TiVo announces Series 3 HD TiVo, due this year. [Text View]

jcblack

01-05-2006, 08:54 PM

Sorry if I missed the thread on this:
http://www.engadget.com/2006/01/05/tivo-announces-series-3-hd-tivo-due-this-year/

TiVo just announced their TiVo Series 3 HD Digital Media Recorder, with dual HD recording and 300 hours of recording space. The device supports dual CableCARDs, of the 2.0 or 1.0 a variety, so either way you can get dual signals, with one 2.0 card or two 1.0 cards. Of course you can still rock the analog cable, but you'll have more fun with digital cable or ATSC over the air. You can even go for some straight up NTSC over the air and relive your snow-filled childhood memories. They're also launching an external SATA drive to hold all this HD video you're going to be PVRing now through oh-so-many sources. The new box looks good, the new remote is backlit, those snazz download capabilities are still in force, and the good times should roll this year, so all is well in TiVo fandom.

markp99

01-05-2006, 09:00 PM

TiVoPhish has posted several images taken by megazone at CES

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3648556&&#post3648556

newsposter

01-05-2006, 09:01 PM

Look sharp. Wish DTV would have stuck with it.

HiDefGator

01-05-2006, 09:54 PM

What does it cost to rent a cable card? Or do you have to buy them?

Steve_Martin

01-05-2006, 09:59 PM

I'm currently renting a 1.0 CableCard for under $2 a month. I don't believe they can be purchased.

BigJimOutlaw

01-06-2006, 06:07 AM

CableCARDs are cheaper than renting a cable box. My cable co leases them for $3/mo.

They give me the option to buy, but I'd rather lease it just in case they update them (version 2).

Oknarf

01-06-2006, 07:11 AM

Excellent.

:up:

mav63

01-06-2006, 07:37 AM

When you say the cable card costs $3/mo, is that on top of basic cable or can you just rent the cablecard and nothing else? Any Comcast customers, what does cablecard and basic cost you?

WizarDru

01-06-2006, 07:37 AM

CableCARDs are cheaper than renting a cable box. My cable co leases them for $3/mo.

They give me the option to buy, but I'd rather lease it just in case they update them (version 2).

It depends on your cable provider: Comcast charges $15 for a cable-card...the exact same amount as having a box. Mind you, they try their damndest to hide the fact that they even support cable-cards, so that's no suprise.

D_Doherty

01-06-2006, 07:57 AM

Well it looks like the hard part (technically) is done.

Nice, now all Tivo needs to do to win me over from D* is:

1. Release a similar box with everything except the HD tuners to replace my SD Directivos
2. Come up with a pricing model that works for me. I have 2 HD and 5 SD DirecTivos. My cost is $4.99. With Tivo it would be around $55 I think.

emeril2k1

01-06-2006, 08:17 AM

It depends on your cable provider: Comcast charges $15 for a cable-card...the exact same amount as having a box. Mind you, they try their damndest to hide the fact that they even support cable-cards, so that's no suprise.

What? Are you SURE about that. I've heard other people say Comcast charges nothing for CC. The average cost seems to be about $1.50.

I have Adelphia, soon to be Time Warner.

Steve_Martin

01-06-2006, 08:35 AM

When you say the cable card costs $3/mo, is that on top of basic cable or can you just rent the cablecard and nothing else? Any Comcast customers, what does cablecard and basic cost you?

The rental cost is in addition to the charges for whatever level of cable services you are paying for. The current version of CableCards (1.0) do almost all of what set top boxes do except you can't order pay per view or video on demand services, and you don't get the on-screen cable guide that normally is available with a set top box.

sp1dey

01-06-2006, 08:53 AM

Never would I have imagined I'd be sitting here considering jumping back to Comcast... but D has until this thing is release to try and keep me. I'm even willing to absorb a cancellation fee.

swizzlest

01-06-2006, 08:55 AM

Never would I have imagined I'd be sitting here considering jumping back to Comcast... but D has until this thing is release to try and keep me. I'm even willing to absorb a cancellation fee.

I've got to agree with this.

That HR20 better show so serious moxie.

ebonovic

01-06-2006, 08:59 AM

The HR20 information: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=280430

Note... To continue with current patterns..
The HR20 should be discussed on www.dbstalk.com

tivolocity

01-06-2006, 09:17 AM

Has anyone heard pricing for the series 3?

sp1dey

01-06-2006, 09:34 AM

Has anyone heard pricing for the series 3?

Honestly, to have a dual tuner HD tivo with FULL TIVO FUNCTIONALITY, i'd be willing to pay a premium. Just speculation, but I'd bank between $600-1,000.

ebonovic

01-06-2006, 10:02 AM

At least the "cablecards" are "supposed" to be free....

As much as I love my HR10-250 for what it can do...
I don't know if I could drop another $1k on a device.

Nahh... who am I kidding.

btwyx

01-06-2006, 10:06 AM

Never would I have imagined I'd be sitting here considering jumping back to Comcast... but D has until this thing is release to try and keep me. I'm even willing to absorb a cancellation fee.My thoughts precisely. I don't even need to absorb a cancellation fee.

The thought of Comcast is distinctly unpallatable, but I'm not seeing an option.

tivolocity

01-06-2006, 10:19 AM

hiker

01-06-2006, 10:23 AM

Who said cable cards are supposed to be free?

In my area, Comcast charges the same as another STB ($6.95/mo. each) for cable cards. In addiiton, you have to pay a one-time installation charge ($15.00, I think).

tivolocity

01-06-2006, 10:27 AM

tivolocity

01-06-2006, 10:32 AM

hiker

01-06-2006, 10:34 AM

OK, I guess, technically speaking, the addition $6.95/mo. charge is an "additional outlet charge for programming". Still a ripoff!

tivolocity

01-06-2006, 10:35 AM

OK, I guess, technically speaking, the addition $6.95/mo. charge is an "additional outlet charge for programming". Still a ripoff!

It's Comcastic!!!

Shawn95GT

01-06-2006, 10:37 AM

HogarthNH

01-06-2006, 10:59 AM

I'm upset that they don't have a component / DVI / HDMI Input on the S3 tivo. Do they not realize that there is much more HD content out there beyond what the cable co's offer?

As stated here many times, it would cost several thousand dollars to build a TiVo which could encode HD.

This box simply saves the cable QAM stream just like the HR10-250 saves the satellite MPEG-2 stream.

Don't be upset. You wouldn't even remotely consider buying it if it cost $3,000.

H

sp1dey

01-06-2006, 11:09 AM

Having ever owned only one Tivo... the HR10-250, D has a shot at keeping me. I'm not a huge fan of Comcast but it's nice to know if D fails me I now have a fall back plan. That HR20 better be sweet, and I better see some new National HD channels or I will be making amends with Comcast real soon.

beaudot

01-06-2006, 11:13 AM

I was as big a Tivo fan as anyone at one point, but I can't imagine paying much money for one of these when I can rent basically the same thing from Comcast for a fraction of the cost. Although it doesn't have quite the same feel as a Tivo, the 6412 does pretty much everything useful that Tivo does. Maybe a year ago, I could have been convinced, but we are used to the 6412 now, and it works fine for us. Also, (no fault to Tivo) there is no cable card 2 out yet. It is hard to justify spending whatever this will cost to lose functionality(on-demand) that we currently have.

Also, we now have 3 hdtv sets. So the choice is spending $1500-$3000+ whatever they charge per month + cable card costs. Or spend the $30/month that Comcast currently rents 3 dvr's for. I'm guessing that the Tivo fee + 3 cable card fees will come pretty close to $30 too. I can't justify spending a couple grand for something with a better interface, but less features compared to what I get for free.

Shawn95GT

01-06-2006, 11:24 AM

<-- Accepting HD defeat.

I don't think cost is all that's involved. I think it's a DRM issue that has the MPAA / FCC scared stiff.

This S3 box seems to be a VERY niche market deal.

For what it'll cost you for the cable card you can rent the HD DVR from the Cable co. Yeah it won't be Tivo, but it didn't cost you a dime either.

The monthly Tivo Fee + the cable card fee will likely cost more than some pay for cable TV services. We all know the box itself isn't going to be a 'free after rebate' deal like the S2 has been either.

The only way this seems justifiable is if you rent / lease the S3 Tivo from your Cable co. in place of their STB.

I don't quite have a compelling reason to upgrade from my S2 + external ATSC tuner solution yet.

Shawn

Royster

01-06-2006, 11:34 AM

From what I've read, this T3 seems to have borrowed some ideas from the (now discontinued) Sony HDD500. It shows the name of the current program ont he fron of the unit. While it has six tuners, only two can be used at once. (The Sony has three, use one at a time).

All the extra TiVo goodness should make this a nice box, but I'm sad about the release date. I gave up and bought a Sony last summer bacause I was tired of waiting for TiVo to release this.

jcricket

01-06-2006, 11:36 AM

I think Shawn hits the nail on the head. The differences between this Series 3 Tivo and the new dual-tuner DVRs that cable + satellite providers are renting to their customers are small enough (on a basic level) that it's hard to justify spending $500-1000 per box to get the "extra features" (HMO, MRV, etc.).

If DirecTV can even get those basic features working (esp. MRV) on the HR20 there's almost no chance of me spending $500 per box to outfit 2 or 3 rooms with Tivos, despite how much I like the Tivo interface.

newsposter

01-06-2006, 11:38 AM

OK, I guess, technically speaking, the addition $6.95/mo. charge is an "additional outlet charge for programming". Still a ripoff!

I thought additional outlet charges were banned by the FCC? My local company's internet rate card says zero for additional outlets

jdk

01-06-2006, 12:44 PM

<-- Accepting HD defeat.

I don't think cost is all that's involved. I think it's a DRM issue that has the MPAA / FCC scared stiff.

You're partially correct. You have to consider there's several types HD signals you plug into your TV/Monitor:

Analog HD signal (component video): The "analog hole" is what allows your current standlone tivo to record Standard Definition HBO, Showtime and other pay channels from your cable provider.

So why can't you use the "HD Analog Hole"? There simply isn't enough cheap silicon horsepower out there yet to re-encode an analog HD signal back in a form that can be recorded and fit onto a hard drive. You might be able to do it for $3-8000 today. Maybe in 2-3 years Moore's law will catch up to allow this, if we're lucky - but then you have to consdier the quality loss of converting a digital signal to analog and then back to digital for storage.

Also note that Hollywood is aware of this coming tecnology catch-up, and has proposed restricting, or making illegal simple analog outputs of HD signals. Fortunately, so far these attempts have failed due to cooler heads and the fact that the "genie is already out of the bottle" with the millions of HDTV decoders already out there that output analog signals.

Digital HD signal (HDMI/DVI): Two issues: 1. HDMI/DVI is uncompressed digital data, so the issue above still comes into play: there isn't enough horsepower out there to squeeze the signal down to fit on a hard drive. 2. These are heavily DRMed, and always will be, as they were created specifically to NOT allow people to intercept and record them.

Digital HD singal- firewire: here's a compressed signal, actually ready to be recorded. In fact, your cable company is required by the FCC to give you a firewire-enabled box if you request it. There's DRM on this interface too, so some content may or may not be available for recording - so far the implementation of the DRM has been inconsistent. But due to a variety of reasons, firewire hasn't caught on, so its mainly a hobbyists toy, with limited mainstream manufacturer support.

Digital HD signal - OTA: a compressed signal with no DRM. Many have been waiting for a OTA HD Tivo, and this Series 3 is the kitchen-sink HD Tivo that finally contains it. But what percentage of the US (that owns Tivos) only gets their programming from an antenna?

So, you can't fault Tivo for missing much with this Series 3. Its doing exactly what's technologically feasable today. _Maybe_ they could have included a firewire input, but with its limited support, and DRMed interface, it would have been difficult for the majority of people to get working, and a nightmare for Tivo to support.

oldskoolboarder

01-06-2006, 12:54 PM

I would definitely switch to Comcast for a Series 3. I can get most channels via OTA but to have updated s/w to support HMO on a NEW Tivo box would be great. If this is a box that is supported by Tivo and ISN'T powered by the same slow PPC CPU as the HR10, then it's a go.

steeliebob

01-06-2006, 01:13 PM

First-time post ... been lurking for a few months reading with lots of anticiption for a new box.

For me, the box is useless.

I live in the sticks ... sorry, contrary to some rumors, fish don't swim in the streets of downtown Seattle. I have to make my living outside of Seattle proper.

I cannot get cable.

I cannot get OTA of any form.

That leaves me with Satellite options. I actually have both a D* and E* account, but use the E* here at home ... the D* is for a vacation use where we can't pick up E*.

I've held off on switching home over to D* hoping the new box would allow me to use me E* unit to record HD ... as we do currently with our 810H Series 2.

The new E* switch to MPEG-4 is gonna be a mess ... just to get networks in HD, I'll have to get a new box there.

I love the features of the TiVo and would love to stay with them. Wish I knew for sure that this is gonna be it for some time to know whether I'll go with a Dish PVR box to have any chance of recording HD.

This big announcement that is great for many ... leaves some of us totally out of the picture.

Don't understand why it would have been such a big issue to have a component / HDMI input and IR lblaster to control the E* *811???

Bring on the Series 4, or even a 3.5? :)

Seriously sad outside of Seattle :(

HogarthNH

01-06-2006, 01:58 PM

Don't understand why it would have been such a big issue to have a component / HDMI input and IR lblaster to control the E* *811???

Realtime encoding of HD video at decent bitrates is cost prohibitive, and will remain so until close to the end of the decade. (Assuming Moore's Law) The hardware that most use to do so costs upwards of five figures.

You're wouldn't buy a $15,000 TiVo, would you?

steeliebob

01-06-2006, 02:06 PM

Okay, a little looking around after my rant has enlightened me "a little" :)

Tried to enter URL for Coffee House discussion titled "Tivo Dumps the Dish", but I'm too new :eek:

Seems it's a cost issue with the technology to have a component or HDMI input.

Perhaps someone can help with my limited tech knowledge and try to explain to me the difference in how a E* box can decode the signal and then record in HD at a "reasonable price" while the abilty to do so in a standalone is basically prohibitive??

I know the sat companies & TiVo are warring and certainly not out to do D* & E* any favors ... I just want MY TIVO :)

I'd be grateful for any insight / explanation that an average Joe might be able to understand :)

steeliebob

01-06-2006, 02:07 PM

Thanks Hogarth ... if I had lots of $$$ to burn, I probably would, but I don't, and wouldn't :)

HogarthNH

01-06-2006, 02:30 PM

Perhaps someone can help with my limited tech knowledge and try to explain to me the difference in how a E* box can decode the signal and then record in HD at a "reasonable price" while the abilty to do so in a standalone is basically prohibitive??

Ah. None of the Sat companies (E* or D*) HD DVR, Cable DVRs or the Series 3 TiVo record after decoding a signal.

They record the signal. (Satellite, QAM, ATSC, what have you)
Then just play it back.

You can't get the raw signal through HDMI or component. You get video. Video would need to be reencoded.

Some cable boxes output full raw digital data through FireWire, but this is what the MPAA and NAB are trying to shut down, as they can't enforce copy protection through these means. (Without things like the "broadcast flag")

H

Mr. Laser Beam

01-06-2006, 02:38 PM

Two questions about this thing:

1) It's nice that it has an Ethernet port, but what about wireless? If I want to connect it to my wireless network, how would I do that?

2) Will the Series 3's HDMI output work with HDMI-switching receivers? (My Motorola cable box has HDMI output, but it insists on being connected directly to the TV - it won't work with any HDMI-switching receiver.)

ebonovic

01-06-2006, 03:04 PM

For #1... Probably need a USB device (just like the XBOX360 does it)
For #2... We probably won't know that until it hits the hands of the first person to use it who has a switcher.

Dennis Wilkinson

01-06-2006, 03:14 PM

1) It's nice that it has an Ethernet port, but what about wireless? If I want to connect it to my wireless network, how would I do that?

2) Will the Series 3's HDMI output work with HDMI-switching receivers? (My Motorola cable box has HDMI output, but it insists on being connected directly to the TV - it won't work with any HDMI-switching receiver.)

1) Same as today - plug in a USB adapter.

2) IIRC, that's an acknowledged bug in the Moto box. In theory, any HDMI switcher that dealt appropriately with the HDCP handshaking should behave, but I've read about lots of real-world problems with current HDCP implementations, so it's not likely we'd know until the thing ships.

vstone

01-06-2006, 03:17 PM

...
It's nice that it has an Ethernet port, but what about wireless? If I want to connect it to my wireless network, how would I do that?
...Buy a wireless bridge (you'll need a PC to set it up). One of those wireless adapters for game machines might also work, but I have no experience with setting those up.

boblip11

01-06-2006, 03:19 PM

From the Comcast web site.

What is the cost for CableCARD service?

There is no additional charge for CableCARD service above what you currently pay for Digital Cable service (NOTE: additional outlet charges for programming may apply).

I have two cablecard tv's on comcast here in Connecticut. I do not pay any outlet charges or cablecard charges. I did have to pay the $15 install charge.

ebonovic

01-06-2006, 03:22 PM

Only $15? Did a tech come out to slide the card in to your system?
That is still a crock of $15 that you had to spend.

TyroneShoes

01-06-2006, 04:59 PM

...Of course you can still rock the analog cable, but you'll have more fun with digital cable or ATSC over the air. You can even go for some straight up NTSC over the air...
OK, now I'm confused, or is it the engadget guy whose confused? I was under the impression that the new HD Tivo would be CC only. This sounds like it is CC, 8VSB, and NTSC capable. That would be a great all-purpose PVR, but also sounds a little too good to be true. And the price?

emeril2k1

01-06-2006, 07:44 PM

Buy a wireless bridge (you'll need a PC to set it up). One of those wireless adapters for game machines might also work, but I have no experience with setting those up.

The game adapters work great, and are easier to setup than a wireless bridge.

They cost more though. :(

Mr. Laser Beam

01-06-2006, 09:13 PM

The game adapters work great, and are easier to setup than a wireless bridge.

They cost more though. :(

What about the TiVo-branded USB adapter they sell? Is it any good? Or cheaper? Or both? :)

Dan Collins

01-06-2006, 09:22 PM

OK, now I'm confused, or is it the engadget guy whose confused? I was under the impression that the new HD Tivo would be CC only. This sounds like it is CC, 8VSB, and NTSC capable. That would be a great all-purpose PVR, but also sounds a little too good to be true. And the price?That is correct - the S3 supports dual CC streams, two 8VSB/ATSC OTA streams, and has dual cable-ready analog tuners built-in.

As for why get this instead of a "cable company DVR"....

1) MRV (which I'm told will work with S2 TiVos - for SD content)
2) The TiVo software
3) The ability to keep your recordings when you change programming providers or move

danielhart

01-07-2006, 02:23 AM

jdk

01-07-2006, 02:41 AM

That is correct - the S3 supports dual CC streams, two 8VSB/ATSC OTA streams, and has dual cable-ready analog tuners built-in.

All that technology crammed in there makes me wonder what the final street price will be.

Tivo also doesn't have an $100/month/subscriber revenue stream to help subsidize their costs.

So I wonder how many people ( beyond the big Tivo fans that frequent these boards) will be willing to spend upper three-figures (maybe 4 figures) for the box, then $12.95 (assuming the Tivo S3 subscription price doesn't go up) and then pay their cable company for a subscription and cablecard rental (Comcast charges $6.95 per cablecard in my area).

Contrast that to simply paying a $10/month fee for a Comcast DVR...

Speaking of which, have we heard anything about the Comcast Tivo? If my pricing predictions are true, Comcast could either price thier Tivo offering in a way that would kill any S3 sales in their service areas... or Comcast could charge $50/month for Tivo service and still be price competetive with an S3.

btwyx

01-07-2006, 02:52 AM

All that technology crammed in there makes me wonder what the final street price will be.There have been several quotes which are in the $500-$800 range.

WeBoat

01-07-2006, 07:25 AM

I'm upset that they don't have a component / DVI / HDMI Input on the S3 tivo. Do they not realize that there is much more HD content out there beyond what the cable co's offer?

At least they got an ATSC tuner on-board.

I'm disappointed... and won't be buying one of these.

That would be very hard and expensensive. Those formats are not pre compressed and would required a mpeg2/4 encoder in realtime. Not cheap!

skofarrell

01-07-2006, 11:01 AM

DirecTV abandoning Tivo and this annoucement makes the jump to comcast a no brainer for me.

A couple of positives:

First is since the 5 lnb dish's takes away diplexers, that means running 3 more pieces of coax to my 3 tvs to keep OTA goes away. Nice to not have to worry about that.

Second is it will be nice to not have to deal with occasional rain fade in the summer.

Hopefully the S3 will be upgradable. Terabyte Tivos are great. :)

Oknarf

01-07-2006, 11:40 AM

A news update .... Tivo clarifies CES Series 3 rumor.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=280700

Mr. Laser Beam

01-07-2006, 11:58 AM

A news update .... Tivo clarifies CES Series 3 rumor.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=280700

:(

Got my hopes up...

jdk

01-07-2006, 02:30 PM

In general I was wondering why people were already pulling out the credit cards for something "announced" as coming out "later in the year".

We all know that you add 6-9+ months to any annouced dates at CES.
Also, as I posted above - the economics of this box didn't quite add up for me too.

So now it looks like this isn't even an official annoucement. If anything comes out, we'll be lucky to see it by 2007. But this looks like what we saw three years ago at CES with the "reference OTA HD Tivo" design... where can I pick one of those up?

My general stance: make no purchasing or service provider decisions based upon what may or may not be promised at CES. The best thing is to wait it out until something is deployed and confirmed - or if you must choose something new, treat every promised thing very skeptically and then decide.

beejpowers

01-08-2006, 09:08 PM

I just got back from CES.
I sttod there and watched the unit play as I talked with one of the reps...
I am pretty sure he was actually developing the project, not just a Tivo shill...
The unit had several (16+... I know there were 2 pages) of shows recorded on it.
The unit worked. It wasn't slapped together vaporware. It had the software working as far as I could tell.
What I got from the guy besides "We aren't ready to talk about that" was the biggest problem was implementing the content protection as it comes from the cable companies. He made no mention of OTA problems and when I asked if they would just release with OTA working and send a patch for CC, I got the "We aren't ready to talk about that"
But it looked awesome and appeared to work...
Also the add-on drive was connected and giving 70+ hours recording time... I think it was a 320GB drive.

Best news about it... He said there should definitely be a way for the front OLED screen to display... the time. YES! A clock on the front... now I can get rid of my VCR/dust magnet.

newsposter

01-09-2006, 06:49 AM

Best news about it... He said there should definitely be a way for the front OLED screen to display... the time. YES! A clock on the front... now I can get rid of my VCR/dust magnet.

You kept a vcr for the time? I'm sure you are joking right? there's little things called clocks that can help you with that if none of your other equipment has it ;)

thepackfan

01-09-2006, 08:58 AM

And there is also the sel-play-sel-9-sel to display the clock on your set.

newsposter

01-09-2006, 09:16 AM

cool dish feature...maybe tivo will do this:

Also included in the ViP series is the ViP622(TM) DVR, the world's first MPEG4 multi-room high definition and digital video recorder satellite TV receiver with the ability to view independent programs -- one in high definition and one in standard definition programming -- on two televisions at once. No other pay-TV company offers this innovative combination. It features a massive hard drive with a recording capacity of up to 25 hours of high-definition and up to 180 hours of standard-definition content.

vstone

01-09-2006, 09:33 AM

Jeez I wish my local cableco (Adelphia) gets their act together soon when it comes to HD content. Currently they only offer ABC, CBS, NBC, PBS, ESPN, HBO, and Showtime. I would love to give Rupert the big sendoff, but I would really miss HDNet, HDNetMovies, and the recently impressive UHD.

If by some miracle Adelphia rolls out a bunch of HD at the same time the series 3 debuts, I will drop D* like a hot rock. My dish can go to one of those support groups like in the commercial.
My adelphia outlet does not have NBC (supposedly a station issue) but also has Starz, ESPN2, HDNET HDNET Movies, INhd, InHD2, Discovery.

By the time T3 appears, you will likely belong to Time-Warner or Comcast.

vstone

01-09-2006, 09:38 AM

All that technology crammed in there makes me wonder what the final street price will be.
...Well DirecTV already paid for development of multiple interface HW/SW (HR10-250 has two D* tuners and 2 ATSC tuners, allowing any 2 to be recorded at once). It should have been relatively easy to modify the circuits to replace D* circuits with cablecard/QAM circuits. And, of course, they've been doing analog for years.

Scopeman

01-15-2006, 11:01 PM

90% of what I record is off the major networks. I could be tempted to leave D* and go with a series 3 and basic cable or even OTA (naaaa). My biggest hesitation with going back to an SA TiVo is the subscription. I hate it. But, with the amount of money the series three is going to cost, the lifetime subscription isn't that big of an addition. Then again, a cablecard PC tuner, and the possibility of a D* PC tuner, opens up a whole new world of possibilties. If the series 3 is ~$1k, plus the subscription, I would really lean toward MCE. It's going to be an interesting year.

MCE with extenders or Non-DTV Tivos with HMO. That is the big question.

MCE Option - a centralized 4-tuner MCE unit in the upstairs wiring closet with XBox 360 or other extenders at point-of-use. ~$3K to deploy. This gives me easy disk expansion, more complex usage and upgrade patterns.

S3 HDTivo option - deploy two of the new S3 HDTivos plus 1 older S2 SDTivo and enable HMO. This gives be a distributed, not centralized, environment. Still have buy the XBox 360, but just for the games. About ~$2K to deploy. Easier interface, more stable (in theory), slightly less freedom in expanding and modifying.

I'm leaning to the S3 HDTivo option - between my antenna, the QAM HD Locals on my cable and basic cable service I can get all my TV requirements for $40/month plus Tivo fees. This would end up costing about the same as I pay now for DTV.

Can't wait for these to hit the shelves.

Rych6896

01-17-2006, 01:20 PM

So I know I'm not going to like the answer but....I paid $199 to tivo several years ago for lifetime service for my directtivo. That service was switched to Directv. If I go back to cable and buy a series3 tivo will I still have my lifetime service with tivo?

oldskoolboarder

01-17-2006, 01:33 PM

Naggs

01-17-2006, 01:33 PM

jcricket

01-17-2006, 02:50 PM

Lifetime service applies to the lifetime of that particular box, so no.
This is correct for standalone Tivos, but at some point D* changed their policy and Lifetime covers your "account" for D* Tivo-based boxes. That is, if you paid Tivo (or D*) for lifetime service on your DirecTivo (way back when they offered it), it should cover your "DVR Service" for any Tivo based DVRs you have on D* as long as you maintain an active account.

For example, I originally bought a Hughes GXCEBOT (Series 1 DirecTivo) and paid for lifetime Tivo service. That same lifetime service still covers my HR10-250 and R10 Tivo receivers (i.e. I don't pay the $5.99 DVR Service Fee that most D* DVR customers have to pay).

Theoretically, I've heard that DVR service for an NDS-based DVR (R15 and the announced HR20) should also be covered under the "lifetime" arrangement, although I have yet to hear of people trying this out. When the R15 came out D* changed it so that both Tivos and NDS DVRs were covered by one (per household) DVR fee (originally $4.99, now $5.99) and changed the "Tivo Lifetime Service" to "DVR Service Lifetime - Free". I've heard from a couple of knowledgable TC members that lifetime service should/could cover a R15 and/or HR20. We'll see.

All that being said, AFAIK, lifetime won't transfer back to any standalone Tivo products (like a Series 3), because Naggs is right that standalone Tivo lifetime service is box specific.

nberggren

05-23-2006, 10:55 AM

Has anyone noticed that the external harddrive shown in the CES pics looks alot like WD MyBook series of external drives... Does it mean anything? Probably not. It did catch my eye though. One thing though, the WD unit does not support eSATA.

nberggren

05-23-2006, 10:55 AM

Can't link yet...

nberggren

05-23-2006, 10:56 AM

Okay...
http://www.westerndigital.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=232

alexandrepsf

05-23-2006, 11:07 AM

My thoughts precisely. I don't even need to absorb a cancellation fee.

The thought of Comcast is distinctly unpallatable, but I'm not seeing an option.

Yeap I agree too.

When I left Comcast I thought it was a goodbye, but for the first time I am reconsidering Comcast again. D* might have their plans to drop Tivo, but they defeinetly will lose a part of their customers because of this move.

newsposter

05-23-2006, 01:40 PM

'must' my (small) cable co have a cablecard for me/S3? I noticed in their rate card (updated 6 months ago) they dont list any fees etc. Does your cable company list that on their rate card?

KwikSilvr

05-23-2006, 03:35 PM

'must' my (small) cable co have a cablecard for me/S3? I noticed in their rate card (updated 6 months ago) they dont list any fees etc. Does your cable company list that on their rate card?

A little hard to understand your question the way it is worded. But if I understand you correctly the answer is "yes". All cable companies in the USA are required by FCC mandate (law?) to provide CableCard as an alternative to having a cable converter box.

drew2k

05-23-2006, 03:57 PM

A little hard to understand your question the way it is worded. But if I understand you correctly the answer is "yes". All cable companies in the USA are required by FCC mandate (law?) to provide CableCard as an alternative to having a cable converter box.And because they're required to offer it and charge less than a monthly box rental, most cable companies will require you to pay for "professional installation" of said cable card. They can't prevent you from asking for it, so they want to recoup some money via a bogus install fee.

SleepyBob

05-23-2006, 04:14 PM

A little hard to understand your question the way it is worded. But if I understand you correctly the answer is "yes". All cable companies in the USA are required by FCC mandate (law?) to provide CableCard as an alternative to having a cable converter box.

Are you sure about that? I thought that cable companies that were under a certain size were exempt from the CableCard requirements.

KwikSilvr

05-24-2006, 10:01 AM

Are you sure about that? I thought that cable companies that were under a certain size were exempt from the CableCard requirements.

That isn't how it reads (http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=082844e2e51e88f966299cf87e5f7afd&rgn=div5&view=text&node=47:4.0.1.1.4&idno=47#47:4.0.1.1.4.11.3.15) to me, but I don't really speak legalese.

[Edit]
When reading the document keep in mind that Point of Deployment modules (PODs) are CableCards.

MichaelK

05-25-2006, 04:06 PM

I was under the impression that the Big 5 providers MUST hand out cablecards and they must charge less than 2 bucks rental. But your ling to the CFR's appears to say it applies to all DIGITAL cable providers.

(I do regulatory compliance consulting for EPA, DOT, and OSHA regs- you have to find all the qualifiers and the scope to make sure anything applies-
76.640(a) says:
The requirements of this section shall apply to digital cable systems. For purposes of this section, digital cable systems shall be defined as a cable system with one or more channels utilizing QAM modulation for transporting programs and services from its headend to receiving devices. Cable systems that only pass through 8 VSB broadcast signals shall not be considered digital cable systems.)

So I guess dink analog systems are off the hook. But if they go digital they have to do cablecard.

Also there is no mention of the $2- so i would *GUESS* the FCC commented that they expected the cards to be cheap and if they weren't cheap they would consider cable to be circumventing the regulation and therfore they would act against such providers. Someone probably asked one of the commisioners what would be "cheap" and the response was "a couple bucks" and so the big five are all $2 or less.

One other thing- Verizon's FIOS does not currently have POD's so perhaps there is an FCC ruling limiting the regulation to providers over a certain size. And VZ is currently small enough to hide behind that. So it would stand to reason that smaller providers too could squeeze under that limit.

(on the other hand VZ might be hiding becasue perhaps they dont use QAM from the headend- but rather some other technique over fiber and only go QAM on the coax in the customers home? So they wouldn't be "digital cable" as defined above...)

stoli412

07-07-2006, 12:59 PM

I saw today that CableLabs has approved the new multi-stream CableCards from both Scientific Atlanta and Motorola. According to the article, cable companies will start distributing them in the next few months. Here's a link to the article:

http://www.cedmagazine.com/article/CA6350049.html

My question is: I thought the new multi-stream cards were still going to be one-way, meaning they could decode for multiple tuners at once but still would not be able to access things like VOD, PPV, etc. But the article claims otherwise, saying the cards "...will support video-on-demand, picture-in-picture, and other interactive cable services and applications." Could this be true? Is this what TiVo has been waiting for before releasing the Series 3?

Thoughts anyone?

amjustice

07-07-2006, 05:04 PM

that would certainly be sweet, at this point in time though I am so ready for it to be out that I dont really care, just release the damn thing already!!!

jautor

07-07-2006, 09:00 PM

The official press release from CableLabs just talks about the M-card in the context of multistream, not bi-directional...

http://cablelabs.org/news/pr/2006/06_pr_motorola_070606.html

stoli412

07-07-2006, 09:22 PM

Thanks for posting that jautor. I was pretty sure the article made a mistake. At any rate, there is now 1 less obstacle to releasing the Series 3: both major CA systems now have approved multi-stream cards.

jautor

07-08-2006, 12:21 AM

When I talked to TiVo folks at CES, they were expecting "at least one major" cableco to support multistream by the time the Series3 showed up in stores... Looks like that could happen.

Jeff

DTSDude

07-10-2006, 10:40 AM

Patman36

07-10-2006, 12:23 PM

Hey folks, I am a new around these parts but am a Tivo lover.

We have a Series 2 with a lifetime membership. We have a digital cable Motorola STB that the Tivo connects to. We just ordered a fancy new HDTV. We'll upgrade to HD service and I will get a Motorola HD STB that has a DVR built in (I think it is a DCT-6416). Two questions:

1) Can I still use my Series 2? It won't record the HD stuff, right?
2) What is this Series 3 I am hearing about? I am having trouble finding anything using the search function. This is a new HD Tivo with a CableCard slot? So basically, I could lose my STB, get a CableCard from my cable provider, and be all dumb and happy? The CableCard gets my programming for me and the guide is provided by Tivo?

Basically, I don't understand what my options are for a Tivo that will record HD material for me. Any hints? Is this Series 3 what I want?

Patrick

BillyT2002

07-10-2006, 12:30 PM

WAAAAAAAAHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can't wait to buy this and say goodbye to DirecTV. :) :) :) :)

jfh3

07-10-2006, 10:59 PM

1) Can I still use my Series 2? It won't record the HD stuff, right?

Yes to both.

2) What is this Series 3 I am hearing about? I am having trouble finding anything using the search function. This is a new HD Tivo with a CableCard slot? So basically, I could lose my STB, get a CableCard from my cable provider, and be all dumb and happy? The CableCard gets my programming for me and the guide is provided by Tivo?

Basically, I don't understand what my options are for a Tivo that will record HD material for me. Any hints? Is this Series 3 what I want?

The Series 3 hasn't been announced/released yet, though it is due in the next few months. If you want a Tivo with all the features that records HD, you want a Series 3. Your only other HD Tivo option (not counting the existing DirecTivo option) is if you have Comcast and wait until the end of the year when Comcast is expected to have a Tivo software option that will download to existing Motorola DVRs.

Bierboy

07-11-2006, 05:56 AM

The Series 3 hasn't been announced/released yet, though it is due in the next few months...I beg to differ....it's been announced....just not released.

gkacher

07-14-2006, 04:16 PM

Now that D* is yanking our HD Locals I need the S3. OTA for locals isn't reliable for me in the Bay Area. I've even hired professional TV antenna guys to try and solve the problem.

MichaelK

07-20-2006, 09:46 AM

Maybe the most intersting quote from that link:
"Next July, U.S. cable operators will be banned from buying digital set-tops with integrated security."

If this is true, life is good. Cablecard will become much more viable if even cable company boxes have to use software decryption.

the original thought was they would be handing out cablecard boxes themselves by now and that would make a gold rush of CE companies making all shapes and flavors of cablecard boxes that would be availible in retail. But cable keeps getting the deadline pushed bacl, so who knows when it becomes a reality (if ever).

Seems now they are pushing for somethign called OCAP which is software that doesn't require cablecard but cable would still control the interface.