New Tivo - picture quality stinks

[wjdennen]

Hi there,

I've had a series 1 Tivo for a few years. It's worked well.

I took advantage of a Circuit City special a couple of months ago and have upgraded to a Series 2 box. Hooking it up was easy because I basically removed the old Tivo and put the new one in it's place. Same cables and all.

But, the picture quality on the new box stinks. It's got some snow and the picture is not sharp. The quality is definitely worse than the old box.

I should say that the picture quality for the Tivo menus and startup video is fine. The problem I see is with live TV and recorded video.

I am using RF in, and I tried toggling the option for RF video in the settings and this did not help the situation. I've also tightened all cables.

Any ideas? Could the tuner in the box just be "bad"?

(TV is watchable, but the picture quality is just not as good as I'd expect.)

Thanks.

[wscannell]

What model TiVo did you get?

What source are you using for video (cable, cable box, or off-the-air antenna)?

Are you looking at live TV or a recorded program? For standalone TiVos, the recording quality can be set. You can easily notice artifacts until you get to High quality. The live TV buffer records at either best quality or if something is recording, the buffer is recorded in the same quality as the show being recorded.

RF is the worst quality for connections. If your TV has video/audio inputs, you should be using those. S-Video is even better than the composite RCA connection.

[wjdennen]

Sorry. I have the Tivo 40-hour model (series 2).

Source is Cable TV (RF).

From the Tivo box, I'm using A/V to my receiver... and then A/V to my TV. (RCA)

The problem is with Live TV and recorded programs. I'm most concerned about Live TV.

Thanks-
Bill

What model TiVo did you get?

What source are you using for video (cable, cable box, or off-the-air antenna)?

Are you looking at live TV or a recorded program? For standalone TiVos, the recording quality can be set. You can easily notice artifacts until you get to High quality. The live TV buffer records at either best quality or if something is recording, the buffer is recorded in the same quality as the show being recorded.

RF is the worst quality for connections. If your TV has video/audio inputs, you should be using those. S-Video is even better than the composite RCA connection.

[mick66]

Hi there,

I've had a series 1 Tivo for a few years. It's worked well.

I took advantage of a Circuit City special a couple of months ago and have upgraded to a Series 2 box. Hooking it up was easy because I basically removed the old Tivo and put the new one in it's place. Same cables and all.

But, the picture quality on the new box stinks. It's got some snow and the picture is not sharp. The quality is definitely worse than the old box.


Did you check the RF cable line connections? Maybe they need a little tightening. If that doesn't solve the problem maybe a powered signal amplifier for your cable line will do the trick.

[BLeonard]

I think the point here is he had a series 1 in place and the video quality was good. All he did was put a series 2 in it's place with the same setup and noticed a degradation in quality.

I'd be interested in responses to this as all three of my Tivo's are series 1's and I've thought about getting a series 2 but wouldn't want to experience a drop in picture quality.

[wjdennen]

Thanks. Yes, the issue is that I just swapped a series 2 in for a series 1 box. The series 1 box had a much better picture.

(I did re-check the cables)

[dylanemcgregor]

It seems the consensus here when the Series 2 came out was that the picture was slightly worse than the Series 1. Something to do with a cheaper video encoder, or something like that. Most people didn't notice, including me when my step-dad upgraded on his 60 inch TV. Your problem sounds worse then what I've seen reported before, which has been mostly reports from self confessed videophiles. If S-video is an option with your TV I would try to give that a try, if it isn't and you are still within your 90 day warranty, I'd try to exchange it for a new unit and see if you still have the same problems.

-Dylan

[dgh]

It seems the consensus here when the Series 2 came out was that the picture was slightly worse than the Series 1.

I would call that the majority opinion rather than the consensus. I recall there being approximately as many people reporting no difference and a substantial minority who called the S2 better.

"Snow" indicates a weak RF single. Since this is all analog stuff, and no two tuners are exactly the same, I would agree that a cable amp - or calling the cable company to clean up the signal could help.

Also, I noticed that people who said there was no difference where far more likely to have said that they had a calibrated TV than people who saw a difference. So, running a calibration disk like Avia or VE may also help a lot.

[Nfuego]

Thanks. Yes, the issue is that I just swapped a series 2 in for a series 1 box. The series 1 box had a much better picture.

(I did re-check the cables)

What default video setting do you have turned on? Live TV is still buffered and encoded, so if you are using the lowest or next to lowest video setting, they picture quality will be slightly bad.

If you bump it up to high or best, it will look a lot better.

[dylanemcgregor]

What default video setting do you have turned on? Live TV is still buffered and encoded, so if you are using the lowest or next to lowest video setting, they picture quality will be slightly bad.

If you bump it up to high or best, it will look a lot better.

I don't think this is entirely correct. Live TV is being recorded, but as far as I know, it always uses the 'Best' setting regardless of what your default recording level is set at. You can see this yourself if you hit record when you have part of a show in the buffer, you get the option to record the whole thing at best quality, or dump the buffer and record the rest at your default recording level.

-Dylan

[dylanemcgregor]

I would call that the majority opinion rather than the consensus. I recall there being approximately as many people reporting no difference and a substantial minority who called the S2 better.

I thought the technical people on the forum who actually looked at the insides decided there was some objective reason why picture quality would be a little worse on S2, that is what I meant by a consensus, but you did catch my next line about most people not noticing a difference right. ;)

I've got the Humax DRT800 and can say the PQ on that when hooked up via component is much better than my S1 hooked up via coax.

-Dylan

[dgh]

I thought the technical people on the forum who actually looked at the insides decided there was some objective reason why picture quality would be a little worse on S2,

There is different hardware and both encoders are largely controlled by parameters set in software. (Which were adjusted in the next two releases causing some people to say it was "fixed" and others to disagree.)

Some people who felt that the quality was worse naturally gravitated towards the idea that it must be the different hardware. And someone asserted (without actual data as I recall) that the new encoder was cheaper than the old encoder and for some people that fact alone made it obvious that it must be the cause.

I did see the next line, but I don't agree that the consensus was that that the picture is slightly worse but most people don't notice. Some people think it's a LOT worse. Some people thinks it's better (in one case the expression "blows away" was used.) Some people who I respect for having a lot of home theater knowledge compared side by side at closer-than-normal distances and could identify differences in the encoding but couldn't decide which one was better overall.

[Nfuego]

I don't think this is entirely correct. Live TV is being recorded, but as far as I know, it always uses the 'Best' setting regardless of what your default recording level is set at. You can see this yourself if you hit record when you have part of a show in the buffer, you get the option to record the whole thing at best quality, or dump the buffer and record the rest at your default recording level.

-Dylan

That makes sense! My mistake!

[dylanemcgregor]

There is different hardware and both encoders are largely controlled by parameters set in software. (Which were adjusted in the next two releases causing some people to say it was "fixed" and others to disagree.)

Some people who felt that the quality was worse naturally gravitated towards the idea that it must be the different hardware. And someone asserted (without actual data as I recall) that the new encoder was cheaper than the old encoder and for some people that fact alone made it obvious that it must be the cause.

I did see the next line, but I don't agree that the consensus was that that the picture is slightly worse but most people don't notice. Some people think it's a LOT worse. Some people thinks it's better (in one case the expression "blows away" was used.) Some people who I respect for having a lot of home theater knowledge compared side by side at closer-than-normal distances and could identify differences in the encoding but couldn't decide which one was better overall.

Thanks for the clarification dgh. I'm sure that this is obvious by now, but I'm not that technically inclined, so I was just passing on information that I had read repeatedly here. Didn't mean to contribute to the spread of misinformation. :)

-Dylan

[dgh]

Didn't mean to contribute to the spread of misinformation. :)

It was really just the word "consensus" that set me off :D. I read a zillion posts back then and I couldn't detect anything like a consensus. The "average" of the posts might have been that the S1 was slightly worse. But then, given the nature of a help forum and how people with an issue are far more likely to show up, I'm not sure how meaningful that is.

[dylanemcgregor]

It was really just the word "consensus" that set me off :D. I read a zillion posts back then and I couldn't detect anything like a consensus. The "average" of the posts might have been that the S1 was slightly worse. But then, given the nature of a help forum and how people with an issue are far more likely to show up, I'm not sure how meaningful that is.

I was a lurker back when the S2 came out, so I read some of these threads, but most of what I remember came from much later, which was probably people reporting on what other people had reported on... anyway, I'm much too removed from knowing what I'm talking about to have anything else useful to say.

Bill, I hope you are able to get your new S2 unit to produce an acceptable picture for you. Let us know if you figure out what the problem is.

-Dylan

[ccwf]

It seems the consensus here when the Series 2 came out was that the picture was slightly worse than the Series 1. That's true, but it and the other posts above about the differences are irrelevant to the original poster's problem. I don't want to confuse issues.

Snow indicates some other problem going on. The Series2 encoder definitely does not cause snow to magically appear.

[JS2003]

My S2 Tivo didn't have the best picture, and I bought a $20 cable booster from Radio Shack and it helped noticeably. Well worth the $$.

JS2003

[BLeonard]

I'm getting ready to buy an HDTV and am concerned about how my series 1 Tivos will look on it. I don't think I'm going to get a series 2 if it will look even worse.

[pro5mark]

I too have bad picture quality.

I’ve been running a series 2 on a 35” TV from cable with no noticeable degradation of picture quality, but our TV recently went out. After many negotiations with the wife, she agreed to let me replace it with a new HDTV and convert to satellite. Now after the new HDTV and all the equipment is installed and set up the wife isn’t happy. The picture quality straight from the satellite receiver to the TV is excellent, clear and bright and no graininess, but when I the route the feed through the TiVo, picture quality is horrible, even the TiVo menus are grainy, this is unacceptable according to the wife. You see my wife loves the TiVo, and could not live without it (her words) and during the negotiations I assured her that the TiVo would still work. Guys please help me save my marriage.

Here is my setup.

Sony 50” LCD HDTV
Dish Network HD receiver 811
TiVo series 2

Dish receiver to TiVo – s video
TiVo to TV – s video

Every thing is recorded in best quality, and the TV was calibrated with Avia.

[niicceem]

I have been a Tivo series 1 owner for a long time. Decided it was time to upgrade to something with a DVD recorder/Tivo combo for space saving and ease DVD backup of shows. After purchasing the DRT400 (of course it will be upgraded with bigger HD!) I hooked it up to my system. I immediately noticed the picture quality, including the graphics being very poor (very noticeable graininess on the text). Note that I am not videophile at all but even without a side by side comparison to my series 1 you can tell there is something wrong.

What I have is:
Motorola DCT2000 Cable box->Tivo->Home theatre Receiver->TV (all using RCA connections)

Also tried:
Motorola DCT2000 Cable box->Tivo->TV (all using RCA connections)

Both setups are equally as bad! Just switching out the Humax for the older series 1 Tivo immediately results in better picture.

I tried both an LCD TV and regular 19” CRT with similar results. The DRT400 is still at 5.x software will a software update fix the picture quality? I've heard some people talk about calibrating etc. will this improve the graphics also? Any hints?

[buddybob]

I bought a series 2 tivo in 2003 and returned it after 3 days because of poor picture quality. I thought maybe because of my 50" DLP, it was not going to get any better.

I purchased a Series 2 on thursday [$69 with rebate] and have it hooked up to a 36" Sony tube TV. This TV shows an awesome picture - "not so on the Tivo". the picture is grainy and not as bright. It's the same problem as 3 years ago, but on a different TV. I have TimeWarner cable. I have the tivo connected on a separate coax cable (no splitter). I might add that I also have TW Dvr and it does not degrade the picture one bit. Hopefully the Series 3 will correct this problem, and 'IT IS' a problem. I have been reading the same complaints for the past three years and it is not a ' loose connetion, signal strenth problem' as many would lead you to believe.

[JacksTiVo]

An easy troubleshooting step to perform is to reinstall your Series 1 to confirm that it still produces a good picture. That will confirm that the Series 2 is either defective or not as good as the Series 1.

Do you have many coax splitters between your incoming cable point of entry and your TV with TiVo? A good cable amplifier at the cable entry point and on the line to your TV will significantly improve a snowy picture. Several years ago I installed a commercial grade (not a Radio Shack model) unit purchased on Ebay and it significantly improved on my TV reception.

[ThreeSoFar'sBro]

An easy troubleshooting step to perform is to reinstall your Series 1 to confirm that it still produces a good picture. That will confirm that the Series 2 is either defective or not as good as the Series 1.

Do you have many coax splitters between your incoming cable point of entry and your TV with TiVo? A good cable amplifier at the cable entry point and on the line to your TV will significantly improve a snowy picture. Several years ago I installed a commercial grade (not a Radio Shack model) unit purchased on Ebay and it significantly improved on my TV reception.


JACK--what's the make/model of your amplifier? My cable company put one in, but I'm wondering if a higher quality version will improve my picture. Ever since I put in my 62" dlp, the TiVO pic is so dark, I barely use it.

[icmoney]

I have a S2 (540), my only TIVO, and noticed a reduction in pic quality when installed. I simply unhooked my RF cable from TV and connected to TIVO and connected to TV via S-video connector. I had clear sharp pic on TV before TIVO and a slightly snowy pic afterwards with some light herringbone effects on some channels. The problem is not the encoder, it is the unit being equiped with a cheap RF tuner with poor sensitivety.

Then again what should we expect from a discounted $60.00 - $99.00 unit. The quality is acceptable to me for what I paid.

I plan on purchasing the S3 when available.

[dijon]

well i just bought a new series 2 tivo as well and i can confirm that my sony series 1 standalone had a much better picture. i got this new series 2 tivo right before they discontinued the lifetime service which i bought on the second machine. i would consider returning it if i could transfer the service, but it sounds like its not a problem with my individual box, but with the whole product line. (mine is a tivo branded 40 hour box).

dark pictures are the worst, they are blotchy and gray - not black. i'd prefer to just have shadows i can't see than blotchy gray. i'm going to hook up my series 1 again and see if it looks any better. i'm not upset about the $60 on the tivo i blew, but the $299 lifetime service stings a bit when i convinced the wife we needed the new fancy model. also, even when it's disconnected from the cable, the tivo menus show scrolling vertical noise lines and graininess/snow.

[ducker]

also, even when it's disconnected from the cable, the tivo menus show scrolling vertical noise lines and graininess/snow.


I have the same issues when watching live or best quality recorded shows (to be expected at normal or basic)...

But you should never see any artifacts in the Tivo menus... that would point to a problem in the output of your Tivo, the wire you're outputting on, or the video input of your TV.

Just like my case... menus are crisp as can be (connected to received via S-Video) but live TV is a bit fuzzy... I just need an RF amp.

[dijon]

well i've swapped back and forth between S1 and S2 - same wires, same hookups etc.. and the noise is bad. unfortunately, i don't think it's just my box since i've read other people having these issues - many others. and even more unfortunate..i just bought lifetime on it so returning it is a no-go at this point.

comparison from series 1 to series 2 is like dvd to vhs. i don't think a cable amp is going to help me. i'll try a different s-vid cable or even composite and see if it helps.

edited after some tweaks:

ok i've made a bit of progress - not much but some. remember i swapped a series 1 with a series 2 - nothing else - and got a drop in picture quality. however, it seems the series 2 differs a couple of ways, and i'm not sure i fully understand it. anyway.

1. i took the s-video cable that was running behind the cabinet to the receiver and removed it from the floor and disentagled it with the speaker wire. a/c cables etc that was back there. as straight and off the floor and away from other things that i could. that resulted in less dot crawl right off the bat. (this had no effect on the series 1)

2. i connected the tivo series 2 directly to my 42" ED plasma, bypassing my denon av receiver that had been doing the switching. this didn't have too great a result but i think it helped a little.

so this helped a bit with the live tv issue and the noise in the tivo menus but the recording quality on best is still about as good as my series 1 on medium. so hopefully i'll figure something out for that one.

[JacksTiVo]

JACK--what's the make/model of your amplifier? My cable company put one in, but I'm wondering if a higher quality version will improve my picture. Ever since I put in my 62" dlp, the TiVO pic is so dark, I barely use it.
You need an amplifier that has its own power supply which you plug-in to a 120 volt outlet. Also the amplifier has to be at the point of entry of the cable into your home so that you are amplifying the pure cable company's signal before any splitters.

Count the number of splitters you are using through-out your home. Assume about a 2dB loss per splitter. I have about 8 splitters so I purchased a 15 dB amplifier. I recommend you stay away from the "Radio Shack" quality amplifiers and purchase a professional grade unit.

My amplifier is an Electroline EDA 1GR. It comes with a small power supply (plug-in transfomer type). I just checked their Web site: http://www.electroline.com/en/products/drop_amplifiers/index.html and it appears that they have new models. There is a customer service number you can call.

I bought mine on Ebay several years ago from a very knowledgeable person who helped me select the correct model. I have no idea if he is still selling them, but you can do an Ebay or Froogle search for them.

[murgatroyd]

also, even when it's disconnected from the cable, the tivo menus show scrolling vertical noise lines and graininess/snow.

This would suggest to me that you either have a bad TiVo, or something is wrong between the TiVo and the TV. You should not have snow on your TiVo menus.

For more ordinary problems with PQ, make sure all your cabling is good.

I see people post that all their connections are RCA / S-Video but they're forgetting something. Somewhere along the way you are bound to have a piece of coax cable that comes out of the wall and goes into whatever device is first in the chain (in my case my TiVo, in other people's setups, the cable box).

Make sure that run of coax is good quality. We have persistent problems with ghosting on the channels which appear in the cable lineup as the same channel they broadcast on (especially ABC which is on channel 7). But we were able to improve the signal somewhat by using quad-shielded coax between the wall and the first splitter.

Comcast also recommends that all the coax connections be 'wrench tight' but be careful not to do things TOO tightly and strip the threads.

I have two Series 1 TiVos, a Sony and a Philips. With the crap signal we have, the last thing I need is lower PQ. That's one of many reasons I haven't been in a hurry to get a new TiVo.

Jan

[ThreeSoFar'sBro]

Thanks, Jack! I'll have to look tomorrow to see how "strong" my amplifier is. I know it fits the description you gave but not sure if it's strong enough.

THANKS AGAIN!

[Georgia Guy]

I've got my old Sony2000 series 1, and three Tivo branded s2's. I've never seen any difference in picture quality. The only time I had a problem was when I upgraded our living room tv from a Sony 32" to a widescreen HDTV. The new tv really highlighted the picture problems. Solved this by recording at best quality.
But that had nothing to do with the series1 to series 2 debate, just the tv change.

I use an amplifier and when it is unplugged the picture goes from good to horrible, so I know that works. Although my Denon AVR can handle video, I go straight to the tv with the video, figuring one less signal process can't hurt.

[Bytez]

tivo series2 quality compared to my panasonic es15 dvd recorder is a BIG difference. Both are using the same inputs (s=video from digital box to dvdrecorder/tivo). Tivo set to Best Quality on recording. The dvd recorder quality is more clean, crisp, clear, less noise, better colors and higher resolution, 720x480 as opposed to 480x480. Tivo, time to bump up the resolution. Bottom line is that Tivo uses a crappy encoder :down: :down:

[dijon]

just in case my poor s2 picture quality was due to faulty hardware, i borrowed my parents s2 and hooked it up. same exact poor picture. (best on s2 is medium on s1 - i stand by this) so i'm thinking about trying to hack a wireless network card to my series 1 (sony svr2000) so i don't need the phone line - which, after all was one of my favorite s2 features. i did check out some of the home network / web offerings which were cool for about a day, but i'm over that now. it's all about the pq and the s1's encoders are just magnitudes better than the s2.

as for the s2 - it's going to be paired with an old 20" crt tv in the bedroom where it will do negligible harm to my delicate senses!