HD SA Tivo with HMO?

[lflorack]

First let me apologize ... I haven't completed reading all related posts here yet and I'll continue to do that, but I wanted to ask a quick question and hope for a favorable answer as I continue coming up to speed.

I have two SA Tivo Series2's. They are on my home LAN and we use the HMO option every day. We love the Tivo interface and the way it always works. We did not like the Scientific American DVR's we had to use before we switched to the two SA Tivo's AND eventually also switched away from TWC to DTV. Anyway, I've recently upgraded my A/V system to HD. We'd love to record HD BUT we do not want to give up Tivo OR HMO. I also know that DTV is going to MPEG4 format later this year.

So with all that in mind, here's the question: Can I (either now or soon) get an HD DVR that's Tivo-based that includes HMO that will work with DTV and MPEG4? For instance, will the upcoming Tivo Series3 do it?

TIA. I'll continue reading the threads but any information here would be great.

[ebonovic]

It would only be the the T3 (Tivo Series 3)...
And we have no solid date on what that would be available.

And it is pretty much 99% certain, that you won't be able to use a T3 with DirecTV service.
(because of the CableCards)

I don't know if the T3 is going to have other input options other then the cable cards.


The MPEG-4 format is just for HD Locals at this point.
The just announced TNT-HD is going to be MPEG-2... thus adding to the fact the the HD package as we know it today, will probably MPEG-2 for a long while to come.

[HogarthNH]

So with all that in mind, here's the question: Can I (either now or soon) get an HD DVR that's Tivo-based that includes HMO that will work with DTV and MPEG4?

Bottom Line: No. Absolutely not.

[lflorack]

Bottom Line: No. Absolutely not.

How about if I give up the MPEG4 requirement?

If not, is the DTV HD DVR (non-Tivo) my next best option?

[HogarthNH]

How about if I give up the MPEG4 requirement?

Still no.

If not, is the DTV HD DVR (non-Tivo) my next best option?

No such thing, yet.

[lflorack]

It would only be the the T3 (Tivo Series 3)...
And we have no solid date on what that would be available.

And it is pretty much 99% certain, that you won't be able to use a T3 with DirecTV service.
(because of the CableCards)

I don't know if the T3 is going to have other input options other then the cable cards.


The MPEG-4 format is just for HD Locals at this point.
The just announced TNT-HD is going to be MPEG-2... thus adding to the fact the the HD package as we know it today, will probably MPEG-2 for a long while to come.

You all may have already answered this in the original answers but I want to ask this a different way. I know (from your replies) that i can't use an S3 directly with D*. The first change is that I can live without the MPG4 format, so that is no longer an immediate concern for me. The other part of the question is this..... If I continue to use D*'s HD receiver and feed that output to the S3, will that work?

I am currently using two of the feeds from my D* dish. One feeds a standard D* reciever -- and that feeds my S2 Tivo without issue. The other feed from the dish goes to the D* HD reciever and it feeds a different port on the TV. Can't I just (when they arrive) add an S3 to the HD feed from the existing HD reciever?

If this is a stupid question (again), I apologize. I'm not underdtanding (yet) why this wouldn't work.

[Tim N.]

[QUOTE=lflorack]You all may have already answered this in the original answers but I want to ask this a different way. I know (from your replies) that i can't use an S3 directly with D*. The first change is that I can live without the MPG4 format, so that is no longer an immediate concern for me. The other part of the question is this..... If I continue to use D*'s HD receiver and feed that output to the S3, will that work?
QUOTE]
The reason you can record from the current equipment is because the output video is 480i. Any HD format video has DRM issues that means you cannot record it (there are some exceptions like firewire to DVCR's), but no component out signals may be copied. A S3 machine cannot copy an HD signal unless it decodes it internally via its QAM tuners or its OTA ATSC tuners. Neither of these types of signals can come from a DTV receiver. A DTV receiver can send an NTSC signal and the S3 could copy that, but that would defeat the benefit of the S3 to begin with.

Sorry, but S3 is for cable and OTA only.

[rminsk]

Any HD format video has DRM issues that means you cannot record it (there are some exceptions like firewire to DVCR's), but no component out signals may be copied. A S3 machine cannot copy an HD signal unless it decodes it internally via its QAM tuners or its OTA ATSC tuners.It is not the DRM requirement that keeps the Series 3 from recording analog or uncompressed high definition video, it is the cost of an mpeg encoder for a high definition signal. The reason it can record a cable card/QAM and OTA ATSC is it does not have to decompress the signal to record it. It just records the raw compressed byte stream.

[lflorack]

The reason you can record from the current equipment is because the output video is 480i. Any HD format video has DRM issues that means you cannot record it (there are some exceptions like firewire to DVCR's), but no component out signals may be copied. A S3 machine cannot copy an HD signal unless it decodes it internally via its QAM tuners or its OTA ATSC tuners. Neither of these types of signals can come from a DTV receiver. A DTV receiver can send an NTSC signal and the S3 could copy that, but that would defeat the benefit of the S3 to begin with.

Sorry, but S3 is for cable and OTA only.

Bummer! It seems that I'm caught in-between on this. If I want to have Tivo Series 2 software with all it's good functionality (i.e., it actually works well), HMO and HD recording capability while staying with DirecTV, I can't get it done. That means either staying with the S2's and not recording HD -- only watching live -- or switching away from DirecTV to cable. I left Time Warner because of their terrible service and higher costs. The only other option is going away from Tivo/HMO.

Thanks for the response. I understand now. I don't like it, but I understand. I'll figure something out eventually.

[PixelFreak]

I may have missed it, but another important issue to think about in this:

The HD Tivo (HR10-250) does not have all of the Tivo functionality that a Series 2, non-DirecTV Tivo has...we don't have HMO, etc.

You may already know that, but since the multi-room viewing (MRV) is important to you, the HD Tivo that is currently offered by DirecTV will not fill that role.

Sorry,
PixelFreak

[MichaelK]

HD aside the series 3 does not appear to have any ability to control or interface with a set tob box of anykind. If that is the case, you cant even use it with an SD directv box.

It's built for cable and OTA- period.

[thumperxr69]

Bummer! It seems that I'm caught in-between on this. If I want to have Tivo Series 2 software with all it's good functionality (i.e., it actually works well), HMO and HD recording capability while staying with DirecTV, I can't get it done. That means either staying with the S2's and not recording HD -- only watching live -- or switching away from DirecTV to cable. I left Time Warner because of their terrible service and higher costs. The only other option is going away from Tivo/HMO.

Thanks for the response. I understand now. I don't like it, but I understand. I'll figure something out eventually.

I must agree wholeheartedly. My local cable Co. sucks. I would like to stay with D* and the S3. Life is full of compromises. :rolleyes:

T

[Runch Machine]

I don't know why you wouldn't get HD Tivo, the HR10-250. It has the Tivo interface you love and records HD both from Directv and over the air. True, it doen't have MRV, but, do you have more than one HDTV?

As long as you get your local channels over the air, there is no reason not to get HD Tivo for Directv. I am missing something here?

[mittelhauser]

I don't know why you wouldn't get HD Tivo, the HR10-250. It has the Tivo interface you love and records HD both from Directv and over the air. True, it doen't have MRV, but, do you have more than one HDTV?

As long as you get your local channels over the air, there is no reason not to get HD Tivo for Directv. I am missing something here?

Um. Every feature that Tivo has added in the last 3 years? HMO, Folders, MRV, etc.

I have 4 HDTVs and 4 HR10-250s. I've been a DirecTv customer for over 10 years and have always subscribed to pretty much everything they offer. In other words, their perfect customer.

I'll be moving to my local Comcast the day that the S3 is released (assuming it does what I hope/believe that it will).

Besides the missing features (issue #1) there are the following issues for me:

Issue #2: DirecTV is moving all of their future content to MPEG4 which the HR10-250 can't receive. Even if you don't care about the new content, this means that you have a legacy device that is quickly becoming a second class citizen. DirecTV will be trying to move you off it, if one breaks, you won't be able to get another, etc, etc.
Issue #3: The HR10-250s performance is a joke. Everytime I mark a program "keep until I delete" and then sit their for (literally) 3-5 minutes, I want to scream at DirecTV for putting so little processor and RAM in a $1000 box (when I bought it)

-Jon

[actionj]

I am going to have to agree with mittelhauser. DTV is going to lose a lot of high quality customers over this. It is excruciating to use the beloved tivo interface but have it be crippled and unusable. I also heard the new mpeg4 dishes are gigantic, way bigger than even the international ones. In Salt Lake City, they are lauching HD locals very soon so in a few months when the new HD DVR comes out, I am forced to get a new gigantic dish that is going to be an eyesore on my newly built house, then I will be using an inferior HD DVR all so I can get HD locals through the dish?? This is stupid because I have a beautiful DLP HDTV so why would I want to display inferior HD signals on it? Some HD on dtv does look okay but a lot of it stinks now, especially the new TNTHD. I have a $15 silver sensor OTA antenna that displays the most pristine quality HD I have ever seen. I saw the specs of the new Series 3 Tivo, and my jaw dropped. Anyone that does not agree has not seen the pictures and specs of the new tivo. So I will probably switch to comcast as well.

[lflorack]

I may have missed it, but another important issue to think about in this:

The HD Tivo (HR10-250) does not have all of the Tivo functionality that a Series 2, non-DirecTV Tivo has...we don't have HMO, etc.

You may already know that, but since the multi-room viewing (MRV) is important to you, the HD Tivo that is currently offered by DirecTV will not fill that role.

Sorry,
PixelFreak

Unfortunately, I do know about the lack of HMO functionality. This is at least a part (probably the biggest part) of the reason I haven't purchased an HR10-20. Thanks for pointing it out though.

[lflorack]

HD aside the series 3 does not appear to have any ability to control or interface with a set tob box of anykind. If that is the case, you cant even use it with an SD directv box.

It's built for cable and OTA- period.

After I posted the pleas for help again in this thread :eek: , I found some pictures of the back of the S3. I found no connections for either serial or IR control of another unit -- such as a receiver or STB. So, I agree, it wouldn't work anyway -- even if everything else was OK. :down:

[lflorack]

I must agree wholeheartedly. My local cable Co. sucks. I would like to stay with D* and the S3. Life is full of compromises. :rolleyes:

T

I can't believe that over time, this won't be worked out. (Maybe it's just that I don't want to believe it.)

[lflorack]

I don't know why you wouldn't get HD Tivo, the HR10-250. It has the Tivo interface you love and records HD both from Directv and over the air. True, it doen't have MRV, but, do you have more than one HDTV?

As long as you get your local channels over the air, there is no reason not to get HD Tivo for Directv. I am missing something here?

It's my understanding that the HR10-20 is essentially loaded with series 1 software versus the series 2's that I currently have. Therefore, the HR10-20 doesn't have HMO capability -- something we use every day. If the S3 were to work OK for me, I'd still have HMO capability - except for HD transfers. Since I'd continue to record some SD programs as well, I'd still be able to use HMO for that as well as have access to the other added functionality of S2's.