TiVoToGo protocol and Info (or how to get stuff of the tivo w/o tivo desktop)

[Danimal4326]

Well, since I've been reading up on TivoToGo, and how the files work and transfers work, I thoght I'd start a thread where we can put our findings.


So here goes:

EDIT:

Some new info..


1. The tivo now runs a web server. Not sure if it did before, but if you go to
http://<your tivo ip> it will display a nice web page telling you that you've set up your TiVo on the network properly.


2a. Tivo Web interface ( thanks Marc )

https://<tivo ip>/nowplaying/index.html

using user: tivo
pass: <MAK>

It gives u a nice web interface to every show on your Tivo!!!!




2. Going to

http://<your tivo ip>/TiVoConnect?AnchorOffset=0&Command=QueryContainer&Details=All&ItemCount=0


will give you nice XML output

<TiVoContainer>
-
<Details>
<ContentType>x-tivo-container/tivo-server</ContentType>
<SourceFormat>x-tivo-container/tivo-dvr</SourceFormat>
<Title>My Tivo</Title>
<TotalItems>1</TotalItems>
</Details>
<ItemStart>0</ItemStart>
<ItemCount>0</ItemCount>
</TiVoContainer>



changing the URL above to

http://<your tivo ip>/TiVoConnect?AnchorOffset=0&Command=QueryContainer&Details=All&ItemCount=1


gets us this usefull info


<TiVoContainer>
-
<Details>
<ContentType>x-tivo-container/tivo-server</ContentType>
<SourceFormat>x-tivo-container/tivo-dvr</SourceFormat>
<Title>My TiVo</Title>
<TotalItems>1</TotalItems>
</Details>
<ItemStart>0</ItemStart>
<ItemCount>1</ItemCount>
-
<Item>
-
<Details>
<ContentType>x-tivo-container/tivo-videos</ContentType>
<SourceFormat>x-tivo-container/tivo-dvr</SourceFormat>
<Title>Now Playing</Title>
</Details>
-
<Links>
-
<Content>
-
<Url>
https://<your tivo ip>:443/TiVoConnect?Command=QueryContainer&Container=%2FNowPlaying
</Url>
<ContentType>x-tivo-container/tivo-videos</ContentType>
</Content>
</Links>
</Item>
</TiVoContainer>


this gives us a SSL link, and when you follow it, it installs a certificate, and then asks you for a username and password.

Thats where I thought I was stuck. I tried several user/pass combinations. Then it dawned on me.. MAK..

Entering user:tivo passwork:<media access key> ... and ta da


<TiVoContainer>
-
<Details>
<ContentType>x-tivo-container/tivo-videos</ContentType>
<SourceFormat>x-tivo-container/tivo-dvr</SourceFormat>
<Title>Now Playing</Title>
<LastChangeDate>0x41DCB7C3</LastChangeDate>
<TotalItems>9</TotalItems>
</Details>
<SortOrder>Type,CaptureDate</SortOrder>
<ItemStart>0</ItemStart>
<ItemCount>9</ItemCount>
-
<Item>
-
<Details>
<ContentType>x-tivo-container/folder</ContentType>
<SourceFormat>x-tivo-container/tivo-dvr</SourceFormat>
<Title>The Simpsons</Title>
<LastChangeDate>0x41DCB7C3</LastChangeDate>
<TotalItems>14</TotalItems>
<LastCaptureDate>0x41DCB7BE</LastCaptureDate>
</Details>
-
<Links>
-
<Content>
-
<Url>
/TiVoConnect?Command=QueryContainer&Container=%2FNowPlaying%2F3359
</Url>
<ContentType>x-tivo-container/folder</ContentType>
</Content>
-
<CustomIcon>
<Url>urn:tivo:image:in-progress-folder</Url>
<ContentType>image/*</ContentType>
<AcceptsParams>No</AcceptsParams>
</CustomIcon>
</Links>
</Item>
-
<Item>
-
<Details>
<ContentType>x-tivo-container/folder</ContentType>
<SourceFormat>x-tivo-container/tivo-dvr</SourceFormat>
<Title>That '70s Show</Title>
<LastChangeDate>0x41DCB7C3</LastChangeDate>
<TotalItems>9</TotalItems>
<LastCaptureDate>0x41DC8D8E</LastCaptureDate>
</Details>
-
<Links>
-
<Content>
-
<Url>
/TiVoConnect?Command=QueryContainer&Container=%2FNowPlaying%2F3502
</Url>
<ContentType>x-tivo-container/folder</ContentType>
</Content>
-
<CustomIcon>
<Url>urn:tivo:image:folder</Url>
<ContentType>image/*</ContentType>
<AcceptsParams>No</AcceptsParams>
</CustomIcon>
</Links>
</Item>
-
<Item>
-
<Details>
<ContentType>video/x-tivo-mpeg</ContentType>
<SourceFormat>video/x-tivo-mpeg</SourceFormat>
<Title>Las Vegas</Title>
<SourceSize>776994816</SourceSize>
<Duration>3601000</Duration>
<CaptureDate>0x41D9F89E</CaptureDate>
<EpisodeTitle>When You Got to Go, You Got to Go</EpisodeTitle>
-
<Description>
When Ed is kidnapped, Danny and Mike franticly search the city for him, a task made more difficult by Ed refusing to let them call the police or pay the ransom.
</Description>
<SourceChannel>5-0</SourceChannel>
<SourceStation>WMAQ</SourceStation>
</Details>
-
<Links>
-
<Content>
-
<Url>
http://<tivo ip address>:80/download/Las%20Vegas.TiVo?Container=%2FNowPlaying&id=1752591
</Url>
<ContentType>video/x-tivo-mpeg</ContentType>
<AcceptsParams>No</AcceptsParams>
</Content>
-
<CustomIcon>
<Url>urn:tivo:image:expired-recording</Url>
<ContentType>image/*</ContentType>
<AcceptsParams>No</AcceptsParams>
</CustomIcon>
-
<TiVoVideoDetails>
<Url>/TiVoVideoDetails?id=1752591</Url>
<ContentType>text/xml</ContentType>
<AcceptsParams>No</AcceptsParams>
</TiVoVideoDetails>
</Links>
</Item>
-
<Item>
-
<Details>
<ContentType>x-tivo-container/folder</ContentType>
<SourceFormat>x-tivo-container/tivo-dvr</SourceFormat>
<Title>Harvey Birdman: Attorney at Law</Title>
<LastChangeDate>0x41DCB7C3</LastChangeDate>
<TotalItems>3</TotalItems>
<LastCaptureDate>0x41D8D4D2</LastCaptureDate>
</Details>
-
<Links>
-
<Content>
-
<Url>
/TiVoConnect?Command=QueryContainer&Container=%2FNowPlaying%2F497944
</Url>
<ContentType>x-tivo-container/folder</ContentType>
</Content>
-
<CustomIcon>
<Url>urn:tivo:image:folder</Url>
<ContentType>image/*</ContentType>
<AcceptsParams>No</AcceptsParams>
</CustomIcon>
</Links>
</Item>
-
<Item>
-
<Details>
<ContentType>x-tivo-container/folder</ContentType>
<SourceFormat>x-tivo-container/tivo-dvr</SourceFormat>
<Title>South Park</Title>
<LastChangeDate>0x41DCB7C3</LastChangeDate>
<TotalItems>11</TotalItems>
<LastCaptureDate>0x41D7A2F6</LastCaptureDate>
</Details>
-
<Links>
-
<Content>
-
<Url>
/TiVoConnect?Command=QueryContainer&Container=%2FNowPlaying%2F3259
</Url>
<ContentType>x-tivo-container/folder</ContentType>
</Content>
-
<CustomIcon>
<Url>urn:tivo:image:folder</Url>
<ContentType>image/*</ContentType>
<AcceptsParams>No</AcceptsParams>
</CustomIcon>
</Links>
</Item>
-
<Item>
-
<Details>
<ContentType>x-tivo-container/folder</ContentType>
<SourceFormat>x-tivo-container/tivo-dvr</SourceFormat>
<Title>Chappelle's Show</Title>
<LastChangeDate>0x41DCB7C3</LastChangeDate>
<TotalItems>3</TotalItems>
<LastCaptureDate>0x41B68346</LastCaptureDate>
</Details>
-
<Links>
-
<Content>
-
<Url>
/TiVoConnect?Command=QueryContainer&Container=%2FNowPlaying%2F322100
</Url>
<ContentType>x-tivo-container/folder</ContentType>
</Content>
-
<CustomIcon>
<Url>urn:tivo:image:folder</Url>
<ContentType>image/*</ContentType>
<AcceptsParams>No</AcceptsParams>
</CustomIcon>
</Links>
</Item>
-
<Item>
-
<Details>
<ContentType>x-tivo-container/folder</ContentType>
<SourceFormat>x-tivo-container/tivo-dvr</SourceFormat>
<Title>Scrubs</Title>
<LastChangeDate>0x41DCB7C3</LastChangeDate>
<TotalItems>5</TotalItems>
<LastCaptureDate>0x41B66726</LastCaptureDate>
</Details>
-
<Links>
-
<Content>
-
<Url>
/TiVoConnect?Command=QueryContainer&Container=%2FNowPlaying%2F27048
</Url>
<ContentType>x-tivo-container/folder</ContentType>
</Content>
-
<CustomIcon>
<Url>urn:tivo:image:folder</Url>
<ContentType>image/*</ContentType>
<AcceptsParams>No</AcceptsParams>
</CustomIcon>
</Links>
</Item>
-
<Item>
-
<Details>
<ContentType>video/x-tivo-mpeg</ContentType>
<SourceFormat>video/x-tivo-mpeg</SourceFormat>
<Title>Beavis and Butt-head</Title>
<SourceSize>389021696</SourceSize>
<Duration>1799000</Duration>
<CaptureDate>0x404EA0CE</CaptureDate>
<Description>Two obnoxious teens cause trouble. Animated.</Description>
<SourceChannel>32-0</SourceChannel>
<SourceStation>MTV2</SourceStation>
</Details>
-
<Links>
-
<Content>
-
<Url>
http://<your tivo ip>:80/download/Beavis%20and%20Butt-head.TiVo?Container=%2FNowPlaying&id=1172173
</Url>
<ContentType>video/x-tivo-mpeg</ContentType>
<AcceptsParams>No</AcceptsParams>
</Content>
-
<CustomIcon>
<Url>urn:tivo:image:save-until-i-delete-recording</Url>
<ContentType>image/*</ContentType>
<AcceptsParams>No</AcceptsParams>
</CustomIcon>
-
<TiVoVideoDetails>
<Url>/TiVoVideoDetails?id=1172173</Url>
<ContentType>text/xml</ContentType>
<AcceptsParams>No</AcceptsParams>
</TiVoVideoDetails>
</Links>
</Item>
-
<Item>
-
<Details>
<ContentType>x-tivo-container/folder</ContentType>
<SourceFormat>x-tivo-container/tivo-dvr</SourceFormat>
<Title>TiVo Suggestions</Title>
<LastChangeDate>0x41DCB7C3</LastChangeDate>
<TotalItems>37</TotalItems>
</Details>
-
<Links>
-
<Content>
-
<Url>
/TiVoConnect?Command=QueryContainer&Container=%2FNowPlaying%2F0
</Url>
<ContentType>x-tivo-container/folder</ContentType>
</Content>
-
<CustomIcon>
<Url>urn:tivo:image:suggestions-in-progress-folder</Url>
<ContentType>image/*</ContentType>
<AcceptsParams>No</AcceptsParams>
</CustomIcon>
</Links>
</Item>
</TiVoContainer>



Now we're getting somewhere. Going to one of the handy links such as


http://<your tivo ip>:80/download/Beavis%20and%20Butt-head.TiVo?Container=%2FNowPlaying&id=1172173


it asks us for user/pass again. using tivo/<mak> again, the browser asks us if we want to download or play our new clip..

:)

Following some of the other urls in the xml, we can get to a page that gives us all the info about a show, etc.

Who's gonna write the first linux client, hehe??

[Danimal4326]

rule42k states that u can convert the .tivo to a regular mpeg using TMGPEnc

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=215842

Now we're getting somewhere...

:)

[Marc]

Wow. They implemented an unsupported browser-oriented browser by going to https://ip-addr/ and giving the username and password that Danimal surmised.

[gonzotek]

That's excellent. In addition to providing size information, you can retrieve and parse all of that info and archive/publish/data mine it in all kinds of cool ways. I'm drooling with ideas just thinking about it :)

[Danimal4326]

Originally posted by Marc
Wow. They implemented an unsupported browser-oriented browser by going to https://ip-addr/ and giving the username and password that Danimal surmised.

Ahh you're right. Didn't think of that.

Go to

https://<tivo ip>/nowplaying/index.html

using user: tivo
pass: <MAK>

It gives u a nice web interface to every show on your Tivo!!!!

:)

Also, like your TiVo box, you can choose classic (sort by record time) or folders view.

At the bottom, there is a warning message


This feature is not supported. The TiVo license agreement allows you to transfer content to up to ten devices within your household, but not outside your household. Unauthorized transfers or distribution of copyrighted works outside of your home may constitute a copyright infringement. TiVo reserves the right to terminate the TiVo service accounts of users who transfer or distribute content in violation of this Agreement.

[AllAboutJeeps]

Also at the bottom it lets you switch between classic view and groups (folders). Fun...

...danny

[pgrutherford]

So does this mean anyone with a browser can download a show? If so, someone should let that the Apple-Heads know.

[Danimal4326]

Originally posted by pgrutherford
So does this mean anyone with a browser can download a show? If so, someone should let that the Apple-Heads know.

Already did ;)

[simonalope]

Just a note: on my computer, highlight-copy-paste'ing my MAK did not work. I had to type it in by hand to make this work.

Also, if you've read my recent post (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2491141#post2491141) in this forum about copy protection, please note that the protected recordings still show up as such when I access via my browser.

Good work, Danimal!

[AllAboutJeeps]

Make sure you aren't copying any spaces or carriage returns. I cut and pasted mine out notepad just fine.

...danny

[MickeS]

That's a nice little feature!

/Mike

[dkroboth]

That's pretty cool. I wonder if there is anyway to get to the To-Do list or Season Passes.

[MickeS]

Do your channel logo pictures work? Mine have a "/" too many in their image source tag: it says "http://192.168.1.4//ChannelLogo/logo-65556.png" but should be "http://192.168.1.4/ChannelLogo/logo-65556.png".

/Mike

[nickhull]

I am getting kind of nervous with the hackability of TTG. It seems like with some fairly unsophisticated coding, you can access your TiVo from anywhere and download the content. After downloading you can rip, convert and burn with off the shelf tools.

I give it a week before there are some nice little utilities that allow sharing beyond your home network and out to the blue yonder....

I'm sure that this is not what TiVo intended, but who knows?

Who will bother with buying Sonic now that you can do all this for free?

[jerrycurl]

Originally posted by Danimal4326

1. The tivo now runs a web server. Not sure if it did before, but if you go to
<your tivo ip> it will display a nice web page telling you that you've set up your TiVo on the network properly.



Haven't received the Tivo2Go update yet and am unable to display information in a web browser - so it must mean that the http service is part of the upgrade.

Could this mean that they are close to doing what I suggested on the suggestion forum... letting us control our tasks via a browser instead of a clunky remote control.

[dkroboth]

The TiVo Video Details link seems to have schema info at the top, but I can't get any of these files to open

<TvBusMarshalledStruct:TvBusEnvelope xs:schemaLocation="http://tivo.com/developer/xml/idl/TvBusMarshalledStruct TvBusMarshalledStruct.xsd http://tivo.com/developer/xml/idl/TvPgdRecording TvPgdRecording.xsd http://tivo.com/developer/xml/idl/TvBusDuration TvBusDuration.xsd http://tivo.com/developer/xml/idl/TvPgdShowing TvPgdShowing.xsd http://tivo.com/developer/xml/idl/TvDbShowingBit TvDbShowingBit.xsd http://tivo.com/developer/xml/idl/TvBusDateTime TvBusDateTime.xsd http://tivo.com/developer/xml/idl/TvPgdProgram TvPgdProgram.xsd http://tivo.com/developer/xml/idl/TvDbColorCode TvDbColorCode.xsd http://tivo.com/developer/xml/idl/TvPgdSeries TvPgdSeries.xsd http://tivo.com/developer/xml/idl/TvDbShowType TvDbShowType.xsd http://tivo.com/developer/xml/idl/TvPgdChannel TvPgdChannel.xsd http://tivo.com/developer/xml/idl/TvDbTvRating TvDbTvRating.xsd http://tivo.com/developer/xml/idl/TvDbRecordQuality TvDbRecordQuality.xsd" xs:type="TvPgdRecording:TvPgdRecording">

[Danimal4326]

dkroboth, I noticed too..

I guess thats why they say "this feature is not supported" hehe. I'm glad they put it in though..

[MickeS]

I give it a week before there are some nice little utilities that allow sharing beyond your home network and out to the blue yonder....

There isn't a reasonably user-friendly method of copyprotection they could have used that would prevent this. I think it's great they provided a web-interface. And remember, the MAK is still needed.

Who will bother with buying Sonic now that you can do all this for free?

Depending on price, the upcoming Sonic feature still seems like a good way to go, if it makes things easier (so far, the stuff mentioned here is a pretty clunky way of getting stuff onto a DVD).

/Mike

[MighTiVo]

Originally posted by MickeS
Depending on price, the upcoming Sonic feature still seems like a good way to go, if it makes things easier (so far, the stuff mentioned here is a pretty clunky way of getting stuff onto a DVD).

/Mike

How about $50?

http://www.tivo.com/5.3.1.1.asp?article=233

Starting mid-January, a MyDVD Studio 6.1 free 15-day trial and complete product software download will be available to TiVo subscribers on www.tivo.com/togo. The complete product software download will be offered to TiVo subscribers at a discounted rate of $49.99 ($20 off MSRP).

[dualfragment]

tag

[MickeS]

$50 would be worth it to me! Hopefully the trial version will be here soon, like they say.

/Mike

[headroll]

Any Mac users given this a go to see if they can access thier TiVos and get stuff without a Mac client?

Since the webserver runs on the TiVo, this seems like a valid way to access content with a Mac.

-Roll

[ZildjianB]

Wow, this is a great thread. I can't believe TiVo activated a web server on its boxes in the 7.1 software... talk about making the boxes easy to hack! Not to mention the fact that TiVo has made it EASY for people to transfer their videos via the internet by opening the correct ports on their router and forwarding them to TiVo. (Yes, yes, I know... TiVo strongly discourages such things and considers doing so a violation of the TiVo license agreement… but it is still worth discussing)

This feature is not supported. The TiVo license agreement allows you to transfer content to up to ten devices within your household, but not outside your household. Unauthorized transfers or distribution of copyrighted works outside of your home MAY constitute a copyright infringement. TiVo reserves the right to terminate the TiVo service accounts of users who transfer or distribute content in violation of this Agreement.
The word "may" above seems to suggest that TiVo's lawyers are not sure whether or not internet transfers would constitute a "copyright infringement," and I'm guessing that they will keep that opinion until the "copyright holders" start complaining about internet transfers and threatening legal action. So, if anyone attempts internet transfers they may be committing a "copyright infringement" and will definitely be violating the TiVo license agreement. But, the question remains... WILL TiVo enforce the 'No Internet Transfers’ rule, and if so, HOW will TiVo know you are making internet transfers? Anyone care to speculate?

It seems that TiVo--whether intentionally or not--has made internet transfers possible through a backdoor. Imagine the possibilities.... you are on vacation or on a business trip somewhere your favorite shows are not broadcasted.... you plug your notebook computer into your room's high-speed internet connection, open your favorite web browser, and connect to your TiVo's webserver via your home network's IP Address.... now you can download the episodes you missed and watch them later in the day. (Talk about pissing off your home ISP by using too much upstream bandwidth!)

Before the flaming starts, please don't think I'm suggesting or recommending that anyone go out and violate their TiVo license agreements, or (for that matter) risk committing a "copyright infringement." I'm just speculating about new possibilities and wondering why TiVo would allow such access. If 7.1 was rushed into service like many believe, then maybe this is one of many 'mistakes' we will find.... then again, maybe this was done on purpose (they certainly took time to write the above disclaimer).

WTG TiVo... this was a VERY "user friendly" thing to do. ;)

[NotVeryWitty]

Originally posted by headroll
Any Mac users given this a go to see if they can access thier TiVos and get stuff without a Mac client?

Since the webserver runs on the TiVo, this seems like a valid way to access content with a Mac.

-Roll

Sounds like this will let Mac users transfer the files from Tivo to Mac, but what are they going to do with the files once they're on the Mac? AFAIK, the files are still encrypted, and the decrypting software is part of Tivo Desktop 2.0 (a DLL that acts as a filter for WMP), which of course doesn't work (yet) on a Mac.

[MickeS]

Except the ul-speeds in most cases would be abysmal from home (at least in most parts of the US), so it would take about 12 hours to transfer a medium quality one hour show.

HOW will TiVo know you are making internet transfers? Anyone care to speculate?

Internet transfers directly from the TiVo would still require the user to first connect to the TiVo webserver using the MAK, and then when viewing it would require both the MAK and the Tivo Desktop password. So it's not like TiVo can't check where the file came from, and it's not like they've given a "crack-free" way to watch the content.

/Mike

[Marc]

Originally posted by ZildjianB
But, the question remains... WILL TiVo enforce the 'No Internet Transfers’ rule, and if so, HOW will TiVo know you are making internet transfers? Anyone care to speculate?
At a minimum, the TiVo knows the source IP of the transfer request. It can easily determine whether it's on the local network or not. For all we know thus far, it could block connections that are from outside the local network.

And remember, too, that the IP address information is probably logged, so TiVo (the company) could get access to those diagnostic logs if needed.

[davezatz]

Originally posted by Marc
At a minimum, the TiVo knows the source IP of the transfer request. It can easily determine whether it's on the local network or not. For all we know thus far, it could block connections that are from outside the local network.

And remember, too, that the IP address information is probably logged, so TiVo (the company) could get access to those diagnostic logs if needed.
IF that is true...

VPN VPN VPN

:)

[MattElmore]

Originally posted by davezatz
IF that is true...

VPN VPN VPN

:)

Or web proxy.

[ZildjianB]

Originally posted by davezatz
IF that is true...

VPN VPN VPN

:) LOL.... I agree, Dave, VPN is a solution. There are plenty of options. If TiVo has programmed some sort of "IP address blocker," it can be fooled. TiVo would know this... I think I'm still in awe that they opened up this can of worms by providing the web server access.

MickeS, I agree that TiVo would be able tell where any .tivo file came from due to the MAK. Just to be clear, I'm not talking about distributing .tivo files over the internet, but just gaining access for your own files for personal use while not at home. As you said, anyone who has access to the files over the internet would still need the MAK to play them, and upload speeds would stink for most people.... but then again, upload speeds are only getting faster as time goes on.

[morac]

Originally posted by MickeS
Do your channel logo pictures work? Mine have a "/" too many in their image source tag: it says "http://192.168.1.4//ChannelLogo/logo-65556.png" but should be "http://192.168.1.4/ChannelLogo/logo-65556.png".

/Mike
Here's something I just threw together that should work around the problem you are seeing. It should work in Internet Explorer and Firefox/Mozilla/Netscape:

var imgList, imgURL, index;
if (document.all) imgList = document.all.tags("img");
else imgList = document.getElementsByTagName("img");
for (i=0; i<imgList.length; i++) {
imgURL = imgList[i].src;
index = imgURL.indexOf("//ChannelLogo");
if (index != -1) imgList[i].src = imgURL.substring(0,index) + imgURL.substring(index+1, imgURL.length);
}


The above code will go through a web page and for every image that contains the text "//ChannelLogo" it will remove the first slash. I can't test it with the TiVo web page, but I tested it on another web page (changing the "//ChannelLogo" to something else) and it worked.

The code above isn't very helpful to fix the page though so what you have to do is create a bookmark, add it to your toolbar. Then open the attachment and copy the text into the bookmark's location.

Now whenever you see a page with this problem, just click the bookmark/favorite link and it should fix the broken images. Try it out and tell me if it works would you?

BTW, if anyone wants I can throw together a Firefox extension that automatically will do the above, but that seems kind of pointless.

[davezatz]

Originally posted by ZildjianB
LOL.... I agree, Dave, VPN is a solution. There are plenty of options. If TiVo has programmed some sort of "IP address blocker," it can be fooled. TiVo would know this... I think I'm still in awe that they opened up this can of worms by providing the web server access.

Yah, all kinds of IP spoofing, blocking, etc.

I'm wondering if Tivo assumes they are covering their butts with all the legalise, but meanwhile going with a cost-effective way of getting the video out. Tivo has always tried to straddle the fence of keeping the average Joe happy while keeping the big media conglomerates at bay. Such as the "secret" 30 second skip... though I'd prefer a commercial skip (also "secret") ala the older ReplayTVs.

It's also possible, they're still developing this thing and at some point it gets more locked down. They don't have to reinvent the DRM model for distributing video either, it already exists and is being implemented (MS, Real) such as MovieLink, CinemaNow, Starz, etc.

I'm waiting for confirmation that folks have been able to play video files on a system (Mac, PC, Unix, whatever) that does not have the Tivo Desktop.

[ZildjianB]

Originally posted by davezatz
Yah, all kinds of IP spoofing, blocking, etc.

I'm wondering if Tivo assumes they are covering their butts with all the legalise, but meanwhile going with a cost-effective way of getting the video out. Tivo has always tried to straddle the fence of keeping the average Joe happy while keeping the big media conglomerates at bay. Such as the "secret" 30 second skip... though I'd prefer a commercial skip (also "secret") ala the older ReplayTVs.

It's also possible, they're still developing this thing and at some point it gets more locked down. They don't have to reinvent the DRM model for distributing video either, it already exists and is being implemented (MS, Real) such as MovieLink, CinemaNow, Starz, etc.

I'm waiting for confirmation that folks have been able to play video files on a system (Mac, PC, Unix, whatever) that does not have the Tivo Desktop. I was thinking exactly the same thing.... it seems like TiVo is trying to keep the average Joe happy... why else would they take the time to add the disclaimer? They were covering their butts b/c they knew someone would gain access to the webserver sooner or later (but probably not this soon!). At this rate I don't think it will be long before someone starts to develop a cross-platform application to help linux & mac users extract video from their TiVos. If the video files are just password protected MPEG2 files (which rule42k's thread on the TMPGEnc conversion seems to suggest), then I don't think anyone will have a problem viewing the file once they find a way to decode it.

[ZeoTiVo]

Originally posted by headroll
Any Mac users given this a go to see if they can access thier TiVos and get stuff without a Mac client?

Since the webserver runs on the TiVo, this seems like a valid way to access content with a Mac.

-Roll

yes but you still need a directshow filter (only available on windows as far as I know) to actually decrvpt the files and play them. Not to mention the things TiVo desktop installs like tivodirectshowfilter.dll and reg keys. So getting the file to the mac is still the easy part

playing the file or doing anything else with it is a different story

[MickeS]

I'm not talking about distributing .tivo files over the internet, but just gaining access for your own files for personal use while not at home.
Gotcha. I agree that this is very useful for that!

/Mike

[ZildjianB]

Question for those of you that have 7.1 and have been able to use the built-in TiVo Webserver-

Once you have downloaded a .tivo video file directly from the TiVo Webserver are you prompted for any passwords when attempting to play it (outside of TiVo Desktop)?

Also, do you have to convert it to MPEG2 before attempting to play it outside of TiVo Desktop?

[Zaxxon]

Originally posted by ZildjianB
Once you have downloaded a .tivo video file directly from the TiVo Webserver are you prompted for any passwords when attempting to play it (outside of TiVo Desktop)?

Also, do you have to convert it to MPEG2 before attempting to play it outside of TiVo Desktop?

That's the $1,000,000 question. People seem to be suggesting that the web server is actually giving access the media-key protected MPEG2 files, and that the TivoDesktop software actually does the conversion to .tivo. Thus, if you're just pulling from the server, no conversion would be necessary--just entering the media access key. Can anyone confirm or deny?

[MickeS]

Deny. It plays the same whether you pull it via webserver or Tivo Desktop. It just doesn't have the show info tacked on in the beginning, and a different file name.

/Mike

[davezatz]

Originally posted by MickeS
Deny. It plays the same whether you pull it via webserver or Tivo Desktop. It just doesn't have the show info tacked on in the beginning, and a different file name.
Can you play it on a system that does NOT have/use the Tivo Desktop software?

[Danimal4326]

Originally posted by davezatz
Is the Tivo running it's own stuff, or is it just Apache? I wonder if we can go in an tweak it...

Has anyone tried FTP-ing into the Tivo to see if you can grab multiple shows simultaniously? Or add our own ReturnToTivo feature... Is this port open and does the MAK allow you to login?

The fact that everything is exposed definitely means we can whip up some functionality pretty quickly. We should port the functionality of the ReplayTV DVarchive sw. :)

And by 'we' I mean someone other than me. ;) ;)

The Tivo is running some sort of web server. I don't think its Apache.. I may be wrong though.

I tried to FTP into it, and nothing. I'll have to try a port scan and see if anything else is open.

[Danimal4326]

Originally posted by MickeS
Except the ul-speeds in most cases would be abysmal from home (at least in most parts of the US), so it would take about 12 hours to transfer a medium quality one hour show.



Internet transfers directly from the TiVo would still require the user to first connect to the TiVo webserver using the MAK, and then when viewing it would require both the MAK and the Tivo Desktop password. So it's not like TiVo can't check where the file came from, and it's not like they've given a "crack-free" way to watch the content.

/Mike


Actually, there is a way to view the content. Just convert it with TMPGEnc :)

Actually, I tried Nero Recode last night and was able to edit the .tivo file without converting it first. So u can use nero to edit out commercials, re-code, and burn to dvd/cd at the same time.. :)

[gonzotek]

Did a scan of ports 1-8000, only 80, 443, 2190, and 2191 show up. I'm VNC'ing from work to my network at home, and I don't feel like scanning all the higher ports, are there any specifc ports above 8000 that might be interesting?

[Zaxxon]

Originally posted by MickeS
Deny. It plays the same whether you pull it via webserver or Tivo Desktop. It just doesn't have the show info tacked on in the beginning, and a different file name.

/Mike

So the files are actually stored on the web server as .tivo?

[Danimal4326]

Originally posted by Zaxxon
That's the $1,000,000 question. People seem to be suggesting that the web server is actually giving access the media-key protected MPEG2 files, and that the TivoDesktop software actually does the conversion to .tivo. Thus, if you're just pulling from the server, no conversion would be necessary--just entering the media access key. Can anyone confirm or deny?


No. The files are encoded by the TiVo box. The Tivo desktop software just pulls the files from the Tivo the same way the web-based method does.

You need the desktop software installed so that the DirectShow filter gets installed. You can just double click the .tivo file from windows explorer, and when media player comes up, it will ask you for your password , then play the file.

[Danimal4326]

Originally posted by davezatz
Can you play it on a system that does NOT have/use the Tivo Desktop software?

No, not unles you re-code it with TMPGEnc or other software (Nero Recode works too )

[bkdelong]

Originally posted by gonzotek
That's excellent. In addition to providing size information, you can retrieve and parse all of that info and archive/publish/data mine it in all kinds of cool ways. I'm drooling with ideas just thinking about it :)


Mmmmm. TivoScrobbler anyone? ONR - The Open Nielsen Ratings?

[MickeS]

Actually, there is a way to view the content. Just convert it with TMPGEnc
You still have to supply the password, and the Tivo Desktop software still has to be installed so the MAK is there. So a transfer directly from Tivo webserver to a non-Tivo Desktop computer would not work unless it's cracked in some way.

And the file does "play" on a computer without Tivo Desktop... it just looks like garbagee because it's scrambled. ;)

[bkdelong]

Originally posted by MickeS
You still have to supply the password, and the Tivo Desktop software still has to be installed so the MAK is there. So a transfer directly from Tivo webserver to a non-Tivo Desktop computer would not work unless it's cracked in some way.

And the file does "play" on a computer without Tivo Desktop... it just looks like garbagee because it's scrambled. ;)

In the first paragraph of the first post, it says the MAK is the password for the Tivo webserver. Since you setup a viewing password in Tivo Desktop, I'm guessing that's where the only place you have to enter a PW for viewing.

[MickeS]

Nope. You have to enter the Tivo Desktop password every time you want to watch or convert a transfered show. Not to be confused with the Tivo webserver password, which is the MAK.

/Mike

[ZildjianB]

Mike & others, let me know if I am beginning to think of this the right way.

As I understand it (and keep in mind, I'm still learning, so someone correct me if I'm still wrong) the MAK is used for access to the .tivo files on the TiVo so they can be transferred to your computer either via TiVo Desktop or the TiVo Webserver. However, once you get the files onto your computer they are still scrambled, which is where the "playback" password comes in. The "playback" password is used to fetch a MS DirectShow filter, which is installed with TiVo Desktop, which is then used with the MAK to descramble a .tivo file for playback/conversion.

[MichaelK]

Originally posted by gonzotek
Did a scan of ports 1-8000, only 80, 443, 2190, and 2191 show up. I'm VNC'ing from work to my network at home, and I don't feel like scanning all the higher ports, are there any specifc ports above 8000 that might be interesting?

i beleive 8080-8090 were/are used for hmo.

go a little higher....

[chocthunder]

I opened a port on my router and forwarded to my Tivo's IP address. I then gave my wife the WAN IP of our network to try to access remotely. She was able to get to the page that tells you you've successfully setup Tivo on your network, but could not access the recordings located at <ipaddress>/nowplaying/index.html

I wonder, if others have speculated, if there is some security around the IP address accessing this page. Anyone have some ideas for quick things to try to diagnose this?

I'd love to be able to access my files from work.

[MickeS]

Make sure she has https://<ipaddress>/nowplaying/index.html

ZildjianB: correct, as far as I know. If you don't access the TiVo webserver, the MAK is only entered once, when you install TiVo Desktop. If you access the webserver, it is used as a password when you access it (although you can let your browser store it and you only have to enter it once there too).

/Mike

[ZeoTiVo]

you need the HTTPS port to be forwarded as well probably according to what was in the OP here.

[gonzotek]

Originally posted by MichaelK
i beleive 8080-8090 were/are used for hmo.

go a little higher.... Nothing from 8000-10000. Ports 2190 and 2191 are the ports the TiVO uses for HMO connectivity. 8080 and 8090, I think, are the ports used by the PC side of HMO. I may also be mistaken.

[davezatz]

Originally posted by MickeS
If you don't access the TiVo webserver, the MAK is only entered once, when you install TiVo Desktop. If you access the webserver, it is used as a password when you access it (although you can let your browser store it and you only have to enter it once there too)

So the Tivo Desktop stores the MAK to allow it to access the web server. I don't get what purpose that Tivo Desktop password serves if the raw files can be converted and edited without it. I'm wondering if the Tivo Desktop 'locks' the file with the local password and then uses the password to unlock it... but if you bypass the Tivo Desktop at all, no password is needed to get at the file?

[bkdelong]

Originally posted by davezatz
So the Tivo Desktop stores the MAK to allow it to access the web server. I don't get what purpose that Tivo Desktop password serves if the raw files can be converted and edited without it. I'm wondering if the Tivo Desktop 'locks' the file with the local password and then uses the password to unlock it... but if you bypass the Tivo Desktop at all, no password is needed to get at the file?

Well, if TD 2.0 caches the MAK upon install, then there's no PW protection. So they offer a second solution for PW protection - something you can plausibly remember.

[gonzotek]

Originally posted by davezatz
So the Tivo Desktop stores the MAK to allow it to access the web server. I don't get what purpose that Tivo Desktop password serves if the raw files can be converted and edited without it. I'm wondering if the Tivo Desktop 'locks' the file with the local password and then uses the password to unlock it... but if you bypass the Tivo Desktop at all, no password is needed to get at the file? You can get the file from the web interface without the desktop password (using the MAK). But you need the Desktop software and the password to play/edit/use the file. The MAK will get you the file out of the tivo, but does not give you the ability to playback/edit the file.

[bkdelong]

Originally posted by gonzotek
You can get the file from the web interface without the desktop password (using the MAK). But you need the Desktop software and the password to play/edit/use the file. The MAK will get you the file out of the tivo, but does not give you the ability to playback/edit the file.

Hrm....has anyone actually tried to work with a Web-based file yet? Download it from ones tivo, open it with TMPGEnc, enter the MAK and view it? If Windows users can use VLC to view .tivo files, couldn't Mac users? Or is it the dreaded codec?

Does this mean the DirectShow encoding is happing on the Tivo prior to download?

[jtbmoore]

It seems like it is a matter of time before someone figures out how to turn this one way street into a two way street. Convert a mpeg to .tivo and drop it back on the Tivo.

A guy can dream.

[gonzotek]

It doesn't matter how you download it, the file is encrypted on the tivo. With respect to the current situation, Directshow is just a chain of playback filters, the first one being the tivo desktop dll that does the decrypting. When you open a .tivo, the first filter in the chain will ask for your desktop password. When you correctly provide that, it decrypts the file and sends it to an mpeg decoder filter, which then sends it to a video out filter AND an audio out filter. The audio actually gets one more filter before being output, a "tivo audio boost" filter, in case the audio recordings aren't loud enough in general. There's a setting in the Tivo desktop software somewhere to set the default boost.

You can see this by opening a .tivo with graphedit (http://www.digital-digest.com/dvd/downloads/graphedit.html)

[Crash331]

i need to tag this

[bkdelong]

Originally posted by gonzotek
It doesn't matter how you download it, the file is encrypted on the tivo. With respect to the current situation, Directshow is just a chain of playback filters, the first one being the tivo desktop dll that does the decrypting. When you open a .tivo, the first filter in the chain will ask for your desktop password. When you correctly provide that, it decrypts the file and sends it to an mpeg decoder filter, which then sends it to a video out filter AND an audio out filter. The audio actually gets one more filter before being output, a "tivo audio boost" filter, in case the audio recordings aren't loud enough in general. There's a setting in the Tivo desktop software somewhere to set the default boost.


Encrypted with what? The MAK or the Tivo Desktop 2.0 viewing PW? What about shows recorded prior to 7.1? And if TD 2.0 isn't used....the Web interface is, how does it get decoded. Does it? or is the TD 2.0 application the only thing that decodes?

[gonzotek]

It's encrypted on the TiVo, presumably with the MAK. It's decrypted on the PC by providing the password. Shows recorded prior to 7.1 are encrypted. You MUST have Tivo Desktop installed and provided with the MAK and your chosen password to decrypt. If you download via the web interface, the file will arrive in THE SAME condition as if you had initiated the transfer in Tivo Desktop. Once you open the file, you will be presented with the password dialog if you have the Tivo Desktop software installed. If you do not, you will not be able to decrypt the file and therefore not be able to play it. Having the tivo desktop software installed is the only (known) way to decrypt a file, no matter how it was obtained. And it will only decrypt files created with a MAK matching the one it is provided when it is installed(ie. only your MAK). In other words, if you don't have TiVo Desktop 2.0 installed you will NOT be able to decrypt the files, nor will your copy of Tivo Desktop decrypt my files if you browse to my TiVo web page over the internet or I email one to you.

[Danimal4326]

Originally posted by bkdelong
Encrypted with what? The MAK or the Tivo Desktop 2.0 viewing PW? What about shows recorded prior to 7.1? And if TD 2.0 isn't used....the Web interface is, how does it get decoded. Does it? or is the TD 2.0 application the only thing that decodes?


Encrypted with the MAK.. on your Tivo Box.. It doesnt matter if you recorded the show before OR after getting 7.1 All shows will be encrypted using the MAK.

When you install Tivo desktop, it installs severall dlls which are DirectShow filters. one of these de-crypts the tivo files. It asks you for a password, which is used to pull the MAK either out of the registry somewhere or some file on your computer. The password gets the MAK to the directshow filter, which then uses the MAK to de-crypt the .tivo file.

Once you get it to your computer, be it using Tivo Desktop or the Web interface, you will need to have the tivo direct show filter installed, and windows media player or TMPGEnc or Nero, etc will ask for your password that you created with Tivo Desktop.

I think they used the password so that the users wouldnt have to remember their MAK. Providing the correct password provides the MAK to the filter allowing it to de-crypt the .tivo file and passing it on the the rest of the filters (MPEG-2, audio, etc )

[ManateeMan]

Here is the interesting version information when using nikto on my Series 2:

Server: tivo-httpd-1:7.1.P3-01-2:240
tivo - TiVo Calypso Server allows Tiva DVRs to talk to computers to download mp3 and jpg data via an HTTP web server on port 8101.

[gonzotek]

Originally posted by Danimal4326
Encrypted with the MAK.. on your Tivo Box.. It doesnt matter if you recorded the show before OR after getting 7.1 All shows will be encrypted using the MAK.

When you install Tivo desktop, it installs severall dlls which are DirectShow filters. one of these de-crypts the tivo files. It asks you for a password, which is used to pull the MAK either out of the registry somewhere or some file on your computer. The password gets the MAK to the directshow filter, which then uses the MAK to de-crypt the .tivo file.

Once you get it to your computer, be it using Tivo Desktop or the Web interface, you will need to have the tivo direct show filter installed, and windows media player or TMPGEnc or Nero, etc will ask for your password that you created with Tivo Desktop.

I think they used the password so that the users wouldnt have to remember their MAK. Providing the correct password provides the MAK to the filter allowing it to de-crypt the .tivo file and passing it on the the rest of the filters (MPEG-2, audio, etc ) That is my understanding of the system, and described better than I did.

[mcarleton2000]

I have two TiVos at my house. Is there one MAK per TiVo or one MAK per
TiVo account?

[vikrampant]

Originally posted by mcarleton2000
I have two TiVos at my house. Is there one MAK per TiVo or one MAK per
TiVo account?

One MAK per TiVo account

[BiloxiGeek]

There seems to be a flaw in that. Say I have a show that was recorded over a year ago. Wouldn't that have been prior to Tivo implementing the Media Access Key, so how is that show encrypted with the MAK?

Do all Tivo's encrypt with the MAK and it's only now with the TivoToGo hitting the streets that we get to see what our MAK is set to and have a reason to see the MAK?

Originally posted by Danimal4326
Encrypted with the MAK.. on your Tivo Box.. It doesnt matter if you recorded the show before OR after getting 7.1 All shows will be encrypted using the MAK.

[ZildjianB]

Originally posted by BiloxiGeek
There seems to be a flaw in that. Say I have a show that was recorded over a year ago. Wouldn't that have been prior to Tivo implementing the Media Access Key, so how is that show encrypted with the MAK?

Do all Tivo's encrypt with the MAK and it's only now with the TivoToGo hitting the streets that we get to see what our MAK is set to and have a reason to see the MAK? My guess is that the MAK was added to old recordings during the software upgrade process. Either that, or it has always been there but was hidden until now.

[jmemmott]

All Series 2 Tivo's encrypt the programs they record and always have done so. All of the evidence I have would indicate that the MAK either is the decryption key that the Tivo's on your account use or is a scrambled variation of it. That doesn't mean that you will be able to decrypt .tivo files without the help of the Tivo software or that you will be able to create these files from your own source material: we do not know the encrytption algorythm and it may be illegal to reverse engineer it (IANAL).

[Marc]

It's also possible that the MAK permits the TiVo software on the PC to decode the scrambling key that is stashed in the file itself. Isn't this how DVDs are done?

[jmemmott]

Exactly.

That is the unknown algorythm problem. Do you start by directly decrypting stream data using the MAK or do you use the MAK to extract header information that allows you to start decrypting stream data or ... ???

[ZeoTiVo]

Originally posted by gonzotek
It doesn't matter how you download it, the file is encrypted on the tivo. With respect to the current situation, Directshow is just a chain of playback filters, the first one being the tivo desktop dll that does the decrypting. When you open a .tivo, the first filter in the chain will ask for your desktop password. When you correctly provide that, it decrypts the file and sends it to an mpeg decoder filter, which then sends it to a video out filter AND an audio out filter. The audio actually gets one more filter before being output, a "tivo audio boost" filter, in case the audio recordings aren't loud enough in general. There's a setting in the Tivo desktop software somewhere to set the default boost.

You can see this by opening a .tivo with graphedit (http://www.digital-digest.com/dvd/downloads/graphedit.html)


four days aftetr release , 3 to go ;)

[ABQ Jon]

All of this nifty XML stuff, coupled with Bill Gates's announcement about the TiVo/MS partnership, makes me wonder whether 7.1 includes support for Universal Plug & Play. If so, it might point to a way to send video files to the TiVo. M$ already has Windows Media Connect out there, and it's not like it would be hard to convert files to MPEG-2 and upload them...

Has anyone out there with 7.1 tried enabling UPnP on their PC and seeing what happens?

[jsmmd]

Originally posted by ZildjianB
...

The word "may" above seems to suggest that TiVo's lawyers are not sure whether or not internet transfers would constitute a "copyright infringement," and I'm guessing that they will keep that opinion until the "copyright holders" start complaining about internet transfers and threatening legal action. So, if anyone attempts internet transfers they may be committing a "copyright infringement" and will definitely be violating the TiVo license agreement. But, the question remains... WILL TiVo enforce the 'No Internet Transfers’ rule, and if so, HOW will TiVo know you are making internet transfers? Anyone care to speculate?

It seems that TiVo--whether intentionally or not--has made internet transfers possible through a backdoor. Imagine the possibilities.... you are on vacation or on a business trip somewhere your favorite shows are not broadcasted.... you plug your notebook computer into your room's high-speed internet connection, open your favorite web browser, and connect to your TiVo's webserver via your home network's IP Address.... now you can download the episodes you missed and watch them later in the day. (Talk about pissing off your home ISP by using too much upstream bandwidth!)

Before the flaming starts, please don't think I'm suggesting or recommending that anyone go out and violate their TiVo license agreements, or (for that matter) risk committing a "copyright infringement." I'm just speculating about new possibilities and wondering why TiVo would allow such access. If 7.1 was rushed into service like many believe, then maybe this is one of many 'mistakes' we will find.... then again, maybe this was done on purpose (they certainly took time to write the above disclaimer).

WTG TiVo... this was a VERY "user friendly" thing to do. ;)

The existance of the server, while a little suprising based off the press release, it really shouldn't be.

Remeber this little press release, and yes, I know companies make promises every day that they don't get around to keeping.



Thu, Aug. 05, 2004

FCC Approves New TiVo Technology Feature

"The new technology, which TiVo refers to as "remote access," could be included in a service called TiVoToGo that the company plans to offer this fall. "...

"The technology would allow a TiVo subscriber to download broadcasts to a computer and send copies of recorded shows over the Internet to an office or home or to a small circle of friends, as long as they are on the subscriber's registered account."

check out online




Boo!, where's my circle of trust, I mean friends... :p lol


...

[alansh]

My guess is that the an id is embedded in the recording. If a recording shows up on some server or Bittorrent, they can use that to trace the recording back to the original recorder. If you're not sharing the recording with the general public, there's really no way for them to know.

[samkuhn]

My guess is that the an id is embedded in the recording.
I wonder too if there is a watermark of some kind containing the MAK in transfered video. I think to do effective watermarking (e.g. that would survive transcoding) would require a dedicated processor, or a lot more time than what the tivo is using the transfer the recording now.

If the files are tagged or marked, I would guess that the tag/mark will be removed during transcoding.

[entrager2]

I wonder too if there is a watermark of some kind containing the MAK in transfered video. I think to do effective watermarking (e.g. that would survive transcoding) would require a dedicated processor, or a lot more time than what the tivo is using the transfer the recording now.

I would assume that there has got to be some kind of watermark if they want to make content providers happy. Otherwise anyone could transfer recordings from the TiVo, legitimately burn them to DVD, then rip the mpeg2 off the DVD and distribute it. (I know, you can just use TMPEGEnc to translate a .tivo in to an mpeg2 directly, but I'm talking about doing it with tools TiVo provides.)

Watermarking really is a very cheap algorithm, all it requires is slightly shifting a few numbers here and there. In fact, with an mpeg stream all kinds of data can be hidden in the stream with nearly no overhead and no noticable difference in video quality.

Of course, this only works if the mpeg that you get from the process above (either of them) is truely the exact same mpeg as the original, but with the TiVo-specific encryption removed. If there is any re-encoding occuring at any step, them any watermark would be mangled beyond recognition.

Despite how easy it would be, I doubt they actually do it. They (and content providers) realize that if someone wants to pirate something, they will. TiVo just wants to make the process of doing it harder that it's worth. Tell me, what's simpler: 1) Recording something with your TiVo, transfering it to your computer, re-encoding it to remove TiVo encryption, and then distributing it, or 2) Use a (cheaper) capture card on your PC to record the content and put it up as is? My guess is that they perceive no threat since there is a MUCH simpler solution out there.

[entrager2]

I just realized that in one posting I both said that there probably is a watermark and that there probably isn't. I stand by the second assumption, I doubt they watermark because there's no reason to. If a pirate wanted to distribute content, they wouldn't go through the hassle of doing it with a TiVo.

[jtbmoore]

I am a little confuse on why all this is necassary. I just watched the CES Bill Gates keynote and M$ media edition does everything Tivo2Go does with out all of these hassles. If Tivo is so worried about copyright why isn't M$.

[rhobite]

Originally posted by Marc
At a minimum, the TiVo knows the source IP of the transfer request. It can easily determine whether it's on the local network or not. For all we know thus far, it could block connections that are from outside the local network.

And remember, too, that the IP address information is probably logged, so TiVo (the company) could get access to those diagnostic logs if needed. If they do that, they're going to lose me as a customer.

[samkuhn]

I am a little confuse on why all this is necassary. I just watched the CES Bill Gates keynote and M$ media edition does everything Tivo2Go does with out all of these hassles. If Tivo is so worried about copyright why isn't M$.
You can guess that the MS stuff will obey the DRM restrictions available. There will inevitably be limits on what can be transfered and how many times it be transfered. I'm sure Gates didn't mention in or highlight it since the only people that want that "feature" are the content providers. Joe Average just wants to watch NFL on his PDA.

[MediaLivingRoom]

Can someone post screen shots?

[ZildjianB]

I did a search for 'tivo' in my Win XP SP2 registry tonight to see if I could tell what TiVo Desktop 2.0 was doing on my system. It added loads of stuff to the registry. Here are a few of the more interesting additions-

HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\TiVo\Desktop\Server\RestrictAcces s = 0
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\TiVo\Desktop\Transfer\HttpPort = 8101

HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\TiVo\SharingKeys\TiVoToGo Media = These 3 Values were identical in my registry
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\TiVo\SharingKeys\TiVoToGo Metadata = These 3 Values were identical in my registry
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\TiVo\SharingKeys\TivoToGo Transfer = These 3 Values were identical in my registry

Several Registry entries pointed to this .dll file:
C:\Program Files\Common Files\TiVo Shared\DirectShow\TiVoDirectShowFilter.dll
This file seems to contain the resources for the 'Enter Playback Password' dialog box, including error messages if the wrong password is entered.

HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\CLSID\{A65FA79B-2D2C-42BD-BAB2-D474B8F01248}\(Default) = 'Tivo DirectShow Source Filter'
HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\CLSID\{083863F1-70DE-11d0-BD40-00A0C911CE86}\Instance\{A65FA79B-2D2C-42BD-BAB2-D474B8F01248}\FilterData = REG_BINARY DATA
HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\CLSID\{083863F1-70DE-11d0-BD40-00A0C911CE86}\Instance\{A65FA79B-2D2C-42BD-BAB2-D474B8F01248}\FriendlyName = 'Tivo DirectShow Source Filter'
Note: There are several instances similar to the one above.

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\MediaPlayer\Player\Ext ensions\Descriptions\9 = MPEG-4/3GP File (*.mp4;*.3gp;*.m4a)
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\MediaPlayer\Player\Ext ensions\MUIDescriptions\9 = Tivo video file
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\MediaPlayer\Player\Ext ensions\Types\9 = *.TivoI can on speculate as to what some of this stuff means. Basically, I'm just making the info available for anyone interested.

[thecapitalizt]

Looks like its just saying "use this .dll when you encounter the filetype .tivo". I believe that .dll's are binaries (meaning you can't look at whats inside them to reverse-engineer the encryption protocol).

I'm so pissed now that the box that I have sitting upstairs has an odd mobo that wont run winxp or win2k for more than 5 minutes without bluescreening. grrr....

I can't wait for a mac version, or better yet, for dvdjon to come to our rescue!

[jerrycurl]

Originally posted by chocthunder
I opened a port on my router and forwarded to my Tivo's IP address. I then gave my wife the WAN IP of our network to try to access remotely. She was able to get to the page that tells you you've successfully setup Tivo on your network, but could not access the recordings located at <ipaddress>/nowplaying/index.html

I wonder, if others have speculated, if there is some security around the IP address accessing this page. Anyone have some ideas for quick things to try to diagnose this?

I'd love to be able to access my files from work.

I'm speculating that this is due to it running over a secure connection. You need to ensure that your router is open for port 443 which is the typical SSL port I believe.

[TK421]

Originally posted by jerrycurl
I'm speculating that this is due to it running over a secure connection. You need to ensure that your router is open for port 443 which is the typical SSL port I believe.

Yup, definitely need 443 and 80 open. Ironically, I can the Now Playing page, which is over 443, but not transfer a show because my ISP blocks 80 incoming.

Edit for grammar

[Joe Smith]

Originally posted by simonalope
Just a note: on my computer, highlight-copy-paste'ing my MAK did not work. I had to type it in by hand to make this work.


I've noticed this sort of failure when doing highlight-copy-paste on bold text.

[AbMagFab]

Why couldn't I play someone else's .tivo file if I just entered their MAK into Desktop 2.0, or when opening up the .tivo file directly?

What prevents a napster-like distribution of .tivo files, just renamed with the MAK in there (e.g. seinfeld-101-[MAK].tivo)?

[Uniden900]

Originally posted by AbMagFab
Why couldn't I play someone else's .tivo file if I just entered their MAK into Desktop 2.0, or when opening up the .tivo file directly?

What prevents a napster-like distribution of .tivo files, just renamed with the MAK in there (e.g. seinfeld-101-[MAK].tivo)?

I doubt Tivo would care, but persay you made that NFL superbowl recording and post it on a P2P network where the whole world wants to see "wardrobe malfunction II." The whole world downloads your copy. NFL gets grumpy and traces the culprit with the supplied MAK through subpeonas<sp?>. NFL then takes your TIVO away and you pine away the rest of your life.

Exagerated of course, but it'll make people think twice before sharing their MAK.

[inio]

https uses SSL, which requires a certificate, which has to be signed by an authority and match the host using it.

So I ask: what are the specifics of the certificate that your TiVo is using for https (hash, valid dates, signing authority, etc)? The usefulness of https would be questionable if all TiVos use the same certificate. On the other hand if the certificates are unique it would be interesting to know what the signing authority is as that's a LOT of unique certificates to be generating. In either case it's interesting that they've gotten a certificate that somehow works with the TiVo's IP address, no matter what it is.

[Pittsburgh_Chris]

In Linux (or any OS), you can generate a self-signed certificate that does not necessarily need a known signing authority (the authority would end up being the Tivo itself). When you connect to the Tivo, it may warn you about the certificate. Danimal's post even says he installed the cert.

Anyway, it's pretty easy to do.

[gonzotek]

Originally posted by Pittsburgh_Chris
In Linux (or any OS), you can generate a self-signed certificate that does not necessarily need a known signing authority (the authority would end up being the Tivo itself). When you connect to the Tivo, it may warn you about the certificate. Danimal's post even says he installed the cert.

Anyway, it's pretty easy to do. Yeah it's a self-signed cert. It's "issued by" info provides my TSN as the Common Name (CN) and Tivo, Inc. as the Organization (0). It's valid until 2015 :D

I'm gonna assume that the hash's are unique and therefore not intersting at this point.

[LordKronos]

Originally posted by jtbmoore
If Tivo is so worried about copyright why isn't M$.

because if the media companies come after microsoft, they have a crapload of money to just laugh in their faces, drag the thing through court for several years, pay a fine/settlement at the end, and by that time Microsoft will be onto something bigger and won't really even care if they end up with a judgement against them saying they can't do this or that.

TiVo can't really say the same thing.

[kdustin]

I go to the pages recommended by Tivo and I see codecs you need to purchase. Does anyone have a free one that has worked with this TTG?

Thanks!

[MickeS]

the K-Lite Codec Pack worked for me. Don't have a link, search on google.

/Mike

[Gregor]

Originally posted by Uniden900
I doubt Tivo would care, but persay you made that NFL superbowl recording and post it on a P2P network where the whole world wants to see "wardrobe malfunction II." The whole world downloads your copy. NFL gets grumpy and traces the culprit with the supplied MAK through subpeonas<sp?>. NFL then takes your TIVO away and you pine away the rest of your life.

Exagerated of course, but it'll make people think twice before sharing their MAK.

Someone will end up being made an example of, I would bet.

[maggard]

Then tough nuts to the NFL.

Seriously.

Broadcasting over the public airwaves is a privilege, not a right. Through the FCC our airwaves are licensed for use to media companies to further the public good. Neither the NFL nor anyone else has any 'right' to take offense at a recording of their freely broadcast signal being reproduced or distributed for non-commercial use.

If the source were, say, ESPN, a cable channel that is not freely broadcast then yes, there would be some cause for concern. But something broadcast? Then you've got the exact same rights your cable or sat. company has to the (re)transmission. share your recordings of Gilligan's Island, Chasing Amy, whatever.

Nothing from DVD, or HBO, but ABC/CBS/NBC/FOX/WB/m-o-u-s-e - sure.

[dotorg]

Originally posted by maggard

If the source were, say, ESPN, a cable channel that is not freely broadcast then yes, there would be some cause for concern. But something broadcast? Then you've got the exact same rights your cable or sat. company has to the (re)transmission. share your recordings of Gilligan's Island, Chasing Amy, whatever.

You do realize that the cable and sat companies don't have any right to do that, right? They have to have an agreement in place with that channel?

And you realize, as well, that you have no right to redistribute anything you record OTA, as well?

You have limited rights to time shift material. Thats about it.

[ZeoTiVo]

Originally posted by AbMagFab
Why couldn't I play someone else's .tivo file if I just entered their MAK into Desktop 2.0, or when opening up the .tivo file directly?

What prevents a napster-like distribution of .tivo files, just renamed with the MAK in there (e.g. seinfeld-101-[MAK].tivo)?

the MAK is keyed to your account. The Terms of service clearly state you can not share files. TiVo can terminate your TiVo account and your TiVos turn to boat anchors with no more recordings able to be made and shared.

[justmike]

How about some screen shots of the web server side of this for those of us with the DVD that will probably not see it otherwise till later this year :(

Mike

[captain_video]

I find this thread totally amazing and completely comical at the same time. You guys are going gaga over a feature that Tivo is implementing (TivoToGo) that is essentially a variation of a hack that was developed some time ago over at the No. 1 Tivo hacking site (hint: it ain't here). You know, the forum the mods don't want you to know about? Ooops, I forgot, the TCF forum software censors any mention of that site since they want to keep you in the dark. Actually, they are paranoid that such hacking talk with Tivo listening in may cause them too much grief so they just don't want you to know about it simply to cover their collective a$$e$.

I'm shocked because the mention of video extraction and burning Tivo videos to DVD seems to have become an acceptable topic all of a sudden. Merely implying you were thinking of extracting or copying Tivo videos would get you in deep doodoo in the past. Been doing that for about 3-1/2 years now, primarily as an extension to timeshifting and not for distribution, in case anyone's interested.

FYI - all Tivos, with the exception of the series 1 SA models, encrypt the video while its being recorded. Some sort of method has to be implemented to deactivate the encryption process before you can use the mpeg files outside of a Tivo with anything other than the TivoToGo software. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt. Someone indicated that it would be a great idea to be able to extract the video to your PC and then return it to the Tivo. Old news guys. Been done for quite a while now. HMO for DirecTivos is also a reality but you won't be able to get it from DTV or Tivo.

BTW, using TMPGEnc for muxing the ty files (that's what they're called) is a hit or miss proposition at best and can cause audio sync issues with some recordings. There are far better apps for working with ty files. I won't divulge all the good stuff since the mods will most likely delete it anyway. In fact, I'll be surprised if this post is still here in 24 hours so read it quickly.;)

[ytytyt]

Yes, the Mods are suddenly very silent on the subject.

Wonder when TiVo Inc. will remind them that the only acceptable burning method is via their propiterial codec, and all disscusions of "other" methods are banned..


Hi CV :)

[mcomer]

Originally posted by captain_video
I'm shocked because the mention of video extraction and burning Tivo videos to DVD seems to have become an acceptable topic all of a sudden. Merely implying you were thinking of extracting or copying Tivo videos would get you in deep doodoo in the past.
LMFAO

Hey, I bet I know where they can get a "deal" on some great filtering software to get rid of all this usefull information. There's a huge database of deals around somewhere, I heard.

Matt

[Jeanesco]

Originally posted by captain_video
I find this thread totally amazing and completely comical at the same time. You guys are going gaga over a feature that Tivo is implementing (TivoToGo) that is essentially a variation of a hack that was developed some time ago over at the No. 1 Tivo hacking site (hint: it ain't here).

What are you talking about? TivoToGo isn't at all similar to what is on the other forum. With TivoToGo you get some kick ass DRM restrictions and uber cool bandwidth bottlenecks. Want to know the best part? They are free!

[EwanG]

Having read all this, I'm tempted to write a very public letter thanking the great folks at TiVO for providing this functionality.

As I've mentioned elsewhere, I run Linux at home. I had been fretting that the only way I was going to be able to enjoy TTG was to do a mass conversion of our home computers back to Windows, and then all sorts of other work to avoid spending a lot of additional money networking stuff around the house to be able to serve up the content.

However, knowing that I can at least pull the shows off with my Linux box now, I can take the money I was going to spend on Windows licenses, go to Weaknees, and purchase their mondo TiVO, pay for a lifetime membership, and have everything I need by connecting a couple cables and a wireless adapter.

I have to think the second option is also more in TiVOs favor since spending my money on MS products is not as profitable to TiVO ;)

That said, I would assume that since I'm an authorized TiVO user (lifetime membership on my existing TiVO) that I can DL the desktop software, grab the codec files (similar to what one does for MPlayer) and then do anything else I reasonably need to do to view on my Linux box.

What I am actually more interested in, is how to make my home movies into .tivo files, and then push them to one or the other TiVO to watch. Has anyone found a way to do that yet with this new option?

Thanks,
Ewan

[swyatt]

Originally posted by EwanG


I have to think the second option is also more in TiVOs favor since spending my money on MS products is not as profitable to TiVO ;)


Interesting way of looking at things. But I personally make my purchases based on what is good for me, not some company that doesn't know me from Adam.

[captain_video]

What I am actually more interested in, is how to make my home movies into .tivo files, and then push them to one or the other TiVO to watch. Has anyone found a way to do that yet with this new option?
Don't know about doing it with the "new option" but you may want to do a google search for "ele2pestriple" (without the quotes). As I said previously, this stuff is old hat to the Tivo hacking community.:p

[AllAboutJeeps]

Originally posted by Jeanesco
... uber cool bandwidth bottlenecks. Want to know the best part? They are free!

Speaking of bandwidth bottlenecks, using TTG's web interface, I am downloading a show by right-click -> save as and only getting 589-616KB/sec! Pathetic! This is over a wired 100Mbps switch home network. I get better performance downloading software from asian countries through my cable modem...

...danny

[jmemmott]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As I said previously, this stuff is old hat to the Tivo hacking community.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The fact that extraction and insertion has been possible for some time has not been much of a secret. However, even the enthusiasts of the “other” site are quick to point out the difference of their goals. They are, in their own words, a “hobbyist” site, interested in how the Tivo ticks not an “end-user” site interested in the needs of the general public. If the goal was solely to extract video, then the combination Tivo/DVD burners that have been on the market for some time are actually superior to either of these other solutions.

Personally, I do not want to have to try to solder Prom sockets onto the Tivo mother board or protect my system from a feature update so I can protect the investment of my time used in hacking a kernel that is two years out of date. I want something that Tivo is willing to bless so that I can move forward with the features I want and still use my time for something that is more interesting to me.

That doesn’t that mean the “other” site has the wrong approach – just one that doesn’t appeal to me. I waited for Tivo because on balance it is a better solution for me.

[ZeoTiVo]

Originally posted by jmemmott
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As I said previously, this stuff is old hat to the Tivo hacking community.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The fact that extraction and insertion has been possible for some time has not been much of a secret. However, even the enthusiasts of the “other” site are quick to point out the difference of their goals. They are, in their own words, a “hobbyist” site, interested in how the Tivo ticks not an “end-user” site interested in the needs of the general public. If the goal was solely to extract video, then the combination Tivo/DVD burners that have been on the market for some time are actually superior to either of these other solutions.

Personally, I do not want to have to try to solder Prom sockets onto the Tivo mother board or protect my system from a feature update so I can protect the investment of my time used in hacking a kernel that is two years out of date. I want something that Tivo is willing to bless so that I can move forward with the features I want and still use my time for something that is more interesting to me.

That doesn’t that mean the “other” site has the wrong approach – just one that doesn’t appeal to me. I waited for Tivo because on balance it is a better solution for me.

Nicely said and I second it. Go to that forum and you will not find an easy follow this and install this and done. There a lot of smart people over there doing cool things but it is not for the avreage user and takes an investment in time up front and then when any new updates come down.
With TTG I can pull files off and do what I want with them from there. Thanks for the tip on ty files - if you wnat to be helpful instead of just sending us a l33t nyah nyah you could give more info on what tools work best with the TiVo mpeg format.;)

[Linus T.]

Originally posted by jmemmott
Personally, I do not want to have to try to solder Prom sockets onto the Tivo mother board

This is a common misconception. You do not need to install a Prom socket, you simply need to remove the pron, reprogram it, and solder it back in. This takes much less time than installing a Prom Socket.

[TechDreamer]

I have found the "other" site the most hostile and unfriendly place to try to learn Tivo hacking. The site has also become outdated and very unorganized. I have done some Tivo hacking and upgrading, but the time needed to really learn how to do everything can be daunting.

[VinceA]

Originally posted by Linus T.
This is a common misconception. You do not need to install a Prom socket, you simply need to remove the pron, reprogram it, and solder it back in. This takes much less time than installing a Prom Socket.
For the average user, the word "simply" usually doesn't go into a sentence that includes the words "remove the PROM", "reprogram", "solder".

[zleep]

Originally posted by TechDreamer
I have found the "other" site the most hostile and unfriendly place to try to learn Tivo hacking. The site has also become outdated and very unorganized. I have done some Tivo hacking and upgrading, but the time needed to really learn how to do everything can be daunting. Can you recommend a less outdated tivo hacking site?

[Linus T.]

Originally posted by VinceA
For the average user, the word "simply" usually doesn't go into a sentence that includes the words "remove the PROM", "reprogram", "solder".

Right you are, hacking is not for lamers. If you don't know how to fix a piece of equipment you should not have the cover open in the first place. That goes for Tivos, computers, cars, and any other expensive piece of hardware.

[DVDerek]

Will you guys all please go back to your "other forum?" If this place is so lame, why do you bother coming here? As stated in a much better reply previously, we're interested in moving forward without removing the cover of the TiVo and breaking out a soldering iron. We all bow to your technical prowess. Now go away.

Moving forward, I'd like to see a more sophisticated PC Frontend for TiVo To Go, a la JavaHMO.

[captain_video]

I have found the "other" site the most hostile and unfriendly place to try to learn Tivo hacking. The site has also become outdated and very unorganized. I have done some Tivo hacking and upgrading, but the time needed to really learn how to do everything can be daunting.
If you found it to be that way then most likely you went there looking for a handout. It's a hacker site, plain and simple. It's not for the "end user" as someone stated previously. If you go there looking for a simple how to then don't waste your time. You are expected to put forth some effort on your own if you want to learn how to hack a Tivo.

Performing a PROM removal is not for the faint of heart and most of the members at the "other" forum would not want to attempt it. Unless you know what you're doing you'll quickly turn your Tivo into a doorstop. The primary goal is to figure out a way to get the features we want without resorting to drastic measure. So far, just about every hack attempted has been accomplished, but it does take some time to find the right solution.

If the goal was solely to extract video, then the combination Tivo/DVD burners that have been on the market for some time are actually superior to either of these other solution
If that's the way you feel then get yourself a combo unit and be happy. Some of us like the ability to edit the videos and author them to DVD with menus and chapter stops for a more professional look. The one area that I would disagree with you on is that the quality of the video recorded on a combo unit will be comparable to a SA Tivo but will definitely be inferior to a DTivo recording. Extraction from a DTivo will also preserve the Dolby Digital soundtracks, if present. Your combo unit (and any other SA Tivo, ReplayTV, or whatever) will NOT record DD audio.

Right you are, hacking is not for lamers. If you don't know how to fix a piece of equipment you should not have the cover open in the first place. That goes for Tivos, computers, cars, and any other expensive piece of hardware.
Absolutely true and I couldn't have said it better. If you don't have the aptitude or the attitude, please don't come to the other forum. It is only for people that want to learn how to get the most out of a Tivo and don't mind a challenge. You'd be amazed at how easy it really is to incorporate most of the hacks but you need to learn the basics first.

Will you guys all please go back to your "other forum?" If this place is so lame, why do you bother coming here? As stated in a much better reply previously, we're interested in moving forward without removing the cover of the TiVo and breaking out a soldering iron. We all bow to your technical prowess. Now go away.
No problem. The only reason I came here is because someone posted a link to this thread at the other forum and I was curious to see what the fuss was all about. I realize hacking a Tivo is not for everyone. You can certainly wait years for DTV and Tivo to possibly give you a fraction of the same hacks we have and charge you extra for it or you can learn how to do it for yourself and enjoy them now at no charge. As to why I bother coming here, the answer is I really don't know since it really has nothing to offer to a Tivo hacker. If you just want to be a Tivo owner and a member of a social club then I guess this is the place to be. Enjoy your Tivo ToGo with the crippled functionality. I've got some DVDs to burn.:p

FYI - The AVS forums delved into Tivo hacking long before the other forum was started. I was a member of AVS and was following the Tivo hacking scene long before the date shown under my user name. It's just a shame the mods decided to banish almost all hacking talk but that's the reason the other forum was formed. In a way, you can thank the mods here for initiating the development of the hacks you guys may never hear about since they will bend over backwards to keep you in the dark.

[dswallow]

Originally posted by captain_video
If you found it to be that way then most likely you went there looking for a handout. It's a hacker site, plain and simple. It's not for the "end user" as someone stated previously. If you go there looking for a simple how to then don't waste your time. You are expected to put forth some effort on your own if you want to learn how to hack a Tivo.
For all the collective effort spent telling newbies to go piss off, it's a shame nobody there is willing to just add the missing 5 or 6 lines of helpful explanations to some of the instructions. ;)

[cat5]

Originally posted by captain_video
I 24 hours so read it quickly.;)

Hmm... 24 hours and the post is still here.

Maybe its because The forum operators feel a little safer now that video transfers functions are out in the open.
I've been debating what kind of discussions I allow on my own sites too. Its not that I have any alliengence to some big media company. No I presume the operator of this site falls under the same category as some of us.

a) College students
b) Developers who run forums as a spare time thing
c) small organizations

None of which has the resources to hire big time laywers if some company decides to go after us with something like the DMCA or some other ill conceived law.

Now as far as hacking the Tivo, Its best to keep your eyes and ears open , there's actually a lot of stuff in this release to explore. So don't go criticizing people. Most off us know where to find all the toys, and guess what there are other sites with toys too.

You boys and toys... e..gads.

I would more than gladly match my development (ok , hacking) skills hardware and software anytime.
But right now I think I'll go back to hacking the wireless protocol of my nintendo.

Take my signature line seriously.

[ZeoTiVo]

Originally posted by cat5

You boys and toys... e..gads.


:D

[EwanG]

Ahem...

If we can get back onto the subject, I'm wondering if anyone has determined if any of the ty based kits and their tools (how's that for being obscure) or anything else out there would let someone on a Linux box view their .tivo files? If not, has anyone tried the "experiment" of unpacking the TivoDesktop.exe file and grabbing the codecs to see if you could then play the file using MPlayer or XMMS.

Similarly, someone mentioned to look at "ele2pestriple" - but google gives a grand total of 10 entries almost all of which appear to be folks saying how it didn't work for them. Not encouraging.

I understand the concept of "if you want these features you should be willing to work for them". And I actually have been able to get help from "those other" forums if I'm willing to do the background work and ask specific questions. But I haven't wanted to open my TiVO up and possibly kill it through screwing around. That's why "I" at least am excited to get some of the same features you used to only be able to get by messing around with kernels and hacks. TiVO seems to have been willing to open the system up, and that is something I plan to vote in favor of soon with my pocketbook. Which is what most companies are looking for ("what can we do that improves the bottom line").

Anyway, if I could pull a .tivo off and then somehow get it back onto the TiVO, that would solve my biggest problem. If I could convert my home movies into .tivos, that would solve my second biggest problem. If I could then edit and playback the .tivos on my computer, that would solve my last problem.

Anyone who can spell out how to do any of those, I would appreciate it. I'd even be willing to give out some of my gmail invites if that would inspire anyone :-)

Thanks,
Ewan

[Eoghann]

Originally posted by dswallow
For all the collective effort spent telling newbies to go piss off, it's a shame nobody there is willing to just add the missing 5 or 6 lines of helpful explanations to some of the instructions. ;)

Well they can't. They'd be a associating with "lamers". And besides it would completely ruin their ego if they weren't "special" any more.

[dB02]

I hacked my TiVo before, but I unhacked it after the 2nd TiVo I got was a silver nightlight TiVo. Not wanting to do a PROM mod, but wanting to have MRV, I went back to non hacked land. This TiVoToGo seems to be a very toned down version of tools that were all available for my old TiVo, with less functionality. However I am going to try and use it because of my circumstances. Meh, I just want TiVo on my ARCHOS and MRV...

[cat5]

Originally posted by dswallow
For all the collective effort spent telling newbies to go piss off, it's a shame nobody there is willing to just add the missing 5 or 6 lines of helpful explanations to some of the instructions. ;)

Unfortunately thats how hacker sites are, the key is day one you bring them some useful info and come off really strong. I used to frequent it quite a bit, lately I just go there find the info I want and go to the source of the "code". I decided to go back , couldn't even remember my old user name so I set up a new one , that should tick them off to... Like I really care!

I'm more of a replaytv gal, but recently decided to take another look at the tivo, like what I see.

[captain_video]

Just thought I'd check back to see where the discussion was going.

For all the collective effort spent telling newbies to go piss off, it's a shame nobody there is willing to just add the missing 5 or 6 lines of helpful explanations to some of the instructions.
Sadly, there is a lot of animosity towards newbies, but mostly those that come there demanding help without bothering to read any of the forum FAQs, stickys or How Tos that are posted in plain sight. Ironically, it is also many of the newbies that jump on the bandwagon to bash the other newbies. The forum is cluttered with countless posts of this type and many of the rank and file just get fed up with the whining for help without any effort put forth on the part of the poster. Unfortunately, that seems to be the exception to the rule on far too many occasions. I usually go out of my way to help the newcomers if I know they've tried to find the answer on their own first or at least post their question intelligently and with some forethought.

Let's face it, the "other forum" is not for everyone. If you feel threatened or unwelcomed by going there then just don't go there as it is obviously not for you. I'm not trying to come off as superior to anyone, just trying to let you know that the latest software releases from Tivo are old hat to everyone at the other forum. Forgive me for trying to inform anyone here that there are alternatives to this forum and ways to get more enjoyment out of your Tivos. My bad.

If we can get back onto the subject, I'm wondering if anyone has determined if any of the ty based kits and their tools (how's that for being obscure) or anything else out there would let someone on a Linux box view their .tivo files? If not, has anyone tried the "experiment" of unpacking the TivoDesktop.exe file and grabbing the codecs to see if you could then play the file using MPlayer or XMMS.

Similarly, someone mentioned to look at "ele2pestriple" - but google gives a grand total of 10 entries almost all of which appear to be folks saying how it didn't work for them. Not encouraging.

I understand the concept of "if you want these features you should be willing to work for them". And I actually have been able to get help from "those other" forums if I'm willing to do the background work and ask specific questions. But I haven't wanted to open my TiVO up and possibly kill it through screwing around. That's why "I" at least am excited to get some of the same features you used to only be able to get by messing around with kernels and hacks. TiVO seems to have been willing to open the system up, and that is something I plan to vote in favor of soon with my pocketbook. Which is what most companies are looking for ("what can we do that improves the bottom line").

Anyway, if I could pull a .tivo off and then somehow get it back onto the TiVO, that would solve my biggest problem. If I could convert my home movies into .tivos, that would solve my second biggest problem. If I could then edit and playback the .tivos on my computer, that would solve my last problem.

Anyone who can spell out how to do any of those, I would appreciate it. I'd even be willing to give out some of my gmail invites if that would inspire anyone :-)
I'm the one that suggested the google search for ele2pestriple because I knew it would show you some links to the other forum. To be honest, I've never used that particular hack myself but a google search yielded several links to threads that discussed the process in some detail, which is why I provided it. I haven't read through all of the threads on the subject but I thought I had seen where it was now possible to export mpegs and other video files to a Tivo even though they were not in the native Tivo format.

There are hacks that will allow you to transfer or stream videos from your Tivo to your PC and watch them with Windows Media Player. You can also transfer ty files back to the same Tivo, a different Tivo, or directly between Tivos using a standard FTP program that supports FXP transfers.

As for screwing up your Tivo, unless you start screwing with the hardware (i.e., unsoldering the PROM) all of the hacks are software related. If you make a backup image of your Tivo drive using Hinsdale's How To and MFS Tools 2.0 there's little chance that you'll actually do any damage to the Tivo itself. The only thing you'll probably do is void the warranty by removing the cover. The best way to begin hacking is just to get a new hard drive (must be the same size or larger than the original), restore the image to it, and hack it to your heart's content. If something goes haywire and the Tivo refuses to work, and it probably will at some point, restore the backup image and start over. You can always keep the original drive for safekeeping and drop it back into the Tivo should you ever need it.

Most people are simply too nervous about hacking their Tivos because of the fear factor. I didn't know squat about Tivos, Linux, or hacking in general when I started out. I'm still a relative newbie when it comes to quite a few of the hacks yet I feel confident enough to know that I could probably install them and get them working if I take the time to read about them and understand what's going on. I'm probably no different than most of you when it comes to skill level or learning ability. I just have less fear of the unknown in this area which is why I can hack my Tivo and some of you never will. There's nothing superior about me other than perhaps my level of confidence in my own abilities. I already know that I'll probably screw up a hack (been there more times than I can count) but I also know that if I read and understand that the chances of getting it working right are greatly increased. I've actually learned more about my Tivo through my failures than from my successes.

Here's the bottom line on hacking a Tivo: If you can install a hard drive in a PC, set up the BIOS to boot from a CD-ROM, burn a CD image to a CD-R, read and understand basic PC concepts, and aren't frightened by using a command prompt then you can hack a Tivo. It really is that simple.

I use a series 1 SA Tivo with Turbonet for transferring my home movies from my camcorder and then over to my PC. It yields a better image than most standard video capture cards and is easy for me to use since I've already got eight Tivos connected to my home network. TyTools is an all-in-one utility for extracting videos, muxing to mpegs, editing, and creating a DVD fileset with titles, menus, and chapter stops. I believe it has also been compiled to work on a Linux box.

VideoReDo is a commercial editing program that works extremely well for editing Tivo files. Most commercial DVD authoring programs work with Tivo files but there may be some patching required to allow importing of the video files. SA Tivos can be set up to record in DVD-compliant resolution (720x480) via Tivoweb. DTivos record in 480x480 and cannot be altered without transcoding the video on your PC. Fortunately, 480x480 TyDVDs from a DTivo play fine on most late model DVD players since it happens to be the same resolution as SVCD discs and most current players will now play SVCDs.

I'd be more than happy to point anyone in the right direction that's interested in learning how to hack their Tivos. Just don't go into it thinking that someone will be taking you by the hand to show you every step you need to do. If you don't mind a lot of reading and have a bit of patience then come on over. If you want to wait 3 or 4 years and hope that some of the hacks will be incorporated into a production model then stay here and enjoy the social life.

[cat5]

Originally posted by captain_video
then come on over. If you want to wait 3 or 4 years and hope that some of the hacks will be incorporated into a production model then stay here and enjoy the social life.

Interesting quote from the other site, more of a general theme... Tivo to go, why bother.. what does it do for us... We have our way.

By not at least looking at tivo to go, I mean at its lowest levels, you may really be missing a golden opportunity.

There are folks in THIS forum who have already answered a lot of the questions the few who dare mention ttg are asking.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2504337#post2504337

[warewolf]

Whelp, after poking around I've come to a few conclusions.

1) the .TiVo files are encrypted via the TiVo on their way out of the unit
2) a .TiVo file pulled by TiVo Desktop v.s. the https interface are the same
3) the MPEG I-Frames are not encrypted (I've been able to play a .TiVo file with mplayer (mplayerhq.hu), albeit it is REALLY messed up)
4) the fingerprint section of .TiVo files is the same across all files from the same unit, but is unique to the unit

I'm suspecting that the "salt" section is used with the media access key, possibly the unit serial number, and maybe some magic value TiVo came up with. I so want to be able to view these videos under Linux, I don't run windows except for video games.

[cat5]

Originally posted by warewolf
videos under Linux, I don't run windows except for video games.

TTG uses a directshow filiter which manages the unencryption, I don't think you'll be able to handle that under linux. But once I get TTG give me a few weeks and I might have a different opinion.

Meantime I wonder if you could run it in win2k under VMware workstation .

[IO3]

Originally posted by DVDerek
Will you guys all please go back to your "other forum?" If this place is so lame, why do you bother coming here? As stated in a much better reply previously, we're interested in moving forward without removing the cover of the TiVo and breaking out a soldering iron. We all bow to your technical prowess. Now go away.

Moving forward, I'd like to see a more sophisticated PC Frontend for TiVo To Go, a la JavaHMO.

So you want a more sophisticated whatever, but you're telling us to 'go away'...have fun cracking this on your own JACKASS!!



:down:

[cat5]

Originally posted by IO3
So you want a more sophisticated whatever, but you're telling us to 'go away'...have fun cracking this on your own JACKASS!!

:down:

I'm sure I can.

Boys .. lets try and get along.

did you guys miss the sonic anouncement, It stated that with the plugin for mydvd you WILL NOT need the tivotogo desktop. If its like other plugins it will probably also work in reeldvd and maybe scenarist.

Also you can pull files off using the webserver in 7.1.

I think there is a lot here for both the technical user and the end user.
I don't even have tivo to go yet but I've been doing as much research as I can. Download the tivotogo desktop and start going through the registry entries it created for a good starting point.

[ZeoTiVo]

Originally posted by cat5
I'm sure I can.

Boys .. lets try and get along.

did you guys miss the sonic anouncement, It stated that with the plugin for mydvd you WILL NOT need the tivotogo desktop. If its like other plugins it will probably also work in reeldvd and maybe scenarist.

Also you can pull files off using the webserver in 7.1.

I think there is a lot here for both the technical user and the end user.
I don't even have tivo to go yet but I've been doing as much research as I can. Download the tivotogo desktop and start going through the registry entries it created for a good starting point.

and you thought I was bad at first :p

the plugin not needing TiVoDesktop is interesting. Obviously pulling the file off the TiVo just needs some HTTPS protocol code so that is not hard to do but it will be good to see decrypting from another program and see if they do anything different. Probbaly still puts some dll on the system though

[captain_video]

Interesting quote from the other site, more of a general theme... Tivo to go, why bother.. what does it do for us... We have our way.

By not at least looking at tivo to go, I mean at its lowest levels, you may really be missing a golden opportunity.
Trust me, it is most definitely being looked at with keen interest. What you guys don't understand is that every new version of the Tivo OS has more anti-hacking code built into it. Once the developers figure out how to circumvent the code it allows us to install any of the other hacks that have already been developed for even more functionality. We don't turn our noses down at the things Tivo and DTV are including in production units but rather we welcome the fact that the masses of non-hackers are now able to enjoy some of the same features we've incorporated into our units and enjoyed for quite some time now. Let's face it, if Tivo didn't do the work for you most of you would never have these features. We just didn't feel like waiting that long to enjoy them ourselves.;)

Did it ever occur to any of you that Tivo saw what we were doing and thought it was a pretty cool idea? Hacking is good for Tivo sales so while they don't necessarily condone what we do they have taken a neutral stance since it is probably doing them more good than harm. The technology generated at the other site eventually trickles down to the masses. Tivo just had to find a way to incorporate the functionality and still keep Hollywood happy which is how TTG came about in the first place.

You won't ever see these features included on a DTivo model due to potential conflict with the DMCA but that's where our site comes in. DVDs created from a DTivo are an exact copy of the original DTV digital signal as they are extracted and authored entirely in the digital domain. Potential copyright infringements with the DMCA will forever keep these features from appearing on a production DTivo. SA Tivos degrade the original signal due to the extra A/D and D/A conversions applied to the signal and therefore do not violate the DMCA.

[ZeoTiVo]

Originally posted by captain_video

snip

Did it ever occur to any of you that Tivo saw what we were doing and thought it was a pretty cool idea? Hacking is good for Tivo sales so while they don't necessarily condone what we do they have taken a neutral stance since it is probably doing them more good than harm.
most definitely - I would not have gone TiVo if I did not feel I had the plan B of just doing it myself if TiVo inc did not start delivering some of this :)
You won't ever see these features included on a DTivo model due to potential conflict with the DMCA but that's where our site comes in. SA Tivos degrade the original signal due to the extra A/D and D/A conversions applied to the signal and therefore do not violate the DMCA. be interesting to see what they start talking about delivering with the Cable Card TiVo. That will put the wrinkle of the DMCA right back in play for SAs. TiVo made a vauge statement of it supporting local network video, music and oictures via HMO and Broadband connections. They did not specify anything at all out of that statement - it looked like marketing plus Lawyers equal doublespeak to me.

[jmemmott]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
be interesting to see what they start talking about delivering with the Cable Card TiVo. That will put the wrinkle of the DMCA right back in play for SAs. TiVo made a vauge statement of it supporting local network video, music and oictures via HMO and Broadband connections. They did not specify anything at all out of that statement - it looked like marketing plus Lawyers equal doublespeak to me.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think they have pretty much telegraphed what they intend however. By adding support for the broadcast and macromedia flags, they have placed both the onus and (from Tivo's point of view) the blame onto the broadcaster. If the broadcaster sets the flag to limit recording to a single instance, then Tivo will honor it by counting the Tivo copy as the sole copy and not letting it off the box. They will be able to honestly tell everyone that to do otherwise is illegal so they can't do anything about it unless the broadcaster changes the setting. If we want it, we need to lobby the broadcaster not Tivo. Since the broadcaster is able to set the flag and control access, if the broadcaster doesn't set the flag and Tivo lets it out (HD digital or not), then the broadcaster didn't exercise due diligence and no court is going to touch Tivo under the DMCA. In fact if they tried to sue, the broadcaster would likely be liable for Tivo’s legal cost in this limited circumstance because their failure to act is so blatent.

[captain_video]

The anti-copying flag doesn't even come into play when performing direct extraction using the methods outlined at the other forum. I'd wager they probably will with the TTG option, however. If not now then sometime later I would think. Extraction from a HDTivo is already a possibility but not a practicality due to the limitation of single-layer recordable DVDs. One hour of HD programming requires about 8-10GB of storage so you'd be talking about a lot of discs for a 2-hour movie. Once HD-DVD recordable formats are introduced it will be another story altogether.

[jmemmott]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The anti-copying flag doesn't even come into play when performing direct extraction using the methods outlined at the other forum.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes but if you start ignoring the broadcast flags, you are getting into the world of illegal activity. Even the moderators of the other forum have indicated that they are not prepared to go that far. Their dialog about this was clear:

"If DirecTV thinks they can order a site to take down hacks, they're terribly mistaken"

"Incorrect. If DirecTV orders this site to take down hacks, they will be taken down without question or reservation".

None of my hobbies raise the type of life and death ethical issue that would make make me comtemplate breaking the law over them. Maybe yours do.

[classicsat]

captain_video:
I'm shocked because the mention of video extraction and burning Tivo videos to DVD seems to have become an acceptable topic all of a sudden.
That is becasue the "hacks" required defeating security measures.
What is being discussed here, is using the output of TiVo provided tools, although probably not in a manner intended.

EwanG:
That said, I would assume that since I'm an authorized TiVO user (lifetime membership on my existing TiVO) that I can DL the desktop software, grab the codec files (similar to what one does for MPlayer) and then do anything else I reasonably need to do to view on my Linux box.
If that means, on your windows box (with the decrypter and directshow filter), running the .tivo file through a convertors (such as TMpegEnc), to a format playable with Linux media players, yes.
If you mean to have a file you can do nothing with, you can do that straight with a linux box too.

[captain_video]

Yes but if you start ignoring the broadcast flags, you are getting into the world of illegal activity.
Only if you do so with the intent of distributing copyrighted material. The DMCA is still under a great deal of scrutiny with regards to fair use. Extracting videos shouldn't be deemed illegal if done so under the terms and definition of fair use for copyrighted material. What's the difference if I watch a recording from the Tivo itself or offload it to a DVD-RW to watch at a much later date in order to free up space on my Tivo? I do so all the time and then erase the recording from the DVD-RW when I'm through watching it. It's simply another method of timeshifting. I don't want to stir up another discussion on the DMCA as it has been beaten to death in every forum I've belonged to. The bottom line is that it's unlikely anyone would consider it illegal unless I started distributing the copyrighted material for my own personal gain.

I used to have a Hughes D-VHS VCR that worked in conjunction with a Hughes Platinum DTV receiver. It allowed direct recording of the DTV digital signal to D-VHS tape. It was basically a VHS version of a DTivo but without the Tivo features. The end result was a digital copy of the original DTV signal that I could archive and play back. Extraction to DVD from a DTivo is no different with the only exception being that I did not need a specific hardware combo in order to play it back on my TV.

That is becasue the "hacks" required defeating security measures.
What is being discussed here, is using the output of TiVo provided tools, although probably not in a manner intended.

Yes, by defeating security measures.;)

[ZeoTiVo]

Originally posted by jmemmott
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The anti-copying flag doesn't even come into play when performing direct extraction using the methods outlined at the other forum.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes but if you start ignoring the broadcast flags, you are getting into the world of illegal activity.
"If DirecTV thinks they can order a site to take down hacks, they're terribly mistaken"

"Incorrect. If DirecTV orders this site to take down hacks, they will be taken down without question or reservation".


I think if TTG was being downloaded onto DirectTiVos as well , that discussion in this forum would have been very limited. Still the discusion borders on illegal when you talk circumventing the encryption of a .tivo file. the only thing that makes it moot is these are analog files and TiVo can go directly after those that might share copyrighted material to freely.

but the digital content of a cable card TiVo puts us back on the same attitude as if we were talking about extracting from DirectTV. in the CES anouncement anyone hear of TiVoToGo for that cable card model or just the vague - we will have all video, music and pcitures over HMO and broadband

[cat5]

Originally posted by jmemmott
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
the type of life and death ethical issue that would make make me comtemplate breaking the law over them. Maybe yours do.

We're talking recording TV shows here aren't we? I don't think you need to worry about the DEA knocking your door down and shooting you unless maybe your some kind of super mass distributer.
Although I did once contemplate writing a short science fiction story about a future media police force.

The definition of ethics in the 21st century has really been stretched.

The following is my opinion and it differs from that of some others.

At best there is a very precarious relationship between the content providers and the oems that manufacture the equipment.

The content providers are well aware of the capabilities of all the new recording and storage devices, and worrisome about how easy it is to gather and store copyrighted material. But at the same time the smart ones see the business potential. The betamax case may of been somewhat of a stunning defeat for the studios but in its wake was created a very profitable aftermarket for vhs tape sales that would not of existed otherwise.

The manufactures on the other hand are not in some great conspiracy with the content providers, its just that the products they produce are virtually useless without content, and the distributors of that content are not going to provide it unless there are notable safeguards. DVD roms were quite slow to catch on on the PC, even though the drives were available there wasn't a whole lot of content.

If either one crosses the line it upsets the equilibrium, thus dispute what some people fear, you will never see a blanket banning of recording shows, you will see restrictions on so called high premium content , some cable and satellite programming , in particular ON Demand and HDTV content. And even there you may be able to view it over a limited period. You probably will not see a tivotogo for DTivo anytime soon.

You will see government regulation, both the electronic oems and the content providers are protected groups, representing a significant per captita of gnp. (and major campaign contributors)

I believe fair use may be twisted and stretched, but I doubt you will see any type of active monitoring of what is downloaded, for use in litigation.
The courts have so far been reluctant to prosecute individuals for just downloading material, rather going after those who distribute the content.

Likewise both the oem's and the content providers know that exploits will be found in whatever DRM they put in place. The oems are mandated to take all reasonable steps tp guard against the circumvention of the techniques employed. What both groups count on is that the number of people with the necessary technical skills to defeat the measures is far outnumbered by the average users who do not have the skills. Care must be taken however by all parties that the environment doesn't provide a bigger breeding ground for organized crime , which has already exploited illegal duplication of tapes and DVD's. One could find an argument in had there been no prohibition would orgamized crime have gained the foothold it had in the twenties?

[jmemmott]

I do not disagree with you. I think that your analysis and comments are a valuable addition to this thread.

Yes - I also know that I am unabashedly quaint in my belief that in a nation of laws, one supports the laws that exist unless one has a good reason to do otherwise and if one doesn’t like following the law, one should try to change it. I do believe something is lost ethically when alternatively, laws are seen as something to get away with breaking (unless the risk of getting caught is too great of course). Oh, well.

In any case, my comments started out focused on what Tivo might do with CC models, TivoToGo and the fact that I don’t think their strategy needs to change because of the HD environment. They are following a path that effectively seeks to immunize themselves from both liability with respect to broadcasters and blame with respect to their customer base. As a business in the current environment this is probabily the best they can hope for.

It was suggested that hacker sites would do better but looking at the fate of bit torrent trackers, deCSS sites, … belies that.

Can individuals go deeper under cover to try to do something without getting caught? Certainly, but I do not want to follow that path so I am here in this forum which is focused on a solution Tivo and I can both live with. Some seem to think that consciously accepting those limitations is not an acceptable choice. I humbly disagree.

[AbMagFab]

DRM and fair use copyright law are in conflict. The broadcasters are trying to use digital means to force the issue, when in fact they are, without a court hearing, deciding that DRM beats out fair use.

The same happened with CSS and DVD's.

The result for DVD's has been DeCSS.

The result for "broadcast flag" will be the same.

If your intent is to simply back-up, or use another medium for your own personal use, then you are (arguably, and de-facto so far) protected under fair use.

Unfortunately, no one seems willing to take this to court, so instead we get crap like CSS, the broadcast flag, the iTunes nonsense, and a bunch of other current and upcoming DRM junk.

But as has been clear for so long, if they build it, and it prevents fair use, it'll be broken. You'd think they'd learn by now.

[DVDerek]

Originally posted by IO3
So you want a more sophisticated whatever, but you're telling us to 'go away'...have fun cracking this on your own JACKASS!!

My original post was directed at those from the "other forum" who couldn't understand why some of us would want to pursue a channel that wouldn't require replacing the PROM even if it gave us less functionality. If you're truly interested in investigating the featureset provided by TiVo To Go, then by all means, unleash your l33t h4x0r skillz. :)

[ZeoTiVo]

Originally posted by AbMagFab
Unfortunately, no one seems willing to take this to court, so instead we get crap like CSS, the broadcast flag, the iTunes nonsense, and a bunch of other current and upcoming DRM junk.

But as has been clear for so long, if they build it, and it prevents fair use, it'll be broken. You'd think they'd learn by now.

indeed - and due to lack of support for Mac platform and DVD burning the encryption of .tivo files is already a moot point 8 days after release to a small population. People are figuring out how to use the TiVo desktop dll install and tools like Nero and AVISynth to reencode the .tivo files as something useful on their chosen platform and use, and the beat goes on.
;)

[beefjello]

Hi, I'm new. I've tried the web access w/ the https: // <my ip address> link and cannot seem to access my tivo at all. Just gives me the "page not displayed" page (the page you are looking for does not exist). Not sure why. Does this require that people have the upgraded (v. 7.x) version of tivo software cause i still only have my original 5.x version. And, before you ask, yes i did replace the <my ip address> with my actual tivo ip address. And i also have the latest version of tivo desktop/tivo server installed on my computer.

also, to make sure i'm doing things right, whats the best way to check if i'm using the correct ip address for the tivo?

thx in advance.

[TiVoBill]

Please refer to this thread for TiVo's position on TiVoToGo DRM:

TiVo's position on stripping DRM from programs transferred using the TiVoToGo feature (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=217488)

[gonzotek]

TiVoBill,
What's your(TiVo's) position on the xml data provided by the (unsupported) TiVo webserver feature? I ask because I intended on continuing development of my php class that retrieves the xml data and parses it out to meaningful arrays. If TiVo disapproves of this line of development I don't want to run afoul of them.

My thread:For PHP coders: class TiVo_XML (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=217329)

[TiVoBill]

Originally posted by gonzotek
TiVoBill,
What's your(TiVo's) position on the xml data provided by the (unsupported) TiVo webserver feature? I ask because I intended on continuing development of my php class that retrieves the xml data and parses it out to meaningful arrays. If TiVo disapproves of this line of development I don't want to run afoul of them.

My thread:For PHP coders: class TiVo_XML (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=217329)

I don't want to get into legal talk (we have lawyers for that), I would think that using the XML data from the unsupported web interface would be fine, as long as it was not used to circumvent the encryption of .tivo files or to violate the copyrights of others.

[gonzotek]

Originally posted by TiVoBill
I don't want to get into legal talk (we have lawyers for that), I would think that using the XML data from the unsupported web interface would be fine, as long as it was not used to circumvent the encryption of .tivo files or to violate the copyrights of others. No nothing like circumvention (that's best left to smarter and more daring people than I). Just parsing the data from xml into php data-structures, for use in things like RSS feeds for blogs or personal databases of viewed programs.

[warewolf]

Personally, I think that DIVX/MPEG4 compresses better than MPEG2. MPEG2 is old. If TiVoToGo just gave us straight mpeg, the first thing I'd do is transcode it to MPEG4, so I could put gobs and gobs of recordings on one CD. MPEG4 isn't compatible with 99% of today's DVD players, but then again, viewing TiVo recordings on your PC is half of the point of TiVoToGo, right?

I would like to see linux support for the TiVoToGo .tivo files under linux, be it open source, or closed source. I don't care which it is, aslong as I get it.

Either way, I'm trying to figure out how to view the videos under Linux without using the DirectShow filter. It'll take me a year, but I'll figure it out eventually.

[AnotherWin95]

Originally posted by beefjello
Does this require that people have the upgraded (v. 7.x) version of tivo software cause i still only have my original 5.x version.

The 7.1 upgrade is required before this becomes functional.

[AnotherWin95]

Originally posted by justmike
How about some screen shots of the web server side of this for those of us with the DVD that will probably not see it otherwise till later this year :(

Mike

Here ya go - in an attachment.

Classic in this one.

[AnotherWin95]

Originally posted by justmike
How about some screen shots of the web server side of this for those of us with the DVD that will probably not see it otherwise till later this year :(

Mike

And Folder View.

[maggard]

Originally posted by warewolf
Personally, I think that DIVX/MPEG4 compresses better than MPEG2. MPEG2 is old.
Ahem! Some of like to think of it as "mature" (thankyouverymuch).

MPEG2 doesn't require licensing. It runs on low-cost hardware. Most importantly, it was available when the TiVO architecture was being defined and MPEG4 wasn't.
Originally posted by warewolf
If TiVoToGo just gave us straight mpeg, the first thing I'd do is transcode it to MPEG4, so I could put gobs and gobs of recordings on one CD.
There is no such beast as "straight MPEG". The Motion Pictures Expert Group is a standards setting body, not any particular compression system.

As to transcoding, you do realize that each time you recompress the material you're losing yet more quality? With the overly-compressed digital most cable plants are pumping out, which is then converted to analog by your cable box, then redigitized and recompressed to some quality setting by your TiVo in it's MPEG2 variant, it's already pretty rocky. To now pull it back out and stuff it into yet another format, well, pretty it ain't gonna be.
Originally posted by warewolf
MPEG4 isn't compatible with 99% of today's DVD players, but then again, viewing TiVo recordings on your PC is half of the point of TiVoToGo, right?
Well, yeah, half.

However are you willing to man the phones at TivoCo trying to explain there'd be TWO flavors of TiVoToGo files and one type only one works on many (but not all!) newer DVD player and the other type works on only a terribly small set. Oh and folks need TWO codecs to make 'em work, etc.

Sorry, I'm in favor of KISS.
Originally posted by warewolf
I would like to see linux support for the TiVoToGo .tivo files under linux, be it open source, or closed source. I don't care which it is, aslong as I get it.


Either way, I'm trying to figure out how to view the videos under Linux without using the DirectShow filter. It'll take me a year, but I'll figure it out eventually. [/B]
I honestly don't see that as being very likely.

I can imagine no end of clever things involving scripts pulling files through a miniature Windows install under Wine or such but extracting material completely sans DirectShow, without something more being released by TiVO, it seems improbable. That would mostly likely be based on platform popularity and therefore I'd expect Macs and their QuickTime architecture to be next, Linux much later.

Not meaning to be a downer on your whole posting, and I've some MPEG4 files from the online free Prelinger Archives that are spectacular, but unless size is extremely important, and quality and (re)compression time aren't, then MPEG4 seems a non-starter.

Perhaps in the TiVo Series 3.

[dswallow]

Originally posted by maggard
MPEG2 doesn't require licensing.
MPEG-1 doesn't require licensing. MPEG-2 does.

http://www.mpegla.com/m2/

[inio]

Originally posted by maggard
MPEG2 doesn't require licensing.

Erm, excuse me? If anything, MPEG2 Video has more strict licensing than MPEG4 Video. This is why you have to pay for real MPEG2 codecs (free ones are typically illegal and in violation of international patent law). MPEG4 Video (DivX/XVID/MP4V) is protected by patents too, but the holders haven't gotten around to exercising them, much.

Originally posted by maggard
extracting material completely sans DirectShow, without something more being released by TiVO, it seems improbable

Well, the DirectShow API is well documented. Assuming that the DLL doesn't rely on too much of the Win32 API and isn't packed in some protection, it should be possible to create a wrapper that links to the DLL and pulls the .tivo through it, outputting MP2V and MP2A streams that can then be re-muxed.

Note that any such system would clearly be in violation of the DMCA. Well, the compiled binary would be. The source code might not be if I remember DeCSS correctly. A T-shirt with the source almost certainly wouldn't be. A dramatic reading of the source couldn't be, could it?

[dswallow]

Originally posted by inio
Well, the DirectShow API is well documented. Assuming that the DLL doesn't rely on too much of the Win32 API and isn't packed in some protection, it should be possible to create a wrapper that links to the DLL and pulls the .tivo through it, outputting MP2V and MP2A streams that can then be re-muxed.

Note that any such system would clearly be in violation of the DMCA. Well, the compiled binary would be. The source code might not be if I remember DeCSS correctly. A T-shirt with the source almost certainly wouldn't be. A dramatic reading of the source couldn't be, could it?
I really don't think that would be violating the DMCA; you're not circumventing it, you're using a documented feature of DirectShow in a manner intended for it to be used. You're not reverse engineering, nor bypassing any security on the content since you're entering the password and decrypting it using provided tools specifically for that purpose.

You can readily write your own filter that has priority for the media types the TiVo filter uses and also outputs the same data to downstream filters and Windows would load your filter to connect to it as the normal process of making the connection graph.

TiVo's filter becomes synonymous with something like WinZip.

[inio]

Originally posted by dswallow
I really don't think that would be violating the DMCA; you're not circumventing it, you're using a documented feature of DirectShow in a manner intended for it to be used. You're not reverse engineering, nor bypassing any security on the content since you're entering the password and decrypting it using provided tools specifically for that purpose.

You can readily write your own filter that has priority for the media types the TiVo filter uses and also outputs the same data to downstream filters and Windows would load your filter to connect to it as the normal process of making the connection graph.

TiVo's filter becomes synonymous with something like WinZip.

All of what you described constitute circumvention devices. The intent of the access restriction is to require you to enter the password EVERY TIME you access the protected media. By producing an unprotected copy of the media, whether informationally identical or recompressed, you are circumventing that access restriction.

edit: everything previously below this line has been confirmed to be misinformation.

[Linus T.]

Originally posted by inio
The only reason that the official DVD burning solution is legal is because:
1. It is authorized, and
2. It places the media in an equivalently, though differently, restricted medium.

Remember that despite its widespread use DeCSS is still illegal, so ripping that DVD you make with the official tool is just as illegal as extracting the original MPEG2 stream from the TiVo. If anything it's more so, because you're circumventing both the CSS encryption AND the TiVo content protection system (Which the CSS encryption has become part of).

How exactly do you expect to write a CSS protected disc in a consumer grade burner?

Is this forum some sort of a joke? It is brimming over with misinformation.

[inio]

Originally posted by Linus T.
How exactly do you expect to write a CSS protected disc in a consumer grade burner?

Is this forum some sort of a joke? It is brimming over with misinformation.

Err, probably the later. Was a guess.

[dswallow]

Originally posted by inio
All of what you described constitute circumvention devices. The intent of the access restriction is to require you to enter the password EVERY TIME you access the protected media. By producing an unprotected copy of the media, whether informationally identical or recompressed, you are circumventing that access restriction.

edit: everything below this line is possibly misinformation, please take with a grain of salt

The only reason that the official DVD burning solution is legal is because:
1. It is authorized, and
2. It places the media in an equivalently, though differently, restricted medium.

Remember that despite its widespread use DeCSS is still illegal, so ripping that DVD you make with the official tool is just as illegal as extracting the original MPEG2 stream from the TiVo. If anything it's more so, because you're circumventing both the CSS encryption AND the TiVo content protection system (Which the CSS encryption has become part of). I also have a feeling that the TiVo recordings will be flagged for Macro-Vision encoding, preventing you from recording them to a VCR or video capture card. Finally I'd wager that the official burning solution limits the number of DVDs that can be burned containing a given TiVo recording.
But that's the thing, I'm not circumventing anything; I'm recording video playing back on my computer; the circumvention would be to take the original file and try to create your own decoder; I wouldn't be doing that; TiVo's decoder is feeding me the info unencrypted and tha'ts the info I'm working with. I never touch the encrypted file. Nor am I doing anything that's not publicly documented by Microsoft for DirectShow.

CSS information exists on an area of the DVD not writable by a consumer recorder; what TiVoToGo-authorized DVD recorder software will be doing is writing a normal, unencrypted DVD. Which you could immediately open on oyour computer and copy anywhere you wanted; it'll be a regular VOB file like any other DVD, and unencrypted.

[ReadOnly]

Ahem, sorry to make a post that is back on subject of this thread....is anyone able to actully download off the web address of the tivo?
I do get a now playing list and such, but I am not able to get any movement from clicking the download link.

[AllAboutJeeps]

Originally posted by ReadOnly
Ahem, sorry to make a post that is back on subject of this thread....is anyone able to actully download off the web address of the tivo?
I do get a now playing list and such, but I am not able to get any movement from clicking the download link.

Is TiVo DT working for downloads? I read somewhere that Parental Controls must be turned off to enable downloads. Just a random guess. Good Luck!

...danny

[shady]

Originally posted by ReadOnly
Ahem, sorry to make a post that is back on subject of this thread....is anyone able to actully download off the web address of the tivo?
I do get a now playing list and such, but I am not able to get any movement from clicking the download link.

And while we are back on topic, did anyone findout if there are URLs for the ToDo list or Season passes etc. It would be useful to be able to visualize these on one page or even print them off, without having to see just a few per screen on the TiVo

[gonzotek]

Originally posted by shady
And while we are back on topic, did anyone findout if there are URLs for the ToDo list or Season passes etc. It would be useful to be able to visualize these on one page or even print them off, without having to see just a few per screen on the TiVo Just asked about the same thing here:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?postid=2516281#post2516281

Really hoping we get a reply in the positive!

-=Gonzotek=-

[paslax]

Not sure if this was ever confirmed. I can confirm it. The now playing list and downloads can be accessed from outside IPs. There is no restriction to LAN IPs. The router must be configured to allow 443 (for browsing) and 80 (for downloading).

If you're looking to get to your dynamic IP home network, I use no-ip.com. There are other dynamic dns services available.

[gonzotek]

Originally posted by paslax
Not sure if this was ever confirmed. I can confirm it. The now playing list and downloads can be accessed from outside IPs. There is no restriction to LAN IPs. The router must be configured to allow 443 (for browsing) and 80 (for downloading).

If you're looking to get to your dynamic IP home network, I use no-ip.com. There are other dynamic dns services available. :) Thanks for the confirmation. Of course, that means my ISP must be blocking port 80 on me :mad:

[ShutterPriority]

Originally posted by gonzotek
:) Thanks for the confirmation. Of course, that means my ISP must be blocking port 80 on me :mad:

Actually, I thought I had read somewhere that port 80 was not allowed to be used off the local subnet by the Tivo box, only port 443/SSL? can go "off net" -- but if you're NATing I dont' see how it would know...

Now I need to find that thread again...

[paslax]

If that is the case, my tivo didn't get the message ;) If you find the thread you're talking about, post the link. Maybe there is a difference in setup...?

[jmace57]

Originally posted by EwanG

What I am actually more interested in, is how to make my home movies into .tivo files, and then push them to one or the other TiVO to watch. Has anyone found a way to do that yet with this new option?


Me too!

Jim

[stiffy1k]

Does this "feature" only work after Tivo2go has been installed? I have been waiting over 2 weeks now for it to automatically install with no luck. Any way to install it manually?

[maggard]

For an excellent how-to for extracting Tivo recordings to a Windows XP machine, with links to the required files, check out {deleted by moderator}

No connection, just a link that's making the rounds to a particularly well written web page



{edit by mod: Links to sites that discuss extraction are not allowed on this forum. Please read the sticky at the top of the happy hour.

Thank you.}

[Kracko]

I've used that link and now have my .tivo files saved as .mpeg but when I try to write them to DVD (2 hour show = 2.4GB) the software, MyDVD claims it won't fit on 4.5GB blank DVD I have in the machine. Any suggestions on how to make it fit?

[posicat]

I started writing something similar in Perl, so if any of you are interested in Perl code for reading the XML files, here you go...

threadid=220350 (I'd post a link, but I haven't posted enough It appears)

[sayonaraML]

Okay, was able to log in, found my files, download one. Now its on my desktop and how am I suppose to play it?:confused:

[thehand]

do you still need the 7.1 upgrade to use this site?

and where would I find my tivo ip. I looked in system messages and set up and didn't see it.

[paslax]

Yes, you will need 7.1 before using the Tivo web server. You can find the IP in TiVo->Settings->Phone and Network.

[TomJHansen]

Or you can look at your DHCP clients table and look for the TSN's.

[MikeRadio]

How coem I can use the tivo web server from my house

But from outside it seems unavailable...

Is there any port changesi n the firewall program.router I need to change....


It just doesnt load the page from outside my home network

[Lon]

Originally posted by MikeRadio
How coem I can use the tivo web server from my house

But from outside it seems unavailable...

Is there any port changesi n the firewall program.router I need to change....


It just doesnt load the page from outside my home network

Unless your TiVo has a static, Internet IP (highly unlikely) you will have to configure your router to forward port 443 (my oops - I originally wrote 80) requests to your TiVo's local net IP.

[paslax]

Both 443 and 80 (if you want to download).

And no-ip.com can provide dynamic dns (if you have a dynamic IP).

[Lon]

Originally posted by paslax
Both 443 and 80 (if you want to download).

And no-ip.com can provide dynamic dns (if you have a dynamic IP).

Thank you :) -- I am still waiting for 7.1 upgrade <sigh> so am writing off the cuff, as it were.

Some ISPs block incoming port 80 requests (don't know about 443) so even a router adjustment might not work unless incoming port is rerouted.

[jtbmoore]

my 443 is blocked by isp. any way around this with a linksys

[enodev]

Not sure what types of routers this will work on, but it works on my firewall/router.

You can use SNAT/DNAT to translate bogus ports to 80 and 443 on your TiVo.

Example:
<internetIP>:50080 -> <tivoIP>:80
<internetIP>:50443 -> <tivoIP>:443

To access the nowplaying list:
https://<internetIP>:50443/nowplaying/index.html

Only problem is when you click on the download link you need to manually add :50080 the URL: http://<internetIP>:50080/downloads/.....


Good luck.

[Lon]

On a Linksys, visit your routers configuration via http : //<router ip>/Forward1.htm (can't post regular url yet)

[jazzy_james]

Can someone please post the steps in configuring the port forwarding on the linksys wrt54g? thanks!

[daz0r]

Hey guys,

I just got the 7.1a update (TivoToGo) and I can cannot to port 80, but not 443 (HTTPS, SSL).

I did an NMap portscan and 80 is the only one open.

Other interesting facts:
- I rebooted my Tivo, no effect
- When I go to the sys info section and look at my media access key, it says "Temporarily not available"

I can get it off the web site just fine, but it bothers me that the Tivo doesn't know its own MAK.

I ensured that my tivo is set to "Allow Transfers" on the web site.

I just disabled it and then re-enabled it, so maybe that will fix it or something.

Would that account for the fact that only port 80 is available?

Thanks for any help

[ThreeSoFar]

I just checked, and I'm also at 7.1a, 7.1a-01-2-140 to be exact, and I still see the page on port 443.

Was there a 7.1 and this is new since then, or was this what we all got with TTG when it finally came?

[daz0r]

Originally posted by ThreeSoFar
I just checked, and I'm also at 7.1a, 7.1a-01-2-140 to be exact, and I still see the page on port 443.

Was there a 7.1 and this is new since then, or was this what we all got with TTG when it finally came?

Sorry about my poor grammar and incoherent writing, lol. I was typing fast and furious and didn't proof read.

I meant I *CAN* connect to 80, but no other ports are opened.

7.1a is the first update I got (I woke up this morning and it was there). I'm not sure if there was a 7.01 or just a 7.1 (no 'a'), but 7.1a is the first one I saw.

7.1a and now 443 (HTTPS).

Any thoughts? Anyone else seeing this?

I did have parental controls enabled. I disabled them, but still no love.

I went on the web site and unchecked "Allow Transfer" and re-checked it. I haven't done an update on the tivo yet because it's in the room where my baby's taking a nap. It'll have to wait, lol.

[jmarcus]

How do I determine what my TiVo's IP address is? The IP address listed in the Phone / Network setup screen is just the local IP address (192.168.1.100). Wheres the IP address for accessing the TiVo outside of my local network.

Thanks.

[shady]

Originally posted by jmarcus
How do I determine what my TiVo's IP address is? The IP address listed in the Phone / Network setup screen is just the local IP address (192.168.1.100). Wheres the IP address for accessing the TiVo outside of my local network.

Thanks.
It is your router that has "global" the ip address, and this is the IP address you need to access from outside your network. You need to look at your router settings to find that IP address. You then need to open some ports so that they are re-directed to your TiVo. I think someone listed the ports you need either earlier in this thread, or another thread in this forum

Edit - Port 443 is the one you need to forward

[jmarcus]

Thanks Shady.

[jazzy_james]

how can I port forward my 2 tivos? I have set port forwarding for my living room tivo already, but don't know how to set my bedroom tivo up. Any suggestions???

[ThreeSoFar]

Different ports for different TiVos.

[jazzy_james]

from this thread, I am currently using port 80 and port 443 for my living room tivo. which ports should I use for my other tivo?

[daz0r]

Originally posted by jazzy_james
from this thread, I am currently using port 80 and port 443 for my living room tivo. which ports should I use for my other tivo?

What he means is, use different Internet-facing ports and map them to your TIVOs, for example:

I = Internet
T1 = Tivo #1
T2 = Tivo #2

Port 9999 I -> Port 443 T1

Port 10000 I -> Port 443 T2

Open port 9999 and 10000 on your router and redirect them to port 443 on T1 and T2 respectively.

[daz0r]

By the way, if anyone cares, I fixed my problem.

For some reason, when my Tivo got upgraded to 7.1a, it didn't pick up my "Allow Transfers" setting from tivo.com.

I had to turn off "Allow Transfers", wait 2 hours, update TiVo, re-enable "Allow Transfers", wait 2 hours, update TiVo.

Then, viola... port 443!

[Kristo]

Got 7.1 last week - got my ports routed last night. Today when I got to work I was able to login to my TiVo box & few my Now Playing. I downloaded a 30 min. program and it did just fine. Extremely slow though, as others have noted. It began downloading around 130kb/sec but quickly slowed down & capped around 56k/sec. Not good enough to use now, but I'm excited about the future. Thanks to everyone who has been contributing to this thread!

[thehand]

this tivotogo feature is not what I expected. it seems that I have to go to the internet to transfer a file that is in the same room.

[ashu]

Originally posted by thehand
this tivotogo feature is not what I expected. it seems that I have to go to the internet to transfer a file that is in the same room.

Inaccurate info and inappropriate thread!

Read the FAQs and documentation.

[WebHobbit]

Has anyone using this browser based method of transfers managed to find a Windows web-browser that will allow them to download a tivo file larger than 4 gigs?

The latest builds of both Firefox and IE both have a limit of 4 gigs. Really sucks to have to use the crappy Tivo bloatware to download shows that are 2hours+ in length (HQ).

I much prefer the browser method as the Tivo software insists on loading up it's server stuff and then trying to keep running in the background after I'm done with the program. I don't serve up music or anything from my PC to the Tivo so I don't see why I need to run server software.

:(

The worst part is the Tivo Desktop app automatically sets registry entries to autoload the server thingie at windows boot EVERYTIME you run the thing. So I got to MSCONFIG and disable it....then the next time I have to download a file larger then 4 gigs I have to do it all over again.

ARRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH

[ashu]

Its not a browser shortcoming! FAT32 formatted partitiions on your disk, under Windows 2000 or XP, cannot support files larger than 4GB.

Use a real OS (sometimes infeasible, I know! :D ) or have an NTFS formatted partition available! No such file-size limits. (are there any?)

[WebHobbit]

Yes it is. I have confirmed this to be a Windows Browser shortcoming. I haven't formatted a drive with anything other than NTFS in about 2 years!

All of my harddrives are NTFS. See here:

http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/ubb.x/a/tpc/f/99609816/m/549001478631

OS is quite "real" BTW (XP Pro SP2 with all patches).

[davezatz]

What about Opera? Or I wonder if some of the more complete FTP programs support https without file size limitations.

CuteFTP Pro lists it as a feature....
http://www.globalscape.com/cuteftppro/features.asp?sessionid=ehezkg55cgj2y245bdnwb3ut

[delfuego]

this tivotogo feature is not what I expected. it seems that I have to go to the internet to transfer a file that is in the same room.

How much money you wanna bet his laptop is accidentally connected to the wireless access point of his next door neighbor?

[AnteL0pe]

Tried lynx ?

[ashu]

Originally posted by WebHobbit
Yes it is. I have confirmed this to be a Windows Browser shortcoming. I haven't formatted a drive with anything other than NTFS in about 2 years!

All of my harddrives are NTFS. See here:

http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/ubb.x/a/tpc/f/99609816/m/549001478631

OS is quite "real" BTW (XP Pro SP2 with all patches).

I stand corrected! Although I'm still doubtful about theclaims alluding to the "real"ness (reality!) of XP :p

[WebHobbit]

:D

[jazzy_james]

Originally posted by daz0r
What he means is, use different Internet-facing ports and map them to your TIVOs, for example:

I = Internet
T1 = Tivo #1
T2 = Tivo #2

Port 9999 I -> Port 443 T1

Port 10000 I -> Port 443 T2

Open port 9999 and 10000 on your router and redirect them to port 443 on T1 and T2 respectively.

And how do you do that on a linksys wrt54g router? I can't seem to figure that out still. I can only see my main tivo unit online since I port forward to both 80 and 443 for that unit. how do I do that again for my second tivo unit. sorry for the ignorance.

[rog]

Originally posted by jazzy_james
And how do you do that on a linksys wrt54g router? I can't seem to figure that out still. I can only see my main tivo unit online since I port forward to both 80 and 443 for that unit. how do I do that again for my second tivo unit. sorry for the ignorance.

actually, i just looked at the port forwarding page for my wrt54g (firmware 3.01.3) -- which is under the "applications and gaming" section -- and apparently you cannot do this type of port forwarding.

the port forwarding on the wrt54g is really limited/simple. it looks like this:

Application | Start | End | Protocol | IP Address
bittorrent | 6881 | 6889 | tcp | 192.168.1.2
tivohttp | 80 | 80 | tcp | 192.168.1.3

"Application" is just a name you assign to that particular line. 192.168.1.2 would be the address of a PC running bittorrent. 192.168.1.3 would be the IP address of a tivo. so connections to port 6881-6889 of the router's public IP address would be routed to the same ports on the PC, and connections to port 80 (http) would be forwarded to the tivo.

i can see why they designed it this way, it's very simple. but unfortunately this design will make it difficult to route the tivotogo ports to multiple tivos. :(

anybody that can think of a workaround?

[morac]

Originally posted by rog
actually, i just looked at the port forwarding page for my wrt54g (firmware 3.01.3) -- which is under the "applications and gaming" section -- and apparently you cannot do this type of port forwarding. If you install a 3rd party firmware you can do this very simply, but how to do so and how they work is beyond the scope of this forum. You can check out this forums (http://www.linksysinfo.org/modules.php?name=Forums) for information on 3rd party firmware on Linksys products.

If you don't want to install a 3rd party firmware, you can actually do this type of forwarding, but it is not intuitive and I believe it requires having a machine with Windows XP on your network to set it up. Also it isn't persistent so if the router reboots you'll have to set it up over again:

First enabled UPNP on the WRT54g, make sure the "Network Services->Internet Gateway Device Discovery and Control Client" component of windows XP is installed (via add/remove windows component in the add/remove programs control panel).

This will get UPNP working. With UPNP you can do the type of forwarding you want. You need to Open the Control Panel in Windows XP and click on the Network and Internet Connections option, then click on Network Connections. After that you should see a connection entitled "Internet Connection". Right click on this icon and choose properties and in the new window that pops up click settings. Click Add and you can add a new port forwarding rule and specify not only the port to forward (external port), but also what port to forward it to (internal port). See the images on the page (http://www.fulton.net.au/qt030.htm) to see what I'm talking about.


Like I mentioned, that's a convoluted way of doing things so if you don't mind 3rd party firmwares you should use them.

[davera98]

confession: i am a newbie

i have tried to access the web page on my LAN (not going through my router from the outside world) and my browser cannot find using https my local tivo IP .

also has anyone struggled to use tmpegenc on tivo files? mine crashes whenever I load a tivo file. i am using the plus version

[TiVore]

Question for any of you gurus.

I have successfully been able to remote into my S2 box from work, having forwarded the ports on my Linky WRT54G to the IP of my TiVo.

Although the "now playing" page loads ungodly slow, I can see it.

Problem is, when I click on one of the show links to download one of the shows, no matter how small, I always get "connection timed out with the server" (or something similar) after about 20-30 seconds.

Any idea why I can't download? I'm on a T1 at work which isn't the fastest, but it should be enough.

Oh, and PS: I have a bit fat Verizon fiber pipe at home...

[ashu]

With T-1 and fiber on the two ends, this *shouldn't* happen. But I haven't tried it yet myself (half T at work and slow cable at home) to know for sure :)

Anyone else?

<edit> Have you tried anything else from work to home? File transfers, pings, remote xterms (or desktops) or anything? this could be a network issue, not a setup issue on your part/end!

[TiVore]

Good question. Actually yes, I have remoted into my machines at home and everything works fine. There's just something weird about trying trying to download shows off my TiVo box remotely that doesn't work.

Not a big deal, I guess...I wasn't planning on watching the stuff at work, anyway. I just wanted to see if it was possible to do it, cause I think it's kinda cool.

[jazzy_james]

Originally posted by rog
actually, i just looked at the port forwarding page for my wrt54g (firmware 3.01.3) -- which is under the "applications and gaming" section -- and apparently you cannot do this type of port forwarding.

the port forwarding on the wrt54g is really limited/simple. it looks like this:

Application | Start | End | Protocol | IP Address
bittorrent | 6881 | 6889 | tcp | 192.168.1.2
tivohttp | 80 | 80 | tcp | 192.168.1.3

"Application" is just a name you assign to that particular line. 192.168.1.2 would be the address of a PC running bittorrent. 192.168.1.3 would be the IP address of a tivo. so connections to port 6881-6889 of the router's public IP address would be routed to the same ports on the PC, and connections to port 80 (http) would be forwarded to the tivo.

i can see why they designed it this way, it's very simple. but unfortunately this design will make it difficult to route the tivotogo ports to multiple tivos. :(

anybody that can think of a workaround?

thank god it's not me. I have my wr54g configured similarly and it works fine. I believe you need to port 443 too to enable download. I don't want to run a 3rd party firmware. I was glad linksys updated their firmware recently to allow for WDS since I got the Apple Airport Express for christmas. Before their update, people had to use 3rd party firmware. I'm not going down that road still. Owell...

[rog]

that's cool jazzy_james. i actually only have 1 tivo, so this won't be an issue for me either. i was just looking for an answer for you when i realized you can't remap port numbers with the wrt54g's stock firmware.

thanks for the workaround ideas morac.

as an aside, some of the tricks you can do with 3rd party software on the wrt54g are pretty cool. i've been running batbox linux on the ramdisk for a while:

http://www.batbox.org/wrt54g-linux.html

it's neat that it uses the ram to store the image; it doesn't actually replace (flash) the existing firmware, it just sits there running alongside it...

anyway, i'm still waiting for 7.1, so no ttg for me yet. :( at least i will know what to expect (or not) from the service when i do get it.

[TK421]

Originally posted by TiVore
Question for any of you gurus.

I have successfully been able to remote into my S2 box from work, having forwarded the ports on my Linky WRT54G to the IP of my TiVo.

Although the "now playing" page loads ungodly slow, I can see it.

Problem is, when I click on one of the show links to download one of the shows, no matter how small, I always get "connection timed out with the server" (or something similar) after about 20-30 seconds.

Any idea why I can't download? I'm on a T1 at work which isn't the fastest, but it should be enough.

Oh, and PS: I have a bit fat Verizon fiber pipe at home...

Two thoughts, first do you have port 80 open in additon to 443? (Show transfers happen over 80, Now Playing is over 443). Secondly, even if you have 80 open on your router, does your Verizon block it at their end? I've got Charter, they block 80 incoming so I had to use uPnP to route it to a different port.

[TiVore]

Ahhh...I bet that's it. I do have port 80 open, but I but you Verizon is blocking it inbound. I heard such a rumor before, perhaps it's true.

I've never used upnp to route a port to a different port...is that hard to do? I am running my WRT54G with alternative firmware, WiFiBox...

[rog]

it doesn't look too hard, morac posted complete instructions above.

and it looks like your wrt54g with wifibox might be able to handle the task directly as well:

http://www.google.com/search?q=wifibox+port+forwarding&hl=en

hope that helps.

[endigo]

Has anyone with 7.1 tried telnet-ing, ftp-ing, VNC-ing or browsing into the open ports that were discovered?

[thehand]

is it just my machine or does it take longer to download the tivo file than the duration of the tivo file is long?

[Amnesia]

The time necessary for transfer depends on the quality level used for recording and the network connectivity of your TiVo (and, of course, the length of the recording).

[thehand]

Originally posted by Amnesia
The time necessary for transfer depends on the quality level used for recording and the network connectivity of your TiVo (and, of course, the length of the recording).

thanks.

could you elaborate a bit further?

what path is the file transfer from the DVR's hard drive taking to get into my computer?

the DVR and the computer are connected to each other by ethernet to a switch which is connected to a router which is connected to a cable modem compliments of Comcast Broadband.

the computer runs windows xp and its connection speed within this network is 100 mbps. shouldn't the transfer speed be no less than this? if not, why not?

[CrispyCritter]

Originally posted by thehand
the computer runs windows xp and its connection speed within this network is 100 mbps. shouldn't the transfer speed be no less than this? if not, why not? The TiVo CPU is the likely bottleneck. It's involved in a whole lot of activities that are of higher priority than TTG (including getting the current incoming show recorded and getting the current show being watched to the TV.)

[Amnesia]

Also, don't forget that the TiVo is connected to the network via a USB adapter. That places a hard upper limit on possible transmission speed.

However, as CrispyCritter mentioned, it is thought that the TiVo CPU is the bottleneck. Even if it isn't doing other tasks, it still needs to process the show as it's sent over the network (we don't get just a copy of the file as it sits on the TiVo's hard drive).

[thehand]

Originally posted by Amnesia
Also, don't forget that the TiVo is connected to the network via a USB adapter. That places a hard upper limit on possible transmission speed.

However, as CrispyCrittermentioned, it is thought that the TiVo CPU is the bottleneck. Even if it isn't doing other tasks, it still needs to process the show as it's sent over the network (we don't get just a copy of the file as it sits on the TiVo's hard drive).
Amnesia

thank you, CrispyCritter and Amnesia. I can take that and given this bottleneck the functionality is still useful because although I can edit and compress a show in the time it takes to transfer it, I still would have to capture the show. the Desktop (Tivo Desktop) allows transfer of more than one show at a time where capturing requires my attendence for each show.

I successfully did a transfer. I selected the show hit play, was greeted with the dialogue to enter my password and said password entered, Windows Media Player inititiated, did some processing and returned the message "...could not play the file. The Player may not support the file type or the required codec might not be installed on the computer."

I hate it when that happens

BTW-- is it true that having the DVR in standby mode hastens the transfer?

[Amnesia]

I can't believe that it really makes that much of a difference (if at all).

[SonicJMC]

I really need to know what ports the web pages on the TiVo are using. I want to be able to port forward through my router.

[SonicJMC]

For some reason, FireFox is UNBELIEVABLY faster than IE or the official TiVo software at transfering TiVo videos. About 3 times faster!
Only catch - One file at a time, no batch transfering.

[mearlus]

Google is your friend :)

HTTPS isn't anything new that Tivo created. It's a standard. It runs on port 443.

[ddv]

So - has anyone figured out the username/password for downloading shows when parental controls are turned on? It prompts for a username/password when trying to download them so I'm guessing some pair would work.

Now - wouldn't THAT be cool?!? :cool:

[gonzotek]

Google is your friend :)

HTTPS isn't anything new that Tivo created. It's a standard. It runs on port 443.
And just for completeness sake, non-secure (regular) http runs on port 80. There are a few other ports relating to TiVo services(on the PC side), but those are the two (80 & 443) you'd need for the webpages from a TiVo unit to work correctly.

So - has anyone figured out the username/password for downloading shows when parental controls are turned on? It prompts for a username/password when trying to download them so I'm guessing some pair would work.

Now - wouldn't THAT be cool?!? :cool:
Has anyone tried using the parental code in place of the 'tivo' username? I'm not near my TiVo at the moment, so I can't try it now.

[ddv]

Has anyone tried using the parental code in place of the 'tivo' username? I'm not near my TiVo at the moment, so I can't try it now.

Sorry - forgot to mention I tried many different combinations of MAK, playback password, parental control password, and "tivo". Can't seem to find one that works.

[AnteL0pe]

For some reason, FireFox is UNBELIEVABLY faster than IE or the official TiVo software at transfering TiVo videos. About 3 times faster!
Only catch - One file at a time, no batch transfering.
I get about the same transfer speeds using FireFox and Safari on a Mac and FireFox on a Windows machine (50-70K/sec), havent tried IE. Is it possible to to multiple file transfers at once with IE? I assumed that the TiVo was limiting the number of transfers on the box....

[Kristo]

Has anyone with 7.1 tried telnet-ing, ftp-ing, VNC-ing or browsing into the open ports that were discovered?

I've tried FTP-ing into it - doesn't work. I think someone posted in another thread about scanning for open ports, but not finding anymore that we know of. Sorry, haven't tried any other way to connect. It would be great if someone found a way into this (especially FTP)!

[thehand]

I heard somewhere that you can get VLC player to play these Tivo files. So far, all I get is a black screen and no audio, but the scroll bar indicates the movie is playing as the scroll knob moves per navigation buttons.

the windows media player plays the movies just fine but you can't see the scrubbing action. I like to see where I'm going when I scroll.

Or may there's another player out there with scroll/scrubbing functions.

Thanks

[davezatz]

Or may there's another player out there with scroll/scrubbing functions.

Sadly, the .tivo file is hobbled in how it can be played/manipulated and WMP is underfeatured. I've had good luck 'unlocking' the file and playing it through WinDVD. :cool:

[thehand]

"Sadly, the .tivo file is hobbled in how it can be played/manipulated and WMP is underfeatured. I've had good luck 'unlocking' the file and playing it through WinDVD. "

OK so how do you unlock the tivo file?

[rog]

we are not allowed to talk about "unlocking" (or "extraction") on this forum. try google! :)

[jhackney]

I attempted to enter the IP of my Tivo in both IE and Firefox, but browsers cannot find server (https://<tivo ip>/nowplaying/index.html). However, I can ping the box.

Also, how can one telnet into the Tivo?

[rog]

I attempted to enter the IP of my Tivo in both IE and Firefox, but browsers cannot find server (https://<tivo ip>/nowplaying/index.html). However, I can ping the box.

Also, how can one telnet into the Tivo?

you have to hack the tivo to enable telnet, ftp, and so forth. if you have a newer series II (the 540 series, your service number will start with 540), it will be much harder to hack. older models are a bit easier, in general, but they all vary.

to be honest, you can probably find more info on this on the other forum, which will probably be edited out here, but it is called deal database. you can google "tivo forum" to find it.

[fluffie]

Is there any way around it if my ISP is blocking port 80? I've seen several references to this problem in this thread but no real answers. At least not that I understand. :( I can get to the web interface on my tivo at home, but not at work (outside my home network).

Can we tell tivo somehow to listen on another (unblocked) port?

It's been suggested that I can pay Comcast another $20/month for a static IP and unblocked access, but since I'm already paying them $130/month it's not worth it to me...

[rog]

Is there any way around it if my ISP is blocking port 80? I've seen several references to this problem in this thread but no real answers. At least not that I understand. :( I can get to the web interface on my tivo at home, but not at work (outside my home network).

Can we tell tivo somehow to listen on another (unblocked) port?

You can't tell the TiVo to listen on a different port, no. However, in some cases (depending on which model of router you have), you can have your broadband router forward a port other than port 80 to your TiVo's port 80. It would work something like this:

your public IP address, port 888 ----> your TiVo's IP address, port 80

888 is a random port number I pulled out of thin air. Let us know what model of router you have (LinkSys WRT54G, etc.), and we can probably be of more help. Of course, if you do have the WRT54G, all the instructions are already in this forum. I can point you to the correct post if you can't find them.

[fluffie]

Thanks! I have a Linksys BEFW11S4 router (wireless access point + cable/dsl router with 4-port switch). still having trouble with the location and syntax of configuring it in this way. perhaps i am in over my head.

I double-checked the IP on my tivo box as I found I could no longer get the web access at home. It had changed from 192.168.1.101 to 192.168.1.100

This was a surprise to me. :eek: I found I could assign static IP to the tivo..

So I guess my problem was not that port 80 was being blocked, cause I now have everything working, both inside and outside my home network :cool:

Rog, I see you got a haircut. Nice.

[startblazer]

I've been reading all of this with great interest. After weeks of waiting, finally 7.x installed last night. Ironically I can download faster to my linux box (RH9) via the web (firefox browser) than I can to my wintel box (XPSP2).

I tried copying the TiVoDirectShow.dll to the /usr/lib/win32 directory on my box. I use xine (seems to play more than mplayer for me). It didn't decode it, but it did play a nice pretty green screen. mplayer on the other hand just crashed with sig 11 and a lot of other gcc compiling tips.

I'm not too good with the whole code thing so I tried things like renaming to DirectShow.dll and forcing mplayer to use directshow codecs. Still no go. Made a desperate attempt to mod mplayers codec config file (no i really don't know what i'm doing here, just thought I'd try it) and only succeeded in getting mplayer to now open .TiVo files. Still crashes out with a can't find audio codec error (something like 0x05, it flashes past real fast).

Hope this helps. Anyone have any ideas?? My laptop is linux so that is where the "ToGo" part would be most useful for me.
I do a lot with Nero too, but haven't had a chance to try to recode as earlier suggested.

[SonicJMC]

I've been reading all of this with great interest. After weeks of waiting, finally 7.x installed last night. Ironically I can download faster to my linux box (RH9) via the web (firefox browser) than I can to my wintel box (XPSP2).

I tried copying the TiVoDirectShow.dll to the /usr/lib/win32 directory on my box. I use xine (seems to play more than mplayer for me). It didn't decode it, but it did play a nice pretty green screen. mplayer on the other hand just crashed with sig 11 and a lot of other gcc compiling tips.

I'm not too good with the whole code thing so I tried things like renaming to DirectShow.dll and forcing mplayer to use directshow codecs. Still no go. Made a desperate attempt to mod mplayers codec config file (no i really don't know what i'm doing here, just thought I'd try it) and only succeeded in getting mplayer to now open .TiVo files. Still crashes out with a can't find audio codec error (something like 0x05, it flashes past real fast).

Hope this helps. Anyone have any ideas?? My laptop is linux so that is where the "ToGo" part would be most useful for me.
I do a lot with Nero too, but haven't had a chance to try to recode as earlier suggested.


Only thing I know, and this is rediculous and I know because I have basically the same problem just a different platform, is you'd have to make .TiVo in to .mpg using your Windows box. Clunky and time consuming at best.

[LordKronos]

What about Opera? Or I wonder if some of the more complete FTP programs support https without file size limitations.

To anyone having trouble downloading 4GB and larger files. You need 2 things. First, you need to have a drive or partition formated with NTFS (which everyone seems to have figured out). Next, you need a program that can download the large sized files. Since it seems several of you have already confirmed the popular browsers don't support it, I didn't even try. I skippped right to using Free Download Manager (which you can also link into Firefox if you install the FlashGot extension) and it had no trouble at all with a 5GB file.

The only thing to note is that, if you use the integration into firefox, when you click on the link for the movie and then choose to download using FlashGot, the movie will be added to Free Download Manager, but it won't be aware of the username and password for your tivo box. Go into Free Download Manager, right click on the file and choose "Download properties", check the box that says "Login is required" and then enter "tivo" and your MAK as the username and password. Then you can click OK, right click on the file again, and select "Start download"