 records are 'real' recordings rather than Tivo suggestions

[maxwells_daemon]

Is there a bug in the endpad.log creation:

I've started endpad with:

/var/hack/endpad.tcl -s 1 -e 4 -n 0 -f 0 -tz 0 -sugqual 75 -auto >> /dev/null &

but endpad.log has:

startpad 1 endpad 4 negpad 0 forceneg 0 maxneg -1 sugeq 1 sugqual 75

Shouldn't sugeq say '0'?andHey, a bug, and this time I don't have to fix it. Cool! :)Yeah, this is a bug in the log file display. I have a fix, which I'll upload as version 1.5.1 at the head of this thread.

This behaviour was due to the fact that, internally, the sugeq flag has a default value of 1, and is set to 0 if you specify -sugeq. That's pretty ugly, but made it easier to interface the new configuration parsing with the reversed flag used elsewhere in the code, while maintaining compatibility with older versions. The new version just prints "sugeq" if the internal value is 0.

Version 1.5.1 just corrects this confusing log file message. There is no need to upgrade from version 1.5.0 unless such things bother you.

It is also rather inconsistent that you specify -sugeq as a simple option, but -f (forceneg) as 0 or 1 explicitly. It might be nice to tidy these up eventually (perhaps allowing both forms, for compatibility).

Tim.

[Fozzie]

Just had endpad stop on me, see attached log extract.

Anything to do with endpad or just one of those occassional database screw-ups?

Thanks.

[Tim Browse]

I'm just setting up my old Tivo with a new hard disk for someone in my family, and have installed endpad. I tested it by scheduling a few random programs to record.

As part of the test, two of the programs were adjacent - 'The Royal' was on from 8pm-9pm, and Poirot was on from 9pm-11pm.

However, no end-padding was added to Poirot - in the log I get entries like:


Sunday 20:27:00 : Woken up
Sunday 20:27:00 : Recording {Agatha Christie's Poirot} on ITV1LON now
Sunday 20:27:00 : Recording Scheduled End Time: 22:00
Sunday 20:27:00 : Next recording is {Agatha Christie's Poirot} on ITV1LON at
Sunday 20:27:00 : Gap to next programme is -7200 seconds
Sunday 20:27:00 : Can't add end padding to {Agatha Christie's Poirot}
Sunday 20:27:00 : Next end padding setting due 21:55
Sunday 20:27:00 : Gap to previous recording is -7200 seconds
Sunday 20:27:00 : Can't add start padding to {Agatha Christie's Poirot}
Sunday 20:27:00 : Next start padding setting due 21:55
Sunday 20:27:00 : Next wake up will be 20:57
Sleeping, checking every minute for kill signal...............................


So for some reason endpad thinks the gap to the next programme is negative 2 hours - some mistake, surely?

Anyone got any ideas as to why this would happen?

Start padding was added ok to 'The Royal', btw, as you would expect.

The version I'm using was downloaded from this thread last night (v.1.5.1).

It's a pretty clean Tivo - I have ls/ps/tar/joe installed, and the autospace hack, but that's it. No Tivoweb or anything.

Tim

[Fozzie]

What's in the log around the time that Poirot ended?

[Tim Browse]

What's in the log around the time that Poirot ended?

Now that's odd. Well, around the time Poirot ended it's all the same, but I just noticed that endpad thinks the Tivo is still recording Poirot even after it's finished - e.g. the very last log entry mentioning Poirot is:


Monday 01:25:22 : Woken up
Monday 01:25:22 : Recording {Agatha Christie's Poirot} on ITV1LON now
Monday 01:25:22 : Recording Scheduled End Time: 22:00
Monday 01:25:22 : Next recording is {Agatha Christie's Poirot} on ITV1LON at
Monday 01:25:22 : Gap to next programme is -7200 seconds
Monday 01:25:22 : Can't add end padding to {Agatha Christie's Poirot}
Monday 01:25:22 : Next end padding setting due 21:55
Monday 01:25:22 : Gap to previous recording is -7200 seconds
Monday 01:25:22 : Can't add start padding to {Agatha Christie's Poirot}
Monday 01:25:22 : Next start padding setting due 21:55
Monday 01:25:22 : Next wake up will be 01:25
Sleeping, checking every minute for kill signal..


So that's at least an hour and a half after it's supposed to be finished (or possibly 2.5 hrs - the times in the log seem to use DST/don't use DST in different places).

How strange.

This bit is odd, too:


Next recording is {Agatha Christie's Poirot} on ITV1LON


I think there was only one episode of Poirot on that evening - the Tivo certainly only recorded one, anyway.

Tim

[Fozzie]

That's a completely different showing; the part of the log showing the previous recording is the one I need to see to be able to make a comment (around 2200hrs). The log always uses GMT (1hr behind DST). Perhaps it would be easier if you just posted the whole log file as a .txt attachment?

[sanderton]

You can get some odd behaviour with EndPad on an "empty" TiVo as it looks a couple of recordings in advance in normal operation. I don't know how 1.5 handles this, but 1.4 just broke!

[Tim Browse]

That's a completely different showing; the part of the log showing the previous recording is the one I need to see to be able to make a comment (around 2200hrs). The log always uses GMT (1hr behind DST). Perhaps it would be easier if you just posted the whole log file as a .txt attachment?
The reason I showed that is because it kept saying the same thing for hours - so I picked one of the last ones to show that it thought the recording was still going on hours after it had finished.

Anyway, it seems to be ok now, so perhaps Sanderton's comment about empty Tivos is on the mark - I made sure I had at least 2 items in the To Do list, as recommended before checking to see if endpad was working, but maybe not having any recordings is an issue too.

I'm afraid the log's been cycled now, so it's gone - sorry.

[sanderton]

Hi folks,

Apologiues for the cross post, but I know some outside the UK subscribe to this thread.

As you probably know, EndPad is charity ware, but the site I'd asked people to give had expired.

It's now working again at:

http://www.justgiving.com/brigidphillips

So, if you use EndPad and haven't made a donation, however small, I'd love it if you would.

Stuart


http://www.justgiving.com/images/UserImages/UK/EGG/PICT0726_edited.JPG


Joanna and Sam's mummy, Judy and Michael's daughter, Brigid passed away on 22nd December 2004 at age 39. Brigid inspired all of us who knew her with her love, creativity and drive. She crammed an amazing amount into her days - in the last few years beside being a full time mum to two small children (and I now know what that involves) she published a local baby directory, played cello in two orchestras, was training as an ante-natal instructor, volunteered for the NCT & MNS, ran for Cancer Research UK, was a regular at Dragons Health Club, and yet always had time to help friends out and arrange something else.

Brigid supported Cancer Research UK for many years and this is also an opportunity to help cure cancer faster.

This page has been created following the amazing response to the Stride for Life walk that we organised last summer (http://www.justgiving.com/brigid) which 1,100 people took part in, and the Candle for Brigid page over the last holiday season (http://www.justgiving.com/candleforbrigid) that 200 people sponsored.

Love does not die, and may her memory be a blessing

Thank you

Mark, Joanna and Sam

[b166er]

I attach a new version which includes a number of enhancements and minor bug fixes
Nice work on the negative padding. I think I won't update though, I'm VERY happy with the standard Endpad, meets my needs nicely. Except for one minor thing which I'm putting here as a suggestion for feedback:

If you have two programs set to record back-to-back on the same channel, then instead of worrying about when to stop one and when to start the other with all the complex padding and negative padding logic that might entail, just combine them into one recording.

Example:

BBC2 9:00-9:30 and 9:30-10:00. If your standard padding is set to 2 mins before and 5 mins after, then with the new feature you'd end up with one recording that starts at 8:58 and ends at 10:05. A bonus would be if you could somehow combine the names, but just keeping the first (or second) name would work too.

[Fozzie]

I had a problem last night with back to back recordings on the same channel; Casualty (BBC1 2040-2130) and Strictly Dance Fever (BBC1 2130-2200). I have the following options set - 1 minute start padding, 4 minutes end padding, force negative padding and Casualty 3 minutes negative padding.

Basically, the second recording (Strictly Dance Fever) was cancelled by endpad (to allow the 3 minutes negative padding to be added to Casualty) but it was not re-scheduled and so wasn't recorded; Casualty then got 4 minutes (normal) end padding added because there was no following recording.

I've attached the relevant log extracts.

This has happened before but I didn't get the chance to capture the logs. Any ideas?

[b166er]

I had a problem last night with back to back recordingsMy suggestion would have taken care of this. Does nobody like it? Seems to make things a lot easier to me, but I wouldn't have a clue where to start implementing that.

[Fozzie]

My suggestion would have taken care of this. Does nobody like it? Seems to make things a lot easier to me, but I wouldn't have a clue where to start implementing that.No, I don't like the idea; I want to retain the two seperate recordings.

[Trinitron]

Combining recordings also makes it harder to find the start of the second one, especially if you don't want to watch/fastforward the end of the first one!

Wouldn't it also confuse Tivo into thinking the second prog hadn't been recorded, meaning that it could be looking to grab it when repeated?

And, having made sense at last of the configuration options(!) a couple of things I would like to see:

- different padding for suggestions to scheduled recordings
- alternative to 'sugeq' so that suggestions can be recorded back to back but with the start of the 2nd programme cut.

[schwinn]

Sorry for my ignorance, but I really don't understand the operation of the negative end padding and the maxneg feature. Can someone clarify it for me? What's the difference between them?

Maybe I can be a bit more specific. Most programs here start and end "on time" (ie, :00 or :30 times). However, some stations decide to purposely shift program starts by 1-5 minutes early, just to throw off the DVRs. Unfortunately, this practice isn't always consistent, as they may do this with certain programs one week, and then others another week. For that matter, other networks may do this as well.

So, what I am looking for, is a way to negative-pad the second program so that I miss the start, but still get the rest of the program. Will negative end-padding or the maxneg feature restore the conflicting recording automatically? Do I need to specify each show to negative-pad, or can I apply it to all programs? Basically, I am looking for the feature that S2 users have, which does this automatically... and I am hoping that with the right settings, endpad will do this too.

Thanks.

[tym]

So, what I am looking for, is a way to negative-pad the second program so that I miss the start, but still get the rest of the program. Will negative end-padding or the maxneg feature restore the conflicting recording automatically? Do I need to specify each show to negative-pad, or can I apply it to all programs? Basically, I am looking for the feature that S2 users have, which does this automatically... and I am hoping that with the right settings, endpad will do this too.

Hmmm. Negpad extends (endpads) a program into another program by removing some of the start of the following program (hence the negative padding). Maxneg allows you to specify the maximum amount that the start of a particular program can have cut off. endpad in general will only work on programs that have been scheduled to record by the tivo.

What you appear to be asking for is the ability to record overlapping programs by cutting the start or end off one of them. This is not provided by endpad.

A thought, which may or may not work, is to add negative values to the allowed start early and finish late times (See http://hacks.oreilly.com/pub/h/583 for example), then set the season passes with start early/finish late as required to allow the programs to be scheduled. Then hopefully endpad will pad the programs just prior to recording to the correct value to fill in the gap.

Good luck,
Tim

[maxwells_daemon]

A thought, which may or may not work, is to add negative values to the allowed start early and finish late times (See http://hacks.oreilly.com/pub/h/583 for example)Just a word of caution here. I had understood that that hack only works on TiVo software version 3.x, not the UK's 2.5.5. At least that's what it says in the TiVo Hacks book that that page is from. Of course I'd be delighted to be proved wrong, because I'd also find it a useful feature.

[ericd121]

Could someone tell me how forgiving endpad is of programme names?

Do I always have to use the full name e.g. Later with Jools Holland?

Or will it match on Jools?

(The readme example is Buffy, which makes me wonder whether it uses Tivo's only from the start matching.)

Can I use wildcards e.g. Big Brother* to catch the various ancillary progs?

[Fozzie]

Without wishing to STBO, why don't you try it and see? Then you can learn something and pass on the knowledge :)

[ericd121]

I will if you tell me what STBO means. :)

[Edit] Oh, as I walked downstairs it became BO what it meant! :rolleyes: ;)

[maxwells_daemon]

Could someone tell me how forgiving endpad is of programme names?

Do I always have to use the full name e.g. Later with Jools Holland?

Or will it match on Jools?You should be able to use any part of the programme name, so Jools should work. It also doesn't care about case (so later would also match 28 days later even if the title wasn't capitalised).

(The readme example is Buffy, which makes me wonder whether it uses Tivo's only from the start matching.)

Can I use wildcards e.g. Big Brother* to catch the various ancillary progs?If fact it uses a regular expression (http://www.tcl.tk/man/tcl8.0/TclCmd/regexp.htm) match, so .* matches anything, eg. {Later .* Holland} (the {} are needed if the string has spaces).

If you want an exact match on the whole programme name, you use {^Later with Jools Holland$}.

Hope that helps,
Tim.

[schwinn]

Hmmm. Negpad extends (endpads) a program into another program by removing some of the start of the following program (hence the negative padding). Maxneg allows you to specify the maximum amount that the start of a particular program can have cut off. endpad in general will only work on programs that have been scheduled to record by the tivo.This is what confuses me. Ok, let's say I have an SP on two programs that overlap by 1 minute, and the first program's SP is higher priority than the second. With the default setup, SP1 will overlap SP2, so SP2 will not record.

Now, negative padding should negative-pad the SP2 as necessary, allowing it to record. But, as you state, it "will only work on programs that have been scheduled to record by the tivo." So the question is, is my SP2 program considered "scheduled" or not? Will it be recorded with negative padding, as I would like it to be?

I imagine that endpad will not do this... so then, what situation does allow for this to work? In other words, if there is a conflict, then the recording is "not scheduled" so then how does negative padding work at all?

I hear you on the hack from oreilly.com, and it makes sense... but that requires manual intervention, while (as I mentioned before) Series 2 users have this feature built in.

I honestly believe that this feature is doable on S1 tivos. Here's my line of thought: Sanderton has already created a TCL program that can identify conflicts and send them to a second networked Tivo. My thought is, if you identify the conflict, then see if it's only 1-5 minutes (or whatever) overlap, you can add the recording to the same tivo (instead of a second tivo) with the appropriate negative padding. I thought if endpad already does this, then I am all set... but I don't see this capability in endpad, so I am trying to better undestand the behavior of negative padding.

[tym]

so I am trying to better undestand the behavior of negative padding.

Negative padding is to cater for the situation (unfortunately all too common in Australia) where programs do not run to the published schedule, but typically run 3-5 minutes over time. So, if the Tivo is setup to record back-to-back programs on different channels you miss the last few minutes. negpad starts the following program late to allow recording of these last few minutes (it's better to miss the recap/intro of most programs!).

maxneg allows you to specify a global negpad value and have particular programs start on time (or less late) as required.

forceneg allows you to negpad even if the channel doesn't change. This is useful if you watch programs out of order and want to be able to delete the later program (which would otherwise have contained the end of the earlier program).

Your suggestion of scheduling conflicts which partally overlap does not belong in endpad but in a separate program (the schedule on another Tivo one is probably a good start point). endpad provides critical functionality that you don't want to break if you can avoid it.

Cheers,
Tim

[ericd121]

I think I'm getting my head around negpad; let me run this by you and see if I've got it right.

Sunday C4
7.40pm News
8.00pm Invasion
9.00pm Big Brother

In order to extend Invasion, I would need this in endpad.config
p Invasion -n 4
so Big Brother would start at 9.04pm.

I have to say that this usage is a bit confusing as the padding acts upon the unnamed, rather than named, programme.

I'm sure there are valid programming reasons for this, but it's going to cause confusion for the user (grateful though he is ;) ).

In fact, I will re-state I am very grateful for the work you guys have, and are, putting into this.

I would, however, like to make some constructive remarks.

As stated earlier in the thread, the negpad function is poorly named; I would expect a function named thus to make the named programme shorter.

Using the example above, suppose I would like Invasion to start at 8.04pm and finish it at 8.55pm.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the 8.55pm finish can be achieved by endpad at present.
In order to achieve the late start, in endpad.config, I'd need
p C4 News -n 4

I think that is counter-intuitive, or possibly it depends on which programme I, the user, am focused upon; if I want to extend C4 News, I would expect to apply normal padding to it
p C4 News -e 4 and then
negative padding to the following prog
p Invasion -n 4 .
I realise this is what
p C4 News -n 4
does, and my version is longer, but it makes more sense to me;
either way, negpad needs a name change at the very least; maybe it should be called forcepad?

Here is how I think it ought to be.

There ought to be two new functions:- startneg and endneg, or, to give them even clearer names, start-late (-sl) and end-early (-ee).

Thus, to achieve my shortened Invasion version (start at 8.04pm and finish at 8.55pm), the config I'd need would be
p Invasion -sl 4 -ee 5.

Is this true negative padding possible?

[Fozzie]

Sunday C4
7.40pm News
8.00pm Invasion
9.00pm Big Brother

In order to extend Invasion, I would need this in endpad.config
p Invasion -n 4
so Big Brother would start at 9.04pm.

I have to say that this usage is a bit confusing as the padding acts upon the unnamed, rather than named, programme.

As stated earlier in the thread, the negpad function is poorly named; I would expect a function named thus to make the named programme shorter. The problem is how you are thinking Eric. The purpose of negative padding is to cause any follow on programme (whatever it may be) to be started late; if there are any specific programmes that you do not wish to be delayed in starting (or wish to constrain how late they can be started) then you use the maxnegpad option.

So to be clear, the purpose of negative padding is to allow specific programmes to cause any follow up back to back recording to be started late (in order to allow the specified programme recording to be extended) and NOT to start specific programmes late; a subtle difference.

Using the example above, suppose I would like Invasion to start at 8.04pm and finish it at 8.55pm. Conceptually, that is not what endpad is designed to do. You should be saying:

1. I want the News recording to be extended by 4 mins, because I always miss the end of it (a perfectly valid scenario). Therefore, I need to set the News to be able to negpad by 4 minutes.

2. I want to start the recording of Big Brother 5 mins early (and therefore stop any preceding recording 5 mins early). As mentioned in an earlier post, this is not something that endpad does, is designed to do, or probably can do. IIRC, Sanderton did try something previously but found the current recording, when terminated early, got lost. Plus, I don't actually see where this functionality would be useful (not in the UK at least; I've yet to miss the start of a programme, because it started early).

Is this true negative padding possible?I think we already have true negative padding. Once you get your head around what it's supposed to do Eric (i.e. negative padding is a variable applied to specific recordings that will allow them to cause follow up recordings to be started late, as opposed to a variable that is applied to specific recordings to always cause them to start late), I think you'll find it really useful. :)

I take it you didn't understand my answer to your previous question on 20th Feb? ;)

[tym]

I think I'm getting my head around negpad; let me run this by you and see if I've got it right....

negpad needs a name change at the very least; maybe it should be called forcepad?
...
Is this true negative padding possible?

I agree. The naming is a confusing. It was borrowed from the person who first coded the negative padding code. I guess it would not be too hard to add synonyms to the commands, for example, forceendpad, startlatemax or maxlatestart, alwaysforceendpad, etc, corresponding to negpad, maxneg and forceneg.

Technically it is possible using the current code inside endpad to have a forcestartpad type functionality, but I don't see the point of doing this. endpadding takes precedence over start padding for a good reason - programs generally don't start early!

Cheers,
Tim

[Cainam]

programs generally don't start early!

Not sure I agree with that one. I regularly miss the start of Bones (Sky One), as I cannot add any start padding as ER is recording on E4 beforehand. The same was true of Lost episode 3 - I forget what was recording before it, but I could not start pad it, and the recording starts after the program has already started.

I know I am probably only missing a few seconds (as opposed to minutes) at the start (so it is not really a big deal), but surely that is the reason why we start pad programs - because they do start early!

[ericd121]

The problem is how you are thinking Eric.No surprise, there. ;)

I think we already have true negative padding. Once you get your head around what it's supposed to do Eric (i.e. negative padding is a variable applied to specific recordings that will allow them to cause follow up recordings to be started late, as opposed to a variable that is applied to specific recordings to always cause them to start late), I think you'll find it really useful. :)I do think I will find it useful, and thanks for making things clearer. :up:

However, early starts were, and often still are, a problem on C4 Friday nights, where the beginning of each programme was chopped off because each one started a minute early; as many were US comedy shows, and hence had no recap or title sequence at the start, a minute of the prologue was lost.

I do accept, however, that this can not be safely programmed for .

I take it you didn't understand my answer to your previous question on 20th Feb? ;)I did in principle; it was only when I applied it to reality that I became confused. :rolleyes:

[Fozzie]

I guess I must have been lucky then, by not missing the start of a programme. Is it not the case though that compare to the likelyhood of missing the ends of programmes, missing the start is very low?

I think what we've got so far is pretty good;

Standalone recording - can be started early and can be finished late.
Back to back recordings - first one can be started early and finished late. Second one can be finished late.

So the only bit missing is starting the second one early. However, even if that functionality was possible (which as I mentioned before, I think there are problems with the current recording getting lost if it is terminated early) you are then going to run in to a whole load of complex decisions about which type of padding takes priority - endpad the current recording (and start the second one late) or startpad the second recording and finish the first one early - for me, I think endpadding should always take priority (as I'd rather miss the start of something than the end).

I think endpad has got the methodolgy correct in that endpadding can always be added, and startpadding if there is no preceding recording (and if there is chocie between start and endpadding, endpadding gets applied) :)

There are always going to be certain occasions when the scheduling conspires against us and endpad can't possibly be expected to work out exactly what should and shouldn't be padded - in those cases a little bit of jiggery pokery with the season pass start and end times and the odd manual recording should sort things out.

Having said all that and at the end of the day, it's only TV :eek: :)

[ericd121]

If fact it uses a regular expression (http://www.tcl.tk/man/tcl8.0/TclCmd/regexp.htm) match, so .* matches anything, eg. {Later .* Holland} (the {} are needed if the string has spaces).

If you want an exact match on the whole programme name, you use {^Later with Jools Holland$}.

Hope that helps,
Tim.Thank you , Tim. :up:

I read the regular expression page until my brain started to bleed... :rolleyes:

I take it that ^ and $ denote the start and the end of the textstring?

Can I run some examples past you? In endpad.config, would these work?

p {Later with Jools Holland} -e 9
p "Later with Jools Holland" -e 9

[Fozzie]

Can I run some examples past you? In endpad.config, would these work?

p {Later with Jools Holland} -e 9
p "Later with Jools Holland" -e 9They work for me ;)

[maxwells_daemon]

I read the regular expression page until my brain started to bleed... :rolleyes:The link I gave you is in the Tcl documentation, and very brief. There's lots of other information out there on regular expressions (including whole books (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0596002890/) and web sites (http://www.regular-expressions.info/)), though Tcl's (and hence Endpad's) is just one flavour.

I take it that ^ and $ denote the start and the end of the textstring?Yes.

Can I run some examples past you? In endpad.config, would these work?

p {Later with Jools Holland} -e 9
p "Later with Jools Holland" -e 9Either should do. They'd also apply 9 minutes end-padding to The best of Later with Jools Holland, if such a thing existed (that's where you'd use ^, in the unlikely event that that were a problem).

[ericd121]

They'd also apply 9 minutes end-padding to The best of Later with Jools Holland, if such a thing existed (that's where you'd use ^, in the unlikely event that that were a problem).Perfect explanation! :up: Thank you. :)

By George, I think I get it. ;) :p

[schwinn]

Negative padding is to cater for the situation (unfortunately all too common in Australia) where programs do not run to the published schedule, but typically run 3-5 minutes over time. So, if the Tivo is setup to record back-to-back programs on different channels you miss the last few minutes. negpad starts the following program late to allow recording of these last few minutes (it's better to miss the recap/intro of most programs!).Perfect explanation, and I can now see the "sense" in negative padding. So, basically, it's there to allow endpadding to continue on one program, while negative-padding the following program. I assume that you can negative-pad "globally" rather than by specifying programs. Makes sense to me now, thank you.

Edit: Another way to put it - it allows endpadding to continue, even if it pushes off the start time of the following program (negative padding). Of course, this means both programs must already be in the ToDo list... which my example does not have...

Maxneg also, therfore, makes sense, as does forceneg.Your suggestion of scheduling conflicts which partally overlap does not belong in endpad but in a separate program (the schedule on another Tivo one is probably a good start point). endpad provides critical functionality that you don't want to break if you can avoid it.No arument there - what I have proposed is certainly not the intended purpose of endpad, really, as it's a separate issue. In fact, using endpad with this separate program would be possible, as neither should interfere with each other...

Now the problem is that I do not know TCL, so I cannot write a program to accomplish my desired feat - ie to provide conflict resolution for slightly overlapped programs. Do any of the endpad creators/modifiers (Sanderton? :) ) have the desire to give this one a try? I would really appreciate it, and I imagine other S1 owners would love to have it too.

[Fozzie]

I assume that you can negative-pad "globally" rather than by specifying programs.It can be set either globally, per channel, per programme, time specific, or any combination of these parameters.

[schwinn]

Well, negative padding sounds good. But, it still doesn't address the issue with non-scheduled recordings and "overlap protection".

So, I would love to see overlap protection happen for S1 owners... but it seems no one is interested. So, I will see if I can figure it out myself... in the meantime, any help for TCL information and making TivoWeb modules is appreciated.

[Fozzie]

But, it still doesn't address the issue with non-scheduled recordings and "overlap protection".Not quite sure what you mean by this, or what you are trying to achieve, i.e. what do you mean by a non-scheduled recording (surely all recordings are scheduled) and what do you mean by overlap protection?

[schwinn]

As I mentioned above, I was hoping that negative padding would provide "overlap protection" as many S2 users have this feature built into their software. Unfortunately, endpad doesn't work that way... but a new TCL could be made to accomplish this task.

"Overlap protection" is the term used for the S2 Tivos, and it allows for 2 slightly-overlapping programs (less than 5 minutes, I think) to both record - by negative padding the second one. For example, if Show1 goes from 9pm-10pm, but Show2 goes from 9:59pm-11pm, only one will record (our NBC network here does this often, and others are starting to do this on and off). Since one of these 2 programs are automatically cancelled (via season pass priority) endpad would not work to resolve this. So...

As I mentioned above (direct cut and paste): Here's my line of thought: Sanderton has already created a TCL program that can identify conflicts and send them to a second networked Tivo. My thought is, if you identify the conflict, then see if it's only 1-5 minutes (or whatever) overlap, you can add the recording to the same tivo (instead of a second tivo) with the appropriate negative padding.

All the pieces are there, just need to be combined to make it work this way. Like I said, if I knew TCL well enough, I am sure it's a trivial task to make this happen (even if it's manual via TivoWeb Module for now).

[tym]

All the pieces are there, just need to be combined to make it work this way. Like I said, if I knew TCL well enough, I am sure it's a trivial task to make this happen (even if it's manual via TivoWeb Module for now).
Having played a bit with endpad, I would suggest it is not a trivial task to do completely, although you may be able to handle a subset of the possible cases fairly easily using parts of the negpad code and the conflicts module.

An example of the more hairy problems you might have to handle: Say you had SPs 1, 2 and 3 (prioritized as such). 1 overlapped slightly with 2, which overlapped with 3. Tivo would schedule 1 and 3, but you probably want 1, 2 cropped, and 3 cropped or descheduled (depending on the size of the overlap). Ug.

Tim

[schwinn]

Good point... what would happen if Tivo were scheduled (externally, in this case) to record #2... would #3 then be cancelled because of overlap? If this is the case, then the solution is simple, as you simply recurse through this once more, and find that 1 and 2 are recording (with 2 being start-cropped), and then schedule 3 (with this code) to be start-cropped and added again.

Of course, if this automatic cancellation doesn't happen, then we could likely end up with a crash, I would imagine, as both programs would want to record in that overlap between 2 and 3... and who knows what that would do.

In any case, the code could be made to simply check to ensure that #2 has availabiliy to record, otherwise it could simply error to the TivoWeb screen (since these are TW modules right now, anyway). Of course, to get fancier, the code could also help resolve this, too... but that's a few steps ahead of ourselves.

So, I don't see a problem with this, other than ensuring it doesn't crash the Tivo.

The more complex issue is such: Assume SP1 and SP2, where the show order is actually SP2 - SP1 (with 1 having priority). In that case, SP1 would be recorded, while SP2 would not... here the code would need to crop the start of the already scheduled SP2, and then add SP1. Not really that complicated, but it just brings forth the need for the code to realize the recording order, and then crop appropriately (as opposed to cropping the cancelled one only). I imagine start-cropping of existing recordings is certainly possible (as negative padding does this on the fly)...

In the end, the code doesn't have to be perfectly intelligent... as long as it doesn't cause further issues...

I really wish I knew TCL better... I other languages, but I don't program that often, so it's a slower learning curve for me.

[sanderton]

Good point... what would happen if Tivo were scheduled (externally, in this case) to record #2... would #3 then be cancelled because of overlap? If this is the case, then the solution is simple, as you simply recurse through this once more, and find that 1 and 2 are recording (with 2 being start-cropped), and then schedule 3 (with this code) to be start-cropped and added again.

If 2 was manually scheduled, the both 1 and 3 would be cancelled. If 1 was already recording the partial recording would be lost.

EndPad in effect works by tinkering with the To Do List on the fly. The problem really is that if the unamended recording is blocked as in the examples above it isn't in the To Do List in the first place, so EndPad can do nothing with it.

That's not impossible to work around - you'd have to have Endpad look in the History, identify shows cancelled due to an overlap, ensure that they haven't been rescheduled at some other time, and resurrect them as a new, shortened recording.

Not impossible, but not easy either.

[schwinn]

I meant that when 2 was manuall scheduled in, it would be start-cropped to prevent interference with 1. Of course, then it would interfere with 3...

I realize that endpad can't perform these tasks, nor do we want it to, since that's not the intended operation anyway (it's not an end-pad program, it's an "overlap protection" program.

This is why I would start with confres0.2 instead, which deals specifically with conflicts, and instead of sending to another tivo, simply have it start-crop when necessary... it wouldn't need to run repeatedly, except maybe once a week... or via manual TivoWeb intervention, if necessary.

[ericd121]

Having installed this version, I am very impressed and pleased; thanks, guys. :up:

However, I've been missing negative padding due to not remembering this:-
this part of the readme is probably relevant:

-f Q Q=0 or 1. If 1, force negative padding even if no channel change

Unless you started endpad with this option set to 1, you would not have got any negative padding due to there being no channel change between the two recordings in question.I currently have this in my rc.sysinit.author
/var/hack/endpad.tcl -s 1 -e 4 -auto >> /dev/null &

I know I could change this to
/var/hack/endpad.tcl -s 1 -e 4 -f 1 -auto >> /dev/null &
but I want to check if I can move all my values into endpad.config, thus changing the above to
/var/hack/endpad.tcl -auto >> /dev/null &
and editing endpad.config to
s 1 e 4 f 1
p Jools n 19
p Pops n 2
p Click s 0 e 0
c BBCR4FM s 0 e 2?

That should work, shouldn't it?

(Yes, Fozzie, I will try it, but it's nice to be told the correct usage. ;) )

Hhmmm... Reading the ReadMe, -s, -e and -f are arguments used to run endpad in rc.sysinit.author; however, -s and -e, but not -f, are keyword abbreviations that can be used in endpad.config. :confused:

[maxwells_daemon]

Hhmmm... Reading the ReadMe, -s, -e and -f are arguments used to run endpad in rc.sysinit.author; however, -s and -e, but not -f, are keyword abbreviations that can be used in endpad.config. :confused:I think it's just missing from the readme.txt (and comments in endpad.config). f 1 or forceneg 1 should work in endpad.config. :)

Thanks for the comment. I'll fix the readme in any next version of endpad.

Tim.

[ericd121]

I was wondering why 1 minute's start padding hadn't been added to Big Brother tonight, so I checked endpad.msg, which stated

Friday 18:28:00 : Deleting suggestion {Poseidon European Premiere Special} on ITV2 to make room for 60 seconds startpad of {Big Brother} on C4
Friday 18:28:00 : Added 240 seconds end padding to {Channel 4 News} on C4
Friday 18:28:00 : Added 60 seconds start padding to {Big Brother} on C4 .

However, endpad.log states

Friday 19:28:00 : Woken up
Friday 19:28:00 : Recording {Poseidon European Premiere Special} on ITV2 (Suggestion) now
Friday 19:28:00 : Recording Scheduled End Time: 19:30
Friday 19:28:00 : Next recording is {Big Brother} on C4 at 19:30
Friday 19:28:00 : Gap to next programme is 0 seconds
Friday 19:28:00 : Can't add end padding to {Poseidon European Premiere Special}
Friday 19:28:00 : Next end padding setting due 20:25
Friday 19:28:00 : Gap to previous recording is 0 seconds
Friday 19:28:00 : Can't add start padding to {Big Brother}
which seems closer to the truth.

More to the point, Poseidon European Premiere Special wasn't deleted, and is in Now Showing.

None of this is a problem; I just thought the programmers might find this intriqueing.

[ericd121]

Endpad stopped on Tivo 2 last night, and here is the error.log
Sleeping, checking every minute for kill signal.............................
Sunday 18:23:00 : Woken up
Sunday 18:23:00 : No recording in progress
Sunday 18:23:00 : Next recording is {Top of the Pops} on BBC2 at 18:25
Sunday 18:23:00 : No end padding required:
Sunday 18:23:00 : No recording in progress
Sunday 18:23:00 : Next end padding setting due 18:55
Sunday 18:23:00 : Added 60 seconds start padding to {Top of the Pops} on BBC2
Sunday 18:23:00 : Next start padding setting due 18:55
Sunday 18:23:00 : Next wake up will be 18:53
Sleeping, checking every minute for kill signal...............................
Sunday 18:53:00 : Woken up
Sunday 18:53:00 : Recording {Top of the Pops} on BBC2 now
Sunday 18:53:00 : Recording Scheduled End Time: 19:00
Sunday 18:53:00 : Next recording is {Poker Face} on ITV1ANG at 19:00
Sunday 18:53:00 : Current recording ({Top of the Pops} at 18:25 on Sun) matches 'Pops' so use negpad 2
Sunday 18:53:00 : Not time to add end padding yet
Sunday 18:53:00 : Next end padding setting due 18:55
Sunday 18:53:00 : Not time to add start padding yet
Sunday 18:53:00 : Next start padding setting due 18:58
Sunday 18:53:00 : Next wake up will be 18:55
Sleeping, checking every minute for kill signal...
Sunday 18:55:00 : Woken up
Sunday 18:55:00 : Recording {Top of the Pops} on BBC2 now
Sunday 18:55:00 : Recording Scheduled End Time: 19:00
Sunday 18:55:00 : Next recording is {Poker Face} on ITV1ANG at 19:00
Sunday 18:55:00 : Current recording ({Top of the Pops} at 18:25 on Sun) matches 'Pops' so use negpad 2
Sunday 18:55:00 : Gap to next programme is 0 seconds
Sunday 18:55:00 : Need to add 120 seconds of negative padding to {Poker Face}
Sunday 18:55:01 : Original start time for {Poker Face} is 68400
Sunday 18:55:01 : New start time is 68520
Sunday 18:55:01 : Error detected
Sunday 18:55:01 : no such object: dbobj10736 dbobj10737 dbobj10738
while executing
"dbobj $programsource fsid"
("uplevel" body line 18)
invoked from within
"uplevel $body"
invoked from within
"transaction {uplevel $body}"
(procedure "RetryTransaction" line 4)
invoked from within
"RetryTransaction {
set rec [db $db openid $recfsid]

set programsourcefsid 0
set showing [dbobj $rec get Showing]
set station [dbobj $..."
(procedure "AddNegativeStartPadding" line 65)
invoked from within
"AddNegativeStartPadding $nextrecfsid $negativepaddingtoadd"
Sunday 18:55:01 : Attempting to recover
Sunday 18:55:31 : Woken up
Sunday 18:55:31 : Recording {Top of the Pops} on BBC2 now
Sunday 18:55:31 : Recording Scheduled End Time: 19:00
Sunday 18:55:31 : Next recording is {Poker Face} on ITV1ANG at 19:00
Sunday 18:55:31 : Current recording ({Top of the Pops} at 18:25 on Sun) matches 'Pops' so use negpad 2
Sunday 18:55:31 : Gap to next programme is 0 seconds
Sunday 18:55:31 : Need to add 120 seconds of negative padding to {Poker Face}
Sunday 18:55:31 : Original start time for {Poker Face} is 68400
Sunday 18:55:31 : New start time is 68520
Sunday 18:55:31 : Error detected
Sunday 18:55:31 : no such object: dbobj10754 dbobj10755 dbobj10756
while executing
"dbobj $programsource fsid"
("uplevel" body line 18)
invoked from within
"uplevel $body"
invoked from within
"transaction {uplevel $body}"
(procedure "RetryTransaction" line 4)
invoked from within
"RetryTransaction {
set rec [db $db openid $recfsid]

set programsourcefsid 0
set showing [dbobj $rec get Showing]
set station [dbobj $..."
(procedure "AddNegativeStartPadding" line 65)
invoked from within
"AddNegativeStartPadding $nextrecfsid $negativepaddingtoadd"
Sunday 18:55:31 : Attempting to recover
Sunday 18:55:31 : Too many errors, stoppingI seem to remember I did have two or three Season Passes for Top of the Pops, which I cleared down to one on Saturday.

I wonder if this may be the cause?

[khadland]

Help!

I'm at the folk's house for a Barbie - installed Endpad for them ages ago but it seems that the /var/hack directory got wiped a few weeks ago, so brought my serial cable with me and have tried re-installing the latest version. I've chmodded everything to 755, the rc.sysinit.author is

/var/hack/endpad.tcl -s 1 -e 5 -auto >> /dev/null &

but when i've tried manual recordings they are starting & stopping on time with no padding going on so my 'technical wizz kid' badge is starting to look a bit shabby...

Installing endpad is about as brave as i've ever got with a Tivo - is there an idiot-proof way to check that it's being started up correctly by using the serial cable. Other than endpad this is a bog standard tivo, the only other hack was to get the bash prompt up so no fancy tools or anything else... any help most welcome!

TIA

Keith

[maxwells_daemon]

Installing endpad is about as brave as i've ever got with a Tivo - is there an idiot-proof way to check that it's being started up correctly by using the serial cable.You can look what it's doing by checking out the /var/log/endpad.msg file (just "cat /var/log/endpad.msg") from the bash prompt. If that doesn't give enough details you can see more of what it is thinking by looking at endpad.log in the same directory.

If those files aren't there, or the log file has an error message, then endpad isn't running (if you had the "ps" program, then you could check directly, but that isn't on standard TiVo).

By the way, did you try starting it by hand as well as via rc.sysinit.author (which only runs when the TiVo is rebooted)? That might show an error message if there is a problem.

Tim.

[khadland]

Thanks - the logs are all there - looks like I was setting the manual recordings too soon so Endpad wasn't waking up in time to process them.

I'll stick their kit back together and hope it all works out later on!

FWIW I'd thought that rediecting the output to /dev/null would kill the logs, had no idea that it wrote to /var/log so maybe worth a quick note in the readme - which I did read, honest! Yes I had tried running it by hand too, and it seemed to sit there quietly but the setup here means I have to unplug & move the Tivo to be next to the PC so I couldn't correlate events as they happened anyway.

Thanks again for the speedy response!

Keith

[Warble]

Okay.
Just got my Tivo networked and I really want to install Endpad.
I have read through the forum and I am slowly getting my head around this.
A few questions if I may - hopefully they will make sense.
Taking Erics' config file as an example

s 1 e 4 f 1
p Jools n 19
p Pops n 2

If there is nothing before or after 'Jools' - what time will it start and finish(i.e 19 minutes into the program or 1 minute before it should normally start and what about the finish )?
If 'Pops' is immediately after 'Jools' will it run 19 minutes over and again when will it finish (is this a scenario for maxneg to stop 'Pops' starting too late)?
Is there a priority in the order of the config file ('Pops' over 'Jools')?
Will this apply to all scheduled recordings i.e season passes, wishlists, Tivo's own suggestions (anything in todo)?
What is a manual recording?

Not sure if I am sounding dumb and I realise that I need to install it and see - but if I miss Corrie... well you know the story.

[ericd121]

Taking Erics' config file as an example

s 1 e 4 f 1
p Jools n 19
p Pops n 2

If there is nothing before or after 'Jools' - what time will it start and finish(i.e 19 minutes into the program or 1 minute before it should normally start and what about the finish )?The Jools recording will have 1 minute's Start Padding, 4 minutes' endpadding.If 'Pops' is immediately after 'Jools' will it run 19 minutes over and again when will it finish (is this a scenario for maxneg to stop 'Pops' starting too late)?The Jools recording will be extended 19 minutes into the Pops recording, which will start 19 minutes late. The Pops recording will be extended by 4 minutes as per global padding. I believe you could use maxneg to change the Pops start time.Is there a priority in the order of the config file ('Pops' over 'Jools')?No, I don't think so.Will this apply to all scheduled recordings i.e season passes, wishlists, Tivo's own suggestions (anything in todo)?I believe it matches on the ToDo List; global settings affect Suggestions, I suppose matching Suggestions...
<Comes back after checking Now Playing>
Yes. Matching Suggestions are affected.

In my endpad.config I have
c BBCR4FM -s 0 -e 2
Recorded half hour Suggestions on Radio 4 are 32 minutes long. :)

[Warble]

Thanks Eric - getting there.

If I could just ask a couple more (based on your answers)

You say
The Jools recording will have 1 minute's Start Padding, 4 minutes' endpadding.

Is that with or without the 19 minutes i.e it starts 18 minutes later and finishes 23 minutes later than scheduled.

and
The Jools recording will be extended 19 minutes into the Pops recording, which will start 19 minutes late.

Does the 'Pops' recording then just run 2 minutes over (into the next) if there is a following program.

Sorry if I may be going over old ground.

(Could negative padding be seen more as an offset where Endpad 'slides across' the scheduled recording by 'n' minutes?)

I will hopefully install tonight and try some tests. :)

[ericd121]

Is that with or without the 19 minutes i.e it starts 18 minutes later and finishes 23 minutes later than scheduled.As discussed earlier in the thread, negpad is poorly named. What it does is extend the finish of the programme into the start of the next programme if there is one; if there isn't one, it has no effect.

So if you had an hour long Jools followed by a half hour Pops,
Jools would have a 1 hour 20 minute duration, with 1 minute's Start Padding, 19 minutes Endpadding, and Pops would have a duration of 15 minutes, starting 19 minutes late and having 4 minutes Endpadding.Does the 'Pops' recording then just run 2 minutes over (into the next) if there is a following program.Yes, if there is one; if there isn't one, the global setting of 4 minutes applies.

(Could negative padding be seen more as an offset where Endpad 'slides across' the scheduled recording by 'n' minutes?)It could. But remember it has no effect on the start time of the named proramme.

[Warble]

As discussed earlier in the thread, negpad is poorly named. What it does is extend the finish of the programme into the start of the next programme if there is one; if there isn't one, it has no effect.

It could. But remember it has no effect on the start time of the named proramme.

Killer lines.
Seems clearer now.

Why do you have 'n19' in your config file for 'Jools'?
If there is no following program then it will stop recording after 4 minutes, whereas if there is a recording following that will be truncated by 19 minutes and Jools will be an extra 15 minutes longer (over the standard endpad 4)?

Thanks for all the help so far - very much appreciated.

[ericd121]

Why do you have 'n19' in your config file for 'Jools'?
If there is no following program then it will stop recording after 4 minutes, whereas if there is a recording following that will be truncated by 19 minutes and Jools will be an extra 15 minutes longer (over the standard endpad 4)?You're right (see, you do understand! ;) ).

I wrote that before I understood negpad. ;)
Now I have
p Jools -n 19 -e 19
Having Later with Jools Holland in one recording is more important to me than any following programme.

[ericd121]

I have had a series of failed recordings tonight, due to endpad.
Here is the full uncommented section of endpad.config
s 1 e 4 f 1
# p Jools -n 19 -e 19
# p "Doctor Who" -e 9
p Click -s 0 -e 0
c BBCR4FM -s 0 -e 2
p Countryfile -e 2
p "Daily Show" -s 0 -e 0
c BBC2 -n 1
the last line being the most relevant in this case, negpad on BBC2.

Here is the To Do List before endpad changed it
Thu 17th Aug 19:00 BBC2 Seven Man-Made Wonders
Thu 17th Aug 19:30 BBC2 Mythbusters
Thu 17th Aug 20:00 BBC2 Dragons' Den
Thu 17th Aug 21:00 ITV1ANG Bad Girls

I spotted that Dragons' Den hadn't started to record, went to LiveTV to hit the Record button:
I didn't spot that Bad Girls hadn't started to record, so when I finally did, I checked Recording History to see that the scheduled episodes, on the hour, were conflicting with the previous programme, and the new showing, created by endpad to start at one minute past, was "no longer in program guide".

Here is the relevant section of endpad.log
Thursday 18:55:00 : Woken up
Thursday 18:55:00 : Recording Mythbusters on BBC2 now
Thursday 18:55:00 : Recording Scheduled End Time: 19:00
Thursday 18:55:00 : Next recording is {Dragons' Den} on BBC2 at 19:00
Thursday 18:55:00 : Current recording (Mythbusters at 18:31 on Thu) is on BBC2 so use negpad 1
Thursday 18:55:00 : Gap to next programme is 0 seconds
Thursday 18:55:00 : Need to add 60 seconds of negative padding to {Dragons' Den}
Thursday 18:55:00 : Original start time for {Dragons' Den} is 68400
Thursday 18:55:00 : New start time is 68460
Thursday 18:55:01 : Cancelled old recording
Thursday 18:55:01 : Creating Recording...
Thursday 18:55:01 : Creating Showing...
Thursday 18:55:01 : Done.
Thursday 18:55:01 : Gap to next programme is now 60 seconds
Thursday 18:55:01 : Added 60 seconds end padding to Mythbusters on BBC2
Thursday 18:55:01 : Next end padding setting due 19:55
Thursday 18:55:01 : Not time to add start padding yet
Thursday 18:55:01 : Next start padding setting due 18:59
Thursday 18:55:01 : Next wake up will be 18:59
Sleeping, checking every minute for kill signal.....
Thursday 18:59:00 : Woken up
Thursday 18:59:00 : Recording Mythbusters on BBC2 now
Thursday 18:59:00 : Recording Scheduled End Time: 19:01
Thursday 18:59:00 : Next recording is {The Daily Show with Jon Stewart} on MORE4 at 19:30

So endpad cancelled the "Next recording is {Dragons' Den} on BBC2 at 19:00" (GMT); supposedly created a recording for 19:01 which for some reason got removed from the To Do list.

Is it too dangerous to set negpad on an entire channel?

Any ideas on how to fix this?

Any help on this gratefully received.

[Edit] I've noticed that this is the same problem that Fozzie had in April (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3989468&&#post3989468).
I had a problem last night with back to back recordings on the same channel;...Basically, the second recording ... was cancelled by endpad (to allow the negative padding...) but it was not re-scheduled and so wasn't recorded

[sanderton]

Interesting one.

I haven't looked at that bit of code, but it looks likely to me that the fake Showing object created by Endpad is being recognised as such by the TiVos housekeeping as it does not correspond to anything in the Schdule and so removed. You probably get away with it 9 times out of 10 as the houskeeping is unlikely to run in the few minutes between the fake Showing being set up and it starting.

If that is the problem, the solution would be for the new late starting show to be created as fully manual timed recording. It would howver then be divorced from its season pass.

[maxwells_daemon]

If that is the problem, the solution would be for the new late starting show to be created as fully manual timed recording. It would howver then be divorced from its season pass.

Would that be so bad? I guess it would briefly appear as a manual recording in the To Do list. I wonder whether there would be any other consequences.

Would another possibility be to keep the original recording, but adjust the schedule so everything is consistent? Or would that be updated if there were a daily call at that moment?

I've never used the negpad feature, so I admit that I'm a bit nervous about making any code changes there.

Tim.

[PhilG]

I just refreshed the endpad config file and, sure enough, in the endpad log it says "Thursday 19:19:03 : Reloading config file due to file change". Is it also supposed to echo the new config file settings? If so, it hasn't done that

Also, I just noticed that it has stopped waking up

Arrggh - It died!

This is what I added to the config:

programme apprentic* 15 # pad all Apprentices 15 minutes....

Should I have quoted the program string, like THIS

programme "apprentic*" 15 # pad all Apprentices 15 minutes....

????

In the config, it just says '(may be quoted using {} or "").' - it doesn't say you HAVE to

[PhilG]

Doh!

It should have been

programme "apprentic*" endpad 15 # pad all Apprentices 15 minutes....

of course

Sorry (but it's a shame a simple config error killed endpad....... Hint Hint)

[PhilG]

Hmmmm

I have the following line in endpad.config

programme "*apprentic*" endpad 15 # pad all Apprentices 15 minutes....

Now endpad crashes with

Thursday 19:48:26 : Woken up
Thursday 19:48:26 : No recording in progress
Thursday 19:48:26 : Next recording is {The Apprentice} on BBC2EM at 22:50
Thursday 19:48:26 : Error detected
Thursday 19:48:26 : couldn't compile regular expression pattern: ?+* follows nothing
while executing
"regexp -nocase -- $newopt(program) $program "
(procedure "getConfig" line 32)
invoked from within
"getConfig "" $cdate $ctime $ctitle "Current recording" {endpad sugeq negpad forceneg}"
(procedure "setConfig" line 4)
invoked from within
"setConfig $ccallsign $ncallsign $cstartdate $nstartdate $cstarttime $nstarttime $ctitle $ntitle"
Thursday 19:48:26 : Attempting to recover
Thursday 19:48:56 : Woken up

Eventually it dies with "Too many errors, stopping"

I asume I have specified the pattern for the programme title incorrectly..... What should I have specified to be able to match "Apprentice", "The Apprentice", "The Apprentice US" etc???

Hmmm

Been reading this thread whilst restarting endpad, and it seems that the program name does not have to be an EXACT match, just ANY match - is that right

So "Apprentice" will match all the above without having to resort to wildcards/patterns??

[maxwells_daemon]

Hmmmm

I have the following line in endpad.config

programme "*apprentic*" endpad 15 # pad all Apprentices 15 minutes....

Now endpad crashes

...

Been reading this thread whilst restarting endpad, and it seems that the program name does not have to be an EXACT match, just ANY match - is that right

So "Apprentice" will match all the above without having to resort to wildcards/patterns??That's right. The text you give can be anywhere in the programme name. You can also include regular expressions (which are more powerful, but use a different syntax than the wildcards you tried), but you don't need them for this.

[daveh]

Being a complete linux ignoramus, can anybody help me with the problem I am getting trying to make endpad start automatically. I have put
/var/hack/endpad.tcl -config endpad.config -auto >> /dev/null &
into the last line in rc.sysinit.author within /etc/rc.d/
endpad.config is in /var/hack/
After Tivo has booted I see the message (in kernal.log)

couldn't open "endpad.config": no such file or directory

And then various messages indicating that endpad hasn't started.
If I then start endpad manually via telnet within /VAR/HACK/ using ./endpad.tcl -config endpad.config
then endpad starts successfully and picks up the parameters correctly and starts applying the start and end padding I requested. I have checked the parms but just can't see what I am doing wrong.

[maxwells_daemon]

I have put
/var/hack/endpad.tcl -config endpad.config -auto >> /dev/null &
into the last line in rc.sysinit.author within /etc/rc.d/
endpad.config is in /var/hack/
After Tivo has booted I see the message (in kernal.log)

couldn't open "endpad.config": no such file or directory


Unlike your manual run, the startup scripts probably have a different current directory, so endpad.config won't be found in that directory. You can specify /var/hack/endpad.config explicitly. You could also "cd /var/hack" before the endpad.tcl command, but it is just possible that will screw up anything that runs after.

But you shouldn't need to specify -config endpad.config at all. If you don't specify a -config option, entpad.tcl looks for a config file in the directory where endpad.tcl is located, ie. /var/hack.

[daveh]

Great stuff. Removing the -config parameter altogether, as you suggested, does the trick nicely and everything starts up correctly. Thanks.

[itm]

I have a pre-newbie question (i.e. I haven't installed Endpad yet): I would like to forcibly add an extra 5 minutes to the end of every programme (i.e. regardless of clashes), except where a scheduled recording immediately follows it on the same channel. Is this possible with Endpad?

[jonphil]

Yes that's just how Enpad works. It will add on how much you want as long as nothing is scheduled afterwards.
You can also get it to do the same for the beginning of a program.

[aerialplug]

Wow, I've been using Endpad for a very long time now but I had no idea it was so configurable. Should have RTFM I guess! I had no idea it could be configured to work differently on different channels and even pinpoint specific programmes for different treatment!

Good show.

[itm]

Yes that's just how Enpad works. It will add on how much you want as long as nothing is scheduled afterwards.
You can also get it to do the same for the beginning of a program.

From the readme file I thought that it would only add padding if this didn't cause a clash with another recording. If I have 2 back-to-back recordings on the same channel I can see that it would work, as there would be no "clash". However if the 2nd programme is on a different channel I would want it to cancel that 2nd recording in favour of adding 5 minutes to the first programme. Is this how endpad works by default?

[sanderton]

No. You need to set hard padding in the sason pass itself.

Idon't recall anyone ever suggesting there was a requirement for having it that way round!

[itm]

No. You need to set hard padding in the sason pass itself.

Idon't recall anyone ever suggesting there was a requirement for having it that way round!

Thanks. It always concerns me when my own thinking seems to be out of line with the majority - it usually means I haven't thought it through!

My rationale was that I always want to catch the end of programmes, even if they overrun. This would obviously require cancellation of any clashing programmes, except where the "clashing" programme is on the same channel.

If a clashing programme is cancelled I can always use Sky+ to record it instead, but only if I get warned of the clash in advance - which I suppose is the issue. Whereas Tivo will warn me of this (either at time of scheduling or via Recording History), Endpad can't warn me in advance, due to the just-in-time padding - it would simply not record the clashing programme.

I'll need to rethink this....

[hairyviking]

Hi,

For the last year or two I have been using endpad and love it. A recent hard drive death has meant I have had to start from scratch. I have got the tivo up and running with a new drive, and have got the cachecard installed again and have installed tivowebplus 1.3.1 which seems to work fine and some the new features (channel grid) look ace. Unfortunately I just cannot get either endpad or endpadplus running.

I have endpad.tcl (v1.5.1) in var/hack but when i try to start it using hackman I just get :

couldn't execute "/var/hack/endpad.tcl": no such file or directory

and I get the same if I try and run it from the bash prompt. I have spend hours on this now reading everything I could find.

any suggestions much appreciated.

cheers

[sanderton]

Bet you FTP'd it in TEXT or AUTO mode not BINARY.

The error message is subtly misleading. It's not saying that the endpad.tcl file can't be found, it's saying that it's trying to interpret the endbad.tcl file as a BASH script and the first line of code is generating the file not found. This happemns beacause transferring a file in text adds ctrl-M's to the end of each line, rendering them gibberish.

[hairyviking]

aghhhh i am never using FlashFXP for ftp again. I double checked my settings and was sure it was going over in binary mode, I mean I have selected Binary rather than auto or ascii.

2 seconds with bulletproof ftp and then endpadplus.tcl from the bash prompt and hey presto its up and running.

Thanks Sanderton. Man when I think of all the hours I have wasted over the last day or two. grrrrrr (should your post not say using ascii renders the files gibberish?)

:)

[sanderton]

(should your post not say using ascii renders the files gibberish?)

:)

Yes; amended in case someone does a search some time.

[itm]

I installled Endpad a couple of days ago, and have just had my first unexpected scheduling experience...I had set up Jonathan Ross (BBC1 22:35-23:35), followed by Jools Holland (BBC2 23:35), both on SP's with no hard start or end padding. It didn't record Jools Holland due to a "clash" with Jonathan Ross.

My Endpad config is very simple:
./endpad.tcl -f 0 -e 5 -n 2 -auto

The Endpad log is below:
Friday 23:30:00 : Recording {Friday Night with Jonathan Ross} on BBC1LDN now
Friday 23:30:00 : Recording Scheduled End Time: 23:35
Friday 23:30:00 : Next recording is {Later with Jools Holland} on BBC2 at 23:35
Friday 23:30:00 : Gap to next programme is 0 seconds
Friday 23:30:00 : Need to add 120 seconds of negative padding to {Later with Jools Holland}
Friday 23:30:00 : Original start time for {Later with Jools Holland} is 84900
Friday 23:30:00 : New start time is 85020
Friday 23:30:01 : Cancelled old recording
Friday 23:30:01 : Creating Recording...
Friday 23:30:01 : Creating Showing...
Friday 23:30:01 : Done.
Friday 23:30:01 : Gap to next programme is now 120 seconds
Friday 23:30:01 : Added 120 seconds end padding to {Friday Night with Jonathan Ross} on BBC1LDN
Friday 23:30:01 : Next end padding setting due 00:35
Friday 23:30:01 : Can't add start padding to {Later with Jools Holland}
Friday 23:30:01 : No start padding requested
Friday 23:30:01 : Start padding of 0 seconds already set
Friday 23:30:01 : Next start padding setting due 23:47
Friday 23:30:01 : Next wake up will be 23:47
Sleeping, checking every minute for kill signal..................
Friday 23:47:00 : Woken up

Have I missed something here?

The Recording History shows:
Fri 10th Nov 23:35 BBC2 Later with Jools Holland no episode title
won't be recorded because it conflicts with
it also conflicts with
Fri 10th Nov 22:35 BBC1LDN Friday Night with Jonathan Ross no episode title

[Fozzie]

I think you might find this is just one of those unfortunate cirumstances where the 2nd recording hasn't been successfully re-scheduled after negative padding has been applied; annoying but not a lot you can do.

I do recall (before I crossed to the dark side) that occassionally this would happen to me. I don't think there was ever a resolution.

[itm]

I think you might find this is just one of those unfortunate cirumstances where the 2nd recording hasn't been successfully re-scheduled after negative padding has been applied; annoying but not a lot you can do.

I do recall (before I crossed to the dark side) that occassionally this would happen to me. I don't think there was ever a resolution.

Hmmm....that's a little worrying. How occasionally would this happen?

Pardon my ignorance, but "the dark side" ??

[Fozzie]

Hmmm....that's a little worrying. How occasionally would this happen?It only happened a couple of times, running endpad for several months.

Pardon my ignorance, but "the dark side" ??Sky HD ;)

[AMc]

First a confession - when I added endpad I missed the final step in the installation and didn't make a donation to Cancer Research via the link in the first post. I've done that now.

I'm upgrading my parents' Tivo as a Christmas present. I did my own back in the day so I'm fairly confident about that. They don't have net access near their TV or any desire to have it so they're not getting a network card but endpad is so handy I'd like to add it at the same time. I've never felt the need to alter the config of mine so I'm not worried about them not being able to do that and if it gets zapped so be it.

Is it possible to install endpad using a boot CD a la the network card drivers?
Can anyone point a linux confused but reasonably techie person towards any helpful instructions?

Thanks in advance!

[Rob Moss]

Is it possible to install endpad using a boot CD a la the network card drivers?
Can anyone point a linux confused but reasonably techie person towards any helpful instructions?

As a not-reasonably-techie, I'd be interested to know this too - my HDD is being replaced imminently, and I'd like to be able to install Endpad when I upgrade.

A cretin-proof step-by-step guide would be very handy, please and thanks! :o

[Pete77]

As a not-reasonably-techie, I'd be interested to know this too - my HDD is being replaced imminently, and I'd like to be able to install Endpad when I upgrade.

Clearly Endpad is a program that lives on the hard drive and can be summoned by the Tivo bootup process if the startup files are suitably modified and does not need TivoWeb or a network card to run.

However as things stand none of the upgrade to larger hard drive processes provide for installing Endpad. Really what needs to happen is to put a Cachecard or Turbonet card in the box and add the files for EndPad and do the rc.sysinit file modification to get Endpad to start on machine boot and then deinstall the Cachecard and drivers. Then if you needed to ever modify anything you could always stick your own Cachcecard back in at a later stage. I think between you and your parents box you need to have at least one Turbonet card or Cachcard that you can share for these kinds of upgrades.

[AMc]

I believe that a serial connection can be brought up on a virgin Tivo with the right lead - which I just happen to have from my Philips Pronto remote.
I have definitely read about installing endpad a serial connection.
I may be able to go that way before backing up the old drive then upgrade with a pre-endpadded image.
Note the large number of 'mights' in that paragraph :(

What I imagine I need to do otherwise is...
Run the upgrade process then with the active partition mounted (still from the upgrade?)
Create a directory called /var/hack
Copy endpad.tcl to /var/hack
run chmod 755 endpad.tcl to make it executable (assuming I can do this from the upgrade CD)
Then copy a suitably modified rc.sysinit.author to /etc/rc.d/ - luckily I can get one of those from my Tivo.

My only worry is that being a linux idiot I will break the file system somehow or simply be unable to get the files onto a media I can access after the upgrade while keeping Linux running on the PC.

I know not to mess with rc.sysinit as it might not boot up if I do it wrong, while .author is relatively safe.

I would sooner buy them a new Tivo than extract mine from under the TV for the 3rd time in 3 weeks then take my precious cachecard off the motherboard.

I can feel a day in the archives before the weekend. I'll try and put together notes on what I did if I can get it to work.

[Pete77]

I would sooner buy them a new Tivo than extract mine from under the TV for the 3rd time in 3 weeks then take my precious cachecard off the motherboard.

I can feel a day in the archives before the weekend. I'll try and put together notes on what I did if I can get it to work.

But don't you think they might get into TivoWeb after a while given its greater convenience and functionality. Perhaps you could go for a Cachecard too and make it their next couple of birthday presents as well, then add the RAM later when they have more recordings on the disk and it may have slowed down a little in Now Playing.

Also even if you don't add a Cachecard what about also installing Autospace which replaces the Now Playing words with that nice bar graph showing how many recordings are on the disk in Total and in Save Until I Delete, Save Until Expiry Date and Suggestions categories. Also what about running bufferhack.tcl which would let you give them say an hour or 90 minutes live buffer instead of the standard 60 minutes. Again that does not need a network card or TivoWeb
as once its run its a permanent conversion of the live buffer size.

Having said all the above I have looked at buying my mum a Tivo with Lifetime Sub, larger hard rive Cachecard and RAM but the £300+ required is a bit of a stretch when I can't be sure she would manage to learn how to drive it properly although she is always complaining there isn't enough decent stuff on tv to watch when she sits down to watch it.

[AMc]

But don't you think they might get into TivoWeb after a while given its greater convenience and functionality. Perhaps you could go for a Cachecard too and make it their next couple of birthday presents as well, then add the RAM later when they have more recordings on the disk and it may have slowed down a little in Now Playing.
Then I'd also need to add a wireless bridge and then open up the "AMc free tech support line" again to get it configured. And once it had gone horribly wrong I'd have to budget a 300 mile round trip to fix it.
The disk upgrade is the present, adding EP is something I'll do if I can because it's so phenomenally useful and is completely foolproof. There is always the danger that var/hack will get wiped out and it will disappear but the benefits outweigh the drawbacks there.

[Pete77]

The disk upgrade is the present, adding EP is something I'll do if I can because it's so phenomenally useful and is completely foolproof. There is always the danger that var/hack will get wiped out and it will disappear but the benefits outweigh the drawbacks there.

/var/hack doesn't usually get wiped so long as the size of the swap file in the initial large drive set up was adequate and the hard drive isn't on the way out causing regular Tivo reboots and/or the local power supply in your parent's area isn't dodgy causing power blackouts of only a few seconds several times in a row again causing repeated Tivo reboots.

18 months with no lost /var/hack and counting here though, although I do have the whole of var/hack backed up just in case.

I think autospace.tcl is probably also worth considering installing along with endpad.tcl because it provides a lot of information on how full up with recordings the hard drive is.

I appreciate your point about not making the whole set up too complex if you live 300 miles away.

[Rob Moss]

Clearly Endpad is a program that lives on the hard drive and can be summoned by the Tivo bootup process if the startup files are suitably modified and does not need TivoWeb or a network card to run.

Hmm..., so there's no way to install it if you don't have a cachecard or TiVoWeb..? :(

I presume you need these in order to FTP things to your TiVo (cretinous question, sorry!) ..?

[Pete77]

Hmm..., so there's no way to install it if you don't have a cachecard or TiVoWeb..? :(

I presume you need these in order to FTP things to your TiVo (cretinous question, sorry!) ..?

You can in theory do it via an FTP connection over the Serial port on the Tivo connected directly to your computer too but once most people have started to connect to the Tivo from their PC they become addicted and want a Cachecard or Turbonet card to run TivoWeb etc as well.

[maxwells_daemon]

Is it possible to install endpad using a boot CD a la the network card drivers?

...

What I imagine I need to do otherwise is...
Run the upgrade process then with the active partition mounted (still from the upgrade?)
Create a directory called /var/hack
Copy endpad.tcl to /var/hack
run chmod 755 endpad.tcl to make it executable (assuming I can do this from the upgrade CD)
Then copy a suitably modified rc.sysinit.author to /etc/rc.d/ - luckily I can get one of those from my Tivo.I think this is the way to go. It should be relatively safe, but if you manage to screw up your filesystem, you'll still have the backup (you plan to make one, right? :) ). If you can setup the serial connection at the same time (note that this is not enabled to start with), then it's possible to connect to the running TiVo and check the endpad logs to check that it's starting up OK. If it doesn't work, you may be able to fix it via the serial cable. Otherwise, you can put the drive back in your PC and check the logs from there.

Sorry, no step-by-step instructions, but feel free to ask for more details on any points that aren't clear. Maybe when you've done it, you could post some step-by-step instructions for the next person :)

Tim.

[maxwells_daemon]

A couple of extra tips (following my last post):

If you are upgrading to a new drive, then your old drive can serve as backup. I didn't mean to imply that making an additional backup was necessary.

It can be a lot quicker to test booting your TiVo (and checking that you can connect with the serial cable and that endpad is running) before you screw down the new drives and replace the cover. If things don't work, it's then easy to put the drive back into your PC to take a look. Of course, be careful not to touch anything inside the TiVo case while the power is on (an electocuted son/daughter is not a good Christmas present for your parents :D ). You don't need to connect any other cables at this stage.

[AMc]

Thanks maxwells_daemon

I've already answered some of my questions...
I've copied vanilla backups from a helpful forum member onto the FAT32 drive I will use to run a back up from my parents' Tivo. It then occurred to me I could copy endpad.tcl, my rc.sysinit.author on there at the same time (doh!). If I can access the backup then I should be able to access the other files too :).
I booted up from CD without a tivo hard drive and while tests of chmod and cp etc. failed with errors about read only media I didn't get any "command not found" problems which is encouraging. I also checked and Joe is on the boot CD.

Now I just need Citilink to actually deliver as opposed to putting an imaginary card through my door when I waited in all day yesterday :( It's been loaded on the van again today according to their tracking, fingers crossed.

[Pete77]

I reckon your parents might also appreciate autospace which can be started in rcsysinit like Endpad can and gives an onscreen graphical bar at the top of the Now Playing screen of the total number of recordings and those set as Save Until I Delete, Save Until Expiry Date and merely Suggestions.

See http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-v...ad.php?t=153732

[doubledrat]

Hmm..., so there's no way to install it if you don't have a cachecard or TiVoWeb..? :(

I presume you need these in order to FTP things to your TiVo (cretinous question, sorry!) ..?

you can actually install things via a serial connection and "zmodem". Windows hyperterminal does this.

once you have a shell prompt on your tivo (which you can get by going through the factory menu (alledgedly ;) )) you can receive a file (VERY slowly) to the current directory by typing

rz

and then using the send file command from hyperterminal

[AMc]

Well it looks like I fall at the first hurdle here :(

I've successfully backed up their original 40GB A drive, restored to the new drive and run copykern using the Boot CD linked here. http://www.steveconrad.co.uk/tivo/upgrade3.html
That works in the Tivo.

But my lack of any knowledge of linux or the tivo file system lets me down.
I can't 'find' the tivo file system to access it booted with that CD.

If I use the cachecard boot CD from silicondust then I can mount /dev/hdc4 and 9 (not 7) on the newly upgraded drive but I can't mount the FAT drive with the other files to copy them?

As I have no idea how to edit an ISO to add the files to either image I'm looking like tomorrow's goose i.e. stuffed :(

So I have a 'safe' and working backup so now I'm rerunning the backup, keeping recordings with "mfsbackup -Tao - /dev/hda | mfsrestore -s 300 -r 4 -xzpi - /dev/hdc".
With DMA enabled it looks like it'll take about another hour.

If anyone can point me in the right direction as to how I should boot to be able to mount the tivo file system and the FAT drive or a floppy disk drive I'd be grateful.

Merry Christmas!

[AMc]

With DMA enabled it looks like it'll take about another hour....or a lot longer as it seems to be moving v e r y s l o w l y a t t h e m o m e n t.

[Pete77]

As I have no idea how to edit an ISO to add the files to either image I'm looking like tomorrow's goose i.e. stuffed :(

So I have a 'safe' and working backup so now I'm rerunning the backup, keeping recordings with "mfsbackup -Tao - /dev/hda | mfsrestore -s 300 -r 4 -xzpi - /dev/hdc".
With DMA enabled it looks like it'll take about another hour.

If anyone can point me in the right direction as to how I should boot to be able to mount the tivo file system and the FAT drive or a floppy disk drive I'd be grateful.


Am I right in thinking you have your own Tivo with a network card of some kind (from your previous posts) in addition to your parents Tivo?

If so why don't you take your drive(s) out of your Tivo and sling you parents new drive in it then ftp the files you need across with Filezilla or Cute FTP or whatever (presumably already installed on your normal PC) and edit the rcsysinit.author file as appropriate with Joe. Then having checked that Endpad, Autospace, setpri or whatever else are working properly and rebooting ok in your own Tivo you return the drives to your parents Tivo.

Of course now I'm forgetting precisely what you need to install to have FTP working on your parents new drive. Is that bundled with TivoWeb somehow - can't remember. No doubt the Steveconrad guide covers this point or blindlemon can advise.

[AMc]

By the by, if you use a Belkin KVM switch that uses scroll lock, scroll lock then 1 and scroll lock, scroll lock then 2 to switch between 2 computers, don't use it during a backup and restore keeping recordings.
It seems to pause the copy when you press scroll lock. :) !

[doubledrat]

are you "byteswapping" your tivo drives? you need to to be able to see them in linux. get the knoppix lite 3.3 boot cd (google it) and at boot press f2 and get it to "swapdata" on your tivo drive(s)

hope that helps

[doubledrat]

ok, having read your post more carefully ;-)

are you byteswapping your fat drive? you shouldn't

[Pete77]

are you "byteswapping" your tivo drives? you need to to be able to see them in linux. get the knoppix lite 3.3 boot cd (google it) and at boot press f2 and get it to "swapdata" on your tivo drive(s)

hope that helps

I imagine the www.tivoheaven.co.uk Hooch download does this too on a more Tivo specific basis?

[AMc]

Hmmm well I think I've cracked it as in I've made a hack folder on partition 9 with endpad in it chmodded to executable and I've successfully added an rc.sysinit.author file on partition 4 and chmodded that too.
I'm waiting on a couple of test recordings before I'll know - as it is totally blind then I'm just going to have to be patient and see what the recordings do.
I've got some notes which I'll type up if I've worked it out.
Thanks for your suggestions.

[doubledrat]

AMc rather than being blind, turn on backdoors and check out the endpad.log log file.

[doubledrat]

did you also enable serial access by putting

/bin/bash < /dev/ttyS3 >& /dev/ttyS3 &

in your sysinit.author?

it means you can make small tweaks without pulling the drive. well worth doing

[AMc]

Thanks again for the advice.

I've tested with a couple of manual recordings and it's working the backdoors thing is a good idea - just need to read up on how to do it again :) I've added that line for serial before screwing the drive back in place but other than ensuring Tivo boots I don't have time to test that tonight. I've set another couple of manual recordings using a DVD player as a signal source to make sure the padding is there.

I've kept some notes which I'll tidy up and post here when I get a chance over the next couple of days.

Merry Christmas!

[itm]

I just noticed that Endpad hasn't been doing any padding since Monday, and found the following in the log. Does this look familiar to anyone?

Monday 19:55:31 : no such object: dbobj6328 dbobj6329
while executing
"dbobj $programsource fsid"
("uplevel" body line 18)
invoked from within
"uplevel $body"
invoked from within
"transaction {uplevel $body}"
(procedure "RetryTransaction" line 4)
invoked from within
"RetryTransaction {
set rec [db $db openid $recfsid]

set programsourcefsid 0
set showing [dbobj $rec get Showing]
set station [dbobj $..."
(procedure "AddNegativeStartPadding" line 65)
invoked from within
"AddNegativeStartPadding $nextrecfsid $negativepaddingtoadd"
Monday 19:55:31 : Attempting to recover
Monday 19:55:31 : Too many errors, stopping

[maxwells_daemon]

I just noticed that Endpad hasn't been doing any padding since Monday, and found the following in the log. Does this look familiar to anyone?

Monday 19:55:31 : no such object: dbobj6328 dbobj6329Hi Ian,

Yes, this is an occasional problem with the negative padding feature that has been reported before. I have considered a fix, but I don't know what causes this situation (multiple ProgramSources for the recording), so don't know how to handle it (copy none, first, or all ProgramSources?).

I could provide a fix to prevent the crash (handling it somehow or other), but I don't use the negative padding myself, so would need help testing it. Any volunteers?

Tim.

[itm]

I'd be an obvious candidate to test any fix - happy to help out

[AMc]

I have managed to install endpad without a network card or serial access on my folks' Tivo ... If you can afford to I would heartily recommend fitting a network card so you can play with endpad without removing the drive all the time and you can use Tivoweb etc. but these steps should work.

I reiterate I am NOT any kind of Linux expert so if the terms are inaccurate or confusing let me know. If you have comments or corrections I'll edit this post so there isn't conflicting information. If it really isn't helpful I'll pull it completely.

- I used a boot CD that came with my cachecard from Tivoheaven (that might be a bit of a stumbler for you) you could try the boot CD ISO from here http://tivo.stevejenkins.com/network_cd.html#_Toc101001746. If it has Joe it should work otherwise you'll have to hunt another disc down.

I referenced most stuff from http://tivo.stevejenkins.com/network_cd.html I would read the whole page before you start so you get an idea about what you're doing and how the Tivo file system works, it may even encourage you to fit a network card.


As Steve Jenkins guide mentions, standard Tivos will have 2 operating system partions (partition 4 and 7) one is live and the other is a backup. There is also a 'special' partition that holds user settings (partition 9, known as /var in the Tivo filesystem). An upgraded Tivo will only have one operating system partition either 4 or 7. A standard system with both will need the same changes to partition 4 and 7 as either could be live.


1 - Download endpad and make a boot CD
First with a hard drive with a FAT32 partition attached to your PC in Windows download endpad from the first post here into somewhere you will be able to remember and find (i.e. G:\) and unzip the files. Download an ISO boot disk and burn the image (not the file) using Nero, NeroExpress etc. to make a bootable CDROM


2 - Open the Tivo and get the drive out
[Open the case, remove the Tivo A drive from the unit taking the normal safety precautions about static electricity and avoiding killing yourself on the Tivo power supply - if these things worry you you may want to reconsider what you're doing to your Tivo]


3 -Connect up the drives in your PC
As per most upgrade instructions I set up my PC with
Primary Master - hda - hard drive with a single FAT32 parition with endpad copied to the root \.
Primary Slave - hdb - empty
Secondary Master - hdc - Tivo A drive
Secondary Slave - hdd - CDROM drive with boot CD

I disconnected my Windows XP drive so there was no danger of booting into Windows and spoiling my Tivo disk.


4 - Boot into Linux
I booted up the PC making sure all the devices are on the correct hd (n)
reference and are indicated as the right sizes in case the Tivo drive is locked etc. Use Shift+Page Up to see what happened when you booted.


5 - Make some directories to reference the copy of endpad and the tivo partitions...
mkdir /mnt/dos
mkdir /mnt4
mkdir /mnt7
mkdir /mnt9


6 - Mount the FAT32 disk partition with endpad on it as /mnt/dos
(hda refers to the Primary Master and 1 refers to the first partion).
mount /dev/hda1 /mnt/dos


7 - Mount the Tivo partitions to /mntn...
First the operating system partitions(hdc refers to the Secondary Master, 4 refers to the fourth partion and 7 the seventh)
mount /dev/hdc4 /mnt4
mount /dev/hdc7 /mnt7
(My attempt to mount 7 failed with "Must specify filesystem" probably due to the Tivo upgrade. That meant I only needed to make changes on partitions 4 and 9.)


8 - Mount partition 9 or /var
(hdc refers to the Secondary Master, 9 refers to the ninth partion)
mount /dev/hdc9 /mnt9


9 (Optional) - At this point if you don't have an original drive safely stored or a recent backup I would strongly recommend making one onto that FAT32 drive in case it all goes horribly wrong http://www.newreleasesvideo.com/hinsdale-how-to/


10 - Move to the start up folder on partition 4
cd /mnt4/etc/rc.d


11 - Using the Joe text editor create a user boot file
The file (rc.sysinit.author) is called by the standard Tivo boot file (rc.sysinit). This will allow your Tivo to boot even if your modifications are wrong and don't work! If you edit the Tivo file (rc.sysinit) and do it wrong your Tivo may not boot at all.
joe rc.sysinit.author


12 - Add the endpad start up line
Your endpad settings may vary from mine check the settings with endpad for configuration options.
#!/bin/bash
/var/hack/endpad.tcl -s 1 -e 6 -sugqual 75 -sugeq -auto >> /dev/null &


13 - Exit Joe saving the new file
Press Control+K together then X to save the file and exit Joe.


14 - Make your new rc.sysinit.author file executable
chmod 755 rc.sysinit.author


15 (Optional) - If you have a 7 partion you need to repeat steps 10-14 on the other opertating system partition. The only difference will be when you move to the start up folder on partition 7 you use the mnt7 directory
cd /mnt7/etc/rc.d


16 - Change to the /var partion on 9
cd /mnt9


17 - Make a hack folder
mkdir /mnt9/hack


18 - Copy endpad.tcl from the backup drive
cp /mnt/dos/endpad.tcl /mnt9/hack


19 - And make it executable
chmod 755 endpad.tcl


20 - Shut down
Press control+alt+delete and wait for everything to shut down. When the PC begins to boot again pull the plug.


21 - Connect the Tivo A drive in Tivo and test it.
Be very careful if you're running the Tivo without the case as that power supply is potentially harzardous to you

Remember to give endpad plenty of time between scheduling a recording and it starting. Endpad only wakes up now and again to look at the To Do list, if you schedule a recording in 5 minutes it may not see it in time to pad it, making you think it isn't working. I scheduled recordings 35 and 55 minutes in advance. Once complete their running times in Now Playing showed they had been padded.

21 - Say thanks!
Once you've got it running make a donation via the link in the first post in this thread to say thanks!

You may want to enable backdoors to view the endpad logs, I haven't done this so have a search for how it is done here.

I also added this line to rc.sysinit.author after the endpad line which Doubledrat's post suggests enables serial access. I have no reason to assume it didn't work, it didn't prevent Tivo from booting or endpad from working but I never tested it and the Tivo is now 150 miles away so I won't be doing so soon :)
/bin/bash < /dev/ttyS3 >& /dev/ttyS3 &

As mentioned elsewhere, some things (like a guided setup) may rebuild the /var partition and you will have to remove the drive and repeat steps 16-19 to put endpad back again.

If you can afford to I would heartily recommend fitting a network card (Turbonet, Terbonet, Airnet or Cachecard) so you can play with endpad etc. without removing the drive all the time.

Many thanks to those who made this interesting and useful addition to a standard Tivo, I hope my post helps someone else in the same spirit.

[maxwells_daemon]

I just noticed that Endpad hasn't been doing any padding since Monday, and found the following in the log. Does this look familiar to anyone?

Monday 19:55:31 : no such object: dbobj6328 dbobj6329Yes, this is an occasional problem with the negative padding feature that has been reported before. I have considered a fix, but I don't know what causes this situation (multiple ProgramSources for the recording), so don't know how to handle it (copy none, first, or all ProgramSources?).

I could provide a fix to prevent the crash (handling it somehow or other), but I don't use the negative padding myself, so would need help testing it. Any volunteers?You can find a version that purports to fix this problem (as well as a few other minor changes (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/maxwells.daemon/tivo/downloads/endpad-changes.txt)) in endpad-1.5.2.zip (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/maxwells.daemon/tivo/downloads/endpad-1.5.2.zip). Can you try it out?

If you have some time, it might be good to make a few experiments, since I was not able reproduce the circumstances of the crash. I made a small program in todo-1.0.zip (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/maxwells.daemon/tivo/downloads/todo-1.0.zip). Extract ToDo.tcl and run it to list all the programmes on the To Do list. For season passes, it also lists the ProgramSource Series title. The crash occurred when there was more than one ProgramSource. It would be interesting to see when this occurs - unfortunately (or fortunately for me!) I have not seen this on either of my TiVos. You can see it more easily by using the ToDo.tcl -p option, eg../ToDo.tcl -p 2which only lists programmes with 2 or more ProgramSource entries (for me, this lists nothing).

If you do see that, you can try setting a negative padding for that programme. I made a new test option for endpad.tcl to help:./endpad.tcl -n 1 -debug -negfsid NNNNNNNwhere NNNNNNN is the FSID number that ToDo.tcl printed (at the beginning of the line). That will unconditionally set the negative padding for that programme ahead of time. You can then see whether the To Do list picks up the changes (I've noticed when setting negative padding ahead of time that the original time gets restored after a bit). See the new "DEBGUGGING OPTIONS" section in readme.txt (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/maxwells.daemon/tivo/downloads/endpad-readme.txt) for more details of the new -negfsid (and -fsid) options.

Let us know what you find. If people seem happy with the new version, I'll update the head post of this thread.

Tim.

[itm]

I've installed and started your version of Endpad.

When I ran ToDo.tcl -p 2 I got this:

TiVo Bash:/var/hack> ./ToDo.tcl -p 2
no such object:
while executing
"dbobj $seriesobj get Title"
("foreach" body line 3)
invoked from within
"foreach programsource [dbobj $rec get ProgramSource] {
set seriesobj [dbobj $programsource get Series]
lappend series [dbobj $seriesob..."
("uplevel" body line 11)
invoked from within
"uplevel $body"
invoked from within
"transaction {uplevel $body}"
(procedure "RetryTransaction" line 5)
invoked from within
"RetryTransaction {
set rec [db $db openid $recfsid]
if {$version >= 3} {
set recbeh [dbobj $rec get RecordingBehavior]
set selecti..."
("uplevel" body line 4)
invoked from within
"uplevel $body"
invoked from within
"ForeachMfsFile fsid name type "/Recording/Active" "4:" {
scan $name "%d:%d:%d:%d" rectype recstartdate recstarttime recfsid

RetryTransaction {
..."
(file "./ToDo.tcl" line 35)
TiVo Bash:/var/hack>
TiVo Bash:/var/hack>

[maxwells_daemon]

I've installed and started your version of Endpad.

When I ran ToDo.tcl -p 2 I got this:

TiVo Bash:/var/hack> ./ToDo.tcl -p 2
no such object:
while executing
"dbobj $seriesobj get Title"Ah, looks like there are some Series entries that don't have Titles. I wonder what they are. I tried a repeating manual recording, but that didn't show up in this list as a series.

Anyway, can you try todo-1.1.zip (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/maxwells.daemon/tivo/downloads/todo-1.1.zip) and see if that works any better? It now prints the FSID for the series object, but should only show the title if it exists.

Tim.

[itm]

OK I found a recording with more than one program source, then tried:

./endpad.tcl -n 1 -debug -negfsid NNNNNNN on it.

A couple of issues:
- The above command echoed its output to the telnet window, but I didn't get the bash prompt back, so I had to hit Ctrl-C and Tivo rebooted
- from the output of the command, it seemed to cancel my global endpad/negpad options (endpad.tcl -f 0 -e 5 -n 2) - I thought that this would only act on the item identified by NNNNNNN?

I think I may have misunderstood something....

[maxwells_daemon]

OK I found a recording with more than one program source, then tried:

./endpad.tcl -n 1 -debug -negfsid NNNNNNN on it.

A couple of issues:
- The above command echoed its output to the telnet window, but I didn't get the bash prompt back, so I had to hit Ctrl-C and Tivo rebooted
- from the output of the command, it seemed to cancel my global endpad/negpad options (endpad.tcl -f 0 -e 5 -n 2) - I thought that this would only act on the item identified by NNNNNNN?

I think I may have misunderstood something....I'm sorry, my bad. It was ignoring the -negfsid option unless both -n and -e were specified (I was fooled, because I had -e in my config file). Version 1.5.2 also had some other bugs, so please try endpad-1.5.3.zip (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/maxwells.daemon/tivo/downloads/endpad-1.5.3.zip). This version uses the command-line -n value if the -negfsid debugging option is specified. With -negfsid, the config file options are ignored (though still printed).

By the way, if you do get stuck with endpad.tcl running in the foreground (a result of the -debug option), you should beware of Ctrl-C, which will cause the whole TiVo to reboot. Of course that might be the only option available to you, but in this case you could have run endpad.tcl -stop from another telnet session.

Tim.

[itm]

By the way, if you do get stuck with endpad.tcl running in the foreground (a result of the -debug option), you should beware of Ctrl-C, which will cause the whole TiVo to reboot. Of course that might be the only option available to you, but in this case you could have run endpad.tcl -stop from another telnet session.

Tim.

So if I run endpad with your suggested parameters, then need to run endpad.tcl -stop from another telnet session in order to close the original telnet session, won't endpad stop running altogether?

[TCM2007]

It won't close the telnet session, it will just stop endpad.

[itm]

That's what I meant - I want to close the telnet session, but without stopping endpad....or do I need to leave the original telnet session open indefinitely in order to check the results?

[TCM2007]

If you're running it in debug mode, don't close the session (why would you want to?).

[itm]

OK I've tried to set the negative padding for the first of the multiple source entries (tomorrow night's Corrie), but it didn't recreate the ToDo item. Output below:

TiVo Bash:/var/hack> ./endpad.tcl -n 1 -debug -negfsid 3945013
Thursday 22:35:16 :
Thursday 22:35:16 : endpad.tcl 1.5.3 log file, starting up
Thursday 22:35:16 : Start padding set to 0 seconds
Thursday 22:35:16 : End padding set to 0 seconds
Thursday 22:35:16 : Negative start padding set to 0 seconds
Thursday 22:35:16 : Force Negative startpadding is 0
Thursday 22:35:16 : Suggestions will be padded, even if that means cancelling a
subsequent suggestion
Thursday 22:35:16 : Detected TiVo software version 2.5.5-01-1-023
Thursday 22:35:16 : Suggestion quality change disabled
Thursday 22:35:16 : Timezone 00:00
Thursday 22:35:16 : Sorted configuration options (last match used):-
Thursday 22:35:16 : startpad 0 endpad 0 negpad 1 forceneg 0 maxneg -1 sugqual
-1
Thursday 22:35:16 : Original start time for {Coronation Street} is 70200
Thursday 22:35:16 : New start time is 70260
Thursday 22:35:16 : Cancelled old recording
Thursday 22:35:16 : Creating Recording...
no such object: dbobj13 dbobj14
while executing
"dbobj $recording set ProgramSource $ps"
("uplevel" body line 15)
invoked from within
"uplevel $body"
invoked from within
"transaction {uplevel $body}"
(procedure "RetryTransaction" line 4)
invoked from within
"RetryTransaction {
log " Creating Recording..."
flush $logchan

set recording [ db $db create Recording ]
set newrecfsid [dbobj $reco..."
(procedure "AddNegativeStartPadding" line 96)
invoked from within
"AddNegativeStartPadding $negfsid [expr int($cmdopt(negpad) * 60)]"
(file "./endpad.tcl" line 1097)
TiVo Bash:/var/hack>

[maxwells_daemon]

OK, I see that you just posted the results of your test, so the following may no longer be relevant...

So if I run endpad with your suggested parameters, then need to run endpad.tcl -stop from another telnet session in order to close the original telnet session, won't endpad stop running altogether?I think you misunderstood. Here is the test I was suggesting.


Stop existing EndPad with ./endpad.tcl -stop
Install the new endpad.tcl (version 1.5.3) on your TiVo
Look for a programme with two ProgramSource entries, with
./ToDo.tcl -p 2You may have already done these first three steps.
See if the new EndPad can add negative start padding to the problematic programme. To do this without having to wait for it to come along, run
./endpad.tcl -n 1 -debug -negfsid NNNNNNNwhere NNNNNNN is the FSID you got from ToDo.tcl. This should add 1 minute negative start padding. This command should run and return you to the bash prompt (this didn't work with version 1.5.2).
Check whether it worked. The new start time should be displayed with ToDo.tcl, or in Tivoweb, or in the TiVo's To Do menu.
If it works, start EndPad normally, eg.
./endpad.tcl -f 0 -e 5 -n 2and leave it to run.
You may want to cancel and reschedule the programme you added negative padding to, since the padding may not actually be necessary for that recording. TiVo will probably do that of its own accord after a bit so, unless you care about that programme, you may just want to leave it.
My comment about using endpad.tcl -stop from another telnet session was just in the case where you were running it in the foreground and needed to stop it. That only happens if you use it with the -debug option and it doesn't stop, but it should now (with version 1.5.3) finish of its own accord when you run it with -negfsid.

Tim.

[itm]

Yep that's exactly what I did. The effect of running ./endpad.tcl -n 1 -debug -negfsid NNNNNNN for the FSID in question was that the programme was removed from my ToDo list. It seems that it deleted it then failed to re-create it.

[itm]

Ooops....sorry - I didn't wait long enough. It has now re-appeared on the ToDo list....with the same start time 19:30.

[maxwells_daemon]

OK I've tried to set the negative padding for the first of the multiple source entries (tomorrow night's Corrie), but it didn't recreate the ToDo item. Output below:
...
Thursday 22:35:16 : Creating Recording...
no such object: dbobj13 dbobj14
while executing
"dbobj $recording set ProgramSource $ps"OK, it obviously doesn't like to set multiple ProgramSource objects, even though "get" fetched them, so it crashed before recreating the recording (your subsequent observation was probably just TiVo noticing that it could schedule the recording afresh from the Season Pass).

Let's try another way of setting the multiple ProgramSource entries. Can you do the same test with endpad-1.5.4.zip (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/maxwells.daemon/tivo/downloads/endpad-1.5.4.zip)?

I just changed to using "dbobj $recording add ProgramSource" ("add" instead of "set") for each one. That worked for my test with just one ProgramSource, but I'll have to leave the real test to you, since I still don't have any of these multi-ProgramSource recordings.

Tim.

[itm]

OK that looks better. It rescheduled the programme with 1 minute negative padding. Here's the full audit:

TiVo Bash:/var/hack> ./ToDo.tcl -p 2
3967015 {Coronation Street} on ITV1LON (Series 728938 {Coronation Street}, 1165635) at 21/01/07 19:30
3967017 {Coronation Street} on ITV1LON (Series 728938 {Coronation Street}, 1165635) at 22/01/07 20:30
3969298 {Coronation Street} on ITV1LON (Series 728938 {Coronation Street}, 1165635) at 24/01/07 19:30
3969299 {Coronation Street} on ITV1LON (Series 728938 {Coronation Street}, 1165635) at 26/01/07 19:30
TiVo Bash:/var/hack>
TiVo Bash:/var/hack> ./endpad.tcl -n 1 -debug -negfsid 3967015
Friday 09:35:26 :
Friday 09:35:26 : endpad.tcl 1.5.4 log file, starting up
Friday 09:35:26 : Start padding set to 0 seconds
Friday 09:35:26 : End padding set to 0 seconds
Friday 09:35:26 : Negative start padding set to 0 seconds
Friday 09:35:26 : Force Negative startpadding is 0
Friday 09:35:26 : Suggestions will be padded, even if that means cancelling a subsequent suggestion
Friday 09:35:26 : Detected TiVo software version 2.5.5-01-1-023
Friday 09:35:26 : Suggestion quality change disabled
Friday 09:35:26 : Timezone 00:00
Friday 09:35:26 : Sorted configuration options (last match used):-
Friday 09:35:26 : startpad 0 endpad 0 negpad 1 forceneg 0 maxneg -1 sugqual -1
Friday 09:35:26 : Original start time for {Coronation Street} is 70200
Friday 09:35:26 : New start time is 70260
Friday 09:35:26 : Cancelled old recording
Friday 09:35:26 : Creating Recording...
Friday 09:35:26 : Creating Showing...
Friday 09:35:26 : Done.
TiVo Bash:/var/hack>
TiVo Bash:/var/hack> ./ToDo.tcl
3945013 {Coronation Street} on ITV1LON at 19/01/07 19:30
3945164 {Premiership Football} on SKYSP1 at 20/01/07 12:00
3945168 {How Do They Do It?} on DISCOV (Series 3442275 {How Do They Do It?}) at 20/01/07 19:00
3971887 {Mock the Week} on BBC2LDN (Series 2749639 {Mock the Week}) at 20/01/07 23:30
3969301 {Match of the Day} on BBC1LDN (Series 1031458 {Match of the Day}) at 21/01/07 07:35
3969313 {Coronation Street Omnibus} on ITV2 at 21/01/07 16:35
3980984 {Coronation Street} on ITV1LON (Series 728938 {Coronation Street}, 1165635) at 21/01/07 19:31
3971954 {Wild at Heart} on ITV1LON (Series 3971951 {Wild at Heart}) at 21/01/07 20:00

[maxwells_daemon]

Good, looks like 1.5.4 works. Can you try running with it for a bit, and if all seems fine, I'll update the head of this post.

I'd be interested to understand what that extra ProgramSource was. Do you have any ideas?

Tim.

[itm]

Will do - I'll let you know if I notice any problems.

I don't really understand the concept of multiple Program Sources, but could it be that there's an ITV1 on Sky and also an ITV1 on terrestrial TV? (even though only the terrestrial channel is ticked on "Channels You Receive")

[Pete77]

Will do - I'll let you know if I notice any problems.

I don't really understand the concept of multiple Program Sources, but could it be that there's an ITV1 on Sky and also an ITV1 on terrestrial TV? (even though only the terrestrial channel is ticked on "Channels You Receive")

Tivo has to deal with the whole database for each program source you say you have access to so it may be that for those channels that exist on both databases it still considers them to have a dual source in terms of working out which one to record.

[TCM2007]

No, ProgramSource is nothing to do with cable/satellite/aerial business; it points to the object that created a Recording object (ie, a Season Pass or Wishlist). If you have multiple SPs for the same show (can happen through TW) or show which is picked up by an SP and a Wishlist, then it can have multiple ProgramSource entries.

[itm]

Ahhh...in that's case it's because we've got a Corrie SP as well as a wishlist.

[maxwells_daemon]

Hi Ian,

Has EndPad 1.5.4 been behaving itself? If so, I'll update the version linked from the head of the thread.

Thanks,
Tim.

[itm]

Yes I haven't noticed any problems or crashes so far, so it looks good.

Thanks
Ian

[maxwells_daemon]

I have updated the version attached to the top of this thread. It's probably only worth updating from 1.5.0 or 1.5.1 if you use negative padding.

Yes I haven't noticed any problems or crashes so far, so it looks good.It's been working fine for me too, though I don't normally use negative padding, so your checks are more useful. Thanks!

[PhilG]

Is there a summary anywhere about the differences? I have v1.5.2....

[ericd121]

Is there a summary anywhere about the differences? I have v1.5.2....Reading from Post #161 (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4775526&&#post4775526), it would appear that Tim has fixed the "Negative Padding is killing my Recordings" problem;
as I suffered from this myself, I will be, cautiously, trying it out.

[maxwells_daemon]

Is there a summary anywhere about the differences? I have v1.5.2....You can find a summary of all recent changes here (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/maxwells.daemon/tivo/downloads/endpad-changes.txt). It's linked from the post at the top of this thread.

Version 1.5.2 was a test version (never attached to the head post), so you should probably upgrade from that. The last proper version was 1.5.1. No need to upgrade from that unless you use negative padding.

[itm]

Looks like a classic case of Sod's law - I discovered my first problem last night....

I had Coronation Street to record at 7:30 last night on ITV1, followed by Dragon's Den at 8pm on BBC2. Dragon's Den didn't get recorded.

My settings are:
endpad.tcl -f 0 -e 5 -n 2

The Recording History showed 2 entries for Dragon's Den:
20:00 Not recorded due to a higher priority Season Pass (Corrie)
20:02 No longer in program guide.

The 2nd of these 2 messages may have something to do with the fact that I recently switched to a dual-source setup (a Freeview box on RF channel 60). Since doing this I've found a few Season Passes which haven't recorded due to "no longer in program guide".

I'm not sure if this explains all of the above scenario, however...
:confused:

[RichardJH]

Is it possible to not have any endpad on manual recordings.

The reason is that I have some repeated 5min recordings set at basic with keep only 1 so that it stops my V+ box going into its resting mode.

But because I have endpad set for recordings at +5 all these manual recordings are ending up 10 mins long.

[Pete77]

My settings are: endpad.tcl -f 0 -e 5 -n 2

Mine are /var/hack/endpad.tcl -s 2 -e 4 -sugqual 0 -sugeq -auto >/dev/null 2>&1 &
What does -f do and why don't you have -s (start padding). Also what do you hope to achieve with the -n value?

I don't have the time or inclination to read up on the whole Endpad thread at the moment but if you do I'm sure you will find you are not using the right settings.

[itm]

-f forces negative padding even when no change of channel. It was so that the last couple of minutes of late-running programmes always stayed with the first programme.

These settings have served me well for a few months now - never had a problem apart from when Endpad crashed (which is where all this started).

I'm not too bothered about start padding - missing the start of programmes hasn't been a problem for me.

[maxwells_daemon]

Hi Ian,

I'm not sure what happened, but it might help to have a look at the logs. If you get to it today, could you post last night's /var/log/Oendpad.log (endpad.log is closed at midnight and saved in Oendpad.log).

Please post as an attachment so as not to take up lots of space in the thread.

Thanks,
Tim.

[maxwells_daemon]

I don't have the time or inclination to read up on the whole Endpad thread at the moment but if you do I'm sure you will find you are not using the right settings.Hi Pete,

All the options are documented in the readme (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/maxwells.daemon/tivo/downloads/endpad-readme.txt) (linked from the post at the head of this thread). I hope all the essential documentation is in that post, and it shouldn't be necessary to trawl through the entire post.

Tim.

[maxwells_daemon]

-f forces negative padding even when no change of channel. It was so that the last couple of minutes of late-running programmes always stayed with the first programme.But you said you used "-f 0". That is the default which only uses negative padding when the channel changes. You can use "-f 1" to force negative padding.

That said, I don't think this is relevant to the problem you reported.

Tim.

[maxwells_daemon]

Is it possible to not have any endpad on manual recordings.This may be possible if you can select the manual recordings by title and then use the configuration file to specify zero padding for those recordings. Let me know if you need help with this.

Tim.

[itm]

Hi Ian,

I'm not sure what happened, but it might help to have a look at the logs. If you get to it today, could you post last night's /var/log/Oendpad.log (endpad.log is closed at midnight and saved in Oendpad.log).

Please post as an attachment so as not to take up lots of space in the thread.

Thanks,
Tim.

Thanks - I've attached OEndpad.log.

[Pete77]

Hi Pete,

All the options are documented in the readme (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/maxwells.daemon/tivo/downloads/endpad-readme.txt) (linked from the post at the head of this thread). I hope all the essential documentation is in that post, and it shouldn't be necessary to trawl through the entire post.

Tim.

Is Negative Padding always starting the program a certain number of minutes after the billed start time? The only time I could see having a use for that would be with a program like Click, which is always padded out with a few minutes of news at the start? If negative padding means something else then what is it. The ReadMe doesn't explain what negative padding is and just seems to assume you should know.

[tym]

The ReadMe doesn't explain what negative padding is and just seems to assume you should know.The readme contains:
negpad W Start the following programme late to allow W minutes endpad
maxneg M Maximum late starting for matching programme is M minutes
forceneg Q If 1, do negative padding even if no channel change is required

Negative padding allows you to catch the end of a program by extending into the start of the following program. There are some examples in the readme as to why you might want to use each...

Well, not quite. Perhaps we should add another example for forceneg.

Tim

[Pete77]

Negative padding allows you to catch the end of a program by extending into the start of the following program. There are some examples in the readme as to why you might want to use each...

Well I would always have taken Negative endpadding to be the reverse of the normal process which can extend the recording at the Start (s) or End (e). My s and e endpadding does extend into the end of the previous program or the start of the next program so long as I don't have another recording scheuled before of after the program I am recording. If I do have programs recording before and afterwards back to back then there is no padding. How does Negative paddding vary from this? I could only imagine Negative Padding to be starting a recording x minutes late or finishing a recording x minutes early. There are some programs on BBC News 24 that include a news bulletin first where such an appoach might make sense.

I can see why one might want to Endpad some channels with different start and end ratings from other but now what this Negative padding is about precisely?

[tym]

what this Negative padding is about precisely?I don't know what scheduling is like where you are, but around here programs rarely run exactly to schedule (hence the need for endpad in the first place). If you are recording back-to-back programs on different channels then you often miss the end of the first program. In this situation, negative padding forces the following program to start recording late to allow end padding to be added to the earlier program so you can see the ending. You could also think of it as "forced end padding".

The forceneg option (-f) does this even if the back-to-back programs are on the same channel. This allows you to make recordings line up better with the shows so they can be archived or deleted more sensibly. The maxneg option (which only makes sense in the config file applied to particular channels/programs) stops negative padding from removing more than the defined amount from the start of matching programs.

Tim

[Pete77]

So its based on the theory that people mind missing the end of the program more than the beginning it would appear? Obviously if you have back to back programs and they are on different channels you have to lose one or the other from being recorded.

[Stradlingp]

I can see why one might want to Endpad some channels with different start and end ratings from other but now what this Negative padding is about precisely?

I agree, the name “Negative Padding” is a little confusing and doesn’t describe what is going on as well as it could.

What Negative padding actually does is steal part of the next programme (if required) and negatively pads that to allow the previous programme to extend into it.

Look at it as a “soft padding override” to ensure that a programme will always be padded irrespective.

The “negative padding” has to be attached to the programme you want to extend as the following programme is a variable so you couldn’t guarantee you were negatively padding the correct following programme all the time.

An option to clip a few minutes off the front of a programme might be useful (see my example of “This Week” below) but that would only be saving you small amounts of disc space and functionally, it has nothing to do with what Endpad is used for i.e. to ensure that recordings are not truncated at the start or finish.

The current Negative padding does the job of ensuring you get the end of a programme no matter what follows in the TV schedule.

Here is my attempt to describe the various types of padding using the real world example of recording the following two programs:-


Soccer Night ITV1 11:00 to 11:30

This Week BBC1 11:30 to 00:25


“Soccer Night” almost always starts late and frequently overruns by up to 5 minutes.

“This Week” often starts late due to the previous programme “Question Time” running late but it finishes on time or a little early.

Here is what happens with the various types of padding available on a TiVo with Endpad installed

No Padding

The last 5 mins of “Soccer Night” are missed.

“This Week” is fine but the end of “Question Time” is often recorded too.

TiVo Default Padding (a.k.a. Hard Padding)

E.g. 5 mins padding set in the Season Pass

“Soccer Night” is recorded OK including the end of the programme but the “Question Time” recording is cancelled as the hard padding causes the two programmes to clash!

Soft Padding (Sandertons superb original program)

A typical setting would be endpad.tcl –startpad 3 -endpad 5

“Soccer Night” records with an extra 3 mins at the start (not needed) but the last 5 mins will be missed as it would then clash with following programme and the padding is removed.

“Question Time” will be recorded with 5 mins unnecessary padding at the end.

This is the same situation as “No Padding” except you get an extra 5 mins at the end of “Question Time”.

Negative Padding (Maxwells_daemon’s et. al excellent extension of Endpad)

endpad.tcl –startpad 3 -endpad 5 –negpad 5

“Soccer Night” will be recorded as in Normal Padding but will be padded by 5 mins due to the negative padding stealing 5 mins of the next programme, in this case “This Week”.

This ensures that the last 5 mins of “Soccer Night” are always recorded even if there is another programme being scheduled immediately afterwards.

If Question Time starts late as normal, then none of that is missed.

An alternative setting would be

endpad.tcl –startpad 3 -endpad 5 –negpad 3

but in this real-life example when I used these settings, I missed the end of “Soccer Night” as it was running more than 3 mins late and had extra “Question Time” tacked on to the beginning of “This Week” I didn’t need.

The worst of both worlds!

I think most people would prefer to miss the beginning and not the end of programme so the –s 3 –e 5 –n 5 works well in this case.

Using the endpad.config file, I have tuned it as follows. NB. My endpad starts with no padding as default for any channel.


programme {Meridian Soccer Night} startpad 0 endpad 5 negpad 5
programme {This Week} startpad 5 endpad 0

channel SKYONE,BBC1STH,BBC2STH,BBC2,BBC3,BBC4,C4 ,ITV1TVS,ITV2,ITV3,ITV4,FILM4,FILM41,E4,E4P1 ,MORE4,MORE4P1 startpad 3 endpad 5

This setting soft pads the channels that can't stick to the schedules and has an override for the special case of "This Week" & "Soccer Night".

I hope this helps :eek:

[PhilG]

Perhaps "negative padding" should be renamed "forced padding" - the former always did confuse me (to me negative padding sounds like you want a program to finish EARLY not the next one to start LATE!!)

In fact, if I wanted the option to end a program early if another one overlapped with it that I thought had a higher priority, "negative padding" is EXACTLY what I'd call it!!

In my simple mind "forced padding" really does mean PAD THIS PROGRAM REGARDLESS (like Tivos padding does, which if I understand the above example, is what Tivo does BUT also doesn't cancel the following program??)

[maxwells_daemon]

Perhaps "negative padding" should be renamed "forced padding" - the former always did confuse me (to me negative padding sounds like you want a program to finish EARLY not the next one to start LATE!!)I agree the name is confusing. We can change the documentation. Should we also change the option/config names (negpad, forceneg, and maxneg, as well as short forms, -f and -n)? Any suggestions?

If we do change the option names, we really should keep the old ones as aliases, so people don't have to change their setup if they upgrade to the new version.

Tim.

[maxwells_daemon]

I had Coronation Street to record at 7:30 last night on ITV1, followed by Dragon's Den at 8pm on BBC2. Dragon's Den didn't get recorded.

My settings are:
endpad.tcl -f 0 -e 5 -n 2

The Recording History showed 2 entries for Dragon's Den:
20:00 Not recorded due to a higher priority Season Pass (Corrie)
20:02 No longer in program guide.

The 2nd of these 2 messages may have something to do with the fact that I recently switched to a dual-source setup (a Freeview box on RF channel 60). Since doing this I've found a few Season Passes which haven't recorded due to "no longer in program guide".Hi Ian,

From your logfile, it looks like the negative padding was added correctly at 19:55, but by 20:12 the TiVo was idle (presumably the Dragon's Den recording didn't start at 20:02). It is interesting that the Recording History says that the 20:02 program is "No longer in program guide" - that's the artificial recording that EndPad mocked up to record with the negative padding.

I wonder whether TiVo's scheduler noticed some discrepancy with EndPad's scheduled recording, so removed it from the To Do list. Perhaps it then tried to reschedule a Season Pass recording for 20:00, but couldn't because the longer Coronation Street now conflicts with it. Is Coronation Street really higher priority (I don't watch either of those programmes, so can't judge :) )? I wonder what would happen if the priority were the other way round?

Why doesn't this always happen? Perhaps you only get this problem if the scheduler happens to wake up in the short period before the programme starts (ie. between 19:55 and 20:02, in this case). Does anyone know how often that is?

I don't know whether this is related to your change to dual-source setup, though I seem to remember someone else posting a similar problem earlier in this long thread, so perhaps it is more general.

It might be interesting to investigate this by adding a negative padding to a Season Pass programme some time in advance, and then seeing what happens (this can be done with the ToDo.tcl (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/maxwells.daemon/tivo/downloads/todo-1.1.zip) and endpad -negfsid option). Does the negatively padded programme get replaced after a bit? Always? How quickly? Anyone want to give it a go? (I'm not sure I'll have the time for a bit.) Maybe this will give us a clue for how to fix or alleviate the problem, if it is a general problem.

Tim.

[itm]

Is Coronation Street really higher priority (I don't watch either of those programmes, so can't judge :) )? I wonder what would happen if the priority were the other way round?

I'm afraid my life wouldn't be worth living....

I'd never seen the "no longer in programme guide" message before I switched to Freeview, so the more I think about it the more I think that was a major factor. I might have a play with -negfsid.

Thanks for your help.

[PhilG]

I agree the name is confusing. We can change the documentation. Should we also change the option/config names (negpad, forceneg, and maxneg, as well as short forms, -f and -n)? Any suggestions?


I think we should ADD better descriptive names/options but DON'T take the current ones awat - that'll just make enemies!

To me "negpad" = "forcepad", "forceneg" would then have to be "forcepadalways" (or something similar), but I never worked out what "negpad" did so I don't have a suggestion - sorry

ALSO, do people use any of these as start command options? If not, there is no need to have short abbreviations - typing into the config file ought always to have the full options (for clarity)

[tym]

I think we should ADD better descriptive names/options but DON'T take the current ones awat - that'll just make enemies!

To me "negpad" = "forcepad", "forceneg" would then have to be "forcepadalways" (or something similar), but I never worked out what "negpad" did so I don't have a suggestion - sorry

ALSO, do people use any of these as start command options? If not, there is no need to have short abbreviations - typing into the config file ought always to have the full options (for clarity)Perhaps to be absolutely clear it could be called "forceendpad" (which allows the forcestartpad feature to be added by someone who cares). "-fe" for short ("-n" and "negpad" for backwards compatibility). Change the semantics slightly to ensure that the applied "endpad" is >= the "forceendpad" (the opposite is currently true - the negpad is forced to be <= the endpad).

"forceneg" can be "alwaysforce" or some such.

"maxneg" is really "maxcutstart". It's there so that you can have a global forceendpad setting and then prevent particular programs from having their start removed.

I think that all options need abbreviations, and perhaps mappings for common misspellings (eg forcendpad). Keeping the command line options is sensible - not everyone uses a config file.

Tim

[gwgw45]

As part of my rescue of my Tivo to return it to its condition prior to it deleting my hack folder, I am trying to get endpad working. I ftp'd it across to the /var/hack folder. via telnet ran chmod 755 endpad.tcl all was well. I then tried to start endpad using the ./endpad.tcl -e 10 whilst I was in the /var/hack directory and got the "/var/hack/endpad.tcl: no such file exists" message.

If I do ls it lists the file as being there, so I am at a complete loss? Any clues appreciated.

Thanks
G.

[ColinYounger]

G -

chmod 775 /var/hack/endpad.tcl

[TCM2007]

More likely transferred it in text mode instead of binary.

The error message is saying that it can't find the command in the first line of endpad.tcl, not that it can't find endpad.tcl. And it's trying to "run" the first line in the shell because the FTP program on the PC adds an extra character to the end of each line if it transfers it in text mode, which breaks the syntax telling TiVo its a TCL program not a shell script.

[gwgw45]

More likely transferred it in text mode instead of binary.

The error message is saying that it can't find the command in the first line of endpad.tcl, not that it can't find endpad.tcl. And it's trying to "run" the first line in the shell because the FTP program on the PC adds an extra character to the end of each line if it transfers it in text mode, which breaks the syntax telling TiVo its a TCL program not a shell script.

Good catch, thanks. Although I had set my FTP client to transfer in binary mode, I had another instance of it running doing something else and this must have prevented the binary transfer working. Shutdown and restarted the ftp client, transferred the file again and bingo!

Thanks
G.

[Prospectre]

Could someone help me restart endpad?

Rebooting doesn't seem to do the trick.

The file permissions are

-rwxrwxr-x 1 0 0 56638 Mar 24 10:54 endpad.tcl

It's in rc.sysinit.author as
/var/hack/endpad.tcl -auto >> /dev/null &

but it won't start. The command
/var/hack/endpad.tcl
gives this
bash: /var/hack/endpad.tcl: No such file or directory.

Any ideas?

[Edit] As you were. I think my FTP probs had corrupted the file.
A re-transfer of endpad.tcl using SmartFTP, a quick chmod and it started fine.

[ericd121]

Can someone confirm or clarify a usage of validity in endpad.config?

I'm going to give negpad another go.

I've put
c BBC2 -v Sun 21-2 -n 2
into endpad.config.

Suppose I wanted to negpad Friday as well as Sunday but not any other day, or on the other hand negpad Mon-Fri, what would be the syntax?

[ColinYounger]

Eric:

The commends in endpad.config show:validity Sat/19:30-05:00 endpad 20 # Saturday 7:30pm to Sunday 5am

Which by my reckoning would make your line:c BBC2 v Sun/21:00-02:00 n 2Note the expansion of the time and the slash after the day.

[ericd121]

Well spotted! :)

Thanks for that. :up:

Any ideas on the multiple days, single command question?

[ColinYounger]

I deliberately avoided that question. :)

I suspect that you can't do 'ranges' of days - the comments specifically mention "may be limited to one day of the week", and being of the development nature I would guess that this is a statement of fact, rather than an omission of detail. ;)

So you'd need separate lines for each day. Mind you - that's not a massive problem, is it?

[ericd121]

So you'd need separate lines for each day. Mind you - that's not a massive problem, is it?No, just curious about the syntax. :rolleyes:

I'm trying negpad in the coming days...
where's that fingers crossed smiley? ;)

[ericd121]

I can report that I have been using the new improved Endpad 1.5.4 and I've been using negpad.

Everything works fine, and I've had no lost recordings, so a big Thank You to all concerned. :up:

Of course, I have a question... :)
What would/should be the effect of the following parameters?

c BBC2 -v Sun/21-2 -n 2
c BBC2 -n 1

And before you say "Try it!", these lines are already in endpad.config, but my recording schedule is such that only Sunday evening has consecutive recordings on BBC2.

Obviously, the effect I'm hoping for is 1 minute's negpadding on BBC2 all the time except on Sundays after 9pm when I'd like 2 minute's negpadding.

[ColinYounger]

Eric - again, no expert, but my guts tell me that the LAST entry will override any previous entries.

So - switch the entries around.

[ColinYounger]

Just to clarify - if you say 'Sunday on BBC2 2min neg' then 'BBC2 neg all the time' will override the 2 min neg.

Make sense?

[maxwells_daemon]

c BBC2 -v Sun/21-2 -n 2
c BBC2 -n 1

Obviously, the effect I'm hoping for is 1 minute's negpadding on BBC2 all the time except on Sundays after 9pm when I'd like 2 minute's negpadding.I think that will do what you want - assuming you also have the right -endpad settings to require negative padding, and remembering that the validity times are GMT, unless you specify a different timezone with the -tz option.

The specific settings (with validity period) override the general settings during the specified time.

Tim.

[verses]

Hi,

Before I begin, I'd just like to say I've been using EndPad for ages and it's by far and away the most essential 'hack', I couldn't live without it now :)

Up until now I've only used the 'standard' start and end padding, but I'm now wanting to try the negative padding function. I want to implement it for a specific scenario, one that I'm sure has been tackled before :) My wife watches Coronation Street and Eastenders (Thanks to Tivo, I no longer have to), however the Monday and Friday episodes tend to overlap one another. I'm wanting to set up negative padding specifically for these shows to get the "essential cliff-hanger" ending of one rather than the start of the other.

I currently launch Endpad in /etc/rc.d/rc.sysinit.author with the following;
/var/hack/endpad/endpad.tcl -s 2 -e 5 -sugeq -auto >/dev/null 2>&1 &

The listings are as follows;
Monday
Coronation Street, 19:30, ITV1
Eastenders, 20:00, BBC1
Coronation Street, 20:30, ITV1
Friday
Coronation Street, 19:30, ITV1
Eastenders, 20:00, BBC1

I want each programme to steal 2mins from the programme that follows it, as such, I'm now planning to launch it with;
/var/hack/endpad/endpad.tcl -auto >/dev/null 2>&1 &

and put the following in endpad.config;
s 2 e 5 sugeq
c ITV1ANG v Monday/19:20-19:40 p {^Coronation Street$} n 2 f 1
c BBC1EAST v Monday/19:50-20:10 p {^Eastenders$} n 2 f 1
c ITV1ANG v Monday/20:20-20:40 p {^Coronation Street$} n 2 f 1
c ITV1ANG v Friday/19:20-19:40 p {^Coronation Street$} n 2 f 1
c BBC1EAST v Friday/19:50-20:10 p {^Eastenders$} n 2 f 1


Does this look correct?

Regards,

Ian

PS: Apologies if this has been detailed before, but as I'm sure you can appreciate the Endpad threads are fairly lengthy now :)

PPS: I would've dabbled with this rather than asking, but it'd be more than my life's worth to mess up Corrie/Enders ;)

[ericd121]

/var/hack/endpad/endpad.tcl -auto >/dev/null 2>&1 &Does this look correct?Not to me.

I have /var/hack/endpad.tcl -auto >> /dev/null & with s 1 e 6 f 1 -sugeq in endpad.config

As to thisthe following in endpad.config;
s 2 e 5 sugeq
c ITV1ANG v Monday/19:20-19:40 p {^Coronation Street$} n 2 f 1
c BBC1EAST v Monday/19:50-20:10 p {^Eastenders$} n 2 f 1
c ITV1ANG v Monday/20:20-20:40 p {^Coronation Street$} n 2 f 1
c ITV1ANG v Friday/19:20-19:40 p {^Coronation Street$} n 2 f 1
c BBC1EAST v Friday/19:50-20:10 p {^Eastenders$} n 2 f 1
I think you're doubling up on parameters.

Is Eastenders on at 19:50? If so, why do you need to tell endpad the time and channel when it's already looking for that programme name?
I'd keep everything after p on each line and junk the rest.

Now on to my problem!

[ericd121]

Sorry for the double post.

After stating above
"I've had no lost recordings",
last night I lost Graham Norton Uncut;
here is the relevent log entry.
Sunday 22:00:00 : Woken up
Sunday 22:00:00 : Recording {Match of the Day 2} on BBC2 now
Sunday 22:00:00 : Recording Scheduled End Time: 22:30
Sunday 22:00:00 : Next recording is {Graham Norton Uncut} on BBC2 at 22:30
Sunday 22:00:00 : Current recording ({Match of the Day 2} at 21:32 on Sun) is on BBC2 so use negpad 1
Sunday 22:00:00 : Current recording ({Match of the Day 2} at 21:32 on Sun) is on BBC2 and starts in Sun/21:00-02:00 so use negpad 2
Sunday 22:00:00 : Not time to add end padding yet
Sunday 22:00:00 : Next end padding setting due 22:25
Sunday 22:00:00 : Not time to add start padding yet
Sunday 22:00:00 : Next start padding setting due 22:28
Sunday 22:00:00 : Next wake up will be 22:25
Sleeping, checking every minute for kill signal..........................
Sunday 22:25:00 : Woken up
Sunday 22:25:00 : Recording {Match of the Day 2} on BBC2 now
Sunday 22:25:00 : Recording Scheduled End Time: 22:30
Sunday 22:25:00 : Next recording is {Graham Norton Uncut} on BBC2 at 22:30
Sunday 22:25:00 : Current recording ({Match of the Day 2} at 21:32 on Sun) is on BBC2 so use negpad 1
Sunday 22:25:00 : Current recording ({Match of the Day 2} at 21:32 on Sun) is on BBC2 and starts in Sun/21:00-02:00 so use negpad 2
Sunday 22:25:00 : Gap to next programme is 0 seconds
Sunday 22:25:00 : Need to add 120 seconds of negative padding to {Graham Norton Uncut}
Sunday 22:25:00 : Original start time for {Graham Norton Uncut} is 81000
Sunday 22:25:00 : New start time is 81120
Sunday 22:25:00 : Cancelled old recording
Sunday 22:25:00 : Creating Recording...
Sunday 22:25:00 : Creating Showing...
Sunday 22:25:00 : Done.
Sunday 22:25:00 : Gap to next programme is now 120 seconds
Sunday 22:25:00 : Added 120 seconds end padding to {Match of the Day 2} on BBC2
Sunday 22:25:00 : Next end padding setting due 23:10
Sunday 22:25:00 : Not time to add start padding yet
Sunday 22:25:00 : Next start padding setting due 22:30
Sunday 22:25:00 : Next wake up will be 22:30
Sleeping, checking every minute for kill signal......
Sunday 22:30:00 : Woken up
Sunday 22:30:00 : Recording {Match of the Day 2} on BBC2 now
Sunday 22:30:00 : Recording Scheduled End Time: 22:32
Sunday 22:30:00 : Next recording is Click on BBC24 at 23:30
Sunday 22:30:00 : Current recording ({Match of the Day 2} at 21:32 on Sun) is on BBC2 so use negpad 1
Sunday 22:30:00 : Current recording ({Match of the Day 2} at 21:32 on Sun) is on BBC2 and starts in Sun/21:00-02:00 so use negpad 2
Sunday 22:30:00 : Next recording (Click at 23:30 on Sun) matches 'Click' so use startpad 0
Sunday 22:30:00 : Gap to next programme is 3600 seconds
Sunday 22:30:00 : Added 360 seconds end padding to {Match of the Day 2} on BBC2
Sunday 22:30:00 : Next end padding setting due 23:55
Sunday 22:30:00 : Can't add start padding to Click
Sunday 22:30:00 : No start padding requested
Sunday 22:30:00 : Start padding of 0 seconds already set
Sunday 22:30:00 : Next start padding setting due 23:40
Sunday 22:30:00 : Next wake up will be 23:00
Sleeping, checking every minute for kill signal...............................
Sunday 23:00:00 : Woken up
Sunday 23:00:00 : No recording in progress
As you can see, of Graham Norton Uncut it says

Sunday 22:25:00 : Cancelled old recording
Sunday 22:25:00 : Creating Recording...
Sunday 22:25:00 : Creating Showing...
Sunday 22:25:00 : Done.
except it wasn't done. :(

[verses]

I think you're doubling up on parameters.

Is Eastenders on at 19:50? If so, why do you need to tell endpad the time and channel when it's already looking for that programme name?
I'd keep everything after p on each line and junk the rest.

Hi Eric, thanks for the response;

The only differences between our launch commands;
Ian = /var/hack/endpad/endpad.tcl -auto >/dev/null 2>&1 &
Eric = /var/hack/endpad.tcl -auto >> /dev/null &
is the fact that;

my endpad is in a sub-directory
I redirect to Null using overwrite (>) whereas you use append (>>)
I redirect error messages to null (2>&1) but you don't

So that should all be ok.

In the endpad.config I see I need to use "-sugeq" rather than "sugeq".

As for the doubling up on parameters, you're probably right. I'd been trying to lock it down to specific instances of Eastenders and Corrie (rather than every episode), so had needlessly over-specified the commands (the 19:20-19:40 was to allow for it starting earlier/later than normal, which is completely redundant as TiVo can easily take care of that itself).
Instead I think I'll do as you suggest and just make every Eastenders and every Corrie steal 2mins from the following programme, using;

s 2 e 5 f 1 -sugeq
p {^Coronation Street$} n 2
p {^Eastenders$} n 2


Am I right in thinking that both Coronation Street and Eastenders will start-pad (where they don't follow another programme) with the 2 default minutes specified on the first line? Or do I need to explicitly specify them per programme?

Cheers,

Ian

[verses]

Am I right in thinking that both Coronation Street and Eastenders will start-pad (where they don't follow another programme) with the 2 default minutes specified on the first line? Or do I need to explicitly specify them per programme?

Forgot to ask one thing; will episodes of Eastenders and Corrie that don't have a programme following them endpad with the 5 default minutes, or the 2 negpad minutes?

Cheers again,

Ian

[ericd121]

s 2 e 5 f 1 -sugeq
p {^Coronation Street$} n 2
p {^Eastenders$} n 2

> Am I right in thinking that both Coronation Street and Eastenders will start-pad (where they don't follow another programme) with the 2 default minutes specified on the first line?

You are.

> Or do I need to explicitly specify them per programme?

You don't.
The first line sets the global parameters.

> will episodes of Eastenders and Corrie that don't have a programme following them endpad with the 5 default minutes, or the 2 negpad minutes?

5 minutes it is.
Negpad doesn't pad, it steals.

[verses]

Thanks again for your help Eric. I'll now step aside so others can help with your question :)

Cheers,

Ian

[verses]

I lied, I'm not stepping aside after all :D

It appears that the negative padding only partially worked. My endpad.config was set up as follows;

s 2 e 5 f 1 -sugeq
p {^Eastenders$} n 2
p {^Coronation Street$} n 2

The listings were for;
19:30 Coronation Street
20:00 Eastenders
20:30 Coronation Street

From following the logs;

The 19:30 Coronation Street didn't add any negative padding.
Towards the end of the 20:00 Eastenders I saw it saying about it pattern-matching and so it added 120secs negpadding. The 19:30 Coronation Street hadn't shown any messages about pattern matching.


I added "p {Coronation Street} n 2" to endpad.config, so it looked like;

s 2 e 5 f 1 -sugeq
p {^Eastenders$} n 2
p {^Coronation Street$} n 2
p {Coronation Street} n 2
i.e. I removed the ^ and $ from the program name to be matched. This time, at the end of the 20:30 Coronation Street the log showed the pattern-matching message. It was matching the new line and again ignoring the old one.

Hopefully using the new line won't make any difference as we don't record any other programs with "Coronation Street" in the title, but I'm just curious as to why the original line doesn't work?

Cheers,

Ian

[ericd121]

s 2 e 5 f 1 -sugeq
p {^Eastenders$} n 2
p {^Coronation Street$} n 2
p {Coronation Street} n 2 i.e. I removed the ^ and $ from the program name to be matched. This time, at the end of the 20:30 Coronation Street the log showed the pattern-matching message. It was matching the new line and again ignoring the old one.

Hopefully using the new line won't make any difference as we don't record any other programs with "Coronation Street" in the title, but I'm just curious as to why the original line doesn't work?Somewhere in this thread, there is a post about my previous recordings failing because of an earlier version of endpad, which was attributed to Tivo housekeeping cancelling the new recording.
Maybe Tivo housekeeping cancelled your negpadding? :confused:

Which is to say that your code change made no difference.

[ericd121]

It saddens me to say this but...

negpad can not be safely used.

My Wednesday evening C4-fest of
8:00pm Property Ladder
9:00pm Grand Designs
10:00pm Desperate Housewives
with 2 minutes negpadding on Grand Designs resulted in Desperate Housewives not being recorded.

Here is the log.Wednesday 20:55:00 : Woken up
Wednesday 20:55:01 : Recording {Grand Designs} on C4 now
Wednesday 20:55:01 : Recording Scheduled End Time: 21:00
Wednesday 20:55:01 : Next recording is {Desperate Housewives} on C4 at 21:00
Wednesday 20:55:01 : Current recording ({Grand Designs} at 20:00 on Wed) matches 'Grand' so use negpad 2
Wednesday 20:55:01 : Gap to next programme is 0 seconds
Wednesday 20:55:01 : Need to add 120 seconds of negative padding to {Desperate Housewives}
Wednesday 20:55:01 : Original start time for {Desperate Housewives} is 75600
Wednesday 20:55:01 : New start time is 75720
Wednesday 20:55:01 : Cancelled old recording
Wednesday 20:55:01 : Creating Recording...
Wednesday 20:55:01 : Creating Showing...
Wednesday 20:55:01 : Done.
Wednesday 20:55:01 : Gap to next programme is now 120 seconds
Wednesday 20:55:01 : Added 120 seconds end padding to {Grand Designs} on C4
Wednesday 20:55:01 : Next end padding setting due 22:00
Wednesday 20:55:01 : Not time to add start padding yet
Wednesday 20:55:01 : Next start padding setting due 21:00
Wednesday 20:55:01 : Next wake up will be 21:00
Sleeping, checking every minute for kill signal......
Wednesday 21:00:00 : Woken up
Wednesday 21:00:00 : Recording {Grand Designs} on C4 now
Wednesday 21:00:00 : Recording Scheduled End Time: 21:02
Wednesday 21:00:00 : Next recording is {The Real Casino Royale} on BBC2 (Suggestion) at 22:20As you can see, this has the same lines as the previous lost recording.
Wednesday 20:55:01 : Original start time for {Desperate Housewives} is 75600
Wednesday 20:55:01 : New start time is 75720
Wednesday 20:55:01 : Cancelled old recording
Wednesday 20:55:01 : Creating Recording...
Wednesday 20:55:01 : Creating Showing...
Wednesday 20:55:01 : Done.

Note; I have two TiVos, and this is on the other Tivo. :(

[itm]

Had another strange event with Endpad (latest version) on Wednesday night. My SP for Desperate Housewives at 22:00 on C4 didn't record. It was in the ToDo list earlier in the evening.
When I checked the Recording History tonight I found 2 entries for it:
22:00 "not recorded because someone in your household chose to record another programme instead".
22:02 "not recorded because it was no longer in the programme guide"

I don't have the Endpad log from Wednesday, but the message log showed that The Apprentice SP was recorded successfully just prior to the Desperate Housewives slot:
"Wednesday 20:55:00 : Added 120 seconds end padding to {The Apprentice} on BBC1LDN"

Anyone know why this might have happened?

[ericd121]

Anyone know why this might have happened?Can you post the relevant lines of endpad.config?

[itm]

Config is:

endpad.tcl -f 0 -e 5 -n 2

[ericd121]

So you have 2 minutes negpadding on everything.

As you can see by my previous posts, my belief is that
negpad can not be safely used.

[itm]

Interesting that your problem was also with the same programme (Desp Housewives @ 10pm on Wednesday), and also preceded by an hour-long recording at 9pm. I'm wondering whether there is something about the scheduling of Desp Housewives which makes it prone to this problem?
What does your Recording History say about the failure to record it? (mine said "no longer in programme guide", which is curious...)

[ericd121]

Mine, too, said "no longer in programme guide".

I think it's a coincidence that it happened to the same programme.

If you read from Post 108 (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4286913&&#post4286913) onwards, you'll see a theory by sanderton that seems to explain what is happening.

[itm]

Thanks for the pointer.

Probably a silly question, but is there any way to control the scheduling of Tivo's housekeeping? If it took place in the early hours there would be less chance of this sort of thing happening.

[Pete77]

I think I feel vindicated in sticking to a simple 2 minutes start padding and 4 minutes end padding of all my programs with there being no padding in force when programs run back to back.

At least I don't lose whole programs that way and it is quite rare for me to miss the last minute or two of a back to back recording.

[verses]

It saddens me to say this but...

negpad can not be safely used.


Well, after a few weeks of using it I've decided I have to agree with Eric. Twice it's decided that it can't record the 2nd Corrie (1st time I noticed and caught a repeat) but this time it appears lost and gone forever. As a reminder the schedule is;
7:30 Coronation Street
8:00 Eastenders
8:30 Coronation Street

The missus's decided that she'd rather miss the ending (which often happens with these progs) than risk losing a whole episode.

If it's any use the log from yesterday is;


Monday 18:27:00 : Woken up
Monday 18:27:00 : Recording Scrubs on E4P1 (Suggestion) now
Monday 18:27:00 : Recording Scheduled End Time: 18:30
Monday 18:27:00 : Next recording is {Coronation Street} on ITV1ANG at 18:30
Monday 18:27:00 : Gap to next programme is 0 seconds
Monday 18:27:00 : Can't add end padding to Scrubs
Monday 18:27:00 : Next end padding setting due 18:55
Monday 18:27:00 : Gap to previous recording is 0 seconds
Monday 18:27:00 : Can't add start padding to {Coronation Street}
Monday 18:27:00 : Next start padding setting due 18:55
Monday 18:27:00 : Next wake up will be 18:55
Sleeping, checking every minute for kill signal.............................
Monday 18:55:00 : Woken up
Monday 18:55:00 : Recording {Coronation Street} on ITV1ANG now
Monday 18:55:00 : Recording Scheduled End Time: 19:00
Monday 18:55:00 : Next recording is EastEnders on BBC1EAST at 19:00
Monday 18:55:00 : Current recording ({Coronation Street} at 18:30 on Mon) matches 'Coronation Street' so use negpad 1
Monday 18:55:00 : Gap to next programme is 0 seconds
Monday 18:55:00 : Need to add 60 seconds of negative padding to EastEnders
Monday 18:55:00 : Original start time for EastEnders is 68400
Monday 18:55:00 : New start time is 68460
Monday 18:55:01 : Cancelled old recording
Monday 18:55:01 : Creating Recording...
Monday 18:55:01 : Creating Showing...
Monday 18:55:01 : Done.
Monday 18:55:01 : Gap to next programme is now 60 seconds
Monday 18:55:01 : Added 60 seconds end padding to {Coronation Street} on ITV1ANG
Monday 18:55:01 : Next end padding setting due 19:25
Monday 18:55:01 : Not time to add start padding yet
Monday 18:55:01 : Next start padding setting due 18:58
Monday 18:55:01 : Next wake up will be 18:58
Sleeping, checking every minute for kill signal....
Monday 18:58:00 : Woken up
Monday 18:58:00 : No recording in progress
Monday 18:58:00 : Next recording is EastEnders on BBC1EAST at 19:00
Monday 18:58:00 : No end padding required:
Monday 18:58:00 : No recording in progress
Monday 18:58:00 : Next end padding setting due 19:25
Monday 18:58:00 : Added 120 seconds start padding to EastEnders on BBC1EAST
Monday 18:58:00 : Next start padding setting due 19:25
Monday 18:58:00 : Next wake up will be 19:25
Sleeping, checking every minute for kill signal............................
Monday 19:25:00 : Woken up
Monday 19:25:00 : Recording EastEnders on BBC1EAST now
Monday 19:25:00 : Recording Scheduled End Time: 19:30
Monday 19:25:00 : Next recording is {Coronation Street} on ITV1ANG at 19:30
Monday 19:25:00 : Current recording (EastEnders at 19:00 on Mon) matches '^Eastenders$' so use negpad 1
Monday 19:25:00 : Gap to next programme is 0 seconds
Monday 19:25:00 : Need to add 60 seconds of negative padding to {Coronation Street}
Monday 19:25:01 : Original start time for {Coronation Street} is 70200
Monday 19:25:01 : New start time is 70260
Monday 19:25:01 : Cancelled old recording
Monday 19:25:01 : Creating Recording...
Monday 19:25:01 : Creating Showing...
Monday 19:25:01 : Done.
Monday 19:25:01 : Gap to next programme is now 60 seconds
Monday 19:25:01 : Added 60 seconds end padding to EastEnders on BBC1EAST
Monday 19:25:01 : Next end padding setting due 19:55
Monday 19:25:01 : Not time to add start padding yet
Monday 19:25:01 : Next start padding setting due 19:28
Monday 19:25:01 : Next wake up will be 19:28
Sleeping, checking every minute for kill signal....
Monday 19:28:00 : Woken up
Monday 19:28:00 : Recording EastEnders on BBC1EAST now
Monday 19:28:00 : Recording Scheduled End Time: 19:31
Monday 19:28:00 : Next recording is {Coronation Street} on ITV1ANG at 19:31
Monday 19:28:00 : Current recording (EastEnders at 19:00 on Mon) matches '^Eastenders$' so use negpad 1
Monday 19:28:00 : Gap to next programme is 60 seconds
Monday 19:28:00 : Added 60 seconds end padding to EastEnders on BBC1EAST
Monday 19:28:00 : Next end padding setting due 19:55
Monday 19:28:00 : Gap to previous recording is 0 seconds
Monday 19:28:00 : Can't add start padding to {Coronation Street}
Monday 19:28:00 : Next start padding setting due 19:55
Monday 19:28:00 : Next wake up will be 19:55
Sleeping, checking every minute for kill signal............................
Monday 19:55:00 : Woken up
Monday 19:55:01 : No recording in progress
Monday 19:55:01 : Next recording is Ideal on BBC3 (Suggestion) at 20:30
Monday 19:55:01 : No end padding required:
Monday 19:55:01 : No recording in progress
Monday 19:55:01 : Next end padding setting due 20:55
Monday 19:55:01 : Not time to add start padding yet
Monday 19:55:01 : Next start padding setting due 20:27
Monday 19:55:01 : Next wake up will be 20:25
Sleeping, checking every minute for kill signal...............................
Monday 20:25:01 : Woken up


and this was the content of my endpad.config;


s 2 e 5 f 1 -sugeq
p {^Eastenders$} n 1
p {Coronation Street} n 1


Cheers,

Ian

[Pete77]

I don't use Negpad but merely a global s2 and e4 Endpad setting. I never have these problems with unexplained missed recordings being caused by Endpad. Where recordings run back to back I put up with Tivo changing channels at the exact time and don't normally miss anything due to commercial channel ad breaks and BBC trailer breaks at the end of most programs.

Also since I started using DailyMail I also now hardly ever miss a recording due to a hidden SP clash I was unaware of recording the program that was actually less important to me.

[verses]

Aye, I'd been using endpad with just s2 e5 for a long time, and it had worked flawlessly (i.e. no programs accidentally cancelled). However my wife often found that the end of the 7:30pm Corrie and the 8pm Eastenders were missing as the programs had overrun their timeslot, so I decided to implement negpad specifically for these conflicts.

I've now reverted to the s2 e5 settings and my wife'll just have to live without the "Duh duh dudu duh" cliffhanger endings of some episodes of Eastenders ;-)

[Pete77]

I think for me that routinely missing the first 2 minutes of programs would be equally annoying. So that was why I never considered it.

I don't watch many SOAPs though.

[zippy7272]

We have it set to extend Corrie on Mondays and Fridays by 1 minute.
This gets the end of the street. And we generally only miss a few seconds of east enders. Generally @ the start of east enders they do a arty / farty shot for a few seconds seeing the market start up or an empty room, before anyone even talks.

I don't think we've ever missed anything.


YOu could try it and see how you get on.

TBH we prefer Corrie to EE.

[Pete77]

I don't think we've ever missed anything.

I never watch watch either Eastenders or Coronation Street and never feel that I have missed anything. ;) :p

[verses]

Of all it's fancy bits of functionality, Wishlists, Season Passes, TV listing searches, Ease of hacking, I still maintain that TiVo's best feature is the fact that I've not had to see an episode of any soap opera since (checks account details) November 2002.

Ian

[Pete77]

Of all it's fancy bits of functionality, Wishlists, Season Passes, TV listing searches, Ease of hacking, I still maintain that TiVo's best feature is the fact that I've not had to see an episode of any soap opera since (checks account details) November 2002.

The only Soap my Tivo would have ever had an SP for had Tivos existed in those days would have been "Prisoner.....Cell Block H".

And we never did get to see the final conclusion of that program as Thames or Carlton (forget which it was by then) suddenly decided not to buy the next series. :eek: :( :mad: :down:

Now I suppose if I hunt around hard enough with BitTorrent no I can no doubt find those missing episodes to download somewhere or other. But then when will I find time to catch up on all the other worthwhile programs (like quite a few episodes of the new Doctor Who series and Life on Mars) on my Tivo I still haven't got round to watching due to all the time I spend on the computer and the internet these days...........

The radio is so much better for multitasking. I'm writing this while listening to Joanna Lumley on Desert Island Disks.

[Raisltin Majere]

The only Soap my Tivo would have ever had an SP for had Tivos existed in those days would have been "Prisoner.....Cell Block H".
.

I have a wishlist for this, hopefully somebody will show it again.


And we never did get to see the final conclusion of that program as Thames or Carlton (forget which it was by then) suddenly decided not to buy the next series. :eek: :( :mad: :down:


Fortunately Westcountry or whatever they were called back then showed it. I also have it on DVD.


Now I suppose if I hunt around hard enough with BitTorrent no I can no doubt find those missing episodes to download somewhere or other.

You wouldn't really need to hunt all that hard to be honest.

[TCM2007]

The only Soap my Tivo would have ever had an SP for had Tivos existed in those days would have been "Prisoner.....Cell Block H".

And we never did get to see the final conclusion of that program as Thames or Carlton (forget which it was by then) suddenly decided not to buy the next series. :eek: :( :mad: :down:

Now I suppose if I hunt around hard enough with BitTorrent no I can no doubt find those missing episodes to download somewhere or other. But then when will I find time to catch up on all the other worthwhile programs (like quite a few episodes of the new Doctor Who series and Life on Mars) on my Tivo I still haven't got round to watching due to all the time I spend on the computer and the internet these days...........

The radio is so much better for multitasking. I'm writing this while listening to Joanna Lumley on Desert Island Disks.

Moved to Channel Five IIRC .

There's a 172-disk boxed set coming out on DVD later this year should you run out of things to watch!

[RichardJH]

692 episodes to watch. Liable to keep anyone quiet for a while :eek: :D :D

http://www.43things.com/things/view/230011