Lost - 3/2/05 - Untagged Spoilers [Text View] - Page 2

mqpickles

03-03-2005, 05:40 PM

An individual who is rich may not want to spend the kind of money required to fly private or in first class when coach gets you to the same place at the same time. It is this kind of mentality that got them rich in the first place.
True, but lottery winners tend to be pretty spendthrift. They're not like "self-made men" in that way.

Hurley was wearing a lot of bling and driving a H2 right after winning. My theory is that once he thought the money was cursed (or brought about because of a cursed number), he started living a more modest lifestyle as kind of a penance. He hasn't shown any flashy watch or other jewelry or expensive clothes on the island, or in Australia, or in the hospital, or while visiting his broker.

hefe

03-03-2005, 05:47 PM

Why is that an unreasonable number? Wasn't it a boat full of beans? What's unreasonable is that the guy actually counted them to know that there would be that many...

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but my gut reaction is there is no way to count or document nearly 5 billion beans. And how much space would that take?

How much volume does a bean occupy when pooled with other beans? I'll guess a half a cubic centimeter...I have no idea...

So that many beans of that volume would occupy around 3,200 cubic yards. Or put another way, a square container 45 feet on all sides.

5thcrewman

03-03-2005, 05:52 PM

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but my gut reaction is there is no way to count or document nearly 5 billion beans. And how much space would that take?
Maybe Amazon.com wouldn't fit, but 5 Billion beans? Maybe-
http://berkeley.intel-research.net/bnc/images/15.11.1999/15.11.1999-5.jpg

hefe

03-03-2005, 06:05 PM

Sam and Lenny heard the transmission 16 years ago. Coincidentally, that was how long ago Rousseau changed the trasmission. So those two events had to happen right about the same time.

Perhaps the numbers broadcast only started up a very short time before it was changed. Sam and Lenny had only just started hearing it, and they were on a listening post where that's all they did. But did they also hear Rousseau's broadcast? Lenny must know more.

BrettStah

03-03-2005, 06:09 PM

Sam's wife said that he used the numbers to guess the number of beans in some contest. How would he have done that? If nobody had ever won, which means getting within 10 beans, and he got it exact with the numbers, how did he do that?

If you string them all together, you get 4,815,162,342 which is obviously an unreasonable number, but if you add them together, you get 108. Surely someone would have guessed correctly with so few beans.

Did Sam's wife mention exactly how he used the numbers?

Maybe he grouped some of them together differently than we're thinking he did, and then added or multiplied them together?

If we take 4, 8, 15, 16, 23, and 42 and add them, we get 108 of course. If we multiply them, we get 7,418,880.

But maybe he grouped 48151 together, and added it to 62342, and came up with 110,493, etc.

PJO1966

03-03-2005, 06:10 PM

All she said was he used the numbers. She didn't say how.

Jeeters

03-03-2005, 06:21 PM

I guess it was just me, but I thought that this episode of Lost was a bit over the top and had a different jokey tone than the rest. His mother breaks her ankle, then the house catches on fire, _and then_ the cops falsely arrest him. <----a little over the top.It was definitely jokey; you could tell by the light background music which was sort of wonderfalls-ish.

But it *needed* to be over the top to drive home Hurley's claim that it wasn't just random happenings. He'd try and tell people he thought the numbers were the problem and they'd just reply that bad things happen to everbody. He knew it was more than that, though, because he knew that what was happening was too over the top.

Jeeters

03-03-2005, 06:23 PM

About the hatch/bunker: Why doesn't Locke and Boone dig around it to see how extensive it is? If they can't open it, they could at least try and see if it is indeed a submarine, boat, or just a long, thin capsule/missile.Seeing it last night, that's exactly what I thought they *have* been doing - digging out around it. When we first saw it, it was just a sheet of metal under the dirt under their feet. They've completely dug out the top and we can also see the side of it which is where the numbers are. Looks like they're trying to dig it out now, not necessarily just get into it.

LostMommy

03-03-2005, 06:38 PM

hefe

03-03-2005, 06:41 PM

Fish Man

03-03-2005, 07:50 PM

[QUOTE=Fish Man]The entire line was, in fact:

Well shame on me for assuming that the transcript I've got bookmarked is complete! ;) Now I'll have to watch that again.

I just re-watched the relevant scene of BOTH episodes. The parallel is even more striking than I remembered it. The dialog of both parties involved in the conversation mirrors extremely closely.

From the episode "All The Best Cowboys Have Daddy Issues":

Boone: So, what did you do in the real world, Mr. Locke?

Locke: It's John.

Boone: ...John...?

Locke: Why don't you guess?

Boone: Well, you were either a taxidermist or a hit man.

Locke: [Laughs] [Pause] I was a ... [long pause] regional collections supervisor for a box company.

Boone: [Disbeleiving] A box company??!!

Locke: [Nods] [Quietly, matter of fact] They make boxes.

Boone: Yeah, right!

From "Numbers":

Financial Advisor: Your intrest in orange futures has skyrocketed since those tropical storms in Forida. And: you are now the majority shareholder in a box company in Tustin.

Hurley: [EXACTLY emulating Boone's tone, timing and tambre from above] A box company??!!

FA: [EXACTLY emulating Locke's tone, timing and tambre from above] They make boxes.

It was very nicely done!

The "copy" of one conversation segment to the other was awesome!! :up:

DevdogAZ

03-03-2005, 07:51 PM

So Sam and Lenny were in the service together. Were they serving during a war? What war was going on 16 years ago in the Pacific? Was Sam Australian and Lenny American (Sam's wife was definitely Australian)? If so, then how were they in the same military service together?

Again, no takers on the song Hurley was playing whilst driving? :)

???
Sarah
I didn't think Sam's wife's accent sounded Australian at all. I was trying to figure out where it was from and then she said Sam moved us down here in the middle of nowhere, so I took that to mean they left the US and moved as far away as possible. Didn't she say where the carnival was where he guessed how many beans were in the jar? I don't remember exactly where she said it was, but I have this vague memory of it being in Canada or the Northern U.S.

Jeeters

03-03-2005, 07:58 PM

I didn't think Sam's wife's accent sounded Australian at all.Hmm. She sounded *very* Australian to me. Very strong accent, in fact; I had hard time undestanding her a few times.

DevdogAZ

03-03-2005, 08:03 PM

Hmm. She sounded *very* Australian to me. Very strong accent, in fact; I had hard time undestanding her a few times.
Oh, she definitely had a strong accent. I just didn't think it sounded Australian.

dswallow

03-03-2005, 08:03 PM

How would it look if the president of the company didn't follow that same advice?
It would look typical. :)

hefe

03-03-2005, 09:13 PM

[QUOTE=hefe]

I just re-watched the relevant scene of BOTH episodes. The parallel is even more striking than I remembered it. The dialog of both parties involved in the conversation mirrors extremely closely.

From the episode "All The Best Cowboys Have Daddy Issues":

From "Numbers":

It was very nicely done!

The "copy" of one conversation segment to the other was awesome!! :up:

Almost, but Locke actually says "They made boxes." I thought it was odd the way he used the past tense. Either they don't anymore, or he is just feeling like that life of his is gone.

Hugo's accountant says "They make boxes."

Not a huge difference, but there was a tone in the way Locke said it...

tanstaafl

03-03-2005, 09:43 PM

A handful of responses to earlier posts in no particular order...

Another article about numbers stations (http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_330.html)

A Wrinkle in Time has a lot of interesting concepts. It's supposedly a kids but but has a lot of surprisingly deep subtext. Superficially it's about good aliens, bad aliens and alternate dimensions. Underneath it's about the struggle between good and evil, except in this case evil is represented by conformity and good by individualism.

And tesseracts... can't forget tesseracts...

And a surprising number of very wealthy people fly commercial airlines and fly in coach when they do. I think it is because a lot of wealthy people got to be wealthy by learning how to use money carefully and most of them probably don't consider the premium on first class travel to be worth the investment.

Did anyone get the impression that Locke was hoping to get more information out of Claire than he did?

tanstaafl

03-03-2005, 10:11 PM

Oh yeah, for whoever said they wouldn't know where the island was... The lostaways should be able to get their exact coordinates within a degree or two. All they need is a tiny bit of luck and a functioning calculating device that does trig functions somewhere in Sawyer's pile of salvage.

Let's start with longitude, since that is the easiest. All we need here is someone with a watch set to a known time zone. I suspect that everyone's watch was probably set to either Sydney or Los Angeles time; I'm going to assume they can find one set to LA.

Stick a stick into the sand. Have someone watch its shadow. When the shadow is at its shortest, it is local noon.

Let's say that local noon turns out to be 3:30 pm in LA. That means we are three and a half time zones west of the reference for LA's time zone.

Each time zone represents 15 degrees of longitude. Now, we know that at zero degrees longitude, at Greenwich, the sun is directly overhead at local noon. The LA time zone is 8 time zones west of Greenwich and we are 3 1/2 beyond that, so we are 11 1/2 time zones west of Greenwich. 11 1/2 x 15 = 172.5 so the island is at 172.5 degrees west longitude.

Latitude is a bit trickier; now we need the calculator. Use the same stick, except when the shadow is at its shortest we measure its length. (We don't need to use any particular measurement unit as long as we can measure both the stick and its shadow in that unit.) Take the ratio of the length of the shadow to the length of the stick then take the arctangent of that ratio. That gives us the angle of the sun.

Let's say the shadow is 3 units long and the stick is 8 units long. Arctan(3/8) = 20.5 degrees. So, the sun is 20.5 degrees away from being directly overhead.

Now, the sun is directly above the equator at local noon only on the spring or autum equinoxes. The rest of the time it is drifting north or south until it reaches a maximum of 23.5 degrees away at the winter or summer solstice.

Assume it is four weeks past the autum equinox. That means that at local noon the sun will be roughly (4 / 13) x 23.5 or 7.2 degrees south of the equator. Combine that with the angle we got earlier (which shows how far south of the sun we are) and we know we are around 28 degrees south latitude.

OK, its not GPS precision but this is more or less how navigation was done until only about a century ago. It could certainly get a rescue ship close enough to find them with a fairly short aerial search.

WinBear

03-03-2005, 10:16 PM

Did anyone get the impression that Locke was hoping to get more information out of Claire than he did?

I thought Locke was putting Claire in a position to be able to tell her baby that she helped build the cradle.

hefe

03-03-2005, 10:20 PM

I thought it ws Locke's usual way of knowing what people need and what will make them feel better. She thanked him for giving her something to do, and it was a nice gesture to boot. Did he know it was her birthday beforehand? Don't know, but Locke just has that knack of doing or saying the right thing at the right time.

Amnesia

03-03-2005, 10:44 PM

Let's start with longitude, since that is the easiest.
First off, you're confusing latitude with longitude. Just remember "Latitude is fat-itude". Latitude shows where you are going around the equator, the "fattest" part of the globe.

Let's see---the earth has 24 time zones and it's approximately 25,000 miles around.

That means that each time zone is a little over 1000 miles wide on average.

Your stick-in-the-sand technique might have a chance if everyone knew where LA was in that 1,000 mile window. Is LA towards the east or the west edge of its time zone? I certainly have no idea. What about Sydney? And the 1000 miles is only an average.

Let's say I use your technique using NY as a reference point. I calculate I'm 5000 miles from NY. My buddy uses Chicago as a reference point. He calculate he's 5000 miles from Chicago. Who's right? The two cities are over 700 miles apart.

As for longitude, your suggestion relies upon accurate measurements of distance. I doubt anyone brought a tape measure on their trip. (And forget about the calculator.)

alpacaboy

03-03-2005, 11:42 PM

As for longitude, your suggestion relies upon accurate measurements of distance. I doubt anyone brought a tape measure on their trip. (And forget about the calculator.)
The units of distance don't need to be a standard unit like inches or cm. 1 unit could, for example, be the distance between 2 teeth of a comb. They could probably find something to use as a measuring device/standard.

As for the calculator, I don't think it's that far fetched that someone on the plane had a calculator and/or has one built into a cell phone. Granted, a scientific calculator might not be that common. Or maybe someone like Hurley could just derive the Taylor expansion for arctan or something. Isn't the first derivitive something simple like 1/(1+x^2) or something like that?

As for latitude, you're blocking off resolutions in 1 hr chunks, but they can probably measure it down to 5 min resolution or so to get fractional placement inside the timezone. I'd guess for reference, maybe they could use Greenwich, England as the zero point rather than LA, NYC, Chicago, ...

They might not get super accurate measurements, but I think they can do better than what you're suggesting.

hefe

03-04-2005, 12:27 AM

First off, you're confusing latitude with longitude. Just remember "Latitude is fat-itude". Latitude shows where you are going around the equator, the "fattest" part of the globe.

No he isn't. Longitude marks the degrees to the east and west of the Prime Meridian which runs from N pole to S pole through Greenwich England. Latitude marks the degrees north or south above or below the equator. His method is correct for getting a very crude position, but it wouldn't be of use to the castaways.

The reason it is a crude approximation (he said it wasn't GPS-accurate) is precisely because on the longitude, you don't know what part of the time zone you are in, and on the latitude, the amount the sun shifts north or south from the equinox relative to the date on the calendar is non-linear. You would need to have a chart of the analemma (that figure 8 thing you see on globes) handy to see what the actual angle to the sun is.

Let's say I use your technique using NY as a reference point. I calculate I'm 5000 miles from NY. My buddy uses Chicago as a reference point. He calculate he's 5000 miles from Chicago. Who's right? The two cities are over 700 miles apart.
You couldn't both come up with 5,000 miles. Using Chicago as the reference point means your watch is set to Central time. Using New York means you are set to Eastern time. You have an hour difference built into the base measurement that will result in that 1,000 mile difference. So if your Chicago guy said 5,000 miles, your New York guy would have to say about 6,000.

And anyway, it wouldn't be that useful because if they had a way to transmit their position, they could simply transmit any distress call and be located.

dswallow

03-04-2005, 12:39 AM

No he isn't. Longitude marks the degrees to the east and west of the Prime Meridian which runs from N pole to S pole through Greenwich England. Latitude marks the degrees north or south above or below the equator. His method is correct for getting a very crude position, but it wouldn't be of use to the castaways.

The reason it is a crude approximation (he said it wasn't GPS-accurate) is precisely because on the longitude, you don't know what part of the time zone you are in, and on the latitude, the amount the sun shifts north or south from the equinox relative to the date on the calendar is non-linear. You would need to have a chart of the analemma (that figure 8 thing you see on globes) handy to see what the actual angle to the sun is.

And anyway, it wouldn't be that useful because if they had a way to transmit their position, they could simply transmit any distress call and be located.
It would be useful though in the sense they can record those measurements and take with them on the raft; once they've been found, then things can be compared and evaluated to determine a more accurate position in which to begin the search.

They don't need to determine a latitude and longitude themselves; they need the raw data that would be used to determine it.

hefe

03-04-2005, 12:45 AM

It would be useful though in the sense they can record those measurements and take with them on the raft; once they've been found, then things can be compared and evaluated to determine a more accurate position in which to begin the search.

They don't need to determine a latitude and longitude themselves; they need the raw data that would be used to determine it.

If this were more than a few years ago, I'd agree, but not in the days of satellite tracking and high tech detection equipment. They could tell the people that they hit a land mass, an island. They know the general region of the earth. They know what the flight plan was. Even though they were far off course, they would still not be able to peg their location well enough to narrow the search appreciably.

hefe

03-04-2005, 12:49 AM

They don't need to determine a latitude and longitude themselves; they need the raw data that would be used to determine it.

Let me partially correct myself...yes, with the raw data, if they are sure they had used accurate time and calendar data, they could use that at a later time having access to the proper charts to do a better job.

hefe

03-04-2005, 12:58 AM

Oh, by the way... I can't remember if this was mentioned lately...

We know that the plane was flight 815.

We know that the safe deposit box Kate got was number 815.

But also, when Charlie tried to become a copier salesman for his "girlfriend," he was trying to demonstrate the "awesome speed of the C-815" to some customers.

dswallow

03-04-2005, 01:29 AM

Let me partially correct myself...yes, with the raw data, if they are sure they had used accurate time and calendar data, they could use that at a later time having access to the proper charts to do a better job.
Also remember that with much of the earth photographed from space, and with the island they were on being rather large and with various geological features that are identifiable, they sure should be able to focus searchers in the regions they need to with just the simple raw data described above and the basic knowledge of the pilot having provided info about being X miles off course... it really shouldn't be that difficult for that to happen. And all they really need to do is take those measurements, bring the same watch used to get the time with them, and keep track of the number of days since they took the measurements.

The searchers will also be able to use knowledge of currents and time the raft was drifting and location they were picked up to coordinate the other info.

getbak

03-04-2005, 01:37 AM

The searchers will also be able to use knowledge of currents and time the raft was drifting and location they were picked up to coordinate the other info.

That's what I was thinking. As long as they know how long they've been floating, they should be able to backtrack the ocean currents to determine their starting point.

It doesn't need to be acurate to the foot or anything. I can't imagine that there are that many deserted islands in the middle of the Pacific with radio transmitters on top of a big black rock (assuming that the "Black Rock" is in fact a big black rock).

Of course, what I find amusing is that we're debating how the people who leave on the raft will be able to send the rescue parties back to get the other survivors. I'm sure we all must realize that there is zero chance that the raft will ever leave the island (especially with Michael, Sawyer, and Jin aboard).

MacThor

03-04-2005, 02:21 AM

So all these tricks should work on an island where north isn't really north?

dswallow

03-04-2005, 02:27 AM

So all these tricks should work on an island where north isn't really north?
Considering none of these "tricks" depend upon magnetic readings...

GadgetFreak

03-04-2005, 03:42 AM

If the raft makes it... the fact that they know they were 1000 miles off course should help. The original flight plan will be on file. Did the pilot tell them which direction before he got skinned?

scooterboy

03-04-2005, 08:20 AM

It must be the same box company. They made such a point about mentioning it...

mitchb2

03-04-2005, 08:29 AM

Man ABC really wants us to watch Blind Justice.

LOL! NO KIDDING! I've never seen so many promos for a show.

mask2343

03-04-2005, 08:31 AM

How many blind lawyer, police officer, detective, samauri, etc. shows have to fail before people figure out it is a STUPID idea?

Then again, I thought LOST was a stupid idea.

cheesesteak

03-04-2005, 08:32 AM

mask2343

03-04-2005, 08:49 AM

hefe

03-04-2005, 09:04 AM

bdlucas

03-04-2005, 09:12 AM

Here's something in common with the numbers from Lost: retired New York Yankees numbers.

4 - Lou Gherig
8 - Yogi Berra
15 - Thurman Munson
16 - Whitey Ford
23 - Don Mattingly
42 - Jackie Robinson (retired by all clubs)

I win! :)

Sounds promising, but you don't win :) until you can explain whay those six numbers of the fifteen numbers the Yankees have retired (http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/nyy/history/retired_numbers.jsp)...

Fish Man

03-04-2005, 09:18 AM

Considering none of these "tricks" depend upon magnetic readings...

Still, the fact that compasses "don't work" on the island worries me.

Suppose the raft makes it to a ship, inhabited land, or whatever. A search party is sent.

What if the compasses on the search craft go wonky when they approach the island?

Well, they still have GPS right? As weird as the island is, I'll bet GPS goes on the fritz in its vicinity too. (IMHO it would be cool if in one episode they have the castaways find a GPS unit in the luggage and have the GPS unit show they're in downtown Cleveland or something! It would tie in well with the island "magically" disabling compasses. It disables GPS units too! :up: ;) )

mask2343

03-04-2005, 09:37 AM

Wouldn't a large power source (maybe by the radio tower) or other electromagnetic field make the compass go squirly?

hefe

03-04-2005, 09:43 AM

Wouldn't a large power source (maybe by the radio tower) or other electromagnetic field make the compass go squirly?

It's far too weak. If that were true, compasses here would never work with all the transmitters around...Tv, radio, cellphone & PCS towers, microwave, airports, WiFi, Bluetooth, etc...

mask2343

03-04-2005, 09:50 AM

It's far too weak. If that were true, compasses here would never work with all the transmitters around...Tv, radio, cellphone & PCS towers, microwave, airports, WiFi, Bluetooth, etc...
Well yeah, obviously it is probably something out of the ordinary. But I'm just trying to come up with a "real life" explanation instead of a "supernatural" one.

Rob Helmerichs

03-04-2005, 10:10 AM

Well yeah, obviously it is probably something out of the ordinary. But I'm just trying to come up with a "real life" explanation instead of a "supernatural" one.
Then you're doomed to being wrong! :D

hefe

03-04-2005, 10:12 AM

Well yeah, obviously it is probably something out of the ordinary. But I'm just trying to come up with a "real life" explanation instead of a "supernatural" one.
Well, I guess I can't say we should discount it as a reason in the Lost world...it's not unusual to take a few liberties with physics for the sake of a story.
But I will guess that there is something larger that we don't know about causing a deflection in the magnetic field lines on the island...perhaps some long buried lines or tunnels or electronic equipment. Or maybe there is just a very large amount of naturally magnetic stone on this island...ooh... just thought, maybe this "black rock" is a magnetic rock, or not a rock at all... Hmmmmm....

LlamaLarry

03-04-2005, 10:39 AM

I would have called it a bunker, not a capsule...
Looks more like a de/compression chamber to me or at least like the ones I have been in.

mask2343

03-04-2005, 10:44 AM

Well, I guess I can't say we should discount it as a reason in the Lost world...it's not unusual to take a few liberties with physics for the sake of a story.
But I will guess that there is something larger that we don't know about causing a deflection in the magnetic field lines on the island...perhaps some long buried lines or tunnels or electronic equipment. Or maybe there is just a very large amount of naturally magnetic stone on this island...ooh... just thought, maybe this "black rock" is a magnetic rock, or not a rock at all... Hmmmmm....
Yeah, I figured "black rock" didn't necesarily mean a real rock. Maybe some kind of material or element wanted by the US governement during the war. Ah, who am I kidding? It's all a supernatural thing. :rolleyes:

mitchb2

03-04-2005, 11:05 AM

If the series of numbers begins with 48 and ends with 42....maybe that could refer to the number of survivors? Six casualties?

thatmeowgirl

03-04-2005, 11:08 AM

i just read through this thread and I can't believe we got all the way back to talking about Hurley's weight and Claire being pregnant so long.

I think Devdog said it best that the the show was originally planned for 13 episodes only.

And re: Jorge Garcia, I have worked with the actor, and he is indeed a large man. If he lost 20 lbs. it would be difficult to notice.

mask2343

03-04-2005, 11:16 AM

I found an interesting theory on the 4815162342.com forum. Deals with the Bible.

----------------------------------------------------

Genesis 4:8 (first two numbers are 4 and *)
"And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him."

Black and White, Good and Evil, blah blah blah...

Genesis 15:16
"But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites [is] not yet full."

Eludes to the fact that people will return to the island because the folly/experiment of what those before were doing (see post by BeOPSVMo)is not yet over. Also notice that the number 4 appears again and a lot of tragedy surrounding the inhabitants of the island occured 4 years ago. Not to mention the fact that if you count "Adam and Eve" (the two people found in the caves that Jack identified as being over 50 years old) as the first generation, the french group as the second, and this group as the third, then claire's baby would be the fourth generation and everyone here recognized the importance of the baby.

Again since I can't really find the significance of 23 and 42 this may be a coincidence but it is interesting.

As a side note the 23rd book of the bible is Isaiah which contains the most references in the bible to creation, and there is a reference to God returning at the end times at the "42nd occurence". Couldn't really decipher what the site was talking about in referencing "occurences" but 23 and 42 does relate to the beginning and the end (even if by stretching).

hefe

03-04-2005, 11:26 AM

I think Devdog said it best that the the show was originally planned for 13 episodes only...

Well...yes and no.

The series actually got sold to the network without a script at all, just a 25 page outline. It's not that the vision for the show was only for 13 episodes, that's just how TV works. They make an initial order of X episodes. If the show fails, they don't produce anymore, it ends there. The creators absolutely planned on going further than that, and since the show was such a hit, they got their full season order.

If you count the pilot as one episode, as it was originally aired, the 13th was "Special," the backstory of Michael and Walt. Clearly, things that have happened since then all tie in tightly to what was begun early in the series.

I think the larger question is, do the writers have an idea of what the ultimate resolution to all this is? Was that part of their original outline, or are they going to just keep answering and raising smaller questions untill it appears the end of the series is near, and they have to wrap it up?

thatmeowgirl

03-04-2005, 11:31 AM

ashu

03-04-2005, 11:36 AM

Farrrk! 300+ posts! This time I'm going to avoid reading anything until I atcually catch up :)

pmyers

03-04-2005, 11:37 AM

Hefe-
You make a good point re: do they know where they're going, but I've heard otherwise re: the 13 episodes. I heard they were hit off guard, and didn't expect it to be more that a mini-series.

Just things you hear here in LA. I dunno.

I remember that conversation on this board. Wasn't that the reason for the break in Dec/Jan...so that they could actually go and film more episodes because they had run out?

DevdogAZ

03-04-2005, 11:39 AM

Well...yes and no.

The series actually got sold to the network without a script at all, just a 25 page outline. It's not that the vision for the show was only for 13 episodes, that's just how TV works. They make an initial order of X episodes. If the show fails, they don't produce anymore, it ends there. The creators absolutely planned on going further than that, and since the show was such a hit, they got their full season order.

If you count the pilot as one episode, as it was originally aired, the 13th was "Special," the backstory of Michael and Walt. Clearly, things that have happened since then all tie in tightly to what was begun early in the series.

I think the larger question is, do the writers have an idea of what the ultimate resolution to all this is? Was that part of their original outline, or are they going to just keep answering and raising smaller questions untill it appears the end of the series is near, and they have to wrap it up?
True, but there was rumor earlier in the season that they originally had scripts for episodes 12 and 13 that would have ended the series but they were scrapped and rewritten when they got the full season order.

As for the compass, I'm surprised they haven't tried to go around the perimeter of the island to see if the compass always seems to point in the same direction, or if it is always pointing to the interior of the island. My guess is that the earth's magnetic field is overridden by some greater magnetic force on the island.

hefe

03-04-2005, 11:42 AM

Hefe-
You make a good point re: do they know where they're going, but I've heard otherwise re: the 13 episodes. I heard they were hit off guard, and didn't expect it to be more that a mini-series.

Just things you hear here in LA. I dunno.

Perhaps what happened is that they didn't believe they could justify the expense for an ongoing series. If they originally bought 13 episodes of such an expensive series, it would make sense that they cover all contingencies, like, if it's not a hit, we need to wrap it up at 13 episodes. But if it is, well, this is TV. If it makes money, it will air. So they probably had an option built into the deal to buy further episodes without having to renegotiate after the success. So maybe the answer is somewhere in the middle.

thatmeowgirl

03-04-2005, 11:42 AM

I remember that conversation on this board. Wasn't that the reason for the break in Dec/Jan...so that they could actually go and film more episodes because they had run out?
I heard it from an industry person here in LA. But industry ppl can be full of it too.

When I worked with Jorge on a film, he had just started shooting Lost. He flew back and forth from LA to Hawaii during that time. I got the impression he was working on a mini-series. He told us stuff about shooting the pilot with the explosions, etc. I didn't ask much more.

thatmeowgirl

03-04-2005, 11:44 AM

Perhaps what happened is that they didn't believe they could justify the expense for an ongoing series. If they originally bought 13 episodes of such an expensive series, it would make sense that they cover all contingencies, like, if it's not a hit, we need to wrap it up at 13 episodes. But if it is, well, this is TV. If it makes money, it will air. So they probably had an option built into the deal to buy further episodes without having to renegotiate after the success. So maybe the answer is somewhere in the middle.
Definitely. Good points!

Fish Man

03-04-2005, 11:45 AM

hefe

03-04-2005, 11:53 AM

I have heard from several sources that J. J. Abrams was told, in no uncertain terms, "Do not expect ABC to pick up the 2nd half of the season".

Several credible sources say that Michael Eisner HATED the show's concept, and expected it to be a colossal flop. It was over his loud protests that some other execs at ABC pushed for it to be given a chance. (Eisner reportedly HATED "Desperate Housewives" too. Shows why he is CEO, but not the director of programming! ;) )

Anyway, the creators of the show tentatively had planned to wrap it up in 13 episodes. However, about the time episode 10 or 11 was aired, ABC did pick up the 2nd half of the season, and episodes ~12 - 13 were re-written (perhaps even some scenes re-shot) to extend the series. (They always had a "plan B", in case the show was a hit, but they were told to not expect more than 13 episodes.)

Well, I can accept that they may have been told to expect that at the executive level, but David Fury said in an interview published Sep. 7, before the series premiered...
From Sci-Fi Wire:

David Fury, co-executive producer of ABC's upcoming SF series Lost, told SCI FI Wire that one of the most mysterious characters on the new series about plane crash survivors stranded on a mysterious South Pacific island is the island itself. "It is very interesting and has its own mythology that will hopefully unfold over many seasons," Fury (Buffy the Vampire Slayer) said in an interview.

Additionally they had some strong support:
By Maria Elena Fernandez, Los Angeles Times

When J.J. Abrams turned in an outline for Lost last year, Lloyd Braun, then ABC Television Group's chairman, bragged excitedly to a buddy, "This, my friend, is ER."

Braun was so convinced by the 25-page outline in his hands, a hybrid of Survivor and Cast Away, that he ordered a two-hour, $11 million pilot with no script, just the creators' vision of plane crash survivors on an eerie, not-so-deserted island.

"The outline was, quite honestly, the best piece of television I've ever read," said Braun, who had conceived the show and is now the head of Yahoo Media Group. "I was out of my mind."

So I guess my point is that though they may have been told to expect that, their creative vision was greater than the limits of a mini-series from the start.

DevdogAZ

03-04-2005, 12:07 PM

Of course their creative vision was greater than the limits of a mini-series. No one pitches a show to a network and hopes/expects it to get canned after half a season. I'm sure the creators always had faith that it would be picked up and be a great show for many seasons. Of course they always had a Plan B to make the series go longer and of course the network had the option to pick up the rest of the season at a predetermined fee regardless of the shows success. The only point being made is that as it was originally scripted (and maybe even shot), it was going to end after 13 eps. Those last two eps had to be retooled to prolong the series.

mask2343

03-04-2005, 12:14 PM

We've seen too many shows end with no resolution to believe that they had an ending written for episode 13. If the show wasn't a hit, they would just end it cold. Like the Lyon's Den and others. If nobody was watching, nobody would notice.

Philly Bill

03-04-2005, 12:46 PM

That reminded me of Goober in Andy Griffith.

Gee thanks. :)

We all talk that way in the South. lol.

Rcrew

03-04-2005, 12:46 PM

Phew! Long, long read. Last time I wait so long to watch an ep! :D

Didn't see any comments about Charlie's acting in this ep. While I would agree this was a terrific episode, the one comment my GF and I shared after watching was what the heck happened to his acting. He totally sucked in this episode.

Fish Man

03-04-2005, 12:51 PM

Well, I can accept that they may have been told to expect that at the executive level, but David Fury said in an interview published Sep. 7, before the series premiered...

Additionally they had some strong support:

So I guess my point is that though they may have been told to expect that, their creative vision was greater than the limits of a mini-series from the start.

According to an article I read in some trade rag (upon which I based my previous post), Lloyd Braun was FIRED by Eisner because he "forced 'Lost' down ABC's throat" and Eisner was convinced it would flop.

Of course, Braun has been vindicated, in spades, and can write his own ticket anywhere he might want to work in the industry.

Point is, there were some visionary people at ABC who saw the potential of "Lost", and other narrow-minded types that "didn't get it".

The compromise was to give it a chance.

The visionaries were right, the non-believers now "get it". Some people just have to be hit over the head with a 2x4 to "get" certian things! ;)

hefe

03-04-2005, 12:52 PM

I don't disagree at all about the contingency planning or how networks operate or what they may have intially done for the sake of practical planning. Maybe it's too fine a point to differentiate, but my view is that it was not planned as a 13 episode story. The story is not suffering or changing from whatever original vision there was because it was picked up, as seems to have been implied here and other forums. Now they get to do what they planned on doing, and despite having to plan for a possible 13 week run, they fully expected going beyond that.

Interview with Executive Producer Bryan Burk in July:

But "outing" the Big Noisy Thing will not be the death knell of "Lost." The creators and producers of this series are more forward thinking than that. This is a series for which JJ Abrams already knows how the next six seasons will end. Or was it seven or eight seasons?
Isn't that being just a touch optimistic, you ask? After all, ABC has only picked up the show for 11 episodes. And a full season for a TV show is 22 episodes.
Let's put it this way: "Lost" is not a series which will run out of ideas. Nor is it a series short on savvy. Bryan paraphrased Damon Lindelof, one of the creators of "Lost," by saying that doing a series was a lot like a cross country drive. You have to know where you're going. You might make some detours and you might change your destination, but you do have a general idea about where you hope to wind up when you set out.
"We're huge fans of 'Twin Peaks,'" Bryan said. "And we loved it, but our fear (with 'Lost') was to have a situation like 'Who Killed Laura Palmer?' In Episode 9 (of 'Twin Peaks') they tell you and it's like, now what?"
If JJ and Co. know how each season will end for the next six (or was it eight?) seasons, it doesn't look like "now what?" will be an issue.

And and interview with show co-creator Damon Lindelof in August, before Lost ever premeired:
Most of the fans know that Lost is currently filming eleven episodes. A season is typically 22 episodes. So where does that leave the rest of the season? Will we see the 40 days and 40 nights in those 13 episodes (two-hour pilot plus the other eleven)?
"The 13 episodes will be roughly the first 20 days," Damon told us. "Each episode is roughly 48 hours. But we are anticipating being picked up."

Jeeters

03-04-2005, 12:54 PM

There was an interview with JJ Abrams a few months ago (I think I read it on aintitcoolnews?) where he stated they've been thinking up *tons* of ideas for the characters.

PJO1966

03-04-2005, 12:57 PM

According to an article I read in some trade rag (upon which I based my previous post), Lloyd Braun was FIRED by Eisner because he "forced 'Lost' down ABC's throat" and Eisner was convinced it would flop.

This just proves that the network execs feel they have to "dumb down" prgramming for their viewers. They don't give the viewers nearly enough credit. A deep, well crafted drama like Lost proves them wrong. Something can be intelligent and still be popular. I swear some of these guys long for the days of Dukes of Hazzard and Three's Company. Yes, these shows had their purpose, but we as viewers deserve better. I'm glad there are a select few out there who understand this.

[/rant]

Rob Helmerichs

03-04-2005, 01:00 PM

My guess is that if they had ended it at 13, we would not have been happy with the resolution. It would have just been a fake, tacked-on thing to give a false sense of closure.

Philly Bill

03-04-2005, 01:14 PM

I have a friend who is 6'5" and 320, and he probably looks in a bit worse shape than Hurley.

I'd guess in the 310 range.

I'm 5' 11" and 280.

I don't look ANYWHERE as large as Hurley. I think it has a lot to do with body structure.

Philly Bill

03-04-2005, 01:16 PM

"I can make it. I'm spry".

I LMAO when I heard him say this. Priceless. :urock:

hefe

03-04-2005, 01:22 PM

According to an article I read in some trade rag (upon which I based my previous post), Lloyd Braun was FIRED by Eisner because he "forced 'Lost' down ABC's throat" and Eisner was convinced it would flop.

I just read a few articles on that. It appears their feud predates Lost, but Eisner sure did hate it. Even after the premier scored good numbers he said (excerpted from the book DISNEYWAR) in this article (http://www.mediainfocenter.org/story.asp?story_id=64836786),

On September 29, 2004, I met with Eisner at his office at ABC headquarters in New York. That morning I'd read a full-page ad in the New York Times touting the success of "Lost," which had debuted the previous week to glowing reviews and strong ratings. After so many years, it looked like ABC might have a hit. Simply as a pleasantry, I mention seeing the "Lost" ad.

To my surprise, Eisner seems annoyed. "That New York Times ad was a total waste of seventy-five or hundred thousand dollars," he says angrily. "It's all about ego, impressing the so-called New York intelligentsia. Let me tell you, that ad isn't going to get one more viewer. Maybe if it had been in USA Today < ...>" His voice trails off, but it turns out he is just warming to the subject. " `Lost' is terrible," he says. "The pilot was two hours; it was broken into two one-hour episodes. Then the show goes off a cliff. There's no more plane crash! Who cares about these people on a desert island?"

mask2343

03-04-2005, 01:35 PM

He's right...who cares? Let's put together another season of The Benefactor! Yeah, that's the ticket.

Talk about out of touch with society.

Philly Bill

03-04-2005, 01:37 PM

OK, its not GPS precision but this is more or less how navigation was done until only about a century ago. It could certainly get a rescue ship close enough to find them with a fairly short aerial search.

Thats pretty interesting tanstaafl. I enjoyed reading it. :)

Lee L

03-04-2005, 01:44 PM

This is way off topic, but somewhere along the last few years, Eisner must have hit his head. He was not always like this.

I've been meaning to buy Disneywar, I guess I will get that this weekend.

LostMommy

03-04-2005, 01:45 PM

I LMAO when I heard him say this. Priceless. :urock:

Philly Bill:

My thoughts EXACTLY!!!

"I'm spry."

So simple, yet so perfect. The writers are genii (plural of genius?). Hurley does get the best lines, doesn't he?

Sarah

Philly Bill

03-04-2005, 01:48 PM

Maybe if they were found on a raft they would just say they were the only ones and that there was no one else... Seemed like on Gilligans Island, anyone that found the island and left never wanted to tell anyone that there were 7 castaways there.. lol.

Philly Bill

03-04-2005, 01:50 PM

Sounds promising, but you don't win :) until you can explain whay those six numbers of the fifteen numbers the Yankees have retired (http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/nyy/history/retired_numbers.jsp)...

Thurman Munson died in a plane crash. :)

What number did Roberto Clemente wear? lol.

Philly Bill

03-04-2005, 01:52 PM

Well, they still have GPS right?

Should have been a unit in the plane. Battery too... lol.

mask2343

03-04-2005, 01:54 PM

What number did Roberto Clemente wear? lol.
21

Philly Bill

03-04-2005, 02:00 PM

...It's not that the vision for the show was only for 13 episodes, that's just how TV works. They make an initial order of X episodes. If the show fails, they don't produce anymore, it ends there...

- Pilot? What's a pilot?
- Well, you know the shows on TV?
- I don't watch TV.
- Yeah, but you are aware that there is an invention called television,
- and on this invention they show shows, right?
- Yeah.
- The way they pick TV shows is they make one show. That show's called a pilot.
- Then they show that one show to the people who pick shows...
- and on the strength of that one show, they decide if they wanna make more shows.
- Some get chosen and become television programs.
- Some don't, become nothin'.
- She starred in one of the ones that became nothing.

5thcrewman

03-04-2005, 02:12 PM

#332
THIS, this is why they give us such long gaps between new eps. Writing cramps are a BITCH!

hefe

03-04-2005, 03:08 PM

#332
THIS, this is why they give us such long gaps between new eps. Writing cramps are a BITCH!
Bah!... No symmetry.. I got #333 :p

With 6 weeks 'til a new episode, we may get to 815 :eek:

ovr8ted

03-04-2005, 03:15 PM

This just proves that the network execs feel they have to "dumb down" prgramming for their viewers. They don't give the viewers nearly enough credit. A deep, well crafted drama like Lost proves them wrong. Something can be intelligent and still be popular. I swear some of these guys long for the days of Dukes of Hazzard and Three's Company. Yes, these shows had their purpose, but we as viewers deserve better. I'm glad there are a select few out there who understand this.

[/rant]

These types of shows offer execs the privilege of having part time viewers. They can also schedule shows during other events, such as March Madness due to the fact that the overlying theme is "See ya next week for more whackiness, and by the way, if you missed this week, don't worry, next week will be totally disconnected, and the General Lee will be just as purty as she once was"

These shows seem to be less of a risk. New viewers can show at almost anytime during the season and still get a good laugh. I think this is why Arrested Development is having so many problems. That and the ever changing time slot :rolleyes:

pmyers

03-04-2005, 03:19 PM

For the record, I LOVE Dukes of Hazzard and Knight Rider ;)

Kevdog

03-04-2005, 03:25 PM

I think the larger question is, do the writers have an idea of what the ultimate resolution to all this is? Was that part of their original outline, or are they going to just keep answering and raising smaller questions untill it appears the end of the series is near, and they have to wrap it up?

It may be a stretch, but one of Lost's producers is David Fury (he also writes and directs, I believe). Fury did a lot of work with Joss Whedon on both Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel. Whedon has often spoken of how entire season arcs were developed for both shows before a single script was written or shot. I'm guessing Fury et. al. have taken a similar approach with Lost.

chewbaccad

03-04-2005, 03:35 PM

hmm... Black Rock wreaking havoc with the magnetic field surrounding the island... Meteor? Aliens are afoot? Polar Bear aliens? :D

NerdXing

03-04-2005, 04:04 PM

My guess is an underground bunker. If the numbers are significant how about:

Coordinates, don't you need 6 coordinates to pinpoint a place in the sky?
Lock Combination
Radio Frequency?

dswallow

03-04-2005, 04:05 PM

Coordinates, don't you need 6 coordinates to pinpoint a place in the sky?
In Star Trek, perhaps.

hefe

03-04-2005, 04:22 PM

My guess is an underground bunker. If the numbers are significant how about:

Coordinates, don't you need 6 coordinates to pinpoint a place in the sky?

You just need Right Ascension and Declination. Well, and a reference point for the R.A.

dswallow

03-04-2005, 04:26 PM

You just need Right Ascension and Declination. Well, and a reference point for the R.A.
And distance.

hefe

03-04-2005, 04:32 PM

And distance.

Only if you want to actually go to that point. I think he was just talking about finding a point in the sky, like an astronomer.

dswallow

03-04-2005, 04:33 PM

Only if you want to actually go to that point. I think he was just talking about finding a point in the sky, like an astronomer.
Technically that's a line in the sky then, isn't it? ;)

hefe

03-04-2005, 04:38 PM

Technically that's a line in the sky then, isn't it? ;)

Technically, it's a line in the sky and then right through into space...

Ha! Take that! :)

JoeBarbs

03-04-2005, 04:39 PM

Maybe the numbers have to do with Hurley's girth :)

dswallow

03-04-2005, 04:42 PM

Technically, it's a line in the sky and then right through into space...

Ha! Take that! :)
Technically it's a line in the sky, through space, through matter, possibly including planets or stars or alien spaceships/planets/beings or even our own spaceships. Of course the line goes both ways, so it probably passes through the Earth, maybe even people, buildings, pollutants in the atmosphere, et. al.

lordargent

03-04-2005, 05:16 PM

Coordinates, don't you need 6 coordinates to pinpoint a place in the sky?

In Star Trek, perhaps.

The numbers correspond to constellations.

The creature is Hathor.

The others are jaffa.

That hatch leads to an ancient outpost.

/black rock anyone?
http://www.stargatefan.com/references/P3x972.jpg

/needs point of origin :o

orome

03-04-2005, 08:33 PM

this whole thing about the numbers has me intrigued. I wonder who thought of them and what they represent, all these questions it drives me crazy!23 is sacred to Discordians, fwiw.

Fool Me Twice

03-04-2005, 09:17 PM

I wanted to add to this thread, but this is all I'm left with: Sawyer called Walt "Short Round". Later, there was a suspension-bridge. Get it?

Fool Me Twice

03-04-2005, 09:25 PM

Oh, and I saw the actor that plays Jin today in a trailer for an upcoming Paul Haggis film (Crash). It looks like another feel-good movie along the lines of Million Dollar Baby; you know, 'life sucks and then you die' kind of stuff.

hefe

03-04-2005, 10:43 PM

Back to the bean thing for a sec, we had talked about how it seemed unreasonable for the numbers to be used to guess the beans since when you put them together it's almost 5 billion beans. Here's the transcript of the bean scene:

Mrs. Toomey: A couple days later, we're at the fair in Kalgoorlie, and some Wally there's got this jar. Must have been big as a pony. And it's filled to the rim with beans. Filly's offering 50 grand to anyone able to guess how many beans are in that jar, within 10.

Hurley: Sam used the numbers.

Mrs. Toomey: Yep. The answer was exact, to the bean. Man had been running the scam for 40 years. Nobody'd ever come close. So we won the money.

I don't think a jar that big could reasonably hold that many beans. Unless they are really teeny tiny beans.

The other thing is that she called it a scam. Maybe that number was just written in an envelope or something even though it was wrong so nobody would ever guess. When they guessed that number, they had to fork over the loot.

dswallow

03-04-2005, 10:49 PM

I don't think a jar that big could reasonably hold that many beans. Unless they are really teeny tiny beans.
So off Googling I go to search out how many beans in a jar info on the web, and I find:

http://www.sermons4kids.com/godknowsall.html

Halfway through it I was gonna try to find a way of alluding to maybe Hurley being God. But then that page just went off the deep end. But still... ;)

borther

03-05-2005, 03:36 AM

I don't know how long it takes to film this many shows but I'll bet Hurley is down a bunch of weight at the beginning of the next season.

borther

03-05-2005, 03:44 AM

If the others died from illness after visiting the Black Rock, maybe they died of radiation poisoning.

cheesesteak

03-05-2005, 07:59 AM

When they get around to exploring the black rock, I hope the episode is titled Bad Day At Black Rock.

EMoMoney

03-05-2005, 08:41 AM

I was really not liking this episode until they tied it all together. I was feeling the back story of Hurley was a little too corney, but it all makes sense now. Will the curse be broken now that he found somebody that actually agreed with him they were cursed?

Fish Man

03-05-2005, 12:00 PM

If the others died from illness after visiting the Black Rock, maybe they died of radiation poisoning.

In the episode that introduced Danielle, I felt it was strongly implied that the "illness" was mental in nature, not physical.

Danielle murdered her colleagues because they had "the illness".

She warned Sayed, "Watch your friends, they will change."

This has always led me (and others) to speculate who really had the mental illness, Danielle, or her colleagues?

Test

03-05-2005, 06:03 PM

In the episode that introduced Danielle, I felt it was strongly implied that the "illness" was mental in nature, not physical.

Danielle murdered her colleagues because they had "the illness".

She warned Sayed, "Watch your friends, they will change."

This has always led me (and others) to speculate who really had the mental illness, Danielle, or her colleagues?

and ethan was a little wacka-do...or was he?

BeanMeScot

03-05-2005, 07:51 PM

Man, this thread got off track. What do the number of episodes ordered have to do with THIS episode?

I got another number to add to the mix. Boone's t-shirt had the Chinese symbol for the number 80. Anyone got anything?

And I was wondering if the good fortune symbol Hurley was wearing is also associated with a number. For instance, I know the number (4 or 9?) that is considered very bad luck to the Chinese. It's because the word for the number is similar to Death.

dswallow

03-05-2005, 07:55 PM

Man, this thread got off track. What do the number of episodes ordered have to do with THIS episode?
The concept is that if this were intended to be close to the end, there'd be resolutions to storylines, and if there were last-minute rewrites to extend the season, we might be able to identify some things.

borther

03-05-2005, 09:20 PM

trainman

03-05-2005, 10:34 PM

Maybe that number was just written in an envelope or something even though it was wrong so nobody would ever guess. When they guessed that number, they had to fork over the loot.

I thought about this as I was closed-captioning this episode, and that was my interpretation. It would take a very, very long time to accurately count that you were putting 4,815,162,342 beans into a jar (that's 4 billion, 815 million...).

Hey, look how another 815 shows up when you write the number like that.

Magister

03-06-2005, 12:10 AM

What kind of work did Sun's Father do? I was wondering if his factories were related to the Factory that Hurley had some money in...

And by the way... Hugo was known as Hurley at the institution. I am betting he got his name there. They knew him as Hurley (the inmates). And yes he was an inmate there as well.

Lots of fun.

BrettStah

03-06-2005, 12:18 AM

Sun's father seems to be the CEO of a car manufacturer, IIRC.

balboa dave

03-06-2005, 12:41 AM

Redux

03-06-2005, 01:30 AM

hefe

03-06-2005, 08:39 AM

It's done statistically. You weigh a known number of beans, a large enough sample to account for variance in bean size, then weigh all the beans. Total weight divided by sample weight times the number of beans in the sample will get you the total number of beans. It's extremely accurate.

Except if you need to guess 4.8 billion beans to within 10 beans. It's not going to be that accurate. If you're gonna do it that way, you should be guessing the weight, not the count. And how much would that many beans weigh, anyway?

Kevdog

03-06-2005, 11:24 AM

I sent the photo to a Chinese co-worker, who doesn't know anything about the show, and they replied:

"It means good fortune, blessing"

Similar to what others have stated, but of course maybe the translation is slightly different

So, has anyone put together all of the Asian words or characters that have variously been worn by the Lost crew? Hurley was wearing "fortune"; at various times Boone has worn a shirt with a character on it that appears to be either Chinese or Korean; before she was abducted, Claire wore a pendant in the shape of an Asian character. And what about Jack's tattoo's (can't recall if they were characters or just pictures, but I have a vague recollection that they look like Thai.) Do all of these add up to anything?

BeanMeScot

03-06-2005, 11:54 AM

at various times Boone has worn a shirt with a character on it that appears to be either Chinese or Korean;

As I stated on the previous page, it's Chinese and the number 80.

TiVoSoFine

03-06-2005, 12:44 PM

As I stated on the previous page, it's Chinese and the number 80.

It's actually 84.

hefe

03-06-2005, 01:28 PM

... And what about Jack's tattoo's (can't recall if they were characters or just pictures, but I have a vague recollection that they look like Thai.) Do all of these add up to anything?

I had posted them way back when on the other forum, I'll see if a link works.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&attachmentid=28334

Edit: Nope...I'll just copy and in-line link it....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v650/hefe88/jacktattoo.jpg

lostcristina

03-06-2005, 08:32 PM

I took a snapshot of the other medallion...... I think this is the only decent shot you can see. I went frame by frame. Hope this helps someone!

There was a second medallion below the one seen here. I think you can see both of them better as he's helping his mom out of the Hummer.

balboa dave

03-06-2005, 10:09 PM

Except if you need to guess 4.8 billion beans to within 10 beans. It's not going to be that accurate. If you're gonna do it that way, you should be guessing the weight, not the count. And how much would that many beans weigh, anyway? I was replying to trainman's questiion about how to count a large quantity. I described the method used. I wasn't talking about verifying the count, just reaching the original number someone wrote down. And it is still just speculation that the total number of beans was 4.8 billion something.

BitbyBlit

03-07-2005, 12:27 AM

What I want to know is what happened on April 7, 1719, other than the death of Jean-Baptiste de la Salle. Did Rambaldi die or disappear or something? We know he made the prophecies around 400 years ago, but I wonder when he was thought to have been born and to have died, if he was thought to have died at all. It might be interesting if that date had some Rambaldi significance. But, Rambaldi probably has nothing to do with anything here.

5thcrewman

03-07-2005, 01:28 AM

Speaking of dates:
Can anyone look up what date the earth's population hit-
4,815,162,342?

smak

03-07-2005, 01:53 AM

Rob Helmerichs

03-07-2005, 05:42 AM

MMG

03-07-2005, 07:03 AM

Speaking of dates:
Can anyone look up what date the earth's population hit-
4,815,162,342?

Late 1984

MacThor

03-07-2005, 09:06 AM

Hmmmm....

Connect Four has 42 spaces on its grid - 7 colums, 6 rows.....

Not sure of the relevance but I thought I'd throw it out there.....

Backgammon is played with 15 checkers (each)....

Chess is played with 16 pieces (each)

There are also 42 territories in a game of "Risk"

bobcarn

03-07-2005, 09:24 AM

Are we to assume the box company Hurley owns alot of stock in is the same one Locke worked at?

Whoa!!!

I just started reading the thread this morning, and only got a few posts into it when you mentioned this. (I couldn't watch the show until last night).

I would definitely assume that Hurley owns the box company. We're already seeing how everyone is interconnected in some way or another.

DancnDude

03-07-2005, 09:38 AM

It is really interesting seeing how all the characters are connected on the outside. It may be even more interesting seeing the characters discover this for themselves. We've had a small taste of this from Sawyer about Jack's dad.

thenightfly42

03-07-2005, 11:22 AM

I just looked up a map for Latitude: 4° 8 Min. 15 Sec., Longitude: 16° 23 Min. 42 Sec. (http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?ovi=1&zoom=1&mapdata=9xMRHRSCHjjOK9TIUNHhQfeeDo5SWZARWgdQEXse25I6Hz2MCcNV udf%2fcJmgR3i29EGJrzOxkc4%2f654H97t1X2m9aC11B2uTjOECzEkW11cO OR4H82wVikpmPq%2b6iyroCwEIL3e7jfTyBequZniBAir3KdRS9gwv5AKbce Ul0bxPmQQKecPEerV2ZybBrWNUiV9lp3rwzuFmbB0OZ5RWCmKv1198swF7Mn Mieyp0e2j55fYmZt1pqXWrij1FV0N35P%2b0eJOGtFd71D3ONtmDUGKu%2bG al6BMg8pDwRErk1ASqOkBGk99hCIZ7p9hOhABJ8AmqbLKRh1hdBGrjJV1ABe Fg4ioxRzP5%2bFKMY2JV4qgDiIC4yp2NbYdHniIqj0g2UGW17IOUmhXXF6WD wgJOiaVpDUJ8DMKknIk0Cw3ZxK83DK8nXxTUszgZtvWc2x6Ed5EIN8YQJBHC yOwIk5yinafoHX9a7sFYHyaUSTrJu9rhcC0fplkgd7ZT%2bkG0NpZPSpFJHC 0gd9wvTrNVn%2fbZpIebI0uFKav5KWrE3%2bySNRpOKtRGBXSupGO7DjTWbG IwGvdGnCZtoKrrgxyHzpnSe7%2fICK8hI1Jy), but that spot is in the middle of Africa. I was really hoping that would point to the location of the island.

hefe

03-07-2005, 12:37 PM

The pilot said that they had their problems 6 hours into the flight. What is it from Sydney to LA? 12 hours? 15? So they were almost halfway when they got into trouble and tried to turn back to Fiji.

Flight Plan Map: http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=syd-lax%0D%0A&RANGE=&PATH-COLOR=red&PATH-UNITS=mi&SPEED-GROUND=&SPEED-UNITS=kts&MARKER=1&RANGE-STYLE=best&RANGE-COLOR=white&MAP-STYLE=&MAP-CENTER=SYD&ETOPS=330

Crude region map:
http://www.pacific-travel-guides.com/maps/PacSmall.gif

chipsndip

03-07-2005, 03:45 PM

OK, so I thought maybe the numbers were a cipher code against the lyrics to "La Mer", since it was also written on the maps. If I take the words corresponding to the numbers, I get "voit des la mer la voyez", which according to BabelFish means "The sea sees see it". Not exactly clarifying, but strange that all the "see" words show up...

Probably nothing, but worth a shot.

-Sean

spot1x

03-07-2005, 05:47 PM

DevdogAZ

03-07-2005, 05:52 PM

Put them in backwards and your in the ocean, but off the coast of italy

Map (http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?searchtype=address&formtype=latlong&latlongtype=degrees&latdeg=42&latmin=26&latsec=16&longdeg=15&longmin=8&longsec=4)
It doesn't really make much difference, but you put 26 instead of 23 in your coordinates. It's still in the middle of the Mediterranean if you do it right.

hefe

03-07-2005, 06:01 PM

Well, you're never going to get close until you adjust the numbers to be in the southern and western hemispheres...that is, negative numbers.
Now, if you break up the numbers like this, you are pretty much right in the flight path...

-4° 8' 15" , -162° 34' 2" (http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?searchtype=address&formtype=latlong&latlongtype=degrees&latdeg=-4&latmin=8&latsec=15&longdeg=-162&longmin=34&longsec=2)

jash69

03-07-2005, 07:28 PM

dude!

this show you why eisner is a complete friggin' idiot and should have been tossed from disney years ago!

BitbyBlit

03-08-2005, 12:13 AM

You do realize that's a different show, right? :D

Yeah, but like a local news reporter trying to find the [insert city/town] connection, I saw the 4 and 7 and tried to make the Rambaldi connection. The connection looks even weaker now, though, as in fact 1719 is around 300 years ago, not 400.

<Jon Stewart>Damn you non-existant 0th century!</Jon Stewart>

I still stand by my last sentence, however.

oski87

03-08-2005, 01:15 PM

What happened during minutes 32 and 33? Between when Lenny was being dragged out of the room in the psych ward and Hurley was walking on the suspension bridge? The cable company decided to inform us about a kid that was kidnapped over 100 miles away then. They could have at least done it on a commercial or done it with some scrolling text at the top of the screen, not interrupt LOST!

I'm going to assume that was a bad attempt at humor, otherwise you have priorities so messed up that even referring to you as a member of the human race is pretty questionable!!

BrettStah

03-08-2005, 01:28 PM

I'm going to assume that was a bad attempt at humor, otherwise you have priorities so messed up that even referring to you as a member of the human race is pretty questionable!!
It's not so much a matter of priorities of the viewer than that of the local TV stations... how often do they interrupt the commercial breaks with tornado warnings, amber alerts, etc.? In my experience, they don't. They interrupt the show instead. What some of my local stations have gone to is a shrunken box with the show, with scrolling text at the bottom, with possibly some radar image on the side. This seems to be a good compromise, as long as they don't overuse it.

JoeBarbs

03-08-2005, 01:36 PM

Lets get back to talking about Hurleys weight. its much more interesting. Maybe by the final episode he will actually be heavier than the first episode.

mask2343

03-08-2005, 01:41 PM

There was a clue in that Amber Alert...I'm sure of it!

Kevdog

03-08-2005, 04:43 PM

It's not so much a matter of priorities of the viewer than that of the local TV stations... how often do they interrupt the commercial breaks with tornado warnings, amber alerts, etc.? In my experience, they don't.

Ummm, that's because it's supposed to be *important* information they cut away for and TV stations know that people walk away from the TV (or, if you have Tivo, fast forward) during commercials.

PJO1966

03-08-2005, 04:50 PM

Not to mention they would seriously piss off their sponsors if a commercial that they paid to air did not... no matter what the reason.

Rob Helmerichs

03-08-2005, 05:14 PM

Not to mention they would seriously piss off their sponsors if a commercial that they paid to air did not... no matter what the reason.
In other words, commerce trumps public service, which I think was the original point...

pawchikapawpaw

03-08-2005, 06:15 PM

hey is this relevant? i just realized, hurley just acquired a box company, and locke worked in a box company. i just thought it was interesting.

PJO1966

03-08-2005, 06:19 PM

hey is this relevant? i just realized, hurley just acquired a box company, and locke worked in a box company. i just thought it was interesting.

yup.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/search.php?searchid=123431

Rob Helmerichs

03-08-2005, 06:48 PM

Dontcha hate when a thread hasn't even broken the 400 mark, and people still can't be bothered to read before posting? :D

PJO1966

03-08-2005, 06:53 PM

Dontcha hate when a thread hasn't even broken the 400 mark, and people still can't be bothered to read before posting? :D

Amateurs... ;)

Obligatory disclaimer: My above snide comment should in no way be construed to be inflammatory. It is a joke. I have been guilty of the same myself.

pawchikapawpaw

03-08-2005, 06:55 PM

Dontcha hate when a thread hasn't even broken the 400 mark, and people still can't be bothered to read before posting? :D

well geez, SOR-REEE, mr. hall monitor.

hefe

03-08-2005, 06:58 PM

I was hoping he was joking...

pawchikapawpaw

03-08-2005, 07:03 PM

me too. let it be a joke, otherwise, i'd have to bring it, work it, put my thang down and reverse it.

PJO1966

03-08-2005, 07:09 PM

"It's already been broughten"

TiVoJedi

03-08-2005, 08:15 PM

Hey! It took me like 4 days to read this thread.. albeit a little at a time, but finally got to the end. Muhahaha!

Excellant episode!

hefe

03-08-2005, 08:39 PM

me too. let it be a joke, otherwise, i'd have to bring it, work it, put my thang down and reverse it.

I meant you... :D

JLWINE

03-08-2005, 09:18 PM

Very interesting. I did some digging and came up with a site where you can download and listen to Mp3 files of actual Numbers Station recordings from the last 20 years.

http://www.archive.org/audio/audio-details-db.php?collection=irdial&collectionid=ird059&from=mostViewed&PHPSESSID=adc7edd0a9905cf40aa7de434a3203ee

Listening to some of those, especially "The Swedish Rhapsody" is kind of creepy.

pmyers

03-09-2005, 08:49 AM

Some pretty funny MadTV Lost skits:

http://www.lost-mm.com/video/madtv1.wmv

http://www.lost-mm.com/video/madtv2.wmv

lew313

03-09-2005, 10:51 AM

23 is sacred to Discordians, fwiw.

Why don't they just get Agent whats is name's brother from Numb3rs to figure it all out. LOL

whoknows55

03-09-2005, 11:20 AM

Where is a good place to get a summary? My TiVo ran out of space while I was out of town.

Turtleboy

03-09-2005, 11:25 AM

Where is a good place to get a summary? My TiVo ran out of space while I was out of town.

television without pity, of course.

Mike20878

03-09-2005, 12:09 PM

television without pity, of course.

If you want to read through 15+ pages... :)

whoknows55

03-09-2005, 12:47 PM

television without pity, of course.

I'm trying but I think there was a glossary that I missed. :)

uncdrew

03-09-2005, 07:10 PM

I finally watched the show, and I finally read this entire thread. Guess which took longer? :)

And now oh so many weeks until we find out what's inside of that German submarine.

MannyVjr

03-10-2005, 12:17 AM

Hate to nitpick, but people who are worth 156 mil don't fly commercial.And they don't drive themselves either, but my guess is that Hurley being "new money" he's not used to the jet set life.

philw1776

03-12-2005, 12:20 PM

My guess is an underground bunker. If the numbers are significant how about:

Coordinates, don't you need 6 coordinates to pinpoint a place in the sky?
Lock Combination
Radio Frequency?

No, you just need 2, right ascention and declanation. RA is like longitude, left to right and declanation is like latitude, up and down.

-p (just watched the show via Tivo 9 days later)

JMikeD

03-12-2005, 01:04 PM

dswallow

03-12-2005, 02:47 PM

No, you just need 2, right ascention and declanation. RA is like longitude, left to right and declanation is like latitude, up and down.

-p (just watched the show via Tivo 9 days later)
It's a long thread, but we already went through this. ;)

You need 3, BTW. 2 numbers gives you a line through space. The third, a distance, can give you a point. Of course that point is relative from some position, too, but you might assume something like the center of the Earth as the origin, or the sun, or something else. Oh, but then you need to consider time, too, since all those things in space, including your reference point are moving relative to everything else. ;)

Rob Helmerichs

03-12-2005, 03:24 PM

You need 3, BTW. 2 numbers gives you a line through space. The third, a distance, can give you a point.
Actually, if you're using longitude and latitude, the first number gives you a line, the second gives you an intersecting line, and then you have your location.

dswallow

03-12-2005, 04:01 PM

Actually, if you're using longitude and latitude, the first number gives you a line, the second gives you an intersecting line, and then you have your location.
If you're limiting yourself to surface-of-the-earth.

miscellaneous

03-12-2005, 04:04 PM

Nerds.

Sorry, just wanted to make a contribution. :D

I can only imagine the path this thread is going to take before the next ep airs.... :eek:

philw1776

03-12-2005, 06:04 PM

It's a long thread, but we already went through this. ;)

You need 3, BTW. 2 numbers gives you a line through space. The third, a distance, can give you a point. Of course that point is relative from some position, too, but you might assume something like the center of the Earth as the origin, or the sun, or something else. Oh, but then you need to consider time, too, since all those things in space, including your reference point are moving relative to everything else. ;)

Yah, I posted B4 I realized that I was not at the end of the topic.
However, celestial coordinates are not time sensitive. They're self correcting, i.e. the RA shifts with time.

Loved the show. Hurley has really grown on me (no pun intended) as an actor. Love his comments. Well written stuff.

Unfortunately, I will be missing future episodes as it conflicts with American Dreams and I wish to stay married.

-p (can't record one channel and watch another)

dswallow

03-12-2005, 06:08 PM

Unfortunately, I will be missing future episodes as it conflicts with American Dreams and I wish to stay married.
Lost is rerun often enough you'll probably catch them all if you keep a season pass on it, just at lower priority than American Dreams.

And American Dreams doesn't seem to be long for this Earth, anyway.

Muftak

03-12-2005, 06:09 PM

Hmmmm....

Connect Four has 42 spaces on its grid - 7 colums, 6 rows.....

This is interesting, the paper that Hurley swipped with the numbers on it has 7 colums and 6 rows of the numbers too.

Do the red and black checkers that are in the Connect Four game have any meaning?

DevdogAZ

03-12-2005, 06:18 PM

Unfortunately, I will be missing future episodes as it conflicts with American Dreams and I wish to stay married.
First, when did American Dreams move to Wednesday? Second, why would they move to this timeslot? Isn't Lost bigger competition than Extreme Makeover Home Edition and The Simpsons?

Third, you don't have to miss Lost. Just go get the eps you missed on www.btefnet.net.

whodat1

03-12-2005, 06:29 PM

Some people in this thread have mentioned Hurley and the curse of the numbers. How this curse does not seem to be affecting the other castaways (in fact benefitting them, since they DID get the battery they were after). I wonder if the curse is nullified because Hurley is back on the island where the numbers originated from? Maybe the curse only works in the outside world?

which brings up another problem....Sam & Lenny heard the numbers while working in a military listening post. Why has no one heard the French girls broadcast in 16 years of ever increasing technology???? :confused:

MacThor

03-14-2005, 08:45 AM

This is interesting, the paper that Hurley swipped with the numbers on it has 7 colums and 6 rows of the numbers too.

Do the red and black checkers that are in the Connect Four game have any meaning?

I just started looking at classic two-person strategy games that have light/dark pieces.

Backgammon, used often on the show - 15 pieces each.
Chess - 16 pieces each.
In a stale-mated game of C4, you could have 42 pieces. 21 each, however. :confused:

Rob Helmerichs

03-14-2005, 09:24 AM

mwhip

03-14-2005, 12:28 PM

Just wanted everyone to know that the hiatus is not going to be 6 weeks only 4. They moved it up, lifted from TvTome.com:

19. 1-19 118 30-Mar-2005 Deux Ex Machina
20. 1-20 119 06-Apr-2005 Do No Harm
21. 1-21 120 20-Apr-2005 The Greater Good (a.k.a. Sides)
22. 1-22 121 27-Apr-2005 Born to Run

Azlen

03-14-2005, 12:33 PM

Just wanted everyone to know that the hiatus is not going to be 6 weeks only 4.

They are going to have two episodes in May as well. Lost is going to have 24 episodes this season rather than the regular 22.

mitkraft

03-14-2005, 03:22 PM

-p (can't record one channel and watch another)

I'm just curious how this is possible. Are you using Satelite with a stand alone tivo in an area that doesn't get ANY over the air signal or what?

I mean in a pinch I can stick my finger on the coax-in of my TV and get a fuzzy channel 13 (my local Lost carrier). Can you not tune a TV to analog OTA?

tigger

03-14-2005, 03:23 PM

They are going to have two episodes in May as well. Lost is going to have 24 episodes this season rather than the regular 22.

Good news on both fronts! Notice, though, that there is a 1-week gap in the new schedule, no new episode on April 13 apparently. (just to make sure everyone noticed.... :p )

philw1776

03-14-2005, 04:10 PM

I'm just curious how this is possible. Are you using Satelite with a stand alone tivo in an area that doesn't get ANY over the air signal or what?

I mean in a pinch I can stick my finger on the coax-in of my TV and get a fuzzy channel 13 (my local Lost carrier). Can you not tune a TV to analog OTA?

Right, no OTA available that is viewable. I used to get my TiVo and HDTV signal OTA when I lived west of Boston. Great reception.
Seacoast NH is just too far, plus blocked by an elderly housing 4 story complex.

My bet is that after the episodes I'll miss, they'll still be lost and we won't know the sectets of the island. Any takers?

-p

DLiquid

03-14-2005, 07:22 PM

Looks more like a de/compression chamber to me or at least like the ones I have been in.The hatch is actually the exit of the holodeck.

Muftak

03-15-2005, 07:51 PM

I just started looking at classic two-person strategy games that have light/dark pieces.

Backgammon, used often on the show - 15 pieces each.
Chess - 16 pieces each.
In a stale-mated game of C4, you could have 42 pieces. 21 each, however. :confused:

I meant more on the placement of the checkers rather than the colors red and black. For example, do the red checkers make a certain pattern that means something.

Probably thinking about it way too much...

Vito the TiVo

03-15-2005, 09:17 PM

They are going to have two episodes in May as well. Lost is going to have 24 episodes this season rather than the regular 22.

And eppy 24 will be 90 minutes with the last half hour airing commercial free!!!!

chewbaccad

03-16-2005, 10:39 AM

they tried for millenia to figure out what the question was to the answer of 42 ;)

Maybe the writers are just Douglas Adams fans.

dswallow

03-16-2005, 11:40 AM

Maybe they're episode numbers when something important or related happens.

DevdogAZ

03-16-2005, 12:07 PM

Maybe they're episode numbers when something important or related happens.
Well, if you count the pilot as two episodes, ep. #4 was Walkabout, where we found out about Locke's previous life. Ep. #8 was Confidence Man where we found out about Sawyer's story and that he is not really Sawyer at all. Ep. #15 was Homecoming where Claire returned but didn't remember anything, we found out about Charlie's need to prove that someone can count on him, and Charlie capped Ethan. Ep. #16 was Outlaws where we learn that Sawyer killed the wrong guy and met Jack's dad in the bar. We don't yet know anything about Eps. #23 and 42.

ronsch

04-30-2005, 07:26 AM

Finally got around to watching this one last night and it did take longer to read this thread than to watch the episode.

I can't believe nobody mentioned another great line. When Hurley went to visit Sam's wife and she opens the door and sees him:

"If we weren't in the middle of nowhere I'd think you were someone who is LOST . Or something close to that anyway....

hefe

04-30-2005, 10:56 AM

thenightfly42

05-11-2005, 04:01 PM

I wonder how many people will play those numbers in the lottery this week!
OK, I'm bouncing this thread from a distance, but I was reading a lottery article linked from FARK (N.Y. cookies help diners win fortune (http://www.dailynews.com/Stories/0,1413,200~20954~2862478,00.html)), which included the following quote:
He added: "We had to look at everything to do with humans: television shows, pattern plays, lottery columns."

Earlier that month, an ABC television show, "Lost," included a sequence of winning lottery numbers. The combination didn't match the Powerball numbers, though hundreds of people had played it: 4, 8, 15, 16, 23 and 42.
Oy.

Solemnwishes

10-12-2005, 07:36 PM

Newbie to the forum, in the UK we have just seen sawyer and kate find bodies in the water, and her case with the plane in!! I have been reading this thread (fantastic by the way) and wanted to post about the numbers being episode numbers, maybe they mean something? Looks like someone here went with that , unfortunately I will have to wait much longer than you for episodes 23 and 42 lol.

Anyone remember the program "Fantasy Island"? Place where people went make their wishes come true? Locke can now walk, charley is off drugs, Walt is a Father etc.

Thats my idea anyway!!!

Ade.