Missing the first few minutes of recordings

[kmp14]

AHH! It is so frustrating. Has anyone else been missing the first couple of minutes of recordings? I will go to watch a recorded show, hit play, and the first couple of minutes will not be recorded. The time bar also reflects this by the green section not going all the way back to the beginning of the show. For example, the info for a 30 minute show says 30 Minutes, but it only recorded 28.

Is there a way to correct it?

[Tivo Rules]

Not after the fact, but you should have an option to tape 2 or 5 minutes (or so) before or after the show when you first schedule it or on a Season Pass.

[kmp14]

I schedule it to record the whole show (obviously) but it only records part of it.

For example, a 30 minute show starts at 7pm, but on my tivo, it starts recording at 7:02pm, and I miss the first 2 minutes of the show. The time bar shows that the show actually was 30 minutes long, but only 28 minutes of the time bar is green, since that is all the tivo recorded. Aghhhh!

[bluntedat420]

I recently had an hour-long show recorded that only showed 50 minutes of 'green bar'. When I watched the show (expecting it to give me the 'delete now' screen 10 minutes before the end of the show, like the recent Medium premiere), I got some pixellation about 25 minutes into the show, and then some stuttering, and then the show reappeard just fine, albeit the scene shift was confusing (it seemed like I missed some plot lines). It turned out, I lost 10 minutes of the middle of a show. I've never seen that before!

Todd

[Jeffner76]

My Tivo has been doing this lately too! Every once in a while, I'll be watching a show and a few minutes before the end, the "delete this recording now" screen pops up. No! I want to watch the rest of my show! Any idea why this is happening? It doesn't seem to be show or network specific - just random.

[tbb1226]

I've been experiencing the exact problem that kmp14 described. The recording is fine, except for the missing first 2-3 minutes.

It's happened quite frequently lately - mostly on the Letterman show, but other shows also. I have no idea why it happens, but I think it's only on OTA channels.

[videojanitor]

I find this happens quite frequently as well. I THINK, but I am not certain, that it almost always seems to happen at a point where both tuners are in use, and one of them needs to change the channel.

For instance, on Monday nights, I record CSI: Miami, and Medium at 10pm, followed immediately by Letterman at 11pm (yes, it airs at 11pm here due to a nutty CBS affiliate). I can virtually always count on missing the first two minutes of Letterman, even though I have no "extra" time padded into any of the recordings. It's the same problem as described above -- the TiVo "bar" shows that it started recording at 11:00, but the "green" portion starts two minutes into the show, and that indeed is where the recording starts. :confused:

[susanandmark]

I've been experiencing the exact problem that kmp14 described. The recording is fine, except for the missing first 2-3 minutes.

It's happened quite frequently lately - mostly on the Letterman show, but other shows also. I have no idea why it happens, but I think it's only on OTA channels.

I'm also having the "missing minutes" problem at the beginning of shows, in addition to a few other issues (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=264062), and, at least for me, it does NOT just happen just on OTA channels. I've had the same experience with shows recorded from sat. too.

[ChofuHS]

It has been happening to me recently for some reason???????

[jtseltmann]

AH, I am having the same issue and it bit me last night again. I had an issue with SURFACE on NBC the other night and finally with LOST last night. The show began taping just fine but then the show or green line stops at 9:50pm. Though the show says it taped to 1hr it did not. My wife and I are thinking it is because of a recording conflict at 10pm because we are recording shows back to back and on more than one channel. The time for the show I was recording at 10 actually said 9:59pm - 11pm. The recorder did now show a conflict until it actually tried to start one. At one point i looked at my Now Playing List and had THREE red lights showing recording?!?!?!
This is driving me nuts! It has to do with the dame tv times showing as recording one minute early! I know none of my Season Passes are set up to record early or late. They all say to record "on time". There seems to be some major timing issues with this one minute thing. Some folks are talking about two minutes but I am only see one minute shifts. I am frustrated that my 999$ piece of sh_t machine is now crapping out and screwing up my TV life. This NEVER happened last year though I did have mysterious reboots twice when recording two HD Programs. The 10 minute time loss and blown recordings has happened at least 2-3 times.

Anyone have any suggestions???

[Kevin L]

I don't know why the first two minutes are missing, and I haven't seen that on mine. I have seen the missing time from the end. IOW, a one hour show only shows the green bar filling 90% or so of the time bar. This has always been from loss of signal. When I see the green bar not filling up the time bar, I know I'm going to have a crappy recording. Happened to me on the Season Premier of West Wing. There was so much pixelization and stuttering that it was unwatchable. Plus, the green bar only filled about 2/3 of the time bar, meaning I lost at least ten to twelve minutes of the show. :mad:

One thing I do on shows that MUST record, because they don't rerun (like Survivor and Amazing Race) is to record it on two different HR10s, and if possible, record one using the sat and the other OTA.

[tomkludy]

What a few of you are describing is the result of signal loss. If your recording has pixelation, skipped minutes, and the green bar doesn't go all the way to the end, check your signal strength. You probably experienced rain fade or some other kind of signal loss.

What the original poster is experiencing (and myself, and a couple of others as well) is that the HDTiVo simply doesn't tune to the channel at the proper time. It doesn't start recording until a couple of minutes past the proper time.

I've seen this happen while watching live TV: I can be watching TV expecting the TiVo to switch channels and start recording at 7:00pm, but it doesn't "wake up" and switch over until 7:02pm.

I am certain this is a software problem. It doesn't happen every time, but it has been happening quite frequently lately.

[jtseltmann]

I would say my problem is a signal loss but this has happened at the exact same time on two different nights and two different networks? I find that hard to believe. Also...I tend to watch the recording as it is playing..so i start watching say at 9:20 to know I can watch almost live without commercials. What I notice is that the time on the clock says 9:55pm...and LOST is still playing/recording (supposedly) and I am watching the recording. When i go to forward through some commercials...I see that the green line just stops at 50 minutes. Then I freak out because I know it is still on and the clock says 9:55pm. Then I go to LIVE tv and the LOST show is still on, no signal loss. Then I try to go back and watch my show/recording and it can't display it or find the recording. Then after juggling around and looking at the recorder showing three red dots which is impossible because I dont' have an OTA atenna...it finally pops a conflict error with a show that is scheduled to run from 9:59 to 11pm...and whammo...its all screwy. I deleted the scheduled recording (the show that was in conflict) of a show AFTER it recorded the full show. Now when I went to the "now playing" list the show LOST was able to be found again...and as I watched the 50 minute recording of this show (still lost the last 10 minutes)...the HR10 just rebooted. Now this of course f'd up the next recordings of Invasion etc.

The problem I am seeing is not a signal loss. I have verified this. I know what I just wrote above seems quite convoluted...because it was quite a cluster F last night when it was happening. The missing last 10 minutes of a show has happened for me now three times. Numb3ers, LOST and Surface have all had conflicts.

What I am seeing as a common thread is the shows (most all on NCB so far) that have the timing set to record from 9:59 to 11 pm instead of 10. "ER" is one and I think there is one other that I can't remember now...

I'll keep testing my thoughts but who knows...

[duanej]

This has discussed to death on other threads. It's the time on the satellite itself that controls when things start recording, and it looks like the time has drifted a bit on one (or more) of the sats. DTV need to reset the time to fix this.

[jtseltmann]

duanej,
My appologies then for beating this dead horse but then again...that wasn't my main concern. The fact that only a few shows have this problem scared me a bit but truly i was trying to see if it was the culprit concerning my screwed up recordings etc. That was my main issue...trying to identify what caused the lost recordings and time.

thanks anyway.

[AbMagFab]

The problem is DirecTV satellite time. The reason it seems random, is the Tivo gets it's time depending on what satellite's it's tuned into right then. So you could even have two Tivo's in the house, and one could be fine while the other missed a couple minutes, because the one missing minutes was tuned into a different sat at the time.

That being said, I think some of this is due to lag on the HD Tivo as well with changing channels.

[jbradway]

Just a wild thought. Since the TIVO takes a few minutes to process changes to season passes and other recording stuff, maybe it takes a few minutes to find the oldest eligible show that it can delete in order to make room for your new recording. Those with full drives might fall victim to the slow decision making time.

[jtseltmann]

Thank you for your suggestions...I'll keep trying to clean up and watch carefully!

[Gerryex]

Hi ALL,

I know this has been discussed before and the reason is supposed to have something to do with the clock setting that is coming in from the satellites. But I was watching something live on the HD Tivo, and was just waiting for the tuner to switch to the channel that was supposed to start recording on the hour. I forget the show and the exact time, but the Tivo's time display showed it to be exactly on the hour (which was the CORRECT time as the show was starting) BUT the recording did NOT start. Instead it started at :02, but again the Tivo's time DID show the :02.

I could understand if there was some problem with the clock coming from the satellite, but then wouldn't the recording start at the Tivo's time of :00 which, because of the satellite clock error, would in reality be :02. Instead the Tivo clock IS showing the correct time of :00 but does NOT start recording until :02!!!

Thanks,
Gerry

[jportnoy]

Instead the Tivo clock IS showing the correct time of :00 but does NOT start recording until :02!!!

Yes, it's not the satellite time. I watched live last night while the HDTivo was supposed to start two shows at 10PM EDT. It sat doing nothing until 10:02 when it started to record. It also did not give me a warning at 9:59 like usual saying it needed to change the channel in order to record. There is a bug that started recently that is causing this. Was there a software update recently?

[Eben]

I'm not saying I have an answer, but since these units can see two different sats at the same time, is it possible the two sats could have different times? Wouldn't that confuse the hell out of the receiver?

[Gerryex]

Yes, it's not the satellite time. I watched live last night while the HDTivo was supposed to start two shows at 10PM EDT. It sat doing nothing until 10:02 when it started to record. It also did not give me a warning at 9:59 like usual saying it needed to change the channel in order to record. There is a bug that started recently that is causing this. Was there a software update recently?


Hi jportnoy,

Yes, I agree with you! Now how do we go about finding out how to get it fixed?

Gerry

[grins]

I'm also having the two-minute hole at the beginning of the recording problem. Are all of your hdtivos (those of you experiencing the hole at the beginning) stock, or modded? I have two disks in mine, and I've done some minor hacking (enabling telnet and ftp server is all), so I'm running a hacked version of 3.1.5, I think release e.

any more info?

[Gerryex]

I'm also having the two-minute hole at the beginning of the recording problem. Are all of your hdtivos (those of you experiencing the hole at the beginning) stock, or modded? I have two disks in mine, and I've done some minor hacking (enabling telnet and ftp server is all), so I'm running a hacked version of 3.1.5, I think release e.

any more info?


Hi grins,

Mine is a plane jane, completely untouched and un-modded unit straight from the box and the case has never been opened!!

Gerry

[txfeinbergs]

The delay has nothing to do with different times on the satellites. It is directly due to the fact that the TIVO is sllloooowww and underpowered. If you already have one show recording (especially a high definition show), it can sometimes take up to 2 minutes for the TIVO to start recording on the second tuner.

[AbMagFab]

I'm also having the two-minute hole at the beginning of the recording problem. Are all of your hdtivos (those of you experiencing the hole at the beginning) stock, or modded? I have two disks in mine, and I've done some minor hacking (enabling telnet and ftp server is all), so I'm running a hacked version of 3.1.5, I think release e.

any more info?

Both of mine are modded. However the only one showing problems is running 'e'. The other one, 'f', doesn't have any problems. And they are mostly recording the same things.

Maybe I'll upgrade my older one to 'f' and see what happens...

[grins]

Thanks, AgMagFab! Would you let us know? I'd love to think the fix is that simple.

And if it works, will you tell me how to upgrade a modded TiVo? ;-)

edited to add:

Wait, un-modded hdtivos are running 3.1.5f now, isn't that correct? So the fact that your f version is not experiencing the holes is not because of f, but rather something else, right? otherwise the un-modded hdtivos would not be seeing the problem.

[Gerryex]

Wait, un-modded hdtivos are running 3.1.5f now, isn't that correct? So the fact that your f version is not experiencing the holes is not because of f, but rather something else, right? otherwise the un-modded hdtivos would not be seeing the problem.

Hi grins,

Yes, my un-modded HD Tivo IS running the "f" version of the software, so that version does not seem to fix the problem.



The delay has nothing to do with different times on the satellites. It is directly due to the fact that the TIVO is sllloooowww and underpowered. If you already have one show recording (especially a high definition show), it can sometimes take up to 2 minutes for the TIVO to start recording on the second tuner.

Hi txfeinbergs,

This is interesting and it had never occurred to me. One of my BIGGEST complaints is that the HD Tivo is so slow when setting up a recording or even more so when setting up a Season Pass. If this problem is simply that the system is just slow to start the scheduled recording, then there may NOT be any fix if, and until, we get that major new version which has been referred to as 6.2, which is supposed to speed things up considerably. However, there has been very little info coming out of D* as to when it will come out for the HD Tivo, IF EVER!! Remember that the HD Tivos will eventually be swapped out for a new MPEG-4 HD DVR when the new satellites are up and running. So VERY little effort has been going into keeping the HD Tivos' software up to date.


While the HD Tivo works very well - WHEN IT WORKS - it is very disappointing in that it is so slow, prone to miss the first few minutes of shows, and also freezes up at times. One needs to have confidence in a DVR so that you can be assured that it will do what you ask it to. With the above problems, I'm, unfortunately, starting to loose confidence in mine!!

Gerry

[oldskoolboarder]

My recording of Invasion last nite had this problem. I recorded from ABCW, not OTA.

[steady teddy]

I found this thread through a search because I'm having the same problem. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't the only one experiencing this annoyance.

The recording usually starts one minute late. And from what I have seen so far, it might only be happening when I record off my local OTA antenna, but I'm not sure. I can't recall any satellite programming starting late but it's happened to me quite a bit when I record some of the CBS and ABC shows like CSI, CSI Miami, and Lost.

And the tuner is already set to that channel before the show's start time. I've had this intermittent problem for the last month or so.

[steady teddy]

Why do I bother? :rolleyes: Why??!! :mad:

I just wasted an hour of my life on the phone with D* tech support to explain this problem. They told me that I could "fix" this problem by changing my record settings to start recording the program one minute earlier. I then asked her how in the world this could be considered a fix since this would cause a recording conflict if I wanted to record two programs one hour earlier. She couldn't understand what I was trying to explain to her. I told her that her fix was not a fix at all.

Then she suggested that I could change the setting on my Tivo clock to one minute earlier. :eek: I told her that there was no problem with the clock setting on my Tivo and that if I changed the time, it would cause all programs to record shows one minute early and stop recording one minute early. She still could not understand this conundrum.

Does D* think their customers are complete idiots? Maybe I am because after talking with tech support today, I feel a lot dumber.

Does anyone know if there is a phone # strictly for D* Tivo tech support?

[notmestl]

Jumping in here also because I just started having this issue on my HDTivo as well. It began happening as recently as two weeks ago.
I have noticed it only occurs when recording two HD shows starting at the same time. It does not occur when recording only one HD show or one HD and one SD show starting at the same time. It is now all the time. So, no it is not Sat time or Tivo time or any of that other some such. It is more likely due to the slowness of the Tivo itself, but why it has just now begun happening? donno.....

On a side note, my HDMI failed at about the same time..... hmmm....

[steady teddy]

On a side note, my HDMI failed at about the same time..... hmmm....


I'm not using HDMI so that's just a coincidence.

I suggested to D* that since everyone seemed to be experiencing this at around the same time that perhaps it is a software issue. But it was like talking to a wall.

[susanandmark]

We actually observed this last night. My husband was watching football. The TiVo asked to change the channel to record "Medium." We said OK. The channel changed and then, one or two minutes later, the recording started.

I have to agree with others that attributed this to the TiVo's own slowness (computer processing power). I hadn't thought of it before, but it makes sense. It's not a good thing. But it is logical and, if true, likely unfixable without a processor upgrade.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about that. I'm far from a nuts-and-bolts computer genuis. Perhaps more efficent software would tax the hardware less and eliminate the issue, but I'm not going to hold my breath, as it appears we're unlikely to get any software upgrade/bug fixes in the future, and, if we did, it would likely be more complex code, not a simplified version.

[rcurrier]

The only problem with the "processing power" theory is that I've had mine for over a year and the problem just started showing up within the last month or so (actually since the start of the new season). I can state that the problem is not solely related to HD recordings (it happens recording the local news). Both tuners were on HD stations and I was never prompted/warned about the other tuner needing to change channels.

The paranoid among us at work think this is either the networks doing "something" to discourage PVR use (which is why ER starts at 9:59) or D* messing with our boxes so we'll want to switch to the NDS box.

[Gerryex]

The only problem with the "processing power" theory is that I've had mine for over a year and the problem just started showing up within the last month or so (actually since the start of the new season). I can state that the problem is not solely related to HD recordings (it happens recording the local news). Both tuners were on HD stations and I was never prompted/warned about the other tuner needing to change channels.

The paranoid among us at work think this is either the networks doing "something" to discourage PVR use (which is why ER starts at 9:59) or D* messing with our boxes so we'll want to switch to the NDS box.

I was starting to get this problem along with one random re-boot. Since I didn't have too much left to watch I did a complete Clear and Delete overnight. While its only been a couple of days since that, it now appears to work much faster and I have not had the 1 or 2 minute record delay.

Since this problem (and the system reset problems) are starting to crop up more often, I'm guessing that many of the units are now a year, or more, old and the disk is probably very fragmented and the system is just running very slow. After the Clear and Delete, while you must enter in all of your SP's they are accepted VERY quickly. Maybe this is just like installing Windows every so often just to get rid of all the detris that accumulates over time.

Gerry

[GadgetFreak]

Count me as another victim of the slow-poke HD Tivo. Mine is only 6 weeks old. I love the HD but miss having folders and acceptable response time. Oh..and having my recordings start on time.

[Sir_winealot]

Count me as another victim of the slow-poke HD Tivo. Mine is only 6 weeks old. I love the HD but miss having folders and acceptable response time. Oh..and having my recordings start on time.


Wow, after only 6 weeks? Do you have a lot of SP's?

I'm entering my 4th week....and it's still almost as quick as day 1. I know it's just a matter of time, but only 6 weeks...sheesh. :rolleyes:

[boiler11]

I've had this problem on a couple shows also. My box is modded and has been for a year. I installed endpadplus about a month ago and configured it to add 1 minute to the beginning and end of each show. Note that I didn't set that up because of this problem, strictly because I always missed the last 30-60 seconds of the Simpsons.

This is the first time it's happened to me. We're about 2 weeks behind on our TV watching, so I don't know if it has stopped or not.

I don't think you can blame this on the slow processor. It seems to have happened to a bunch of people at the same time. Logical reasoning points the finger at external causes.

Sean.

[txfeinbergs]

Actually, I am still a firm believer of the processing power as the root cause. The reason it has started happening to a bunch of us all at once (at the start of the new season) is... well, this is the first season that actually has a bunch of decent high def to record in the first place and it is the first season I ever had to try and record two high def shows I actually wanted to watch at the same time.

[kmp14]

Why do I bother? :rolleyes: Why??!! :mad:

I just wasted an hour of my life on the phone with D* tech support

Your post quantifies my fear of EVER calling dtv with technical issues. Usually we know more than them, and they don't understand the issue. I guess that is true of most tech support.

[DanKeeffe]

Actually, I am still a firm believer of the processing power as the root cause...

I tend to lean towards that conclusion, as well. I was having the same problem with missing the first few minutes of recordings, and as a last resort before sending my box back did a "clear and delete all," reformatting the hard drive to factory conditions. That was about three weeks ago, and I have not had any problems since then. Additionally, the unit has been MUCH snappier, so that setting up new season passes or recordings only takes a few seconds, versus the 5-10 minutes it was taking before the reformat. The unit just seems to get bogged down after a while, and the missing recordings is but one manifestation of this.

Reformatting the hard drive hardly seems like an optimal solution (we had quite the TV marathon to get everything off we wanted to watch before hand), but it may be worth a try.

Dan

[Cabinwood]

I'll jump in here to say mine has done it a few times in the past few weeks. I question it being the processing power as nothing has changed, mine has been recording both tuners in HD in prime time since I first got it (when they first came out). It's only recently that this has started happening.

[boiler11]

I can't say definitively that it's not the processor, but here's some data. After closer inspection, I found out that I've only had this problem on 3 shows. All 3 were on the same Thursday night. However, the Thursday before and after I did not have the problem.


--------------------------
Thursday 9/29/2005
--------------------------

Alias 8:00-9:00 pm OTA HD NO PROBLEMS
Will & Grace 8:30-9:00 pm SAT SD NO PROBLEMS
Everwood 9:00-10:00 pm OTA HD NO PROBLEMS
The Apprentice 9:00-10:00 pm SAT SD NO PROBLEMS

--------------------------
Thursday 10/6/2005
--------------------------

Alias 8:00-9:00 pm OTA HD NO PROBLEMS
Will & Grace 8:30-9:00 pm OTA HD Missing First Minute
Everwood 9:00-10:00 pm OTA HD Missing First Minute
The Apprentice 9:00-10:00 pm SAT SD Missing First 2 Minutes

--------------------------
Thursday 10/13/2005
--------------------------

Alias 8:00-9:00 pm OTA HD NO PROBLEMS
Will & Grace 8:30-9:00 pm OTA HD NO PROBLEMS
Everwood 9:00-10:00 pm OTA HD NO PROBLEMS
The Apprentice 9:00-10:00 pm SAT SD NO PROBLEMS


Note that I switched the Will & Grace season pass from SAT SD to OTA HD between 9/29 and 10/6, but all shows recorded fine on 10/13. Unfortunately, I have no idea what the second tuner was tuned to when Will & Grace started recording on each of these nights.

[GadgetFreak]

Wow, after only 6 weeks? Do you have a lot of SP's?

I'm entering my 4th week....and it's still almost as quick as day 1. I know it's just a matter of time, but only 6 weeks...sheesh. :rolleyes:

Depends on who you ask...my wife thinks I watch too much TV and I probably do. 20 season passes -- but within this forum I probably fall in the middle to the low end. ;)

I do have suggestions turned on...I catch a couple of the kiddie shows, but primarily use them as a free space indicator. My performance time is not as bad as it was on my SD DirecTivos before the folder update, but that update made my old Tivos very fast.

[GadgetFreak]

I can't say definitively that it's not the processor, but here's some data. After closer inspection, I found out that I've only had this problem on 3 shows. All 3 were on the same Thursday night. However, the Thursday before and after I did not have the problem.



Note that I switched the Will & Grace season pass from SAT SD to OTA HD between 9/29 and 10/6, but all shows recorded fine on 10/13. Unfortunately, I have no idea what the second tuner was tuned to when Will & Grace started recording on each of these nights.

I also had the problem during Arrested Development -- last episode of September, don't remember the exact date. I was recording it is SD, not HD.

[Rcam10]

I really doubt its just processing power slowness causing this problem. Almost always when people start reporting the same problem with consumer electronic devices, its normally either some kind of defect or some outside thing that can affect everyone.

Mine is around 10 months old and currently its only doing it on one recording, Lost. It started around 2 weeks ago, nothing else is being recorded at that time and its on the national feed.

So far its not doing this any other time, even the times when I am recording two HD channels at once.

So, based on my experience with electronics, I find it very hard to believe so many just happen to start having this problem at around the same time frame, and its just because of the slow processing. There is no doubt this thing is way too slow, but I just don't think that started showing up all of a sudden for so many. If it is then its still a type of defect.

[miss_my_utv]

I think I've seen the "late start" thing, but haven't really paid close attention (they weren't programs where it really mattered).

I know I've seen several programs where the recording ended a bit early. And they weren't programs where they might get pushed out due to an earlier program running long (e.g., live sporting event). They were all SD.

Stock box, about a month old, not many SPs.

I haven't done anything to further "characterize" the issue - only observed it.

Any similar experiences, theories, fixes (other than padding the ending of all programs), etc.?

[DVDKingdom]

I had this "Late Start" problem today. For me the root cause was the Satellite Time being off. I tested this using an atomic clock. My TiVo displayed 8:58 while my atomic clock read 9:00 PM, this almost caused me to miss part of my 9:00 recording.

[Dan the TiVo Man]

Well for one thing it's not just HDTV receivers that are recording late. Secondly, Dtivo's have been recording on 2 tuners at the same time for years so no, it's not the processor. Thirdly, my Dtivo time is about 2 seconds fast compared to the officical US time web site so no, they won't be sending the clock repair boy up to the satellite to set the current time.

Just like all the other mysterious glitches that have come and gone over the years, this recording late glitch will disappear and neither D* nor TiVo will ever admit that the problem ever existed.

But I would recommend that everyone call customer service and let them know you are having this problem so that they might fix it more quickly.

[reeseg]

I had the same problem with late starts. It got to the point where some shows, including CSI Miami were starting up to 3 min. late.

I went into settings and removed the check mark next to...

Get time from Satellite

Haven't had any problems since. YMMV.

[jbstix]

I had the same problem with late starts. It got to the point where some shows, including CSI Miami were starting up to 3 min. late.

I went into settings and removed the check mark next to...

Get time from Satellite

Haven't had any problems since. YMMV.

What Tivo Box are you using? The HDTivos don't have the "Get time from Satellite" option. I don't think DTivos have that option-no way to change time.
My belief is that the more bogged down the hd gets, (with recordings and general use) the worse the hd and the Tivo itself performs. I've had my HDTivo for a little over a year now, and it has the most recordings on it thus far, and I have been experiencing this problem off and on.
One option is to try "defragging" the hd(s) using a program called SpinRite, and see what happens. A friend of mine used this program on both of his HDTivo 250g hard drives, and it cleared up many problems. Be warned, it will take a pretty long time to finish, depending on the size of the drive.
I just added "Endpadplus" so we'll see if that helps with the recording start time.
I set it to start (when possible) 2 minutes early, and end on time.
It would be cool to figure out a solution to this problem... or just deal with it until the new Mpeg4 boxes come out...

[AbMagFab]

Spinrite has nothing to do with "defragging", it goes through the hard disk, identifies disk errors, and tries to fix them.

If running spinrite improved things, then you likely have a failing hard drive and it will only get worse again.

[Kevin L]

Like Ab said, SpinRite does not defrag. And from what I understand, Linux doesn't suffer the same defrag issues that Windows does. I also don't know how much fragmentation would be a problem with the large files DVRs record. When you delete programs, the file is pretty large and would free up large blocks of the drive.

[AbMagFab]

Plus, Tivo uses some rediculous block size, like 100MB or something, knowing that their recordings are always 1GB+. So they have very few fragments anyway.

[Kevin L]

Right. Windows/DOS users (of which I am one) worry far too much about fragmentation. Even on Windows machines, with the speed of today's hard drives, testing has shown defragging adds very little to a drive's performance.

[jbstix]

I was just trying to offer an option (that has worked for someone) as an option for something that folks can try.
Whether Spinrite "defrags" or fixes disk errors is not the issue, the issue is trying different methods to fix or improve the problem.
I offered this method because a fellow HDTivo owner that I know was having a lot of issues, and after running Spinrite, all those issues improved or went away.
He doesn't have a failing hard drive, and since using the program, the issues have not returned.
Just an option to try, not a definite solution.
You guys sound very intelligent, what method would you suggest trying???
Good luck to everyone dealing with this (yet another) ridiculous/annoying problem.

[Kevin L]

Hi, JB.

Suggesting SpinRite was fine. It's a good program, and can ressurect some drives that are in trouble. I've had copies since v2 up to the current v6. It can make a difference on an ailing disk.

The only reason I corrected the defrag comment is time to time people post questions about defragging their DVRs, and I didn't want them think this was a way to do it. Of course, there's no reason to defrag the drives anyway.

That said, I have SpinRite and have never used it to help a troubled DVR. If I have a DVR that's acting flaky, and I suspect the HD, I either replace the unit or the hard drive. I don't think it's worth the time to SpinRite a DVR drive and continue using it.

[Cody21]

From what I can read here, the "issue" of Late Starts is still plaguing many of us and there is no true and tried solution to fixing it. I am having this occur more often than I can stand. I don't have that many recorded shows "saved" (like 9). My unit is 15 months old. ugh .... :mad:

[deffman]

I have had this problem for a while also. I finally asked a few people I know with DVR's if they knew what the problem is. I was told that once you have a program saved you can go to the to do list, select the show and next to the record as planned button is an options button. Click on that and there is options for start and stop. The default for both says on time. You can change those to start early and end later like you can with the season pass. I'm not sure what other people recievers are like or if that is an option, but I have the RCA DVR80 and there is that option in the to do list.

[Kevin L]

Welcome to TCF, deffman.

The only problem with your workaround is the potential for missing entire recordings. For example. Let's say you have two shows you want to record on a tuner, one that runs from 8:00 to 9:00 PM, and the other from 9:00 PM to 10:00 PM. If you set up your recording to start early, the 9:00 PM to 10:00 PM show will not record, because it now conflicts with the 8:00 to 9:00 PM show.

Unfortunately, an unmodified TiVo isn't smart enough to handle that conflict intelligently. It should resolve the conflict by starting the 9:00 PM to 10:00 PM show as soon as the 8:00 to 9:00 PM show stops recording.

[leftcoastdave]

From what I can read here, the "issue" of Late Starts is still plaguing many of us and there is no true and tried solution to fixing it. I am having this occur more often than I can stand. I don't have that many recorded shows "saved" (like 9). My unit is 15 months old. ugh .... :mad:

This late start problem may be old news to many on this forum. There have been several threads suggesting that the problem is software and several other threads theorizing it is the result of a failing hard drive.

Suggested solutions ranged from replacing the hard drive(s) to clearing off old content or doing a clear and delete. From what I could see, the results for those who tried the clear and deletes have been inconsistent but folks replacing hard drives have reported no further problems.

Initially I tried removing older content and obsolete SP's and this cured the problem for about 7 days. Shortly thereafter I encountered what seemed like endless system resets during playback, live TV and recording events. Previously the resets were random and sprinkled in with late starts.

After reading what seems like hundreds of posts on this subject I regretfully came to the conclusion that my problems were likely caused by a failing hard file. At this juncture I collaborated with tech support at WeaKnees and I sent both the factory and upgraded hard files in my 19 month old modded unit to them. Both passed diagnostics leaving the situation still in doubt. They did tell me the diags are not a 100% indicator of drive health and they offered to replace the expansion drive with a newer unit since it was barely out of warranty.

Being a belt and suspenders kind of guy, I decided to replace both drives and to go back through a complete guided setup. I did so two weeks ago and for what it is worth, the system resets have stopped and I have not had one late start event since the drive replacement.

The solution in my situation was to replace the hardfiles. I am doubtful the problem resides with the satellite clock or with the software because my second, albeit newer, upgraded HR10-250 has never shown any of the symptoms described herein.

One other interesting item of note is that the problem of four to five minute delays in adding SP's and recording events has gone away following the hard file replacements. Previously I had under 30 SP's and when I would add a new recording or a new SP, it would take an average of four minutes to accept the new event, whereas now with 20 events, additions are as fast as when I first activated the unit in June, 2004.

Maybe there is something to this theory that corrupted software from old events might be slowing the units down.

[rgreenpc]

I am a victim of the dread missing minutes...

The only time I seem to get them though is when I am recording 2 HD shows at the same time and they back up to other shows....

The biggest offender is ABC on Sunday nights...

For some reason Grey's Anatomy starts 1 - 2 minutes late and Desperate Housewives goes an extra minute or 2.

I am going to monitor it very closely this week and see what happens.

I have about 18 season passes ( 95% are HD )

I have only noticed the issue start in the last 8 - 10 weeks.

****
My only question: If the TIVO thinks its 8:58 it won't record the show that is starting at 9:00 even though its on, correct? It doesn't look for SMPTE code changes or anything ( does HD even still have SMPTE code? )

OK.... thats 2 questions.

[Its_Kemosabe]

[QUOTE=leftcoastdave]

Being a belt and suspenders kind of guy, I decided to replace both drives and to go back through a complete guided setup. I did so two weeks ago and for what it is worth, the system resets have stopped and I have not had one late start event since the drive replacement.
QUOTE]

Did you replace the drives with Weakness plug and play's or did you buy new drives use the upgrade instructions to replace them.?

Thanks ..................

[leftcoastdave]

Did you replace the drives with Weakness plug and play's or did you buy new drives use the upgrade instructions to replace them.?

Thanks ..................

I replaced them both with a WeaKnees plug and play drive set of twin 300GB drives.

[newsposter]

everyone still having the problem? Having that little bit of 'blank' space on the bar and missing something like the start of law and order is a bit disconcerting.

[cowart]

everyone still having the problem?

Last night I lost a few minutes from the middle of an OTA show. At one point in the middle of the blank spot in the recording, the screen went blue and an error message appeared, reading "Video Alert" and some numbers. It was only on screen for a few seconds.

[videojanitor]

everyone still having the problem?

Yep. Happens to me on almost every show.

[leftcoastdave]

everyone still having the problem? Having that little bit of 'blank' space on the bar and missing something like the start of law and order is a bit disconcerting.

As stated in a couple of posts above, I replaced both the drives on my failing 18 month old HR10-250 on December 1, 2005.

I can report that I have had zero late starts, zero system reboots, and zero partial recordings in the two months since.

Dave
Feb 2, 2006

[videojanitor]

Dave,

Thanks for reposting that info -- I may just have to bite the bullet and order a new drive. Although missing the first minute or so of a show is kind of annoying, I do get spontaneous reboots every now again (I'd say, once or twice a month), and that is a real drag. Never had either of these problems until about six months ago ...

[newsposter]

I'm wondering though, with a relatively wide spread problem across this thread (ok not like 100s of us but you get my drift), how all these drives could be going at the same time? I guess if we are all using the same original drives it's possible. But boy does this stink.

I do need to upgrade but i'm cheap :)....waiting for even a bigger dip in prices.

[boiler11]

I really don't think it's a hard drive problem. I have my unit hacked and I can see the logs. I have occasionally had a hard drive error, but not at the same time as the "missing first few minutes" problem. I haven't had the "missing first few minutes" problem in a while.

You may have a failing hard drive, but I don't believe it's the cause of the "missing first few minutes" problem.

[txfeinbergs]

Guys, we have been through this a bunch before (do a search on reboots). Do a clear and delete, and your unit will be fine. There is some sort of very slow corruption/bug/memory leak in the SW for the High Def TIVO (very slow in that it takes about a year+ to build up). After the Clear and Delete, all your problems will be solved and you will be good for another year or so.

[videojanitor]

Guys, we have been through this a bunch before (do a search on reboots). Do a clear and delete, and your unit will be fine.

I guess I will give that try before ordering a new drive -- the thing really went bananas tonight -- so far, it's rebooted five times in the span of about four hours.

EDIT: Well, after reading various threads about this problem, there didn't seem to be any absolute proof that a C&D would cure this. To that end, I just decided to throw money at the problem and ordered a new drive. At least that way, I'm virtually guaranteed it will be fixed. If the old drive turns out to be fine, I can always use it for something else.

[newsposter]

janitor please keep this thread updated if you ever have the problem again..would help the timeline if indeed the new drive cures it

and if it doesn't fix it, that's important to know too

[videojanitor]

I will definitely post my experience. In reading what others have said, I don't think I've seen one message where someone said they replaced the drive and still had the problem -- so, I am hopeful.

[txfeinbergs]

Replacing the drive of course will solve the problem. It is about the same as doing a Clear and Delete (which completely cleans up the drive with the exception of the operating system and core program). Of course, a Clear and Delete is free to do - but with a drive replacement, you can take the opportunity to get a bigger drive, and also won't lose the channel icons.

[videojanitor]

I ordered a replacement drive from Weaknees. I could have obtained a blank drive myself and done all the work to transfer the operating system over, etc. (done it before, many times on SD TiVos), but I don't feel like messing around with it -- I just want to drop it in and have it work. Not sure if their drives have icons on or not -- that will be interesting to see, though I don't really care either way.

[bobng]

I experienced the same lost minutes, slow recording time etc. I did a "Clear programs and to do list"; which took several hours. That corrected my problems for about four months now. I notice that the recording time is starting to slow again this week. If I start losing minutes again I'll do it again. My unit is an original 1K model.

[newsposter]

why would a bad/filled/fragmented or whatever drive cause it to not start 'on time?" I thought reboots and dropouts and pixels are signs of a bad drive.

[chris_h]

why would a bad/filled/fragmented or whatever drive cause it to not start 'on time?" I thought reboots and dropouts and pixels are signs of a bad drive.

I think that the theory is if you have bad sectors on your drive, that it will take many read retries to get good data from the drive to fire a recording. Since video read/swrites take priority over SW and database reads, it could take up to a minute or two for the SW to do all of the accesses to the drive needed to actually start the recording.

I am not saying I have knowledge of this from logs or knowledge of the tivo SW. I am to a degree repeating what I have read here.

The other theory about late-starting recordings is that the clock on from one satellite/transponder (I think the time is maintained on the ground, not on the bird) can be off from the others. If your tivo is on a channel that has it's clock late, by the time the recording starts, the progam on another transponder already started. Obviously, this has nothing to do with the hard drive. But the effects of these two problems would be addative.

The time-sync issue shows up for all users (of the transponder with the issue) and so it is very prevalent when it shows up.

[DeWitt]

Heavy fragmentation causes things to be slow. It can take two or three minutes for the recording to start as a result. Try adding a season pass, i'll bet that is slow too. C&D should fix these issues, or reimaging or replacing the drive. I reimaged mine about a month ago and it runs like the day it was new.

[videojanitor]

UPDATE:

OK, I have replaced the drive and that went smoothly, though for some reason I am no longer receiving the local SD channels -- they all say "Channel Not Available." They don't appear in the guide either, so I am guessing maybe I have to wait for the guide to populate. Anyone else experience this when changing a drive?

I just tried back-to-back dual-tuner HD recordings, which previously would always result in missing minutes at the start of the second programs, and both of them recorded without incident -- no missing time -- so this is an encouraging sign.

I'll report back once the guide loads and I re-input all the Season Passes.

[Edit] I just called and had them re-send the authorization signal and the SD locals came back.

[TyroneShoes]

Heavy fragmentation causes things to be slow. It can take two or three minutes for the recording to start as a result. Try adding a season pass, i'll bet that is slow too. C&D should fix these issues...
That is a theory. Unfortunately, PVR HDDs don't fragment due to the types of recording routines used by Tivo, Replay, and most others, so I doubt there is much credence there.

And there is "slow", and then there is "slow". Remember, when you press record in Live TV and see a long pause, Tivo (if it is operating properly) is already recording what you are trying to record and has been either since the last channel change or since the program began, so it appears to be waiting to start recording, but it has actually been recording since before you even told it to, so that will appear slow, but actually isn't. IOW, the recording is happening, so "slow" isn't even an option. What might be taking time is for Tivo to remind itself to convert the current "buffer" recording into a permanent recording, and reconciliation regarding upcoming conflicts about when this new recording will end (will the new current recording extend beyond the pending scheduled recording start time of both tuners, for instance).

On the other hand, if it is slow because it is having HDD problems, which should be evident by it also spontaneously rebooting or acting wacky otherwise, then you have to weigh how invasive the possible more-invasive fixes are by how well each can predict success, or by how much trouble and cash you are willing to deal or part with.

C&D will eliminate all cataloging errors regarding what is on the drive, and that is a valid first step, but if the problem is related to bad sectors that may have developed since the drive was formatted, bad sectors will not get sectored out by a C&D, which means it's not a matter of whether the problem will return, it's a matter of when. A reformat might get the drive working properly again (which is much more invasive than a C&D) and will also sector out the bad spots, but if a drive is developing bad sectors it may be doing so due to catastrophic failure of the magnetic media, which means that it will only be a matter of time before new bad sectors cause the problem to reappear. Either way, its not assured that you have rooted out all of the cancer.

To me, there is nothing worse than losing 5 minutes out of the concluding moments of episode 24 of "24", so what I would do if I were experienceing the late starts or spontaneous reboots is do the C&D once there are repeating problems such as this, and make preparations to simply replace the HDD(s) soon after. YMMV. If you can reformat a drive, that's certainly cheaper, and you get to play with the house's money for a while, but the risks of secondary problems might make that an eventually fruitless exercise.

If a Tivo is just plain slow, remove all unnecessary WLs and SPs, and clear the thumbs ratings and suggestions, which may incrementally or significantly speed it up, depending on how many things get removed or reset. Tivo will become exponentially slower the more items it has to reconcile in its database. If reconciling 10 items against 10 items will take X amount of time, then reconciling 100 items against 100 items could take X amount of time multiplied by 100. IOW, if you have 10 SPs Tivo will have a lot less to think about than if you have 100, and will be significantly, exponentially faster. If you have a lot of WLs, SPs, thumbs ratings, etc., removing even 10% of those items can sometimes speed it up significantly.

Newer reconciliation algorithms in 6.2 make that process faster, but the same principles apply. 3.1 only becomes noticeably slow when there is a bloated database. 6.2 is fast enough for a bloated database to not really matter. Also, if you use "save all eps" and "save until I delete" for everything and manage the space manually, that gives the Tivo database a lot less to consider when adding new recordings or indexing data, which theoretically could also speed things up, depending on how Tivo handles these things.

[AbMagFab]

UPDATE:

OK, I have replaced the drive and that went smoothly, though for some reason I am no longer receiving the local SD channels -- they all say "Channel Not Available." They don't appear in the guide either, so I am guessing maybe I have to wait for the guide to populate. Anyone else experience this when changing a drive?

I just tried back-to-back dual-tuner HD recordings, which previously would always result in missing minutes at the start of the second programs, and both of them recorded without incident -- no missing time -- so this is an encouraging sign.

I'll report back once the guide loads and I re-input all the Season Passes.

[Edit] I just called and had them re-send the authorization signal and the SD locals came back.

SD Locals will also come back on their own in about 12 hours.

[AbMagFab]

Heavy fragmentation causes things to be slow. It can take two or three minutes for the recording to start as a result. Try adding a season pass, i'll bet that is slow too. C&D should fix these issues, or reimaging or replacing the drive. I reimaged mine about a month ago and it runs like the day it was new.

This is complete and total nonsense. The block-size used for DVR's results in no significant fragmentation.

Stutters usually = bad hard drive. C&DE just masks the issue for a while.

[videojanitor]

SD Locals will also come back on their own in about 12 hours.

I guess I got impatient. :) Any idea why they take so long to come back??

[TyroneShoes]

This is complete and total nonsense. The block-size used for DVR's results in no significant fragmentation...
Block size is only part of the story. PVRs typically have ZERO fragmentation due to the methods used, regardless of block size.

Rhetorically speaking, what is the worse sin? a poster that tries to present what appears to be a credible, if slightly flawed theory, or a secondary poster that feels obligated to slap that first poster in the face with his particular version of the cold hard truth, as quickly, as firmly, and as rudely as possible? Sometimes it's a lot easier to swallow such medicine if it isn't served up with quite so much vinegar. If the real object is to share information, that might be something to consider. If on the other hand the object is to lord it over everyone about how clever one might be, I guess it makes no sense to try that approach instead.

Folks are just doing what comes naturally, and are simply trying to make order out of chaos. Reasoning out conclusions, even if they are incorrect, is a central tenet of human nature, it's part of what we are supposed to do. I'm thinking that returning a weak serve with an overhead smash might just be an example of poor sportsmanship, and probably isn't all that appreciated. At least that's been my experience.

[videojanitor]

Also, if you use "save all eps" and "save until I delete" for everything and manage the space manually, that gives the Tivo database a lot less to consider when adding new recordings or indexing data, which theoretically could also speed things up, depending on how Tivo handles these things.

Thanks for that excellent suggestion! Since I had to recreate all of my Season Passes anyway, I put them all in just as you suggested. So far, so good. I have a total of about 20, and previously, trying to add one, or even make a modification to one, would result in a minimum of 5 MINUTES of staring at the "Please Wait ..." screen. Now, with the new drive, and the 20 SPs back in, "Please Wait ..." only displays for about 3 SECONDS. I'd say, THAT is quite an improvement. :up:

[newsposter]

does having a WL NOT on auto record still cause a slow down?

[videojanitor]

Also, if you use "save all eps" and "save until I delete" for everything and manage the space manually, that gives the Tivo database a lot less to consider when adding new recordings or indexing data...

I just tried to add a few more Season Passes, and ran into a bit of a problem with this method. I started getting "conflict" warnings, telling me there is not enough available disk space -- it gave me the option of adding the new SP, or cancelling a previously scheduled recording. When I added it, the previous scheduled recording disappeared from the "To Do" list. Question is, will it return once it figures out that there IS plenty of space since I will be manually deleting recordings? Or is it just simply gone unless I manually re-schedule it?

[EDIT]: OK, I decided to delete all the Season Passes and then re-created them once again, this time leaving the "Until Space Needed" option selected. That allowed all 20 SPs to be entered with giving a conflict warning. I'll tell you this though, with the new drive, this is thing is now a real pleasure to use -- it responds as fast as I can push the buttons. I entered in those 20 SPs in about fifteen minutes.

[tivoboy]

So, I have been having this issue as well, a couple of weeks but only a couple of times. Mostly OTA FOX local HD, and when there is something else being recorded. Is the best solution to start, a clear and delete?

[videojanitor]

So far, the "best" solution seems to be to replace the hard drive. That appears to be successful 100% of the time. I did that last weekend, and so far, this problem has not returned. Before I replaced the drive, it would happen on virtually every recording.

That said, a "C&D" is certainly cheaper and worth a shot. If it doesn't fix your problem, you could always replace the drive later.

[newsposter]

did you restore the old stuff to the new drive?

[videojanitor]

Nope. I just popped in the new drive and started from scratch. Had to go through "Guided Setup" and all ...

[videojanitor]

Just another update, now that a full week as gone by since I changed the drive. The thing is still working great -- no reboots, responds speedily to commands (virtually as fast as my SD TiVo), has not missed anything at the beginning of recordings, and still only takes about three seconds to add or rearrange a Season Pass (now up to 25 SPs).

:up:

[leftcoastdave]

Just another update, now that a full week as gone by since I changed the drive. The thing is still working great -- no reboots, responds speedily to commands (virtually as fast as my SD TiVo), has not missed anything at the beginning of recordings, and still only takes about three seconds to add or rearrange a Season Pass (now up to 25 SPs).

:up:

After my drive replacement in December, I had around the same number of SP's as you now do. Initially the response to commands and actions such as adding recording events was lightening fast. Since then I have noticed a gradual degradation in response but nothing like it was before the drive replacement.

More importantly, the drive replacement corrected all of the system performance problems I was having. I am still reboot free and have had no late starts or partial recordings since December 1, 2005.

I think you made the right call to scrap the failing drive and move on.

Dave

[newsposter]

Nope. I just popped in the new drive and started from scratch. Had to go through "Guided Setup" and all ...

See to me, restoring to a new drive would be the 'definitive' statement on whether or not it's a bad drive or just a 'too full' one. If you would put the same stuff back on a brand new drive and had the same problems, then I guess it can't be the drive right?

inquiring minds :)

[videojanitor]

:) Well normally, I am one who loves these kinds of experiments, and if I had TWO units, I probably would have tried that since I would have another machine to keep up with the daily recordings. Lacking that though, I went for the most expedient, though costlier, route. I wanted the thing back up and running ASAP, and this seemed like a sure bet.

[newsposter]

my 3.1 machine is not picking up the first minute or so again. It shows blank space at the front. But i'll never do 6.x voluntarily on that machine :)

[Sir_winealot]

I've gone ahead and let all 3 of my machines upgrade to 6.3x, and thus far have had absolutely no problems at all.

[tivoboy]

So, I am once again having the missing first one minute issue. Usually, when both tuners are in action.

Is there a new fix, or thinking about how to repair or work around this
i'm still on 3.1f

[JohnDG]

So, I am once again having the missing first one minute issue. Usually, when both tuners are in action.

Is there a new fix, or thinking about how to repair or work around this
i'm still on 3.1f

Do a "Clear Program Data and To Do List." This will take overnight to perform and repopulate the guide. You'll then have to reenter your SPs and WLs. You will keep your recordings.

I find I need to do this about every 8 months, still using 3.1.5f.

jdg

[tivoboy]

WOW, C&D and TDL, that seems like it WOULD take a whole night.
But, certainly it won't erase recordings?
That would be painful, #1 1K GF would beat me to death

[JohnDG]

WOW, C&D and TDL, that seems like it WOULD take a whole night.
But, certainly it won't erase recordings?
That would be painful, #1 1K GF would beat me to death

The Delete C&D and TDL only takes a few hours. The rest of the time is for the TiVo to download and repopulate the guide data so that you can re-add the SPs and WLs. Make sure to write them down or take some photos before you begin. :-)

No: it does not delete the recordings. However, it will not record anything new until you add the SPs, WLs, etc. back in.

jdg