Veronica Mars 2/1/2006 (S02E12) "Rashard and Wallace Go to White Castle"

[dswallow]

That was an awful lot of money that the kid working the drive-thru got paid.

For those wondering what happened to the bus crash investigation, this episode was certainly welcome.

Who was that guy who sang the Veronica song?

It looks like Weevil has lost his whole gang. That was unexpected. So much for that anti-drug stance.

[dswallow]

Interesting product placement for White Castle... considering there's no White Castle restaurants in California.

[edc]

Interesting product placement for White Castle... considering there's no White Castle restaurants in California.

I doubt it was a product placement. Once they decided to go with the title (an obvious take off of "Harold and Kumar..."), they had to use the chain in the episode :)

The karoake singer was Britt Daniel, the lead singer of Spoon.

http://www.spoontheband.com/site.html

Nice use of Elvis Costello's "Veronica," especially given her "I'm going straight to hell speech later."

"Is it all in that pretty little head of yours?
What goes on in that place in the dark?"

[cmontyburns]

Interesting product placement for White Castle... considering there's no White Castle restaurants in California.

But there are in Chicago, which is where the White Castle visit in question took place.

I wasn't too keen on this plotline with Wallace when I saw it in previews, so I'm glad they seem to have contained it in one episode. It was developed and resolved pretty well, although they certainly played us, the audience, a bit by deliberately misleading us as to Jackie's role in it. And it's a bit strange to have a Mystery of the Week with such high stakes -- a death and possible jail time for Wallace.

Glad to have the bus crash back in the crosshairs. And it will be interesting to see where the Weevil storyline goes from here. By the way, Curly was a stuntman -- it seems a little hard to swallow that Weevil could have kicked anything of his.

[Amnesia]

By the way, Curly was a stuntman -- it seems a little hard to swallow that Weevil could have kicked anything of his.Acting like you can fight and actually winning a street fight are two different things...

[Amnesia]

I'm surprised that Weevil didn't defend himself more in the confrontation with the PCHers. I don't mean the fight---I mean that when he was accused of hanging out with "the person who killed Felix", he could have responded that he didn't think that Logan did so and explained his reasoning. Instead he was just silent. Sure, maybe as the gang leader he didn't feel that he should have to explain himself, but he didn't even say that. The silence made it seem like he thought it was wrong, too...

[cmontyburns]

Acting like you can fight and actually winning a street fight are two different things...

I would be willing to bet that most stunt people are pretty tough hombres. It would be one thing if Weevil had some help in subduing Curly, but one-on-one... I dunno.

[WinBear]

We finally get a hint that Gia and Woody Goodman have some inside knowledge of the bus crash. This tends to follow Roger Eberts "Conservation of Characters" theory.

I wonder what the scoop is on that upcoming TV News story about Sherriff Lamb, especially since Veronica just told Dad about that earlier in the episode.

[dtle]

So let me get this straight: Wallace's dad, a cop, originally told Wallace to keep quiet about a crime that he's involved in? A crime that Wallace didn't commit? That's sounds very implausible.

[Amnesia]

Just 'cause he's a cop doesn't mean that he's a good cop. Or an honest cop.

[mwhip]

So let me get this straight: Wallace's dad, a cop, originally told Wallace to keep quiet about a crime that he's involved in? A crime that Wallace didn't commit? That's sounds very implausible.

Wallace's dad never knew. The guy's in the car decided to keep it quiet. Once Wallace talked to the reporter and then the Uncle got hold of the reporter and paid off some people they pinned it on Wallace. His Dad came into help with the White Castle guy.

[mwhip]

Also I was a little perterbed with the whole being clever to keep us in the dark again. I pegged Jackie's involvement the minute I saw her at the party.

[TAsunder]

Agreed about the jackie twist, although I knew she was up to something good.

It's been less than 12 hours since I watched it but I've already forgotten what the revelation about steve gutenberg we learned was. DOH. Shouldn't have deleted the ep. Someone recap what we learned about gutenberg and the athlete?

[Fleegle]

Agreed about the jackie twist, although I knew she was up to something good.

It's been less than 12 hours since I watched it but I've already forgotten what the revelation about steve gutenberg we learned was. DOH. Shouldn't have deleted the ep. Someone recap what we learned about gutenberg and the athlete?

In her interview with Sherrif Lamb, she said that her dad told her not to ride the bus home even before she left. That implies that Woody knew something was going to happen.

[mmilton80]

Do you think Weevil will move in with Logan?

[cmontyburns]

Thought I'd post the link to Jeff Jensen's episode recap on EW.com. Worth a read. I think his analysis is spot-on:

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/commentary/0,6115,1155391_3_0_,00.html

[mwhip]

I forgot the one small thing , the scene with Jason Dohring and Kristen Bell had more chemistry than the whole season with Teddy Dunn. Good riddance.

[lonwolf615]

Wallace's dad never knew. The guy's in the car decided to keep it quiet. Once Wallace talked to the reporter and then the Uncle got hold of the reporter and paid off some people they pinned it on Wallace. His Dad came into help with the White Castle guy.

In the teaser Wallace's dad says "See why I told you to be quiet" or words to that effect. Knowing about it explains why he let Wallace return to Neptune to lie low-otherwise it doesn't make any sense he would let him go so easily..
Got my own question: why did they need the uncle's cellphone to find the ones he bribed? Didn't Wallace know who was in the car with him?
I think I've reluctantly accepted cmonty's view. There are going to be plot holes, some huge. Its best not to think about them but in a show that encourages you to think its hard not to notice when it doesn't make sense. And I agree they purposely misled the audience again, something I don't think they ever did in the first season. It seems they are so intent on the overall story arc that they are neglecting the details. Still love the show, but I'm beginning to think its not as smart as I thought it was. Hopefully, Ill be proven wrong.

[TAsunder]

Presumably they needed the cell phone to get the phone number for the white castle guy so that wallace's dad could locate the guy.

[Jonathan_S]

Got my own question: why did they need the uncle's cellphone to find the ones he bribed? Didn't Wallace know who was in the car with him?They needed the uncles cell phone to find the whitecastle clerk that the uncle paid to disappear with the drive-through security tape.

Finding the other players would be easy, as you say, but without something to convince them to stop covering for the star it wouldn't do any good.

Veronica assumed that someone as controlling as the uncle would make sure he had a way to contact the paid off clerk, and that he would be cocky enough to have in stored unprotected on his cell phone / organizer.

[Kamakzie]

Wouldn't swiping the Uncle's phone for evidence be illegal in it's own right?

[mwhip]

Wouldn't swiping the Uncle's phone for evidence be illegal in it's own right?

More illegal than bribing the reporter and the drive thru guy?

[Kamakzie]

More illegal than bribing the reporter and the drive thru guy?

No but I always thought you had to have clean hands when your on the other side.

[mwhip]

No but I always thought you had to have clean hands when your on the other side.

When you are a cop but when you are a PI or junior PI I think it's OK.

[Rob Helmerichs]

Veronica Mars has NEVER let the distinction between right and wrong get in her way. Her willingness to trample other people and break the law to get what she wants has been a recurring theme in the show...

[Church AV Guy]

Veronica has an internal moral compass that overrides the law, and authority. She disobeyed her father last week for something she decided was more important. SHe regretted the loss of trust he now has in her, but she would do it again, because she thought it was the right thing to do.

Her dad isn't really standing on the moral high ground using the tape tape that Veronica recorded to gather evidence. Didn't he get upset with her for planting that bug (literally a beetle, wasn't it?) but now he is getting the benefit. What message does THAT leave with his daughter?

She got the organizer through a "mistake" in a security screen, then found the location of the White Castle employee, then gave it "anonymously" to the Chicago police, Wallace's dad, who acted on the tip. It's all legal, sort of. Can't really prove any of it criminally, can they? The only possible mistake was not tossing the organizer, or putting it into the lost-and-found at the club when they were done with it.

[LoadStar]

Finally got a chance to see this episode tonight (it was preempted for a NBA basketball game last night). I actually thought it was more of a return to form for the series from last week's subpar episode. At least this episode gave Veronica a clearer and more in-character motivation than the whole nonsense from last week.

The whole PCH thing is an interesting way to return to the class warfare theme of the show. I definitely wasn't expecting Weevil to lose his entire gang. As for why he didn't say anything when accused of hanging out with Felix' killer, he probably thought that it would be best not to say anything now, since it would be his word against "Thumper," and Thumper's word would win in that instance.

No, best to keep quiet, take a little violence, then come out swinging when all the evidence is finally collected (and this will likely require a little involvement from Veronica, of course).

[lonwolf615]

Veronica has an internal moral compass that overrides the law, and authority. .

.

Or she's a spoiled little brat used to getting her own way. One of the most fascinating things about this series is that one can never be quite sure ...
I don't remember Keith being upset about the bug-he merely took it. Anyways, he's not basing his investigation on info from that-more the phone message Veronica played for him and the dead rat.
Now, taking the interrogation tapes is something else-definately illegal. But I think Keith tried to do it the right way first and has concluded Lamb is too corrupt or inept to solve the bus crash case. He feels guilty because he didn't do everything he could have to get elected and thus be in charge. So he's decided to solve it himself and do whatever it takes to do it. Well, at least we know where Verinica gets it from...
I really thought Weevil was a dead man at the end. The fact that he wasn't didn't quite ring true for me. If he's already killed once why would he leave someone as dangerous as Weevil alive? Video of him beating someone isn''t going to stop someone like Weevil from getting revenge...

[LoadStar]

I really thought Weevil was a dead man at the end. The fact that he wasn't didn't quite ring true for me. If he's already killed once why would he leave someone as dangerous as Weevil alive? Video of him beating someone isn''t going to stop someone like Weevil from getting revenge...

Well, for one, the biker gang would never kill for Thumper. They're used to the status quo - beat the guy senseless till being called off, then leaving him. Also, despite no longer being in the gang, Weevil is still "one of them" - he's still one of their people... at a certain point, even if Thumper hadn't called them off, they probably would've stopped on their own.

As far as Thumper doing it himself after the gang leaves... well, the rest of the biker gang knew that Thumper was left alone with Weevil., so killing him at that point would raise too many questions. If Thumper really wants Weevil dead, he can find a way at a later point.

[dtle]

Wouldn't swiping the Uncle's phone for evidence be illegal in it's own right?

The cop dad didn't swipe it. Wallace did it. And since he's doing to prove his innocence, I don't think it will hinder the case. But then again, INAL.

[Church AV Guy]

...As for why he didn't say anything when accused of hanging out with Felix' killer, he probably thought that it would be best not to say anything now, since it would be his word against "Thumper," and Thumper's word would win in that instance.

No, best to keep quiet, take a little violence, then come out swinging when all the evidence is finally collected (and this will likely require a little involvement from Veronica, of course).

Agreed! He knew that anything he said that that point would just give away the "investigation," and would sound like a desperate lie. He *IS* weevil after all, so he has endured a beating before. The loss of his bike probably hurt him more than the violence. When he has all the evidence, and can prove who killed Felix, he will be back on top in the gang.

On a slightly different topic, apparently the priest was not guilty, and Felix and that girl (forget her name) really were in love, and not in a crime gang sort of way, but in a Romeo and Juliet sort of way. The first guesses on the part of everybody were wrong.

Logan: "Can't you help me for once without the comments?"
Veronica: "No, if you want my help, then you MUST endure the comments!"

Not exact quotes from the show of course, but the spirit of what they said, and it was glorious. Veronica turned and actually thought about it before she said it. Great acting,and writing.

[Shakhari]

Veronica's confession was interesting. She seems to be well aware of her faults in doing whatever it takes to get the bad guys.

[Magnolia88]

I forgot the one small thing , the scene with Jason Dohring and Kristen Bell had more chemistry than the whole season with Teddy Dunn. Good riddance.

Yes. It's amazing how much better this episode was than many previous episodes and I have to say that Duncan's absence was a significant factor. His scenes were just dragging the show down imho and I am really looking forward to the rest of the season now that he's gone, at least for a while.

There are so many other interesting characters that can get more screen time now that he's gone. I can't get enough of Logan and Weevil's scenes together in particular. Quite an entertaining duo. And KB has more chemistry with both of them than she ever had with Teddy Dunn.

Re: Veronica's actions in this episode: Veronica does have her own moral compass, it's just not in line with the law and what other people might think is moral or ethical. She is certainly willing to bend a lot of rules and do a lot of bad things in the pursuit of what she thinks is a "greater good." But one of the most entertaining things about the show imho is that she gets called on it, by her dad, by Wallace, by lots of people. In this episode, she even acknowledged it herself with the "I'm going to hell" remark. I thought that whole bit was hilarious.

I think the bible verse the Priest quoted to her about trying to use good to fight evil (instead of always going for revenge or trying to "out" your enemy) is going to come back again at some point. I hope so anyway.