Cartoon Network on DirecTV

[Swytch]

Hello, I recently switched from DishNetwork to DirecTV for several reasons, one being the poor quality of Cartoon Network, being most noticeable during the adultswim block of programming. After getting DirecTV set up, I noticed the same poor quality on Cartoon Network with DirecTV (Identical to DishNetwork).

The issue is most noticeable on things like the adultswim bumps where white text is used over a black background, I see spikes of black lines in the white text shooting in and out of the left side of each character. It also occurs with many other colors and is overall very annoying.

My first questions is, does anyone else get this with Cartoon Network on DirecTV?

Its becomming apparent to me that its caused by overcompresion by DirecTV and DishNetwork, but if anyone has any ideas on what may alleviate this problem, please advise.

If it is overcompression, do I have any other options for receiving Cartoon Network with a better picture?

I have a DirecTivo HR10-250, and would like to record Cartoon Network shows onto it, as it is my most watched channel and i enjoy watching the shows over and over. Is there some way i could record a different source onto my receiver?

Thank you,
Swytch

[JimSpence]

Unless you can get The Cartoon Network with an antenna, you are stuck with recording it from DirecTV. The problem you notice is caused by the overcompression by DirecTV.

You can help alleviate this problem by adjusting the brightness and contrast on your TV. These tend to exacerbate the problem.

And, send an email to DirecTV to complain.

[Swytch]

first, i would like to thank you for your reply,

Cartoon Network via an Antenna? its not a local channel so not possible (as far as i know), I do have cable internet with comcast and could potentially get basic cable for free/cheap, would this work? maybe if connected through a vcr to change channel?

I have a projector as my TV, soon to be connected via component (currently svideo, which was best output avail with DishNetwork) will brightness/contrast still help? how much?

I plan on calling DirecTV to complain, is email more effective?

[LostCluster]

Unless you can get The Cartoon Network with an antenna, you are stuck with recording it from DirecTV. The problem you notice is caused by the overcompression by DirecTV.

We're in the DirecTV forum here. The DirecTiVos don't know what to do with an RF signal... it's DirecTV or bust.

[wangmaster]

due to the relatively static nature of animation, artifacting from compression is going to be much much much more noticeable than with live action TV.

Not alot you can do about it other than tweaking TV settings to minimize the effect (or sitting further back to allow your vision to compensate).

Or you can go to analog cable :)

Don't know if cable companies put cartoon network mainly on digital or analog feeds.
Analog feed is going to have it's own drawbacks though. Back in the day when I had analog cable, cartoon network had notoriously bad ghosting with the cable company we have.

[Swytch]

due to the relatively static nature of animation, artifacting from compression is going to be much much much more noticeable than with live action TV.

hmmm, my experience with encoding video on my PC is that compression artifacts are much more noticeable with Live action, and Animation can be compressed much more with no artifacts.

Not alot you can do about it other than tweaking TV settings to minimize the effect (or sitting further back to allow your vision to compensate).

I would have to sit pretty far back from my 100" projection screen... and that would defeat the purpose of my large screen ^_^

Or you can go to analog cable :)

Don't know if cable companies put cartoon network mainly on digital or analog feeds.
Analog feed is going to have it's own drawbacks though. Back in the day when I had analog cable, cartoon network had notoriously bad ghosting with the cable company we have.

My Parents have Analog Cable from Comcast and while its quality is not as good as my Digital Channels, Cartoon Network is much much much better than my reception on Satellite due to this (apparently compression related) issue.

[djdanska]

I have the same issue. Im fairly sure this isn't caused by the compression. It looks like sat issue. It's the same issue i get during sun spots. Static. This is different. I will try to post a screen shot shortly.

Ok, i did something better than a screen shot. Here is a good quality clip. It's fairly obvious what's wrong. Sorry but its a pretty large file. Direct digital feed. No analog used to capture the clip.

Here (http://media.djdanska.com/cartoonfuturama.mp4)

(im still pretty new at video encoding, sorry!)

[darthrsg]

i think its a sat issue, it is on most cable households i seen it on as well. like above poster "sun spots".

[Swytch]

yes this is exactly the same issue i am having... It really doesnt seem like overcompression to me, but everyone else I have asked has told me it is overcompression.

if it is a satelite issue, how can i fix this?

what exactly do you mean by "sun spots"?

DirecTV called me a few minutes ago for a survey about the installation, and I mentioned this problem, so they are sending a Sr. Tech on Friday, anything in particular i should tell him/try to get him to do?

[djdanska]

Like i mentioned before, im fairly sure its not overcompression. Ive seen this on comcast before too. I already sent in a comment with adultswim.com. I don't think this is a directv problem. I think it's something wrong with the main feed or a feed of cartoon network. This isn't new and nick used to be bad too for a while but seems to have improved.
Sun spots is when the sun blocks the sat. End result is snow or no feed. When this happens, you see static on the effected channels (a lot of snow eventually). This happens with all providers. Cable or directv.
I used to "contact us" link at adultswim.com (bottom of page, small print)
If i get a responce, i will post.

[Swytch]

I dont know if messaging adultswim will do a whole lot, its not just adultswim, it happens all throughout Cartoon Network. It also seems unlikely that it is the feed from Cartoon Network, as I didnt have the problem until about mid last year, and recently have watched Cartoon Network at other peoples houses and did not see this error. The only thing I havent been able to confirm is whether or not there are people on DishNetwork or DirecTV that currently do not get this error. Ive been trying to think when I first noticed it, and Im thinking it was after I had DishNetwork move my dish because a tree was blocking its original location. Possibly now the cables are running by something causing interference?

[Hodaka]

I see artifacts on most "animated" shows (cartoons), no matter what channel. I've mentioned it here several times. I didn't noticed any of those problems before I got my R10s. My old RCA receiver always came in crystal clear..

alas, I can't imagine life without my DVR, so I've resolved myself to the fact that there's probably no way it will ever get better..

[Swytch]

yeah i see minor artifacts on other animated shows on other channels, but this is more than a minor artifact, this makes it really hadr to watch the show and read words, see the clip posted by djdanska

[JimSpence]

We're in the DirecTV forum here. The DirecTiVos don't know what to do with an RF signal... it's DirecTV or bust.Okay.:)

[fsck_101]

Although I have noticed compression artifacts on CN, what the OP is describing (the bumper screens with white text on black background) and what is depicted in the video attached by djdanska is not compression artifacts. Could it be the TV? Possibly a line doubler that isn't working properly?

OP, are you seeing this on a big screen TV? If so, how are you connecting from your HR10 to the TV?

[jmoak]

djdanska nailed it.

It's not compression artifacts. It's analog video noise caused by either a weak signal or the receiver not being properly tuned at the directv uplink.

Directv receives the Cartoon Network feed analog from Galaxy1r(133w), transponder 8.

There's nothing you can do but complain and hope someone can convince the uplink to fix it. (The drones at the call centers will tell you it's your tv, I betcha') I see it fine from G1r, no "sparklies" at all.

I've seen this on directv before, but not directly from the G1r feed. (unless I'm off-tuned!)

Nice cap, btw.

[djdanska]

Although I have noticed compression artifacts on CN, what the OP is describing (the bumper screens with white text on black background) and what is depicted in the video attached by djdanska is not compression artifacts. Could it be the TV? Possibly a line doubler that isn't working properly?

OP, are you seeing this on a big screen TV? If so, how are you connecting from your HR10 to the TV?It can't be the tv. The tivo, maybe. The clip i recorded was from a tivo's episode. Extracted digitally. Not with tuner software.

[Swytch]

Although I have noticed compression artifacts on CN, what the OP is describing (the bumper screens with white text on black background) and what is depicted in the video attached by djdanska is not compression artifacts. Could it be the TV? Possibly a line doubler that isn't working properly?

OP, are you seeing this on a big screen TV? If so, how are you connecting from your HR10 to the TV?

just to be clear, its not only during the bumper screens, thats just easier to describe, it is exactly what is depicted in the clip by djdanska.

My big screen TV is my projector (infocus screenplay 5000), it is currently conencted via svideo, although i will be upgrading to component as soon as the longer cable arrives in the mail. However, last night i moved the receiver close to my porjector and used the short component cable that came with the receiver, and the problem is still the same.. Also, I have a standard DirecTV receiver hooked up to a old standard zenith TV via coaxial, and it shows the same problem.

I dont know anything about line doublers, i assume one may be built into projector? any info on hwo to find if this is problem woudl be appreciated...

DirecTV is sending someone to check it out tomorrow, hopefully he can fix it....

[Swytch]

djdanska nailed it.

It's not compression artifacts. It's analog video noise caused by either a weak signal or the receiver not being properly tuned at the directv uplink.

Directv receives the Cartoon Network feed analog from Galaxy1r(133w), transponder 8.

There's nothing you can do but complain and hope someone can convince the uplink to fix it. (The drones at the call centers will tell you it's your tv, I betcha') I see it fine from G1r, no "sparklies" at all.

I've seen this on directv before, but not directly from the G1r feed. (unless I'm off-tuned!)

Nice cap, btw.

this is confusing me a bit, but sounds like the solution i need, any info you can give me so i can better understand and explain to the tech would be greatly appreciated...

[Swytch]

so, the directv tech just left (ended up being same tech that installed), and he couldnt figure anything out, he did say he thinks it may have to do with directvs uplink or cartoon networks uplink.

I let him read the above post about the galaxy1r(133w), and he said we dont use that satelite, as it is on the west. I get 101, 119, and 110. Im in colorado. he said to just call directv and see if i can get the clip to them and get them working on it. he said i may be able to get 133w with an additional satelite, but the receiver wouldnt know what to do with the signal as its set to get information from 101 transponder 12 (denver)

does anyone have any further ideas on how to get this fixed? or information on how i can explain this better to people on the phone?

[jmoak]

Directv receives the Cartoon Network feed analog from Galaxy1r(133w),
(http://www.lyngsat.com/g1r.html) transponder 8.
It is a full bandwidth ntsc video signal, encrypted using GI's old VideoCypher2+ analog system. Directv receives that signal, digitizes it, combines it with other channels and re-broadcasts it on their own satellites for delivery to their customers. It's part of the mux on transponder 18 on Directv's satellites at 101w.
(http://www.lyngsat.com/101west.html)

To the people at Directv's call center (and most installers), the above info may as well be greek. You'll never get them to understand it.

If you could get your cap to someone at the Directv uplink center they would know what to do with it.

How you would do that I have no idea.

Here's a thread about someone with another problem that could only be solved by contacting the uplink. It was fixed, but I don't know if it had anything to do with his posting or not.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=272317&highlight=uplink

I'm sorry I can't be of more help.
:o

[maharg18]

It sounds like you AND the tech are confused! :)

Galaxy 1R is the satellite that Cartoon Network uplinks to, and Directv, Comcast, etc receive their signal from that bird and then send it to you.

The problem is either caused at Cartoon Network's uplink, or at the receive end at Directv. Unfortunately communicating this to either Directv or CN is going to be hard/impossible.

[Swytch]

thank you for all the info, DirecTV is sending it to an "escelated problem department" and im supposed to call a special number back in 72 hours... hopefully all this info will help.

one thing im still confused on is, jmoak, you said you used to see the problem, but dont anymore by getting from g1r... if it is the uplink from g1r to directv, and this was fixed for you, why am i getting the problem and youre not? how do i get them to fix it for me like it was fixed for you?

how do i get directly from the g1r feed?

thank you,
swytch

[jmoak]

The uplink to G3r is not only for Directv, but for cable companies, other dth satellite providers, mso's.... anyone that can receive it and has an old vc2+ (as maharg18 posted above). I can receive the CN feed on a c-band antenna (otherwise known as a "big ugly dish" or "BUD";)). an analog receiver and the consumer version of the vc2+.

The problem is not with the CN uplink to G3r, but in directv's receiving equipment at their transmit site.

btw, I stated earlier that the problem was due to "off tuning" or a weak signal. The problem could also be that the signal they are receiving is too strong. Less likely, but also possible. (overloading the receiver's frontend)

Someone at work pointed that out to me this afternoon, so I stand corrected.
:o

[Swytch]

where can i get this equipment you use and how much woudl it cost/how hard is it to set up?

would i be able to hook this up to my directv tivo to record?

[DesignDawg]

where can i get this equipment you use and how much woudl it cost/how hard is it to set up?

would i be able to hook this up to my directv tivo to record?

Man, again, he's talking about the BIG UGLY dishes... The 12-foot kind you see rotting away in front of people's houses from the 80's (no offense to thos of you who still have them.)

This kind:http://www.videointerchange.com/images/Big-Dish.jpg

They actually have motors on them and physically move to point to satellites when you change channels. It can take seconds (minutes?) to change channels.

Cost: A lot.
Hard to set up: Yes
And no, you can't use it with your DirecTV equip. It's completely different.

RIcky

[Swytch]

thats what i thought, but i figured id ask to see if it was something i could set up to get just Cartoon Network from a different source....

[Mr2sday]

I want a dish like that for some stir fry.

Am I understanding correctly that cartoon network's signal from D*'s sats get sent over from a different sat? That is cool, I didn't know that happened.

[maharg18]

ALL networks, Discovery Channel, CNN, Cartoon Network, CSPAN, etc, etc, etc get sent up on satellite, typically C-band, either analog or digital.

Cable companies and providers like Directv and Dishnetwork then receive the signal and rebroadcast it to us.

[Swytch]

could someone give me a little more information about transponders? can you be off tune on one transponder on galaxy1r (133w) and on tune to other transponders?

I noticed on galaxy1r (133w), cartoon network is on transponder 8 by itself, and also on transponder 15 and 16 with other turner channels, would this explain why cartoon network is off tune, but TBS,TNT, and TCM look fine?

[maharg18]

It is sent digitally on transponders 15 & 16 with those other channels, while it is analog on transponder 8. More than likely they are working on phasing out the analog signal, as you can cram multiple digital channels on a single transponder as opposed to only 1 analog channel per transponder, therefore saving some money.

Also it is possible to be slightly mis-tuned when receiving a transponder signal, although somewhat unlikely since they are presumably receiving everything else ok from Galaxy1R. It could be an issue with the particular receiver that they use to receive Cartoon Network.

[ozy666]

I have this exact same problem with the Cartoon Network. Has there been any further information about it?

Ozy

[stevel]

"off tune"? The issue isn't transponders or "tune", it's compression choices made by DirecTV.

[willardcpa]

Yeah, but "off tune" IS one of the compression settings. Its just above, "hey the guys on a two year committment, screw him." ;) :D