Mac Users lack Tivo togo support [Text View] - Page 6

Bob Williams

07-14-2006, 03:47 AM

Doesn't mean the program can handle the data it's passed(e.g. imagine passing Paint an mp3).

Actually, it does. OS X, like previous Mac OS versions, includes a mechanism for apps to tell the OS what file types they can handle. The OS then uses this information to build the Open With list. As a result, you won't get an option to open an MP3 file in a paint program unless the paint program can handle an MP3 file (and in this age of QuickTime integration, you may be surprised what programs can handle - for instance, the BBEdit plain-text editor has no qualms about opening images, even though you can't do much with them once open).

That said, although the program is technically guaranteed to open the file, it may not do what you expect. This is especially the case for something so basic as a text file. For instance, many programs use text files to store configuration data, and will thus offer to open *any* text file even though they only know what to do with *one* text file. As you get to even slightly more proprietary/purpose-specific file types, however, this problem basically vanishes.

I'm not really familiar with the equivalent mechanisms in other OSes, but I would assume they operate similarly. If not, then those OSes' developers came up short.

TydalForce

07-14-2006, 07:28 AM

you can actually override this "i can open that!" check... on occasion, its missing something I know it can open... or, maybe you just want to see what happens...

if you control-click on a file, select Open With, and at the bottom there's an option "Other"....
select that, and then when the browse window appears, one of the selectors at the top says "Recommended Applications" - if you change this to "All Applications", you can have anything try to open anything.

Granted, that's usually not necessary. But if you're feeling silly, try to have Address Book open an mp3 or something :b

gonzotek

07-14-2006, 09:27 AM

Actually, it does. OS X, like previous Mac OS versions, includes a mechanism for apps to tell the OS what file types they can handle. The OS then uses this information to build the Open With list. As a result, you won't get an option to open an MP3 file in a paint program unless the paint program can handle an MP3 file (and in this age of QuickTime integration, you may be surprised what programs can handle - for instance, the BBEdit plain-text editor has no qualms about opening images, even though you can't do much with them once open).

That said, although the program is technically guaranteed to open the file, it may not do what you expect. This is especially the case for something so basic as a text file. For instance, many programs use text files to store configuration data, and will thus offer to open *any* text file even though they only know what to do with *one* text file. As you get to even slightly more proprietary/purpose-specific file types, however, this problem basically vanishes.

I'm not really familiar with the equivalent mechanisms in other OSes, but I would assume they operate similarly. If not, then those OSes' developers came up short.No disrespect intended, but I think you've missed my point. I've owned pre-OSX Macs and worked with newer ones in the recent past, and I am familiar with the equivalent mechanisms on Mac OS and Windows systems(and they work very similarly indeed). TydalForce has it right, the selection box doesn't do anything other than manipulate associations, whether automatically based on registered filetypes or manually overridden. In any event, I was just pointing out to Dan that the UI he was referring to wasn't a part of TiVo Desktop, nor did it give us any indication what TiVo had done, other than use VLC, to get playback working on OSX.
http://community.livejournal.com/tivolovers/253645.html

tonyf3

07-29-2006, 01:43 AM

Hmmm, June,....July.....August? August will make it 8 months since the demo at CES.
I wonder what's holding them back.

cwoody222

07-29-2006, 10:22 AM

Their own ineptitude? PR-friendly features like KidZone that barely anyone cares about? The fact that they don't care?

bedelman

07-29-2006, 10:04 PM

Their own ineptitude? PR-friendly features like KidZone that barely anyone cares about? The fact that they don't care?More likely the legal department that requires that some form of DRM is being used (and that must match what's being used already) -- and implementing a DRM on the Macintosh side is taking a lot more effort than expected.

cwoody222

07-29-2006, 10:41 PM

So then... poor planning? Not putting enough resources to the task to meet the goal in a reasonable timeframe?

This is THEIR program with THEIR DRM. This has been their decision... and their holdup... since day one.

They can't blame anyone but themselves.

And since iPod and PSP videos from the new TiVo Desktop can be played with nothing but a watermark, if they wanted to do the same thing for Mac users who have been waiting almost a year and a half they could do so... and they could do so at any day.

They choose not to. Their delay. Their decisions. Their fault.

Dennis Wilkinson

07-29-2006, 10:58 PM

And since iPod and PSP videos from the new TiVo Desktop can be played with nothing but a watermark, if they wanted to do the same thing for Mac users who have been waiting almost a year and a half they could do so... and they could do so at any day.

Er, no.

What, exactly, would apply that watermark? The TiVo itself doesn't have the horsepower, which means you'd still need to decompress and recompress the video on the Mac (meaning you'd still need to decode the DRM on the Mac, and then you'd need an encoder license as well.) Watermarking, in this case, solves nothing -- in fact, it adds work.

You're right that TiVo is the one making the decisions, and that "the buck stops there"; that doesn't mean that trying to go the QuickTime route didn't slow them down unexpectedly, as Bob infers.

cwoody222

07-29-2006, 11:00 PM

Who wants to bet what comes out first - TiVo ToGo for Mac or Windows Vista?

Puppy76

07-29-2006, 11:42 PM

Vista :down: :mad:

tonyf3

07-30-2006, 10:56 PM

I do hope that when and if TTG finally comes out for Mac I'm not seriously underwhelmed.
That would just be the icing on the cake. I'll just be sitting there going,.."I waited 2 years for this?"

AnteL0pe

07-31-2006, 11:26 AM

I do hope that when and if TTG finally comes out for Mac I'm not seriously underwhelmed.
That would just be the icing on the cake. I'll just be sitting there going,.."I waited 2 years for this?"
Would you expect anything else? If it isnt tightly integrated with iTunes/iMovie/iDVD it will be underwhelming. Im sure there wont be the issues that existed on Windows when it first came out (burning issues, requirements to purchase certain software, CODEC issues), but it wont be what Mac users are used to.

cat rancher

08-01-2006, 11:11 PM

Wow, still nothing... What can I say? does my G5 even really need tivo to go now? I keep thinking about all I could do with it, but at this point I wonder if I even care anymore.

Also, my "TIVO RECOMENDED" netgear wireless adapter (WG111NA - the one with the cute tivo guy sticker on it) is still only getting 30% signal after the last update that fracked it up A YEAR AGO!!!! (ok it was 8-25-05 according to my post at the time) Tivo to go would be useless to me anyway since they are not going to attempt to fix what went wrong with THE ONE TRULY recomended adapter sold on the planet. (At least until they came out with their own brand) I HAVE WAITED A YEAR!!! So it's not just Mac's they have a problem with...

Why do I even let it stress me out? I bought my wife a GPS system for her car but I have to go to my brother in laws house to load maps onto it since it isn't supported for Macs and we both have macs. (Garmin has announced that they would be adding Mac support by the end of this year though)

I'm not a gamer, but I do play one game on my Mac: Halo (halo 1 of course, there are no plans to realease 2 or 3 to mac. Nice of microsoft to buy out the only company to make good games for Macs and then stop them from making more.) My G5 has a craptacular ATI Radeon 9600 for a video card so I can't turn any of the video settings in Halo up and keep it playable. It's only $400 for the ATI pro mac x800 card, but I can't justify spending that to play one game - I might as well buy an x-box 360 and all three versions of Halo. The same card is about $150 for a PC. All the while I have to listen to my brother in law and his wife rib me because they have no problems playing games on their lame Dell xps. Just the other day I mentioned the problem with the graphics card and my sister in law asked if I had seen the most recent Apple commercial and then snickered.

I don't know why I still love my Mac, but I do. Anytime I have to use a PC I get the same sick feeling I would if I were to find out I was getting audited by the IRS. It just feels like shopping at K-mart or something.

Dr_Zoidberg

08-03-2006, 01:11 AM

Who wants to bet what comes out first - TiVo ToGo for Mac or Windows Vista?

Duke Nukem Forever :D

StStephen

08-03-2006, 10:18 AM

Anytime I need a good chuckle I read a few pages of mac whining. Thanks for keeping it up!

briguymaine

08-03-2006, 11:08 AM

@ cat rancher

Holy cow, buy a PC already (or an iMac with Intel and Boot Camp). You pay a bit more for a mac because you are getting a better machine when you buy it, a stock mac will outlive a stock PC anyday. Obviously down the road there will be better components that you can upgrade to. It will cost more to upgrade because 3% of the population will even remotely find the parts useful and maybe 25% of those folks will actually buy those parts.

I feel your pain but come on, you decided on a mac and I'm sure you knew the limitations going into it.

Puppy76

08-04-2006, 08:07 PM

Duke Nukem Forever :D

In all seriousness...there's a good chance of that :eek:

Hey, PREY came out, and that was announced when, '95? Even weirder, it turned out to be a really great game!

Ripcord2

08-05-2006, 02:13 AM

Yeah, I've just about gotten to the point where I've completely lost patience. No HD and no Mac support has pretty much eroded all my good will and after 3 years I'm looking at other options.

I'm very tempted to at least TRY the Comcast DVR box, despite no (real) Mac support. I've had an HDTV for a while, and just bought a nice 42" plasma that just feels like it's going to waste. I'd like to put some HDTV on it!

Does anyone have recommendations on a decent alternative?

rmclaugh

08-05-2006, 07:37 PM

A lot of people have been waiting a long time for this support.
My main complaint about this whole fiasco is that, while I paid the same price as someone else did for their TiVo, and I pay the same monthly fee (or one time fee) as someone else, I get LESS out of my TiVo.
When I bought my two TiVo's (over a year and a half ago) TiVo was PROMISING mac support. Now, almost two years AFTER T2G came out, nada, zilch and someone has the nerve to post about "You knew what you were getting into?"
Apparently TiVo didn't, so how could I?

At the very least, TiVo, admit you aren't going to do it and cut the price for the Mac users. You can disable the T2G links on the TiVo's remotely.

This is like me and a friend buying the same car, same price, same specs, but his goes 50% faster than mine.... If no replacement were available, I'd expect a discount, wouldn't you?

Budget_HT

08-06-2006, 10:13 AM

This is more like your friend's car able to go 100 mph on roads available to him and yours can only go 50 mph on roads available to you. Both cars have exactly the same capabilities, but yours is limited by where you drive it.

All TiVo's come with the same TTG capability, but since you drive a Mac instead of a PC, your combination has limitations.

That said, we all look forward to Mac TTG from TiVo. And they did say a long time ago that we should have seen it by now.

tonyf3

08-07-2006, 10:44 PM

Anytime I need a good chuckle I read a few pages of mac whining. Thanks for keeping it up!

People in this thread have been able to avoid this kind of petty OS bashing for almost 2 year now. If you've read through you'd know that, and there is no place for it here.

However, a poke in the eye deserves a poke right back.
Anytime there's a new windows virus I chuckle for weeks, I watch as entire IT departments and windows users scurry like rats on a sinking ship.
Mac users relax, sip cocktails and enjoy the chaos from afar.

Have a nice day.

rworne

08-08-2006, 07:11 PM

I wonder if Microsoft canning development of WMP for the Mac had anything to do with this.

They are using an MS DRM method aren't they?

Oh, and you all are misinformed, TiVo2Go does run on a Mac, and has since April 5, 2006.
.
.
.
.
.
Provided you are running Bootcamp
(sorry)

gonzotek

08-08-2006, 09:16 PM

They are using an MS DRM method aren't they?No, Microsoft offers a variety of drm solutions, but TiVo's encryption technology was developed in-house by Arthur Van Hoff, a former TiVo engineer. That the decryption currently only takes place in the Windows DirectShow system is incidental to the chosen encryption format.

Rosincrans

08-08-2006, 10:16 PM

The Tivo Desktop Get Started Link is down. Is this Tivo 2 Go for Mac coming? Or just another Windows update? Or Website Error? Time will tell.

gonzotek

08-08-2006, 10:23 PM

The Tivo Desktop Get Started Link is down. Is this Tivo 2 Go for Mac coming? Or just another Windows update? Or Website Error? Time will tell.It's probably this...Just a heads up for everyone, there is an updated version of Desktop coming that should take care of the crashes some of you have seen.

It'll be Version 2.3a, and it will be out very soon (days, not weeks...and maybe even hours, not days). ;)

Thanks for the detailed reports here, this kind of information is useful.

Cheers,
Ponyhttp://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=4261297

cwoody222

08-09-2006, 10:03 AM

FYI: still down

http://www.tivo.com/4.9.4.1-2.asp

Although I bet it's just a mistake.

TheSlyBear

08-09-2006, 03:28 PM

The Tivo Desktop Get Started Link is down. Is this Tivo 2 Go for Mac coming? Or just another Windows update? Or Website Error? Time will tell.

LOL! You can definitely tell you're one of us Mac enthusiasts who, every time the Apple store goes down, speculates on what new and wonferful things will appear!

cwoody222

08-09-2006, 03:44 PM

And it's back up. Nothing new yet. They're still "working hard". Wow, they must be ready to drop dead from exhaustion...

http://www.tivo.com/4.9.19.3.asp#4

rkester

08-09-2006, 04:30 PM

A little FYI for yall relating to this thread...

If you havent already checked it out, VisualHub 1.1 was just released recently and has a new app included called TivoGoBack, which turns on a Movies tab in the TivoDesktop software. You can at least for now share video back to the Tivo from your Mac this way. And VH is rocking good video conversion utility with tons of formats. If you convert video at all, this is a great way to do it. BTW, TivoGoBack does support .Tivo files you've pulled off a unit via a PC as well. (It allows the Tivo unit to see the .tivo files, VisualHub does not convert these obviously.)

VisualHub at Techspansion:
http://www.techspansion.com/visualhub/

My thread on it here:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=309877

TivoGoBack is not supported or endorsed by Tivo.

cwoody222

08-09-2006, 04:35 PM

I currently use ffmpegX to convert files to .tivo format then use Galleon to transfer to TiVo for playback.

Transfer is easy. Galleon's always running on my Mac so I just dump the files to a folder and within a few seconds TiVo "sees" them and transfers them just about at real time.

There's a show coming up that I'm recording that I KNOW I'm going to want to take screenshots of. Since my .tivo files won't play on my Mac I was forced to use my ReplayTV to record this show. (sidenote: my ReplayTV will allow me to take a screenshot right from my couch OR play the file on my Mac and do a capture there)

rkester

08-09-2006, 04:38 PM

I believe Tyler is using some of ffmpeg's stuff in the background to help with conversion. Then agian, who isnt? lol.

I used Galleon for a while but it kept crashing my Mac and my tivo so I stopped.

Honestly, VisualHub's util is so easy I wont go back to Galleon.
I burn dvds of my shows off th tivo itself and rip/convert them with VH and then I am good.

I am honestly suprized that VLC hasnt added .tivo file support. Wonder why not, seems like the perfect place to utilitize it.

tonyf3

08-10-2006, 12:00 AM

Since TiVo Pony was kind enough to give us the bread crumb of a general time frame that's about to expire. I'm wondering if he'd care to give us a vague update on the generalized time frame.

Otherwise I'm thinking there will be new elected officials in goverment before we see this thing rolled out.

Puppy76

08-10-2006, 12:35 AM

Elected officials?

bedelman

08-10-2006, 12:37 AM

Elected officials?As in November (at least)

cwoody222

08-10-2006, 03:51 AM

I could care less about having TiVoPony grace us with a comment. Just give us the damn software already!

homertime

08-10-2006, 06:53 PM

This is getting beyond ridiculous.

Anyone could argue that there are many things holding it up, like the fact that all of Apple has officially switched over to Intel.

Keeping that in mind, the new intels were out in January, giving more then adequate time to create something for mac.

I was also disappointed that we didn't find anything out from WWDC - I was hoping something would pop up there hinting to some support for us in the near future.

I'm going to assume until proven otherwise that this TTG for Mac idea is trashed, and I will do the same to Tivo come the end of my subscription.

They can't even give me a freeking "unused space" estimator, how can we expect TTG for mac?

They'll continue to give us stupid kid friendly features, and stupid games, and built in advertisements and continue to neglect such useful options.

I'm done with Tivo, I can't wait for my subscription to be over. This is just ridiculous, and too much neglect for too long for useful features.

rkester

08-10-2006, 06:54 PM

Any chance the Windows version will work in Virtual PC?

or on the intel macs under parallels/vmware style environment at least?

derekcbart

08-10-2006, 07:07 PM

Any chance the Windows version will work in Virtual PC?

or on the intel macs under parallels/vmware style environment at least?

Yes, TiVo Desktop 2.2 works in Virtual PC. This is what I do. The file is not watchable in either Windows or Mac due to skipped frames and dropped audio, but there is a way to convert the file in a manner that will make it burnable to DVD using Toast 7.0.2 (Toast 7.1 does not work, btw). If you are interested in what you need to do to make this work just PM me.

I do not have an Intel Mac, but my understanding is that TiVo Desktop works the same using Boot Camp or Parallels as it does on any Windows XP only machine.

JetPilot

08-10-2006, 07:24 PM

there is a way to convert the file in a manner that will make it burnable to DVD using Toast 7.0.2

Is this something that can't be posted here? Is so, how about a link to somewhere that describes the process. I have saved many files to the mac to free up TiVo hard disk space and would love to burn a DVD that I can play.

errandwolfe

08-10-2006, 07:24 PM

tonyf3

08-13-2006, 09:51 AM

I have found a very interesting way to utilize TivoToGo....

Using Parallels I have a copy of Windows 2000 loaded and running full time. I loaded both the TivoToGo softwares on the Mac and Windows side. On the Mac side I use it for sharing my iTunes. On the Windows side I use the video transfer feature. If it is video I dont just want to archive but actually watch on my Mac then I just reencode it on the Windows side.

Believe or not it actually runs very quickly. I also have a 2.4 GHz P4 windows box, and to encode 30 min of video takes me about 10 min on the native Windows box. The same video only takes about 14 minutes on the copy of Windows I have running in Parallels.

One more tip, keep your Tivo video library in a shared folder on your mac, this prevents the VM file from getting huge.

It really stinks that we have to go through all this, and it is not even an option for those on PPC (less you have a super high end G5), but at least there is an option.

I've tried Parallells and it works great. However all my machines are PPC and half are relativley new. So, I won't be going Intel for a while. I'm waiting for Adobe to release their stuff in Universal Binary as well.

I think what the smart thing for TiVo to do is release TTG for Mac as a Universal Binary now that the entire line of Macs have been transitioned to Intel. At CES in January they showed working Alpha version that was probably for the Power PC using VLC for playback. It's been 8 months. So, I can only conclude that the Universal Binary version has backed up the release. Which is fine, they just need to communicate that to their users. Apple communicates well, but does comment on new software. TiVo does neither, and is not Apple.

Dennis Wilkinson

08-13-2006, 10:08 PM

I've tried Parallells and it works great. However all my machines are PPC and half are relativley new. So, I won't be going Intel for a while. I'm waiting for Adobe to release their stuff in Universal Binary as well.

I've been seriously eyeing the Mac Pro, and was concerned about Adobe CS2 performance myself (most of what I do at home that isn't just "working from home" is web development, but I'm finding myself spending a lot more time in InDesign these days for some of the volunteer stuff I do.) Of course, I think running emulated for me might not make much difference, as I'm still using a G4 at home, and most of the early benchmarks that have tested the CS apps are showing performance that'll best my machine.

Unfortunately, the geek budget is a bit thin at the moment, so it's kind a a moot point. But they are nice looking boxes. We'll probably have a few come in to the office sometime soon, so at least I'll get to play there. ;)

derekcbart

08-13-2006, 11:01 PM

Is this something that can't be posted here? Is so, how about a link to somewhere that describes the process. I have saved many files to the mac to free up TiVo hard disk space and would love to burn a DVD that I can play.

I don't know if it cannot be posted here or not. If not, I imagine that the moderators will delete this post and I'm sorry. I'm pretty sure that I read how to do this on another thread here.

In Virtual PC you need to download an application called "Direct Show Dump Utility". You can find it through Google pretty easily. This application converts the ".tivo" file to a ".mpg" and this ".mpg" file can be burned to DVD using Toast 7.0.2 (Toast 7.1 will NOT work).

cwoody222

08-13-2006, 11:30 PM

Yea, I just need an app called TiVo F'in ToGo for F'in Mac... no other software needed.

Pony just needs to pony up...

or shut up...

DannyBoy25

08-14-2006, 03:22 AM

Pony just needs to pony up...

or shut up...

As much as I think TiVo's obvious disregard for their Mac users is awful, and as eagerly as I'm awaiting a feature that my other TiVo pals have had for what seems like forever now, TivoPony is just one dude who works for a company. I'm sure the guy is saying what he can say. Do you want him to tell us more, break a confidentiality agreement, and get fired? It is lame that we don't know more? Hell yeah! Are we all pissed off? Totally. TiVo's disgusting handling of us Mac users, plus various attacks on this board from people who feed us with such b.s. lines like, "Just get a PC" are so entirely frustrating. But come on, man. Pony's been helpful when he can. I'm sure he's not sitting in his office twirling his mustache over this.

All that said, it's still lame as hell that we've had to wait this long.

cwoody222

08-14-2006, 06:54 AM

When I say "Pony" I mean "TiVo's public mouthpiece".

'Cause that's what he is... at least here.

Obviously I don't blame him personally. I blame TiVo. Always have. Always will. (that is, until hell freezes over and we actually get the software we deserve and have been paying for like PC users have)

juanian

08-15-2006, 10:12 AM

cwoody222

08-15-2006, 10:14 AM

Even if it IS hard, is it really "20 months (the amount of time PC users have had the functionality) hard"?

TivoBrian

08-16-2006, 01:28 AM

Even if it IS hard, is it really "20 months (the amount of time PC users have had the functionality) hard"?

TiVo Desktop 1.9.3 (008), the latest incarnation of the Mac TiVo software, is a problematic piece of programming at best. I have to STOP and then reSTART the TiVo server software at least every 3 days. After a couple of days it gradually bloats and starts hogging upwards of 25% of my CPU cycles. (I leave my Mac turned on all the time....usually only rebooting for System or other updates.) I use the TiVo Desktop to share my iTunes and iPhoto library with my home theatre via a wired network. The iTunes part works great for me. The iPhoto part is not so hot...during slide shows at least 30% of all the pictures display a broken icon. Going "back" to the broken picture displays the photo correctly (meaning there's nothing wrong with the photo), but then 6-7 pictures later the TiVo displays a broken picture icon again.

I've uninstalled and reinstalled and still notice my system responsiveness bogs down after a couple days of TiVo Desktop's server being activated. The Activity Monitor software utility shows me how much TiVo Desktop is taking from my CPU, and inevitably after a couple of days it's up past 25%. Stopping and restarting it takes it back down to 5-6%.

So in our zeal to see parity with the Windows TiVo Desktop, maybe we should just clamor for a bug-fix update to make this software behave the way it should.

I'd be interested to see what others notice on Macs that remain on 24/7. Do you also find that TiVo Desktop gradually becomes a resource hog??

jhwpbm

08-16-2006, 12:50 PM

TiVo Desktop 1.9.3 (008), the latest incarnation of the Mac TiVo software, is a problematic piece of programming at best. I have to STOP and then reSTART the TiVo server software at least every 3 days. After a couple of days it gradually bloats and starts hogging upwards of 25% of my CPU cycles. (I leave my Mac turned on all the time....usually only rebooting for System or other updates.) I use the TiVo Desktop to share my iTunes and iPhoto library with my home theatre via a wired network. The iTunes part works great for me. The iPhoto part is not so hot...during slide shows at least 30% of all the pictures display a broken icon. Going "back" to the broken picture displays the photo correctly (meaning there's nothing wrong with the photo), but then 6-7 pictures later the TiVo displays a broken picture icon again.

I've uninstalled and reinstalled and still notice my system responsiveness bogs down after a couple days of TiVo Desktop's server being activated. The Activity Monitor software utility shows me how much TiVo Desktop is taking from my CPU, and inevitably after a couple of days it's up past 25%. Stopping and restarting it takes it back down to 5-6%.

So in our zeal to see parity with the Windows TiVo Desktop, maybe we should just clamor for a bug-fix update to make this software behave the way it should.

I'd be interested to see what others notice on Macs that remain on 24/7. Do you also find that TiVo Desktop gradually becomes a resource hog??

I don't see this problem. I run the TiVo server 24x7 and am seeing (right now) 0% CPU utilization on my MacPro 15" 2GHz, 2GB RAM.

Dennis Wilkinson

08-16-2006, 01:27 PM

I'd be interested to see what others notice on Macs that remain on 24/7. Do you also find that TiVo Desktop gradually becomes a resource hog??

This has come up before. I don't usually see TiVo Desktop hog quite that much, although it does start to consume more resources as time goes by. For the few people who have tried it, simply accessing the server from a TiVo seems to 'reset' it back to whatever it was consuming at initial start.

I solved the problem on my machine by having the Mac itself query the server periodically (twice a day). I set up a cron job to run hourly that then used curl, a command-line executable, to request something from the server (TiVo Desktop, at least for Music & Photos, is nothing more than a specialized web server.)

I don't have time to write up instructions at the moment, but you might try seeing if connecting to TiVo Desktop from your TiVo and, say, browsing your music causes the resource usage to drop.

animalism2

08-16-2006, 04:20 PM

I know most of the regular posters probably already know this. But for other newbie Tivo/Mac users who find this thread my searching for "Mac" and "Tivotogo" here are some tips. I posted the same thing on a different thread earlier:

Before they release the Mac version, there still are some useful related activities you can do that involve your Mac, short of watching the transferred video on your computer or an iPod etc. The following two functions are explained in other threads if you search the forum:

1) you can transfer shows to your Mac simply for archiving purposes, in case your Tivo box has a full drive. I do this all the time and then transfer them back when I want to watch them (see item 2 below for how to do this). To move them from your Tivo, you need to use the web interface for your Tivo. Find the IP address of your Tivo, which is listed in the settings area of your Tivo menu, and then point Safari to h-t-t-p-s://<IP address>/nowplaying". Use "tivo" as the username and your media access key as the password. (sorry... the forum is restricting adding URLs, so remove the hyphens in that address).

2) You can use the reverse function which people call "GoToTivo" with the latest TivoDesktop 1.9.3 for Mac release. This means you can keep MPEG-2 formatted files on your hard drive, for instance ripped from a DVD (if 4:3 aspect ratio) or transferred from your Tivo as above, and then move them to your Tivo to watch. The catch is that it's a hidden function in Tivo Desktop. In the System Prefs, hold down the Apple key while selecting Tivo desktop. A hidden tab will appear for "Movies". You may have to restart after selecting the folder which you want the Tivo to see. After that, your computer will appear in the "Now Playing" screen after the "deleted items" folder.

derekcbart

08-16-2006, 07:35 PM

I recently noticed a folder created in my user directory called "TiVoShows". I think that the 1.9.3 release created this. I certainly didn't create it. Is this folder meant to be used for the process you describe in #2? If not, does anyone know what this folder is for since Mac currently does not have TiVo-To-Go capabilities (without going through all of the workarounds previously mentioned)?

derekcbart

08-16-2006, 07:40 PM

I just answered my own question. I did the process for your step #2 and the videos tab came up and the default location was for the TiVoShows folder I mentioned.

rkester

08-16-2006, 07:50 PM

The tab for Movies can also be enabled with VisualHub 1.1's TivoGoBack Enabler. Either way you slice it, its a good start towards the Windows equiv function.

And FYI, my Humax requires you to goto this address for the Now Playing list:
https://###.###.###.###/nowplaying/

Nice for backing files up off the tivo for sure from the Mac.

And not to sound like a broken record but for video conversion, please check out VisualHub! It does Tivo compatible mpg files and many other kinds. :) (It also now includes an enabler for the Video menu mentioned above.)

animalism2

08-16-2006, 09:20 PM

Thanks for the correction about the ##.##.##.##/nowplaying. You're right - I edited my post to reflect that correction.

I don't actually need the conversion capabilities for most things. I just recently ripped a DVD to a VOB file then used MPEGStreamClip to convert it to "MPEG2 with MP2 audio" (no loss of quality or re-encoding involved) and it works straight away on the Tivo. That same conversion is necessary for Quicktime with the MPEG-2 decoder installed as well as Front Row to play a VOB file as well so it's part of my ripping routine.

My only problems occur when I try to watch 16:9 aspect ratio movies on the Tivo. Does VisualHub add the letterboxing to those files and make them 4:3?

Bob Williams

08-16-2006, 09:31 PM

My only problems occur when I try to watch 16:9 aspect ratio movies on the Tivo. Does VisualHub add the letterboxing to those files and make them 4:3?

I've only tried converting a single video as an experiment and it wasn't a widescreen one, so forgive me if this is a stupid question. But with the widescreen option added into the TiVo interface a while back, I assumed it was to enable it to handle widescreen video appropriately based on the aspect ratio of the connected TV. If not, then just what *is* it for?

rkester

08-17-2006, 01:23 AM

The 16:9 preference on all tivos except the ones that have a dvd player/recorder in them does nothing. In the dvd units, it is for dvd playback.

animalism - let me try sending something widescreen to the unit now and i can tell you if it plays ok. im pretty sure it does. Yes. confirmed. im running the humax unit into a 4:3 tv and it appropriately letterboxed the content.

Rosincrans

08-17-2006, 01:39 AM

Thanks for the correction about the ##.##.##.##/nowplaying.
My only problems occur when I try to watch 16:9 aspect ratio movies on the Tivo. Does VisualHub add the letterboxing to those files and make them 4:3?
I usually use Tivoizer, a cool little app that converts most files to Tivo format and will add black bars on the bottom and top so that a 16:9 will show up as a letterboxed 4:3. It was created by Half Italian who posted it on here under a different thread.

animalism2

08-18-2006, 08:54 AM

I tried the VisualHub demo and loved it! I will likely buy the $23 license and be able to get rid of some of the other Video utilities that aren't nearly as comprehensive as VH. Tivoizer, on the other hand, wouldn't work. I hit "Tivoize" and nothing happened.

Rosincrans

08-18-2006, 07:27 PM

tonyf3

08-24-2006, 01:26 AM

June, July, August, September?
I'm really fed up with these guys.
No info, no updates, no discount for a lesser feature set than windows users, nothing.
If it ever comes out it probably suck anyway.
Keep your "Mid Whatever BS" If I really want a show on my Powerbook I'll go Elgato's Eye TV,or itunes!

1 Year 8 months and counting since the windows release. Pitiful.

Puppy76

08-24-2006, 09:47 AM

8 more days. They have 8 more days.

Between no Macintosh support, and no dual tuner unit for over the air, I'm leaning heavily towards basically "switching" to a Netflix subscription. Probably cheaper actually.

Or...Tony, have you actually used an Eye TV? I had the crazy idea yesterday of buying a Mac Mini, two EyeTV Hybrids (their new HD product), and a giant external drive to store content on-instant HD recorder!

But...I wonder if EyeTV's software is remotely as good as Tivo's?

Also wonder if their supposed "game mode" actually works-claims to have zero latency so you can hook a game console through it (which would be awesome on a laptop...) Don't know if it really works though-Windows products don't, they introduce latency. I thought it was just a USB issue, but maybe it's a Windows thing...

cwoody222

08-24-2006, 09:52 AM

8 more days. They have 8 more days.

How much does anyone wanna bet I'm gonna have to change my signature... again...

:(

Puppy76

08-24-2006, 11:07 AM

They don't get to claim something else now. :down:

donsullivan

08-24-2006, 09:10 PM

...

Or...Tony, have you actually used an Eye TV? I had the crazy idea yesterday of buying a Mac Mini, two EyeTV Hybrids (their new HD product), and a giant external drive to store content on-instant HD recorder!

But...I wonder if EyeTV's software is remotely as good as Tivo's?

I've got one of the Elgato EyeTV 500's (ATSC Tuner) that was connected to my G5 and is now on my MacBook Pro. The basic capabilities and recording quality are great. I've got it plugged into the same OTA antenna as my HDTiVo's and it picks up far more stations off the antenna than the HDTiVo does. When functioning on the computer the controls work well and the programming guide and scheduling have been pretty reliable. Unfortunately, that interface doesn't lend itself to a media PC perspective.

I have an Intel based Mini that I purchased to use as a media PC and a couple weeks ago connected the EyeTV up to it. The latest release of their software integrates with FrontRow so you can control it from across the room with the Apple Remote. It worked pretty well but I didn't spend a whole lot of time with it. The feature set is nothing like a Tivo but it does give you the ability to schedule a recording and play back recorded content as well as change channels with the Mac remote in a Front Row like interface. All-in-all not bad but a subset of TiVo functionality.

Using the normal UI (non Front Row) it does a really good job of exporting a recorded show into iPod format or prepping it for direct transfer to a DVD or other common export formats. It even has some limited editing functionality so you can remove commercials before you export for your iPod or other purposes. Bottom line if I have something available OTA that I want to keep for the future or dump to the iPod to watch later, I use this and have been very happy with it for the 1-1/2 years I've had it. I'm just limited to only having that functionality on the local stations I get OTA.

rkester

08-24-2006, 09:21 PM

I've got a 1.42 1st gen mini here and have been looking at the new Eye TV unit (hybrid?). I was wondering if it would handle the HD video playback and recording but their specs say it requires a intel duo core to do HD.

:/

would love to cap HD locals to make DVDs from to watch (and watch in HD on the mac).

until I can get an HD Tivo.

just dont know if i wanna spend $500+ on a new mini just for that.

Puppy76

08-25-2006, 09:34 AM

So it sounds like the EyeTV software DOSEN'T have "Season Pass" type functionality?

Well, thanks for the info!

donsullivan

08-25-2006, 09:49 AM

So it sounds like the EyeTV software DOSEN'T have "Season Pass" type functionality?

Well, thanks for the info!

I have not seen anything like that in it's feature set.

cwoody222

08-25-2006, 03:40 PM

Instead of putting resources to Mac customers, they're putting it towards this...

http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/ptech/08/25/tivo.religion.ap/

Puppy76

08-25-2006, 03:47 PM

Six days left.

We've heard more rumblings about the S3 coming out. And yes, Duke Nukem Forever :D

megazone

08-25-2006, 06:29 PM

Instead of putting resources to Mac customers, they're putting it towards this...

http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/ptech/08/25/tivo.religion.ap/Oh, c'mon, now you're just being silly. Yeah, I'm sure this really sucked a lot of resources away from working on a Mac desktop.

cwoody222

08-25-2006, 07:01 PM

Well, no. Of course I know that resources weren't taken away from the (possibly non-existent) Mac development for this.

But it does go to show you where their priorities and goals lie...

And it is certainly far, far from satisfying Mac customers.

Unix_Beard

08-25-2006, 07:17 PM

98,377 views of this thread and sadly no TTG for Mac. Wasn't it around the time of the start of this thread when Apple announced the switch to Intel? I have a Macbook Pro in hand. :D

megazone

08-25-2006, 08:16 PM

But it does go to show you where their priorities and goals lie...You could say that about *anything* they do that isn't releasing the Mac Desktop. If they ship the S3 you can claim that their priorities and goals are on that and not the Mac Desktop. If they do another software update to 7.3.2 then you can claim that is the focus. It is a meaningless complaint, companies do more than one thing at a time and doing X doesn't necessarily imply anything about Y.

I really think TiVo should've announced they were dropping Mac support. Then there would've been an outcry, and it would've blown over. Then they could 'bring back' Mac support when 2.x was ready and people would be thankful and happy. ;-)

donsullivan

08-25-2006, 09:13 PM

You could say that about *anything* they do that isn't releasing the Mac Desktop. If they ship the S3 you can claim that their priorities and goals are on that and not the Mac Desktop. If they do another software update to 7.3.2 then you can claim that is the focus. It is a meaningless complaint, companies do more than one thing at a time and doing X doesn't necessarily imply anything about Y.

I really think TiVo should've announced they were dropping Mac support. Then there would've been an outcry, and it would've blown over. Then they could 'bring back' Mac support when 2.x was ready and people would be thankful and happy. ;-)

In my opinion, this long ago stopped being about anything more than how baldy TiVo as a company has handled all of this. This isn't about technology anymore, it's about a horribly botched customer relations issue that they just seem to be continuously making worse.

Whether consciously or otherwise, TiVo has decided that the impact to their business of not supporting this feature on the Mac is not significant enough to do anything about it. In 2 years (assuming the Windows version was in development well before it was released) they could have found a way to do it if they wanted to. If they believed it was hitting the bottom line we'd have seen the solution by now.

We are now 4 business days from their missing another vague suggestion that they might deliver. Once we hit September on Friday nobody can legitimately suggest that we are still in mid-2006 any longer. My fear is that we'll hear absolutely nothing because they don't have a delivery and won't ever commit anything every again so that they don't miss a date.

I too think it's time for them to just stand up and say "we're just not going to do this" and we can all move on looking for alternatives to achieve this objective for ourselves. Bottom line, get someone in the group who understands how to properly communicate with customers.

tonyf3

08-25-2006, 10:24 PM

You could say that about *anything* they do that isn't releasing the Mac Desktop. If they ship the S3 you can claim that their priorities and goals are on that and not the Mac Desktop. If they do another software update to 7.3.2 then you can claim that is the focus. It is a meaningless complaint, companies do more than one thing at a time and doing X doesn't necessarily imply anything about Y.

I really think TiVo should've announced they were dropping Mac support. Then there would've been an outcry, and it would've blown over. Then they could 'bring back' Mac support when 2.x was ready and people would be thankful and happy. ;-)

Megazone,
I believe you actually saw it in person and took pictures. Or did you just post them?

Anyway,
I think if they announced they were dropping Mac support there would be an outcry and it would NOT blow over. They would end up with a serious black eye. Why?..Market share of Mac is climbing quickly since the release of intel based Macs. The Laptop share alone has doubled in just 8 months. They just released the Intel Pro Tower. A screaming machine, runs Mac & Windows at the same time, $1,000 less than Dell. IT guys in my company are all of sudden walking around with brand new Mac Book Pro's. I thought I'd never see the day.

What all this amounts to is their communication skills are horrible and they don't think we matter. Guess what,.. they're only going to get away with this for so long until a Journalist or Tech website rips them a new one on this.

Are you listening?
Ryan Block of Engadget,
http://features.engadget.com/2006/08/25/fairuse4wm-strips-windows-media-drm/

Stephen Wildstrom from Business Week,
http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/jun2006/tc20060614_650605.htm?sub=techmaven

David Pogue of the NY Times,
http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/

The gloves are off TiVo, the warm fuzzy feeling is long gone.
Step up, and make good on what you promised 2 years ago.
TiVo to Go for Mac.

megazone

08-25-2006, 10:43 PM

Megazone,
I believe you actually saw it in person and took pictures. Or did you just post them?I saw it, poked around in it, and took those photos. I also talked to people from TiVo who told me they were using the alpha version themselves. So it exists, or existed.

I think if they announced they were dropping Mac support there would be an outcry and it would NOT blow over. They would end up with a serious black eye.Plenty of things don't support Mac. And, growing or not, Mac's market share is still small. If they just said "This won't come to Mac" 2 years ago it would've blown over by now. Then if 2.x came out later this year, even next year, it would be a 'relaunch' for Mac and people would be happy about it.

I do think the way this is right now is worse than if they had done that. It has been too long now, really, to be promising that it is coming. Some delay compared to Windows isn't unusual, but this is just crazy. If they really wanted too they could't hired someone to write a media player from scratch by now. There hasn't been any good explanation for the delay at this point.

tonyf3

08-26-2006, 02:16 PM

I saw it, poked around in it, and took those photos. I also talked to people from TiVo who told me they were using the alpha version themselves. So it exists, or existed.

It has been too long now, really, to be promising that it is coming. Some delay compared to Windows isn't unusual, but this is just crazy. If they really wanted too they could't hired someone to write a media player from scratch by now. There hasn't been any good explanation for the delay at this point.

True.
A little honest communication would go a long way for pacifying the masses.
Answering the following would help.

Issues for the delay in development?
Technical challenges ?
Staffing?
Projected release date.

juanian

08-28-2006, 10:45 AM

True.
A little honest communication would go a long way for pacifying the masses.
Answering the following would help.

Issues for the delay in development?
Technical challenges ?
Staffing?
Projected release date.What, another projected release date, so they can get more griping if it isn't met for some reason that might be outside of their control? Plus, airing their issues publicly might make things worse (if the issues are due to support from companies outside of their control). And would these things stop the griping? NO -- it would just give the gripers more ammo to bellyache more.

Yes, I too have been waiting for TivoToGo to finally come to the Mac. At least Mac users can now download and upload programs (I still use Galleon, and I haven't even bothered to install the more recent TiVo Desktop on my Mac yet). Yes, I would like to be able to view downloaded shows on my Mac through the 'standard' interface (like Quicktime Player instead of VLC), wouldn't you (not specifically you tonyf3, but the generic 'you')? And I'd like to be able to use 'standard' software like iDVD to handle the shows. But snapping your fingers doesn't just make this happen.

But maybe you haven't considered that there are things TiVo has no control over (am I getting repetitive?), and that they might not be allowed to discuss the subjects publicly. Maybe you need to redirect your anger to where it belongs. I just hope that the OS support won't require me to upgrade to OS X 10.5. (Oh, fun time is over -- now I have to go to work :rolleyes: .)

Puppy76

08-28-2006, 10:56 AM

Four days.

chiefted

08-28-2006, 10:58 AM

8 more days. They have 8 more days.

Or...Tony, have you actually used an Eye TV? I had the crazy idea yesterday of buying a Mac Mini, two EyeTV Hybrids (their new HD product), and a giant external drive to store content on-instant HD recorder!

Don't have the EyeTV Hybrid, have the EyeTV EZ. Hook up was a snap with my DirecTV reciever. There were a couple of other pieces to this puzzle to get EyeTV to function much like my Tivo.

First piece was some software called iEye Captain. That does provide the "Season Pass" functionality that someone else mentioned. Even that was a snap to set up.

The second piece was a software hardware combo to switch the channels on my satellite box since the Mac doesn't have a plug in port for a IR Blaster. I got the iTrans/iRed combo. iRed is the software that will take what you have programed into iEye Captain converts it so it shows up in iCal (really nice feature that a Tivo won't do). The iTrans portion is the USB "IR Blaster". The iTrans set up was plug the thing into an empty USB port. The iRed software set up was easy, had to do a bit of tweaking to it to get the right timing down for the channel change.

All together the hardware and software probably cost me as much as buying a new Tivo box. I already had Toast IT for burning programs right to the DVD.

If you go the EyeTV route you get downloading for free from the TitanTV website. I just go to the website, pick the program I want to record. It downloads a small file (probably a couple kb in size), puts it in the EyeTV "to do" list and also puts a copy into iEye Captain. I have to make one change manually so that the iTrans will "fire" the IR signal properly.

It function just like my Tivo, cept I don't have a thumbs up/down function (why would I need one since I am setting recordings up myself) and well it won't record other things I might like.

I have been seriously toying with the idea of picking up a couple of Mac Minis and doing the same thing with the living room and bedroom TVs and dumping Tivo all together if they don't release TivoToGo in 4 days.

Then I can say I "Tivo'd them"

chessplayer

08-28-2006, 10:49 PM

Don't worry, they are still "working hard" on Mac TiVoToGo! I know that hard work will pay off. Right, TiVo?

Meanwhile, the EyeTV hybrid looks great and is only $150; I only wish it had QAM support.

tonyf3

08-31-2006, 10:42 AM

Thought this was interesting from another thread.

I attended the WWDC last week and got into a conversation with a guy from TiVo while waiting for a session on Quicktime. I asked him about playing protected AAC songs from iTunes and he smiled and said "Can you wait a few weeks?". Excited, I asked if they had licensed the codecs from Apple, and he said they had an agreement with them. Apparently, music is just scratching the surface. He said the HME team at TiVo had a late beta of an iTunes client, which allows for searching, browsing, downloading, and playback of music, videos, tv shows, and, get this, movies! Apparently, they are mostly waiting on Apple to finish the negotiations with the studios and they are going to announce the whole thing when that is done. TiVo gets lots of new downloadable content and Apple gets a few million new iTunes customers. A match made in heaven.

Original link.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4284749&&#post4284749

I'll keep my fingers crossed.

cwoody222

08-31-2006, 10:51 AM

A guy with 2 posts writes about bumping into a TiVo employee who just happened to know all about a rather large Apple & TiVo deal?

Nah, I don't buy it. For a second.

The only word I believe is from TiVo itself. Last time we heard anything, Pony promised "mid-2006". That gives them, oh, about 14 more hours...

chiefted

08-31-2006, 11:47 AM

had a late beta of an iTunes client, which allows for searching, browsing, downloading, and playback of music, videos, tv shows, and, get this, movies! Apparently, they are mostly waiting on Apple to finish the negotiations with the studios and they are going to announce the whole thing when that is done.

A guy with 2 posts writes about bumping into a TiVo employee who just happened to know all about a rather large Apple & TiVo deal?

Nah, I don't buy it. For a second.

The only word I believe is from TiVo itself. Last time we heard anything, Pony promised "mid-2006". That gives them, oh, about 14 more hours...

Don't know about the Tivo & Apple deal. I can confirm that there will be a new version of iTunes coming out, they are or just got done with negotiations for movie stuff. There is a launch coming up mid Sept.

but ya only 15 hours (on the West Coast here up the highway from Tivo)

Puppy76

08-31-2006, 01:10 PM

12 hours, 48 minutes (going by Pacific time) and counting.

Quevar

08-31-2006, 01:58 PM

iTunes interaction would be awesome. Have TiVo show up as another shared video client on the network that can download and convert to iPod. Also allowing movies to be downloaded from Apple and uploaded to TiVo would be great. Playing encrypted aac files would be a nice added bonus.

If all this were available, presumably Quicktime would be the base player, so TiVo shows would be editable in iMovie and then burnable to iDVD.

Somehow, I think I am dreaming about all of this though and would be content with a way to play TiVo files on my Mac without the need of a Windows box or proof that it exists and is coming soon.

cwoody222

08-31-2006, 02:19 PM

Apple has little incentive to enable / allow that to happen. They'd rather people hook up their Mac mini to their TV. That's why they have Front Row.

rkester

08-31-2006, 02:21 PM

Wasnt there speculation at one point that the reason this has never been fullfilled is because Apple has their own tivo like device coming? I wonder if that is why, I dunno.

Puppy76

08-31-2006, 04:23 PM

I've heard that, and years ago I thought Apple was perfectly positioned to do it...except now with all these cable boxes, I'm not sure it's a market they'd enter...but then there are still rumblings about an iPhone, so who knows. Actually there are tons of niche markets that are so poorly done someone like Apple could come in, take them over, and make them mainstream.

After all, I honestly thought the iPod was too little, too late. Thought they were entering the space YEARS too late. :D

rkester

08-31-2006, 05:05 PM

The EyeTV Hybrid is a seperate product from the Miglia TVMini HD.

The Hybrid only does OTA HDTV and analog cable. No QAM that i can tell.

Thataboy

08-31-2006, 05:18 PM

I was an early TiVo adopter many years ago, but abandoned it for cable-DVRs because of lack of landline phone. But now I am returning to the fold with the 180-hour 1-year prepay Wireless Dongle deal :) Anyway, I get the unit next week, but in the meantime...

Has anyone tried using the brand spanking new Crossover Mac beta? I would love to know of the Tivo2Go Windows software will work with this program (I'd rather use Crossover than pay $300 bucks for Parallels/Windows).

I can't post the URL because I am too new, but it is at the Codeweavers webpage.

It is the first beta, and not many apps are officially supported -- I doubt Tivo2Go would work... but if anyone would like to give it a go, I'd be happy to know! Might be a good solution until Tivo releases Mac software in 2014.

:)

rkester

08-31-2006, 05:23 PM

Never heard of the Xover Mac product, interesting tho. I had discussed this kind of silent operation with friends before (simialr to how Classic worked) and had wondered why it wasnt in the OS in the first place.

http://www.codeweavers.com/products/cxmac/

jblake

08-31-2006, 06:11 PM

It doesn't work out of the box with crossover, just tried it.. Maybe with some work. If I get it to work, I'll post back here.

Puppy76

08-31-2006, 06:15 PM

ElGato has their own HD compatible part coming out.

Thataboy

08-31-2006, 06:21 PM

It doesn't work out of the box with crossover, just tried it.. Maybe with some work. If I get it to work, I'll post back here.

You da man! Or woman. Whatever the case may be :)

I didn't expect Crossover to work with media/DRM type stuff, but if you can jiggle it, you will be a hero among men.

chessplayer

08-31-2006, 10:39 PM

tonyf3

09-01-2006, 09:05 AM

Congratulations on passing 100,000 views for this thread, tonyf3! Of course we would have all been happier if the thread had died years ago with TiVo delivering as promised.

Does anyone know how many months TiVo has been "working hard" on this? Let's hope that hard work pays off soon, and we get good news soon, rather than when this thread reaches 200,000 views.

Thanks Chessplayer!
Yeah, I'd have been much happier if the thread had died at 2 views with the subsequent release of TiVo ToGo for Mac. Not almost 2years and counting.
It's a testament to the Mac community at large, and all programmers that have offered their time and expertise for work-arounds. We won't let this issue go.

I was just so incensed at the time that I had waited a year for the software, and TiVo decided to publicly ignore and dismiss the Mac Users and it's paying TiVo subscribers.

The Mac and TiVo are both great pieces of design and software. That they can't play well together and take advantge of all each platform has to offer frankly is a sin.

Hopefully well see something this month.

cwoody222

09-01-2006, 09:18 AM

Hopefully well see something this month.

The eternal optimist, huh?

I have ZERO faith we'll EVER see TiVoToGo for Mac. Or even that they'll EVER officially confirm it isn't coming.

TiVo lies. TiVo has no communication skills whatsoever. Their PR and media relations has always been horrible. They have no desire to quiet Mac users. They don't care.

We won't see a product. Ever.

They've been working on it for over 600 days. They haven't said a word about it in 10 months. They're liars. It's not coming.

Signature updated, rant over.

Puppy76

09-01-2006, 10:50 AM

Yep. Tivo lied. They've passed their own deadline without even acknowledgement or a hint as to if or when it’s coming. There's really no more point to this thread (aside from venting :D ) as Tivo has made it clear they don't care about their Mac customers. (I do find it especially ironic they added that update to their Windows product that specifically works with iPods...)

We should have a sticky thread on the top of this and the main board that Tivo is NOT Macintosh compatible, and they have no intention of becoming so.

Since they’re not, I’ve been leaning more and more heavily towards going with a Netflix subscription, and just using my current S2 until it breaks.

jpd

09-01-2006, 06:32 PM

Here's the compatibility page for Crossover with Tivo Desktop - it's officially "untested".
http://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/browse/cat/?app_id=1707

Note that this means compatibility with Crossover in general, including the Linux version which has been around much longer. So this is a good indication that it's not going to work on the Mac. If you look at the video category in general, the only thing known to work is Quicktime (and quicktime-based tools). We don't need that, we've already got it.

This tie-in to the iTunes movie rumors sounds like a good sign of movement, but it doesn't necessarily mean TivoToGo - it could just mean sending movies and music from the iTunes Store to your TiVo. On the other hand it could explain the delay. If TivoDesktop will have both new features, and releasing it would have revealed Apple's plans to sell movies prematurely, it would make sense to delay it. And the Apple movie rumors were previously targeting a July/August announcement, which fits in with the TiVo timeline.

homertime

09-02-2006, 12:28 PM

Don't know about the Tivo & Apple deal. I can confirm that there will be a new version of iTunes coming out, they are or just got done with negotiations for movie stuff. There is a launch coming up mid Sept.

but ya only 15 hours (on the West Coast here up the highway from Tivo)

The new itunes is probably due to new ipods coming out in mid to late september... the rumored touchscreen ipods

tonyf3

09-02-2006, 02:45 PM

This tie-in to the iTunes movie rumors sounds like a good sign of movement, but it doesn't necessarily mean TivoToGo - it could just mean sending movies and music from the iTunes Store to your TiVo. On the other hand it could explain the delay. If TivoDesktop will have both new features, and releasing it would have revealed Apple's plans to sell movies prematurely, it would make sense to delay it. And the Apple movie rumors were previously targeting a July/August announcement, which fits in with the TiVo timeline.

I'll buy that.
I'm a, "the glass is half full" kinda guy.

backspaces

09-03-2006, 12:05 AM

My wife just got a video iPod. We're a Mac family and have a Toshiba DVD TiVo system. We also run the TiVo on our house wireless network just fine, and using TiVo Desktop on my powerbook, export our Mac iTunes and iPhotos to the TiVo .. nice!

But from what I can tell, there is no easy way to convert TiVo shows to the iPod video. I think the best I can do is record the show to a re-writable DVD, and then use HandBreak or similar to create an iPod video.

What do Mac folks do to get TiVo shows onto their video iPods?

Thanks.

Owen http://backspaces.net/

rkester

09-03-2006, 12:12 AM

backspaces... 2 words for you... handbrake to rip to full size... visualhub to convert to ipod (and other formats.

thats what I use/do.

backspaces

09-03-2006, 11:01 AM

Thanks rkester .. and a result of a recent test: I used Instant HandBrake last evening to rip a 30 minute show from DVD. It worked fine. I'll do a couple of more tests over the next few days.

But it looks like just burning a DVD on the Toshiba, generally of 4 half hour shows, then using Instant HB (which really is "instant": simply load the DVD then Click .. the result ends up in your Movies folder) works fine with minimal hassle.

Owen

donsullivan

09-03-2006, 12:35 PM

Not sure how many of you may have seen this one. It was buried in a thread about iPod, PSP support.

We have commented on this more recently, I recall an interview with Jim Denney that circulated here not long ago. He said that we're continuing to work on it, and we are.

I don't have a revised date to give you. What I said last November was truthful, however supporting the Macintosh is significantly more difficult than it should be.

It is well understood within TiVo that we do not yet offer TTG support for Macintosh, it has not been set aside or forgotten. I do not though have a revised date to share. I'll pass along new information as soon as I am able to.

I understand if some folks continue to express skepticism. I'm sorry if you feel that way, but I don't believe anything that we tell you will change your views, short of putting the software in your hands. And that's what we're working towards.

Cheers,
Pony

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4330573&&#post4330573

I suspect this will be the absolute last word we're going to hear from TiVo until (or if) TTG for Mac is ever released. They missed their published milestone and I anticipate at this point they'll just clam up, take the heat and say absolutely nothing from now forward. If we hear anything else from them it will be an announcement but I'm certainly not holding my breath.

sayonaraML

09-03-2006, 12:46 PM

Thanks for posting that nugget from TivoPony and it certainly says it all...
My problem with Pony and with TivoBill before that was the semi-official quality of their posts. I mean where did that mid-2006 date come from? Why offer anthing at all if you aren't able to stand behind what you are putting up? Does putting up an artificial date make anyone happy?

I'm like you (donsullivan) at this point and am not holding my breath for anything from Tivo. Of course I do have a Macbook with XP installed on it and am able to get to TTG that way but would still preer that Mac route...

Puppy76

09-03-2006, 07:00 PM

That's why a couple of us were doing the countdown. They missed it, though because of that and the expense of running a TV, I'm thinking more and more of just doing Netflix.

geekmedic

09-03-2006, 10:37 PM

macmonkey

09-03-2006, 10:50 PM

I have wanted to buy a Tivo for awhile now, but being first an Apple fan, and now an Apple employee, I refuse to support a company that doesn't support mine.

This talk of it being difficult to support the Mac is bologna. If Tivo can't get their unit talking to a Mac perfectly then it's because they're either incompetent or not making the attempt.

So, Tivo, it's not just people that have already subscribed that you're angering with your terrible Mac support, it's dollars that you COULD have gotten but won't.

tonyf3

09-04-2006, 08:00 PM

tonyf3

09-05-2006, 08:56 PM

Special Apple Media Event Sept. 12th.
http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/portable-media/special-apple-media-event-planned-for-september-12-new-ipods-198149.php

Bierboy

09-05-2006, 09:46 PM

I still find it hard to believe that there has been no official announcement from TiVo as to why there is a delay in releasing TiVo-to-Go for Mac.

I am holding off buying a Series 3 unit until TTG is offered for Mac OS X.Maybe not "official", but darn close...here. (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4330573&&#post4330573)

cwoody222

09-05-2006, 10:59 PM

cwoody222

09-05-2006, 11:02 PM

And wait a minute... first time I've really looked at his comments so close. I never noticed he said "more difficult than it should be" and not "more difficult than we thought".

Is he actually blaming Apple?!

As I said before, they CAN support us (it can be done - easily - with hacked units)... just that they don't want to do it unless they can do it their DRM-ed way which is a corner they backed themselves into. I seriously doubt Apple is throwing any major suprises that affects playback of an MPEG.

That's just lame. Take your own responsibility, TiVo.

backspaces

09-05-2006, 11:16 PM

Hardly. If they were merely going to miss their self-imposed "deadline" by 12 days (depending on how you define "mid 2006") ... and only to wait for an Apple media show to announce the news at, do you really think Pony would have said:

"supporting the Macintosh is significantly more difficult than it should be"

I don't.

If they were just waiting until the 12th it would have been "hold on, almost there, just a few wrinkles".

His statements make me think "oh *****, we really have no hope of getting this done anytime soon, we really screwed up by saying mid-2006... just be vague, promise nothing, 'cause we're way off track".

I probably should have posted this:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4334867&highlight=backspaces#post4334867
.. in this forum. Basically there's a near-trivial solution requiring the TiVo to support a simple HTTP server.

But this points out a wider issue than simply Mac vs Windows vs Linux vs Treo vs etc. TiVo and many other tech product folks are surprisingly ignorant of the computing field as a whole. They know their tiny niche. Much like a "power user" who really can crank Excel but doesn't know UDP from TCP.

So rather than assume TiVo is evil, I presume they are "civilians", ignorant of the potential of simple, elegant, platform independent solutions.

Owen http://backspaces.net/

megazone

09-06-2006, 12:37 AM

I probably should have posted this:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4334867&highlight=backspaces#post4334867
.. in this forum. Basically there's a near-trivial solution requiring the TiVo to support a simple HTTP server.And this is why that will never happen: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4341216&&#post4341216

But this points out a wider issue than simply Mac vs Windows vs Linux vs Treo vs etc. TiVo and many other tech product folks are surprisingly ignorant of the computing field as a whole. They know their tiny niche. Much like a "power user" who really can crank Excel but doesn't know UDP from TCP.This is a mighty condescending viewpoint. I've talked to MANY people at TiVo, including developers, over the years. They are not ignorant of the other systems out there at all. They're simply operating under the current realities of the business and legal environment. An open solution is NOT viable, period. TiVo cannot withstand the lawsuits, which they'd almost certainly loose under the current laws. TiVo folks have, themselves, said they wish it were as simple as just making the files openly available from the TiVo. That's a lot less work than what they've had to do to make TTG work. If they didn't have to do any DRM, performance would be better. It'd work on any platform, etc. But they had to do DRM to get TTG approved in the first place. And they need to keep doing it to avoid lawsuits which would likely cripple them as it did ReplayTV.

They're neither evil nor ignorant. They're just operating within a system of constraints.

cwoody222

09-06-2006, 11:50 AM

They're neither evil nor ignorant. They're just operating within a system of constraints.

Who's constraining TiVo to not offer an official way to download .tivo files to Macs? (they could offer FAQs / instructions stating that a windows PC is required to view them or convert them to iPod formats)

Who's constraining them to offer an official way to utilize GoBack on Macs?

Who's constraining them to offering follow up details here except for when I ask Pony to follow up on comments he made months ago?

Who's constraining them to making official updates in their TiVo newsletter or in their FAQs online?

Who constrained them to take so long to fix issues with Tiger? Or at least to update their FAQ which incorrectly stated it wasn't incompatible when it was for months.

Who constrained them to take so long to come out with a Universal version of TiVo Desktop?

EDIT: Who also constrained TiVo to not utilize their hardware dongle solution that would have worked for all platforms and who constrained them to use a proprietary system that was only known to work on Windows platforms using WMP?

Yea, it's Apple that's so difficult to support... :rolleyes:

ZeoTiVo

09-06-2006, 12:11 PM

Who's constraining them to offering follow up details here except for when I ask Pony to follow up on comments he made months ago?

EDIT: Who also constrained TiVo to not utilize their hardware dongle solution that would have worked for all platforms and who constrained them to use a proprietary system that was only known to work on Windows platforms using WMP?

Yea, it's Apple that's so difficult to support... :rolleyes:

Massive backlash in this forum and other places made them back off using the dongle. You know that as well as anyone.

TiVoPony said all he could publicly at your specific request yet you just keep dragging him down.

You refuse to accept or even acknowledge DRM restraints placed on TiVo by the legal/business environment they operate in.

You refuse to even discuss that Apple could possibly be operating in new territory here themselves and also may not have a quick solution to what TiVo would need. Apple may not be playing fair (their business right) or Apple may be in longer term talks with TiVo as Steve Jobs is pretty savvy about long term thinking.

so keep on refusing, it reflects a lot more poorly on those refusing to than does TiVo incs' inability to.

cwoody222

09-06-2006, 12:22 PM

Sure there was backlash. But if they would have said "Hey guys, this is the only reasonable solution we have to be able to support everyone fairly" that may have changed things. They caved to PC users complaints about buying $25 hardware and Mac users suffer for 2 years + because of it. (and also TiVo suffers by all the spending they've done on Mac development and bad PR)

My point about them not commenting is to again reinforce this is not just about them not delivering software. It's about a continued and systematic lack of communication from TiVo. Would Pony (or anyone) given us an update if I hadn't asked or this thread didn't exist?

If they weren't going to meet a deadline by Sept 1st surely they knew in Aug... and probably July. And maybe even June. Unless they're *really close* which Pony's statements certainly don't seem to indicate. So why wait until the very last second... and wait until they're specifically asked... to give us details.

TiVo should have stepped up in mid-July and said "Look guys, we were wrong, sorry..."

I refuse to discuss anything about Apple purposely hindering TiVo's progress and/or, OTOH, Apple and TiVo working together because there's absolutely nothing to make us think that except as an easy "excuse" for TiVo (the former) or a fanboy dream (the latter).

EDIT: and if it is the former, that Apple is somehow hindering TiVo's progress than you'd think TiVo would want to say so. But they haven't.

Dennis Wilkinson

09-06-2006, 02:00 PM

EDIT: Who also constrained TiVo to not utilize their hardware dongle solution that would have worked for all platforms and who constrained them to use a proprietary system that was only known to work on Windows platforms using WMP?

What the h&$l makes you think the dongle solution was workable? Technically, it has to solve every single issue that the system they shipped does, and it has to talk to a hardware device besides! Practically, it was just as "shipped" as the version of TTG for Mac that megazone reported on at CES: a trade show demo.

You've proposed a lot of solutions for TTG (DRM-free downloads, watermarking, etc), none of which are feasible for either technical or business reasons. It looks like TiVo was without a Mac person for a while, and they had to do some catching up.

The fact is, working with QuickTime, particularly the MPEG implementation, is hard. I can't say that I'm surprised they're finding it difficult. This doesn't mean that Apple is hindering TiVo, it just means that those particular APIs are tough to work with. There's an enormous difference.

Hiring qualified people isn't all that easy, either, even for Microsoft, even in the heart of Apple-land. Just look at this blog entry from someone in the Mac BU: (http://www.schwieb.com/blog/2006/08/08/saying-goodbye-to-visual-basic/)

We’ve been working very hard to hire a bunch of developers, but it has turned out to be quite difficult to fill our existing open headcount positions. As an example, I’ve had an open position on my own team for 9 of the last 12 months (it took 8 months to fill the slot when one developer moved from my team to another one in MacBU, and only last week did we hire someone to fill the slot vacated recently when another developer moved to a different team at Microsoft.)

Yes, TiVo's communication to its customers on the subject has been very poor, and you're right to complain about that. Yes, there are things that they could be "officially" supporting (like TivoToComeBack, or whatever we're supposed to call it) where only unofficial support exists. But to say they're just lying, in an attempt to avoid some imagined exodus of Mac users? I doubt it.

ZeoTiVo

09-06-2006, 03:50 PM

The fact is, working with QuickTime, particularly the MPEG implementation, is hard. I can't say that I'm surprised they're finding it difficult. This doesn't mean that Apple is hindering TiVo, it just means that those particular APIs are tough to work with. There's an enormous difference.
yes, for the record I do not see some evil Apple plot to deliberately hinder, but I can also see TiVo trying to negotiate some way to get TTG on Mac done given the mepg situation and Apple not exactly leaping to help. If TiVo had found a way to do DRM on Apple then they would most likely be close enough to say something better then still backed up. So it would make sense they approached Apple about coming up with something. In both cases TiVo is still the one responsible for delivering TTG on the Mac but if they can not get around the DRM roadblock what can they do ?

also TiVoPony's post does not nake i t sound like there is some imminent TiVo/Apple alliance on anything unless he is playing very mum on the subject. I agree that does not bode well for an iTunes/TiVo setup but you live in your denial and I will live in mine :)

Rosincrans

09-07-2006, 09:26 PM

Here's what I don't understand about the DRM situation: Isn't there already an easy solution for PCs to convert video to many unprotected formats? What exactly is the point? Don't they just need something that makes it appear that they are trying? Is the fear the possible sharing of files with a .tivo extension instead of an anonymous converted file?

jblake

09-07-2006, 09:46 PM

Apple came up with a DRM solution that works on both Windows and Mac, why can't Tivo? There are several individuals that build very great elegant video software for the Mac (Handbrake, VisualHub), so it can't be so impossible for what is primarily a software company to hire a few Mac developers (even on a contract basis) and build a solution. I don't know the technical details behind .tivo file encryption, but is it not just the mpeg file wrapped in tivo's custom wrapper? Could they not just write a decryption module from scratch instead of trying to do some kind of plug-in like they did for WMV?

A more interesting question would be could Tivo re-write their DRM for BOTH windows and mac so that it's more cross-platform compatable? Or, possibly have a different version of the Tivo box's software that has a better wrapper for the file that is Mac compatable and allow customers to choose windows or mac support for their box (although that's a less than ideal solution)

cwoody222

09-07-2006, 09:53 PM

Here's what I don't understand about the DRM situation: Isn't there already an easy solution for PCs to convert video to many unprotected formats?

Yea, and it's supplied BY TiVo... to convert to iPod and PSP formats.

Yup - TiVo's worried about Mac users having access to unencrypted files and yet they give PC users a way to remove the encryption.

Maddening, isn't it?

bedelman

09-07-2006, 10:03 PM

Yup - TiVo's worried about Mac users having access to unencrypted files and yet they give PC users a way to remove the encryption.
It "watermarks" the video, so any converted file could potentially be traced back to the offender.

"Watermarking" is too processor intensive to do it on a processor constrained box like a TiVo -- which is why the conversion takes place on a computer.

megazone

09-07-2006, 10:45 PM

It "watermarks" the video, so any converted file could potentially be traced back to the offender.Note that their official solution also doesn't just strip DRM and leave the full resolution file. It only produces lower-resolution files, nothing better than 320x240 IIRC. (I'm not home right now to check.) So you can get lower resolution, watermarked files without DRM, basically in variations of MPEG-4. TiVo does not provide access to the full resolution MPEG-2 contents, with or without a watermark.

cwoody222

09-07-2006, 10:58 PM

It's still better than nothing.

errandwolfe

09-08-2006, 07:05 AM

I don't know the technical details behind .tivo file encryption, but is it not just the mpeg file wrapped in tivo's custom wrapper?

Yes it is just an MPEG2 file in a custom wrapper which is VERY easily removed on a PC using a very common freeware program which I will not mention here. But the point is for 30 minutes of video downloaded from a tivo it takes under a minute to remove the wrapper.

Dennis Wilkinson

09-08-2006, 10:48 AM

Yes it is just an MPEG2 file in a custom wrapper which is VERY easily removed on a PC using a very common freeware program which I will not mention here. But the point is for 30 minutes of video downloaded from a tivo it takes under a minute to remove the wrapper.

The process you refer to isn't just "removing a wrapper", it's decrypting encrypted portions of the MPEG2 file, and using TiVo-provided software to do it.

No TiVo software => no decryption. No decryption => no playback.

Puppy76

09-08-2006, 11:44 AM

Which is why Tivo needs to hurry up and write a decryption program for the Mac...they're what, at least a year and a half late already?

cwoody222

09-08-2006, 12:10 PM

Which is why Tivo needs to hurry up...

Don't hold your breath.

jblake

09-08-2006, 01:58 PM

The process you refer to isn't just "removing a wrapper", it's decrypting encrypted portions of the MPEG2 file, and using TiVo-provided software to do it.

No TiVo software => no decryption. No decryption => no playback.

But if it's TiVo's encryption, then why is it so hard to write a decryption module for Mac OS? It's not like they contracted with Microsoft and wrapped everything in a WMV file that THEN would be very difficult to deal with on Mac OS. Another point is that they can encrypt it very easily in linux on a fairly slow platform, porting an decryption module over to OS X which is based on BSD and is very linux-like should be simple..heck, it should be just as easy or easier than writing a Windows decryption scheme. The whole problem seems to be that Tivo just doesn't care about their customers who also have a Mac, forcing them to use convoluted setups with a PC (or now, parallels) and unapproved software to strip the DRM out themselves and have a fully functional non DRMed full rez file.

Dennis Wilkinson

09-08-2006, 02:42 PM

But if it's TiVo's encryption, then why is it so hard to write a decryption module for Mac OS? It's not like they contracted with Microsoft and wrapped everything in a WMV file that THEN would be very difficult to deal with on Mac OS. Another point is that they can encrypt it very easily in linux on a fairly slow platform, porting an decryption module over to OS X which is based on BSD and is very linux-like should be simple..heck, it should be just as easy or easier than writing a Windows decryption scheme. The whole problem seems to be that Tivo just doesn't care about their customers who also have a Mac, forcing them to use convoluted setups with a PC (or now, parallels) and unapproved software to strip the DRM out themselves and have a fully functional non DRMed full rez file.

It's not writing a decryption "module" that's hard. In fact, writing a drag-and-drop "strip the encryption and spit out an MPEG2 file" application would be pretty simple -- but that has the potential to make the content providers and copyright holders very annoyed, and TiVo has shown repeatedly that they intend to keep the copyright holders reasonably happy. Note that this hypothetical drag-and-drop app isn't a watermarking application, since that would require re-compression to integrate the watermark (not to mention compressor licensing fees.)

The hard part is writing something that is a good Mac "platform citizen" -- i.e. iDVD/DVD Studio Pro/Toast can burn the files to disc, any well-behaved QuickTime application can open them, iMovie could potentially edit them. This is where Apple's MPEG implementation gets in the way. The iApps simply don't do well with QuickTime's MPEG, since the way it represents "tracks" is unique (muxed MPEG appears as a single track with both audio and video characteristics, not as separate audio and video tracks like every other format does.) Add that to Apple's MPEG2 implementation for QuickTime being, frankly, not very good (several legitimate flavors handled poorly or not at all, generally buggy, etc.) and poorly documented, and it all translates into being something that would be very hard to just write a decrypting filter for (which is all they really do on the Windows side.) I know what I'm talking about here -- I've spent a lot of time writing QuickTime code, and a fair amount of time working with the MPEG 1 and 2 implementations (and pulling out hair over it.)

So, the "easy" road (the one most like the Windows implementation) is out. The next thing would be to build their own MPEG2 implemenation that plays well with QuickTime, and looks like other non-Apple-MPEG2 formats to the iApps. This is doable, but is a lot more work (Apple's MPEG2 implementation, poor as it is, took several years to deliver, although you could trim some time off of that by licensing some or all of the MPEG logic, which, IIRC, Apple didn't do, and wrapping that as QuickTime components.)

The last option would be to write a ground-up proprietary player for Mac OS, no QuickTime involved. Simpler than rolling their own QuickTime MPEG components, but doesn't get them access to the iApps, and gets you playback in that player only. It would mean writing their own DVD burning app (or working with a 3rd party to make that possible) if they wanted to support that, and probably wouldn't really sit all that well with Mac customers (who really want things that feel like a part of the platform.)

Delivering TTG on the Mac that is functionally identical to TTG on Windows should require the same level and type of work, but because this is MPEG2, and Apple does poorly with MPEG2, it's more work on the Mac. As I said, I have experience with this, and have no problem buying TiVoPony's comment about it being harder than it should be.

Whether Apple as a company is helping, hurting, or otherwise I have no idea. I don't see a reason why Apple's developer technical support folks wouldn't help the TiVo developers out as much as any other developer, maybe even more, if it's something that requires Apple to make big changes to QuickTime or QuickTime's MPEG2 component they probably aren't bending over backwards, either.

tonyf3

09-09-2006, 09:06 AM

It's not writing a decryption "module" that's hard. In fact, writing a drag-and-drop "strip the encryption and spit out an MPEG2 file" application would be pretty simple -- but that has the potential to make the content providers and copyright holders very annoyed, and TiVo has shown repeatedly that they intend to keep the copyright holders reasonably happy. Note that this hypothetical drag-and-drop app isn't a watermarking application, since that would require re-compression to integrate the watermark (not to mention compressor licensing fees.)

The hard part is writing something that is a good Mac "platform citizen" -- i.e. iDVD/DVD Studio Pro/Toast can burn the files to disc, any well-behaved QuickTime application can open them, iMovie could potentially edit them. This is where Apple's MPEG implementation gets in the way. The iApps simply don't do well with QuickTime's MPEG, since the way it represents "tracks" is unique (muxed MPEG appears as a single track with both audio and video characteristics, not as separate audio and video tracks like every other format does.) Add that to Apple's MPEG2 implementation for QuickTime being, frankly, not very good (several legitimate flavors handled poorly or not at all, generally buggy, etc.) and poorly documented, and it all translates into being something that would be very hard to just write a decrypting filter for (which is all they really do on the Windows side.) I know what I'm talking about here -- I've spent a lot of time writing QuickTime code, and a fair amount of time working with the MPEG 1 and 2 implementations (and pulling out hair over it.)

So, the "easy" road (the one most like the Windows implementation) is out. The next thing would be to build their own MPEG2 implemenation that plays well with QuickTime, and looks like other non-Apple-MPEG2 formats to the iApps. This is doable, but is a lot more work (Apple's MPEG2 implementation, poor as it is, took several years to deliver, although you could trim some time off of that by licensing some or all of the MPEG logic, which, IIRC, Apple didn't do, and wrapping that as QuickTime components.)

The last option would be to write a ground-up proprietary player for Mac OS, no QuickTime involved. Simpler than rolling their own QuickTime MPEG components, but doesn't get them access to the iApps, and gets you playback in that player only. It would mean writing their own DVD burning app (or working with a 3rd party to make that possible) if they wanted to support that, and probably wouldn't really sit all that well with Mac customers (who really want things that feel like a part of the platform.)

Delivering TTG on the Mac that is functionally identical to TTG on Windows should require the same level and type of work, but because this is MPEG2, and Apple does poorly with MPEG2, it's more work on the Mac. As I said, I have experience with this, and have no problem buying TiVoPony's comment about it being harder than it should be.

Whether Apple as a company is helping, hurting, or otherwise I have no idea. I don't see a reason why Apple's developer technical support folks wouldn't help the TiVo developers out as much as any other developer, maybe even more, if it's something that requires Apple to make big changes to QuickTime or QuickTime's MPEG2 component they probably aren't bending over backwards, either.

Wow, Thanks for explaining this Dennis.

cwoody222

09-09-2006, 09:48 AM

So, whah whah, it's hard. They've had over a year! Going on two!

And - and I've said before - this is more than just them not delivering software and missing their own deadlines... it's about a history and continued poor communication (bordering on lying or lying by omission) and a general slap in the face to Mac users.

OK, I get it, it's hard. TELL US. ASK US! Maybe we'll "settle" for the solution that doesn't "play well" with iApps. Hell, I don't even have a DVD Burner in my mac so I could care less about iMovie and iDVD. Just let me watch the damn shows on my Mac just like Windows users do!!!

Puppy76

09-09-2006, 09:59 AM

Yeah, seems like that's a good first step at least, and could be based on open source software probably (at least the player part of it).

But can't Quicktime play regular MPEG2 content? Dosen't Apple's DVD player use Quicktime? If so...what's the problem? Write some program that decodes the Tivo file and passes it to the DVD player, or Quicktime, or the iApps or whatever. If nothing else, obviously the DVD player uses MPEG2...but don't the rest of those apps too?

When all this started I was under the impression that Tivo used Microsoft encryption, and that was the holdup. Now that we know that's not true, this is ludicrous.

Dennis Wilkinson

09-09-2006, 11:07 AM

But can't Quicktime play regular MPEG2 content? Dosen't Apple's DVD player use Quicktime? If so...what's the problem? Write some program that decodes the Tivo file and passes it to the DVD player, or Quicktime, or the iApps or whatever. If nothing else, obviously the DVD player uses MPEG2...but don't the rest of those apps too?

When all this started I was under the impression that Tivo used Microsoft encryption, and that was the holdup. Now that we know that's not true, this is ludicrous.

Re-read my post. QuickTime supports MPEG2 (with an optional, for-pay, download), but does it poorly. The iApps don't fully support MPEG2 (many flavors can't be edited in iMovie, can't be source footage in iDVD, etc.) mostly because MPEG2 looks different in QuickTime than, well, everything else does. Check the support docs for the iApps sometime (I know I've posted links in the past.)

DVD Player, interestingly, doesn't use QuickTime to handle MPEG2 -- remember that QuickTime MPEG2 is optional software, and DVD Player is part of the standard installation.

Puppy76

09-09-2006, 12:48 PM

Dennis Wilkinson

09-09-2006, 01:27 PM

Okay, so just write an app that decodes for the DVD player. Worry about the rest later. Just being able to play your own shows will be enough for a lot of people. If the rest of the apps don't handle some MPEG2 streams, couldn't they write a converter that would put it in a format it DOES handle after being transfered from the Tivo, and then run THAT stream through the decoder before passing it to the iApps?

That's not how it works. Any external app that generated something the DVD Player could play back would be generating an unprotected file, which isn't something their business rules allow. There's no documented way to "plug in" a module into the DVD Player, either. You could try to fake it out with virtual file systems and the like, but that's way outside the normal "way to do things" for this type of thing, and still results in easy-to-access un-DRMed media.

To decode for the iApps, you have to write QuickTime components. The QuickTime components they would have to write encompass all of what Apple's QuickTime components do, plus decryption, plus presenting the decompressed stuff to the iApps as regular audio and video tracks without losing playback sync ('lip-sync'). It took Apple well over a year to implement their MPEG2 solution for QuickTime. If TiVo is going that route, then I'm not at all surprised that it's taking them at least that long.

They might be able to string things together such that they only have to take over most of the processing from Apple's MPEG solution and only rely on Apple's actual decompressor components (there are dozens of component types involved in QuickTime playback), but that would be pretty tricky, and sync would remain a hard problem for long shows (although new APIs in QuickTime 7 might help there.)

They could deliver a stand-alone player with a lot less effort (and some licensing of decompressors from any number of companies), but that's all they'd get, a player. That's still not feature parity with Windows, and while it might make some Mac users happy, I suspect that'd be a minority.

Fofer

09-09-2006, 03:11 PM

Re-read my post. QuickTime supports MPEG2 (with an optional, for-pay, download), but does it poorly.

The fact is, I'm able to extract video files off my (hacked) TiVo's, and play those files perfectly on my Mac with QuickTime Player (and the MPEG-2 plugin.) That's all many Mac customers want to do anyway. At least, they'd rather be able to do that (and not edit/burn) ... than be unable to do anything at all!

Dennis Wilkinson

09-09-2006, 05:55 PM

The fact is, I'm able to extract video files off my (hacked) TiVo's, and play those files perfectly on my Mac with QuickTime Player (and the MPEG-2 plugin.)

Good for you, but that's not the technical problem TiVo is trying to solve. If all they moved around was, effectively, unencrypted MPEG2, there'd be nothing for them to solve but network transport, and they'd have been done a long time ago. They have business rules that say "no moving the raw file off the TiVo unencrypted directly to a computer", which means they have to either write something that lives under QuickTime MPEG or replaces it, to play in the QuickTime/iApps space.

Fofer

09-09-2006, 06:17 PM

Understood.

Well, the best advice I can give to interested Mac users at this point, is to quit waiting and whining, and hack their TiVo's to get the results they're looking for.

After 2 years of this nonsense I don't have much faith that TiVo's actually going to deliver something better.

Puppy76

09-09-2006, 06:57 PM

I probably just don't understand this, but can't they just decrypt and pass a stream to the DVD or Quicktime player? I mean can't one or the other accept inputs of some sort?

And even if not, they could have built a player around an open source player by now.

Dennis Wilkinson

09-09-2006, 11:32 PM

I probably just don't understand this, but can't they just decrypt and pass a stream to the DVD or Quicktime player? I mean can't one or the other accept inputs of some sort?

To the DVD Player, not easily, since it doesn't support plug-ins (or, if it does, no one has discovered the private API nor is it a published API.) You could potentially do something tricky (and when I say tricky, I mean both "very difficult to do" and "inadvisable") like writing a virtual file system that treats the .tivo file so that it looks like a mounted DVD. Then you're back to a DRM-less file again (unless you can somehow make it appear to be CSS-encrypted.

QuickTime Player uses, well, QuickTime. You plug new things into it by writing new QuickTime components, which gets us back into the ugliness previously described.

A standalone player, based on open-source or not, would be the simplest thing to code, but then you have the whole feature parity thing to deal with. But because it's not the "right" way to do this on a Mac, it probably wouldn't have been the first path followed. If they end up going down that road, it may be because they spent a lot of time on the "right" way, found it impossible, and were forced to discard their previous work and start over.

FWIW, I don't claim that doing it (what I think is) the "right" way, using QuickTime and supporting the iApps, is impossible -- it's just a tough nut to crack. For something as old as it is (I remember using betas back in 1990, watching postage-stamp sized videos by The Residents on a 68K machine) QuickTime is a pretty robust architecture, and lots of things have been adapted into it.

gonzotek

09-10-2006, 09:30 AM

FWIW, I don't claim that doing it (what I think is) the "right" way, using QuickTime and supporting the iApps, is impossible -- it's just a tough nut to crack. For something as old as it is (I remember using betas back in 1990, watching postage-stamp sized videos by The Residents on a 68K machine) QuickTime is a pretty robust architecture, and lots of things have been adapted into it.I remember The Residents multimedia disc. I had a similar disc called "Isaac Asimov's The Ultimate Robot" that had all of his robot stories, as well as factual material about robots in the movies and real life, with lots of quicktime clips of the movie bots and whatnot. I used to 'borrow' the clips for my hypercard stacks. I remember being amazed at the sheer amount of content you could fit on a cd(I think I had a whopping 100MB hd at the time).

Sorry for the off-topic-ness, but by mentioning the residents, you just took me back almost 15 years!

Puppy76

09-11-2006, 09:57 AM

Hey, cool! Nothing to add, but I love Issac Asimov. I'm reading Inferno right now that's sort of a "licensed" Robot book by a different author.

macrob

09-11-2006, 09:50 PM

I just got my MacWorld (Oct 2006) and was browsing through it when I came across something that suprised me !

On page 93-94 in the Help Desk section a user was asking about getting his TV shows to his iPod. The author, Christopher Breen immediately suggests Tivo, and waiting for TiVo to Go for mac.

The suprising part was this one line:
"While TiVoToGo implementation on a Windows PC was underwhelming, taking way too long to transfer and burn programs with poor results, the Mac implementation I've seen looks far more promising."

He then goes on to talk about Dish TV DVR. But the fact that he's seen something, means TiVo has something, and I think that is pretty good news. Hopefully we"ll be the ones to see something soon!

cwoody222

09-11-2006, 09:54 PM

yea f'in right

this time.. next year.. we'll still be hopin'.. and wishin'.. TiVo has abandoned us, they don't care, they're not trying. it's done. over. there will be no support for Mac for TiVo ToGo on Mac. ever.

2farrell

09-11-2006, 10:23 PM

I was wondering if TiVo might announce something on Sept. 12th around the same time Apple is "supposed" to announce the Movie deals.
Then I wonder if there is life out there? Pigs can fly? I've ever seen the Dark Side of the Moon?

Fofer

09-11-2006, 11:45 PM

But the fact that he's seen something, means TiVo has something, and I think that is pretty good news. Hopefully we"ll be the ones to see something soon!

He's probably talking about what was shown at this year's CES. TiVoToGo for Mac, in working pre-release form:

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2006-01/tivotogo-for-mac-lives/

Lon

09-11-2006, 11:59 PM

MacWorld article mentioned is also available online:

http://www.macworld.com/2006/09/secrets/octobermac911/index.php

really doesn't say much applicable to this thread

Puppy76

09-12-2006, 10:29 AM

There should be a sticky on these forums, and Tivo should admit on their site too that they don't support Mac OS.

I think it's hilarous these people waiting for some connection between Apple's thing on the 12th and Tivo! Geez.

Dennis Wilkinson

09-12-2006, 11:17 AM

... and Tivo should admit on their site too that they don't support Mac OS.

You mean like this?

TiVo Desktop is available for the Macintosh OS X, v10.3 and later. This includes Digital Music & Photos only - not TiVoToGo

(http://www.tivo.com/desktop)

Emphasis is TiVo's.

Puppy76

09-12-2006, 11:46 AM

Yeah, that's actually better than I'd have expected.

streborekim

09-12-2006, 01:59 PM

chiefted

09-12-2006, 02:06 PM

tivo better get their act together for mac users... from today's press conference:

"Apple is releasing its long-rumored set-top box in Q1 2007. It will be Wireless... 1/2 size of Mac Mini, built-in power supply, USB, Ethernet, 802.11 "wireless component video", optical audio and HDMI ports, plus old RCA stereo audio ports. Works with Apple Remote"

Hmmmmm unless Tivo pushes TTG for Mac out soon (like in a few days) and actually delivers on their promise for Tivo To Go for Mac. I think I will be a "switcher" on this front too.

"Hello I am a Mac....and I am a Tivo"

Puppy76

09-12-2006, 02:07 PM

I am so excited about those new iPods. I mean I was still pretty happy with the ones we've had for the past year (still market leading!) The Zune really didn't compete well with LAST years iPods :D

That 'iTV' (not it's final name) looks interesting, though my understanding is it only works with content in iTunes, so unless you're rich enough to buy all your shows through the iTunes store instead of recording them, it's not a direct competitor to Tivo.

Lon

09-12-2006, 02:17 PM

"works with iTunes on PC or Mac" -- seems to me it will allow streaming from the computer to the TV at HDTV quality (based on commentators at the Showtime event)

chiefted

09-12-2006, 02:19 PM

"works with iTunes on PC or Mac" -- seems to me it will allow streaming from the computer to the TV at HDTV quality (based on commentators at the Showtime event)

Even if they don't pull of the DVR section of this (and they are trying to do that), with a Mac Mini and EyeTV I could dump my Tivo come January.

Figuring that Q1 2007 is around the time of Macworld and this is where lots of the HUGE announcements are made (Last years it was the Intel iMac and MacBook Pro).

errandwolfe

09-12-2006, 02:43 PM

Just three words...

GOOD BYE TIVO

Time to get something that actually is NOT vaporware.

blips

09-12-2006, 02:48 PM

Tivo must not be worried that Apple will cut into their sales. There probably are not enough "Mac" people here for them to care, otherwise they would have TivoToGo for the Mac out already.

blips

09-12-2006, 02:49 PM

Just three words...

GOOD BYE TIVO

Time to get something that actually is NOT vaporware.

But isn't iTV vaporware at this point? I don't think anyone can buy it right now. :confused:

Puppy76

09-12-2006, 03:02 PM

Well, it may not be out yet, but it's about as sure of a thing as you can get. It's not like Tivo's Mac OS support.

megazone

09-12-2006, 03:44 PM

iTV is just Apple Media Center Extender.

TydalForce

09-12-2006, 04:13 PM

Its basically a video version of the Airport Express - take content you have in iTunes and stream it across your network to your TV

Its pretty cool, but the big question will be what formats does it support. It looks like the video will have to be in iTunes - no big deal, you can put all kinds of video into your iTunes library

It does not have to be purchased

But then, what codecs does it support? I think it'll be H.264 (is that what its called? I'm too lazy to verify), but will it work with "anything QuickTime can play"? Like, DivX, or MPEG4 etc?

If not, I suspect there will be an easy way to convert video... and if Apple doesn't do that, there *will* be 3rd party utilities to do so (there already are for converting video to the iPod).

Combined with some good video recording software on your computer, you could cobble yourself together TiVo functionality... interesting, but until Apple makes "The whole widget", TiVo will have the DVR edge I think.

homertime

09-12-2006, 07:23 PM

Even if they don't pull of the DVR section of this (and they are trying to do that), with a Mac Mini and EyeTV I could dump my Tivo come January.

Figuring that Q1 2007 is around the time of Macworld and this is where lots of the HUGE announcements are made (Last years it was the Intel iMac and MacBook Pro).

I think this is the most important statement so far.

The fact that the HD series 3 is $800, and there won't be Tivo To Go Support before 2007 (I think it's safer to assume that then assume it's near complete), it actually makes it more affordable to purchase:
1. A mac Mini
2. Eye TV
3. An External HD

Tivo just made it unpleasant to make recordable HDTV. I guess they didn't get the newsflash how companies like DishNetwork offer their DVR in HD for only $299 with a $6 per month service fee.

Tivo has now proven to be a waste of time. You can easily outperform Tivo with the above configuration, and for less money especially if it's going to be in HD. I'll gladly hook up that configuration to my 40"LCD, and it will double as a computer.

I'll be a proudly canceling service at the end of my gift membership. I'm sick of the lack of support, the stupid useless features they add (how about a freeking free space meter already!), their advertisements within the Tivo box, slow menus, amongst all of its problems.

It's a damn shame that this has over 1,000 posts, 100,000 views, and we're still neglected.

donsullivan

09-12-2006, 08:28 PM

My 12 month committment was scheduled to wrap up at the end of this month. Based on the lack of TTG for Mac, and the success I've had with a combination of the EyeTV500, a Mac Mini and a new media interface software I've found for the mac (http://www.equinux.com/us/products/mediacentral/index.html) I just got off the phone from cancelling the service subscription on my Series 2.

It just didn't make any sense to keep the subscription active on a box that offered me no more value than I can get with the D* TiVo boxes. I can record anything I want OTA with the EyeTV and easily convert it to dump on the MacBook, the iPod or burn it to DVD with a single click. If I want to pull the commercials out I can, but that's not really that big an issue for me. I just want to be able to easily move shows to the mobile devices I have available to me so I can watch them on the road.

Their reaction was to tell me how I could buy a Series 3 and when pressed on the TTG for Mac support, the agent went away and came back with the scripted response that they had never committed to making this functionality available. Besides, TTG is not available on the S3 for any plaftorm. Time to just accept it for what it is and move on.

I guess I'll now wait for D* to start preparing me to swap out my D* TiVo hardware for their new DVR over the next year and end up abandoning TiVo totally. It's really sad to me since I was one of the very earliest adopters with my first SA box purchased in 1999 and have been an avid promoter recommending and purchasing countless other TiVo boxes over the years for others.

Puppy76

09-13-2006, 09:59 AM

tackaberry

09-13-2006, 10:16 AM

I will buy the iTv, or whatever it is called the day it comes out....by comparison, I don't plan on buying a Series3 until the price comes down significantly (even though I would love to lose my cablebox). The $199 lifetime transfer is sure tempting, but $800 isn't.

Ideally, I am still hopeful that TiVo will (some year) support TiVoToGo for Mac and will allow me to move shows recorded on my TiVo to my Mac, which can then be used as my digital library/storage, which can then be played on the iTv via its Front Row interface.

I'm really not into the idea of buying videos from the iTunes store - I much rather would prefer to have the option to rent movies either ala carte or via subscription (like netflix), and the option to purchase movies I wish to watch over and over again.

I'm glad to see that iTv supports both wired ethernet as well, as I already have a hub in my av cabinet for my TiVo & XBox

Dr_Zoidberg

09-13-2006, 10:31 AM

I will buy the iTv, or whatever it is called the day it comes out....by comparison, I don't plan on buying a Series3 until the price comes down significantly (even though I would love to lose my cablebox). The $199 lifetime transfer is sure tempting, but $800 isn't.

Ideally, I am still hopeful that TiVo will (some year) support TiVoToGo for Mac and will allow me to move shows recorded on my TiVo to my Mac, which can then be used as my digital library/storage, which can then be played on the iTv via its Front Row interface.

Lifetime transfer? I don't see that on TiVo's site. Do you have a link?

I bought lifetime service for my series 2, so I'm "stuck" with transferring to a PC (or PC in a window). I also paid for the TTG+, so I will stay with TiVo until it breaks or is supplanted by something a lot better. Maybe that's iTV, maybe not.

cwoody222

09-13-2006, 10:35 AM

Lifetime transfer? I don't see that on TiVo's site. Do you have a link?

Where have you been? :D

www.tivo.com/vip

chiefted

09-13-2006, 12:26 PM

My understanding is the EyeTV software dosen't handle scheduling/season passes very well? You have to just manually schedule stuff?

And does it allow you to use TWO tuners at once, and is it smart enough to handle that with scheduling?

*IF* it has the equivalent of season passes and dual tuners, then yeah, a Mac Mini would be all around better (and no monthly charges). Plus that iTV product coming next year opens up even more possibilities (plus it's close tie to the iPod is fantastic, etc.)

EyeTV doesn't handle this stuff however there is iEye Captain.

iEye Captain allows:

TWO EyeTV receivers to be hooked up at once
Will do "Season Pass". Though in iEyeCaptain its called just called Repeat.

With iEye Captain I can click on a program in the EPG, it downloads a small file, iEye Captain grabs it and puts in the queue for recording.

Since I am using directv I have to do one small edit but its not a big deal overall.

The program (iEye Captain) is inexpensive and the customer support has been great. They even have a deal worked out with a couple of IR blaster folks.

Dr_Zoidberg

09-13-2006, 12:41 PM

Where have you been? :D

www.tivo.com/vip

Thanks, I've only been following this thread here, not paying attention to every new thing TiVo does :D

so, I drop $1000 and get lifetime on a Series 3....knothksbye

TydalForce

09-13-2006, 03:35 PM

I too am tempted by the Series 3 - I've got a nice digital LCD TV that could use some higher-definition input. But, my Humax is doing fine... I'm nearsighted, so from where I sit I can't really tell the difference in quality much anyway

So, I'll likely stick with my Humax and not replace it unless
- It explodes
or
- TiVo gets up to speed with Mac support.

Remember, we're not looking for anything special, or anything extra - just to be treated equally and fairly.

Here's hoping my surge protector does its job!

scheckeNYK

09-13-2006, 05:36 PM

what's anyone think of the iTV gadget that was announced yesterday? Seems like they should have made the full leap and crammed that thing inside the MacMini.

derekcbart

09-13-2006, 05:59 PM

Basically it is going to be the Airport Video Express.

Here is an article that does a nice examination of the product:
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/Home/21133BEF-61B4-40C1-A976-5C1360E60694.html

TydalForce

09-13-2006, 08:21 PM

I rather like it, and might get it if my other plans on computer-to-TV don't work out as I hope

I don't think it'll replace my TiVo though (yet) but it *is* the first thing I've seen that has a worthy UI

Quevar

09-13-2006, 09:43 PM

Puppy76 wrote: "...so unless you're rich enough to buy all your shows through the iTunes store instead of recording them, it's not a direct competitor to Tivo."
Oddly enough, in many cases, it is cheaper to buy all of your shows from iTunes than to buy cable and and pay for the TiVo monthly fee*. Over the course of a year, TiVo will cost $224 (for one year prepaid). Cable is going to cost roughly $40 a month, so about $480 per year, depending on what channels you actually want. So, that is $700 a year for the TiVo solution. For $700, you can buy 351 TV shows. Most TV shows have somewhere between 15 and 24 episodes per year, so let's say an average of 20.
- You can watch 17.5 entire seasons of television for the same price as paying for cable and a TiVo for one year. How many do you watch?
- And, when you buy them from iTunes, there are no ads, so it takes even less time than it does to watch than watching on TiVo.
- And, it works on the Mac.
- And, you get DVD quality (or very close) as opposed to cable quality.

Once large numbers of people start to figure this out, TiVo and the cable companies are going to notice the impact of this. I think this is great competition to both and I'm glad to see it.

* If you have the lifetime membership, it isn't as worthwhile, but they don't sell that anymore, so I won't consider that an option.

Fofer

09-14-2006, 02:03 AM

Oddly enough, in many cases, it is cheaper to buy all of your shows from iTunes than to buy cable and and pay for the TiVo monthly fee*.

+1 Insightful

Great post, Quevar.

megazone

09-14-2006, 03:18 AM

Oddly enough, in many cases, it is cheaper to buy all of your shows from iTunes than to buy cable and and pay for the TiVo monthly fee*.
Of course, this only works if the shows are on iTunes in the first place. MOST of what I watch are NOT available on iTunes.

On top of that, they don't offer HD content (yet, I'm sure).

And many times a year I hear about some program I would normally not watch and record it, so I'd basically need a service that offers me all the content of cable, just in case.

It just doesn't come close for me.

Puppy76

09-14-2006, 09:24 AM

For me the pricing would be different, as even if I got cable it would be $30 a month (and I'd never pay that). Interesting post though.

I'd love if Apple had a subscription service. I'd go for it if it were cheap enough/month (or per show, or whatever).

tonyf3

09-15-2006, 01:27 AM

iTV is just the code name, the real name should be TiVo Killer. It's just a matter of time. They should have taken all the ranting seriously.

derekcbart

09-15-2006, 02:05 AM

iTV is just the code name, the real name should be TiVo Killer. It's just a matter of time. They should have taken all the ranting seriously.
Umm...

Why are you calling the iTV a "TiVo Killer"? It doesn't have any tuner capabilities. It doesn't have any television control capabilities. It doesn't allow you to record cable, satellite, or OTA programming.

What it really should be called is the "Airport Video Express". It's primary function is to be a way to view downloaded video files from your computer onto your TV. It doesn't have any of the functions we have come to expect from TiVo or any generic DVR. It is not going to be something to replace the DVR by any stretch of the imagination.

Here is a really good article that breaks down the function and future of the iTV:
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/Home/21133BEF-61B4-40C1-A976-5C1360E60694.html

Now, don't get me wrong. I think it is going to be a very cool device and I will probably be one of the first ones to buy it, but it is not going to be a "TiVo Killer". It just isn't going to be designed to do any of the things that the TiVo does.

cwoody222

09-15-2006, 06:52 AM

I think "broadcast TV killer" is a better name.

Although I still think we're a long way from that.

tonyf3

09-15-2006, 09:04 AM

tonyf3

09-15-2006, 09:09 AM

I think "broadcast TV killer" is a better name.

Although I still think we're a long way from that.

Careful buddy, some of us actually work in Broadcast TV.

...and yes we're a ways from that, but when iTV launches in Q1'07.
Flash forward the 2 years that TiVo has wasted screwing around, and tell me
where you think the functions of this box will be at by Jan. '09.

oh..and we'll probably still be waiting for TTG for Mac. So,.. Go iTV or whatever.

derekcbart

09-15-2006, 10:57 AM

Ok,
But if it's hit , how long do you think it'll be before it does do TiVo type stuff and do it the Apple way.
Here's another great article. This one is by Robert Cringely.
http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20060914.html

This is a follow-up to his prediction of the iTV from a year ago. It also addresses why it isn't going to be a DVR to begin with and how it will become one over time.

chiefted

09-15-2006, 03:48 PM

Umm...

Why are you calling the iTV a "TiVo Killer"? It doesn't have any tuner capabilities. It doesn't have any television control capabilities. It doesn't allow you to record cable, satellite, or OTA programming.

What it really should be called is the "Airport Video Express". It's primary function is to be a way to view downloaded video files from your computer onto your TV. It doesn't have any of the functions we have come to expect from TiVo or any generic DVR. It is not going to be something to replace the DVR by any stretch of the imagination.

How about calling it "Tivo Killer accomplice"? Again with what you are saying is that it is away to get content from your computer to your TV.

If you throw in EyeTV (and one extra program for using a set top cable/satellite box) you have what is basically an Apple Tivo. I know everyone wants to call this Apple Video Express or Apple Media Extender but stop and think that the early adopters of this are going to have the hard drive portion of the DVR, again with iTV thats the "tube" to get it to the TV. With a tuner card you have your DVR

Most of the recording I am doing right now is using my iMac and EyeTV and that extra program with anIR blaster to change the channels. It works just like my Tivo except unlike my Tivo I can get stuff off to put on my iPod or burn a DVD. All I use the Tivo for now is as a back up.

Since it is the "getting stuff off" thing...hey sounds like the vaporware called Tivo To Go for Mac...that bothers most people, I can see Tivo taking a hit.

Oh one more thing, what Steve Jobs showed was what the have now, all be it a pre-production model. What happens if you expand the size of that box to the size of a MacMini, throw a TV card in it and some software (or software upgrade to Front Row)......

Instant Apple version of Tivo. :up:

Fofer

09-15-2006, 04:37 PM

Would be nice if they threw in a Wi-Fi antenna too, allow the thing to act as a whole home router/Airport.

tonyf3

09-15-2006, 08:25 PM

Here's another great article. This one is by Robert Cringely.
http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20060914.html

This is a follow-up to his prediction of the iTV from a year ago. It also addresses why it isn't going to be a DVR to begin with and how it will become one over time.

You're right! Great article. I think he's right on the money.

porieux

09-19-2006, 05:46 PM

homertime

09-19-2006, 07:26 PM

I will be canceling my $20 a month TiVo service.

Sorry TiVo, you can't just piss down my back and tell me it's raining.

There are other options for Mac users.

http://www.elgato.com/

and the new iTV.

Sorry TiVo, you blew it. :down:

I'm right there with you. I'm tired of the lack of support, and continuously slowing speed of the menus, TV Guide, and other features. Not to mention the obnoxious pricing of the HD box. I'd rather buy a new mac mini, or iMac, or used car, or 6 year supply of toilet paper... all things more useful then the price of Tivo.

I'm sending my last email to them, and canceling.

Edit: Did I say email? Just found out they don't accept emails anymore... probably because I kept on bitching to them.

Then they'll get their last phone call, and I'm canceling.

2farrell

09-19-2006, 09:56 PM

I'm right there with you. I'm tired of the lack of support, and continuously slowing speed of the menus, TV Guide, and other features. Not to mention the obnoxious pricing of the HD box. I'd rather buy a new mac mini, or iMac, or used car, or 6 year supply of toilet paper... all things more useful then the price of Tivo.

I'm sending my last email to them, and canceling.

Edit: Did I say email? Just found out they don't accept emails anymore... probably because I kept on bitching to them.

Then they'll get their last phone call, and I'm canceling.
And don't forget the now the Series 3 doesn't have TTG right now.
That probably means in the unlikely event they do release TTG for the Mac it'll be another 2 or 3 years before it'll download shows from the S3.
I hope that Elgato release a HD box with CableCard support. That day, I'll ditch TiVo.

timg

09-19-2006, 10:15 PM

I'm sure they will release TivoToGo for the Series 3 before they release TivoToGo for Mac.

cwoody222

09-19-2006, 10:26 PM

I'm sure they will release TivoToGo for the Series 3 before they release TivoToGo for Mac.

I'd take that bet but I don't want to lose money! :D

porieux

09-20-2006, 06:23 PM

The irony is that there is so little on TV that I watch anyway, I could probably get by with buying a few things from the iTunes store (now that they are high enough res) and finding the odd thing here or there.

schalliol

09-22-2006, 03:05 PM

cwoody222

09-22-2006, 03:12 PM

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4330573&&#post4330573

homertime

09-22-2006, 05:30 PM

Bringing the thread back on track: Tomorrow it will be Fall 2006. While I haven't read all 50 pages of this thread, last I heard TiVo said that TTG for Mac would be available this Summer. TiVo, what gives? Did I missunderstand statments made by TiVo folks, or do we have an updated timeline?

You don't have to read any of the 50 pages... Just go out and buy something else, Tivo doesn't want our dirty Apple money.

What gives? They can't meet deadlines, and can't be honest about it, meaning they suck at life.

The updated timeline equals sometime in the future if at all ever. I'll pay for a service for less money for fewer features so that I'm not paying for a feature that only some customers can appreciate.

Rosincrans

09-23-2006, 01:58 PM

Tivo would at least be smart to have a supported Go Back feature before iTV comes out. If I hadn't already been using the Go Back feature thanks to this forum, I'd be a lot more tempted by iTV. And if iTV ever becomes a DVR I probably will jump ship.

homertime

09-25-2006, 11:45 PM

geekmedic

09-26-2006, 12:08 AM

Fofer

09-26-2006, 12:13 AM

Our 1500 posts and 100,000 views are clearly getting us nowhere, and my contract's not done until march...

What contract?

geekmedic

09-26-2006, 01:46 AM

I think we'll eventually get TiVo-to-Go for Mac. Perhaps TiVo was waiting on the Series 3 to be released, for CableLabs to allow transfers from Series 3 to computers, and to release it in Universal code.

I'm sure TiVo has a reason for the delay. They said they were working on a Mac version, so I'm sure they are.

donsullivan

09-26-2006, 05:56 AM

I guess we're giving up.

Maybe instead of bitching we should be doing something, like bombarding their fax machine with letters of discontent demanding answers.

Or maybe submit one of those "suggestions" requests daily, each of us... all with the same thing

Our 1500 posts and 100,000 views are clearly getting us nowhere, and my contract's not done until march... so why don't we do something?

I'll even draft a letter for you guys, so we can mass send it... all I need to know is that there's interest in doing something like that, and that people actually will.

Thoughts?

I gave up. After over 18 months of TiVo's complete disrespect for this segment of their customer base I cancelled the service on my Series 2 and put it back in the box. It will likely hit eBay in the next week or so. As D* begins finalizing the feature set of their replacement HD DVR (need OTA tuner) I'll start replacing my DTiVo's (4) with D* hardware and be done with TiVo completely.

After 7 years as a TiVo customer (purchased 15 boxes for personal use or gifts over the years) and supporter I just can no longer bring myselft to support a company that treats their customers in this way. All indications suggest that this feature is not coming for the Mac, it was never coming and TiVo will continue with vagueries around it to string people along but not deliver.

This is not a technology problem any more, it's solely about a poorly managed company that seems fundamentally unable to be honest with their customers and/or themselves. They have clearly decided that not investing in making this feature available on the Mac does not impact their business and find themselves unable to make a statement to that effect. Their actions have made it for them.

I'll likely continue following the topic, if only as an academic exercise but have no confidence that anything is going to change very soon.

Dr_Zoidberg

09-26-2006, 10:14 AM

I am not. TiVo is stll a valid service for me, because I bought the lifetime subscription, which has paid for itself since I got the unit.

I would have lept at the new series 3 model if it were $499 or less. I have Windows at home so the compatability's not a major issue.

cwoody222

09-26-2006, 10:19 AM

What contract?

Probably his TiVo Service Agreement which now has minimum service terms, just like cell phones.

homertime

09-26-2006, 05:26 PM

What contract?

I'm sorry I misspoke... I meant subscription. Paid for 1 full year.

derekcbart

09-26-2006, 05:36 PM

I just got this rather cryptic email from TiVo CEO Tom Rogers:

Thanks for the feedback. We are working on the mac issues hard. More to come.

I had emailed him about the Series 3 Shipping Fiasco/Lack of Communication and mentioned that I was used to a lack of communication from TiVo because I was a Mac user.

tonyf3

09-26-2006, 08:14 PM

This is a joke right?
They don't take email anymore but you got Tom Rodgers to respond to you?
You should have sent him the link to this thread.
Post his email address so we can all give him a piece of our minds.
Although I think Cwoody will just go off on him just for the hell of it.

So instead of "TiVo is working hard on supporting TTG for Mac"
It's now: "We are working on the Mac issues hard." Almost 3 years from the announcement, and 2 years from initial release.
Way to stay on message Tom! OMG!!!!

derekcbart

09-26-2006, 08:21 PM

cwoody222

09-26-2006, 08:26 PM

F'in' joke. Seriously.

icurnvs

09-27-2006, 03:00 AM

What I don't understand is why the NowPlaying dashboard widget has no problems downloading Tivo shows off my Tivo and it's so hard to get Tivo (the company) to get TivoToGo support to us. Is it the playback of the .tivo files that's so hard? <shrug>

cwoody222

09-27-2006, 06:47 AM

Is it the playback of the .tivo files that's so hard? <shrug>

Yes.

tonyf3

09-27-2006, 10:19 AM

donsullivan

09-27-2006, 11:13 AM

All corporate TiVo email addresses are firstinitiallastname@tivo.com, so Tom Rogers is trogers@tivo.com. I wrote to everyone listed on the TiVo Executive Management Team page using that format and only one email was returned.

Tom Rogers has been responding to every email regarding the Series 3 VIP Shipping Fiasco. The initial email response is a form letter, but if you reply to the form letter then he answers you personally (if a little cryptic).

While I can't directly dispute that you indeed heard from Tom Rogers directly in the email, I do have to wonder if it was actually him or a PR resources. In companies I've worked for in the past, the CEO's common format email address was actually routed to the Customer Relations group who responded to nearly 95% of the contacts received. We created a separate non-standard addressing format address that the CEO used for his own correspondence. He then had the choice of who he provided that email address to and only reviewed messages to that address.

It's actually a very common technique used by many senior executives of companies so they don't get flooded with emails directly from customers that they couldn't possibly have time or appropriate data to respond to accurately. It ensures that the customer gets a consistent response and keeps the executive out of the weeds a little.

In these cases, the CR folks would route the messages around the company for answers and then reply back as if it was him responding with the party line response, or specific details as appropriate. If the message should go to the CEO they could forward it to the private mailbox.

cwoody222

09-27-2006, 11:19 AM

I'd hope that that poorly worded 3 sentence reply came from a 'busy CEO' himself rather than an underling who's job is to represent the CEO.

If I was a CEO and someone sent an email on my behalf with the phrase "working on the mac issues hard" I'd fire them.

Bighouse

09-27-2006, 12:51 PM

I can see any technology developer making decisions on where to pour their R&D dollars (and support dollars) in terms of market share and all of that, so I won't belabor that issue.

But, what I don't get is if all of the recent "PC bashing" Apple ads I see on TV touting the ability of apples to do anything a PC can do, only faster, better, more hip, cooler, etc (right out of the box)....AND, all of the sales persons tell me (as do so many of my Apple friends) that they can emulate a PC and run any kind of software on it they want to, why this is such an issue for you guys with Macs?

I thought you could emulate and run Windows on your Macs? Educate me please. Why can't you simply run your Intel/Windows based Tivo software in emulation mode?

cwoody222

09-27-2006, 12:57 PM

I thought you could emulate and run Windows on your Macs? Educate me please. Why can't you simply run your Intel/Windows based Tivo software in emulation mode?

'Cause I have a PowerPC Mac.

'Cause I don't want to reboot. 'Cause I don't want to reboot into my secondary OS to do a basic function.

'Cause I own an Intel Mac but not a software license for Windows.

'Cause emulation programs can be slow.

'Cause I don't want to have to reboot into Windows just to run a decrypting program (that is not authorized by TiVo) and then have to get the file back to my preferred OS for playback.

'Cause TiVo promised us and owes us the same functionality Windows users enjoy.

'Cause I said so ;)

Fofer

09-27-2006, 01:09 PM

cwoody222, tonyf3, just curious as you both seem to be amongst the most persistent in this thread... why have you not just hacked your TiVo's already? TiVoTool (http://www.tivotool.com) works like a charm, and offers a lot that TiVoDesktop does not.

Yeah, I know that this "petition" to get TiVo to deliver as promised is much about the principle of it all, but in the meantime, you'd could enjoy all of the same benefits, with none of this silly aggravation and corporate double-speak. Life's too short to wait/complain/wait/be disappointed/wait/complain all the time.

Bighouse

09-27-2006, 01:16 PM

'Cause I have a PowerPC Mac.

'Cause I don't want to reboot. 'Cause I don't want to reboot into my secondary OS to do a basic function.

'Cause I own an Intel Mac but not a software license for Windows.

'Cause emulation programs can be slow.

'Cause I don't want to have to reboot into Windows just to run a decrypting program (that is not authorized by TiVo) and then have to get the file back to my preferred OS for playback.

'Cause TiVo promised us and owes us the same functionality Windows users enjoy.

'Cause I said so ;)

Sounds complicated. I thought Macs were easy and elegant?

Fofer

09-27-2006, 01:24 PM

I thought Macs were easy and elegant?

Did you really? Or are you just baiting?

Bighouse

09-27-2006, 01:41 PM

Did you really? Or are you just baiting?

A little bit of both! I actually wish I could run a Mac- but not because I think they're better- I do think they're more beautiful by far than any PC could ever be. I'd love to work with a machine on a daily basis and at home that had such a clean line and attention to design and detailing that the Mac does.
But, I have to choose my box based on the software I need to run for my job and occupation, not the other way around. No computer manufacturing company owns my soul...but I'd much rather have a pretty box than an ugly one if all other things were equal!

So, as someone interested in good/elegant design (I'm an architect with modernistic leanings) I've always enjoyed the products Apple has put out, but only from a distance. I'm intrigued by them and EVERY time I go to CompUSA and study their clean lines while there for some other purchase. The salesmen always come up to me and say (after I tell them the software packages I MUST be able to run) "Oh, you can run that on a Mac in emulation mode, it's easy and it works great"...and I know from others, like yourself, that it's not always rosy and easy and elegant.

So, I'm always slightly confused by the product, in part because of its followers. I'm also slightly amused that the greatest designed box out in the world, has the least support and software available for it...and yet its acolytes typically fall lockstep in stride, failing to see that perhaps its greatest strength is its true weakness. I'm reminded of the 1984 great commercial apple made, tossing the hammer of apple into the IBM dictator- and somehow feel that the cultish followers of the 1984 figure might actually be Apple advocates themselves.

Fofer

09-27-2006, 01:50 PM

I'm also slightly amused that the greatest designed box out in the world, has the least support and software available for it...

This part just isn't true. There are a few frustrating standouts (ie: witness this thread) but there's lots and lots of support and lots and lots of software in the Mac ecosystem. I like to think about it this way: There may be 100,000 apps for Windows, but only 1,000 are any good... the rest suck! There may be 10,000 apps for Mac, but 3,000 of them are excellent.

And I only need 100 of them, anyway.

geekmedic

09-27-2006, 01:55 PM

Bighouse

09-27-2006, 02:00 PM

And I only need 100 of them, anyway.

We're actually in the same boat in an odd way. I'm in it because I have to choose my box based on my software needs while you have to choose your software based on your box's needs.

I do await for a day, in the near future I think, when Apple comes out with an entirely WINDOWS based box. I'll buy that one for sure...and I think the begrudgingly/smearing/flaming advertisement campaign currently underway for their Intel based boxes portend a trend that will one day (I hope) lead to an all Windows based Apple of some sort.

I love some programs that were originally written for the Apple. I use Adobe Photoshop a lot, and Premiere as well. Do you run any applications originally targeted exclusively for a Windows box like Outlook, MS Office, Excel, Word, IE or any others?

Again, I'm not baiting- I really am engaged by Apples products and hope one day I can legitimize owning one.

Fofer

09-27-2006, 02:11 PM

Imagine if the holdup for TTG for Mac was due to compatibility with Apple's recently previewed iTV device. If you could use TTG for Mac to move things from your TiVo to the iTV, or if TiVo software was written for the iTV, then it would justify holding TTG for Mac until the iTV was released.

Oh my. You are a much bigger optimist than I. (And I'm a pretty big optimist.)

No. When/if TTG for Mac comes out, I predict it will be elegant and stable, but with a subset of the features that the Windows counterpart has. And it certainly wouldn't interface with the iTV. It'll have some proprietary DRM wrapper that restricts it, or something.

It would be cool if TiVo somehow worked out using Apple "Fairplay" DRM... but I just can't see it. The track record (of both companies) tells me otherwise.

Fofer

09-27-2006, 02:13 PM

I do await for a day, in the near future I think, when Apple comes out with an entirely WINDOWS based box. I'll buy that one for sure...and I think the begrudgingly/smearing/flaming advertisement campaign currently underway for their Intel based boxes portend a trend that will one day (I hope) lead to an all Windows based Apple of some sort.

I don't think you'll see something like that. What you will see, more likely, is an update to OS X that'll include the ability to run Windows apps more seamlessly. Think the next generation of BootCamp (Windows partition, rebooting necessary); Parallels (Windows virtualization, run apps in a window); CrossOver (run Windows apps within the Mac environment) leading the way to ... one OS that rules them all and can run any and all apps. I have to say, CrossOver is pretty sleek and paves the way for that sort of notion.

http://www.codeweavers.com/products/cxmac/

Do you run any applications originally targeted exclusively for a Windows box like Outlook, MS Office, Excel, Word, IE or any others?

Sure, I use Word and Excel.

Keynote is better than Powerpoint, and Safari is better than IE.

I recently switched from Entourage (Microsoft's version of Outlook for Mac) to Gmail, but Apple's Mail program is a worthy contender too.

cwoody222

09-27-2006, 03:13 PM

cwoody222, tonyf3, just curious as you both seem to be amongst the most persistent in this thread... why have you not just hacked your TiVo's already? TiVoTool (http://www.tivotool.com) works like a charm, and offers a lot that TiVoDesktop does not.

I've read the instructions. I'm not that savvy enough nor do I have access things like a linux HD to hook up to my TiVo or taking out the TiVo HD and plugging it into a PC or any of the other stuff I've used.

My home equipment consists of an old CRT iMac and the TiVo and a Wireless network... not quite enough to do the hacking myself.

And I haven't had the desire to send it out somewhere and pay for it to be hacked.

cwoody222

09-27-2006, 03:15 PM

I also received a cryptic email from Tom Rogers about TTG for Mac: "stay tuned."

I think they are developing software for the Mac. Perhaps it got delayed with the switch to Intel chips (and they wanted to make it Universal), perhaps it had features in it that waited on the release of the Series 3 and CableLabs approval, or perhaps they have features in it that can't be released right now.

Imagine if the holdup for TTG for Mac was due to compatibility with Apple's recently previewed iTV device. If you could use TTG for Mac to move things from your TiVo to the iTV, or if TiVo software was written for the iTV, then it would justify holding TTG for Mac until the iTV was released.

I think TiVo is up to something that can justify the delay.

Justify the 2 year delay?

Nah, don't think so.

They just haven't been able to figure it out yet. "Wah wah, it's too hard", they say. "Give us more time, we're trying really hard, we swear!" they say.

I stopped believing anything they said long ago.

The ONLY time I will believe any progress is/had being made is the day they offer the final Mac software for public download.

timg

09-27-2006, 04:20 PM

Do you run any applications originally targeted exclusively for a Windows box like Outlook, MS Office, Excel, Word, IE or any others?

Excel was actually released for Mac before it was released on Windows (actually before there was a real "Windows" OS - I don't count Windows 1.0 as a real OS).

EwanG

09-27-2006, 04:38 PM

But Tivo IS listening! The Series 3 has come out, and doesn't support TTG or GoBack. So now Windows and Mac users have the same user experience...

:p

Unix_Beard

09-27-2006, 05:13 PM

We're actually in the same boat in an odd way. I'm in it because I have to choose my box based on my software needs while you have to choose your software based on your box's needs.

I do await for a day, in the near future I think, when Apple comes out with an entirely WINDOWS based box. I'll buy that one for sure...and I think the begrudgingly/smearing/flaming advertisement campaign currently underway for their Intel based boxes portend a trend that will one day (I hope) lead to an all Windows based Apple of some sort.

I love some programs that were originally written for the Apple. I use Adobe Photoshop a lot, and Premiere as well. Do you run any applications originally targeted exclusively for a Windows box like Outlook, MS Office, Excel, Word, IE or any others?

Again, I'm not baiting- I really am engaged by Apples products and hope one day I can legitimize owning one.

If you honestly believe Steve Jobs would come out with a Windows box, you haven't been following along. It will be a cold day in hell when Jobs puts an inferior operating system on his machines.

I just got one those nifty new Intel iMacs. I set it up to dual boot Windows and I still haven't come up with anything to use the Windows partition for. Even when I have to administer a Windows box for work, I still end up using the RDC client for Macintosh.

Unix_Beard

09-27-2006, 05:23 PM

A little bit of both! I actually wish I could run a Mac- but not because I think they're better- I do think they're more beautiful by far than any PC could ever be. I'd love to work with a machine on a daily basis and at home that had such a clean line and attention to design and detailing that the Mac does.
But, I have to choose my box based on the software I need to run for my job and occupation, not the other way around. No computer manufacturing company owns my soul...but I'd much rather have a pretty box than an ugly one if all other things were equal!

So, as someone interested in good/elegant design (I'm an architect with modernistic leanings) I've always enjoyed the products Apple has put out, but only from a distance. I'm intrigued by them and EVERY time I go to CompUSA and study their clean lines while there for some other purchase. The salesmen always come up to me and say (after I tell them the software packages I MUST be able to run) "Oh, you can run that on a Mac in emulation mode, it's easy and it works great"...and I know from others, like yourself, that it's not always rosy and easy and elegant.

So, I'm always slightly confused by the product, in part because of its followers. I'm also slightly amused that the greatest designed box out in the world, has the least support and software available for it...and yet its acolytes typically fall lockstep in stride, failing to see that perhaps its greatest strength is its true weakness. I'm reminded of the 1984 great commercial apple made, tossing the hammer of apple into the IBM dictator- and somehow feel that the cultish followers of the 1984 figure might actually be Apple advocates themselves.

The short answer to your question above is that most Mac users have PowerPC based Macs and not Intel Macs. Intel macs can run Windows XP natively and dual boot. Even people that own Intel Macs would rather not shell out $199 for a Windows XP license.

I'm curious. What software do you use that shackles you to a PC?

Are you old enough to be aware of the context of the 1984 commercial?

SullyND

09-27-2006, 05:40 PM

If you honestly believe Steve Jobs would come out with a Windows box, you haven't been following along. It will be a cold day in hell when Jobs puts an inferior operating system on his machines.

Really? I doubt Windows would ever be the default OS, but installing Windows as an application (as a means to a seemless bootcamp/parallels type experience) I can certainly see.

I'm curious. What software do you use that shackles you to a PC?

My guess is, as an architect, he is tied to AutoCAD as am I.

Puppy76

09-28-2006, 11:38 AM

Bighouse, there's no emulation needed at all on any current (Intel based) Macs. You just run Windows directly (or side by side with OS X with virtualization software, or run programs through Wine, etc.).

You could buy a Mac now and only run Windows on it, if you really wanted to.

Anyway, Tivo's lack of OS X support is pretty uncommon, and is Tivo's fault. They just need software that decrypts their DRM and passes it to a video player (or to iDVD, whatever.). It's especially weird as it's THEIR DRM, and on top of that there are plenty of open source players they could modify if for some reason Quicktime or the DVD player aren't suitable as players.

Bighouse

09-28-2006, 07:54 PM

My guess is, as an architect, he is tied to AutoCAD as am I.

Correct. AutoCAD hasn't been coded for a Mac platform since release 12, and that was like...oh, centuries ago. And I doubt very much that it would run perfectly on even an Intel based Mac box...it often doesn't run well enough even for the platform it's written for!!!

And yes, Unix_Beard, I'm certainly old enough to remember the content of the 1984 commercial- I'm probably older than you! I was born in the 50's...does that quality me as having been around long enough???

Cheers,

Robert

Bighouse

09-28-2006, 08:01 PM

If you honestly believe Steve Jobs would come out with a Windows box, you haven't been following along. It will be a cold day in hell when Jobs puts an inferior operating system on his machines.

Please, I've never called the Apple inferior- don't go getting yourself worked up with hystrionics. I do admire the machines...just can't use one. We get what we deserve- and if you choose a system that has a very small market share, then you get the software that developers can legitimately affort to market for it.

I think that the "it will be a cold day in hell" line was probably said long ago by many other Apple users too. Only they probably said something like "It will be a cold day in hell when Jobs puts the ability to run Windows on one of his machines or jumps into the sack with Intel."

Hell could freeze over. Anything's possible. Actually, if Apple really wanted to rock the world, they'd do just that. Imagine the power and might and cache Jobs would have if suddenly his computers were the standard used in the business and consumer industry? Imagine if Apple had a 90% share of computers worldwide and not 4-10%.

;)