Does the Series 3 Tivo Support PIP? [Text View]

ZeoTiVo

01-16-2006, 08:44 PM

This thread (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=282245) reminded me of all the questions I've read here over the years about the window button on most Tivo remotes that doesn't do anything.

With a dual tuner HD Tivo on the horizon, does anyone know (or think) that the window button will finally support Picture in Picture?

:cool:

since the windows button is gone from the remote and replaced byan aspect button, it looks like the windows button will remain a mystery that fades away with time

rainwater

01-16-2006, 08:58 PM

pdhenry

01-16-2006, 09:02 PM

Isn't the Series 3 basically vaporware at this point (no offense, TiVo gang, but...)?

weathertop

01-16-2006, 09:11 PM

since the windows button is gone from the remote and replaced byan aspect button, it looks like the windows button will remain a mystery that fades away with time

D'oh! Even though I saw the Series 3 in person at the CES, I was never able to get a close look at the remote as the Tivo reps were pretty clingy with it....no doubt to keep it from walking away.

So, yeppers, I agree that the disappearance of this button bodes ill for any PIP functionality.

Isn't the Series 3 basically vaporware at this point (no offense, TiVo gang, but...)?

Vaporware? We know that there are at least 2 HD Tivos floating around that were at the CES.

:D

gtrogue

01-16-2006, 10:01 PM

No need for PIP if you have two live TV buffers. If you want to surf you can just pause one show, flip to the other tuner and surf away.

I also dislike the small viewing window that many (most) cable DVR's have. I call it the spoiler window. Nothing like turning on your TV to watch a show with five minutes remaining and have to watch and listen to it while you dig through unintuitive menus trying to start the show from the beginning. Anyway, as with PIP this is a useless feature when you can pause a show or rewind it when you are finished doing whatever you're doing.

ChuckyBox

01-17-2006, 12:31 AM

No need for PIP if you have two live TV buffers. If you want to surf you can just pause one show, flip to the other tuner and surf away.

Good point. If only I had a dual-tuner TiVo, I would know such things, too. :(

chedzo

01-17-2006, 08:44 AM

if you have a large tv, and are a sports fan on a saturday or sunday - especially during march madness or bowl game day - PIP is very useful because you want to watch both tuners live simultaneously, and for extended periods of time.

Royster

01-17-2006, 09:19 AM

I also dislike the small viewing window that many (most) cable DVR's have. I call it the spoiler window. Nothing like turning on your TV to watch a show with five minutes remaining and have to watch and listen to it while you dig through unintuitive menus trying to start the show from the beginning.

So, hit pause first.

ZeoTiVo

01-17-2006, 10:13 AM

Isn't the Series 3 basically vaporware at this point (no offense, TiVo gang, but...)?

well the vapor looked pretty functional at CES :rolleyes:

gtrogue

01-17-2006, 02:19 PM

So, hit pause first.
I can say the same to the people that like the little window and don't have it on the Tivo.
Ultimately, it is a worthless feature in a product that allows you to pause and backup to any point you'd like.

PIP and viewing windows when menus and guides are displayed are remnants of an old, live, uncontrollable TV watching paradigm. Sadly this viewing mentally is so totally entrenched that many (most) people have an extremely hard time adapting to a world where "live" TV is unimportant.

I've adapted fully and it is one of the reasons that all other DVR's pale in comparison to Tivo in my view. Tivo is the only PVR that fully embraces the new TV watching paradigm.

Dan203

01-17-2006, 03:06 PM

One of the features I was hoping it would have is the ability to perform functions without hiding the current livetv. That is one of the features from Moxi that I have really come to like.

Really? I hate that feature. Every time I switch over to my Moxi I have to mute the reciever and try not to look at the little minature picture to avoid ruining recorded programs. This is especially troublesome when watching football as it's kind of worthless to watch the game delayed if you already know the score at the current live point.

Edit: Wow I just totally smeeked! :)

Dan

rainwater

01-17-2006, 03:10 PM

Really? I hate that feature. Every time I switch over to my Moxi I have to mute the reciever and try not to look at the little minature picture to avoid ruining recorded programs. This is especially troublesome when watching football as it's kind of worthless to watch the game delayed if you already know the score at the current live point.

Edit: Wow I just totally smeeked! :)

Dan

Maybe you don't watch live tv. I do though. And many times I will setup recordings, etc, during commercials. And the live tv window allows you to do this and to monitor what's on the channel. Also, its great to use if you watch the news. I get a lot of things done during the news since actually seeing it full screen isn't that beneficial most of the time.

gtrogue

01-17-2006, 03:58 PM

Maybe you don't watch live tv. I do though. And many times I will setup recordings, etc, during commercials. And the live tv window allows you to do this and to monitor what's on the channel. Also, its great to use if you watch the news. I get a lot of things done during the news since actually seeing it full screen isn't that beneficial most of the time.
Again, why not pause, do whatever you are going to do and then go back and watch what you were watching?
Is it just an issue of having something going on and you really aren't watching it? Is it just background noise?
If so, then you really aren't watching live TV.

Like I said before, this issue is part of an old TV watching paradigm. In the old days you always had to be worried about missing something so PIP and viewing windows were nice conveniences. In the new PVR paradigm they are unnecessary annoyances.

lajohn27

01-17-2006, 10:11 PM

Different strokes .. everyone uses their toys a little different.

Sometimes I'll pause to register a recording or check something while I am thinking of it.. but a lot of times I will use the guide to check sometime in the middle of a programs duller moments..

Doesn't mean I'm still not aware of what's happening in the program.

rainwater

01-17-2006, 10:59 PM

lauerpic

01-18-2006, 12:08 AM

Again, why not pause, do whatever you are going to do and then go back and watch what you were watching?
Is it just an issue of having something going on and you really aren't watching it? Is it just background noise?
If so, then you really aren't watching live TV.

Like I said before, this issue is part of an old TV watching paradigm. In the old days you always had to be worried about missing something so PIP and viewing windows were nice conveniences. In the new PVR paradigm they are unnecessary annoyances.

I have to agree with gtrogue. I have one S2 Tivo and one (horrible) Time Warner DVR. I love the Tivo interface, and really hate the generic Time Warner DVR interface. I won't get into specifics on this post except for the current topic of pausing or not pausing live TV.

If a commercial comes on, I fast forward it past the commercial. If it's live TV, which I RARELY every watch (it's a waste of time to wait through commercials, imo), I'll pause live TV to use the restroom, grab a snack, take the dog out quickly, answer the phone, etc. When I'm done, I'll play where I paused it or fast forward if it's at a commercial.

However, I can't explain enough how irritating it is on the Time Warner DVR to be in the middle of a show, get to a commercial, pause it, go into the "list" to see what else has been recorded only to see what the DVR is also recording on another channel. It has almost many time caused me to see the climatic part of the show.

I don't need to see, and frankly, don't want to see a small screen of live TV of a show that is being recorded when I'm not ready to watch that particular show.

With all that being said, I know some people are stuck in a time that has since gone, and with today's technology, Tivo should give a user the option to allow the window or to not allow the window. That way, everyone who wants it can use it, and those of us with different viewing habits can choose to not enable that feature.

gtrogue

01-18-2006, 07:17 AM

Why would you need to pause live tv. That seems like an unnecessary step. This is the 21st century. Hardware limitations shouldn't have to be a factor anymore to developing the software. Btw, a lot of the modern PVR software allows viewing of the current live TV buffer while using the interface. The reason its not in TiVo is partly due to the limitations of the hardware. With more modern hardware you will see it because it allows the user to use the interface and still experience live tv.

For people who have used TiVo for years, I can understand why they wouldn't like it. I love the TiVo interface, but I have found myself wishing TiVo had this after using Moxi. I am not a big fan of the rest of the Moxi interface however.
I doubt it is a hardware limitation. Tivo could probably implement it if they wished. They obviously thought of PIP or some such functionality when the Series 2 was developed. Hence the "Window" button on the remote.

Hey, even I thought the little viewing window would be a nice addition when I got my first Tivo in '99. Now, based on my experience with cable DVR's the spoiler windows are just a nuisance.

Dan203

01-18-2006, 12:58 PM

Back in the early days of the Series 2, when you could still access the back door code, I tried looking at the log after pressing the PIP/Window button and it said something about DirecTV. So I think the original intention of the PIP/Window button was to add PIP functionality to the dual tuner DirecTiVo units. However for whatever reason they scrapped that feature and changed the label on the button to Window. What I don't get is if they knew the feature was scrapped why didn't they switch back to the original design with the Stand By button? Seems a lot more useful then a button that does nothing.

Dan

tgibbs

01-18-2006, 01:02 PM

I doubt it. The DirecTiVo has dual tuners for recording, but only one output. So although you can record two shows at once and watch a third, you can't monitor anything but the one being displayed.
Hope I'm wrong, but I suspect the Series 3 will be the same.

This is not a deciding hardware factor. Some cable company dual tuner PVRs support PIP with a single output. The TV doesn't even require a PIP feature--the entire display, including the PIP inset, is generated by the cable box and output to the TV.

mattack

01-18-2006, 08:22 PM

This is not a deciding hardware factor. Some cable company dual tuner PVRs support PIP with a single output. The TV doesn't even require a PIP feature--the entire display, including the PIP inset, is generated by the cable box and output to the TV.

Yeah, my Toshiba XS32 does this. I use its pip to check out what it's recording, or channel flip, while watching something from its harddrive or even while watching a DVD.

pendragn

01-18-2006, 09:24 PM

well the vapor looked pretty functional at CES :rolleyes:
Did they have a functional unit at last year's CES? I thought they did, and there was nothing in the wild this year. So effectively vaporware.

Unless of course they didn't have one at last year's CES, then I just look silly. :D

tk

ZeoTiVo

01-18-2006, 09:41 PM

Did they have a functional unit at last year's CES? I thought they did, and there was nothing in the wild this year. So effectively vaporware.

Unless of course they didn't have one at last year's CES, then I just look silly. :D

tk

it was nothing like what they had and demoed this year. I read about the one under Glass and think I saw mention of one one they had working but it was not for people to browse around the menu's in.

A definite progression as oppossed to just the same old same old

pendragn

01-18-2006, 09:49 PM

it was nothing like what they had and demoed this year. I read about the one under Glass and think I saw mention of one one they had working but it was not for people to browse around the menu's in.

A definite progression as oppossed to just the same old same old
I guess my point is that just because they have a very real one at CES, doesn't necesarily mean it won't be vaporware for the general public. You did that eyerolling thing like the guy was an idiot. It just didn't seen like that idiotic of a comment.

tk

HDTiVo

01-18-2006, 10:30 PM

ZeoTiVo

01-18-2006, 10:47 PM

I guess my point is that just because they have a very real one at CES, doesn't necesarily mean it won't be vaporware for the general public. You did that eyerolling thing like the guy was an idiot. It just didn't seen like that idiotic of a comment.

tk

did not know my use of the eyeroll emoticon had that much power. To me the eyeroll is more of a "come on, do you really think that" and not so much your interpretation of "what an idiot" Of course context can matter, but as you point out - the context of the post I replied to was not out of hand

as to the vaporware point - the box was functional. TiVo clearly had the software labled "ALPHA". I saw no evidence of trying to make something look like more than it was .

TiVoPony also stated repeatedly "second half of 2006"
Vaporware has to have exceeded the stated time period to be vaporware and there is no evidence to support this series 3 can not be ready by then other than the past which is circumstantial and not directly applicable. certainly the time period has not been passed.
I will give you vaporware at Thanksgiving but still feel comfortable it will merely be late and not a never possesed product.

DCIFRTHS

01-19-2006, 01:17 AM

This is not a deciding hardware factor. Some cable company dual tuner PVRs support PIP with a single output. The TV doesn't even require a PIP feature--the entire display, including the PIP inset, is generated by the cable box and output to the TV.

That is the way it works on my Scoentific Atlanta 8300HD.

DCIFRTHS

01-19-2006, 01:22 AM

No need for PIP if you have two live TV buffers. If you want to surf you can just pause one show, flip to the other tuner and surf away. ....

Do we have any confirmation that there are two live buffers?

megazone

01-19-2006, 01:22 AM

I asked at CES - the Series3 will not do PIP.

DCIFRTHS

01-19-2006, 01:55 AM

I asked at CES - the Series3 will not do PIP.

Did you notice if the Series 3 has the classic TiVo style guide, or is it only the grid style guide?

rainwater

01-19-2006, 07:45 AM

Did you notice if the Series 3 has the classic TiVo style guide, or is it only the grid style guide?

They showed the Grid style guide in the demo video. However, it possibly supports the TiVo style guide as well (I'm willing to bet it does).

megazone

01-19-2006, 01:54 PM

Did you notice if the Series 3 has the classic TiVo style guide, or is it only the grid style guide?I believe it does both, but I didn't take special note of it.

Justin Thyme

01-19-2006, 02:55 PM

I asked at CES - the Series3 will not do PIP.
This pretty much settles the speculation. However, it is interesting to note that the likely hardware chips** being used do support an overlay window from a different video stream- usable for PIP and other features like say an video window from an RSS video blog giving commentary on a movie, sports, or political event.

**My wild ass crackpot guess is that the guts of the S3 is a Broadcom BCM7038 with a BCM7411. The 7038 (http://www.broadcom.com/collateral/pb/7038-PB01-R.pdf) has the "PIP" features. [Edit- err- meant to say the newer BCM7401 which incorporates both the 7411 and 7038 features- which I assume means capability to do PIP like features. See later notes in this thread.]

DCIFRTHS

01-20-2006, 12:36 AM

This pretty much settles the speculation. However, it is interesting to note that the likely hardware chips** being used do support an overlay window from a different video stream- usable for PIP and other features like say an video window from an RSS video blog giving commentary on a movie, sports, or political event.

**My wild ass crackpot guess is that the guts of the S3 is a Broadcom BCM7038 with a BCM7411. The 7038 (http://www.broadcom.com/collateral/pb/7038-PB01-R.pdf) has the "PIP" features.

The chip you reference doesn't seem to support PATA (unless I missed something). Could this mean a move from PATA to SATA drives? I thought that I heard, maybe in the video with Pony, that the drives in the S3 are PATA...

megazone

01-20-2006, 11:17 AM

The drive inside the box is PATA, the external drive is SATA - that's what I was told when I asked.

HDTiVo

01-20-2006, 11:37 AM

The drive inside the box is PATA, the external drive is SATA - that's what I was told when I asked.
Ultimately, they all look like DATA to me.

Justin Thyme

01-20-2006, 03:02 PM

The chip you reference doesn't seem to support PATA (unless I missed something). Could this mean a move from PATA to SATA drives? I thought that I heard, maybe in the video with Pony, that the drives in the S3 are PATA... :eek: :o :o By golly, this is not the product brief (7411), that when I saw it I went- aha- that could be the S3. Total mess up on my part. I am sorry. The CPU chip that I took a wild ass guess** was the S3's was the BCM7401 (http://www.broadcom.com/collateral/pb/7401-PB01-R.pdf)- broadcom announced it just last august.

Not that this gets me out of the fire of your objection- the 7401 doesn't have on chip PATA either. Was there PATA on the chip for 2.5's bcm chip? I don't recall- of was it just pci support there too?

Maybe Tivo had been pushing for this design in silicon and was waiting for such a design in order to do an economical S3 (no S2.0 hardware followed by S2.5 cheaper version). Just take a look at those specs- sata, opencable ready mpod (multistream) dual smart card, PCI bus, USB etc etc. The brief shows it paired with the BCM3255 (http://www.broadcom.com/products/Cable/Cable-Set-top-Box-Chips/BCM3255)- handling Cableco protocols. No idea what would do the MPEG2 encoding off of cable analog.... Oh well. Fun guessing, but the thing is that this beast is not going to be a mass of chips on a board. It is going to be very low chip count despite the Kitchen sink of features that the s3 list appears to have.

** really I did blurt this out in the CES aftermath (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3664178&&#post3664178) I will have to go back and correct the note last week where I first mixed up 7411 with 7401.

DCIFRTHS

01-20-2006, 06:00 PM

The drive inside the box is PATA, the external drive is SATA - that's what I was told when I asked.

...and I believe that Pony stated it in the video too, buy I'm too lazy to watch it again :p

For many reasons, it could be that the information you were given was wrong. If they are going to use one of the chips mentioned, it would make sense to use a SATA drive. PATA drives are a bit cheaper, but then they would need a bridge chip or a separate PATA controller which might offset the cost of using cheaper drives.

Simple is better, and if the integrated chip has the horsepower to do all that it's required to do, than SATA is the way to go. IMO, of course :)

megazone

01-20-2006, 08:04 PM

Well, I was told 'IDE' specifically by two people, neither of whom was Pony. So it is a widespread error if it is. :-)

grooves12

01-20-2006, 09:58 PM

The one they had at CES previously was NOT a cablecard Tivo... it was a purely QAM/ATSC for analog cable and OTA, which there was essentially no market for and why it became Vaporware.

This is a very different unit that based on the hype generated from the showing would be wildly successful upon release. It offers BETTER functionality than the DirecTivo units, by having all of its positives and none of its negatives, and will be in a market where there is a bigger user-base.

Plus, Tivo came out and said this WILL be available this year... they never said anything similar for the ATSC/QAM Tivo. All they said was they were looking into the market and it COULD be released if need be.... much different this time around.

Justin Thyme

01-20-2006, 11:52 PM

The one they had at CES previously was NOT a cablecard Tivo... it was a purely QAM/ATSC for analog cable and OTA, which there was essentially no market for and why it became Vaporware...You are refering to the CES2003 standalone (http://www.pbase.com/image/10792288), and you are right. None of the OEMs saw a market for it and didn't elect to build it.

However, at CES2005 there was a cablecard research prototype, and they did have a date- sometime in 2006 was the word at the time.

smyrna403

01-21-2006, 12:03 AM

You are refering to the CES2003 standalone (http://www.pbase.com/image/10792288), and you are right. None of the OEMs saw a market for it and didn't elect to build it.

However, at CES2005 there was a cablecard research prototype, and they did have a date- sometime in 2006 was the word at the time.

If i remember correctly they said it should be available this time next year in 05' but once again they have not followed through with thier timeline. If they dont do something soon i will be forced to replace my 3 tivo's with comcast dvr's it is so unfortunate that such a cutting edge company is now VERY behind the times. we all have wanted HD for a long time and i think it is definatly hurting thier numbers by being so slow.

HDTiVo

01-21-2006, 09:49 AM

You are refering to the CES2003 standalone (http://www.pbase.com/image/10792288), and you are right. None of the OEMs saw a market for it and didn't elect to build it.

What happens if someone reads that press release and notices that it promised satellite HD recording as well?

The one they had at CES previously was NOT a cablecard Tivo... it was a purely QAM/ATSC for analog cable and OTA, which there was essentially no market for and why it became Vaporware.

This is a very different unit that based on the hype generated from the showing would be wildly successful upon release. It offers BETTER functionality than the DirecTivo units, by having all of its positives and none of its negatives, and will be in a market where there is a bigger user-base.

Plus, Tivo came out and said this WILL be available this year... they never said anything similar for the ATSC/QAM Tivo. All they said was they were looking into the market and it COULD be released if need be.... much different this time around.
Hype. The unprecedented coverage in TCF - read by over 73 million tech savvy, early adopter Americans. The enormous MGM Ballroom presentation with attendance that made ViiV/Vista look like AA Baseball. The frenzied crowds at Caeser's playing HD Pony Poker at the $100 tables.

Justin Thyme

01-21-2006, 09:56 AM

Oh. I just read the label. :o So HD, was that the reference design that Hughes went for and is now known as the DirecTv HD Tivo?

smyrna403 - In any case, if it was an OTA only box, name an HD DVR that can only record OTA that is a smash up success.

If they had come out with an OTA only DVR, then what- you would be here saying- look what a disaster Tivo is at predicting technology trends?

I think you misread the value of the cableco giveaways. What the cablecos are doing is letting everyone know some of the things DVRs are good for. When they want more, the cableco cannot deliver, and when they look for more, they come to Tivo. It's as if no one knew what beef was like, they are giving away bologna rollups. After they get balogna for free, they know what is interesting about meat. And why they would pay a nominal charge for steak.

The beauty is that due to the giveaways, none of the heavyweight CE companies want to enter the DVR market. So much the better for Tivo. All the competition DVRs are built to specifications of companies who regard DVRs as a cost center.

It's really quite beautiful. So long as they keep cranking out lousy UIs and crappy service, you couldn't wish for a more ideal set of competitors. They giveaway people's first DVR.

Tivo is doing a respectable job selling against "free", but doesn't need to win at being people's first DVR. They need to win at being everyone's second DVR.

HDTiVo

01-21-2006, 10:16 AM

Meals would be so much easier if the Cable Cos. could turn vegetarians into meat eaters. What a feast for TiVo!

The unit they showed in '03 was seperate from the HD Direct TiVo, which obviously did see the light of day. Maybe back then they had enough relationship with Direct that they could design a unit could do HD Satellite in addition to OTA - even though the unit would not be a box sold through DirecTV.

Maybe they have made a strategic decision in the present that by totally not supporting satellite they can get Cable to be their ally; cable's interest being stop the loss to satellite. Maybe that's lemonade from lemons - because satellite dumped TiVo - but whatever works.

ChuckyBox

01-21-2006, 10:18 AM

If i remember correctly they said it should be available this time next year in 05' but once again they have not followed through with thier timeline. If they dont do something soon i will be forced to replace my 3 tivo's with comcast dvr's it is so unfortunate that such a cutting edge company is now VERY behind the times. we all have wanted HD for a long time and i think it is definatly hurting thier numbers by being so slow.

You can say that TiVo is being slow, but the cable industry has done everything in its power to delay CableCARD, to cripple the functionality, and to thwart every attempt by the CE industry to get a foothold in their business. If the original timeline for CableCARD had been kept, you would probably already have a CC2 HD TiVo. But nobody can design to a standard that doesn't exist -- how many other HD CableCARD DVRs do you see on the market?

And if you dump your TiVos for the Comcast DVR, then the cable industry will have accomplished exactly what they wanted -- maintaining a monopoly over your content choices. Maybe that's the best choice for you in the short term, I don't know, but it is a shame to see cable's blatantly anti-competitive anti-consumer tactics succeed.

smyrna403

01-21-2006, 10:11 PM

i want to make a correction to my post i worded it poorly. the quote was

"it should be available this time next year" At the 05' show. this was the cable card unit!

Justin Thyme

01-22-2006, 12:05 AM

Meals would be so much easier if the Cable Cos. could turn vegetarians into meat eaters.The barbabarism of feeding on what the authorities serve up is more akin to a Soylent green, not vegetarianism. Better that they serve balogna, but Tivo's Steak and Lobster is better. Of course later, we introduce more variety of foods- like the vegetables, fruits, and nuts you will find in the Long Tail internet video material. :)

ZeoTiVo

01-22-2006, 12:29 AM

i want to make a correction to my post i worded it poorly. the quote was

"it should be available this time next year" At the 05' show. this was the cable card unit!

so they thought January 06

then TiVo made the Comcast deal and needed resources on that
then the FCC extended the deadline for cable cos to use cable cards by a year

so 2nd half of 2006 and a much better, more functional unit at 2006 CES show is where they are now. Does not seem all that botched up to me

megazone

01-22-2006, 02:59 PM

The unit they showed in '03 was seperate from the HD Direct TiVo, which obviously did see the light of day.You misunderstand. I was there and talked to them in 2004 (when they had the same OTA reference box), as well as 2005 and 2006. What the PR meant is that the reference design could support OTA ATSC or HD Satellite - but to do that you'd make a model with integrated satellite tuners (just like the HD DirecTiVo). It wasn't a claim that *that box* would do it, but that the *reference design* was capable of being turned into a satellite box.

megazone

01-22-2006, 03:03 PM

"it should be available this time next year" At the 05' show. this was the cable card unit!I don't remember them saying 'this time next year', and I was there. At the CES2005 show I heard 'mid-2006' from more than one person, and the most optimistic was the press release which I believe said 'early 2006'. Things change - they landed the Comcast deal which influenced priorities (I believe the Comcast deal is worth more to TiVo than the S3 retail sales) and the CableCARD spec development was stretched out. It looks like they've timed the S3 for multi-stream cards, having given up on CC2.0 since it has been delayed basically indefinitely as the two sides fight it out.

Justin Thyme

01-22-2006, 07:15 PM

My crackpot theory is that they timed S3 to be just in time for BCM7401 production runs. (It was only announced in August 2005). No sense in building to last years latest and greatest (Dish 942 uses the 7038). Why not go with hardware that will have the longest legs and the greater potential of lower production costs over the long haul?

If anything can be counted on in the future, it is more MPAA BS, and in anticipation of this Tivo can point to the 7401's hardware support of SVP.

So there are a lot of nice things about the 7401- but the un nice thing is that it's hard to port HD Tivo code to a platform whose chips weren't being sampled until very recently.