Help!! Belkin WAP in Bridge mode no worky...

[Gunnyman]

I picked up a Belkin FD57130 WAP with bridge mode today along with a Netgear FA120.
I got link and power lights on the Fa120, and I was able to put the Belkin in bridge mode (after connecting it to my computer )
I can't seem to get an IP address on my HDVR2 running 6.2. I have USB 2.0 drivers installed and working.
When Everything is powered up, I have good lights on all of my devices but no network connectivity.
What have I missed?
I am unable to connect to the belkin wirelessly to configure it.
Is it my Linksys WRT54G router?
Am I doomed to 802.11b slownless forever?
Help a brother out please! :D

[Dan Collins]

I've configured a DLink and a Motorola AP to operate in bridge mode successfully. Let's start at the basics...

1) Did you configure the bridge AP with the MAC address of the network AP?
2) Did you turn off DHCP on the bridge AP?
3) Did you confirm the ability to reach your network from a PC attached to the bridge?
4) I assume the TiVo gets an IP correctly when attached to wired network via the FA120?

What I would do is attach the PC to the bridge, confirm that the configuration is correct, and insure that the PC can connect to the LAN. Then set the PC to DHCP, and "repair" the ethernet adapter and make sure it gets an IP address. If that works, then connect the FA120, pull the USB connector out of the TiVo and reinsert it (this will force the TiVo to ask for an IP again).

[Gunnyman]

for those keeping score:
The Belkin WAP I chose DOES bridge, but only with a belkin router :(
so I am stringing cat 5 from my router to my tivos (skillfully hidden behind furniture etc).
:D
Thanks for trying to help me Dan.

[ttodd1]

So the score is:

Belkin - 1
Gunny - 0

When is round 2? :)

[Dan Collins]

IMHO, the best unit to use for bridging is the Motorola WE800G 802.11g bridge. They can be had on eBay for about $35 each, and they work great. I've got one bridging from a Linksys USB200M to a DLink DI-524 AP/Router and I get Tytools downloads in 16 Mbit (2 Mbytes) per second range (using USB 2.0 drivers), with WEP enabled.

[Gunnyman]

I'll likely pick these up. The wife is unhappy with wires :(

[rbautch]

WEP is turned off, right?

[Gunnyman]

yes it was.
it matters not, the unit has been returned to the store :D

[Gunnyman]

grabbed 2 of the motorlla bridges for 82 bucks shipped from Ebay.
Thanks for the Heads up Dan.
Can I count oun your expertise for configuring them when they arrive?
I bought a 2nd FA120 today as well so when the bridges arrive I'll be good to go.

[Lopey]

Gunny, Have you gotten yours in and up and running yet?

[Gunnyman]

they haven't arrived
I'll inform the masses when I get everything going.

[Gunnyman]

Bridge's have arrived
they are up and running
all is well except no MRV
investigating this and am way open to ideas :D

[rbautch]

Both Tivos have IP parameters set in MFS?

[Gunnyman]

dhcp
on both let me look at netstate to make sure

[Gunnyman]

one says
NetConfigIpParams 91512/11 {
AutoConfigEnabled = 1
}
teh other has
NetConfigIpParams 8530/11 {
AutoConfigEnabled = 1
}

[rbautch]

Here's mine. You obviously won't have static IP set, but I would expect to see gateway and dns information. Maybe try setting those with the netconfig module in TWP. If that doesn't work, try the MRV voodoo chant.

NetConfigIpParams 3978/11 {
AutoConfigEnabled = 0
HostAddress = 192.168.1.112
SubnetMask = 255.255.255.0
GatewayAddress = 192.168.1.1
DnsServers = 192.168.1.1
}

[Gunnyman]

will do
thanks

[Gunnyman]

ok both now show
AutoConfigEnabled = 1
SubnetMask = 255.255.255.0
GatewayAddress = 192.168.1.1
DnsServers = 192.168.1.1
}
still no love
any other ideas?

[ttodd1]

not knowing your setup and not doubting your ability, but is your router really the DNS server? My setup is that my DSL modem is. Just a thought.

[Gunnyman]

I'll try removing the dns info but I don't think it will matter
thanks for giving me something else to try

[Lopey]

The only change you made was putting the bridge's in right? You can get FTP, Telnet and other networking functions, just not MRV? How does MRV work, by name, not IP right? So it has to do with DNS....Do you have DHCP running on your PC too, or is it static? if it's DHCP check your ipconfig and see what DNS it is picking up. You have tivodesktop loaded anywhere? Can Tivodesktop see them.. because that runs by name as well correct?

[Gunnyman]

tivodesktop works vserver works
I am beginning to think I have range issues because I am getting spotty connections to teh bridges.

[rbautch]

ok both now show
AutoConfigEnabled = 1
SubnetMask = 255.255.255.0
GatewayAddress = 192.168.1.1
DnsServers = 192.168.1.1
}
still no love
any other ideas?You did reboot after this, right?

[Gunnyman]

yes

[Gunnyman]

OK
ONE of my bridges was bad.
I am up and running now with 1 bridge and 1 strategically placed wire :D

[merlincc]

Gunny,

I am having the same issues. I have had the Motorola's up for about 1 1/2 months. Everything works but MRV. After playing around and testing for several days I have come to the conclusion that one of the bridges is bad. I can telnet to tivo 1 and it will stay connected indefinitely. When I telnet to tivo 2 it loses it's connection usually with five minutes. I believe this is the reason MRV will not work.

I have ordered a new bridge which will be here this week. I will hook it up and report back.

Keep your receipt. You may be sending one back.

[Gunnyman]

I've been in contact with both motorola and my ebay seller.
Let's keep each other posted :D

[ashu]

Missed this thread before. I heartily endorse te older Belkin 7230-04 routers/APs that work in bridged mode (AND have 4 ports!)

With 3 of these, I have a 3-location 12-port seamless bridge in my home for approximately $20 (total) after a plethora of rebates. And I haven't rebooted a single bridge/router in over 60 days :) (been runnin, by-and-large, smoothly for over 7-8 months there's a reason they call this an Ultimate Wireless network!)

[Lopey]

Damn, I just purchased on of these Motorolla bridges too... Maybe all these problems is the reason why I couldn't find these products at stores other than ebay. Gunny did yours come from computergeeks.com or some other place?

[Lopey]

Missed this thread before. I heartily endorse te older Belkin 7230-04 routers/APs that work in bridged mode (AND have 4 ports!)

With 3 of these, I have a 3-location 12-port seamless bridge in my home for approximately $20 (total) after a plethora of rebates. And I haven't rebooted a single bridge/router in over 60 days :) (been runnin, by-and-large, smoothly for over 7-8 months there's a reason they call this an Ultimate Wireless network!)


Gunny already tried the Belkin, but you need a Belkin setup in order to get it to work, the Belkin does not work with other manufacturers. So in order to get the cheap bridge to work, you also have to purchase the belkin wireless router, and seeing as I'm using a linksys wireless router that also works as my AT&T phone adapter, this alternative would not work for me. I just hope the Motorola one I purchased works.

[ashu]

He tried the 7130 - a plain-ole bridge, methinks. I'm using the bridged mode of the 7230 routers. And it's well-known these fellas dislike bridging with others ... hence my (implied) apology at missing this thread before, I let Gunny down by not warning him :(

[Gunnyman]

Damn, I just purchased on of these Motorolla bridges too... Maybe all these problems is the reason why I couldn't find these products at stores other than ebay. Gunny did yours come from computergeeks.com or some other place?

Computer geeks.
And I have spoken to Motorola and the RMA process is underway.
I should have a new bridge by end of teh week.
Compugeeks offered an RMA as well, but I had already been in contact with Motorola tech support before compugeeks reponded

[Lopey]

oh, ok I guess I missed that part... Talking to ashu

[Gunnyman]

He tried the 7130 - a plain-ole bridge, methinks. I'm using the bridged mode of the 7230 routers. And it's well-known these fellas dislike bridging with others ... hence my (implied) apology at missing this thread before, I let Gunny down by not warning him :(
Nah nobody let me down at all.
I just blindly bought the belkin without reading up on it.
The price was right at 34 bucks.

[bengalfreak]

Nah nobody let me down at all.
I just blindly bought the belkin without reading up on it.
The price was right at 34 bucks.


Did you guys ever think about using the netgear WGE101 wireless bridge? justdeals.com has them for 39.95 with free shipping.

[Gunnyman]

that's a good deal too.
I got the motorolas on Dan Colins' recomendation.

[bengalfreak]

that's a good deal too.
I got the motorolas on Dan Colins' recomendation.


I just wondered because the netgear usb adaptors seem to work so well with the Tivo. Of course, I guess any wired adaptor works.

[Lopey]

I got my motorola bridge in today, it seems to be working ok. Pretty easy to install. Just thinking out loud, but I could put a switch on plugged into this bridge, so I could share out the connection from this bridge right? If so I will be ordering my second one pretty soon.

[ashu]

Possibly, but NOT necessarily. Some 'game adapters' (whih are crippled bridges with a 100% enhanced profit margin for the XBox or PS2 type plastic box!) do not work this way.

I'd double and triple confirm before buying switches and more bridges at broadbandreports. Conversely, buy locally so returns are easy in case it doesn't work as advertised. A bridge SHOULD bridge subnets together - it's crippled if it works only for one device/IP - so I wouldn't have any qualms returning such a 'bridge'. :)

[merlincc]

Got my replacement Motorola bridge yesterday. After configuring it (man the process sucks :eek: ) I hooked it up tivo #2. It connected up right away to my router and I was able to telnet in. I left it connected and went to bed and when I got up this morning it was still connected. So that intermittent disconnect problem is fixed. I have a stable connection on 2 tivos with 2 bridges.

Now the bad news: my MRV still doesn't seem to be working. I can see the other tivo in the NPL on each tivo but when I select it it states that it can't connect.

Rats. :mad:

The saga continues....

[Lopey]

Uh oh... I'm fighting one now the bridge is set up, and I can remote into it to configure and stuff. It has an IP from my router and I can see an IP for my tivo, but when I do a regular ping to it with 4 tests the first one responds, the next two pings fail, and the 4th one responds. Do you have yours set up infrastructure or ad-hoc, and did you use the blue cross over cable?

I'm wondering if someone should try the D-Link. I'm open to it if I can find it at a descent price. These Motorola's seem like too much work, and they are pretty iffy. Must be a reason why you can't buy these in stores.. Don't seem like good products. :(

[merlincc]

Lopey,

My bridge is setup as infrastructure. I checked again when I got home yesterday and my telnet session was still connected so that is great. I can do everything (telnet, ftp, TivoWebPlus, Tytools, JavaHMO) the only thing that does not seem to work is MRV. I can see the other tivo but can't access it.

[Lopey]

Did you use the cross over cable that came with the bridge?

[Gunnyman]

I'm using teh cable that came with the bridge on mine.
I wasn't aware it's a crossover.

[Lopey]

was it blue? Mine was blue and had a white tag on it that says cross over... which I kind of thought was wierd.. you have yours infrastructure also Gunny? try pinging your tivo's what kind of response do you get? consistent?

Still waiting for your replacement Gunny?

[merlincc]

I am not using the crossover cable that came with the bridge. I didn't think their was a need but I guess I will try it and see if that makes a difference.

[Gunnyman]

mine didn't have a white tag on it indicating Xover.
My replacement is on its way, but I have had absolutely NO connectivity issues with the other one.

[Lopey]

but without the replacement, you can't try MRV.

[Gunnyman]

yes I can,
I ran 100 feet of cat 5 in my livingroom :p
MRV works just fine between my two units

[Lopey]

I see in your new thread.. or at least if I'm reading it correctly, you have both bridges now hooked up, and MRV is working? You have it set up to infrastructre, using the cables that came with the bridges? Did either one of them have a tag on the cable that say cross over on them?? I have a 3rd tivo sitting on a shelf right now, I'm thinking about hooking it up and trying to copy recordings over to it so that I can redo my drives with your zipper program. My tivo's have been acting quirky, and I'm not sure if it's the way I upgraded them.

[Gunnyman]

Lopey
my 2nd bridge is arriving today.
The one I have connected does indeed have a crossover cable on it. I never noticed that unil I just checked.
I am not having any MRV problems. I am using infrastructure mode.

[Lopey]

what were the symptoms that you were seeing with the malfunctioning one? I'm just trying to figure out if the one I have is defective as well. The bridge actually appears to work ok, but the Tivo won't work right off of it. Like I said in previous posts, the response to pings is very inconsistent, and I can't get a telnet session going. Out of 4 ping tests, the 1st and last test will respond, the middle ones won't. This is a good known usb adapter attached to the Tivo, as I had previously used it on another tivo for the previous 3 months without any problems.

[Gunnyman]

the malfunctioning one would not see my network. whenever I tried to configure it, it would stick on chosing a profile. It wouldn't configure no matter what I tried. Motorola replaced it under warranty, but the computergeeks site would have replaced it as well. Strangely enough while it was exhibiting this behavior, everything but MRV worked, I am guessing the device must fall back to adhoc mode or something and since it could not pass dns info to the tivo, MRV wouldn't work.

[merlincc]

My Motorola exhibited the same behavior as Gunny's. Everything worked but MRV. What I noticed was a disconnect and reconnect happening constantly. Like Gunny said maybe it couldn't load the right profile and defaulted to something else which caused the MRV problem. The odd part was that my Tivo connected to the router with the static IP that I assigned it so I thought I was good to go.

Now new information on my replacement Motorola bridge:

I received it last Thursday and configured it (Yuck :eek: ). I couldn't get the tivo to connect. I hooked up the bridge that works fine to my pc and checked the config screens to make sure I configured it the same way. Both bridges are configured the same. I reconnected everything and the bridge that always worked connected fine and the tivo connected with the static ip. The new bridge connects to the router but the tivo will not connect. I think I saw this behavior before but this might be another bad bridge. :mad:

I will keep you posted. :rolleyes:

[Lopey]

Merlin, try doing a ping test to the IP of your Tivo and see if you get any responses.

[Gunnyman]

oh when I get my new one configured I'll update you all here too.

[merlincc]

Lopey,

I can't ping the tivo on the new bridge. It will not connect through the bridge. When I hard wire it connects to the static IP just fine. Through the new bridge...no go.

Current count:

1 Motorola bridge - Connects to router, tivo connects to router with static ip. Everything works including MRV.
1 Motorola bridge - Connects to router, tivo connects to router with static ip. Everything works but MRV.
1 Motorola bridge - Connects to router, tivo won't connect.

[Lopey]

On a side note, that Avcast looks pretty interesting....

[Gunnyman]

well, after fighting with these infernal bridges all day I FINALLY got things working.
I discovered:
my two bridges are running different firmware.
With one bridge connected and the other tivo being wired, MRV works fine. I tried BOTH bridges this way same result.
With BOTH bridges connected, everything except MRV works.
I was able to get MRV working by adding a WAP to the mix. One bridge is talking to my router and the other is talking to the WAP.
I have been unable to find the latest firmware on Motorola's website, and the fine software engineers at motorola did not think to make backing up firmware a part of the update firmware routines.
So I guess in a nutshell, I gotta give thumbs down to motorola WE800G bridges.
Hope others have better success than I.
Will those of you who have a pair of these working please tell me what firmware the bridges are running?
That may help straighten me out.

[merlincc]

After checking when I got home from work I got quite a shock. My replacement Motorola allowed my tivo #2 to connect up using the static ip I had assigned! I quickly telneted in to tivo #2 and checked things out. Everything looked great. I then took a cautious peek at MRV.

:mad: :mad: :mad:

Like Gunny said: It still does not work!

I too have had about enough of these Motorola's! I think it is time to send them back to Motorola and move on to a more expensive solution.

My findings are that you can use 1 bridge and a hard wired solution but when 2 bridges come into play MRV will just not work.

I thought I remember a few weeks back before I started down this winding road that someone on this board stated that they had 2 Motorola's up and running. Does that person care to share they're experience?

Bueller?....... Bueller?.......Bueller?

[Gunnyman]

merlin, what firmware are you running on your bridges?

[merlincc]

merlin, what firmware are you running on your bridges?

I am not sure. I will check when I get home.

Doing a google search on these suckers haven't given me a warm and fuzzy either. Lots of problems reported and the consensus seems to indicate they are a POS! :(

[Gunnyman]

yes I know :(

[Dan Collins]

I have a Motorola bridge working fine, including MRV. Here is my configuration:

TiVo connected to Motorola WE800G associated with a DLink DI-524 Wireless router running as an access point only (i.e. no WAN connection).

Motorola configuration:
SSID: enabled
ESS mode: PSK
Encryption: WEP128
Short Preamble: enabled
RTS Threshold: 2346
Frag Threshold: 2346
Basic Rate Set: All
11g Protection: Auto
Frame Bursting: disabled

On the Site Survey page I show:
Operational speed: 54Mbps
Channel number: 1 (as set at the AP)
Radio Signal Strength: 32%
Radio Noise Level: -85

The Site Monitor shows the AP at 51% signal strength.

The AP is set as follows:

Obviously, channel number is set to 1, WEP is configured the same, etc.
Beacon Interval: 100msec
RTS Threshold: 2346
Frag Threshold: 2346
DTIM interval: 3
Mode: Mixed
Preamble Type: Short

This works fine...I get MRV transfers at about 3X real time.

In my house I have two APs, one at each end. One is on Channel 1 and the other on channel 11 (my neighbor uses channel 6). The other AP is a Netgear WGR614, and it supports another TiVo attached to a DLink DWL2100AP in bridge mode (I had been using the 2100 as the AP at that end of the house, but it was cheaper to buy a router to be the AP and use the 2100 as a bridge than to buy a dedicated bridge device). I get a usable signal at the Motorola bridge from the Netgear AP so I'll try that later and see if I was just lucky with the Motorola and the DLink working together.

[merlincc]

Thanks for the reply Dan. I gather by your post that you are only using 1 bridge so I assume that you are using a hard wired connection for your other tivo correct? That seems to work just fine for myself and Gunny but what we want to do is have 2 of these bridges up and running. 1 at each tivo. Mrv does not seem to work in this setup.

On a side note: Gunny I was reading through the documentation and just like Dan's configuration it recommends setting the 'short preamble' to enabled. I will give that a try as well as setting the bridges up with static ip's and setting the 'ESS Auth Mode' to PSK and also the 'Basic Rate Set' to ALL. (The doc states that this 'ensures compatability with all devices').

I will report back with my findings.

And so it goes... :p

[ashu]

FYI - Circuit City is blowing out the Belkin F5D7230-4 router/AP/bridge devices. 29,99 - no rebates. Look for ver. 1444 or ver. 2000 near the UPS/Barcode region on the bottom of the box, and it will have the bridging fzture enabled.

Perhaps you can get Walmart to PriceMatch them (40 normally) - but Walmart (oddly enough) has much newer stock (all ver 3000 and higher - no bridging IIRC).

[Dan Collins]

Thanks for the reply Dan. I gather by your post that you are only using 1 bridge so I assume that you are using a hard wired connection for your other tivo correct? That seems to work just fine for myself and Gunny but what we want to do is have 2 of these bridges up and running. 1 at each tivo. Mrv does not seem to work in this setup.

On a side note: Gunny I was reading through the documentation and just like Dan's configuration it recommends setting the 'short preamble' to enabled. I will give that a try as well as setting the bridges up with static ip's and setting the 'ESS Auth Mode' to PSK and also the 'Basic Rate Set' to ALL. (The doc states that this 'ensures compatability with all devices').

I will report back with my findings.

And so it goes... :pI have only one MOTOROLA bridge. I also have a DLink DWL-2100AP running in bridge mode, but that is connected to another access point. I have two TiVos networked through bridges and two hard-wired.

I just tried connecting the Motorola bridge to same access point as the DLink bridge and I see the same problem - no MRV between the two bridge connected TiVos.

HOWEVER - I DO get MRV connections between the two wired TiVos and BOTH bridged TiVos. IOW, from a hard-wired TiVo I can get the NP list from either wireless bridged TiVo, and from either bridged TiVo I can get the NP list from either hard-wired TiVo, but I can not get the NP list of one bridged TiVo from the other bridged TiVo. So, the problem is not as simple as a problem with the bridge's connection to the AP. It is ONLY a problem when connecting from one bridged TiVo to another bridged TiVo, and ONLY when they connect through the same access point - and in my case, only ONE bridge is a Motorola bridge.

Personally, this makes no sense to me, but there it is.

[Lopey]

FYI - Circuit City is blowing out the Belkin F5D7230-4 router/AP/bridge devices. 29,99 - no rebates. Look for ver. 1444 or ver. 2000 near the UPS/Barcode region on the bottom of the box, and it will have the bridging fzture enabled.

Perhaps you can get Walmart to PriceMatch them (40 normally) - but Walmart (oddly enough) has much newer stock (all ver 3000 and higher - no bridging IIRC).


Hmmm, and you have 2 tivo's connected using the Belkin Bridge running MRV?? Because getting 2 Belkin Bridges plus a third one to actually be a router seeing as though it won't work with another brand is still cheaper then a single Linksys bridge which is $150.

It just sucks having to swallow the $40 I spent on the Motorolla. I don't think computergeeks will give a full refund.

[Gunnyman]

I've modified my settings on both bridges to dan's recomendations, no worky.
I'm off to circuit city for a Belkin Router
question, will this thing bridge to the belkin WAP? (I'm assuming yes)

[Lopey]

Gunny, Didn't you start with Belkin... So you are actually going to need 3 Belkins also...1 for each tivo and 1 that you can hard wire to service these bridges...

[Gunnyman]

I have 1 belkin that I started with in the 1st place as my Wireless Access Point
so I am guessing if I get 2 of these routers they will bridge with that WAP

[Lopey]

Hold the phone... the manual says that you can only bridge to a Belkin Wireless g range extender / Access point..models F5D7131 or F5D7130, which doing a quick search on Circuit City, they don't have.

[Lopey]

Here is a link to the online manual

http://web.belkin.com/support/download/files/P74559-A_F5D7230-4_man_6-04.pdf

[Gunnyman]

well I have a 7130
and the routers don't have to bridge to each other do they?
since each one will bridge to to the WAP? os is THIS why MRV isn't working with the motorolas?

[Lopey]

no, they don't bridge to each other.. they should be bridging to the router or access point.

[Gunnyman]

then I'm golden :D
time to go shopping

[Lopey]

Hmm, staples has the F5d7130 for $70...plus 2 bridges at 29.99 a piece is still cheaper then a single Linksys....

[Lopey]

After reading your original thread.. you might want to take your Linksys router out and switch it with the belkin f5d7130, you have to have the Belkin f5d7130 hard wired to either the modem, or to the linksys router that you have now. If that makes sense..

[Gunnyman]

all they had at mt CC is the version 3000.
I'm stymied now. What can I buy to make this all work?

[Lopey]

You didn't buy one to try while you were there did you? It doesn't say anywhere in the manual as to what ver. it has to be...

[Lopey]

Page 68 of the manual even shows a page where you configure the bridge..

[Gunnyman]

Nope didn't buy one
here's what I'm thnking....
I buy 1
I use it in place of my 7130 as a WAP, hardwired to my linksys router
I use the 7130 as a bridge to the belkin router (now in WAP mode) think that will be groovy?

[Lopey]

I don't see why that wouldn't work. I also don't see why all the work to swap those two... why not just put the 7230 as the bridge, and leave the 7130 where it is....the model numbers are making my head spin....

[Gunnyman]

because according to ashu, the version 3000 won't bridge.

[Dan Collins]

Hang on guys...according to the research I've been doing you may never get this to work properly unless you have an access point that can support Point to Multipoint bridging and the bridges support Point to Point bridging.

[Lopey]

Huh??

[Gunnyman]

that certainly explains why when I had each bridge "married" to a different WAP everything worked.
damn this is frustrating

[Lopey]

Missed this thread before. I heartily endorse te older Belkin 7230-04 routers/APs that work in bridged mode (AND have 4 ports!)

With 3 of these, I have a 3-location 12-port seamless bridge in my home for approximately $20 (total) after a plethora of rebates. And I haven't rebooted a single bridge/router in over 60 days :) (been runnin, by-and-large, smoothly for over 7-8 months there's a reason they call this an Ultimate Wireless network!)


According to what Ashu says, his works... Ashu, MRV works??

[Lopey]

So, would 1 Motorola and 1 Belkin work, because they are going to different access points?

[Dan Collins]

Apparently, a standard bridge/AP arrangement is such that the AP can only bridge between the Ethernet and the wireless segment, not WITHIN the wireless segment. Multipoint bridging create multiple logical wireless segments.

[ashu]

The 7130 is 40/50 at Circuit City (I forget which -certainly under 70 - Price Match at Staples!) With the 7130, you're paying extra for something useless (125MBPS, which gets turned off in bridging mode). I also don't know whether 7130/7131 will bridge with 7230/7231 and whether/which firmwares on 7130/1 currently available have bridging enabled (or removed!)

FYI - I use an ancient D-Link 802.11B unit as my router/AP and all 3 Belkins (two version 2000s and one version 1444) as bridges. The v.1444 is patched to the DLink directly.

Belkin's firmware/software/settings BLOW (MAC filtering, firewall, port opening, tunneling). VERY limited.

[ashu]

According to what Ashu says, his works... Ashu, MRV works??

Nothing doesn't work.

At least nothing that wouldn't work on a 12-port switch ;)

[Gunnyman]

ok ashu
I have a 7130 WAP
I have teh crappy motorolas that as long as I am using only ONE work
Can I buy just 1 Of teh 30 dollar Belkin routers which are version 3000, use it in place of teh 7130 WAP (hardwired to my linksys WRT54G) then use the 7130 at the TiVo (married to the Belkin router now a WAP) and the Motorola also "married" to the belkin router? Or will MRV still not work?

[ashu]

Here's the thing - I'm unsure whether the 7130s and 7230s can bridge together. The fancy finnangled chipset that allows high-speed mode (125-yeah-right-mbps) may be from a different manufacturer.

Maybe someone mentioned it in the Ultimate Wireless Network thread? Try a few creative searches, or test and return to CC within 14 days :)

NTS: Now that the 7230 is finally cheap-ish again, go buy one as a backup this evening, before they sell out at the local CC that had bunches of v.1444s and v.2000s on a separate shelf two weeks ago! Since there are no rebate hassles, I'd be happy to grab one or two extra for someone desperate to use Belkins and whose local Walmart/C/BB (you can price match anywhere) has only v.3000s or higher. Assuming my local stores aren't sold out of old inventory!

[Lopey]

If you have 2 Motorolas, can't you point 1 to the linksys and point the other to the Belkin??

[Lopey]

According to the manual that I am reading off of the Belkin website it says " A wireless bridge is actually a “mode” in which your Wireless Router can directly connect to a secondary Wireless Access Point. Note that you can only bridge your Wireless G Router (model F5D7230-4,
F5D7231-4) to a Belkin Wireless G Range Extender/Access Point (model F5D7131, F5D7130)"

[Lopey]

So, according to Ashu, I should be able to buy 3.. put 1 at each Tivo (2) and 1 connected to my linksys router which goes to the internet and everything should communicate and work well together...

[Gunnyman]

I'm back to 1 motorola married to the WAP and the other one married to the Linksys router and MRV works

[ashu]

So, according to Ashu, I should be able to buy 3.. put 1 at each Tivo (2) and 1 connected to my linksys router which goes to the internet and everything should communicate and work well together...

Yup. Long as you have DNS/DHCP/routing turned off on all 3 bridged Belkins.

It would be transparent enough to be indiscernible from the addition of a 12-port switch to your Linksys Router. Umm, except for throughput considerations.

[Dan Collins]

Okay...here is the result of about 2 hours of reading up on wireless bridges:

It's all a crapshoot!

There are no standards around any of this stuff. The simplest solution, building a bridge that simply acts like a standard wireless client, seems to be the LEAST commonly used solution. The problem is further exacerbated by the fact that the most commonly used AP solution (a wireless router) is often implemented as a bridge with Layer 3 on the ethernet side of the bridge (i.e. ethernet to ethernet routing).

Using APs as bridges can only be expected to work when using bridge capable APs from the same manufacturer, since that is the minimum testing performed prior to shipment. If you mix devices from multiple manufacturers, you may end up with devices that are named similarly, but which have different functionality. This may, or may not, work, and you can't tell except by actually trying. There are at least 5 different types of "wireless bridge" and they each work differently and are designed for different purposes.

So, with that behind me, I'm going back to my setup which works just fine for my needs. Good luck!

[Gunnyman]

Dan,
Thanks so much for wasting your time on this.
:D

[Dan Collins]

It was very educational!! :D

It did, however, make me long for the days of thick ethernet cable, vampire taps and transceiver cables. :eek:

[Gunnyman]

If my house wasn't such a PITA to run wire in, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

[Dan Collins]

I understand...I have 6 RG-6 cables, 1 category 5e cable, and a phone cable running from my basement to my attic -- I can't fit anymore cables through the fire-stop. And, since the WAF for surface mount wiring is pretty low, every drop into every room has to fished through the wall. That's why I got wireless APs to start with, but sometimes this wireless stuff seems like voodoo. For example, I have that DLink DWL-2100AP. This is one of their higher end units. I had it directly attached to my DLink DI-604 router for weeks with no problem. Then I decided to try and improve the range by moving upstairs to where one of the wired PCs was located. So, I pick up a DLink 5 port switch to go split the one cable for both the PC and the AP. Well, for the life of me I could not communicate across the AP if it was attached to that switch. I could attach it to a Linksys 8 port switch with no problem. But it just would not work with that 5 port DLink switch. However, that same switch is working fine in my office, supporting the PC I'm typing on right now, another notebook I use as a database server, and some transient TiVo connections (when I work on TiVos for friends). I spent 3 weeks working with DLink level 3 tech support and we never figured it out. I finally decided my time was worth more than a $25 switch. I eventually picked up a 5 port Netgear switch and it worked with the AP with no problem. Go figure.

[ashu]

Good, concise and accurate intperpretation of the state of affairs, Dan :)

[rbautch]

I've heard another way to do this that works is replace the firmware on a WRT54G with Seavsoft firmware, which will allow it to work as a bridge. This only works with network gear based on a certain chipset, but I know the WRT54G is one of them. Here are some instructions if anyone's interested....

[ashu]

The belkin F5D7230-4 uses the same EXACT chipset :) There is now a version of the Sveasoft software that works on the Belkins too. I haven't bothered ... eberything works the way Iw ant it to, out of the box :)

I found ONE v.2000 Belkin last evening at Circuit City ... joy! Especially because I just realized that upcoming furniture/room rearranging will necessitate the use of this one as well :)

[Lopey]

I have purchased 3 7230's ver 2000. The last 3. I will report once I have finished.

[Lopey]

Ashu, you are the man!!! I know have both of my tivo's running off of Belkin Bridges connected to a Belkin router. I spent a total of $95 after taxes for 3 of these Belkin beauties, when it would have costed me $300 to bridge using Linksys ( 2 "game adapters" at $150 each). And I must say, it was really easy. Much better then the Motorola. Gunny, I would think about going this direction. I don't know if I would trust those Motorola's. I have reinstalled the tweak patch, I'm just waiting for my 10:00 recordings to finish so that I can reboot my tivo. I will try the speed test later and post my results.

[Gunnyman]

if I could FIND series 2000 Belkins I'd be all over them

[Lopey]

Try other stores like Ashu said... Best Buy, Staples, Walmart and do a price match. There is actually only a $10 difference anyway. For whatever reason, the original price at CC was 69.99, it's 39.99 at the other stores.

[Gunnyman]

gonna go check my local staples tomorrow

[Lopey]

Speed test results:

From livingroom tivo:

TCP STREAM TEST to localhost
Recv Send Send
Socket Socket Message Elapsed
Size Size Size Time Throughput
bytes bytes bytes secs. 10^6bits/sec

87380 16384 16384 10.01 34.93

from bedroom tivo

hostname #netperf
TCP STREAM TEST to localhost
Recv Send Send
Socket Socket Message Elapsed
Size Size Size Time Throughput
bytes bytes bytes secs. 10^6bits/sec

87380 16384 16384 10.05 21.46

[Lopey]

I reran tweak on my bedroom tivo, I uninstalled first of course, the reinstalled, and I didn't see the part about making the drivers usb 2.0. But I don't think I want to tinker with it much longer. Do those speeds look good?

[Gunnyman]

87380 16384 16384 10.00 24.84 from bedroom
87380 16384 16384 10.01 34.23 from livingroom
not too bad but I think I'm getting belkins anyhow

[Gunnyman]

can't find Belkin Bridgable routers local anywhere :(

[ashu]

I added the 4th yesterday, and everything's dandy. Gunny, I couldn't find any more at Walmart, BB and Home Depot (yes, HD also carries these, and will PM!).

I spent 2 hours for what should have taken 3 minutes, because I mistyped the WLAN MAC in the bridging settings on the new AP, and didn't bother to check it ... AAARRGGHH!

Time for some home/computer/furniture re-arrangement in time for the new furniture coming next week :)

[Gunnyman]

Ashu thanks much for popping into this thread and giving Lopey and me the help.
I seem to be working ok for now. I get decent speeds from each Tivo via MRV and that thing we aren't supposed to talk about.

[Lopey]

I don't see why the ver. number matters.. you already have a 7130. Does the 7130 menu have a bridge section? If it does, all you do is put the wan mac address into the allow access section and it should work..... If you want you could pick one up and try???

I'm assuming that all ver. can be used as access points, because that's all you do with the 7230's set them as access points.

[Gunnyman]

The Routers have to be put in BRIDGE mode.
I would need either 2 more Belkin 7130 WAPS (which I can't find either) or two of teh bridgable routers to get rid of the motorolas.

[JWThiers]

Boy this is an interesting thread. So what was the final score here? 3 Belkin 7230 ver 2000 will work? any other versions?

[ashu]

If you think THIS thread is interesting, you must not have clicked on the one in my signature (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=2764372&&#post2764372) ;)

[JWThiers]

If you think THIS thread is interesting, you must not have clicked on the one in my signature (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=2764372&&#post2764372) ;)
I am checking it, but it may take a while. What is the verdict on the newer versions of the belkins (7230/31, 7130/31)? The belkin manual online indicates that they can bridge to each other but if I read this thread correctly the version 3000 (I assume newer version) does no worky with tivo :( .

[ashu]

I am checking it, but it may take a while. What is the verdict on the newer versions of the belkins (7230/31, 7130/31)? The belkin manual online indicates that they can bridge to each other but if I read this thread correctly the version 3000 (I assume newer version) does no worky with tivo :( .

I *may* be wrong about the 3000. Double check slickdeals, fatwallet, anandtech and other forums. I KNOW that v1200 (I think, may be 1212), v1444 and v2000 definitely bridge - including with each other. I have 3 v2000s and one v1444.

Sveasoft forums may also have some info. Some Belkins (maybe ONLY after a SveSoft upgrade?) will happily bridge to other routers/APs with the same chipsets (Linksys and others)

[Gunnyman]

looking at http://www.seattlewireless.net/index.cgi/Belkin_20F5D7230_2d4#head-0c709f9886c34419d95252da6707fd3dc704a220-4
the 3000 just MIGHT bridge.
Ashu, your thoughts?

[ashu]

It seems to imply increased range is the only difference. Same firmware, hardware and memory size as the 2000!

Grab one (or two) from CC and give it a shot! I would, but I'm going to have a busy weekend with a picnic/hike & roadtrip thrown in ...

<edit> I take back the firmware thing - 4.05.03 to 5.xxxxx

I can confirm that 4.03.03 (on my v1444) and 4.05.03 (on my 2 old and 1 new v2000) bridge, and appear to be identical!

[Gunnyman]

Soon as Annie wakes up I'm off to circuit city to grab them at 30 bucks each :D
That site seems to be "everything you wanted to know about Belkin routers but was afraid to ask" :D

[Gunnyman]

HFC
That was TOO easy!
Got a 3000 YES it's bridge capable and an older 1444 or whatever it is.
Simple as simple can be to set up

[ashu]

DUDE :)
I mean - SWEET!

[Gunnyman]

and 30 bucks each with no rebates was super nice
Man I love Circuit City in store pick up of web orders.
Anybody want a couple of slightly used Motorola Wireless G Bridges??

[Gunnyman]

Here's my current setup at each TiVo:
1) Netgear FA120 30 bucks but available cheaper mailorder
2) Belkin Wireless G Router F5D7230-4 in BRIDGE MODE 30 bucks at Circuit City

The Belkin routers are bridged to a Belkin 7130 WAP which is hardwired into a Linksys WRT54G.

[Lopey]

I have 1 slightley used Motorola also..

[JWThiers]

Here's my current setup at each TiVo:
1) Netgear FA120 30 bucks but available cheaper mailorder
2) Belkin Wireless G Router F5D7230-4 in BRIDGE MODE 30 bucks at Circuit City

The Belkin routers are bridged to a Belkin 7130 WAP which is hardwired into a Linksys WRT54G.
This should work with one F5D7230-4 hardwired to a cable modem and Multiple 7130 WAP's correct? Or any combination of Belkin WAP's and Routers for that matter. :confused:

[Gunnyman]

yes
I got the routers because they were 30 bucks and the 7130's were nowhere to be found.

[ashu]

Not to mention how minimal (although not awful) the Belkin's settings and features are, as a router. And I found that the overall bridging performance improved when I let my bridges just bridge, and didn't force one of them to also route, do Firewalling, NATing etc!

[JWThiers]

Thanks for all the help, I think my head will explode if I have to remember one more thing. Now what was that password......... BOOOOOOOOOM!!!!!!!!!!

[Gunnyman]

tell me about it.

[JWThiers]

I feel your pain, whoa!, that wasn't your pain. At least I know what hardware to get now.

[scubajwd]

The Linksys WET54GS5 worked right out of the box as a wireless-G bridge to my
Netgear RangeMax based network..a bit pricey but the additional ports on the bridge
allow me to do other things as well..has WAP & WEP security..

[merlincc]

OK gang, this thread is good as I am learning more about networking than I probably would otherwise.

I jumped on the bandwagon and went out to CC and found 3 Belkin F5D7230-4's. Plunked down the 90$ :D and started to set them up today.

My setup:
I have a modem from my ISP. I have a wireless netgear WTG624 that has been serving nicely as my router for several years. I turned off the wireless radio on this. I set up Belkin #1 v. 3000 as an AP/Bridge, set up the security and SSID and connected my PC to it. Worked fine. Connected to the internet.

I took Belkin #2 v. 2000 and set it up as a ap/bridge, set up the security and SSID and connected it to my pc. No worky! :mad:

What am I doing wrong?

[ashu]

Same PC? Different PC? DHCP settings? Static IP? Is your netgear 624 still doing DHCP?

[merlincc]

Same PC? Different PC? DHCP settings? Static IP? Is your netgear 624 still doing DHCP?

Same PC. DHCP is turned off on the Belkins. Static ip's on the Belkins. Netgear serving DHCP.

When I connect the pc strait to Belkin #1 it connects to the internet just fine. When I connect it to Belkin #2 it does not connect. PC is set with static ip also.

Thanks for the quick reply.

[JWThiers]

OK here is a new wrinkle that hasn't been discussed. Is there any advantage to using all routers (7230's) acting as bridges as opposed to using WAP's (7130's) and 1 router.? What I wondering is do the WAP's have the ability to communicate WAP to WAP as opposed to WAP to Router to WAP, i.e. when you MRV is the comm path thru the router or is it direct to the WAP of the other TIVO?

[Gunnyman]

no real advantage I can see although the Routers MAY have stronger antennas on them.

you can bridge wap to wap, but that will probably disable your ability to get a bash prompt on your computer.

[JWThiers]

no real advantage I can see although the Routers MAY have stronger antennas on them.

you can bridge wap to wap, but that will probably disable your ability to get a bash prompt on your computer.
I would THINK that you would pick up a little transfer speed (1 less jump).

I noticed that the bridge mode setup on the belkin allows you to specify what AP's can use the router. If you have say 4 each connected to 3 D*tivo and to main computer, could you specify the other 3 routers on each router. this would give bash access and fewer jumps. Just a thought.

[Gunnyman]

good point
I'll add my Router Mac Addreses into each one and see if it make a difference. MRV is plenty fast for me and I get about 1600KBps doing that thing we aren't supposed to talk about.

[Jeff_in_Bklyn]

From what I understand the F5D7230-4 will only bridge to another Belkin, is that correct? I have a dlink 624, I guess I might be better off getting a dwl-g810 from dlink. Is that a good idea?

Thanks

[JWThiers]

From what I understand the F5D7230-4 will only bridge to another Belkin, is that correct? I have a dlink 624, I guess I might be better off getting a dwl-g810 from dlink. Is that a good idea?

Thanks
According to Belkin (and what this thread has confirmed on a limited scale) the 7230 will only bridge to Belkin 7230 and 7130. That is what Gunny has. Read the whole thread for more details. :D

[JWThiers]

good point
I'll add my Router Mac Addreses into each one and see if it make a difference. MRV is plenty fast for me and I get about 1600KBps doing that thing we aren't supposed to talk about.
Just one of those "I wonder" moments

[merlincc]

After giving up for the night I am back at it.

I will try to do this 1 Belkin at a time.

Belkin #1 (F5D7230-4 v. 3000):

Patched to Netgear router.
Set up as AP with IP of 192.168.0.10/255.255.255.0
Wireless channel = 11
SSID = Belkin
Wireless = 54G-only
Broadcast SSID = not checked
Turbo Mode = off
Protected Mode = off
Security Mode = disabled
Enable Wireless Bridging = checked

This seems to work when I connect my PC to the Belkin directly. I have internet access.

Is this correct?

[JWThiers]

After giving up for the night I am back at it.

I will try to do this 1 Belkin at a time.

Belkin #1 (F5D7230-4 v. 3000):

Patched to Netgear router.
Set up as AP with IP of 192.168.0.10/255.255.255.0
Wireless channel = 11
SSID = Belkin
Wireless = 54G-only
Broadcast SSID = not checked
Turbo Mode = off
Protected Mode = off
Security Mode = disabled
Enable Wireless Bridging = checked

This seems to work when I connect my PC to the Belkin directly. I have internet access.

Is this correct?
Is this a wired or wireless connection to the netgear?

[Gunnyman]

I just found out that the ROUTERS won't bridge to each other.
I had to send Eddyj out shopping again. He's going to buy 2 7130s and bridge them to the Belkin router.

[merlincc]

Is this a wired or wireless connection to the netgear?

It is wired. I have my pc then wired to the Belkin and it works.

I am asking if this is the correct way to set up 1 of 3 Belkin routers so I can move on to Belkin #2 which doesn't seem to connect to Belkin #1. Hence my question on weather this is set up correctly.

Thanks.

[JWThiers]

It is wired. I have my pc then wired to the Belkin and it works.

I am asking if this is the correct way to set up 1 of 3 Belkin routers so I can move on to Belkin #2 which doesn't seem to connect to Belkin #1. Hence my question on weather this is set up correctly.

Thanks.
I was asking if it was wired or not because these belkins don't seem to play nice with other brands, at leasts wirelessly. I would say to at least temporarily take the netgear out of the equation and see if you can get them to connect without that as a factor. As you can see by the gunny's last post the routers don't seem to act as WAP very well and you might need get the actual WAP's (7130 I think). But we have been trying to use these as bridges in this thread. I don't have any of this hardware yet, just investigating prior to my venture into wireless MRV with a D*Tivo, just passing on what has been talked about by the others.

[merlincc]

Finally! After putzing with it all day I got it working! :D :up:

Here is my setup with details:

1 Netgear WGT624 router wired to DSL modem. This is serving DHCP to my network. It is set up as 192.168.0.1/255.255.255.0

1 Belkin (#1) F5D7230-4 v. 3000 wired to Netgear router. It is set up as AP with ip of 192.168.0.10. Wireless bridge is turned on. Mac addresses (here is the key as discussed here and The Ultimate Wireless Network (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=2764372&&#post2764372) ) are the mac addresses of the 2 Belkin routers I am setting up for my Tivo's. There are 4 in all, 2 for each router. It has a SSID also assigned.

1 Belkin (#2) F5D7230-4 v. 2000 wired to Tivo #1. It is set up as AP with ip of 192.168.0.11. Wireless bridge is turned on. Mac addresses are the 2 addresses from Belkin #1. It has a SSID also assigned (same as Belkin #1).

1 Belkin (#3) F5D7230-4 v. 2000 wired to Tivo #1. It is set up as AP with ip of 192.168.0.12. Wireless bridge is turned on. Mac addresses are the 2 addresses from Belkin #1. It has a SSID also assigned (same as Belkin #1).

Anyone need advice let me know.

Off to test MRV.

[Lopey]

This is how I set mine up, which may be different then you Merlinn.

1 belkin is set as a router wired to my linksys which is running the DHCP. Gave that a static IP of 192.168.80.2

Set up Belkin 2 as an AP with an address of 192.168.80.3 and wired to to my Xbox and Tivo

Set up Belkin 3 as an AP with an address of 192.168.80.4 and wired to my tivo

On Belkin 1 I go to the bridge section and put in the WAN Mac addresses of Belkins 2 and 3
Made sure that Belkin 1, 2, and 3 were all on the same wireless channel and I was good to go. I gave them all different SSID's. 1 is main, 2 is lrtivo, 3 is brtivo, so the SSID's have nothing to do with it.. The most important parts are putting the WAN mac, and not the lan mac into the Bridge section of number 1, and making sure all there are on the same channel. I have had them up since Thursday and they are working flawlessly.

You don't need both Mac addresses from the AP's which is great, because it gives you room to add 2 more bridges if you need it. I posted my speed in a previous post so you can see that it does work this way.

[Gunnyman]

TCP STREAM TEST to 192.168.1.106
Recv Send Send Utilization Service Demand
Socket Socket Message Elapsed Send Recv Send Recv
Size Size Size Time Throughput local remote local remote
bytes bytes bytes secs. 10^6bits/s % S % S us/KB us/KB

131070 131070 131070 10.16 7.66 41.81 66.30 447.295 709.299


and
TCP STREAM TEST to 192.168.1.102
Recv Send Send Utilization Service Demand
Socket Socket Message Elapsed Send Recv Send Recv
Size Size Size Time Throughput local remote local remote
bytes bytes bytes secs. 10^6bits/s % S % S us/KB us/KB

131070 131070 131070 10.35 5.84 62.43 33.19 875.288 465.395


thats mine with routers at each Tivo in bridge mode bridged to a 7130 WAP.

[Lopey]

What is the command you used to run that test? Yours says an IP address, mine says local host.

[Gunnyman]

I used netperf as installed by rbautch's enhancement script

[Lopey]

Thats what I did to, and I specified the IP address... strange. I'll have to try again.

[Gunnyman]

did you type speed to start it? or netperf?

[Lopey]

netperf

[Gunnyman]

try using the speed alias, I thnk it passes the IP you set up when you installed the script in teh 1st place.
I just type speed at the bash prompt everything else is automagic

[merlincc]

TCP STREAM TEST to 192.168.0.20
Recv Send Send Utilization Service Demand
Socket Socket Message Elapsed Send Recv Send Recv
Size Size Size Time Throughput local remote local remote
bytes bytes bytes secs. 10^6bits/s % S % S us/KB us/KB

131070 131070 131070 10.21 5.68 39.94 33.42 575.890 481.883
and
TCP STREAM TEST to 192.168.0.21
Recv Send Send Utilization Service Demand
Socket Socket Message Elapsed Send Recv Send Recv
Size Size Size Time Throughput local remote local remote
bytes bytes bytes secs. 10^6bits/s % S % S us/KB us/KB

131070 131070 131070 10.12 6.40 34.58 33.17 442.733 424.712

Here are my speed results.

[Lopey]

I should have known better than to mess around with my bridges.. now one of them, when I have it plugged in and the main belkin plugged into my linksys, it shuts down the internet if I unplug the cable going to the main belkin internet restores. Just a question.. not asking anyone to try this, just wondering what your setup is. Do you have WEP running now? You only put the MAC address's of the bridges into the main Belkin, you don't put it into the other one..correct?

[Gunnyman]

FWIW,
I am not running WEP as I have no neighbors with wireless and anybody wanting to do any wardriving would only get to my tivos since I am wired on teh rest of my network and have internet acceess set by MAC address.
MY Belkin network setup is opposite from hat you describe, maybe I'm lucky all of ths works, but who knows..
I have the MAC address of my 7130 WAP entered in my Router's Bridge setup page and "only allow theses to connect" checked
I have my 7130 just in WAP mode, I have wireless bridging disabled on it.

[Dan Collins]

I had an opportunity to pick up a Netgear WGE111 Game Adapter cheap, and so have replaced the Motorola bridge. So, the configuration is as follows:

Tivo #1 attached to a DLink DWL2100AP running in Client mode.

Tivo #2 attached to a Netgear WGE111 Game Adapter.

Both are associated with a Netgear WGR614 Wireless Router running in AP mode only (no WAN connection). I am running with WPA-PSK.

Tivos #3 and #4 are wired.

To give you all some idea of the performance penalty of going through WPA encryption....

Throughput from TiVo#1 to TiVo #2 (wireless to wireless):TCP STREAM TEST to 192.168.1.52
Recv Send Send Utilization Service Demand
Socket Socket Message Elapsed Send Recv Send Recv
Size Size Size Time Throughput local remote local remote
bytes bytes bytes secs. 10^6bits/s % S % S us/KB us/KB

131070 131070 131070 10.09 7.17 57.68 84.14 659.050 961.362
Throughput from Tivo #2 to Tivo #3 (Netgear wireless to wired):TCP STREAM TEST to 192.168.1.50
Recv Send Send Utilization Service Demand
Socket Socket Message Elapsed Send Recv Send Recv
Size Size Size Time Throughput local remote local remote
bytes bytes bytes secs. 10^6bits/s % S % S us/KB us/KB

131070 131070 131070 10.04 10.56 69.13 43.41 536.177 336.698
Throughput from Tivo #1 to Tivo #3 (DLink wireless to wired):TCP STREAM TEST to 192.168.1.50
Recv Send Send Utilization Service Demand
Socket Socket Message Elapsed Send Recv Send Recv
Size Size Size Time Throughput local remote local remote
bytes bytes bytes secs. 10^6bits/s % S % S us/KB us/KB

131070 131070 131070 10.08 10.70 70.23 44.79 537.609 342.896
Finally, from TiVo #4 to TiVo #3 (wired to wired):TCP STREAM TEST to 192.168.1.50
Recv Send Send Utilization Service Demand
Socket Socket Message Elapsed Send Recv Send Recv
Size Size Size Time Throughput local remote local remote
bytes bytes bytes secs. 10^6bits/s % S % S us/KB us/KB

131070 131070 131070 10.04 13.87 69.33 53.76 409.469 317.502
So, it looks like the conclusion is that each WPA encryption/decryption pass costs about 3Mbits/sec (7Mbps with 2 passes, 10Mbps with one, and 13Mbps with none).

FYI: here is the topology of my network (PC and servers removed, just TiVos, switches and routers).
http://www.dbsforums.com/images/topology.jpg

[ashu]

ZzzzzzZzzzzz ...

(No offense)

If it works, it works. I've never benchmarked mine since the first few days after setup :)

Now, I just theorize and postulate about others' networks :) And pretend I know what I'm talking about. (shhh)

[Lopey]

Dan.... You have FIOS.... I'm jealous..... How is that upload speeds on that?

[juanian]

OK - I'm going to take the plunge. Let me get this straight - to connect one wireless TiVo to a home network with one other wired TiVo, I can use two Belkin 7230's, one as a router, and the other as a bridge, and I'll be able to HMO MRV transfer shows between them (and to/from a PC), right? It sure is cheaper than spending $70-$100 on a single gaming adapter. (I currently have a Linksys WRT54G, but I'll take that out and replace it with one of the Belkins.)

(Drat - the 7230's are back up to $40.)

[ashu]

Both 7230's as bridges, with one wired in (patched) to your wired network. use one of the 4 ports (not WAN, although, oddly, even that works - making it a 5-port switch in bridged/non-routing mode).

[Dirac]

I'm beginning to look at this too, as a replacement for my wireless b/WEP network (that seems to lose wireless connectivity every couple of days!). It appears the 7231 supports WPA, while the 7230 does not. Are there any other differences?

[juanian]

I'm beginning to look at this too, as a replacement for my wireless b/WEP network (that seems to lose wireless connectivity every couple of days!). It appears the 7231 supports WPA, while the 7230 does not. Are there any other differences?I set up a system using a Belkin F5D7230-4, and it supported WPA. (I don't know what version it was, though.) Do the older versions not support WPA (and are they flash-upgradable to do so)?

[juanian]

Both 7230's as bridges, with one wired in (patched) to your wired network. use one of the 4 ports (not WAN, although, oddly, even that works - making it a 5-port switch in bridged/non-routing mode).OK, sorry if this question seems pretty basic, but I just want to be sure before I go out and buy the routers: is it possible to set it up with one of the Belkins as the main router (connected to the cable modem and doing the local DHCP), and the other as a wireless bridge (with four wired ports in the same subnet as the "router" Belkin)? (I'd really like to use the port forwarding/renumbering abilities of the Belkin and relegate my Linksys to something else.)

Thanks

[Gunnyman]

It's been my experience and YMMV because when it comes to networking, I'm pretty stupid, you can't bridge a a Belkin router to anything but a Belkin WAP.

[juanian]

I'm beginning to look at this too, as a replacement for my wireless b/WEP network (that seems to lose wireless connectivity every couple of days!). It appears the 7231 supports WPA, while the 7230 does not. Are there any other differences?I set up a system using a Belkin F5D7230-4, and it supported WPA. (I don't know what version it was, though.) Do the older versions not support WPA (and are they flash-upgradable to do so)?Whoa! I just checked the Belkin website, and it seems like there is a totally different router called "F5D7230-4". The one I had was wider, with two antennas, The Belkin website shows a more square router with one antenna. The downloadable manual lists WPA (and shows the two-antenna case), but the main Belkin page just says WEP. Now I'm confused!

[Gunnyman]

there are several flavors of that belkin router, versions above 3000 don't bridge.

All that info is in this thread back a few pages.

[juanian]

It's been my experience and YMMV because when it comes to networking, I'm pretty stupid, you can't bridge a a Belkin router to anything but a Belkin WAP.So, is it your thought that 7230s can be used as a bridge-bridge combo, but not a router-bridge combo?!? (Does the 7230 in "Bridge" mode act like a WAP? Lopey (on 10-24-2005) seemed to indicate that it could.)

(ooh, my head hurts!)

[Gunnyman]

best thing to do to avoid frustration, is this:
get a 7130 wap
get the routers and bridge them to it.
I have one of each of the routers at my tivos both bridged to the 7130 WAP.

[juanian]

there are several flavors of that belkin router, versions above 3000 don't bridge.

All that info is in this thread back a few pages.Sorry, maybe my terminology is what is messed up (what's the difference between a bridge and a WAP?). I guess what I am trying to do is make one 7230 a normal router, and the other 7230 a WAP (that would support up to 4 wired devices). Based on what merlincc said, v.3000 can be a WAP, and I'll assume that it would work with a Belkin as the main router.

Does anyone know if the v.3000 is the one-antenna model (see Belkin page (http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Merchant_Id=&Product_Id=136493#)) or the two-antenna model (see BestBuy page (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7012412&type=product&id=1099392876098))?

Also, would the "newer" 7230 use different firmware than the "older" 7230? There is only one set of firmware listed on the Belkin site for the 7230 (or does the updater install a different version of firmware depending on the hardware version)? Oddly, a screenshot I made of the version of the 7230 (that I installed for someone else) shows the firmware version as "4.05.03", and a boot version of "2.01.09".

EDIT: Sorry Gunny - our posts seem to be crossing.

[juanian]

OK - re-reading the thread (again) still leaves me confused. I have seen these posts:This is how I set mine up, which may be different then you Merlinn.

1 belkin is set as a router wired to my linksys which is running the DHCP. Gave that a static IP of 192.168.80.2

Set up Belkin 2 as an AP with an address of 192.168.80.3 and wired to to my Xbox and Tivo

Set up Belkin 3 as an AP with an address of 192.168.80.4 and wired to my tivo

. . .And this one, but it lists v3000 as able to be an AP, with wireless bridge:Finally! After putzing with it all day I got it working! :D :up:

Here is my setup with details:

1 Netgear WGT624 router wired to DSL modem. This is serving DHCP to my network. It is set up as 192.168.0.1/255.255.255.0

1 Belkin (#1) F5D7230-4 v. 3000 wired to Netgear router. It is set up as AP with ip of 192.168.0.10. Wireless bridge is turned on. Mac addresses (here is the key as discussed here and The Ultimate Wireless Network (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=2764372&&#post2764372) ) are the mac addresses of the 2 Belkin routers I am setting up for my Tivo's. There are 4 in all, 2 for each router. It has a SSID also assigned.

1 Belkin (#2) F5D7230-4 v. 2000 wired to Tivo #1. It is set up as AP with ip of 192.168.0.11. Wireless bridge is turned on. Mac addresses are the 2 addresses from Belkin #1. It has a SSID also assigned (same as Belkin #1).

1 Belkin (#3) F5D7230-4 v. 2000 wired to Tivo #1. It is set up as AP with ip of 192.168.0.12. Wireless bridge is turned on. Mac addresses are the 2 addresses from Belkin #1. It has a SSID also assigned (same as Belkin #1).

Anyone need advice let me know.

Off to test MRV.Neither of these have a 7230 as the DHCP server.

I have the following setup:
Cable modem connected to Linksys wireless router (which I would like to no longer use);
PC, printer, and TiVo connected to the router;
Mac across the house (within 802.11g range), connected to my TiVo (the Mac acting as a router (but unfortunately putting my TiVo into a different subnet, which disables MRV)).

What I want:
Ability to MRV between TiVos;
Ability to have the PC and Mac in the same subnet as the TiVos (to support TiVo Desktop and Galleon ToGo and GoBack).

So, if I wanted to use a Belkin 7230 as my router (assigning DHCP), would I need the following:
1: A 7230 configured as a router (assigning DHCP) connected to my cable modem:
. PC, Printer, and TiVo wired to router
2: A 7230 configured as an AP directly wired to #1 (with a crossover cable);
3: A 7230 configured as an AP connected wirelessly from the first two:
. TiVo wired to AP (with the ability to add a second TiVo or other device in the future)

Do I really need the second 7230 listed above?

There are so many posts with assumptions, and I'm not sure which ones have been completely validated (unless a subsequent post actually does confirm the assumption).

[mskreis]

I'm new to hacking but would like TWP, MVR, and HMO on my DSR7000. My wireless home network uses a Linksys WAP54G. I have a Netgear FA120 on order but must rely on a wireless connection to my 7000. What would you recommend I use?

Thanks

[Gunnyman]

get a wireless b adapter that is on the approved hardware list at tivo.com
I liked the belkin 5060 when I had to use wireless B

[mskreis]

get a wireless b adapter

Thanks Gunnyman. What would you recommend if I wanted a wireless g adapter?

[Gunnyman]

for wireless G you are looking at a wired adapter to a wireless bridge or a wireless gaming adapter.. Tivo's support for wireless G is no worky.

[Dan Collins]

Dan.... You have FIOS.... I'm jealous..... How is that upload speeds on that?
Upload is a very reliable 1.8Mbps (sometimes a bit higher, never lower). Some parts of Long Island are testing 15/5 service. We're hoping it gets rolled out elsewhere. The 15 down is great - we never think about bandwidth anymore. Most sites can't feed you a file that fast, but you can get multiple downloads going at once.

[juanian]

. . .
So, if I wanted to use a Belkin 7230 as my router (assigning DHCP), would I need the following:
1: A 7230 configured as a router (assigning DHCP) connected to my cable modem:
. PC, Printer, and TiVo wired to router
2: A 7230 configured as an AP directly wired to #1 (with a crossover cable);
3: A 7230 configured as an AP connected wirelessly from the first two:
. TiVo wired to AP (with the ability to add a second TiVo or other device in the future)

Do I really need the second 7230 listed above?
I guess the silence means that I do need to buy three of the Belkin 7230 routers to do what I want to do.

[Gunnyman]

well like I have already said in this thread (a coupl of times now) it's been MY experience that the 7230-4 Routers won't bridge TO EACH OTHER. I had to put a 7130 Wireless Access Point in the mix.
EddyJ attempted the same setup using all Belkin Routers and they wouldn't bridge properly until he added the WAP.

[juanian]

OK - I think I've got it. My three-7230 setup is needed if I want to use the 7230s. Or, I could use my Linksys WRT54G as my router, with one Belkin wired to it (as a bridge), and the other remote (as a bridge).

Thanks for your info Gunny. I can't find a 7130 right now, and the 7230's are relatively cheap, so I was hoping I could just go with them.

Lopey, what are your thoughts. Since you appear to have been successful with using just the 7230's? Can your two TiVos "see" each other via MRV? Are your Belkin 2 and Belkin 3 both remote (not wired to your Belkin 1)? If I don't need two remote sites, could I wire one of my TiVos to Belkin 1 and do away with Belkin 3 (and still support MRV)?

merlincc, is your success is because you are using a non-7230 as your router? (I'd rather use a 7230 as my router, beause the Linksys WRT54G doesn't do port redirection with renumbering without installing non-Linksys firmware.) (Also, is your "Belkin (#3)" connected to your TiVo #2 -- your post says TiVo #1?)

Thanks all, and sorry for the confusion. I know even less about networking than Gunny did when he started playing with these things :) .

[merlincc]

merlincc, is your success is because you are using a non-7230 as your router? (I'd rather use a 7230 as my router, beause the Linksys WRT54G doesn't do port redirection with renumbering without installing non-Linksys firmware.) (Also, is your "Belkin (#3)" connected to your TiVo #2 -- your post says TiVo #1?)

I am using the 3 Belkin solution because I have used my netgear for about 3 years and I am used to the setup screens and such and since I host many different domains I didn't want to mess with a new router setup so I wouldn't disrupt any users on my system.

Belkin #3 does connect to Tivo #2.

I have been running in this configuration without one hiccup for a week now. Beats the multiple problems I had with the Motorolas.

[Lopey]

Lopey, what are your thoughts. Since you appear to have been successful with using just the 7230's? Can your two TiVos "see" each other via MRV? Are your Belkin 2 and Belkin 3 both remote (not wired to your Belkin 1)? If I don't need two remote sites, could I wire one of my TiVos to Belkin 1 and do away with Belkin 3 (and still support MRV)?

Here is my setup again. Because I have a Linksys wireless router that also acts as my att CallVantage Telephone adapter, I couldn't take it out. So, I have my linksys wired directly to a 7230. Then I have two tivos connected to separate 7230's that are bridged to the 1 7230 that connects directly to the linksys. I have been working flawlessly except for when I was experimenting. I still want to do more, but I'm afraid to screw things up again. The advantage, which may be overkill, but I now have 4 wireless access points in my house to chose from when I'm walking around with my laptop. If you are going to wire one of your tivo's to the main belkin, then you only need 2.

[ashu]

uh, Gunny? I have FOUR 7230-4 all bridged ogether. But, no, none of them is ALSO simultaneously routing or serving DHCP.

In AP mode, 4 7230-04 will bridge together perfectly happily.

juanian - for your needs, you could eschew belkin 1 (and use the Linksys instead) and patch it to Belkin 2, and wirelessly bridge THAT to Belkin 3.

[Gunnyman]

we tried every possible combo with Eddyj.
We must have missed something.

[VideoTAPeD]

Guys I know its fun to play with wireless setups, and I've done it between bulidings for computer networks using LinkSys and D-link, ... until spring came and we could run a cable. Wouldn't it just be easier, cheaper, and more reliable to get into the crawl space or attic and run the wires correctly? (You could even pull an RG-6 or 2)

Sorry thats my electrician background coming out.
Gunnyman... you're still the man.

[juanian]

merlincc -- thanks for your info. You answered the questions about your setup.

Lopey -- Ah - I guess I didn't catch the mention about your Linksys doing the DHCP -- I just saw your first Belkin configured as a router, and my mind blanked everthing else out! :o

ashu -- I agree; based on what I the answers above, it looks like I can do most of what I want by getting two 7230s.

VideoTAPeD -- Unfortunately, I'm in a rental at the moment, and running cables would involve more bureaucracy than I want to deal with at the moment (you should see the lease I had to sign!). I will need to deal with things interfering with my signal, like my neighbor's phones (and possibly chicken wire in the walls!).

Gunnyman -- no problem. With how quirky these routers can be (and how different versions can interact (or, not interact!)), it can take luck to make things work. (I agree -- you did do great job with the unguide; although I haven't used it yet, you are still the man!)


Now, all I have to worry about is the versions of the 7230s I end up with (hmm, 1444, 2000, 3000, ...) and if they'll work together! (Too bad I won't have the port redirecting/renumbering that I was hoping to get :( but I really want to get everything back on the same subnet.)

Thanks again all! I'll let you know my status (once I get everything working).

[VideoTAPeD]

Has anyone tried out the new Pre-N MIMO routers and APs yet? I'd be curious as I'll be adding a couple more Plazma screens and TiVos for a rich customer who has a guest house he's converted to a sports bar and I might need the extra range between it and the main house. (If not I guess its time to bury some cables under the side walks. I'd consider overhead but this is in hurricane country)

[JWThiers]

Guys I know its fun to play with wireless setups, and I've done it between bulidings for computer networks using LinkSys and D-link, ... until spring came and we could run a cable. Wouldn't it just be easier, cheaper, and more reliable to get into the crawl space or attic and run the wires correctly? (You could even pull an RG-6 or 2)
Cheaper and more reliable usually (but not always) but easier not even close. In Fl, most new homes do not have basements or crawl spaces for the easy access below, and if you have block construction or vaulted ceilings (other common features in newer FL homes) you can just about forget about dropping a line inside an exterior wall. An let me tell you their is nothing like crawling through a foot of blown fiberglass for 40 feet each way in August when the attic is 120+ degrees and find out that the drill you were planning on using won't fit between the roof and the top of the wall plate. And if you pay an electrician to do it for you (and sometimes it just can't be done where you want it) there goes that cheaper part too. Moral of the story, If you have the walls of your home open for any reason (new construction, major remodeling or repair) add cat 5 and rg6 (heck add 2 or 3 of each) to at least 1 spot on each wall even if you think you will NEVER need it. :eek:

[Dan Collins]

Has anyone tried out the new Pre-N MIMO routers and APs yet? I'd be curious as I'll be adding a couple more Plazma screens and TiVos for a rich customer who has a guest house he's converted to a sports bar and I might need the extra range between it and the main house. (If not I guess its time to bury some cables under the side walks. I'd consider overhead but this is in hurricane country)if he is rich enough, there are solutions designed speficially for building to building links. They run between $500 and $1000, but they are quite reliable.

[juanian]

. . .
Now, all I have to worry about is the versions of the 7230s I end up with (hmm, 1444, 2000, 3000, ...) and if they'll work together!
. . .OK - I have confirmed with Belkin - v400x of the 7230's won't bridge. (Also, only firmware 04- and 05- will bridge.) Unfortunately, I've only found v4001 models. :( I'll keep looking!

[Dirac]

Inspired by this thread, I took advantage of Circuit City's $39 sale for the Linksys WRT54G to get three of those routers, and a few hours of playing with the DD-WRT firmware got everything talking with each other. Now my DTiVos are connected via wireless G, which is a lot nicer than the B I was using. I'm also using the third router to connect my PS2... way cheaper than those wireless game adapters they charge almost a hundred dollars for.

Also have 3 Netgear FA120s on the way... thanks to all for imparting their wisdom into this thread.

[juanian]

OK - I have confirmed with Belkin - v400x of the 7230's won't bridge. (Also, only firmware 04- and 05- will bridge.) Unfortunately, I've only found v4001 models. :( I'll keep looking!I found a v2000 and v3000 and I was successful in connecting my TiVo via WPA (see http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3503286#post3503286).

[Lopey]

You have WPA enabled and you are still able to bridge? When I enable the security I lose the bridge. I've been wanting to get the security going, I have seen other machines showing up on my DHCP. What do I have to put in the bridged AP's to get this to work?

[Dirac]

WPA-PSK works with WDS on the Linksys WRT54G. I could not get WPA2 to work--I believe the firmware does not yet support it.

I think you were asking about the Belkins but I wanted to add that the Linksys does indeed work with security in place.

[juanian]

You have WPA enabled and you are still able to bridge? When I enable the security I lose the bridge. I've been wanting to get the security going, I have seen other machines showing up on my DHCP. What do I have to put in the bridged AP's to get this to work?Yes, but I have a different key for the bridged Belkins than my main Linksys (if that makes any difference). (I have also disabled the ability for wireless clients to access the WDS wireless, since the laptops all use the Linksys for access.)

EDIT: I should have made it clearer in my original post, but I have a different key and SSID for the bridges. I would suspect that using the same SSID and different keys would certainly cause confusion and could lead to not being able to connect.

[ebetzler]

I have read this entire thread twice.
Being the last post was 3 months ago, I wanted to get a recent clarification..
Will this setup work?

WRT54G
||
|| (hard-wired)
||
F5D7230-4

>>>>>>>>wirelessG<<<<<<<<<<

F5D7230-4
||
|| (hard-wired)
||
DLINK DUB E-100
||
|| (USB2.0)
||
TIVO

(repeat for any additional TIVOs)

And the 7230's all have to be v3000 or earlier?
Where is the best deal these days?

[Gunnyman]

the Belkin router will not BRIDGE to anything but a another Belkin Router or Belkin Wireless Access Point (WAP).
This thread went all over the place didn't it?
Good times.. Good times...

[ebetzler]

Where's the best place to buy these right now?
Everything I find is v4000
I have a feeling I might end up on EBAY, would prefer local so I can debug and return if necessary though.

[Gunnyman]

ebay it is,
I haven't seen these things locally for awhile

[Yog-Sothoth]

the Belkin router will not BRIDGE to anything but a another Belkin Router or Belkin Wireless Access Point (WAP).

Actually, the Belkins will bridge to a WRT54G that uses the same chipset.

My current setup is

1) WRT54GS (wireless disabled)

2) Motorola WA840G access point (connected to #1)

3) Samsung TiVo connected to #1 with a USB200M

4) WRT54G version 4 set to WET mode (using Tofu 13c, a HyperWRT variation; connected to #2)

5) Samsung TiVo connected to #2 with a USB200M and #4

6) Philips Tivo connected to #2 with a Hawking WU250 (802.11b USB), which doesn't exactly work when trying to use MRV with #5, as it slows down the entire network to 802.11b.

Instead of looking/calling all over town for another WRT54G version 4, I'm going to try a Belkin 54G access point tomorrow (at OfficeMax for $34). If needed, I may enable the wireless on the WRT54GS and have it connect to that. While I'm at OfficeMax, I'll pick up a Belkin F5D5050 USB ethernet adapter for $25. Maybe I'll get lucky and find a WRT54G version 4 while I'm there.

[ebetzler]

And I thought my head couldn't spin anymore :)

[Yog-Sothoth]

[UPDATE]

I tried to get the Belkin working with my setup, but since I didn't have an old version of the WRT54G to connect to, I decided to return it. I thought about swapping it for the Belkin 54G router (same clearance price at OfficeMax) and loading Sveasoft firmware on it, but since I would have had to pay $20 for the subscription, I just returned the access point. Instead, I picked up a WRT54GS (a version 2, I believe). I immediately loaded it with Thibor 13d and set it to WET mode. I actually chose one that was an older version and that had been opened over a newer one with the shrink wrap still on (the new versions have less RAM).

Next problem: the Belkin F5D5050 USB ethernet adapter didn't light up on any of the TiVos I tried. Needless to say, I was a bit frustrated. After quite a bit of research, I figured out that it was USB 1.1 and not 2.0, so I had to re-install PTVNet to get it to work. MRV transfers are slightly faster than real time, so I'm not sure if I'll return it or not. At least I now have all of my TiVos sharing programs and using HMO.

[Dirac]

Sveasoft is not your only option for Linksys firmware. I'm using DD-WRT--it's free, open source, and has a really good support forum.

[Yog-Sothoth]

Sveasoft is not your only option for Linksys firmware.

???

The reference to Sveasoft was for a Belkin router, which has less flash RAM than a WRT54G with the same chipset.

If you read my posts again, you'll see references to "Tofu" and "Thibor," which are modified versions of HyperWRT.

After my wife commented on how slow transfers were from my kid's TiVo, I returned the Belkin adapter and got another Linksys USB200M.