iPod can now be a portable DVR!!!

[nathanbeer]

iSee 360 (http://w3.isee-ato.com/Products/Isee-360i/Default.aspx)

Very nice...now instead of ditching my old 40GB iPod photo, i can get video out of my iPod PLUS use the iPod as a DVR (of course it only looks like manual recordings) and much more robust features than what come in the new 5G video iPods.

* Play video with sound, using the iPod's headphones or external speakers.
* Record TV shows directly from your TV for playback.
* Record compressed video to your iPod for playback.
* Playback movies on your TV.
* Download and play movies, music videos, photos and music from your PC and the web.
* Zoom in and pan your photos, create and play slide shows.

TiVo killer??? No chance... but a great add-on for old iPods.

[davezatz]

What's the price on this thing? I'd probably just spring for an Archos AV500 (known brand, nice specs) for similar features and sell the old iPod on ebay.

[nathanbeer]

Looks like it will retail for $249...
Yes the AV500 is a nice all in one setup but for people like me who like or have a lot of time invested in importing hundreds of CD's into iTunes and iPod accessories, this is a nice way to "open" some nice features on your existing iPod.

If starting from scratch, this is a stupid way to go...but there are like 20 mil. iPod users that can now get color screen, pictures, video and DVR out of their old trusty iPod.

[davezatz]

Hm... that is kind of cheap - especially since all they leave out is the hard drive. Interesting! Some hands on reviews would be cool - how's the battery life (of both?), what kind of frame rates we talking, UI? Codec support seems decent.

[jsmeeker]

interesting. I'll have to check it out next week.

[Justin Thyme]

The iPod is reduced in this scheme to nothing more than a hard drive. This unit provides a new UI (with unknown software quality), the expense of a new LCD & new circuitry. This is only $50 cheaper than a video iPod. Why not do as Dave suggested- sell off the iPod, and buy an Archos, or Buy a video iPod and use TivoToGo to get your Video.

Why the latter? If this is a vcr type interface like the Archos (record date and time- no guide, no passes), surprise surprise, users are going to suffer from the same error prone process of programming a vcr.

Admittedly, I never had that much trouble with VCR programming. But what about the other 95% of the population?

In real life is would it really be more convenient than a Tivo-iPod combo? What you have with the current TivoToGo setup with Creative Zen and other MCE compatible players is you click to transfer the video from the Tivo and that is it. TTG does the transfer, and with your Portable player set to autoSync, then the video is sucked over to the portable as soon as it appears on the PC. So it is really needs to be no more difficult than a single key click operation. There is no reason to assume that the iPod transfer will be any less simple. The Tivo Transfer route takes more time on the clock, but less actual user time to muck with. The transfer happens over night so does that make the error prone VCR direct method better? I'd have to use them for a few weeks but I am skeptical the dumb vcr way is better for joe average user.

The best solution would be to stick the Tivo UI on a portable. Maybe Samsung will finally realize this is the leg up that their Yepp line needs.

[davezatz]

That's a good point... I was thinking $249 would be a bargain compared to the Archos (~$450). But compared to a video-capable iPod ($299) it doesn't look so appealing - especially when you consider the extra girth of an older generation iPod, plus additional heft of this add-on. I'm going back to the idea that it's safer with known software and UI in one integrated device.

I'm still interested in seeing some hands-on reviews though - this retrofitting appeals to the hacker in me. :)

[Justin Thyme]

Hey it appeals to me too. At one point I was thinking of buying a Dodge Ram that had a PTO option on it's transmission. That way, I could rig up a brush hog off the back and mow all the saplings down on the north 40. A man never knows when he will need to bolt on some farm implements to his rig....

[TiVoStephen]

I just downloaded the manual for this. Unless I'm missing something, you can ONLY record what's currently playing. There's no provision for even VCR-type recording (let alone Season Passes). It has no ability to change channels or tune; it just takes an input source and lets you hit the record button to save video. But for people like me who have older iPods (non-video-iPod), this is an interesting way to get video playback. This might work well with TiVoToGo. Anyone who tries it, let us know how well it works.

[Justin Thyme]

I guess that rules out bolting on Brush Hogs too.

Really surprizing they didn't bother to stick a timer in there, with a few lines of software to set it. You have a pointer to the manual? Half the site is broken- (page not found on clicking support tab [not a good sign], no search page and so on).

[Dan203]

What makes this really interesting to me is the fact that it plays MPEG-2 video. With that feature you can do a quick decryption of your .tivo files (Google it, you'll find out how) and load them directly onto the player. No need to go through the conversion to MPEG-4 required for PSPs or video iPods.

Dan

[Justin Thyme]

You will still have to do a conversion to scale the image, since this unit's requires video stored at 640x480 pixels, according to page 46 of the user manual (see Stephen's link to manual following this note).

Actually, Mpeg2 support is common. Creative Zen does (http://www.microsoft.com/windowsmobile/devices/devicedisplay.aspx?module=deviceDisplay;PMC;americas;115). Yepp Media player supports mpeg2 (http://www.microsoft.com/windowsmobile/devices/devicedisplay.aspx?module=deviceDisplay;PMC;americas;116), and so does the iRiver (http://www.microsoft.com/windowsmobile/devices/devicedisplay.aspx?module=deviceDisplay;PMC;americas;175)

[TiVoStephen]

You have a pointer to the manual? Half the site is broken- (page not found on clicking support tab [not a good sign], no search page and so on).I clicked on Support then Manuals to find this page:

http://www.atotechsupport.com/?cid=14&lid=1&id=4

The link in the center lets you download a PDF manual. The manual itself is well-written, but I agree that the site seems to have a lot of problems.

[Justin Thyme]

Ok. You got further than I could go. When I clicked on support, I got a host not found error. It seems to be back up now. Thanks.

It is shocking, but from what this manual says, you are absolutely right. Not even a vcr like funtion where you can set a time to record.

[NotVeryWitty]

Unless I'm missing something, you can ONLY record what's currently playing. There's no provision for even VCR-type recording (let alone Season Passes). It has no ability to change channels or tune; it just takes an input source and lets you hit the record button to save video.

Ironically, this simple feature is actually not possible on a Tivo; i.e., I cannot hook up a video source to the Tivo's line in and just tell it to start recording it. :o

[davezatz]

Ironically, this simple feature is actually not possible on a Tivo; i.e., I cannot hook up a video source to the Tivo's line in and just tell it to start recording it. :o

Mine can.

[ZeoTiVo]

Ironically, this simple feature is actually not possible on a Tivo; i.e., I cannot hook up a video source to the Tivo's line in and just tell it to start recording it. :o


yes TiVo DVRs with DVD recorders can do this as Dave alluded to. I think regular TiVos can do this as well though I have not tried it myself.

MY take is the same as others. This would be a way to make an old iPod perform like a new iPod video but since the recording part is a brain dead real time only then either just get an iPod video and skip the recording or else get an archos if a portable with recording is what you want. I imagine you can get TiVo video to any of the 3 solutions though the video iPod will have the offiical TiVo support early next year.

[davezatz]

I think TiVo needs to put that iPod/PSP conversion and sync software on the fast track... DirecTV 2Go two players (Humax PMP, RCA Lyra) have been announced. I suspect we'll get more announcements in the next day or so.

As far as using a portable as a recorder, I have minimal use for that sort of feature. Unless the device sort of docks into a full-fledged DVR mother ship and I just yank it out before I leave the house.

[ZeoTiVo]

I think TiVo needs to put that iPod/PSP conversion and sync software on the fast track... DirecTV 2Go two players (Humax PMP, RCA Lyra) have been announced. I suspect we'll get more announcements in the next day or so.

As far as using a portable as a recorder, I have minimal use for that sort of feature. Unless the device sort of docks into a full-fledged DVR mother ship and I just yank it out before I leave the house.


they have fast tracked this. TiVo realized that talking with Apple was fruitless and just decided to do it themsleves and have committed to first quarter of 2006 for the software to be out. I suspect they had an upgrade of desktop in the works already with its own codec and could easily add this on. I suspect that is why TiVo has let the open source converters like harmony and eTiVo go about their business with no fuss. TiVo most likely got some great ideas from them ;)

and as others know I think portable video is a GREAT thing, but battery life needs to be addressed. I want a minimum of 4 hours play time with a short charge time say 1 hour tops) in between. I get that with my smartphone and its SD flash memory card. Anyone know of any 20 gig hard drive players that can do this, because I would like to find one to use.

[davezatz]

Anyone know of any 20 gig hard drive players that can do this, because I would like to find one to use.

The 30GB video-capable iPod is rated at 2 hours, though in my unscientific testing it was less than this (granted I was ff/rw-ing back and forth and probably had the brightness way up). The 60GB is rated at 4HRs, though it's bulkier than the 30 - presumably for the larger battery. I'm not sure what the Zen Vision, Archos AV500, etc are rated at but if I'm going down that path I want a larger screen like that (which requires more juice). I can't remember how long my Axim was good for... hmmm. Then again my subway commuting days seem to be over, so maybe I should just watch TV, you know, AT the TV. ;)

[nhaigh]

I have the Video iPod and use it a lot - amost all for Video. The battery life is a problem so I have invested in an additional external battery that will give be 10-14 hours Video playback. The iPod's internal battery is fine for my daily train journey to work but I need more for travelling on a plane.

[ZeoTiVo]

I have the Video iPod and use it a lot - amost all for Video. The battery life is a problem so I have invested in an additional external battery that will give be 10-14 hours Video playback. The iPod's internal battery is fine for my daily train journey to work but I need more for travelling on a plane.


that is cool. I can live with an extra battery approach. The UMF on the next video iPod is going to be very strong


EDIT - I just saw this from another thread
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3636976&&#post3636976

basically HUMAX has finally put out a portable with the AMD alchemy chipset.
this one hooks directly up to the DirectTV DVR (new NDS one only I think) AARRRRGGGGHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhh................

where is the one for TiVo's DVR :mad: I really hope TiVo has something to say about this at CES

[bomberjim]

For those that mentioned Creative's Zen Vision (Justin and Dave). I have one, works great. The battery life is about 4 to 4.5 hours. There is a large capacity battery available (~$60) that doubles this. As far as mpeg 2 support is concerned, bitrate can be a problem. Creative claims on their forum that bitrates are limited to 2500, in practice many users say bitrates in excess of 2000 cause problems with stuttering or freezes. I convert all my video to divx or xvid with bitrates in the 900 to 1200 range and the player works great.

Jim L

[Justin Thyme]

Good info. I am unfamiliar with the newer "vision" unit- and I was unaware of the bitrate problem. I wonder what the recommended rate would be form the most demanding action films at the pixel resolution dimensions that the Vision supports. Presumably this is Mpeg4 decompression complexity rearing its ugly head.

If you have problems with fast scenes in action movies with Mpeg4, I wonder if you could try converting the file into an Mpeg2 and playing it. I thought it very curious that the HD Camcorders are all using Mpeg2 not mpeg4. The encoders are not there yet, but the decoders are pushing the limits- especially on the portables.

[As a digression on mpeg4 performance evaluation- On standalones, folks should check if the unit is Divx HD certified. Maybe Microsoft has a certification process for their WMV-HD dvd initiative. If the unit plays those HD files too, you should be good.]

[nhaigh]

where is the one for TiVo's DVR :mad: I really hope TiVo has something to say about this at CES

For what it's worth my Video iPod is my one for the TiVo. TiVo have already anounced that they will support it propoerly in from the TiVo Desktop Q1 2006. I suspect iPod and TiVo will be up and running officially before we can really buy and use the DirecTV solution.

[ZeoTiVo]

For what it's worth my Video iPod is my one for the TiVo. TiVo have already anounced that they will support it propoerly in from the TiVo Desktop Q1 2006. I suspect iPod and TiVo will be up and running officially before we can really buy and use the DirecTV solution.

yes, the iPod/PSP support will make for a much better desktop in early 2006 and I look forward to it and might even go a video iPod route myself after seeing the next version from Apple. BUt it still needs a PC involved as I have one involved now.

I just had last year been looking forward to a direct connect alchemy based player and had decided it died on the vine for some technical reason. I see now that is not the case and wonder where TiVo has been in all this. I suspect HUMAX/TiVo did not see enough sales for a TiVo based one and that DirectTV is subsidizing the R&D and some mfg. cost so they have a competing product to DISH and the Archos.

of ocurse I could eat crow in two days and hear about all sorts of portable players that hook up to all sorts of things :)

[davezatz]

Isn't she sexy? (Nevermind that 320x240 max resolution.)

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/wordpress/wp-content/dtvlyra.jpg

[Dan203]

You will still have to do a conversion to scale the image, since this unit's requires video stored at 640x480 pixels, according to page 46 of the user manual (see Stephen's link to manual following this note).

That's sucks! I wonder why they would limit it to that resolution when most video captured from NTSC sources are either 720x480 or 320x480?

Dan

[bomberjim]

Good info. I am unfamiliar with the newer "vision" unit- and I was unaware of the bitrate problem. I wonder what the recommended rate would be form the most demanding action films at the pixel resolution dimensions that the Vision supports. Presumably this is Mpeg4 decompression complexity rearing its ugly head.

If you have problems with fast scenes in action movies with Mpeg4, I wonder if you could try converting the file into an Mpeg2 and playing it. I thought it very curious that the HD Camcorders are all using Mpeg2 not mpeg4. The encoders are not there yet, but the decoders are pushing the limits- especially on the portables.

[As a digression on mpeg4 performance evaluation- On standalones, folks should check if the unit is Divx HD certified. Maybe Microsoft has a certification process for their WMV-HD dvd initiative. If the unit plays those HD files too, you should be good.]

The bitrate limitation was not advertised by Creative, it came up in discussions on Creative's forum in response to some complaints. The bitrate problems seem to be primarily associated with Mpeg 2 files, since they normally have higher bitrates than Divx/Xvid. I've had NO problems with playback using a properly encoded Divx or Xvid file. The unit is not Divx certified, but is advertised to capable of handling Divx 4 or 5. My experience supports this. I use bitrates of 900 to 1200. Since I don't mind doing the conversions, and hard drive space is my main concern, I don't much care about Mpeg 2 anyway.

The unit supports all resolutions up to 640 by 480 (VGA) and some folks claim success with even higher. I would assume that processor power is the limiting factor, i.e. bitrate/resolution.

Overall, I love it. The only downsides are limited viewing angle, and the fact that it's a bit portly, like other units of this type. But hey, you can't get a 4" screen on an Ipod nano.

Jim L

[davezatz]

Peter Rojas, of Engadget, got a hands-on with the iSee... he seems to dig it, but thinks they could lower the cost somewhat:

http://www.engadget.com/2006/01/06/hands-on-with-the-isee-360i/