Will the HR10-250 EVER get the 6.2 Update ??

[DVRaholic]

CrazyFred, ,

You were right on the Money about the 6.2 upgrade starting may 16th. Thanks for letting us know this information.

The Only problem Im having now is with the Update to my SD-DVR40
and SD-DVR80 is Now my HR10-250 is Really Really SLOW!

I know they will start swapping out the HR10-250 near the end of this year for the new MPGE4 receivers, and I will be probably one of the first to get swapped out (NY is market #1)

But I need a Speed increase for the HR10-250 NOW!!!.
It has become "disgustingly" slow. It took me nearly 5 minutes
when scheduling a season pass for the "please wait" to clear the screen.

Since we paid so much for our HD-Tivos the least D* can do is let us ENJOY the next 6 months or so with a faster more Efficient HD-Tivo

From what Ive read on various forums its believed that D* has the Update for the HR10-250 ready to go but they are waiting out the SD update.

Is this true CrazyFred ??? If so are they still planning to send the update soon ???

Any Information will be Greatly Appreciated

Thank You.

[rminsk]

The rumor I heard is that they will start testing a 6.x release for the HR10-250 after the rollout of 6.2 is complete.

[DVRaholic]

The rumor I heard is that they will start testing a 6.x release for the HR10-250 after the rollout of 6.2 is complete.
Thanks rminsk, I know about this rumor also.
The problem is that this Rumor was out before the
announcement of the conversion to MPEG4.

Dan collins has said in his forum wouldn't be surprised if they dont send the update for the HR10-250 since they will be swapping out soon.

I hope this is Not True :(

[DVRaholic]

I,m a bit SURPRISED that as of now with nearly 200 views, NO one else has contributed to this thread..

Im I the ONLY HR10-250 owner that wants to see this 6.2 Upgrade ??!!

Feel free to voice your opinions.... maybe D* will take notice !

[georgemoe]

IMHO, we HR10-250 owners are such a small piece of the pie, I'm guessing we see nothing in the way of an update. Sad.

I wish there was one just for the speed alone. My SD Series1 is light years faster. That shouldn't be.

[CPD]

Yep, I had a 5+ minute wait the other day just picking one show for recording from the guide. I then switched to a music channel and selected another show for recording and it finished in about 20 seconds. This thing really struggles when you have HD channels on both tuners.

Chris

[bahopkins]

I moved from a Series 2 SA unit to an HR10-250 a few months ago. I definitely miss folders! The speed issue isn't that important to me, but having to scroll through the list pulls a major vacuum. :eek:

[k2ue]

The lack of any comment of consequence on 6.x for HD box says one of two things is happening, either:

1. Nothing at all is happening, thus nothing to say, or;

2. There is a beta of 6.x for the HD box underway now, and anybody who knows anything is under NDA.

I wish a little bird would whisper a number in my ear. . .

[Kamakzie]

I would very much welcome the 6.2 upgrade to my HD Tivo. :D

[chris_h]

I,m a bit SURPRISED that as of now with nearly 200 views, NO one else has contributed to this thread..

Im I the ONLY HR10-250 owner that wants to see this 6.2 Upgrade ??!!

Feel free to voice your opinions.... maybe D* will take notice !

I too want to see 6.2 on the HR10-250. But I am not under any illusions that D* will take notice.

[TimGoodwin]

I'm still waiting for it on my SD Directivo let alone my HR10-250. I guess I don't know what I'm missing.

[diagoro]

I don't expect much in the way of an upgrade. I have a 50 " plasma and have never had good sd picture quality. Even the hd looks a bit 'grainy' at times (especially dark areas). Add to that the horrendous lag time. Especially with a plasma where I have to worry about burn in, the damn menus that NEVER seem to go away....

I have several ds tivos that now rock, blazing with their new upgrade. It's sad. I don't know if the hd tivo has grown slower, but I know the disparity between the two has grown considerably.

DirecTV has never taken responsibility for the issues I'm having. I'd love to switch theunit out but also have quite a bit of recorded programming there that never seems to get cleared out. I know, bit the bullet and take the hit. But from what I've read, even a switch would do little good.

In the end it seems we've been lured into buying the dh tivo before it was ready. Not only that, it seems that it was rushed to production to meet demand. End result, crappy box, crappy service....

I don;t expect an upgrade, at least not one that does any good. I believe most of the issues we're having are hardware related, ie, lack of proper memory, hard drive, hdmi interface.....

I'll leave it at that

[luebster]

In the end it seems we've been lured into buying the dh tivo before it was ready. Not only that, it seems that it was rushed to production to meet demand. End result, crappy box, crappy service....
I truly only have two complaints regarding the HDTivo:


It's too slow. We all know that.
Cannot explicitly choose "Only HD programming" for wishlists.


Sure, I'd like it to have CallerID, HMO, MRV, etc., but none of the D* DVRs have that (without hacking, of course).

So, the HDTivo compared to the other D* DVRs holds its own. Assuming the HR10-250 gets a 6.x upgrade, it'll take the cake.

...and yes, I know what happens when you ass-u-me. No flames, please.

[DDayDawg]

I don't expect much in the way of an upgrade. I have a 50 " plasma and have never had good sd picture quality. Even the hd looks a bit 'grainy' at times (especially dark areas). Add to that the horrendous lag time. Especially with a plasma where I have to worry about burn in, the damn menus that NEVER seem to go away....

I have several ds tivos that now rock, blazing with their new upgrade. It's sad. I don't know if the hd tivo has grown slower, but I know the disparity between the two has grown considerably.

DirecTV has never taken responsibility for the issues I'm having. I'd love to switch theunit out but also have quite a bit of recorded programming there that never seems to get cleared out. I know, bit the bullet and take the hit. But from what I've read, even a switch would do little good.

In the end it seems we've been lured into buying the dh tivo before it was ready. Not only that, it seems that it was rushed to production to meet demand. End result, crappy box, crappy service....

I don;t expect an upgrade, at least not one that does any good. I believe most of the issues we're having are hardware related, ie, lack of proper memory, hard drive, hdmi interface.....

I'll leave it at that


So let me understand here. You are getting bad picture quality in both SD and HD? Since this is not something that other HR10-250 owners are reporting I would assume it is your box. The PQ on mine is excellent, amazing in fact.

You throw in a few other comments which show some degree of ignorance about the equipment you are using, for example worrying about burn in because of a menu that gets stuck for five mins.

Then you say that DirecTV won't take responsibility but you refuse to switch out the unit. :confused: What more can they do? They can't make a bad piece of hardware work more than anyone else can. They aren't magicians.

Now, like everyone else I want the upgrade and I get frustrated by the speed and lack of folders. But posts like this drive me crazy because it's a squeaky wheel that detracts away from the real issues. You are the technology equivalent of the little boy who cried wolf. Complaining about fixable problems that you chose not to let the company fix only takes away from the voices of people with real concerns.

I can respect what you have to say about the upgrade. But let DTV at least try to make it right in respect to the other issues. That's not crappy service, that's a crappy customer.

[diagoro]

I must admit that my response was a bit confusing and lacked the full details...

Since I purchased the 10-250 I've had at least five DirecTV techs come to the house and inspect the unit. All tried to push it off on the tv. Odd, seeing as how EVERY other source looked great....

Two of the techs didn't even know what 'hdmi' was, both stating that componant is the 'top tier' of reception.

All I've ever been told is to contact my tv manafacturer, yet you know as well as I do...all they will say is contact the sat company.

The picture continues to look like &*@#^, especially channels like TNT and Fox Sports (especially world and soccer). I'm assuming I should be able to distinguish the players uniform numbers or even faces?????

I have never been given the express option to trade in just yet, only to wait for the update. I'm sure I could stay on the phone for a few hours and haggle my way to one, but all things considered, is it worth my time? I've had other issues as well, lots of blackouts during broadcasts, both definitions and live/recorded. Do I risk getting a refurbished unit with a hard drive/hdmi unit or live with what I have????

I'd appreciate not being called ignorant, especially when you're not here in my house watching my plasm get burned in......and didn't pay a cent. No, I am not the customer who cried wolf. I rarely post here, only doing so when I have a legitimate thought or question/answer.......

It seems that comments like yours are what will detract from the board in the long run....

So thanks

[DDayDawg]

I must admit that my response was a bit confusing and lacked the full details...

Since I purchased the 10-250 I've had at least five DirecTV techs come to the house and inspect the unit. All tried to push it off on the tv. Odd, seeing as how EVERY other source looked great....

Two of the techs didn't even know what 'hdmi' was, both stating that componant is the 'top tier' of reception.

All I've ever been told is to contact my tv manafacturer, yet you know as well as I do...all they will say is contact the sat company.

The picture continues to look like &*@#^, especially channels like TNT and Fox Sports (especially world and soccer). I'm assuming I should be able to distinguish the players uniform numbers or even faces?????

I have never been given the express option to trade in just yet, only to wait for the update. I'm sure I could stay on the phone for a few hours and haggle my way to one, but all things considered, is it worth my time? I've had other issues as well, lots of blackouts during broadcasts, both definitions and live/recorded. Do I risk getting a refurbished unit with a hard drive/hdmi unit or live with what I have????

I'd appreciate not being called ignorant, especially when you're not here in my house watching my plasm get burned in......and didn't pay a cent. No, I am not the customer who cried wolf. I rarely post here, only doing so when I have a legitimate thought or question/answer.......

It seems that comments like yours are what will detract from the board in the long run....

So thanks


People are ignorant about many things. Don't make the mistake of thinking that I am calling you stupid, I am not. At the risk of further straining relations let me ask you a few things.

Who? You say technicians came to your house. Who's technicians? DirecTV does not have any technicians. They have contractors who they hire to install dishes and run cable but I have not heard of them sending people to your house to check equipment. These people they contract with are cable runners/install techs and you are hitting them with a Computer Engineering question. Of course they can't help you.

Did you call DirecTV and tell them there is a problem? Did you ask them to switch out the box? (They have a very good track record on switching out boxes so I can't imagine they would refuse). You talk of staying on the phone for hours, and at times it can be trying, but I don't think that is very accurate. Sure, switching out a $1000 box takes a little bit of time to ensure that they, and you, get what is expected out of the deal. They want to be sure there isn't a easy fix they can't handle over the phone.

DirecTV has been very good about switching bad units out. Some mistakes and some hassle but nothing to wide spread or over the top. I do think it's kinda funny that you are willing to live with something that seems to not work at all instead of risking getting a working refurb unit. I don't understand it in the least but it's funny.

The overall point was that you obviously have not taken the proper steps to get your issue resolved. There are literally hundreds of people on this board who faced similar problems that you are facing and have had DirecTV take care of them. DTV isn't perfect by any means but by complaining about things they have a really good track record of fixing it takes away from the discussion of real issues that could benefit the whole 10-250 community. I'm sorry if you took offense at my use of the word ignorant, that was not my intention.

[Waldorf]

The picture continues to look like &*@#^, especially channels like TNT and Fox Sports (especially world and soccer). I'm assuming I should be able to distinguish the players uniform numbers or even faces?????


Just to make sure.. go into the settings menu and make sure the video setting is set to output 1080i or 720p... Default out of the box, mine was set to 480i and I thought something was setup wrong on my projector at first. Well... TNT isn't HD (yet) but it's still something to check.

[AbMagFab]

I truly only have two complaints regarding the HDTivo:


It's too slow. We all know that.
Cannot explicitly choose "Only HD programming" for wishlists.




You can easily do a wishlist for "Only HD". After doing the title/keyword/actor/whatever, Just pick the category, audio/video, HD.

[luebster]

You can easily do a wishlist for "Only HD". After doing the title/keyword/actor/whatever, Just pick the category, audio/video, HD.
That's a fine idea. The only trouble is, I also like to use the sports/whatever filter as well. Unfortunately, you can't select two filters.

For now, I've removed any SD channels that have a simulcast HD signal (all the nets, ESPN on 206, etc).

I'd be eager to hear another suggestion or perhaps I'm not using yours in the manner you suggest?

[youngcr]

D* is probably BS'ing me, but here's the latest I've gotten from them:

From: Feedback
Sent: 05/19/2005 7:03 AM
To:
Subject: RE: HD 6.2 Upgrade [Incident: XXXXX] [Incident: XXXXXXXXx]

05/19/2005 04:03 AM

Dear,

Thanks for writing. You receiver (HR10-250) is indeed going to have it's 6.2 Software Upgrade. Please refer to previous email for more information regarding the upgrade.

Thanks again for writing and stay tuned to DIRECTVcom for the latest news's and information about our service.

Sincerely,

XXXXX
DIRECTV Customer Service

---------------------------------------------------------------
Original Message Follows:

05/19/2005 03:40 AM



So you're telling me the HR10-250 is getting the upgrade?

-----Original Message-----
From: Feedback
Sent: 05/18/2005 11:32 PM
To:
05/18/2005 08:32 PM

Dear,

Thank you for writing. I am sorry to hear that you have not received the 6.2 upgrade for your DVR. Based on our information, the upgrade will be taking place through June of 2005. To prepare for the upgrade, please make sure you are doing the following:

*Keep phone line connected to receiver.
*Make sure your DVR is making regular callbacks to TiVo.
*When upgrade starts, follow instructions on screen.

After the upgrade, some settings go back to factory defaults:

*My Preferences - Menu item is removed. Most of the options are now in "Settings."
*Favorite Channels - List will be empty.
*Channels You Receive - List is reset so that all channels are checked.
*Channel Banner time out - If customer had changed it to "Clear Banner Quickly," it will go back to "Display Banner Normally."
*Spending Limits - Changed to $10.

I hope that this information is helpful to you. Please let us know if you have any other questions or concerns.

Thank you again for writing. Please don't forget to register to access your account at DIRECTVcom/MyDIRECTV. Managing your account online is the fast and easy way to pay your bill, order pay per view, change your programming and much more!

Sincerely,

XXXXXXXX
DIRECTV Customer Service

[tfederov]

Push it. Ask them when.

[Gotchaa]

The CS is probably confused about which box you have, that sounds like non-HD boxes get upgraded through June

[nabsltd]

That's a fine idea. The only trouble is, I also like to use the sports/whatever filter as well. Unfortunately, you can't select two filters.Cheat.

Use a keyword wishlist and add "baseball" or "sports" or whatever to the other keywords. It will pick up the category just fine. Then, use "Audio & Video/HDTV" as the category.

[holcomb76]

i called direct tv and asked about the new mpeg receivers, they informed me that the new ones will be supported as well as all the old tivo units. i have been told that all receivers will need to changed out. any thoughts?

[kroddy]

I

The picture continues to look like &*@#^, especially channels like TNT and Fox Sports (especially world and soccer). I'm assuming I should be able to distinguish the players uniform numbers or even faces?????



Fox Sports World, and latterly the Soccer channel are horribly overcompressed and have never looked good... (in fact all the SD channels are over-compressed, but with it's constant back and forth camera motion and fine detail movement soccer is one of the things that suffers most from excessive MPEG compression). Ironically the bigger and better your TV, the more you can see the ill-effects of this overcompression. No software upgrade to the TiVo and nothing you can do to your TV will ever make this any better.

D* have no interest in picture quality. They are simply playing a numbers game with the cable companies saying they are offering "hundreds of channels in digital quality". They are catering to the millions watching on their $199 Walmart 27" sets, not our little niche market of people who are really interested in quality.

[Savageone79]

The new HD DVR boxes will be a ways away still (Probably a year or more) so I would bet we see the 6.2 upgrade for the HD tivo sometime in the not to distant future.

[videojanitor]

I will add to the pile and say that yes, I would definitely welcome 6.2 on my HD TiVo, especially if it speeds up the creation/editing of Season Passes. Holy cow ... sometimes I just want to make a minor adjustment, like changing the recording time from "Stop Recording 2 minutes later" to "On Time" -- and in just doing that, I have to stare at the "Please Stand By" graphic for up to five minutes! I only have about 15 SPs, so I'm not sure why it should take soooooo long.

[richierich]

I would love to get the 6.2 Release provided that it works better than the POS "f" version that just came out awhile back. I had to run SpinRite again to clear up the pixellation/freezing/stuttering problems and now it runs fine but it's a pain in the ass to have to disconnect everything from the Tivo, take out the hard drives, put them in my PC and then boot up and run in Level 4 for 5 days. I would get rid of that POS WD hard drive if I didn't have alot of recordings that I didn't want to get rid of or offload to DVDs.

I would like to have folders and I understand that this version restructures the data base but I don't know how they can do that in a download and not lose current recordings which would be structured differently. I also would like to have CallerID.

[georgemoe]

I only have about 15 SPs, so I'm not sure why it should take soooooo long.

Same here VJ. We left a few season passes on the S1 TiVo and have about the same SP's as you on the HR. Skin will form on pudding before you get control back from any adjustments. ;)

[Morg111]

""""""""""""The picture continues to look like &*@#^, especially channels like TNT and Fox Sports (especially world and soccer). I'm assuming I should be able to distinguish the players uniform numbers or even faces?????"""""""""""""""""


I couldn't agree more!!! I have a Fujitsu P50 with a HD Leeza scaler in the middle. The Directv SD looks horrible. TNT / Spike are unwatchable. Massive mpeg artifacts noise, and jaggies everywhere. All testing has been performed.....its the Sat signal. :mad:

M.

[DVRaholic]

Man oh Man... Its getting WORSE.

I just set up a season pass for "Hell's Kitchen" on my HR10-250
and it took nearly 6 minutes to complete!!!!!!!!!!!!

I Might start using my SD-DVR80 fulltime (it has 6.2) until they
Swap out or send the 6.2 update to the HR10-250

CrazyFred, Dan Collins ......
Any Insider Info about 6.2 and the HR10-250 ???? PLEEEASEEEE!!!
HELP :)

[thumperxr69]

Man oh Man... Its getting WORSE.

I just set up a season pass for "Hell's Kitchen" on my HR10-250
and it took nearly 6 minutes to complete!!!!!!!!!!!!

I Might start using my SD-DVR80 fulltime (it has 6.2) until they
Swap out or send the 6.2 update to the HR10-250

CrazyFred, Dan Collins ......
Any Insider Info about 6.2 and the HR10-250 ???? PLEEEASEEEE!!!
HELP :)

I hope you like Hell's Kitchen better than I. I have watched 30 minutes of the first episode and deleted the SP. He is too much of a tyrant.

T

[richierich]

Try deleting the Season Pass, unplug your unit, wait 1 minute, plug it back in and wait until it has acquired Guide data, then try entering it again and time it both times to see if there is a difference. How many Season Passes, Wishlists, and recordings do you have? The more SPs etc. the more info it has to process, this puppy needs a faster processor and a restructuring of the database which the next release will address as far as the database is concerned.

[smatthew]

Unless 6.2 has some major incompatability with the hr10-250 I would wager that we will get it after it has been rolled out to the SD DTiVos. They all run basically the same software - so technically we have a better chance of getting the bugs worked out by letting them experiment on the regular DTiVos.

Especially since the swap out for mpeg4 equipment will take quite some time. I'm in DC and will supposedly get swapped out quickly, but there are some markets that won't be getting mpeg4 hd channels for quite some time. I would wager to say that there will be hr10-250 boxes out there for quite some time and since there is not much additional effort to get 6.2 to the hr10-250's, I think it will happen.


Then again I don't work for D*. They can do whatever they want. All we can do is speculate until it actually happens.

[tivoboy]

has anyone heard if there was ever a beta of 6.2 for HDTIVO's? to date, I have not.

[STL]

At least a couple people have seen a HR10-250 running what appeared to be 6.2 software -- because it had folders -- at the DirecTV booth at a trade show (cannot remember exactly which one). Somebody posted some screen shots of it too.

[tivoboy]

so, putting it on there, is possible of course, checkout the hacking and upgrade thread on the topic. But, as far as a roll out, hadn't heard.

[Morg111]

At least a couple people have seen a HR10-250 running what appeared to be 6.2 software -- because it had folders -- at the DirecTV booth at a trade show (cannot remember exactly which one). Somebody posted some screen shots of it too.

Oh folders!!! How amazing that would be. I have an ongoing pile of BSG episodes from Universal HD that really have made the "Now Showing" list a pain in the ass.

[PJO1966]

Oh folders!!! How amazing that would be. I have an ongoing pile of BSG episodes from Universal HD that really have made the "Now Showing" list a pain in the ass.


I think I have about 10 Second City TV episodes that could be very neatly stowed away in a folder.

[richierich]

I don't want the 6.2 upgrade because alot of people are having video problems with their TVs now not displaying colors accurately with horizontal banding, etc. I wish they would adequately stress test these upgrades before launching them.

[Rich Peterson]

The HR10-250 version of the software also adds support for native passthrough of HD signals so there are at least some additional features that need to be tested on that platform.

I did see the prototype software running on an HR10-250 at CES. It did include folders. It was a demo so I suppose some of it could have been faked...

[K-bueno]

I also saw the "demo" at CES, ...wasn't faked, I was told software was in testing and should receive it soon. I guess soon means over 6 mos!!!

[Rich Peterson]

Yeah, I was told they would start rolling it out "in about a month" so that is what I reported in AVS. Guess that was a wee bit optimistic. Nevertheless, I am quite confident they will actually release it.

Dan collins has said in his forum wouldn't be surprised if they dont send the update for the HR10-250 since they will be swapping out soon.
This was a guess on his part, nothing more.

[D_Doherty]

Any speculation if MRV is built in to the HD code or is it an entirely different branch?

[ronniestern]

will this update ollow me to control my hi def tivo over the internet.

[DVRaholic]

will this update ollow me to control my hi def tivo over the internet.
It wont, it will be nearly the same update as the Series2 SD receivers are getting now. It has been mentioned that it will include Native passthrough but that is not a definite. My only concern is that with the announcement with the Mpeg-4 conversion I hope D* hasn't scrapped the idea of sending the 6.2 update to the HR10-250.

They might want to keep the HR10-250 slow, so when the New HD-DVR comes out at the end of the year they will make all the improvements to thier own version in hope that many of us early adopters will not wait for the swap and just buy the new HD-DVR when they first come out.

I hope this does Not come true ...
We Deserve the 6.2 Update for our OVERPRICED, Pathetically SLOW HD-DVR's !!!!:mad:

[looknow12]

Ohh, how I miss my Ultimate TV.


Fast
Folders
Reliable
Easier to Use


And yet over 4 years old. My parents still have their Ultimate TV and love it. They can't stand the HD Tivo they connected to an HD tv.

I'm hearing this more and more, and DTV verbally said the same thing to me. So let me confirm among all you experts. Is DTV going to swap out our HD Tivo's for a new HD DVR when MPEG-4 becomes prevalent?

[Toeside]

Ohh, how I miss my Ultimate TV.


Fast
Folders
Reliable
Easier to Use


And yet over 4 years old. My parents still have their Ultimate TV and love it. They can't stand the HD Tivo they connected to an HD tv.

I'm hearing this more and more, and DTV verbally said the same thing to me. So let me confirm among all you experts. Is DTV going to swap out our HD Tivo's for a new HD DVR when MPEG-4 becomes prevalent?


I don't see HD recording in that list.... nor HD viewing. Hmmmm.


;)

[looknow12]

I don't see HD recording in that list.... nor HD viewing. Hmmmm.


;)

Right. If you did, we wouldn't be having this conversation :p

We all can agree on one thing: There is no other HD DVR device on the market for DTV.

[Scopeman]

The lack of any comment of consequence on 6.x for HD box says one of two things is happening, either:

1. Nothing at all is happening, thus nothing to say, or;

2. There is a beta of 6.x for the HD box underway now, and anybody who knows anything is under NDA.

I wish a little bird would whisper a number in my ear. . .

or

3. After the spectacular success of the HMO petition <"come on guys, they'll just have to listen to us, they'll just have to!"> we've all come to realize that D* doesn't read these boards (or does but doesn't care), and that kicking off another thread about how it would be nice if our HR10-250 had all the features of the HDVR2 (which itself has a fraction of the possible features of a SA Tivo) is a waste of electrons.

I think a better optiono would be to go to the SA Tivo boards and start a petition over there to make Tivo add dual D* HD tuners to the SA Tivo box. ;)

[Scopeman]

Right. If you did, we wouldn't be having this conversation :p

We all can agree on one thing: There is no other HD DVR device on the market for DTV.

Maybe can all agree on two things:

1. There is no other HD DVR device on the market for DTV
2. DTV treats us accordingly

[Scopeman]

I don't see HD recording in that list.... nor HD viewing. Hmmmm.


;)

UTV was the best DVR box at the time, just got left by the curb like betamax. Tivo is barely catching up to UTV in some ways after 4 years.

In four more years will we be looking back on these HR10-250s and saying "After four years no one has come close to the quality and features of the good old HDTivo"?

God, I hope not. I'd like to think this something better will follow this buggy v0.1b $1K P.O.S. (IMHO, YMMV)

[TallGuy]

Man oh Man... Its getting WORSE.

I just set up a season pass for "Hell's Kitchen" on my HR10-250
and it took nearly 6 minutes to complete!!!!!!!!!!!!

I Might start using my SD-DVR80 fulltime (it has 6.2) until they
Swap out or send the 6.2 update to the HR10-250

CrazyFred, Dan Collins ......
Any Insider Info about 6.2 and the HR10-250 ???? PLEEEASEEEE!!!
HELP :)
Just reading this thread for the first time - some of you know, some don't, that the TiVo computes faster if you set one or both tuners to a nonexistent channel like channel 1. Seems to work even if the currently displayed tuner only is set to channel 1 (like while you're recording 1 show on the other tuner). Recording a new show, deleting a show, navigating the guide or jerking around with SPs is almost tolerable this way.

[HDinLA]

Does anyone know if my old-timer Sony SAT T-60 will get the 6.2 upgrade? Can it handle it?

[cobra55]

I don't expect much in the way of an upgrade. I have a 50 " plasma and have never had good sd picture quality. Even the hd looks a bit 'grainy' at times (especially dark areas). Add to that the horrendous lag time. Especially with a plasma where I have to worry about burn in, the damn menus that NEVER seem to go away....

I have several ds tivos that now rock, blazing with their new upgrade. It's sad. I don't know if the hd tivo has grown slower, but I know the disparity between the two has grown considerably.

DirecTV has never taken responsibility for the issues I'm having. I'd love to switch theunit out but also have quite a bit of recorded programming there that never seems to get cleared out. I know, bit the bullet and take the hit. But from what I've read, even a switch would do little good.

In the end it seems we've been lured into buying the dh tivo before it was ready. Not only that, it seems that it was rushed to production to meet demand. End result, crappy box, crappy service....

I don;t expect an upgrade, at least not one that does any good. I believe most of the issues we're having are hardware related, ie, lack of proper memory, hard drive, hdmi interface.....

I'll leave it at that


i agree with every word you said, as for my thoghts, the worse thing i did was leave dish, but I WILL BE GOING BACK

[spectecjr]

People are ignorant about many things. Don't make the mistake of thinking that I am calling you stupid, I am not. At the risk of further straining relations let me ask you a few things.

Who? You say technicians came to your house. Who's technicians? DirecTV does not have any technicians. They have contractors who they hire to install dishes and run cable but I have not heard of them sending people to your house to check equipment. These people they contract with are cable runners/install techs and you are hitting them with a Computer Engineering question. Of course they can't help you.

Did you call DirecTV and tell them there is a problem? Did you ask them to switch out the box? (They have a very good track record on switching out boxes so I can't imagine they would refuse). You talk of staying on the phone for hours, and at times it can be trying, but I don't think that is very accurate. Sure, switching out a $1000 box takes a little bit of time to ensure that they, and you, get what is expected out of the deal. They want to be sure there isn't a easy fix they can't handle over the phone.

DirecTV has been very good about switching bad units out. Some mistakes and some hassle but nothing to wide spread or over the top. I do think it's kinda funny that you are willing to live with something that seems to not work at all instead of risking getting a working refurb unit. I don't understand it in the least but it's funny.

The overall point was that you obviously have not taken the proper steps to get your issue resolved. There are literally hundreds of people on this board who faced similar problems that you are facing and have had DirecTV take care of them. DTV isn't perfect by any means but by complaining about things they have a really good track record of fixing it takes away from the discussion of real issues that could benefit the whole 10-250 community. I'm sorry if you took offense at my use of the word ignorant, that was not my intention.


Give him a break. He's talking about an issue with some SD programming (and some HD programming, but it's more prevalent on SD) where colors are much brighter than they should be. There's something wrong with the HDMI source - not sure about component; I've not tried it - where the black level is too high on the output signal, making the entire picture much brighter than it should be.

As MPEG encoding is pretty poor in low-luminance areas, this enhances the problem with some colors, making banding and pixelisation pretty visible in those areas.

It's either a signal creation problem on the output stage, or a decoder problem. My bet would be on the decoder - I've seen similar issues on computers decoding MPEG; if you don't tweak the output just right, you get a color crunch.

Si

[bigcb37]

What is the most current software that should be running on the HD Tivo? I dont keep my Tivo plugged into a phoneline so I may have missed something.

I am currently on 3.1.5d

[georgemoe]

What is the most current software that should be running on the HD Tivo? I dont keep my Tivo plugged into a phoneline so I may have missed something.

I am currently on 3.1.5d

3.1.5f

[bigcb37]

3.1.5f


Oh man I am way behind...wonder if I am missing out on anything good? has their been any noticible upgrades in e or f versions of the software?

[looknow12]

Oh man I am way behind...wonder if I am missing out on anything good? has their been any noticible upgrades in e or f versions of the software?

Nothing I've noticed. These are just maintenance revisions.

[AkaStp]

Several of us are trying to determine if the latest "f" version is responsible for video hiccups/stutters (1-3 second freezes).

[looknow12]

Several of us are trying to determine if the latest "f" version is responsible for video hiccups/stutters (1-3 second freezes).

Add me to the list because I notice that too.

[Cheep]

I would say "no" to that question... I had "d" for the first 3 months I owned the HDTivo, and got the hiccups regularly. Upgraded to "f", and same thing. No difference.

[AkaStp]

I've been using 3.1.5e for a few days now (I took previous unit back to BB as it was hiccuping with 3.1.5f) with no video hiccups during live TV or playing back previously recorded programs. The only video hiccups I'm currently getting are those that occur when changing channels (by several different means).

[jcricket]

I've been using 3.1.5e for a few days now (I took previous unit back to BB as it was hiccuping with 3.1.5f) with no hiccups during live TV or playing back previously recorded programs. The only hiccups I'm currently getting are those that occur when changing channels (by several different means).

Ditto for me. I fairly regularly get the minor audio hiccup when changing channels. Not the end of the world, but a little annoying. I'm connected via the HDMI->DVI cable and RCA audio cables.

[Gotchaa]

All I know is that I saw and played with the 6.2 software at CES, and it did seem faster, but there wasn't much on it. I then visited Tivo spoke to a rep who indicated D* controls the release dates and the software was ready to go. So basically they are doing what or need to do before they get it out to HDTiVo users. I was expecting it 4 months ago!

[DVRaholic]

All I know is that I saw and played with the 6.2 software at CES, and it did seem faster, but there wasn't much on it. I then visited Tivo spoke to a rep who indicated D* controls the release dates and the software was ready to go. So basically they are doing what or need to do before they get it out to HDTiVo users. I was expecting it 4 months ago!
I am Hoping for an Early July release for Our HD-Tivo's.
I would think by then they all the SD-Tivo's should be finished

I just wish Dan Collins or CrazyFred could check around to get us some info.
They both seem to have very reliable sources. :up:

[kjones77]

Take it for what it's worth, but I called and emailed D* and both gave the response that the HR10-250 will indeed get 6.2 but a timtable had yet been established.

[PTinTexas]

Right. If you did, we wouldn't be having this conversation :p

We all can agree on one thing: There is no other HD DVR device on the market for DTV.

Windows Multimedia PC is looking better all the time...

[lord-dogbert]

I spoke to d* CRG earlier today about this. I posted a major gripe that my two "free" SD Tivo's have 6. but my $700 tivo HD doesn't. They transferred me to the Tivo specialty department who advised that they are currently Alpha testing 6.2 on the hr10's and will release 6.2 publicly once they are sure that all is well. I requested to be added to a beta list for testing 6.2 on my HR10 as well as testing "legit" HMO and MRV which D* advised is also in alpha test. I was told that I would get a call in a few weeks(yeah right) to go over the beta test rules. I'll advise more once I find more out in a few weeks.

[tivoboy]

Uh,
me thinks
they were bored!

[Morg111]

"Few weeks"

me thinks, you have a better chance of seeing God....

[richierich]

"Few weeks"

me thinks, you have a better chance of seeing God....

That's funny that you mentioned seeing God because I saw him the other day and I asked him if he knew when the 6.2 software would be released and he said that he did. I asked him when and he muttered under his breath "When Hell Freezes Over!!!!". So if we can only figure out when Hell Will Freeze Over we will have the date.

[tivoboy]

That's funny that you mentioned seeing God because I saw him the other day and I asked him if he knew when the 6.2 software would be released and he said that he did. I asked him when and he muttered under his breath "When Hell Freezes Over!!!!". So if we can only figure out when Hell Will Freeze Over we will have the date.

yeah, well I ran into the Devil in Starbucks buying a cocoa, EXTRA HOT! Anyway, he said,

"6.2, HAH, you suckers. I am already beta testing the 1.0 version of the new D* HD PVR running Microsoft XP and built by Motorola. I am trying to get more of them because it is JUST the type of product we like for my people down here!"

:-) How do you THINK BG got all his money?

[Waldorf]

That's funny that you mentioned seeing God because I saw him the other day and I asked him if he knew when the 6.2 software would be released and he said that he did. I asked him when and he muttered under his breath "When Hell Freezes Over!!!!". So if we can only figure out when Hell Will Freeze Over we will have the date.

"You will receive the 6.2 update when you least expect it...." :rolleyes:

[luebster]

"You will receive the 6.2 update when you least expect it...." :rolleyes:
So I'll get it the day after D* sends me a new HMC in the presumed swap out? ;)

[DVRaholic]

* BUMP *

I'd expect that D* should be just about finished with The 6.2 update for the SD-Tivo.
so.....
When We will get 6.2 for the HR10-250 ?!?!?!?!

Inquiring (and frustrated!) minds want to know....

[richierich]

Yes, but not in your lifetime.

[jasch]

I just wish Dan Collins could check around to get us some info.

Why don't you go to his board/site instead and ask there?

[DVRaholic]

Why don't you go to his board/site instead and ask there?
Been there..
Done that...

For some Odd reason Dan has not talked openly on either forum the last few months regarding the Hr10-250 and the 6.2 update.

Maybe he doesn't want to tell us what we dont want to hear. :down:

Maybe if more members would ask him to check around and get us some info,
he might be willing to look into it. I seem to be the Only One asking him for some information.

So lets hear from you members that really want to get 6.2 on our "Painfully SLOW" HR10-250s.

Maybe then Dan can help us out. :)

[Charles R]

Since DirecTV is phasing out the HD TiVo why would they bother to upgrade the software. I understand it might be a while before everyone is switched over (a year perhaps?) but I think they will be rather busy with the conversion to MPEG4.

[thumperxr69]

I am afraid Carles is probably right here: Why spend extra money and resources when they could be using these on D* own upcoming boxes.

:down:

T

[STL]

Since DirecTV is phasing out the HD TiVo why would they bother to upgrade the software.DirecTV updated Micro$oft's failed UltimateTV with software AFTER they were phased out so why should this be any different? Especially since this 6.2 software is "done" and has already been seen running on a HD TiVo -- so I fully expect to get an update.

I understand it might be a while before everyone is switched over (a year perhaps?) but I think they will be rather busy with the conversion to MPEG4.Try 2 or more years. Heck, we haven't even seen a working demo unit (at any trade shows) yet! :rolleyes:

[DVRaholic]

Since DirecTV is phasing out the HD TiVo why would they bother to upgrade the software. I understand it might be a while before everyone is switched over (a year perhaps?) but I think they will be rather busy with the conversion to MPEG4.
A few months ago it was rumored that the 6.2 update for the HR10-250 was in testing and it would be released as soon as the SD-Tivos were finished upgrading.
They showed a working demo at CES on a HR10-250 and Dan collins confirmed this on these forums.

It will take at least 2 years to complete the swapout to mpeg-4. I know myself I will not swap my 2 HR10-250's until I have no choice. I paid nearly $1,000 for my first HR10-250. Its not right that the SD-Tivo's that cost $49 are getting a Upgrade to a much faster OS and us "early adopters" might not benefit from this upgrade that D* is supposedly Sitting on. Its just NOT Right!!!

I want my 6.2 and I want it NOW!! :cool:

please... :)

[STL]

I want my 6.2 and I want it NOW!! :cool: I totally agree dude!!!

[richierich]

Same here VJ. We left a few season passes on the S1 TiVo and have about the same SP's as you on the HR. Skin will form on pudding before you get control back from any adjustments. ;)

Do you eat the SKIN on the PUDDING?

[richierich]

I paid alot of money for both of my HR10-250s and I pay alot for connecting 2 other SD Tivos and a Samsung SIR-TS160 to D*. I want my 6.2 Update NOW!!!!!!! I think we are just as important as the SD Tivo customers and they should have had it tested by now or at least let us know what their timetable is. Why are they so uncommunicative and quiet about everything, this isn't Top Secret Data or National Security. I WANT MY 6.2 NOW!!!!

[Syzygy]

Scopeman said:
I think a better option would be to go to the SA Tivo boards and start a petition over there to make Tivo add dual D* HD tuners to the SA Tivo box. ;)Yeah, right. Of course, that'll never happen. Maybe we should be looking forward to HD-cable-enabled dual-tuner TiVos instead. Much more likely.

And, I want my 6.2 upgrade yesterday!

[looknow12]

DirecTV updated Micro$oft's failed UltimateTV with software AFTER they were phased out so why should this be any different? Especially since this 6.2 software is "done" and has already been seen running on a HD TiVo -- so I fully expect to get an update.

Try 2 or more years. Heck, we haven't even seen a working demo unit (at any trade shows) yet! :rolleyes:

The 6.2 update has mostly probaby been written and is in an internal best test.

As far as "Micro$oft's Failed UltimateTV" the reason updates were made available is because a company like that has a professional background in releasing timely software updates. That's their business.

As far as "Failed", it didn't fail because it wasn't any good. Microsoft wasn't making enough money in their agreement with DTV and wanted to focus more on Windows Media Center. It was not a question of capability.

In fact, if Microsoft UTV was available still today, we all would have jumped ship by now, hands down. Faster, Folders, and a handful of other features not found today in Tivo.

[richierich]

They stated 2 months ago that they were testing the 6.2 software for the HR10-250. How long does it take to do this? They should have had it fully tested by now and in the "beta" test stage which it isn't, so I don't think that it looks as if they are going to release it and probably will not release because IMHO they want the HR10-250 to look bad so everyone will want their new D* DVR and will desperately want to swap their HR10-250 for the new DVR. I don't think they want this Tivo to look and function in a good manner because as they distance themselves from Tivo and are developing their own DVR, it is just good business sense to have the HR10-250 function poorly so people will want the new DVR with a new 2 year commitment, paying dearly for the HD Locals, that is in THEIR BEST INTERESTS and as a business I think they will just let Tivo dangle in the air hopefully dying a certain death. I heard that Tivo is going to do a unit for cable. Who knows what EVIL lurks in GOTHAM CITY? All I know is that I have seen alot of corporate stabbing even by companies owned by the same parent company, all in the self serving interests of making themselves look good while making another company look bad.

[shaown]

Give us our 6.2 NOW! For the SD Tivos, I believe the test was run by Tivo (for DTV) directly. If a beta was underway, while no one would violate NDA by saying what they were testing, I am sure we would heard a rumor of new release coming, or some sort of hint. Bodes badly for us...
-Shaown

[Lee L]

Crap, the unit at CES had the new version in what, January? The software better be darn well flawless after all this "testing".

[tivoboy]

I heard that 6.2 for D* receivers took more than six months?
anyone?

[STL]

They stated 2 months ago that they were testing the 6.2 software for the HR10-250. How long does it take to do this? They should have had it fully tested by now and in the "beta" test stage which it isn't, so I don't think that it looks as if they are going to release it and probably will not release because IMHO they want the HR10-250 to look bad so everyone will want their new D* DVR and will desperately want to swap their HR10-250 for the new DVR. Then why did the update all the SD TiVos with 6.2?

[richierich]

Because they had already done the testing for the SD Tivos. They don't want to put anymore money or other resources into the testing phase for the HD Tivo because they are going to replace it shortly anyway and that does not affect the SD Tivos so they went ahead and upgraded those units. Also, they were not having significant problems with the SD Tivos that they are having with the HD Tivo and they probably don't want to incur any more problems with the HD Tivo and further alienate HD D* customers so just delay it without incurring any further expense until they have the new HD DVR and can swap us out with that unit and get a 2 year commitment and additional revenue from us by charging an arm and a leg for the HD Locals which I don't need.

[MichaelK]

Then why did the update all the SD TiVos with 6.2?

Not sure I agree with richierich that they are doing it maliciously (it is a real possibility though)

But there is a big difference SD vs HD- there will be no forced swap of the SD units. But they need to get everyone off MPEG2 HD at some point so eventually they need everyone with an HD Tivo to get rid of it.

[richierich]

If they weren't intentionally holding off until the new HD DVR comes out then why don't we have it. The code can't be that drstically different. I was a computer programmer for 30 years and I can tell you I have tested bank software where we had to due extensive integrated system testing anytime we went with a substantial upgrade and it didn't take this long. Why don't they give us a tentative date?

[kkluba]

A CSR told me 3.1.5f is it for the HDTivo just a few days ago. Of course CSR's are often wrong but this is what he said.

[STL]

A CSR told me 3.1.5f is it for the HDTivo just a few days ago. Of course CSR's are often wrong but this is what he said.Yup, because a couple people have reported that D* CSRs told them 6.2 is coming for HD TiVos. I suspect they just passing along rumors they've heard at the "watercooler" -- heck some of those rumors might have even originated here! ;)

[PJO1966]

Then why did the update all the SD TiVos with 6.2?


They still haven't updated all the SD boxes. My Hughes GXCEBOT has not been updated.

[STL]

I didn't mean all is the context meaning every single SD DirecTiVo. You are aware that your type of DirecTiVo isn't slated for the upgrade, right?

[PJO1966]

I didn't mean all is the context meaning every single SD DirecTiVo. You are aware that your type of DirecTiVo isn't slated for the upgrade, right?

yup. still wondering why not.

[STL]

Because they had already done the testing for the SD Tivos. They don't want to put anymore money or other resources into the testing phase for the HD Tivo because they are going to replace it shortly anyway and that does not affect the SD Tivos so they went ahead and upgraded those units. Also, they were not having significant problems with the SD Tivos that they are having with the HD Tivo and they probably don't want to incur any more problems with the HD Tivo and further alienate HD D* customers so just delay it without incurring any further expense until they have the new HD DVR and can swap us out with that unit and get a 2 year commitment and additional revenue from us by charging an arm and a leg for the HD Locals which I don't need.I don't agree with your thinking, but I will say if DirecTV thinks they can pass on upgrading my HR10-250 to 6.2 without pissing me off (and very possibily loosing me as a customer) then they've got another thing coming! :mad: I don't intend up swap my HR10-250 anytime soon. Furthermore, after spending $800 on this box I feel I FULLY deserve this software upgrade. I get my HD locals just fine with an antenna and right now DirecTV doesn't offer an HD package worth paying for so I have NO urge to switch to any new box -- especially if that means I have to make a two year commitment. DirecTV better get the 6.2 upgrade out by Fall or they're going to piss off a lot of early-adopter customers!

Since we all know DirecTV had 6.2 running on a HD TiVo is January, they better stop dragging their feet and get our software push started!!!!!!!!!

[richierich]

I have alot of money to bet if you care to wager that you will get it before the HD DVR comes out and some more to wage about whether you will ever see it, I know how these corporations work and Tivo spurned Rupert and he doesn't like being rejected, he is not used to it. If he can make Tivo look bad and then produce a "better" replacement box without having to pay Tivo for their patents, then he wins the game and if you know anything about this billionaires, it is this. They do not like to lose the game. They have all the money that they need. It is power that they crave. If you spurn me, I will show you. I will put a hurting on you, lower your stock price and then buy you out for PEANUTS, pennies instead of dollars. Why do you think they are being so QUIET about this release? Because it is so hard to test something that has already been tested for SD Tivos. Yes, there are differences but it shouldn't take 6 months to finish testing. Why can't they roll it out before they have complete the SD rollout because they should not have anything to do with each other. It seems obvious to me, not YOU? Unless they have discovered some major flaws with the OS and the limited CPU power, this PUPPY is MAXED OUT!!!! Also, with a very BAD WD POS hard drive that I am now sending off to Weaknees to spend $650 to backup my recordings and replace the original drive with a 400 gig Segate drive and an additional fan.

[STL]

If Rupert was really wanting to try and make TiVo look bad he would have never allowed the 6.2 release for the SD DirecTiVos. I would say most HD DirecTiVo owners know that 6.2 exists for the SD DirecTiVos and they're getting more pissed by the day that their $1000 HD TiVos haven't been updated yet!! So if Rupert is playing games, all he is really doing is pissing off his customers!!!

BTW, with the way the 6.2 software reconfigs the database it should do more to help the "limited CPU power" problem than exacerbate it.

[richierich]

There have already been problems with this release. Alot of people are now experiencing pixellation/freeze ups/etc. To restructure any database without doing a backup and then downloading the data to a conversion program, you would have to do a Clear and Delete which erases everything that you have recorded. That is not good for me, how about you.
I was a computer programmer/consultant and anytime we restructered a database to allow for indexing or sequential processing, you had to offload the file and then change the database structure and then reload it as a different type of database such as indexed versus sequential. This database has been sequential and they are probably looking at a low level indexed database which is mostly sequential but with some indexes. The major problem is that almost everyone I have talked to who knows about computers agrees that this CPU is maxed out with a bad batch of Western Digital drives. I just ran SpinRite and it discovered 3 more bad sectors. I had 2 on a previous run. The secondary Maxtor drive had no problems nor has my other HR10-250 which has 2 300 gig Maxtor drives installed from the gitgo by Weaknees. Any questions?

[STL]

There have already been problems with this release. Alot of people are now experiencing pixellation/freeze ups/etc. To restructure any database without doing a backup and then downloading the data to a conversion program, you would have to do a Clear and Delete which erases everything that you have recorded. That is not good for me, how about you.
I was a computer programmer/consultant and anytime we restructered a database to allow for indexing or sequential processing, you had to offload the file and then change the database structure and then reload it as a different type of database such as indexed versus sequential. This database has been sequential and they are probably looking at a low level indexed database which is mostly sequential but with some indexes. I'm willing to free up some space and take the chance I may loose some shows (or that they might be pixelated some during playback) to get the 6.2 upgrade, BUT they need to get it done before the new network television season starts this fall! All the more reason D* needs to get the push started SOON!!!

[richierich]

You need to do a search here in this forum for the other units that have received this upgrade and the problems that they have had. If you look at that track record, then maybe you know why they are delaying it for the HR10-250. Something is going on and you can bet that the higher ups in senior management know exactly what their game plan is. They definitely know about all of the problems with this unit, they know about the testing phase and whether or not they will ever release it. If they think that it will make them look good with their new DVR, then they will just let the users of HR10-250 and Tivo dangle in the wind while they hook you up with their new DVR without having to pay Tivo any fees and being able to control their own platform and destiny. This is how business works. They are looking at the long range not the short term approach to appeasing a few HD Tivo owners. We are in the vast minority so they are not worried. Why do you think there is so much silence on when they will release the 6.2 for the HR10-250? Wouldn't it be better to say it will be released August 1 or September 1? Yes, unless they don't want to release it because they want the unit to look bad so their replacement will be graciously received and welcomed. It is so obvious.

[lowboy]

They still haven't updated all the SD boxes. My Hughes GXCEBOT has not been updated.

I don't think you ever will. That is a series 1 box isn't it?

[PJO1966]

I don't think you ever will. That is a series 1 box isn't it?

I believe so.

[GhostWolf]

I don't know if any of you bother to examine the 6.2 software, bit it looks like most of the hardware support for the hdtivo is already included in that particular version.

Also, with a very BAD WD POS hard drive that I am now sending off to Weaknees to spend $650 to backup my recordings and replace the original drive with a 400 gig Segate drive and an additional fan.

Wow, why would you do that? It's easy enough to do yourself for free. Weaknees just uses software thats already freely available on deal database to do it.

To restructure any database without doing a backup and then downloading the data to a conversion program, you would have to do a Clear and Delete which erases everything that you have recorded.

It isn't necessary, believe me on that as I have done far more hazardous things without a problem.

[Dirac]

Perhaps DirecTV could do another limited rollout of 6.2 in a particular DMA... I leave it to you all to determine which DMA I'd like to see (again). :D That on top of the fact that the HR10-250 user pool is relatively quite small anyway, you'd think the trouble report load on the CSR system would be pretty low.

Also, those of us who are really impatient could upgrade via slices (again) at our own risk.

[MichaelK]

If they weren't intentionally holding off until the new HD DVR comes out then why don't we have it. The code can't be that drstically different. I was a computer programmer for 30 years and I can tell you I have tested bank software where we had to due extensive integrated system testing anytime we went with a substantial upgrade and it didn't take this long. Why don't they give us a tentative date?

Possible one word answer

Incompetence.

[GhostWolf]

Possible one word answer

Incompetence.

You can lay that on tivo; directv has nothing to do with the software development.

[scooby2]

You can lay that on tivo; directv has nothing to do with the software development.Tivo claims DirecTV has the software from them and it is ready to roll. Who to believe.

[MichaelK]

You can lay that on tivo; directv has nothing to do with the software development.


i woudldn't at all.

Directv calls the shots. They tell TiVo to junp and Tivo says how high. IF DirecTV doesnt tell TiVo to write the code, test the code, or deploy the code then they dont.

Tivo had 4.0 ready the same time it rolled to the stand alones yet it took years before Directv got the SD boxes off 3.x.

For all we know 6.x works on the HD boxes but TiVo just hit it better in the SD disto this time around.

[GhostWolf]

i woudldn't at all.

Directv calls the shots. They tell TiVo to junp and Tivo says how high. IF DirecTV doesnt tell TiVo to write the code, test the code, or deploy the code then they dont.

Tivo had 4.0 ready the same time it rolled to the stand alones yet it took years before Directv got the SD boxes off 3.x.

That brings a question to mind...why didn't tivo bring the speed enhancements of the 6.2 software to the 7.1b software?

For all we know 6.x works on the HD boxes but TiVo just hit it better in the SD disto this time around.

I will actually be making an attempt at that in a few weeks. I already know that it wont work right out of the box due to a critical binary missing, but I can obtain that as well as make a few other adjustments for compatibility. I'll post my findings to deal database if I do.

[MichaelK]

That brings a question to mind...why didn't tivo bring the speed enhancements of the 6.2 software to the 7.1b software?

....

probably because due to Directv's stupid decisions 6.x came out AFTER 7.x

(and serious quesiton- do we KNOW that the 7.x database wasnt redone like 6.x's?)

[richierich]

I don't know if any of you bother to examine the 6.2 software, bit it looks like most of the hardware support for the hdtivo is already included in that particular version.



Wow, why would you do that? It's easy enough to do yourself for free. Weaknees just uses software thats already freely available on deal database to do it.



It isn't necessary, believe me on that as I have done far more hazardous things without a problem.

You have to define the database and the indexes before you load data or data can be stored because that tells how and where the data will be stored. If you store in in a dynamic VSAM type database with indexes for dynamic acquisition via keys stored by index, then that has to be defined beforehand. If you change that structure then you have to offload the data, redefine it and

I wish someone could explain to me on a high level basis how to do this because I definitely need to learn how. What are the processes that you have to go thru. How do you back it up? You have to have some type of hard drive to back it up to? How large? How do you re-image the drive with Tivo software? It seems alot more complicated to me but if someone wants to tutor me I would be more than willing to pay them for my services as money is not my biggest problem.

[GhostWolf]

probably because due to Directv's stupid decisions 6.x came out AFTER 7.x

AFAIK the 6.1 software came with the Directv-R10, with all of the speed enhancements intact (the hardware of the r10 is inferior to that of the regular series 2 units.) 7.x didn't come til later.

(and serious quesiton- do we KNOW that the 7.x database wasnt redone like 6.x's?)

It's an issue of software optimizations rather than database changes. As far as I can tell, the change in the structure of the database is pretty minimal, except that of the guide data which is now indexed different, and the strain on the hard disk is heavily reduced.

You have to define the database and the indexes before you load data or data can be stored because that tells how and where the data will be stored. If you store in in a dynamic VSAM type database with indexes for dynamic acquisition via keys stored by index, then that has to be defined beforehand. If you change that structure then you have to offload the data, redefine it and

So?

I wish someone could explain to me on a high level basis how to do this because I definitely need to learn how. What are the processes that you have to go thru. How do you back it up? You have to have some type of hard drive to back it up to? How large? How do you re-image the drive with Tivo software? It seems alot more complicated to me but if someone wants to tutor me I would be more than willing to pay them for my services as money is not my biggest problem.

You have a few routes you can take. In your specific case, what I would do is put your tivo hard drive in a linux PC and backup the DC key located in /State/Media using tridges tools. Then I would do a TMF export of all of your tystreams in their encrypted form. You then obtain an image for an hr10-250 (either buy it from ptvupgrade for $20 or download it on emule) and restore this to a hard drive. Replace your old DC key in /State/Media, hack the tivo to enable you to run arbitrary software, get a usb ethernet cable and set it up, then use mfs_ftp to import the encrypted tystreams. That is pretty much it, you can find these steps in more detail on deal database.

[MichaelK]

AFAIK the 6.1 software came with the Directv-R10, with all of the speed enhancements intact (the hardware of the r10 is inferior to that of the regular series 2 units.) 7.x didn't come til later.
...

i forgot that.

I cant figure out what the stupid relationship between directv and tivo is- all i know is it's not healthy.

[Onazuka]

...here have already been problems with this release. Alot of people are now experiencing pixellation/freeze ups/etc. To restructure any database without doing a backup and then downloading the data to a conversion program, you would have to do a Clear and Delete which erases everything that you have recorded. That is not good for me, how about you.
I was a computer programmer/consultant and anytime we restructered a database to allow for indexing or sequential processing, you had to offload the file and then change the database structure and then reload it as a different type of database such as indexed versus sequential. This database has been sequential and they are probably looking at a low level indexed database which is mostly sequential but with some indexes. The major problem is that almost everyone I have talked to who knows about computers agrees that this CPU is maxed out with a bad batch of Western Digital drives. I just ran SpinRite and it discovered 3 more bad sectors. I had 2 on a previous run. The secondary Maxtor drive had no problems nor has my other HR10-250 which has 2 300 gig Maxtor drives installed from the gitgo by Weaknees. Any questions?


I can understand hardware problems, especially a hard disk slowing the TiVO down, but the software and database is really not a hard engineering task. You may have 100 shows stored at one time and that's a miniscule database. They guide is slow and only 2 weeks of show data is also a very small database. Heck, were not talking about an IRS database or something. The user interface is also not that extensive either. Basically, the only technical challenge for the software is the hardware drivers and keeping data streaming well. The rest of the software, including the database is not very difficult. Once you get the drivers done and your real time architecture, adding other features like folders should be very easy and not require much testing. And there is no excuse for having such a slow guide.

[GhostWolf]

i forgot that.

I cant figure out what the stupid relationship between directv and tivo is- all i know is it's not healthy.

Well, I don't quite know why this forum looks at the tivo developers as if they are gods, but I have seen what they do first hand and granted some of the ideas are good, their delivery is quite poor and there are a lot of things that they do very badly when writing their software. You guys probably don't look under the hood of the tivos, so the only screwups you have seen are along the lines of when they screwed up the static ad logo so that it always appeared, or just recently how they screwed up tivotogo. These things are only the tip of the iceburg.

It looks more to me like directv quality control demanded that the software be fixed so that it is more responsive, because prior to this these units were behaving as if they were way outdated first generation hardware. Tivo went ahead and made these changes, but they didn't feel like bringing it to the standalone units, probably out of sheer laziness.

[richierich]

So when are we going to get it?

[gfoulks]

Time to bring this thread back to life...... Any new news on when we might be getting this update? I just setup my HR10 last night and am already missing the 6.2 upgrade that I have on my DSR 704!

[lord-dogbert]

Just called direct and no one there knows anything about 6.2 now. The rep thinks that the previous reps were blowing sunshine. I complained to the fact that my BMX 7 series has less capability than my chevy, this after she failed to understand the basic concept that the HD tivo COSTS a whole lot more than the SD tivo.

[richierich]

I've told you guys time and time again that you will get 6.2 when HELL FREEZES OVER so keep watching the Weather Channel and when you see that hell has frozen over go to your HR10-250 and pull up the system info and there you will see 6.2. Probably with alot of bugs still in it.

[markb]

What's the zip code for Hell?

[sjberra]

What's the zip code for Hell?

00666

[n8dagr8]

What's the zip code for Hell?

00666


Touche! :D

[photokev]

Now that the price of the HD units has dropped to $500 I would like to dump my SD Tivo and get a second HD Tivo. The only thing that is stopping me is that I do not want to give up the folder sorting feature currently on my SD Tivo. Is there any hack that I can do myself to make it show the folders on my HD unit?

[DVRaholic]

Now that the price of the HD units has dropped to $500 I would like to dump my SD Tivo and get a second HD Tivo. The only thing that is stopping me is that I do not want to give up the folder sorting feature currently on my SD Tivo. Is there any hack that I can do myself to make it show the folders on my HD unit?
$500 ?? Where have you been latley :)
Check out this HOT thread
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=254292

Back on Topic: I now think we will NEVER see the 6.2 Update, :( with more and more people now getting the HR10-250 there is More people D* can possibly piss off if there is a Bug in the 6.2 HD version. On the other hand now since they have become much cheaper they wouldnt be messing around with $1,000 units anymore :) So who knows ??

[Morg111]

If I were a scumbag (aka Directv) I would not release this software as the next generation of their HD DVR with MPEG-4 and a 1000 foot wide dish with 500,000 LNB's (frustrated exaggeration) is due to come out in the next six months. If they upgrade our boxes now, we would be less willing to upgrade to a substandard version of DVR. Besides the addition of MPEG-4 and extra LNB's for more HD content their DVR most likely will be no match for a Tivo especially if it is a 6.2 upgraded tivo.

-M

[gfoulks]

I don't plan to switch out my HR10-250 until I absolutely have to. I could care less about D*'s HD locals over sat. I'll bet they won't even come close to the quality signal I get OTA. I'm sure I'm not the only one that feels this way so it would behoove D* to push the software update out as soon as possible. Why piss off a large segment of your customer base?

[radamo]

Has there been any update from D* on this officially?
RA

[lord-dogbert]

Depending on what Direct wants us to do with our beloved Tivo's after the swap i'm sure that a hack will be out to steam video over the network or load codecs for divx so that our "old" tivo's can become media servers.

I so wish I could program....

[markb]

Maybe it's time for a coordinated letter writing campaign. If the people posting on this forum all wrote in to DirecTV to complain at the same time, it would at least get their attention.

[lord-dogbert]

A concerted effort by folks here and the "other place" would hit Direct hard in the face. I think that it would be too difficult to stage a write in but what about an online petition site to Direct like http://www.thepetitionsite.com/?ltl=1124909852 or http://www.ipetitions.com/index.html. Found these in a google search. Anyone know any other petition sites. Once we reach some goal then one of us would contact Direct management and point them to the petitions. I'll start it if others will act with me. I don't work too far from Direct's office in El Segundo, it would be cool to serve the petitions in person:-) Viva la resistance.

[gfoulks]

get er done!

[DVRaholic]

Once we reach some goal then one of us would contact Direct management and point them to the petitions. I'll start it if others will act with me. I don't work too far from Direct's office in El Segundo, it would be cool to serve the petitions in person:-) Viva la resistance.

Go For IT!! You can Count me in,

I Want my 6.2 and I want it NOW!!!!

[markb]

A concerted effort by folks here and the "other place" would hit Direct hard in the face. I think that it would be too difficult to stage a write in but what about an online petition site to Direct like http://www.thepetitionsite.com/?ltl=1124909852 or http://www.ipetitions.com/index.html.

The thing is, I think 100 letters would be taken more seriously than 1000 signatures on an online petition. But it wouldn't hurt to do both. Get as many people to sign the online petition as possible, and also get people to send letters, timed to coincide with the delivery of the petition. We could even hit them with emails and phone calls at the same time.

Who knows if this would actually get them to release 6.2 any sooner, but at least it would get the message across.

[lord-dogbert]

Alrighty, I'll check out the petition sites and decide on one and post the link. I then need EVERYONE that reads this to spread the word here and everywhere else to go sign the petition and write your letter. We'll figure out how to time the letters and delivery of the petition.

I know that Direct service reps read this and the other forums as well so make note, we are coming and we want our bloody 6.2!

[lord-dogbert]

OK boys and girls,

Cry havoc, and let lose the dogs of war....

Here's the URL for the petition:
http://www.ipetitions.com/campaigns/hr10-250_6.2_update/

Tell all to go and sign it. I'll create another thread on this forum and the other place. Once we get closer then we'll have to figure out how to coordinate calls, emails and letters all for that day.

[markb]

Tell all to go and sign it. I'll create another thread on this forum and the other place. Once we get closer then we'll have to figure out how to coordinate calls, emails and letters all for that day.

Just created a thread here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=256219

I'll add your link.

[lord-dogbert]

Coolness, going over to the other place now.

[PJO1966]

I signed the petition. I also went to planetfeedback.com I had used them in the past to complain to Verizon Wireless. The complaint went to someone in the CEO's office and I got a quick response. Unfortunately the site is down at the moment "while it gears up for an exciting re-launch". I'll keep checking back and will post when it's up again. That would be a good backup method to signing the petition.

[lord-dogbert]

Good, spread the word everywhere. In the past 45 minutes 18 people have signed. Not too bad of a start.

[lord-dogbert]

Just sent an email to an editor at CNet, they've covered Tivo issues before, maybe they'll bite on this story.

[pkscout]

Hmmm. I seem to recall signing an online petition for DirecTV to add HMO to the DirecTiVo. Still waiting to see how that one turns out...

[lord-dogbert]

I think that this issue will be quicker and easier to resolve than HMO. HMO has legal implications for Direct when dealing with media rights and the fact that the programming is stored digitally and we all know how hollywood hates digital.

[Cwaters]

grain of salt warning:
After two emails I got the "there is an upgrade coming but there's no time-frame yet" again today.
That is all, go on about you day now.
CW

[lord-dogbert]

165 so far. Keep telling people.
I was thinking about letting this run for a few weeks and then after it goes idle for some time then closing down, printing it out and driving to El Segundo. Anyone want to come along :-)

[looknow12]

Bump: Everyone should be aware of this thread. Your TIVO sucks without the 6.2 update.

Improved performance with Guides and selection of record ...Please Wait icon

Grouping: Keeps season passes together so it's easy to browse them.

[BillyT2002]

lord-dogbert - I'll go along for the ride. Pick me up in Waterville, Maine. ;)

[lord-dogbert]

lord-dogbert - I'll go along for the ride. Pick me up in Waterville, Maine. ;)


Alrighty, will noon do :)

[lord-dogbert]

We're at 208 signatures, not bad for a 4 day old petition. This coming week I plan on finding someone besides the receptionist to meet with at corporate. I think perhaps Public Relations might be a good place to start, maybe Tanya Memme will be there(the screamer channel girl).

Has anyone had contacts at El Segundo before, maybe from the HMO petition. How many sigs did the HMO petition get?

How do we get this thread or a dedicated thread some priority in the forum so that others may see what we're trying to do here.

[richierich]

Lord Doggie-Doggie Style, pick me up in Atlanta, Ga., I am ready to go!!!

[Worth]

Signed, from another frustrated HR10-250 owner.

[Gotchaa]

Was told that version 6.2 software upgrade was not coming by HD Advanced technical support CSR. Boxes would be upgraded for free to MPEG 4 with a 2 year commitment or at a cost around $200-$300 otherwise. Seems like the upgrade is going to cost D* a bundle with new dishes, installation, and boxes. I've given up on 6.2. I've just seen a friends stand alone box with software version 7, has folders, media streaming support..and it's hell-a-fast. I am so bummed out.

[AstroDad]

signed

[rugby]

Was told that version 6.2 software upgrade was not coming by HD Advanced technical support CSR. Boxes would be upgraded for free to MPEG 4 with a 2 year commitment or at a cost around $200-$300 otherwise. Seems like the upgrade is going to cost D* a bundle with new dishes, installation, and boxes. I've given up on 6.2. I've just seen a friends stand alone box with software version 7, has folders, media streaming support..and it's hell-a-fast. I am so bummed out.

Wait, so if we just signed a 2-year commitment for the HR10-250 we have to sign ANOTHER 2-year commitment? Or pay $200-$300? Sounds like crap to me.

[jaobrien6]

The additional 2 year commitment won't raise your commitment to 4 years (by adding together), it'll just restart your 2 year clock. Not that big of a deal to me.

John

[markb]

Was told that version 6.2 software upgrade was not coming by HD Advanced technical support CSR.

Others have reported that they were told 6.2 is coming, so all this really means is that DirecTV CSRs don't know.

[xanotos]

I'm getting install this Saturday with (finally) the HD TIVO. Is here any chance that my box with have 6.2 installed already? I'm crossing my fingers. I happy with 6.2 on my current box.

[mike1977]

No, there currently is no 6.2 or similar update for the HD TIVO that will make it faster or have folders (the best you can do is use the SORT code).

[TallGuy]

Folders would be nice, but if there WAS a 6.2 for HD-TiVo, it would probably break so many other things and introduce new bugs, that we'd be clamoring to go back to today's version.

I just sort my list alphabetically and use Channel Up/Down to jump around the list 8 shows at a time.

[gcawad]

Done

[DVRaholic]

*Bump*

Lord-Dogbert, How many signatures now ??

[drewcipher]

lord-dogbert - I'll go along for the ride. Pick me up in Waterville, Maine. ;)

Been a long time since I was there. Still have You know whose pub, Big G's, Bonnie's? Does Joe Carter still own the beer store? Wet t-shirt night at the Bob? God, I love that town.

As to my 3 HR10-250s. I want the update, but I don't want the bugs. If we rush it, we might be sorry. I hope they do it and do it right

[tivoboy]

for one, I don't think there is EVER going to be an update. Lately, watching a bunch more HD, using the hr10-250, and REALLY wish it had the snap that the older HDVR3's has, with the latest update. DANG that thing is fast.

at this point, I would PAY another 50$ for the update. Wonder if we could get TIVO to work on it first.

[kbohip]

Been a long time since I was there. Still have You know whose pub, Big G's, Bonnie's? Does Joe Carter still own the beer store? Wet t-shirt night at the Bob? God, I love that town.

As to my 3 HR10-250s. I want the update, but I don't want the bugs. If we rush it, we might be sorry. I hope they do it and do it right

I want the new software so bad I'll even take the bugs! As long as the thing doesn't start crashing and missing recordings ie. Dish DVR then I'm fine.

[lord-dogbert]

*Bump*

Lord-Dogbert, How many signatures now ??


338 and counting. I asked pvrblog to add the petition site, haven't checked to see if it's there.

[Syzygy]

My HD-TiVo is getting slower and slower, and I've rebooted it (because of bugs creeping in) several times in the last month.

I can't stand waiting for the system to respond! Where the he!! is that software update?

Where do I go to add my fargin name to the fargin petition?

[Montana Man]

Signed. I hate this slow as molasses $900 piece of technology. My $100 tivo was so much faster. DAMN YOU HD FOOTBALL!

[tivoboy]

remember the tricks people.

when watching something, on TIVO recorded, try to make sure the unit is on a SD station, will speed up the processes.

When watching football live, (probably a few minutes or more delayed.) try to make sure the OTHER tuner is on SD station.

speeds up the whole process.

[Ba Boop]

Why does anyone think a software update will speed things up? It won't. If you notice it responds faster when both tuners are on SD. It's the processor not the software along with any HD failure. So don't hold your breath...

[SleepyBob]

Why does anyone think a software update will speed things up? It won't. If you notice it responds faster when both tuners are on SD. It's the processor not the software along with any HD failure. So don't hold your breath...

Because a software update on the SD TiVos sped things up when they finally migrated off the old 3.1/4.0 platform. And since the HD TiVo software is based off that same old 3.1 code base, it stands to reason that it has many of the same inefficiencies that previously existed in the old SD TiVo software.

Switching tuners is a minor kludge that provides a minor improvement. There is clearly a lot of improvement that can be gained from a software rewrite that is not processor dependent.

[richierich]

The 6.2 update includes a restructuring of the database which aids in speeding up the data retrieval process and other I/O processes.

[PRMan]

After reading about how TiVo's new Macrovision license requires them to let your content provider delete programs off YOUR TiVo, I think I am about to pull the phone cord instead.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=259169&page=1&pp=30&highlight=macrovision

No new updates, please. Can I UN-sign the petition? I'm halfway serious.

[Sixto]

When I want to speed things up I just tune to a channel that doesn't exist like channel 0 on one tuner and channel 8 on the other. Then nothing gets buffered at all on either tuner and the machine flies! Or just set one tuner to channel 0 and the other tuner will fly.

[MichaelK]

When I want to speed things up I just tune to a channel that doesn't exist like channel 0 on one tuner and channel 8 on the other. Then nothing gets buffered at all on either tuner and the machine flies! Or just set one tuner to channel 0 and the other tuner will fly.

beat me to it!

great point- tuning to sd helps, tuning to the music channels is better, tuning to a channel that doesn't exist is best.

[rodneyb]

I just sort my list alphabetically and use Channel Up/Down to jump around the list 8 shows at a time

How do I sort alphabetically on an HD Tivo?

edit: nevermind...found it in a search:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=259736&highlight=sort

That makes the box a bit more useable for sure. Folders would be bliss, but this helps a great deal.

[looknow12]

I had to dust of this thread before entering. I guess everyone has given up on this considering how old the last activity is.

Is the version 6.x update hopeless? :(

[photokev]

This is really starting to piss me off! Where's our freakin upgrade? Many of us paid a $1000 premium for an HD unit and now they're just screwing us.

[sdchrgrboy]

I wrote to them last week and here is D* response:

Thank you for writing. We are sorry to hear of your frustration regarding your HR10-250 receiver. The DIRECTV DVR 6.2 upgrade will enhance your DVR experience by making the navigation faster and giving you new ways to organize and search for programs. The HD-DVR (DIRECTV HR10-250) will get this upgrade, but the date has yet to be determined. To find out more, please visit our web site at directv.com/dvr62upgrade.

In addition, I understand your concern about how our transition to MPEG-4 transmission will affect any MPEG-2 equipment you may have. Let me reassure you that most customers will be able to use their MPEG-2 equipment for quite some time.

At this time, our current HD programming will continue to be broadcast using the MPEG-2 standard; MPEG-4 technology will be used only to provide local HD programming in select cities. (Atlanta, Boston, Chicago, Dallas, Detroit, Houston, Los Angeles, New York, Philadelphia, San Francisco, Tampa and Washington, D.C. are expected to launch this year, with more to be added throughout the next year.)

Once local HD programming launches in your city, you will be eligible for an MPEG-4-capable receiver replacement. If you want to replace your HD DVR, you may need to wait a bit longer. Our new MPEG-4-capable DIRECTV HD DVR is expected to be available sometime in 2006.

If you have any additional concerns or questions regarding these issues, you also have the option of contacting our Customer Service Department at (800) 531-5000. One of our Customer Service Representatives will be able to assist you further.

Thanks again for writing. More details will be available when we launch the local HD service in your area, so watch your local TV, radio or mailbox for upcoming announcements or visit DIRECTV.com/HD for the latest news.

[Dirac]

Nothing new. The web page hasn't been updated with new HR10-250 info either. Frustrating.

[Adam1115]

Are you guys just worked up over this Folders and a little better speed?

MRV won't work with it, unless you had to HR10's...

[diagoro]

I get the feeling that the 'pending' conversion to mpg4 boxes negates their obligation, at least in their minds. Besides, the boxes aren't 'broken'....only slow, etc.

All from their point of view of course.

I've been asking about this for months, having called customer service, etc. at least once a month for other issues. No one has ever admitted knowing anything about an upgrade. One rep promised to check it out but I never heard anything back. I just asked again today with the same old 'I've never heard of any upgrades'.

I'm pissed as well, considering all the issues with the unit.

[jhimmel]

Are you guys just worked up over this Folders and a little better speed?

Yes. Actually, I couldn't care less about the folders. The performance increase is what I am after. Some tasks, like SP sorting, got quite a significant gain in performance on my HDVR2s.

[GalenMD]

I used my wife's HDVR2 for the first time in awhile yesterday. I was shocked by how fast it worked. I am tired of waiting several minutes just to record a show that is already playing. This becomes even longer for shows selected at another time. Yes, I know the little tricks, like tuning one of the tuners to a non-existant channel, to get the unit to respond faster, but who wants to do that?

Honestly, I think I could slip in a VHS tape and program the player to record the time I want faster than the HR10-250. Of course, that would be if I even owned a VCR anymore...

[Juppers]

I'm waiting for folders, faster response, and hopefully native passthru.

[Dmtalon]

I'm waiting for folders, faster response, and hopefully native passthru.

I miss folders most of all... My season passes are set and I don't usually watch a lot of live TV anyway, just what's been recorded, so I don't do a lot of "oh... Record this" stuff. I just turn the TV on, and go to "Now Playing"

Folders would make *my* experience much better. I've got an SA2 Tivo so I do *know* what I'm mising :(

[Kevin L]

Are you guys just worked up over this Folders and a little better speed?

MRV won't work with it, unless you had to HR10's...Uhhh... yes.

I have multiple drives in my three HR10s and the speed is pathetically slow. Plus, with dozens of shows in NP, folders are handy. The speed increase on my upgraded HDVR2s was noticeable, and I'm hoping for the same gain on my HR10s.

[k2ue]

Native passthru seems to be better in theory than in reality -- I've had two other HD receivers that offer it, and I found the delay time as the TV figures out what the new sweep rate is and adjusts to it is very annoying. I'm also not so sure it does any good: recording HDNET 1080i test patterns and playing back in various modes (on my 720p Samsung) I find that resolution is best, and balanced V vs. H, when played back at 720p, not 1080i (to be converted in the TV), and SD broadcasts look better at 720p than 480i or 480p. So Native is enthralling in concept -- but unncessary in reality.

What I would like to see is a letterbox zoom, so that the increasingly frequent letterboxed movies on SD channels can be expanded to fill a 16:9 screen (without distortion).

[AbMagFab]

Native passthru seems to be better in theory than in reality -- I've had two other HD receivers that offer it, and I found the delay time as the TV figures out what the new sweep rate is and adjusts to it is very annoying. I'm also not so sure it does any good: recording HDNET 1080i test patterns and playing back in various modes (on my 720p Samsung) I find that resolution is best, and balanced V vs. H, when played back at 720p, not 1080i (to be converted in the TV), and SD broadcasts look better at 720p than 480i or 480p. So Native is enthralling in concept -- but unncessary in reality.

What I would like to see is a letterbox zoom, so that the increasingly frequent letterboxed movies on SD channels can be expanded to fill a 16:9 screen (without distortion).
Letterbox Zoom is a TV function, not a receiver function. My HD TV allows me to zoom an HD picture, without distortion, so I can watch an SD letterboxed show with the screen filled at 1080i (or 720p).

(One of my HD TV's lets me do this. The other one doesn't, so I either suffer through the picture box, or switch to 480i so I can use the Zoom on the TV.)

[k2ue]

Letterbox Zoom is a TV function, not a receiver function.

Gee, is that being spoken ex cathedra ?

[AbMagFab]

Every 16x9 TV has a basic Zoom function, which is what the OP is talking about. It's a TV function as a result, de facto.

Some older 16x9 HD TV's wouldn't let you do Zoom on a 720p or 1080i signal. However all newer HD TV's (that I've seen) have that restriction removed.

[k2ue]

Every 16x9 TV has a basic Zoom function, which is what the OP is talking about. It's a TV function as a result, de facto.

Some older 16x9 HD TV's wouldn't let you do Zoom on a 720p or 1080i signal. However all newer HD TV's (that I've seen) have that restriction removed.

Samsung has a big piece of the HD market, no? Samsungs don't do zoom when using the DVI or HDMI inputs, only component. I'd be surprised if they were alone in that limitation. Or do real videophiles only use component?

[RMSko]

Samsung has a big piece of the HD market, no? Samsungs don't do zoom when using the DVI or HDMI inputs, only component. I'd be surprised if they were alone in that limitation. Or do real videophiles only use component?
I can confirm that this statement is correct, at least as far as Samsung's DLP sets go. With HDMI you only have two choices, 16x9 or 4x3, there is no zoom option.

[Eben]

For comparison, I have a Toshiba 57h84 rptv. It is not a plasma, LCD, or DLP but its native res is 1080i (540p). It will accept and display any 480i, 480p, 720p, or 1080i signal (converting it, if necessary, to 1080i (or 540p)). With my LG 4200a or H10-250, connected via HDMI, if the output is set to 1080i I can use the TV's zoom function (it also works on 480i and p, but not 720p).

[tony17]

I can confirm that this statement is correct, at least as far as Samsung's DLP sets go. With HDMI you only have two choices, 16x9 or 4x3, there is no zoom option.

That is definitely only a function of the TV however. MY NEC plasma will Zoom while using the HDMI/DVI. I believe there are other brands that will zoom as well.

[tucsonbill]

So Native is enthralling in concept -- but unncessary in reality. Not necessary, but would still be useful for some of us. I modulate my two HR10-250s and two Pansasonic Showstoppers onto four uhf channels that I distribute throughout the house. To view the HD boxes in one of the bedrooms or the sewing room we obviously have to switch the output to 480i. My wife has learned to push the up arrow twice if she has no picture, and it isn't that big a deal, but since all of her daytime DTV viewing is 480i it would simplify things.
What I would like to see is a letterbox zoom, so that the increasingly frequent letterboxed movies on SD channels can be expanded to fill a 16:9 screen (without distortion). I'd also like this even more than native passthrough. Yeah, I read all the other responses about this being a function of the TV, but unfortunately it's not a function available on my 4:3 ntsc sets in the rooms served by my internal cable system. Since all of the local digital stations broadcast their 4:3 daytime content as pillarboxed 16:9, our only options currently are to watch a letterboxed pillarboxed image in the center of the screen or a squeezed pillarboxed image.

[lord-dogbert]

I've been derilect in my duties to deliver the petition to El Segundo for personal reasons. I'm back on the air now and plan to go next week.

[DVRaholic]

lord-dogbert, How many signatures do you have ??

[lord-dogbert]

465 unhappy customers.

[pkscout]

465 unhappy customers.

drip, drip, drip.

That's the sound of 465 customers being a drop in the bucket for DirecTV. As much as I would like 6.2 for my HDTiVo, I have become resigned to the fact that it will never happen, and 465 (and frankly ten times that many) just isn't going to make a difference.

Really, unless you have a black robot car that is bullet proof, one person really can't make a difference. :(

[Iwanthd]

Here's one person who made a difference.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/11/02/rosa.parks.ap/index.html

[AstroDad]

Here's one person who made a difference.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/11/02/rosa.parks.ap/index.html

Please don't insult the memory of Rosa Parks by comparing what she did to bitching about an update on our toys

[Iwanthd]

It was not intended as an insult. I believe that Rosa Parks is one of our greatest American citizens. Sorry if I offended.

[jmathey]

Perhaps we should organize a calling campaign. I know it's usually a waste of time, but it might nudge them in the right direction if they get 50 - 100 calls per day requesting 6.2. I just purchased the HR10-250, I had the Philips (NON-HD) that has has the upgrade for a couple of months. I can't believe how painstakingly slow the new one is. I don't care too much about the folders, and the sort I can use the hidden s0RT function, it's the damn speed!!!

[jmathey]

I've been derilect in my duties to deliver the petition to El Segundo for personal reasons. I'm back on the air now and plan to go next week.


Where is the petition, I'm happy to sign, and probably can pass the link to 5 or 10 of my fellow disgrunted Tivo'ers.

[ddruker]

So is the basic assumption now that this is just totally dead and we will never see 6.2 ? Does anyone know if either Tivo or DTV are working on it ?

[lord-dogbert]

Where is the petition, I'm happy to sign, and probably can pass the link to 5 or 10 of my fellow disgrunted Tivo'ers.
Hi,

http://www.ipetitions.com/campaigns/hr10-250_6.2_update/

I am waiting on someone from public relations to call me back today or tomorrow to arrange to personally deliver the petitions next week. Please sign quickly as next week is it.

[broken back]

#1 What does the cost of the 6.2 upgrade cost *D* per machine (HR10-250)
#2 If the cost per person was small, would you be willing to pay *D* for the download.

[luebster]

The cost per machine is negligible for the actual upgrade. However, they would have to pay the programmers to actually code the upgrade.

Probably not worth it at this point, since its replacement is 6-12 months away.

[lord-dogbert]

We already paid in a sense.

One of my questions to Donna Underhill at Directv Public Relations is, if Directv wont release it then give us the source and what is broken to keep it from being released and let some of the coding geniuses here and in the other forums at it. I'm sure that if DTV can't figure it out then we can.

[richierich]

I predicted several months ago that they would never release it because they do not want it to compete with their new DVR coming out in the next 6 months. Hello folks, this is a corporation with their OWN AGENDA for making PROFITS and if they can keep people dissastified with the HR10-250 then you will welcome their new MPEG-4 DVR and will gladly jump ship from your current unit. The code for the most part is in place and just needs to be tweeked for this particular unit. I was a programmer for 30 years and it is not that difficult to do. Therefore, don't you guys see what is going on. Look at my past posts. I predicted that you will NEVER see the new release.

[aphex187]

Maybe this has already been tried but is there a huge difference between what runs on our HR10-250's now and the 3.x versions that were on the other DTivos? Is there a chance of reverse engineering, etc?

[pkscout]

I predicted several months ago that they would never release it because they do not want it to compete with their new DVR coming out in the next 6 months. Hello folks, this is a corporation with their OWN AGENDA for making PROFITS and if they can keep people dissastified with the HR10-250 then you will welcome their new MPEG-4 DVR and will gladly jump ship from your current unit. The code for the most part is in place and just needs to be tweeked for this particular unit. I was a programmer for 30 years and it is not that difficult to do. Therefore, don't you guys see what is going on. Look at my past posts. I predicted that you will NEVER see the new release.

In that sense I think DirecTV's strategy will work. I will be jumping ship from the HD-TiVo, but since I'm going to have to move to a new platform I've decided to look very seriously at building my own MythTV box. Yes, the hardware will cost me a bit more than the HDTiVo did to get 2 ATSC and 2 analog cable tuners. Yes, it will be analog cable instead of digital satellite (or digital cable for that matter). But if I'm going to be forced off TiVo I may as well look at all the options.

[cheer]

Maybe this has already been tried but is there a huge difference between what runs on our HR10-250's now and the 3.x versions that were on the other DTivos? Is there a chance of reverse engineering, etc?
Anythings possible, but AFAIK none of the SD DTivo versions (3.1.1x, 6.x, etc.) have any of the HD code in them.

[Adam1115]

So I watch ESPNHD, HBOHD, SHOHD, CBS and FOX in HD. My viewing is about 5 hours a week in HD. Since 6.2 won't do much other than speed the thing up I can live without it.

I really wish they'd spend the effort on getting the HR20 on the street, swap me out and get the Denver HD-LIL up instead of wasting time on 6.2 on an EOL receiver..

[looknow12]

I predicted several months ago that they would never release it because they do not want it to compete with their new DVR coming out in the next 6 months. Hello folks, this is a corporation with their OWN AGENDA for making PROFITS and if they can keep people dissastified with the HR10-250 then you will welcome their new MPEG-4 DVR and will gladly jump ship from your current unit. The code for the most part is in place and just needs to be tweeked for this particular unit. I was a programmer for 30 years and it is not that difficult to do. Therefore, don't you guys see what is going on. Look at my past posts. I predicted that you will NEVER see the new release.

Yes but there won't be any competition with the new MPEG format coming out. Directv will make sure of that with severing their agreement with Tivo to create future TIVO MPEG-4 compatible receivers. And if the existing HR10 won't receive all of the new HD channels everyone will jump ship from it regardless of a 6.2 upgrade.

There has to be another reason Directv is holding out.

[richierich]

Most of the HD channels will be Local Stations and even if there is a new MPEG-4 channel added it will also be broadcast in MPEG-2 for at least 2 years so as not to lose existing customers who do not have an MPEG-4 STB. An awful lot of people have local stations via OTA such as myself so I am not interested in going to an MPEG-4 STB or DVR just to get those locals in MPEG-4 via D* which may cost me money to subscribe to them along with the new dish installation etc. So I am happy to stay with my 2 HR10-250s both with 600 gig of hd memory and get FREE locals via OTA.

[looknow12]

Most of the HD channels will be Local Stations and even if there is a new MPEG-4 channel added it will also be broadcast in MPEG-2 for at least 2 years so as not to lose existing customers who do not have an MPEG-4 STB. An awful lot of people have local stations via OTA such as myself so I am not interested in going to an MPEG-4 STB or DVR just to get those locals in MPEG-4 via D* which may cost me money to subscribe to them along with the new dish installation etc. So I am happy to stay with my 2 HR10-250s both with 600 gig of hd memory and get FREE locals via OTA.

I thought there was not enough bandwidth capacity to add more HD channels which is why they're changing to MPEG4 because it allows for more channels due to its higher compression. It doesn't make sense if they simulcast new MPEG-4 channels to MPEG-2 format as well.

[richierich]

They will keep the MPEG-2 channel as they add it to the MPEG-4 channel lineup. If they come up with a new channel that is not in the MPEG-2 channel lineup, they will probably not add it to the MPEG-2 lineup but until everyone is converted they will not do away with the current MPEG-2 lineup because they would lose customers that have not or do not want to convert. The first 2 years of this effort will be to add local channels for the Top 50 markets and maybe a few new channels in the new MPEG-4 format. After that is done and they have converted the majority of their customers to a MPEG-4 STB or DVR then they may start to get rid of the MPEG-2 channels to free up space but that will probably be 2 to 3 years down the road. If you get your locals via OTA then who cares?

[looknow12]

They will keep the MPEG-2 channel as they add it to the MPEG-4 channel lineup. If they come up with a new channel that is not in the MPEG-2 channel lineup, they will probably not add it to the MPEG-2 lineup but until everyone is converted they will not do away with the current MPEG-2 lineup because they would lose customers that have not or do not want to convert. The first 2 years of this effort will be to add local channels for the Top 50 markets and maybe a few new channels in the new MPEG-4 format. After that is done and they have converted the majority of their customers to a MPEG-4 STB or DVR then they may start to get rid of the MPEG-2 channels to free up space but that will probably be 2 to 3 years down the road. If you get your locals via OTA then who cares?

Right so I don't think they will simulcast new MPEG-4 channels to MPEG-2 channels. Having said that, as new channels come out, HR10 subscribers will be out of luck. To spend 1000 per receiver for three receivers and to only get a small handful of HD channels while Directv continues to add new ones will irritate many HR10 Directv subscribers.

[KenW]

I think it would be a mistake to limit HD channels to MPEG4 until they come out with an HD DVR. DVR customers are their best customers with the highest retention. The HD DVR is just too far away, and I think it would hurt them.

[oldguy]

Yes but there won't be any competition with the new MPEG format coming out. Directv will make sure of that with severing their agreement with Tivo to create future TIVO MPEG-4 compatible receivers. And if the existing HR10 won't receive all of the new HD channels everyone will jump ship from it regardless of a 6.2 upgrade.

There has to be another reason Directv is holding out.

Could the reason for no 6.2 update be that D* burned their bridges too soon with TIVO?

If TIVO was doing the programming for D* and D* told them they were going to start competing with them with their own units built by someone else, then it would not surprise me if TIVO said tough sh** when asked to continue software support.

That is, assuming TIVO provided the software support.

But, if TIVO has patients to a lot of the software features (such as the 30 second skip), they also may not let D* reprogrram the existing units and retain these features.

[rlinsurf]

Hi,

http://www.ipetitions.com/campaigns/hr10-250_6.2_update/

I am waiting on someone from public relations to call me back today or tomorrow to arrange to personally deliver the petitions next week. Please sign quickly as next week is it.

Just saw/signed it... did you already deliver them?

All My Best,
Jeffrey

[richierich]

If they are coming out with their own DVR which will directly compete with the HR10-250 then why spend your resources enhancing it when you can direct those resources at your new DVR? Why make your competitor's DVR look better when it will to some extent compete with your own DVR?

[Juppers]

If they are coming out with their own DVR which will directly compete with the HR10-250 then why spend your resources enhancing it when you can direct those resources at your new DVR? Why make your competitor's DVR look better when it will to some extent compete with your own DVR?

Because one the customer level, you have marketed it as a DTV HD DVR. It isn't a competitor's unit, it is their own branded unit. The real question is why abuse customers by not making the unit run as well as possible. They not want good word of mouth about their HD product? They want people saying their HD DVR is horribly slow? Considering the HR10-250 is the only HD DVR they have for at least 6 more months, they need to improve it to help promote their new HD DVR when it is finally ready.

[christoc]

I guess I can quit having my new HR10-250 dial in over and over again thinking it would get the 6.2 update! I just got it Saturday and knew that my R10 had 6.2, and my old Hughes that I hooked up after a year of not being connected got updated. I assumed the 250 would as well.

That kinda sucks, it is slow as hell!

[txfeinbergs]

Anyone have any updates to this?

[richierich]

I said all along that I believe that you will never get it and so far it looks like I am PSYCHIC!!! Forget about it!!! It ain't happening!!!

[scooby2]

The hr10-250 is dead to directv. wake up and smell reality folks.

[lord-dogbert]

:mad: Just saw/signed it... did you already deliver them?

All My Best,
Jeffrey

Unfortunately I have not been able to gain an audience at Direct's corporate. My Public Relations contact, Donna Underhill is blowing me off and not returning phone calls. I have an old buddy that works in El Segundo who's going to look up her bosses info so that I can go that route. He and I are having lunch next week so I am going to bring the petition with me as well as my account number and DirecTv stock info. One share of stock means that I have a stake in the company and they have to listen to a stockholder more than a mere customer.

[DVRaholic]

Thanks for trying Lord-dogbert :up: ... But with the New NDS HR20-250 Due out in less than 2 months (Mid Feb acording to Earl and Robert) I seriously dobt your efforts will make any difference.

Thanks again!

[bigrig]

I said all along that I believe that you will never get it and so far it looks like I am PSYCHIC!!! Forget about it!!! It ain't happening!!!
I have very exciting news! Naomi the CSR says we will get the 6.2 upgrade!

Dear Mr. Bigrig,

Thank you for writing DIRECTV. I am sorry to hear of the inconvenience this situation has caused. Please know that the HD DVR receiver (DIRECTV HR10-250), will get the 6.2 upgrade. However, the date has yet to be determined. Please stay tuned to directv.com/dvr62upgrade for the latest updates as it becomes available.

Also, I am sorry to hear about the technical problem you're having. Since it's difficult to troubleshoot technical issues by email, please call our technical support center and discuss the problem with one of our technical representatives. To reach them, just call 1-800-531-5000 and select the option for technical assistance.

Thanks again for writing and I hope we're able to fix the problem quickly.

Sincerely,

Naomi
DIRECTV Customer Service
And we all know how reliable the word of a CSR is! :p

Dogbert, I hope you can get an audience! :up:

Matt

[mikeny]

I've seen that form letter before. Ha.

Unfortunately, the only real way we'll ever see folders on the HR10-250 is by (caution here if your not comfortable with handling the unit) delicately folding a piece of construction paper in half and cafefully mounting it on top of the unit. There you go.

[flmgrip]

i had a tivo with 3.x for years and was happy. long time after i read about the 6.x upgrade i finally downloaded it a friends house and i did not notice any exciting new things with it. so what's the big deal ? i love HD and i love my tivo...

[litzdog911]

i had a tivo with 3.x for years and was happy. long time after i read about the 6.x upgrade i finally downloaded it a friends house and i did not notice any exciting new things with it. so what's the big deal ? i love HD and i love my tivo...

The ability to group multiple recordings for the same Series into Folders is one feature many of us would like to have.

[Juppers]

My biggest want would be the responsive program guide. Having a 6.2 box to compare with, the hr10-250 is nearly unbearable.

A nice thing to have would be a native passthrough function. I've heard rumors that was planned for the next release for these things.

[fasTLane]

Native passthrough? Is that possible?

[joetoronto]

ok, i'm confused. :confused:

on this site..... http://directv.com/see/landing/dvr_upgrade.html it says the HR10-250 will NOT be getting the upgrade but if you look closely, there's a Tivo icon sitting in the middle of the screen.

I just bought one of these units, as a matter of fact, it's on it's way now from california. it sure looks like i wasted $500.00us. :rolleyes:

just how slow is the guide anyway?

thanks, joe.

[Runch Machine]

It's not that slow. It takes about 3 seconds to load a program guide screen. It can take a minute or two to schedule a recording though. Not a factor for me usually since 99% of what I watch come from season passes.

[richierich]

I have very exciting news! Naomi the CSR says we will get the 6.2 upgrade!


And we all know how reliable the word of a CSR is! :p

Dogbert, I hope you can get an audience! :up:

Matt

STOP IT BIGRIG, you are killing me with laughter, I just fell off of my chair laughing. The only people who have less credibility than the D* CSRs are my BMW dealer service reps who have screwed me so many times I feel like a prostitute. I was the first person to buy and activate an HR10-250 with D* on April 12th at 9:00 A.M. and I had to tell the CSR how to do it, she thought it was a Hughes box and I had to tell her to look at the D* list of DVRs for instructions on how to activate it and she finally found that folder (she didn't even know that it existed). They are like the CIA, on a need to know basis. We know more info than they do.

If you believe them however, I will sell you some wonderful waterfront property just north of Miami and because you are such a nice guy I'll give you a great deal.

[joetoronto]

It's not that slow. It takes about 3 seconds to load a program guide screen. It can take a minute or two to schedule a recording though. Not a factor for me usually since 99% of what I watch come from season passes.

that's not so bad. thanks, machine.

[Klankster]

It can take a minute or two to schedule a recording though. Not a factor for me usually since 99% of what I watch come from season passes.
I was wondering if anyone else was having this trouble! It's about driving my wife nuts when she sets up recordings -- Sometimes it can take well over a minute on our HR10-250. Is this common, or is it due to the drives getting fragmented? Any fix for it?

Actually, after reading some of the postings here I consider myself lucky this is the extent of our problems with this unit (actually, the HDMI port stopped working a while back but the component HD output works OK, so I haven't bothered getting a replacement, though I did notify the dealer about the problem)...

[LlamaLarry]

The delay you mention is not specific to the HDTiVo, SD DirecTiVos had the same problem before 6.2.

[richierich]

The upgrade restructures the database so the retrieval process is faster. It needs a faster CPU.