New Tivo, no Ethernet port? [Text View]

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gmcc

02-11-2006, 09:43 AM

I just bought my Tivo a few weeks ago and I initially hung it on my phone line so it could get program data etc.

I decided it to be worthwhile to hang it on my broadband service for several reasons. I then discovered much to my surprise that the box has only USB ports available for a network interface! I can't imagine why in these days of networked everything.

But so be it...I'll just grab (buy) an adapter from my local electronics store and do the project as planned. Then I discovered from online docs that it can't be just _any_ adapter but rather has to be one from a short list with only two said to be "Tivo tested and certified" to work with Tivo. My local parts place had none of those in stock.

And I can't yet find either of those two locally. I did find a Linksys USB200M at a Radio Shack but of course it's the wrong _version_ of that model...and I had to go in the store and look for "an image of an orange and whilte CD-ROM" to determine this. That makes it a little difficult to even mail-order the device (I don't think I can get a place to check the package for that little picture for me before shipping).

This all just strikes me as a bit looney. If I assume that Tivo _wants_ people to network these boxes, why make it so difficult? And how much could it cost them to just include an ethernet port on the box? Pennies?

Or is it just a little extra money making scheme, since I gather they buy up and stock these near obsolete products in the online 'store'?

cdeckert219

02-11-2006, 11:04 PM

I COMPLETELY agree! I looked at 4 or 5 different stores (including Fry's, which has hundreds of USB adapters). Couldn't find a single wired or wireless adapter on the "approved" list. I finally gave up and ordered one from TiVo. Now I see that both the wired and wireless are out of stock. I would NOT be a happy camper if I just bought a TiVo today... This is a really lame situation.

Spiff

02-11-2006, 11:10 PM

The next version of TiVo, the Series3 CableCard HD TiVo, will have Ethernet built in.

I agree it would be nicer to have built-in Ethernet. But it pays to do this research before you purchase one. A quick look around the TiVo site or this board would have revealed this fact.

Good luck, hope you can find the right adapter.

cheerdude

02-12-2006, 05:58 AM

Buy the TiVo Wireless Adapter ... no need to worry about whether you got the right chipset or not and there are reports (like mine) that say that it has been faster than other adapters.

gmcc

02-12-2006, 07:12 AM

Quite right...(the 'NOT a happy camper part') I had intended to go back and add to my original post once I discovered that going to the 'Tivo store' to buy one was also a wasted effort. In fact the only wired adapter I found there is one that is NOT on the list and requires a special Beta software upgrade before it will work (oh, and it too is "out of stock"!

I COMPLETELY agree! I looked at 4 or 5 different stores (including Fry's, which has hundreds of USB adapters).

I would NOT be a happy camper if I just bought a TiVo today... This is a really lame situation.

gmcc

02-12-2006, 07:21 AM

(aside from the fact that that one TOO is "out of stock")

That might be a viable alternative except for one big problem. I've only been in IT and broadcast television for a couple of dozen years and so I could be wrong here, but I am pretty sure that any sort of wireless business requires at least two devices to make the trick work.

Since I currently have no wireless network I can't see how that would be of much help to me. :-)

Buy the TiVo Wireless Adapter ... no need to worry about whether you got the right chipset or not and there are reports (like mine) that say that it has been faster than other adapters.

gmcc

02-12-2006, 07:27 AM

gmcc

02-12-2006, 07:44 AM

And I suppose just to add insult to injury, their "support" area under "contact us" says "We no longer offer support by e-mail". What?!

This online high tech networked outfit doesn't allow email? This all just gets better by the minute.

Does anyone that works for Tivo actually ever read or post anwhere here, or is this just more a way to dump support for thier products on other users?

I think the fact is that this problem exists falls on _their_ shoulders to warn people PRIOR to the purchase.

SeanC

02-12-2006, 07:51 AM

Well I'll give you this, for a frustrated user at the very least you're only spamming your own thread and not the entire forum.

gmcc

02-12-2006, 08:38 AM

Spamming?

I did look around the forum for what I thought was the best place to post this business, and since the posts include some implied suggestions, this looked like the best spot.

If I have this problem, my hope would be that others do as well, and possibly have found a solution to share... or that some Tivo representative might address the problem (although I noted not knowing if this is ever the case in these forums).

If you have a solution I would be most happy to hear it.

Well I'll give you this, for a frustrated user at the very least you're only spamming your own thread and not the entire forum.

Spiff

02-12-2006, 09:03 AM

That will be nice, but I bought mine from Tivo online very recently, and that was not an option.

They sold me this one without even slightly mentioning that there was currently virtually no way to get it on a wired network. In fact all the sales pitch stuff pushed this as a 'feature' (the being on a network part).

I think the fact is that this problem exists falls on _their_ shoulders to warn people PRIOR to the purchase.

If you bought it online, there are several places you should have seen it first:

TiVo Home Page->What do I need->Home network and broadband. Right at the top of the page, #1 mentions you need a wireless adapter.

TiVo Home Page->Buy TiVo->Technical Specs shows no Ethernet connection.

TiVo Home Page->What is TiVo->TV Shows to Go->TiVo To Go->System Requirements (the same as TiVo Home Page->I have TiVo->TiVo to Go->System Requirements) lists that you need a USB adapter.

TiVo Home Page->Support->Network has a lot of information about what's needed.

While it may have been more useful if any time networking was mentioned to have an asterisk with a note about the requirements, it really is your responsibility to know what your product is capable of before you buy it.

As for not currently being able to purchase an adapter, that's extremely unfortunate. The adapter manufacturers change their chipsets/inner workings without notice, and TiVo has to scramble to test and implement new drivers.

If you can buy on eBay you can find a compatible network adapter. I typed USB200M into a search and the first result was v.1.

If you purchased it within 30 days you can return it, by the way. If you really are unhappy with it that's your best option.

Good luck, and I hope you find a solution.

Spiff

02-12-2006, 09:15 AM

What you're doing is not spamming. I think SeanC is wondering if you're simply a troll (which I don't think you are) because there have been many people who come here with an agenda to simply slam TiVo. They create an account and go on a tirade, posting all over the place. You've been pretty specific, but you have to realize we're a little skeptical at times.

You also posted in the "Suggestion Avenue" area, but seemed to be asking for help.

The suggestions I get out of this is:
-Be more specific on the web page regarding what's needed for network connections (which they have in several places already)
-Support more wireless adapters (which they are working on with a beta update, according to you)
-Allow support by email (something I happen to agree with)
-Include Ethernet in the box (which they will with the next version)
-Improve availability of compatible adapters (something TiVo can't control)

SeanC

02-12-2006, 09:21 AM

No seriously I didn't think he was a troll. I was being facetious more than anything else. I know I know I didn't use any smilies or anything, sorry.

digitaltinker

02-12-2006, 09:31 AM

gmcc

02-12-2006, 10:13 AM

Very good and thanks so much for the info. That looks like a good workable solution to the problem. While that model is not on the 'tested' list, it is on the list as 'reported to work' and if it works for you on your 2 then the odds are very good it will work in mine as well.

Thanks again.

I ordered mine from Staples with free online next day delivery (and a price match to CompUSA). This model worked great with my Series 2 Tivo and has a very robust connector that won't break off (since it has an external cord so that the USB to Ethernet adapter can hang and not be like a tab waiting to be broken off). Check the reviews on Amazon. Tivo is specifically mentioned. Only down side is that Staples ususally does not stock this item in its B&M stores. But with free next day delivery, that doesn't matter much to me.

Amazon has this one for $24.95: Belkin F5D5050 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000062R4P/sr=8-1/qid=1139757629/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-1609677-7511107?%5Fencoding=UTF8)

CompUSA has it for $24.99: Belkin F5D5050 (http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=284683&pfp=srch1)

And if you have a Staples Dividends Gold card (free online application), Staples will price match to CompUSA on the phone: Belkin 5FD5050 (http://www.staples.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/StaplesProductDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=10051&langId=-1&productId=16222&cmArea=SEARCH)

gmcc

02-12-2006, 10:41 AM

No, I am not a troll and had no agenda other than trying to get a solution to my current problem, which someone has likely done for me now.

As to this posting belonging in the Help area... hindsight (always excellent) says that might well be right. I started the thread here because including an ethernet port and/or the other things you deduced were all suggestions.

This Tivo-specific network business falls into an area where it wouldn't have even occurred to me that this could even be a potential issue and so I had no need to research it.

I probably just assumed too much but I might liken it to buying a bunch of computers at work...if I see it has an integrated ethernet port it would never occur to me that I would need to research deeply into the chipset used by the manufacturer and/or availability of drivers for such, or that the fine print somewhere might say that it isn't _really_ useable on a ethernet network because of some known flaw in it's implementation on the box, etc.

So I'm off to see about the Belkin adapter from Staples as that looks like the way to go currently.

I'll be around here a while though and time will show that I neither troll or spam in anyone's forums. I have been poking around in forums similar to this since '84 or so, and so I know better. :-)

bcald7

02-12-2006, 11:01 AM

I agree that the USB ports are stupid. I couldn't find a USB200M ver.1 so I went to Office Depot and found the Linksys USB100 thats on the check marked list and it works fine. It's put together cheaply, but once I figured it out, it worked just fine.

I also had to buy a network hub because my router had no ports left. I had to go the Ethernet way because I have Vonage. I was able to do the initial setup using Vonage, but the updates kept failing.

The Ethernet option is much faster and worth the effort. It's just too bad the manufacturer didn't build this option in.

classicsat

02-12-2006, 03:06 PM

And I can't yet find either of those two locally. I did find a Linksys USB200M at a Radio Shack but of course it's the wrong _version_ of that model...and I had to go in the store and look for "an image of an orange and whilte CD-ROM" to determine this. That makes it a little difficult to even mail-order the device (I don't think I can get a place to check the package for that little picture for me before shipping).

Support for the USB200MV2 adapter is avialable with an on-demand update to 7.2.2.

This all just strikes me as a bit looney. If I assume that Tivo _wants_ people to network these boxes, why make it so difficult?

TiVo is making it easy, they have a published list of compatible adapters.

It is the adapter manufacturers making it hard by at least discontinuing the old designs, and at most making the new ones hard ro distinguish from the old ones.

And how much could it cost them to just include an ethernet port on the box? Pennies?

This has been discussed ad infinitum.
It probably wast the cheapest engineering solution at the time.

Or is it just a little extra money making scheme, since I gather they buy up and stock these near obsolete products in the online 'store'?
Au contraire. Even they have been having trouble getting the proper versions for their store.
And their own adapter (which is sold out BTW), is just a means to an end to get a working wireless adapter that is guaranteed to work with the TiVo.

dfreybur

02-14-2006, 10:28 AM

I probably just assumed too much but I might liken it to buying a bunch of computers at work...if I see it has an integrated ethernet port it would never occur to me that I would need to research deeply into the chipset used by the manufacturer and/or availability of drivers for such, or that the fine print somewhere might say that it isn't _really_ useable on a ethernet network because of some known flaw in it's implementation on the box, etc.

That's the deal IMO. When I bought my Tivo I glanced at the back, saw a USB port rather than a Cat-5 port, went to Radio Shack, bought the cheapest USB wireless adapter I could find, then started looking in the index of the book for how to get it to work. I mean it's just a Linux box so it'll have all the generic drivers, right? Ooops! Nope, nothing simple like that.

So then I started reading in more detail. What do you mean there's a short list of supported adapters? I get the point that it was "my responsibility" to look that up in advance, but I've never done that before when dealing with PC hardware. The Tivo in my bedroom isn't exactly some multi-TB storage system from EMC that needs to be looked up in a support grid.

So my request is simple - Include some generic drivers from some Linux distribution, bundle it into the 8.x release so it arrives automagically one night, and be done with all of that nonsense of checking exact model numbers. I mean we're talking about a Tivo here not a high performance box in a data center. So what if it only works at 80% speed in order to work with almost any adapter. Better to "just plain work when plugged in" than to get 100% of the possible throughput.

I have mixed expectations with my Tivo. Is it a custom box that I should never expect to be able to do anything that isn't in the book, or is it some Linux box that I can do pretty much anything with it? I'd never even consider getting the first USB adapter on sale and expect to be able to plug it into my Scientific Atlanta cable box or Playstation 2. But for a Linux desktop at home that's exactly my expectation. A Tivo box, it sorta lives in both realms.

dgh

02-14-2006, 11:09 AM

Does anyone that works for Tivo actually ever read or post anwhere here, or is this just more a way to dump support for thier products on other users?

This forum was created by someone who liked his TiVo and wanted to create a place for TiVo owners to gather. No one was dumping anything. Nonetheless, some TiVo employees do post here - though by "here" I'm really thinking of the help forum and the coffee house. I don't remember seeing them post in the Suggestions Avenue. I believe they use this one as more of a read-only forum for future product ideas. That's usually a good idea for a suggestions forum - you don't want the engineers critiquing the suggestions - just let them flow freely - both the good ones and crazy ones and sort them out later.

TiVo also has a help forum on their own site.

classicsat

02-14-2006, 12:29 PM

So my request is simple - Include some generic drivers from some Linux distribution, bundle it into the 8.x release so it arrives automagically one night, and be done with all of that nonsense of checking exact model numbers. I mean we're talking about a Tivo here not a high performance box in a data center. So what if it only works at 80% speed in order to work with almost any adapter. Better to "just plain work when plugged in" than to get 100% of the possible throughput.

Not as simple as it seems. We are talking about a box that is the farthest thing from a PC, so PC drivers cannot be used (many of the PC Linux drivers being essentially binary ports of Windows drivers), hence have to be built form square one from source code and chipdset data, which has to be made available to TiVo, or developed by the chipset companies for TiVo.

I have mixed expectations with my Tivo. Is it a custom box that I should never expect to be able to do anything that isn't in the book, or is it some Linux box that I can do pretty much anything with it?

The former. It is a custom non-PC appliance that happens to run an proprietary Linux OS, not a PC linux based box that happens to be a DVR.

I'd never even consider getting the first USB adapter on sale and expect to be able to plug it into my Scientific Atlanta cable box or Playstation 2. But for a Linux desktop at home that's exactly my expectation. A Tivo box, it sorta lives in both realms.
It doesn't. It is a closed system. What you know about choosing hardware for a PC should be ignored.

dirtypacman

02-14-2006, 12:45 PM

FYI I have purchased supported ethernet adapters through EBAY for anywhere around $10-$20 w/ shipping --- 4 times!

gmcc

02-19-2006, 03:54 PM

I ordered mine from Staples with free online next day delivery (and a price match to CompUSA). This model worked great with my Series 2 Tivo and has a very robust connector that won't break off (since it has an external cord so that the USB to Ethernet adapter can hang and not be like a tab waiting to be broken off). Check the reviews on Amazon. Tivo is specifically mentioned. Only down side is that Staples ususally does not stock this item in its B&M stores. But with free next day delivery, that doesn't matter much to me.

Partly to report a success and partly to help ensure others that I was _not_ just trolling, I did order the Belkin F5D5050 from Staples. During this weekend I got a wire run to the Tivo box from my router installed and connected, and it appear to be working just fine. I have web-scheduled a recording and done a little of the Tivo to/from my computer and that too seems to be fine.

And despite all the various arguments here to suggest otherwise, I will maintain forever that popping an ethernet port in that box would have solved this issue for everyone, users and Tivo. For the users the advantage would be obvious and for Tivo they'd not have had to spend so much time/man-hours trying to keep drivers installed for the many variations of USB converters. They would have only had to support the ethernet chipset built into their box. Not to mention the goodwill it cost them among a zillion or so users. Of course, hindsite is often nearly perfect.

But... all is well that ends well, and this one seems to have worked out fine for me, and I really _do_ like the fact that this adapter has a pigtail on the USB side rather than the more common one piece deal.

:)