Mac Users lack Tivo togo support [Text View] - Page 3

Fofer

04-13-2005, 11:06 AM

Its not a priority for M$, they make $0 off of it and it costs them $$$. It wont happen.

The update from version 7 to version 9 was pretty significant, and it works reasonably well.

And the update I'm expecting (one day?) will be the one that brings Mac users access to Microsoft-DRM-encoded content. So we can play music from online stores OTHER than the iTunes Music Store, purchase legal movie downloads from the likes of CinemaNow, and even use "Plays for Sure" digital music devices.

So yes, Microsoft stands to make a lot of $$$ off if it. If only they'd build it.

Your assumption makes very little business sense. They also lose $ on every Xbox sold, but cranking them out is a huge priority for them. They make the money back on the game licensing. There's a bigger picture - an ecosystem - at play. And Microsoft understands that better than anyone!

Now, if they choose to bow out of a comparison simply because they can't compete and know their offering will pale by comparison (ie: Safari vs. MSIE) then that's a different story. And very sad. Not to mention disappointing to a customer hoping to benefit from the innovation bred by competition.

gonzotek

04-13-2005, 11:10 AM

If you also look at that resume, you'll note that the resume basically states that van Hoff no longer works for TiVo.

So, Mr. Strangeberry being gone would again not be a good sign in terms of expecting any revelatory technology innovations from TiVo. This would include Mac TiVoToGo.Well, I don't know anything for sure, and I agree it does look like his employment stops at 2005, but his last message to the tivohme developers list is dated Mar. 26, and his latest Google Maps HME release is dated April 7. Regardless, TiVo developed things before he was involved, and Java has done alright for itself since he left its development team. TiVo still has a contest running for HME developers until May 1, we'll see what happens with HME after then(does it stagnate?, does development on the SDK continue?, does TiVo announce that they officially kill it off?, etc.)
Its not a priority for M$, they make $0 off of it and it costs them $$$. It wont happen.They could make money off their drm licensing. Opening up the Media Player music stores to Mac users would just allow that much more money to flow into their coffers.

dropd

04-13-2005, 11:17 AM

Well, I don't know anything for sure, and I agree it does look like his employment stops at 2005, but his last message to the tivohme developers list is dated Mar. 26, and his latest Google Maps HME release is dated April 7. Regardless, TiVo developed things before he was involved, and Java has done alright for itself since he left its development team. TiVo still has a contest running for HME developers until May 1, we'll see what happens with HME after then(does it stagnate?, does development on the SDK continue?, does TiVo announce that they officially kill it off?, etc.)
They could make money off their drm licensing. Opening up the Media Player music stores to Mac users would just allow that much more money to flow into their coffers.

Yes, he released the Google Maps thing, but hasn't really been seen on the HME developer list since (and even when he was, his email address was a gmail address, not a tivo.com address. That could mean lots of different things though).

And the Tivo participation on the HME developer list has slowed to a trickle, with lots of interesting questions going completely ignored/unanswered. One gets the sense that the HME api is not a current priority for TiVo (that is, evidence is mounting that it's ALREADY stagnating).

It just seems that TiVo's sole focus is on money right now. Which is I guess what they feel they need to do financially. It's just that they way they're going about it is generating ill will unnecessarily.

AnteL0pe

04-13-2005, 11:24 AM

So yes, Microsoft stands to make a lot of $$$ off if it. If only they'd build it.
This is doubtful. Remember, us Mac users are an incredibly small portion of the world

Your assumption makes very little business sense. They also lose $ on every Xbox sold, but cranking them out is a huge priority for them. They make the money back on the game licensing. There's a bigger picture - an ecosystem - at play. And Microsoft understands that better than anyone!
I see the bigger picture, i see the market, i know the loyalty of Mac users, and I understand the way M$ is making money on the Xbox. The gamble you want M$ to take is that the investment in a Mac client now and down the road will be overshadowed by the money they may make off of the Mac market on DRM licensing and media. I dont think that revenue stream will amount to much. Mac users will buy iPods, they are far less likely to buy something else.

Mac user favor simplicity and useability, thats why they are Mac users. Mac users like the iTMS and will continue to use it. Not just because its from Apple, but because its easy and elegant. Show me one thing from M$ that has even been easy and elegant (besides mice and keyboards). I dont see the market that you think exists.

Mac users have almost no need for WMP at this point, and while your experience with it may have been ok, every Mac user I know hates the app because its total garbage. Updates come far after Windows releases and even the newest version wont play all the Windows Media formats. Whats the point? I think VLC does a better job at playing Windows Media on the Mac than WMP does.

gonzotek

04-13-2005, 11:27 AM

Yes, he released the Google Maps thing, but hasn't really been seen on the HME developer list since (and even when he was, his email address was a gmail address, not a tivo.com address. That could mean lots of different things though).

And the Tivo participation on the HME developer list has slowed to a trickle, with lots of interesting questions going completely ignored/unanswered. One gets the sense that the HME api is not a current priority for TiVo (that is, evidence is mounting that it's ALREADY stagnating).

It just seems that TiVo's sole focus is on money right now. Which is I guess what they feel they need to do financially. It's just that they way they're going about it is generating ill will unnecessarily.No argument with that really. Looking through my archive of the developers list, he started using the gmail address as early as Feb. 10. Prior to that his email came from a tivo.com address, and had tivo-specific address information in his signature. but I agree, that doesn't really tell us anything useful about anything.

Fofer

04-13-2005, 11:32 AM

It just seems that TiVo's sole focus is on money right now. Which is I guess what they feel they need to do financially.

Heh. "Focus on money" usually has something to do with financial priorities.

Just sayin'. ;)

Fofer

04-13-2005, 11:37 AM

This is doubtful. Remember, us Mac users are an incredibly small portion of the world

I see the bigger picture, i see the market, i know the loyalty of Mac users, and I understand the way M$ is making money on the Xbox. The gamble you want M$ to take is that the investment in a Mac client now and down the road will be overshadowed by the money they may make off of the Mac market on DRM licensing and media. I dont think that revenue stream will amount to much. Mac users will buy iPods, they are far less likely to buy something else.

...

Mac users have almost no need for WMP at this point, and while your experience with it may have been ok, every Mac user I know hates the app because its total garbage. Updates come far after Windows releases and even the newest version wont play all the Windows Media formats. Whats the point? I think VLC does a better job at playing Windows Media on the Mac than WMP does.

The Macintosh Business Unit is very successful and makes lots and lots of money off of the Office suite. Gates himself has defended it as a star performer. So what they should do is update WMP and (perhaps) include it with the purchase of Office.

That said, I hear your points. I'm just holding on to hope that Microsoft sees the business potential of giving Mac users more choice. WMP 9 isn't horrific (when compared to previous versions, or compared to having nothing at all) but it sure could use some improvement. Not to mention DRM compatibility, to potentially address some of the concerns suggested in this thread. I guess I'm hoping that the profit potential from the DRM is what would entice them to update it.

That said, yes, VLC works for some WMP-playable files, but there are some files where only WMP will play them. And it's those files that would benefit from an updated player.

cwoody222

04-13-2005, 11:44 AM

Why does everyone keep stating as fact that the DRM used by TiVo is a MicroSoft developed DRM? Is there some actual, technical evidence, or just the supposition that because it currently works on Windows only, it must have come from MS? Because the various DRM implementations that have come from MS so far have been examined by lots of people and look NOTHING like the .tivo way of doing things. There's also this, the resume of one Arthur Van Hoff, Principal Engineer of TiVo, which states that he (and I quote):http://www.artfahrt.com/personal/resume-mar-2005.pdf

If there is some factual evidence somewhere that MS did in fact create the DRM used by TiVo for TTG, please please please point me to it.

True. And this has been discussed before, just as I have mis-stated it before.

The DRM wasn't created by MS per se but I don't think it was fully created by TiVo either. I don't really understand the difference between the DRM and the "DirectShow Filter". In my less-technical mind anything that 'protects' the file is part of the DRM scheme.

Whether TiVo used something created by MS, used something created by another 3rd party that relied on a MS product (WMP), used something created by another 3rd party that TiVo knew didn't work with Macs, or created it themselves and left out Mac users on purpose is all the same to me.

TiVo could have supported Mac users if they wanted to. They choose not to.

It's pretty clear they didn't do it *solely* by themselves. Meaning their lack of Mac support is now tied to something out of their control. Which sucks.

At least if TiVo did it all themselves (again, they only had a full 12 months :rolleyes:) we'd have hope since it'd be in their hands.

But Mac TiVo ToGo's future now lies in the hands of someone else... that is, unless TiVo plans to spend money to make a Mac-exclusive solution (unlikely) or spend money to develop their own cross-platform solution (unlikely since the Windows version works 'fine' now).

Fofer

04-13-2005, 11:53 AM

AnteL0pe

04-13-2005, 11:58 AM

AnteL0pe characterized Mac users as a more discerning bunch, favoring elegance and simplicity over raw feature-set. And for the most part that's true. As a die-hard Mac user though, I do see my future allegiance moving to another PVR. I don't like being closed out of anything due to miscellaneous "market forces" and will do what I have to do to enjoy all that the technology has to offer ME.
Youre totally correct there. I am about to start investigating hacking my TiVo as it will offer me the ability to transfer shows off my TiVo, and to do it at far better transfer rates than TTG. Im also looking at the Comcast DVRs with their firewire port that can be used to pull unencrypted standard and HD content. Seems a bit more feature rich than TTG already.

Has TiVo jumped the shark?

ZeoTiVo

04-13-2005, 12:12 PM

I've said this before but it bears repeating: the sucky part about all of this is that it comes down to DRM.

Preexisting HACKS (ie prior to TiVoToGo) already prove that TiVo extractions play just fine on the Mac!

In time, Mac users will either (A) not care about extracting, (B) will hack a more lenient system to take their recordings "to go," or (C) will move on to the Next Great PVR.

AnteL0pe characterized Mac users as a more discerning bunch, favoring elegance and simplicity over raw feature-set. And for the most part that's true. As a die-hard Mac user though, I do see my future allegiance moving to another PVR. I don't like being closed out of anything due to miscellaneous "market forces" and will do what I have to do to enjoy all that the technology has to offer ME.

Youre totally correct there. I am about to start investigating hacking my TiVo as it will offer me the ability to transfer shows off my TiVo, and to do it at far better transfer rates than TTG. Im also looking at the Comcast DVRs with their firewire port that can be used to pull unencrypted standard and HD content. Seems a bit more feature rich than TTG already.

Has TiVo jumped the shark?

I see both of these as reasonable options and reasonably stated without a bias I might add. ;)

as for Jumped the shark, Time will tell if susbcriptions start to fall off from this or not.

Fofer

04-13-2005, 02:08 PM

Has TiVo jumped the shark?

For me, TiVo jumped the shark when HMO/MRV was announced at CES more than 2 years ago, I asked about these new features coming to the DirecTiVo, and was met with blank stares. After 18 months of vague statements, I pretty much grokked what was going on... was happy to be able to hack my hardware. Yes, it works great for me -- best of all worlds, currently. But I have begun plotting my next "whole house" A/V config.

See, I'm one of those who appreciates the integration of the receiver/TiVo combo and can't even imagine going back to separate boxes.

That said, I understand my personal gripe is more with DTV than it is with TiVo. Then TiVo needs to get their cable card box out ASAP, or should've forged a better relationship with DTV.

If I'm going to "upgrade" to anything then I better not lose any "official" features in the process (ie: two tuners, speed, good picture, etc.)

(This, coming from a TiVo loyalist who the LA Times has said is keeping the company afloat (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=226024) during their darkest hour.)

ZeoTiVo

04-13-2005, 03:21 PM

For me, TiVo jumped the shark when HMO/MRV was announced at CES more than 2 years ago, I asked about these new features coming to the DirecTiVo, and was met with blank stares. After 18 months of vague statements, I pretty much grokked what was going on...
I have the same misgivings about the Comcast deal. It will result in an integrated box with two tuners and HD (and cash flow for TiVo) so that is a good thing but Comcast will get to control what else the box can do. I grokked a bit as well from the press releases that mentioned the deal was specific about ad delivery but just kind of mentioned other features like HMO as an oh yah those too. I Know TiVo learned from the DirectTV deal but that does not mean they can force Comcast to take on other features.

and I realy was dismayed that it would take the cable card TiVo off the "Do or Die" status and sure enough just a few days later The FCC extended the deadline for Cable Companies to have to use Cable Cards without even the obligatory comment from TiVo.

So this saves TiVo by giving it the chance at easy cash flow but puts a big damper on things like an integrated two Tuner HD Stand Alone TiVo and TTG for Mac. :(

kb7rjf

04-13-2005, 06:32 PM

I *STILL* think that the DRM is smoke in this case. I can play the recording into a vcr/dvd-r in real time, and not encounter the DRM issue. All of the material going INTO the tivo is stuff I could just as easily tape. All the tivo does for me is give me a really cool autoprogrammer, and save me buying tape/blank dvds. The fact that it took 14 hours to transfer a 30 minute show to my mac (and maybe in the next 100 years I'll be able to WATCH the thing) makes me wonder if it's even worth it?

Would the Betamax decision cover tivo as well? I see no reason why not.

I guess that I need to plug my vcr into my tivo for the stuff I want to keep, and /or get a video capture card for the computer.
Is there a way to tell tivo to play the playlist from top to bottom? Then I could capture into the computer while I am at work. :)

ZeoTiVo

04-13-2005, 10:21 PM

it is hard to trade VCRs(edit - oops meant VHS) over the internet. Video capture cards in PCs is on the list of stuff content providers want to see DRM added to. PC cards are supposed to respond to broadcasr flags on digital content sometime soon as well (it is the digital copies Content providers are worried about) I think TiVo built in DRM to the analog stuff just to have a consistent application as this moves on to HD content down the road.

there is no batch play. it is one at a time.
PS the 14 hours to move a 30 minute file is a network problem not a TiVoToGo problem.

Unix_Beard

04-13-2005, 10:24 PM

What is this VCR you speak of?

:D

AnteL0pe

04-14-2005, 09:31 AM

Would the Betamax decision cover tivo as well? I see no reason why not.
The DMCA has pretty much trumped most of what the Betamax decision gave to consumers. Untill the DMCA can be 100% struck down in court there is very little "fair use" anymore.

scheckeNYK

04-14-2005, 10:14 AM

No, they have to buy a $79 suite of software. iDVD 5 doesn't come preloaded, you buy it as part of iLife. That's on top of the $129 for the OS.

http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0504macs.html

As first reported over a month ago, the updated iMac G5, code-named Q45 C/D, will reach 2GHz, while video memory is doubled to 128MB and the card itself upgraded to ATI's Radeon 9600. All models will also feature Bluetooth 2.0 and will ship pre-installed with Tiger and iLife '05.

New Macs do ship with iLife. Of course now you're talking about the world's largest dongle for TTG, but there will be many people who are in this scenario who can benefit from it. I don't know what other people's systems are like, but I do know that my PowerBook did come complete w/iDVD. AFAIK Garage Band is the only thing not pre-loaded in those rare cases.

AnteL0pe

04-14-2005, 10:21 AM

AFAIK Garage Band is the only thing not pre-loaded in those rare cases.
GB and Keynote didnt come on older systems i believe. They are both part of iLife 05

Fofer

04-14-2005, 10:22 AM

GB and Keynote didnt come on older systems i believe. They are both part of iLife 05

Keynote isn't part of iLife. It was originally sold as just Keynote, and now version 2.0 comes with iWork (which includes Pages.)

AnteL0pe

04-14-2005, 10:23 AM

Keynote isn't part of iLife. It was originally sold as just Keynote, and now version 2.0 comes with iWork (which includes Pages.)
Doh! Youre right! I bought iLife and iWorks together and got them confused.....

dylanemcgregor

04-14-2005, 11:29 AM

Fofer

04-14-2005, 11:34 AM

As far as Mac integration goes, I am happy with the current TiVo desktop for sharing iTunes and iPhoto libraries. It works well, has a small footprint, I can see all of my playlists (smart and otherwise) and I'm even playing AAC files (thanks to the installation of LAME.)

It's the "new" integration, that of viewing TiVo'ed files on my Mac, that the company's dropped the ball on. And thankfully I can hack right past them.

This "quote" does say much to me about TiVo's priorities though. And that's why I'm looking onto the horizon for my next PVR...

AnteL0pe

04-14-2005, 11:35 AM

Years.... YEARS?! Well thats just fantastic. Now what is that other site where theres directions on hacking a TiVo? Jebus......

kb7rjf

04-14-2005, 11:39 AM

unfortunatley, I am not allowed to ask you how you solved that particular problem, nor are you allowed to tell me; due to the restrictions of this forum. I wonder if you would be allowed to tell me where I might go to find this forbidden information without invoking the wrath of the moderators. ;)

I *DID* take the opportunity to purchase a couple of hdtv tuner cards, and I may end up hacking together my own pvr, but I *REALLY LIKE* the tivo programming service.

gonzotek

04-14-2005, 11:42 AM

http://www.dailypennsylvanian.com/vnews/display.v/ART/425e17f82bf08

Article form the school paper where the CFO spoke. Here's how they are quoting him regarding Mac support.
However, the overlap of users of Apple and TiVo has not been enough to strike any chemistry between the companies.

"We haven't committed to any plans [for integration] to it because of the cost," Courtney said.

He added that being able to watch media on Apple computers using TiVo seems unlikely "unless we find a way to record it under the current platform, and I don't think that will happen in the next few years."Next few years??? If that is an accurate quote, ouch! Sorry Mac/TiVo users. :( :(

-DylanThat quote is really confusingly ambiguous. Taken only in the context of the article, it could mean:
A tivo playing back media produced and/or stored on a Mac (e.g. a quicktime movie->TiVo playback)...
OR: Playing back tivo-recorded content on a Mac(.tivo->Mac playback)....

The comment about being 'able to record it under the current platform' makes me think he was alluding to moving files from the computer back to TiVo, not the other way around. But if we figure in the context of what the member who attended the talk, who posted about this earlier, it would seem to be the second. It would be excellent if TiVo would make a definitive, clear statement about it's intentions regarding Mac support.

kb7rjf

04-14-2005, 11:47 AM

Agreed. Worst case, I'll use tivo for some shows, and the VCR for anything I may want to keep.
Maybe someone will develop a linux solution for this problem, and we can compile it to run on os-x. THAT would, in my case, be best, because I could use any of my various machines. :)

Windows-free and lovin' it! :)

Unix_Beard

04-14-2005, 12:26 PM

unix_beard AT yahoo.com

If anyone wants to share any info on ways around our current limitation, I'd appreciate it.

e30mpower

04-14-2005, 12:32 PM

OK, just got off the phone with TiVo... It had been a while since anyone had called, as I gather from the posts. At first I was put on hold while she tried to find out an exact date, but then was told that she doesn't have one but she "understood my frustration." And after apologizing profusely, which always softens me up, the call was over. At this point I can only assume that it's likely never to be released. I suppose I'll have to start looking for "alternatives," either to circumvent the lack of Mac support, or switch to a different DVR altogether. Too bad. Oh well, just thought I'd make that little snippet of TiVo's lack-of-progress.

Rangers4me

04-14-2005, 01:08 PM

http://www.dailypennsylvanian.com/vnews/display.v/ART/425e17f82bf08

Article form the school paper where the CFO spoke. Here's how they are quoting him regarding Mac support.

Next few years??? If that is an accurate quote, ouch! Sorry Mac/TiVo users. :( :(

-Dylan

I am actually quoted in the article, right before the information about the Tivo 2 Go for the mac. I asked Mr. Courtney the question, and then the news-article writer interviewed me. I can tell you that I personally believe that what Mr. Courtney was saying was that there are no future plans for Tivo 2 Go on the mac, unless it becomes less cost prohibitive. He did go on to say that half the engineers at TiVo use macs to code for the system.

dylanemcgregor

04-14-2005, 01:14 PM

I am actually quoted in the article, right before the information about the Tivo 2 Go for the mac. I asked Mr. Courtney the question, and then the news-article writer interviewed me. I can tell you that I personally believe that what Mr. Courtney was saying was that there are no future plans for Tivo 2 Go on the mac, unless it becomes less cost prohibitive. He did go on to say that half the engineers at TiVo use macs to code for the system.

So just to clarify. Did the reporter actually talk to Mr. Courtney, or is she quoting you, quoting him?

-Dylan

dropd

04-14-2005, 01:16 PM

So just to clarify. Did the reporter actually talk to Mr. Courtney, or is she quoting you, quoting him?

-Dylan

I think it's obvious from reading the article that her direct quotes attributed to Courtney are quotes from the speech he gave to this group of UPenn students. It would be a MAJOR ethical violation for the reporter to attribute a "hearsay" quote directly to a person.

dylanemcgregor

04-14-2005, 01:19 PM

I think it's obvious from reading the article that her direct quotes attributed to Courtney are quotes from the speech he gave to this group of UPenn students. It would be a MAJOR ethical violation for the reporter to attribute a "hearsay" quote directly to a person.

I thought so too, but see Rangers4me quote from the other thread:

I posted some more information in the other thread. I am actually quoted in the article, right before the information on the mac. The reporter interviewed me after I asked Mr. Courtney the question on Tivo2Go for the mac, so she is spewing the same exact information that I heard.

gonzotek

04-14-2005, 01:37 PM

It would be a MAJOR ethical violation for the reporter to attribute a "hearsay" quote directly to a person."Ethical" and "the Press" don't always go hand in hand these days, you know? ;) But I do agree.

Fofer

04-14-2005, 01:43 PM

It seems the question was asked about TiVoToGo for Mac, and the question was asked (unfavorably.)

As far as viewing video content stored/created on a Mac onto a TiVo... the funny thing is, since DRM should be less of an issue, one would think TiVo would be all over this. (Not just for Mac, but for PC as well!) Why fuss with the content creators silly concerns (advertising, piracy, etc.) and instead leverage the consumers own content, and their ability to download content online.

But something tells me TiVo won't bother with this either.

In the meantime my modded Xbox (with XBMC) plays all of my Mac video (in addition to streaming lots of online video content) wonderfully.

MerlinMacuser

04-14-2005, 03:33 PM

I got one of the new Comcast DCT6412 boxes for my main TV room and it is great. Different from Tivo for sure but mostly better in ways that really matter to me. The interface is not as simple but I'm smart enough to adapt. Watching Tivo in my study now is almost painful. I'm working on re-painting that room and when I'm done, I'm getting another DCT6412. Tivo's heading to the basement to live with my futon. lava lamp and Farrah Fawcett poster.

Unix_Beard

04-14-2005, 03:35 PM

Merlin - does the Comcast box have a Firewire port? What makes it better than a Tivo?

AnteL0pe

04-14-2005, 03:39 PM

As far as viewing video content stored/created on a Mac onto a TiVo... the funny thing is, since DRM should be less of an issue, one would think TiVo would be all over this. (Not just for Mac, but for PC as well!) Why fuss with the content creators silly concerns (advertising, piracy, etc.) and instead leverage the consumers own content, and their ability to download content online.
Ive yet to see a "Mac Only" set of steps for removing the DRM. I have done this using a Win PC, but it seems impossible on OS X or Linux because of a lack of DirectShow filters. If this isnt the case I would love to be enlightened.

cwoody222

04-14-2005, 03:41 PM

Merlin - does the Comcast box have a Firewire port? What makes it better than a Tivo?

Firewire, HD-recording, 2 tuners, price, etc. etc.

cwoody222

04-14-2005, 03:41 PM

Ive yet to see a "Mac Only" set of steps for removing the DRM. I have done this using a Win PC, but it seems impossible on OS X or Linux because of a lack of DirectShow filters. If this isnt the case I would love to be enlightened.

Ditto here. Using a WinPC is one thing, doing it solely on a Mac is nother. That's the holy grail right now, I think. If TiVo isn't doing anything to help us, someone WILL hack it eventually and Mac users will be able to enjoy non-DRM content.

And TiVo will have no one to blame but themselves.

Unix_Beard

04-14-2005, 03:45 PM

Firewire, HD-recording, 2 tuners, price, etc. etc.

Yes, but he said "Watching Tivo in my study now is almost painful."

My cable company offers DVRs but not HD in my neighborhood. I have no use for two tuners. Firewire would be interesting.

Who makes these boxes for Comcast? I'd like to find out the model my cable company uses.

Fofer

04-14-2005, 03:50 PM

Ive yet to see a "Mac Only" set of steps for removing the DRM. I have done this using a Win PC, but it seems impossible on OS X or Linux because of a lack of DirectShow filters. If this isnt the case I would love to be enlightened.

I'm not using TiVoToGo to extract my shows. The methods that preceded TTG are much faster (but involve significant hackery.) Sadly, we must go elsewhere to discuss this.

Lon

04-14-2005, 03:50 PM

Who makes these boxes for Comcast? I'd like to find out the model my cable company uses.

I believe Motorola does (they make the DCT series boxes). I've 2 of the DCT 6208 (DVR, firewire and HD)

Unix_Beard

04-14-2005, 03:51 PM

Have you tried yanking video out of the firewire port?

ZeoTiVo

04-14-2005, 03:54 PM

Have you tried yanking video out of the firewire port?
SavMan had a link to a site that explained how to do it. It had multiple steps involved but looked straightforward enough. You can get non-DRMed HD and SD content with the method ready to use in most any Mac app. The weird irony here is that in 2006 some may be using a Comcast/TiVo to pull video out of the firewire onto the Mac as TTG won't work

Lon

04-14-2005, 03:58 PM

Have you tried yanking video out of the firewire port?
Yes, works fairly well. Using "iRecord" available from: http://macpvr.home.comcast.net/irecord.html (not anywhere near as functional as TiVo -- but great, usable)

You can play captured streams (.ts files) with VLC (I recommend latest build 0.8.1) http://videolan.org/vlc/

You can also watch live tv streams using an earlier version of VLC (0.7.2) and iRecord's author's vlc module (see http://macpvr.home.comcast.net/ )

HD broadcasts are tricky to watch live (don't always work well) but capture/playback fine -- and WOW what quality! (I have a 20in LCD :) )

Rangers4me

04-14-2005, 04:09 PM

So just to clarify. Did the reporter actually talk to Mr. Courtney, or is she quoting you, quoting him?

-Dylan

After the lecture, I went up to him and asked him a couple questions. One of them being, is there going to be Tivo 2 Go for the mac in the future? She is summarizing, his answer to my question, of which she overheard.

Quevar

04-15-2005, 05:30 PM

I just sent store{at}tivo{dot}com an email asking them about TTG on the Mac and here is the reply I got from them:
"Thank you for your inquiry. TiVo is working hard to make the TiVoToGo(tm) feature available on TiVo Desktop for Mac. We are currently working on ways to enable playback on Apple Macintosh computers. This is absolutely one of our priorities at this time. We will let our customers know in our newsletter as soon as this feature is available. If you do not already subscribe to the newsletter, you can go here <I can't post links>**to do so. We apologize for any inconveniences this may have caused you. In the meantime, if you have any further questions or concerns, please feel free to contact us. Thank you for your time." (reply sent on April 15th at 3:30 PM)
They seem to be giving us very conflicting information. I'm hoping we'll see something come at the beginning of May (i.e. after Tiger is out). I'm only hopeful of this time frame cause it is the next one that I can be hopeful of.

timg

04-15-2005, 05:47 PM

That's the same thing they've been saying since January.

ZeoTiVo

04-15-2005, 10:56 PM

chessplayer

04-17-2005, 09:52 AM

that is the same stuff as in the FAQ save for the "is absolutely one of our priorities at this time." which is not in the FAQ for some reason. Great weasel words. It's one of their "priorities" -- could be the very lowest of their priorities. And it's just "at this time" -- this doesn't sound very committed, now does it?

hawk4hire

04-17-2005, 10:10 AM

Isnt that like giving a pre-pre-engagement ring? Maybe one day kind-of, sort-of we maybe, might can get married? And oh yes I fogot - You have to agree that I am also free to change the terms of our marriage at anytime I want to! ;)
Wonder which girl would accept that kind of proposal???

hawk

HDTiVo

04-17-2005, 10:46 AM

hawk4hire

04-17-2005, 11:24 AM

lmao HD - that was too funny....

hawk

Jeffsters

04-17-2005, 11:40 AM

Jeffsters

04-17-2005, 11:50 AM

Little correction here for TiVoBill. Apple's iTunes purchased music limitations are the result of the demands of the content owners so lets move past that now ok? Second, AAC is an open format that TiVo could support without question. I also find it amusing that TiVo would use Apple's enforcement of it's content providers as some sort of vindication for not doing something while at the same time using it's in bed strategy with Microsoft's DRM to justify the same when the show is on the other foot. In tother words, TiVo seems to be faulting Apple for using what they see as a hardware limited DRM scheme while at the same time quick to justify their use of a OS limited DRM when it suits them.

corjulo

04-17-2005, 04:57 PM

Releaux

04-17-2005, 05:58 PM

I'm disappointed in TiVo's recent announcement that they're not going to support TTG on Mac any time soon, but frankly I'm not all that surprised. They've been headed down the standard corporate path since they decided to start locking up the data streams with the Series 2. I understand the predicament they're in having to balance consumer and provider needs, but their market space is starting to get crowded.

For those of us who feel more strongly that our fair use rights not be hobbled by conglomerate pandering efforts, perhaps it's time to start talking about TiVo alternatives that are either mac-specific, mac-friendly, or at the very least, not mac-hostile.

I love my TiVo and its ease-of-use is great for casual show surfing, but if I want to dump the last five episodes of my favorite sit-com onto a DVD or hard drive for business trips (and I often "save up" episodes for consumption all at once), what am I supposed to do if TiVo doesn't care to support me?

I'll keep my 320 hour Series 2 with the lifetime subscription until it croaks, but I don't think I'll be getting another TiVo. Not just because of the Mac support thing, but that's certainly a pretty big part of it.

Unix_Beard

04-17-2005, 06:46 PM

If someone could market a stackable addon to the MacMini that had the mpeg2 encoder hardware inside and could connect to the Mac via Firewire, that could be the answer. This company packages a remote and software and the problem is solved. This could even connect to a Mini over ethernet in another room. Maybe Apple has their eye on this. I have no idea of the feasibility but it sounds good to me. Perhaps Apple could make a modified mini? You could go right out the DVI port to a modern TV too. :)

ZeoTiVo

04-18-2005, 10:48 AM

I smell a class action suit coming. Tivo promised Mac support. As a stock holder I believe they mislead investor as to what the planned to deliver. I really hoped Tivo get's sued over this. As I have mentioned many times I called tivo three times prior to the release of Tivo to go and was assured mac support would be included. I purchased a new Tivo and Tivo stock, in part, based on that promise.

I believe I can file a complaint under Sarbane Oaxley with the FTC. I'll do some research and see if that possible.

Problem is Tivo has never committed to actual TTG on Mac support nor has TiVo the company ever said it would not deliver TTG on Mac. Instead we have the stuff of the FAq saying things like "we are working on ways to implement it" it does not even say they are working on an actual implementation.

Then we have the CFO giving off the cuff remarks and he may even weasel out with he was not actually giving an interview and therefor it was not on the record.

so you are left with getting actual proof of the CSR calls and what they said and then having to go through discovery to actually find out what if any plans TiVo has for TTG on Mac.

The whole thing just sucks

corjulo

04-18-2005, 03:04 PM

Fofer

04-18-2005, 03:30 PM

All of this is rumored to be ready for release from Apple in the Next few months

Ha!

So is an Apple branded Segway with built-in wireless iPod.

amgqmp1

04-18-2005, 04:09 PM

Unix_Beard

04-18-2005, 04:18 PM

Am I missing something? Elgato already has this...

http://www.elgato.com/index.php?file=products_eyetv200

Can you go out of this box to your TV? It just says "Watch TV on your Mac." I don't want to watch TV on my Mac. I want to watch it on my 50" Sony TV.

And besides, its not what I was talking about before. I personally don't want my home theater area cluttered with little boxes and power bricks. I was speaking of something that connected/stacked under the Mini perfectly so that it wasn't noticeable.

SavMan

04-18-2005, 04:25 PM

Am I missing something? Elgato already has this...

http://www.elgato.com/index.php?file=products_eyetv200
Yeah, they have a product... but it's not quite a DVR/HTPC killer yet. I think what Unix_Beard was talking about was something that would work like all other Apple products --- seamlessly. Nothing El Gato makes fits that bill.

I have my doubts as to the hardware capabilities of the mini being able to handle DVR operations, however. Slow, small drives and a system that's optimized to run as a personal computer does not usually make a good dedicated video recorder.

But we can all hope, can't we? TiVo's certainly not gonna help us any more.

tchwojko

04-18-2005, 04:48 PM

Unix_Beard

04-18-2005, 04:55 PM

Yeah, they have a product... but it's not quite a DVR/HTPC killer yet. I think what Unix_Beard was talking about was something that would work like all other Apple products --- seamlessly. Nothing El Gato makes fits that bill.

I have my doubts as to the hardware capabilities of the mini being able to handle DVR operations, however. Slow, small drives and a system that's optimized to run as a personal computer does not usually make a good dedicated video recorder.

But we can all hope, can't we? TiVo's certainly not gonna help us any more.

I think an offloaded mpeg2 encoder would alleviate any concerns on the mini.

And you are right. I want to have something simple enough for my father-in-law to use when he comes over. I'm still not sure if EyeTV has video outputs for a TV. I suppose one could go out the DVI of the Mac, and have your TV be the Mini's monitor but I'd rather not have to futz with window or fullscreen mode, etc. If their software WAS REALLY GOOD then I would entertain the idea because then I could do internet type stuff on the TV.

Fofer

04-18-2005, 04:56 PM

As long as you're discussing EyeTV, you should also keep in mind it's complementary product, EyeHome. (http://www.elgato.com/index.php?file=products_eyehome) (That's what SavMan was referring to.) It lets you watch your EyeTV recorded content on a TV, streamed over your network. Yeah it's cool in concept, but not nearly as polished as TiVo.

Unix_Beard

04-18-2005, 04:57 PM

tchwojko

04-18-2005, 05:05 PM

The UI doesn't have to be perfect, just good enough. Regarding "futzing" with full-screen mode, a little AppleScript goes a long way... :cool:

Dennis Wilkinson

04-18-2005, 05:06 PM

Do you have any experience with EyeTV? I'm looking for more information about it, as I'm considering using it with a Mac Mini, a 250GB LaCie HD d2 (7200rpm, 10ms seek) and an LCD TV, as a second DVR that DOES let me take my recordings on my train commute.

I'm most curious about the UI for scheduling recordings, but any and all information would be helpful.

I've got an EyeTV 200, but I don't use it as a PVR but rather as an MPEG2/MPEG4 encoder for some occasional web site work. It's actually a pretty good "live" encoder when you feed it a clean signal, and as the encoding is handled by the unit you don't need a particularly beefy CPU or drive if all you're doing is recording (watching while recording is another story, although the Mac mini should still be up for that. Mine is hooked up to a 1GHz G4 desktop, and it behaves fine in that regard.)

What little I've done with the PVR features doesn't terribly impress me -- it's essentially VCR style programming with some minor integration with TitanTV for guide data. I've only recorded a handful of shows using the PVR functionality (since that's not really why I bought it,) so there may very well be things I've missed, but it just didn't feel very full-featured or polished. I do use it to move shows from my TiVo to DVD once in a while -- I've got one output from the TiVo forwarded from my living room to the office and an IR path back using some off-the-shelf video distribution equipment, so I can do the "Save to VCR" thing on the TiVo and encode in real-time with the EyeTV, and I get pretty good results.

It may be that there's some 3rd party software that will work with the EyeTV to improve the PVR features, or there may not be, but I haven't gone looking.

For what it's worth, I bought the EyeTV to replace a Miglia AlchemyTV PCI card, which didn't work nearly half as well for the things I needed, as the card doesn't have an encoder on-board and the CPU has to handle all the compression. Not that that would work in a mini in any case, but it's not a product I'd recommend for PVR use, either.

ccooperev

04-18-2005, 05:07 PM

Am I missing something? Elgato already has this...

http://www.elgato.com/index.php?file=products_eyetv200

That thing cost almost as much as a Mac!

Fofer

04-18-2005, 05:10 PM

Biggest problem with EyeTV as a potential TiVo replacement is that it doesn't do IR or serial control. So it can't change the channel on your cable bor or satellite receiver. It has a cable tuner built into it, so that might work for the folks with OTA TV or basic cable that requires no cable box.

How many of us fall into that category, though?

For now I'm sticking with my DirecTiVo (hacked to comply to *my* wishes, thankyouverymuch.)

tchwojko

04-18-2005, 05:34 PM

How many of us fall into that category, though?

Me! I use analog cable. Tried digital cable, but it cost more, had more shows I didn't watch, and took longer to change channels.

It sounds like a little scripting, and it'll do what I want it to do. Thanks!

chessplayer

04-22-2005, 08:21 AM

Has anyone here tried the eyeTV 500 for recording HDTV? I'm wondering whether to get the eyeTV 200 or eyeTV 500.

donsullivan

04-22-2005, 01:00 PM

Has anyone here tried the eyeTV 500 for recording HDTV? I'm wondering whether to get the eyeTV 200 or eyeTV 500.

I've got a 500. I've only tried it on the ATSC side vs cable and for the most part what I did record came out pretty well. It does seem to have a lot of trouble with synch drift when watching in real time. You need to periodically hit the jump to end button to get things resynched. If you're only listening you might not notice it but if you watch it will drive you crazy. I'm running it on a Dual 2GHz G5 with 4GB of RAM so it shouldn't have any trouble dealing with it.

When I've tried to export out to DVD I've had a whole lot of aspec ratio problems and it is not uncommon to end up with something that is cropped and letterboxed inside a 16x9 frame when you dump it out. I'm convinced that is partly a result of how the broadcaster sends the signal, especially when it's not a 16x9 formatted show. It got a little cleaner with the latest release of the software but it's still not something I would consider consistenly reliable just yet.

Justin Thyme

04-22-2005, 01:28 PM

If we had Macs again I don't think my wife would tolerate the geeky approach of using stuff like ADS pyro pro to pipe highest resolution into a Mini. That would be my approach if I didn't want an intermediary box- though really the mini becomes a dedicated intermediary in this case. I'm surprized the other obvious alternative is not being discussed.

I'd probaby do a dual tuner HD unit from DTV and hack it for TivoWeb- and tivoweb doesn't care if a mac or a pc or a linux machine is at the other end of the wire.

That would be $5 per month for 1-3 boxes, plus you have the ability to record HD quality resolutions. That blows away TTG capability and monthly cost, and will be so for the forseeable future. The DTV HD dual tuner 250gb boxes cost $600 to $800 on ebay, so that's a drag.

PTVupgrade will do the hack for people who don't want to get their hands dirty.

tonyf3

04-24-2005, 11:05 AM

DRM is a technology decision NOT a platform decision. You choose your DRM, either in house, OD, or third party, based upon your market requirements. PERIOD! TiVo choose a DRM that excluded a large percentage of their customers. Worse customers that have $$$$ to spend and are willing to spend it for cool technology, are media savvy, and have all the applications and hardware tools, to fully exploit what they're selling. I'm a product manager at a high tech cross-platform company and I have no problem saying this, in my view, was a VERY STUPID decision.

Exactly!
On another note just back from Vaco and...
I was recently in a Best Buy store and happened across the Microsoft Media Center.
After browsing it's literature and it's feature set I thought... There is no f@#!* way
Steve Jobs is going to let Bill Gates even attempt to dominate this space. Apple will have something and it will be better. The year of HD right? Tiger 4/29.

Justin Thyme

04-24-2005, 01:14 PM

...There is no f@#!* way Steve Jobs is going to let Bill Gates even attempt to dominate this space.

I couldn't agree with you more. That is the Steve Jobs I know. And the goon squads are out clamping down security.

I can't believe he won't put out at least an analog of a Lisa in the next two years. At the very least there must be a message that Apple has not conceded the living room to MS.

But Gates has done more than make an "attempt". He has a practical OS that scales down small enough for phones, and there are more than a few large vendors using his stuff on personal devices. It is hard to imagine how Apple will be able make offerings in each of those personal device spaces. The strategic position is the OS that controls access to the mondo storage. There will be only one of those boxes for each home, and there is still an even chance that Tiger with a suitable UI could carve out a significantly larger percentage of the market than Apple has achieved with PCs. Apple has an opportunity, but the I don't have a clear sense of what Jobs' view of the correct timing. The price point and the UI of the MC is laughable now, but that will evolve. Does Jobs let the market fiddle around as with MP3 and come in later with a mature end to end solution like IPod? Or is it time to put a Lisa like stake in the ground for videophiles so that everyone knows that there will be more than MS protocol devices to talk to.

I haven't a clue. But we have ringside seats. This battle of the seasonned titans should be very interesting.

tonyf3

04-25-2005, 12:24 AM

I had missed the CFO comment thing. I was away on vacation. He's now saying he was misquoted of something. Nice spin on that one. If true they should be sued. (See other posts on suing tivo). If they're not going to offer the same level of service to Mac & Windows users, than the Mac users should get a discounted rate at the very least.

chessplayer

04-25-2005, 07:57 AM

I had missed the CFO comment thing. I was away on vacation. He's now saying he was misquoted of something. Nice spin on that one. It's ludicrous.

First of all, he was clearly heard by both a poster here (Rangers4me) and the reporter, as saying it was very doubtful that there would be Mac support any time soon. To me, that seems like it would be hard to mis-understand.

Second, he says he was misquoted, but refuses to explain what he really said! Isn't it ridiculous to say one was misquoted without stating what one actually said?

Seriously, does anyone really believe that a satisfactory response to the article is to just say he was misquoted without explaining what he actually said? :confused:

Unix_Beard

04-25-2005, 09:34 AM

It means Mac users should expect nothing.

Fofer

04-25-2005, 10:04 AM

It's ludicrous.

First of all, he was clearly heard by both a poster here (Rangers4me) and the reporter, as saying it was very doubtful that there would be Mac support any time soon. To me, that seems like it would be hard to mis-understand.

Not only that, Rangers4me asked the question. So I'm confident he was listening closely for the answer.

ZeoTiVo

04-25-2005, 11:35 AM

It's ludicrous.

First of all, he was clearly heard by both a poster here (Rangers4me) and the reporter, as saying it was very doubtful that there would be Mac support any time soon. To me, that seems like it would be hard to mis-understand.

Second, he says he was misquoted, but refuses to explain what he really said! Isn't it ridiculous to say one was misquoted without stating what one actually said?

Seriously, does anyone really believe that a satisfactory response to the article is to just say he was misquoted without explaining what he actually said? :confused:

TiVoPony never said the CFO said he was misquoted, it was something along the lines of his statements were not expressed in the interview with complete accuracy. So he clearly does not deny the quotes as reported but implies there was more to his statements and meaning then were expressed by the article.

So most likely he made some off the cuff, irratible comments then got surprised when they were repeated in the press. hehe.
Now TiVo is back to the "we have nothing to say other than we are working on it" and will not define what "working on it" is all about. That sucks for TiVo users who want a clearer picture of where TTG for Mac is.
But the only way for teh CFO to clarify his comments would be to release details of what TiVo has in store for Mac platform. It is probably all drawing board design and/or negotiations or else they could announce a timeline at least. TiVo is between the rock and hard place of needing to now clarify what the CFO meant and the business practice of not revealing your strategic plans until you know you can execute them ahead of the info being useful to competitors. The whole thing just keeps sucking

davezatz

04-25-2005, 11:50 AM

The whole thing just keeps sucking
And let's not forget Tivo Desktop 1.9.1 photos and music doesn't work under Mac OSX Tiger. ;)

chessplayer

04-25-2005, 12:43 PM

TiVoPony never said the CFO said he was misquoted, it was something along the lines of his statements were not expressed in the interview with complete accuracy. So he clearly does not deny the quotes as reported but implies there was more to his statements and meaning then were expressed by the article.
I don't want to spend too much time arguing the semantics of what it means to be misquoted, but TiVoPony said:

His comments were not represented accurately at all in that article. That is a clear denial of the quotes as reported. There's a huge difference between saying his views were not expressed with complete accuracy and saying, as TiVoPony did, that the comments were not at all accurate. And I don't buy it, sounds like dishonest backpedaling to me.

Unix_Beard

04-25-2005, 01:28 PM

So the Mac market is not big enough to invest dollars into but its too large to piss off and tell the truth?

Tivo, this one is for you as we enter MONTH 4. :rolleyes:

ZeoTiVo

04-25-2005, 01:52 PM

I don't want to spend too much time arguing the semantics of what it means to be misquoted, but TiVoPony said:
His comments were not represented accurately at all in that article.
That is a clear denial of the quotes as reported. There's a huge difference between saying his views were not expressed with complete accuracy and saying, as TiVoPony did, that the comments were not at all accurate. And I don't buy it, sounds like dishonest backpedaling to me.

thanks for getting the exact wording. I still say it is specifically worded to mean the words in quotes were what he said but that somehow the complete meaning of what he was saying was not conveyed or possibly other clarifying statements were not recorded , etc.. That has happened to all of us, not in the public press maybe but we have been partially quoted and our full meaning lost.

anyhow denial of actual words said or not, the response still left nothing clarified and only the phrase "working on it" as the official word. TiVo is choosing to leave it as if the quotes never happened in the vein of the less said the better.

dropd

04-25-2005, 02:54 PM

thanks for getting the exact wording. I still say it is specifically worded to mean the words in quotes were what he said but that somehow the complete meaning of what he was saying was not conveyed or possibly other clarifying statements were not recorded , etc.. That has happened to all of us, not in the public press maybe but we have been partially quoted and our full meaning lost.

anyhow denial of actual words said or not, the response still left nothing clarified and only the phrase "working on it" as the official word. TiVo is choosing to leave it as if the quotes never happened in the vein of the less said the better.

Yup.

The important and slightly weird part is that TiVoPony claims that the comments weren't represented properly, but then completely fails to represent the comments properly. Leaving the reader to draw the conclusion that the comments should and do stand on their own merits.

Fofer

04-25-2005, 05:28 PM

And let's not forget Tivo Desktop 1.9.1 photos and music doesn't work under Mac OSX Tiger. ;)

Is this confirmed, or just assumed? I'd hesitate to upgrade my media server if that's a sticking point.

I'd also be anxious to see if TiVo issues an update quickly or not.

rog

04-25-2005, 06:40 PM

And let's not forget Tivo Desktop 1.9.1 photos and music doesn't work under Mac OSX Tiger.

Is this confirmed, or just assumed? I'd hesitate to upgrade my media server if that's a sticking point.

I'd also be anxious to see if TiVo issues an update quickly or not.

Start here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=2798185&&#post2798185

and read down.

edit: Fofer, I just noticed you were in on the linked thread. I guess you already knew about that poster. That is the only account I've read/heard so far of TiVo Desktop being broken under Tiger. I have no reason not to believe those reports though. I guess we'll find out on Friday! <fingers crossed>

Patarker

04-25-2005, 10:00 PM

And meanwhile, as a Mac owner, I got nothing out of the latest software update but screwed up channel changing and a bad taste in my mouth. Some reasonable acknowledgement of these issues is indeed long overdue. Whatever led to the problems with TTG for Mac and their lack of forthrightness about is water under the bridge, as far as I am concerned, as long as they come clean and make us aware of where things stand in what direction (and at what speed) things are moving. Hey, it's the Information Age! Make with the Information!

Unix_Beard

04-25-2005, 10:02 PM

Is this confirmed, or just assumed? I'd hesitate to upgrade my media server if that's a sticking point.

I'd also be anxious to see if TiVo issues an update quickly or not.

How about you try it out and get back to us. ;)

Fofer

04-25-2005, 10:14 PM

Start here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=2798185&&#post2798185

and read down.

edit: Fofer, I just noticed you were in on the linked thread. I guess you already knew about that poster. That is the only account I've read/heard so far of TiVo Desktop being broken under Tiger. I have no reason not to believe those reports though. I guess we'll find out on Friday! <fingers crossed>

Heh. I added my silly post after you linked me into that thread.

When I get home tonight perhaps I'll test it out myself... I can install TiVo Desktop 1.9.1 on the Tiger PowerBook and see if it works. Although I'm pretty sure it won't work. I'll keep y'all posted.

Fofer

04-25-2005, 10:16 PM

rog

04-25-2005, 11:17 PM

Something that looks like the minimate (http://www.micronet.com/General/minimate.asp), maybe?

looks cool... but where's the remote? :)

briguymaine

04-25-2005, 11:34 PM

Fofer, I just noticed you were in on the linked thread. I guess you already knew about that poster. That is the only account I've read/heard so far of TiVo Desktop being broken under Tiger. I have no reason not to believe those reports though. I guess we'll find out on Friday! <fingers crossed>

Sad to say that it is true, at least for me. I installed Tiger this weekend and Tivo Desktop 1.9.1 crashes if you try to change a setting in the pref panel and does not show up under Tivo's Music & Photos. bummer...

tonyf3

04-28-2005, 10:00 AM

I got yet another TiVo system update. 7.1b. on 4/26 I'm not sure what this one is about. Tiger is coming out 4/29. It would be nice if it addressed our issues, but it probably doesn't.

gonzotek

04-28-2005, 10:21 AM

7.1b addresses pixelation for cable box users(unless your TiVo is a 540 or 590 model), as well as some other minor (and undisclosed) problems:Hi everyone,

I wanted to give you all a heads up - there is a new version of software about to go out for Series2 standalone systems. Everyone with 7.1a will be getting it in the coming weeks.

The new code addresses a few minor bugs. For many of our Series2 products this will also take care of the pixilation issues some of you have reported when changing channels with a digital cable box. The only exceptions at this time are TiVo boxes starting with 540 and 590 – for those boxes a separate, additional software release to address this issue is being worked on.

Thanks again to those that helped identify and isolate this issue for us -- it's appreciated.

BillNew Software Update Rollout Starting (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=236225)

Fofer

04-28-2005, 10:21 AM

How about you try it out and get back to us. ;)

I finally gave it a shot. For starters, the TiVo Desktop 1.9.1 installer fails when trying to install on Tiger. (The preference pane shows up though. And as previous posters have said, it doesn't actually work.)

Sigh.

Fingers crossed it gets fixed ASAP.

rog

04-28-2005, 02:27 PM

I finally gave it a shot. For starters, the TiVo Desktop 1.9.1 installer fails when trying to install on Tiger. (The preference pane shows up though. And as previous posters have said, it doesn't actually work.)

Sigh.

Fingers crossed it gets fixed ASAP.

Let's hope it gets fixed tomorrow. There are no good excuses here!

How is everything else with Tiger? Did it break any other apps? I'll be trying it out tomorrow. My FedEx tracking number from Apple tells me the shipment is right on time...

sad05

04-28-2005, 04:23 PM

ZeoTiVo

04-28-2005, 04:42 PM

The latest emailed Tivo newsletter is yet another slap in the face for Mac users. Not ONE mention of Mac support in the whole 'what's this Tivo-to-Go thing I've been hearing about' section.

It mentions Windows boxes only. No, Mac support is being worked on ... nothing.

Grrrrrrrrrr

I read that and had the reaction that this might be the first time Windows was specifically pointed out as the OS for TiVoToGo. certainly no promises for TTG on Mac in there.

Unix_Beard

04-28-2005, 04:53 PM

The latest emailed Tivo newsletter is yet another slap in the face for Mac users. Not ONE mention of Mac support in the whole 'what's this Tivo-to-Go thing I've been hearing about' section.

It mentions Windows boxes only. No, Mac support is being worked on ... nothing.

Grrrrrrrrrr

But it DOES note in the fine print that TivoToGo will be available "this summer" for Tivo DVD burner units.

C'mon Tivo. Can't you give US a ballpark too?

e30mpower

04-29-2005, 04:58 AM

I am M A D.

This TiVo **** is getting cancelled TOMORROW. If anyone wants four (yes, I've invested A LOT of money in TiVos over the years, and I'm still paying the monthly service fee for all) boxes then let me know.

It was a BITCHSLAP to be LIED to about ToGo being "available soon," and now even worse that I can't even use the most basic HMO features, music and photos, in Tiger.

I used to praise TiVo for being the most innovative company in a field it created, I was peeved when ToGo came out over a quarter of a year ago with no version for Mac, but am now damn IRATE that there is no Tiger compatibility with Desktop. How long have there been Developer copies of Tiger available? Probably on the borders of at least a year--long enough, especially with no major changes to the kernel, for TiVo to work the Desktop into it. This is nothing but laziness and half-ass customer support, and I have no sympathy for either. Furthermore, I certainly would not want to encourage this kind of lazy attitude by continuing to finance it with my monthly fees.

TiVo, screw yourselves. You are a fledgling company--that as you are now, barely holding your corporate head above water, and will be a distant memory in a few years, and you have brought it on yourself. I for one take comfort in that prediction.

cwoody222

04-29-2005, 10:26 AM

Lon

04-29-2005, 11:29 AM

Interesting note: Quicktime 7.0 showed up in Software Update this morning (free for Panther and Tiger).

timg

04-29-2005, 02:17 PM

Also interesting to note: Tiger and Quicktime 7 are now released and we still don't have a schedule for TivoToGo for Mac.

Guess Tivo wasn't really waiting for 10.4 or quicktime 7 ... in fact, the only thing 10.4 did was break Tivo Desktop!

DannyBoy25

04-29-2005, 03:05 PM

ZeoTiVo

04-29-2005, 03:07 PM

even worse that I can't even use the most basic HMO features, music and photos, in Tiger.

so when are you leaving DirectTV for not enabling HMO on the DirectTiVos ?

sayonaraML

04-29-2005, 04:05 PM

Now we know why TivoPony hasn't responded to the numerous requests for clarification on the CFOs comments. No misquotes or commets taken out of context, just a company that doesn't think they need to treat their customers with any respect.
One more reason to not call the CSRs...

SavMan

04-29-2005, 04:45 PM

so when are you leaving DirectTV for not enabling HMO on the DirectTiVos ?
Oh, don't be facile. You know that there is a difference between never having the service in the first place, as with the DTiVos, and having that service discontinued because you upgraded to a new version of system software that has been seeded to developers for over a year. This is laziness on TiVo's part, plain and simple.

The proof just keeps pouring in: TiVo no longer cares about their customers, just their bottom line. It seems that the executives in Alviso think they can stop a sinking ship by selling off portions of the hull...

gonzotek

04-29-2005, 05:50 PM

I don't know about 'laziness'. 'Prioritizing' maybe. I won't argue against the 'improving the bottom line' argument, as it's a blatant fact that their current short-term goal is profitability. There's also this:Apple has promised developers that there will be 'no API disruption for the foreseeable future.' Starting with Tiger, Apple will add new APIs to Mac OS X, but will not change any existing APIs in an incompatible way. This has not been the case during the first four years of Mac OS X's development, and Mac developers have often had to scramble to keep their applications running after each new major release," Siracusa writes.http://arstechnica.com/reviews/os/macosx-10.4.ars

Perhaps Tivo, being aware of the changing APIs, opted to hold their development until the update was available. Perhaps it has nothing to do with that, I am only speculating. But today is the first day that Tiger is generally available and the promise to developers that the APIs won't change is significant to companies like TiVo, whose development resources are obviously stretched pretty thin. If they(any company) are developing or considering developing Mac software, they now have a promise from Apple that a program they write today, on today's 10.4 kernel will still run on any updated versions, for the foreseeable future at least. That's a very important thing to consider, if you're a CFO looking to maximize your ROI. It might even be enough to change someone's decision. Or not. I'm still highly interested in the Mac platform, and TiVo won't really influence my decision to purchase a Mac in the near future one way or the other (my financial ability to do so is a much greater factor), but if they do fully support Mac OS as completely as they do Windows, I'd be all the more inclined to purchase more TiVo-branded products. I feel for all the TiVo users who are already solely invested in the Mac platform. As a stopgap workaround, I'd recommended JavaHMO as a temporary replacement for TiVoDesktop. You still won't have TTG, but at least you can browse your images and play your music(and more).

davezatz

04-29-2005, 07:00 PM

(my financial ability to do so is a much greater factor)
Much of the stuff I use requires Windows, but it's nice to have another (neat, fun) OS in the house to goof off with.

The Apple store usually has some pretty good deals on refurb eMacs... similar specs as a MacMini but with a builtin 17" CRT. I popped in a wireless card and hooked up a wireless/keyboard mouse so the thing has a pretty small footprint with only a power cable.

When the Tivo Desktop doesn't lose connectivity, it does a nice job of supporting iTunes playlists. Though I mainly use the Mac for the iLife apps, and Fiance uses it to surf the web. I haven't found a compelling reason to upgrade from 10.3 to 10.4 - the new features are overshadowed by the expense and additional system overhead in my book.

TheSlyBear

04-29-2005, 07:22 PM

so when are you leaving DirectTV for not enabling HMO on the DirectTiVos ?

Sorry Zeo, not even close. I paid good money for HMO -- and wasn't one of those who cried foul when they started giving it away -- and I expect to be able to use what I paid for.

sad05

04-29-2005, 07:34 PM

TTG for Macs are NOT a priority! Higher on the list is a HDTivo and a TiVo with a dual Tivo. Also, she mentioned that TiVo is more interested in working with other companies, rather than Mac. She said that she COULD NOT FORSEE TTG FOR MAC WITHING THE NEXT COUPLE OF YEARS! -Danny!

Does anyone know how the other DVR company, ReplayTV, is with Macs? Do they have anything like TTG? Am I stuck porting everything through a digital camcorder until I wise up and cancel Tivo?

davezatz

04-29-2005, 07:54 PM

Does anyone know how the other DVR company, ReplayTV, is with Macs? Do they have anything like TTG? Am I stuck porting everything through a digital camcorder until I wise up and cancel Tivo?

ReplayTV has no DRM and a third-party app (FREE) called DVArchive lets you extract video at will. It also let's you remotely control your DVR and move video in both directions. I haven't used it in a year or so, but it's better than TTG anyway you slice it. Oh and it's a Java app which works on multiple platforms.

Tivo is still a better for traditional/typical DVR functions, but if transferring video is your priority there are better options which don't require hacking such as the ReplayTV or Windows MCE.

dropd

04-29-2005, 08:51 PM

I feel for all the TiVo users who are already solely invested in the Mac platform. As a stopgap workaround, I'd recommended JavaHMO as a temporary replacement for TiVoDesktop. You still won't have TTG, but at least you can browse your images and play your music(and more).

"stopgap" is right -- JavaHMO doesn't play with the iTunes and iPhoto libraries directly, which severely dilutes the TiVO HMO experience for us mac users...

tonyf3

05-01-2005, 12:05 AM

Here's an interesting note:

When I placed an order for a few of those 140 hour TiVo's, I asked my CSR, yes, just a CSR, about TTG for Macs and she told me that she had just gotten out of a meeting and learned that TTG for Macs are NOT a priority! Higher on the list is a HDTivo and a TiVo with a dual Tivo. Also, she mentioned that TiVo is more interested in working with other companies, rather than Mac. She said that she COULD NOT FORSEE TTG FOR MAC WITHING THE NEXT COUPLE OF YEARS! Why am I not surprised?

After this, and the previous comments from people at TiVo, I have ZERO faith that TiVo is working on anything for Mac users, even though they try and pacify us once in a while on this board. If they want us to believe that they are working on something, then give us a braod, vague timeline, at best.

Sad.

-Danny!

Wow! Let me rewind to the first post in this thread. "UNBELIEVABLE!"
How about this. Out of all the feature sets listed for TiVo users, lets put a % worth of the TiVo togo feature that our Windows brethren are enjoying right now. Then in- mass we demand a discount of that % on the monthly fee until Mac TTG is rolled out.
A rebate back to Jan. might be in order as well. Yeah, maybe petty but it will make me feel better, and I won't be paying for touted features I don't receive.

PS. They can stuff their almost useless Newsletter that completely ignores Mac users issues.

tonyf3

05-01-2005, 12:10 AM

Oh, and look at the time. We just began month FIVE! that they're working hard on this BS.

Bigg

05-01-2005, 03:37 PM

Just use a PC, decrypt and then transfer over the network. Works great for me, you can even transcode to DiVX or MPEG4 if you have limited space. VPC apparently works, but real slow.

SavMan

05-01-2005, 04:38 PM

Just use a PC, decrypt and then transfer over the network. Works great for me, you can even transcode to DiVX or MPEG4 if you have limited space. VPC apparently works, but real slow.
Yes, we shall all buy another computer, just so we can use the feature we've been paying for the last five months. :rolleyes:

audioscience

05-01-2005, 05:40 PM

Yes, we shall all buy another computer, just so we can use the feature we've been paying for the last five months. :rolleyes:

You're paying more for TivoToGo? And this whole time I haven't paid a dime more than when I signed up last year. I must be getting a hell of a deal. They must charge Mac users extra so they don't get the support they demand. :rolleyes:

SavMan

05-01-2005, 05:53 PM

You're paying more for TivoToGo? And this whole time I haven't paid a dime more than when I signed up last year. I must be getting a hell of a deal. They must charge Mac users extra so they don't get the support they demand. :rolleyes:
Oh look, one of the naysayers has returned! I don't suppose you'll be the first to admit you were wrong, though.

I'll only explain this to you once more. TANSTAAFL. We don't pay for the "cost" of the guide info, that costs TiVo nearly nothing. We pay for the feature set and because TiVo will break your box if you don't. I pay 12.95 + 6.95/month and don't get T2G, you pay the same (one way or another) and get T2G. I'm paying for the exact same service, but I don't get the same service... not because TiVo was fair and told us that ahead of time, but because TiVo has been and is lying to us and have told us to wait for a program they have no intention of bringing out anyways. I pay for T2G but I don't receive it, there's no way around it.

Now go back under your bridge, troll. No one here cares what you have to say.

UTA_MAVERICK

05-01-2005, 06:36 PM

While we don't have support direct from TiVo for a working TiVo Desktop program, there is an alternative JavaHMO (with a ton of other options and plug-in options).

It's fixed my problems with visiability of the Series 2 boxes and streaming audio off the net, weather forecasts, movie times, etc. :)

I've transfered some shows but have not been able to view them on the Macintosh, only on the PC. Here is what I have tried so far:

QuickTime Pro 6.5.2
Video Lan Client 0.8.2
Windows Media Player 9.0.0
Real Player 10.0.0
Real One Player 9.0.0

No success so far. Although VLC tried to view the file I get garbage on the screen when I open what was tranfered with JavaHMO since there is no Tivo2Go on Macintosh yet.

What player should I use? :confused:

Does the record level make a difference? Is my problem a compression issue that these players just can't handle? I tried a PC laptop and had no problems with viewing with the Windows Media Player in XP.

Lon

05-01-2005, 08:30 PM

What player should I use? :confused:

Does the record level make a difference? Is my problem a compression issue that these players just can't handle? I tried a PC laptop and had no problems with viewing with the Windows Media Player in XP.
It is not a player issue (or recording levels for that matter). Nor a compression issue. It is an encryption/decryption issue with the only workable solution on a Windows (2000 or XP) platform. I can truly say I know how frustrated you feel.

We await either a TiVo provided solution for Mac OS or a third party (DVD-Jon, hear our plea!) to provide a codec to unlock the TiVo file data.

:(

Turtleboy

05-01-2005, 08:56 PM

Oh look, one of the naysayers has returned! I don't suppose you'll be the first to admit you were wrong, though.

I'll only explain this to you once more. TANSTAAFL. We don't pay for the "cost" of the guide info, that costs TiVo nearly nothing. We pay for the feature set and because TiVo will break your box if you don't. I pay 12.95 + 6.95/month and don't get T2G, you pay the same (one way or another) and get T2G. I'm paying for the exact same service, but I don't get the same service... not because TiVo was fair and told us that ahead of time, but because TiVo has been and is lying to us and have told us to wait for a program they have no intention of bringing out anyways. I pay for T2G but I don't receive it, there's no way around it.

Now go back under your bridge, troll. No one here cares what you have to say.

What about Series 1 owners still paying a monthly fee?

Turtleboy

05-01-2005, 08:59 PM

BTW, I posting this message on my Powerbook G4 with Tiger, but this notion that "mac users are paying the same amount as XP users and therefore aren't getting the same product" is the most asinine, ridiculous, think I've ever heard.

Are Windows ME users getting less? Are Linux users? Are people without computers? Are (as i said in my post right beforehand) Series I users?

Your Tivo -- my tivo, fellow mac users, does exactly what it did beforehand, and making stupid arguments doesn't move you any closer to getting T2g for the Mac.

davezatz

05-01-2005, 09:16 PM

is the most asinine, ridiculous, think I've ever heard.

making stupid arguments doesn't move you any closer to getting T2g for the Mac.
What makes your perspective the right one? You may not buy the reasoning/logic in those arguments, but the fact is there are many disgruntled people who feel as if Tivo just made them second class citizens. And they are entitled to their perspective regardless of how you slam them.

Until January both Mac and PC users were provided basically the same functionality, that parity is gone. Personally, other than being bummed I naively upgraded iLife, I could care less - TTG is too slow and hobbled by protections which are only going to get worse. Converting files will be a thing of the past and networks such as HBO will start flagging shows to prevent copying anyhow. Mac HMO is already being surpassed by hobbyists developing for HME - perhaps that is why Tivo feels they can get by with less Mac staff/development.

my tivo, fellow mac users, does exactly what it did beforehand
Well since you're running Tiger, your Tivo does NOT do the same things it did. HMO is gone... at least for the moment.

ZeoTiVo

05-01-2005, 09:28 PM

I acree davezatz but if Tivo were to start charging a different monthly subscription based on use of Mac as main OS , then theyhave to start some sliding scale for all kinds of different users, does not seem like a very workable idea.

and the only loss is HMO on a new OS - not the OS used at the time. If the next windows OS had desktop breaking then people would say do not go to the new OS yet.

the frustration though TurtleBoy is that TiVo does not seem to be putting in resources to keep the Mac side going as strong as the window side. Putting out Tiger support for current mac TiVo desktop supoort would be a very good sign of faith from TiVo

Turtleboy

05-01-2005, 09:40 PM

SavMan

05-01-2005, 10:43 PM

Maybe b/c I'm on lifetime, and don't understand the monthly people.

I paid for my tivo a couple years ago, and haven't thought about it since.

So this notion that "I'm paying and not getting" just doesn't hit me.
Apparently not. Series 1 users were not lied to about the services they were not going to get. Either way, YES, Series 1 users are paying for something they don't get. I don't know what's so hard about this...

1. We pay the same as everyone else.
2. Some users are able to use a feature we can't, one that was marketed for years.
3. There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch.

:.

We are paying for this feature we can't use.

... why are we the stupid people, but you are the all-knowing one who understands REALLY how paying for features not available to us is not a bum deal?

CrispyCritter

05-01-2005, 11:47 PM

Apparently not. Series 1 users were not lied to about the services they were not going to get. Either way, YES, Series 1 users are paying for something they don't get. I don't know what's so hard about this...

1. We pay the same as everyone else.
2. Some users are able to use a feature we can't, one that was marketed for years.
3. There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch.

:.

We are paying for this feature we can't use.
If you're going to make arguments that don't make any sense, you're going to get called on it. This is one of them. It doesn't mean that people don't support the idea that TiVo should make TTG available on the Mac; just some reasons are better than others. The idea you've been paying for it for the past 5 months is ridiculous.

tchwojko

05-02-2005, 11:04 AM

For the moment, I'll say for the sake of argument:
1. Tivo did not lie about the feature set on the Mac. (I'm trying to avoid using words that invoke emotions that may be irrelevant to the argument.)
2. The monthly fee for Tivo is acceptable with or without the Home Media Options. (I'm indifferent, since I paid for the lifetime service, but for the purposes of my argument, it just adds noise.)

I have a Tivo. I have a Mac. I don't have a Wintel box. I have a DVD system.
I want to easily record and play TV shows.
I want to archive certain shows (Good Eats!), and home movies, ideally with Apple's software.
I want to be able to play TV shows that I've recorded on any of my TVs, or any of my computers.
I want to be able to get some information and/or media from my computer and show them on my TV.
I do NOT want to twiddle codecs, media players, or reboot my computer 30 times with different options to find one that works.
I do NOT want to have to administer a home network any more than I already do.
I do NOT want to sacrifice usability for features I won't use.

I can't go back and change my mind about the money I've spent in the past, but I can choose where my future dollars go. They're going to go to companies that provide solutions that meet my needs.

Tivo is not meeting my needs, and does not show any signs of doing so, therefore Tivo will not get my future dollars. If Tivo changes its solutions, then I may reconsider.

Anyone who wants to spend their time ranting at Tivo, or defending Tivo, feel free. You may be completely correct in your reasoning.

hargreae

05-02-2005, 01:49 PM

Your Tivo -- my tivo, fellow mac users, does exactly what it did beforehand.

Actually, mine doesn't anymore. Since the update to system version 7, the menus are slower to open, the button responsiveness is worsened, and there's audio dropouts and video freezing/pixellation when changing channels. Also, the guide has less and less information, thus shows that are repeats and shouldn't get recorded are being recorded as if they are new.

To make matters worse, I paid extra $$ for the Home Media Option and now TiVo doesn't even support Music and Photos on the new Mac OS X 10.4.

At the time I bought HMO, TiVo said they were working hard on enabling playback of AAC files, which said to me that it was going to happen. Years later, they basically say they stopped trying and aren't planning on working on it anymore.

So when they say they're working hard on TiVoToGo for Mac, this is how we all know it's a big lie. Why don't they want to be honest about how they aren't going to support Mac users? Because they want us to keep paying them $13 a month. Duh!

If only I could actually say, "Well, our TiVo still does exactly what it used to do." Unfortunately, it doesn't. It's much worse than it was 9 months ago.

ZeoTiVo

05-02-2005, 02:02 PM

At the time I bought HMO, TiVo said they were working hard on enabling playback of AAC files, which said to me that it was going to happen. Years later, they basically say they stopped trying and aren't planning on working on it anymore.

why does no one get that "working hard on something" does not always mean you a have a coder(s) working hard at knocking out code.

AAC support is a great example of this. "working Hard" there most likely meant TiVo was tyring ahrd to get Apple to license the fairplay tech so TiVo could use it to play encrypted AAC files. TiVo stated they wanted a play any AAC file (DRMed or not) solution. sometimes working hard happens in the negotiation stage. TiVo can not tell us Apple's side of the story as then they could never negotiate in good faith after that. Apple has a profound history of never talking about anything until after negotiations as well.

none of us know what the working on it is about and none of us know where the roadblocks are. Thos Dennis Wilkinson seemed to have a good iadea why Desktop did not work on Tiger in the Tiger thread.

you may all go back to ranting about your speculations as if they are hard facts again. Have fun with that..

PS - it still sucks that there is no TTG or AAC for Mac. This post is not meant to imply otherwise.

dropd

05-02-2005, 02:05 PM

-snip-

AAC support is a great example of this. "working Hard" there most likely meant TiVo was tyring ahrd to get Apple to license the fairplay tech so TiVo could use it to play encrypted AAC files. TiVo stated they wanted a play any AAC file (DRMed or not) solution. sometimes working hard happens in the negotiation stage. TiVo can not tell us Apple's side of the story as then they could never negotiate in good faith after that.

-snip-

you may all go back to ranting about your speculations as if they are hard facts again. Have fun with that..

this is (unintentionally) pretty funny...

bedelman

05-02-2005, 02:11 PM

Actually, there is unofficial support for non-protected AAC files in TiVo Desktop 1.9.x

Installing LAME allows the non-protected AAC files to be streamed over to the DVR as MP3.

ZeoTiVo

05-02-2005, 02:20 PM

this is (unintentionally) pretty funny...

except that I was not ranting and and just pointing out the obvious about Apple never licensing fairplay to anyone and stopping anyone who tried to make their own way to play Fairplayed AAC files. :rolleyes:

and as Bob pointed out, TiVo did still slip in unofficial supoport for open AAC files since customers wanted it and it was a way for TiVo to add it without having to field umpteen calls on why fairplayed AAC files did not work from people who do not realize the distinction

my speculation stays as speculation "most likely" definitely shows it is my opinion and not a fact.

hammer32

05-02-2005, 04:52 PM

We decided to drop our Series 2 TiVo sub today (TTG and HMO were on our minds). We'll sign it up again when TTG support arrives. I've been a TiVo supporter for a while and still reccomend it to friends, especially in comparison with what else is out there, but I only kept this unit for TTG when we on the road or deployed. For now we'll stick with our DirecTiVo's and hope we have a need for TiVo after MPEG4 comes to our town.

rog

05-02-2005, 09:28 PM

1. We pay the same as everyone else.
2. Some users are able to use a feature we can't, one that was marketed for years.
3. There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch.

:.

We are paying for this feature we can't use.

This is a rediculous argument! It is logically flawed.

As others have said, no one is paying extra for the TTG feature. It was added without an increase to the cost of service fees. It's an added value/benefit. Unfortunately it is not a benefit available to everyone (yet), but this does not mean you are paying more for it!

Furthermore, think about the other platforms that may be in use in people's homes (Linux, Mac OS 9, Windows 98/ME), and then think again about your argument...

Seriously, I think some people just come in here so they can be dicks.

Hmm... you've been just downright gracious and friendly to everyone here! You are always extra nice to people who may not share your views too, aren't you? ;)

-----

I'm typing this on my iBook. I agree that TiVo's handling of the Mac-support issue has been a fiasco, at best. I'm all for pushing for an update for Tiger too... but stop with the flimsy arguments and name calling. People can disagree with you without being labeled trolls, dicks, or my favorite cognomen -- "smug". ;)

Bigg

05-03-2005, 09:44 AM

Yes, we shall all buy another computer, just so we can use the feature we've been paying for the last five months. :rolleyes:
You don't have a PC? OK, not sure how you could survive without one, there is some stuff that just doesn't work with MAC. As much as I love my mac, I would never be without a PC or VPC.

ZeoTiVo

05-03-2005, 09:55 AM

You don't have a PC? OK, not sure how you could survive without one, there is some stuff that just doesn't work with MAC. As much as I love my mac, I would never be without a PC or VPC.

I'm thinking SavMan would get a physical rash if he touched anything tainted by Microsoft :rolleyes:

Unix_Beard

05-03-2005, 11:11 AM

You don't have a PC? OK, not sure how you could survive without one, there is some stuff that just doesn't work with MAC. As much as I love my mac, I would never be without a PC or VPC.

I support thousands of users via file/web services and administer an RDBMS. I've been working in the field for the last 15 years. All of our services are run either on MacOS X or Linux. (Even the Linux servers run on Macs.)

I have 5 machines at home. My house is wired in every room. I have no Windows machines nor did I ever find a need to own one.

I can't use TTG or play PC games. Only one of which I'm bothered by since I like my Gamecube. ;)

I could work on Windows but I prefer MacOS X. And by the way, there are lots of things you can't do on a PC as well. Install windows and then try rsyncing the machine through an ssh tunnel without downloading anything.

AnteL0pe

05-03-2005, 11:53 AM

This is a rediculous argument! It is logically flawed.

As others have said, no one is paying extra for the TTG feature. It was added without an increase to the cost of service fees. It's an added value/benefit. Unfortunately it is not a benefit available to everyone (yet), but this does not mean you are paying more for it!
You have to be kidding, you dont see a problem with everyone paying the same amount, but only a portion of them getting better services?! Yes, us Mac users are paying for services we arent getting.

You don't have a PC? OK, not sure how you could survive without one, there is some stuff that just doesn't work with MAC. As much as I love my mac, I would never be without a PC or VPC.
I really cant think of a situation where I ever need to use windows....

gonzotek

05-03-2005, 11:57 AM

You have to be kidding, you dont see a problem with everyone paying the same amount, but only a portion of them getting better services?! Yes, us Mac users are paying for services we arent getting.But so are Windows 98 users, Windows ME users, Linux users, Mac OS 9 and below users, and so on. Mac users aren't being excluded because they're Mac users, they're being excluded because they're NOT windows 2k or xp users; this is the same situation as users of any system that isn't 2000 or xp, right now.

AnteL0pe

05-03-2005, 12:01 PM

ZeoTiVo

05-03-2005, 03:39 PM

And there is a slight difference here, we were promised support, we have been told that they are working on a solution. Neither of those appear to be true.

again, when were you promised support ? that would imply TiVo stated a timeline when TTG for Mac would happen. TiVo has done no such thing as promise support. You all make such a big fuss over the precise legalese TiVo uses that says nothing and gives you no hope and then turn around and make it fit the argument that you were promised something. You can not have it both ways.

It sure looks to me like TiVo is having trouble getting TTG working on the Mac platform in a manner consistent with their business plans. They clearly are concerend with continued efforts to keep enforcing a rights managed solution on windows to keep content providers from suing them or getting the FCC to rule against them. Giving the replayTV fall and that TiVo is batting .500 at the FCC these seem like real fears they must factor in. The Mac platform is no different. Why can you not just accept that and deal with the conclusion that even TiVo has no idea if they can deliver TTG for Mac but are working on it anyway because they would much prefer to release a Mac version?

cwoody222

05-03-2005, 03:51 PM

Why can you not just accept that and deal with the conclusion that even TiVo has no idea if they can deliver TTG for Mac ...

'Cause TiVo's never said that. I can only base thoughts on what the company tells me. ;)

What TiVo has said is that they're "working on it".

Unless TiVo expects their customers to assume they'll fail at something they're working on, TiVo is implying support is forthcoming.

Unix_Beard

05-03-2005, 04:02 PM

But so are Windows 98 users, Windows ME users, Linux users, Mac OS 9 and below users, and so on. Mac users aren't being excluded because they're Mac users, they're being excluded because they're NOT windows 2k or xp users; this is the same situation as users of any system that isn't 2000 or xp, right now.

The difference is that Tivo Desktop was always available for MacOS X users. It never was available for MacOS 9 users. And the 98/ME argument doesn't really hold water since they are both archaic OS's. OS X is a modern OS as is XP/2000. Linux, as I've repeated over and over, is NOT a viable desktop OS. If it were, we'd see Photoshop, Dreamweaver, Word, Excel, Filemaker, etc for Linux. MacOS X is a viable commercial OS proven on sales to millions of people.

The fact that Tivo developed for OS X as an equal to windows sucked a lot of people like myself into the Tivo fold. If I were to have waited, I would have most definitely chosen ReplayTV. That being said, I've already cancelled service on one of my Tivos and am only keeping the lifetime unit around because its paid for. When that thing dies, I have a new outlook on Tivo the company to use in weighing my alternatives.

ZeoTiVo

05-03-2005, 04:03 PM

'Cause TiVo's never said that. I can only base thoughts on what the company tells me. ;)

What TiVo has said is that they're "working on it".

Unless TiVo expects their customers to assume they'll fail at something they're working on, TiVo is implying support is forthcoming.

fair enough - I was thinking a speculative conclusion from the lack of a timeline being available. But for someone saying they want TTG for mac now it would seem a better use of time to find and use an alternative, oh and call TiVo and let them know it hit their bottom line.

I do think the greater issue here is that TiVo has really screwed up somewhere along the line in regards to TTG on Mac. They are moving into new areas of product development and are not hitting the home runs like they did with early TiVos. That is the implicit part of my conclusion that TiVo does not know how to deliver TTG for Mac. It just goes to that old business adage of you can not be good at all things.

AnteL0pe

05-03-2005, 04:06 PM

. Why can you not just accept that and deal with the conclusion that even TiVo has no idea if they can deliver TTG for Mac but are working on it anyway because they would much prefer to release a Mac version?
I have accepted that, because they have yet to be able to produce anything. The problem I have with that is that its 100% BS that it cant be done. Of course they could do it, they are making a decision not to do it. Again, even that would be OK if they would just come out and say that is what they are doing. They would rather keep taking my money and telling me they are working on it...... Nice f'ing PR, way to run a company TiVo....

Unix_Beard

05-03-2005, 04:06 PM

It sure looks to me like TiVo is having trouble getting TTG working on the Mac platform in a manner consistent with their business plans. They clearly are concerend with continued efforts to keep enforcing a rights managed solution on windows to keep content providers from suing them or getting the FCC to rule against them. Giving the replayTV fall and that TiVo is batting .500 at the FCC these seem like real fears they must factor in. The Mac platform is no different. Why can you not just accept that and deal with the conclusion that even TiVo has no idea if they can deliver TTG for Mac but are working on it anyway because they would much prefer to release a Mac version?

You act like this a Herculean task. My god man. Oracle 10g runs on OS X. Maya runs on OS X. Every major app runs on OS X. (Of course there are exceptions like Autocad or ArcGIS). This is not rocket science.

You don't see me in the "Class Action" threads or any of that nonsense. My main concern is Tivo holding their end of the bargain. Its unfair to suck me in with the 1.x iteration of Tivo Desktop and then pull the rug out and say "Sucka!"

ZeoTiVo

05-03-2005, 04:30 PM

They would rather keep taking my money

if DVR files on the Mac were important to me I would not still be giving TiVo money.

And yes I think it is a business decision to need something with Tighter DRM than they can come up with on the Mac. But like I said with Replay TV being hurt badly by lawsuits and the FCC being an adversarial environment that is a real business decision TiVo can not take lightly.

ZeoTiVo

05-03-2005, 04:41 PM

You act like this a Herculean task. My god man. Oracle 10g runs on OS X. Maya runs on OS X. Every major app runs on OS X. (Of course there are exceptions like Autocad or ArcGIS). This is not rocket science.

You don't see me in the "Class Action" threads or any of that nonsense. My main concern is Tivo holding their end of the bargain. Its unfair to suck me in with the 1.x iteration of Tivo Desktop and then pull the rug out and say "Sucka!"

I do not think it is a just a technical issue of playing .tivo files. I agree with you that the Mac could quite easily get the files, read the MAK, decrypt the files and play the resulting MPEG stream. It would work better than the piss poor multimedia that comes with Windows XP.

That leads me to think it is a business decision of not feeling that TiVo can secure everything like they want to. I do not buy into a backroom deal with Microsoft so I conclude that it must be hard to protect the mpeg stream adn keep other apps from getting at it. I base this in part on their efforts to shut down the same kind of thing on Windows with desktop 2.1 that just came out.

The Tiger thing was probably TiVo waiting for the gold release to fix things , now we see if Tivo can get the current Mac TiVo desktop running there soon. Conclusions can be drawn from that as well but I would not expect that TiVo had desktop working with next win OS the day it came out in stores. It would be nice but not expected, I would expect it to reelase a desktop soon after though.

I would also make sure things that were important to me worked with a new OS before I upgraded to it.

dropd

05-03-2005, 04:47 PM

I would also make sure things that were important to me worked with a new OS before I upgraded to it.

That sounds exactly like what we are doing WRT TivoDesktop and Tiger. I'm not complaining that I upgraded and didn't know TD would break. I'm complaining that TiVo is (for now anyway) making me make that choice. I'm just making my voice heard.

Technically, I have already upgraded to Tiger, with full knowledge that TD was going to stop working (since I checked here and the TD homepage first). By posting about it, we (at least in a small way) raise our visibility. TiVo isn't going to support us if they think we don't care.

I've let TiVo know that if I have to choose between the tacos and the mail... I choose the mail.

But the tacos are delicious, probably the best tacos I've ever had, and I'd like to get more of them, preferably sooner than later.

Unix_Beard

05-03-2005, 05:12 PM

I would also make sure things that were important to me worked with a new OS before I upgraded to it.

I haven't complained about Tiger. I've stayed out of the more inflammatory threads. My iTunes box is in the basement. I just won't upgrade that one to Tiger. What I'm looking for is whether I will -ever- be able to upgrade that machine. If not, then I'll have to come up with other solutions. I could easily just buy an Airport Express and stream my music through it but I was sold a bill of goods last year when I bought my first Tivo.

AnteL0pe

05-03-2005, 06:36 PM

if DVR files on the Mac were important to me I would not still be giving TiVo money.

And yes I think it is a business decision to need something with Tighter DRM than they can come up with on the Mac. But like I said with Replay TV being hurt badly by lawsuits and the FCC being an adversarial environment that is a real business decision TiVo can not take lightly.
Fine then they need to come out and tell us this. Let us know that they arent working on a solution and that they have no plans to.

By stringing us along and not realy telling us anything they give us enough hope to keep paying while not producing anything. Its a horrible way to treat customers, and it isnt a way to run a business.

audioscience

05-03-2005, 08:56 PM

And by the way, there are lots of things you can't do on a PC as well. Install windows and then try rsyncing the machine through an ssh tunnel without downloading anything.

This is the one thing that I do all of the time and I hate about having a PC and makes me wish I had a Mac.

/Has no idea WTF the above means
/goes back to surfing pr0n on the Wintel machine

Unix_Beard

05-03-2005, 09:38 PM

This is the one thing that I do all of the time and I hate about having a PC and makes me wish I had a Mac.

/Has no idea WTF the above means
/goes back to surfing pr0n on the Wintel machine

Thanks for making my point. Everyone has their toolbox.

rog

05-03-2005, 10:52 PM

hargreae

05-04-2005, 03:38 AM

why does no one get that "working hard on something" does not always mean you a have a coder(s) working hard at knocking out code.

AAC support is a great example of this. "working Hard" there most likely meant TiVo was tyring ahrd to get Apple to license the fairplay tech so TiVo could use it to play encrypted AAC files. TiVo stated they wanted a play any AAC file (DRMed or not) solution. sometimes working hard happens in the negotiation stage. TiVo can not tell us Apple's side of the story as then they could never negotiate in good faith after that. Apple has a profound history of never talking about anything until after negotiations as well.

I don't recall that TiVo ever said they were working hard on playback of protected AAC files. And I completely understand that they need Apple's help to do that. But there (obviously) is no reason why they can't support unprotected AAC files. TiVo has said that they choose not to do this because the amount of users is so small. Yet days after a new version of iPhoto was released they updated TiVo Desktop to support it. Hmmm, how many people had paid the $50 for that versus the millions who have the free iTunes and have ripped their CDs in the default format?

Also, I understand that "working hard" is not a promise. The problem is that TiVo never tells you when it stops "working hard." Years after that notice, I find out on an unofficial forum that they gave up a long time ago and just never told us officially. Now the page just says AAC files are not supported. Like Tiger.

gonzotek

05-04-2005, 07:53 AM

"Now that Tiger is out of the bag, some Mac software makers say the new cat doesn't play well with others."
http://news.com.com/Apples+Tiger+makes+some+companies+growl/2100-1016_3-5694048.html?tag=nefd.top
Some of the affected companies include Microsoft and Cisco. I don't find it surprising that TiVo Desktop for Mac was broken by Tiger, considering software from major players like Microsoft also got broken by the upgrade. And Apple obviously knew they were going to break a number of things, since they made the 'no api changes from now on' promise with this release. It reassures developers that if they fix their software for Tiger, they can count on it not being broken by the next update.

ZeoTiVo

05-04-2005, 08:43 AM

I don't recall that TiVo ever said they were working hard on playback of protected AAC files. And I completely understand that they need Apple's help to do that. But there (obviously) is no reason why they can't support unprotected AAC files. TiVo has said that they choose not to do this because the amount of users is so small. Yet days after a new version of iPhoto was released they updated TiVo Desktop to support it. Hmmm, how many people had paid the $50 for that versus the millions who have the free iTunes and have ripped their CDs in the default format?

Also, I understand that "working hard" is not a promise. The problem is that TiVo never tells you when it stops "working hard." Years after that notice, I find out on an unofficial forum that they gave up a long time ago and just never told us officially. Now the page just says AAC files are not supported. Like Tiger.

in this forum TiVo spoke of working hard on support of all AAC files including protected ones. Then the real network thing happened and people asked TiVo for uppo=rotected AAC support - TiVo in this forum said it did not want to support just some AAC files and confuse customers (and result in more support calls to TiVo)

also look around this forum - if you install lame there is unofficial support for open AAC files in the desktop. TiVo gave you a back door. TiVo also knew they were working on HME that would allow 3 rd parties to do the protetcted AAC to MP3 work so the songs can stream to the TiVo. look for iSeeiTunes.

I covered why they do not say when they stop working in my post you responded to. If Tivo truly thought they could indeed deliver TTG for Mac in first part of 2006 they would have released a timeline. They have not, are they suppossed to say in december "oh BTW we stopped working on something that no one was expecting anyway"

mscottsimon

05-04-2005, 09:02 AM

I really cant think of a situation where I ever need to use windows....

Hmm.... how about to use TTG?

Ironic that you wrote that in a Mac/TTG thread. rofl

.scott

Unix_Beard

05-04-2005, 09:03 AM

Hmm.... how about to use TTG?

Ironic that you wrote that in a Mac/TTG thread. rofl

.scott

Someone didn't read the thread. :rolleyes:

AnteL0pe

05-04-2005, 09:07 AM

Hmm.... how about to use TTG?

Ironic that you wrote that in a Mac/TTG thread. rofl

.scott
Wahahahaha, well you got me there..... :p

sad05

05-05-2005, 06:05 PM

The PSP has TTG support?!
Ah! How many injustices do we have to suffer?

davezatz

05-05-2005, 06:20 PM

The PSP has TTG support?!
Ah! How many injustices do we have to suffer?

It has support the same way Mac has support. Convert the .tivo files on your PC to something useful then transfer it to a PSP or a Mac or whatever. And the support is unofficial, not provided by Tivo.

hargreae

05-05-2005, 07:21 PM

in this forum TiVo spoke of working hard on support of all AAC files including protected ones. Then the real network thing happened and people asked TiVo for uppo=rotected AAC support - TiVo in this forum said it did not want to support just some AAC files and confuse customers (and result in more support calls to TiVo)
I didn't find this forum until this January. I've had TiVo since December 2003. So I'd been waiting for TiVo to finish its "hard work" of supporting unprotected AAC files and letting us know either via the newsletter or its web site (official sources of info). But apparently they just quietly let the news drop here that they stopped working on it. As soon as they decided to stop working on it, they should have let us know. The reason they didn't? They don't want Mac users to abandon TiVo.

also look around this forum - if you install lame there is unofficial support for open AAC files in the desktop. TiVo gave you a back door.
Which no longer works with 10.4

TiVo also knew they were working on HME that would allow 3 rd parties to do the protetcted AAC to MP3 work so the songs can stream to the TiVo. look for iSeeiTunes.
iSeeiTunes does not convert protected AAC files to MP3, and it doesn't stream songs to the TiVo, so I don't think you know what you're talking about.

I covered why they do not say when they stop working in my post you responded to. If Tivo truly thought they could indeed deliver TTG for Mac in first part of 2006 they would have released a timeline. They have not, are they suppossed to say in december "oh BTW we stopped working on something that no one was expecting anyway"
If TiVo says they're "working hard," it should be true. If they stop, they need to be honest and say so. They shouldn't wait until 2006 and post some message in this forum that says 'oh, we worked hard on it for a while, but gave up about 9 months ago.'

The CEO admitted that at the rate they're working on it, it wouldn't be available for a couple of years. Well, that's going to cause some Mac folks to give up on TiVo. Since they don't want to lose customers, they lie and say his remarks weren't represented accurately. That's B.S.

bedelman

05-05-2005, 09:26 PM

hargreae -- a few corrections if you don't mind...

First of all, as far as I know TiVo never said that they were working on AAC support. There was a brief blurb a long time ago in an online Mac site (I think it was MacNN), but it never appeared elsewhere although a few sites did reference the MacNN article.

Second, it was not the CEO of TiVo. It was the CFO -- which is a world of difference in regard to area of responsibility.

chessplayer

05-06-2005, 01:18 AM

First of all, as far as I know TiVo never said that they were working on AAC support. I distinctly recall them saying they were working on AAC support. Of course, it is not TiVo's fault that Apple did not give them the ability to play protected AAC directly. I still think unprotected AAC should have gotten official support - it's even the default for iTunes importing.

Second, it was not the CEO of TiVo. It was the CFO -- which is a world of difference in regard to area of responsibility. Yes, it was the CFO, who is still in a position to know. And note that the reason the CFO stated was that it was too EXPENSIVE to do the Mac development needed, so I think it's reasonable to take him at his word in that. I don't appreciate TiVo's backpedaling attempts regarding the CFO's statements.

Kripto

05-06-2005, 02:11 AM

I'm awestruck at the lack of support from Tivo on this issue. In fact I just upgraded to Tiger to find that they haven't ported the app over yet! I mean c'mon! Smaller development houses with fewer resources are able to keep up with apple on their updates. Tiger Development releases have been out for over 6 months now! Tivo! Get off your butts!!!

:mad:

bedelman

05-06-2005, 10:16 AM

I distinctly recall them saying they were working on AAC support. Of course, it is not TiVo's fault that Apple did not give them the ability to play protected AAC directly. I still think unprotected AAC should have gotten official support - it's even the default for iTunes importing.I pushed for unprotected AAC support in a thread well over a year ago. At that time, TiVoBill indicated that they thought it would be too confusing as to why some AAC files would be able to be played and yet others would not. I disagreed, but I can see his side of it as well.

Fofer

05-06-2005, 10:26 AM

ZeoTiVo

05-06-2005, 10:29 AM

I pushed for unprotected AAC support in a thread well over a year ago. At that time, TiVoBill indicated that they thought it would be too confusing as to why some AAC files would be able to be played and yet others would not. I disagreed, but I can see his side of it as well.

yes it was those conversations and some others on here before that where one of the TiVo employees (I forget which one) said TiVo was working on protected AAC support. It seems that working on it seems to mean "in talks with the company holding license" . I distinctly remembered the many requests for unoprotected AAC file support and TiVoBIll saying it would be confusing to support a subset of a format and would generate too many support calls. He predicted someone would write a plugin for HMO that would suport them anyway.

davezatz

05-06-2005, 10:36 AM

I disagreed, but I can see his side of it as well.

I can't... as I said then I think it discounts the intelligence of Tivo customers. I think you can easily explain the distinction in documentation or with a footnote, as other companies are doing since Apple is not licensing it's DRM. If a tiny company like Roku (SoundBridge) can collaborate with Apple and get an iTunes logo on the box and offer official AAC support (non DRM), it can't be that difficut or expensve.

I also felt, and still do, it was a shortsited from a business perspective for Tivo and TIvoBIll to take the stance since we can't provide it all, we'll provide none. There's many more iTunes users than Tivo owners at this point... why not tap into them? Then again this conversion happened prior to it becoming clear Mac was taking a back seat to Windows development within Tivo. The Mac market may be smaller, but they are the type of audience Tivo wants to attract and retain: vocal supporters, affluent and willing to pay a premium over competitors.

Fofer

05-06-2005, 10:38 AM

You know, the fact that HMO still doesn't "officially" support playback of AAC files, the default format of iTunes, is quite telling.

I'm willing to bet that TiVoToGo for Mac won't *ever* see the light of day. And if/when it does, it will be long after TiVo has lost relevance.

If we don't see a Tiger-compatible version of TiVo Desktop anytime soon, and instead need to rely on Dennis Wilkinson's patch to make it work? Well then that's just downright pathetic.

Fofer

05-06-2005, 10:40 AM

I can't... as I said then I think it discounts the intelligence of Tivo customers. I think you can easily explain the distinction in documentation or with a footnote, as other companies are doing since Apple is not licensing it's DRM. If a tiny company like Roku (SoundBridge) can collaborate with Apple and get an iTunes logo on the box and offer official AAC support (non DRM), it can't be that difficut or expensve.

An even smaller company:
http://www.slimdevices.com/
supports AAC (non DRM) too.

I believe this is the software that powers Roku... it's even Open Source!

hargreae

05-06-2005, 07:22 PM

First of all, as far as I know TiVo never said that they were working on AAC support. There was a brief blurb a long time ago in an online Mac site (I think it was MacNN), but it never appeared elsewhere although a few sites did reference the MacNN article.
They never said it? It never appeared elsewhere? Hmmm, how about TiVo's customer support web site?

"We are working on supporting the AAC music format."
http://customersupport.tivo.com/knowbase/root/public/tv1161.htm

thehand

05-06-2005, 07:59 PM

you guys are killing TIVO. keep it up

thehand

05-06-2005, 08:01 PM

TIVO is for pussies

TheSlyBear

05-06-2005, 08:06 PM

you guys are killing TIVO. keep it up

Sad as it may be, it's TiVo that is killing TiVo.

Jeffsters

05-06-2005, 09:21 PM

If you are "working on support ... on the Mac platform", why is there no schedule for release? Not even a tentative schedule. Are we going to see this release in 2005? 2006? 2007?

Until Tivo commits to a date (even if it's only tentative), TivoToGo for Mac is nothing but Vaporware. Tivo would not be the first company to say they are working a version of their product for the Mac and never deliver that product.

Bottom line for me is, if TivoToGo for Mac was a priority for Tivo, there would be a release schedule.

Agreed. You don't devote engineering resources to something without a spec and a damn schedule. Now you do let an engineer or two look into the possibility and draft a document outlining challenges and such without a schedule. I guess you can call that "working on it" but I think it's more "we're exploring...". IMHO! :(

Jeffsters

05-06-2005, 09:28 PM

It is certainly possible that we will support unencrypted AAC files at some point, but I don't know of any plans to do that at this time since the format is not all that popular outside of iTunes world. A third party person/company could also develop a plug-in for TiVo Desktop to play unencrypted AAC files (as they have done with WMA) but there doesn't seem to be much interest in that area.

OMG! Ok..help me here. Can you imagine Tivo saying this if Microsoft had the #1 music store and jukebox software? You're looking for a 3rd party to add support for the #1 jukebox software program? Help me out here...I am really trying to understand. God I pray more each day Apple roles their own cross-platform PVR and does to you what they have done to REAL, hell I'd be happy if Microsoft did! At they're honest in their intentions! You guys are becoming the Quark of the PVR space. Go look what's happening to them and take a lesson before it's too late!

Jeffsters

05-06-2005, 09:33 PM

Well, I am an engineer so maybe I will look into the openings. As an engineer though, I've never seen a project without a schedule ...

Ditto! I work at a top 5 (makes it less specific..hehehe) software company and I tooo have NEVER heard of a project without a schedule. Think for a minute! How is a project a "project" without milestones and dates? I give up! Hey...we have openings BTW! ;-)

Jeffsters

05-06-2005, 09:36 PM

I have a iBook that I would love to be able to use TiVoToGo on, but I have to be patient for now.

Aww....yes! When all else fails use the old, "I have a Mac at home..." statement. That works! ;-)

schalliol

05-07-2005, 12:09 AM

tonyf3

05-07-2005, 12:35 PM

They never said it? It never appeared elsewhere? Hmmm, how about TiVo's customer support web site?

"We are working on supporting the AAC music format."
http://customersupport.tivo.com/knowbase/root/public/tv1161.htm

They're all stalling. Read the link.

tonyf3

05-07-2005, 12:37 PM

With 35 pages, I thought I'd just add my name to the list of Mac users that really want TiVoToGo. I've even gotten 7 referrals in the formal system with several before it started. I'm getting some "bad PR" with the Mac users of the bunch over this.

Spoke with a Tech support rep Monday on an unrelated issue. He said he was a Mac user too and said he was waiting as well. He said they were working on it. For what it's worth.

tonyf3

05-07-2005, 12:56 PM

Got a good look at Eye TV this week. Buddy of mine had a the box in his office. My next purchase for having my shows on my laptop for viewing and burning. Eye TV. I also have a Canopus ADC-55 box. My next order for basic DVR viewing will be my Cable company's setop box for $9.95. I'm not buying, or supporting another damn thing from this floundering company until ALL MAC SUPPORT ISSUES ARE RESOLVED! Have a nice day TiVo.

mattman

05-07-2005, 01:35 PM

tonyf3

05-11-2005, 04:13 PM

Still waiting for TiVo togo for Mac: Month 5, Day 128. How's the hard work coming?? anyone,...anyone....Bueller...Bill.?

ZeoTiVo

05-11-2005, 04:30 PM

Still waiting for TiVo togo for Mac: Month 5, Day 128. How's the hard work coming?? anyone,...anyone....Bueller...Bill.?

I bet the odds are greater for the CFO to get released before TTG for Mac is released :eek:

Fofer

05-11-2005, 04:49 PM

Until Tivo Desktop HMO under Tiger gets officially fixed, I think we can safely say TTG ain't going anywhere either...

bedelman

05-11-2005, 04:51 PM

Until Tivo Desktop HMO under Tiger gets officially fixed, I think we can safely say TTG ain't going anywhere either...Not to mention the whole Rendezvous/Bonjour doesn't seem to work with USB 2.0 adapters thing...

sad05

05-11-2005, 05:53 PM

I think the EyeTV product has a lot to recommend it. My only problem is that I can't use them with my digital cable system because the stream is encrypted. Until that problem can be solved I guess they are off my radar.

Awww crap. Is that right? I was looking at EyeTV as a replacement too ... but I have digital cable. Are there specs on EyeTVs site detailing what it will and won't work with?

Quevar

05-11-2005, 06:23 PM

I don't know how well they listen, but give them suggestions.

research{dot}tivo{dot}com/suggestions/ (sorry, can't post links yet)

I just told them that I want TTG on the Mac (at least a timeframe) and AAC support. The more of us that fill it out, the better the chance of them listening. I don't know how long this suggestion page has been up, but I just found it today.

rog

05-11-2005, 08:43 PM

I don't know how well they listen, but give them suggestions.

research{dot}tivo{dot}com/suggestions/ (sorry, can't post links yet)

Good idea!

I think this page might be new?

I like the feature list at the end. I checked off iTunes/AAC support, and it made it point to ask (politely) for better Mac support in all three of the comment areas. I specifically mentioned the lack of even HMO support with Tiger.

Here's the link:

http://research.tivo.com/suggestions/

donsullivan

05-11-2005, 09:31 PM

Has anybony seen any committment at all from TiVo that they are actually going to update TiVo Desktop to support Tiger? The web site acknowledges that it doesn't work, but I can't seem to find anything that even suggests that they are 'working on it' much less makes a committment as to when it might be available.

Every indication from TiVo is that we are at the end of Mac support. Everything has stopped working and ther is no committment that it is going to be fixed.

Poogie

05-11-2005, 09:45 PM

Has anybony seen any committment at all from TiVo that they are actually going to update TiVo Desktop to support Tiger?

I called TiVo Customer Support and was told they were working on it, but had no timeline. So the moral of the story is, don't hold your breath!

AnteL0pe

05-12-2005, 10:50 AM

Not to mention the whole Rendezvous/Bonjour doesn't seem to work with USB 2.0 adapters thing...
My iBook, with Tiger on it, is communicating with my TiVo which is using a Linksys USB 2.0 adapter. I'll be upgrading my DP 1GHz G4 next week, we'll see if it continues to work....

bedelman

05-12-2005, 11:14 AM

My iBook, with Tiger on it, is communicating with my TiVo which is using a Linksys USB 2.0 adapter. I'll be upgrading my DP 1GHz G4 next week, we'll see if it continues to work....Which model TiVo do you have? I've been able to reproduce this with TiVo Desktop 1.9.1 on three different DVR models (Pioneer - 275 series, Series 2 - 240 series, Series 2 - 540 series). If you enable the "Bonjour" menu in the bookmarks bar in Safari, are you able to see your TiVo on the pull-down list?

JavaHMO which doesn't use Bonjour/Rendezvous for discovery, works without a problem

Bigg

05-12-2005, 11:20 AM

You people are driving me nuts. Most everyting in this thread is a non-issue. Mac users are so small a group (I have XP and OSX) that it is just not a big deal. You bought your TiVo as DVR NOT a network device. Next it sucks as a music player and if thats all you can do for a music player, iTunes converts to MP3 like the rest of the world, and fairplay allows burns that can be ripped. Oh, and you can decrypt TTG shows with a PC or use VPC, which any sane person needs anyways, as there are a lot of programs that plain don't run on Macs, oh and if you can't deal with the world standard operating system (yes it sucks deal with it), get a DVD burner, burn the stuff over analog and then rip the DMGs to your HDD, or if you have power, just stinking play it off of the disk.

Fofer

05-12-2005, 11:22 AM

Ladies and gentlemen, "the world according to Bigg."

:rolleyes:

bedelman

05-12-2005, 11:27 AM

You people are driving me nuts...Sounds like an "expert" opinion to me. The kind of expert that already knows everything and is unwilling or sees no point in learning about anything new.

Definition of "expert" -- pronounced as "Ex-Spurt"
An "ex" is something that had been -- example - ex-student is a former student
A "spurt" is a small drip

Thereby an "expert" is a former small drip

sad05

05-12-2005, 11:31 AM

You people are driving me nuts. Oh, and you can decrypt TTG shows with a PC or use VPC, which any sane person needs anyways, as there are a lot of programs that plain don't run on Macs, oh and if you can't deal with the world standard operating system (yes it sucks deal with it), get a DVD burner, burn the stuff over analog and then rip the DMGs to your HDD, or if you have power, just stinking play it off of the disk.

So your suggestions for Mac user who already own a system is spend more money to get the same functionality?

1) Buy a PC - $500+
2) Buy Virtual PC - $250
3) Buy a DVD burner - $300 +

arc6th

05-12-2005, 11:42 AM

Bigg, you're just gonna have to suck on it and like it.

We Mac users must now re-evaluate TiVo's offerings just as we evaluate every other company that only manufactures items that can communicate Windoze OS computers. This is a process we do all the time with gadgets - music players, mobile phones, etc. "Yeah, they work with Windoze, but do they work with Macs easily? ...with extra work? ...at all?" Often we choose purchase an object to use simply as it's main purpose without ever being able to utilize the extra features Windoze-users have.

We haven't had to do that with TiVo's Series 2 DVR, obviously, as everything had been released for the Mac, eventually. The CFO's comments and the subsequent, standard corporate non-retraction retraction leads us to believe it is very possible TiVo isn't working very hard at solutions for Apple's OS 10.4 and/or TTG, if at all (but I really don't want to think they're lying). That said, many of us would still select TiVo's box as our DVR. Many others, whose priorities are the music, photos or portability, will obviously be required to find other suppliers.

Until TiVo, Inc. states definitively they will not be able to, or choose not to, support the Mac, though, we will continue to remind them we are here, not happy, but hopeful.

Until the situation is resolved one way or another, you might consider ignoring the Mac subjects.

dropd

05-12-2005, 12:49 PM

Question for the board: am i allowed to call THIS guy a troll?

If you don't care about mac stuff, don't read the mac threads. it's not hard.

You people are driving me nuts. Most everyting in this thread is a non-issue. Mac users are so small a group (I have XP and OSX) that it is just not a big deal. You bought your TiVo as DVR NOT a network device. Next it sucks as a music player and if thats all you can do for a music player, iTunes converts to MP3 like the rest of the world, and fairplay allows burns that can be ripped. Oh, and you can decrypt TTG shows with a PC or use VPC, which any sane person needs anyways, as there are a lot of programs that plain don't run on Macs, oh and if you can't deal with the world standard operating system (yes it sucks deal with it), get a DVD burner, burn the stuff over analog and then rip the DMGs to your HDD, or if you have power, just stinking play it off of the disk.

Justin Thyme

05-12-2005, 12:58 PM

AnteL0pe

05-12-2005, 01:13 PM

No. If you think that a person or a group of people are But maybe BigG and I are in the minority.
Could be. My wife and I use the TiVO to display images all the time, easily a couple times a month. I have an AirPort Express running into my stereo, and there are advantages to using the iTunes interface over the TiVo interface, but honestly it usually comes down to which ever i see first / can reach easiest, the TiVo remote or the closest laptop....

Oh, and i think calling that guy a troll is legit...

ZeoTiVo

05-12-2005, 01:15 PM

Question for the board: am i allowed to call THIS guy a troll?

If you don't care about mac stuff, don't read the mac threads. it's not hard.

well he is not a troll be definition becasue he did not point out any one user, merely stated his opinion and moved on. BUt while I jumped on posters who said TiVo promised TTG for MAc ans thus lied (which they did not) I found his solutions weird adn saw no one say that now they can not play music from their Mac or see photos etc all becasue TiVo has totally locked it down.

what I read was Mac users upset becasue they can not use the TiVo for these things coupled with their Mac only. His solutions did not address that problem very well. :rolleyes:

Unix_Beard

05-12-2005, 01:29 PM

You bought your TiVo as DVR NOT a network device.

I did? Could have fooled me. In fact, I explicitly had ethernet jacks installed in my new house in every location I planned on putting a TV.

a PC or use VPC, which any sane person needs anyways, as there are a lot of programs that plain don't run on Macs.

I've been working in IT for 15 years. I have no need for a PC. In fact, a PC would be useless to me in my type of work (unless I installed Linux on it.)

oh and if you can't deal with the world standard operating system (yes it sucks deal with it), get a DVD burner, burn the stuff over analog and then rip the DMGs to your HDD, or if you have power, just stinking play it off of the disk.

Wow. We never thought of those things! :eek:

Unix_Beard

05-12-2005, 01:34 PM

No. If you think that a person or a group of people are making irrational notes, just ignore them or report them to a moderator.

I prefer the ignore route, except I sometimes break my own rules.

I happen to agree with Bigg that using a DVR- any dvr as a music player sucks. I also don't use it as a photo player.

It would be ironic if you went to all this bother and found you never really used the feature. I think most people will find themselves in that boat. But maybe BigG and I are in the minority.

Actually, your use or impression of Tivo's utility has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with me. If you prefer to play CDs, then so be it. I find using a music server to be the only viable solution in my house. I have 9,000 songs on the server. I have ethernet in every room of the house. I control and listen to the server either by a Tivo or a computer. I don't want a computer in my living room or my bedroom. I don't want to cart CDs around the house. I don't expect YOU to live your life the way I live my own and I don't give a rat's ass about your opinion of a DVR as music appliance. (I would if thats what this thread is about. But as usual, you are just threadcrapping.)

And how the hell do you know if I will enjoy TTG? I KNOW I will because all I want to do with it is burn musical performances to DVD. Thats it. I want to be able to edit them together too.

Justin Thyme

05-12-2005, 04:01 PM

I have 9,000 songs on the server. I have ethernet in every room of the house. ...

Me too. (actually a few more than 9000). It used to be more but I went on a deleting mission one weekend to nuke the lame tracks I had.

I don't want a computer in my living room or my bedroom. I don't want to cart CDs around the house. I don't expect YOU to live your life the way I live my own ...

Right. I have had an iPod with a 40GB drive for must be two years now and I prefer it on the altec lansing thing. It is more convenient than turning on the TV and looking for stuff in folders. I have a cradle in the bedroom too and just carry it with me. I don't have to have a TV set everywhere I may be working in the house. That might change if Homeplug AV or similar powerline network scheme would be supported by Tivo and CE vendors so I could play or view anything anywhere that had a power plug.

Besides, The Tivo UI sucks for finding music and pictures among tens of thousands of files, but that is my opinion. I know a lot of people like it though. Whatever floats your boat.

I agree TTG is important to want to have for other reasons. And if Tivo had unlimited resources, I would think it would be a nice idea to provide it to both Mac and Linux users.

But they don't and I agree with those who feel that Tivo has much much higher priority items to attend to than this.

Mac support would be nice.

Survival is nice too.

I'd give up TTG if it meant Tivo's survival. Could happen too- if Tivo lost a court case on it. And I wouldn't whine about it, I'd just hack my box and put tivowebplus on it.

End of story.

Unix_Beard

05-12-2005, 04:14 PM

I agree that the Tivo interface for large libraries sucks. But I find it much more satisfying than carrying an iPod around with me. Some people don't like turning on the TV. It doesn't bother me.

Anyway, the point is that streaming iTunes throughout my house was almost as important to me as the DVR functionality when I purchased my first one. (I don't use the Photo thing because you really need to make Albums in iPhoto for it to be useful - I'm too lazy.) If Tivo ends up not meeting my needs, I'll just plug another box into the ethernet jack. No big loss except that another formerly cool company fizzled. Here's hoping someone buys them except Microsoft.

AnteL0pe

05-12-2005, 05:25 PM

I meticulously organize my photos and music. Have all the music in playlists by album as well as hundreds of other playlists, so it isnt an issues to find the music i want, though the interface could be a LOT better.

dropd

05-12-2005, 06:52 PM

rog

05-12-2005, 07:37 PM

For the record, I use(d) the TiVo HMO mp3 player almost every day until Tiger came out.

Now I only use my airport express.

Me too, except I still use the TiVo HMO player! I am forced to use Dennis and iDriveX's hacks because the TiVo engineers can't seem to get their ***** together.

Give me a break TiVo. If your users can fix this on their own, and you can't do the same after having access to the development builds for almost a year... it's just sad. I don't care what the "buy a PC" trolls think. This CAN BE FIXED. FIX IT.

:down: :down: :down:

TheSlyBear

05-12-2005, 07:52 PM

a PC or use VPC, which any sane person needs anyways, as there are a lot of programs that plain don't run on Macs

I am quite sane and I have no need for a PC or VPC. Ever. I can think of no program that I need or want that doesn't run on OS X.

Small minds think in small ways.

Weaselboy

05-12-2005, 09:09 PM

davezatz

05-12-2005, 09:23 PM

I am quite sane and I have no need for a PC or VPC. Ever. I can think of no program that I need or want that doesn't run on OS X.I wonder if you represent a majority or minority of Mac users. My household goes both ways... We have both Mac and PCs and we couldn't dump the PCs if we wanted (which we don't).

Regardless, the issue remains that Tivo used to support both the Mac and Windows environments equally and that no longer holds true. If all the Mac users migrated to ReplayTV they might change their stance on this lower priority of Mac development, but I think most of us will tolerate it. Tivo's got new sources of revenue anyhow with expanded advertising and cable deals (Comcast and those yet to come).

Unix_Beard

05-12-2005, 11:13 PM

I wonder if you represent a majority or minority of Mac users. My household goes both ways... We have both Mac and PCs and we couldn't dump the PCs if we wanted (which we don't).

Regardless, the issue remains that Tivo used to support both the Mac and Windows environments equally and that no longer holds true. If all the Mac users migrated to ReplayTV they might change their stance on this lower priority of Mac development, but I think most of us will tolerate it. Tivo's got new sources of revenue anyhow with expanded advertising and cable deals (Comcast and those yet to come).

I'm with bootedbear. I have absolutely no need for a Windows machine. The only thing the Mac doesn't have is games. I'm a Nintendo guy anyhow. :) My daughter has an iMac, my wife and I both have Powerbooks, and my iTunes server is an eMac. My exposure to Windows at work is enough! Blech.

The only way this effects me as a Tivo consumer is I won't buy another one. I have a lifetime unit and deactivated my monthly unit. I'll eventually go with an HD DVR from my cable company. The only reason I haven't already is because HD hasn't been rolled out to my area yet.

Justin Thyme

05-13-2005, 12:06 AM

As a workaround, have any Mac users here looked into Monte'ing their Tivos and installing Tivowebplus and MFS_FTP or TyTools?

Or doing the same via PTVUpgrade if you have DirectTV?

rog

05-13-2005, 12:26 AM

As a workaround, have any Mac users here looked into Monte'ing their Tivos and installing Tivowebplus and MFS_FTP or TyTools?

Or doing the same via PTVUpgrade if you have DirectTV?

I'm not willing to socket the PROM on my relatively new 540 box -- at the risk of permanently damaging the motherboard -- just to obtain the full TiVoToGo functionality available for Windows machines. But that's just me...

I'm changing the subject a bit now. I just noticed that TiVoDesktop 1.9 (hacked through Dennis's intructions to work with Tiger) is using LAME to convert any WAV files in my iTunes library on the fly.

Perhaps this isn't news to anyone since Dennis pointed out you could do this with unprotected AAC files a while back. But I just thought I'd share -- LAME will convert WAV files for the TiVo HMO player.

I noticed my CPU was throttling when my playlist hit a WAV file. 'top' reported that lame and a process called "SoundConvert" were taking up around 60% of the CPU.

Justin Thyme

05-13-2005, 01:36 AM

I'm not willing to socket the PROM on my relatively new 540 box -- at the risk of permanently damaging the motherboard -- .

I can understand that. But if you can pick up a Series 2.0 for $70 and sell the 540 for about the same, then you are only out the shipping charges. Then you wouldn't have to socket anything.

Just a thought on a different way to get from point A to point B. But certainly, it wouldn't deliver you TTG anyway. TTG comes with a DRM encryption scheme that makes editing the commercials out extremely slow. Oh, and you would miss the joys of Codec incompatibilities too.

TheSlyBear

05-13-2005, 01:50 AM

I wonder if you represent a majority or minority of Mac users.

I really have no way of knowing regarding the Mac community in general, but in my own circle of other Mac users of my aquaintance, not a one has a PC in addition to their Macs.

Seriously, I can't see why anyone would insist that I need a PC. In addition to the usual e-mail and surfing, I use my Macs for video editing, Java development, desktop publishing, web development and web serving, word processing, slide presentations, database hosting, source control hosting, Quake3 and Unreal Tournament.

What's missing that I need to saddle myself with a PC? The whole reason I switched three years ago is I wanted to spend my time on my computer doing the things I want to do rather than futzing about with trying to keep it running.

TiVoToGo is hardly enough incentive to make me want to get into that boat again.

rog

05-13-2005, 03:56 AM

I really have no way of knowing regarding the Mac community in general, but in my own circle of other Mac users of my aquaintance, not a one has a PC in addition to their Macs.

Seriously, I can't see why anyone would insist that I need a PC. In addition to the usual e-mail and surfing, I use my Macs for video editing, Java development, desktop publishing, web development and web serving, word processing, slide presentations, database hosting, source control hosting, Quake3 and Unreal Tournament.

What's missing that I need to saddle myself with a PC? The whole reason I switched three years ago is I wanted to spend my time on my computer doing the things I want to do rather than futzing about with trying to keep it running.

TiVoToGo is hardly enough incentive to make me want to get into that boat again.

Have you ever had to deal with a hosted MS Access database? How do you deal with that on a Mac?

I'm nit-picking, but I'm trying to make a point.

You have to admit there are a few areas where PC's still have an advantage, and vice versa. The gap between Macs and PC's is narrowing every day, but it still exists. Otherwise, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I'm playing Devil's Advocate here. I still think that TiVo must fix at least the basic HMO functionality of TiVoDesktop for Tiger.

I'd beg for full TTG functionality, but I don't think we're going to get it. :(

Unix_Beard

05-13-2005, 08:48 AM

Have you ever had to deal with a hosted MS Access database? How do you deal with that on a Mac?

I'm nit-picking, but I'm trying to make a point.

You have to admit there are a few areas where PC's still have an advantage, and vice versa. The gap between Macs and PC's is narrowing every day, but it still exists. Otherwise, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I'm playing Devil's Advocate here. I still think that TiVo must fix at least the basic HMO functionality of TiVoDesktop for Tiger.

I'd beg for full TTG functionality, but I don't think we're going to get it. :(

Are you suggesting "Access" is an advantage? Access is a mess. As an organization, we choose Filemaker Pro as our desktop database. You can make a fully functional database in 1/5 of the time it would take in Access. If I were to get a Windows machine, I'd have to download and install just about every tool I use. openssh, rsync, apache, perl, python, ftp, etc. I install Tiger and I have it all. I still can't get over the fact you can't remotely login to a Windows box using ssh. I'm not the normal user, I know, but the statement that I need a Windows machine is completely erroneous!

The only reason we are having this conversation is because Windows is the predominant standard just as VHS was over Beta. Which is better is not part of the discussion. The masses prefer cheap ugly boxes riddled with security issues for one reason - COST. Even THAT isn't really an issue anymore. People have just drank the koolaid and listened to their neighbor's uninformed advice.

hammer32

05-13-2005, 12:53 PM

I called TiVo Customer Support and was told they were working on it, but had no timeline. So the moral of the story is, don't hold your breath!

When we called to cancel service on our series 2 (last week) the guy was very understanding and said he had three other cancelations from Mac users that day.

sad05

05-13-2005, 12:58 PM

I really have no way of knowing regarding the Mac community in general, but in my own circle of other Mac users of my aquaintance, not a one has a PC in addition to their Macs.

TiVoToGo is hardly enough incentive to make me want to get into that boat again.

I'm with you.

I only own and work with Macs. There is no reason for me to own a Windows machine. And Tivo shutting us out is certainly not enough of a reason for me to go down that path.

TheSlyBear

05-13-2005, 07:26 PM

Have you ever had to deal with a hosted MS Access database?

You're joking right? Why would I want to use a toy database like Access when I can use PostgreSQL or MySQL (and for FREE I might add) or any of the other industrial-strength databases that run on the Mac?

My point, which you seem to have missed, is that there is no genre of software in which I cannot get a program that does what I need for the Mac. Yes, there are certain titles, like Access, that are not available, but I don't need a specific title -- I need something that meets my requirements.

Your choice of Access to make your point was unfortunate since it such a joke compared to competing systems in its category.

TheSlyBear

05-13-2005, 07:28 PM

I only own and work with Macs.

I envy you on the work front. I have to deal with XP at work.

Justin Thyme

05-13-2005, 07:49 PM

Not to change the subject too radically, but about TTG for macs,

If no one has bothered to look into it in any depth, does anyone know of any sites or notes that discuss mac users employing TivoWebPlus or other mod's to get TTG functionality?

I have mac users asking me questions about it and I don't know. It seems odd that this thread would not have any substantive discussion of workarounds after 736 notes. Perhaps there is some constructive advice that can be offered on practical solutions.

Fofer

05-13-2005, 07:53 PM

Not to change the subject too radically, but about TTG for macs,

If no one has bothered to look into it in any depth, does anyone know of any sites or notes that discuss mac users employing TivoWebPlus or other mod's to get TTG functionality?

As long as you can extract the native .ty files, using the standard techniques we can't discuss here, then you can use mplayer to play them back.

rog

05-13-2005, 07:55 PM

bootedbear: no, I wasn't joking. Perhaps I did miss your point though. But you missed mine:

You have to admit there are a few areas where PC's still have an advantage, and vice versa.

Notice my added emphasis -- it works both ways. Any sane person can understand that certain tools have advantages in certain situations.

You're changing the argument a bit by saying "there is no genre of software" that isn't available on the Mac. If you're talking in vague generalities like that, then of course you're right.

All I'm saying is, there are certain situations where a Windows machine (or a Mac, or a Linux box) is the ideal tool for the job.

I picked Access because it is a common db platform for hosting web services -- particularly for companies on MS platforms that cannot afford (or choose not to purchase) MS SQL.

Personally, I'd go with MySQL any day. I feel silly arguing over this with you guys because in the end, I'm typing this on my iBook, wishing TiVo would support the Mac platform!

I got off on a tangential, pointless argument here, because that's what I like to do. My girlfriend doesn't put up with my constant role as devil's advocate as well as you all. :D

Justin Thyme

05-13-2005, 08:13 PM

As long as you can extract the native .ty files, using the standard techniques we can't discuss here, then you can use mplayer to play them back.

Thanks, but we don't have to mention any forbidden stuff. Once you get TivoWebPlus the rest is all simple endgame.

The part I don't understand is getting the mod's onto the Tivo Drive if you don't have a mac. We all know that site where this is discussed. But most of these instructions as you know involve a PC rebooted as a linux box. I have heard you can run the commands using terminal for linux, but I would suspect that OSX might object to you mucking with a volume in the manner that the mod's require.

In any case I don't see a thread there or any site on the web for that matter that says, right- you want the TTG features, just do steps 1 through 33 and you are done. You could tell people yah here is a site with 10,000 uber geek notes- figure it out for yourself the answer is there, but it is as good as telling them nothing.

donsullivan

05-13-2005, 10:09 PM

When we called to cancel service on our series 2 (last week) the guy was very understanding and said he had three other cancelations from Mac users that day.

This is the part that I think troubles me most for the future of TiVo. Regardless of any allegiance or preference one might have to a platform, TiVo has just plain handled these two issues very, very badly. How many companies have learned over the years that if you are not honest with your customers, they will not be your customers for long.

I don't even have to like the answer, but if they have decided to abandon support for the Mac platform than just have the respect for your customers (especially those who bought into the concept from the beginning in 99) to be honest with them about it. It was bad enough when we were left dangling with no real committment on TTG but now that there is absolutely no committment to even continue support for OS X starting with Tiger, the least they could do is just come out and say it.

It is just horribly bad business practice to decide it is acceptable for customers to loose functionality and make no committment whether you even intend to fix it EVER. If they've decided they no longer want to make this investment to support OS X, than stop making any other representations to your customers, and just tell them that you are ending support for the platform. They would not be the first to make such a decision, but at least the rest had the business sense to just come out and say it.

Justin Thyme

05-15-2005, 12:12 AM

I just don't get it. They say on their website "We are currently working on ways to enable playback on Apple Macintosh computers."

You don't like how long it is taking. You don't like that you don't have a date.

Well, I have a DVD writer Tivo, it is still sitting around without any TTG support. I have been told the same thing, that they are working on it. I also don't have a date.

Maybe there were fewer people in my boat so I didn't get the support first. I don't feel like I'm being treated like a second class citizen or compare my situation to that of Jewish people in pre Hitler Europe and some have done. I don't think that there is any emotional favoritism of one platform over another. If there were, we have only to observe that Tivo's management chose linux and Tivo's engineers are all Linux guys yet Tivo has not said they are even working on TTG for Linux.

So ok we see progress. Apparently my group is next because now they are at least are saying "summer". Maybe your group is third. Maybe my group is ahead of yours because it is a Tivo Branded Unit or there are more of us than mac users. Maybe it is because we don't complain so bitterly. Who knows. More likely the delay has something to do with the legal or technical issues of using a different DRM encoding mechanism, or using the one they have in 7.1 on a Mac platform. But who knows.

Apple and Microsoft give dates, but they never meet their schedules so I don't really know what a date gets you.

dropd

05-15-2005, 01:05 AM

Apple and Microsoft give dates, but they never meet their schedules so I don't really know what a date gets you.

half right.

when tiger was announced, the timeframe given was "first half of 2005". at the time, people widely assumed they'd ship on or around the last day of june.

turns out, they made it 2 months early. pretty nice.

longhorn, on the other hand...

Justin Thyme

05-15-2005, 01:38 AM

No software company is immune. Nasa is not immune. It is a generic problem. The strategy of many organizations including Nasa and possibly Tivo is to not set fixed dates. Correct me if I am wrong, but I do not believe that Apple ever had an official release date for Tiger.

I think it is wise.

Lon

05-15-2005, 01:51 AM

No software company is immune. Nasa is not immune. It is a generic problem. The strategy of many organizations including Nasa and possibly Tivo is to not set fixed dates.

I think it is wise.
Absolutely amazing ;)

This is not a case of slipping shipping dates.

This is a case of no date set.

Since when has NASA ever (EVER) not set a date?

Wow!

Justin Thyme

05-15-2005, 02:13 AM

Absolutely amazing ;)
...Since when has NASA ever (EVER) not set a date?

Wow!
Huh?

Maybe you have been asleep the last few years or you haven't been paying attention to the process for returning the Shuttle to space. Post Challenger, the Nasa mantra has been- "We will no longer be schedule driven. No fixed date. We will fly when we are ready."

Apple didn't set a date either. Up until a few weeks ago, Tivo DVD recorder folks didn't even have a timeframe like Apple's "1st Q 2005". Yet it is not a fixed date- only "sometime this summer" we will have TTG support.

Tivo has said they are working on the problem. Folks eager for the latest and greatest don't like the fact that Tivo refuses to get specific, and spend a lot of unproductive effort at reading some dark meanings into that.

Meanwhile, I have heard nothing about references to sites that give Mac users a simple to follow DIY guide on how to mod a Series 2 so you can get all the features of TTG. There are instructions if you own a PC, but not any that I know of for how to do it if you only own Macs.

rog

05-15-2005, 02:43 AM

Meanwhile, I have heard nothing about references to sites that give Mac users a simple to follow DIY guide on how to mod a Series 2 so you can get all the features of TTG. There are instructions if you own a PC, but not any that I know of for how to do it if you only own Macs.

People sophisticated enough to extract unencrypted video of their TiVo don't need a step by step reference guide... furthermore, that has nothing to do with this thread. Wrong audience.

We've already talked about why most of us Mac users with modern TiVo's are stuck (socketing the PROM, etc.). Your only alternative left was to "pick up an [older] Series 2 for $70 and sell the 540". That's a crappy solution and you know it.

The *only* other solution right now is to use a PC for the mid step of conversion to MPEG. And that is no good for people with no PC!

All we are asking for is for TiVo to step up and at least be honest about where they are with Mac support. There have been no consistent answers.

Justin Thyme

05-15-2005, 05:18 AM

People sophisticated enough to extract unencrypted video of their TiVo don't need a step by step reference guide... furthermore, that has nothing to do with this thread. Wrong audience.

No, you don't get it.

I have Mac users asking me via PM how to do it because they can't get any answers from this web site. There are mac users who are simply interested in solving their problem about how to get TTG features.

The title of this thread is "Mac Users lack TivoToGo support. It seems to me that describing practical steps to deal with that situation are germaine to the discussion. Mac Users can get TTG features but you would rather that no one hear about that, suggesting it is off topic.

There are many sets of Mac users. Only until recently was it necessary to socket a tivo to perform these mods. That leaves a heck of a lot of Tivos that can get TTG features. And what about the 2/3 of TIvo users who have DTivo's? The people affected by your objection are in the extreme minority. What is troubling is that you know that and yet repeat this minor point as if it had any bearing on the vast majority of cases.

I understand your feeling that many people simply won't want to go to the trouble of modding their system. But it is unfair to write everyone off, and not even bother to throw them a line. I am not current on Macs anymore. You guys are. How about lending a hand? Your statement that anyone needing instructions would not be the kind of person who could carry them out begs the question. People have to start somewhere. If not at the beginning with recipes and instructions, then where?

If you don't know the answer, then fine, you need not respond. But it is mistaken to think that seeking the answer about workarounds is not a constructive use of one's time.

rog

05-15-2005, 06:27 AM

No, you don't get it.

I have Mac users asking me via PM how to do it because they can't get any answers from this web site. There are mac users who are simply interested in solving their problem about how to get TTG features.

The title of this thread is "Mac Users lack TivoToGo support. It seems to me that describing practical steps to deal with that situation are germaine to the discussion. Mac Users can get TTG features but you would rather that no one hear about that, suggesting it is off topic.

There are many sets of Mac users. Only until recently was it necessary to socket a tivo to perform these mods. That leaves a heck of a lot of Tivos that can get TTG features. And what about the 2/3 of TIvo users who have DTivo's? The people affected by your objection are in the extreme minority. What is troubling is that you know that and yet repeat this minor point as if it had any bearing on the vast majority of cases.

I understand your feeling that many people simply won't want to go to the trouble of modding their system. But it is unfair to write everyone off, and not even bother to throw them a line. I am not current on Macs anymore. You guys are. How about lending a hand? Your statement that anyone needing instructions would not be the kind of person who could carry them out begs the question. People have to start somewhere. If not at the beginning with recipes and instructions, then where?

If you don't know the answer, then fine, you need not respond. But it is mistaken to think that seeking the answer about workarounds is not a constructive use of one's time.

I hear what you are saying, and I felt the same way you do now when I made my first post in this thread long ago. But you aren't bringing anything new to the table, as you seem to think you are. The fact still remains, there are only two ways for a Mac user to get "TTG features":

1) Use a PC for the middle step of MPEG conversion.
2) Hack the TiVo (if possible), extract unencrypted video, and transfer to Mac (if possible).

Number 1 doesn't work for those without a PC. Number 2 may or may not work for those without a PC, and in any case, it is only desirable for a relatively small audience.

I'll grant there is some benefit if you can help savvy Mac users with step 2. Go for it.

All I'm saying is, these aren't new solutions you're offering, they are CRAPPY work-arounds. What we really need, and what I think this thread is aimed at, is for TiVo to step up and give us an honest timeline for TRUE Mac/TiVoToGo integration.

tonyf3

05-15-2005, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by rog: What we really need, and what I think this thread is aimed at, is for TiVo to step up and give us an honest timeline for TRUE Mac/TiVoToGo integration.

Exactly! thank you ROG. That's been the point since I started this thread.

Somethings TiVo could have done better, then we would have no ax to grind.
1. Better communication about Mac development.
2. Announce before the Jan. 05 release, that Mac support would be coming in Q_?
3. If they had no idea because of Legal, Financial, or Support from Apple. Then just say so, and everyone would shut up.
4. Don't blow off your users issues or ignore them. It creates bad feelings about your company your products, incites rebellion, anarchy etc.