Will the HR10-250 EVER get the 6.2 Update ??

[tomr]

...
Like a user calling in to a tech support center and stating their thingie does not work.

Hmmm, sounds like a personal problem to me that DirecTV can't fix! :)

[wje]

HD streams contain much more data than SD streams so your HDD is work much harder (~6x) - all the time if you only tune/record HD channels. Rotational wear is the same but the stepper motors for the heads will be worked much harder.
Paul

All modern drives use voice-coil positioners for the heads, steppers are far too slow. The only moving part is the actuator arm and its bearing. Of course, the more the head moves, the more power is used, raising the internal temperature. High heat is a real lifetime-shortener for the electronics.

The primary failure mode actually seems to be surface defects developing on the platters themselves (bad blocks). Some drives are better than others. Part of the problem is that the hd manufacturers just aren't building them as well as they used to, a natural consequence of the dramatically slimmer profit margins. Also, the clearance between head and disk has gotten very, very small. So, defects that woudn't have made a difference in the past are now more serious.

For long-term use (years), the failing component is likely to be the spindle or actuator arm bearings.

[MichaelK]

All modern drives use voice-coil positioners for the heads, steppers are far too slow. The only moving part is the actuator arm and its bearing. Of course, the more the head moves, the more power is used, raising the internal temperature. High heat is a real lifetime-shortener for the electronics.

The primary failure mode actually seems to be surface defects developing on the platters themselves (bad blocks). Some drives are better than others. Part of the problem is that the hd manufacturers just aren't building them as well as they used to, a natural consequence of the dramatically slimmer profit margins. Also, the clearance between head and disk has gotten very, very small. So, defects that woudn't have made a difference in the past are now more serious.

For long-term use (years), the failing component is likely to be the spindle or actuator arm bearings.

since modern drive failures seem to be relaated to surface defects, I'm wondering if the little magnetic bits getting flipped 6 times more often wth HD could make the mean time between failures 6 times sooner?

[elitty]

Hello, I purchased my Tivo Hr10 250 unit awhile ago and spent $1,000.00 . I have heard some talk about my unit being swapped out for a newer unit that does not have Tivo. I don't want to swap or loose the tivo hd feature. Is there anything being discussed along these lines by D?

[cheer]

If you want to get your local market stations in HD from D* (and you want a DVR) then you'll need the new MPEG4-based HR20 DVR. It's not a Tivo. It appears likely that D* will swap out your HR10-250.

However, if you don't want the HD locals, you don't need to give up your HR10-250.

[maldini]

If you want to get your local market stations in HD from D* (and you want a DVR) then you'll need the new MPEG4-based HR20 DVR. It's not a Tivo. It appears likely that D* will swap out your HR10-250.

However, if you don't want the HD locals, you don't need to give up your HR10-250.

Its logical to assume that eventually non local HD channels will be available only in MPEG4 and as such even if you did get your locals via OTA, you might still have to give up the HR10-250 to get the new HD channels.

Maldini

[cheer]

Its logical to assume that eventually non local HD channels will be available only in MPEG4 and as such even if you did get your locals via OTA, you might still have to give up the HR10-250 to get the new HD channels.
Sure. But when? I'd guess national MPEG4 channels won't happen until after the locals rollout. After all, as soon as D* starts moving nationals to MPEG4 they also have to start upgrading everybody's receivers -- not a small (nor inexpensive) task.

I'd wager we're at least 2-3 years away from national MPEG4 channels. At least.

[drewcipher]

They need to come out with their HD unit before anything happens. Or has it come out under my nose?

[MichaelK]

Sure. But when? I'd guess national MPEG4 channels won't happen until after the locals rollout. After all, as soon as D* starts moving nationals to MPEG4 they also have to start upgrading everybody's receivers -- not a small (nor inexpensive) task.

I'd wager we're at least 2-3 years away from national MPEG4 channels. At least.

While it will be some time. - I don’t expect them to launch directway10 early in 2007 (1 year ish) and have it sit around unused for another year or 2 to get to your 2-3 year estimate of new national channels.

I would assume that since it can handle 75 national HD channels that new national content will be available from Directv 10 shortly after it gets operational (I guess that could be 2 years but 3 years seems a little long). Since getting Ka will require a dsih swap anyhow, I cant imagine them not throwing in a new box and putting everything new on the KA birds in MPEG4.

[NightmarePatrol]

since modern drive failures seem to be relaated to surface defects, I'm wondering if the little magnetic bits getting flipped 6 times more often wth HD could make the mean time between failures 6 times sooner?

Ummm... No. The disks (drives) in a TiVo aren't any different than what goes into a regular desktop computer. Many desktop computers disks see much harder use than your TiVO (unless you are recording/watching almost 24 hours per day) and flip the bits a whole lot more.

As stated above, it's most like the quality of parts involved in making the box. One possible contributing factor (and this is a BIG stretch) is that most drives are badly fragmented, which results in additional head movement. Even then... the MTBF should still be a ways out on the calendar.

[D_Doherty]

Ummm... No. The disks (drives) in a TiVo aren't any different than what goes into a regular desktop computer. Many desktop computers disks see much harder use than your TiVO (unless you are recording/watching almost 24 hours per day) and flip the bits a whole lot more.


Ummm... Yes the tivo's drives are in constant use (24 hours/day) unless you pull the power cord out.

[NightmarePatrol]

Ummm... no, the drives are in use, but they do not perform as many seek/read/write operations as many hard drives that last much longer. I'm not talking about the amount of time the drive spends spun-up, but the amount of seek/read/write operations that are being performed, specifically - things that cause head movement and read write operations to occur. Capturing an MPEG data stream does not really put that much of a load on a drive at all in the scheme of things.

The disk drives on some of my home systems (up 24x7) are performing much higher rates of operation than what they are on the TiVo. An HR10-250 can hold 30 hours of HD programming. That's 8gb (rough) per hour maxed out. Even if you are recording two shows and watching another, that's not an astounding transfer rate at all.

[D_Doherty]

It is not a matter of IF two shows are being recorded; unless you tune to non-existent channels the tivo is always recording two channels at a time.

If those channels both happen to be OTA channels then you will be writing 2 * 19.2 Mb/s or about 17GB/hour.

[NightmarePatrol]

It's still not a massive amount of data. And yes, they are in use all the time. They still should not wear out as quickly.

[wje]

Ummm... No. The disks (drives) in a TiVo aren't any different than what goes into a regular desktop computer.

Maybe, maybe not. I haven't bothered to check what's in the HR10. But, several drive manufacturers make drives 'optimized' for video stream handling. What this basically means is that they don't do bad-block rereads or rewrites when streaming data, the idea being a dropped block is less likely to be noticed than a bunch of rereads. One aspect of HR10 drive failures seems to be related to doing rereads, so perhaps the HR10 doesn't use these. Still shouldn't have such a high failure rate, but it's possible that if the drive is doing bunches of rereads, the increased electronics heating is causing problems. One would think they could just map out bad blocks, but apparently not.

[NightmarePatrol]

It's unknown (at least to me) how the drive is mapped out. At first glance there is probably a separate logical volume for the tuner backup/pause/rewind/whatever and a separate volume for recorded viewings. We (me included) are also making a lot of assumptions about the internal workings of the unit. I'm assuming that it's a standard 5400rpm IDE drive siting on a PCI bus running their proprietary OS. I'm also assuming that they have a reasonable amount of cache on board and are performing deferred writes whenever possible. Either way, a disk drive should last longer. Mine is still running and I hope I never have to go through the hassle of swapping it out.

[SecureTalk]

It's unknown (at least to me) how the drive is mapped out. At first glance there is probably a separate logical volume for the tuner backup/pause/rewind/whatever and a separate volume for recorded viewings. We (me included) are also making a lot of assumptions about the internal workings of the unit. I'm assuming that it's a standard 5400rpm IDE drive siting on a PCI bus running their proprietary OS. I'm also assuming that they have a reasonable amount of cache on board and are performing deferred writes whenever possible. Either way, a disk drive should last longer. Mine is still running and I hope I never have to go through the hassle of swapping it out.

The DirecTV TiVo DVR runs Linux for it's OS.. not very proprietary. DirecTV switched to a proprietary OS for it's own line of DVRs. Meaning making it very hard to hack to add features or use for other purposes. I would not be surprised to see TiVo switch from using an open OS like Linux in it's Series 1 and Series 2 DVRs to a closed (proprietary) OS in the Series 3 DVRs.

It's a shame if that happens. Most of us hack our TiVo's to add features we feel are lacking or to add additional functionality. I even use my retired T-60s as headless PCs. They are basically running a few programs I wrote, that don't need much horse power, but benefit from running on a stable platform and OS (unlike the unstable MS OS). These headless DirecTiVo units are fully connected to the internet and my LAN and pull and store information in a database providing information to remote web applications. If these units had been running a proprietary OS I would not have been able to use the damaged T-60s for anything and they would have been destained for the scrapheap.

[stevel]

Yes, TiVos run Linux but they run proprietary software on top of Linux.

[jhimmel]

Yes, TiVos run Linux but they run proprietary software on top of Linux.

Well, of course they do, but he was responding to NightmarePatrol who assumed that TiVo ran on a proprietary OS.

Jim H.

[MichaelK]

Ummm... no, the drives are in use, but they do not perform as many seek/read/write operations as many hard drives that last much longer. I'm not talking about the amount of time the drive spends spun-up, but the amount of seek/read/write operations that are being performed, specifically - things that cause head movement and read write operations to occur. Capturing an MPEG data stream does not really put that much of a load on a drive at all in the scheme of things.

The disk drives on some of my home systems (up 24x7) are performing much higher rates of operation than what they are on the TiVo. An HR10-250 can hold 30 hours of HD programming. That's 8gb (rough) per hour maxed out. Even if you are recording two shows and watching another, that's not an astounding transfer rate at all.


I'm not talking about seeks. WIth the huge block sizes- no doubt tivo can have a lot less seeks than many drives. My question is baout the writes- I would GUESS most storage devices predominately READ the date with occasional writes. Home PC for example- I write documents or store digital media surfe the web and cashe pages all of which are read many time more then they are written too. The server that runs this board- most of the data is written once and then read hundreds or thousands of times.

So the fact that the Tivo's are basically always writing over past data thereby flipping the bits more frequently- would that matter? (I aint a clue that's why I asked)

[rttrek]

No, that would *not* matter. Reversing magnetic fields doesn't cause wear like seeking and rotation do, and of course rotation is the same on any drive that's up all the time.

Well, that's not entirely true... a 5400 RPM drive has less war from rotation 24/7/365 than a 7200 RPM drive does, due to fewer actual rotations and less heat. Note that the built-in drives on TiVos are generally 5400 RPM.

[NightmarePatrol]

From what I understand the OS is 99%+ Linux off the shelf. There have been a few tweaks made to it to accommodate the actual application. By my definition, that' s proprietery. I have not idea how that and the GPL interact. I know that at my job we have similar devices that have special version of linux that aren't entirely off-the shelf.

As for the number of seeks a drive performs... That can be reduced by cleaning up old recordings or moving them off. As the drive becomes fragmented those huge data blocks you mentioned may not fit contiguously from the spot originally chosen. This causes a "split I/O", causing the drive to perform multiple seeks to write a single block data.

I just want my software update, that's all.

[richierich]

I understand that we are getting very close to getting the new 6.2 update and I am so excited I could just ****!!! Does anybody know the exact date? Boy this will be exciting as I have told many people as long as a year ago that it will never happen and I guess I am wrong. I want everyone to PM me as soon as they get their update.

[Dirac]

DNFTT...

[Todd]

I understand that we are getting very close to getting the new 6.2 update and I am so excited I could just ****!!! Does anybody know the exact date? Boy this will be exciting as I have told many people as long as a year ago that it will never happen and I guess I am wrong. I want everyone to PM me as soon as they get their update.
Huh?? :confused:

[pkscout]

I understand that we are getting very close to getting the new 6.2 update and I am so excited I could just ****!!! Does anybody know the exact date? Boy this will be exciting as I have told many people as long as a year ago that it will never happen and I guess I am wrong. I want everyone to PM me as soon as they get their update.

I suppose the good news is we won't need to ask the admins to increase the PM quota to deal with the flood of PMs. ;)

[solomita]

I don't care to predict if the update will come, instead I'll say that I don't want it! I don't trust DTV to test it thoroughly and to send out another update to fix any newly introduced bugs. I'd rather keep what I have than play roulette with an update for a product that is being phased out and whose software is written by a company no longer in a good relationship with DTV.

But my wishes mean nothing, and time will tell.

[codespy]

Excellent point. Never thought of it that way. Hell, just look at the R15. This thing freezes so much I'm thinking of throwing pizzas, steaks and ice cream in it, no matter what updates I'ts had!

[k1114]

I understand that we are getting very close to getting the new 6.2 update and I am so excited I could just ****!!! Does anybody know the exact date? Boy this will be exciting as I have told many people as long as a year ago that it will never happen and I guess I am wrong. I want everyone to PM me as soon as they get their update.

I haven't heard a word about the 6.2 update, although if I get it i'll be sure to post

[AbMagFab]

We're never getting 6.2 for the HR10. Can we please close this thread or something? It's troll food at this point.

If you want 6.2 (or better), you'll have to wait for the Tivo Series 3 (and dump DirecTV).

[Guindalf]

I understand that we are getting very close to getting the new 6.2 update and I am so excited I could just ****!!! Does anybody know the exact date? Boy this will be exciting as I have told many people as long as a year ago that it will never happen and I guess I am wrong. I want everyone to PM me as soon as they get their update.


and by "I understand", what exactly do you mean? You appear to have a hot line to information that no-one else has! :rolleyes:

[Syzygy]

It's been said before — probably even in this very thread — yet it bears repeating:

If your HR10-250's interface has gotten so slow you can't take it anymore, then it's time to defrag your hard drive [Messages & Setup -> Restart or Reset System -> Clear and delete everything]. It's better than an OS upgrade!

It's best to write down your SPs and ARWLs beforehand, for easier re-entry after.

I cleared everything a month or two ago, and the interface is now as fast as it was when I first got my HR10-250, 21 months ago. I suspect defragging is needed about once a year — at least when you record and delete more than 30 hours of stuff every week, like me!

[PJO1966]

It's been said before — probably even in this very thread — yet it bears repeating:

If your HR10-250's interface has gotten so slow you can't take it anymore, then it's time to defrag your hard drive [Messages & Setup -> Restart or Reset System -> Clear and delete everything]. It's better than an OS upgrade!

It's best to write down your SPs and ARWLs beforehand, for easier re-entry after.

I cleared everything a month or two ago, and the interface is now as fast as it was when I first got my HR10-250, 21 months ago. I suspect defragging is needed about once a year — at least when you record and delete more than 30 hours of stuff every week, like me!

Just to be clear... this also deletes all your recordings. I know it's obvious since it state "everything", but I just wanted to be clear. I really should have done this when I was down to less than one page of recordings. Now I have 5+.

[whsbuss]

So how long did the defrag take? There's been reports in other threads of more than 100 hours. What I would really like to see in ANY upgrade is a Native Resolution mode. I sold my video processor because it was such a pain having to change the mode each time I changed from SD (480i) to HD (720p/1080i).

[rminsk]

It is not a "defrag", it is removing all records from the database and removing all the files from the TiVo filesystem. The TiVo file system does fragment but the video is written in vary large blocks. This means that the read/write times are longer. The TiVo filesystem is less effected by seekings. Fragmenting will have less of a performance penalty than a typical PC. What is slowing down the TiVo is the database which must be read/written between video reads and writes. Instead of removing everything just try removing thumbs ratings and clean up old season passes and wish lists.

[whsbuss]

It is not a "defrag", it is removing all records from the database and removing all the files from the TiVo filesystem. The TiVo file system does fragment but the video is written in vary large blocks. This means that the read/write times are longer. The TiVo filesystem is less effected by seekings. Fragmenting will have less of a performance penalty than a typical PC. What is slowing down the TiVo is the database which must be read/written between video reads and writes. Instead of removing everything just try removing thumbs ratings and clean up old season passes and wish lists.

So are you saying to delete season passes not being used and then doing a clear?

[richierich]

He is saying don't use the Thumbs Up Suggestions which I have never used so mine is pretty fast in comparison with others and of course delete any unused Season Passes so it doesn't have to perform any overhead on those SPs.

[whsbuss]

He is saying don't use the Thumbs Up Suggestions which I have never used so mine is pretty fast in comparison with others and of course delete any unused Season Passes so it doesn't have to perform any overhead on those SPs.

I don't use Thumbs Up/Down either. However, when you select a program to record (or those in your SP list) it does mark a thumbs up for that program.

[Syzygy]

whsbuss said:
So how long did the defrag take? There's been reports in other threads of more than 100 hours.I thought it would take only an hour or two, but I gave up watching for it to end and went to sleep. Early the next morning it was complete. So all I know is that it took more than a couple hours and less than 8 hours.

[Syzygy]

rminsk said:
It is not a "defrag", it is removing all records from the database and removing all the files from the TiVo filesystem.Well, removing all records from the database effectively defragments the database. And removing all the files is the only way to defragment the filesystem. So if I misspoke, it was not in saying "defrag", it was in not saying "double defrag".What is slowing down the TiVo is the database which must be read/written between video reads and writes. Instead of removing everything just try removing thumbs ratings and clean up old season passes and wish lists.That's a good suggestion. I tried that first, but the resulting speedup was not as much as I had hoped; it didn't restore the interface speed to what it had been when I first started using the unit.

[Syzygy]

richierich said:
He [rminsk] is saying don't use the Thumbs Up Suggestions which I have never used so mine is pretty fast in comparison with others...No, he wasn't saying anything of the sort... although that's a good idea, and I'm now refraining from using Thumbs Up as freely as I once did. (I used to mark every good movie that I had seen with a thumb even though I'd seen it elsewhere! Now I remove some of the auto-generated thumbs from shows that I recorded but didn't seem to be very good.)

Your system may still be pretty fast because you might not have used it as much. In addition, the slowness sneaks up on you gradually, so you might not realize any discomfort with the interface until it reaches your threshold of tolerance.

[rminsk]

He is saying don't use the Thumbs Up Suggestions which I have never used so mine is pretty fast in comparison with othersI was saying delete the thumbs up and down database. You can get to it from the same screen. Even if you do not use Thumbs up it still stores a thumbs up from every program you record.

[rminsk]

(Now I remove some of the auto-generated thumbs from shows that I recorded but didn't seem to be very good.)That is not the same thing as delete the thumbs database. When you set the thumbs back to 0 it still has in the database that you have zero thumbs for that program.

[DeWitt]

Clearing the thumbs DB helps a little, but clear and delete is like a magic potion of speed. Of course it is painfull as everything is lost. How long it takes seems to be dependent on how bad the data fragmentation/corruption is. I used The instant cake utility to redo my image, then C&D which took only about 1/2 hour. Machine is like new. Makes me remember how much i liked it when I first got it. Amazing how you don't notice how bad something is when it creeps up on you slowly.

I have spoken with others who have gotten the same happy results with just a strait C&D, YMMV

[rminsk]

How long it takes seems to be dependent on how bad the data fragmentation/corruption is.Again, fragmentation has little preformance impact on a TiVo and I'm not sure what you are talking about corruption. The size of the database and the more files you have on the TiVo causes it to take a long time to delete.

[DeWitt]

I have no way of knowing if it is fragmentation or corruption, but many of us have seen the drastic slow down over time, even when no programs are stored and the thumbs DB is cleared. A C&D restores the original speediness. Don't know the why's but have definitely seen the effect.

For example - Pre C&D - No programs stored, thumbs DB reset, 8 seaon passes. Scheduling a new show - about 60 second. Adding a new seaon pass, 5 minutes or more.

After C&D and restoring all of the same season passes, scheduling a show to record - seconds, adding a new season pass, 6 or 7 seconds.

[joetoronto]

I have no way of knowing if it is fragmentation or corruption, but many of us have seen the drastic slow down over time, even when no programs are stored and the thumbs DB is cleared. A C&D restores the original speediness. Don't know the why's but have definitely seen the effect.

For example - Pre C&D - No programs stored, thumbs DB reset, 8 seaon passes. Scheduling a new show - about 60 second. Adding a new seaon pass, 5 minutes or more.

After C&D and restoring all of the same season passes, scheduling a show to record - seconds, adding a new season pass, 6 or 7 seconds.

how long have you had yours, DeWitt?

i make a point of not keeping more than 24 hours of HD content on mine and i've been thinking that's why mine hasn't slowed down.

i've only had it for 2 1/2 months though.

[DeWitt]

A long time... Mine was one of the first ones. ($1,000 Ouch!)

It was over a year till I was bothered by the slowness. It has been 2 or 3 months since I reimaged it and it is still doing great.

[joetoronto]

A long time... Mine was one of the first ones. ($1,000 Ouch!)

It was over a year till I was bothered by the slowness. It has been 2 or 3 months since I reimaged it and it is still doing great.


cool, thanks for the info. ;)

[Lee L]

I know my new HR10-250 is one heck of a lot faster than my original one downstairs, but I have had the old one for abour 20 months now and it is expanded to 500 gig.

[codespy]

I usually complain to DTV once or twice a month regarding the update issue, just in case they were thinking of forgetting that people really would like it.

Instead of asking when it's going to happen, I asked 'Why did DTV decide never to upgrade the HR10-250 to the 6.2 with folders. Here is the response they gave:

Dear Codespy,

Thanks for writing. The DIRECTV HR10-250 receiver qualifies to get the 6.2 upgrade. However, the date for the upgrade is yet to be determined. Be assured, though, that it will get the software upgrade in the future.

I hope this information is helpful to you.

Thanks again for writing and stay tuned to DIRECTV.com for the latest news and information about our services.

Sincerely,

*******
DIRECTV Customer Service


Response dated 3-24-06

[richierich]

It will not happen, don't yall get it. They are just putting you off until you can swap out your unit for their new unit at a cost and an additional commitment. I predicted that we would not get this release back in October and I was right on the money.

Maybe I am psychic or I just understand the mentality of corporations because I worked for a number of them over the years. It will not happen so just understand that. They are spending all of their resources on the new DVR, PERIOD, end of story!!!

[ret2961]

MAN! I just restored an image of my HRDV2, and it just finished the 6.2 update, and DAM*IT, I forgot how much better (speed speed speed) it is. I was used to the 250 and forgot how much better it could be...

[codespy]

It will not happen, don't yall get it. They are just putting you off until you can swap out your unit for their new unit at a cost and an additional commitment. I predicted that we would not get this release back in October and I was right on the money.

But, but, they say it will. What does the word future mean? LOL

I re-phrased my question to them and edited my previous post with their response.

I agree with you it will not come, it's just interesting to see the BS statements they come up with over time.

[richierich]

They are Masters at BS!!!

[InterceptPoint]

This is probably Off-Topic for a 6.2 thread but I'm curious if there is any possibility that 6.2 (if we ever see it) just might fix the crappy 10-250 SD graphics. Probably my major dissapointment with my HD Tivo was that the menus don't display any better on my brand new 65" HP 6580n than they do on my 10 year old Mitsubishi SDTV.

[joetoronto]

This is probably Off-Topic for a 6.2 thread but I'm curious if there is any possibility that 6.2 (if we ever see it) just might fix the crappy 10-250 SD graphics. Probably my major dissapointment with my HD Tivo was that the menus don't display any better on my brand new 65" HP 6580n than they do on my 10 year old Mitsubishi SDTV.

what's wrong with the menu's?

[StEvEY5036]

what's wrong with the menu's?

Ill agree that the menus do look like crap. Not like its a HUGE deal.. but i think that if the unit is a HD unit, the menus should be designed to look as great as the programming its capable of recieving.

[joetoronto]

Ill agree that the menus do look like crap. Not like its a HUGE deal.. but i think that if the unit is a HD unit, the menus should be designed to look as great as the programming its capable of recieving.

hey, whatever floats your boat i guess.

me, i have bigger fish to fry, much bigger.

[InterceptPoint]

what's wrong with the menu's?

Low resolution text.

It seems clear to me that the 10-250 is not generating text for the menu system at either 720p or 1080i resolution. It just isn't crisp like HD text can be. That is not a hardware limitation or shouldn't be. The text generation in my 10-250 is running from the same hardware/software engine as my SD Tivo and is not nearly as good as I have seen on other non-Tivo HD receivers.

[diagoro]

The menu quality was always a minor issue for me. It became much more obvious after hooking up a XBOX 360 and seeing how sharp and fine the menu graphics were for the gaming system.......

[diagoro]

So you're planning on recording all 64 games in HD? That's got to be some MAJOR drive space......You might want to allow for some extra recording time since ESPN had a very bad record with the Baseball Classic. Some games were broadcast up to two or three hours after the program grid stated the start time......and even than the game was cut short and only portions show due to 'time constraints'.

[InterceptPoint]

hey, whatever floats your boat i guess.

me, i have bigger fish to fry, much bigger.

And those fish are ... ?

[joetoronto]

And those fish are ... ?


lol, there's not enough bandwidth here.

[clorox]

And those fish are ... ?

Um, folders, speed, etc., etc., etc.

[InterceptPoint]

lol, there's not enough bandwidth here.

You guys are pretty picky. I'm actually quite happy with my 10-250. Channel switching speed could be better but it seems adequate to me. My only real complaint is the graphics.

OTOH, MPEG-4 will eventually arrive and then we'll all have a new dog to kick. To dream.

[sdchrgrboy]

You guys are pretty picky. I'm actually quite happy with my 10-250. Channel switching speed could be better but it seems adequate to me. My only real complaint is the graphics.

OTOH, MPEG-4 will eventually arrive and then we'll all have a new dog to kick. To dream.
And your not picky? Who gives a rats a#$ about the graphics. Does that really make a difference? Are you watching the graphics? I didn't think so. It could really use folders.

[codespy]

And your not picky? Who gives a rats a#$ about the graphics. Does that really make a difference? Are you watching the graphics? I didn't think so. It could really use folders.

Sorry interceptpoint, I have to agree with this one. I like the channel banner to disappear quickly when surfing. Also, not only folders but the speed factor once recordings and season passes get built up on the unit over time.

In other news, when I had coffee with Rupert today, he was under the impression that the 6.2 would, at the earliest, roll out by mid 2006. They have been spending most of their time working out the bugs on the current R15 and the soon to come HR20-250. I told him I've been holding my breath for 4 months now and won't be able to for much longer. He did not seem to give a rats a#$. :D

[joetoronto]

You guys are pretty picky. I'm actually quite happy with my 10-250. Channel switching speed could be better but it seems adequate to me. My only real complaint is the graphics.

OTOH, MPEG-4 will eventually arrive and then we'll all have a new dog to kick. To dream.


i was talking about life outside of TV.

[MarcusInMD]

Sorry interceptpoint, I have to agree with this one. I like the channel banner to disappear quickly when surfing. Also, not only folders but the speed factor once recordings and season passes get built up on the unit over time.

In other news, when I had coffee with Rupert today, he was under the impression that the 6.2 would, at the earliest, roll out by mid 2006. They have been spending most of their time working out the bugs on the current R15 and the soon to come HR20-250. I told him I've been holding my breath for 4 months now and won't be able to for much longer. He did not seem to give a rats a#$. :D

You serious, Clark? ;)

[jschmidt]

The D* reps may be told to tell us all to expect the update, but will release the new DVR instead. The mgmt probably knows that once the "new thing" comes out, no one will care about an update to the old thing. Nevermind the fact that we all love TiVo DVR OS and will probably not like the new DVR system as well. However, maybe we are in the minority.

Speaking of the new DVR, has anyone heard anything new about the new HD DVR? What about the Home Media Center? I haven't seen anything new on that in months.

[MichaelK]

the original shippiong version on the hr20-250 might just be 6.2 ...

[jcricket]

the original shippiong version on the hr20-250 might just be 6.2 ...
I'm not sure this sentence makes any sense. The HR20 is not built on the "Tivo" software platform. Instead it has a different software platform, built by NDS (owned by NewsCorp, who also owns DirecTV). Therefore there's no chance that the HR20 would ship with the 6.2 version of the Tivo software.

Unless, of course, Michael was making a joke that NDS would just change their versioning system to start up where Tivo left off.

[MichaelK]

I'm not sure this sentence makes any sense. The HR20 is not built on the "Tivo" software platform. Instead it has a different software platform, built by NDS (owned by NewsCorp, who also owns DirecTV). Therefore there's no chance that the HR20 would ship with the 6.2 version of the Tivo software.

Unless, of course, Michael was making a joke that NDS would just change their versioning system to start up where Tivo left off.

yep-

a joke that NDS will just start with vesion 6.2 so all the CSR's can say "see 6.2 on the HD Directv DVR...."

[wmcbrine]

This is probably Off-Topic for a 6.2 thread but I'm curious if there is any possibility that 6.2 (if we ever see it) just might fix the crappy 10-250 SD graphics.
Screen shots from the Series 3 show no change, so there's no way 6.2 will bring it.

[JaserLet]

What ever happened to the petition? Did anyone at DirecTV get a chance to look at it? Is it stuck somewhere in a mailroom?

[richierich]

6.2 will never happen for the HR10-250 so get used to it and accept it and move on.

[jschmidt]

I think many of us are still in the denial or bargaining phases of grief. Some are even stuck in the anger phase. The fact that you have moved on to acceptance is wonderful and we are all proud of your ability to move on. However, for those of us that are not quite there yet, here is a handy guide to the phases of grief over the loss of 6.2 on the HR10-250...

Shock is the first stage. It is accompanied by disbelief and numbness. "WHAT JUST HAPPENED? You mean I can't get folders on my brand new HR10-250?"

Denial follows quickly, crying "I don't believe it," or "It can't be. DirecTV said that we were getting 6.2, so we MUST be getting it... it's just taking them a while. I even just received an e-mail from a CSR rep who told me that he/she KNOWS it's in the works."

Bargaining is your promise that "I'll be so very good that maybe I can wake up and find that it isn't so. As long as I'm one of D*'s most faithful, profitable customers, they will take care of us, right?"

Guilt is painful and hard to deal with. This is when one says over and over, "If only I had purchased a DVR from another provider, then I wouldn't be in this mess. Boy did I misjudge the market! Perhaps if I had signed just ONE MORE petition, we would have made D* see the light."

Anger is another big factor which seems to be necessary in order to face the reality of life and then to get beyond it. We must all heal in our own ways. Anger is a natural stage through which we must pass. Your anger over the fact that D* has moved on and will now be supplying their own proprietary DVR platform (NDS) instead of using the beloved TiVo. How DARE they! We have been the most loyal customers and this is how they repay us? We spent $1000 on this piece of equipment and they have abandoned us! F**K THEM!

Depression is a stage of grief that comes and goes. Knowing this, be prepared to give yourself time to heal. Resignation is a late stage. It comes when finally you accept the truth. D* doesn't give a crap about TiVo any longer. It's not profitable any longer since it would take away resources from their new ventures. Sadly, for those of us without other viable, quality service alternatives will soon be without TiVo. Although we don't know for sure, we are PRETTY CERTAIN that the NDS system will suck. (sigh) Trying to envision life without TiVo is like trying to envision life without air.

Acceptance. We are not in control of our destiny. We can only choose from the viable options that the market provides to us. We must give ourselves over to the higher power (D*, Comcast, whatever) and hope/trust that everything will turn out okay in the end.

Hopefully, with this guide now available to the public via the voice this forum provides, we can ALL let the healing begin. So, please, let's all support each other.

BTW, I am available as a sponsor if anyone needs some personal support.

[sirfergy]

Great post. :)

[bigrig]

Denial forever!! We're gonna get that 6.2!!!!

:cool:

[richierich]

The FINAL PHASE is called recognition of reality. Seeing and knowing what really goes on in the business world can help you understand why 6.2 will never come to the HR10-250 because D* does not want to enhance our unit but would prefer all of us to switch to their new DVR (that will never happen). I am happy with my 2 HR10-250s both having 2 300 gig hard drives and OTA HD stations so I can record anything I want without having to buy their new DVR with a two year commitment as I will continue to get CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX, UPN, PBS etc. FREE in HD when available. Thank God I don't have to get their new DVR to get HD locals in MPEG-4. Also, I am happy that I just got TNT HD.

[drewcipher]

Ok, in principle I see why people don't like the 2 year comittment, but in reality, how long have you had D*? I have had it for many years, and until someone else has NFL Sunday ticket or my Tivo stop working I don't much care. I think people just like to have something to complain about.
My HR10s have all slowed down a little bit, but nothing takes more than 1 minute. I dont know if I am lucky or people are exaggerating the problem. The only thing I care about is folders, and that isn't enough to really piss me off. Am I disappointed in D*? Yes, very much so. Have they lost me as a customer? Not yet, and they are more likely to lose me as a result of their NFL superfan ripoff than anything else.

[Runch Machine]

I agree completely with richierich . While it would be nice to get 6.2, HD Tivo does what I want it to do. I've set it up with the season passes I want and when I press List, it has all the shows I want to see. I use it to watch TV, not play with the interface. I get my local channels over the air, which is where 99 percent of what I watch comes from. I expect I will be using this for the next few years and be very happy with it.

[joetoronto]

count me in too. i'm so happy, i'm still buying more of them. :D

[bidger]

For the most part I'm happy with the HR10-250. It's my TiVo that gets the most use, I have them pretty much ranked in priority in my sig. I could be fully satisfied if I'd gone straight from my S1 D-TiVos to the HR10-250, but the DVR-80 was something I used in between and I saw the changes that 6.2 brought, especially in how much faster functions were carried out. I just see no good reason why that same speed shouldn't be available on all S2 D-TiVo units.

[Runch Machine]

For the most part I'm happy with the HR10-250. It's my TiVo that gets the most use, I have them pretty much ranked in priority in my sig. I could be fully satisfied if I'd gone straight from my S1 D-TiVos to the HR10-250, but the DVR-80 was something I used in between and I saw the changes that 6.2 brought, especially in how much faster functions were carried out. I just see no good reason why that same speed shouldn't be available on all S2 D-TiVo units.

You are right, it would be great to have the faster functions and benefits that 6.2 brings on HD TIvo. If Directv cared about our satisfaction, they would put it out. I don't think they do, so they won't. They had the best DVR platform available and they walked away from it. I've been with Directv since 1997. Sooner than later, I will walk away from Directv.

[JRAllas]

CrazyFred, ,

From what Ive read on various forums its believed that D* has the Update for the HR10-250 ready to go but they are waiting out the SD update.

Is this true CrazyFred ??? If so are they still planning to send the update soon ???

Any Information will be Greatly Appreciated

Thank You.
This is obviously a very popular thread to have lasted since May '05. I just purchased my HR10-250 recently and had the new 3LNB dish installed in place of my 2LNB dish on 3/25/06. I immediately noticed the Tivo software was an old version and awaited it to be updated like the DVR40 I already have. Now I find it won't be updated. I've got to tell you, though. The few features the upgrade gave me do not make my new HR10-250 unusable. As another person said, I use my DVR to watch TV, not to play with the interface. The first day I upgraded to HD, I manually entererd all my Wish Lists and Season Passes I already had on my DVR40. It took a while, but within a few days everything was chugging along nicely. The wife and I have almost 30 season passes and I never witnessed a wait of more than 30 seconds after changing or adding a recording. Maybe it will get slower with time, but for now its good. As long as DirecTV sends me a signal my HR10-250 can record, I'll be happy. If they expect me to chuck the DVR I just paid $499 for in favor of their new non-Tivo unit, they're sadly mistaken. Hopefully, they'll take care of all us Tivo dedicated customers and not pi$$ us all off.

[MiamiTV]

6.2 is ALIVE! One of my friends TiVo's just got it, folders and all. I want mine!, I'm having it make calls every :30 min. to see if I can catch it.

[rminsk]

6.2 is ALIVE! One of my friends TiVo's just got it, folders and all. I want mine!, I'm having it make calls every :30 min. to see if I can catch it.Does your friend have a HR10-250? 6.2 is still "alive" as you put it for the other series 2 DirecTiVo but not for the HR10-250. Trust me if it was alive for the HR10-250 there would be much more chatter on this board.

[Scott D]

Awwww. He's just trying to excite everyone. If it is coming out at all, it's not here yet. And besides, would you be asking your machine to check for updates every 30 minutes? Maybe once every other day or so.

[richierich]

Obviously with only 19 posts he is a troll just lurking around to stir up trouble.

[JaserLet]

I still have hope.

Hell, now that Apple is shipping computers with Intel chips that can run Windows (http://www.apple.com/macosx/bootcamp/) I think **ANYTHING** is possible. hehehe!

[txfeinbergs]

Obviously with only 19 posts he is a troll just lurking around to stir up trouble.

I have to truly wonder what sort of joy these guys get out of trolling. Do they sit back and quietly watch to see what they have accomplished. (In this case, not a heck of a lot I would hazard to guess - most of us know better here).

[looknow12]

I'm not pointing fingers and quite frankly I could care less who's to blame for this slap in the face from DTV or Tivo. Not getting this update is a travesty for those who spent all this money on their HR10-250's.

The moment I can jump to another technology, I'm there. I'm ditching this box in a hurry.

[bigrig]

I have to truly wonder what sort of joy these guys get out of trolling. Do they sit back and quietly watch to see what they have accomplished. (In this case, not a heck of a lot I would hazard to guess - most of us know better here).
I think if you look at all 19 of his posts you'll see he's not a troll. Just maybe not up-to-speed on the differences between the HD Tivo and the other DirecTivos.

Matt

[richierich]

You can't blame Tivo for this screwup. If D* wanted us to have it, they would have forced Tivo to have the code in place long ago. I was a computer programmer and it is not that difficult after having the code for the other platforms to incorporate most of that code for the HR10-250. It would not be a complete rewrite.

However, as I have said many times before most all business decisions are made on the basis of money, either in the short run or the long run vision for the company. If they are coming out with their own DVR which will compete with the HR10-250, it would be in their best interests not to make the HR10-250 any more desirable than it already is or in fact have it less desirable because of problems so you would want to switch to the new DVR, sign another 1 or 2 year commitment and then pay the cost for the HD Locals. This is what they want so they can expand their customer base and have complete control of their product and it's destiny. They will no longer have to go to Tivo to get things done such as new software updates because they can now have more control of that aspect. 6.2 will NEVER happen for the HR10-250 because of these reasons and others that I am not even aware of, if so it would have happened 6 months ago. They are just stalling until their new DVR comes out and then they will be glad to tell you to that they will switch you over to a brand new Tivo-like DVR with better functionality (LOL) for a small fee, a new comittment and a certain level of their packages such as Total Choice or whatever. This is all being run by the Marketing Department for sure. Get over it and move on!!!

[drewcipher]

You can't blame Tivo for this screwup. If D* wanted us to have it, they would have forced Tivo to have the code in place long ago. I was a computer programmer and it is not that difficult after having the code for the other platforms to incorporate most of that code for the HR10-250. It would not be a complete rewrite.

However, as I have said many times before most all business decisions are made on the basis of money, either in the short run or the long run vision for the company. If they are coming out with their own DVR which will compete with the HR10-250, it would be in their best interests not to make the HR10-250 any more desirable than it already is or in fact have it less desirable because of problems so you would want to switch to the new DVR, sign another 1 or 2 year commitment and then pay the cost for the HD Locals. This is what they want so they can expand their customer base and have complete control of their product and it's destiny. They will no longer have to go to Tivo to get things done such as new software updates because they can now have more control of that aspect. 6.2 will NEVER happen for the HR10-250 because of these reasons and others that I am not even aware of, if so it would have happened 6 months ago. They are just stalling until their new DVR comes out and then they will be glad to tell you to that they will switch you over to a brand new Tivo-like DVR with better functionality (LOL) for a small fee, a new comittment and a certain level of their packages such as Total Choice or whatever. This is all being run by the Marketing Department for sure. Get over it and move on!!!

IF this is about money their marketing department is screwed up, because they are going to lose customers over this. There is no competition here between Tivo and D*. If you want to get HD you will have to ditch your Tivo box in a couple years anyway. In the meantime, if the software worked, it would cost them little to send it out compared to them losing their high end customers. Most people get their stuff from D* when they sign up. Once the D* HD box is ready they will not be sending out Tivo. Tivo is gone from the D* world, it just doesn't know it yet. You can't compete with dead.

Of course it would not be a complete rewrite, but they might have made it a low priority to work on given that it doesn't seem like their HD box is coming out on time(I can't find a hint of it actually working) and they want to focus on that.

Do we know that D* has the source? D* may not have the legal right to alter the source. It could be Tivo that is dragging their feet. I have no idea. All I know is that D* made their own because they felt Tivo charged too much, and I hate to say this, but it seems that the other providers think so too. If Tivo is reduced to standalone boxes, unfortunately they will not last anyway. That will be a sad, sad day.

[richierich]

Tivo is under contract to write the source code and it has already been done for the other non HD devices. All they would have to do is pay Tivo to extend the 6.2 for the HR10-250 which wouldn't take more than 3 or 4 months to complete. It has been alot more time than that when they said it would come out for the HR10-250 shortly after the SD DVRs had been completed. Well that was a long time ago and we are not seeing it. So much for D* and their BS, it is just a stall game or they would give us a tentative date. That is the key, there is no tentative date and there will never be one.

Most customers have so much money tied up with D* that they wouldn't dare leave because of having to remove everything and start over with someone else, the expense alone would keep me from doing it. So I am stuck with D*. However, my 2 HR10-250s will be able to record HD content via my OTA antenna for a long time so why would I want to give them up or trade them. I don't pay for the OTA, it's free.

The only reason I would buy their new DVR is to enhance my system and give me backup but not if I have to pay D* alot for their new DVR, then have to sign up for a new 2 year committment (which is what is rumored to be) and then have to pay for the HD Locals.

I can understand a guy in Podunk, North Dakota having to do this if he can't get HD locals via OTA such as I can but for me I will enjoy my 2 HR10-250s for years to come and I may buy another one very soon for my upstairs bedroom.

[Lee L]

Tivo is under contract to write the source code and it has already been done for the other non HD devices. All they would have to do is pay Tivo to extend the 6.2 for the HR10-250 which wouldn't take more than 3 or 4 months to complete. It has been alot more time than that when they said it would come out for the HR10-250 shortly after the SD DVRs had been completed. Well that was a long time ago and we are not seeing it. So much for D* and their BS, it is just a stall game or they would give us a tentative date. That is the key, there is no tentative date and there will never be one.



THe worst part is that the SW is done and was demonstrated on an HR10-250 at CES in Feb of 2005. For some reason, they never decided to release it. There are rumors that there were still lost of bugs to get worked out, of course the theory that they intentionally are no releasing it so their DVR looks better, etc. Only DirecTv knows for sure.

But, like you I am planning on using my 10-250s for a while now and will just deal with the slow menus.

[drewcipher]

I still don't understand the worry about 2 year comittment. You just said you are tied up and won't leave them, so who cares? Is it principle? Also, I haven't read their contract, have you? We all know lawyers can find loopholes. Their may no longer be any obligation for Tivo to do anything for D*

[jschmidt]

All I know is that D* made their own because they felt Tivo charged too much, and I hate to say this, but it seems that the other providers think so too. If Tivo is reduced to standalone boxes, unfortunately they will not last anyway. That will be a sad, sad day.

Unless, of course, TiVo wins their suit against Echostar (is that the Defendant?). If they win, they will receive licensing fees from everyone who makes a DVR. That will really level the playing field. It might not be cheaper for providers to develop their own technology any longer and paying a license to TiVo for their software might be more ecconomical than licensing from others such as NDS.

It will be interesting...

[bidger]

Unless, of course, TiVo wins their suit against Echostar (is that the Defendant?). If they win, they will receive licensing fees from everyone who makes a DVR.
So you're certain that Echostar can't/won't appeal a decision in TiVo's favor?

[jschmidt]

So you're certain that Echostar can't/won't appeal a decision in TiVo's favor?

Picky, picky, picky. Everyone on this board is so literal! :) Of course Echostar would appeal any such decision. But, a win is still a win. It would set the stage for a new infusion of cash for TiVo including fees from patent infringement as well as new license deals with other companies, which are not currently found to be infinging. TiVo would definitely have new leverage to use in any negotiations.

[richierich]

What I was trying to say was that it doesn't mean anything to me but to those who can't access HD locals via OTA then it is important to them.

[ElectricPickle]

TiVo and DirecTV extend contract
By Marguerite Reardon
http://news.com.com/TiVo+and+DirecTV+extend+contract/2100-1038_3-6060475.html

Story last modified Wed Apr 12 11:56:44 PDT 2006
TiVo and DirecTV said Wednesday that they will extend their commercial agreement for three years.
The agreement will allow existing DirecTV customers using the TiVo digital video recorder to continue to receive maintenance and support from DirecTV. As part of the agreement, TiVo and DirecTV also said they wouldn't sue each other over patent rights.
TiVo, which introduced DVRs to the market, has been struggling to turn a profit. The company's 4.4 million subscribers have mostly come from its deal with DirecTV. Last year, DirecTV said it would stop marketing and selling TiVo's digital recorders to its satellite TV subscribers starting in 2007. Instead DirecTV is developing a device with NDS Group.
Since then, TiVo has been scrambling to differentiate its product and strike other distribution deals. Last year, it announced it was working with Comcast, and a new TiVo product is due later this year for Comcast subscribers.
Murray Arenson, an analyst at Ferris Baker Watts, cautioned that the DirecTV contract extension doesn't indicate that the satellite TV provider has changed its mind about the value of TiVo's product. Instead, it's an admission by DirecTV that it needs more time to transition its customers beyond the 2007 cutoff date, he said.
Ultimately, TiVo will likely end up in a worse position from this deal, since it now seems unlikely that DirecTV will license intellectual property from TiVo, he said.

"The extension of the deal doesn't bode well for TiVo," Arenson said. "For the next three years, all TiVo gets is a dwindling customer base from DirecTV. And the company has put to rest any possibility of getting licensing fees for its technology from DirecTV."
TiVo is currently suing satellite TV provider EchoStar Communications for allegedly infringing on a patent that defines how digital video recorders work. A TiVo victory in the EchoStar patent case could pave the way for the company to extract royalties from other DVR makers. But because the company is already working with Comcast and has now agreed not to sue DirecTV, TiVo may have fewer options for potential licensees.
"If TiVo wins the EchoStar case, all of sudden they could have this massive addressable market for licensing their technology," Arenson said. "But at the same time they are pairing down that potential market."

Copyright ©1995-2006 CNET Networks, Inc. All rights reserved

[kkluba]

TiVo and DirecTV extend contract
By Marguerite Reardon
http://news.com.com/TiVo+and+DirecTV+extend+contract/2100-1038_3-6060475.html


So does this bring any hope of the 6.2 update? Gotta have your dreams :rolleyes:

[newsposter]

just activated another hdtivo last night. It apparently already had F software on it. The dial in was less than 4 min. so i doubt it updated during that time. Is that a pretty good assurance this is a newer unit? any ideas when they started shipping F software out?

[MichaelK]

So does this bring any hope of the 6.2 update? Gotta have your dreams :rolleyes:


fat chance still.


...although Dan collins is saying the HR20 is looking like 2007 at this point.....

[MikeE.]

any ideas when they started shipping F software out?

About 12 or 13 months ago? Seems like I've had 3.1.5f for about that long.

[DVRaholic]

fat chance still.


...although Dan collins is saying the HR20 is looking like 2007 at this point.....

He says it here....

http://www.dbsforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=4522678#post4522678

Hes also saying that with the Tivo extension we now "might" get 6.2 !!!!

http://www.dbsforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=4523281#post4523281

[drew2k]

If a new version came to the HR10-250 with the features in 6.2, wouldn't the HD version have to be slightly different? Unless I'm mistaken, only the HR10-250 has the Closed Caption and Aspect Setting options on the Video menu. Could this have been a reason the rollout of 6.2 was not sent to the HD-TiVos?

I can only hope that if we get an upgrade there is an easier way to turn CC on and off on the HR10-250 ... the current method of drilling down through menus blows! (How would I implement it? Make it an option on the Info menu, just like there are currently options for Parental Controls, Messages, Audio, etc.)

[sdchrgrboy]

If a new version came to the HR10-250 with the features in 6.2, wouldn't the HD version have to be slightly different? Unless I'm mistaken, only the HR10-250 has the Closed Caption and Aspect Setting options on the Video menu. Could this have been a reason the rollout of 6.2 was not sent to the HD-TiVos?

I can only hope that if we get an upgrade there is an easier way to turn CC on and off on the HR10-250 ... the current method of drilling down through menus blows! (How would I implement it? Make it an option on the Info menu, just like there are currently options for Parental Controls, Messages, Audio, etc.)
Who even uses closed captioning? Less than !% of D* Tivo users?

[drew2k]

Who even uses closed captioning? Less than !% of D* Tivo users?Umm, I do. Duh. Hence my post about it. :rolleyes:

You should search for some of the threads in the HD forum about the inadequacies of the CC feature on the HR10-250, and you'd be surprised at how many other people here use it.

[Arcady]

I thought most people who used CC used the decoder built into most modern TV sets. I wasn't aware that satellite receivers or Tivos even had that capability. Can't you use the CC in your TV easier than the one in Tivo?

As a side note, if my HD tivo updates to 6.2, I will order another one the next day. I can't be the only one that is waiting for this upgrade to buy more units.

[drew2k]

Most TV's can use the native CC mode to display CC, but that doesn't work with the HR10-250, as the CC info is not passed to the TV. This is why TiVo built it into the HR10-250. For a similar reason, DirecTV also built CC capability into their H10 (H20?) HiDef (non-DVR) receiver - I think it has something to do with the signal type. Hopefully someone can come along and explain this better.

Anyone wanting to use CC on the HR10-250 has to pause their show and then go through several sub-menus to turn it on or off, which is really cumbersome. The alternative is to change the output resolution to 480i and then the TV can decode the CC, but when you're watching a Hi-Def program, that kind of defeats the purpose!

Hopefully you can see that CC on the HR10-250 is not handled well, and why I would hope that any form of 6.2 coming this way would make CC easier.

[Arcady]

Well, I don't use CC, but I have no objection making it easier to use. Perhaps they could even just have a discreet code for it that could be used with a universal remote.

I guess the CC stuff is not included in component or HDMI when in HD mode? You'd think that CC would be part of the spec for those modes. Since my projector doesn't even have CC, I'd never have known about this limitation, even if I used CC. In fact, all of my sets do not have built-in CC decoders. I don't own an actual TV set, just a bunch of monitors.

[boku68]

I can only hope that if we get an upgrade there is an easier way to turn CC on and off on the HR10-250 ... the current method of drilling down through menus blows! (How would I implement it? Make it an option on the Info menu, just like there are currently options for Parental Controls, Messages, Audio, etc.)

Glad to hear someone else complaining about this. They couldn't have buried this feature any deeper. I think my old Zenith DTV1080 had a CC button on the remote. When I forget to disable it, my wife will call me at work so I can walk her through all of the screens to turn it off because she can never remember where it is hidden.

[newsposter]

About 12 or 13 months ago? Seems like I've had 3.1.5f for about that long.

Oh so it's really an old machine :) I guess what i meant to ask...were any HDtivos sent out factory with F on them?



I can only hope that if we get an upgrade there is an easier way to turn CC on and off on the HR10-250 ...

funny you mention CC..the other day i was piping a picture to my dvd burner and the CC was working. Is that because it was in 480i?

edit oops, should read whole thread first

[bigrig]

Hes also saying that with the Tivo extension we now "might" get 6.2 !!!!

http://www.dbsforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=4523281#post4523281
Sweeet! My hope has been restored!!! ;)

I'm being told that one of the likely outcomes of the new agreement will be a version of 6.2 for the HR-10s.
__________________
Dan Collins
DBSForums Administrator

[phox_mulder]

I think it has something to do with the signal type. Hopefully someone can come along and explain this better.
The alternative is to change the output resolution to 480i and then the TV can decode the CC, but when you're watching a Hi-Def program, that kind of defeats the purpose!

Yes, Digital CC is different the the old Analag CC we are used to.

Analong is sent in one of the picture lines, line 21 to be exact, not shown on properly working TV's, Closed Captioning decoders can decode the signal on this line.
(If your TV is not working right, you might be able to see a line right above the picture that looks like morse code, a white flashing line moving across the screen, this is the closed captioning among other things)

Digital being well, Digital, sends it as part of the transmission, since there is 1080i or 780p for programming then 480i for commercials, switching back and forth, the current closed captioning decoders wouldn't be able to do it all, so they had to come up with a new "better" way.

This is so new (took the government a while to agree on a standard) that many stations aren't even using the Digital CC yet, still relying on the analog CC and just inserting it into the digital signal.

I'm actually surprised that the HR10-250 has the different options.


phox

[drew2k]

Thanks for explaining it phox. I just knew someone would wander along soon enough to fill in the blanks! :)

[mikeb33]

Does anybody know if when there is a major update like this, do they add remote codes to the list. I am sick of using 2 remotes for my Maxent 26" LCD

[bigrig]

A software update to the box will not affect the codes built into the remote.

[pendragn]

A software update to the box will not affect the codes built into the remote.
Right, it will only affect the codes the TiVo shows. If you want a TiVo remote with new codes buy one at tivo.com. I know the one I bought there handles my TV differently than the one that came with my HR10-250.

tk

[Mark Lopez]

Does anybody know if when there is a major update like this, do they add remote codes to the list. I am sick of using 2 remotes for my Maxent 26" LCD

With all of the great universal remotes out there (i.e. MX-500 etc), why not just get one of those and be done with it? Personally I would not want to use the TiVo remote to control other things.

[mikeb33]

The Maxent TV I speak of is in my office and there is no other gear to control, so a Harmony remote seems a bit excessive.
If I bought a new tivo remote that had the codes in it, but the software in my tivo didn't update the code numbers, how would I know which to use?

[richierich]

I'm still betting that we will not get the 6.2 upgrade because D* does not want to spend any more resources on this box to make it look any better when it will be competing with their new DVR coming out in 2007 (which is what I predicted a year ago). When developing new technology and code, the senior managers never take into consideration all of the contingencies that we have to think about and deal with in the programming phase of the product. So the amount of development and testing is greatly underestimated and always causes an unrealistic launch date which keeps getting pushed back to where it should have been in the first place.

I'm saying it ain't going to happen but I sure as Hell wish it would.

[drewcipher]

It isn't competing though. It is replacing. I will not buy a new HR10 at this point knowing that it could be replaced in 2 or 3 years. The timeframe that Tivo will be supported by D* is not endless. Once they release their HR20, I would think they would not activate new Tivo subscribers. They can offer Tivo users a free swap for a limited time and then say it will cost. This will get a number of users to switch right away. Then just stop providing Tivo service and there is no competition.

[Gotchaa]

I'm still betting that we will not get the 6.2 upgrade because D* does not want to spend any more resources on this box to make it look any better when it will be competing with their new DVR coming out in 2007 (which is what I predicted a year ago). When developing new technology and code, the senior managers never take into consideration all of the contingencies that we have to think about and deal with in the programming phase of the product. So the amount of development and testing is greatly underestimated and always causes an unrealistic launch date which keeps getting pushed back to where it should have been in the first place.

I'm saying it ain't going to happen but I sure as Hell wish it would.


Well seeing how TiVo won the first round of their patent suit against EchoStar, and that they are encouraging other companies to license their technology or parts of it or face similar action, who knows what D*'s agreement to support TiVo for 3 more years entails. It is possible that TiVo agreed not to sue D* for their HD DVR technology provided they roll out and support updates to the HR10-250 and other models...it would be a good strategy, but who knows, let's just hope it's coming.

[tase2]

Well seeing how TiVo won the first round of their patent suit against EchoStar, and that they are encouraging other companies to license their technology or parts of it or face similar action, who knows what D*'s agreement to support TiVo for 3 more years entails. It is possible that TiVo agreed not to sue D* for their HD DVR technology provided they roll out and support updates to the HR10-250 and other models...it would be a good strategy, but who knows, let's just hope it's coming.
That sounds like a dream, but hey there is nothing wrong with dreaming :up:

[richierich]

Just because Tivo doesn't sign a deal with D* doesn't mean that the HR10-250 will not function anymore. It just won't get any future updates. It will still function for years and years to come. I will not swap any of my 3 HR10-250s out for the HR20 until I have seen that it is relatively bug free and works as advertised (I'll believe it when I and many others have seen it in action for a period of time). Then I will get a nice discount on the new DVR so how can you lose?

[drewcipher]

Without a deal D* could turn off your Tivo function if they so choose. I do not want to change, but they could make it highly unplesant to stay with the Tivo box. They could raise the price for Tivo, they can turn it off, they can make a sweetheart deal for a limited time to get a discount on the new box and then say sorry you need to pay full price for the HR20.

I am not saying they will, just they have options to get most of us off Tivo in the next 2-3 years. This to me negates the competition argument as long term, Tivo will be eliminated from D*(unless they suddenly kiss and make up)

[Guindalf]

Without a deal D* could turn off your Tivo function if they so choose. I do not want to change, but they could make it highly unplesant to stay with the Tivo box. They could raise the price for Tivo, they can turn it off, they can make a sweetheart deal for a limited time to get a discount on the new box and then say sorry you need to pay full price for the HR20.

I am not saying they will, just they have options to get most of us off Tivo in the next 2-3 years. This to me negates the competition argument as long term, Tivo will be eliminated from D*(unless they suddenly kiss and make up)

What D* could or could not do is irrelevant. There is no reason to believe that they will do anything to stop you using your TiVo for years to come. There are many people on this forum still using their Ultimate TV boxes quite happily.

However, you may want to change your box for newer technologies like MPEG-4 local channels or interactive features not available with the TiVo-based box. Especially once D* iron out some of the bugs in their NDS-based DVRs (which they almost certainly need to do before releasing the HD version!).

[MarcusInMD]

The HR10-250 will be usless as will any other older receivers once DirecTV switches everything and mean EVERYTHING over to MPEG4. It's going to happen. MPEG2 streams won't be up there for ever. Now, given DirecTV's track record on moving forward with new technologies this may not happen for quite a while but once it does the HR10 will be a door stop.

[newsposter]

The HR10-250 will be usless as will any other older receivers once DirecTV switches everything and mean EVERYTHING over to MPEG4. It's going to happen. MPEG2 streams won't be up there for ever. Now, given DirecTV's track record on moving forward with new technologies this may not happen for quite a while but once it does the HR10 will be a door stop.

well i would hope they wouldnt mind letting me pay the 5 dollar mirroring fee for just my OTA recordings. I'd think they would actually be making out $$$ by letting people like me do so for $5 a month.

Is guide data in proprietary mpeg2 format? in other words, when they turn off mpe2 100%, is that a reason to not be able to get the guide data for just OTA?

[Guindalf]

I think the chances of D* going totally MPEG-4 BEFORE my HR10 dies are extremely remote!

[TyroneShoes]

...Is guide data in proprietary mpeg2 format? in other words, when they turn off mpe2 100%, is that a reason to not be able to get the guide data for just OTA?
The guide data is not video, and therefore does not need MPEG-2 compression, which is just for the actual media content. The Tivo takes that data and displays it as a video guide simply for convenience. "Turning off MPEG-2" is not like flipping a big switch, it involves upgrading each channel individually to a new encoder and routing its path to a Ka uplink, so it is more a long, gradual process or a set of many similar technical processes rather than a one-time event, which means they can do that channel by channel.

well i would hope they wouldnt mind letting me pay the 5 dollar mirroring fee for just my OTA recordings. I'd think they would actually be making out $$$ by letting people like me do so for $5 a month...I agree. People usually take the path of least resistance. DTV has the option of selling you basic service plus an extra 5-6 bucks for HD locals, or basic service and an extra 5-6 bucks for you to record them OTA yourself. That's win-win for them and for us. Their only other viable option is to cripple the HR10 for OTA, which would just piss off anyone who owned one and force them to cable, so I don't see them being that brainless.

It's important to know when to use the carrot and when to use the stick when motivating your customer base. Usually the carrot works best. They would really have to think putting that $1.25 a month that goes to Tivo up against the $40-100 bucks a month they get from a customer would have to be worth the risk to force us to abandon a PVR we love in favor of their baby. They'd have to be certifiably insane to think that risk is worth it.

[newsposter]

in other words, there's no technological reason for dtv to turn off the OTA guide and allow us to record on a 5 dollar mirrored receiver :)

[MarcusInMD]

I don't think that not turning off the guide or even allowing us to record OTA HD signals is a big deal. If it does not record all of the HDTV stuff up there its a door stop to me and probably to most other HDTV users.

[Gotchaa]

The OTA tuner in the HR10 sucks anyhow, the Mpeg4 receiver I have get's all the OTA channels with no problems, HR10 drops (this is in Los Angeles and I've been through 4 OTA antenna's).

[Arcady]

Um, you have an MPEG4 OTA receiver? Uh... huh?

[joetoronto]

Um, you have an MPEG4 OTA receiver? Uh... huh?

well....if he did, it would suck. :D

[AbMagFab]

Okay folks, we're never getting 6.x/7.x on the HR10. Can this thread be left to die already?

[Lee L]

The OTA tuner in the HR10 sucks anyhow, the Mpeg4 receiver I have get's all the OTA channels with no problems, HR10 drops (this is in Los Angeles and I've been through 4 OTA antenna's).


Actually, the tuner tends to choke on signals that are too powerful. Lots of people have taken boosters out of their setup or installed attenuators and gotten much better reception. It also is not the best with multipath.

[bigrig]

Okay folks, we're never getting 6.x/7.x on the HR10. Can this thread be left to die already?
Do you have any sources with DirecTV that are supporting this opinion?

Here's what I'm looking at:
I'm being told that one of the likely outcomes of the new agreement will be a version of 6.2 for the HR-10s.
__________________
Dan Collins
DBSForums Administrator

[Lee L]

I will say, I am a littel more optimistic. Whereas before, I would say I was 99.99999999% sure we would never see it. I am probably 90% only because Dan has good connections with DirecTV going back a long time and would not say it if he did not have some trust in his source. Also, Earl here (Ebonovich) is hearing the same thing and I also think he knows someone and would not pass it on if it were not what he was hearing. (not to say they might not be wrong in the end because the decision may be out of their sources hands and could get changed at the last minute).

Clearly, there was some reason why a version was not put out not too long after 6.2 went out to teh SD units. Has that underlying reason changed, who knows?

[newsposter]

I don't think that not turning off the guide or even allowing us to record OTA HD signals is a big deal. If it does not record all of the HDTV stuff up there its a door stop to me and probably to most other HDTV users.

i think you should qualify and say "most other hdtv users that don't get in adequate OTA" :) My reasoning is that for people like me that get in everything they need OTA (actually more than directv offers or likely ever will) and dont care about the HDpak, the hdtivo is just fine as is. There are a few of us that care about wb/upn/pbs I'm guessing.

Um, you have an MPEG4 OTA receiver? Uh... huh?

isn't that what the hr20 is..sort of :)? Or did he mean standalone? (of course OTA is mpeg2 so then i see why you responded and will add my own rolleyes )

[cheer]

Perhaps what he meant was that the HR20 supposedly has a newer-generation ATSC tuner; surfing around avsforum suggests that the newer-gen tuners can lock on signals that older ones had trouble with due to multipath and/or lack of signal strength.

I dunno, myself. My HR10-250 and my 8th-gen Panny both seem to have similar results -- in Chicago I can get everything except the local CBS affiliate, which is broadcasting VHF-Lo, is 45 miles away from me, and my stupid antenna is in the attic and I'm too lazy to move it. :)

--chris

[GalenMD]

I have a theory (maybe wishful thinking):

What if they are waiting to upgrade to 6.2 after the new units ship? That way, if 6.2 causes some crashes/problems with some units, they will only offer replacements (of those under warranty or service contract) with the new units. Otherwise, they would have to replace them with HR10-250's. Do they have enough of these refurb units lying around?

[Adam1115]

Okay folks, we're never getting 6.x/7.x on the HR10. Can this thread be left to die already?

Regardless of whether or not we are going to get it, I can agree the thread should die. Why rehash this again? IF we get it, we obbiously won't know about it UNTIL we do. And them I'm sure someone here will post.

[Mikey_C]

http://www.geocities.com/yankeefan159/deadhorse1vy.gif

[Rombaldi]

Okay folks, we're never getting 6.x/7.x on the HR10. Can this thread be left to die already?

I believe Dan Collins before I would believe the blatent pessimism you've shown on this thread.

[newsposter]

i prefer this one

http://www.bjacked.net/LuvToHunt/forums/phpBB2/modules/gallery/albums/album01/Beat_Dead_Horse.jpg

[AbMagFab]

We've been told dozens of times by lots of people with "connections" that 6.2 is coming soon. Heck, just check the beginning of this thread.

DirecTV has an agreement with Tivo now. Extending it three years doesn't change their reasons for not releasing 6.2. They didn't want to release it before, and they still don't.

However with the impending release of the Series 3, DirecTV has lots of reasons to hold out a carrot. But they haven't followed through on most of their other carrots, so...

The past (not Dan Collins) is the best predictor of the future.

(And it's realism, not pessimism.)

[MichaelK]

I respect Dan’s comments immensely- I assume everything he says is a fact. But I really find it difficult to believe at this point they will release 6.x. It’s been years, there was even a demo of 6.x on an HR10 at CES as some point (maybe it was even CES 2005?- anyone remember?). So why would it be ‘likely’? Either they could release the working code Tivo has given them or not. It seems like it’s a pretty straightforward answer- flip the switch or don’t. If the negotiations involved a stipulation or decision to deploy the code it would be a bit more definitive than “likely” -wouldn’t it be?

Sounds to me like:
Tivo said “OK OK we wont sue you for patent infringement but throw us a bone and deploy 6.2”
Directv said “ well we cant promise anything but if you sign away your rights to sue we’ll try to get that done.”
Tivo signed.
Rupert’s minions went in the back room and laughed about deploying 6.2. (although they may have been former NDS execs, in which case they would have laughed openly in TiVo’s face after they suckered them.)

[rminsk]

It’s been years,The 6.2 release watch thread (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=227399) I posted was on 2/27/05 and they started the test rollout in Los Angeles around 3/1/05. If I remember right the 6.2 rollout completed about 6 months after that. So it has been around 7 months since 6.2 completed rolling out.

[miss_my_utv]

Sounds to me like:
Tivo said “OK OK we wont sue you for patent infringement but throw us a bone and deploy 6.2”
Directv said “ well we cant promise anything but if you sign away your rights to sue we’ll try to get that done.”
Tivo signed.
Rupert’s minions went in the back room and laughed about deploying 6.2. (although they may have been former NDS execs, in which case they would have laughed openly in TiVo’s face after they suckered them.)

Yeah, and after they got through those tough negotiations on the issue of primary importance to Tivo, they could concentrate on coming to agreements on secondary stuff - like ongoing service and maintenance fees!

I respect Dan’s comments immensely- I assume everything he says is a fact. But I really find it difficult to believe at this point they will release 6.x. It’s been years, there was even a demo of 6.x on an HR10 at CES as some point (maybe it was even CES 2005?- anyone remember?). So why would it be ‘likely’? Either they could release the working code Tivo has given them or not. It seems like it’s a pretty straightforward answer- flip the switch or don’t. If the negotiations involved a stipulation or decision to deploy the code it would be a bit more definitive than “likely” -wouldn’t it be?


A complete SWAG on my part, but a possible reason it may be more " 'likely' " is the extension of the maintenance agreement. "Working code" often doesn't when widely deployed (at least not perfectly), especially on new (or different) hardware. Could be folks didn't want to risk it with a short window on the previous maintenance agreement. Now there's more time (and $s) to deal with any issues.

Again, just a SWAG. I really don't know enough about the mystical 6.2 upgrade to get all religious about it, so haven't really followed things...

[STL]

I think it's more likely we will see DISH Network partner with TiVo before we see 6.2 on our HR10-250s. In all honestly I don't think either is all that likely, but I did send a quick note to DISH Network (via this link (http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/aboutus/contact_us/index.asp?Show=1) ) to make it clear that I would switch to them if they partnered with TiVo. If enough DirecTiVo owners did the same maybe that might have have an effect.

[alv]

i prefer this one

http://www.bjacked.net/LuvToHunt/forums/phpBB2/modules/gallery/albums/album01/Beat_Dead_Horse.jpg


Best post of this thread - by far

[Gotchaa]

Um, you have an MPEG4 OTA receiver? Uh... huh?


Mpeg4 receiver=H20, with OTA= 5th genertation 8VSB

Reception is much better with H20, any multipath issues I have with the HR10 are gone.

[Arcady]

It's still not OTA MPEG4, since that doesn't exist.

[alv]

maybe the confusion is that MPEG 4 receivers have both satellite and OTA MPEG 2 capability as well

[MichaelK]

The 6.2 release watch thread (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=227399) I posted was on 2/27/05 and they started the test rollout in Los Angeles around 3/1/05. If I remember right the 6.2 rollout completed about 6 months after that. So it has been around 7 months since 6.2 completed rolling out.

I meant It’s been YEARS since the HR10 was developed with old code and should have been updated. It’s been over a year since 6.2 was complete and released in the wild (and that likely sat around for months and months or YEARS also) so presumably the Directv development team at Tivo has had at least that time to work 100% on the HR10 6.2 (if they didn’t start on it earlier). Tivo has frequently built their software versions to work on all boxes as evidenced by the ability to put SA software with HMO on the SD directivo’s for YEARS now. So it’s been years since the HR10 should have had a software revision ready.

I’m not talking about when Directv decides to do things I’m talking about how long they COULD have been doing things.

Regardless 6.x was shown at CES alive and well and working on an HR10- so it’s done. Directv has just decided for whatever reason not to deploy it and that’s my point. They aren’t thinking about it, they have had the ability top release it already and have already decided not to. Had they been waiting for the new agreement to decide to deploy it, they would have decided with the agreement to deploy it- not some bland statement that they “likely” will deploy it.

[MichaelK]

Yeah, and after they got through those tough negotiations on the issue of primary importance to Tivo, they could concentrate on coming to agreements on secondary stuff - like ongoing service and maintenance fees!



A complete SWAG on my part, but a possible reason it may be more " 'likely' " is the extension of the maintenance agreement. "Working code" often doesn't when widely deployed (at least not perfectly), especially on new (or different) hardware. Could be folks didn't want to risk it with a short window on the previous maintenance agreement. Now there's more time (and $s) to deal with any issues.

Again, just a SWAG. I really don't know enough about the mystical 6.2 upgrade to get all religious about it, so haven't really followed things...

I didn’t say it was the paramount negotiating point for TiVo- hence the “throw us a bone” comment – as in please do us a favor since we gave you everything you want in continued support and a promise not to sue.

Your point about not releasing code into the wild right before a potential lack of support is something to ponder, but they could have released it in February and had a year to deploy it to the 1 or 2 hundred thousand HR10’s that exist and had plenty of time to kick the tires before the contract was originally scheduled to end. And as I said above, TiVo could have given them a working version months and months if not years ago if Directv had wanted to be bothered.

I wont flat out say I think Dan or his source is wrong, but just as his source say’s it’s “likely” but wont say certain, my ignorant unknowing opinion is that it is “unlikely” but I wont say certainly not.

I hope for the diehards I am wrong but at this point I think I’m pretty well decided that I’m bailing on Directv as soon as the Series 3 comes out so unless they roll it out tomorrow there’s not much matters to me. I need a second HD DVR. Even if 6.x is deployed and we can hack MRV onto it I’m still not going to pay $400 to lease a second unit from them get stuck for another 2 years and have no ability to get MPEG4 content when I can just get a couple Series 3 and get everything I want and stay on the leading edge with Tivo. But maybe 6.x getting rolled will benefit me- then I can get a few more bucks for my used HR10 on ebay when the time comes. So on second though I really hope it does pop out. I still think it unlikely but I hope I am wrong.

[Syzygy]

Just to be clear... this ["Clear and Delete Everything"] also deletes all your recordings. I know it's obvious since it states "everything", but I just wanted to be clear. I really should have done this when I was down to less than one page of recordings. Now I have 5+.I didn't have any important shows in Now Playing at the time that I cleared everything.

Next time (a year or two from now) maybe I'll try "Clear Program Data and To Do List" instead.

I was guessing that "Clear and Delete Everything" would have the same effect as defragmenting my hard drive. But who knows? Maybe TiVo's ongoing garbage-collection algorithm works so well there wasn't any significant disk fragmentation. :up:

[Mavrick22]

http://www.webpages.uidaho.edu/~hobd8260/BeatDeadHorse.gif

[miss_my_utv]

I didn’t say it was the paramount negotiating point for TiVo- hence the “throw us a bone” comment – as in please do us a favor since we gave you everything you want in continued support and a promise not to sue.



Oops, I forgot the ;) in that part of my post - sorry!

[Arcady]

I wish D* would just say if they are releasing 6.2 for the HR10. As soon as they say they will not, some hacker will make 6.2 work in about 17 minutes, and we can get on with life.

[Lee L]

I wish D* would just say if they are releasing 6.2 for the HR10. As soon as they say they will not, some hacker will make 6.2 work in about 17 minutes, and we can get on with life.

Hackers have tried for some time to make 6.2 work on the HR10, but so far no success.

[Gotchaa]

It's still not OTA MPEG4, since that doesn't exist.

Yes it's not, that's not what I meant. Local Broadcasters send compressed MPEG2 signals, and likely will for years to come.

That doesn't change the fact that the OTA tuner in the HR10-250 sucks compared to the H20.

[GalenMD]

Okay. I hope I don't get flamed for this. I have never posted a rumor or misleading information here before. Here goes (with a little backround):

I work near Fox studios. I was always hoping that I would get the opportunity to meet an executive with enough authority to research this issue for me, but I had no luck. Everyone who came in was only involved in Fox stuff. Then, a VERY close relative of mine got a job with D*. I got excited that maybe I would have an inside source, but she had no contacts at all with anyone who is involved with DVRs or equipment. Darn!

Finally, somebody walks in to my office who clearly has a direct line of communication with those "in the know." Now, I have no idea if this information is supposed to be kept confidential or not. Actually, I would have no idea why they would want to keep it confidential. But just in case, I have edited the response to "protect the innocent." I only promise you this: I cannot imagine a more reputable source than this person. He is definitely a higher up with direct knowledge of these things. If I ask and get permission to say anything, I will release my source. I spoke to him several times over the last few weeks and received this email:

Good News! It's in test, so most likely in one to two months it will start to show up in the fielded boxes. It will fix the slowness issue...
I have become a major doubter of 6.2 being released. I lost all hope months ago. Now, I have faith again.

Please don't ask me more as I know nothing besides this. I already pushed him to get this information for me. This is all I know and I will not ask him for any more information unless we happen to speak for other reasons.

[bigrig]

Oh, wait! I think the horse was only sleeping, it's starting to come around! ;)

Thanks for the info, Galen.

[bgut1]

Okay. I hope I don't get flamed for this. I have never posted a rumor or misleading information here before. Here goes (with a little backround):

I work near Fox studios. I was always hoping that I would get the opportunity to meet an executive with enough authority to research this issue for me, but I had no luck. Everyone who came in was only involved in Fox stuff. Then, a VERY close relative of mine got a job with D*. I got excited that maybe I would have an inside source, but she had no contacts at all with anyone who is involved with DVRs or equipment. Darn!

Finally, somebody walks in to my office who clearly has a direct line of communication with those "in the know." Now, I have no idea if this information is supposed to be kept confidential or not. Actually, I would have no idea why they would want to keep it confidential. But just in case, I have edited the response to "protect the innocent." I only promise you this: I cannot imagine a more reputable source than this person. He is definitely a higher up with direct knowledge of these things. If I ask and get permission to say anything, I will release my source. I spoke to him several times over the last few weeks and received this email:


I have become a major doubter of 6.2 being released. I lost all hope months ago. Now, I have faith again.

Please don't ask me more as I know nothing besides this. I already pushed him to get this information for me. This is all I know and I will not ask him for any more information unless we happen to speak for other reasons.
This corroborates the information I received from DirecTv customer retention. The person I spoke with was a supervisor in that department.

[Crypter]

I am pretty happy with my HR10-250 I get all my locals through my OTA antenna. I tried looking through this thread and I did not find the info I was looking for. Basically what will this 6.2 Upgrade do for owners of the HR10-250? Why is it such a big deal? If there is already a post that explains how this helps us please point me to it. Otherwise a response would be most appreciated.

[bigrig]

Adds folders to the Now Playing list, and speeds up the interface.

When you first get the Tivo it's bearable, but after you have it for a while it can take ~5 minutes to add a recording or rearrange the Season Passes.

[phox_mulder]

. . .and speeds up the interface.

When you first get the Tivo it's bearable, but after you have it for a while it can take ~5 minutes to add a recording or rearrange the Season Passes.

That right there makes 6.2 worth it to me.

I noticed the slowness right out of the box, comparing it to my 2 previous TiVo's.

Now a little over a month later, it's very noticeable, so much so that I'm not recording as much as I'd like to, as that would add Season Passes which would slow it down even more.


phox

[MarcusInMD]

Ughh...Here we go again with..it's in testing and maybe in 1 to 2 months...sigh. I want to believe, I really do...but....

BTW, I am not doubting your source but it seems that so many have heard from "higher ups" at DirecTV with what seems like the same one liner..

Let's talk at the end of May or June.

[PJO1966]

Dr. Galen... That's one hell of a long disclaimer...

:D

[GalenMD]

Ughh...Here we go again with..it's in testing and maybe in 1 to 2 months...sigh. I want to believe, I really do...but....

BTW, I am not doubting your source but it seems that so many have heard from "higher ups" at DirecTV with what seems like the same one liner..

Let's talk at the end of May or June.
I do understand your skepticism. However, this is not your typical source. These people are not involved in any form of customer service (CSR or technical support). This came from the main engineering department, the ones that are actually doing the testing. This is definitely good information.

The only caveat is that they are still calling it "testing." What if it ultimately fails testing? From the tone of things, they sound fairly confident that the upgrade will get pushed out soon. G-d I hope.

[GalenMD]

Dr. Galen... That's one hell of a long disclaimer...

:D
Yep. I'm just aware of the deep skepticism here (that I have shared until today).

[JRAllas]

I'm sure this had to had to be mentioned at least 10 times in this thread, but I don't have the patience or time to read through that many posts. In a couple months, why would DirecTV waste resources upgrading the software for a DVR rumors say they might be abandoning in the Fall?

[Arcady]

Why did they waste resources updating the software on the SD units? They knew the R15 was coming, and they did it anyway. Maybe they want to stop the complaints from HR10 owners. Maybe the HR20 is being delayed, and they are worried about losing customers. And it doesn't really cost them much to deploy a new software release, since it gets fed over the satellite for almost everyone anyway.

Of course, since everything I just said makes some sense, it will probably never happen.

[PJO1966]

They also just signed another three year agreement with TiVo

[TyroneShoes]

...What if it ultimately fails testing? From the tone of things, they sound fairly confident that the upgrade will get pushed out soon. G-d I hope.Failure is the nature of software testing. You only stop testing when the software is relatively no longer broken and does not break previous improvements (read: when it stops failing). IOW, it will fail regularly until it is ready, and then will hopefully fail not at all after being released, at the very worst maybe only a time or two.

And we don't want it too soon. It's much less painful to wait. Those of us who lived through the dark ages of DISH PVRs know that all too well (the nightmares have all but gone away). They were pushing a new up rev every other week, it seemed, and every single one of them seemed to break something new and was surrounded by a too many problems and too few features, and usually was plagued by a systemic problem with the upgrading process itself. And quite a few HDDs got wiped more than once. Entire archived first seasons of Alias and 24 disappeared for some owners.

There was a way to decline up revs in the software prefs, but that only delayed the inevitable for a short time, and eventully they would force the up rev down your throat whether you wanted it or not (because there were so many problems that folks were doing everything they could to prevent them, which wasn't all that effective). It was a virtual holocaust. PVR armageddon. That period lasted a couple of years, and they still haven't really got it together 3 years after that.

Tivo, on the other hand, seems to have very few up revs, each is significant, and they rarely break anything. Their track record is great, specifically because they take their sweet time. It also helps that they have great programmers, which is apparently rare in this business.

[codespy]

This corroborates the information I received from DirecTv customer retention. The person I spoke with was a supervisor in that department.

Me too. I had them CALL me instead of email. As I was interrogating her, she indicated her notes pointed to an August release if the testing worked.

Of course, I'll believe it when I see it, but have a small ray of hope.

[alv]

While 6.2 is desired, speed can be greatly improved by tuning both tuners to non subscribed channels. I just did that to reorganize season passes and response was almost instanteous.

[MarcusInMD]

I'm still very skeptical. When it comes to companies like DirecTV. They are like dinosaurs, slam them in the tail and they react a week later to the pain. What you guys might be hearing is something that has already been decided at higher levels to not be worth the time or effort.

[narrod]

While 6.2 is desired, speed can be greatly improved by tuning both tuners to non subscribed channels. I just did that to reorganize season passes and response was almost instanteous.

Excellent tip. It does speed things up considerably.

[sluciani]

While 6.2 is desired, speed can be greatly improved by tuning both tuners to non subscribed channels. I just did that to reorganize season passes and response was almost instanteous.

Unfortunately, it didn't work for me. Maybe I just have too many passes? I've got 30 of them and it took about 8 minutes to move one up from the bottom to #9 at the same time I was tuned to 81 and 83, neither of which I subscribe to.

/steve

[newsposter]

i turned to 2 and 4 (no channels) and while it didn't take just a minute to change, i went away and came back and it was less than 5 minutes so that's pretty good with over 60 sp

[joetoronto]

wow, i had no idea some of you guys had so many season passes. :eek:

all this time i've been wondering how long it would take for my units to slow down, like i've been reading here, but i only have 3 or 4 sp's on them.

am i safe to assume that they won't slow down if i keep the sp's low and not come close to filling up the drives?

[sluciani]

am i safe to assume that they won't slow down if i keep the sp's low and not come close to filling up the drives?

Pretty safe assumption, IMHO.

/steve

[Cwaters]

I had a dream that I was checking my file and it said ver 6.20.03...
Not sure if this qualifys as a good solid source for information but I DO sometimes have dreams that come true...

CW
the above is true but I'm just being silly.

[richierich]

Also, kill the Suggestions and that will also help. If you tune to non-existent channels then the CPU does not have to do all the work related to video streaming, etc. no overhead for that task so it is freed up to work on your Season Passes and other tasks.

[jhimmel]

I had a dream that I was checking my file and it said ver 6.20.03...


FINALLY some good solid evidence from a source more reliable than a CSR.

Things are looking up.

Jim H.

[joetoronto]

Pretty safe assumption, IMHO.

/steve

thanks, steve.

another thing i did was i turned off suggestions soon after i got my first unit and right away with the other two.

i'm knocking on wood as i write this, i haven't experienced any slowness at all yet. :)

[Crypter]

Riddle me this..... Why has D* not upgraded the software for the HR10-250 yet?

Could it be cause the software is not working too good for the HR10-250 yet? Or is it possibly because the cost of pushing out this upgrade to D* is not worth the reward? I mean with so many skeptics out there doubting that we will ever see this upgrade. I ask you WHY? Why wouldn't they want to upgrade the HR10-250 software? I mean if it is such an obvious improvement as so many of you suggest.

[zalusky]

Maybe they want people to think their replacement box is zippier with more features, so they will want to leave Tivo. Now if their replacement box is delayed and the competition (Cable) will start having all these cool Tivo features they might be rethinking their position.

[sluciani]

Maybe they want people to think their replacement box is zippier with more features, so they will want to leave Tivo. Now if their replacement box is delayed and the competition (Cable) will start having all these cool Tivo features they might be rethinking their position.

Possibly right, but doesn't entirely make sense to me.

D*'s goal, I'm sure, is customer retention, not hardware sales. Why would they care which box you were using as long as you continued to pay them for monthly programming? By steering you away from DirecTivo, which you already have, they run the risk of losing you entirely to Comcast/Tivo, or to another cableco, via the Series 3 Tivo with Cablecard.

/steve

[Syzygy]

alv said:
While 6.2 is desired, speed can be greatly improved by tuning both tuners to non subscribed channels. I just did that to reorganize season passes and response was almost instanteous.Contrary to the experience of sluciani, my HDTiVo is generally much faster when I tune to 0 and 8 first — but I don't need to do that now that I cleared everything and started over about 3 months ago.

One thing that never seems to speed up, no matter what, is the occasional long pause before responding to the Info button (to go from a program's description to its complete info). I think it's taking the time to shift new data into its very small memory cache.

[joetoronto]

Contrary to the experience of sluciani, my HDTiVo is generally much faster when I tune to 0 and 8 first — but I don't need to do that now that I cleared everything and started over about 3 months ago.

One thing that never seems to speed up, no matter what, is the occasional long pause before responding to the Info button (to go from a program's description to its complete info). I think it's taking the time to shift new data into its very small memory cache.

that's a new one to me, Syzygy, i've never heard of that before.

[zalusky]

Possibly right, but doesn't entirely make sense to me.

D*'s goal, I'm sure, is customer retention, not hardware sales. Why would they care which box you were using as long as you continued to pay them for monthly programming? By steering you away from DirecTivo, which you already have, they run the risk of losing you entirely to Comcast/Tivo, or to another cableco, via the Series 3 Tivo with Cablecard.

/steve

Yes thats true when the competition has a competitive alternative. But up till now all Comcast had was junk.

The original goal of getting rid of Tivo allows them to get all the revenue and not have to pay Tivo. Also it gives them more control on the feature set of the software.

I have heard directly from Tivo people that DirectTV did not like features like HMO because they did not want you watching something that was not DirectTV provided. So the idea of songs and pictures that did not come from DirectTV means your spending time not using their product. The cell phone companies have acted that same way when it came to bluetooth and WiFi which allows you to use the phone without using the carriers minutes.

However now that the competition is about to hopefully provide realistic features similar to 7.x and higher and HD as well, there is a realistic threat. I think they are going to blink.

They also now nothing that compare to Comcasts On Demand library. The landscape will change in the next year and they need to scramble with anything they can get their hands on.

[HiDefGator]

Riddle me this..... Why has D* not upgraded the software for the HR10-250 yet?

Could it be cause the software is not working too good for the HR10-250 yet? Or is it possibly because the cost of pushing out this upgrade to D* is not worth the reward? I mean with so many skeptics out there doubting that we will ever see this upgrade. I ask you WHY? Why wouldn't they want to upgrade the HR10-250 software? I mean if it is such an obvious improvement as so many of you suggest.

You aren't getting the upgrade yet because upgrades take time and money. They would rather spend their time and money and QA staff bandwidth getting the new non-Tivo HD DVR tested and shipped first.

[rminsk]

The dead horse may not quite be dead. There are some rumors that the Series 1 DirecTiVo will be getting version "3.5" of the software. It looks like 3.5 changes the database format to the same format 6.x uses. This will be a major speed up. Some of us are going to start monitoring the satellite download stream for 3.5 slices. For the thread see http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=297060

[vertigo235]

this is indeed good news for hr10-250 owners, we just have to wait and see now

[richierich]

If I just live long enough I might get to actually see and get the 6.2 update.

[rminsk]

So the 3.5 software rollout has started on the Series 1 DirecTiVos (Sony SAT-T60, Philips DSR6000, and the Hughes GXCEBOT). A user has already reported receiving it and having it installed.

There is a web page about it on the DirecTV site now http://www.directv.com/see/landing/dvr35_upgrade.html. A really bad quote on that page is
Are all DIRECTV DVRs receiving this 3.5 upgrade?
No. Only DIRECTV DVR models SONY SAT-T60, PHILIPS DSR6000R, HUGHES GXCEBOT and HUGHES GXCEBOT will receive the 3.5 software upgrade. Newer DVRs with the TiVo® interface should already have upgraded software, with the exception of the HR10-250 HD-DVR, which does not require an upgrade at this time. Remember, a land-based phone line is needed for these upgrades to take effect.I think the HR10-250 needs the upgrade much more than the Series 1 machines. I have both and the HR10-250 is much slower than my series 1 with a 137 gig drive in it.

[Rombaldi]

actually the quote is quite accurate... the HD10-250 ALREADY HAS the 3.5 software, the paragraph in question is discussing 3.5, not 6.2

[rminsk]

actually the quote is quite accurate... the HD10-250 ALREADY HAS the 3.5 software, the paragraph in question is discussing 3.5, not 6.2But the 3.5 upgrade on the Series 1 machine seems to be changing the database format to the 6.x format. My HR10-250 only has 3.1.5... :rolleyes:

[jasch]

actually the quote is quite accurate... the HD10-250 ALREADY HAS the 3.5 software, the paragraph in question is discussing 3.5, not 6.2

You mean 3.1.5 right? Unless you have the only HR10-250 with 3.5 on it <grin>

[tbb1226]

this is indeed good news for hr10-250 owners, we just have to wait and see nowOK, NOW we wait and see. :rolleyes:

[Rombaldi]

You mean 3.1.5 right? Unless you have the only HR10-250 with 3.5 on it <grin>

DOH! (that's what I get for typing and talking...)

[newsposter]

someone else may have already posted but here's their canned reply

Thanks for writing about the DIRECTV DVR (TiVo) 6.2 Software Upgrade. Please be advised that the HD-DVR (DIRECTV HR10-250) will get the software upgrade but the date has yet to be determined.

Thanks again for writing and stay tuned to DIRECTV.com for the latest news and information about our services.

Sincerely,

[Chargerdan]

Does anyone think it's possible that the HD Tivo will get the 3.5 update like the S1 boxes and not 6.2? If it changes the database structure to make it go faster I could live with it. I would like to have folders like my R10 but speed is my biggest issue with the HR10-250.

[Guindalf]

Oh gosh - let's thrash a deceased equine again!

Anything stated here is pure speculation and no-one apart from the nice folk at D* can answer this question - and I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.

All I can say is that I don't think 3.5 would appease many people with HR10s.

[rifleman69]

Does anyone think it's possible that the HD Tivo will get the 3.5 update like the S1 boxes and not 6.2? If it changes the database structure to make it go faster I could live with it. I would like to have folders like my R10 but speed is my biggest issue with the HR10-250.


Yep, if I had to choose folders over database/guide speed...I'd take the speed any day of the week.

[Lee L]

Anything stated here is pure speculation and no-one apart from the nice folk at D* can answer this question



And most of them can;t even answer accurately.

[Guindalf]

And most of them can;t even answer accurately.

No, Lee. I didn't say they WILL answer, just that they CAN answer!

[newsposter]

Oh gosh - let's thrash a deceased equine again!
.

as requested

http://www.bjacked.net/LuvToHunt/forums/phpBB2/modules/gallery/albums/album01/Beat_Dead_Horse.jpg

[GalenMD]

I am getting more confidant that my source was correct and that the update will be coming. If they really were not interested in any more updates, then why would the update the old series 1 boxes: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=297060

Those units are old and so easily replaceable, I don't see why they would bother unless they had some sense of responsibility to us.

I know that most won't believe it, but 6.2 is coming!

[codespy]

I just ordered Sunday Ticked w/free superfan for 2006.

After that, I was asked if any more questions.

Of course, I asked my HR10-250 software update question as usual.

His first response was 'Starts March 7th around 2:00am....................

I cut him off and said that was 2005.

He acknowledged that.

Clicked a couple more keys.

Then said 'Starts April 26th at 1:40am every night, phone line, bla bla bla...'.

I said that's Series 1 Reno.

He said no that's HR10-250.

I said when am I getting it in my region.

He said May 3rd and seemed kind of quick to get off the phone.

If it seems like BS, and smells like BS, it probably is.

Of course, I'm one of their best customers.

I still have some faith in you Earl, despite the BS lines they give out.

[nrc]

Does anyone think it's possible that the HD Tivo will get the 3.5 update like the S1 boxes and not 6.2? If it changes the database structure to make it go faster I could live with it. I would like to have folders like my R10 but speed is my biggest issue with the HR10-250.

I'd say that the odds have gone from near zero to pretty good. DTV didn't send that update out of the goodness of their hearts. Either there's an issue that made the update necessary or the new agreement will allow Tivo to decide when to make updates. In either case the HD Tivo is likely to benefit.

[MichaelK]

the series1 update does certainly give me reason to think maybe I've been too pessimistic and 6.x might come to the HR10....

[thumperxr69]

Well...I have been way too busy to keep up with the forums like I did over the winter but this is one thread that I have been following with baited (sp) breath. My son (12 rs old) teases me that my TiVo (HD) is slower than his. ARGGGGG.....Folders and faster processing would be a godsend.....

T

[GalenMD]

I'd say that the odds have gone from near zero to pretty good. DTV didn't send that update out of the goodness of their hearts. Either there's an issue that made the update necessary or the new agreement will allow Tivo to decide when to make updates. In either case the HD Tivo is likely to benefit.
What kind of an issue with the old series 1 would warrant an update? Those units are so darn old now, what's the point? Especially considering how cheap it is to get a series 2. Many of us have gotten them for free. Though this makes me even more hopeful that 6.2 is coming, I still don't understand why they would bother touching those old things. Maybe if they crashed some units, they could coax some people by signing up for 2 more years if they accept a new free D* DVR.

[nrc]

What kind of an issue with the old series 1 would warrant an update? Those units are so darn old now, what's the point?
There have been instances in the past where minor updates like the recent one for S1 boxes have been pushed out because some recent or upcoming change in the data stream from DTV creates a problem for the unit.

But I'm hoping that the update was actually being driven by TiVo.

[appleye1]

There is a web page about it on the DirecTV site now http://www.directv.com/see/landing/dvr35_upgrade.html. A really bad quote on that page is

The same page said How will I know when I have received my upgrade?
You'll receive an on-screen message the first time you visit DIRECTV Central after your upgrade is complete. It will also appear in your Messages section. I didn't get any message on any of my S1 boxes. Did anybody else? If I weren't a member of this forum (or anal about keeping track of version numbers) I wouldn't have had a clue what had happened to my channels, etc.

[D_Doherty]

There have been instances in the past where minor updates like the recent one for S1 boxes have been pushed out because some recent or upcoming change in the data stream from DTV creates a problem for the unit.

But I'm hoping that the update was actually being driven by TiVo.


Did the update allow for the 72 degree sat slot?

[rminsk]

Did the update allow for the 72 degree sat slot?The hardware is not capable of generating the correct information to send to the multiswitch to get the 72.5 degree slot. on the series 1 machines.

[MarcusInMD]

I just ordered Sunday Ticked w/free superfan for 2006.

After that, I was asked if any more questions.

Of course, I asked my HR10-250 software update question as usual.

His first response was 'Starts March 7th around 2:00am....................

I cut him off and said that was 2005.

He acknowledged that.

Clicked a couple more keys.

Then said 'Starts April 26th at 1:40am every night, phone line, bla bla bla...'.

I said that's Series 1 Reno.

He said no that's HR10-250.

I said when am I getting it in my region.

He said May 3rd and seemed kind of quick to get off the phone.

If it seems like BS, and smells like BS, it probably is.

Of course, I'm one of their best customers.

I still have some faith in you Earl, despite the BS lines they give out.


How is the new software upgrade? :p

[MichaelK]

The hardware is not capable of generating the correct information to send to the multiswitch to get the 72.5 degree slot. on the series 1 machines.

Are you sure about that? I thought Dan Collins said back when 72 started getting used that they could but Directv didn’t want to bother with the update. But I could be totally off my rocker.

[rminsk]

Are you sure about that? I thought Dan Collins said back when 72 started getting used that they could but Directv didn’t want to bother with the update. But I could be totally off my rocker.Yes. I am sure about that. It has been covered numerous times.

[MichaelK]

thanks- I must have been having a brain short

[codespy]

How is the new software upgrade? :p

I was really, really holding my breath. Nothing has happened. (Surprise)

Maybe I should boycott DTV- that will really send a statement and get them.

Rupert let me down again. I'll call him later to complain. :D

Thanks customer-no-service.

[bsgoren]

I am getting more confidant that my source was correct and that the update will be coming. If they really were not interested in any more updates, then why would the update the old series 1 boxes: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=297060

Those units are old and so easily replaceable, I don't see why they would bother unless they had some sense of responsibility to us.

I know that most won't believe it, but 6.2 is coming!

Still waiting... :rolleyes: :mad:

[richierich]

Thank God the 6.2 Release is finally coming!!! Now I can breathe again!!! Boy are there alot of suckers out there who really believe that it will come!!! I said over a year ago or whenever this thread started that we will not get it and apparently I must be PSYCHIC or just SMART as hell about the way corporations do things.

Y'ALL KEEP WAITING for 6.2 and also the new VAPORWARE that D* is offering as their new DVR which they can't seem to roll out. Gives you a lot of confidence that this new box will work as advertised. I think I will just buy me another HR10-250!!!

[pdawg17]

If 6.2 never does come they are even more idiotic than I thought because why take the time to make an update for the Series 1 boxes and leave out the HD10-250?

[austinsho]

If 6.2 never does come they are even more idiotic than I thought because why take the time to make an update for the Series 1 boxes and leave out the HD10-250?

Ummm....because there are more of them out there? Because there are issues with the HD10-250 upgrade? Could be either...or neither.

[DVRaholic]

Im guessing that if we ever see the 6.2 update for the HR10-250
it will be If and Only If the Cablecard Series 3 Tivo is released BEFORE Directv can get its
act together and release their NDS version HR20-250.

If the HR20-250 is released first we will probably never see 6.2 on our HR10-250's

I think Directv is just playing a waiting game now.... (I Hope!!)

Come On Series 3 !!! :D

[pdawg17]

Ummm....because there are more of them out there? Because there are issues with the HD10-250 upgrade? Could be either...or neither.

Ummm....ok....

[kennet6565]

Please explain "zippered and enhanced" HR10-250

[pdawg17]

Please explain "zippered and enhanced" HR10-250

You need to look "Underground" :D

[k1114]

not going to happen

[newsposter]

are we there yet?

[ebonovic]

are we there yet?

We are right here my little Smurfs....

And a little birdie has updated me, that another "crow" in another thread stating that update wasn't going to happen.... is wrong. :)

Time will tell

[Lee L]

OK, Earl, lets be a little more crypitc. ;) You sound like a politician and political talk is not allowed.

Are you saying there is a rumor resurfacing that it might happen after all?

[ebonovic]

I like being cryptic... sometimes (it's how I can skirt around what I can and can't say.. :) )

Yes.... it may happen after all. I don't have any type of updated time line, other then they are very intrested in getting it updated to be at least functionally equivilent to the 6.x systems. And performance equivilent to all the SD DTivos out there.

[newsposter]

sometimes (it's how I can skirt around :) )
.

explain why you are skirting around? Does this have something to do with cold medicine? Does it make pants or shorts more difficult to wear? Does your employer give you any hassles about cross dressing? And are skirts really all that comfortable? I always wondered as I've never worn one. :)

[willardcpa]

explain why you are skirting around? Does this have something to do with cold medicine? Does it make pants or shorts more difficult to wear? Does your employer give you any hassles about cross dressing? And are skirts really all that comfortable? I always wondered as I've never worn one. :)
They must be very sensual to wear. Just look at Earl's avatar. It's got "I'm wearing a skirt." written all over it. :eek: :D

[pkscout]

I like being cryptic... sometimes (it's how I can skirt around what I can and can't say.. :) )

Yes.... it may happen after all. I don't have any type of updated time line, other then they are very intrested in getting it updated to be at least functionally equivilent to the 6.x systems. And performance equivilent to all the SD DTivos out there.

Well, DirecTV has about 3 - 4 weeks to do this before I dump my dish, go back to cable, get one of the TWC DVRs, and wait for the Series 3. My HDTiVo has become so slow and unstable that I rejoice anytime I actually get a show recorded (OK, it's not that bad, but it is getting close).