Lost -- ep The 23rd Psalm -- 1/11/06

[Warren]

I tought he said his boat creashed into the reef.

[betts4]

Yes, on his "Race around the world". As he said to Jack.

[modnar]

Due to a weather map in the corner, we couldn't read Walt's response after Michael asked him "Where are you". Could someone please post what Walt (or whoever it is) typed after that?

Thanks!

[whitson77]

Some of you guys are just reading WAY too much into what happens... for example, Eko was kicked out of the plane because they had to take off quickly, IMO. Plain and simple.

Good episode overall, great backstory.

I saw there was somethig in the smoke, but it was hard to see what. I wonder about the significance of it.

If you hit slow mo on your TIVO you could clearly see pictures of things in Eko's life. The priest who got shot, his brother, a woman screaming, and other shots keep flashing extremely quickly.

[jfjellstad]

Due to a weather map in the corner, we couldn't read Walt's response after Michael asked him "Where are you". Could someone please post what Walt (or whoever it is) typed after that?

You need to con

(the picture switched to a closeup of Michael at this point, so we don't know what the rest of the sentence is)

[cherry ghost]

You need to con

(the picture switched to a closeup of Michael at this point, so we don't know what the rest of the sentence is)


You need to com

[miketx]

As another person that has read the book "Prey", it provides a very workable (and interesting) explanation for the black smoke. If the writers are thinking about "Prey", there are alot of interesting plot ideas coming up.

Mike

[thenightfly42]

If Charlie starts using again (which, as a storyline, I believe is inevitable), will Mr. Eko feel any guilt? Partially because it was "his heroin" that came to the island. But I can't figure out why Eko gave Charlie the last statue; was it a kind gesture, figuring he needed to keep it around, or was it cruel?

I think that the answer to this question might help us determine if his becoming a priest was real or just a front.

[thenightfly42]

Did anyone notice they rewrote the history of Sayid and Charlie finding the plane? Sayid did NOT show him the heroin in the original episode. That was rewritten.
Actually, it was Charlie who rewrote the history.
Did anyone check the transcripts?
CHARLIE: Anyone on board?

SAYID: Two men dressed as priests.

CHARLIE: Priests?

SAYID: Drug runners in disguise.

(Sayid picks up a Virgin Mary clay statue.)

SAYID: The plane was loaded with heroin.

(He tosses it to the ground and it shatters.)

(Charlie looks at it.)

(Sayid takes a deep breath. He picks up his backpack.)

SAYID: All right ...

(Charlie glances down at the ground. Sayid walks past him, heading out.)

SAYID: ... now we go.

(Charlie looks back at the broken Virgin Mary figure, the little bags of heroine
spilled out on the ground.)

(Camera pushes in on Charlie as he stares at the drugs.)
Doesn't look like a rewrite to me.

[MickeS]

But I can't figure out why Eko gave Charlie the last statue; was it a kind gesture, figuring he needed to keep it around, or was it cruel?

I think that the answer to this question might help us determine if his becoming a priest was real or just a front.

Uh... he gave it to Charlie because he had broken the one he had, and he figured Charlie had his own reasons?

Really... you guys gotta stop reading so much into everything... :D

[modnar]

You need to con

(the picture switched to a closeup of Michael at this point, so we don't know what the rest of the sentence is)
Tnanks jfjellstad and cherry ghost!

[betts4]

Uh... he gave it to Charlie because he had broken the one he had, and he figured Charlie had his own reasons?

Really... you guys gotta stop reading so much into everything... :D

But thats what makes it sooooo much fun!!!!!!

[mohler7154]

Isnt it kind of foolish not to keep the heroin for jack to use for medical purposes. It would work in a pinch.

[spartanstew]

Finally watched the episode tonight. I hate when I wait so long cause this thread takes so long to read. anyway:

T The second would be Eko's brother, who did not want him to get on the little yellow plane. Either these two individuals had visions about planes being taken down, or received information from Dharma individuals in the outside world.

I don't think this is correct.

Right, same way I saw it. Gold-tooth kicked him off for what could be a variety of reasons, (the one I assumed was that he knew the military would be looking for 3 men, and that 1 priest was clean.) When he was given this 2nd chance, whether gold-tooth intended this or not (I do not think he did), he was able to change his life.

I agree with your last sentence, but not the first (your assumption).

OK, here's what's bothering me with this, there's one guy missing. Yes, other than the priest (Eko's brother) there were 3 men to start with...Eko, and his two flunkies who had come around to the church with him..."gold tooth" and one other guy.

But when the military guys came and started firing at the plane, "other guy" got shot down just before Eko's brother did. Then "gold tooth" got on the plane, pulled on Eko's brother, and kicked Eko off. We never saw "other guy" get on the plane...so were there 3 men on the plane?? Maybe there was another person already on the plane prior to "gold tooth" boarding? I think there must have been, because when Sayid came across the plane in the jungle, he specifically said there were a "couple of priests" in the plane. If "gold tooth" had parachuted out and wasn't in the plane, and "other guy" was shot down and never made it to the plane, who was the other priest's body that Sayid found?

I think there was a pilot on board too. But that is just conjecture :)

My thoughts too.

Hmm - I didn't get that at all. I thought Eko's colleague was doing a "screw you - it's all mine now" kind of thing. Of course, that did leave me wondering why he took the dead brother...

Edited to Add: I'm gonna need to get high-def. In regular def, I didn't see a single image of anything in the smoke/cloud/Prey monster even after I went back and knew they were there!!

1. I think he took the brother, because it was easier and faster. Eko was trying to get his brother on the plane. Gold tooth helped because it was faster than trying to prevent them both from getting on. Once the brother was on board, it was easy for him to kick Eko off. He knew the brother would die (or he would kill him) and one less person on board (Eko) would be one less share of the loot.

2. I have regular definition and saw every image. When it first happened I knew I saw something, so we rewound it and went through the fog in slo-motion. Every face/symbol was crystal clear.


I can't believe people are thinking the gold toothed guy kicked him out the plane to save his life. He kicked him out of the plane to keep his drugs. It's that simple. That's like saying the military guys were shooting at them because they "wanted to be friends."

Sir, you are a voice of reason.
I don't understand why there is an arguement on this.

Agree with both.

If you hit slow mo on your TIVO you could clearly see pictures of things in Eko's life. The priest who got shot, his brother, a woman screaming, and other shots keep flashing extremely quickly.

Exactly.


I know someone else mentioned it, but I still can't believe:

1. Michael doesn't tell anyone else he's talking to his son (regardless of the fact that they're not supposed to use it). Clearly the last sentence that was being typed was something to the effect of "you need to come get me". Doesn't he think it will be easier to go get him if he has other people helping him. Wouldn't you want Eko, Sayid and Sawyer to help you against the others?

2. That he actually thinks he's talking to his son. How old is that kid? 11? How many 11 year olds have perfect sentence structure and spelling? He used the word "they're" correctly with the apostrophe and everything. The text was too polished for a kid.

[TIVOSciolist]

I agree with this. Something in him can't let go totally, and it comforts him to know it is available if and when he REALLY needs it.

Charlie keeping the heroin but not using it is kind of like the soon-to-be married guy hiding his stash of naked pictures of his old girlfriends.

Both very understandable acts under the circumstances.

Ranch goes with everything! :D

I'd be less upset if it had it been Italian dressing.

[Redux]

How many 11 year olds have perfect sentence structure and spelling? He used the word "they're" correctly with the apostrophe and everything. The text was too polished for a kid.

This is very close to a perfect post.

I have spent many hundreds of hours in recent years talking with people about our educational system, working with groups, trying to help shape an understanding that our declining expectations of the system are leading us to the point of dooming our children to a lower-than-third-world existence.

Many of the sub-educated kids I feared for are now adults, crippling their own children now, and the expectations are no longer simply declining, they are nearing absolute zero.

You have said the truth better than I have ever been able.

[Waldorf]

This is very close to a perfect post.

I have spent many hundreds of hours in recent years talking with people about our educational system, working with groups, trying to help shape an understanding that our declining expectations of the system are leading us to the point of dooming our children to a lower-than-third-world existence.

Many of the sub-educated kids I feared for are now adults, crippling their own children now, and the expectations are no longer simply declining, they are nearing absolute zero.

You have said the truth better than I have ever been able.


They should do a 20/20 (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=281666) episode about this. ;)

[getbak]

They should do a 20/20 (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=281666) episode about this. ;)

Well, Walt has lived in Europe most of his life, and recently moved to Australia, so he hasn't been in the American school system. Maybe that explains his good grammar.

;)

[Grumpy Pants]

I agree completely. He was obviously high while talking to Jin and what "renewed faith" would lead him to keep 10 ish of the statues? And even if he wasn't using before, he will be now that he's been rejected by Claire.

Sorry if I am smeeking here but what else is there to do on that island? I say cut it up and smoke it up Charlie!!!!


Let loose :D

[NoThru22]

People always underestimate the intelligence of kids. Walt does not seem like a stupid kid to me. I don't think that his sentence struture is supposed to be a clue that it's not him. I don't think it's him simply because of the coincidence, not because he can't type like that.

[PJO1966]

People always underestimate the intelligence of kids. Walt does not seem like a stupid kid to me. I don't think that his sentence struture is supposed to be a clue that it's not him. I don't think it's him simply because of the coincidence, not because he can't type like that.


My grammar was better when I was Walt's age than it is now.

[Regina]

Ok, I read all the posts (so far) and I can't believe no one has brought this up: who feels cheated that we didn't see what happened in the jungle with Jack and Ana-Lucia? IIRC, the last new ep last year ended with their seeing each other in the jungle. Now they're back and Jin and Sun are introducing themselves, giving Ana a fish, Jack's talking to Michael about Walt, giving Sawyer his meds... :confused:
What happened???
Do you think they'll ever show us? :mad:
And I definitely think "The Others" are baiting Michael, and I think Desmond's partner used the computer to contact the outside world, and The Others found out where he was and came and took him. That's why Desmond was so scared. Well, that and the lack of REM sleep! :p

[betts4]

I am so amazed at what is 'overlooked' and forgotten on the Island. And what is just not talked about amongst themselves.

My mind keeps going back to the cable on the beach that Sayid found and even more recently, the Dharma RX injection that Desmond took. Jack must have found it. Was it just vitamins? Pretty odd. And there was nothing on the film about it either.

What else has been found and then never mentioned again?

[JYoung]

My mind keeps going back to the cable on the beach that Sayid found and even more recently, the Dharma RX injection that Desmond took. Jack must have found it. Was it just vitamins? Pretty odd. And there was nothing on the film about it either.



I assumed that was some type of stimulant as I figure that he wasn't getting a lot of sleep since Kelvin "left".

BTW,
Eko makes the third cold blooded murderer that was on Flight 815 although he might be the only one who's shown remorse.

[getbak]

BTW,
Eko makes the third cold blooded murderer that was on Flight 815 although he might be the only one who's shown remorse.

Isn't he the fourth (at least)?

Sawyer - fake Sawyer in Australia
Kate - step(biological)father
Ana-Lucia - man who shot her and killed her baby
Eko - Old man and others

[JYoung]

me flunk first grade math :o

[NoThru22]

IIRC, the last new ep last year ended with their seeing each other in the jungle.
That was the end of episode 8. The new episode was episode 10. You must've missed episode 9, which was the Ana-Lucia flashback episode. By the end of that, Jack and AnaL are having a drink, like when they first met.

[SonBern]

Do we know how the gold-toothed guy died? This may have been discussed before. Are we to assume he died by hitting the trees after parachuting? Or did something kill him as he was hanging around in the trees while trying to get out of his harness?

[cherry ghost]

That was the end of episode 8. The new episode was episode 10. You must've missed episode 9, which was the Ana-Lucia flashback episode. By the end of that, Jack and AnaL are having a drink, like when they first met.


Episode 8 was the AL flashback. Episode 9 was "What Kate Did".

[MikeMar]

Are there any main characters left that we don't know the full backstory of yet?

You missing a little on Kate right, but who else? Rose and Bernard?

[smickola]

We're missing the end of Jack's backstory, we don't know how his marriage broke up and ended.

And of course we don't know how Locke lost the use of his legs.

[cherry ghost]

Are there any main characters left that we don't know the full backstory of yet?

You missing a little on Kate right, but who else? Rose and Bernard?


No backstory on Libby yet, but I'm not sure if we'll get one.

[NoThru22]

Why wouldn't we get a Libby back story? She's in the main credits now and not even Rose and Bernard could claim that (and I'm sure they'll get an episode one of these days too. The Others didn't come for Bernard, you'll notice.)

[hefe]

Upcoming backstories:

The next 5 episode titles, with the character whose backstory is involved...

18 Jan 06 - The Hunting Party - Jack
25 Jan 06 - Fire + Water - Charlie
8 Feb 06 - Before the End - Locke
15 Feb 06 - One of Them - Sayid
22 Feb 06 - Maternity Leave - Claire

[markz]

They could have just shot a log...

Is that a euphamism?

[tanstaafl]

Due to a weather map in the corner, we couldn't read Walt's response after Michael asked him "Where are you". Could someone please post what Walt (or whoever it is) typed after that?
Here's a screen cap (http://www.losthatch.com/images/screen_captures/S2E10_Michael_Computer.jpg).

As another person that has read the book "Prey", it provides a very workable (and interesting) explanation for the black smoke. If the writers are thinking about "Prey", there are alot of interesting plot ideas coming up.
Doesn't need to be from Prey; it could be a utility fog (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utility_fog).

[bryan314]

Are there any main characters left that we don't know the full backstory of yet?

You missing a little on Kate right, but who else? Rose and Bernard?
I don't think we'll see backstories on Rose and Bernard anytime soon. While I don't think they're 'Others' I do think they were part of the original Dharma project.

[Regina]

That was the end of episode 8. The new episode was episode 10. You must've missed episode 9, which was the Ana-Lucia flashback episode. By the end of that, Jack and AnaL are having a drink, like when they first met.


Ok, so I don't recall correctly! :D
Thanx NoThru22! I'll have to re-watch those eps..I did see them, but a girl forgets sometimes!
I love this forum! :up: :up:

[Magister]

I don't think we'll see backstories on Rose and Bernard anytime soon. While I don't think they're 'Others' I do think they were part of the original Dharma project.

I am going to make some speculation on some of thier story below...

I think Bernard was a VERY BAD PERSON in his past and has recently changed. Maybe he was in a near death experience. Remember that Rose was sure he wasn't dead, maybe since he has already died. Then the 'Others' didn't try to take him, and they were looking for 'good' people. He might even be an unethical scientist or something wacky like that. Maybe in a Dharma related company

[Big_Daddy]

So I don't know if this theory's been floated about - I suspect it has. If so, feel free to smack me like a disobedient puppy.

It appears the smoke monster/security system essentially detects motion. People have talked about who it attacks/doesn't attack based on their emotions, but perhaps it's much simpler than that. Although this explanation does NOT explain why people see things in it (assuming Locke saw something - we know Eko did).

Cases in point:
- During the initial crash, when the slo-mo clips show it hitting the plane's engine - well, the engine is rotating very fast, so it would be a preferential target for the smoke.
- Locke's first encounter: he froze and so survived.
- The pilot: climbing around, thrashing - he got mauled.
- Artz being chased by it on the way to the Black Rock: it chased him as he ran, then it moved off after everyone froze (go back and watch Exodus Part 1)
- Locke's second encounter (after visiting the black rock): he was moving, so got snagged and dragged
- Eko: he froze, so survived.

Just an idea.

[hefe]

- Locke's first encounter: he froze and so survived.
- The pilot: climbing around, thrashing - he got mauled.
- Artz being chased by it on the way to the Black Rock: it chased him as he ran, then it moved off after everyone froze (go back and watch Exodus Part 1)
- Locke's second encounter (after visiting the black rock): he was moving, so got snagged and dragged
- Eko: he froze, so survived.

I was thinking that this thing must sort of feed off the fear of the person. When Locke and Eko survived, neither really seemed to be afraid. The thing looked to be "reading" Eko, looking inside his mind or emotions or something.

Of course, I don't know what any of it could mean. :)

[PJO1966]

I was thinking that this thing must sort of feed off the fear of the person. When Locke and Eko survived, neither really seemed to be afraid. The thing looked to be "reading" Eko, looking inside his mind or emotions or something.

Of course, I don't know what any of it could mean. :)


Exactly. We don't know that Eko saw anything in it. Since we were looking from the creature's perspective I think we were seeing what the creature was seeing in Eko's mind. If we were to believe that Eko saw those images in the creature, we would have seen it from Eko's perspective.

[DevdogAZ]

So I don't know if this theory's been floated about - I suspect it has. If so, feel free to smack me like a disobedient puppy.

It appears the smoke monster/security system essentially detects motion. People have talked about who it attacks/doesn't attack based on their emotions, but perhaps it's much simpler than that. Although this explanation does NOT explain why people see things in it (assuming Locke saw something - we know Eko did).

Cases in point:
- During the initial crash, when the slo-mo clips show it hitting the plane's engine - well, the engine is rotating very fast, so it would be a preferential target for the smoke.
- Locke's first encounter: he froze and so survived.
- The pilot: climbing around, thrashing - he got mauled.
- Artz being chased by it on the way to the Black Rock: it chased him as he ran, then it moved off after everyone froze (go back and watch Exodus Part 1)
- Locke's second encounter (after visiting the black rock): he was moving, so got snagged and dragged
- Eko: he froze, so survived.

Just an idea.
So you're saying this smoke monster has the eyesight of a T-Rex?

;)

[darthrsg]

i think the shows title says it all.....

[Delta13]

So you're saying this smoke monster has the eyesight of a T-Rex? Well, if they can crib from Prey why not Jurassic Park?

And one final note about screen savers and old Apple IIs - I owned one - the only known screensaver you had to buy, and it came in the form of flying toasters. :D

[jkeegan]

I think that there's a very simple reason why the cloud didn't attack Eko.
Fear.

Eko wasn't afraid of it.
Locke wasn't either but the pilot was already afraid.

As to why it attacked Locke at the season end?
Well if it could have been Jack's fear.
Or if it really is a security system, the dynamite set it off.
I hadn't caught up with this (last week's) episode so I'm finishing this thread first before going to next week (won't mention anything from next week).

That's a great idea.. let me extend it a bit..

Maybe the smoke reflects what it's exposed to.. (we see images from Eko's life in it, right? Maybe Locke saw moments from his life as well). As you say, they were curious and at peace, and that's how the smoke acted as well. The pilot, as you say, was screaming and terrified, and maybe the smoke was as well, for the same reason.. Once it had him, he probably wanted to kill it out of panic, and it did the same to him.

Very good idea, and it opens up the possibility that this thing isn't really conscious as much as adopting the behavior/feelings/etc of what's around it.

[jkeegan]

Great episode up until the shark-jumping smoke monster.
See, I think if it had been added now, and we'd never seen anything like it before, then you might be able to argue it was a shark-jumping moment, where they ran out of ideas.. but not only did we see this last season, we saw it quite possibly in the pilot! (see previous posts about the black streak slamming into the engine right before it exploded, and other times we saw a black cloud swoop in).

No way this has jumped the shark.

[jkeegan]

So I don't know if this theory's been floated about - I suspect it has. If so, feel free to smack me like a disobedient puppy.

It appears the smoke monster/security system essentially detects motion. People have talked about who it attacks/doesn't attack based on their emotions, but perhaps it's much simpler than that. Although this explanation does NOT explain why people see things in it (assuming Locke saw something - we know Eko did).

Cases in point:
- During the initial crash, when the slo-mo clips show it hitting the plane's engine - well, the engine is rotating very fast, so it would be a preferential target for the smoke.
- Locke's first encounter: he froze and so survived.
- The pilot: climbing around, thrashing - he got mauled.
- Artz being chased by it on the way to the Black Rock: it chased him as he ran, then it moved off after everyone froze (go back and watch Exodus Part 1)
- Locke's second encounter (after visiting the black rock): he was moving, so got snagged and dragged
- Eko: he froze, so survived.

Just an idea.Wasn't there another one too? I remember Locke and Hurley together.. Locke said "wait..", and after a few seconds Hurley said "we gotta go!".. Locke held him back, and the monster went off the other way..