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kiljoy
12-21-2005, 04:58 AM
I'm in the mood for a Trek debate, so here it is. What would be your worst five Trek characters? They can be undeveloped, poorly acted, badly conceived, or just plain distasteful. (That's Travis Mayweather, Tom Paris, Dr. Polaski, and Wesley Crusher.)

I'd imagine my top five would be those four plus Ezri Dax, though I can cut her a little slack for stepping in after Farrell left.

Tony

cheesesteak
12-21-2005, 07:24 AM
Wesley Crusher
Neelix
Grand Negus Zek
Troi
Malcolm Reed

PeternJim
12-21-2005, 07:59 AM
Don't know if this is something where I can be as concrete as "worst" but I'll throw a couple cents into the mix.

I think the single most disappointing character in all of Trek to me was Tasha Yar. She never really embodied what she was supposed to. She was supposed to be a survivor of a feral childhood on a failed colony, fighting by her wits to survive abuse, rape, mayhem, and bad hair and all, only rescued by Starfleet. As I understand it, the working model they had was the character of Vasquez in Aliens, and they actually considered Jenette Goldstein for Yar. Wow, how different that would have been! Of course, if she had worked out, Worf wouldn't have gone the same direction he did. Denise Crosby did her best and had her moments, but I still wish...

I have to throw Kes in as well. What was the point? They could have done some really neat stuff with her if she hadn't been so starkly and unrelievedly nice. We got a taste of what Jennifer Lien might have been able to do in the episode where she got possessed. I always thought that with her short life-cycle, they could have gotten Kes pregnant, and she could have played a double-role as Kes and her daughter for one season, then had Kes age and die, with Jennifer continuing in the new role. At least a little drama there.

I think both Wesley Crusher and Katherine Pulaski come under the heading of Bad Idea. They were doomed from the first. The whole idea of children on the Enterprise was a stupid one, and the fact that the writers grabbed the Boy Genius idea and ran with it just made that worse. And when they decided that Beverly wasn't working out, putting Dr. McCoy in drag and trying to pass her off as a new idea was unforgiveble. Diana Muldour deserved better, and could probably have done better with better writing.

The entire Vulcan race on Enterprise was just WRONG. You want to screw with something, make it up fresh, don't completely trash all the continuity of the whole franchise just to get some pissy pointy-eared bad guys.

I think Chakotay, Harry Kim, Ezri Dax, Malcolm Reed, and Travis Mayweather all suffered from Terminal Bland. The characters didn't have a hook for the writers to latch onto and run with, so they simply never developed at all. Since the writers didn't care, we didn't either.

Lenore Karidian had to be the single most annoying character in any Trek incarnation. Okay, so she was a deranged Shakespearian serial murderer, but she managed to play THAT over the top.

I have very, very mixed feelings about some of the other alien races. The writers seemed to have a gift for creating very complex and rich ideas, then dumbing them down to pointlessness. The Trill and the Ferengi were the best examples of this. The possibilities inherent in both races and the opportunities to see truly alien species went right out the window almost instantly. At the same time, I love Dax, and the Ferengi we ended up with were a hoot. Ah well.

Okay. More than five. Oops.

5thcrewman
12-21-2005, 08:40 AM
That one guy in that episode, you know, the guy in the red shirt, got hisself killed?
THAT guy!

Lannister80
12-21-2005, 09:16 AM
Worst
Tasha Yar - TNG
Neelix - Voyager
Harry Kim - Voyager
Kira Nerys - DS9
Seven of Nine (hot but boring) - Voyager

Best
Picard (all hail the Picard!)
Riker
Kirk
Worf
Data

Gee, am I TNG biased or what?

newsposter
12-21-2005, 09:17 AM
5th you beat me to it....was gonna say the poor person who wasn't in the part of the landing party normally...as soon as Kirk said: Spock, McCoy, Sulu, McHatchery...you just knew McHatchery was gonna die!

7thton
12-21-2005, 09:55 AM
Any list that doesn't begin with Janeway is bogus.

cheesesteak
12-21-2005, 09:56 AM
originally posted by Lannister80
Best
Picard (all hail the Picard!)
Riker

I'll take Sisko and Kira Nerys over Picard and Riker any day of the week.

busyba
12-21-2005, 10:02 AM
You know, I just saw the "Arctic Radar" episode of The West Wing again yesterday and then I see this thread which is eerily evocative of a conversation Josh had with a WH worker who was a Trekkie:


I'm a fan. I'm a sports fan, I'm a music fan and I'm a Star Trek fan. All of them.
But here's what I don't do. Tell me if any of this sounds familiar: "Let's list our
ten favorite episodes. Let's list our least favorite episodes. Let's list our favorite
galaxies. Let's make a chart to see how often our favorite galaxies appear in our
favorite episodes. What Romulan would you most like to see coupled with a Cardassian
and why? Let's spend a weekend talking about Romulans falling in love with Cardassians
and then let's do it again." That's not being a fan. That's having a fetish.
"Tell me if any of this sounds familiar", indeed :D

johnspalm
12-21-2005, 10:04 AM
Chakotay - may have been the victim of bad script writing

Ezri Dax - a victim of the replacement curse

Travis Mayweather - just plain bad casting

Nog - how irritating

Jake Sisko - just a waste of screen real estate

BetterYeti
12-21-2005, 10:11 AM
I have very, very mixed feelings about some of the other alien races. The writers seemed to have a gift for creating very complex and rich ideas, then dumbing them down to pointlessness. The Trill and the Ferengi were the best examples of this. Yeah, but I think the worst alien race among the regulars was the race that was the original antagonist in Voyager. They are so unmemorable, I'm not even sure I recall the name. The Kurzon? Or was that the name of one of them? Anyway, the lead member of that race would be on my list for one of the five worst characters.

Consistent with your "dumbing down" point was the merciless emasculating of the Borg. By the end, what did we get? Something like Catwoman and her moronic henchmen from the Adam West version of Batman.

Rkkeller
12-21-2005, 10:14 AM
Anyone on DS9 and Enterprise (except Tupal) if you ask me. I watched most of the episodes because it was ST but never could really get into it.


Rich

DougF
12-21-2005, 11:57 AM
Yeah, but I think the worst alien race among the regulars was the race that was the original antagonist in Voyager. They are so unmemorable, I'm not even sure I recall the name. The Kurzon? Or was that the name of one of them? Anyway, the lead member of that race would be on my list for one of the five worst characters...

Kazon.

DougF
12-21-2005, 12:08 PM
Chakotay - may have been the victim of bad script writing...

All he ever did was bitch about the writing, so they probably did intentionally give him crap to work with.

DougF
12-21-2005, 12:17 PM
I'll definitely second Mayweather. I'm sure Montgomery can act, but he sure wasn't given a chance. When they finally got around to a Travis episode, I wasn't even interested.

As for Paris, I think the producer blew it by re-casting an actor from a very visible role in a somewhat similar one. Everytime I saw Paris, I thought of Nick Lecarno. Plus, we just never got to see enough of Tom Paris' bad side.

DRobbins
12-21-2005, 12:17 PM
And when they decided that Beverly wasn't working out, putting Dr. McCoy in drag and trying to pass her off as a new idea was unforgiveble. Diana Muldour deserved better, and could probably have done better with better writing.

I have no idea how accurate it really is, but I've read in multiple places that the real reason Gates McFadden (Beverly Crusher) left TNG for a season was because she was being sexually harassed by one of the show's producers. Supposedly, during the season she was away, the other actors became increasingly annoyed by Diana Muldaur "phoning it in" (basically not bothering to learn her lines) and pretty much demanded that Gates McFadden return. The producer responsible for the harassment left (I have no idea if it was at all related to the offense) and McFadden was persuaded to return.

Anyway, Dr. Pulaski would be at the top of my list of worst Trek characters. I'd add the Grand Nagus, Moogie and 1st-season Wesley Crusher to the list.

7thton
12-21-2005, 12:20 PM
I'd add the Grand Nagus, Moogie
I really like all the Ferengi characters. They are really funny and have a totally different motivation than do most of the other Trek races.

BetterYeti
12-21-2005, 01:20 PM
On DS9, I used to like Cassidy Yates' character, but I now associate the actress so completely with Sheri Palmer from 24 that I can barely watch her. Not one of my 5 worst characters exactly, but I find it really hard to enjoy when she's featured in episodes. Kinda weird, actually.

I'm generally pro-Ferengi, but Moogie skeeved me out . . . especially with the association that Ferengi generally kept their women naked. Ewww.

5thcrewman
12-21-2005, 02:05 PM
All the characters played by Jeffrey Combs!
Tiron
Brunt
Weyoun
Penk
Shran
Krem

Langree
12-21-2005, 02:23 PM
Ensign Ricky


:p

NoThru22
12-21-2005, 03:17 PM
Kazon.
No no. Kazon Ogla.

Now how does a guy like me manage to get laid so much?

JYoung
12-21-2005, 03:42 PM
Rick Berman and Brannon Braga. :p

Seriously,
each series had it's own bad characters so let's run down the list:

TOS

Nurse Chapel
The character served no purpose other than to make Spock uncomfortable but since the actress was one of Roddenberry's mistresses.....

TNG

Wesley Crusher
Essentially, Roddenberry's Mary Sue character. Wes was incredibly annoying, especially during the first season. I will grant that the character improved greatly in the late 3rd season/early 4th season.
Not a dig at Wil Wheaton though as he seems pretty cool from his blog.

Deanna Troi
They never really had a handle on her character from day one and it shows.
Part of the problem is that they never utilitzed the Riker/Troi dynamic to it's full potential.
A shame as I rather like Marina Sirtis.


DS9

Most of the characters were quite good (although I didn't like Kira in the first season and I found Bashir almost unwatchable in the first two) so I have to go with Rom.
Too often he was the easy joke and was alternately an idiot or a genius.
I still don't understand what Lita saw in him.

Voyager

Voyager is often a case of squandered potential.
After the first couple of seasons, it was apparent that if you weren't the Captain, a hologram, or a hot Borg in a catsuit, you weren't getting much to do.
(Although to be fair to Jeri Ryan, she turned out to be a pretty good actress and elevated the part above the material)

However, I found Neelix highly annoying for the first two seasons and after that I was numb about the character. (In fact, numb is how I felt about all the characters on Voyager in Seasons 5, 6, and 7)


Enterprise

Buuuuutt, I think that the five worst characters were all on Enterprise. They all could have been compelling characters but instead were wasted.

Jonathan Archer
You'd think the first starship captain would been more, you know, heroic?
But the way Archer was written, he swung from being a total tool to being a total moron. He's supposed to be a great man in history and the best and brightest of Earth but I saw very little evidence of that.
The only reason I could see that he got command was because his daddy built the ship.
(Not to mention that he fights like a girl)

T'Pol
We need a hot babe in a catsuit so let's hire a large breasted model. Wait, her breasts aren't big enough so let's add extra padding!
(Are breast implants logical?)
Who cares if she's more emotional and less logical than Archer. No one will notice because of her catsuit.
And we're not even going to mention turning her into the ship's masseuse and the ship's crack whore.

Reed
Because he's British, he's less emotional than T'Pol?????
He was supposed to be reserved but was often written as a socially inept twit if not downright neurotic.
When he tried to commit suicide in Minefield, I was begging Archer to let him him do it!
If the IIC actually had the cajones write him as gay, he might have been more interesting but in the words of our own Bob Carn, "I hope he's not gay because he seems to have the boring gene." (Paraphrasing)

Mayweather
Or as I like to call him, that wood plank that just sits there.
Not the fault of Anthony Montgomery because the part was sold to him as this guy who had grown up out there and had seen a lot. However, this aspect was very rarely used and Mayweather usually comes across as a dumb, goofy, kid who you don't mind living next door to, but has no business being with Earth's "Best and brightest" in deep space. So basically, he would up as a glorified limo driver.
(Driving Miss T'Pol anyone?)


Sato
Well she's supposed to be this genius translator but that aspect also got quickly dropped and with the insistence on making T'Pol the sex symbol, Sato promptly got shuffled to the background, occasionally making frightened noises.
(Which really made it jarring when they tried to show her as being kick ass in Aikido later on).
So basically, it degenerated into "Hailing frequencies open, Captain".
(Another minority kept down by the man! ;) )

Only Tucker and Phlox were the least bit compelling and I credit this far more to the actors than the writers.

ADent
12-21-2005, 04:37 PM
Wesley

Troi (Actress is OK, character OK in Farpoint but useless afterwards)

Reed

Chapel

Kai Wynn

bdlucas
12-21-2005, 04:44 PM
How about the black and white guy in one episode of TOS.

Or maybe the hippies from another episode of TOS.

(Sorry, don't know my Trek well enough to be more specific).

ChofuHS
12-21-2005, 04:47 PM
Wesley for sure.

Dr. Polaski

Counselr Troi, but good eye candy.

Troi's Mom!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The guys wife, hmmm, the guy who played in Con Air, oh well, brain fart. He usually ran the transporter in TNG. (wife just chimed in) Miles O'Brien's wife confirmed marriage has not been perfected even in the future!

ChofuHS
12-21-2005, 04:50 PM
I really like all the Ferengi characters. They are really funny and have a totally different motivation than do most of the other Trek races.


:up: :up: :up: Me too! Quark is my favorite character in all of the shows, maybe "Q" being second, although the wife hates the Q episodes!

spartanstew
12-21-2005, 04:52 PM
Counselr Troi, but good eye candy.


egads. I'd rather bang a green chick.

jsmeeker
12-21-2005, 04:55 PM
I can't bag on Wes TOO much. I mean, no Wesley would mean no Ensign Robin Leffler.


:)

anom
12-21-2005, 04:58 PM
I'll definitely second Mayweather. I'm sure Montgomery can act, I'm not.
but he sure wasn't given a chance. When they finally got around to a Travis episode, I wasn't even interested.

As for Paris, I think the producer blew it by re-casting an actor from a very visible role in a somewhat similar one. Everytime I saw Paris, I thought of Nick Lecarno. Plus, we just never got to see enough of Tom Paris' bad side.
I don't know why they didn't just take that same character and put him in Voyager (did they kill him off?). It was pretty much the same character, played by the same actor.

Fool Me Twice
12-21-2005, 04:58 PM
No no. Kazon Ogla.

Now how does a guy like me manage to get laid so much?$$$

JYoung
12-21-2005, 05:04 PM
I'm not.

I don't know why they didn't just take that same character and put him in Voyager (did they kill him off?). It was pretty much the same character, played by the same actor.

Money.
They'd have to pay the writer of the episode royalties on the character every time he was used.

Graymalkin
12-21-2005, 05:13 PM
Majel Barrett (Nurse Chapel) was Gene's mistress?

Just checked her bio, and by golly, she and Gene were not married until August 1969. So she was, in fact, his main squeeze during the initial run of TOS.

Huh. I learned something new today.

LoadStar
12-21-2005, 05:31 PM
I would agree with everything JYoung wrote, with one exception - I'd drop off Troi, and replace with Dr. Pulaski. Other than that, JYoung said it all and said it better than I'd say it.

LoadStar
12-21-2005, 05:36 PM
Oh - and I forgot one I'd add... I'd add Chief Engineer DuJour on TNG. No, there was no one named DuJour on the show -- but there was a new "Chief Engineer of the day" almost every week until LaForge took the position full time. It was almost comical when they had a script that required a chief engineer, and it was always a surprise to see who would play the role.

JYoung
12-21-2005, 05:50 PM
Majel Barrett (Nurse Chapel) was Gene's mistress?

Just checked her bio, and by golly, she and Gene were not married until August 1969. So she was, in fact, his main squeeze during the initial run of TOS.

Huh. I learned something new today.

Why do you think she was cast as Number One in the first pilot?

But you also have to consider that while Gene was married to wife #1, not only was he doing the horizontal mambo with Majel, he was also doing it with Nichelle Nichols. :eek:

Graymalkin
12-21-2005, 05:58 PM
I learned two things today. Neither of them very complimentary toward Gene Randyberry.

darthrsg
12-21-2005, 06:00 PM
worst:
kirk
picard
sulu
spock
uhuru

best:
scotty
chekov
kahn
any and all klingons
the worm in chekovs ear

Granny
12-21-2005, 06:02 PM
Q
Janeway
Troi's Mother - actually anything Majel Barret did
Whoopie Goldberg character on TNG
Mayweather

busyba
12-21-2005, 06:06 PM
Jonathan Archer
You'd think the first starship captain would been more, you know, heroic?
But the way Archer was written, he swung from being a total tool to being a total moron. He's supposed to be a great man in history and the best and brightest of Earth but I saw very little evidence of that.
Just to over-analyze this for a moment...

If "ST:First Contact" taught us anything, it taught us that people are not necessarily who they appear to be when seen through the prisim of history. History tends to remember men who did great things as being great themselves, regardless of who they really were.

So Archer the man being significantly lamer than Archer the myth is not something I'm particularly troubled by.

(...especially considering all the other things on ENT that are far more troubling. :))

nedthelab
12-21-2005, 06:55 PM
How about the black and white guy in one episode of TOS.

Or maybe the hippies from another episode of TOS.

(Sorry, don't know my Trek well enough to be more specific).

That would be the Loki/Lodi episode - interesting parable on race relations, and the hippie episode had Charles Napier sing "hey eden" with his auto harp - silly to say the least

Worst -

Kirk - I mean really
Wesley - Airlock Please
Christopher Loyd Playing a Klingon ST III
Hey how did the person chnage from Kirten Alley to whomever as Savick From ST II to III -must be some Vulcan changline thing
Archer - weak!!!

DougF
12-21-2005, 10:55 PM
I'm not.

I don't know why they didn't just take that same character and put him in Voyager (did they kill him off?). It was pretty much the same character, played by the same actor.

Nick Locarno was expelled from the Academy. He wasn't killed off. Well, at least not on screen. I imagine that character made it into some books.

The idea of Tom Paris was good and there was some good conflict early on. But he was softened up way too much, IMO.

EchoBravo
12-21-2005, 11:35 PM
TOS
Every. Single. Last. One of 'em. (Sorry. Had to. Revenge at all you DS9 haters... Nothin' personal).

TNG
Troi... Seems I just remember her frowning and saying "I sense... <insert emotion here>." Ugh!
She was better after "Chain of Command I & II" when she got to wear the grownup Starfleet uniform instead of her cosmic cheerleader get-up.

Wes Crusher... For all the above-stated and obvious reasons. I like the actor though. Just an ill-conceived role.

Dr. Pulaski... Annoying in every way. Hated her on L.A. Law. Hated her on TNG.
Maybe that means she's a good actress though. I wasn't supposed to like her, was I?

DS9
Rom... Although he did get a pretty girl in the end... I mean at the end. He got the pretty girl at the end of the series.

VOY
Speaking of pretty girls, Kes... Again, for all the obvious and above-stated reasons.

ENT
Again, every last one of 'em!
This the only Trek series where I couldn't even remember the characters'/actors' names. Blech!

emandbri
12-21-2005, 11:54 PM
I have no idea how accurate it really is, but I've read in multiple places that the real reason Gates McFadden (Beverly Crusher) left TNG for a season was because she was being sexually harassed by one of the show's producers.

Wow, I always thought she left after her son was born but now I see he wasn't born until 1991 and she was on (1987-1988, 1989-1994).

Emily

JYoung
12-22-2005, 12:10 AM
Just to over-analyze this for a moment...

If "ST:First Contact" taught us anything, it taught us that people are not necessarily who they appear to be when seen through the prisim of history. History tends to remember men who did great things as being great themselves, regardless of who they really were.

So Archer the man being significantly lamer than Archer the myth is not something I'm particularly troubled by.

(...especially considering all the other things on ENT that are far more troubling. :))

Then throwing out the historical context, why would Earth put this moron/tool in command of the first Warp 5 Starship? I find that disturbing on it's own.
(Trained diplomat, my a$$)

busyba
12-22-2005, 01:25 AM
Then throwing out the historical context, why would Earth put this moron/tool in command of the first Warp 5 Starship?
Uhhhh...... I got nuthin' :D

newsposter
12-22-2005, 08:26 AM
how about the 'gorgon?' guy that all the children chanted around? Hail hail...oh forget it...

LoadStar
12-22-2005, 09:05 AM
Then throwing out the historical context, why would Earth put this moron/tool in command of the first Warp 5 Starship? I find that disturbing on it's own.
(Trained diplomat, my a$$)

Nepotism, plain and simple. Daddy Dearest was one of the chief developers of the engine, and he got his kid a job.

cheesesteak
12-22-2005, 09:29 AM
I used to like the Klingons until the Jem Hadar came along. Now those were some baaaad mofos. They made the Klingons look like a bunch of drunken stumblebums.

ihatecable
12-22-2005, 10:06 AM
Troi's Mom!!!!!!!!!!!!!is Nurse Chapel

vman41
12-22-2005, 10:07 AM
Supposedly, during the season she was away, the other actors became increasingly annoyed by Diana Muldaur "phoning it in" (basically not bothering to learn her lines) and pretty much demanded that Gates McFadden return.rs.

I can believe that. The complete lack of chemistry between Muldaur and the rest of the cast made her scenes so unbearable to watch that I have no idea whether Pulaski was a good character concept or not.

The only others I really disliked were Neelix and Wesley Crusher, and Q.

JustAllie
12-22-2005, 11:23 AM
Then throwing out the historical context, why would Earth put this moron/tool in command of the first Warp 5 Starship? I find that disturbing on it's own.
(Trained diplomat, my a$$)Um, have you seen him running around in tight blue underwear?

Clearly some descendent of mine is going to be making the job assignments when Starfleet is created, and she's not going to use "skill" or "qualifications" as the criteria. :o

PJO1966
12-22-2005, 11:24 AM
In no particular order

Dr. Pulasky
Wesley Crusher
Data
Malcolm Reed
Reginald Barclay

JustAllie
12-22-2005, 11:47 AM
BTW, I don't have a Top 5 list, but I do want to agree with others about Nurse Chapel. Regardless of how the actress got the job (I don't care), the very concept of that character annoyed me to no end. She was so insipid, with no apparent purpose other than fetching things for McCoy and then pining after Spock. NOBODY wanted her to get Spock. People who wrote fan fiction felt they could put Spock in bed with KIRK ( :confused: ) before they'd put Spock in bed with Chapel. That's gotta tell you something. Ugh.

PJO1966
12-22-2005, 11:55 AM
NTTAWWT

:D

Fish Man
12-22-2005, 12:04 PM
If we can expand this discussion to the movies...

The most annoying and pointless character in the history of the Star Trek franchise was, IMHO:

Ilia (aka "the bald chick") from Star Trek: The Motion Picture. She became the communications link with "V'ger" but both before and after that transformation she was just annoying as all heck!

The fact that Capt. Decker was completely whipped by her made him useless and annoying too, a pity since he was supposed to be the son of "Commodore Decker" from the TOS episode "The Doomsday Machine", and Commodore Decker may have been the best written and best acted guest character ever on a Star Trek series show.

JustAllie
12-22-2005, 12:10 PM
NTTAWWT

:DWell, there wouldn't be if there had been any indication whatsoever in the series that either Kirk or Spock played with that team, if you know what I mean. ;)

nedthelab
12-22-2005, 12:13 PM
Is also the voice of the computers

purwater
12-22-2005, 12:19 PM
Best:

Sisko
Riker
Kirk
Scotty
Martok

Worst:

Pulaski
All ferengi except Quark
Kaiko
Wesley Crusher
Barclay

I hated all the episodes centered around my worst list. I liked Picard enough to be on my best list, but I hated how he would wait till his ship was 1 shot from being destroyed before returning fire.

PJO1966
12-22-2005, 12:21 PM
I'm glad I'm not the only one who hated Barclay.

AaronD
12-22-2005, 12:39 PM
No no. Kazon Ogla.

Now how does a guy like me manage to get laid so much?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Kazon was the name of the race, while Ogla was the name of a specific sect. ;) Now how does a guy like me... :p

lordrichter
12-22-2005, 01:47 PM
In no particular order

Reginald Barclay

I can't believe it went this far before someone mentioned this guy.
He infected both Voyager and TNG. If he appeared in DS9 I have blocked it out.

I think the actor is fine, probably did a standout job, but my God, that character.

Anything to do with Wesley also comes to mind, including the monster-babe and "The Traveller".

BetterYeti
12-22-2005, 02:03 PM
I actually kinda liked Barclay (especially the "fear of beaming" concept), but, OMG, how were we supposed to believe he was even a member of Star Fleet and didn't wash out of the academy?

JYoung
12-22-2005, 03:06 PM
BTW, I don't have a Top 5 list, but I do want to agree with others about Nurse Chapel. Regardless of how the actress got the job (I don't care), the very concept of that character annoyed me to no end. She was so insipid, with no apparent purpose other than fetching things for McCoy and then pining after Spock. NOBODY wanted her to get Spock. People who wrote fan fiction felt they could put Spock in bed with KIRK ( :confused: ) before they'd put Spock in bed with Chapel. That's gotta tell you something. Ugh.


You know as well (or probably better) than I that there is fan fiction out there where Spock and Chapel get it on.

BTW, seeing you post your lusty thoughts about Archer with your current avatar is quite jarring.

;)

JustAllie
12-22-2005, 03:52 PM
You know as well (or probably better) than I that there is fan fiction out there where Spock and Chapel get it on.I actually haven't seen any that I can recall. Of course it has been years since I went out in search of TOS fanfic. But I'm sure there is fan fiction out there somewhere in which Spock and anyone/anything get it on.

BTW, seeing you post your lusty thoughts about Archer with your current avatar is quite jarring.

;)But this post will be here after the holidays when my normal, leering avatar is back up. :D

JYoung
12-22-2005, 05:24 PM
I actually haven't seen any that I can recall. Of course it has been years since I went out in search of TOS fanfic. But I'm sure there is fan fiction out there somewhere in which Spock and anyone/anything get it on.

But this post will be here after the holidays when my normal, leering avatar is back up. :D


I'll say that it's a leering avatar. :D

JustAllie
12-22-2005, 10:40 PM
I'll say that it's a leering avatar. :Dhttp://longstreetfan.com/tcf/avatarjenga.jpg

I wish I could figure out a way to animate my eyebrows so that they waggle a bit. :D

EchoBravo
12-23-2005, 01:57 AM
Worst:

Kaiko

I hated all the episodes centered around my worst list.They didn't give Keiko much to work with, but for a minor character she never bothered me. In fact, she provided a strong supporting role in one of my favorite TNG episodes: Data's Day.

Good points about Reginald Barclay and the Kazon. I had blocked both from my memory. The Kazon made Voyager virtually unwatchable for its first few seasons. They're the item to watch for whether an episode is any good for me.

TNG: I look for raised uniform collars and Riker's facial hair. Any ep w/o both... Unwatchable.
DS9: Generally Sisko must not have hair
VOY: They have to be past Kazon space (Barclay didn't bother me on Voyager though, just TNG)

purwater
12-23-2005, 05:04 AM
[/b]Good points about Reginald Barclay and the Kazon. I had blocked both from my memory. The Kazon made Voyager virtually unwatchable for its first few seasons. They're the item to watch for whether an episode is any good for me.

TNG: I look for raised uniform collars and Riker's facial hair. Any ep w/o both... Unwatchable.
DS9: Generally Sisko must not have hair
VOY: They have to be past Kazon space (Barclay didn't bother me on Voyager though, just TNG)

I agree with all of the markers above. As a general rule it seems TNG, DS9, and VOY all improved around the season 3-4 mark. If Sisko has the bald with goatee look it's probably ok. I forgot how bad some of the early TNG episodes were until watching some of them the past couple weeks on Spike TV. Of course there were some good ones, but in general they didn't have a good "feel" until about season 3. As long as Ronald Moore is around it's usually pretty good.

Fish Man
12-23-2005, 09:31 AM
[/b]They didn't give Keiko much to work with, but for a minor character she never bothered me. In fact, she provided a strong supporting role in one of my favorite TNG episodes: Data's Day.


In "Disaster" Worf gets to deliver Keiko's baby. That was some great stuff!

No problems with Keiko here.

I also don't hate Barclay as much as some do. He gave the show a few good moments.

He was annoying as hell in "The Nth Degree" when he became a neurotic superbeing, but "Realm of Fear", which featured him, was a very good episode, IMHO.

And, if it wasn't for Barclay, we'd never have those great lines from the episode "Genesis":

Dr. Crusher: He transformed into a spider and now he has a disease named after him.
Counselor Troi: I think I'd better clear my calendar for the next few weeks.

:D

TheNumberSix
12-23-2005, 12:33 PM
I see some people listing their favorites. Any listing of Star Trek favorites that doesn't include Harcourt Fenton Mudd is just wrong, wrong, wrong! :P

My worst list:
Janeway
Troi
Wesley (But I don't blame Wil Wheaton)
Archer
Dax (All of them)

Royster
12-23-2005, 12:44 PM
There's only one answer....


KHAAAAAAAN!

oski87
12-23-2005, 11:35 PM
1. Ezri Dax
2. Ezri Dax
3. Ezri Dax
4. Ezri Dax
5. Ezri Dax

audiocrawford
12-24-2005, 03:03 AM
1. Pulaski from TNG - I like Diana Muldar, but Pulaski was just a bad, bad role. I really find most of Season 2 unwatchable because of her.

2. Worf/Data - Not because I dislike them, but because I feel they are highly over-rated. I never saw the deep conflict in Worf, and in fact thought it was a bit shallow. Same with Data. Yes, they had their yin/yang fighting-against-origins stuff, but I just didn't find it necessary to explore it as redundantly as I felt it was.

3. Barclay - While initially I did want to like him, there is only so much vacillation between annoyingly timid/socially inept and everyman/underdog one character can go through. Just that annoying speech impediment was enough to irritate me into putting him onto the list.

4. Kes - Blech. So glad they dropped her when they did. Completely, utterly, blank and useless. Wasn't even eye-candy for those who enjoy the female form.

5. Harry Kim - Only because he was criminally underused. After watching Voyager, about all I can say about him is, oh, yeah, he had some family back on Earth. That's about all I can recall about him. Didn't leave much of an impression.

As to favorites, it seems that all of my faves made it to "worst" in other people's lists:

1. Tasha Yar - Just inexplicably loved her from day one. The only pity is that she wasn't a full cast member past season 1 (which is an exceptionally weak season to begin with), and she is the ONLY thing I'd ever stop to watch even part of a Season 1 ep for. Her return roles made me so happy - those are among the best of Trek to me.

2. Lwaxana Troi - I really enjoy characters that "say it like it is", i.e. Cordi or Anya on Buffy. I think she brought a levity to the show that it occasionally was missing; I don't know how anyone can deny the hilarious impact she had on Picard whenever they met.

3. John Archer - for nothing other than the tight blue nylon underpants. MEOW!

AC

EchoBravo
12-24-2005, 07:10 AM
1. Ezri Dax
2. Ezri Dax
3. Ezri Dax
4. Ezri Dax
5. Ezri Dax
1. Ezri Dax... is adorable.
2. Ezri Dax... is the girl next door personified.
3. Ezri Dax... had some great episodes opposite Worf.
4. Ezri Dax... carried a great 2-parter on her own.
5. Ezri Dax... was a more believable counselor than Deanna Troi from Day One.

Fixinated! :D

cwerdna
12-28-2005, 10:13 PM
I had a hard time coming up w/5 until I started reading the thread. Here are my five worst, oops six:
Wesley
Kes
Troi's mother
Neelix
All the Kais [DS9 was a pretty ho-hum series until the end]
Troi (in season 1 of TNG, she was so much better after they toned down her psychobabble)

Regarding some the other worsts: I liked Ezri, she was cute and she had a funny relationship w/Worf. There's NO WAY Data could be on someone's worst. He was the best character on TNG! Barclay was kinda amusing, certainly not a worst. Worf was one of the best characters on DS9. He sometimes got some of the best lines.

kiljoy
12-29-2005, 03:22 AM
I disagree with you strongly about the Kais (and I think you mean to say Vedics, since there was only Kai Opaka and Kai Wynn) and about DS9 being "a pretty ho-hum series until the end."

First off, yes the religious order of Bajor was kind of annoying, but I think it was not only a central point of the show (what with Sisko being the Emissary), but also in the fact that you need enemies and foils. Without Kai (and formerly Vedic) Wynn, you had Bajor mostly behind Sisko and Starfleet. Wynn sets that relationship on edge. Then you add in that the Bajoran story is a very religious one, told from the perspective of the secular Starfleet. You've got Kai Wynn actively working against them, the Pa'h Wraiths obviously causing problems, the Prophets (Wormhole Aliens) playing a major role, and the Vedics Bareil and Shakaar courting Major Kira. The fact that Wynn was played so well is why you hate her. But she needs to be there. The argument that the Vedics don't need to be there could be made.

As for DS9 being ho-hum, I just don't see it. You have so many things going on, and going on so well, that ho-hum is anything but the way I'd describe it. I'd go further and say that DS9 found its legs sooner than TNG did. By the end of season 2, they had introduced The Dominion, gotten nemesis Wynn to Kai, established The Maquis, delved deeper into Garak's past (and shown us Enabran Tain), had introduced the Mirror Universe, and had four or five excellent standalone eps (Whispers, Shadowplay, Tribunal, and Paradise). By season 3, DS9 was well on it's way to being the best Trek ever. Compared to TNG, when you really didn't have much to show by season 3, I think it's hard to say DS9 started out slow. I honestly think most of that comes from comparing season one and two DS9 episodes to season six and seven of TNG.

Tony

vman41
12-29-2005, 01:12 PM
I actually kinda liked Barclay (especially the "fear of beaming" concept), but, OMG, how were we supposed to believe he was even a member of Star Fleet and didn't wash out of the academy?

I picture him having relatives in high places.

5thcrewman
12-29-2005, 03:46 PM
...All the Kais [DS9 was a pretty ho-hum series until the end]
....
All the Weyouns were good! :D

twm01
01-02-2006, 08:54 AM
In no particular order:

1. Wesley Crusher
2. Wesley Crusher
3. Wesley Crusher
4. Wesley Crusher
5. Wesley Crusher