EchoStar/Dish Doesn't Expect To Settle With TiVo

[davezatz]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060106/tc_nm/media_echostar_tivo_dc_1


EchoStar Communications Corp. chief executive Charles Ergen on Thursday said he expects no settlement in its legal battle with TiVo Inc. and expects the suit to proceed to the courts.

TiVo and EchoStar, the No. 2 U.S. satellite television service, sued each other, each claiming the other infringed patents related to Digital Video Recorders, television set-top boxes that allow users to save programs to a built-in computer hard drive.

Asked if there was a chance of a settlement, Ergen, who was attending a press conference at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas, said, "I really don't think so."

[TiVoPhish]

That's pretty funny stuff. I'm finally dumping Dish (though I've been very happy with their service overall) because their DVR choices are either sucky or EXPENSIVE. I just called them the other day giving them the ability to "save a customer" -- told them Cable was courting me with a free TiVo promotion and HD DVR set-top box for no upfront fees... what could Dish do for me? NOTHING, they wanted $799 for their HD DVR set-top box.

Tomorrow Cablevision comes to install.

[Bondelev]

I just called them the other day giving them the ability to "save a customer" -- told them Cable was courting me with a free TiVo promotion and HD DVR set-top box for no upfront fees... what could Dish do for me? NOTHING, they wanted $799 for their HD DVR set-top box.

That's because they'd lose you anyway. They don't have the boxes in stock to send you. When they become common I bet they'll price match.

[TiVoPhish]

That's because they'd lose you anyway. They don't have the boxes in stock to send you. When they become common I bet they'll price match.

The first time I called (before I was thinking about Cable) they didn't have them in stock but said they had had them recently. The second time I called they seemed all ready to sell me one for $799 (at least that's how she sounded). They could have at least TRIED and said something like "we'll have them in stock soon, and we'd be willing to send you a coupon for XX off"... try they did not.

I KNOW they wouldn't have matched the price. What she said was something like "the $799 is our promotion price... you're getting a special deal already. If you want the 942 you have to buy it".

THey would absolutely not compete with a lease-by-month (or even free-by-month which is what I get with the cable package I got).

[jfh3]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060106/tc_nm/media_echostar_tivo_dc_1

Charlie also claimed that Dish had a PVR before Tivo, which I didn't think was correct.

Not sure why he couldn't have just said "No Comment".

[Justin Thyme]

He's sweating.

Not a great CES for poor Dish. Murdoch came out with several good punches.

[samo]

Charlie also claimed that Dish had a PVR before Tivo, which I didn't think was correct.

Not sure why he couldn't have just said "No Comment".
Dish had DishPlayers in retail stores before TiVo did. Of course original DishPlayer had Microsoft software and TiVo did announce first shipment about 2 weeks before Replay, but I'm not sure on timing of DishPlayer shipping announcement. Dish also had first satellite DVR way before DirecTiVo was introduced. I would think that Charlie has some documentation that DishPlayer was designed before TiVo applied for a patent, but I'm not sure that he can prove that Dish was first to the market.

[cheer]

He's sweating.

Not a great CES for poor Dish. Murdoch came out with several good punches.
There was a news article I spotted saying that a current CES rumor is that EchoStar may be an acquisition target of the new AT&T (formerly SBC).

SBC has been marketing Dish services for a while -- they offer a "bundle" where you can get local service, LD, cellular, DSL, and Dish in one package. Since they now have the old AT&T's LD and IP networks, they may see this as a way to get the video stuff in-house.

Edit: here's the article. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060106/bs_nm/telecoms_echostar_att_dc_2)

[jmoak]

Charlie also claimed that Dish had a PVR before Tivo, which I didn't think was correct.Dish had DishPlayers in retail stores before TiVo did.
All of us who read this forum are familiar with Tivo's "Blue Moon Holiday" (http://archive.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?threadid=52164&highlight=moon) commemorating the first shipment of tivo's going out for consumer sales on March 31, 1999. (search for "tivo "blue moon"" on goggle)

Dishnetwork shipped their first dishplayer that could pause and rewind live tv on or around May 30, 1999 (http://ultimateavmag.com/news/10438/) to be on the store shelves for June sales, but it was not until December 1999 that it was upgraded to be able to record. (http://www.iwantptv.com/dishplayer/dishplayerguide.htm)

(The Internet Way-Back Machine (archive.org) tells us that the DirecTivo was first officially announced on January 6, 2000 (http://web.archive.org/web/20000511034429/www.tivo.com/about/010600a.html), of course)

Knowing that, I'm pretty sure that Charlie cannot really claim that the Dishplayer was first dvr to the market.

Unless you count the Intergrated JVC D-VHS VCR with Built-In Dishnetwork Receiver! (http://web.archive.org/web/19980202225025/http://www.dishnetwork.com/systems/receivers/jvcdvhs.htm)

It WAS digital, right?
;)

[ping]

First-to-market means absolutely nothing. The "time warping" patent was filed in July, 1998. And I'm pretty sure they are only challenging certain Dishnetwork models, not all their DVRs, as it's not a very broad patent.

[jmoak]

First-to-market means absolutely nothing. The "time warping" patent was filed in July, 1998. And I'm pretty sure they are only challenging certain Dishnetwork models, not all their DVRs, as it's not a very broad patent.First-to-market means absolutely nothing, first-to-patent means absolutely everything.

Mr Ergan's "We were doing DVR long before they did" statement in the thread's linked article sparked the first-to-market discussion.

As far as "it's not a very broad patent", there seems to be many who would disagree with you. (google)

I'm certainly not a patent attorney, but here is the complaint and the patent in question. (http://www.txed.uscourts.gov/204cv1/doc3.pdf)

[nhaigh]

First-to-market means absolutely nothing, first-to-patent means absolutely everything.

Mr Ergan's "We were doing DVR long before they did" statement in the thread's linked article sparked the first-to-market discussion.

As far as "it's not a very broad patent", there seems to be many who would disagree with you. (google)

I'm certainly not a patent attorney, but here is the complaint and the patent in question. (http://www.txed.uscourts.gov/204cv1/doc3.pdf)

Reading the text of the patent I would have thought (as a layman) that it's a pretty clear cut infringement.

What I don't understand is why are they only after E*? Surely the same argument applies to all the DVRs.

[SleepyBob]

Reading the text of the patent I would have thought (as a layman) that it's a pretty clear cut infringement.

What I don't understand is why are they only after E*? Surely the same argument applies to all the DVRs.

One at a time, please. A victory here makes the next one that much easier.

[ZeoTiVo]

One at a time, please. A victory here makes the next one that much easier.


hmm, wonder why they started with a satellite provider

[Justin Thyme]

There was a recent interview of the NDS team head who did the software UI DirecTv DVR. His comment was that "some consumers want the DVR to stop where you released the button". Of course it was a fib. No One is capable of such Microsecond response times to detect end of commercial and release FF button. He continued with "but some people want their DVRs to read their minds".

What he was really saying was. "Gee, you know- Tivo has a really cool feature there, it really is like the Tivo is reading your mind. And since polling tells us that is the number one most listed reason consumers give for getting a DVR, it looks like Tivo has a very valuable patent there. Unfortunately, my Boss Mr. Rupert Murdoch thinks we can get along without it, or that we can buffalo Tivo, so we will just have to put the best face on things.... er ahem...." "What I really meant to say was, that it is naive for conusmers to expect that machines can read minds, it stops when you release the FF button. Next question."

[Justin Thyme]

hmm, wonder why they started with a satellite provider1) They have an "IN" with cableco's since they have cablecards- a settlement wouldn't get them any access- which is the gold they are after- not money.
2) You prove the patent value on the first case. So pick it wisely- choose the best instance of flagrant infringement. After winning the first, the others fall into line, or not depending on the percieved strength or weaknesses revealed in the first case.

At the time of the filing, Tivo was allied with DirecTv. In current thicket, it's still a good tack, and allowing the delay of the hearing date because it gives time to drive home the court's stern indication of their incliniation in the matter. Dish is going to lose, and they better start thinking about a settlement. Tivo has always said it prefers to keep things out of the courts and would LOVE to be the only one in town making the DVR for DISH, even if it only worked with DISH. (Which situation by the way might suggest to some cynical observers that I would reverse myself on the need for a "satellite cablecard" standard established by FCC regulation- but actually I will not. I feel that this would provide a fair and level playing field and be in the consumers best interests.)

But the DISH CEO isn't going to negotiate by press release, all of that will be between him and Rogers, and their boards- with a bevy of lawyers and engineers from each company in the peanut gallery. Pretty private affair and it is pretty darn sensitive especiall if the Dish CEO actually is entertaining buyout propositions as rumored concerning AT&T etc. The outcome of the suit (penalties, or some onerous long term partnership with TIvo) could strongly affect a buyers interest in Dish.

So it's all stiff upper lip in public- what he discusses in private inside Echo may be quite the opposite.

[STL]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060106/tc_nm/media_echostar_tivo_dc_1
EchoStar Communications Corp. chief executive Charles Ergen on Thursday said he expects no settlement in its legal battle with TiVo Inc. and expects the suit to proceed to the courts.

TiVo and EchoStar, the No. 2 U.S. satellite television service, sued each other, each claiming the other infringed patents related to Digital Video Recorders, television set-top boxes that allow users to save programs to a built-in computer hard drive.

Asked if there was a chance of a settlement, Ergen, who was attending a press conference at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas, said, "I really don't think so."Let's not leave out the best part. Ergen then went on to say:

"We were doing DVR long before they did. We believe they violated our patent. We didn't violate theirs," he told Reuters.
Long before huh? What a moron! :rolleyes:

[Kanyon71]

There was a recent interview of the NDS team head who did the software UI DirecTv DVR. His comment was that "some consumers want the DVR to stop where you released the button". Of course it was a fib. No One is capable of such Microsecond response times to detect end of commercial and release FF button. He continued with "but some people want their DVRs to read their minds".

What he was really saying was. "Gee, you know- Tivo has a really cool feature there, it really is like the Tivo is reading your mind. And since polling tells us that is the number one most listed reason consumers give for getting a DVR, it looks like Tivo has a very valuable patent there. Unfortunately, my Boss Mr. Rupert Murdoch thinks we can get along without it, or that we can buffalo Tivo, so we will just have to put the best face on things.... er ahem...." "What I really meant to say was, that it is naive for conusmers to expect that machines can read minds, it stops when you release the FF button. Next question."

Ok in one sentence you say Tivo has patent on this technology then you say the rupert thinks it's not worth it. Hmmm sounds like if they did they would get sued for patent infringement. Last time I checked getting sued for things like that is BAD.

[TiVoPhish]

btw, here's Echostar's patent:

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&r=1&l=50&f=G&d=PALL&s1=5774186.WKU.&OS=PN/5774186&RS=PN/5774186

I haven't read both in their entirety, but Echostar's patent was filed: June 4, 1996 (#5,774,186) and TiVos on July 30, 1998 (#6,233,389)

[samo]

All of us who read this forum are familiar with Tivo's "Blue Moon Holiday" (http://archive.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?threadid=52164&highlight=moon) commemorating the first shipment of tivo's going out for consumer sales on March 31, 1999. (search for "tivo "blue moon"" on goggle)

Dishnetwork shipped their first dishplayer that could pause and rewind live tv on or around May 30, 1999 (http://ultimateavmag.com/news/10438/) to be on the store shelves for June sales, but it was not until December 1999 that it was upgraded to be able to record. (http://www.iwantptv.com/dishplayer/dishplayerguide.htm)

(The Internet Way-Back Machine (archive.org) tells us that the DirecTivo was first officially announced on January 6, 2000 (http://web.archive.org/web/20000511034429/www.tivo.com/about/010600a.html), of course)

Knowing that, I'm pretty sure that Charlie cannot really claim that the Dishplayer was first dvr to the market.

Unless you count the Intergrated JVC D-VHS VCR with Built-In Dishnetwork Receiver! (http://web.archive.org/web/19980202225025/http://www.dishnetwork.com/systems/receivers/jvcdvhs.htm)

It WAS digital, right?
;)
This is exactly my recollection of the events. TiVo started taking internet orders sometime in April, but I wanted to buy from retail store to make sure I'm going to like it. I was checking B&M stores for TiVo or Replay but first ones to hit the shelves were DishPlayers. It wasn't till September that first TiVo showed up in my local Sears (and guess who bought it :)). That chain of events tells me that Microsoft and Dish had DVR on drawing boards well before TiVo patent was filed (there is no way that two huge companies can release joint product for completely new device in less than 2 years). Dish may even have contracts with Microsoft to develop DVR dated before TiVo was founded as a company. I have no idea how patent law works in this kind of situation, but this law suit is probably most critical event for TiVo. If they lose it, they would have to close the doors; if they win they could become Gemstar of DVRs - suing and winning or settling with everybody.

[interactiveTV]

Tivo has always said it prefers to keep things out of the courts and would LOVE to be the only one in town making the DVR for DISH, even if it only worked with DISH. (Which situation by the way might suggest to some cynical observers that I would reverse myself on the need for a "satellite cablecard" standard established by FCC regulation- but actually I will not. I feel that this would provide a fair and level playing field and be in the consumers best interests.) Nice. The "cynical" part is pretty funny but Justin, you really can't sell this.

You're saying it's FINE that Tivo would be the ONLY one selling Dish PVRs but DirecTV had better open up their system?

Ummm, please don't confuse CONSUMER'S best interests with TIVO SHAREHOLDERS. You can PRETEND consumers would be better off, but even the most optomistic person would see this for a pretty transparent opinion FOR TIVO not CONSUMERS.

"Fair and level playing field" seems to equal "Tivo has the deal". Otherwise, we better get rid of that waiver.

I'm pretty astounded you would even try and convince anyone -- including yourself -- that a closed system is fine as long as Tivo is the exclusive provider.

So, a quick synopsis of your opinions goes:

Open up the systems (to Tivo) or let Tivo be the exclusive provider. Hmmm, yeah, your really looking at the consumer point of view. Did you ever actually get that job at Tivo you were angling for? You do deserve it.

_ITV

[dylanemcgregor]

Nice. The "cynical" part is pretty funny but Justin, you really can't sell this.

You're saying it's FINE that Tivo would be the ONLY one selling Dish PVRs but DirecTV had better open up their system?

Ummm, please don't confuse CONSUMER'S best interests with TIVO SHAREHOLDERS. You can PRETEND consumers would be better off, but even the most optomistic person would see this for a pretty transparent opinion FOR TIVO not CONSUMERS.

"Fair and level playing field" seems to equal "Tivo has the deal". Otherwise, we better get rid of that waiver.

I'm pretty astounded you would even try and convince anyone -- including yourself -- that a closed system is fine as long as Tivo is the exclusive provider.

So, a quick synopsis of your opinions goes:

Open up the systems (to Tivo) or let Tivo be the exclusive provider. Hmmm, yeah, your really looking at the consumer point of view. Did you ever actually get that job at Tivo you were angling for? You do deserve it.

_ITV


I know I really shouldn't jump in the middle of this, but...

I'm pretty sure that Justin said TiVo would love to be able to build an exclusive DISH PVR.

[interactiveTV]

This is exactly my recollection of the events. TiVo started taking internet orders sometime in April, but I wanted to buy from retail store to make sure I'm going to like it. I was checking B&M stores for TiVo or Replay but first ones to hit the shelves were DishPlayers. It wasn't till September that first TiVo showed up in my local Sears (and guess who bought it :)). That chain of events tells me that Microsoft and Dish had DVR on drawing boards well before TiVo patent was filed (there is no way that two huge companies can release joint product for completely new device in less than 2 years). Dish may even have contracts with Microsoft to develop DVR dated before TiVo was founded as a company. I have no idea how patent law works in this kind of situation, but this law suit is probably most critical event for TiVo.To be brief, first sale will not be relevant here. The "statutory bar"in the US is one year so neither side can claim the product was for public sale that long.

To answer your question boadly, the US uses a first to invent system, not a first to patent system. The only other country I know of that uses a first to invent system is the Phillipines, all others are first to patent. Utility patents are pretty hard to get but even getting the patent issued doesn't give clear ownership.

So, basically, whether Tivo beat Dish or Dish beat Tivo to market by the mere months being discussed won't really matter either way. The statutory bar requires public use or on sale for at least one year.

_ITV

[samo]

Nice. The "cynical" part is pretty funny but Justin, you really can't sell this.

You're saying it's FINE that Tivo would be the ONLY one selling Dish PVRs but DirecTV had better open up their system?

Ummm, please don't confuse CONSUMER'S best interests with TIVO SHAREHOLDERS. You can PRETEND consumers would be better off, but even the most optomistic person would see this for a pretty transparent opinion FOR TIVO not CONSUMERS.

"Fair and level playing field" seems to equal "Tivo has the deal". Otherwise, we better get rid of that waiver.

I'm pretty astounded you would even try and convince anyone -- including yourself -- that a closed system is fine as long as Tivo is the exclusive provider.

So, a quick synopsis of your opinions goes:

Open up the systems (to Tivo) or let Tivo be the exclusive provider. Hmmm, yeah, your really looking at the consumer point of view. Did you ever actually get that job at Tivo you were angling for? You do deserve it.

_ITV
ITV, give Justin a break. He didn't say that "fair and leveled field" was to give TiVo exclusive to make Dish receiver - he said that opening the satellite will. Actually, just a month ago I had to switch from Dish to Direct due to the international channel I need having move to Direct. I'll tell you, I wished that open standard was in place already. I had to buy 3 new DVRs (actually 2, one was free) and my Dish DVRs are collecting dust now.

[interactiveTV]

ITV, give Justin a break. He didn't say that "fair and leveled field" was to give TiVo exclusive to make Dish receiver - he said that opening the satellite will. Actually, just a month ago I had to switch from Dish to Direct due to the international channel I need having move to Direct. I'll tell you, I wished that open standard was in place already. I had to buy 3 new DVRs (actually 2, one was free) and my Dish DVRs are collecting dust now. If I misread, I will openly and freely apologize. I read Justin's "this" as referring to the situation of Tivo exclusivity not his position of opening DBS. The dangling modifier and the "cynical observer" comment (which was directed and unneeded but Justin posts 100 times per day and obviously some things fall through the cracks) may have mislead me.

Samo, I'm not AGAINST opening up DBS. I just don't believe it should be done because DirecTV ended its contract with Tivo; should be done until cable has ironed out some of the issues.

There is more competition (two DBS companies), retail SALES (versus lease) and more choice in DBS than in cable.

I see Justin calling for opening the system as a benefit to TIVO and Tivo shareholders. He hasn't discussed the technology or the costs -- which will ultimately be carried by the consumer, especially at a time when a switchover to MPEG4 and more HD capacity is ALREADY underway.

I'm not against opening DBS. I'm against a call to action merely to benefit Tivo. Until we see cable get to where it should be, I think consumers would end up paying more for DBS STBs.

As for the Dish/Tivo patent dispute, I also don't see it as dire as you. If Tivo loses, it can still survive. Justin may enjoy putting companies like Microsoft, Apple, and the like in the same sentance as Tivo but that will never be so regardless of his wishful thinking. Microsoft earns more interest on its cash a year than Tivo is worth. It's a nice dream and maybe he repeated use of that type of thing makes him feel better about Tivo's position in the market but any of those companies could BUY Tivo without blinking and still have money left over to get a few million pizzas too. I've come to the opinion that Tivo will ultimately be bought.

_ITV

[GBL]

btw, here's Echostar's patent:

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&r=1&l=50&f=G&d=PALL&s1=5774186.WKU.&OS=PN/5774186&RS=PN/5774186

I haven't read both in their entirety, but Echostar's patent was filed: June 4, 1996 (#5,774,186) and TiVos on July 30, 1998 (#6,233,389)


This patent is actually an IBM patent, not Echostar's.


United States Patent 5,774,186
Brodsky , et al. June 30, 1998
Interruption tolerant video program viewing

Abstract

Allows a video broadcast viewer to pause at anytime while viewing a program, and upon returning to be able to view the intervening segment. The video received during the pause period is stored and available for recall upon user command. The storage medium is circular in so much that the memory, upon becoming filled to capacity continues to write incoming information data over the previously stored data. The storage circuits employs a sequential access storage device and/or a direct access storage device. The storage circuit has a high speed memory input buffer and a high speed memory output buffer to account for the relatively long READ and WRITE access times of the storage device employed. At the end of the pause period, the user can view the stored video. The user has a choice between catching up to the regular broadcast or watching the remaining program video in a delay mode. The stored video may be viewed intermittently or continuously in regular, slow or fast motion, under user direct or remote VCR-type of video function control.
Inventors: Brodsky; Marc Herbert (Washington, DC); Millman; Steven Edward (Spring Valley, NY); Worthington; Thomas Kimber (Kula, HI)
Assignee: International Business Machines Corporation (Armonk, NY)
Appl. No.: 659125
Filed: June 4, 1996

[TiVoPhish]

Of course I can't find it now, but it was pointed out in some new article that IBM is now the assignee, but Echostar was the original patent holder... dunno if it's true or not... and I know NOTHING about Patent law or Assignees or any such thing.

[Justin Thyme]

ITV- you claim that opening DBS will benefit just Tivo and that only Tivo is interested in it.

Has cablecard's opening of Cable networks benefitted just Tivo and is only Tivo interested in it?

An absurd position.

Samo- CH1 and RTR definately are a lot nicer. Sure would be nice to have one box that would record DirecTv, Dish, XM, Sirius and the local cableCo.

Make the bastards compete, without them trying to get you to marry them and them only with expensive purchases and other vendor Lock-ins.

[interactiveTV]

ITV- you claim that opening DBS will benefit just Tivo and that only Tivo is interested in it. I make no such claim. Ever.

I claim that your soapboxing to open DBS only occured after DirecTV dumped Tivo and often appears to champion it for Tivo's benefit rather than for consumer's.

Has cablecard's opening of Cable networks benefitted just Tivo and is only Tivo interested in it? Considering Tivo is months away from shipping a CC product, I don't see how Tivo has benefited from CC at all. Considering Tivo's track record on on-time product delivery, that the Comcast developent *should* (from Tivo corporate POV) take priority, I'm hopeful but not overly optomistic that Tivo S3 will be readily available for 2006 holiday sales.

An absurd position. It is. Except it isn't mine nor can you find a place where I stated as such. It's called a straw man arguement, Justin.

I keep asking for SOME discussion on the costs, complexities, and merits of forcing DBS open *right now* and I keep getting the same FCC quotes from you on the waiver. I'm well aware how Tivo -- now effectively shut-out of DBS -- would benefit. DirecTV has been a huge help to Tivo corporate in terms of subscribers and growth and fat gross margins. Losing DirecTV -- even the most rosy eyed Tivo shareholder could agree -- is not a positive. Obviously, access back into that market would be helpful to Tivo. I'm just UNSURE of the consumer benefit RIGHT NOW. I see cable well behind DBS. When cable has retail availability, when CC works and the MSOs support it adequately and when a variety of product is on the shelves, I do think the FCC should take a long, hard look at DBS.

To end the waiver, without regard to the current technological upgrade in place, without regard to lessons learned from CC, without regard to how it would effect consumer pricing, is silly. Ignoring that merely because Tivo lost a market seems to be a call to arms that benefits Tivo without regard for consumers.

A discussion of opening DBS should include those things. It hasn't. Not from you. Your arguement has constantly focused on why poor, little Tivo deserves access to DBS. Personally, I don't think it's this forum's charter to help Tivo or constantly (in as many threads as possible, it seems) demand FCC action that, as of yet, cannot show consumer benefit.

I'm willing to be convinced. I just haven't seen you make a convincing CONSUMER arguement. You've made Tivo's arguement very well. I'm not a Tivo shareholder. I could care less.

Would Samsung and Sony and others benefit from open DBS? Sure. Would consumers benefit from such a forced change right now? I'm not sure. I don't have the costs but I do see a switch to MPEG4 and increased HD capacity, I do see hiccups with CC, especially with the CE companies, and I do see a current state of the industry that still offers lower prices, ability to purchase, and more choice than cable.

Also, unlike you, I don't see vendor lock-ins as evil. Businesses SHOULD be able to lock consumers into their product, with the usual legal caveats. Should Apple be forced to open its Fairplay system? It's product IS better. Just because Microsoft and Sont can't make a compelling product, should Apple be forced to open their system? Should my BMW be forced to allow telematics from anyone I choose?

The generic call to open a closed system merely because it's closed is something I don't understand. That hardware and services are closely tied is a by product of our modern technology and business models. Government intervention for its own sake doesn't make sense to me. Apple's iPod is an excellent product and DESERVES its market share. Apple earned it. That the iTunes store ONLY works with the iPod is fine with me. If consumers find it too restrictive, they can purchase something else. CHOICE exists and, for the most part, markets can take care of themselves. I'm not saying this applies to DBS only that calling for no vendor lock-ins will only stifle competition and innovation. Yes, there are times when situations exist when bundling is used as anti-competitive, especially in monopoly situations (Microsoft/IE browser). Exceptions, not the rule.

Make me a compelling consumer arguement for opening DBS right now. You've made the Tivo shareholder arguement quite well. I see risks in opening it right now.

_ITV

[Justin Thyme]

I make no such claim. Ever.
Samo, I'm not AGAINST opening up DBS. I
Well good. Because open-DBS-access benefits consumers, results in greater competition between third party companies- more vigorous innovations between anyone making advanced technology video devices- Apple, Microsoft, Cisco, Tivo- whoever. Cablecard brings this about. So would an open DBS standard.

The multicarrier access box I described to Samo- that could be a Microsoft, Apple, Intel, Cisco, platform as much as a Tivo platform. So remind us all- how was I making a Tivo only argument? How are the benefits for consumers in allowing to make choices between the different vendors with such a multi mode box not better that the current system of Vendor Lock in strategies?

That's my point.

You want to make a point about ME and my motivations. Go right ahead. I am interested in ideas, not soap operas.