TiVo has streaming music, why not steaming video

[endicot]

Instead of copying to the TiVo hard drive, why not just stream it. I had the D-Link MediaLounge DSM-320 before I got my TiVo (I sold it to offset the TiVo cost). It had no HD, but could stream full quality video straight to the TV without any delay. Stream media content from your PC to your TV instantly.


TiVo has streaming music, why not video?

[megazone]

Streaming only works when the network is fast enough, while copying works even if it isn't. With a lot of users still using 11b or 10baseT, copying is 'safer' for TiVo. It also means the HW doesn't need to be setup to be optimized for streaming, copies are easier, and you can prioritize the copying lower to make sure it doesn't interfere with any recording or viewing.

Streaming is something that could be added in software down the road.

[endicot]

I used the 11b, and streaming was top quality without any delay. No HD transfer needed.

If streaming is something that could be added in software down the road, is anyone working on it? TiVo team, or open source Galleon team? I'd even pay a little extra for a software update with this feature.

[gonzotek]

I used the 11b, and streaming was top quality without any delay. No HD transfer needed.

If streaming is something that could be added in software down the road, is anyone working on it? TiVo team, or open source Galleon team? I'd even pay a little extra for a software update with this feature.Out of curiousity, what kind of content were you streaming, mpeg4, mpeg2, or other? The mpeg2 video that TiVo understands can be anywhere between 2-5 times(or more) the size of a roughly equivalent quality mpeg4 file (depending on many factors).

[megazone]

I used the 11b, and streaming was top quality without any delay. No HD transfer needed.But was it MPEG2? (Which is all the TiVo HW can handle - well, and MPEG1, but that's worse). If it was MPEG2 then it wasn't 'top quality', because you'd be talking about something around 6Mbps, or higher, for even 480x480 video at good quality (TiVo's 'Best'), and while you might get that sustained in 11b, I wouldn't bet on it. I know 11b is supposed to be 11Mbps, but that's peak, and sustained throughput tends to be maybe half that. The more devices on the network, the less any given device is going to see on sustained streams. DVD content can hit 10Mbps.

The D-Link (http://www.dlink.com/products/?pid=318) does support MPEG-4 and AVI (WMV9 I'm sure) which are usually half, or less, the size of MPEG2 files for a given resolution. So those would be more likely to stream OK over 11b. The Series3 will support MPEG-4 and VC-1 (aka WM9).

But I am not aware of any plans to add streaming to the TiVo. And it is something that would have to be done on the TiVo itself. That isn't the feature set TiVo is targeting, at least not at this time.

[lafos]

The other point on streaming is it's a time-sensitive, busy activity. I can record a show, MRV, play, and copy from the PC, and the TiVo uses its priority base to get it all done (eventually). If you streamed the video, the TiVo probably could do nothing else, as it's a pretty slow processor.

[jmemmott]

I doubt that transfer rates would really be an issue. I use streaming to Hauppauge MediaMVP boxes that have similar stream playback requirements as the TiVo. Even full DVD quality videos ( 720x480, 9.8Mbps ) typically only consumes about 850 KB/s. Best quality TiVo recordings require a little less (5.8Mbps ~ 700 KB/s). The compression in the MPEG files makes it a little difficult to extrapolate from the video bitrate to the required network bandwidth.

The real issue is the data path in the devices. Devices such as the MediaMVP have a hardware path from the network interface chips to an MPEG Decoder chip and on to the video output. It is a very efficient way to produce composite video output with no cpu requirements. The TiVO takes in broadcast video rather than MPEG2 PS, converts it to a non-standard MPEG stream on disk and separately reads non-standard MPEG streams from the disk and decodes those with an MPEG chip to create the video output. These two pieces operate independently to allow for recording one stream while watching another. I don’t think there is a way to bypass either the disk read/write operation or the conversion to the TiVo file format in this design. You might be able to hide it but you wouldn’t gain anything in the process.

[dylanemcgregor]

So just out of curiosity; what's the appeal of streaming? Is it just about temporarily saving the space on the TiVo? My experience with streaming audio or video to my PC over the internet has generally been poor, more times than not it seems to have to pause and rebuffer multiple times during the stream. I don't mind waiting if I can avoid that.

What I'd really like to see is a way to copy my music files to the TiVo drive rather than stream them... :p

Dylan

[manielse]

So just out of curiosity; what's the appeal of streaming?...

What I'd really like to see is a way to copy my music files to the TiVo drive rather than stream them... :p


I agree in some respects. I'd like it to be kind of how you today transfer from Tivo to Tivo where you can begin watching the transfer but it may have to pause if you are trying to watch it "live".

The problem is really that there is almost no streams out there on the internet that are already in a "TiVo friendly" format. I'm still trying to fill this gap somehow and hopefully post selected contect at tivocast.net (not up for public yet).

Mark

[jmemmott]

So just out of curiosity; what's the appeal of streaming? Is it just about temporarily saving the space on the TiVo? My experience with streaming audio or video to my PC over the internet has generally been poor, more times than not it seems to have to pause and rebuffer multiple times during the stream. I don't mind waiting if I can avoid that.

What I'd really like to see is a way to copy my music files to the TiVo drive rather than stream them... :p

Dylan

I think it depends on what you use streaming for. It has wider use than just the delivery of Internet content. My use tends to be in the opposite direction. I let my TiVo and Galleon do the recording and transfer everything to my PC. I get home too late to watch most of the early evening news so I record it every night. I don't have the room or the desire to put a TiVo in my kitchen but the device I use for streaming is only 5"x5"x1" and < $50. With a small TV, I can catch the news as I cook or clean up after dinner. I don't know how I would do it otherwise...

[HDTiVo]

Instead of copying to the TiVo hard drive, why not just stream it. I had the D-Link MediaLounge DSM-320 before I got my TiVo (I sold it to offset the TiVo cost). It had no HD, but could stream full quality video straight to the TV without any delay. Stream media content from your PC to your TV instantly.


TiVo has streaming music, why not video?
What TiVo does is a hybrid of download and streaming. It has two disadvantages over true streaming:
1. It takes some HD space
2. You can't jump way ahead in the program (beyond the downloaded point) and have the download/stream pick up at that later point.

Which of these bothers you?

[dylanemcgregor]

I agree in some respects. I'd like it to be kind of how you today transfer from Tivo to Tivo where you can begin watching the transfer but it may have to pause if you are trying to watch it "live".

Isn't this how it currently works? I don't get real time transfers on my wireless B network, but I can still watch something as it is being transfered. I just give it a 10 minutes or so head start. If I was on a wired network this much leadtime wouldn't be necessary.

-Dylan

[lafos]

Actually, with a wired network and medium quality, MRV is more than 2x real-time for me, so no delay is needed. It's much slower putting it back from the PC. There I plan ahead and give it a big head start.

[HDTiVo]

TiVoCast 2.0 doesn't do the streamloading that the TiVo does with video transfers.

You have to wait for the entire download.