Will the HR10-250 EVER get the 6.2 Update ??

[Jimmmmbo!]

I just put a new hard disk in my HR10-250 to replace a failing one. It now gets through the scheduling process much quicker than with the old hard disk. So there could very well be merit in the idea that the delays are partially associated with disk fragmentation. Of course, the hard disk is different and is a Seagate supposedly optimized for PVR work, but I doubt it has that much of an effect.

I've also had success with tuning the two tuners to channels that don't exist (such as local channel numbers with no signals), and this makes the recording scheduler run much faster, usually done within about 5 secs.

[richierich]

I've also had success with tuning the two tuners to channels that don't exist (such as local channel numbers with no signals), and this makes the recording scheduler run much faster, usually done within about 5 secs.

Processing 2 HD channels of video takes alot of CPU work and that is why they should have increased the processor speed to handle 8 to 16 times more data. Therefore, tuning them to nonexistant channels eliminates alot of processor work so it can devote that time to scheduling recordings.

[Klankster]

Good information - Thanks. I knew that if the unit was in HD mode it was using more cycles to process that video information, but ours is even slow in SD on both tuners. We'll live with it for now -- I'm not going to tell my wife to tune both tuners to inactive channels -- I can just imagine the look she'd give me! :rolleyes:

[Carlton Bale]

My biggest want would be the responsive program guide. Having a 6.2 box to compare with, the hr10-250 is nearly unbearable.

If you want a responsive program guide, switch from the crappy default DirecTV program guide to the Tivo program guide. It looks a little different (I like it better) and it is much, much faster as it comes directly from the Tivo database on the hard drive and not real-time downloads via the satellite.

It was ridiculous for DirecTV to make their guide the default when performance is so completely terrible.

[richierich]

I thought everyone used the Tivo Guide as it is much faster and I also like it better.

[tase2]

How do you switch between the two?

[flmgrip]

press info when you look at the guide and you'll be taken to an options screen

[jhimmel]

I thought everyone used the Tivo Guide as it is much faster and I also like it better.

Depends on what I'm doing. Sometimes the TiVo guide is preferred, but sometimes the other guide is more useful. It's a shame it is so slow. Especially since the fix is available but denied to us by DTV.

[Lee L]

But it is still slow to set a recording, no matter what guide you use. They really should give this thing 6.2, but it sure seems like that ship has sailed.

[cheer]

I thought everyone used the Tivo Guide as it is much faster and I also like it better.
Maybe it's just me, but I hate the Tivo guide. I much prefer the grid. The Tivo-style guide drives my entire family nuts.

For what it's worth.

[BillyT2002]

People who like to watch live-TV usually prefer the D*-style grid guide. I and others like me, who watch nothing on live-TV anymore (I only watch what has been recorded precisely so I can skip the advertising which I do in EVERY case), usually prefer the TIVO-style guide.

[garyock]

Guess I'm a little confused here.

Which one of the guides is which? I use the one the lists the channels on the left and when you click on any particular channel (of left) it will show guide of what's on that channel on right half.

Plus, maybe I'm lucky or whatever, I've never had ANY function take over 40-45 seconds....tops. Most are done in 3 to 7 seconds. And, I've set up, changed, cancelled many, many season passes, and usually set up recordings either from grid (above) or using search function.

BUT....it would be nice to have the upgrade to put the shows in 'folders' to ease of going thru list to see what you want to watch,etc.

[SleepyBob]

Guess I'm a little confused here.

Which one of the guides is which? I use the one the lists the channels on the left and when you click on any particular channel (of left) it will show guide of what's on that channel on right half.


That's the TiVo Guide, which is standard on standalone TiVos. The DirecTV grid has channels down the side and timeslots across the top, in a grid format. I think the colored bars take the TiVo a lot more time to process, which makes navigating in it pretty slow.

[looknow12]

Could the reason for no 6.2 update be that D* burned their bridges too soon with TIVO?

If TIVO was doing the programming for D* and D* told them they were going to start competing with them with their own units built by someone else, then it would not surprise me if TIVO said tough sh** when asked to continue software support.

That is, assuming TIVO provided the software support.

But, if TIVO has patients to a lot of the software features (such as the 30 second skip), they also may not let D* reprogrram the existing units and retain these features.

There agreement with DTV may obligate them to complete an upgrade regardless. However the initial agreement will most likely not specify time frame to develop upgrades. Mainly because at the time of the TIVO/DTV agreement the scope of software upgrades were unknown. You can't put a project time frame on something you don't know yet. Even if the agreement specified..."To provide timely agreed upon software updates to all TIVO DTV receivers.." it would still leave a lot of leeway.

But why would TIVO do this. It's only in their best interests to make customers experiences with their software a good one. This way later on they may pull customers away from DTV back to their devices. If the software is the best it can be with the most unique features, customers might leave DTV in search for a platform that supports TIVO.

Quite honestly, I'm still in love with my old Ultimate TV (UTV). It is so superior to TIVO in so many ways it's sickening. I tear up when think about how it's now pretty much dead. But Microsoft has spent a considerable amount of money with Windows Media Center and is busy creating set top boxes for many cable companies, hopefully they will ink a deal with DTV we will get the same.

[bdlucas]

Processing 2 HD channels of video takes alot of CPU work and that is why they should have increased the processor speed to handle 8 to 16 times more data. Therefore, tuning them to nonexistant channels eliminates alot of processor work so it can devote that time to scheduling recordings.
Unless you have inside information that I don't we're both just speculating, but based on my knowledge of how such things are designed I think it's unlikely that the processor has anything to do with processing the video itself. There's an chip dedicated to decoding MPEG2, and the output of that is a video stream which is in turn what is output from the box.

[richierich]

The chip just decodes the bitstream but the processor has to handle the data, write it it into the buffer, do alot of background work and then try to do other processes such as handle Season Passes, prioritizing that info to determine if it is doable and if not what conflicts are there, etc.

[vstone]

I would bet that the incoming bit stream(s) are moved directly from the tuner to the hard via DMA with little input (beyond controlling the file system) from the CPU. If they didn't do that, they'd be stupid, since it's doable in all modern PC's.

OTOH, people have said that the unit is slower if recording two HD bitstreams. This might mean that the disk interface won't support sufficient bandwidth (2 HD streams plus database operations, plus standard satellite info download and storage functions) under the current database system.

About 10 years ago I was at a presentation where the speaker was talking about a database about 300 MB in size running on a Compaq with 1 GB in memory. Efeectively the entire DB was cached in memory. With the current price of memory, you'd think that Tivo would do that (assuming the DB isn't very big).

[looknow12]

All of this is waaay off topic. I reiterate: "Will the HR10-250 EVER get the 6.2 Update ??"

[Billy66]

No

[AbMagFab]

All of this is waaay off topic. I reiterate: "Will the HR10-250 EVER get the 6.2 Update ??"

How is "not a chance in hell, start looking at other options" off topic?

[AbMagFab]

I would bet that the incoming bit stream(s) are moved directly from the tuner to the hard via DMA with little input (beyond controlling the file system) from the CPU. If they didn't do that, they'd be stupid, since it's doable in all modern PC's.

OTOH, people have said that the unit is slower if recording two HD bitstreams. This might mean that the disk interface won't support sufficient bandwidth (2 HD streams plus database operations, plus standard satellite info download and storage functions) under the current database system.

About 10 years ago I was at a presentation where the speaker was talking about a database about 300 MB in size running on a Compaq with 1 GB in memory. Efeectively the entire DB was cached in memory. With the current price of memory, you'd think that Tivo would do that (assuming the DB isn't very big).

IDE bandwidth is far, far greater than 2 HD streams. It's not the disk bandwidth, especially with the large block-size Tivo uses for their raw partitions.

It's definitely the processor. Why? We can speculate the details of the Tivo software, but it's the processor that's the issue.

[richierich]

Absolutely Not!!! Get over it and dream of other things that could possibly happen.

[Gotchaa]

Nobody at CES would answer this, even when I pointed out they had it on display last year at CES. Totally useless. It's not going to happen. Oh well, I just hope the D* HD DVR can be upgraded like the HDTivo with larger HD's

[AbMagFab]

Nobody at CES would answer this, even when I pointed out they had it on display last year at CES. Totally useless. It's not going to happen. Oh well, I just hope the D* HD DVR can be upgraded like the HDTivo with larger HD's

I hope the Series 3 SA HD Tivo will work with FIOS TV...

[addictsw]

Just a note here:

http://www.wkblog.com/

Weeknees's blog indicates that 6.2 is likely coming (still) to the HR10-250.

I'll believe it when I see it, but according to them this comes from multiple sources.

[bigrig]

Just a note here:

http://www.wkblog.com/

Weeknees's blog indicates that 6.2 is likely coming (still) to the HR10-250.

I'll believe it when I see it, but according to them this comes from multiple sources.

Yes, we still have hope!! :D

[bjbyers]

According to Tivo the HR10-250 is still not eligible for Tivo online services. Any idears if this is going to change, or an alternative method of obtaining the same content?

[litzdog911]

According to Tivo the HR10-250 is still not eligible for Tivo online services. Any idears if this is going to change, or an alternative method of obtaining the same content?

You would need to hack your HR10-250 to enable USB networking. More info in the Tivo Underground Forum, and searching Google.

[stevel]

Even so, it would not be able to use TiVo's specific features except for Multi-Room Viewing. That said, you can do a lot with other tools.

[Maddod-99]

DIY or DIE, especially in this case.
Here is what I know about D*:

- last to give locals on SD in package
- says their HD locals will be available in 07 via satellite. read: 08?
- I pay for fox sports channels, 99% of which blackout everything but commercials.
- I have petitioned for East Coast channel feeds, which they wont give.
- says 6.2 is "coming", & if you use geological time progression as a reference, maybe they are right!

But its on me, I pay the bill & take it for what it is.
SO, what can I do today to better myself on the 10-250?

Can someone reference me to a fix to input folders myself?
Is there a top 5 list of best fixes we can do to this box & how?
Id love to drop a new processor/s inside to make it faster, but that probably aint going to happen.

Appreciate all of the help & info here, great resource.

CJ

[AbMagFab]

Just a note here:

http://www.wkblog.com/

Weeknees's blog indicates that 6.2 is likely coming (still) to the HR10-250.

I'll believe it when I see it, but according to them this comes from multiple sources.

We've seen dozens of reports of this (since CES last year), but never anything from DirecTV. Until it comes from DirecTV, all current reports, like all past reports, are likely unfounded.

DirecTV has no reason to hold back announcing this, since the only impact is to make their high-end customers happy. Not announcing it hurts them.

Ergo, all "I know someone" reports are BS. It's not gonna happen.

[Rombaldi]

Until it comes from DirecTV, all current reports, like all past reports, are likely unfounded.

Ergo, all "I know someone" reports are BS. It's not gonna happen.So, when did DirecTV say "it's not going to happen".

Which is the bigger BS?

[AbMagFab]

So, when did DirecTV say "it's not going to happen".

Which is the bigger BS?

People don't announce things they aren't doing - that's the most rediculous response I've heard in a while.

DirecTV probably hasn't announced no more updates to UltimateTV, either. Let's start some rumours!

[Rombaldi]

DirecTV probably hasn't announced no more updates to UltimateTV, either. Let's start some rumours!And when's the last time DirecTV sold an UltimateTV eh? I bought a brand new, with warranty HD10-250 last week at BestBuy...

Try again.. anyone says that it may be coming and you dismiss them as BS, however you speak the absolute final word as "it's not happening"... so which is the BS... or do you speak for DirecTV on the record??

[Lee L]

Atthis point, I would probably die of a heart attack if they ever did announce 6.2 for the HR10-250. Sure, it is possible that it might happen, but look at the direction DirecTv is going. It is HD locals and MPEG4 for HDTV, something the HR10-250 does not support. Also, they are coming out with the DirecTv HD DVR, the HR20-250, later this year (they have promised end of Q206, but we'll see) so it just does not seem too likely they will even give 6.2 another minutes thought.

[Chuck_IV]

Ergo, all "I know someone" reports are BS. It's not gonna happen.

You need to say "IMO, it's not gonna happen". Others have their opinion.

[cheer]

DIY or DIE, especially in this case.
Here is what I know about D*:

- last to give locals on SD in package
- says their HD locals will be available in 07 via satellite. read: 08?
Guess it depends on market -- they are available where I live (Chicago area) right now.
- I pay for fox sports channels, 99% of which blackout everything but commercials.Not their fault -- blackout rules are not set by D*.
- I have petitioned for East Coast channel feeds, which they wont give.Not their fault -- talk to the FCC on this one. Are you looking for SD or HD? For HD, you would have to get waivers from your local HD stations. If the stations are O&O, they may well grant them, but otherwise it's pretty unlikely.
- says 6.2 is "coming", & if you use geological time progression as a reference, maybe they are right!Who knows -- maybe Weakness has good information. But at this point I'm not holding my breath.

Then again, 6.2 came on us almost as a surprise for the SD models, so...

Can someone reference me to a fix to input folders myself?
Not possible at this time.

[bronx9]

I have a new 10-250 what will 6.2 do for these tivos?

[Rombaldi]

I have a new 10-250 what will 6.2 do for these tivos?At the very least, speed up the interface/guide and give you folders so you don't have 65 listings for 'One Live to Live' cluttering up the Now Playing' list.

[richierich]

I heard Jesus is going to return also but don't hold your breath on that one either or maybe when he returns he will bring 6.2 with him as a gift to his faithful breathren so you better be good and believe in Jesus or you will not get 6.2.

[SpankyInChicago]

I heard Jesus is going to return also but don't hold your breath on that one either or maybe when he returns he will bring 6.2 with him as a gift to his faithful breathren so you better be good and believe in Jesus or you will not get 6.2.


You won't get 6.2 until Israeli PM Ariel Sharon stops trying to split up the holy land.


:)

[Cubfan]

Need additional evidence that 6.2 is never coming?

Check out Matthew 6.2:

"So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full."

Get it? You've already received your reward in full. They never should have announced it. ;)

[jetsetjoe]

My report from CES 2006...

I approached a DirecTV rep at the CES to discuss the "slowdown" issue on the HR10-250. While talking to me, he spotted another rep and told me she was the real expert on settop box issues and I should talk to her.

First, let me assure you, she was intelligent, and I believe responsbile for settop box design.

I asked her if HR10-250 owners could expect to see a s/w upgrade soon. She looked me in the eye and ABSOLUTELY assured me it is in process. I told her that many HR10-250 owners doubt that to be true, because D* is dumping Tivo, and, moving to MPEG4 anyhow.

She replied that D* currently has "bodies thrown" at getting this issue resolved. She stated that since HD Nationals (ESPNHD, HBOHD, etc) will remain MPEG2 for a LONG LONG time, it is absolutely necessary for D* to resolve this issue for HR10-250 owners. However, she refused to reveal the release date, for the following reason...."D* has OTHER processing and s/w issues with the HR10-250 unit that must be resolved. The "slowdown issue" is being resolved as just one part of that update package. They are working to validate all the issues at one time.

So I now hold my breath with renewed hope.

[AbMagFab]

My report from CES 2006...

I approached a DirecTV rep at the CES to discuss the "slowdown" issue on the HR10-250. While talking to me, he spotted another rep and told me she was the real expert on settop box issues and I should talk to her.

First, let me assure you, she was intelligent, and I believe responsbile for settop box design.

I asked her if HR10-250 owners could expect to see a s/w upgrade soon. She looked me in the eye and ABSOLUTELY assured me it is in process. I told her that many HR10-250 owners doubt that to be true, because D* is dumping Tivo, and, moving to MPEG4 anyhow.

She replied that D* currently has "bodies thrown" at getting this issue resolved. She stated that since HD Nationals (ESPNHD, HBOHD, etc) will remain MPEG2 for a LONG LONG time, it is absolutely necessary for D* to resolve this issue for HR10-250 owners. However, she refused to reveal the release date, for the following reason...."D* has OTHER processing and s/w issues with the HR10-250 unit that must be resolved. The "slowdown issue" is being resolved as just one part of that update package. They are working to validate all the issues at one time.

So I now hold my breath with renewed hope.

You must never talk to sales people in real life.

That was a total blow-off. We already have heard Tivo delivered a software update to DirecTV, and that DirecTV has refused to released it. "In Process" means nothing more than that. Even based on your recount, she made zero committment about releasing it to the public, just that they have it. And other than speed, my HD Tivo is perfect, as are most people's (I still chalk up the bulk of multiple failues a small percentage are having to poor diagnostics, not the HD Tivo.)

Given how often Tivo updates their software for SA boxes, I highly doubt it takes a year to test the HD software.

DirecTV wants to delay/prevent any HD Tivo update until their own HD DVR is out. The worse the HD Tivo looks, the better theirs will look. Plain and simple. They have zero motivation to get this update out. And they won't.

I'll go on record as saying that we will never see this update, or at best, months after they release their own HD DVR (so at best, the end of 2006). And even then, it won't be 6.2, it will be 3.2 with just the speed update - no folders, and no ability to hack HMO/MRV into it.

I'll have two Series 3 SA HD Tivo for OTA HD before DirecTV releases 6.x for the HD Tivo.

[richierich]

AbMagFab, you must be able to read my mind because what you stated is exactly what I think and have said before in this thread. There is no incentive to spend resources on a Tivo product when they need to spend those resources on their own DVR which will directly compete with the HR10-250. If the HR10-250 sucks and has problems, then they can entice those customers to buy the new DVR at a reduced cost with a new 2 year commitment and probably a Total Choice type package or above trading in their HR10-250. If they are going to offer us a deal to trade in a defective HR10-250 in the near future, then why make it work better especially when there are other issues (none that I know of or have heard of).

Also, the software can't be that much different than the SD version which has been out for a year so it doesn't take a ROCKET SCIENTIST to ascertain that IT AIN'T COMING!!!!!

Also, they could release this 6.2 fix now to appease us their most loyal and faithful customers and fix those other ISSUES in the next release, that would be most logical. I have worked in software for 30 years and that is how we would do it.

[Mark Lopez]

DirecTV wants to delay/prevent any HD Tivo update until their own HD DVR is out. The worse the HD Tivo looks, the better theirs will look. Plain and simple. They have zero motivation to get this update out. And they won't.


I'm not sure I really understand the philosophy of this statement. Who are they worried about how Tivo and the new DVR compares? Current Tivo owners or new DVR customers? Neither seems to make any sense. As a new HD DVR customer, most probably never have even seen a HD TiVo and thus it makes no difference. As a current HD Tivo owner, again, what difference does it make? If I am forced to switch to an MPEG4 unit at some point, then that's all there is to it and it doesn't matter. If I am not forced to switch right away (but can) but decide to keep my Tivo for as long as I can, it would make more sense to have it running as good as possible rather than seeing a 'better' unit come out and then DirecTV having to swap the Tivo out, most likely at a loss.

[richierich]

It makes perfect sense to me. Why throw resources at a product that has Tivo on it that will directly compete with their own DVR. It would be better to switch them over to your own DVR where you have complete control of the platform, specs, software, advertising, upgrades and also making it easier for your CSRs to maintain and troubleshoot without having several different products/platforms to figure out in order to help the customer.

[Mark Lopez]

It makes perfect sense to me. Why throw resources at a product that has Tivo on it that will directly compete with their own DVR.

How is it competing? Perhaps if they keep selling Tivos AFTER their own HD unit comes out. But if they did keep selling them, that would be in conflict with your statement. Why continue to sell a product when you want people to buy something else? And if they quit selling HD Tivos, where is the competition? The only people affected would be current HD Tivo users. And as I mentioned, either they will be forced to swap at some point anyway or DirecTV will most likely have to take a loss on a 'voluntary' swap. So, again - where is the competition? To me it seems to make more sense to get as many miles out of the HD Tivo as they can instead of having to subsidize even more hardware.

[richierich]

In their eyes, they are distancing themselves from Tivo so why throw anymore money at a product that they no longer care about because they are about to replace it with their own DVR. Save all of those resources and apply them towards your own DVR.

[Mark Lopez]

...so why throw anymore money at a product that they no longer care about because they are about to replace it with their own DVR. Save all of those resources and apply them towards your own DVR.

Because it's cheaper to dole out an update and reap pure profit from the subs than give away DVRs at a loss? I don't know, maybe it is cheaper to do a swap. I just don't see how, especially if the 'fix' is already done.

[richierich]

I have worked for over 25 Fortune 500 companies as a computer consultant and I have seen them waste money getting rid of good systems that didn't make sense. Someone up top said our direction is to distance ourselves from Tivo and let's move on with out own product/platform/spec/software etc. that we can totally control and quit spending money on a product that is slated to be legacy product. Let's put all of our resources to making OUR PRODUCT the best that is out there so we can better compete with Comcast and others out there in the market place. It always boils down to money.

Are you going to bail because they don't go to 6.2, I doubt it. So they lose nothing and gain those resources that they would spend on Tivo upgrading their software which they can now use on developing their own product. That is how departmental budgets are developed and managed.

[Mark Lopez]

Someone up top said our direction is to distance ourselves from Tivo and let's move on with out own product/platform/spec/software etc. that we can totally control and quit spending money on a product that is slated to be legacy product.

Is that a fact or just speculation on your part? I remember not too long ago when the HD major networks were coming to DirecTV (national feeds) and everyone swore there was no way ABC (or one of networks, I don't recall for sure) was going to happen. And poof, there it was a few weeks later. My point is that you may be right and we will never see any more updates, but given DirecTV's history on doing the unexpected, I would not totally rule it out. And I'm still not convinced that it's not in their best interest $$ wise to do it.

[AbMagFab]

Are you going to bail because they don't go to 6.2, I doubt it. So they lose nothing and gain those resources that they would spend on Tivo upgrading their software which they can now use on developing their own product. That is how departmental budgets are developed and managed.

See, that's where they are guessing wrong. With FIOS/Fiber TV (which is CableCard compatible), and the Series 3 SA HD Tivo, (and the possible 6412 port of Tivo), most of us early adopters will jump ship. Heck, I'll probably jump ship when the Series 3 is available (or 6412 Tivo), even if that means my local Comcast. Then I'll jump from Comcast when FIOS TV is available if Comcast continues to lag (right now they beat out DirecTV on HD).

DirecTV has nothing to retain us anymore. They crippled then dumped Tivo, which had both loyalty and solid functionality. They've compressed and downrezzed HD to the point that it's near DVD-quality, resulting in no-faith responses to the MPEG-4 rollout from most of their high-end customers. They've failed to deliver on new national HD channels year after year (we're now 2+ years after they said they'd double their HD programming, with nothing but UHD and ESPN2 to show for it).

DirecTV is finished with the high-end crowd. And the high-end crowd are the leaders and influencers for the medium- and low-end crowd. It won't be immediate, but DirecTV will be a may-pop provider in the not-too-distant future.

[richierich]

They have lost a lot of credibility because they never share any info with us. They never let us know that they acknowledge a problem and that they are working on it and what the tentative roll-out date will be. How difficult would that be? Keep your best customers happy and informed. You are right about doubling HD and what did we get ESPN-2 HD and UHD, big deal. I hardly ever watch either one because I am not into basketball or whatever they show on ESPN-2 HD. I hardly ever watch UHD. Thank GOD I have OTA HD locals because I don't even care if they come out with their MPEG-4 HD DVR, it will probably have so many bugs that it will take them a couple of years to fix them and guess what. They will not even admit there is a problem, much less let us know when they plan on fixing them.

I can't wait until it comes out so I can watch all of you guys that get it start complaining about it quality and bugs, etc. Maybe I will get one after it has been out a couple of years and they have all the bugs fixed, by then it will be cheap. All you will get with it is HD locals and I get that now for FREE!!!! YAWN!!!!! Do I CARE!!!! NAHHHH!!!!

[SpankyInChicago]

Because it's cheaper to dole out an update and reap pure profit from the subs than give away DVRs at a loss? I don't know, maybe it is cheaper to do a swap. I just don't see how, especially if the 'fix' is already done.

The bottom line is that it all does come down to dollars. I can see it going either way.

There is a lot of incentive for a large company to support the smallest set of products possible, just like most large companies have a small number of standard desktop configurations to make IT support easier. And you raise a good point that a swap out from an HR10-250 to an HR20-250 to fix bugs that could be fixed with a software update to the HR10-250 does seem expensive.

So, what is cheaper? Switchout of X number of HR10-250 to HR20-250 over some period of time where some percentage of those swapouts are partially paid for by the customer (2 year commitments, shipping charges, $99 upgrade fee, etc.) combined with the reduced support expenses for two models? Or is it cheaper to support two models?

If the promises of a free "upgrade" to the HR20-250 are legitimate than they have already made the decision (on the books at least) to eat the upgrade costs. If that is the case, then their would be no reason to support the HR10-250 with software upgrades. Customer calls in with a problem with his HR10-250? Switch him out to the HR20-250.

In the end, whatever is cheaper for DirecTV will win out. I would imagine they have an analyst or two that has looked at this problem from many, many angles, built in risk factors, unknowns, applied weighting to different factors, etc., and came up with an answer. One day we will learn what that answer is.

[SpankyInChicago]

I've had some in-depth conversations about these topics with a couple guys from Abt Electronics' custom install department. These are guys out doing and selling multi-ten and multi-hundred thousand dollar installs and they all talk really poorly about DirecTV now. DirecTV was once a favored product of high end installs, now (in the Chicago market) it is looked down upon as an inferior product. I had a guy out at my house last Friday to ISF calibrate my TV and he said he can't recall the last time DirecTV was part of one of his jobs.

I have to believe that as this word of mouth filters out from Abt's custom install sales and service people to the 300+ sales people on their main floor that these people will start pushing middle and lower end consumers away from DirecTV.

Here in the Chicago market, Comcast sells "cable packages" inside or Best Buy and Circuit City just the same way that DirecTV does. You can sign up for Comcast at Best Buy just like you can sign up for DirecTV. If / when these guys start to get a bad taste in their mouth about DirecTV they are going to push people away.

Pissing off high end customers can backfire. I believe DirecTV is doing that in hopes that they can make it up in volume. I just can't see why Joe Blow in a major market like Chicago would opt for DirecTV on a new install or even on a switch from cable.

I am trying to think why my mom would switch to DirecTV from Comcast. I can think of none.

[Mark Lopez]

DirecTV was once a favored product of high end installs, now (in the Chicago market) it is looked down upon as an inferior product.

I just can't see why Joe Blow in a major market like Chicago would opt for DirecTV on a new install or even on a switch from cable.


The reason may have nothing to do with DirecTV's business practices as much as 'technology'. Before digital cable, nearly all cable sucked. I had never had cable service that didn't have a crappy picture on at least half of the channels. DirecTV however (at the time) could provide a much better picture. But as cable technology advances and deployment costs remain much lower than launching a new satellite, cable was going to become more 'high end' just by it's nature. However, until digital cable makes it's way out to the rural areas (which may be many years away), DirecTV will still be 'high end' in many parts of the country (like here). But I agree, that in a decent cable area, it seems like a no brainer to go that route.

[cheer]

Pissing off high end customers can backfire. I believe DirecTV is doing that in hopes that they can make it up in volume. I just can't see why Joe Blow in a major market like Chicago would opt for DirecTV on a new install or even on a switch from cable.

I am trying to think why my mom would switch to DirecTV from Comcast. I can think of none.
Cost? At least where I am at, for a multiroom system there's no way Comcast comes close in terms of $$$.

Also, as much as we complain here, I can tell you that D*'s customer service is a significant upgrade over the service I got from Comcast, which basically treated me like crap.

The deployment of fiberTV and IPTV will shake things up, I am sure.

[joetoronto]

first of all, directv stopped announcing future plans 2-3 years ago when the launch of a new bird went bad and they ended up holding the bag while they got reamed by everybody in the media and their customers.

since then, they've taken the policy to never announce any major plans.

as far as "hd lite" goes, it wouldn't shock me at all to see them come out with "classic hd" in the near future after everybody else has followed their lead to more hd channels that are compressed.

not only do they have the ability to make the competition follow them but they also have the ability to leave the competition behind when they so desire.

i'm not saying this is what they're going to do, only god knows that but it IS their style.

regarding the 6.2 update, i have a feeling they have had the update ready for months now and that it was going to be used for both the HR10 and the HR20 but they've delayed it because the development of the HR20 hit a few snags.

remember, the HR20 should have been out some time ago now.

as bad as directv is when it comes to customer service, no way, no how they leave existing customers with an HR10 out in the cold, it's just not going to happen.

yes, the directv guide is slow, no doubt about it, it DOES work though.

whenever i hear someone comparing cable to satellite, i stop listening simply because cable is vastly different from provider to provider AND area to area where as satellite is uniform in it's quality no matter where you are.

me, i'd rather stare at a blank wall than watch cable. ;)

[richierich]

I'd rather stare at a blank wall than watch cable. That is so funny!!! I agree that cable sucks in my area. I use the Tivo Guide so the slowness does not affect me that much. I would have liked folders and the restructure of the database to speed up processing. Then they could add the other stuff in a followup release. Why wait until you have everything just right. Give us something for now and we'll be happy while we wait for the next release. Folders would be very nice.

[bigrig]

regarding the 6.2 update, i have a feeling they have had the update ready for months now and that it was going to be used for both the HR10 and the HR20 but they've delayed it because the development of the HR20 hit a few snags.
The NDS DVRs won't use Tivo software.

[joetoronto]

The NDS DVRs won't use Tivo software.

are you saying the update couldn't have software for both, bigrig?

[bigrig]

are you saying the update couldn't have software for both, bigrig?
Mmmm, no... Just that they will have to use different software. I'm not sure on the specifics on how the updates are deployed.

[cheer]

are you saying the update couldn't have software for both, bigrig?
The "6.2 update" for the HR10-250 (if it exists) would not be used at all for the HR20, period, end of story.

[Woodinville]

The "6.2 update" for the HR10-250 (if it exists) would not be used at all for the HR20, period, end of story.

Maybe the update is coming after all, and Weaknees is right. I have copied an email I received from a DTV CSR, in response to my complaints (3 calls, 3 emails) regarding lack of rebate for my HD-10-250, installed on 9/16 and originally submitted on 10/15. As an aside, and hoping for a credit, I couldn't resist complaining of the lack of 6.2 on my HD, while my SD Hughes has it with folders! I don't think I have ever seen info posted on scheduled upgrades. Hope the CSR is correct.


Dear Mr. ******,

Thanks for writing back. I'm so sorry that you have been having these issues with your DVR. I can understand how frustrated you must feel. Thank you for sending your rebate form and paper work back into DIRECTV. Due to the sheer volume of mail we receive each day, some rebate forms are never processed, either we never receive them, or unfortunately, they become lost in the process. I apologize for your inconvenience in having to resend these forms. As soon as we receive these forms, we will process them and issue you your rebate check.

As for your issues with the DVR 6.2 upgrade. Our records show that your receiver is communicating with us. The last callback being on 01/09/2006. I have checked further into this process and how it works. I found that this upgrade will occur on either 03/07/06, or on 03/18/2006 for your receiver. If your receiver does not have complete upgrade by 03/19/06, please contact our advanced technical team, to do this please call 1-800-531-5000 and select the option for technical support. When a customer service representative answers, tell them you want to speak with an advanced technician that deals with DVR/HD issues and you will be transferred to the proper department.

Thanks again for writing; I apologize for the inconvenience and frustration you have experienced in regards to these matters. We appreciate your continued patience and support while we work to correct these issues as quickly as possible.

Sincerely,

*******
DIRECTV Customer Service

>>>>

I have deleted my name and the CSR's name. Interesting that each email was from a different CSR. Of course what do DTV csr names mean? I mailed my rebate forms to Mr. D.V. Richards and Mr. H.D.V. Roberts. :D Oh, and if the update does come thru, I think some credit has to go to the FTC, as I mentioned in my previous email that I had filed a complaint with them.

[bjbyers]

IF my DirecTv HR10-250 does receive the upgrade, does that mean the media options (including Tivotogo) will be abailable to me?? Wasnt sure if Tivo said it would not work with DTV because they were not caught up on releases, or for some political/business challenge which had to be sorted out.
Thanks

[AbMagFab]

Maybe the update is coming after all, and Weaknees is right. I have copied an email I received from a DTV CSR, in response to my complaints (3 calls, 3 emails) regarding lack of rebate for my HD-10-250, installed on 9/16 and originally submitted on 10/15. As an aside, and hoping for a credit, I couldn't resist complaining of the lack of 6.2 on my HD, while my SD Hughes has it with folders! I don't think I have ever seen info posted on scheduled upgrades. Hope the CSR is correct.


Dear Mr. ******,

Thanks for writing back. I'm so sorry that you have been having these issues with your DVR. I can understand how frustrated you must feel. Thank you for sending your rebate form and paper work back into DIRECTV. Due to the sheer volume of mail we receive each day, some rebate forms are never processed, either we never receive them, or unfortunately, they become lost in the process. I apologize for your inconvenience in having to resend these forms. As soon as we receive these forms, we will process them and issue you your rebate check.

As for your issues with the DVR 6.2 upgrade. Our records show that your receiver is communicating with us. The last callback being on 01/09/2006. I have checked further into this process and how it works. I found that this upgrade will occur on either 03/07/06, or on 03/18/2006 for your receiver. If your receiver does not have complete upgrade by 03/19/06, please contact our advanced technical team, to do this please call 1-800-531-5000 and select the option for technical support. When a customer service representative answers, tell them you want to speak with an advanced technician that deals with DVR/HD issues and you will be transferred to the proper department.

Thanks again for writing; I apologize for the inconvenience and frustration you have experienced in regards to these matters. We appreciate your continued patience and support while we work to correct these issues as quickly as possible.

Sincerely,

*******
DIRECTV Customer Service

>>>>

I have deleted my name and the CSR's name. Interesting that each email was from a different CSR. Of course what do DTV csr names mean? I mailed my rebate forms to Mr. D.V. Richards and Mr. H.D.V. Roberts. :D Oh, and if the update does come thru, I think some credit has to go to the FTC, as I mentioned in my previous email that I had filed a complaint with them.

OMG, how many times do CSR's have to be proven completely wrong before people stop posting CSR responses?

Trust me, there isn't an ounce of truth in the above.

[jcricket]

IF my DirecTv HR10-250 does receive the upgrade, does that mean the media options (including Tivotogo) will be abailable to me?? Wasnt sure if Tivo said it would not work with DTV because they were not caught up on releases, or for some political/business challenge which had to be sorted out.
Thanks
Unfortunately, no. You will not get MRV, HMO or TTG with the 6.2 update for your HR10-250. You will get folders in the now-playing screen (as an option) and much improved speed in many operations. Probably some assorted bug fixes. I think that's about it.

From what I've seen of 6.1 on the R10s, the improved speed is worth it by itself. You forget what it's like to not have to wait for everything when all you have is the HR10.

[jasch]

DirecTV wants to delay/prevent any HD Tivo update until their own HD DVR is out. The worse the HD Tivo looks, the better theirs will look. Plain and simple. They have zero motivation to get this update out. And they won't.

If people can sue Apple because of scratches on their iPod Nanos, why can't we sue DirecTV for not keeping the HDTivo DVR up to date with software versions, while all other DTivos were updated 12+ months ago? Specially, with knowledge that the update is being held back.

There must be some kind of protection for the consumer to avoid the comment on the quote above...

[richierich]

I think this is just a nice customer service function that is free for us and not a contractual obligation.

[pkscout]

If people can sue Apple because of scratches on their iPod Nanos, why can't we sue DirecTV for not keeping the HDTivo DVR up to date with software versions, while all other DTivos were updated 12+ months ago? Specially, with knowledge that the update is being held back.

You are free to sue whomever you like in the US. I'm sure there are some attorneys who would love to make money on a class action suit. Of course the lawyers are the only ones who would win. DirecTV would give up a little something and consumers would get even less (probably on the par of one month free of TiVo service from DirecTV).

This argument comes up from time to time. To save time let me summarize both sides.

Side 1: I have a right to all new TiVo features on my DirecTV unit

Side 2: DirecTV never promised any feature upgrades to any of the TiVo units.

I'm sure we will now embark on a 72 page debate of these two sides with absolutely nobody convincing anyone on the other side.

P.S. I think the Nano scratch suit is a piece of garbage, if that gives you any hint which side I tend to fall on with regards to TiVo updates from DirecTV.

[jasch]

What about the speed problems? Doesn't DirecTV has a duty to fix the problems with the current versions? They cannot hide the fact that the problem exists and that it is indeed fixable, as it was demostrated with 6.2 on the other DTivo units.

[jasch]

BTW, I believe the iPod class action suit is stupid, as I believe most of them are. I was just asking if there was any king of legal leverage that could be used besides suing DTV.

[cheer]

What about the speed problems? Doesn't DirecTV has a duty to fix the problems with the current versions? They cannot hide the fact that the problem exists and that it is indeed fixable, as it was demostrated with 6.2 on the other DTivo units.
So long as the current software is functional (which it is -- and spare me the arguments about how it isn't because it's so slow) and so long as DirecTV never promised an update, then I can't imagine what legal argument would apply. (I'm not a lawyer, however, and if some lawyer would like to correct me, by all means do so.)

[LlamaLarry]

The speed issues aren't problems, they are the way the system works and worked when you bought it. That a new feature was added to the 6.x release that improved performance does not make the designed and expected performance of 3.x a bug.

They didn't fix a bug, they added a feature. They get to decide if it is worth the effort to deploy a new software release/feature to any platform. If you think rolling 6.2 "free" for them then you missed all of the threads when it was sent out to the standard def boxes.

[Mark Lopez]

.... issues aren't problems, they are the way the system works and worked when you bought it.

They didn't fix a bug, they added a feature.

Imagine the reaction if those statements were made by or in defense of Microsoft. :)

[LlamaLarry]

Would work the same if someone bought Windows ME and bitched that XP came out and they wanted that for free. Wait, people *do* do that. :)

[AbMagFab]

The speed issues aren't problems, they are the way the system works and worked when you bought it. That a new feature was added to the 6.x release that improved performance does not make the designed and expected performance of 3.x a bug.

They didn't fix a bug, they added a feature. They get to decide if it is worth the effort to deploy a new software release/feature to any platform. If you think rolling 6.2 "free" for them then you missed all of the threads when it was sent out to the standard def boxes.

Wow. Nice revisionist history.

Problem is, DirecTV isn't holding these back due to costs of release, they are holding them back in order to make their own DVR's look better.

Same with the lack of features in the released 6.1/6.2 for the SD DVR's, including HMO and MRV, and now TivoToGo (since the copyright issues clearly weren't the issue, and DirecTV has their own DirecTV2Go).

DirecTV is the bigger fish, and they are stifling innovation to make themselves look better. It's pathetic, but it's one way to make money, and the bulk of their customers won't know the difference.

Fortunately, the Tivo Series 3 will be out soon (likely before the DirecTV MP4 DVR), and FIOS TV is taking over county by county. Heck, at this point, I'd pay Comcast if I could get a Tivo. Whatever is available when the Series 3 is release is where I'm going.

[Juppers]

Wow. Nice revisionist history.

Problem is, DirecTV isn't holding these back due to costs of release, they are holding them back in order to make their own DVR's look better.

Same with the lack of features in the released 6.1/6.2 for the SD DVR's, including HMO and MRV, and now TivoToGo (since the copyright issues clearly weren't the issue, and DirecTV has their own DirecTV2Go).


I don't buy it. These ARE DirecTV's own DVRs. I don't see any other HD DVR available from DTV. I don't see these working with any other provider. They only hurt their new DVRs by poor word of mouth about their current DVRs.

The lack of features with no HMO/MRV in 6.1/6.2 really sounds more like a licensing issue. They didn't want the added cost per unit. They realized they could develop in house the same features and save a bunch of money on licensing since DVRs are becoming mainstream now and no longer a niche product.

[lord-dogbert]

Just talked to advanced support, they advise that the original release for 6.2 for the hr10-250 was 3-9-05 and 3-18-05. Looks like the CSR that wrote that email just changed the date to 06.

I am still being blown off on the petition delivery. Showed up and asked for Public Relations, was told that no one is available to come to the lobby. I guess that i'll just have to mail it to the president's office :-(

[JaserLet]

My neighbor's dentist's secretary overheard her son's friend's uncle say that Dish Network has heard through the grapevine that DirecTV is going to roll out the 6.2 update on May 10, 2004 by renting a time machine from the Rand Corporation.

I'm tired of these rumors and hearsay too. Naturally I too would like the update for my machine and I have signed the petition, encouraged my HR10-using friends to sign the petition, and I call and email DirecTV every week about it as well.

In the past three weeks I have received two emails from DirecTV stating that the update will come soon. In both cases I'm pretty sure the email was a patchwork of cutting-and-pasting as it sounds a little bit like the email posted above and a little bit like the 6.2 blurb on DirecTV's website.

It is my personal opinion that the lack of a 6.2 update is not the result of a conspiracy, but is instead a side effect of DirecTV's priorities. I would wager to bet that the HR10 6.2 update is in the hands of an overworked engineer who is already working 50 hours a week on seven other projects. His manager, as well as the group that oversees the HR10 sales and support, probably see no reason to rush or to even release the update at all. The current software for the HR10 already meets all of the bulleted list items/features that were originally promised, so it's a done deal. Heaven forbid they go beyond the bare minimum.

Good luck delivering the petition. Public Relations and Customer Service is all about putting out fires, they exist to soothe the ruffled feathers of customers and members of the press by issuing quick fixes and canned phrases. If you want any sort of reaction, you're going to have to contact the CEO, President, and/or Chairman of the Board of Directors. They're the only people who can breathe fire down the backs of the appropriate departments in order to stir up some action. Talking to PR and CSR is like pissing in the wind.

[AbMagFab]

I don't buy it. These ARE DirecTV's own DVRs. I don't see any other HD DVR available from DTV. I don't see these working with any other provider. They only hurt their new DVRs by poor word of mouth about their current DVRs.

The lack of features with no HMO/MRV in 6.1/6.2 really sounds more like a licensing issue. They didn't want the added cost per unit. They realized they could develop in house the same features and save a bunch of money on licensing since DVRs are becoming mainstream now and no longer a niche product.

It's not a licensing issue, it's a competitive issue. DirecTV squashed the 6.1/2 feature list 9+ months before their R15 was delivered. And they're doing the same to the HR10 (except that it will end up being 20-36+ months between the original release date of 6.2 for the HR10 and the HR20 non-Tivo HD DVR).

You forget that the Tivo HR10 is still comparable or better to anything else out there. Imagine what it would be like with the full 7.x feature set? (You won't have to imagine long - the Series 3 SA HD Tivo will be out soon.) DirecTV simply couldn't compete with that.

Trust me, this has everything to do with DirecTV trying to save face by making the "old DVR" look old.

The Tivo 3 will be available soon, and DirecTV will lose many of their high-end customers as a result. With the middle-end to follow suit over the following months as a result.

[codespy]

As most will consider me a newbie w/# of posts, hopefully the flaming won't be too bad.
My 10-250 was installed last Thurs AM. Worked fine the entire day. Friday AM woke up, unit would not turn on (fan was running, no buttons worked). Unplugged, then would reboot again and again after 25 mins. 'Cleared & deleted everything' on SAT., and after 10 hours stuck on that screen, even after reboot, an advanced Senior Tech processed to send me a new unit.

I questioned when is 6.2 coming, and here is what he indicated:

'Your talking to the right guy'. He said he was one of many involved in finishing up the final touches of the upgrade itself. The title will be 6.something. In the next couple of weeks, they are sending the upgrade to DTV employees and management's IRD's. As long as they achieve no more than 1% failure rate, they will start sending to customers starting on the east & west coast and working their way inland from both sides.

Timeline I asked: 3-6 months. He said it won't take that long if the failure rate is kept to a minimum. He figures 2 months roughly.

I guess it's a little glimmer of hope. I would say expect it in the next 2 years and if it comes sooner, you guys will be really pleasantly surprised.

HINT: Keep your expectations LOW!

[MarcusInMD]

I hate to burst that bubble. But DirecTV was feeding everyone the same song and dance last April. Employees get the release first then if the failure rate is low customers would start receiving it...blah blah blah. Alot of us figured June, July at the latest. almost 7 months later and they are still saying the same thing.

[JaserLet]

I would have bought that garbage a year ago, but not today. There is no way DirecTV employees will be testing the 6.2 software on the HR10 units so close to the release of the HR20. If anything, they are beta testing the new HR20 machines at home.

I am still very happy with my HR10 and I would buy it again if I was given the opportunity. The 3.x software is still a pleasure to use. Of course I would like the 6.x update, but I really doubt it's going to happen, although I am still pestering DirecTV about the issue with my last glimmers of hope.

What really torques my lugnuts is how DirecTV has pretty much ignored their high-paying HD DVD early adopters. It is my opinion that they are shooting themselves in the foot by treating their first class citizens as third class citizens. They should be helping the early adopters as much as possible, we HR10 users are a small bunch, but wouldn't it be a good idea for DirecTV to give us reason to sing their praise? Instead they have us grumbling and talking about Tivo3+Comcast.

[bpdp379]

I would settle for 3.15x just so I could have logos again...

[AbMagFab]

I would settle for 3.15x just so I could have logos again...

Actually, I think rbautch's script will add logos back.

And no, that CSR long-winded answer is BS. The 6.2 upgrade for the HR10 == the HR20. DirecTV has zero motivation to make the HR10 look any better. They want all of us to go to the HR20.

Too bad (for them) the Tivo Series 3 is coming out, probably before the HR20.

[Lee L]

Hey, one day, when I make a lot of money, I will give you all $1,000.


That statement has about as much chance of coming true as anything regarding 6.2 on the HR10-250. ;)

[codespy]

Why don't we just pitch in and give some money to an 18 year old wizard to write the update. Hell- they're at the age where they know everything anyway!!!!!!!!!

[Mark Lopez]

And no, that CSR long-winded answer is BS.

Just one question - are you going to appologize to everyone for the rantings if it does indeed get released? :)

[jcricket]

While I agree that DirecTV has little motivation to release 6.2 for the HR10, it's not like its release is going to make everyone stick with the HR10 when the HR20 comes out. For a lot of people (me included) OTA is a hassle, and MPG4 locals via satellite will be a big draw of the HR20, even with "folders and faster UI" with my HR10. For the 95% of D*'s customers who haven't upgraded to HD, the HR20 will be what's available, and they'll take it.

My point is that it is arguable whether releasing the upgrade is more or less in D*'s favor. Not releasing it might make the HR20 more attractive to people who have the HR10, but it might make those HR10 owners angry too. Many people on this board are feeling shafted by D*, and would be more likely to look at the HR20 if their HR10s were better supported by D*.

So, it's probably less malice than sheer laziness and other organizational priorities (however misguided). As all of us who work in big corporations know, decisions aren't always made to benefit everyone, but sometimes a narrow set of interests dictated from the top.

[jasch]

Well, that's true. The HR10-250 is dead in a couple of years, when MPEG2 is phased out for HD. The only use for the HR10 would be for SD recording.

[AbMagFab]

My point is that it is arguable whether releasing the upgrade is more or less in D*'s favor. Not releasing it might make the HR20 more attractive to people who have the HR10, but it might make those HR10 owners angry too. Many people on this board are feeling shafted by D*, and would be more likely to look at the HR20 if their HR10s were better supported by D*.

That's everyone's point. DirecTV isn't releasing 6.2 for their own selfish means, however it's at the expense of the HR10 owners (a pretty high overlap with their high-end customers).

Ergo, DirecTV is screwing up (at least in our opinions). And they'll likely lose a bunch of us. What they forget is that we "lead" the middle- and low-end crowd, and while it has a slower rate of change, it changes.

FIOS/Fiber TV is the next "savior" to take over where DirecTV left off a couple years ago. That plus the Tivo Series 3 makes for perfect TV for a while to come.

[JTAnderson]

I was throwing back a few with Rupert Murdoch this weekend and he got pretty drunk. So, I took the opportunity to ask him if 6.2 would ever be released for the HR10-250. He said he hadn't decided yet since he was having so much fun stringing "those suckers" along with the occasional rumor that it was coming. Then he started laughing maniacally, the sky darkened, and it began to thunder. He always scares me when he does that, so I left.

(Don't worry, he calls everyone "those suckers", not just DIRECTV subscribers.)

[fasTLane]

You serious Clark?

[TyroneShoes]

...My point is that it is arguable whether releasing the upgrade is more or less in D*'s favor. Not releasing it might make the HR20 more attractive to people who have the HR10, but it might make those HR10 owners angry too. Many people on this board are feeling shafted by D*, and would be more likely to look at the HR20 if their HR10s were better supported by D*.

So, it's probably less malice than sheer laziness and other organizational priorities (however misguided). As all of us who work in big corporations know, decisions aren't always made to benefit everyone, but sometimes a narrow set of interests dictated from the top.

I pretty much agree. But there is a difference between "feeling" shafted, and "being" shafted. I know nobody wants to hear it, but the HR10 has delivered everything that was promised. There is certainly no obligation to improve a product after it has been bought and delivered. If they DO upgrade it, that's just gravy. Feeling shafted because there is no upgrade on the horizon would just be completely unrealistic, IMHO. If you want to experience feeling shafted, buy a DISH PVR. They can almost guarantee you that feeling.

Adding an update could foster good will, but that must be balanced against the cost, and against how lame the coming replacement PVR might look next to it once the feature set satisfies everyone. I feel that owning a terrific, unparalelled PVR that has an obviously upgradeable feature set is not really a bad place to be. Sure, I want it all, but I want lap dances from Angelina Jolie and Lindsay Lohan, too. No one else in my household is really rooting very strongly for that development to take place.

[pendragn]

Why don't we just pitch in and give some money to an 18 year old wizard to write the update. Hell- they're at the age where they know everything anyway!!!!!!!!!
You joke, but there is an effort at other places to do exactly this. Seems a bit harder in real life than it looks on paper.

tk

[AbMagFab]

I was throwing back a few with Rupert Murdoch this weekend and he got pretty drunk. So, I took the opportunity to ask him if 6.2 would ever be released for the HR10-250. He said he hadn't decided yet since he was having so much fun stringing "those suckers" along with the occasional rumor that it was coming. Then he started laughing maniacally, the sky darkened, and it began to thunder. He always scares me when he does that, so I left.

(Don't worry, he calls everyone "those suckers", not just DIRECTV subscribers.)

Now, this is the most realistic thing in this thread so far...

[GaryD9]

I can't help to add my own post to this long thread...

Before purchasing an HR10-250, I sent email to D* customer support asking about the 6.2 upgrade on that unit. I specifically stated in my email that availability of the 6.2 upgrade is a condition of my upgrading to the HR10-250.

I, of course, got back the canned email stating that the HR10-250 WILL be getting the 6.2 upgrade (which was exactly what I wanted..)

This email is safely tucked away for future use... This is a commitment from D* to me that the HR10-250 will get the 6.x software upgrade. The message also makes it clear that my decision to purchase the HR10-250 is based on that commitment. In other words, until the 6.x software upgrade is available for my unit, D* has NOT fullfilled it's promise to me.

No, I have no intentions of suing D*, etc. However - if D* chooses not to provide an upgrade, that email gives me a legal way to get out of the 2 year contract with them... Yes, there are all kinds of legal issues with that, but the email is enough to give to my state AG for a complaint of fraud...

Honestly, I think D* will be doing the 6.x upgrade for the HR10-250. However, it's a low priority item for them right now. I suspect that (once they get the remaining bugs worked out) the level of support on the 6.2 software is lower than the 3.1 software. On the other hand, I can understand the 6.x software taking longer for them on the HR10's compared with the other DVR's as the HR10's contain additional hardware (ATSC tuners, HD decoders, etc) that the SD units don't have. I wouldn't be surprised if D* is also spending some time with the HR10 6.x software trying to completely take OUT the MRV/HMO code (instead of just disabling it as they did with the SD 6.2 code.)

[bjbyers]

So I signed the petition to get my Commodore 64... excuse me, scratch that, my HR10-250 upgraded... but has anyone thought about filing something at bbb.org or is that idear just silly?

[frankygamer]

I've read several posts and since when is D* writing the code for the DTivo's???? Tivo writes the code right? (based on what DirecTV tells/pays them.) I can't imagine D* even having the source code to modify. For that reason, I don't see how the 6.2 update is draining D* resources (except for the occasional update that goes bad and they have to support over the phone).

D* either has the final SW from Tivo or they have been rejecting Tivo release candidates for over 12 months. Who knows, maybe D* has asked Tivo to get ALL of the HMO/MRV code out of the 6.x SW and Tivo is dragging their feet. And who would blame them. Tivo's future is Series 3 and building on the 7.x SW not kissing D*'s butt.

I still don't think we will see the update..... instead we'll get offered a HR20 and in the mean time just say the "date is yet to be determined". I have several emails promising 6.x on the HR10 and I plan to point to them when I cancel D* when the Series 3 is available. I recently picked up a SA Tivo for the hell of it and I want 7.x not a stripped down 6.x.

DirecTV has been holding features back for years that they are quick to advertise will be available with their new DVR's. I just think its all BS and doesn't sit with me well. The fact that they go so far to call their version of "TivoToGo" to "DirecTVtoGo" just shows their arrogance.

[codespy]

Talked with a CSR today reference my free refurbshed DVR offer. Then I asked about progress of the 6.2 upgrade for the HR10-250. In her system, a note was posted on 1-25-06 regarding the update. The initial upgrades will start on March 7th, 2006 rolling thru March 18th, 2006. She advised if I have not received the update as of March 19th, I should check phone line connections, etc.

A glimmer of hope anyway. Like the rest of you I've been waiting 15+ years for this!

Let the flaming begin.

If the upgrades do happen around this time, and you flamed me, you owe me $10,000 cash for each occurance. No checks please.

[AbMagFab]

Talked with a CSR today reference my free refurbshed DVR offer. Then I asked about progress of the 6.2 upgrade for the HR10-250. In her system, a note was posted on 1-25-06 regarding the update. The initial upgrades will start on March 7th, 2006 rolling thru March 18th, 2006. She advised if I have not received the update as of March 19th, I should check phone line connections, etc.

A glimmer of hope anyway. Like the rest of you I've been waiting 15+ years for this!

Let the flaming begin.

If the upgrades do happen around this time, and you flamed me, you owe me $10,000 cash for each occurance. No checks please.

You have got to be kidding.

I think if you check back enough in this thread, you'll see the same message, but the dates would be 2005. Note the dates - rollout Tuesday through Saturday? Unlikely... Monday through Friday (of 2005) makes more sense. In fact, that might be the dates for 6.2 on the Series 2 (not HD Tivo).

CSR's know absolutely nothing - when will you all get this through your heads?

This is total nonsense, and won't be happening. And when those dates pass, you owe me $10,000 for each day of the rollout that we didn't get an update.

Enough with the reverse-FUD already.

[codespy]

Ouch!!


You have got to be kidding.


Would I lie to you??? I got better things to do rather than drum up BS at 11:00 on a Monday night!

[JaserLet]

The latest rumors suggest that we will indeed be getting a new version. However it will not be 6.2. The actual version will be 2.6. That's right, a downgrade! Among other things, this "new" version will feature a text-mode unix command line interface! No more slow graphical menus! Just set it and forget it!

Tired of "Please Wait"? With 2.6 selecting a program to record will be much faster! Simply type in your TiVo commands!!

directv% tivorec -channel 301 -date 200602141900 -seasonpass add -saveuntil i_delete

It couldn't be easier! USB keyboard sold separately. Void where prohibited.

[joetoronto]

The latest rumors suggest that we will indeed be getting a new version. However it will not be 6.2. The actual version will be 2.6. That's right, a downgrade! Among other things, this "new" version will feature a text-mode unix command line interface! No more slow graphical menus! Just set it and forget it!

Tired of "Please Wait"? With 2.6 selecting a program to record will be much faster! Simply type in your TiVo commands!!

directv% tivorec -channel 301 -date 200602141900 -seasonpass add -saveuntil i_delete

It couldn't be easier! USB keyboard sold separately. Void where prohibited.

huh? :confused:

[SecureTalk]

The latest rumors suggest that we will indeed be getting a new version. However it will not be 6.2. The actual version will be 2.6. That's right, a downgrade! Among other things, this "new" version will feature a text-mode unix command line interface! No more slow graphical menus! Just set it and forget it!

Tired of "Please Wait"? With 2.6 selecting a program to record will be much faster! Simply type in your TiVo commands!!

directv% tivorec -channel 301 -date 200602141900 -seasonpass add -saveuntil i_delete

It couldn't be easier! USB keyboard sold separately. Void where prohibited.

LOL

Some of us power users would like a non-GUI interface. I almost wish this were true. ;)

[AbMagFab]

Ouch!!
Would I lie to you??? I got better things to do rather than drum up BS at 11:00 on a Monday night!

Didn't say you were lying, just amazed you would post something from a clueless CSR.

[cheer]

Some of us power users would like a non-GUI interface. I almost wish this were true. ;)
Coming next: a linux-powered automobile!

The power of linux harnassed to your vehicle! Includes command line for greater precision. Now instead of a vague GUI for control of your vehicle, you'll execute turns like so:

turn -a 37 -d 17 -t 36 -r (see man pages for parameter values)

Mileage: car is very fuel-efficient. In order to achieve this, the car is constructed as a two-seater that employs a virtual back seat. Passengers are swapped in and out as needed.

Common automotive start-up tasks (such as engaging the fuel pump, sending power from the distributor cap to the spark plugs, etc.) are all controlled via startup scripts in /etc/rc.d. Anyone familiar with linux can tweak to their hearts' content!

Accessories for the car (audio systems, additional air bags, etc.) will be available. Some can be added via apt-get, but others will have to be compiled from source, particularly if the model car you've chosen uses a different architecture.

For the commercial market, IBM will be producing their own linux-powered vehicle. Expected list price is $186,000.

--chris

[andrewket]

So I must admit I haven't been watching the forum lately; lately defined as the past year. I've just been too busy.

However, my HR10-250 has been getting slower and slower, and just now to the point that I paused an HD program (24) and when I tried to resume it just hung. It was recording something else in the background at the time. I tried everything but ultimately had to pull the power (thereby losing whatever it was recording.) It came back up OK and I'm back to watching 24, but... clearly there are issues with this thing.

So I jumped on here and I knew I would either find 1) Many other people with the same issues, or 2) A fix. Unfortunately it looks like its #1 :(

The speed increase on 6.x on the HDVR2's was amazing. I would HOPE, pray, etc., that DTV sends a 6.x upgrade for these units, but I'm not holding my breath.

ARGGGGH!! I paid $1k for this thing!

-A

[SecureTalk]

Coming next: a linux-powered automobile!

The power of linux harnassed to your vehicle! Includes command line for greater precision. Now instead of a vague GUI for control of your vehicle, you'll execute turns like so:

turn -a 37 -d 17 -t 36 -r (see man pages for parameter values)

Mileage: car is very fuel-efficient. In order to achieve this, the car is constructed as a two-seater that employs a virtual back seat. Passengers are swapped in and out as needed.

Common automotive start-up tasks (such as engaging the fuel pump, sending power from the distributor cap to the spark plugs, etc.) are all controlled via startup scripts in /etc/rc.d. Anyone familiar with linux can tweak to their hearts' content!

Accessories for the car (audio systems, additional air bags, etc.) will be available. Some can be added via apt-get, but others will have to be compiled from source, particularly if the model car you've chosen uses a different architecture.

For the commercial market, IBM will be producing their own linux-powered vehicle. Expected list price is $186,000.

--chris


Your post sounds like a good article for " The Onion" http://www.theonion.com/content/science

TiVo specific Onion Article
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/26909

I like your thinking :)

Seriously, it would be nice if TiVo had command line support as an option, through a networked PC or UNIX workstation. I actually do some control functions via the command line (TELNET) on my two T-60s that are connected to my LAN, via Ethernet. The commands I came up with as well as some done through software contributed from other forum members, let me do functions and not interfere with the program playing on the TV. I can schedule shows, undelete shows ...etc... that would normally have a 'Please Wait' message for 5 minutes on the screen.

[lord-dogbert]

Well the petition is at 714 signatures. CRG advises that they have nothing showing via a search for ANY software updates for any Tivo units.

As for delivery of the petition I am closer; after going to the office and waiting for an hour I left my card and was contacted the next day by a PR person. We have been playing a phone tag game but she is interested in meeting me.

If this pans out at least i'll get some sun shine blown up my rear but i'll feel better that I delivered it.

[fastep]

I added moto6412 (comcast) to my hr10-250s and lately find myself recording everything to the moto just because I HATE the "please wait" message. The only problem is the moto only has a 120gb hd (not enough). You know, if it wasnt for the SLOWNESS of HDtivo, I probably would have never thought of switching back to cable (and eventually I will leave DTV completely when my 1 year special price expires with comcast). By then im sure comcast will offer a larger hd or tivoIII and verizon fios will also offer more \ better pq with larger capacity.

By sitting on their hands DTV is going to lose their best customers! Pretty DUMB business plan if you ask me.....

[lord-dogbert]

I finally got hold of her, she asked that I not post name or extension so I wont. I will be printing out the updated petition tonight and will close it to new signatures now that I have solid traction with DTV's corporate. :D

As expected she doesn't know anything about the technology side but will act as an advocate for us. I told her that 714 users over the past few months from basically one forum indicates a dissatisfaction with the product. She agrees that there is something wrong since this many customers are not happy.

We'll see where this goes but at least i'm happier now.

[lord-dogbert]

By sitting on their hands DTV is going to lose their best customers! Pretty DUMB business plan if you ask me.....


Sign the petition today as i'm closing it tonight, you'll be # 715.

[bigrig]

I signed the petition. I also went to www.planetfeedback.com I had used them in the past to complain to Verizon Wireless. The complaint went to someone in the CEO's office and I got a quick response. Unfortunately the site is down at the moment "while it gears up for an exciting re-launch". I'll keep checking back and will post when it's up again. That would be a good backup method to signing the petition.
Looks like planetfeedback is back again.

I submitted the following:

"The Standard Definition (SD) DVRs have received the Tivo 6.2 software upgrade, which provides a faster, more responsive user interface, and groups recorded TV shows into folders in the "Now Playing List".

The HR10-250 High Definition (HD) DVR that DirecTV currently uses has not received the 6.2 software upgrade, but it is definitely needed. After instructing the DVR to record a certain program, it can take over 5 minutes before the DVR will respond to other commands. Scrolling through the channel guide, it can take ~10 seconds for the program information to load. And with a 250GB hard-drive, there can be hundreds of TV shows in the Now Playing List, so arranging them into folders would be a big help.

The HR10-250 is DirecTV's most advanced (and expensive) DVR, so I believe the 6.2 software update should be provided to customers that have purchased this unit."

Matt

[joetoronto]

Sign the petition today as i'm closing it tonight, you'll be # 715.

where's the petition?

[lord-dogbert]

http://www.ipetitions.com/campaigns/hr10-250_6.2_update/


I have early morning work to do Wednesday so off to bed early tonight and i'll compile everything Wednesday morning at 6. I am actually going to ship the package to my contact and then meet her when she has answers. I'll post the tracking # tomorrow. :)

[lord-dogbert]

Looks like planetfeedback is back again.

I submitted the following:



Hi,

Did you include a link to the petition:
http://www.ipetitions.com/campaigns/hr10-250_6.2_update/

Meesa thinkin that if numbers are still coming in now that we have planetfeedback that i'll wait for Monday. I'll monitor and advise.

[PJO1966]

Looks like planetfeedback is back again.

I submitted the following:

"The Standard Definition (SD) DVRs have received the Tivo 6.2 software upgrade, which provides a faster, more responsive user interface, and groups recorded TV shows into folders in the "Now Playing List".

The HR10-250 High Definition (HD) DVR that DirecTV currently uses has not received the 6.2 software upgrade, but it is definitely needed. After instructing the DVR to record a certain program, it can take over 5 minutes before the DVR will respond to other commands. Scrolling through the channel guide, it can take ~10 seconds for the program information to load. And with a 250GB hard-drive, there can be hundreds of TV shows in the Now Playing List, so arranging them into folders would be a big help.

The HR10-250 is DirecTV's most advanced (and expensive) DVR, so I believe the 6.2 software update should be provided to customers that have purchased this unit."

Matt


Thanks for posting this. I had completely forgotten about my pledge to keep up with planetfeedback.

[bigrig]

Did you include a link to the petition:
http://www.ipetitions.com/campaigns/hr10-250_6.2_update/

Meesa thinkin that if numbers are still coming in now that we have planetfeedback that i'll wait for Monday. I'll monitor and advise.
No...I actually didn't post my letter publicly. I wasn't sure if it was going to contain my contact information. :o

Also, I'm not sure how many people at that website would share our specific concern. I just gave it a shot as PJO1966 said it had been effective for him before.

Matt

[txfeinbergs]

Added my name to the petition.

[joetoronto]

Added my name to the petition.

me too. :)

[vid53]

Well I just had my question answered by directv about the 6.2 update.
"We have no plans at this time for an upgrade for the HR10-250. But make sure to keep your DVR plugged to a phone line for any future decisions".

Im so glad we all own the HR10-250 DVRs and are locked in to 2 years of wedded bliss with directv, aren't you?

Vid53

[codespy]

Too bad Capitol One doesn't provide satellite service. :D <No Hassles>

[joetoronto]

Well I just had my question answered by directv about the 6.2 update.
"We have no plans at this time for an upgrade for the HR10-250. But make sure to keep your DVR plugged to a phone line for any future decisions".

Im so glad we all own the HR10-250 DVRs and are locked in to 2 years of wedded bliss with directv, aren't you?

Vid53

and to top it off, he gives you the ole "make sure you keep it plugged into a phone line" bullcrap. :rolleyes:

[kcmike]

Added my name to the petition.

Added my name also.

[Lee L]

Not sure why I keep checking this, other to maybe reinforce my belief that in some, hope springs eternal. ;)

[bigrig]

Not sure why I keep checking this, other to maybe reinforce my belief that in some, hope springs eternal. ;)
Heh...well, the more people we get pushing this issue, the more likely it is to happen. For whatever that is worth.

Matt

[pkscout]

Heh...well, the more people we get pushing this issue, the more likely it is to happen. For whatever that is worth.


Actually, I think if every single HD-250 owner signed every petition, threatened to leave, and then actually did leave it would make no discerable difference to DirecTV.

[HogarthNH]

Actually, I think if every single HD-250 owner signed every petition, threatened to leave, and then actually did leave it would make no discerable difference to DirecTV.

Quoted for truth.

[rminsk]

Actually, I think if every single HD-250 owner signed every petition, threatened to leave, and then actually did leave it would make no discerable difference to DirecTV.Actually it would... it would make the change to there in-house MPEG-4 DVR that much easier.

[codespy]

Conclusion after a previous post:

Dear Codespy,

Thanks for writing us back. I would like to apologize for any confusion and disappointment this issue may have caused. Please be informed that a software upgrade for HR10-250 receivers did take place on March 7 of last year. This had taken place to fix some technical problems with the certain type of receiver.

As for the 6.2 upgrade which will add the option for grouping (folders) and for other features to load faster, we are yet to set a schedule. Click over to /http://directv.com/see/landing/dvr_upgrade.html to check for updates or for further information.

Should you have any other concerns, please feel free to write back or call us at 1-531-5000 and our Customer Service Representatives will be happy to assist you.

Thanks again for writing and for giving us the chance to respond to your concerns.

Sincerely,

xxxxxxxx
DIRECTV Customer Service :down:

I guess we'll keep the petition going. :mad:

[drewcipher]

That website hasn't been changed since Feb of '05. Also, it says the HR10-250 won't be getting it.

[sdchrgrboy]

That website hasn't been changed since Feb of '05. Also, it says the HR10-250 won't be getting it.
Actually is says at this time. Big difference than won't be getting it. Check your facts first.
No. DIRECTV DVR models SONY SAT-T60, PHILIPS DSR6000R, HUGHES GXCEBOT and HR10-250 will not receive the 6.2 software upgrade at this time.

[bidger]

Well, the fact that they group the HR10-250 in with all the S1 D-TiVos, which will never get 6.2, isn't exactly a great sign.

[drewcipher]

Actually is says at this time. Big difference than won't be getting it. Check your facts first.
No. DIRECTV DVR models SONY SAT-T60, PHILIPS DSR6000R, HUGHES GXCEBOT and HR10-250 will not receive the 6.2 software upgrade at this time.


My point was, even with all the phone calls and letters written, they still haven't bothered to update that page in over a year. Does not look good for us. They might do it eventually. I don't know why they would hold it back. They make the majority of their money on subscription, not hardware, so it shouldn't matter what we use, or what they sell from a money standpoint.

[pkscout]

Actually is says at this time. Big difference than won't be getting it. Check your facts first.
No. DIRECTV DVR models SONY SAT-T60, PHILIPS DSR6000R, HUGHES GXCEBOT and HR10-250 will not receive the 6.2 software upgrade at this time.

Man, I want to live in your fantasy world. It has been basically a year since 6.2 was rolled out to the SD units. If 6.2 was coming for the HD units it would be here. It isn't, and it won't ever be. Or rather DirecTV has likely defined "in the future" to mean the year 200000002. Please let us know in 200000002 how the 6.2 upgrade works for you.

:rolleyes:

[lord-dogbert]

Well,

The petition has more steam, here's the stats:

Total number 797
Total number today 13
Total number within last week 94


I'm trying to decide when to close it, I want more numbers but I also want resolution. I was thinking about closing it Sunday night and mailing Monday morning. I still have to finish writing the accompanying letter as well.

[PJO1966]

Well,

The petition has more steam, here's the stats:

Total number 797
Total number today 13
Total number within last week 94


I'm trying to decide when to close it, I want more numbers but I also want resolution. I was thinking about closing it Sunday night and mailing Monday morning. I still have to finish writing the accompanying letter as well.


See if there's any way you can get it to 1000. Are there any other forums you can post in?

[nrc]

I doubt that we'll ever get 6.2 unless DTV needs an update to fix something and Tivo convinces them to use 6.2 as basis for the fix.

[sdchrgrboy]

Man, I want to live in your fantasy world. It has been basically a year since 6.2 was rolled out to the SD units. If 6.2 was coming for the HD units it would be here. It isn't, and it won't ever be. Or rather DirecTV has likely defined "in the future" to mean the year 200000002. Please let us know in 200000002 how the 6.2 upgrade works for you.

:rolleyes:
Well I have a letter from D* that says it will get it. I will wait until the new cable card tivo comes out and if by then they still haven't been upgraded I will drop D* and screw their 2 yr committment. I can get out of the contract because they haven't held up to theirs.

[codespy]

Well I have a letter from D* that says it will get it. I will wait until the new cable card tivo comes out and if by then they still haven't been upgraded I will drop D* and screw their 2 yr committment. I can get out of the contract because they haven't held up to theirs.

OK, at least duplicate the contents of the letter for all to see. We have people on the verge of suicide here.

Also, I petitioned. To all others- lets go and do the same. What do we have to lose? Maybe Rupert will read it late some night before he goes to bed and really feel guilty that we are being shafted. Or not.

[SecureTalk]

Well I have a letter from D* that says it will get it. I will wait until the new cable card tivo comes out and if by then they still haven't been upgraded I will drop D* and screw their 2 yr committment. I can get out of the contract because they haven't held up to theirs.

I keep seeing people refer to D* not providing 6.2 as being breach of contract. I never remember D* promising 6.2. As much as I would like to see us get it. Wishing is not enough to make it true.

Is there a link or some where where I can see where D* promised we would get the update. I'll beat the drum also, once I can see something in writing. You know the old saying 'seeing is believing'.

[lord-dogbert]

See if there's any way you can get it to 1000. Are there any other forums you can post in?


I posted on DDB awhile ago and no one ever responded to the thread. I'll start a dedicated thread again here and on DDB. I sent an email to PVRblog and they never responded. I can't think of anywhere else to post. If you guys know places to post then tell them. I just checked and we're at 814. Since my contact knows that we were at 713 Tuesday afternoon it would impress her that another 287 signed in a few days :-).

Please don't sign twice just to drive the number up, I have to clean up the CSV file before submitting.

[BillyT2002]

I think it's time for all 800 of us petition signers to spend a week overflowing the DirecTV forums.directv.com web site with requests for 6.2 on the HR10-250. Heck while we're at it let's also overflow that site with requests for an update to add HMO too. If we're annoying enough, maybe they'll cave. Best to always be polite and annoying at the same time though. ;) Passive agressive is the way to go.

If nothing else - they'll want to shut us up because they really would rather have people discussing the R15 and non-TIVO DVRs up there than have a bunch of TIVO people.

[joetoronto]

i just emailed the petition along with an explanation to my buddy who's a middle manager at directv.

i asked him to give it to the right person.

it can't hurt.

[PJO1966]

I posted on DDB awhile ago and no one ever responded to the thread. I'll start a dedicated thread again here and on DDB. I sent an email to PVRblog and they never responded. I can't think of anywhere else to post. If you guys know places to post then tell them. I just checked and we're at 814. Since my contact knows that we were at 713 Tuesday afternoon it would impress her that another 287 signed in a few days :-).

Please don't sign twice just to drive the number up, I have to clean up the CSV file before submitting.


how about avsforum?

[frankygamer]

I keep seeing people refer to D* not providing 6.2 as being breach of contract. I never remember D* promising 6.2. As much as I would like to see us get it. Wishing is not enough to make it true.

Is there a link or some where where I can see where D* promised we would get the update. I'll beat the drum also, once I can see something in writing. You know the old saying 'seeing is believing'.
D* promised me 6.2 multiple times. Have it documented in (several ) emails. May not be legal breach of contract but misleading/deceitful/lie, yes!

[sdchrgrboy]

I keep seeing people refer to D* not providing 6.2 as being breach of contract. I never remember D* promising 6.2. As much as I would like to see us get it. Wishing is not enough to make it true.

Is there a link or some where where I can see where D* promised we would get the update. I'll beat the drum also, once I can see something in writing. You know the old saying 'seeing is believing'.
Here's part of the email I received on 10/22/05:

Thank you for writing. We are sorry to hear of your frustration regarding your HR10-250 receiver. The DIRECTV DVR 6.2 upgrade will enhance your DVR experience by making the navigation faster and giving you new ways to organize and search for programs. The HD-DVR (DIRECTV HR10-250) will get this upgrade, but the date has yet to be determined . To find out more, please visit our web site at directv.com/dvr62upgrade.

In addition, I understand your concern about how our transition to MPEG-4 transmission will affect any MPEG-2 equipment you may have. Let me reassure you that most customers will be able to use their MPEG-2 equipment for quite some time.

At this time, our current HD programming will continue to be broadcast using the MPEG-2 standard; MPEG-4 technology will be used only to provide local HD programming in select cities. (Atlanta, Boston, Chicago, Dallas, Detroit, Houston, Los Angeles, New York, Philadelphia, San Francisco, Tampa and Washington, D.C. are expected to launch this year, with more to be added throughout the next year.)

[TyroneShoes]

That statement seems to be saying that any non-LIL station they add in HD will be MPEG2.

[lord-dogbert]

WOW

Almost there:
Total number 895
Total number today 93
Total number within last week 193

Excellent repsonse now, hoping for 1k which is symbolic for what some of us paid for the box. I wonder how many HR10-250's are in service? Probably 4-5000 max due to price and HD not in the main stream. If we hit 1k then we have a significant percntage of customers who signed the petition.

Some companies take action with 10 percent unhappiness rating. We've doubled that rate at 5000 boxes in service.

[MeStinkBAD]

I jest recently got a HR10-250 and was pretty shocked it was still using the 3.1.5 software. Really hurts it IMO. To be honest I think my HDVR2 is the better DVR thanks to it's version 6.2 software. I'm used to having groups and other conviences with the 6.2 update that are left out of the HR10-250.

Where is this petition to sign? I really kinda need that update. Honestly I don't think it'll do much good but it's worth a shot anyhow.

[lord-dogbert]

We are #4 on ipetitions: :D

1. Early Retirement for Paramedics - A Public Safety
2. Kern Specific Plan Marginalizes OHV Use
3. Sauvons Titi le Singe de Grez en Bouère !
4. DirecTv to release 6.2 software update for HD Tivo
5. Sysops allowed to take SS from cheaters computer


I also posted to AVSForum as well.

1 & 2 are pretty important, no idea what 3 is.

[vernsh]

Conspiracy theories aside; I believe D* really wants to continue to support the HR10 for the foreseeable future. The mpeg-4 HR20 is still many months away and since they seem to be having major quality problems with the R15, I would suggest that there may still be a lot bugs to be worked out in their new NDS software. http://www.wkblog.com/ and http://www.wkblog.com/2005/12/the_weaknees_r10_r15_compariso.html

I'm assuming the delay in 6.2 implementation is for technical reasons and that we will get the update. Why would they want to tick-off their up-scale customer base? Eventually we will all have go to mpeg-4 if we want more HD content but if we have to buy new receivers and new antennas, why not take a look at DISH or (in my area) Comcast if we feel D* has screwed us over? I'm sure they know they're not the only game in town.

[joetoronto]

i just received this from my buddy who works at directv.....


Hey Joe,

I am glad you sent this to me. I don't know what good it will do, but I will certainly forward this to the marketing group. I already gave them a heads up when Ken posted it, but the signed petition will probably help.

I will let you if I can get more information.



we have a shot, that's all i'm saying.

[codespy]

Thanks Joe, keep us up to date on future developments. It helps when you know someone that works for the big pig.

[joetoronto]

Thanks Joe, keep us up to date on future developments. It helps when you know someone that works for the big pig.

lol, yes it does. :D

[lord-dogbert]

i just received this from my buddy who works at directv.....


Hey Joe,

I am glad you sent this to me. I don't know what good it will do, but I will certainly forward this to the marketing group. I already gave them a heads up when Ken posted it, but the signed petition will probably help.

I will let you if I can get more information.



we have a shot, that's all i'm saying.

Cool, Thanks
I'll PM you my contact, maybe they can work together. Please don't forward her info to anyone else though.

[JaserLet]

I've already signed the petition.

I currently use one HR10-250, one DVR39, and three DVR40's.

If the HR10-250 gets the 6.2 update, I would buy a few to replace the DVR40s for the ASTC HD OTA feature alone. But as it stands, the HR10-250 is just too damn slow after even one month of use. It doesn't feel "that bad" when it's new or after a factory reset, but after a month of use, it sloooows waaaay doooown.

My DVR39/DVR40 boxes still feel fast, and they got the 6.2 update a long time ago, no resets, no cleanups needed. They just work.

[AbMagFab]

i just received this from my buddy who works at directv.....


Hey Joe,

I am glad you sent this to me. I don't know what good it will do, but I will certainly forward this to the marketing group. I already gave them a heads up when Ken posted it, but the signed petition will probably help.

I will let you if I can get more information.



we have a shot, that's all i'm saying.

"I don't know what good it will do"

This is the most accurate information to date. Clearly, they have had no intention of giving us 6.x for the HD Tivo.

I hope this helps some of the other people on this board finally realize it.

[frankygamer]

Here is the most honest answer I've received from D* out of many, many emails and discussions.

Thank you for writing back. I apologize that we were not able to fully
answer your questions. At this time we do not guarantee that "Continued
Support" means that we will keep providing Software updates for your HD-DVR
receiver, however we will continue to support HDTV with the DVR function.
With "Continued Support" that may entail swapping your receiver for a MPEG-4
HD-DVR. I wish that we had more information on HR10-250 TiVo 6.2 upgrade,
however I have not been provided with this information at this time.

[codespy]

Here is the most honest answer I've received from D* out of many, many emails and discussions.

Thank you for writing back. I apologize that we were not able to fully
answer your questions. At this time we do not guarantee that "Continued
Support" means that we will keep providing Software updates for your HD-DVR
receiver, however we will continue to support HDTV with the DVR function.
With "Continued Support" that may entail swapping your receiver for a MPEG-4
HD-DVR. I wish that we had more information on HR10-250 TiVo 6.2 upgrade,
however I have not been provided with this information at this time.

Awww, Man! Thanks a lot. Thats just like getting divorce papers!

[AnnZ]

The R-40 that I got in the TiVo blowout promo. received the 6.2 upgrade last night. I signed the petition for the HR10-250 upgrade. Mine also is veeeerrrryyyy sssllllooooowwww!

[joetoronto]

Cool, Thanks
I'll PM you my contact, maybe they can work together. Please don't forward her info to anyone else though.

no way, of course not, lord-dogbert. ;)

[bocktar]

I just signed the petition, even though I'm resigned to the fact that this is never going to happen. D* needs to make a significant gesture or it's splitsville for me once the Series III hits the streets.

[lord-dogbert]

1015 signatures as of a few moments ago. I already went through the database and cleaned out the dups and the firstname: Directv lastname: Sux entries. We only lost 10 signatures to the wise @sses which is good by me.

Tomorrow night, 2-14-06 at 2000 Pacific I will pull the database one last time and get it ready to send Wednesday morning. I did screen shots of the ipetition home page showing that we were the #3 and #4 top petition during the last weekend. I'm going to send the signatures, screen shots, links to the forums involved and a summary letter.

This has been pretty exciting watching the number of supporters grow, I hope this is all for good.

[joetoronto]

good luck buddy, no one can say you didn't try. ;)

[Wirelezz]

I signed, my wife signed, my kids signed, my dog signed...

Good thing we all have our own email addys! :cool: :rolleyes: ;) :D

[bigrig]

good luck buddy, no one can say you didn't try. ;)
Heh...yeah, thanks for your efforts, Dogbert! :up:

[joetoronto]

I signed, my wife signed, my kids signed, my dog signed...

Good thing we all have our own email addys! :cool: :rolleyes: ;) :D

lol, that's the spirit. :up:

[sotapoppy]

Hey- maybe I should have signed twice since I have 2 HR10s. BTW they are sitting side by side getting along quite well together. In fact, just a couple months ago they gave birth to a new offspring. However, it's a little bit deformed and has already developed some quirky habits. It's name is R15. :p

Thanks for the effort lord-dogbert.

[richierich]

You have to have a different email address each time you sign up so I guess you could use your business email address.

[tomr]

It amazes me a piece of electronics with so many problems is still on the market in its original form. HDMI problems, Picture drop-out, sound pops, slow response from the remote, Painfully slow when setting up a season pass or on-the-fly recording, missed recording at the beginning of the show.

It doesn't take long to develop a list of MAJOR problems. All are well documented here. The problem is what choice do I have. None, zero, ziltch. Charter cable here does not even offer HD. No one else allows to record 2 channels at the same time and watch a third.

My options are very limited. If the new DirecTV HD recorder does not offer any improvement I'm sure I keep using the what I have. 6.2 won't fix all the problems but it certainly would help.

Who the hell knows if we get 6.2. I certainly won't hold my breath.

Very disappointing indeed.

[udecker]

I just got off the phone with a Cust. Service rep, asking about getting the HD network feeds. I asked her about the 6.2 upgrade for the HR10-250. She said at first "I think that's rolling out tonight, actually - hold on." And then said "no, but it will be started in the next few days."

I asked her to verify that this was for the HD DirecTV Tivo, HR10-250, and she said yes, that it was.

Don't know if anything changed, or if she just didn't know what she was talking about - but she did "look it up" while I waited.

I hope the petitions pay off.

[rminsk]

I just got off the phone with a Cust. Service rep, asking about getting the HD network feeds. I asked her about the 6.2 upgrade for the HR10-250. She said at first "I think that's rolling out tonight, actually - hold on." And then said "no, but it will be started in the next few days."

I asked her to verify that this was for the HD DirecTV Tivo, HR10-250, and she said yes, that it was.

Don't know if anything changed, or if she just didn't know what she was talking about - but she did "look it up" while I waited.

I hope the petitions pay off.YOU FOOL! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders. The most famous is never get involved in a land war in Asia, but only slightly less well known is this: 'Never believe a DirecTV CSR when a DirecTiVo is on the line"

Seriously there are several people on this board that have contacts and we would know if it was about to roll out.

[JaserLet]

What the CSR meant is that the 6.2 update is ready to roll... right into the recycle bin.

[codespy]

I just got off the phone with a Cust. Service rep, asking about getting the HD network feeds. I asked her about the 6.2 upgrade for the HR10-250. She said at first "I think that's rolling out tonight, actually - hold on." And then said "no, but it will be started in the next few days."

I asked her to verify that this was for the HD DirecTV Tivo, HR10-250, and she said yes, that it was.


The update is for the H20. Scheduled for release on Feb. 21st, 2006. Should be version X0F06. The current problem apparently when changing channels, there is brief pixellizing that may occur. This software update is supposed to correct that.
There are no new current developments on the 6.2 for the HR10-250.

Again, I've said it before, lets all pool our money together and hire that 16 year-old whiz who knows everything to make the upgrade we all want!

[Digital Video]

We should start a money pool as a prize for getting it working, akin to the Windows on Intel Macs contest. Unfortunately I can't post a link, but you should be able to Google it.

Edit: Also, I just bought the HR10-250 and it will arrive today. After reading this thread, I'm wondering if I should have stuck with my HDVR2 :(

[Lee L]

Well, teh HDVR2 cannot record HD, so if you want that, you are pretty much stuck. It is not that bad if you do not do much live TV watching. However, since the SD models have 6.2 and you can see the speed increase is so dramatic, it makes it all the more tantlizing.

[bbodin]

Edit: Also, I just bought the HR10-250 and it will arrive today. After reading this thread, I'm wondering if I should have stuck with my HDVR2 :(

I just got one myself...only had it a few weeks and I'm not at all disappointed (my HD reciever finally blew and I had to replace it, so chose the HD tivo).

I lived with the SD tivo with the version 3 software for years and it was slow, but I managed just fine with it. I had upgraded to include a larger HDD in that SD tivo as well, so that didn't help speed. Season pass re-arranging was miserable, but the rest of the slowness (guide, moving through the lists, etc.) was manageable and I got used to it. In fact even after 6.2 was released I still had the old version because I thought my modem was blown. Only after my HD tivo came in was I able to succesfully update to 6.2 on the SD tivo (ironic, huh?).

Anyways, the SD tivo is now in the bedroom (and blazing fast with the 6.2 version) and my HD tivo is my main unit in the living room and behaves at the same speed as my SD tivo did for 3 years (faster even since I haven't upgraded the HDD in the HD version yet), so net-net is it functions just as I was used to for the past 3 years except now I can tivo HD :)

Looking at the speed and folders options in my bedroom though, does make me wish I could get that on the HD tivo...especially when I end up upgrading the HDD.

[joetoronto]

Edit: Also, I just bought the HR10-250 and it will arrive today. After reading this thread, I'm wondering if I should have stuck with my HDVR2 :(

not all HR10-250's have problems, Digital Video. remember, you pretty much only hear of the ones that DO have a problem.

mine has been fine but i'm not using the HDMI port, i'm using component. ;)

[tomr]

not all HR10-250's have problems, Digital Video. remember, you pretty much only hear of the ones that DO have a problem.

mine has been fine but i'm not using the HDMI port, i'm using component. ;)


I would disagree. ALL the HR10-250's have the same inherent problems. Slow, Slow, Slow. Channel surfing is agonizing. Start making season passes, filling the hard drive, etc. It WILL slow to a CRAWL when changing, editing, moving season passes.

With the exception of the HDMI hardware problem ALL the problems I have mentioned seem to be software related. OK, maybe faster hardware will help, BUT most of the slow speed has been attributed to the database design.


It's also amazing that a clear and delete takes an hour to perform.

[bbodin]

not all HR10-250's have problems, Digital Video. remember, you pretty much only hear of the ones that DO have a problem.

mine has been fine but i'm not using the HDMI port, i'm using component. ;)


I agree. Only had it a few weeks, but no HDMI problems, no slow remote response problem (though I'm using a universal remote), no picture drops at all for Sat or OTA, and slowness is limited to the "season pass" part (though my recorder is full, my season pass list is relatively small at the moment).

In short, it behaves identical to my SD tivo (version 3 software).

[Lee L]

I have definitely learned to set up season passes when I can do something else and to only change the order when I am going to bed for the night or leaving.

[bbodin]

I would disagree. ALL the HR10-250's have the same inherent problems. Slow, Slow, Slow. Channel surfing is agonizing. Start making season passes, filling the hard drive, etc. It WILL slow to a CRAWL when changing, editing, moving season passes.

With the exception of the HDMI hardware problem ALL the problems I have mentioned seem to be software related. OK, maybe faster hardware will help, BUT most of the slow speed has been attributed to the database design.


It's also amazing that a clear and delete takes an hour to perform.

and I would disagree with you. All of the problems you mentioned with the exception of the slowness, I do NOT have. And the slowness isn't unbearable other than when you add or delete a season pass (which isn't an everyday occurance).

My HDD is full...I don't have a ton of season passes, and I'm very aware that slows things down, but its not any slower than the SD tivos who had the same problem in the version 3 software and I loved that thing for 3 years.

[bigrig]

I would disagree. ALL the HR10-250's have the same inherent problems. Slow, Slow, Slow. Channel surfing is agonizing. Start making season passes, filling the hard drive, etc. It WILL slow to a CRAWL when changing, editing, moving season passes.
Slowness isn't a failure, though, more like an annoyance.

I recommend everyone hack their tivo and use the TivoWeb interface, it can do all of these things without the 10 minute wait. :up: Gunnyman's Zipper (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=265929&page=1&pp=30) is supposed to make it pretty easy.

Matt

[tomr]

My HDD is full...I don't have a ton of season passes, and I'm very aware that slows things down, but its not any slower than the SD tivos who had the same problem in the version 3 software and I loved that thing for 3 years.

The season passes seem to be the key here. If you don't have many then the problems don't seem to exist. I have 32 season passes and over 50 items in the to do list. Some of my season passes have multiple showings i.e. 80 showings in the the upcoming episode list but only 10 may be selected for recording. I also have 2 wish list record all season passes.

I purchased a second 250 to split the recordings up to help things. Right now I only have 5 season passes and it works fine.

The harder the H10 has to sift for recordings and conflicts the slower it gets.

When I have back-to-back recordings on the same channel, SOMETIMES I lose the first 20-30 seconds of the second show. IT seems to mess up only with back-to-back recordings and two shows being recorded at the same time. It has been suggested the H10 is slow to respond because of the activity going on. The same with remote not responding. I will push and push watch the light on the H10 put nothing. Then all of a sudden wham, it's possessed as it carries out the commands.

I don't believe it's a question of IF it has problems but WHEN.

If I had a better option I would have given up a long time ago. Even as agravating this has been, nothing is better. I have no cable option.

[Lee L]

Slowness isn't a failure, though, more like an annoyance.

I recommend everyone hack their tivo and use the TivoWeb interface, it can do all of these things without the 10 minute wait. :up: Gunnyman's Zipper (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=265929&page=1&pp=30) is supposed to make it pretty easy.

Matt

I have thought about it, but what does the interface look like when you use this? IS it some command line shell on a PC, web page? Is it hard to use. There is lots of info on how to do it, but not much on what you get, at least for someone who knows little about what a hacked machine can do already.

[joetoronto]

i only have 4 season passes, 3 by title and on by actor.

sometimes the guide takes a few seconds to completely fill up, sometimes it's immediate, like right now.

i don't let the drive get too full though, i leave no more than 12 HD programs, mostly movies on it.

i've never experienced slowness with the remote.

[bigrig]

I have thought about it, but what does the interface look like when you use this? IS it some command line shell on a PC, web page? Is it hard to use. There is lots of info on how to do it, but not much on what you get, at least for someone who knows little about what a hacked machine can do already.
No, it's a graphical web interface, pretty user friendly.

You can get an idea of how it works here - http://www.keegan.org/jeff/tivo/tivowebsnapshot/ui/index.html

[kimsan]

:up: Gunnyman's Zipper (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=265929&page=1&pp=30) is supposed to make it pretty easy.

Matt

It does indeed make the hack easy. I could never be bothered in the past. Tivoweb is a much more efficient way to change SP lineups.

But putting "Gunnyman's Zipper" and "easy" in the same sentence might just get him attention from a whole different breed of hacker, don't you think? ;)

[kimsan]

I have thought about it, but what does the interface look like when you use this? IS it some command line shell on a PC, web page? Is it hard to use. There is lots of info on how to do it, but not much on what you get, at least for someone who knows little about what a hacked machine can do already.

The Zipper [procedure is pretty straightforward. If you can follow instructions (ever done a drive back or upgrade?) it's not difficult at all.

Tivoweb puts a browser based graphic interface on your PC. THink Tivo peanut plus a whole lot more.

There are other tools you can add to get you add MRV-ish capability, but the specifics are never spelled out on TCF.

If HR10-250s ever get 6.2, enabling HMO/MRV would be a snap as it is now with HDVR2s and others.

[tomr]

Slowness isn't a failure, though, more like an annoyance.

Matt


A very, very fine line. I consider it a programming failure. If you had a database program and had to wait minutes to access data. You would consider it a failure.

[Lee L]

The Zipper [procedure is pretty straightforward. If you can follow instructions (ever done a drive back or upgrade?) it's not difficult at all.

Tivoweb puts a browser based graphic interface on your PC. THink Tivo peanut plus a whole lot more.

There are other tools you can add to get you an MRV-ish capability, but the specifics aren't spelled out on TCF.

If HR10-250s ever get 6.2, enabling HMO/MRV would be a snap as it is now with HDVR2s and others.


Ok, that is what I thought. I added drives to both my SD and HD units and I am quite comfortable with PCs so actually doing it is not a problem. I was just wondering what I got for my effort. Ideally, I would like to do MRV and I was thinking that was not possible with TiVoWeb so I guess I will have to look around the other site some again.

[pdawg17]

It does indeed make the hack easy. I could never be bothered in the past. Tivoweb is a much more efficient way to change SP lineups.

But putting "Gunnyman's Zipper" and "easy" in the same sentence might just get him attention from a whole different breed of hacker, don't you think? ;)

So the zipper works for the HD Tivo too, huh? For some reason I thought it was only for the SD Tivo...

[cheer]

YOU FOOL! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders. The most famous is never get involved in a land war in Asia, but only slightly less well known is this: 'Never believe a DirecTV CSR when a DirecTiVo is on the line"
So then I guess you're saying that it's inconceivable that we'll get the 6.2 update.

[cheer]

I have thought about it, but what does the interface look like when you use this? IS it some command line shell on a PC, web page? Is it hard to use. There is lots of info on how to do it, but not much on what you get, at least for someone who knows little about what a hacked machine can do already.
It's so easy to use that you'll be amazed. Rearranging season passes takes almost no time at all.

If you can use yahoo.com, you can use tivowebplus. And it gives you some nifty features, too -- stuff you don't know you need but you'll never be able to live without once you have it. (Like the poorly-named "recording history" for example -- use mine constantly.)

[JTAnderson]

If its really easy to install the hack, I might be tempted. Does the TiVo support 802.11b (or g) USB adapters with this hack?

[kimsan]

So the zipper works for the HD Tivo too, huh? For some reason I thought it was only for the SD Tivo...

Jump to ~December 05 in the zipper thread. It just took a little longer.

[kimsan]

If its really easy to install the hack, I might be tempted. Does the TiVo support 802.11b (or g) USB adapters with this hack?

USB adapters are supported...no other way out of the box. Wireless requires help. Since 3.1.5 software had no network support at all, native MRV and wireless just don't exist.

That said, you can use and FA-120 USB->ethernet adapter and then go wireless from there.

Plan on reading a bit. Just let me state clearly, networking an HR10-250 is easy via the Zipper and wireless G is do-able *after* networking is turned on. It's just about as easy. If you don't mind what feels like redundant pieces, don't let the added cost bother you, and just stick with recommended pieces, it's also easy.

[GaryD9]

I have a friend who works for the Maryland AG office. I was talking to him about the D* HR10-250, 6.2 upgrades, and HD-Lite. As part of this conversation, I showed him the email I sent to D* which clearly implied a condition of the 6.2 software upgrade on my purchasing that unit, as well as the reply from D* stating that the HR10-250 would be getting that upgrade. As well, I showed him the "stophdlite.com" web site, and the related quoted material from the FCC, FTC, etc.

According this friend (who asked that I not identify him/her) I'd have a VERY easy time of it if I were to send a formal complaint into his/her office, and not only would D* be forced to let me out of any contracts, but that the AG's office would likely open an investigation into D* deceptive marketing, false advertising, and something else (forget the term) having to do with making false promises in order to force a contract to be signed.

While I currently don't plan on such a complaint right now, I might have a change of heart if/when summer comes and goes and there's no 6.2 upgrade. (Most of the HD I watch is OTA...)

Take care
Gary

[tammyandlee]

With the channel not available bug and the slowness I am looking at getting the E*622.
I guess at least I got a couple of years out of this thing. One thing that annoys me is I would swear when I was at CES in Vegas when the HR10-250 was being displayed to the world it had folders.

[aphex187]

6.2 will never come. DirecTV will just force us to upgrade to their HD-DVR. Then in 5 years - none of us will care about the HR10-250 and the 6.2 upgrade. Sad, but true.

[frankygamer]

Hopefully I won't care about 6.2 in 1 year when I'm running 7.x+ on a Series 3.

[GalenMD]

...I'd have a VERY easy time of it if I were to send a formal complaint into his/her office, and not only would D* be forced to let me out of any contracts, ...

With your letter, I'm sure D* would gladly let you out of your contract. In fact, they probably couldn't care less. Good luck in trying to go after them for anything else. Any case such as this would only hold water if they made a blanket announcement to all HD users.

[Redux]

With your letter, I'm sure D* would gladly let you out of your contract. In fact, they probably couldn't care less.I'm sure you're right. DTV's alternative would be to prove their case to our credit card companies, once we dispute the charges. They'll likely just let us go, en masse, with a good riddance, and go on and prosper, for awhile, with their inferior product.

[AbMagFab]

I have a friend who works for the Maryland AG office. I was talking to him about the D* HR10-250, 6.2 upgrades, and HD-Lite. As part of this conversation, I showed him the email I sent to D* which clearly implied a condition of the 6.2 software upgrade on my purchasing that unit, as well as the reply from D* stating that the HR10-250 would be getting that upgrade. As well, I showed him the "stophdlite.com" web site, and the related quoted material from the FCC, FTC, etc.

According this friend (who asked that I not identify him/her) I'd have a VERY easy time of it if I were to send a formal complaint into his/her office, and not only would D* be forced to let me out of any contracts, but that the AG's office would likely open an investigation into D* deceptive marketing, false advertising, and something else (forget the term) having to do with making false promises in order to force a contract to be signed.

While I currently don't plan on such a complaint right now, I might have a change of heart if/when summer comes and goes and there's no 6.2 upgrade. (Most of the HD I watch is OTA...)

Take care
Gary

Why would you bother? I never understand it when people go in, knowing they won't get what they want, and plan to sue/complain later.

How about you just get the HR10-250 now, enjoy it for a while, and then either:
1) Keep it
2) Swap it for the new DirecTV HD DVR
3) Switch to the Tivo Series 3 when it's available
4) Go away and stop creating drama

?

[GaryD9]

Why would you bother? I never understand it when people go in, knowing they won't get what they want, and plan to sue/complain later.I'd only "bother" if 6.2 never appears (within a reasonable time-frame) AND D* refuses to let me out of my contract without penalties. I fully expected, and still expect, 6.2 to appear for the HR10-250. As well, I had no good way to know that D* was crippling HD until AFTER I started paying for it...

[drewcipher]

By the time reasonable time frame comes along and you get around to suing, you will already be out of your contract. They can just keep saying that there are issues and they can not release it. All they have to do is continue to say when it is ready it will be released, even if when they say that the HR10-250 is so obsolete we wont have them anymore.

[Bananfish]

I have a friend who works for the Maryland AG office. I was talking to him about the D* HR10-250, 6.2 upgrades, and HD-Lite. As part of this conversation, I showed him the email I sent to D* which clearly implied a condition of the 6.2 software upgrade on my purchasing that unit, as well as the reply from D* stating that the HR10-250 would be getting that upgrade. As well, I showed him the "stophdlite.com" web site, and the related quoted material from the FCC, FTC, etc.

According this friend (who asked that I not identify him/her) I'd have a VERY easy time of it if I were to send a formal complaint into his/her office, and not only would D* be forced to let me out of any contracts, but that the AG's office would likely open an investigation into D* deceptive marketing, false advertising, and something else (forget the term) having to do with making false promises in order to force a contract to be signed.

While I currently don't plan on such a complaint right now, I might have a change of heart if/when summer comes and goes and there's no 6.2 upgrade. (Most of the HD I watch is OTA...)

Take care
Gary


Your email only "implied" a condition, right, it didn't explicitly state it? And your email didn't include a date certain by which D* was required to provide 6.2, did it? And of course, every day that you continue to use your HR10-250, you continue to build a laches defense and a waiver of condition defense for D* (and possibly some other obscure legal defenses as well - can you say "equitable estoppel?"). Friend or no friend, I'm skeptical that you have a legal leg to stand on, and it gets worse every day.

That said, if you're trying to get out of your commitment at some point, that email might cause D* to allow you to do it. Good luck.

(Is the term you're looking for "fraudulent inducement?")

[joetoronto]

this is getting way too legal for me. :eek:

oh ya, how do you know when a lawyer's lying?















his lips are moving. :D

[rezdog]

Any updates on this?

[sirfergy]

I just got an HDTV and really want the HD TiVo but not if it's still running 3.1. :(

[jasch]

Any updates on this?

Do you really expect any? <grin> Be sure that when (and if) any updates are available you will hear them not only here, but on hundreds of sites...

[Mark Lopez]

I just got an HDTV and really want the HD TiVo but not if it's still running 3.1. :(

And just what (important) feature(s) would a later version give you that would prevent you from enjoying recording HD with 3.1?

[sirfergy]

Hacking to enable MRV. That's the one key feature I need. I guess I could use it only for HD content, but $400 seems like an awful lot just for that.

[jasch]

And just what (important) feature(s) would a later version give you that would prevent you from enjoying recording HD with 3.1?

Well, folders and the new database scheme would be my pick. MRV for SD (or HD content between 250's) would be nice also.

[lord-dogbert]

I've been swamped with my day job and just sent the petitions today. The spreadsheet has a total of 1106 good signatures. I'll advise once she receives everything and what I find out.

Might be dead by then but who knows.

[Juppers]

And just what (important) feature(s) would a later version give you that would prevent you from enjoying recording HD with 3.1?

A guide that loads a single screen in less than 30 to 45 seconds, recordings that don't start late without any reason at all, folders to better organize and find the recordings you want to watch, and hopefully a native passthrough for output format. All but the last one was given to the standard definition tivo based PVRs about a year ago, and native passthrough doesn't apply to them. I don't think the customers that paid up to 1000% more (yes, I said ONE THOUSAND PERCENT more) should not expect the same features and functionality that the lower end sister platform has. Given the financials released the other day, you'd think DTV would want to make what they consider their BEST CUSTOMERS happy. With most of the HR10-250 owners being early adopters and part of that 33% of their customer base that generates 63% of their profit.

Just my 2 cents.

[codespy]

Just ordered a 10-250 for my brother. This retention CSR seemed the sharpest I've ever talked to at DTV. He indicated he has 3 HR10-250's. I questioned the 6.2 upgrade and he said WILL NEVER HAPPEN. DTV and Tivo are so separated that there will be no more upgrades of any sort for Tivo based DTV receivers. Sorry to rain on everyone's parade. Keep expectations low.

[dogdoctor]

Here is the best information that I can gather on the 6.2 upgrade. It is near the bottom. I cannot even begin to fathom the customer service responce to the first letter.

MY Orignal Letter
To whom it may concern:
I have recently purchased the HD Tivo to upgrade my Directv system. I didso knowing that Directv will be phasing out the Tivo in favor of the Directv Plus HD DVR. I think that is unfortunate, especially if you read the Tivo Community Forums - http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=287516 - this is a thread that illustrates that you may seriously loose some HD costomers when the new HDTivo Series 3 comes out with cable cards.
While I know that the Tivo software is in direct competition to the Directv Plus DVR software, I sincerely hope that Directv will continue to support their HD Tivo users as the HR10-250 are great piece of equipment. It would be an extremely good sign of faith, and moral booster of all of those that paid $1000 for their HD Tivos (and those of us that didn't) that Directv would at minimum upgrade the Tivo software and networking abilities. It is one thing to phase out the sales of such Tivo equipment, but to completely abandon their support and operation is a completely separate issue (to which Directv has vowed not to do so).
Many HD Tivo users have heard in through the grapevine that there is a software upgrade in the works. I hope so. The SD Tivos were upgraded and created many happy customers, myself included. I hope that Directv is working on an upgrade for the near future of the hr10-250 (I mean 2-3 months). If Directv doesn't do so by the release of the series 3 cable HDTivo I truely suspect Directv will loose many HD customers - usually the higher paying customers. If Directv does release a Tivo upgrade, there would be an extemely happy number of customers.
I myself don't even have one yet and I am writing this letter in efforts to convey both a feeling of lack of support of very expensive pieces of equipment (felt by many), and in hopes that someone could give a definative response to the release of an update or not. Please forward this email on to technical support if needed.
For a piece of equipment being sold at a starting price of 599 today and increasing to an estimated 799 tomorrow (3/1/06), I would hope that it came with the most current version of software. I am disheartened to hear that it is 3.1, when there is a seriously upgraded version out there at 6.2 for the SD Tivos.
I like Directv and Tivo and the HR10-250 is a great match. I do understand the business aspect and need to move to new DVR platform but I think Directv underestimates the number of people who will leave if Tivo Series 3 comes out before and upgrade in sofware for the HR10-250. Please confirm or deny with technical support the release of an update and if one is to occur, the projected release date.

Their orginal reply
Dear Mr. XXX,

Thanks for writing. While DIRECTV has introduced a new DVR, we will continue to support the DIRECTV DVR with TiVo and standalone TiVo service. If you are using the DIRECTV DVR with TiVo or a TiVo stand alone you can continue using your existing equipment.

Please be informed that the new software (DIRECTV DVR 6.2 upgrade) will be automatically downloaded to your DIRECTV DVR receiver during its nightly phone call, so all you need to do to receive it is to have a land based phone line connected to your DVR (Please Note: some older DVR models may not be able to utilize the new features). To find out more, including if your DVR will be getting the new features, visit our web site at directv.com/dvr62upgrade. The DIRECTV DVR 6.2 upgrade will enhance your DVR experience by making the navigation faster and giving you new ways to organize and search for programs.

Thanks again for writing and stay tuned to DIRECTV.com for the latest news and information about our services.

Sincerely,

Gary
DIRECTV Customer Service

My followup
Gary & Directv Customer Service,

I want to thank you for the quick form letter reply. However, this does not instill confidence to me to believe that you actually read the letters mailed to you from the customers. I specifically stated (see letter below) that I was interested in the knowledge and techical support about a version 6.2 tivo software upgrade for the HR10-250.

If you read the link provided in the form letter from Gary, http://directv.com/see/landing/dvr_upgrade.html, it specifically state near the bottom: " Are all DIRECTV DVRs receiving this upgrade? No. DIRECTV DVR models SONY SAT-T60, PHILIPS DSR6000R, HUGHES GXCEBOT and HR10-250 will not receive the 6.2 software upgrade at this time. " Thus my question posed to Directv once and now again still remains unanswered: will the HR10 ever receive an upgrade to the 6.2 software, and if so when? At this time is a very vague generalization.

I would appreciate a proper response to the letter I originally sent to you and as stated before please contact your technical support department if you do not know the answer.
If a customer puts forth the time to write a polite letter questioning services or upgrades, I would sincerly hope that the company to which the customer is purchasing equipment and services would put forth the time to research the proper reply. I look forward to reading the reply.

And Lastly
Dear Mr. XXX,

Thanks for writing. We sincerely apologize for the miscommunication. For your convenience, let me inform you that the DIRECTV HR10-250 will get the 6.2 software upgrade but the date has yet to be determined.
The new software will be automatically downloaded to your DIRECTV DVR receiver during its nightly phone call, so all you need to do to receive it is to have a land based phone line connected to your DVR (Please Note: some older DVR models may not be able to utilize the new features). To find out more, including if your DVR will be getting the new features, visit our web site at directv.com/dvr62upgrade.

Current models of the DIRECTV DVR do not offer a home media option or have active USB ports. Today, this feature is only available on the TiVo Series 2 standalone models.

You might be interested to know that DIRECTV is launching a new advanced technology system, the DIRECTV Home Media Center. Our new Home Media Center will allow you to share, move and view content from room to room, throughout the house. It will also have DVR functionality and the capability to support both standard-and high-definition signals. We expect to have more information about this new advanced receiver by the end of this year, so please stay tuned to DIRECTV.com for the latest updates.

Thanks again for writing and stay tuned to DIRECTV.com for the latest news and information about our service.

Sincerely,

Arlene
DIRECTV Customer Service

As much as I would like to believe Arlene that there will be a software update, I just don't know how much faith I have. In the end, at the miminum I have an email stating that it will occur, just that we have no set timeline for that upgrade to occur. A fat lot of good that will do me ;)

[joetoronto]

lol, they mentioned the "phone line" even though updates come via the satellite. :rolleyes:

[maharg18]

lol, they mentioned the "phone line" even though updates come via the satellite. :rolleyes:

To be fair, while the update is downloaded via satellite, the update process is initiated by the phone connection.

[frankygamer]

Today

Dear Mr. xyz,

Thank you for writing back. As stated in the previous message, there is no scheduled date for the DIRECTV HR10-250 to receive the 6.2 download. At this time, I have no information regarding plans to provide this upgrade for the HD DVR. As such, we cannot state whether or not it will be provided. I'm sorry for any disappointment, but please stay tuned to DIRECTV.com for the latest news about our service.


October

Dear Mr. xyz,

Thanks for writing. I'm sorry for whatever inconvenience or confusion this
has caused. The HD-DVR (DIRECTV HR10-250) will get upgrade. But the date has
yet to be determined.

Thanks again for writing and we do apologize for the inconvenience. Stay
tuned to DIRECTV.com for more updates and information about our service.

[sirfergy]

DTV has no incentive to provide 6.2. Why would they offer it when they have their own HD DVR coming out soon?

[Juppers]

DTV has no incentive to provide 6.2. Why would they offer it when they have their own HD DVR coming out soon?

Customer satisfaction, longer life of existing equipment to spread out equipment replacement costs which will be extremely high over the next 2 or 3 years. DTV has financial and promotional incentives to provide updated software for the ONLY HD DVR they currently offer.

[drewcipher]

They really have no financial reason not to give it. There unit is not out yet. We will have to switch to their unit someday, or go with some othe MPEG4 unit. It is better for them to make us happy if they can. Personally, it is a race for me. When I see more about FIOS(and it is available), Series 3 is released and does what I want, versus keeping the HR10-250 or switching to D* HD DVR, I will make a choice what I do. IF they don't give me 6.2, then I would have to say that I won't trust their service enough to stay with D*. Honestly, I can get more HD channels elsewhere, and I would love to get rid of DSL and switch back to cable modem. I came to D* for 2 reasons only...TIVO and NFL Sunday ticket, and since D* has added that stupid Superfan thing so I have to pay extra for HD games, even though I pay for HD programming, I believe I will be cancelling that. So there is virtually no reason for me to stay with D* forever, though the 6.2 update would appease me to stay for a couple more years to make sure I get my money's worth out of my HR10s After that, I will reevaluate their software and maybe they can keep me again.

[ydtrack]

Well I have been dealing with a few problems with my HR10-250 and the tech I spoke to last night said the 6.2 software was due to be delivered in March, so I will have to see what happens.

[TyroneShoes]

If we see it, that to me is a vote of confidence in the NDS box. If DTV was not confident about the features and reliability of the NDS box, they would certainly not make the Tivo boxes even better, or the NDS box would look that much worse by comparison.

[codespy]

Continuing on with my previous post, my 'knowledgable' retention boy indicated they did a test run of the 6.2 software to some tech employees with the 10-250. The downloads to the units caused the hard drives to crash. They are focusing on the DTV standalone DVR's now with their own bugs to work out. Maybe he's blowing smoke up my you know what, but maybe he's not.

[Philly Bill]

DTV has no incentive to provide 6.2. Why would they offer it when they have their own HD DVR coming out soon?

They know that eventually - a trickle at first - everyone will switch on their own to the DTV DVR because it will do a lot of things the TIVO one won't.

[jiserrab]

Well I have been dealing with a few problems with my HR10-250 and the tech I spoke to last night said the 6.2 software was due to be delivered in March, so I will have to see what happens.

Yeah they told me that too, March 2005

See my email below to/from D* starting from the bottom with my first correspondence.


Dear Mr. Customer,

Thanks for writing us back. Yes, HR10-250 receivers was upgraded on Mar 7, 2005, however, most get it by Mar 18, 2005. Upgrade usually occurs 2 AM PT daily (after TiVo daily call).

Since your HR10-250 is very slow when trying to schedule recordings and it's difficult to troubleshoot technical issues by email, please call our technical support center and discuss the problem with one of our technical representatives. To reach them, just call 1-800-531-5000 and select the option for technical assistance.

Thanks again for writing and I hope we're able to fix the problem quickly.

Sincerely,

Kristine
DIRECTV Customer Service

---------------------------------------------------------------
Original Message Follows:




I still do not know when or IF the HR10-250 will be getting the 6.2 update.
When will it be getting the update? My HR10-250 is very slow when trying to
schedule recordings and season passes. I spent a lot of money for TWO
HR10-250s and feel its performance is very sub par for such an expensive
piece of electronic equipment.

Thank you,

Customer


_____

From: DIRECTV Customer Service [mailto:directvcustomercare@directv.com]
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 3:32 AM
To: Customer
Subject: HR10-250 [Incident: 050925-002771]




Dear Customer,

Thanks for asking about the new software upgrade to your DIRECTV DVR. The
DIRECTV DVR 6.2 upgrade will enhance your DVR experience by making the
navigation faster and giving you new ways to organize and search for
programs.

The new software will be automatically downloaded to your DIRECTV DVR
receiver during its nightly phone call, so all you need to do to receive it
is to have a land based phone line connected to your DVR (Please Note: some
older DVR models may not be able to utilize the new features). To find out
more, including if your DVR will be getting the new features, visit our web
site at directv.com/dvr62upgrade.

Thanks again for writing and stay tuned to DIRECTV.com for the latest news
and information about our service.

Sincerely,

Bryan
DIRECTV Customer Service







---------------------------------------------------------------
Original Message Follows:




DIRECTV FEEDBACK MESSAGE

Name: Customer,

Status: Prospect

[Account Number: xxxxxxxxxx]

E-mail Address: "Customer"<Customer@email.com>

[Topic Selected: Other]

Subject: HR10-250

Details: I was told the HR10-250 will get the 6.2 software upgrade. Do you
know when that may be? Or when new FASTER equipment will become available
for HD users. The HR10-250 is very, very slow when selecting programs to
record.
Thank you,
Customer

[Lee L]

They know that eventually - a trickle at first - everyone will switch on their own to the DTV DVR because it will do a lot of things the TIVO one won't.


Unfortunately for us, some of those things are - Limit you to 50 season passes until a SW download fixes it one day, miss recodings all the time and need constant rebooting.

There will be some nice features hopefully, but if they can;t get the basics right, it does not bode well for those features.

[codespy]

Yeah they told me that too, March 2005

See my email below to/from D* starting from the bottom with my first correspondence.

The March 7, 2005 date indicated for the upgrade gave us the 3.1.5f. That's it.

[ddruker]

From: "DIRECTV Customer Service" <directvcustomercare@directv.com>
To: ddruker@xxx
Subject: Re: My 2 HD-Tivo's Are Really Slow [Incident: xxx]


Dear Mr. Druker,

Thanks for taking the time to write us and let us know your concerns about your DIRECTV HR10-250 6.2 software upgrade. You are important to us and we certainly value your business. At this time, we are preparing for the 6.2 software upgrade but the date has yet to be determined.

Also, if you encounter a technical problem, please call 1-888-667-7463 and choose the option to speak to a technical assistant.

Thanks again for writing and stay tuned to DIRECTV.com for the latest news and software updates.

Sincerely,

Jim
DIRECTV Customer Service

---------------------------------------------------------------
Original Message Follows:

DIRECTV FEEDBACK MESSAGE

Name: Daniel Druker
Status: Subscriber
[Account Number: xxx]
Email Address: ddruker@xxx
[Topic Selected: Upgrade]
Subject: My 2 HD-Tivo's Are Really Slow

Details: I am frustrated by how slow the guide and scheduling recordings is in my two HD-Tivos. It seems strange to me your most expensive products have the oldest version of your software and the slowest performance of any of your systems.

So my question is when are you going to release the 6.2 software for the HD-Tivo (HR10-250) that fixes this ? And if your answer is "I don't know" - I would ask you how this is possible - I am aware from reading internet forums that you have received 1000's of requests for this upgrade.

I am very surprised about this given that your HD-Tivo customers have to be your highest lifetime value, highest net worth clients - aren't they worth the best possible service to you?

[whsbuss]

Sounds good, but Where's the beef! They have been saying ths for months.

[JohnTivo]

They'll probably keep saying it for months until the HR20 is released. Then they'll say, sorry the HR10 has been replaced by the HR20. There will be no further software updates to the HR10. Please pay us $499 and we'll lease you a HR20. Remember, somebody up there loves you!

[pkscout]

I don't think it's really necessary for everyone to repost the same form letter from DTV. It hasn't changed in like a year. Here's the short version:

6.2 is coming, we [DirecTV] haven't decided when. Maybe around 2042 sometime.

[peiler]

I spoke with (2) 'high level' tech's today regarding this very topic. How I got there was pointless... but here is the 'real' story.

From D*TV: "We are working on the 6.2 version now, but there are issues with the download crashing HD's."

Me: "O.K., given the fact that your own branded HD-DVR is on the way, AND that Tivo and DTV have officially/unofficially parted ways... what does that mean?"

D*TV: "Well, the problem is that we need engineers from BOTH companies to get this to work. I think you can see where the problem is."

Me: "So, what your saying is that the 'teams' are no longer 'working together'? I guess that means your utilizing marketing money to make customers happy until your new unit comes out."

D*TV: "Officially, we are working on it. Reality, well...."

Me: "No chance in hell this get fixed..."

D*TV: "Yeah... that would be pretty much exactly what we expect. Every engineer is focused on the new products, we have not had a update on this product in over 6 months... more like 8 months!"

Bitchen... since I purchased this a month ago with a note on the account that the 6.2 upgrade would happen...

[codespy]

Thanks for the update, but that's what I had detailed in my Feb 28th post. I guess if anything its a little consistency (same info to 2 different customers) from DTV.

Last I checked there's like over 117,000 members on this site. Can't one of you help DTV write this damn thing?

[Runch Machine]

I spoke with (2) 'high level' tech's today regarding this very topic. How I got there was pointless... but here is the 'real' story.

From D*TV: "We are working on the 6.2 version now, but there are issues with the download crashing HD's."

Me: "O.K., given the fact that your own branded HD-DVR is on the way, AND that Tivo and DTV have officially/unofficially parted ways... what does that mean?"

D*TV: "Well, the problem is that we need engineers from BOTH companies to get this to work. I think you can see where the problem is."

Me: "So, what your saying is that the 'teams' are no longer 'working together'? I guess that means your utilizing marketing money to make customers happy until your new unit comes out."

D*TV: "Officially, we are working on it. Reality, well...."

Me: "No chance in hell this get fixed..."

D*TV: "Yeah... that would be pretty much exactly what we expect. Every engineer is focused on the new products, we have not had a update on this product in over 6 months... more like 8 months!"

Bitchen... since I purchased this a month ago with a note on the account that the 6.2 upgrade would happen...

While I belive that this conversation could have taken place, there is NO WAY software can cause a hard drive to have a head crash. There is no command that could be inserted into a program to cause this. It is impossible. Who ever came up with this at Directv is simply making it up.

[codespy]

While I belive that this conversation could have taken place, there is NO WAY software can cause a hard drive to have a head crash. There is no command that could be inserted into a program to cause this. It is impossible. Who ever came up with this at Directv is simply making it up.

I don't think they are referencing a hardware-related crash. Perhaps DTV has not updated virus definitions for the anti-virus software they're using on the cpu that is sending the test runs out to the IRD's. :D

[zalusky]

All I can say is I have 4 tivos, 2 hdvr2, and 2 hr10-250.
I have never had to replace the hard drives on my hdvr2 units and they are at least two years older then my hr10-250 units and run at similar temperatures. I have had to replace the drives twice on each of the hr10-250 units. I also tested the failed drives and found solid errors so its not just corrupted data.

The bottom line is there is something going on here that is wearing them out. I can believe that 6.2 would drive them even harder. Maybe if there was more memory to buffer the drives ???

[codespy]

I'm not a rocket scientist obviously, but is it possible that recording HD content on these drives could help screw them up? I have many other SD receivers of all sizes and have had no problems. When I got my HR10-250 2 months ago, they sent me a replacement almost immediately because it became stuck on the 'Just a few more' screen. Is E* having similar issues with their HD drives? Anyways, just a thought.

[SecureTalk]

I'm not a rocket scientist obviously, but is it possible that recording HD content on these drives could help screw them up? I have many other SD receivers of all sizes and have had no problems. When I got my HR10-250 2 months ago, they sent me a replacement almost immediately because it became stuck on the 'Just a few more' screen. Is E* having similar issues with their HD drives? Anyways, just a thought.

The disks do not know the difference between SD and HD content being recorded. To the hardware there is no difference. The content (data stream) sent from the DirecTV Sats is recorded directly to the hard drives. The difference comes in the decoding of the data once it has been read off the disk. So the answer is the content written and read from the disks has nothing to do with a drive failure.

Also the software (this includes the OS as well as the applications) are not the cause of the hardware failure. Sure the harder the hardware is driven by the software (we are talking hardware that has mechanical components) the more likely a failure will occur sooner rather then later, but there is no guarantee that a drive will fail just because it is used more. Also remember by the nature of a DVR the data streams are being written to the disk and then read wether you are using the DVR or not (unless the DVR is unplugged). The usage does not change that much, wether you are watching live TV, a recoded program or recording two programs while you watch a third.

There are so many factors that come into play in a hard drive failure it could be debated well beyond the scope of this forum. Some of the factors are component quality, quality control during manufacture of the components, of the assembly of the drive, the quality of non-moving parts, like the circuit board, power supply and power regulator. Power spikes coming in to the unit, the DVR being bumped, dropped, mishandled ..etc... Most hard drives have a MTBF rating. This rating is not and exact science. Expecting a drive with a MTBF of 5 years, to fail exactly 5 years of use not a day before or after is bad planning . Rather it is a general life expectancy. Just like life expectancy, you may live to 35 or you live to 120. Who can explain someone who takes care of themselves who dies early and a smoker and a drinker living to 100. Much of the life of a drive is just plain dumb luck.

So if you had two HR10-250s with drive failures does not mean HR10-250s are prone to disk failure. The disks used may have been lower quality [cheap] drives, with lower MTBF ratings. There is nothing inherent in the data being recorded that will cause drive failure.

I don't want this to sound like a contradiction, but the more data packed in to a smaller space leads to a higher potential of data corruption [usualy when low quality parts are used]. Data corruption should not be considered a hard drive crash. Once a hard drive crashes the platters in the drive are physically damaged and the disk can not just be reformatted and reused. Data corruption without hardware damage can often be fixed or ignored. Data corruption may just appear as a glitch in one frame of a program you are watching, or as serious as not allowing the TiVo to fully boot.

My point is that stating the 6.2 version software is causing the drives to crash is just plain wrong. The 6.2 upgrade very well may be corrupting the data to the point that the TiVo is not operational without reloading the OS and TiVo applications, but it is NOT a crash. Although to the vast majority of end users this boils down to the same thing. It is the use of the wrong terms that bothers me sometimes. Like a user calling in to a tech support center and stating their thingie does not work. DirecTV should just tell people the software is corrupting the data and your recorded shows may become corrupted. Not misleading the public stating their equipment is damaged, by the software upgrade.

[bdlucas]

The disks do not know the difference between SD and HD content being recorded.
The data rate for HD is much higher than for SD, which potentially means more disk activity - more data written to the disk, possibly more disk head seeking. In principle this could increase the likelihood of a failure. In reality I doubt if this is the case, but it's at least conceivable.

[cheer]

It's entirely possible that when the D* CSR said "crashes HDs" s/he meant "crashes HD units" (meaning hi-def) as opposed to crashing hard drives.

Alternatively it could be the non-techie's explanation for an OS/software crash. To many people I know, if the computer locks up or the OS won't boot, it's always a "hard drive crash." (In fact, many folks point to the main box (the PC) and call it the "hard drive.")

[the_scotsman]

All I can say is I have 4 tivos, 2 hdvr2, and 2 hr10-250.
I have never had to replace the hard drives on my hdvr2 units and they are at least two years older then my hr10-250 units and run at similar temperatures. I have had to replace the drives twice on each of the hr10-250 units. I also tested the failed drives and found solid errors so its not just corrupted data.

The bottom line is there is something going on here that is wearing them out. I can believe that 6.2 would drive them even harder. Maybe if there was more memory to buffer the drives ???

HD streams contain much more data than SD streams so your HDD is work much harder (~6x) - all the time if you only tune/record HD channels. Rotational wear is the same but the stepper motors for the heads will be worked much harder.


Paul

[alv]

I've wondered if the hard drive failures have to do with subwoofers causing intense vibrations.